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PeteZaHut
04-29-2017, 12:16 PM
Can't remember where I saw it, but Trevon Duval was quoted saying something to the effect of "Coach K told me I'd be running the show." Reminds me of how he handed the team over to Hurley on the first day of practice and from what I understand, something similar with Kyrie. Do you think Duval is supposed to be as special of a player as those guys?

gam7
04-29-2017, 01:20 PM
Can't remember where I saw it, but Trevon Duval was quoted saying something to the effect of "Coach K told me I'd be running the show." Reminds me of how he handed the team over to Hurley on the first day of practice and from what I understand, something similar with Kyrie. Do you think Duval is supposed to be as special of a player as those guys?

While at Duke? No chance.

WVDUKEFAN
04-29-2017, 02:20 PM
There may never be another Hurley at Duke or anywhere else. Kids just don't stay 4 years anymore. Will Coach K hand him the keys? Absolutely, if he thinks Duval is the right person to drive the ship.

Indoor66
04-29-2017, 02:47 PM
There may never be another Hurley at Duke or anywhere else. Kids just don't stay 4 years anymore. Will Coach K hand him the keys? Absolutely, if he thinks Duval is the right person to drive the ship.

I will, of course, defer to Bob Green on this, but I don't believe that you Drive a ship.

Devilwin
04-29-2017, 02:50 PM
I will, of course, defer to Bob Green on this, but I don't believe that you Drive a ship.

"Hooper drives the boat, Chief."
Quint, from Jaws...

Bob Green
04-29-2017, 03:14 PM
I will, of course, defer to Bob Green on this, but I don't believe that you Drive a ship.

You conn a ship. The conning officer, who is underneath the officer of the deck, is responsible for maneuvering the ship by issuing orders to the helmsman.

PeteZaHut
04-29-2017, 03:54 PM
I will, of course, defer to Bob Green on this, but I don't believe that you Drive a ship.

If the ceiling is the roof, then you can definitely drive the ship.

wallyman
04-29-2017, 04:12 PM
Believe you can drive a ship to water, but you still need a lot of cinderblocks on dry land to get through the winter.

DangerDevil
04-29-2017, 04:24 PM
You conn a ship. The conning officer, who is underneath the officer of the deck, is responsible for maneuvering the ship by issuing orders to the helmsman.

If SWOs don't "drive ships", how are you "ship drivers"?

For our non-Navy brethren, SWO stands for Surface Warfare Officer.

OldPhiKap
04-29-2017, 05:02 PM
Believe you can drive a ship to water, but you still need a lot of cinderblocks on dry land to get through the winter.

I once drove my chevy to the levee, but the levee was dry.

fuse
04-29-2017, 05:21 PM
Comparisons like this one are good fun.

As amazing as Irving is today, and was in his short Duke tenure, there's no real basis to compare him to Hurley.

I've not seen Duval play, so I can't really opine on him.

Jason Williams, maybe Duhon, Dawkins, or Amaker would make for a more nuanced discussion.

PeteZaHut
04-29-2017, 05:59 PM
Comparisons like this one are good fun.

As amazing as Irving is today, and was in his short Duke tenure, there's no real basis to compare him to Hurley.

I've not seen Duval play, so I can't really opine on him.

Jason Williams, maybe Duhon, Dawkins, or Amaker would make for a more nuanced discussion.

I'm only 27, so I was alive for the first 2 championship teams, but certainly don't remember any of it. That being said, Kyrie, even in the small number of games he played, was the best college player I've ever seen. As much as I love Jason Williams (my favorite Duke player) and as good as he was, I remember even his junior year how prone he was to making mistakes. Irving didn't. I was fortunate enough to be at Duke while he was there. Watching him in person, you see things about his game that you don't get on TV. I remember seeing him trapped along the sideline by 2 defenders. Any other player in the world has to pick up their dribble in that moment - they get fouled, turn the ball over, or call a timeout. He disappeared behind the defenders for about 2 seconds, then boom, he popped out in between them, keeping his dribble alive the whole time. Something a lot of people wouldn't notice, and it certainly wouldn't make SC top 10, but it was one of the most impressive plays I've ever seen. Still, I think the most impressive thing about Kyrie is that in the Blue and White game that year, Josh Hairston was the leading scorer. Yes, Josh Hairston. Guess who was the PG on his squad?

wavedukefan70s
04-29-2017, 06:01 PM
You conn a ship. The conning officer, who is underneath the officer of the deck, is responsible for maneuvering the ship by issuing orders to the helmsman.

So like a harbor pilot for commercial vessels?

Newton_14
04-29-2017, 08:58 PM
While at Duke? No chance.
Kyrie Irving played something like 7 or 8 games total at Duke. I would think Duvall, being the Number 1 ranked PG in his class, would very easily be able to surpass Kyrie's accomplishments. He won't stick around long enough to even approach Hurley land.


You conn a ship. The conning officer, who is underneath the officer of the deck, is responsible for maneuvering the ship by issuing orders to the helmsman.
So the helmsman drives the boat! Thanks Mr Bob!

gam7
04-29-2017, 10:08 PM
Kyrie Irving played something like 7 or 8 games total at Duke. I would think Duvall, being the Number 1 ranked PG in his class, would very easily be able to surpass Kyrie's accomplishments. He won't stick around long enough to even approach Hurley land.


You are one of my favorite posters here, Mr. Newton, but this one isn't your best work.

First, Kyrie played 11 games at Duke.

Second, I was responding to the original poster's question, which was whether Duval was supposed to be as special of a player as Kyrie or Hurley, not whether Duval would surpass their college career stat totals. As for your point, I agree with you, health permitting, but you sure aren't going out on much of limb there.

Third, having said that, Duval will not come close to matching Kyrie's career game averages - 17.5 PPG on 53% shooting, 46% from 3, 90% FTs, 1.5 steals, 4.3 assists, 3.4 rebs.

Newton_14
04-29-2017, 10:18 PM
You are one of my favorite posters here, Mr. Newton, but this one isn't your best work.

First, Kyrie played 11 games at Duke.

Second, I was responding to the original poster's question, which was whether Duval was supposed to be as special of a player as Kyrie or Hurley, not whether Duval would surpass their college career stat totals. As for your point, I agree with you, health permitting, but you sure aren't going out on much of limb there.

Third, having said that, Duval will not come close to matching Kyrie's career game averages - 17.5 PPG on 53% shooting, 46% from 3, 90% FTs, 1.5 steals, 4.3 assists, 3.4 rebs.

First, I wasn't dogging Kyrie or you. I just think what Kyrie did in a Duke uniform often gets overstated here. He was going to be a great college player but the untimely injury derailed that. He never even played a single conference game. Yes his numbers are great but again, 11 games. 8 Regular Season games and the 3 in the tourney.

Second, I don't think the OP should have put Kyrie in the subject. If I were going to pick two "Special PG's at Duke, it would be Hurley and either Johnny Dawkins or Jason Williams. I love Kyrie but if we are being honest, he didn't have a Duke career.

Third, lighten up already. It isn't something to get all worked up over.... peace my brother

Olympic Fan
04-29-2017, 10:32 PM
Personal opinion. the best freshmen point guards in Duke history (based entirely on freshman performance):

1. Tyus Jones, 2015
2. Jason Williams, 2000
3. Bobby Hurley 1990
4. Johnny Dawkins, 1983
5. Tommy Amaker, 1984
6. Jeff Capel, 1994
7. Chris Duhon, 2001
8. Greg Paulus, 2006


Note: Kyrie Irving was on pace to be No. 1, but I agree that 11 games (eight as a starter, three as a sub) aren't quite enough. Duhon was tough to slot because he only started 10 games, but he was a top sub for the other 28. I once asked Jeff Capel who was the point guard in 1994 -- him or Collins? He answered with one word: Grant! Grant did lead that team in assists, but Capel led the guards in assists by a wide margin and usually guarded the opposing point guard.

From my limited exposure to Mr. Duval, I would guess that if he comes and has a healthy year, he'll slot in that list just before or behind Tommy Amaker. Both great distributors with a lot of defensive potential, but neither is much of a shooter (Amaker didn't hit double figures until his senior year).

I'd take Tommy Amaker II ...

curtis325
04-29-2017, 11:15 PM
You conn a ship. The conning officer, who is underneath the officer of the deck, is responsible for maneuvering the ship by issuing orders to the helmsman.

I'm pretty sure UNCheat has several "conning officers." They just conned their way to a natty.

quahog174
04-30-2017, 03:06 AM
I'm pretty sure UNCheat has several "conning officers." They just conned their way to a natty.

And they must have had a helmsman to win the Helms championship in 1924.

OldPhiKap
04-30-2017, 06:21 AM
I'm pretty sure UNCheat has several "conning officers." They just conned their way to a natty.


And they must have had a helmsman to win the Helms championship in 1924.

7384

Indoor66
04-30-2017, 06:36 AM
And they must have had a helmsman to win the Helms championship in 1924.

Actually, everyone on the '24 team was a Helmsman and that is where the idea for the long time Long Con that still goes on came about.

Green Wave Dukie
04-30-2017, 06:50 AM
I once drove my chevy to the levee, but the levee was dry.


OPK - I think I remember that. Weren't you singing "This will be the day the NCAA lays down the hammer"?

slower
04-30-2017, 06:54 AM
First, I wasn't dogging Kyrie or you. I just think what Kyrie did in a Duke uniform often gets overstated here. He was going to be a great college player but the untimely injury derailed that. He never even played a single conference game. Yes his numbers are great but again, 11 games. 8 Regular Season games and the 3 in the tourney.


With respect to all, Kyrie was special.

OldPhiKap
04-30-2017, 07:03 AM
OPK - I think I remember that. Weren't you singing "This will be the day the NCAA lays down the hammer"?

Yes, but still waiting.


With respect to all, Kyrie was special.

In the few games he played, Kyrie was as stunning and jaw-dropping as any player I've seen in Duke blue -- let alone a freshman.

FadedTackyShirt
04-30-2017, 07:58 AM
Personal opinion. the best freshmen point guards in Duke history (based entirely on freshman performance):

1. Tyus Jones, 2015
2. Jason Williams, 2000
3. Bobby Hurley 1990
4. Johnny Dawkins, 1983
5. Tommy Amaker, 1984
6. Jeff Capel, 1994
7. Chris Duhon, 2001
8. Greg Paulus, 2006

Great list. Tyus and JWill weren't 4 year players (same for Kyrie and Avery-not on list). Doubt Dawkins, Duhon, and Hurley would be 4 year players in this era.

Edouble
04-30-2017, 12:25 PM
Great list. Tyus and JWill weren't 4 year players (same for Kyrie and Avery-not on list). Doubt Dawkins, Duhon, and Hurley would be 4 year players in this era.

But Duhon came to Duke a year after Jason Williams.

Duhon played well into the era when guys stopped staying for four years. He might have been a first round pick after his freshman year, maybe... but he was never in the position that Jason Williams, Tyus, Kyrie and others were in as far as leaving early for the draft.

Olympic Fan
04-30-2017, 02:31 PM
Great list. Tyus and JWill weren't 4 year players (same for Kyrie and Avery-not on list). Doubt Dawkins, Duhon, and Hurley would be 4 year players in this era.

Avery was not on the list because he backed up Wojo as a freshman. He averaged 8.5 points and under three assists a game as a freshman. He blossomed as a sophomore.

And give JWill credit. He passed up the chance to be the No. 1 player taken after the 2001 season to come back and play as a junior.

I think if you were to rank the best point guards by career performance, it would be:

1. Bobby Hurley (4 years)
2. Jason Williams (3 years)
3. Tommy Amaker (four years)
4. Chris Duhon (4 years)
5. Steve Wojciechowski (4 years)
6. Quinn Cook (3 years at the point, 4 overall)
7. Quin Snyder (4 years)
8. Jon Scheyer (only a little over one year as a point)
9. Tyus Jones (only one year, but like Scheyer, he guided a national title team)

Dawkins really only played the point one year ... same as Avery. I think Dawkins and Amaker were different than Williams-Duhon, who really did share the point.

Green Wave Dukie
04-30-2017, 03:48 PM
Yes, but still waiting.



In the few games he played, Kyrie was as stunning and jaw-dropping as any player I've seen in Duke blue -- let alone a freshman.



Oh and while the NCAA was messing around
The Cheats stole the '17 title crown

The courtroom is still adjourned
And all DBR wonders when a verdict will be returned

NSDukeFan
04-30-2017, 07:34 PM
Oh and while the NCAA was messing around
The Cheats stole the '17 title crown

The courtroom is still adjourned
And all DBR wonders when a verdict will be returned

And the three men at the heart of this mess
Bubba, Roy and his royal Dean ness
They would blame women and never fess
The days the NC Way died

duketaylor
04-30-2017, 07:46 PM
Avery was not on the list because he backed up Wojo as a freshman. He averaged 8.5 points and under three assists a game as a freshman. He blossomed as a sophomore.

And give JWill credit. He passed up the chance to be the No. 1 player taken after the 2001 season to come back and play as a junior.

I think if you were to rank the best point guards by career performance, it would be:

1. Bobby Hurley (4 years)
2. Jason Williams (3 years)
3. Tommy Amaker (four years)
4. Chris Duhon (4 years)
5. Steve Wojciechowski (4 years)
6. Quinn Cook (3 years at the point, 4 overall)
7. Quin Snyder (4 years)
8. Jon Scheyer (only a little over one year as a point)
9. Tyus Jones (only one year, but like Scheyer, he guided a national title team)

Dawkins really only played the point one year ... same as Avery. I think Dawkins and Amaker were different than Williams-Duhon, who really did share the point.

I would ask, definition of PG. Distributor, scorer, defender, all 3? I like all 3 as my definition. Not saying I wouldn't question your list. I, though, would have JD in there somewhere, even though he only played point by himself for a year before Tommy got there and they were co-PGs, IMO. JD could out-create all the rest, IMO, except for maybe Kyrie (guessing 8 games don't really count). Maybe I'm off a little but I recall Amaker and JD playing lots of co-PG. I know TA would bring the ball upcourt more, but JD had tons of touches or would help get it into the frontcourt. Tommy was much less of a scorer.

UrinalCake
04-30-2017, 07:56 PM
I can think of a number of freshmen point guards who were handed the keys from day 1 - Tyus, Irving, Paulus, JWill, etc. Sometimes it's a matter of circumstance, and sometimes it's a case where the player really is that good. Tyus was the best example of the latter - we had an incumbent senior point guard in Cook, and we spent all summer that season debating which of the two would start at point, but in the end K saw that Tyus' talent level was enough to justify letting him run the team.

For this upcoming year we don't have another point guard on the roster, so if in fact K told Duval he would be the starting PG then I wouldn't necessarily take that to mean he is at the same elite level as some of our best PG's. He looks great in the mixtape videos, but I'm hesitant to make to much out of those. I do think he's going to be really really good, and he has all the physical tools, but whether he has the decision making and leadership qualities to run the team is something we won't really know until he starts playing in games.

CDu
05-01-2017, 08:16 AM
I can think of a number of freshmen point guards who were handed the keys from day 1 - Tyus, Irving, Paulus, JWill, etc. Sometimes it's a matter of circumstance, and sometimes it's a case where the player really is that good. Tyus was the best example of the latter - we had an incumbent senior point guard in Cook, and we spent all summer that season debating which of the two would start at point, but in the end K saw that Tyus' talent level was enough to justify letting him run the team.

For this upcoming year we don't have another point guard on the roster, so if in fact K told Duval he would be the starting PG then I wouldn't necessarily take that to mean he is at the same elite level as some of our best PG's. He looks great in the mixtape videos, but I'm hesitant to make to much out of those. I do think he's going to be really really good, and he has all the physical tools, but whether he has the decision making and leadership qualities to run the team is something we won't really know until he starts playing in games.

Yeah, from what I've seen, Duval doesn't strike much similarity at all to either Hurley or Irving. He's probably closer to Jason Williams in style if I had to stick with a former Duke PG. But really the guy who he most resembles to me is Derrick Rose: taller PG, extremely athletic, awful perimeter shooter, great at getting to the basket, reasonably capable passer but not superlative as a passer.

Jeffrey
05-01-2017, 11:05 AM
How could any poster compare these three? Hurley was great at Duke, Irving barely played at Duke, and Duval may never play at Duke.

COYS
05-01-2017, 11:55 AM
How could any poster compare these three? Hurley was great at Duke, Irving barely played at Duke, and Duval may never play at Duke.

I think the OP's post was a valid question even if the thread title is a little misleading. The poster was simply asking how often Coach K has publicly stated that he is "handing the keys" to an incoming freshman point guard. That is the thread that ties Hurley, Irving, and (hopefully) Duval together. I think the poster was wondering if we could expect the same sort of impact from Duval that Hurley and Irving provided their freshmen seasons (Hurley was a game changer but uneven his freshmen season, Irving was sensational but was also injured for most of the year, but both were clearly big time talents capable of transforming Duke's offense).

My 2 cents on this issue: Coach K has not publicly said anything about Duval, yet (I'm pretty sure it would be a recruiting violation, actually). However, Coach K regularly tells recruits privately how he sees them featuring in the offense. I think the particular language ("handing the keys") has more to do with the fact that this is a phrase commonly used for Duval's position than, say, for a wing player like Ingram or Tatum.

If, hypothetically, Duval ends up choosing Duke and we hear Coach K make public remarks about "handing the keys" over to Duval, I think that actually is significant. Coach K is a master motivator and he also talks about the team and individual players having a healthy "ego." I think if he were to talk Duval up, it would be to make sure he knows how special K thinks he can be, not unlike how Coach K talked up Kyrie in the 2010 offseason.

That being said, I think K also has a strong read on his players and uses different tactics. He didn't use the same method with Tyus even though Tyus was also clearly worthy of getting the keys from day one. I wonder if that is because he preferred to talk up Quinn and his important leadership role. When Kyrie joined Duke, Nolan was much more accomplished heading into his senior season (NCCAT Champion, West Regional MOP, big time scorer, etc.) than Quinn was. Perhaps K thought it was fine to talk up Kyrie without worrying about harming Nolan's confidence. On the other hand, K needed Quinn to be a senior leader and the emotional heart and soul of the team.

Ultimately, while I think it is possible to glean a little bit about what K expects Duval to do on the court based on how he talks about him to the media, I think Ks word choices will have more to do with setting up the team, psychologically. Duval is a top 10 recruit in a good (not sensational) class. He clearly has a lot of talent. Regardless of what K says about him to the media, I would expect him to have a good season.

CDu
05-01-2017, 11:59 AM
My 2 cents on this issue: Coach K has not publicly said anything about Duval, yet (I'm pretty sure it would be a recruiting violation, actually). However, Coach K regularly tells recruits privately how he sees them featuring in the offense. I think the particular language ("handing the keys") has more to do with the fact that this is a phrase commonly used for Duval's position than, say, for a wing player like Ingram or Tatum.

Coach K has not said it publicly because you are not allowed to talk about recruits publicly. But Duval has said as much:

http://usatodayhss.com/2017/the-trevon-duval-blog-duke-and-kansas-visits-dicks-nationals-and-more

Specifically:


I could tell that they were genuine and they meant what they were saying. Itís attractive when I have Coach K telling me that Iím gonna have the keys in my hand.

Olympic Fan
05-01-2017, 12:07 PM
Yeah, from what I've seen, Duval doesn't strike much similarity at all to either Hurley or Irving. He's probably closer to Jason Williams in style if I had to stick with a former Duke PG. But really the guy who he most resembles to me is Derrick Rose: taller PG, extremely athletic, awful perimeter shooter, great at getting to the basket, reasonably capable passer but not superlative as a passer.

I said it earlier in this thread, but I think in terms of his game, Duval most closely resembles Tommy Amaker. I don't think Rose or JWill are good comps at all. Physically, esy (although Duval is 0.5 inches taller than Rose and

Duval is a distributor, penetrator, but not a scorer. Rose was (like Duval) not a great perimeter shooter. But he was a big-time scorer from day one (he averaged 15 ppg in his one season at Memphis). R9ose -- like JWill -- was a scoring point. Duval is a pass-first guy. I'll bet that (if he comes and stays healthy) he will average less points than Rose, but more than the 4.7 assists that Rose averaged.

We'll have to see how good he is at on-the-ball defense -- Amaker was pretty good at that as a freshman and VERY good as his career went forward.

PS CDu, I think we'll have to disagree over his passing skill. I hope you are not making that judgment "reasonably capable passer, but not superlative" based on what we saw in the all-star games.

Rich
05-01-2017, 12:44 PM
If, hypothetically, Duval ends up choosing Duke and we hear Coach K make public remarks about "handing the keys" over to Duval, I think that actually is significant. Coach K is a master motivator and he also talks about the team and individual players having a healthy "ego." I think if he were to talk Duval up, it would be to make sure he knows how special K thinks he can be, not unlike how Coach K talked up Kyrie in the 2010 offseason.

That being said, I think K also has a strong read on his players and uses different tactics. He didn't use the same method with Tyus even though Tyus was also clearly worthy of getting the keys from day one. I wonder if that is because he preferred to talk up Quinn and his important leadership role. When Kyrie joined Duke, Nolan was much more accomplished heading into his senior season (NCCAT Champion, West Regional MOP, big time scorer, etc.) than Quinn was. Perhaps K thought it was fine to talk up Kyrie without worrying about harming Nolan's confidence. On the other hand, K needed Quinn to be a senior leader and the emotional heart and soul of the team.

Ultimately, while I think it is possible to glean a little bit about what K expects Duval to do on the court based on how he talks about him to the media, I think Ks word choices will have more to do with setting up the team, psychologically. Duval is a top 10 recruit in a good (not sensational) class. He clearly has a lot of talent. Regardless of what K says about him to the media, I would expect him to have a good season.

I agree, but would add that K is also a master communicator. While he says these things to the media and to recruits, I have no doubt he's also telling the current players and leaders what he's doing and why. For instance, I would be surprised if he didn't have private, behind the scenes, one-on-one conversations with Quinn about his and Tyus's roles and Nolan about his and Kyrie's role as well as what he planned to say to the media (and why) and what he was telling Tyus and Kyrie, respectively, all for the betterment of the team.

CDu
05-01-2017, 12:54 PM
I said it earlier in this thread, but I think in terms of his game, Duval most closely resembles Tommy Amaker. I don't think Rose or JWill are good comps at all. Physically, esy (although Duval is 0.5 inches taller than Rose and

Duval is a distributor, penetrator, but not a scorer. Rose was (like Duval) not a great perimeter shooter. But he was a big-time scorer from day one (he averaged 15 ppg in his one season at Memphis). R9ose -- like JWill -- was a scoring point. Duval is a pass-first guy. I'll bet that (if he comes and stays healthy) he will average less points than Rose, but more than the 4.7 assists that Rose averaged.

We'll have to see how good he is at on-the-ball defense -- Amaker was pretty good at that as a freshman and VERY good as his career went forward.

PS CDu, I think we'll have to disagree over his passing skill. I hope you are not making that judgment "reasonably capable passer, but not superlative" based on what we saw in the all-star games.

No, I'm not making that judgement based on what we saw in the All-Star games (I didn't even watch the Hoops Summit or Jordan Classic). I'm making it based on what I've read about Duval from various scouting services, which say he is not an instinctive or fundamentally sound passer, and doesn't always have a good feel for the pass. The thing that seems to consistently stand out in scouting reports of him is his ballhandling and combination of size and athleticism, as well as his lack of a jumpshot. Which is what immediately drew me to the Rose comparison.

I'm also not sure I agree with the Amaker comp. Amaker was much smaller, and largely a nonfactor as a scorer (averaging 6-8 ppg until his senior year). But he was a superlative defender pretty much from day 1. Everything I've read on Duval says he has the physical tools to be a good/great defender, but hasn't shown it consistently on that end. Which is another reason I said I think Rose is a good comp.

Now, he may or may not be as effective a scorer as Rose was, and he may be a better passer than Rose was. But I still think that is a much closer comp than Hurley or Irving or Amaker.

COYS
05-01-2017, 01:00 PM
Coach K has not said it publicly because you are not allowed to talk about recruits publicly. But Duval has said as much:

http://usatodayhss.com/2017/the-trevon-duval-blog-duke-and-kansas-visits-dicks-nationals-and-more

Specifically:

Right, I know. I even said as much in the part of my post that you quoted. My point is that he probably says things like this to recruits privately all the time. However there are only a few instances in which Coach K himself has said something publicly about an incoming point guard. I wasn't old enough to be aware of K talking up Hurley before he played at Duke, but it did seem that K was particularly strong in his praise for Kyrie's ability to lead the offense. I still believe that this has more to do with pushing the right buttons for motivation than anything else. Still, if Coach K begins to talk about Duval in the same terms as he did Kyrie in the summer of 2010, that does seem an indicator (caveat: sample size of 1) that K and the staff expect Duval to be a top performer right out of the gate.

Edit: I think K is serious when he tells recruits, privately, that they will have the keys to the offense. I just think he is very careful about when and how to praise an incoming recruit, publicly.

CDu
05-01-2017, 01:05 PM
Right, I know. I even said as much in the part of my post that you quoted. My point is that he probably says things like this to recruits privately all the time. However there are only a few instances in which Coach K himself has said something publicly about an incoming point guard. I wasn't old enough to be aware of K talking up Hurley before he played at Duke, but it did seem that K was particularly strong in his praise for Kyrie's ability to lead the offense. I still believe that this has more to do with pushing the right buttons for motivation than anything else. Still, if Coach K begins to talk about Duval in the same terms as he did Kyrie in the summer of 2010, that does seem an indicator (caveat: sample size of 1) that K and the staff expect Duval to be a top performer right out of the gate.

Edit: I think K is serious when he tells recruits, privately, that they will have the keys to the offense. I just think he is very careful about when and how to praise an incoming recruit, publicly.

He didn't talk up Hurley prior to Hurley coming to Duke, as that would be a violation of NCAA rules. If Duval commits to Duke and arrives on campus, then we may or may not hear Coach K give him such praise.

El_Diablo
05-01-2017, 02:02 PM
He didn't talk up Hurley prior to Hurley coming to Duke, as that would be a violation of NCAA rules. If Duval commits to Duke and arrives on campus, then we may or may not hear Coach K give him such praise.

Coaches can talk about recruits after they sign an LOI.

Olympic Fan
05-01-2017, 02:36 PM
Coaches can talk about recruits after they sign an LOI.

yes and no.

WHEN a prospect signs a LOI, a coach has one window to comment on the recruit. After that, he can't talk about the kid to the media until he arrives on campus and actually attends a class -- so at Duke, that's usually early in July.

I was at the July press conference in 2010 when K broke his silence in Kyrie and essentially told us that he was building the team's offense around Irving's skills.

devildeac
05-01-2017, 02:51 PM
yes and no.

WHEN a prospect signs a LOI, a coach has one window to comment on the recruit. After that, he can't talk about the kid to the media until he arrives on campus and actually attends a class -- so at Duke, that's usually early in July.

I was at the July press conference in 2010 when K broke his silence in Kyrie and essentially told us that he was building the team's offense around Irving's skills.

How might that affect a unc recruit? :rolleyes:

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
05-01-2017, 03:27 PM
How might that affect a unc recruit? :rolleyes:

These are NCAA rules, and clearly UNC isn't concerned about NCAA rules.

brevity
05-01-2017, 05:41 PM
After that, he can't talk about the kid to the media until he arrives on campus and actually attends a class -- so at Duke, that's usually early in July.


How might that affect a unc recruit? :rolleyes:

Not an issue. Roy just likes to talk about Roy.

Dukehky
05-01-2017, 07:28 PM
Personal opinion. the best freshmen point guards in Duke history (based entirely on freshman performance):

1. Tyus Jones, 2015
2. Jason Williams, 2000
3. Bobby Hurley 1990
4. Johnny Dawkins, 1983
5. Tommy Amaker, 1984
6. Jeff Capel, 1994
7. Chris Duhon, 2001
8. Greg Paulus, 2006


Note: Kyrie Irving was on pace to be No. 1, but I agree that 11 games (eight as a starter, three as a sub) aren't quite enough. Duhon was tough to slot because he only started 10 games, but he was a top sub for the other 28. I once asked Jeff Capel who was the point guard in 1994 -- him or Collins? He answered with one word: Grant! Grant did lead that team in assists, but Capel led the guards in assists by a wide margin and usually guarded the opposing point guard.


From my limited exposure to Mr. Duval, I would guess that if he comes and has a healthy year, he'll slot in that list just before or behind Tommy Amaker. Both great distributors with a lot of defensive potential, but neither is much of a shooter (Amaker didn't hit double figures until his senior year).

I'd take Tommy Amaker II ...


I know this has been discussed ad nauseam, but if it weren't for Matt Howard's big dumb foot, Kyrie Irving is by far number one on that list and Duke goes back to back, and I'm not sure they lose more than one or two games, if that. We were stupid good.

Bay Area Duke Fan
05-01-2017, 07:46 PM
I know this has been discussed ad nauseam, but if it weren't for Matt Howard's big dumb foot, Kyrie Irving is by far number one on that list and Duke goes back to back, and I'm not sure they lose more than one or two games, if that. We were stupid good.

Maybe ... or maybe not.

Duke76
05-01-2017, 07:50 PM
I know this has been discussed ad nauseam, but if it weren't for Matt Howard's big dumb foot, Kyrie Irving is by far number one on that list and Duke goes back to back, and I'm not sure they lose more than one or two games, if that. We were stupid good.

I can see it now,,,that goon who set the pick on Singler the year before shoved his foot out there...reminds me of when I was playing in my 40's and this guy intentionally came up under me on a jump shot and I can down on his foot rolling my ankle for like the 10th and final time ending my recreational playing career, agree 100% w your conclusion...

UrinalCake
05-01-2017, 08:53 PM
Coach K has not said it publicly because you are not allowed to talk about recruits publicly. But Duval has said as much:

"I could tell that they were genuine and they meant what they were saying. Itís attractive when I have Coach K telling me that Iím gonna have the keys in my hand."



I believe in another interview he said that all of the schools recruiting him told him essentially the same thing, that it would be his team to run from day 1.

Dukehky
05-01-2017, 11:05 PM
Maybe ... or maybe not.

Really awesome contribution!

Duval's gonna be good, hopefully this season will be fun.

CDu
05-02-2017, 07:30 AM
I believe in another interview he said that all of the schools recruiting him told him essentially the same thing, that it would be his team to run from day 1.

No disagreement there. Was just pointing out that Coach K had said it at all, not that he said it exclusively.

El_Diablo
05-17-2017, 02:16 PM
yes and no.

WHEN a prospect signs a LOI, a coach has one window to comment on the recruit. After that, he can't talk about the kid to the media until he arrives on campus and actually attends a class -- so at Duke, that's usually early in July.

I was at the July press conference in 2010 when K broke his silence in Kyrie and essentially told us that he was building the team's offense around Irving's skills.

This is incorrect. After a prospect signs an LOI, there are no publicity restrictions.

Here is the relevant bylaw:

13.10.3 Publicity After Commitment. There are no restrictions on publicity related to a prospective student-athlete after he or she has signed a National Letter of Intent or the institution's written offer of admission and/or financial aid or after the institution has received his or her financial deposit in response to its offer of admission, except as set forth in Bylaw 13.10.1. For institutions that subscribe to the National Letter of Intent program, this provision does not apply to a prospective student-athlete who only signs an institution's written offer of admission and/or financial aid prior to the initial regular (as opposed to early) signing date of the National Letter of Intent program in the applicable sport. [D] (Revised: 1/14/97, 4/29/04 effective 8/1/04, 8/25/04, 1/19/13 effective 8/1/13, 4/28/16 effective 8/1/16)

https://web3.ncaa.org/lsdbi/search/bylawView?id=33816