ACC Coaches Comparison (Off Season Fodder)

[ipatent]

Who was better...

Dean or Roy?
Norm Sloan or Gary Williams?
Terry Holland or Bobby Cremins?

[PackMan97]

All I know is Kevin Keatts is the best coach in the ACC! No one else has perfect record ;)

[niveklaen]

Who was better...

Dean or Roy?
Norm Sloan or Gary Williams?
Terry Holland or Bobby Cremins?

Roy, more titles in fewer years

Gary sweats out a narrow victory

Cremins over Holland

Sendik over all nc st coaches not named valvano

[PackMan97]

Sendik over all nc st coaches not named valvano

Reported for trolling.

[weezie]

Josh Pastner was no slouch. Sure did some good work.

Whoops, I thought we meant current. Sorry. But Holland was awful and I can't cough up a hairball on either nose or huck. Meeehhh I guess Gary.

[ipatent]

But Holland was awful and I can't cough up a hairball on either nose or huck. Meeehhh I guess Gary.

Holland didn't win the national championship with Ralph Sampson, but that was probably the most talent laden field in the history of college hoops. He had very good teams with Jeff Lamp before Sampson and went to the final four the year after Sampson left.

Can't remember if he was the coach when the Marc Iavoroni team won the ACC title.

[royalblue]

Terry Holland named his dog "Dean" because it whined all the
time so in my book he is just fine.

[jv001]

Roy, more titles in fewer years

Gary sweats out a narrow victory

Cremins over Holland

Sendik over all nc st coaches not named valvano

Norm Sloan wasn't bad for the Wolfpack. Matter of fact he was a good coach and recruiter. GoDuke!

[Olympic Fan]

Norm Sloan wasn't bad for the Wolfpack. Matter of fact he was a good coach and recruiter. GoDuke!

Has anybody ever heard of a guy named Everett Case?

State won national championships with Sloan and Valvano

But they won nine conference titles in 10 years under Case (10 overall).

[ipatent]

Has anybody ever heard of a guy named Everett Case?

State won national championships with Sloan and Valvano

But they won nine conference titles in 10 years under Case (10 overall).

Wasn't Vic Bubas part of the Case coaching tree?

[davekay1971]

Wasn't Vic Bubas part of the Case coaching tree?

Yes. And Case also deserves credit for elevating North Carolina basketball to king. Al Featherston's book "Tobacco Road" is a must read for anyone with an interest in the history of ACC and NC college basketball. NC State hired Case, who came from basketball rich Indiana, and elevated NCSU to dominate Southern Conference basketball. That caused UNC to hire their first prominent cheater, Frank McGuire, to catch up. Duke eventually hired Bubas, who was a Case assistant. After Case retired, NC State dropped to 3rd among those 3 until Sloan brought them back up. Sloan won one title...but he could easily have won back to back had NCSU not been on probation during the year before State won. There was this guy named David Thompson, you see... Sloan also recruited Thurl Bailey, Derek Whittenburg, and Sidney Lowe.

Also, a quibble about Roy and Dean. They're tied at one championship each...one each that didn't involve ineligible players. But I'll give Dean the nod between those two coaches. After all, he inspired the shot clock.

[jv001]

Has anybody ever heard of a guy named Everett Case?

State won national championships with Sloan and Valvano

But they won nine conference titles in 10 years under Case (10 overall).

Man, my mind isn't what it once was. Coach Case brought big time basketball to the South. Well, at least as far as I'm concerned. GoDuke!

[zippy_the_cat]

After Case retired, NC State dropped to 3rd among those 3 until Sloan brought them back up. Sloan won one title...but he could easily have won back to back had NCSU not been on probation during the year before State won. There was this guy named David Thompson, you see... Sloan also recruited Thurl Bailey, Derek Whittenburg, and Sidney Lowe.

I've always rated Sloan above Valvano, personally, given that V won with Norm's players and, you know, the whole 70s thing. Beating the Walton-era UCLA team is sort of a highlight for North Carolina sports.

[Olympic Fan]

I've always rated Sloan above Valvano, personally, given that V won with Norm's players and, you know, the whole 70s thing. Beating the Walton-era UCLA team is sort of a highlight for North Carolina sports.

Well, let's match the two up:

National titles: 1-1 (and, as you point out, Valvano win with Norm's recruits)
Final Fours: 1-1
Elite Eight: Valvano 3, Sloan 1
Sweet 16: Valvano 4, Sloan 1
NCAA record: Valvano 14-6; Sloan 5-2 (note: Sloan coached most of his time at State when just one, then two ACC teams could go to the NCAAs; so Valvano has more NCAA wins, but Sloan actually has a better NCAA winning percentage)
Conference titles: Sloan 3 in 14 years (14-11 in ACC tournament play); Valvano 2 in 10 years (9-8 in ACC Tournament play
Overall ACC record: Sloan 103-77 (.573); Valvano 71-69 (.501)
Overall record: Sloan 266-177 (.677), Valvano 209-114 (.647)

To me, it looks like Sloan is the second-best coach in State history.

[sagegrouse]

Well, let's match the two up:

National titles: 1-1 (and, as you point out, Valvano win with Norm's recruits)
Final Fours: 1-1
Elite Eight: Valvano 3, Sloan 1
Sweet 16: Valvano 4, Sloan 1
NCAA record: Valvano 14-6; Sloan 5-2 (note: Sloan coached most of his time at State when just one, then two ACC teams could go to the NCAAs; so Valvano has more NCAA wins, but Sloan actually has a better NCAA winning percentage)
Conference titles: Sloan 3 in 14 years (14-11 in ACC tournament play); Valvano 2 in 10 years (9-8 in ACC Tournament play
Overall ACC record: Sloan 103-77 (.573); Valvano 71-69 (.501)
Overall record: Sloan 266-177 (.677), Valvano 209-114 (.647)

To me, it looks like Sloan is the second-best coach in State history.

Different eras in terms of NCAA tournament participation.

[Olympic Fan]

Different eras in terms of NCAA tournament participation.

Absolutely, as I thought I noted.

Sloan's great 1974 team "only" got to win four games en route to the national title. They missed on the two extra wins that team would have gotten under the modern format.

And the unbeaten 1973 team would have almost certainly been a Final Four team if it were allowed to compete.

I should have noted that both coaches earned NCAA probation and a post-season ban.

[niveklaen]

Reported for trolling.

LOL - my ignorance shows - I was unaware of the success of Case and Sloan - I should have said Herb over every other NC St coach since Valvano...

[ipatent]

The differences in tournament eligibility and length of season have to be taken into account when comparing coaching records before the mid-70s to the present. Lefty Driesell is a case in point, he had the second best team in the country one year, a likely final four team or NCAA championship team in this era, and it sat home after losing to NC State in the ACC Tournament. If you don't consider that, his record looks a lot like Leonard Hamilton's.