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Newton_14
05-12-2017, 12:33 PM
It is official. I will close the other thread. Discuss here.

arnie
05-12-2017, 12:36 PM
It is official. I will close the other thread. Discuss here.
30th pick to Utah if he's available. Fairly obvious pick.

GGLC
05-12-2017, 12:39 PM
Profoundly disappointing. My engagement in Duke basketball slips ever further.

(While down the road they win a title with a senior who was a top-10 recruit, a junior NPOY candidate who is returning for his senior season, and a junior top-15 recruit who is returning for his senior season. Karma? What karma?)

OldPhiKap
05-12-2017, 12:40 PM
Best of luck, Frank!

Troublemaker
05-12-2017, 12:43 PM
GoDuke press release (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22724&SPID=1845&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=211593829)

“Frank has a bright future ahead of him,” Krzyzewski said. “His combination of athleticism and fearlessness makes him a special player. The next step for him is continuing to develop so he can maximize his exceptional potential. He'll always be a member of our brotherhood and we want nothing but the very best for him.”

DukeFanSince1990
05-12-2017, 12:44 PM
Good for Frank and his family. Come on down Mr. Duval.

DukeTrinity11
05-12-2017, 12:49 PM
I've never been more disappointed with a decision by a Duke player ever.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out Frank.

Dr. Rosenrosen
05-12-2017, 12:49 PM
What happened with last year's team? It almost feels like a revolt. I don't know how to wrap my head around this degree of underclassmen turnover... Tatum, Giles, Jackson, Kennard, Jeter, Obi. I will be cheering hard for all who suit up in the correct color blue. But wow... this just feels off to me. I'm sure I'm wrong and it's just all a matter of really bad timing. I hope.

This world of OAD is tough. You can't not recruit these guys, right? Or maybe you make a conscious decision not to recruit kids with OAD aspirations. I don't know. It would require a multi-year transition period to pull back from OAD recruiting. It feels like KY is the only program that has made a steady and successful enough practice of recruiting OADs to make it really work from the standpoint of fielding deep teams each year (not from the standpoint of championships). And now we find ourselves in a bit of a pickle for next year... and who knows how many years after this if we keep pushing hard on the top top top talent. It's definitely a catch 22. Not faulting or calling out our staff but it does feel like we're caught a little in the middle right now.

kAzE
05-12-2017, 12:58 PM
3rd straight year in a row with an unexpected point guard departure. I can't possibly fault the coaches for recruiting the way they have, but we have got to have a better insurance policy going forward. Dunno if goldwire is part of such a plan, but getting some 4* ball handlers in addition to the 5* guys seems like a must going forward. If a guy looks like he has a 1% chance of going OAD, we have to expect that it can and will happen.

luburch
05-12-2017, 12:59 PM
I've never been more disappointed with a decision by a Duke player ever.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out Frank.

I don't get this reaction at all. The kid has a chance to go make money playing the sport he loves. Why knock him for it because you don't agree with it? Seems selfish to me.

You can have a reasonable conversation about believing Frank made a poor professional choice by electing to stay in the draft, but that's not remotely what you did.

budwom
05-12-2017, 01:01 PM
Imagine if Allen had left...

CDu
05-12-2017, 01:02 PM
What happened with last year's team? It almost feels like a revolt. I don't know how to wrap my head around this degree of underclassmen turnover... Tatum, Giles, Jackson, Kennard, Jeter, Obi. I will be cheering hard for all who suit up in the correct color blue. But wow... this just feels off to me. I'm sure I'm wrong and it's just all a matter of really bad timing. I hope.

This world of OAD is tough. You can't not recruit these guys, right? Or maybe you make a conscious decision not to recruit kids with OAD aspirations. I don't know. It would require a multi-year transition period to pull back from OAD recruiting. It feels like KY is the only program that has made a steady and successful enough practice of recruiting OADs to make it really work from the standpoint of fielding deep teams each year (not from the standpoint of championships). And now we find ourselves in a bit of a pickle for next year... and who knows how many years after this if we keep pushing hard on the top top top talent. It's definitely a catch 22. Not faulting or calling out our staff but it does feel like we're caught a little in the middle right now.

All but one of those departures was obvious. Tatum was a top-5 prospect who will be a top-5 pick. Giles was a top-5 prospect who will be a first-round pick on potential despite recovering from knee issues. Kennard just had one of the most impressive offensive seasons in memory, whose athletic limitations mean his first-round status is as good as it will get. Jeter was a top-20 recruit who couldn't crack the rotation for two years and wasn't likely to start next year. Obi graduated and wasn't going to play at Duke. Only Jackson, Allen, and Bolden had reasonable questions regarding their decisions, and we kept two of three.

NashvilleDevil
05-12-2017, 01:02 PM
I've never been more disappointed with a decision by a Duke player ever.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out Frank.

Thank goodness Frank made a decision based on how it benefits him and his family and not how it benefits you.

fgb
05-12-2017, 01:03 PM
3rd straight year in a row with an unexpected point guard departure.

except that jackson is not a point guard.

richardjackson199
05-12-2017, 01:05 PM
I wish nothing but all the best to Frank.

I really hope this means that he expects to be taken in the first or received a guarantee from someone like Utah at #30. Hopefully his good combine performance earned him that guarantee. If he's certain he's a first round pick, it's the right decision.

If he has no guarantee, I'd expect 2nd round and D-league. If he prefers D-League to starring for Duke and almost certainly being taken in first round next year, it's his life and his decision. So I guess he still made the right decision for him.

Overall, Duke will be fine! We've lost plenty of players early we expected back. We are always fine. Grayson has similar strengths as Frank - athletic, scoring guard who can get to the rim. Grayson creates better for teammates and shoots better. I'm giddy about a senior captain season from Grayson.

If we get Duval, and I fully expect that we will, this could help team chemistry. I was honestly worried about team chemistry if Frank returned after all the buzz that he didn't want to play on a team with Duval and Grayson. Duval, Grayson, Trent, Carter, and Bolden are a pretty incredibly talented starting 5. Duke has plenty of playing time available. And we should have some incredible distributors who love to set up teammates.

So let's also go get Tucker and Bamba! I can't imagine a better landing spot for either of them right now. Duke will be fine, and Duke will be Duke.

All the best to Frank, and I wish him the utmost success.

Blue in the Face
05-12-2017, 01:06 PM
Thank goodness Frank made a decision based on how it benefits him and his family and not how it benefits you.
I don't really think Frank deserves credit for putting his interests ahead of DukeTrinity11's.

Bluedog
05-12-2017, 01:07 PM
Imagine if Allen had left...

Most experienced returning player would be....Marques Bolden. With his 157 minutes played (4.2mpg). Yeah, the turnover this off-season is ridiculous. And I am insanely jealous that somehow UNC manages to keep top 10 recruits who are lotto picks 3 years, yet we can't keep our bench guys from bolting to the NBA. No hard feelings to Frank, though, and wish him the best. I honestly do think that this season wasn't that much fun for the guys, particularly with the Grayson hate tsunami all season long. These guys are kids, it's got to impact them. Heck, I'm an adult who is not even remotely close to the program, and I'm sad to say it affected me in some capacity (not looking for sympathy, just stating the truth as pathetic as that sounds). I'm just a bit bitter by all this, but will still enjoy seeing what the guys can do that are on our team next season. LGD!

DukeWarhead
05-12-2017, 01:07 PM
Too bad. Really wanted to root for him next year. Hate relying so much on freshmen.

ChillinDuke
05-12-2017, 01:08 PM
I understand Frank's decision. Especially in light of how he performed yesterday.

However, that doesn't mean I'm not disappointed.

If we don't get Duval, we're in a little bit of a bind at guard/wing.

- Chillin

blazindw
05-12-2017, 01:09 PM
At the beginning of the year, we were expecting to lose Allen, Kennard, Giles, Tatum, Jackson, and Bolden in addition to the graduation of Jefferson and Jones and we were all ecstatic at the firepower that we had on the team. Now, we're telling them to not let the door hit them on the way out? Is it because we didn't win it all? Cuz after this year, I still expected all of them to leave. I hoped a few would stay, and Jackson's departure is probably the most surprising. But, the NBA is built on potential and Jackson has a ton of it. He likely balled out at the combine and some teams gave him the word that if available in the first round they will take him.

I wish Frank nothing but the best. I was hoping he'd come back, but understand that he has a great opportunity and is going to seek his dream. I can't be mad at that at all. And I will always consider him a part of the Duke family. I would hope that everyone else joins me in that sentiment.

WVDUKEFAN
05-12-2017, 01:10 PM
except that jackson is not a point guard.

I totally agree.

Also - I read that Giles hasn't signed with an agent (fanbuzz.com). I'm not sure if this is correct or not. Is there any chance of him coming back? Lastly, I think w/ Jackson gone to the NBA, the coaching staff could make a strong push for Bamba to play along side Bolden (who I really thought was more of a PF than a true C). Wishful thinking, I suppose.

Bluedog
05-12-2017, 01:13 PM
At the beginning of the year, we were expecting to lose Allen, Kennard, Giles, Tatum, Jackson, and Bolden in addition to the graduation of Jefferson and Jones and we were all ecstatic at the firepower that we had on the team. Now, we're telling them to not let the door hit them on the way out? Is it because we didn't win it all? Cuz after this year, I still expected all of them to leave. I hoped a few would stay, and Jackson's departure is probably the most surprising. But, the NBA is built on potential and Jackson has a ton of it. He likely balled out at the combine and some teams gave him the word that if available in the first round they will take him.

I wish Frank nothing but the best. I was hoping he'd come back, but understand that he has a great opportunity and is going to seek his dream. I can't be mad at that at all. And I will always consider him a part of the Duke family. I would hope that everyone else joins me in that sentiment.

I agree with your message absolutely. However, I don't think many on the board expected Kennard to go pro at the beginning of this season (and Jackson as well was largely expected to be a 2+ year player). So, yeah, Allen, Giles, Tatum, and (likely) Bolden. But we ended up also losing Kennard, Jeter, and Jackson. Of course, Allen unexpectedly came back. Luke was definitely a surprise to a lot of folks with his huge games that started early on in the season.

DraftExpress characterized Luke this way in November:
"Kennard figures to play a prominent role for Mike Krzyzewski's program for the foreseeable future, and ultimately find his way onto the NBA radar." it's a "little early to make definitive statements about where he stands as a NBA prospect." http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Luke-Kennard-72914/

CDu
05-12-2017, 01:14 PM
At the beginning of the year, we were expecting to lose Allen, Kennard, Giles, Tatum, Jackson, and Bolden in addition to the graduation of Jefferson and Jones and we were all ecstatic at the firepower that we had on the team. Now, we're telling them to not let the door hit them on the way out? Is it because we didn't win it all? Cuz after this year, I still expected all of them to leave. I hoped a few would stay, and Jackson's departure is probably the most surprising. But, the NBA is built on potential and Jackson has a ton of it. He likely balled out at the combine and some teams gave him the word that if available in the first round they will take him.

I wish Frank nothing but the best. I was hoping he'd come back, but understand that he has a great opportunity and is going to seek his dream. I can't be mad at that at all. And I will always consider him a part of the Duke family. I would hope that everyone else joins me in that sentiment.

To be fair, I think some of this is revisionist history. I don't think many if any were expecting Kennard to leave as a sophomore as of last October. Same with Jackson.

CDu
05-12-2017, 01:16 PM
I totally agree.

Also - I read that Giles hasn't signed with an agent (fanbuzz.com). I'm not sure if this is correct or not. Is there any chance of him coming back? Lastly, I think w/ Jackson gone to the NBA, the coaching staff could make a strong push for Bamba to play along side Bolden (who I really thought was more of a PF than a true C). Wishful thinking, I suppose.

Giles is not coming back. He is all in on the draft.

dukelifer
05-12-2017, 01:17 PM
Profoundly disappointing. My engagement in Duke basketball slips ever further.

(While down the road they win a title with a senior who was a top-10 recruit, a junior NPOY candidate who is returning for his senior season, and a junior top-15 recruit who is returning for his senior season. Karma? What karma?)

I fully expect UNC will win the ACC next year- if Bradley comes back, as it looks to be the case.

subzero02
05-12-2017, 01:18 PM
Jones, Thornton, Jackson, and next Duval? Our freshmen pgs aren't making it to their sophomore seasons.

Best of luck Frank. It would have been nice to see you develop next year but I understand the lure of the NBA.

ndkjr70
05-12-2017, 01:18 PM
I pride myself in being overly positive about any member of the Duke basketball brotherhood. I also can't imagine what goes on inside of an 18 year old kid's mind when an NBA executive tells him he'll be drafted.

But this is stupid. Plain, ugly, and grossly stupid. I wish for him nothing but success, but I would be lying if I said I will care when (if?) he fails miserably in the never ending cycle of D-league.

Bye.

kAzE
05-12-2017, 01:24 PM
except that jackson is not a point guard.

He was listed as a point guard on every major recruiting website before coming to Duke, and now listed a point guard on every NBA mock draft site, and he even started at point guard for Duke for the last 8 games of the season. He's a point guard. He's certainly not any less of a point guard than Derryck Thornton.

But that wasn't even the point of my post. The point is, you can get away with not having outstanding big men in college basketball. You cannot get away with not having good ball handlers. Grayson Allen is the only proven ball handler on the roster right now, and it's going to be a major problem if we don't get Duval.

Anyone plugged into the grad transfer market? Are there any decent guards left to recruit?

lotusland
05-12-2017, 01:26 PM
If given the choice I would've taken Jackson over Duval but signing Duval is very important now. Tucker is needed now too assuming he's more ready than O'Connell to be a third shooter along with GA and Trent. When was the last time you could see a Duke lineup on the floor with only one legit threat from 3? Assuming GA and Trent don't play every minute of every game that could happen with regularity this year. Jack, O'Connell and possibly Tucker are the only other shooters available. And yes there is even room for Bamba now Because Duke will almost certainly play mostly lineups with two true post players. In that case there will be plenty of minutes when one of Carter or Bolden aren't on the court even without injuries. I think Javin, Vrank, and Jack can handle splitting the third option now if we don't get Bamba tho.

subzero02
05-12-2017, 01:26 PM
I totally agree.

Also - I read that Giles hasn't signed with an agent (fanbuzz.com). I'm not sure if this is correct or not. Is there any chance of him coming back? Lastly, I think w/ Jackson gone to the NBA, the coaching staff could make a strong push for Bamba to play along side Bolden (who I really thought was more of a PF than a true C). Wishful thinking, I suppose.

I expect Bolden to play center and Carter to play PF. I don't see us signing Bamba.

Chicago 1995
05-12-2017, 01:26 PM
I fully expect UNC will win the ACC next year- if Bradley comes back, as it looks to be the case.

Has there been a change in the CW on this? Bradley pulling out of workouts yesterday was seen by most to be a sign that he had a guarantee and was staying in the draft.

UNC might well be the favorite -- we certainly shouldn't be Duval and/or Tucker or not -- but based on everything I read yesterday, Tony Bradley shouldn't be expected to help them defend.

hudlow
05-12-2017, 01:27 PM
Good luck Frank!
Make the family proud.

Dukehky
05-12-2017, 01:28 PM
Al Jackson has an unrealistic view of his son's current status as an NBA prospect. Hope he likes riding on buses, that's his life for the next couple years. I do think he'll have a solid career, but if it took Quinn and Seth 2-3 years to get a guaranteed contract, I don't think Frank's getting one right away.

I don't think Utah will take him in round 1 either. I know he's from Utah, but teams don't make decisions based on home town guys, at least good teams (See Charlotte Hornets).

duke74
05-12-2017, 01:30 PM
I've never been more disappointed with a decision by a Duke player ever.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out Frank.

I will get flamed for this, but totally agree with the sentiment, if not the "ever" part. Wish him the best, but...it's his right to leave and my right to erase him from my memory. bah bye...

blazindw
05-12-2017, 01:31 PM
To be fair, I think some of this is revisionist history. I don't think many if any were expecting Kennard to leave as a sophomore as of last October. Same with Jackson.

I will say that we did discuss it last fall on the podcast on a few episodes that it wouldn't be surprising at all if all of the above left for the NBA. We also were very bullish on the prospects of Kennard having a great season and raising his stock, though we didn't think he would lead our team in scoring.

Natty_B
05-12-2017, 01:31 PM
Insert This Is Fine meme here

flyingdutchdevil
05-12-2017, 01:33 PM
I will say that we did discuss it last fall on the podcast on a few episodes that it wouldn't be surprising at all if all of the above left for the NBA. We also were very bullish on the prospects of Kennard having a great season and raising his stock, though we didn't think he would lead our team in scoring.

Then you were probably the only ones thinking that about Kennard. Even kaze - Kennard's #1 supporter - didn't think he'd have such a good year that he'd leave early. I agree on Tatum, Allen, Giles, Bolden, and - to a lesser extent - Jackson. But given the deep draft, Jackson's good-but-not-great season, and his likely featuring at a guard-oriented school like Duke, I'm shocked he left for the draft. Pre-season? Certainly could see it. Post-season? Very surprising.

Bluegrassdevil1
05-12-2017, 01:33 PM
I do not understand how anyone could fault Jackson, or any human on the planet, for opting to pursue vast amounts of money in exchange for playing a child's game.

Good for Jackson.

And Kennard.

And Tatum.

And Giles.

And every player before them and every player to come after.

Duke will be fine. And if not, then it is not now, will not be, nor will ever be, Jackson's problem or responsibility.

ncexnyc
05-12-2017, 01:38 PM
The Cinderella song said it best, "You Don't Know What You've Got Till It's Gone."

Way too many of you on this forum shortchanged Frank's current ability and future potential to become a GREAT PG.

I wish Frank the best of luck in the NBA, the kid can play.

brlftz
05-12-2017, 01:38 PM
I saw today that Makai Mason committed to Baylor. Bummer

edit to add: turns out he'll still be playing for Yale this next season, and will play at Baylor the year after next. This is because he missed a year and the Ivy League doesn't allow redshirts, so he already knows he'll need to play his 4th season somewhere else.

kAzE
05-12-2017, 01:39 PM
Then you were probably the only ones thinking that about Kennard. Even kaze - Kennard's #1 supporter - didn't think he'd have such a good year that he'd leave early. I agree on Tatum, Allen, Giles, Bolden, and - to a lesser extent - Jackson. But given the deep draft, Jackson's good-but-not-great season, and his likely featuring at a guard-oriented school like Duke, I'm shocked he left for the draft. Pre-season? Certainly could see it. Post-season? Very surprising.

I didn't know I was his #1 guy; I just like to think of myself as the person who got on the train first, but I'll gladly accept that mantle. You are correct. I was a bit worried that he would go pro, but for some reason, I didn't think he actually do it. Times have really changed. From now on, if a guy is a likely first rounder, I'll assume he's probably gone.

CDu
05-12-2017, 01:39 PM
I will say that we did discuss it last fall on the podcast on a few episodes that it wouldn't be surprising at all if all of the above left for the NBA. We also were very bullish on the prospects of Kennard having a great season and raising his stock, though we didn't think he would lead our team in scoring.

You may have discussed it, but it was WAY outside of the conventional wisdom with Kennard. Pretty sure the vast majority of folks pegged him as a 3-4 year guy. Heck, some folks weren't even convinced he would go AFTER having put up one of the most impressive offensive seasons ever. And the only reason he is going is because he put up an otherworldly efficient and prolific season. So if you didn't think he was going to do this before the season, then why would you think he was going to go pro? He certainly didn't profile physically as an early-entry guy, so he would have needed to have a monstrous season to overcome that.

Allen was assumed by pretty much everyone to be a lock to go. Same with Tatum and Giles. Bolden slightly less so, but still considered by many to be a one-and-done. Jackson wasn't as clear a case, mainly because it wasn't clear if he'd be a starter or not. So basically we swapped Allen for Kennard (Kennard had the season everyone expected Allen to have; Allen had the season many expected Kennard to have). Tatum and Giles did what was expected in terms of their draft decision. And we went 50/50 on the questionable freshmen.

subzero02
05-12-2017, 01:39 PM
Al Jackson has an unrealistic view of his son's current status as an NBA prospect. Hope he likes riding on buses, that's his life for the next couple years. I do think he'll have a solid career, but if it took Quinn and Seth 2-3 years to get a guaranteed contract, I don't think Frank's getting one right away.

I don't think Utah will take him in round 1 either. I know he's from Utah, but teams don't make decisions based on home town guys, at least good teams (See Charlotte Hornets).

I think he could have a smoother path to an NBA roster; he's got a legitimate chance to be a first round draft pick with guaranteed money. Jackson is a lot more athletic than either Curry or Cook. As a freshman entering the draft, Jackson is significantly younger than Cook was as a 4th year senor and Curry as a 5th year senior. Teams will be more willing to gamble based on his potential.

flyingdutchdevil
05-12-2017, 01:40 PM
The Cinderella song said it best, "You Don't Know What You've Got Till It's Gone."

Way too many of you on this forum shortchanged Frank's current ability and future potential to become a GREAT PG.

I wish Frank the best of luck in the NBA, the kid can play.

No. I stand by that. He's a combo guard. Loud and clear. Think Jerryd Bayless, who has been in the league for 8 years already.

Frank isn't a PG. He's a tweener right now, but hopefully he can compete with bigger SGs or learn to distribute/improve his court vision to be a solid PG.

Dukehky
05-12-2017, 01:42 PM
I saw today that Makai Mason committed to Baylor. Bummer

Would not have helped us next year because he'd have to sit out. Additionally, our recruiting prospects for next year look good. Good mix of one and done and multi-year guys, don't want Mason hurting that. Plus we have started looking at Durham from UConn who has tons of upside.

flyingdutchdevil
05-12-2017, 01:42 PM
I didn't know I was his #1 guy; I just like to think of myself as the person who got on the train first, but I'll gladly accept that mantle. You are correct. I was a bit worried that he would go pro, but for some reason, I didn't think he actually do it. Times have really changed. From now on, if a guy is a likely first rounder, I'll assume he's probably gone.

From merely a draftability standpoint, that was Grayson's mistake exactly a year ago.

lotusland
05-12-2017, 01:45 PM
Maybe Frank just wanted to get on with his pro career but I imagine he started the year expecting that Grayson would declare for the draft and he would get the keys for next year. With Grayson back and Duval possibly (likely?) signing, maybe he just decided there weren't good enough reasons to come back for another year.

If Jackson is taken in the second round and doesn't get offered a guaranteed contract, is he obligated to stay with that team anyway? I'm wondering if Utah, for instance, could guarantee Frank that they would take him in the second round and offer him a guaranteed two year contract for less than the 1st round guaranteed salary. The only problem for Frank would be if another team took him in the second round before Utah but that team did not offer a contract. Is Frank still obligated to remain with the other team without a contract or can he bail and go to Utah for say a guaranteed 2 yr contract a $300k/yr?

BLPOG
05-12-2017, 01:45 PM
I pride myself in being overly positive about any member of the Duke basketball brotherhood. I also can't imagine what goes on inside of an 18 year old kid's mind when an NBA executive tells him he'll be drafted.

But this is stupid. Plain, ugly, and grossly stupid. I wish for him nothing but success, but I would be lying if I said I will care when (if?) he fails miserably in the never ending cycle of D-league.

Bye.

You care enough to let the internet know you think he's destined for failure. It seems to me that with that outlook you wouldn't want him at Duke.

I really don't understand these sort of posts.

DukieInBrasil
05-12-2017, 01:47 PM
Profoundly disappointing. My engagement in Duke basketball slips ever further.

(While down the road they win a title with a senior who was a top-10 recruit, a junior NPOY candidate who is returning for his senior season, and a junior top-15 recruit who is returning for his senior season. Karma? What karma?)

Yeah, it's getting harder to get all that excited about this. We'll have one player next year that we've seen for more than a few minutes. Who is there to rally behind as a fan? Trent? Carter? Duval (if he even comes)? From all accounts they're gone after next year anyway. Grayson is a good kid and i'm glad he stayed. He's the only guy who has played even a single meaningful minute on the team. Bolden hardly got off the bench in the 2nd half as the season came to a close. Giles, Javin and Jack have played the same number of minutes combined that Grayson played his Fr. year. Duke's entire non-Grayson roster returns fewer minutes played than Grayson played in either one of his So. or Jr. seasons.
I enjoyed Tatum's game, but i never was able to care all that much. Giles even less so.
We as Duke fans love giving Ol' Roy and UNCheaters a hard time about not being able to land big time recruits, but what is the outcome? Consecutive ACC 1st place finishes, consecutive appearances in the NCAA title game and the Natty. I'm a fan of Duke University basketball, not Duke Alumni NBA basketball fan, and i would much rather win championships than have OAD players. 2015 was a rare magical year, but even on that team we had quite a bit of upperclassmen and experience. We don't have that going in to next year, and we won't have it the following year either.
We have no experience, outside of Grayson, and we won't have any experience on the team for quite a while. It's hard to see how next year's team, or the team after that, will be better than a marginal top-25 team, unless we land grad student transfers and more recruits who are willing to sit the bench for a year or two.
I hope Frank does in fact get drafted in the 1st Round.

Dukehky
05-12-2017, 01:48 PM
I think he could have a smoother path to an NBA roster; he's got a legitimate chance to be a first round draft pick with guaranteed money. Jackson is a lot more athletic than either Curry or Cook. As a freshman entering the draft, Jackson is significantly younger than Cook was as a 4th year senor and Curry as a 5th year senior. Teams will be more willing to gamble based on his potential.

I don't disagree with you. But this draft is stupid deep, which could very well push him to the second round, and if that's the case, then the organization has very little invested and he would have to show it in the D-League. He's not as NBA ready as those other two, he could get there faster obviously because his physical gifts are far superior, but for the next year or two, he's going to be on a lot of buses.

He may be getting paid on an NBA contract while still living that D-League lifestyle. That's the biggest thing, D-League lifestyle sucks. Duke basketball lifestyle, is pretty swanky. So if you have to spend next year trying to make a team, I would have suggested coming back, living like a star (when there is no financial pressure) and almost assuredly going higher in a weaker draft after you've had a substantially better season.

He's had people in his ear all year telling him to go though.

I think this is actually a stupid financial and basketball decision for him. I don't understand it, but I do know that people on the high school circuits were not huge fans of Al Jacksons, and K has a bit of an ego (to put it mildly), I could very well see Franks dad not loving the dynamic that Coach K brings.

We'll see. If we don't get Duval and to some extent Tucker for depth purposes, next year is going to be interesting.

CDu
05-12-2017, 01:49 PM
Maybe Frank just wanted to get on with his pro career but I imagine he started the year expecting that Grayson would declare for the draft and he would get the keys for next year. With Grayson back and Duval possibly (likely?) signing, maybe he just decided there weren't good enough reasons to come back for another year.

If Jackson is taken in the second round and doesn't get offered a guaranteed contract, is he obligated to stay with that team anyway? I'm wondering if Utah, for instance, could guarantee Frank that they would take him in the second round and offer him a guaranteed two year contract for less than the 1st round guaranteed salary. The only problem for Frank would be if another team took him in the second round before Utah but that team did not offer a contract. Is Frank still obligated to remain with the other team without a contract or can he bail and go to Utah for say a guaranteed 2 yr contract a $300k/yr?

If a team drafts him and offers him a contrsct of any sort, his rights belong to said team.

brlftz
05-12-2017, 01:51 PM
Would not have helped us next year because he'd have to sit out. Additionally, our recruiting prospects for next year look good. Good mix of one and done and multi-year guys, don't want Mason hurting that. Plus we have started looking at Durham from UConn who has tons of upside.

Yeah, realized that after I posted and edited accordingly before I saw your post. Guess that's why we weren't all over him.

In other news, I'm not giving up on next year:

We currently have a nice core of 4 McD's in our starting lineup, and Duval would make 5.
Bolden has amazing physical tools and a year of college under his belt, and already showed flashes of rim protection and good instincts defending PnR.
Grayson might just stay healthy and free of distractions.
Anyone who has watched video of Duval has to be excited about the possibility of guys like Bolden, Carter, and Delaurier lurking around the hoop while Duval breaks down a defense.
We won't be deep, but if we add Duval and Tucker we have high-level talent at every spot in our starting lineup and maybe just enough depth to be mighty good.

Devils Librarian
05-12-2017, 01:51 PM
Is it possible to happy for Frank because he has earned this opportunity, while simultaneously being completely frustrated at the situation? Most of us here are avid college basketball fans. Is there any other sport where a fan base has to endure having players for only a single season? Is this a sustainable model?

flyingdutchdevil
05-12-2017, 01:54 PM
Is it possible to happy for Frank because he has earned this opportunity, while simultaneously being completely frustrated at the situation? Most of us here are avid college basketball fans. Is there any other sport where a fan base has to endure having players for only a single season? Is this a sustainable model?

Yes. This post is spot on. Absolutely happy for Jackson. He'll be a millionaire at 19 and fulfill his dream. But I'm frustrated for next year's team. Looking forward to the season, but I'll be frustrated. Good news is my expectations are low so I can't be mad after the season, right?

Troublemaker
05-12-2017, 02:01 PM
Has there been a change in the CW on this? Bradley pulling out of workouts yesterday was seen by most to be a sign that he had a guarantee and was staying in the draft.

UNC might well be the favorite -- we certainly shouldn't be Duval and/or Tucker or not -- but based on everything I read yesterday, Tony Bradley shouldn't be expected to help them defend.

Oh, I could definitely see Duke getting picked to win the ACC again. I'd have to think about it once all the rosters are finalized, but I might even end up agreeing with it. There's no obvious #1 as of right now. Just teams with question marks and/or awaiting key recruiting or NBA draft decisions.


Maybe Frank just wanted to get on with his pro career but I imagine he started the year expecting that Grayson would declare for the draft and he would get the keys for next year. With Grayson back and Duval possibly (likely?) signing, maybe he just decided there weren't good enough reasons to come back for another year.

If Jackson is taken in the second round and doesn't get offered a guaranteed contract, is he obligated to stay with that team anyway? I'm wondering if Utah, for instance, could guarantee Frank that they would take him in the second round and offer him a guaranteed two year contract for less than the 1st round guaranteed salary. The only problem for Frank would be if another team took him in the second round before Utah but that team did not offer a contract. Is Frank still obligated to remain with the other team without a contract or can he bail and go to Utah for say a guaranteed 2 yr contract a $300k/yr?

I think Frank will go late first-round. He just looked so quick at the combine yesterday. Dang, he would've so good in a Duke uniform next season.

dukebluesincebirth
05-12-2017, 02:01 PM
Is it possible to happy for Frank because he has earned this opportunity, while simultaneously being completely frustrated at the situation? Most of us here are avid college basketball fans. Is there any other sport where a fan base has to endure having players for only a single season? Is this a sustainable model?

I've thought for awhile that the NBA is killing college bball (my favorite sport). Look at this year's national title game. Boring and not impressive talent on the court. I do not think it's a sustainable model. Avid lifelong college bball fans such as myself are beginning to lose interest, and this will likely continue.

elvis14
05-12-2017, 02:03 PM
Profoundly disappointing. My engagement in Duke basketball slips ever further.

(While down the road they win a title with a senior who was a top-10 recruit, a junior NPOY candidate who is returning for his senior season, and a junior top-15 recruit who is returning for his senior season. Karma? What karma?)


Yeah, it's getting harder to get all that excited about this. We'll have one player next year that we've seen for more than a few minutes. Who is there to rally behind as a fan? Trent? Carter? Duval (if he even comes)? From all accounts they're gone after next year anyway. Grayson is a good kid and i'm glad he stayed. He's the only guy who has played even a single meaningful minute on the team. Bolden hardly got off the bench in the 2nd half as the season came to a close. Giles, Javin and Jack have played the same number of minutes combined that Grayson played his Fr. year. Duke's entire non-Grayson roster returns fewer minutes played than Grayson played in either one of his So. or Jr. seasons.
I enjoyed Tatum's game, but i never was able to care all that much. Giles even less so.
We as Duke fans love giving Ol' Roy and UNCheaters a hard time about not being able to land big time recruits, but what is the outcome? Consecutive ACC 1st place finishes, consecutive appearances in the NCAA title game and the Natty. I'm a fan of Duke University basketball, not Duke Alumni NBA basketball fan, and i would much rather win championships than have OAD players. 2015 was a rare magical year, but even on that team we had quite a bit of upperclassmen and experience. We don't have that going in to next year, and we won't have it the following year either.
We have no experience, outside of Grayson, and we won't have any experience on the team for quite a while. It's hard to see how next year's team, or the team after that, will be better than a marginal top-25 team, unless we land grad student transfers and more recruits who are willing to sit the bench for a year or two.
I hope Frank does in fact get drafted in the 1st Round.

In many ways these 2 posts sum up some of my thoughts. I find Frank going early a great disappointment. I wish him luck and appreciate that he'll be another number to add to the count of Duke players in the NBA but I know I'll have little more than a passing interest in him (and Harry and Jayson). Contrast that with JJ Redick. I stay up late to watch Clippers games and often check out their box scores to see how our 4 year player and all time scoring leader is doing.

As the OAD era has taken over I find it more difficult to be overly interested in the players. For one thing, there's more players. But with so many of them just staying 1 year my interest in them is not high. For example, I was much more interested in how MP3 was doing in the NBA this year than Ingram. My interest level in Duke Basketball remains quite high but I do wonder how/if this will effect the casual fan.

It's also disappointing to see some posters attacking others for expressing disappointment in Frank's decision. No, Frank doesn't owe us anything but if you're not disappointed when something like this happens I think you have to ask yourself if you cared in the first place.

left_hook_lacey
05-12-2017, 02:06 PM
I didn't know I was his #1 guy; I just like to think of myself as the person who got on the train first, but I'll gladly accept that mantle. You are correct. I was a bit worried that he would go pro, but for some reason, I didn't think he actually do it. Times have really changed. From now on, if a guy is a likely first rounder, I'll assume he's probably gone.

I'm gonna toot my own horn here a little and say I was on board as well. I voted for Luke in EVERY MOM poll and even commented in some game threads that without Luke, we would've been in some serious trouble this year. I was even accused of having a man crush.

Jeffrey
05-12-2017, 02:07 PM
I've always questioned Will Avery's decision. Upon reflection, Will did leave Duke as a true PG and the 14th overall pick.

flyingdutchdevil
05-12-2017, 02:07 PM
In many ways these 2 posts sum up some of my thoughts. I find Frank going early a great disappointment. I wish him luck and appreciate that he'll be another number to add to the count of Duke players in the NBA but I know I'll have little more than a passing interest in him (and Harry and Jayson). Contrast that with JJ Redick. I stay up late to watch Clippers games and often check out their box scores to see how our 4 year player and all time scoring leader is doing.

As the OAD era has taken over I find it more difficult to be overly interested in the players. For one thing, there's more players. But with so many of them just staying 1 year my interest in them is not high. For example, I was much more interested in how MP3 was doing in the NBA this year than Ingram. My interest level in Duke Basketball remains quite high but I do wonder how/if this will effect the casual fan.

It's also disappointing to see some posters attacking others for expressing disappointment in Frank's decision. No, Frank doesn't owe us anything but if you're not disappointed when something like this happens I think you have to ask yourself if you cared in the first place.

No one is attacking posters who express disappointment/frustration. They are attacking posters who don't give Jackson any respect and "de-prioritize" him as a Duke basketball player.

Like you, I do question posters who don't express disappointment. It's perfectly okay to feel disappointment for Duke but be happy for Jackson at the same time.

ncexnyc
05-12-2017, 02:15 PM
Is it possible to happy for Frank because he has earned this opportunity, while simultaneously being completely frustrated at the situation? Most of us here are avid college basketball fans. Is there any other sport where a fan base has to endure having players for only a single season? Is this a sustainable model?

I spent 20 years in the Army and 24 years working for Eaton. Two weeks ago I packed it in and retired. A large part of the reason for my retirement was because the work place and society in general were changing. Things evolve and college basketball isn't immune to those changes nor is Duke basketball.

While Coach K. remains a constant to the program, even he isn't immune to changing as we've witnessed these past few years, but I'm sorry to say the old philosophy of the "FIST", is long gone. Being a part of something bigger than oneself just doesn't fly with these kids today and can you really blame them when the NBA is throwing money at them left and right?

We also need to be realistic when viewing college basketball and understand that college isn't what these kids dream about, but going onto the next level is.

azzefkram
05-12-2017, 02:16 PM
Best of luck Frank. I would have loved to see season 2 of Frank Jackson, Blue Devil, but I can't fault someone for grabbing a guaranteed contract to follow their dream.

BD80
05-12-2017, 02:28 PM
if Knox knew this was coming? Might have made a difference ...

Good luck Frank. I don't really see him playing much for a few years (Who in the NBA can he guard? He can't create separation for a shot, can't shoot over anyone, no floater in the lane)

COYS
05-12-2017, 02:29 PM
I'm happy for Frank even though I would have loved to see him dominate next season. That being said, those who feel as if this dooms Duke's '17-'18 season are wrong, in my opinion. Obviously, losing Luke and Frank hurts, but we also got some unexpected returnees. We have Grayson back, a guy who, when healthy, is capable of putting together a NPOY-caliber season. We also have Marques back, a guy who I probably would have guess was more likely to leave after his freshman year than Frank. Admittedly, we're looking really thin on the perimeter next season, and a lot hinges on where Duval decides to go to college. Still, Duke can be very good next season even without Duval (in which case I'd imagine Duke picks up a grad transfer for depth).

Duke has been very successful with a thin perimeter rotation in the past. The 2001 team featured only two real guards in Jason Williams and Chris Duhon with Mike Dunleavy, Jr. supplementing when necessary (CDu didn't even start earlier in the season as Williams basically handled the ball at all times when he was on the court).

Of course, the 2010 team was perhaps even more limited. The 2001 team at least had two point guards and a small forward with guard skills who had recently hit a growth spurt. The 2010 team had no real point guards (you know, if Duke had positions). Jon ended up being fantastic playing the role of point guard while Nolan and Kyle helped him out. Freshman Andre was really nothing more than a spot-up shooter and didn't handle the rock much at all.

So with Duval, Duke's '17-18 team will at least have three guys who can handle the rock in Grayson, Duval, and Gary. Better yet, one of those guys is a senior former All American while the other is the top rated point guard in the freshman class. And yes, I know that Duval is unlikely to have a season as incredible as Jason Williams in 00-01, but lucky for us, Duval doesn't have to play against Jason Williams and Duke's 2000-2001 team. The college basketball landscape is very different now, and Duke will be able to put out a starting five in which all five guys are likely to be NBA players, all five are possible first round picks, and a few are potential top 10 picks. That is a lot of talent.

Without Duval, our ceiling might be lower . . . or it might not. Who knows what tricks Coach K has up his sleeve with grad transfers or something else? But I fully expect Duke to be very good next year, even without Frank. I expect Grayson to return to his 2016 form. I expect Wendell and Gary to perform how top 10 freshmen tend to perform for Duke. I expect Bolden to be vastly improved. I expect Javin, Jack, and Vrank to be more ready to provide quality minutes off the bench. And I expect Duke to win a lot more games than we lose and be a credible threat to beat any team on any given day.

Jeffrey
05-12-2017, 02:37 PM
Without Duval, our ceiling might be lower . . . or it might not.

Either way, it's not the roof.

WHOneedsSOX
05-12-2017, 02:40 PM
Damn kind of had the feeling he would leave when he exploded in the 2nd half of the season. Good thing Allen is coming back. Still though, next season's team isn't looking that promising. Duval will help a ton but there's absolutely no wing depth even with him.

COYS
05-12-2017, 02:42 PM
While Coach K. remains a constant to the program, even he isn't immune to changing as we've witnessed these past few years, but I'm sorry to say the old philosophy of the "FIST", is long gone. Being a part of something bigger than oneself just doesn't fly with these kids today and can you really blame them when the NBA is throwing money at them left and right?

We also need to be realistic when viewing college basketball and understand that college isn't what these kids dream about, but going onto the next level is.

I don't think it's fair to use the "these kids today" statement as a pejorative. It's hard for me to see how accepting NBA money is somehow evidence of poor character, a lack of respect for the concept of a team, or selfishness. Players in the past who stayed three or four years did so largely because the NBA just didn't take many early entrants. But, as you said, times change. Now the NBA has no problem taking kids with less experience and so market forces are pushing kids to leave. The attitudes of the kids haven't really changed.

If my child had an opportunity to play for no money for a university or fulfill their dream of playing professionally, I would encourage them to pursue their dream . . . unless they loved college life so much that they thought the risk of losing out on millions of dollars was worth coming back to school. Kids like Frank don't owe Duke more than they've already given. Just because they leave after one season doesn't mean they didn't buy into the idea of the "FIST" while they were here. Our 2015 team had three OADs and that was one of the more rock-solid, tight knit TEAMS Duke has ever had. There's a reason a lot of former Duke players, even the OAD guys, talk about the Duke brotherhood. For them, going to Duke WAS being part of something bigger than themselves, even if they weren't at the school for very long due to reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with their attitude or loyalty to the team.

westwall
05-12-2017, 02:44 PM
I didn't know I was [Kennard's] #1 guy; I just like to think of myself as the person who got on the train first, but I'll gladly accept that mantle.


Well, I grew up a couple of miles from Franklin Ohio, and have been his fan since early recruiting
days, so we may tie as his # 1 guy.

Hauerwas
05-12-2017, 02:46 PM
After Frank's dads comments about one and done you just felt like they were going to go this direction no matter the outcome or no matter the prognosis. It's an incredibly risky move and one that brings Will Avery to mind. Frank isn't elite at anything yet and learning on the job is a lot different to learning in college. But, if you don't want to be a Duke then leave, this just seems like a really, really short-sighted decision but only time will tell.

I can't imagine K and the staff embracing this decision. But some of life's lessons are best learned by failing, so welcome to the real world Frank.

kAzE
05-12-2017, 02:47 PM
Well, I grew up a couple of miles from Franklin Ohio, and have been his fan since early recruiting
days, so we may tie as his # 1 guy.

Alright, you win. I'll still take credit for being the loudest and most obnoxiously supportive poster on these forums about his game during his somewhat disappointing freshman year, when most of us were pretty skeptical of his shooting ability. (I'm looking at you, Kedsy :D)

Troublemaker
05-12-2017, 02:48 PM
Well, I grew up a couple of miles from Franklin Ohio, and have been his fan since early recruiting
days, so we may tie as his # 1 guy.

GumboMoop was Luke #1 until he disappeared, no offense to either KaZe or you. I was up there, too. We'd all be homicide suspects in the case of GumboMoop.

CDu
05-12-2017, 02:50 PM
GumboMoop was Luke #1 until he disappeared, no offense to either KaZe or you. I was up there, too. We'd all be homicide suspects in the case of GumboMoop.

Yeah, Gumbo had pegged Kennard as our 2015-16 PG, if I recall correctly. He or she was really high on Kennard.

hallcity
05-12-2017, 02:53 PM
Coach K needs to put a limit on one and dones -- no more than two a year -- and recruit more four star players who are going to be around four years. I know he's competitive and wants to beat out the other schools for the best talent but too many one and dones don't help you put the best team on the court year in and year out.

English
05-12-2017, 02:53 PM
Would not have helped us next year because he'd have to sit out. Additionally, our recruiting prospects for next year look good. Good mix of one and done and multi-year guys, don't want Mason hurting that. Plus we have started looking at Durham from UConn who has tons of upside.

This is largely true, but Durham from UConn is 6'11, so he's not exactly mutually exclusive to Makai Mason or any other guard. That is, unless the coaching staff sees this year as a cautionary tale and overcommits on the scholarship limit.

richardjackson199
05-12-2017, 02:56 PM
Coach K needs to put a limit on one and dones -- no more than two a year -- and recruit more four star players who are going to be around four years. I know he's competitive and wants to beat out the other schools for the best talent but too many one and dones don't help you put the best team on the court year in and year out.

I'm glad we had 3 OAD's in 2015. That team was pretty special. I'll trust K knows what he is doing.

DukeTrinity11
05-12-2017, 03:05 PM
Thank goodness Frank made a decision based on how it benefits him and his family and not how it benefits you.
I'm very skeptical that this decision truly benefits Frank unless Portland or Utah gave him a guarantee that they would select him in the 1st Round. Its common knowledge that Frank would have been a 1st Round lock and perhaps a lottery pick next year had he come back to Duke and worked on his ball handling and decision making skills a bit more due to the draft class being weaker next year.

duke79
05-12-2017, 03:07 PM
I saw today that Makai Mason committed to Baylor. Bummer

edit to add: turns out he'll still be playing for Yale this next season, and will play at Baylor the year after next. This is because he missed a year and the Ivy League doesn't allow redshirts, so he already knows he'll need to play his 4th season somewhere else.

Baylor?? Why? When I first read your post, I thought you were joking. But, apparently, no joke.

http://www.ourdailybears.com/2017/5/11/15628366/baylor-picks-up-commitment-from-yales-makai-mason-for-2018-2019-season

I realize he will have a year of eligibility left when his Yale career is over but couldn't he have followed the lead of the good Dr. Brodhead and go from Yale to Duke?
Maybe Duke had no interest in him but, from what I saw a year ago, that kid can play some ball (and shoot too). Maybe his injury has set him back and Duke had no interest but it seems to me that it would be nice to have him on the Duke team. Admittedly, I have no clue what our guard situation will look like for the 18/19 season but it never hurts to have an experienced, talented guard available. It just seems like a weird choice to me for a Yale kid from New England to go to Waco, TX for your last year of college BB.

DukeTrinity11
05-12-2017, 03:10 PM
I don't get this reaction at all. The kid has a chance to go make money playing the sport he loves. Why knock him for it because you don't agree with it? Seems selfish to me.

You can have a reasonable conversation about believing Frank made a poor professional choice by electing to stay in the draft, but that's not remotely what you did.
I didn't use foul language or berate Jackson in any way. Perhaps my response was a bit snarky but I'm emotionally unattached to Frank at this point as his decision hurts the Duke program next year and himself since he's not a guaranteed 1st Round pick.

Troublemaker
05-12-2017, 03:14 PM
I'm very skeptical that this decision truly benefits Frank unless Portland or Utah gave him a guarantee that they would select him in the 1st Round. Its common knowledge that Frank would have been a 1st Round lock and perhaps a lottery pick next year had he come back to Duke and worked on his ball handling and decision making skills a bit more due to the draft class being weaker next year.

Frank's great day at the combine followed by quickly hiring an agent is highly suggestive that he was happy with his feedback and may have earned a guarantee. I expect him to go in the 1st-round.

BigZ
05-12-2017, 03:24 PM
I doubt NBA teams guarantee picks. If so they aren't very smart

Devilwin
05-12-2017, 03:32 PM
I remind y'all that I caught grief for saying the team was burning to ashes a while back...Everyone was certain we had Knox..Nope. Now many are certain we are gonna get Duval. Maybe so..Maybe we should have developed a bench a bit more. I don't blame people for chasing the big money, but it sucks the way college ball is rapidly turning to crap. Excuse me, gotta run, I smell smoke coming from Durham...:mad:

coldriver10
05-12-2017, 03:41 PM
I'm currently sitting in the DMV waiting room and I'm not sure if this place is more or less depressing than this thread.

I loved watching Frank grow last year, and I'm really going to miss watching him kill ACC competition next year. As disappointed as I am, I think being upset with Coach K regarding our roster turnover is misplaced frustration. I don't think he recruited Frank thinking he'd he one and done, or Luke two and done... unfortunately/fortunately, sometimes guys just improve to the point where making the jump earlier than we expected is worth the risk. It is disappointing that I feel many players "these days" don't appreciate the once-in-a-lifetime experience that is college or develop a sense of love for their school. I LOVED college (at Duke) and wouldn't have wanted to cut my time there short...but then again, I'm not worth potentially millions of dollars (...yet) so I can't really comment on the dilemma.
Anyway, best of luck to Frank! We'll miss you.

Now serving, D581 at Station 4. Sigh.

westwall
05-12-2017, 03:45 PM
[Kennard's] somewhat disappointing freshman year,)


As his true fan, I didn't consider it "somewhat disappointing", just prologue for a breakout second year.

FerryFor50
05-12-2017, 03:48 PM
The bad news: Frank's gone. Was going to really enjoy him dominate the ACC next year. :(

The good news: I have all 4 years of my NCAA eligibility left. If Duke decides they need a 39 year old 5'8" PG with a decent jumper and no hops, they can give me a call.

weezie
05-12-2017, 03:50 PM
Giles is not coming back. He is all in on the draft.

Yes, more likely he's watching cage matches between agents vying for his signature...

FerryFor50
05-12-2017, 03:50 PM
Frank's great day at the combine followed by quickly hiring an agent is highly suggestive that he was happy with his feedback and may have earned a guarantee. I expect him to go in the 1st-round.

The stuff I had read was that he was getting feedback to go back to school.

Even if you get a guarantee at #29 or 30 in the first round, that's risky and borderline. I can't blame him for chasing his dream, but he could have been a top 10-15 pick next year with a good season. That said, maybe he saw what happened to Grayson and was like "yea, I'm outta here while I have the chance."

moonpie23
05-12-2017, 03:53 PM
wow...sad to see so many here disparaging frank's future. :( how can you begrudge the kid a chance to go make millions of dollars and play in the league? that's jus spiteful.....and selfish..


frank showed up at duke and did his part.....disappointed? sure.....i would have loved to see him come back and dominate, but having a shot at the league? shoot, take that and run like crazy, frank!!!

Bob Green
05-12-2017, 04:02 PM
I remind y'all that I caught grief for saying the team was burning to ashes a while back...

I'm not going to give you grief, but I still disagree with your opinion. Lots of time left to fill out the roster and lots of talent already on the roster. While it would have been nice for Jackson to return this isn't a "woe is Duke" moment. We will be okay with or without Duval, hopefully with.

Olympic Fan
05-12-2017, 04:06 PM
The stuff I had read was that he was getting feedback to go back to school.


(1) That was BEFORE the scrimmage

(2) And it was coming from self-appointed experts. We don't know what the NBA guys were saying.

I very much agree with Troublemaker ... the quick change of direction seems a good indication that Frank got a guarantee after Thursday's play ... interesting that he pulled out of Friday's scrimmage. Pretty good sign that he knows where he's going.

lotusland
05-12-2017, 04:10 PM
I'm very skeptical that this decision truly benefits Frank unless Portland or Utah gave him a guarantee that they would select him in the 1st Round. Its common knowledge that Frank would have been a 1st Round lock and perhaps a lottery pick next year had he come back to Duke and worked on his ball handling and decision making skills a bit more due to the draft class being weaker next year.

I don't think Frank was a lock to go first round next year especially if Duval is our PG. The only lock may be that the over-all draft is weaker next year.
Playing primarily off ball, I'm not certain he could show enough improvement to offset the seemingly automatic reduction in perceived potential that tends to occur. And there is always the chance he would get injured or just have a bad year. I'd agree that another year at Duke would make him better prepared to stick in the league but that is a different metric than draft potential .

FerryFor50
05-12-2017, 04:11 PM
(1) That was BEFORE the scrimmage

(2) And it was coming from self-appointed experts. We don't know what the NBA guys were saying.

I very much agree with Troublemaker ... the quick change of direction seems a good indication that Frank got a guarantee after Thursday's play ... interesting that he pulled out of Friday's scrimmage. Pretty good sign that he knows where he's going.

Well, that's good. I'd hate to see him declare against the advice of the NBA scouts. Pulling out of the Friday scrimmage is a good sign, for sure.

OZZIE4DUKE
05-12-2017, 04:15 PM
[Redacted]. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

johnb
05-12-2017, 04:21 PM
Frank is a 6'2" shooting guard. How many of those thrive in the NBA? He's very athletic, but he's no DeMarcus Nelson, who was a 6'4" beast who never really made it in the NBA.

Was he facing a reality that, next year, he'd be the 3rd guard behind Grayson and Duvall?

Who knows? I would be shocked, however, that any team would "guarantee" a first round pick. I guess Utah could have promised him a 2nd round pick with guaranteed money, which presumably means that K and Quin had a chat about Frank's long-term possibilities, but even that I doubt: how do they know that Giles, say, doesn't slip to their 2nd round pick--if that's the case, I imagine, their "guarantee" is out the window.

Whatever. Duke will be fun to watch, but I am with the crowd that is bored by the annual turnover.

Avvocato
05-12-2017, 04:23 PM
I'm not going to give you grief, but I still disagree with your opinion. Lots of time left to fill out the roster and lots of talent already on the roster. While it would have been nice for Jackson to return this isn't a "woe is Duke" moment. We will be okay with or without Duval, hopefully with.

I am totally in this corner. Congrats to Frank and good luck. Duke will still be fine. Without another recruit, Duke will have Allen, Bolden, Carter and Trent, all highly ranked players, let alone O'Connell, Vrankovich, White, DeLaurier and possibly Duval and/or Tucker. Coach K took about 5-6 guys two years ago to the Sweet 16. What he does is see what he has, and develops his team around the players he has. Don't have a true point guard, don't need one. We'll play this way. We have a low post guy (e.g., Okafor), we'll play this way. No center, we'll play this way. That's what he does best. While we all would love to have 9-10 all americas every year and play them all, it's okay if we don't (K hasn't recently played that many anyway, as we know). What we have is still more talent than most.

I am just as frustrated by the craziness of this OAD era. It's tough when players leave after a year or two. I think 2015 caught K by surprise when he lost Jones and Winslow. I'm not sure he expected one or both to leave after their freshmen years, and it left us bare in 2015-16. I think he has tried to recruit some longer-term guys to complement the expected OAD candidates (e.g., DeLaurier, Vrank, White, I'm sure he thought Kennard was in that category, etc.). But it's also hard to know when guys will leave early. I don't think anyone came into this year thinking Kennard was gone after his sophomore year. However, following up the above, it's another reason why K is so great. He basically has to rebuild his team every year, and going into the season, he doesn't know what he has in half his roster. Last year, we all thought we would have something in Giles, Bolden, etc. We hoped Jeter would be ready out of the gate the year before. Sometimes you get 2015 and freshmen are ready out of the gate, sometimes you don't. Most young players aren't able to pick up the D at the Division 1 level right away. He's constantly starting from scratch. But when the dust settles, we always (knock on wood) have 25+ wins, we're fighting for top seeds, championships, etc. Ol' Roy is a great coach (cough), but God forbid he doesn't have a point guard to run his system, and the whole team collapses. K always adapts and finds a way.

That's my long way of saying that we will be fine. It's always great to have as much talent as possible. It's great to watch our young talent develop. But we have plenty of talent and the best coach in college basketball, if not in all of sports. We will be fine. We will be better than fine.

Jeffrey
05-12-2017, 04:23 PM
Excuse me, gotta run, I smell smoke coming from Durham...:mad:

It's a wind shift. Evidence continues to be rapidly burned in Chapel Hill.

DukeWarhead
05-12-2017, 04:25 PM
wow...sad to see so many here disparaging frank's future. :( how can you begrudge the kid a chance to go make millions of dollars and play in the league? that's jus spiteful....and selfish..


frank showed up at duke and did his part....disappointed? sure....i would have loved to see him come back and dominate, but having a shot at the league? shoot, take that and run like crazy, frank!!!

1. If a player can be selfish and bolt the team for a chance at millions (which they can), then its probably okay for fans to be selfish and opine that he would stay.
2. His chance to make millions from this draft is highly questionable, that's why nobody begrudged Tatum, who will.
3. I don't see too many people wishing ill on him. I see a lot of people questioning the decision since the NBA is not a sure thing at this point and disappointed that Frank doesn't seem to want to stick around a la Grayson last year. That's not spite.
4. It's spilled milk and won't matter come October. Whatever happens to next years team will be determined by the players that chose to play for Duke next season. I didn't see anybody blaming Derryck for us losing to South Carolina in the tourney.

Billy Dat
05-12-2017, 04:25 PM
Good luck, Frank. I was hoping you'd be this year's sophomore breakout but that will have to be Marques..or Javin...or Jack....maybe all 3.

There's definitely a sea change going on with one-and-done's, I don't think it's just us noticing it since the program fully adopted this model. Kentucky will be as inexperienced as ever in the Cal era due to losing their top 8, they've never had that level of attrition. With the new NBA salary cap, and the improvement in the DLeague, young guys on cheap rookie contracts are valuable commodities. Teams are willing to sign a guy to a $500K contract and stash him in the DLeague so he doesn't take up a roster spot but also doesn't damage their cap. Also, you've got the relatively new trend of guys not hurting their draft stock by under-performing in college. The likely #1 pick, Mr. Fultz, was a 3rd team All American whose team did not make the NCAAs. The correlation between college achievement and NBA value has shrinking importance. Guys like Frank who gave everyone a taste and still have huge perceived untapped UPSIDE now strike when the iron is hottest.

The two sports the compete with pro sports for attention and dollars - football and basketball - have avoided the fate of college baseball and hockey for two reasons - March Madness for basketball and lack of one-and-done phenomenon in football. But, as many have pointed out, if the guys who turn out to be NBA stars increasingly aren't a big part of March Madness, that, too, will take a hit.

K's years are numbered, but with the recent pursuit of 3 and 4 star players, it looks like he's calibrating. It's tough to watch UNC's success the past two years, but let's see how long they can walk that line.

lotusland
05-12-2017, 04:26 PM
[Redacted]. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Wait aren't you supposed to be the paradigm of optimism? That seems a bit cynical.

Jeffrey
05-12-2017, 04:32 PM
I'd agree that another year at Duke would make him better prepared to stick in the league but that is a different metric than draft potential .

Yep, the more important Will Avery metric.

Troublemaker
05-12-2017, 04:33 PM
I doubt NBA teams guarantee picks. If so they aren't very smart



Who knows? I would be shocked, however, that any team would "guarantee" a first round pick.

Guarantees are real things, guys. I'd post links but I trust you can use the google.


Wait aren't you supposed to be the paradigm of optimism? That seems a bit cynical.

Ozzie is probably still very optimistic about the team. He's just not apparently in the mood to congratulate Frank.

Kedsy
05-12-2017, 04:37 PM
(I'm looking at you, Kedsy :D)

I stand by it. He wasn't that good a shooter his freshman year. I also said that as the game slowed down for him, his shooting might improve in subsequent years. And it did, though admittedly faster than I expected.

Jeffrey
05-12-2017, 04:37 PM
Wait aren't you supposed to be the paradigm of optimism? That seems a bit cynical.

OZZIE is 4DUKE.

mph
05-12-2017, 04:39 PM
Wait aren't you supposed to be the paradigm of optimism? That seems a bit cynical.

Agree. I don't get the negativity. Bye to Jason and Harry too? What about Kyrie, Jabari, Tyus, et al? Last season was brutal but I appreciate the effort Frank gave us and enjoyed watching him while he was with us. I wish we had him with us for another year but we don't. So, best wishes on your NBA career Frank!

Kedsy
05-12-2017, 04:44 PM
I remind y'all that I caught grief for saying the team was burning to ashes a while back...Everyone was certain we had Knox..Nope. Now many are certain we are gonna get Duval. Maybe so..Maybe we should have developed a bench a bit more. I don't blame people for chasing the big money, but it sucks the way college ball is rapidly turning to crap. Excuse me, gotta run, I smell smoke coming from Durham...:mad:

It would surprise me if you don't catch even more grief for this post, which deserves it just as much as your previous one.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
05-12-2017, 04:50 PM
Profoundly disappointing. My engagement in Duke basketball slips ever further.


Best of luck GGLC!

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
05-12-2017, 04:51 PM
I remind y'all that I caught grief for saying the team was burning to ashes a while back...Everyone was certain we had Knox..Nope. Now many are certain we are gonna get Duval. Maybe so..Maybe we should have developed a bench a bit more. I don't blame people for chasing the big money, but it sucks the way college ball is rapidly turning to crap. Excuse me, gotta run, I smell smoke coming from Durham...:mad:

Best of luck, Devilwin!

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
05-12-2017, 04:53 PM
I pride myself in being overly positive about any member of the Duke basketball brotherhood. I also can't imagine what goes on inside of an 18 year old kid's mind when an NBA executive tells him he'll be drafted.

But this is stupid. Plain, ugly, and grossly stupid. I wish for him nothing but success, but I would be lying if I said I will care when (if?) he fails miserably in the never ending cycle of D-league.

Bye.

Best of luck, ndkjr70!

sagegrouse
05-12-2017, 04:54 PM
I remind y'all that I caught grief for saying the team was burning to ashes a while back...Everyone was certain we had Knox..Nope. Now many are certain we are gonna get Duval. Maybe so..Maybe we should have developed a bench a bit more. I don't blame people for chasing the big money, but it sucks the way college ball is rapidly turning to crap. Excuse me, gotta run, I smell smoke coming from Durham...:mad:

Naw, it's wafting over from Chapel Hill.

But, seriously, shouldn't you be called "Devil-lose?"

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
05-12-2017, 04:54 PM
I've never been more disappointed with a decision by a Duke player ever.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out Frank.

Best of luck, DukeTrinity11!

bob blue devil
05-12-2017, 05:04 PM
It would surprise me if you don't catch even more grief for this post, which deserves it just as much as your previous one.

well, i'll leave it to someone else this time. i'm done feeding the troll.

bob blue devil
05-12-2017, 05:05 PM
congrats to frank, by the way. i'm happy for him (assuming he's getting good advice, which i have no reason to believe otherwise).

DukeWarhead
05-12-2017, 05:13 PM
Agree. I don't get the negativity. Bye to Jason and Harry too? What about Kyrie, Jabari, Tyus, et al? !

All those other you mention (except Tyus) were/are sure-fire first rounders. Most analysts say that Frank is not. So, some negativity is expected when one of your players decides to take a long shot on the draft rather than stick around. All the congratulations at this point confuses me, I suppose. Congrats for what? Taking a risk? If he gets drafted and makes a team, then I'll be happy to say congrats. Seems premature right now.

Doria
05-12-2017, 05:20 PM
Well, I'll give the benefit of the doubt and say he's probably making the best decision he can with the best available information. But regardless of if that's true, good luck, Frank! Thanks for your time at Duke, and I hope it all works out the way you hope!

duke74
05-12-2017, 05:25 PM
Best of luck, DukeTrinity11!

Ding ding ding...you win the snark award for this thread. Congrats.

Geesh.

IFUSTABMEDOINOTBLEEDBLUE
05-12-2017, 05:25 PM
Thank goodness Frank made a decision based on how it benefits him and his family and not how it benefits you.

Give me a break its not like Frank was eating crumbs and his family lived in the remains of an old outhouse. Good luck Frank...sitting on pine and playing maybe in the D league at best. You will make money so save and spend it frugally. Some of these guys leave I believe out of impatience and lack of respect for the academic gift they are given and instead yearn for the fat juicy cheddar of an NBA payout. Enjoy and good riddance.

BigZ
05-12-2017, 05:39 PM
Isn't benefit of being successful not living in Utah

ndkjr70
05-12-2017, 05:40 PM
Best of luck, ndkjr70!

Not sure what this ridiculous comment is supposed to mean, but I'm actually sitting for my final ARE exam tomorrow morning and need all the luck I can get. Thanks babe!

miramar
05-12-2017, 05:51 PM
I wish Frank all the best, but I never expected a freshman to transfer because he wasn't getting quite enough playing time, as occurred last year with Thornton, or to declare for the draft even though he could be taken in the second round.

Things are changing in an unexpected fashion, so maybe we have to recruit parents and handlers first and players second, or go after more four star recruits.

Then again DeCourcy may be right that this may end up being the best thing for all involved:

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/news/frank-jackson-nba-draft-duke-trevon-duval-recruiting-point-guard-grayson-allen/1dp2t44he6nz6179nctjz7eppc

kAzE
05-12-2017, 05:58 PM
Then again DeCourcy may be right that this may end up being the best thing for all involved:

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/news/frank-jackson-nba-draft-duke-trevon-duval-recruiting-point-guard-grayson-allen/1dp2t44he6nz6179nctjz7eppc

This article is total BS.


There likely was not going to be room for both of them on next year's roster

Are you kidding me? There's like 3 guards on the roster left, and one of them is a 3 star incoming freshman. There's no freaking way Frank Jackson would have affected Duval's role as the lead guard.

brlftz
05-12-2017, 06:01 PM
Give me a break its not like Frank was eating crumbs and his family lived in the remains of an old outhouse. Good luck Frank...sitting on pine and playing maybe in the D league at best. You will make money so save and spend it frugally. Some of these guys leave I believe out of impatience and lack of respect for the academic gift they are given and instead yearn for the fat juicy cheddar of an NBA payout. Enjoy and good riddance.

Because the rest of us graduated and were hired as CEOs

GGLC
05-12-2017, 06:05 PM
Best of luck GGLC!

Thanks! For what? In what? To what? With what?

scottdude8
05-12-2017, 06:06 PM
As a Duke fan this decision is frustrating. As a fan of Frank I'm happy he apparently believes he'll be a first round pick in the draft. I've said it before and I'll say it again, in the OAD era I will never begrudge a player leaving early if they know they'll be a first round pick. That being said there seems to be a disconnect between what mock drafts and experts are saying about Frank's stock and what he seems to be hearing, so I'm a little nervous he may be getting some questionable information or advice. I really hope I'm wrong on that front.

Now, assuming we land Duval I'm not all doom and gloom about next season. With Duval, our starting lineup is still that of a Top-10 team and ACC contender if we can adjust to playing with two bigs. I have no doubt that we can and that such a strategy can work, which UNC showed last year. It'll be nice to be the team (potentially) dominating the glass and making it hard for opposing teams to drive for once.

The key then becomes whether White, Delaurier, or a potential other recruit can come in and give us 10 solid mpg off the bench as a traditional SF to allow the assumed starting guards (Duval, Allen and Trent) a rest. I think Vrank will be a capable third big. The development of someone into a solid sixth man will be the difference between an average team and a potential contender.

This sucks for us as fans, no doubt. But I remain optimistic about next year considering every other ACC contender also is experiencing significant attrition. And no one else has K or Grayson.

FadedTackyShirt
05-12-2017, 06:06 PM
Best of luck to Frank and thanks for your contribution to Duke. Despise the OAD rule, but understand why many players leave as soon as they project in the top 20-25 picks. Higher than that seems risky.

Was taken aback by the prior ire directed at Luke, but his draft position seems safer than Frank's. Firmly believe the 2018 team would have been better with Frank, so definitely bummed. Just not enough to lash out at someone else's professional decision with minimal understanding of their personal variables and constraints.

Stoked that Grayson returned since I think it's a win/win for both Grayson and Duke. Lashing out at Frank and Luke surprised me, but so did the reaction to Bolden returning. Pretty clear that many players/recruits (Frank, Bolden, Knox) view the NBA as the final destination and college as a bothersome impediment to getting there as soon as possible.

Everyone's entitled to their own values, but doesn't make them ideal Duke student athletes. Barring NBA draft eligibility changes, there won't be any more Grant Hills or Shane Battiers.

Furniture
05-12-2017, 06:31 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/kylegoon/status/863140526341619714/video/1
How can anyone feel bad about this kid?
Congrats Frank and all the best on your journey.

Furniture
05-12-2017, 06:57 PM
http://www.heraldsun.com/sports/college/acc/duke/article150269512.html

IFUSTABMEDOINOTBLEEDBLUE
05-12-2017, 06:59 PM
http://www.heraldsun.com/sports/college/acc/duke/article150269512.html

Like he would do anything but that...I feel like Tanner Boyle in Bad News Bears..."you can keep your cruddy compliments..and......"

NashvilleDevil
05-12-2017, 07:12 PM
Give me a break its not like Frank was eating crumbs and his family lived in the remains of an old outhouse. Good luck Frank...sitting on pine and playing maybe in the D league at best. You will make money so save and spend it frugally. Some of these guys leave I believe out of impatience and lack of respect for the academic gift they are given and instead yearn for the fat juicy cheddar of an NBA payout. Enjoy and good riddance.

Yeah let's talk bad about an 18 year old kid pursuing his dream. Negativity towards this kid by many posters is asinine.

CharlestonDave
05-12-2017, 07:19 PM
congrats to frank, by the way. i'm happy for him (assuming he's getting good advice, which i have no reason to believe otherwise).

I can understand being happy for him , but why the Congrats ? I understand that OAD is the way college basketball is being played today , but it sucks. We all knew certain players like Ingram, Tatum, Giles were going to be OAD but did anyone of you think that Jackson would be one ? How about Kennard being a TAD ? Did anyone foree that ?

Maybe it is time to develop a league where high school seniors can go directly there instead of wasting everyone's time for one year and then leaving . Give their spot to someone who really wants an education , these OAD and TAD couldn't care less about a college education. Sure , a few come back to get a degree but that is rare and I am not just talking about Duke and their OADs, I am talking about all the OADs . It has become a joke.

IFUSTABMEDOINOTBLEEDBLUE
05-12-2017, 07:26 PM
Yeah let's talk bad about an 18 year old kid pursuing his dream. Negativity towards this kid by many posters is asinine.

Okay 18 years old means he's a big boy...so stop already with the kid...he can sign a contract and hire an agent so treating him as though he is fragile and in need of protection is silly. As for pursuing his dream good luck on that...seriously..no one wishes him ill will....its just we have seen this song and dance a few times before and Frank is bound for a D-league or bench seat for quite awhile..so if that is his specific dream then he will be where he needs to be. Will he have money yes.....will he play much....NO...did he need to improve quite a bit and risk little coming back save for the big old scare tactic of "what if he gets hurt"...only that applies to everything he does prior to getting drafted or signing anything.

CDu
05-12-2017, 07:46 PM
Yes, the highlighted is the appreviation in question.

Devilwin
05-12-2017, 07:55 PM
I think I said I cannot blame these kids for chasing the big bucks, ND. It's the NBA I have a beef with. And I want to know about all this "enormous talent" we have now. Grayson for downright certain.
Bolden (who may become a super rim protector), and two unproven freshmen (albeit with talent), an unproven bench, and a couple more we don't have yet.
To me, that's shaky at best. We get Duval and Tucker, then the picture clears a bit. But until I see them in the fold, safe and secure, I remain somewhat pessimistic.
Of course I wish Frank the best, but being a fan foremost of Duke basketball, I am not going to go all gaga congratulating him.
To me it's Duke first. Sorry if my opinion does not sit well with some, but I believe I am still allowed my opinion in this country...

MChambers
05-12-2017, 08:04 PM
Like most posters here, I wish Frank all the best in his NBA career and don't begrudge him going pro now. I am surprised, because I don't really think he's ready, but I'm just a fan, and not a pro scout.

The system does bother me, and I think it should change, but I'm not optimistic. Like others, I find myself less and less interested in college basketball, because so many of the players are there for such a short period. And I don't care about the NBA. I just don't. I try to watch the games, but I find them close to unwatchable.

Devilwin
05-12-2017, 08:12 PM
Like most posters here, I wish Frank all the best in his NBA career and don't begrudge him going pro now. I am surprised, because I don't really think he's ready, but I'm just a fan, and not a pro scout.

The system does bother me, and I think it should change, but I'm not optimistic. Like others, I find myself less and less interested in college basketball, because so many of the players are there for such a short period. And I don't care about the NBA. I just don't. I try to watch the games, but I find them close to unwatchable.

Amen! The truth shall set you free!

bob blue devil
05-12-2017, 08:18 PM
I can understand being happy for him , but why the Congrats ?

umm... because he's put himself in a position to take the next big step in achieving his goals. why wouldn't you congratulate the guy? :confused:

GGLC
05-12-2017, 08:20 PM
I can understand being happy for him , but why the Congrats ? I understand that OAD is the way college basketball is being played today , but it sucks. We all knew certain players like Ingram, Tatum, Giles were going to be OAD but did anyone of you think that Jackson would be one ? How about Kennard being a TAD ? Did anyone foree that ?

Maybe it is time to develop a league where high school seniors can go directly there instead of wasting everyone's time for one year and then leaving . Give their spot to someone who really wants an education , these OAD and TAD couldn't care less about a college education. Sure , a few come back to get a degree but that is rare and I am not just talking about Duke and their OADs, I am talking about all the OADs . It has become a joke.

Excellently put.

Dukehky
05-12-2017, 08:31 PM
College basketball just sucks.

The product is terrible overall. The past 3 years the best teams best offense has been to miss a shot and put it in on an offensive rebound (UNC, UNC, and UK [they were better than Duke in 2015 overall, think we may have won 1 game though]).

Whether it's the one and done rule or the fact that it's everyone's goal to get the the NBA (part of that is that the NBA is doing so much better as a league than it was between Jordan and peak Lebron). But the teams that have older players don't have lots of super talented older players, and those super talented players are there for 1 year and then bounce before they get really, really good.

I don't watch any other games other than Duke's anymore because the product is so terrible. I still love Duke basketball and the players, but it's really frustrating.

Also, I hope all the kids that left are very successful, but I haven't felt as down about things since the spring of 09, only we had 3 seniors and 2 juniors coming back. Now we have Grayson and people who have played less than 100 minutes in their Duke careers. So... fun!



Also, I don't buy Frank's not being scared off by Duval and Grayson returning. and I think it's more to do with the people in his ear than with him. I think they're afraid he won't get any shine and waste a year and end up being a 3/4 year guy which apparently is some freaking tragedy. Our 3 perimeter player teams are pretty good historically. Dunleavy, Williams, Duhon...

I hate the Cubs for winning the World Series and starting this trend of tragedies.

DukeFanSince1990
05-12-2017, 08:33 PM
To those critical of Frank: He has a chance to be set for life. Anyone of us in his position would do the same.

Frank didn't have to come to Duke.

Thanks Frank and rep Duke well in the NBA.

heyman25
05-12-2017, 08:42 PM
Al Jackson has an unrealistic view of his son's current status as an NBA prospect. Hope he likes riding on buses, that's his life for the next couple years. I do think he'll have a solid career, but if it took Quinn and Seth 2-3 years to get a guaranteed contract, I don't think Frank's getting one right away.

I don't think Utah will take him in round 1 either. I know he's from Utah, but teams don't make decisions based on home town guys, at least good teams (See Charlotte Hornets).

Tyus Jones played sparingly in 1st 2 years. Jackson has raw talent,but to me it seems like a huge gamble. He would get more media at Duke.He is in the news today, but may disappear in the D-League. The NBA has more depth at guard than the front court. There are also 8 or 9 better guards in the draft. Good luck to Frank, but Tatum and Giles are more likely to have success. Harry needs to have no more injuries. He could evolve into a Myles Turner or Nerlens Noel type. Frank had a good 1st half @ the Combine. Big deal it is not.He was very inconsistent at Duke. How will he do guarding Russell Westbrook or James Harden or Klay Thompson? Most 2 guards are 6'5 or taller in the NBA. If Frank works really hard on his game,he may surprise me and stick for a few years or more.

miramar
05-12-2017, 08:52 PM
Because the rest of us graduated and were hired as CEOs

I don't know about anyone else, but I graduated with Considerable Economic Obligations and it took me years to pay them off.

Fortunately, it was well worth the expense.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
05-12-2017, 08:55 PM
Thanks! For what? In what? To what? With what?

Good luck to you and everyone else who is disgusted and disappointed with Duke basketball. I wish you all the best with your next endeavor.

I mean it in the same spirit as wishing Frank well as he also moves on with his life and career.

Everyone else, see you in the fall.

subzero02
05-12-2017, 09:05 PM
Good luck to you and everyone else who is disgusted and disappointed with Duke basketball. I wish you all the best with your next endeavor.

I mean it in the same spirit as wishing Frank well as he also moves on with his life and career.

Everyone else, see you in the fall.

I will say that I am becoming more interested in dleague basketball each year. Giles could log more minutes in the dleague than he did at Duke.

tulsuduke
05-12-2017, 09:19 PM
He's taking a calculated risk, but he's got the physical tools to succeed. Perhaps he figures being able to work on his game as a full time professional will be more beneficial to him than as a collegiate.

I think he'll find his way into the bottom of the first round, maybe to a team like San Antonio or Brooklyn. Brooklyn would be a good fit.

The odds of him making money as a pro basketball player for a long time, whether it's in the NBA or abroad, are still very good.

GGLC
05-12-2017, 09:31 PM
Good luck to you and everyone else who is disgusted and disappointed with Duke basketball. I wish you all the best with your next endeavor.

I mean it in the same spirit as wishing Frank well as he also moves on with his life and career.

Everyone else, see you in the fall.

Oh. I take back my thanks, then; it doesn't seem like you were being sincere.

DukeWarhead
05-12-2017, 09:32 PM
To those critical of Frank: He has a chance to be set for life. Anyone of us in his position would do the same.

Frank didn't have to come to Duke.

Thanks Frank and rep Duke well in the NBA.


How many DLeague players are "set for life?" Speak for yourself.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
05-12-2017, 09:34 PM
Oh. I take back my thanks, then; it doesn't seem like you were being sincere.

You certainly don't have to accept my wishes of good luck, but they are sincere.

Seems we will have a small message board in 2017-2018.

GGLC
05-12-2017, 09:57 PM
You certainly don't have to accept my wishes of good luck, but they are sincere.

Seems we will have a small message board in 2017-2018.

For all you know, my engagement in Duke basketball, though lessened progressively by the recent roster churn and the anti-karmic success of the hated Heels, is still higher than yours! It started from a tall, tall peak.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
05-12-2017, 10:07 PM
For all you know, my engagement in Duke basketball, though lessened progressively by the recent roster churn and the anti-karmic success of the hated Heels, is still higher than yours! It started from a tall, tall peak.

I am not sure how this interaction is supposed to end.

I don't see the lightheartedness in disparaging the Duke program or Duke players, regardless of any perceived slight.

Good luck with your other endeavors though, truly. It is not mine to dictate how others choose to articulate their fandom.

Coballs
05-12-2017, 10:15 PM
Best of luck to Frank. I can't begrudge him for make a business decision that he believes is in his own best interest. It's his career and he owes nothing to us or to Duke. As far as I'm aware, he never mislead anyone or made any guarantees that he would come back to Duke next year. At the same time, this is when I stop caring what becomes of his career. If he gets drafted highly I won't be celebrating, and should he fall deep in the second round or go undrafted then I'm not losing any sleep. He's most likely a great kid but I don't know him personally and I find it very difficult to generate any genuine appreciation for someone who drops their bags on campus for one year before heading off for greener pastures. The NCAA to NBA process has become a complete joke and as a result the sport of college basketball is suffering and is most likely broken beyond repair. For the most talented players, attending college is nothing more than a springboard for getting to the next level and has little to do with obtaining an education or representing their university. By this time next year we'll already have bid farewell to Wendell Carter and most likely Trevon Duval as well...two players who are still several months away from enrolling in school and whom most of us have never even seen play. I'm finding it increasingly difficult to care about any team or sport where the best players' careers last no longer than 4 months.

DukeWarhead
05-12-2017, 10:42 PM
Best of luck to Frank. I can't begrudge him for make a business decision that he believes is in his own best interest. It's his career and he owes nothing to us or to Duke. As far as I'm aware, he never mislead anyone or made any guarantees that he would come back to Duke next year. At the same time, this is when I stop caring what becomes of his career. If he gets drafted highly I won't be celebrating, and should he fall deep in the second round or go undrafted then I'm not losing any sleep. He's most likely a great kid but I don't know him personally and I find it very difficult to generate any genuine appreciation for someone who drops their bags on campus for one year before heading off for greener pastures... I'm finding it increasingly difficult to care about any team or sport where the best players' careers last no longer than 4 months.

Word. Agreed.

subzero02
05-12-2017, 11:11 PM
Word. Agreed.

Since Christensen's 10 year stint, our Mormon retention rate has really fallen off.

wallyman
05-12-2017, 11:32 PM
Also makes it ever harder to buy into the
pleasant fiction that these are college kids and
real students -- and Duke students at that. Not a
lot of difference between the Duke one and dones
and the Kentucky one and dones. I'm with Coballs.
Don't begrudge Jackson his millions, assuming he
gets to the league now or later. But not much reason to follow his career any more than Monk or Bam. Tatum was a no brainer. Giles would have been crazy to risk another knee surgery playing for free. Wish him all the best. Jackson may
sneak into first round or enjoy the good life in the
D League for a while, but he clearly didn't want a second year at Duke. His choice. Best of luck. Next play. Probably not a bad thing to be in danger of being less invested in the sporting achievements of teenagers you'll never know.

duke4ever19
05-12-2017, 11:47 PM
Good luck to you and everyone else who is disgusted and disappointed with Duke basketball. I wish you all the best with your next endeavor.

I mean it in the same spirit as wishing Frank well as he also moves on with his life and career.

Everyone else, see you in the fall.

Did you know I can feel happy for Frank and also feel a bit angry at Frank for not coming back all at the same time? Humans are a bundle of contradictions and paradoxes. I feel how I feel, Mtn.Devil.

Is DBR a place I can express my disappointment with an early departure? Is DBR a place where someone can say, "Ugh He's leaving early too?! I'm so bummed right now that my enthusiasm for Duke basketball has taken a bit of a hit." Is DBR a place where I can wonder aloud about the state of Duke basketball and the college game after said departure, even if I rethink things the next day and change my mind?

If it is, then I will stay. If it isn't, then let me know and I'll go elsewhere.

homebre
05-12-2017, 11:53 PM
Did you know I can feel happy for Frank and also feel a bit angry at Frank for not coming back all at the same time? Humans are a bundle of contradictions and paradoxes. I feel how I feel, Mtn.Devil.

Is DBR a place I can express my disappointment with an early departure? Is DBR a place where someone can say, "Ugh He's leaving early too?! I'm so bummed right now that my enthusiasm for Duke basketball has taken a bit of a hit." Is DBR a place where I can wonder aloud about the state of Duke basketball and the college game after said departure, even if I rethink things the next day and change my mind?

If it is, then I will stay. If it isn't, then let me know and I'll go elsewhere.

If the NBA allowed the kids to go right into the NBA or D-league (maybe they can?), they wouldn't be ruining college basketball. I am not enjoying Duke basketball as much as used to. I am a 1971 Alum and have followed Duke since 1967. I don't really care if Mamba or Duval or whoever comes to Duke if they are going to be OAD. At least Luke stayed for 2 years, and I will always remember Grayson, Matt, and Jefferson for what they brought to Duke. I would rather lose more games with 4 year players then expect to win every game with OAD's. They are rentals not students.

Duke '71

Furniture
05-13-2017, 12:39 AM
The second highest vertical jump of the week belongs to @FWJackson15 (https://mobile.twitter.com/FWJackson15) with an unofficial mark of 42.00! #NBACombine (https://mobile.twitter.com/hashtag/NBACombine?src=hash)

https://mobile.twitter.com/NBADraft/status/863130384548208640

Furniture
05-13-2017, 12:54 AM
http://dukereport.com/duke-basketball/frank-jackson-nba-andrew-bailey-olojede/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

A: Jackson’s an impressive athlete, and if he can show that in workouts and the combine (some just don’t have athleticism that translates to such specific tests), I think he can work his way into the middle of the first round. I think the conservative estimate would probably be late first, though. Could he find a more stable projection after another year in college? Maybe. A huge sophomore season, especially as a creator and passer, might be more enticing to lottery teams. But the chance of injury or a drop in stock looms too. If I was in his camp, I’d advise taking the jump.

Ian
05-13-2017, 01:08 AM
If the NBA allowed the kids to go right into the NBA or D-league (maybe they can?), they wouldn't be ruining college basketball. I am not enjoying Duke basketball as much as used to. I am a 1971 Alum and have followed Duke since 1967. I don't really care if Mamba or Duval or whoever comes to Duke if they are going to be OAD. At least Luke stayed for 2 years, and I will always remember Grayson, Matt, and Jefferson for what they brought to Duke. I would rather lose more games with 4 year players then expect to win every game with OAD's. They are rentals not students.

Duke '71

I'm with you. I know not everyone here feels this way but I am actually rooting against Duval and Bamba coming here at this point. The OADs are like a narcotic, at any moment it might seem like getting one is the only way out of one's problem, hence the "We NEED Duval" talk, "If we just get him we'd be contenders", but more likely than not they just create more problems down the road, and a year down the line we'll all be feeling empty and disappointed, but immediately ready to snort the next line, "we NEED (whoever the next OAD is), if we just get him we'd be contenders".

I'd prefer we just quit this cold turkey and say "no more", let's get players here who really want to be here instead of those who see Duke as an inconvenience they are forced to put up with until they are draft eligible. Go back to building the Duke program and stop annually assembling NBA prospects showcase teams.

Coballs
05-13-2017, 02:02 AM
I'm with you. I know not everyone here feels this way but I am actually rooting against Duval and Bamba coming here at this point. The OADs are like a narcotic, at any moment it might seem like getting one is the only way out of one's problem, hence the "We NEED Duval" talk, "If we just get him we'd be contenders", but more likely than not they just create more problems down the road, and a year down the line we'll all be feeling empty and disappointed, but immediately ready to snort the next line, "we NEED (whoever the next OAD is), if we just get him we'd be contenders".

I'd prefer we just quit this cold turkey and say "no more", let's get players here who really want to be here instead of those who see Duke as an inconvenience they are forced to put up with until they are draft eligible. Go back to building the Duke program and stop annually assembling NBA prospects showcase teams.

And this accurately sums up the pathetic state of college basketball. We're at the point where many fans no longer want the top players and best possible talent to come to Duke.

Coballs
05-13-2017, 02:15 AM
I'm with you. I know not everyone here feels this way but I am actually rooting against Duval and Bamba coming here at this point. The OADs are like a narcotic, at any moment it might seem like getting one is the only way out of one's problem, hence the "We NEED Duval" talk, "If we just get him we'd be contenders", but more likely than not they just create more problems down the road, and a year down the line we'll all be feeling empty and disappointed, but immediately ready to snort the next line, "we NEED (whoever the next OAD is), if we just get him we'd be contenders".

I'd prefer we just quit this cold turkey and say "no more", let's get players here who really want to be here instead of those who see Duke as an inconvenience they are forced to put up with until they are draft eligible. Go back to building the Duke program and stop annually assembling NBA prospects showcase teams.

Well Bamba isn't coming to Duke, so I don't think you have much to worry about there. But without Duval, what is the starting 5 and who plays point? Duval is now an absolute necessity, not just because of his elite talent but because we need to put a complete team out on the floor.

ndkjr70
05-13-2017, 06:03 AM
Well Bamba isn't coming to Duke, so I don't think you have much to worry about there.

Neat! You work for the team? Can't believe they let you post info like this.

NSDukeFan
05-13-2017, 06:47 AM
I'm with you. I know not everyone here feels this way but I am actually rooting against Duval and Bamba coming here at this point. The OADs are like a narcotic, at any moment it might seem like getting one is the only way out of one's problem, hence the "We NEED Duval" talk, "If we just get him we'd be contenders", but more likely than not they just create more problems down the road, and a year down the line we'll all be feeling empty and disappointed, but immediately ready to snort the next line, "we NEED (whoever the next OAD is), if we just get him we'd be contenders".

I'd prefer we just quit this cold turkey and say "no more", let's get players here who really want to be here instead of those who see Duke as an inconvenience they are forced to put up with until they are draft eligible. Go back to building the Duke program and stop annually assembling NBA prospects showcase teams.

As a college basketball fan, and specifically a Duke fan, I understand preferring players stay longer, but do we believe that if Matt Jones or Amile Jefferson or Antonio Vrankovic or Christian Laettner had the chance to go in the NBA draft in the present day that any of them would stay? Blame the system or situation, but almost all players would prefer to be in the NBA making millions given the choice. You can certainly argue the staff might be better off recruiting less talented players so that the players are more likely to stay four years, but don't assume those players "want" to be at Duke more than OADs, they just don't have another option.

wallyman
05-13-2017, 07:06 AM
And this accurately sums up the pathetic state of college basketball. We're at the point where many fans no longer want the top players and best possible talent to come to Duke.

Ehhhh. Not too many. Jackson wasn't projected as a one and done. You really wish we didn't have Jayson Tatum last year? I'm disappointed Jackson left, but if he goes first round, he made the right decision for him. It's a lousy system but if you're Duke, you can't not want the best players who can do the academics, if only for a year. And where would you draw the line? Jah/Jabari talent? Justise/Jackson? No way to win that game.

Tripping William
05-13-2017, 07:56 AM
As a college basketball fan, and specifically a Duke fan, I understand preferring players stay longer, but do we believe that if Matt Jones or Amile Jefferson or Antonio Vrankovic or Christian Laettner had the chance to go in the NBA draft in the present day that any of them would stay? Blame the system or situation, but almost all players would prefer to be in the NBA making millions given the choice. You can certainly argue the staff might be better off recruiting less talented players so that the players are more likely to stay four years, but don't assume those players "want" to be at Duke more than OADs, they just don't have another option.

You are one of my favorite posters on DBR, but I think Grayson Allen (and his expressed reasons for staying) may be evidence that counters your point here.

Would have like for Frank to stay, but wish him the best in his professional pursuits.

lotusland
05-13-2017, 08:18 AM
I'm with you. I know not everyone here feels this way but I am actually rooting against Duval and Bamba coming here at this point. The OADs are like a narcotic, at any moment it might seem like getting one is the only way out of one's problem, hence the "We NEED Duval" talk, "If we just get him we'd be contenders", but more likely than not they just create more problems down the road, and a year down the line we'll all be feeling empty and disappointed, but immediately ready to snort the next line, "we NEED (whoever the next OAD is), if we just get him we'd be contenders".

I'd prefer we just quit this cold turkey and say "no more", let's get players here who really want to be here instead of those who see Duke as an inconvenience they are forced to put up with until they are draft eligible. Go back to building the Duke program and stop annually assembling NBA prospects showcase teams.

I'm with you to a point. I think a change in recruiting philosophy is needed but really just around the edges so to speak. We didn't need Bolden last year. He wasn't really even a luxury. He just shouldn't have been recruited after we got Tatum and Giles with Jeter and Amile back. I think K needs to worry as much about keeping the guys we have as bringing in the next batch of OAD. I'm really glad Bolden is back but not more glad than if Jeter was still here. Likewise with Knox we would not need Bamba . We still don't need Bamba but without Knox, both he and Bolden would play. It would be at the expense of Vrank, Javin and Jack though. Maybe Duke would be slightly better this year but the program would be less stable and worse off for the future if those 3 guys leave. If it's just 100% Darwinian struggle every year the 3-4 year guys won't be here 3-4 years. It takes a little restraint when we are recruiting at the level we've been recruiting at. That probably will resolve itself as I'm not sure it can be sustained. The challenge too is that you can't know who's OAD every year. We thought Grayson would be gone but Frank and Luke would be here. Tatum and Giles were OAD players who may have gone straight from HS if allowed. Bolden was thought of as likely OAD too but maybe not quite as certain. It's not an easy balance but 2 sure OAD should be the max in order to maintain some roster stability. Beyond that we'll need 4* guys and they need to play some because you can't predict how long the others 5* guys like Luke and Frank will stay. It's a tough balance but the easy part is to stop recruiting and signing OAD guys when their relative position is already filled with a OAD guy and we have a reliable experienced reserve.

bob blue devil
05-13-2017, 08:18 AM
You are one of my favorite posters on DBR, but I think Grayson Allen (and his expressed reasons for staying) may be evidence that counters your point here.

Would have like for Frank to stay, but wish him the best in his professional pursuits.

do you think grayson, if he was a highly likely first rounder this year, would still be coming back? i thought it was pretty clear his plan was to leave after the season, but that got derailed. or perhaps i'm misinterpreting your comment.

i'm in full agreement with NS's statement. even though there are examples of players choosing to forego the opportunity to go in the first round of the draft, they are in a small minority. NS didn't say "every player" ze said "almost all players".

FadedTackyShirt
05-13-2017, 10:33 AM
Well Bamba isn't coming to Duke, so I don't think you have much to worry about there. But without Duval, what is the starting 5 and who plays point? Duval is now an absolute necessity, not just because of his elite talent but because we need to put a complete team out on the floor.

Realize that Duval is the bigger basketball need, but personally would prefer Bamba for Duke fit, even though both are almost certainly OADs. Realize it's not rational purely from a basketball fan perspective, but am way more fond of Duke University than Duke basketball.

Doesn't mean that I'm ever going to root against potential Duke OADs or early entrants in favor of four year players, but this era has created some tortured rationalizations.

GGLC
05-13-2017, 10:45 AM
I'm with you to a point. I think a change in recruiting philosophy is needed but really just around the edges so to speak. We didn't need Bolden last year. He wasn't really even a luxury. He just shouldn't have been recruited after we got Tatum and Giles with Jeter and Amile back. I think K needs to worry as much about keeping the guys we have as bringing in the next batch of OAD. I'm really glad Bolden is back but not more glad than if Jeter was still here. Likewise with Knox we would not need Bamba . We still don't need Bamba but without Knox, both he and Bolden would play. It would be at the expense of Vrank, Javin and Jack though. Maybe Duke would be slightly better this year but the program would be less stable and worse off for the future if those 3 guys leave. If it's just 100% Darwinian struggle every year the 3-4 year guys won't be here 3-4 years. It takes a little restraint when we are recruiting at the level we've been recruiting at. That probably will resolve itself as I'm not sure it can be sustained. The challenge too is that you can't know who's OAD every year. We thought Grayson would be gone but Frank and Luke would be here. Tatum and Giles were OAD players who may have gone straight from HS if allowed. Bolden was thought of as likely OAD too but maybe not quite as certain. It's not an easy balance but 2 sure OAD should be the max in order to maintain some roster stability. Beyond that we'll need 4* guys and they need to play some because you can't predict how long the others 5* guys like Luke and Frank will stay. It's a tough balance but the easy part is to stop recruiting and signing OAD guys when their relative position is already filled with a OAD guy and we have a reliable experienced reserve.

This is an excellent post.

GGLC
05-13-2017, 10:48 AM
Realize that Duval is the bigger basketball need, but personally would prefer Bamba for Duke fit, even though both are almost certainly OADs. Realize it's not rational purely from a basketball fan perspective, but am way more fond of Duke University than Duke basketball.

Doesn't mean that I'm ever going to root against potential Duke OADs or early entrants in favor of four year players, but this era has created some tortured rationalizations.

I agree with this completely as well. I wish this were a world in which our roster accommodated Bamba; I love that guy.

chriso
05-13-2017, 10:54 AM
This is an excellent post.

Agreed. I've been trying to articulate this and not come across as negative but you said it perfectly. It is hard to say who will be one and done. And if you recruit depth you have to keep these guys on your roster. That's why I was wary of getting Knox. He's clearly a great player but I was afraid we'd lose the guys behind him to transfer and then next year we're starting all over again. A guy like Tucker seems like a multiyear guy so I'm hoping we get him. Guys want to play. There is no easy answer. But I will support Duke no matter what. :)

Faison1
05-13-2017, 11:54 AM
I think a lot of people are forgetting the 2006-2010 time period where we were consistently whiffing on OAD recruits. DBR was screaming for a change in recruiting philosophy...get the OAD's, because we couldn't win Natty's without them. Perception: Teams with upper class talent like Ryan Kelly and Mason Plumlee had a habit of starting strong, and fading down the stretch, because OAD's seemed to improve through the year.

7 years later, the chorus to go back to that is getting louder and louder.

My hat is off to the coaching staff...how they continue to weather and persevere through so many challenges amazes me.

I'm as bummed about this offseason as anyone. To me, it's taken a bit of the soul out of Duke Basketball. Having passionately watched for over 30 years, I can say I don't like the current system in place. I don't quite understand why the NBA won't work with the NCAA to try and fix an issue that is slowly destroying something as wonderful as college hoops.

Why and how does College Football grow and prosper, while College Hoops is allowed to fade?

I wish no ill on Frank Jackson...quite the contrary. I wish him success. I also wish he decided to come back. It would have been fun to watch.

Troublemaker
05-13-2017, 12:50 PM
I'm with you. I know not everyone here feels this way but I am actually rooting against Duval and Bamba coming here at this point. The OADs are like a narcotic, at any moment it might seem like getting one is the only way out of one's problem, hence the "We NEED Duval" talk, "If we just get him we'd be contenders", but more likely than not they just create more problems down the road, and a year down the line we'll all be feeling empty and disappointed, but immediately ready to snort the next line, "we NEED (whoever the next OAD is), if we just get him we'd be contenders".

Yeah, I'm not buying it. Rooting against Duval coming is basically rooting for Duke to miss the tournament next season (or at least rooting for Duke to be a worse team.)

Even if you hate OADs, root for Duval to come for Grayson's sake. We have multi-year players, and they want Duval on the team. And the coaches want Duval on the team. In general, we should try to root for what the coaches and players want to happen. (Is one really even a Duke fan anymore if one doesn't do that really basic thing?)


It takes a little restraint when we are recruiting at the level we've been recruiting at. That probably will resolve itself as I'm not sure it can be sustained.

That's a really good point. Recruiting goes in cycles, and we're not going to be this OAD machine for much longer (even if we wanted to be). UNC's going to be a recruiting machine again one day, and Duke will struggle to land top-10 recruits again one day. And then eventually it'll flip again.

Point being, nobody needs to stress out about this OAD stuff. It ain't gonna last.


do you think grayson, if he was a highly likely first rounder this year, would still be coming back? i thought it was pretty clear his plan was to leave after the season, but that got derailed. or perhaps i'm misinterpreting your comment.

Well Grayson did forgo being a 1st-round draft pick (likely) to return for his junior season. (Although obviously the plan was to leave after that.)

Grayson's special, though. If we could fill the roster with only All-American level players whose dream school was Duke, who takes school seriously, and who can handle the academic workload to graduate in 3 years, we should. But there aren't too many of those out there.

miramar
05-13-2017, 01:43 PM
Agreed. I've been trying to articulate this and not come across as negative but you said it perfectly. It is hard to say who will be one and done. And if you recruit depth you have to keep these guys on your roster. That's why I was wary of getting Knox. He's clearly a great player but I was afraid we'd lose the guys behind him to transfer and then next year we're starting all over again. A guy like Tucker seems like a multiyear guy so I'm hoping we get him. Guys want to play. There is no easy answer. But I will support Duke no matter what. :)

Coach K has recruited the #1 PF and the #1 SG and is after the #1 PG (all per ESPN), but he also got two 4* recruits and one 3* recruit for continuity.

With four guys leaving early for the NBA and one regular transfer and one graduate transfer, we need a large recruiting class, not to mention a true PG. We certainly don't want this kind of churning year after year, but as usual Coach K is planning for the short and long term.

79-77
05-13-2017, 03:31 PM
Good for you Frank. Don't be a stranger.

As I've posted previously, FJ reminds me of former Knick John Starks. Not a true PG, but multitalented and explosive. There are plenty of guys with his skill set that find substantial roles in the NBA.

I think he'll do well in the NBA, although it will probably take him some time to earn regular minutes.

He also seems like a good kid, and a fine representative of my alma mater. Would I have preferred that he stay longer? Of course, but there are a lot of things in life I'd prefer. That's how it goes. We still have Coach K., a number of very-good-to-great players and a fantastic program.

It's a pretty sweet deal, all in all.

duke4ever19
05-13-2017, 03:33 PM
Good for you Frank. Don't be a stranger.

As I've posted previously, FJ reminds me of former Knick John Starks. Not a true PG, but multitalented and explosive. There are plenty of guys with his skill set that find substantial roles in the NBA.

I think he'll do well in the NBA, although it will probably take him some time to earn regular minutes.

He also seems like a good kid, and a fine representative of my alma mater. Would I have preferred that he stay longer? Of course, but there are a lot of things in life I'd prefer. That's how it goes. We still have Coach K., a number of very-good-to-great players and a fantastic program.

It's a pretty sweet deal, all in all.

Holy moly! I like the comparison. I can definitely see this.

bob blue devil
05-13-2017, 04:53 PM
Well Grayson did forgo being a 1st-round draft pick (likely) to return for his junior season. (Although obviously the plan was to leave after that.)

Grayson's special, though. If we could fill the roster with only All-American level players whose dream school was Duke, who takes school seriously, and who can handle the academic workload to graduate in 3 years, we should. But there aren't too many of those out there.

yeah, i agree that grayson's situation is quite uncommon. i'd argue that it involves even more ingredients than you note - it's not just that duke was his dream school and he takes school seriously and he could graduate in 3 years. it's also that last year he was probably a first rounder, but not a high one and he had the opportunity to "work on some things" to potentially further improve his draft positioning. if he's projected to go high in the first round, that becomes a much riskier proposition than it was (which, as we've seen, was already pretty risky to begin with). also, he had the opportunity to be immortalized at duke and in college basketball - he was a preseason NPOY candidate on a loaded team with expectations of a national title. how many guys have that opportunity? at any rate, take any of these ingredients away and i suspect it's much more likely grayson leaves after his sophomore year.

it would be interesting to assess how many highly likely first round guys forego the opportunity each year. i suspect, wild guess, it's around 10%. it's really unrealistic to expect any player to pass up a likely first round selection.

miramar
05-13-2017, 05:50 PM
The Collective Bargaining Agreement allows each team to have two of the new two-way contracts. From Rob Dauster at NBC:

Let’s start with the “two-way contracts,” which NBA teams each get two of. They are essentially a retainer that those teams can place on younger players they want to be the 16th and 17th men on their roster, holding their rights as they bounce between the D-League — where they will likely spend the majority of the year — and the NBA. The catch is that those players have to have less than three years service as a professional, and the point of it is to provide a financial incentive for younger players with the potential to reach the NBA to remain stateside while allowing those NBA teams to develop them.

That financial incentive is fairly large, as well: Two-way players will make $75,000 guaranteed and will be able to make up to $275,000, depending on the amount of time they spend with the NBA team.

http://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2017/04/27/d-league-salaries-two-way-contracts-increase-nba-draft-early-entries/


While it seemed to me that Frank should stay at Duke so that he would avoid the D-League and become a 2018 first-round draft choice, it appears that even if he is chosen in the second round and is sent to the D-League, he could potentially make at least $75,000 while forming part of an NBA roster. Years ago it only made sense for players to come out early if they were going to be lottery picks, but then more recently it depended on whether they were going to be first-round draft choices.

Now players may decide to leave even if they are projected to fall to the second round as long as they expect to receive a two-way contract, which could be a real game changer for schools like Duke.

subzero02
05-13-2017, 06:15 PM
Good for you Frank. Don't be a stranger.

As I've posted previously, FJ reminds me of former Knick John Starks. Not a true PG, but multitalented and explosive. There are plenty of guys with his skill set that find substantial roles in the NBA.

I think he'll do well in the NBA, although it will probably take him some time to earn regular minutes.

He also seems like a good kid, and a fine representative of my alma mater. Would I have preferred that he stay longer? Of course, but there are a lot of things in life I'd prefer. That's how it goes. We still have Coach K., a number of very-good-to-great players and a fantastic program.

It's a pretty sweet deal, all in all.

I really like the comparison. I hope Frank can display the same competitive drive in the NBA that Starks showed.(sans the pippen trip ). Those two are close in athleticism, maybe a slight edge to Frank, and shooting ability, edge to Starks.

Neals384
05-15-2017, 11:56 AM
fyi. Draft Express now has Jackson going to the Celtics with pick #36. Still seems a bit optimistic to me, given that DE has Purdue's Swanigan at pick 37. This is a seriously deep draft!

My guess is that Frank has made a serious error here, and lands in the D League for a couple years instead of getting a guaranteed contract in the 2018 draft. Best wishes to him anyway, I enjoyed his contribution to Duke this past season.

LasVegas
05-15-2017, 12:02 PM
fyi. Draft Express now has Jackson going to the Celtics with pick #36. Still seems a bit optimistic to me, given that DE has Purdue's Swanigan at pick 37. This is a seriously deep draft!

My guess is that Frank has made a serious error here, and lands in the D League for a couple years instead of getting a guaranteed contract in the 2018 draft. Best wishes to him anyway, I enjoyed his contribution to Duke this past season.

I can easily see frank becoming a really good NBA player. I also can see him playing in the d league for a few years, never developing as a PG, and being out of the league pretty quick.

Jeffrey
05-15-2017, 12:28 PM
I can easily see frank becoming a really good NBA player. I also can see him playing in the d league for a few years, never developing as a PG, and being out of the league pretty quick.

I think it's debatable what the "D" in D League should mean. Two of my friends have been D League head coaches. One was excellent, truly developed players, and the NBA benefitted greatly. The other one, IMO, collected a mediocre check and ran a glorified pick-up game. In general, I think Frank would have gained more from additional Duke, than D League, coaching.

Atlanta Duke
05-15-2017, 01:12 PM
This analysis says Frank Jackson was looking for a justification to move to the next level

Multiple people told FOX Sports that Jackson was looking for any reason to stay in this draft, and apparently he found it thanks to a 13-point, four-assist performance in Thursday’s five-on-five play....

But for him to find a role in the NBA, he’ll need to prove that he can run an offense and create for others, something he was unable to show this season at Duke (he averaged 1.7 assists and 1.4 turnovers per game).

Jackson will have time to show off a more well-rounded game in private workouts, but he felt like a second-rounder heading into the Combine. That didn’t really change last week.

http://www.foxsports.com/nba/gallery/2017-nba-draft-combine-winners-losers-measurements-wing-span-vertical-leap-details-051517

Once again a college player and his support group needed to assess the costs and benefits of coming back. With Grayson Allen returning, Gary Trent arriving and Trevon Duval still being recruited, Frank Jackson had to assess how his draft prospects would improve with another year at Duke, particularly if he would not be the first option at point guard.

Good luck to him in pursuing a career in the NBA.

ChillinDuke
05-15-2017, 01:30 PM
This analysis says Frank Jackson was looking for a justification to move to the next level

Multiple people told FOX Sports that Jackson was looking for any reason to stay in this draft, and apparently he found it thanks to a 13-point, four-assist performance in Thursday’s five-on-five play...

But for him to find a role in the NBA, he’ll need to prove that he can run an offense and create for others, something he was unable to show this season at Duke (he averaged 1.7 assists and 1.4 turnovers per game).

Jackson will have time to show off a more well-rounded game in private workouts, but he felt like a second-rounder heading into the Combine. That didn’t really change last week.

http://www.foxsports.com/nba/gallery/2017-nba-draft-combine-winners-losers-measurements-wing-span-vertical-leap-details-051517

Once again a college player and his support group needed to assess the costs and benefits of coming back. With Grayson Allen returning, Gary Trent arriving and Trevon Duval still being recruited, Frank Jackson had to assess how his draft prospects would improve with another year at Duke, particularly if he would not be the first option at point guard.

Good luck to him in pursuing a career in the NBA.

There's no way of knowing how much faith to put into this report.

Nonetheless, I find it extremely interesting. If Frank did not actually get a guarantee and instead was looking to hang on any shred of positive reinforcement to stay in the draft, well, hmmm...

I guess we'll see on draft night.

- Chillin

Owen Meany
05-15-2017, 02:06 PM
There's no way of knowing how much faith to put into this report.

Nonetheless, I find it extremely interesting. If Frank did not actually get a guarantee and instead was looking to hang on any shred of positive reinforcement to stay in the draft, well, hmmm...

I guess we'll see on draft night.

- Chillin

I think it was clear that FJ and his family were intent on entering the draft from his father's initial comments (basically that going pro would be a no-brainer if Jackson did not love Duke - despite the fact he was not even projected as a first round pick). I do not say this as a knock on Jackson - I am sure his father has his best interest in mind. The fact that he won the Coach's Award also shows that he had a very good attitude and "bought in" fully why he was at Duke. All reasons that he would not seem in a hurry to leave Duke.


This does illustrate the difficulty in determining who, exactly, is a OAD player today. There was nothing to indicate that he was determined to leave Duke after only one year - particularly if he was not a sure-fire 1st round pick. But there will be people who suggest Duke needs to change its recruiting, not go after OAD's, question why the staff was not prepared for his departure, etc.


True OAD's are easy - do you want them or not (everyone does). But the next level of kids are more difficult. I don't think anyone would have projected Jackson leaving after the year he had this year. The calculus has changed. You used to want to be a top 3 pick, then 5, then lottery, now 1st round is enough for a lot of kids, and perhaps you don't even need that in the case of a lot of kids. Justise Winslow was ranked behind Juston Jackson (they were on the same AAU team, incidentally, so vied together and against the same competition by scouts who ranked them). Winslow went pro after 1 year versus 3 for Jackson. Tyus Jones blew up, won a NCAA Championship and was able to parlay this into a very high draft pick despite lacking the athleticism and size the NBA typically demands.


Its also easy to suggest you bring in 4 year kids, but who is willing to wait and develop over 4 years now? The staff could not have possibly anticipated that Derryck Thornton would choose to leave Duke after the playing time he received as a freshman (and more importantly the role he would have as a sophomore). Chase Jeter is a great kid who loved Duke, but his time on the court was greatly limited due to his own foul troubles. He seemed poised to be a Tyler Thornton-type kid that Coach K values due to his hustle, attitude, etc. But he chose to move on. Semi Ojeleye was a great kid who could come in and develop, but he, by his own admission, came in unprepared for Duke and chose to move on after 1 and a half seasons rather than work through things at Duke.

The coaches are in a very difficult position. And there is a lot of luck involved.

Troublemaker
05-15-2017, 02:44 PM
fyi. Draft Express now has Jackson going to the Celtics with pick #36. Still seems a bit optimistic to me, given that DE has Purdue's Swanigan at pick 37. This is a seriously deep draft!

My guess is that Frank has made a serious error here, and lands in the D League for a couple years instead of getting a guaranteed contract in the 2018 draft. Best wishes to him anyway, I enjoyed his contribution to Duke this past season.

Oh, I think he'll be a first-rounder. Putting on my deerstalker cap, the fact that he tested out so well (#2 vertical leap, #1 shuttle run, #5 sprint) (http://stats.nba.com/draft/combine/) and played so well in the scrimmage, followed so quickly by hiring an agent and pulling out of further scrimmages, says to me that he has first-round feedback and possibly a first-round guarantee.

He needed to knock it out of the park, and he did. Good for Frank.

Olympic Fan
05-15-2017, 02:46 PM
FWIW, Chad Ford reported that several NBA execs told him that Frank Jackson got a first round guarantee.

We'll see.

BTW: I thought Ford was out at ESPN. He posted a new article there yesterday.

Eternal Outlaw
05-15-2017, 02:52 PM
FWIW, Chad Ford reported that several NBA execs told him that Frank Jackson got a first round guarantee.

We'll see.

BTW: I thought Ford was out at ESPN. He posted a new article there yesterday.

He's out after the draft

Hauerwas
05-15-2017, 03:33 PM
Does anyone really believe a GM is going to give a "guarantee" to a non-lottery pick? Please, this is one of those stupid phrases that crops up around this conversation. Sure, they can give a guarantee and then pick somebody else. It is to their benefit to have a loaded draft so of course they are telling everyone they are going to draft them.

There is ZERO chance Frank got a first round guarantee from a GM who will then actually draft him, it just doesn't work that way, there are too many moving parts, too many trades and too many last minute needs to guarantee a tweener guard who doesn't do anything great a first round pick. Now again, Frank and his dad may have thought they got a guarantee but if they are foolish enough to believe that well again, welcome to the professional world Mr. Jackson.

I've just honestly soured on him through this whole process so whatever, go pro and good luck cause there are no guarantees in the real world.

Olympic Fan
05-15-2017, 03:40 PM
Does anyone really believe a GM is going to give a "guarantee" to a non-lottery pick? Please, this is one of those stupid phrases that crops up around this conversation. Sure, they can give a guarantee and then pick somebody else. It is to their benefit to have a loaded draft so of course they are telling everyone they are going to draft them.

There is ZERO chance Frank got a first round guarantee from a GM who will then actually draft him, it just doesn't work that way, there are too many moving parts, too many trades and too many last minute needs to guarantee a tweener guard who doesn't do anything great a first round pick. Now again, Frank and his dad may have thought they got a guarantee but if they are foolish enough to believe that well again, welcome to the professional world Mr. Jackson.

I've just honestly soured on him through this whole process so whatever, go pro and good luck cause there are no guarantees in the real world.

Let's just say that because you believe it, doesn't make it so. That's EXACTLY the way it works.

Players receive guarantees all the time. It's part of the game. True, there is no mechanism to enforce such guarantees, except the impacts on the agent (and their future clients) for a team that reneged on a guarantee.

FWIW, the only players worried about guarantees are non-lottery pick players. The lottery pick guys are sure of getting picked. It's the late first-round guys who have to stay in the draft and risk missing the first round or decide to return to school. Give such a player a guarantee is a way for NBA teams to get a player they like to stay in the draft.

First round guarantees are a fact of life -- whether you believe it or not.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
05-15-2017, 03:41 PM
Does anyone really believe a GM is going to give a "guarantee" to a non-lottery pick? Please, this is one of those stupid phrases that crops up around this conversation. Sure, they can give a guarantee and then pick somebody else. It is to their benefit to have a loaded draft so of course they are telling everyone they are going to draft them.

There is ZERO chance Frank got a first round guarantee from a GM who will then actually draft him, it just doesn't work that way, there are too many moving parts, too many trades and too many last minute needs to guarantee a tweener guard who doesn't do anything great a first round pick.

I agree that guarantees are dicey, but saying there is a "zero chance" is absurd.

Hauerwas
05-15-2017, 04:04 PM
I agree that guarantees are dicey, but saying there is a "zero chance" is absurd.

Sure, he could have gotten a verbal guarantee but the point is that they mean absolutely nothing. It's like the old Seinfeld episode, you are great at taking a reservation and awful at actually holding the reservation.

He's a questionable first round pick in one of the deepest drafts in past 10 years, so yeah, I do believe getting and actually cashing in on a guarantee is almost out of the question for Frank.

kAzE
05-15-2017, 04:11 PM
Sure, he could have gotten a verbal guarantee but the point is that they mean absolutely nothing. It's like the old Seinfeld episode, you are great at taking a reservation and awful at actually holding the reservation.

United Airlines could learn a thing or 2 about this. Let's hope Frank doesn't end being dragged out of the first round :rolleyes:

Furniture
05-15-2017, 05:58 PM
Sure, he could have gotten a verbal guarantee but the point is that they mean absolutely nothing. It's like the old Seinfeld episode, you are great at taking a reservation and awful at actually holding the reservation.

He's a questionable first round pick in one of the deepest drafts in past 10 years, so yeah, I do believe getting and actually cashing in on a guarantee is almost out of the question for Frank.

no soup for those nba execs if that happens!

House P
05-16-2017, 11:01 AM
Two-way players will make $75,000 guaranteed and will be able to make up to $275,000, depending on the amount of time they spend with the NBA team.

http://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2017/04/27/d-league-salaries-two-way-contracts-increase-nba-draft-early-entries/

While it seemed to me that Frank should stay at Duke so that he would avoid the D-League and become a 2018 first-round draft choice, it appears that even if he is chosen in the second round and is sent to the D-League, he could potentially make at least $75,000 while forming part of an NBA roster. Years ago it only made sense for players to come out early if they were going to be lottery picks, but then more recently it depended on whether they were going to be first-round draft choices.

Now players may decide to leave even if they are projected to fall to the second round as long as they expect to receive a two-way contract, which could be a real game changer for schools like Duke.

This is a very interesting article. Is it time to re-think the conventional wisdom regarding the financial wisdom of entering the draft as a 2nd round pick?

As you point out, there has been an evolution in what constitutes a wise financial decision with respect to entering the draft. It seems that there was a period (thru the mid 1990s?) when it made financial sense to enter the draft if you were a top 3 pick. Then it became essentially too lucrative to pass up the draft if you were a lottery pick (or, later, a 1st round pick). Now, I wonder if we reaching a point where the financial lure of being an early-to-mid 2nd round pick is difficult to pass up.

I don't follow the NBA all that closely, so I could be misunderstanding something, but the contract information listed by basketball-reference.com (http://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2016.html) makes it appear that nearly all of the players drafted between 31-50 in last year's draft have fairly lucrative NBA contracts. I have pasted the relevant info into a table below.

If I am interpreting this correctly, it seems that even players like Chinanu Onuaku, Diamond Stone and Michael Gbinije who spent most of the year in the D-League have multi-year (guaranteed?) contracts which pay them around $2M. It looks like the only players drafted in the top 50 who aren't already guaranteed to make $1M from the NBA are "draft and stash" foreign players who are presumably being payed fairly well overseas.

Is there something I am missing here? If not, then Frank will likely be quite comfortable financially for the next couple years, even if he doesn't get drafted until the mid 2nd round and spends most of his year in the D-League playing in venues like the Portland Expo center (http://www.portlandmaine.gov/646/Calendar-of-Events). There may be other reasons for a 2nd round pick to return to school, but fear of spending a year slogging around the D-league while only making $20K doesn't seem to be one.

...

Of course, the real "big money" depends on a lucrative 2nd NBA contract (just ask Miles Plumlee with his 4 year $50M contract), but that is true regardless of whether you were the 5th pick or 45th pick in the draft.



Here is the contract info from basketball-reference.com (along with the number of NBA games and minutes for each player in 2016-17).



Pk
Player
G
MP
2016-17
2017-18
2018-19
2019-20
Notes



31
Deyonta Davis
36
238
$1,369,229
$1,307,614
$1,544,951

Signed 3-yr/$4M deal on July 10, 2016



32
Ivica Zubac
38
609
$1,034,956
$1,312,611
$1,544,951

Signed 3-yr/$3.2M deal on July 7, 2016.
2018-19 not guaranteed until Saturday, June 30, 2018.


33
Cheick Diallo
17
199
$543,471
$1,312,611
$1,544,951

Signed 3-year deal on July 22, 2016.



34
Tyler Ulis
61
1123
$918,369
$1,312,611
$1,544,951
$1,676,735
Signed 4-yr deal on July 7, 2016.
2018-19 & 2019-20 unguaranteed.


35
Rade Zagorac






Played in Serbia (KK Mega Leks)



36
Malcolm Brogdon
75
1982
$925,000
$1,312,611
$1,544,951

Signed 3-yr deal on July 29, 2016.
2018-19 unguaranteed.


37
Chinanu Onuaku
5
52
$543,471
$1,312,611
$1,544,951

Signed 3-yr deal on July 20, 2016.



38
Patrick McCaw
71
1074
$543,471
$1,312,611


Signed 2-year min salary deal on July 6, 2016.



39
David Michineau






Played in France (Hyeres-Toulon)



40
Diamond Stone
7
24
$543,471
$1,312,611


Signed 2-yr deal on July 14, 2016.



41
Stephen Zimmerman
19
108
$950,000
$1,312,611
$1,544,951

Signed 3-yr deal on July 7, 2016.
2017-18 & 2018-19 unguaranteed.


42
Isaiah Whitehead
73
1643
$1,074,145
$1,122,248
$1,544,951
$1,676,735
Signed 4-year deal on July 8, 2016.
2018-19 and 2019-20 are unguaranteed.


43
Zhou Qi






Played in China (Xinjiang)



44
Isaia Cordinier






Played in France (Antibes)



45
Demetrius Jackson
5
17
$1,450,000
$1,384,750
$1,544,951
$1,676,735
Signed 4-yr deal on July 26, 2016.
2017-18 guaranteed for $650K until Saturday, July 15, 2017. 2018-19 unguaranteed.


46
A.J. Hammons
22
163
$650,000
$1,312,611
$1,544,951

Signed 3-yr deal on July 8, 2016.



47
Jake Layman
35
249
$600,000
$1,312,611
$1,544,951

Signed 3-yr/$2.7M deal on July 7, 2016.
2018-19 is not guaranteed until Saturday, June 30, 2018.


48
Paul Zipser
44
843
$750,000
$1,312,611
$1,544,951
$1,676,735
Signed 4-yr deal on July 15, 2016.
2018-19 unguaranteed. 2019-20 team option.


49
Michael Gbinije
9
32
$650,000
$1,312,611
$1,544,951

Signed 3-yr deal on July 14, 2016.
2017-18 guaranteed for $500K. 2018-19 unguaranteed.


50
Georges Niang
23
93
$650,000
$1,312,611
$1,544,951

Signed 3-yr deal on July 11, 2016.
2017-18 guaranteed for $100K until Saturday, July 15, 2017. 2018-19 unguaranteed.


51
Ben Bentil
3
10
$331,969



Signed 10-day contract w/ Dallas on Feb 26, 2017.
2016-17 guaranteed for $250K until Tuesday, January 10, 2017. Waived Friday, October 21, 2016.


52
Joel Bolomboy
12
53
$600,000
$1,312,611
$1,544,951

Signed 3-yr deal on August 19, 2016.
2017-18 became fully guaranteed on Tuesday, January 10, 2017; 2018-19 unguaranteed


53
Petr Cornelie






Played in France (Le Mans)



54
Kay Felder
42
386
$543,471
$1,312,611
$1,544,951

Signed 3-yr deal on August 7, 2016.
2017-18 guaranteed for $456K. 2018-19 unguaranteed.


55
Marcus Paige


$125,000



Signed 2-yr deal on August 22, 2016.
2016-17 guaranteed for $125K; 2017-18 unguaranteed. Waived on Thursday, October 13, 2016.

eddiehaskell
05-16-2017, 11:32 AM
If I was almost guaranteed ~1M as a 2nd rounder, I'd probably be gone. Invested wisely (with parents guiding them), a player would be set for life compared to average folks (~30k/year return? for doing nothing). And that's not counting any money made on a 2nd NBA contract or playing overseas...likely an additional $500k++ by age 30.

So yeah, it seems possible that a 2nd rounder could take their initial money, play pro basketball somewhere until ~30 and never work another day in their life.

Furniture
07-09-2017, 01:37 AM
Shams Charania
@ShamsCharania (https://mobile.twitter.com/ShamsCharania)
Sources: New Orleans is signing No. 31 overall pick Frank Jackson of Duke to 3-year deal, with two guaranteed years and third-year partial.5:20 PM · Jul 8, 2017 (https://mobile.twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/883798067572424704)

https://mobile.twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/883798067572424704

DukieInBrasil
07-10-2017, 04:02 PM
If those details are correct then that seems like pretty good justification for Frank's decision to leave, as much as i would have liked to see him destroy the ACC this coming year. Frank + Grayson + Trevon would just be too good. I s'pose there is some likelihood that Trevon doesn't come to Duke if Frank was a lock to come back.
Best of luck to Frank on his upcoming trials and tribulations of becoming a legit pro.

BigZ
07-10-2017, 07:41 PM
Is that bad for Quinn?

Dukehky
07-11-2017, 08:38 AM
If I was almost guaranteed ~1M as a 2nd rounder, I'd probably be gone. Invested wisely (with parents guiding them), a player would be set for life compared to average folks (~30k/year return? for doing nothing). And that's not counting any money made on a 2nd NBA contract or playing overseas...likely an additional $500k++ by age 30.

So yeah, it seems possible that a 2nd rounder could take their initial money, play pro basketball somewhere until ~30 and never work another day in their life.

I wouldn't trust Al Jackson with a 2 dollar bill.

DukieInBrasil
07-11-2017, 09:25 AM
I wouldn't trust Al Jackson with a 2 dollar bill.

why not? Frank's dad has been able to achieve notable amounts of success in his career. Your opinion on what it takes to be a successful politician may color whether you think that means he has solid financial advice for his son.

CameronBornAndBred
07-11-2017, 09:30 AM
Pk
Player
G
MP
2016-17
2017-18
2018-19
2019-20
Notes



31
Deyonta Davis
36
238
$1,369,229
$1,307,614
$1,544,951

Signed 3-yr/$4M deal on July 10, 2016



32
Ivica Zubac
38
609
$1,034,956
$1,312,611
$1,544,951

Signed 3-yr/$3.2M deal on July 7, 2016.
2018-19 not guaranteed until Saturday, June 30, 2018.


33
Cheick Diallo
17
199
$543,471
$1,312,611
$1,544,951

Signed 3-year deal on July 22, 2016.



34
Tyler Ulis
61
1123
$918,369
$1,312,611
$1,544,951
$1,676,735
Signed 4-yr deal on July 7, 2016.
2018-19 & 2019-20 unguaranteed.


35
Rade Zagorac






Played in Serbia (KK Mega Leks)



36
Malcolm Brogdon
75
1982
$925,000
$1,312,611
$1,544,951

Signed 3-yr deal on July 29, 2016.
2018-19 unguaranteed.


37
Chinanu Onuaku
5
52
$543,471
$1,312,611
$1,544,951

Signed 3-yr deal on July 20, 2016.



38
Patrick McCaw
71
1074
$543,471
$1,312,611


Signed 2-year min salary deal on July 6, 2016.



39
David Michineau






Played in France (Hyeres-Toulon)



40
Diamond Stone
7
24
$543,471
$1,312,611


Signed 2-yr deal on July 14, 2016.



41
Stephen Zimmerman
19
108
$950,000
$1,312,611
$1,544,951

Signed 3-yr deal on July 7, 2016.
2017-18 & 2018-19 unguaranteed.


42
Isaiah Whitehead
73
1643
$1,074,145
$1,122,248
$1,544,951
$1,676,735
Signed 4-year deal on July 8, 2016.
2018-19 and 2019-20 are unguaranteed.


43
Zhou Qi






Played in China (Xinjiang)



44
Isaia Cordinier






Played in France (Antibes)



45
Demetrius Jackson
5
17
$1,450,000
$1,384,750
$1,544,951
$1,676,735
Signed 4-yr deal on July 26, 2016.
2017-18 guaranteed for $650K until Saturday, July 15, 2017. 2018-19 unguaranteed.


46
A.J. Hammons
22
163
$650,000
$1,312,611
$1,544,951

Signed 3-yr deal on July 8, 2016.



47
Jake Layman
35
249
$600,000
$1,312,611
$1,544,951

Signed 3-yr/$2.7M deal on July 7, 2016.
2018-19 is not guaranteed until Saturday, June 30, 2018.


48
Paul Zipser
44
843
$750,000
$1,312,611
$1,544,951
$1,676,735
Signed 4-yr deal on July 15, 2016.
2018-19 unguaranteed. 2019-20 team option.


49
Michael Gbinije
9
32
$650,000
$1,312,611
$1,544,951

Signed 3-yr deal on July 14, 2016.
2017-18 guaranteed for $500K. 2018-19 unguaranteed.


50
Georges Niang
23
93
$650,000
$1,312,611
$1,544,951

Signed 3-yr deal on July 11, 2016.
2017-18 guaranteed for $100K until Saturday, July 15, 2017. 2018-19 unguaranteed.


51
Ben Bentil
3
10
$331,969



Signed 10-day contract w/ Dallas on Feb 26, 2017.
2016-17 guaranteed for $250K until Tuesday, January 10, 2017. Waived Friday, October 21, 2016.


52
Joel Bolomboy
12
53
$600,000
$1,312,611
$1,544,951

Signed 3-yr deal on August 19, 2016.
2017-18 became fully guaranteed on Tuesday, January 10, 2017; 2018-19 unguaranteed


53
Petr Cornelie






Played in France (Le Mans)



54
Kay Felder
42
386
$543,471
$1,312,611
$1,544,951

Signed 3-yr deal on August 7, 2016.
2017-18 guaranteed for $456K. 2018-19 unguaranteed.


55
Marcus Paige


$125,000



Signed 2-yr deal on August 22, 2016.
2016-17 guaranteed for $125K; 2017-18 unguaranteed. Waived on Thursday, October 13, 2016.



Good thing Paige stayed in school four years and got a degree. (If the degree is worth much.)
Wonder how much he'd be making if he left in his first or second year.

jv001
07-11-2017, 04:28 PM
I wouldn't trust Al Jackson with a 2 dollar bill.

I don't know Al Jackson, but there are some people that as my dad would say, " I wouldn't trust him in an outhouse with a muzzle on". I usually use that for special "cheat fans". :cool: GoDuke!

Steven43
07-12-2017, 01:50 PM
I wouldn't trust Al Jackson with a 2 dollar bill.
Who is Al Jackson and why wouldn't you trust him with finances?

awhom111
07-13-2017, 12:56 AM
Shams Charania
@ShamsCharania (https://mobile.twitter.com/ShamsCharania)
Sources: New Orleans is signing No. 31 overall pick Frank Jackson of Duke to 3-year deal, with two guaranteed years and third-year partial.5:20 PM · Jul 8, 2017 (https://mobile.twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/883798067572424704)

https://mobile.twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/883798067572424704

Eric Pincus of Basketball Insiders has the 3rd year at $506,000 guaranteed out of $1,618,520. That is in addition to $815,615 for this season and $1,378,242 for next season. The 30th pick will likely sign at 120% of rookie scale, which would be a guarantee of $1,394,520 in the first season and $1,655,160 with the option for the third year of $1,934,160 needing to be picked up before the second season.

Furniture
08-03-2017, 11:50 PM
http://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=5563527&itype=CMSID

interesting read for us Duke fans.

arnie
08-04-2017, 06:32 AM
http://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=5563527&itype=CMSID

interesting read for us Duke fans.

Yea, interesting; but when I see a glaring omission at end of article, makes me wonder about the other "facts". Or maybe I'm wrong and Tatum is back!

atoomer0881
08-04-2017, 09:21 AM
Yea, interesting; but when I see a glaring omission at end of article, makes me wonder about the other "facts". Or maybe I'm wrong and Tatum is back!

Was thinking the exact same thing! Considering the only person they didn't list was the person who was drafted first out of the group haha.