A proposal to solve the one and done issues and the paying of athletes issue

[Ian]

After thinking about it, I think I've come up with the solution.

With the recent clamoring for athlete who earn big bucks for the NCAA to be compensated, and what is IMO the foremost reason all players jump to the NBA ASAP (players want to get paid), I think the solution is to allow players to get paid.

All any NCAA student athlete, (although it will only actually matter to football and basketball players in college) should be allowed by the NCAA to be paid without losing eligibility. But not paid by the schools, instead by third party booster clubs unaffiliated with the school. With no limit to the amount.

This would solve the problem of Title IX, since they are being paid by third parties the school is not obligated as a result to pay all scholarship athletes. It would allow the compensation to be enough so that some player won't jump to the league at any cost. It would also allow college to actually act as minor league system since you can be paid and still play in college, so a guy who went pro but would be sent to the D-League can instead be re-enrolled at college while be paid. The only caveat being once a player enrolls in college the NBA cannot recall him to the pros until after his college season is over.

In addition, every year of professional ball (in the NBA or anywhere else in the world) would count toward one year of college eligibility. So a player can't go pro and play in the NBA for 4 years and then go back to college ball.

[LasVegas]

Yeah, so Ohio state can offer recruits 20k a year while Boise state can only offer 5k a year? No thanks.

[ChillinDuke]

Is this thread real? As in, does it exist...in the world?

- Chillin

[nmduke2001]

Yeah, so Ohio state can offer recruits 20k a year while Boise state can only offer 5k a year? No thanks.

$20k? More like $200,000

I think the solution is pretty easy. Give kids the right to go pro out of HS. Make the D-League better. Kid gets drafted, goes to D-League, they make D-League salary. When they go up to the NBA team, they get NBA salary. If they choose to not go to the draft they must stay in college for 3 years. The NBA "second" contract is not years of service in the league but rather age. With age as the hurdle there is no incentive to get the NBA as soon as possible. Kids that want to go the college, can go, and stay. Those willing to risk it, can go pro and hopefully make the NBA. Otherwise, they make D-League money and hope to get better. Those kids probably didn't want to go to college anyway.

[UNCfan]

This will go exactly the opposite way he expected. Ha!

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

After thinking about it, I think I've come up with the solution.

With the recent clamoring for athlete who earn big bucks for the NCAA to be compensated, and what is IMO the foremost reason all players jump to the NBA ASAP (players want to get paid), I think the solution is to allow players to get paid.

All any NCAA student athlete, (although it will only actually matter to football and basketball players in college) should be allowed by the NCAA to be paid without losing eligibility. But not paid by the schools, instead by third party booster clubs unaffiliated with the school. With no limit to the amount.

This would solve the problem of Title IX, since they are being paid by third parties the school is not obligated as a result to pay all scholarship athletes. It would allow the compensation to be enough so that some player won't jump to the league at any cost. It would also allow college to actually act as minor league system since you can be paid and still play in college, so a guy who went pro but would be sent to the D-League can instead be re-enrolled at college while be paid. The only caveat being once a player enrolls in college the NBA cannot recall him to the pros until after his college season is over.

In addition, every year of professional ball (in the NBA or anywhere else in the world) would count toward one year of college eligibility. So a player can't go pro and play in the NBA for 4 years and then go back to college ball.


From another thread a few weeks ago:


Because if it's all the same in the sense of on the court success, I'd rather follow a program that I can watch players develop grow over 4 years.

I figured you would be posting on IC by now.

[jcastranio]

Allow NBA/NFL/NHL/ML teams to draft and sign anyone they want (within the normal confines of the draft procedures). Players could not be "Free Agents" until their class had graduated or until they had actually completed their first contract and actually played in the minor or major leagues.

Players who have signed a contract can attend the college of their choice and use their four years of eligibility. Their money goes into a trust, from which they can draw a monthly allowance. Extreme family needs could also be addressed.

Colleges get to keep players for longer than a year (basketball). Pro leagues get a more-rounded, better-educated, more experienced product. In addition, players have more of a chance to create name recognition and marketing value.

This year, for example, Harry Giles could sign a contract with the Suns, put it in a trust, and play two more years at Duke before joining the league. etc.

[Richard Berg]

It's a good start, but why limit income to fan clubs? Athletes should be allowed to coach youth leagues, or endorse the local Ford dealership, or play overseas during the off season. So long as it's not coming out of the education budget, any money can be considered "clean" -- just like side jobs are for students on non-athletic scholarships.

[Richard Berg]

Allow NBA/NFL/NHL/ML teams to draft and sign anyone they want (within the normal confines of the draft procedures). Players could not be "Free Agents" until their class had graduated or until they had actually completed their first contract and actually played in the minor or major leagues.

Players who have signed a contract can attend the college of their choice and use their four years of eligibility. Their money goes into a trust, from which they can draw a monthly allowance. Extreme family needs could also be addressed.

Colleges get to keep players for longer than a year (basketball). Pro leagues get a more-rounded, better-educated, more experienced product. In addition, players have more of a chance to create name recognition and marketing value.

This year, for example, Harry Giles could sign a contract with the Suns, put it in a trust, and play two more years at Duke before joining the league. etc.
This arrangement should certainly be allowed, if both parties consent, but it would only apply to a tiny handful of players. There's a reason "draft & stash" strategy is usually confined to 2nd-rounders. Once you've signed a guaranteed contract, the franchise won't want you wasting time on Rocks for Jocks.

[MarkD83]

I used to think about how to "fix" the one and done issue and then did some math. (These are approximations because I don't want to look up the actual numbers)

There are 60 or so players that go pro early each year. Some of them are not one and done so that reduces the number to 20 or so per year that are true one and dones and not two and through (Luke) or more. (As an aside someone like Luke went to Duke the summer before his freshman year, the full freshman and sophomore years and could have taken some classes over the summer. If he came in with AP credits you could actual imagine he is only 2 semesters away from graduating. That means even though he won't be playing basketball for Duke next year he could be very close to getting a degree.)

I digress, so back to the math....There are 300+ division 1 schools that offer 13 scholarships so 3900 scholarships each year that are offered. So 0.5% of the Div I scholarships are affected by one and dones. Of course if those 20 leave there are 20 high school seniors who actually get a scholarship that would not have gotten one if the one and dones stayed around. So in fact leaving early does a lot to promote academics. (I'll leave that comment hanging for now since it should be good for 2-3 pages of "discussion".)

In addition, the schools that have one and dones usually have a series of them. Irving, Rivers, Parker, Ingram, Tatum, Giles.... If anyone of them had stayed the chances of getting the next in the series decreases.

That means there really is no "one and done" issue to solve.

[Ian]

It's a good start, but why limit income to fan clubs? Athletes should be allowed to coach youth leagues, or endorse the local Ford dealership, or play overseas during the off season. So long as it's not coming out of the education budget, any money can be considered "clean" -- just like side jobs are for students on non-athletic scholarships.

I would not limit it to fan clubs, just used it as an example, but yes, they should be able to be paid from any third party source, including a pro-contract with the NBA or another professional basketball league.

In essence, just don't tie college eligibility to amateruism any more.

[hudlow]

Call Fats.

[camion]

I would not limit it to fan clubs, just used it as an example, but yes, they should be able to be paid from any third party source, including a pro-contract with the NBA or another professional basketball league.

In essence, just don't tie college eligibility to amateruism any more.

Why tie the athlete or team to a college at all then? Just have minor league pro teams.


Or was that already tried a few miles down the road?

[Ian]

I used to think about how to "fix" the one and done issue and then did some math. (These are approximations because I don't want to look up the actual numbers)

There are 60 or so players that go pro early each year. Some of them are not one and done so that reduces the number to 20 or so per year that are true one and dones and not two and through (Luke) or more. (As an aside someone like Luke went to Duke the summer before his freshman year, the full freshman and sophomore years and could have taken some classes over the summer. If he came in with AP credits you could actual imagine he is only 2 semesters away from graduating. That means even though he won't be playing basketball for Duke next year he could be very close to getting a degree.)

I digress, so back to the math...There are 300+ division 1 schools that offer 13 scholarships so 3900 scholarships each year that are offered. So 0.5% of the Div I scholarships are affected by one and dones. Of course if those 20 leave there are 20 high school seniors who actually get a scholarship that would not have gotten one if the one and dones stayed around. So in fact leaving early does a lot to promote academics. (I'll leave that comment hanging for now since it should be good for 2-3 pages of "discussion".)

In addition, the schools that have one and dones usually have a series of them. Irving, Rivers, Parker, Ingram, Tatum, Giles... If anyone of them had stayed the chances of getting the next in the series decreases.

That means there really is no "one and done" issue to solve.

Fair point, and my purpose not specifically the OAD as much as the pressure that all players face to leave ASAP to get paid, even if it meant they languish on the D-League. This removes that because they can get compensated without leaving, and going pro doesn't prevent them from coming back.

[Ian]

Why tie the athlete or team to a college at all then? Just have minor league pro teams.


Or was that already tried a few miles down the road?

Honestly ideally that would be my preference, but that is not going to happen, the market exists for college teams but not for minor leagues. And in addition there have been a strong push for college athletes to get paid. If they are going to get paid anyway, just let them get paid without the schools doing it.

[hsheffield]

Does anyone know the salary range of D league players?

(excluding those who are sent down from the NBA to get some playing time)

[kAzE]

Does anyone know the salary range of D league players?

(excluding those who are sent down from the NBA to get some playing time)

20-25k a year. It's not much, and before this year (salaries have recently increased), it was as low as 13k for some players:

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/242860/d-league-increases-salaries-for-16-17-season

[PeteZaHut]

I think you should do away with athletic scholarships. Then, schools can be permitted to pay their players in cash up to the total cost of tuition, room, and board. You get a fat check at the beginning of every semester. Do with it what you wish, but you owe tuition just like everybody else.

[Ian]

20-25k a year. It's not much, and before this year (salaries have recently increased), it was as low as 13k for some players:

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/242860/d-league-increases-salaries-for-16-17-season

Because nobody watches and nobody cares about the D-League. I bet most big time college programs can get boosters to pay players multiple times that.

[Ian]

I think you should do away with athletic scholarships. Then, schools can be permitted to pay their players in cash up to the total cost of tuition, room, and board. You get a fat check at the beginning of every semester. Do with it what you wish, but you owe tuition just like everybody else.

The problem is school would have to pay all their athletes including the non-revenue ones, and they can't afford it, making it third party resolves that problem.

[kako]

Because nobody watches and nobody cares about the D-League. I bet most big time college programs can get boosters to pay players multiple times that.

The D League exists for players who want to get a chance at the NBA. Players can make far more money overseas, or just even working at In-N-Out for that matter. The D League is funded by the NBA, so they strive to keep expenses small. They tend to put teams in places where at least the local community might go to the games, selling tickets/concessions/parking to at least break even on using the facilities. But it's no money maker. Players don't complain, as they know it's much easier to get a call up for a 10-day from Fort Wayne than Tel Aviv.

Until the NCAA gets off it's high horse of hypocrisy ("Oh, these are STUDENT-ATHLETES"), they have no reason to push for change unless they see their money maker (the tourney) losing ratings. The NBA doesn't care so much - they will get the players when they get the players... and in the meantime, they already have players. Status quo until money talks, or if the students gang up somehow like they did in the Mizzou football strike threat. But getting college kids to align across the country would be pretty tough. I think the deck is stacked against change.

[Ian]

The D League exists for players who want to get a chance at the NBA. Players can make far more money overseas, or just even working at In-N-Out for that matter. The D League is funded by the NBA, so they strive to keep expenses small. They tend to put teams in places where at least the local community might go to the games, selling tickets/concessions/parking to at least break even on using the facilities. But it's no money maker. Players don't complain, as they know it's much easier to get a call up for a 10-day from Fort Wayne than Tel Aviv.

Until the NCAA gets off it's high horse of hypocrisy ("Oh, these are STUDENT-ATHLETES"), they have no reason to push for change unless they see their money maker (the tourney) losing ratings. The NBA doesn't care so much - they will get the players when they get the players... and in the meantime, they already have players. Status quo until money talks, or if the students gang up somehow like they did in the Mizzou football strike threat. But getting college kids to align across the country would be pretty tough. I think the deck is stacked against change.

I don't disagree, but with more and more people calling for NCAA athletes to be paid, the groundswell is going to keep building and it's not going to stop, so maybe the NCAA could for once get in front of it.

[PeteZaHut]

The problem is school would have to pay all their athletes including the non-revenue ones, and they can't afford it, making it third party resolves that problem.

It shouldn't wind up being an expense for schools. For most of student athletes, and the vast majority of them are legitimate student athletes, they will pay 100% of that money back to the school in tuition.

[AluminumDuke]

My problem with the OAD rule is that it pushes some players to go to college for a year that would otherwise have no interest in going and would prefer to enter the draft right out of high school. While I can see potential merit in the argument that some such players benefit from that year (or more if they don't perform well enough to be OAD) in college, I fear that their presence in college requires too much trust in the integrity of those responsible for educating them.

Given that I don't have access to evidence to prove or disprove it, I choose to believe that Duke takes seriously the obligation to educate its student athletes and would not exploit players with OAD level talent by allowing them to play basketball without making a sincere effort to take advantage of the educational opportunities available to them during their time at Duke.

I find it harder to believe that this responsibility is taken that seriously at all colleges and universities. The scandal at UNC would certainly suggest otherwise.

All that being said, it is naive to think that the NBA cares about our opinion of the OAD rule. The rule wasn't instituted to help students or colleges. It was instituted to reduce the risk that NBA teams take when they draft unproven talent. Too many draft picks were wasted on players who, against high school competition, seemed to have the potential to be the next Kobe or Lebron. A year of college basketball dampens that risk.

The only way that colleges and universities could force the NBA's hand would be to not play freshmen, either by redshirting them all or by returning to the old model of freshman teams. I can't see coaches and universities ever agreeing to this as a rule.

[swood1000]

It would also allow college to actually act as minor league system since you can be paid and still play in college, so a guy who went pro but would be sent to the D-League can instead be re-enrolled at college while be paid.

This is one of the principal arguments against allowing salaries in college, the fact that D-Leagues or minor leagues just don't have much fan support and we'd be converting college basketball to that.

I wonder what the impact of Justice Gorsuch will be on the question of college sports and anti-trust.

[kako]

I don't disagree, but with more and more people calling for NCAA athletes to be paid, the groundswell is going to keep building and it's not going to stop, so maybe the NCAA could for once get in front of it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZVgl49yPzg

Color me cynical.