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View Full Version : Grayson Allen will have a Senior Night



Troublemaker
04-18-2017, 04:21 PM
http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22724&SPID=1845&DB_LANG=C&ATCLID=211564499&DB_OEM_ID=4200

“The last few weeks have provided the opportunity for a lot of reflection and prayer,” Allen said. “I’m a firm believer that when something feels right, you go with it. The chance to play with next year’s team just felt right. I’m completely focused on helping Coach K and our staff lead this team to a special season. I love being a Duke student, and continuing to be part of the university culture is something I don’t take for granted.”

LasVegas
04-18-2017, 04:23 PM
Here's to an injury free and POY season.

grossbus
04-18-2017, 04:23 PM
yes! Go Duke!

kAzE
04-18-2017, 04:24 PM
Could not be happier. Seriously. We're back in business!!

jv001
04-18-2017, 04:25 PM
That's great news. Thanks Grayson for staying for your senior year. Things just got a little brighter. And, Thanks Troublemaker for the link. GoDuke!

Devils Librarian
04-18-2017, 04:26 PM
Woooooooooohooooooooooo! WOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

4Gen
04-18-2017, 04:26 PM
I adore Grayson on so many levels. I'm so happy to be graced with his play for another year. Hang that jersey Grayson. And, I wouldn't want to guard you.

Newton_14
04-18-2017, 04:28 PM
This is awesome and to all his haters.. well....in the words of Jake Harper "You Know (BIg Grin) You Know"


Long Live #3.... May you hang in Cameron until the end of times!!

Go Duke!

flyingdutchdevil
04-18-2017, 04:31 PM
Very excited for the young man.

Now go get a free masters degree and win Duke another natty! ;)

Troublemaker
04-18-2017, 04:34 PM
“I love being a Duke student, and continuing to be part of the university culture is something I don’t take for granted.”

You're my hero, Grayson. My superhero really.

I wonder if Grayson's conversations with his parents about his final year of eligibility went something like this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7mMDKBkKog

(Sorry, I recently rewatched the Dark Knight trilogy, which is why I keep referencing it...)

WiJoe
04-18-2017, 04:35 PM
Attaboy, Grayson !!!!

You'll get a prolonged standing O at the banquet. I'll be crying through all of it.

mattman91
04-18-2017, 04:35 PM
*raises Stone Enjoy by 4/20 IPA*

To Grayson!

ndkjr70
04-18-2017, 04:36 PM
Words cannot describe how happy I am. Go get yourself another ring, kid.

wsb3
04-18-2017, 04:40 PM
My first 3 words when I saw this. Praise the Lord...:)

DavidBenAkiva
04-18-2017, 04:40 PM
Fantastic news. Wouldn't it be something if Allen plays healthy and returns to his All-American self during his senior season? I'm rooting for the kid.

FadedTackyShirt
04-18-2017, 04:40 PM
Stoked for Nick Horvath. His jersey retirement is long overdue...

CDu
04-18-2017, 04:40 PM
Here's hoping for better health so that he can inflict pain on his opponents!

OZZIE4DUKE
04-18-2017, 04:42 PM
Yahooooooooooo! LGD! GTHc!

PackMan97
04-18-2017, 04:43 PM
All my Duke friends are tripping over themselves with happiness!

:)

Glad to see he gets a chance at redemption.

mattman91
04-18-2017, 04:44 PM
OK....so theoretically speaking...if we play 40 games (and win the natty of course) he needs to score about 36ppg to be the ACC's all time leading scorer, taking the title back from the mouth breathing idiot.

:)

Doria
04-18-2017, 04:48 PM
I'm so happy! Can't wait for him to have a GREAT senior season. Win or lose, I know he'll leave it all on the court. Tremendous kid, and I'm glad he'll get to enjoy a senior year! Thank, Troublemaker for that link!

OZ
04-18-2017, 04:49 PM
All my Duke friends are tripping over themselves with happiness!

:)

Glad to see he gets a chance at redemption.


It is difficult not too; especially, when you are jumping up and down with a beer in your hand.

flyingdutchdevil
04-18-2017, 04:50 PM
Here's hoping for better health so that he can inflict pain on his opponents!

Hopefully in the emotional sense. Not the physical sense... ;)

kAzE
04-18-2017, 04:54 PM
Hopefully in the emotional sense. Not the physical sense... ;)

Hey, I'm fine with it, as long as it's within the rules of basketball and is nothing resembling tripping . . . .

I wouldn't want to take a charge on Grayson Allen with a full head of steam.

WHOneedsSOX
04-18-2017, 04:57 PM
College basketball gets its biggest villain back. ESPN couldn't be happier.

Really though, so happy he's coming back. Exactly what this team needs. Loved reading about how he always wanted to go to Duke and now he'll be a 4 year player there. Hopefully it's an incident free year with a few more rings, a few more banners, and an improved draft stock.

Billy Dat
04-18-2017, 04:58 PM
HUGE News - we may never see another 4 year player with this level of talent! My gut says this decision will pay off for him in a very positive way. Here's to another chance for him to lead and leave on a high note in both performance and comportment.

DevilFalcon
04-18-2017, 05:00 PM
7353

B/R sure put up a flattering photo with their notification of this.... Definitely trying to push the Villain part.

Sooooo glad you are back Grayson. Fix your image, work on a grad degree, improve your stock, and win another chip! Come in with a bang (title) and go out with a bang!

DukeTrinity11
04-18-2017, 05:04 PM
He"ll be Coach K's last impact senior in my opinion unfortunately due to times we live in.

Atta boy Grayson, time to get redemption next year and cut down the nets!!

kAzE
04-18-2017, 05:06 PM
He"ll be Coach K's last impact senior in my opinion unfortunately due to times we live in.

Atta boy Grayson, time to get redemption next year and cut down the nets!!

I don't think so . . . Javin DeLaurier might have something to say about that.

flyingdutchdevil
04-18-2017, 05:07 PM
He"ll be Coach K's last impact senior in my opinion unfortunately due to times we live in.

Atta boy Grayson, time to get redemption next year and cut down the nets!!

Javin DeLaurier. First team All-American, 2019-20.

Mark it down. You heard it here first.

mattman91
04-18-2017, 05:09 PM
Javin DeLaurier. First team All-American, 2019-20.

Mark it down. You heard it here first.

Vrank will beat him for that 2018-19 :)

kAzE
04-18-2017, 05:09 PM
Javin DeLaurier. First team All-American, 2019-20.

Mark it down. You heard it here first.

Wow . . I was thinking maybe 1st or 2nd team All-ACC . . . that is bold. He would need to at least make a pretty big leap next year to be on track to reach that level, I think. I'm rooting for it though.

But back to the news of the day:

ALL OUT x4!!!!

atoomer0881
04-18-2017, 05:10 PM
So incredibly thrilled!!!!!!!!!! This is the absolute best news I've gotten (and will get) this week! This is always the toughest part of the off-season, waiting to see who returns, who leaves, and who signs with us. Now that we locked up G, gotta go get Duval! Things are looking up for next year I think :-)

devildeac
04-18-2017, 05:11 PM
Javin DeLaurier. First team All-American, 2019-20.

Mark it down. You heard it here first.

Now that's a bet richardjackson199 might even take and win. :rolleyes:

DukeDevil
04-18-2017, 05:13 PM
Now that's a bet richardjackson199 might even take and win. :rolleyes:

Having played poker with Rich, I can confirm there's not a hand that he isn't interested in playing, or a bet he won't take.

Glad to have some good news today!!!

InSpades
04-18-2017, 05:13 PM
That's a BIG piece of the puzzle fitting in for next year.

Sincerely hope he comes back and blows his sophomore year out of the water w/ a JJ-esque senior year.

If we can fit in a few more pieces... look out. Maybe they can live up to the hype that last year's team couldn't quite match!

DukeTrinity11
04-18-2017, 05:14 PM
I don't think so . . . Javin DeLaurier might have something to say about that.
Lets hope he gets some playing time next year then. :D

NM Duke Fan
04-18-2017, 05:14 PM
He took his time. He Listened to his Gut and his Heart. In a way it was also a costs-benefits decision. He made a courageous decision, knowing the scrutiny and pressures he will face, but also knowing very clearly his values, priorities, and what he really wanted in Life right now (Many people could learn a thing or two from him).

He truly has an excellent chance of having one of the most remarkable seasons in college basketball in a long time as a Senior Leader, and all the more power to him on this Journey!

flyingdutchdevil
04-18-2017, 05:15 PM
I don't think so . . . Javin DeLaurier might have something to say about that.

Lol. We're on the same page.

dukelifer
04-18-2017, 05:23 PM
Excellent news. Gets to be a Cook-like senior leader- gets to rebuild his image and gets to re-establish himself as a possible first round pick. He will be the man next year at Duke and I think it will make all the difference for this young squad.

richardjackson199
04-18-2017, 05:26 PM
Having played poker with Rich, I can confirm there's not a hand that he isn't interested in playing, or a bet he won't take.

Glad to have some good news today!!!

True on all counts. Remember, if you fold, you can't win.

I'm so elated to see Grayson return. He is one of my all-time favorite Duke players. I'd love nothing more than to see him have the senior year he deserves - Natty #2; NPOY; Captain; and good first round draft stock. If we get Duval, Bamba, and Knox (I know, seems unlikely). But if we do, I'll bet on good things from next year's team. And I need to lose more beer to somebody. (And I really need to start playing poker again!)

Go Duke! Now let's get some stud recruits.

UNCfan
04-18-2017, 05:26 PM
Does this help or hurt with Knox? I think a soph Jackson is better than a frosh Knox.

flyingdutchdevil
04-18-2017, 05:26 PM
Excellent news. Gets to be a Cook-like senior leader- gets to rebuild his image and gets to re-establish himself as a possible first round pick. He will be the man next year at Duke and I think it will make all the difference for this young squad.

Yeah. I like all of these.

Can we add medical school degree, law degree, and MBA to it? ;)

JNort
04-18-2017, 05:26 PM
He"ll be Coach K's last impact senior in my opinion unfortunately due to times we live in.

Atta boy Grayson, time to get redemption next year and cut down the nets!!
Frank Jackson?

mark34
04-18-2017, 05:27 PM
Just... yay!!!!

One of my favorite players of all time. So excited to watch Grayson for another year.

flyingdutchdevil
04-18-2017, 05:31 PM
Does this help or hurt with Knox? I think a soph Jackson is better than a frosh Knox.

I don't think so. If Knox came to Duke, he'd play the 4 and maybe some 3. Grayson will play the 1-3 exclusively, and probably more 1/2 than 3.

If Duval commits, then it means that Duval/Jackson/Allen/Trent share the 1-3 exclusively and Carter/Bolden/Knox share the 4-5. So that means that Knox's minutes - or Bolden's - are limited.

kAzE
04-18-2017, 05:34 PM
Frank Jackson?

I think most of us would agree Frank is gone after 2 years, at most 3. I would be shocked if Frank stayed all 4 years.

slower
04-18-2017, 05:51 PM
Long Live #3... May you hang in Cameron until the end of times!!

Go Duke!
Amen to that!

This kid is my favorite Duke player of all time - not even close. After what he had to endure this year, for him to come back and take even more unwarranted abuse next year is the stuff of legend.

He has the heart of a freaking lion.

rsvman
04-18-2017, 05:52 PM
This is outstanding news!

I've been checking DBR several times day for a couple of weeks, hoping to find this!


Woooooo-hoooooooo!!!!! Go Grayson! Go Duke!!!

chriso
04-18-2017, 06:00 PM
This is outstanding news!

I've been checking DBR several times day for a couple of weeks, hoping to find this!


Woooooo-hoooooooo!!!!! Go Grayson! Go Duke!!!

Great news. Always thought getting one of Grayson/Luke back was the key. Grayson is so loyal to Duke; it's rather touching in this day and age. Now we're top 10 preseason for sure. Anything else is gravy. :cool:

DukieInKansas
04-18-2017, 06:07 PM
This is even better news than knowing that tax season is over today!

Glad you will be putting on a Duke jersey for another year, Grayson!

flyingdutchdevil
04-18-2017, 06:09 PM
This is even better news than knowing that tax season is over today!

Glad you will be putting on a Duke jersey for another year, Grayson!

Nope. A colonoscopy is better than tax season. I got murdered by the tax man....

Allen coming back is fantastic. If he can regain 100% health, gain that bulkiness back that he had during his sophomore year, and focus on D, he'll be a load. I'm calling it - 1st or 2nd team All-American.

Olympic Fan
04-18-2017, 06:18 PM
I know it's silly, but I can't help myself. Knowing Grayson I coming back, I started looking at some numbers.

Grayson has 1,424 points in his first three years. He had a great chance -- if he stays healthy -- to become Duke's 12th 2,000-point career scorer. He has a great chance to pass Jon Scheyer (2,077) and crack the top 10. If he could match his sophomore season (779 points), he would wind up sixth in Duke history (just behind Mike Gminski and just ahead of Danny Ferry).

The best part of his return is that he gives next year's team an upperclass leader. The only other upperclassman on next year's roster will be Antonio Vrankovic, who has played all of115minutes in his career.

NYBri
04-18-2017, 06:29 PM
I was so tired of bad news! :cool:

JasonEvans
04-18-2017, 06:33 PM
I know it's silly, but I can't help myself. Knowing Grayson I coming back, I started looking at some numbers.

Grayson has 1,424 points in his first three years. He had a great chance -- if he stays healthy -- to become Duke's 12th 2,000-point career scorer. He has a great chance to pass Jon Scheyer (2,077) and crack the top 10. If he could match his sophomore season (779 points), he would wind up sixth in Duke history (just behind Mike Gminski and just ahead of Danny Ferry).

The best part of his return is that he gives next year's team an upperclass leader. The only other upperclassman on next year's roster will be Antonio Vrankovic, who has played all of115minutes in his career.

I was just going to post something about Grayson's excellent chances at becoming a 2000 point scorer... but I see Oly beat me to it.

I had thought Kennard would be Duke's next 2K scorer, but he turned out even better than I thought and so he did not last. Folks, enjoy this! Having a guy this good for 4 years is a true rarity in college hoops. Here's to him being injury free next year... because the Grayson we saw last season wasn't nearly the player he can be.

-Jason "I have come to believe that health is the single most important thing to our annual success... this past season was a master class in that lesson" Evans

Ultrarunner
04-18-2017, 06:44 PM
I am really happy to see Grayson return to Duke next year. My hope is that by the end of next season, he will wear another championship ring, repeat as an Academic All-American, and be honored for the fine young man he is.

I've never attended a game in Cameron. I should remedy that personal failing next season.

bbosbbos
04-18-2017, 06:53 PM
Grayson, we love you!

CDu
04-18-2017, 06:56 PM
Does this help or hurt with Knox? I think a soph Jackson is better than a frosh Knox.

They play different positions.

RepoMan
04-18-2017, 06:58 PM
Great news! The kid deserves an injury free season. I hope he gets it!

lotusland
04-18-2017, 07:04 PM
Great news - can't wait to see GA lead the way next year!

Duke76
04-18-2017, 07:42 PM
Excellent news. Gets to be a Cook-like senior leader- gets to rebuild his image and gets to re-establish himself as a possible first round pick. He will be the man next year at Duke and I think it will make all the difference for this young squad.

in the great tradition of others before him...deep in his heart he relishes the responsibility of "paying it forward" to the freshmen coming in and for that he will be rewarded maybe in more ways than one. Regardless of how it turns out next year, this is his shining moment in many of our eyes

scottdude8
04-18-2017, 07:49 PM
My hope coming into the 2016-2017 season was to see Grayson earn the first retired jersey since I stepped foot in Durham. Excited to say I (and we all) get a second chance to see that happen.

A Duval/Allen/Jackson starting backcourt with a super sixth man in Trent has insane potential. Even if we miss on Duval or something weird happens with Jackson that's still incredible. A week ago when Luke declared I was getting to the point where I wasn't looking forward to next season with my typical fervor. Now I'm counting the days.

Go Grayson and Go Duke!

subzero02
04-18-2017, 08:12 PM
My hope coming into the 2016-2017 season was to see Grayson earn the first retired jersey since I stepped foot in Durham. Excited to say I (and we all) get a second chance to see that happen.

A Duval/Allen/Jackson starting backcourt with a super sixth man in Trent has insane potential. Even if we miss on Duval or something weird happens with Jackson that's still incredible. A week ago when Luke declared I was getting to the point where I wasn't looking forward to next season with my typical fervor. Now I'm counting the days.

Go Grayson and Go Duke!

ESPN must be every bit as thrilled as us Duke fans. He needs to continue to work on his handle, defense and more importantly, communication and leadership.

hudlow
04-18-2017, 08:21 PM
Thank-you Mr. Allen!

weezie
04-18-2017, 08:37 PM
Thank you Grayson. This is your team now. Take it and make it. Senior solo Captain.

Devilwin
04-18-2017, 08:46 PM
Thank God. Also for Frank. Add Trent and O'Connell (and Duval) and we have an amazing backcourt.

Hauerwas
04-18-2017, 08:50 PM
It's great for a change to get some good news around here. So excited for Grayson to have the opportunity to have a year of redemption both personally and physically. His game against Vegas in December will always stand out to me as one of the greatest individual performances I've ever seen.

This can be his team, with his swagger, with his energy, with his passion, and with his will to win. Adding Jackson and potentially Duval or Knox and now we are talking about a Final Four contender.

Congrats on your decision Grayson, we are honored to get the chance to watch you grow and mature as a person and a basketball player for four years. What a rarity these days, even for Duke.

DinoDuke
04-18-2017, 09:44 PM
Beyond overjoyed, love me some GRAYSON ALLEN!!

bluedev_92
04-18-2017, 09:59 PM
Great to have you back!! Excellent news! Can't wait for next year!

jimmymax
04-18-2017, 10:48 PM
I'm guessing things are not playing out as Grayson might have imagined back in 2015 and he may have some regrets but here's to a hellacious senior season. I had to search to find this email I sent to Grayson when things first got bumpy for him. Today's announcement got me thinking about it. Regardless of how it came to be I'm thankful for another year of GA. And grammerphobes let the anyone/their thing go.


Hi Grayson,

I'm guessing this might be your email address based on my daughter's. She is also a sophomore at Duke. I was class of 1982 -- we didn't get email addresses.

Since you may not even receive this I will be brief. Keep your head up. You make Duke fans proud every time you step on the court. Your game is special and so fun to watch. Anyone who says otherwise just wishes you were playing for their team. Keep fighting.

elvis14
04-18-2017, 11:53 PM
I'm so glad Grayson is coming back. It seems like so few people (mostly people not on this board) realize just how many injuries he had this past season and how hard he had to fight through them just to do what he did. I think that if he's healthy this next season he'd going to kick some serious azz and I'm going to be loving every second of it.

MrPoon
04-19-2017, 12:07 AM
I have mixed emotions. For me, this is great news. Love the kids, love watching him, love his desire for the uniform, etc. Sad because, if the stories are to be believed, this was not his plan. This year was supposed to go so different and GA bore the brunt of that along with Giles. Different reasons and some similar reasons. I suspect some trears were shed in making this decision but for GA and for all of us on the board, plan B is a very good plan.

Let's make next year a year to remember (one where we forget some of this last year).
Get healthy!

luburch
04-19-2017, 06:48 AM
Excited for the Grayson Allen Revenge Tour.

Get healthy. Watch the world burn.

Reddevil
04-19-2017, 08:47 AM
This is awesome. So does Grayson graduate this spring? He is winning at life. The banquet and the ACC Championship banner somehow just got a little sweeter.

Reddevil
04-19-2017, 08:50 AM
Excited for the Grayson Allen Revenge Tour.

Get healthy. Watch the world burn.

I saw a child playing with a ruby the size of a tangerine.......didn't know it at the time, but his name was Grayson Allen.:cool:

Troublemaker
04-19-2017, 09:05 AM
I have mixed emotions. For me, this is great news. Love the kids, love watching him, love his desire for the uniform, etc. Sad because, if the stories are to be believed, this was not his plan. This year was supposed to go so different and GA bore the brunt of that along with Giles. Different reasons and some similar reasons. I suspect some trears were shed in making this decision but for GA and for all of us on the board, plan B is a very good plan.

Let's make next year a year to remember (one where we forget some of this last year).
Get healthy!

I don't think there's any question that this wasn't the plan; he doesn't bust his butt to graduate in 3 years unless he was planning to leave after 3. But, as far as feeling sad for him, I mean... let's just say he will have lived a very privileged life if playing a 4th year at Duke counts as a major setback for him. The guy grew up a Duke fan and now he gets to experience being a senior captain and being celebrated on Senior Night (or maybe Day depending on how good UNC is; they might not be good enough for College Gameday next season), and frankly, I think a player's experience at Duke is incomplete without those things. I'm pretty adamant that Duke fans have just gone way overboard with how tough they think things were for Grayson this past season. Yes, the media coverage of him was annoying but in the grand scheme of things, not such a big deal. Tens of millions of young men would trade places with Grayson in a second, and I don't believe he's lost sight of that. If he can control his emotions, be a good leader and not trip anyone next year, and if the basketball gods bless him with health, he's going to have the best year of his life. There's nothing like being a Duke senior captain.

westwall
04-19-2017, 09:16 AM
. A Duval/Allen/Jackson starting backcourt with a super sixth man in Trent has insane potential!


Yes, I agree with that. However -- and I hate being the Debbie Downer here -- that entire back court also has insane potential to be ENTIRELY GONE in one year. I am hoping that the staff is thinking more than one year ahead -- and there are indications that is happening.-- by bringing in another 3 or 4 star point guard with potential for years beyond 2017-18.

Devils Librarian
04-19-2017, 09:48 AM
It was despicable the way Grayson was treated last year. Considering the laundry list of actual crimes that were perpetrated by college basketball players at major programs last season, the media's treatment of Allen was akin to having a Boeheim Watch, getting slow motion close up video footage every time Jim Boeheim put a finger near his nose. "Did he pick, or did he have the intent to pick?"

My hope for Grayson next season is that he is healthy, focused, and ready to make all of those click bait sites kiss his all-american a...ward!

killerleft
04-19-2017, 09:56 AM
He took his time. He Listened to his Gut and his Heart. In a way it was also a costs-benefits decision. He made a courageous decision, knowing the scrutiny and pressures he will face, but also knowing very clearly his values, priorities, and what he really wanted in Life right now (Many people could learn a thing or two from him).

He truly has an excellent chance of having one of the most remarkable seasons in college basketball in a long time as a Senior Leader, and all the more power to him on this Journey!

He may have flipped a coin, it was so close.:p

elvis14
04-19-2017, 10:06 AM
I don't think there's any question that this wasn't the plan; he doesn't bust his butt to graduate in 3 years unless he was planning to leave after 3. But, as far as feeling sad for him, I mean... let's just say he will have lived a very privileged life if playing a 4th year at Duke counts as a major setback for him. The guy grew up a Duke fan and now he gets to experience being a senior captain and being celebrated on Senior Night (or maybe Day depending on how good UNC is; they might not be good enough for College Gameday next season), and frankly, I think a player's experience at Duke is incomplete without those things. I'm pretty adamant that Duke fans have just gone way overboard with how tough they think things were for Grayson this past season. Yes, the media coverage of him was annoying but in the grand scheme of things, not such a big deal. Tens of millions of young men would trade places with Grayson in a second, and I don't believe he's lost sight of that. If he can control his emotions, be a good leader and not trip anyone next year, and if the basketball gods bless him with health, he's going to have the best year of his life. There's nothing like being a Duke senior captain.

Just to be clear, although I recognize that the media coverage of GA was ridiculous, I go overboard about how tough things were for Grayson because of all the injuries he had last year. He really had a tough time playing at a high level because of the injures and I'm actually quite proud of how well he did considering. It's the injuries that derailed his season, not the side show, and they are the reason he'll be back next year as he works his way back into the first round of the NBA draft while kicking butt for Duke!

Troublemaker
04-19-2017, 10:36 AM
Yes, I agree with that. However -- and I hate being the Debbie Downer here -- that entire back court also has insane potential to be ENTIRELY GONE in one year. I am hoping that the staff is thinking more than one year ahead -- and there are indications that is happening.-- by bringing in another 3 or 4 star point guard with potential for years beyond 2017-18.

Well, they are trying to land two PGs in the 2018 class. If Mark Smith doesn't work out in the 2017 class, not sure they're really going to pursue anyone else like you describe in 2017. One reason is that most players have committed at this point. It's very late in the recruiting cycle for 2017, and Smith has unique circumstances that make him both uncommitted and coveted by the big-name programs.


Just to be clear, although I recognize that the media coverage of GA was ridiculous, I go overboard about how tough things were for Grayson because of all the injuries he had last year. He really had a tough time playing at a high level because of the injures and I'm actually quite proud of how well he did considering. It's the injuries that derailed his season, not the side show, and they are the reason he'll be back next year as he works his way back into the first round of the NBA draft while kicking butt for Duke!

Yeah, I wasn't responding to you or your post. More anyone who thought media coverage would chase him away from an awesome experience playing basketball for Duke. Agree that playing through injuries is tough.

elvis14
04-19-2017, 01:24 PM
Yeah, I wasn't responding to you or your post. More anyone who thought media coverage would chase him away from an awesome experience playing basketball for Duke. Agree that playing through injuries is tough.

Cool, we are 100% in agreement. I was listening to the local radio yesterday on my way home and they were talking about GA. It amazed me that not once did they say anything about how injuries affected his play. They had lots to say about the media circus, of course. GA haters are going to be quite disappointed next season!

Channing
04-19-2017, 04:00 PM
I'm sure it has been discussed up thread, but I assume Grayson comes back as a captain ... right? It almost has to be him and Frank as the two co-captains. Perhaps Bolden if he has a remarkable off season.

Troublemaker
04-19-2017, 04:04 PM
I'm sure it has been discussed up thread, but I assume Grayson comes back as a captain ... right? It almost has to be him and Frank as the two co-captains. Perhaps Bolden if he has a remarkable off season.

Grayson for sure. I think maybe Vrank as well. (Remember, guys like Josh Hairston have been captains. You don't have to play a lot or at all to be a captain).

Not sure any underclassmen will get the nod.

Saratoga2
04-19-2017, 09:07 PM
I'm so glad Grayson is coming back. It seems like so few people (mostly people not on this board) realize just how many injuries he had this past season and how hard he had to fight through them just to do what he did. I think that if he's healthy this next season he'd going to kick some serious azz and I'm going to be loving every second of it.

Just got in from my drive from Florida to my house in NC. Good news that Grayson will be on the team next season and will help to provide the senior leadership that is needed on a team with many freshmen. Last season we saw Grayson injured yet play. When he was feeling better we got a glimpse of how good he can be. He caused some of his problems with the tripping episodes, however the reaction of ESPN and other news coverage seemed way overboard. Here's hoping that he will catch a break this year and can enhance his opportunities in whatever he chooses going forward.

Rich
04-19-2017, 10:54 PM
Just got in from my drive from Florida to my house in NC. Good news that Grayson will be on the team next season and will help to provide the senior leadership that is needed on a team with many freshmen. Last season we saw Grayson injured yet play. When he was feeling better we got a glimpse of how good he can be. He caused some of his problems with the tripping episodes, however the reaction of ESPN and other news coverage seemed way overboard. Here's hoping that he will catch a break this year and can enhance his opportunities in whatever he chooses going forward.

It could be a made-for-ESPN comeback story. A year of redemption, so to speak. Oh wait, we def don't wanna go there.

kAzE
04-20-2017, 12:35 PM
It could be a made-for-ESPN comeback story. A year of redemption, so to speak. Oh wait, we def don't wanna go there.

Well, it is true that people love a "fall from grace" story. That's already happened, so they can't really push that narrative much further, unless he actually DOES do something next year (God, I hope not).

You would probably think they will push the redemption story. That's the natural arc for all this. He was a hero, then he became a villain, and now all that's left is to complete the cycle and become a hero again. A national championship would be a sweet ending for Grayson. I think he will be more focused than ever and in full "F.U." mode. Hopefully that gets channeled into basketball, and nothing controversial. The last thing he needs is another incident.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
04-20-2017, 12:41 PM
He was a hero, then he became a villain, and now all that's left is to complete the cycle and become a hero again.

Grayson "Anakin" Allen?

flyingdutchdevil
04-20-2017, 12:48 PM
It could be a made-for-ESPN comeback story. A year of redemption, so to speak. Oh wait, we def don't wanna go there.

I know this hurts the Duke brand (and Grayson brand), but I kinda want Grayson to go full Beastmode next year with the media.

I mean, I wouldn't hold it against the kid, but I don't think it's in his nature to disrespect the media off the court (compared to the media, who loves disrespecting him off and on the court. Seth, Jay, and Dana...so angry).

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
04-20-2017, 12:51 PM
I know this hurts the Duke brand (and Grayson brand), but I kinda want Grayson to go full Beastmode next year with the media.

I mean, I wouldn't hold it against the kid, but I don't think it's in his nature to disrespect the media off the court (compared to the media, who loves disrespecting him off and on the court. Seth, Jay, and Dana...so angry).

I thought Marshawn's attitude towards the media was not disrespectful. You could call it uncooperative, for certain. Grayson is one of the only non-professional athletes who I would see as justified in offering that sort of treatment.

flyingdutchdevil
04-20-2017, 12:54 PM
I thought Marshawn's attitude towards the media was not disrespectful. You could call it uncooperative, for certain. Grayson is one of the only non-professional athletes who I would see as justified in offering that sort of treatment.

I think it's a little disrespectful, but I get it.

If Grayson does it, I'll be 100% behind him on this one. Flip off Seth, Jay, and Dana, and he gets a medal.

SilkyJ
04-20-2017, 12:59 PM
Well, they are trying to land two PGs in the 2018 class. If Mark Smith doesn't work out in the 2017 class, not sure they're really going to pursue anyone else like you describe in 2017. One reason is that most players have committed at this point. It's very late in the recruiting cycle for 2017, and Smith has unique circumstances that make him both uncommitted and coveted by the big-name programs.


The issue is that the 2018 class is regarded as pretty weak. Even further, the highest rated PGs are in the 9-10 range and a 9-10 ranked guy in a weak class may not be an impact player for several years (see Chase Jeter, or to a lesser extent Derryck Thornton). Tre Jones, who folks keep talking about, is ranked in high 20s (28th by Scout). Overall, I agree with the OP's point that our backcourt is likely to be very weak in '18-19. Getting Mark Smith could be a really big coup for us as a) it sounds like he's underrated due to coming on late/being primarily focused on other sports, b) we realllly need PG help for '18 and beyond.

Overall, I think this is an important point for '18-19. Relying on freshman from a weak class does not seem like a winning proposition.

Separately, but also related, our frontcourt may also be pretty weak in '18-19 as well, especially with Jeter transferring (he would have been a senior big man, which would have been great). Carter and Bolden are both very likely to leave--maybe Bolden stays, but my guess is with even a decent season Bolden goes b/c he had OAD expectations early on. That leaves with Vrank & Javin as true frontcourt players, and Jack White as a potential stretch 4. All those guys have potential, and Javin and Jack have enough talent to grow into all-conference type players, but there's zero MickieD's there and it would be unusual for us to play/start 3 non-Mickie D's. Frankly, that's a low starting point for talent.

Now, I'm sure we'll land some big men prospects from the '18 class, but similar to the '15 class (Ingram, et al), if we are left relying on freshman in a weak class, we will probably have an "average" year.

[Side note, according to Scout we are pursuing 3 PGs in the class: Immanuel Quickly, Darius Garland, and Tre Jones. Now when you say "trying to land 2" not sure if you mean "pursuing 2" or "pursuing a few, but hoping to actually get 2." I'm also not an insider, so we may only be pursuing two of them for all I know.]


I'm sure it has been discussed up thread, but I assume Grayson comes back as a captain ... right? It almost has to be him and Frank as the two co-captains. Perhaps Bolden if he has a remarkable off season.

Bolden will most definitely not be a captain. No sophomore will be a captain. < 10% chance Vrank is a captain.

Grayson will and should be the sole captain, but good lord he needs to work on his leadership skills. His demeanor on the court was bad last year. Lots of complaining to refs. He got that technical late in the season for slamming the ball. "Shhhh-ing" the crowd at various points. He needs to grow the eff up and quickly. Quinn as a senior captain had leadership skills in spades--and as a PG you'd expect that. Grayson does not have these natural leadership qualities. He's never been a PG, he's a soft-spoken guy generally, and he behaved so poorly that he had his captaincy stripped last year. I plan to post more on this topic, as I am a firm believer that in order to go far in march than 1 of our best 2 players has to be a senior captain, but in my opinion our season hinges on how effective Grayson can be as a leader next year.

flyingdutchdevil
04-20-2017, 01:03 PM
Grayson will and should be the sole captain, but good lord he needs to work on his leadership skills. His demeanor on the court was bad last year. Lots of complaining to refs. He got that technical late in the season for slamming the ball. "Shhhh-ing" the crowd at various points. He needs to grow the eff up and quickly. Quinn as a senior captain had leadership skills in spades--and as a PG you'd expect that. Grayson does not have these natural leadership qualities. He's never been a PG, he's a soft-spoken guy generally, and he behaved so poorly that he had his captaincy stripped last year. I plan to post more on this topic, as I am a firm believer that in order to go far in march than 1 of our best 2 players has to be a senior captain, but in my opinion our season hinges on how effective Grayson can be as a leader next year.

I think there is zero change Grayson is the sole captain. I also think there is zero change Grayson isn't a captain.

And the reasoning is that if Grayson does something stupid again on the court, his captaincy is getting stripped (and rightly so). So if there isn't another captain, Coach K will have to scramble.

I don't know who the second captain will be, but I know there will be another captain.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
04-20-2017, 01:04 PM
I think there is zero change Grayson is the sole captain. I also think there is zero change Grayson isn't a captain.

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

HK Dukie
04-20-2017, 01:19 PM
Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

If that is true then I guess we know the identity of both Siths now :D

kAzE
04-20-2017, 01:21 PM
Grayson "Anakin" Allen?

True story: I actually had typed "Grayson is the Darth Vader of college basketball" in my post, and then changed it, because I've already made way too many Star Wars references with Luke the last 2 years. But you and I are obviously on the same page.

Troublemaker
04-20-2017, 01:26 PM
The issue is that the 2018 class is regarded as pretty weak. Even further, the highest rated PGs are in the 9-10 range and a 9-10 ranked guy in a weak class may not be an impact player for several years (see Chase Jeter, or to a lesser extent Derryck Thornton). Tre Jones, who folks keep talking about, is ranked in high 20s (28th by Scout). Overall, I agree with the OP's point that our backcourt is likely to be very weak in '18-19. Getting Mark Smith could be a really big coup for us as a) it sounds like he's underrated due to coming on late/being primarily focused on other sports, b) we realllly need PG help for '18 and beyond.

Overall, I think this is an important point for '18-19. Relying on freshman from a weak class does not seem like a winning proposition.

Separately, but also related, our frontcourt may also be pretty weak in '18-19 as well, especially with Jeter transferring (he would have been a senior big man, which would have been great). Carter and Bolden are both very likely to leave--maybe Bolden stays, but my guess is with even a decent season Bolden goes b/c he had OAD expectations early on. That leaves with Vrank & Javin as true frontcourt players, and Jack White as a potential stretch 4. All those guys have potential, and Javin and Jack have enough talent to grow into all-conference type players, but there's zero MickieD's there and it would be unusual for us to play/start 3 non-Mickie D's. Frankly, that's a low starting point for talent.

Now, I'm sure we'll land some big men prospects from the '18 class, but similar to the '15 class (Ingram, et al), if we are left relying on freshman in a weak class, we will probably have an "average" year.

Yep. I made the same points a year ago, but unfortunately, things didn't work out where we landed a multi-year PG in the 2017 class. I was rooting hard for Quade Green, but it didn't happen.

There are still three possibilities:
(1) Maybe one of the PGs we sign in 2018 is more ready as a freshman than is expected
(2) Grad transfer next year. That Yale point guard, maybe?
(3) Regular transfer this year. One that would sit out next season and be ready to step in as the starter in 2018-19. Not sure what the talent pool looks like for regular transfers, though.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
04-20-2017, 02:17 PM
If that is true then I guess we know the identity of both Siths now :D

Touché

budwom
04-20-2017, 02:27 PM
Yep. I made the same points a year ago, but unfortunately, things didn't work out where we landed a multi-year PG in the 2017 class. I was rooting hard for Quade Green, but it didn't happen.

There are still three possibilities:
(1) Maybe one of the PGs we sign in 2018 is more ready as a freshman than is expected
(2) Grad transfer next year. That Yale point guard, maybe?
(3) Regular transfer this year. One that would sit out next season and be ready to step in as the starter in 2018-19. Not sure what the talent pool looks like for regular transfers, though.

I suspect we'll be getting two playable point guards in the class of 2018...Darius Garland and Tre Jones (who seems to be improving rapidly) are two likely suspects.

SilkyJ
04-20-2017, 03:01 PM
I think there is zero change Grayson is the sole captain. I also think there is zero change Grayson isn't a captain.

And the reasoning is that if Grayson does something stupid again on the court, his captaincy is getting stripped (and rightly so). So if there isn't another captain, Coach K will have to scramble.

I don't know who the second captain will be, but I know there will be another captain.

If you're right about K's thinking, and you may be, then that's a BAD, BAD sign. If we don't have a true leader out there on the floor to lead this team, then we don't really have a FF caliber team. Here's to hoping Grayson matures...and quickly. But I do hear you, tigers don't often change their stripes.

SilkyJ
04-20-2017, 03:08 PM
Yep. I made the same points a year ago, but unfortunately, things didn't work out where we landed a multi-year PG in the 2017 class. I was rooting hard for Quade Green, but it didn't happen.

There are still three possibilities:
(1) Maybe one of the PGs we sign in 2018 is more ready as a freshman than is expected
(2) Grad transfer next year. That Yale point guard, maybe?
(3) Regular transfer this year. One that would sit out next season and be ready to step in as the starter in 2018-19. Not sure what the talent pool looks like for regular transfers, though.

Yep, I remember. I remember saying that PG is the hardest position to recruit for and was particularly tough for '17.

I think we've been bitten too hard by the OAD bug after the '15 title and we need to restore balance (to the force ;)

flyingdutchdevil
04-20-2017, 03:15 PM
If you're right about K's thinking, and you may be, then that's a BAD, BAD sign. If we don't have a true leader out there on the floor to lead this team, then we don't really have a FF caliber team. Here's to hoping Grayson matures...and quickly. But I do hear you, tigers don't often change their stripes.

Silky - for the record, I think Grayson will mature and be a great captain next year. Like you said, he needs to calm down, stop looking for calls, and be the emotional leader that he can easily be. But I wouldn't put Grayson as the team's sole captain. I don't think that's smart for Grayson, the team, or Coach K.

CDu
04-20-2017, 03:46 PM
Silky - for the record, I think Grayson will mature and be a great captain next year. Like you said, he needs to calm down, stop looking for calls, and be the emotional leader that he can easily be. But I wouldn't put Grayson as the team's sole captain. I don't think that's smart for Grayson, the team, or Coach K.

The problem is that I am not sure there is another option really. Jackson's a bit too emotional/fiery to be the steadying influence. Vrankovic isn't likely to play enough. And Bolden is too inexperienced.

flyingdutchdevil
04-20-2017, 04:16 PM
The problem is that I am not sure there is another option really. Jackson's a bit too emotional/fiery to be the steadying influence. Vrankovic isn't likely to play enough. And Bolden is too inexperienced.

I disagree with Jackson. I don't see a supercharged emotional player. Plus, compared to Grayson, he's Tim Duncan. I also think Jackson is a fun-loving kind of player that teammates love off the court.

I agree with you on Vrank and Bolden. But I'd rather have Jackson, Vrank, or Bolden be a captain than have Grayson go at it alone.

kAzE
04-20-2017, 04:17 PM
I think there is zero change Grayson is the sole captain. I also think there is zero change Grayson isn't a captain.

And the reasoning is that if Grayson does something stupid again on the court, his captaincy is getting stripped (and rightly so). So if there isn't another captain, Coach K will have to scramble.

I don't know who the second captain will be, but I know there will be another captain.

I actually do think he will be the only captain . . . there's no one else who can be one. Maybe Vrankovic? He's the only other guy who I would even consider.

Does anyone REALLY think Grayson would put himself through all that AGAIN?

I think there's zero chance Grayson trips anyone next year. He might have an emotional outburst or cause some sort of controversy inadvertently, but he has WAY too much to lose if he trips anyone again. It would be a disaster of epic proportions.

flyingdutchdevil
04-20-2017, 04:18 PM
I actually think he will be the only captain . . . there's no one else who can be one.

Does anyone REALLY think he would put himself through all that AGAIN?

I think there's zero chance Grayson trips anyone next year. He might have an emotional outburst or cause some sort of controversy inadvertently, but he has WAY too much to lose if he trips anyone again. It would be a disaster of epic proportions.

I guarantee you 90% of this board would have said those exact same lines a year ago. I know I did.

kAzE
04-20-2017, 04:31 PM
I guarantee you 90% of this board would have said those exact same lines a year ago. I know I did.

Yeah, I probably would have said that around this time last year.

The difference this time is that the backlash for the 3rd trip was exponentially more pronounced than the first 2 times. If it happened 4th time (God forbid), the internet might explode. I don't know Grayson personally, but I would probably imagine that 2 week stretch after the 3rd trip was one of the worst 2 week periods of his life. I don't know that I could defend him anymore if it happened a 4th time.

Therefore, I choose to believe that he has learned his lesson, and will keep his limbs to himself.

Troublemaker
04-20-2017, 04:42 PM
Silky - for the record, I think Grayson will mature and be a great captain next year. Like you said, he needs to calm down, stop looking for calls, and be the emotional leader that he can easily be. But I wouldn't put Grayson as the team's sole captain. I don't think that's smart for Grayson, the team, or Coach K.


I actually do think he will be the only captain . . . there's no one else who can be one. Maybe Vrankovic? He's the only other guy who I would even consider.

Does anyone REALLY think Grayson would put himself through all that AGAIN?

I think there's zero chance Grayson trips anyone next year. He might have an emotional outburst or cause some sort of controversy inadvertently, but he has WAY too much to lose if he trips anyone again. It would be a disaster of epic proportions.


I guarantee you 90% of this board would have said those exact same lines a year ago. I know I did.

One difference between this season and next season for Grayson is that he will enter it knowing that there's no leadership safety net in the form of his roommates Amile and Matt. Even though Grayson was technically tri-captain this season, everyone -- including Grayson -- understood that Amile and Matt could carry the leadership load by themselves if needed. Next season? Grayson understands that he really has no choice but to gain better control over his emotions and become a good, sturdy captain for the younglings*. Necessity is a better breeding ground for change.

* Hopefully next season won't be like this metaphorically:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US28uU8VppY

Troublemaker
04-20-2017, 04:51 PM
And, oh yeah, I believe Duke has some sort of Center on Leadership (and Ethics) named after some guy named Krzyzewski, who has spent most of his adult life studying and obsessing over leadership.

That guy will work really hard with Grayson to build him into the leader Duke needs. I can't say it's a lock, but I am confident Grayson will be a good leader for Duke next season.

And for those that like to say that they enjoy watching 4-year players grow over the course of time -- and that includes me, btw -- this is it right here. We should look forward to rooting for Grayson and watching him make his strides in this area.

flyingdutchdevil
04-20-2017, 04:53 PM
Yeah, I probably would have said that around this time last year.

The difference this time is that the backlash for the 3rd trip was exponentially more pronounced than the first 2 times. If it happened 4th time (God forbid), the internet might explode. I don't know Grayson personally, but I would probably imagine that 2 week stretch after the 3rd trip was one of the worst 2 week periods of his life. I don't know that I could defend him anymore if it happened a 4th time.

Therefore, I choose to believe that he has learned his lesson, and will keep his limbs to himself.

Oh, I agree with you 10x fold! But you need an insurance policy, even if the likelihood of tripping another opposing player is 0.01%.

kAzE
04-20-2017, 05:02 PM
Oh, I agree with you 10x fold! But you need an insurance policy, even if the likelihood of tripping another opposing player is 0.01%.

But think about it . . what does the captain title really mean if you don't have the credentials to back it up? It's just a meaningless title at that point. No one can lead this team except Grayson Allen. If he somehow loses his captaincy again, are guys going to just stop looking to him for leadership in favor of whoever the back up captain is? Is that even good for the team? Probably not . . . Grayson will have to lead this team no matter what.

Jeffrey
04-20-2017, 05:42 PM
I think Grayson is already a better leader than most have stated. A person does not need to be perfect to be a great leader. Yes, they should lead by example, but the greatest leaders are still human and sometimes make bad choices. Grayson is a student athlete who has performed well in both capacities. He is clearly very loyal and hard working. He sacrificed millions of dollars, returning after his sophomore season, to complete his degree and improve himself. Next season, he is sacrificing additional wealth to continue to improve himself and further his education. Everyone of us should be very proud his jersey says Duke!

K is a great leader and he makes bad choices. I would not want my child to learn K's vocabulary, however, I would love for my child to spend time with K.

lotusland
04-20-2017, 07:24 PM
The issue is that the 2018 class is regarded as pretty weak. Even further, the highest rated PGs are in the 9-10 range and a 9-10 ranked guy in a weak class may not be an impact player for several years (see Chase Jeter, or to a lesser extent Derryck Thornton). Tre Jones, who folks keep talking about, is ranked in high 20s (28th by Scout). Overall, I agree with the OP's point that our backcourt is likely to be very weak in '18-19. Getting Mark Smith could be a really big coup for us as a) it sounds like he's underrated due to coming on late/being primarily focused on other sports, b) we realllly need PG help for '18 and beyond.

Overall, I think this is an important point for '18-19. Relying on freshman from a weak class does not seem like a winning proposition.

Separately, but also related, our frontcourt may also be pretty weak in '18-19 as well, especially with Jeter transferring (he would have been a senior big man, which would have been great). Carter and Bolden are both very likely to leave--maybe Bolden stays, but my guess is with even a decent season Bolden goes b/c he had OAD expectations early on. That leaves with Vrank & Javin as true frontcourt players, and Jack White as a potential stretch 4. All those guys have potential, and Javin and Jack have enough talent to grow into all-conference type players, but there's zero MickieD's there and it would be unusual for us to play/start 3 non-Mickie D's. Frankly, that's a low starting point for talent.

Now, I'm sure we'll land some big men prospects from the '18 class, but similar to the '15 class (Ingram, et al), if we are left relying on freshman in a weak class, we will probably have an "average" year.

[Side note, according to Scout we are pursuing 3 PGs in the class: Immanuel Quickly, Darius Garland, and Tre Jones. Now when you say "trying to land 2" not sure if you mean "pursuing 2" or "pursuing a few, but hoping to actually get 2." I'm also not an insider, so we may only be pursuing two of them for all I know.]



Bolden will most definitely not be a captain. No sophomore will be a captain. < 10% chance Vrank is a captain.

Grayson will and should be the sole captain, but good lord he needs to work on his leadership skills. His demeanor on the court was bad last year. Lots of complaining to refs. He got that technical late in the season for slamming the ball. "Shhhh-ing" the crowd at various points. He needs to grow the eff up and quickly. Quinn as a senior captain had leadership skills in spades--and as a PG you'd expect that. Grayson does not have these natural leadership qualities. He's never been a PG, he's a soft-spoken guy generally, and he behaved so poorly that he had his captaincy stripped last year. I plan to post more on this topic, as I am a firm believer that in order to go far in march than 1 of our best 2 players has to be a senior captain, but in my opinion our season hinges on how effective Grayson can be as a leader next year.

I wouldn't describe GA as soft spoken on the court at all. For better or worse he's been in the face of his teammates and opponents. I've seen him give Derryk Thornton and Frank Jackson an earful. I'm not sure how productive that is but still, he's not shy.

Indoor66
04-20-2017, 07:33 PM
I think Grayson is already a better leader than most have stated. A person does not need to be perfect to be a great leader. Yes, they should lead by example, but the greatest leaders are still human and sometimes make bad choices. Grayson is a student athlete who has performed well in both capacities. He is clearly very loyal and hard working. He sacrificed millions of dollars, returning after his sophomore season, to complete his degree and improve himself. Next season, he is sacrificing additional wealth to continue to improve himself and further his education. Everyone of us should be very proud his jersey says Duke!

K is a great leader and he makes bad choices. I would not want my child to learn K's vocabulary, however, I would love for my child to spend time with K.

All due respect, but your child will learn that vocabulary unless you sequester him\her from peers

mph
04-20-2017, 08:19 PM
All due respect, but your child will learn that vocabulary unless you sequester him\her from peers

Our coach works in profanity the way other artists might work in oils or clay. It is his true medium, a master. 😛

chriso
04-21-2017, 11:38 AM
I disagree with Jackson. I don't see a supercharged emotional player. Plus, compared to Grayson, he's Tim Duncan. I also think Jackson is a fun-loving kind of player that teammates love off the court.

I agree with you on Vrank and Bolden. But I'd rather have Jackson, Vrank, or Bolden be a captain than have Grayson go at it alone.

Yes I think Grayson, Frank or Vrank could be captains. Vrank could provide guidance for the bigs. On a side note I keep reading how Grayson returning is great for college basketball and I couldn't agree more. I am thrilled with him returning for obvious reasons and it keeps us the brand name that people love to hate. A friend of mine was getting on Duke (he's a Kansas State fan) and I asked him why no one rushed the court after beating them or why it wasn't a headline when his team lost lol. :)

COYS
04-21-2017, 12:48 PM
If you're right about K's thinking, and you may be, then that's a BAD, BAD sign. If we don't have a true leader out there on the floor to lead this team, then we don't really have a FF caliber team. Here's to hoping Grayson matures...and quickly. But I do hear you, tigers don't often change their stripes.

I think it's worth pointing out that many of us were also concerned about leadership going into the 2014-2015 season. Quinn Cook was a talented but emotional player who, based on reports from the coaching staff and off of Quinn's facial expressions in games, had not proven that he was ready to take charge of his emotions. Not only did he end up being an incredibly leader for a national championship team, he did so while also accepting a supporting role next to the freshmem trio of Justise, Jah, and Tyus.

Bobby Hurley is another example of a player who matured dramatically over his career (seriously, go back and watch some of his games even during his sophomore 1991 season . . . so much pouting).

The "tigers don't change their stripes" adage is familiar for a reason. But we don't have to go back very far in Duke basketball history to find an emotional, volatile player who became an excellent leader by his senior season.

SilkyJ
04-21-2017, 03:26 PM
I wouldn't describe GA as soft spoken on the court at all. For better or worse he's been in the face of his teammates and opponents. I've seen him give Derryk Thornton and Frank Jackson an earful. I'm not sure how productive that is but still, he's not shy.

Grayson turns into a different person on the court--everyone admits that. He is fiery and emotional. But he is generally a soft-spoken guy off the court and "getting in someone's face" is not the same as leading.


Yes I think Grayson, Frank or Vrank could be captains. Vrank could provide guidance for the bigs. On a side note I keep reading how Grayson returning is great for college basketball and I couldn't agree more. I am thrilled with him returning for obvious reasons and it keeps us the brand name that people love to hate. A friend of mine was getting on Duke (he's a Kansas State fan) and I asked him why no one rushed the court after beating them or why it wasn't a headline when his team lost lol. :)

And Vrank's guidance would originate from what? The 115 minutes he played in 2 years--most of it in garbage time? This team will need Grayson to be its best player and its leader on the court. No point in running from it or having a backup plan. Put the pressure on him and force him to stepup.

And regarding Frank (and those who keep mentioning Bolden)- are you crazy?! don't be ridiculous! How many sophomores have been named Captain's in Duke's history? Has it ever happened under K? My guess is its happened zero or maybe once under K, and if it did happen there would have been a weird circumstance (e.g. 2007--but i believe demarcus was the lone captain as a Junior...) If it does happen, it means Grayson isn't ready to stepup and we are in trouble...


I think it's worth pointing out that many of us were also concerned about leadership going into the 2014-2015 season. Quinn Cook was a talented but emotional player who, based on reports from the coaching staff and off of Quinn's facial expressions in games, had not proven that he was ready to take charge of his emotions. Not only did he end up being an incredibly leader for a national championship team, he did so while also accepting a supporting role next to the freshmem trio of Justise, Jah, and Tyus.

Bobby Hurley is another example of a player who matured dramatically over his career (seriously, go back and watch some of his games even during his sophomore 1991 season . . . so much pouting).

The "tigers don't change their stripes" adage is familiar for a reason. But we don't have to go back very far in Duke basketball history to find an emotional, volatile player who became an excellent leader by his senior season.

A fair point. Quinn was a natural leader from day 1 though. He had been a PG his whole HS career and for his 3 years at Duke. He knew how to run and lead a team. He definitely needed to mature as a leader, and he did, but the raw material was there.

In my opinion, leadership isn't like working on your left hand, improving your floater, or mastering the drop step. Some guys have charisma and are natural leaders, and some guys simply don't like the attention or pressure. Leadership can be developed and improved, for sure, but you have to have some raw material and if you don't then I think your ceiling as a leader is really capped. I honestly don't know where Grayson is on that spectrum...but we are certainly going to find out :)

chriso
04-21-2017, 04:27 PM
Grayson turns into a different person on the court--everyone admits that. He is fiery and emotional. But he is generally a soft-spoken guy off the court and "getting in someone's face" is not the same as leading.



And Vrank's guidance would originate from what? The 115 minutes he played in 2 years--most of it in garbage time? This team will need Grayson to be its best player and its leader on the court. No point in running from it or having a backup plan. Put the pressure on him and force him to stepup.

And regarding Frank (and those who keep mentioning Bolden)- are you crazy?! don't be ridiculous! How many sophomores have been named Captain's in Duke's history? Has it ever happened under K? My guess is its happened zero or maybe once under K, and if it did happen there would have been a weird circumstance (e.g. 2007--but i believe demarcus was the lone captain as a Junior...) If it does happen, it means Grayson isn't ready to stepup and we are in trouble...



A fair point. Quinn was a natural leader from day 1 though. He had been a PG his whole HS career and for his 3 years at Duke. He knew how to run and lead a team. He definitely needed to mature as a leader, and he did, but the raw material was there.

In my opinion, leadership isn't like working on your left hand, improving your floater, or mastering the drop step. Some guys have charisma and are natural leaders, and some guys simply don't like the attention or pressure. Leadership can be developed and improved, for sure, but you have to have some raw material and if you don't then I think your ceiling as a leader is really capped. I honestly don't know where Grayson is on that spectrum...but we are certainly going to find out :)

I meant Vrank as a second captain to Grayson. And I think he does have valuable experience; the frontcourt is ridiculously young, it will be Vrank's third year in the program, and he always provided positive energy for us and gave us some valuable minutes last year down the stretch. And other than Jackson there are not a ton of other options other than Grayson, who will be one of the captains for sure. I would have gone with Chase but he's gone. :)

kAzE
04-21-2017, 04:40 PM
And regarding Frank (and those who keep mentioning Bolden)- are you crazy?! don't be ridiculous! How many sophomores have been named Captain's in Duke's history? Has it ever happened under K? My guess is its happened zero or maybe once under K, and if it did happen there would have been a weird circumstance (e.g. 2007--but i believe demarcus was the lone captain as a Junior...) If it does happen, it means Grayson isn't ready to stepup and we are in trouble...


Well, off the top of my head, Rodney Hood was a captain as a redshirt Sophomore. But as you say, was a bit of a weird circumstance, since he was an older player already at the time, thanks to his transfer redshirt season. Still, it was basically unprecedented for a guy in his first year with the program as a player to be named a Duke captain.

But having said that, I agree that it's unlikely for Frank Jackson to be named a captain.

budwom
04-21-2017, 04:50 PM
I could see K dangling a captaincy in front of Jackson, especially if Duval comes to Durham.

CDu
04-21-2017, 05:07 PM
I could see K dangling a captaincy in front of Jackson, especially if Duval comes to Durham.

Why? Is this implying it as a way to encourage Jackson to come back? One, Jackson isn't a first-round projection, so he doesn't seem like a flight risk. Two, if he WAS considered a flight risk, I can't imagine the captaincy being of much sway in a decision.

budwom
04-21-2017, 05:16 PM
Why? Is this implying it as a way to encourage Jackson to come back? One, Jackson isn't a first-round projection, so he doesn't seem like a flight risk. Two, if he WAS considered a flight risk, I can't imagine the captaincy being of much sway in a decision.

I could be wrong, but I don't think Jackson will necessarily be thrilled if Duval comes to Duke since he (Jackson) sees his NBA future as a PG. (Of course K will point out how we've had
multiple PGs before....) I think a captaincy for Frank might be fruitful....

SilkyJ
04-21-2017, 08:20 PM
I meant Vrank as a second captain to Grayson. And I think he does have valuable experience; the frontcourt is ridiculously young, it will be Vrank's third year in the program, and he always provided positive energy for us and gave us some valuable minutes last year down the stretch.

I know what you meant. Vrank does not make sense as a captain. And which "valuable minutes down the stretch" are you referring to? He basically didn't player after January.

He played in exactly ZERO regular season games in February
He played 2 mins against Clemson in the ACC tournament, then didn't play again in the ACCT
He played mop up minutes against Troy and less than 1 minute against South Carolina

Vrank makes very little sense as a captain. His ceiling is probably 5-8mpg this year and he may even play less overall minutes than last year, barring injury.


Well, off the top of my head, Rodney Hood was a captain as a redshirt Sophomore. But as you say, was a bit of a weird circumstance, since he was an older player already at the time, thanks to his transfer redshirt season. Still, it was basically unprecedented for a guy in his first year with the program as a player to be named a Duke captain.

But having said that, I agree that it's unlikely for Frank Jackson to be named a captain.

Redshirt Sophomore = Junior. There was also no choice in that case as he was by far the best upperclassmen player on the team. That is not the case here.


I could be wrong, but I don't think Jackson will necessarily be thrilled if Duval comes to Duke since he (Jackson) sees his NBA future as a PG. (Of course K will point out how we've had
multiple PGs before...) I think a captaincy for Frank might be fruitful...

Some logic there, but doesn't feel like a K thing to do. Definitely doesn't feel like something he would do in the past. Captaincy is something earned through hardwork and leadership, not something dangled as an incentive to come back.

Devil549
04-21-2017, 09:39 PM
Glad GA is returning and look forward to him having a great SR year.

GA and FJ will make a great back court with or without Duval.

I would love to see the 3 of them play together in 2017-18.

budwom
04-22-2017, 09:13 AM
I know what you meant. Vrank does not make sense as a captain. And which "valuable minutes down the stretch" are you referring to? He basically didn't player after January.

He played in exactly ZERO regular season games in February
He played 2 mins against Clemson in the ACC tournament, then didn't play again in the ACCT
He played mop up minutes against Troy and less than 1 minute against South Carolina

Vrank makes very little sense as a captain. His ceiling is probably 5-8mpg this year and he may even play less overall minutes than last year, barring injury.



Redshirt Sophomore = Junior. There was also no choice in that case as he was by far the best upperclassmen player on the team. That is not the case here.



Some logic there, but doesn't feel like a K thing to do. Definitely doesn't feel like something he would do in the past. Captaincy is something earned through hardwork and leadership, not something dangled as an incentive to come back.

I partly agree about Jackson...but it's a long Spring and Summer (and Fall), and Frank is (oddly enough) our second most experienced player, right? Plenty of time for Frank to assert himself (and he did have a very good end of season, IMO).
I'd bet a two pack of Entennman's chocolate frosted donuts Frank gets the nod...

devildeac
04-22-2017, 09:25 AM
I partly agree about Jackson...but it's a long Spring and Summer (and Fall), and Frank is (oddly enough) our second most experienced player, right? Plenty of time for Frank to assert himself (and he did have a very good end of season, IMO).
I'd bet a two pack of Entennman's chocolate frosted donuts Frank gets the nod...

Single serving size? :rolleyes:

Wait, they come in two packs? :confused:

I thought the only choices were a 6er or bag of mini-donits (my father's pronunciation :o) .

budwom
04-22-2017, 11:44 AM
Single serving size? :rolleyes:

Wait, they come in two packs? :confused:

I thought the only choices were a 6er or bag of mini-donits (my father's pronunciation :o) .

Up here we have three choices: 6 minis, or (I believe) 9 big ones in the big box, OR the best of them all, two mid sized perfect ones, $1.69
After I rake today, I'm grabbing some.

Indoor66
04-22-2017, 11:49 AM
After I rake today...

I heard that you rake every day. 😂😊😎

SilkyJ
04-22-2017, 12:55 PM
I partly agree about Jackson...but it's a long Spring and Summer (and Fall), and Frank is (oddly enough) our second most experienced player, right? Plenty of time for Frank to assert himself (and he did have a very good end of season, IMO).
I'd bet a two pack of Entennman's chocolate frosted donuts Frank gets the nod...

Certainly agree with you about Frank's play down the stretch last year. At times he was our best player and the only one with a true ability to take over a game. I'm excited (like really, really excited) for what he can do next year. I think there's an outside shot he leads us in scoring next year.

Naming him a captain seems like a stretch, but I know better than to bet against you. Seriously tho- when was the last time we named a sophomore a captain? Has it ever happened? Just seems too out of the ordinary. But past results are not guarantees of future performance :)

(I do remember Duhon being named a captain of the bulls in the NBA in his 1st or 2nd year...)

devildeac
04-22-2017, 01:12 PM
Certainly agree with you about Frank's play down the stretch last year. At times he was our best player and the only one with a true ability to take over a game. I'm excited (like really, really excited) for what he can do next year. I think there's an outside shot he leads us in scoring next year.

Naming him a captain seems like a stretch, but I know better than to bet against you. Seriously tho- when was the last time we named a sophomore a captain? Has it ever happened? Just seems too out of the ordinary. But past results are not guarantees of future performance :)

(I do remember Duhon being named a captain of the bulls in the NBA in his 1st or 2nd year...)


I dunno. IIRC, budwom had Bolden leaving as a OAD or transferring. ;)

Kedsy
04-22-2017, 01:52 PM
Seriously tho- when was the last time we named a sophomore a captain? Has it ever happened? Just seems too out of the ordinary.

According to this source (http://www.dukeupdate.com/Records/team_captains.htm), it was 2006-07, when both Greg Paulus and Josh McRoberts were co-captains with DeMarcus Nelson (I know somebody said DeMarcus was sole captain in 2007, but according to the cited source, that was 2007-08). Not coincidentally, that's the last time a sophomore was among our top two in career minutes (going into 2006-07, Paulus was 1st on that team in career minutes played; Nelson was 2nd; and McRoberts was 3rd). Going into next season, Frank Jackson will be 2nd on the team in career minutes played (assuming Frank is definitely coming back).

The above source also states that the following were co-captains as upperclassmen: Nick Horvath (twice -- 2002-03 and 2003-04), JD Simpson (1999-2000), Carmen Wallace (1996-97), Clay Buckley (1990-91), Jay Bryan (1984-85), and Richard Ford (1983-84). So maybe Antonio Vrankovic as co-captain isn't so far-fetched as some are making it out to be.

NSDukeFan
04-22-2017, 02:09 PM
According to this source (http://www.dukeupdate.com/Records/team_captains.htm), it was 2006-07, when both Greg Paulus and Josh McRoberts were co-captains with DeMarcus Nelson (I know somebody said DeMarcus was sole captain in 2007, but according to the cited source, that was 2007-08). Not coincidentally, that's the last time a sophomore was among our top two in career minutes (going into 2006-07, Paulus was 1st on that team in career minutes played; Nelson was 2nd; and McRoberts was 3rd). Going into next season, Frank Jackson will be 2nd on the team in career minutes played (assuming Frank is definitely coming back).

The above source also states that the following were co-captains as upperclassmen: Nick Horvath (twice -- 2002-03 and 2003-04), JD Simpson (1999-2000), Carmen Wallace (1996-97), Clay Buckley (1990-91), Jay Bryan (1984-85), and Richard Ford (1983-84). So maybe Antonio Vrankovic as co-captain isn't so far-fetched as some are making it out to be.
Didn't Horvath have to be named captain, based on the summers he had before those seasons?

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
04-22-2017, 02:54 PM
Frank Jackson will be 2nd on the team in career minutes played (assuming Frank is definitely coming back).

People keep using this language and I am seriously confused. My confusion arises from the thread with the title explicitly stating Jackson is coming back next year. In my experience, DBR is really careful about definitive statements like that.

If there's some sort of insider gossip that can explain why mumblings differ from the thread title, but the thread title hasn't been changed, I would love to be in the loop.

If Frank is toying with going pro, bully for him, let's not mislead people with entire threads stating otherwise. If he is definitely staying, but there's a whisper campaign to get him out, that's weird.

If someone has the insight to help me understand this inconsistency, feel free to PM me - I DBR swear it will go no further.

I also swear on my pitchforks that I won't mention it anymore.

Carry on.

CDu
04-22-2017, 04:18 PM
People keep using this language and I am seriously confused. My confusion arises from the thread with the title explicitly stating Jackson is coming back next year. In my experience, DBR is really careful about definitive statements like that.

If there's some sort of insider gossip that can explain why mumblings differ from the thread title, but the thread title hasn't been changed, I would love to be in the loop.

If Frank is toying with going pro, bully for him, let's not mislead people with entire threads stating otherwise. If he is definitely staying, but there's a whisper campaign to get him out, that's weird.

If someone has the insight to help me understand this inconsistency, feel free to PM me - I DBR swear it will go no further.

I also swear on my pitchforks that I won't mention it anymore.

Carry on.

The point has been made before. The thread that "definitively" says Jackson is coming back references a tweet from Gary Parrish (or someone like him) saying something to the effect of "no official announcement yet, but a source tells me Jackson is leaning toward returning." Since then, no other announcement has been made. Now, I suspect he will indeed come back (there is very little time left to declare). But it is not official yet. So I suspect folks are not wanting to put the cart before the horse.

And don't worry - we will almost certainly know within two days if he is staying.

budwom
04-22-2017, 05:16 PM
^which is why (pure speculation) a captaincy could be fruitful....amazing he is our second most experienced guy...

CDu
04-22-2017, 08:17 PM
^which is why (pure speculation) a captaincy could be fruitful...amazing he is our second most experienced guy...

Again, if he was trying to decide on whether or not to go pro, I don't think being a captain would make much difference in his decision. Like, not at all.

Coach K may end up naming him a captain if he feels that one captain isn't enough. But dangling the captaincy as some sort of carrot seems meaningless and unnecessary. And on top of that it would not be the kind of precedent Coach K seems to believe in (i.e., everything is earned, nothing is given).

Troublemaker
04-22-2017, 08:43 PM
Again, if he was trying to decide on whether or not to go pro, I don't think being a captain would make much difference in his decision. Like, not at all.

Coach K may end up naming him a captain if he feels that one captain isn't enough. But dangling the captaincy as some sort of carrot seems meaningless and unnecessary. And on top of that it would not be the kind of precedent Coach K seems to believe in (i.e., everything is earned, nothing is given).

Agreed. I just can't envision Coach K using the captaincy as a bargaining chip. If Frank wants to go, then go. If Frank doesn't trust the staff's plan, then go. With that said, most things point to him returning at this point even though we do have to sweat out one more day since tomorrow is the deadline for declaring.

Also, Frank was corrected on the court A LOT by the team's leaders this past season. I don't really know if, in one offseason, Frank can go from correctee to corrector so fast. Don't get me wrong. I believe Frank will have a great sophomore season if he's back, but I'm doubting any sort of major leadership role for him at this stage of his career.

Kedsy
04-22-2017, 10:11 PM
People keep using this language and I am seriously confused. My confusion arises from the thread with the title explicitly stating Jackson is coming back next year. In my experience, DBR is really careful about definitive statements like that.

Read the last post in that thread and all will be clear. Or less clear, as the case may be.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
04-22-2017, 11:00 PM
Read the last post in that thread and all will be clear. Or less clear, as the case may be.

Yes. I see title has changed. Still not sure why the previous language was so definitive.

God bless the kid, how whatever decision he makes works out for the best.

Kedsy
04-23-2017, 08:41 AM
I am a firm believer that in order to go far in march than 1 of our best 2 players has to be a senior captain...

It may be my imagination, but this claim seems to keep evolving over the years. At this point, I believe maybe it has evolved past its usefulness.

Using Duke Final Four teams as the population of our teams that have "[gone] far in March," your requirements were clearly not met in 1966, 1978, 1990, and 1991, and a very strong argument can be made that they weren't met in 2004 and 2015, as well.

When between 25% and 38% of your data points don't meet your criteria, I would argue those criteria do not constitute a legitimate requirement.