Lawmakers propose pulling UNC, N.C. State from ACC if conference boycotts state

[nmduke2001]

Mods, if this crosses the line to policy, please delete. I just thought people would find it interesting.

https://www.si.com/college-basketball/2017/04/12/north-carolina-hb2-bill-acc-championship-boycott-nc-state

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Well, it has been proven once again that the only way to get North Carolina to pay attention to certain issues is to screw around with basketball.

I wish our state would stop coming up with new and exciting ways to embarrass me.

[Olympic Fan]

I would hate to see NC State pulled from the ACC.

But losing the Cheaters ... it would be the first time in a long time that I would cheer a decision by the UNC legislature.

[CameronBlue]

I would hate to see NC State pulled from the ACC.

But losing the Cheaters ... it would be the first time in a long time that I would cheer a decision by the UNC legislature.

Yeah I'm all for this. The legislature and UNC administrators continue to stake out ethical and moral high ground that would embarrass your average god-fearing Puritan.

[Tripping William]

Call me when Governor Roy Cooper signs either of those bills, or has his veto overridden.

[OZ]

But losing the Cheaters ... it would be the first time in a long time that I would cheer a decision by the UNC legislature.



Wonder what we can do - as residents of NC - to make this happen.

[nmduke2001]

Wonder what we can do - as residents of NC - to make this happen.

I might be in the minority here, but I would hate for UNC and Duke to be in different leagues. Playing home and home is part of what makes the rivalry so great

[Jeffrey]

I might be in the minority here, but I would hate for UNC and Duke to be in different leagues. Playing home and home is part of what makes the rivalry so great

Strongly agree! It would be insane to mess with the greatest rivalry in college hoops!

Of course, it's just a bluff.

[Olympic Fan]

I might be in the minority here, but I would hate for UNC and Duke to be in different leagues. Playing home and home is part of what makes the rivalry so great

Before the scandal, I would have agreed with you 100 percent.

But when we learned that UNC is the most corrupt athletic program in college sports, it ruined the rivalry in my eyes. I don't want to play them home-and-away.

In fact, Duke refused to play UNC in any sport from about 1896 to 1920, due to the fact that UNC was fielding professionals at the end of the century. The 24-year gap in the series allowed UNC to clear up its act (to some degree) and made the rivalry better.

I think we could use something like that now -- how about an announced 10 year moratorium on playing the Cheats? At the end of 10 years we can see whether or not they have cleaned up their act.

Then we might have a rivalry to be proud of.

I see no value in continuing to play them as long as they continue to deny and defy.

[BD80]

Bu-bye!

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Before the scandal, I would have agreed with you 100 percent.

But when we learned that UNC is the most corrupt athletic program in college sports, it ruined the rivalry in my eyes. I don't want to play them home-and-away.

In fact, Duke refused to play UNC in any sport from about 1896 to 1920, due to the fact that UNC was fielding professionals at the end of the century. The 24-year gap in the series allowed UNC to clear up its act (to some degree) and made the rivalry better.

I think we could use something like that now -- how about an announced 10 year moratorium on playing the Cheats? At the end of 10 years we can see whether or not they have cleaned up their act.

Then we might have a rivalry to be proud of.

I see no value in continuing to play them as long as they continue to deny and defy.
Was this common practice among universities at the time? Or were they simply sowing the seeds of the future Carolina Way?

[BD80]

... In fact, Duke refused to play UNC in any sport from about 1896 to 1920, due to the fact that UNC was fielding professionals at the end of the century. ....

And yet those professionals completed more actual coursework than tar heels circa the next turn of the century.

[English]

A couple of thoughts here:
1) This sounds like a prohibition to compete in conference events, which suggests that the teams would instead forfeit the outcome. I'd have no beef with unc (and to a lesser extent NCSU) not winning another conference game in any sport as harikari for some political moral ground that has no buy-in from the players, coaches, ADs, etc. Duke stays above the fray.
2) If, indeed, this is some veiled threat to secede from the ACC if it once again levies a ban on the Old North State, there is that small matter of the $52.5MM exit fee. I don't see the taxpayers agreeing to a referendum on that.

To my view, this a nothing but a hollow stunt that will be called out as the clear bluff it is. ACC-2, NCGA-0.

[Olympic Fan]

Was this common practice among universities at the time? Or were they simply sowing the seeds of the future Carolina Way?

It was fairly common ... although I would guess a minority of competing institutions.

You have to understand, this was before the NCAA or any governing body. There were widely accepted norms as to what constituted amateurism.

The use of pros continued well into the '30s (although from about the time of WWI, it was hidden)

[Olympic Fan]

A couple of thoughts here:
1) This sounds like a prohibition to compete in conference events, which suggests that the teams would instead forfeit the outcome. I'd have no beef with unc (and to a lesser extent NCSU) not winning another conference game in any sport as harikari for some political moral ground that has no buy-in from the players, coaches, ADs, etc. Duke stays above the fray.
2) If, indeed, this is some veiled threat to secede from the ACC if it once again levies a ban on the Old North State, there is that small matter of the $52.5MM exit fee. I don't see the taxpayers agreeing to a referendum on that.

To my view, this a nothing but a hollow stunt that will be called out as the clear bluff it is. ACC-2, NCGA-0.

I could be wrong, but I believe the exit fee was replaced in 2014 by the grant of rights .... UNC and NC State could leave the ACC, but the ACC would retain their TV rights until (I think) 2026. So UNC and State would have to compete for almost a decade with no TV money to pay for their programs.

I think you are right that this is just a grandstand play with no chance of being enacted.

[fuse]

Beyond any basketball heartburn, the $50 million per school exit fee gives me more angst as an NC taxpayer.

The ongoing ability of state and federal governments to focus on the wrong things and make things worse has stopped surprising me.

[devildeac]

I could be wrong, but I believe the exit fee was replaced in 2014 by the grant of rights ... UNC and NC State could leave the ACC, but the ACC would retain their TV rights until (I think) 2026. So UNC and State would have to compete for almost a decade with no TV money to pay for their programs.

I think you are right that this is just a grandstand play with no chance of being enacted.

I'd take two annual MBB games and a FB game with NCSU for the next 20 years+ instead of with the vermin down the road. And yes, I do realize I have insulted vermin again with that association.

[Jeffrey]

I see no value in continuing to play them as long as they continue to deny and defy.

Isn't it the NCAA's job to enforce the rules and regulations? Are we so bothered by this issue that we should leave the NCAA?

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

It is nothing but an expensive, distracting bluff.

[Olympic Fan]

Isn't it the NCAA's job to enforce the rules and regulations? Are we so bothered by this issue that we should leave the NCAA?

I know for a fact that Duke stopped playing ECU in football for almost a decade because AD Tom Butters thought the Pirates were cheating and getting away with it. When the NCAA finally arrived, smacked ECU with probation and forced them to clean up their act and Ed Emory was fired, Duke resumed the series.

The ECU football game was always a big money maker, but Butters (a big golfer) told me, "What do you do when a guy you're playing is constantly improving his lie? You stop playing with him."

That's the approach I'd like to see Duke take with the Cheaters now.

Unfortunately, we CAN"T stop playing them while we're both in the ACC.

That's why it would be so sweet if the NC Legislature forced UNC to withdraw from the ACC.

I know it's not going to happen, but it's nice to dream about.

[Henderson]

This is what I call "hillbilly legislation". [You include a "t" if you really are a hillbilly]:

It's a reaction to legitimate policy that, to garner attention for its proponents and seen to be doing something, lashes out. Local hillbillies applaud, and it goes nowhere.

Iowa has pesticide control regulations. One of their problems is the wild sunflower, an invasive species that inhibits agriculture from Iowa's point of view. Invades corn and soybean fields. So years ago, Iowa included the sunflower among those plants that constituted a Class 2 "noxious weed", allowing more aggressive control operations. http://www.weeds.iastate.edu/reference/weedlaw.htm

Well, it so happens that the sunflower is the state flower of Kansas.

So what do legislators in Kansas do? Some proposed a year-round hunting season on the Eastern Goldfinch. It's a pretty little song bird the size of a sparrow but happens to be Iowa's state bird.

Hillbilly legislation.

[JetpackJesus]

They have proposed House Bill 728, filed Tuesday, which states any public state school in a conference that boycotts North Carolina would be barred from "extending any grant of media rights to the conference" and "shall immediately provide written notice to the conference that the constituent institution intends to withdraw from the conference no later than when the assignment of its media rights expire, unless the conference immediately ends the boycott."
Source (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/19142531/under-new-bill-north-carolina-nc-state-required-withdraw-acc-conference-boycotts-state)

In 2013 all the ACC schools granted their media rights through 2026-27. (http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/9200081/acc-media-rights-deal-lock-schools-okd-presidents) Assuming the language in the bill ESPN quoted does not lack important context, then if this bill were to pass the effect would be that UNC and NCSU would announce to the ACC that they will leave the conference after 2026-27 season. So this law really wouldn't do anything at all even if it were passed.

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

Before the scandal, I would have agreed with you 100 percent.

But when we learned that UNC is the most corrupt athletic program in college sports, it ruined the rivalry in my eyes. I don't want to play them home-and-away.

In fact, Duke refused to play UNC in any sport from about 1896 to 1920, due to the fact that UNC was fielding professionals at the end of the century. The 24-year gap in the series allowed UNC to clear up its act (to some degree) and made the rivalry better.

I think we could use something like that now -- how about an announced 10 year moratorium on playing the Cheats? At the end of 10 years we can see whether or not they have cleaned up their act.

Then we might have a rivalry to be proud of.

I see no value in continuing to play them as long as they continue to deny and defy.

Now THAT"S a GREAT idea!!!!!!!! Wish I had come up with it! Bless your heart --- really! I did't know about our refusing to play the cheats way back in the day! thanks for the history lesson.
Love, Ima

[bcsu]

Source (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/19142531/under-new-bill-north-carolina-nc-state-required-withdraw-acc-conference-boycotts-state)

In 2013 all the ACC schools granted their media rights through 2026-27. (http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/9200081/acc-media-rights-deal-lock-schools-okd-presidents) Assuming the language in the bill ESPN quoted does not lack important context, then if this bill were to pass the effect would be that UNC and NCSU would announce to the ACC that they will leave the conference after 2026-27 season. So this law really wouldn't do anything at all even if it were passed.

or 2035-2036...

https://www.si.com/college-football/2016/07/21/acc-network-secures-conferences-future-realignment

[JetpackJesus]

or 2035-2036...

https://www.si.com/college-football/2016/07/21/acc-network-secures-conferences-future-realignment

Good call. I forgot about that being part of the ACC Network thing.

[dukelifer]

I guess these folks really wants to make it clear that are about to introduce even more legislation to discriminate. Well if you want to discourage people and companies from moving to NC- this is one way to do it. UNC and NC State are going to suffer with a massive brain drain with these folks controlling the purse strings. At this rate, the only folks left who may be offering courses at UNC will be the secretaries.

[Tom B.]

I guess these folks really wants to make it clear that are about to introduce even more legislation to discriminate. Well if you want to discourage people and companies from moving to NC- this is one way to do it. UNC and NC State are going to suffer with a massive brain drain with these folks controlling the purse strings. At this rate, the only folks left who may be offering courses at UNC will be the secretaries.

Not "about to." They already are.

This bill will go nowhere, but I don't think it's a coincidence that it also was filed this week.

NC House bill seeks to make gay marriage illegal again, defying Supreme Court (http://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article144006904.html)

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Not "about to." They already are.

This bill will go nowhere, but I don't think it's a coincidence that it also was filed this week.

NC House bill seeks to make gay marriage illegal again, defying Supreme Court (http://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article144006904.html)

Saw that this morning.

Our tax dollars at work.

[BD80]

Not "about to." They already are.

This bill will go nowhere, but I don't think it's a coincidence that it also was filed this week.

NC House bill seeks to make gay marriage illegal again, defying Supreme Court (http://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article144006904.html)

On behalf of the non-gay community, I believe that is discrimination. We are entitled to the same protection under the law.

[Tom B.]

Saw that this morning.

Our tax dollars at work.

And this, from one of the bill's sponsors:

NC legislator compares Hitler to Abraham Lincoln in Facebook post (http://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article144216324.html)


N.C. Rep. Larry Pittman, a Concord Republican, said in a Facebook post Wednesday that President Abraham Lincoln was a “tyrant” similar to Germany’s Adolf Hitler.

Pittman was responding to commenters on his campaign Facebook page who were criticizing his bill that would have directed state government to defy a U.S. Supreme Court ruling and restore the state constitution’s ban on same-sex marriage.

[Henderson]

And this, from one of the bill's sponsors:

NC legislator compares Hitler to Abraham Lincoln in Facebook post (http://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article144216324.html)

I rest my case.

[Jeffrey]

I know for a fact that Duke stopped playing ECU in football for almost a decade because AD Tom Butters thought the Pirates were cheating and getting away with it. When the NCAA finally arrived, smacked ECU with probation and forced them to clean up their act and Ed Emory was fired, Duke resumed the series.

The ECU football game was always a big money maker, but Butters (a big golfer) told me, "What do you do when a guy you're playing is constantly improving his lie? You stop playing with him."

That's the approach I'd like to see Duke take with the Cheaters now.



Tom and I try to solve these issues differently. I have a problem with doing the regulators job for them, since they are also part of the problem. IMO, the NCAA needs to do their job and every major AD needs to sign a letter demanding the NCAA do their job.

As you might expect, the Commissioner of my regulatory agency hates to take my calls, because he knows I'm going to demand he do his job. However, he also knows he must or I will stand in front of multiple cameras stating the truth.

[weezie]

... Duke stays above the fray...

The air is fresher and better for health up here. Waaaay up here. Gazing down upon the troglodytes. With disdain.

[sagegrouse]

Lawmakers propose pulling UNC, N.C. State from ACC if conference boycotts state

Mods, if this crosses the line to policy, please delete. I just thought people would find it interesting.

https://www.si.com/college-basketball/2017/04/12/north-carolina-hb2-bill-acc-championship-boycott-nc-state
The unintended result of the proposed legislation will be to demonstrate the impotence of the North Carolina legislature in having any influence over intercollegiate athletics involving Carolina and State.

[FadedTackyShirt]

Source (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/19142531/under-new-bill-north-carolina-nc-state-required-withdraw-acc-conference-boycotts-state)

In 2013 all the ACC schools granted their media rights through 2026-27. (http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/9200081/acc-media-rights-deal-lock-schools-okd-presidents) Assuming the language in the bill ESPN quoted does not lack important context, then if this bill were to pass the effect would be that UNC and NCSU would announce to the ACC that they will leave the conference after 2026-27 season. So this law really wouldn't do anything at all even if it were passed.

All moot, but...

If both schools could somehow regain their media rights, B1G could conceivably add UNC, but wouldn't need NCSU. SEC might take NCSU and B1G and SEC would fight over Texas to get to 16.

Backlash over UNC and NCSU not playing annually would be fierce. Legislature would have to fix that boo boo. Duke could just fart in UNC's and the NC legislature's general direction...

[mph]

How has this thread not become a public policy discusion?

[camion]

How has this thread not become a public policy discusion?

It's concerns sports. That's more like religion. :eek:

[mph]

It's concerns sports. That's more like religion. :eek:

Ha! Yeah, I'm not talking about the OP but several of the subsequent posts that have to do with the NC legislature in general rather than the specific bill in question. Are the mods OK with us continuing down that path?

[kako]

All moot, but...

If both schools could somehow regain their media rights, B1G could conceivably add UNC, but wouldn't need NCSU. SEC might take NCSU and B1G and SEC would fight over Texas to get to 16.


Well, that assumes the other conferences would take in NC schools. The optics would be pretty poor for them if they did, so they probably would pass. Higher ed is clearly on the anti-HB2 side. So UNC and NCSU might end up being independents. And what about the other NC public universities? Would they get pulled, too? If so, then it's an all NC conference. Just check yourself before you go to the bathroom.

All moot because this won't come to pass, because money talks.

[WakeDevil]

The air is fresher and better for health up here. Waaaay up here. Gazing down upon the troglodytes. With disdain.

Who are the troglodytes?

[devildeac]

The air is fresher and better for health up here. Waaaay up here. Gazing down upon the troglodytes. With disdain.


Who are the troglodytes?

Hmm, I think I know to whom weezie is referring if you consider this definition:


"A lower-functioning subspecies humanoid that usually inhabits subterranean dwellings, and enjoys frequenting Wal-Mart..."

;)

[miramar]

And this, from one of the bill's sponsors:

NC legislator compares Hitler to Abraham Lincoln in Facebook post (http://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article144216324.html)

Politicians (and their press secretaries) who have no idea what Hitler did really should stop talking about him.

Perhaps they can start referring to Kaiser Wilhelm or Mussolini for a change.

[moonpie23]

how can this thread still be open?

[subzero02]

Well, it has been proven once again that the only way to get North Carolina to pay attention to certain issues is to screw around with basketball.

I wish our state would stop coming up with new and exciting ways to embarrass me.

At least your state has a chance at redemption.... I live in Florida.