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View Full Version : What if Grayson comes back and we got what we got?



jcastranio
04-07-2017, 01:35 PM
We would have:

Guards:

Allen (Sr)
Jackson (Soph)
Trent (Fr)
Collins (Fr)

Swing:
Robinson (Jr)
White (Soph)

Bigs:
Vrank (Jr)
Javin (Soph)
Bolden (Soph)
Carter (Fr)

That's a team I could cheer for. I would not be unhappy. Some bumps and bruises along the way, but solid development for some key players (Vrank, Bolden, White, Javin). No additional one and dones to take playing time, but also stunt growth for the following year. Yeah, I know there is no "point guard." I could see a starting lineup of:

Allen
Jackson
Javin
Bolden
Carter

Vrank, Trent, White as key players off the bench.

I am not saying that I would not welcome any of the other three possible recruits. I am just saying that I would be happy and excited to the team listed above as well. I can see three double digit scorers (Allen, Jackson, Carter) with 3 point shooting taking a slight back seat from previous years. This team would have to really run an open, motion offense and would have to learn together to defend man-to-man as a team. This team would also be playing together all summer and fall with (hopefully) no injuries and a real chance to get to know one another.

flyingdutchdevil
04-07-2017, 01:52 PM
We would have:

Guards:

Allen (Sr)
Jackson (Soph)
Trent (Fr)
Collins (Fr)

Swing:
Robinson (Jr)
White (Soph)

Bigs:
Vrank (Jr)
Javin (Soph)
Bolden (Soph)
Carter (Fr)

That's a team I could cheer for. I would not be unhappy. Some bumps and bruises along the way, but solid development for some key players (Vrank, Bolden, White, Javin). No additional one and dones to take playing time, but also stunt growth for the following year. Yeah, I know there is no "point guard." I could see a starting lineup of:

Allen
Jackson
Javin
Bolden
Carter

Vrank, Trent, White as key players off the bench.

I am not saying that I would not welcome any of the other three possible recruits. I am just saying that I would be happy and excited to the team listed above as well. I can see three double digit scorers (Allen, Jackson, Carter) with 3 point shooting taking a slight back seat from previous years. This team would have to really run an open, motion offense and would have to learn together to defend man-to-man as a team. This team would also be playing together all summer and fall with (hopefully) no injuries and a real chance to get to know one another.

You're suggesting we start 3 frontcourt players, 2 of which have no semblance of a jumper/3pt shot and the other which has somewhat of a reputation for a jumper but likely won't use it at Duke?

Duke likes having 3 shooters on the floor at all times (and often 4 shooters). It's tough to remember the last time a line-up was used without at least 3 shooters.

I would be shocked if Duke entered the season with a) that starting line-up and b) that roster.

jcastranio
04-07-2017, 01:58 PM
Perhaps, with that roster, Trent or White would start in front of Javin. It is true that we don't have as many shooters with this imagined line-up.

jcastranio
04-07-2017, 01:59 PM
Only Knox would be an additional "shooter" from distance. Duvall is not known for his 3 point prowess.

scottdude8
04-07-2017, 02:09 PM
In the situation you describe where we get no additional recruits, I think a much more likely starting lineup is Frank, Grayson, Gary, Marques and Wendell (I think that's what a couple of the other posters were implying). That's a starting lineup that can compete in the ACC, even though the lack of depth would be a huge issue.

But, like many of the more informed people on the board are saying, it's very likely we get one or two more impact recruits this spring. If that's the case we're in a much more favorable scenario, especially considering we'd then have the option to either go to a twin towers Marques and Wendell lineup or one with more of a stretch-4 like we have in the recent past.

We're a long way to having a real idea of what our team will look like. Hopefully we'll hear good news about Grayson sooner rather than later so we can all breathe a little bit.

Kedsy
04-07-2017, 03:23 PM
Collins (Fr)

You mean O'Connell?

dukelifer
04-07-2017, 03:55 PM
You mean O'Connell?

O'Connell is a poor man's Luke Kennard. I will bet this kid emerges because he can shoot and is crafty around the hoop.

flyingdutchdevil
04-07-2017, 04:12 PM
O'Connell is a poor man's Luke Kennard. I will bet this kid emerges because he can shoot and is crafty around the hoop.

He needs to put on 30+ pounds to come close to a poor man's Luke. Luke wasn't the strongest kid, but he couldn't be pushed around. O'Connell is basically has Ingram's body without the athleticism.

Devilwin
04-07-2017, 05:06 PM
He needs to put on 30+ pounds to come close to a poor man's Luke. Luke wasn't the strongest kid, but he couldn't be pushed around. O'Connell is basically has Ingram's body without the athleticism.

His dad was a good player, as I recall.

dukelifer
04-07-2017, 05:33 PM
He needs to put on 30+ pounds to come close to a poor man's Luke. Luke wasn't the strongest kid, but he couldn't be pushed around. O'Connell is basically has Ingram's body without the athleticism.

From what I can see- he is more athletic than you would think. He is skinny but has some hops like his Dad.

slower
04-07-2017, 05:36 PM
O'Connell is a poor man's Luke Kennard. I will bet this kid emerges because he can shoot and is crafty around the hoop.

Forgive me for starting this, but he looks like the prime candidate for the next hated Duke player (especially if Grayson moves on). Just sayin...

dukelifer
04-07-2017, 06:44 PM
Forgive me for starting this, but he looks like the prime candidate for the next hated Duke player (especially if Grayson moves on). Just sayin...

Well that will happen if he scores a lot- so that might be a good outcome.

MarkD83
04-07-2017, 07:23 PM
Forgive me for starting this, but he looks like the prime candidate for the next hated Duke player (especially if Grayson moves on). Just sayin...

Here is hoping we always have a most hated player....that means Duke is winning a lot of games.

chriso
04-09-2017, 10:02 AM
We would have:

Guards:

Allen (Sr)
Jackson (Soph)
Trent (Fr)
Collins (Fr)

Swing:
Robinson (Jr)
White (Soph)

Bigs:
Vrank (Jr)
Javin (Soph)
Bolden (Soph)
Carter (Fr)

That's a team I could cheer for. I would not be unhappy. Some bumps and bruises along the way, but solid development for some key players (Vrank, Bolden, White, Javin). No additional one and dones to take playing time, but also stunt growth for the following year. Yeah, I know there is no "point guard." I could see a starting lineup of:

Allen
Jackson
Javin
Bolden
Carter

Vrank, Trent, White as key players off the bench.

I am not saying that I would not welcome any of the other three possible recruits. I am just saying that I would be happy and excited to the team listed above as well. I can see three double digit scorers (Allen, Jackson, Carter) with 3 point shooting taking a slight back seat from previous years. This team would have to really run an open, motion offense and would have to learn together to defend man-to-man as a team. This team would also be playing together all summer and fall with (hopefully) no injuries and a real chance to get to know one another.

Has anyone read the Jeff Goodwin article/tweet saying there's a "decent chance" Grayson returns? I'm new here and don't want to start rumors but this sounds promising. Please be true. This would put Duke right back in the hunt next year. :) And make the recruits we don't have yet a bit more of a luxury as opposed to a necessity. :)

UrinalCake
04-09-2017, 10:34 PM
In the situation you describe where we get no additional recruits, I think a much more likely starting lineup is Frank, Grayson, Gary, Marques and Wendell

That's what I would see as well. I see Bolden only averaging around 25 minutes though, so I think we would see Javin a fair amount and even some small ball with White at the 4. Vrank would see a fair amount of minutes too. It would be a real departure from the OAD superstar-laden teams we've had lately, and I would absolutely root for this team as hard as any.

Dukehky
04-09-2017, 11:00 PM
Has anyone read the Jeff Goodwin article/tweet saying there's a "decent chance" Grayson returns? I'm new here and don't want to start rumors but this sounds promising. Please be true. This would put Duke right back in the hunt next year. :) And make the recruits we don't have yet a bit more of a luxury as opposed to a necessity. :)

I would try to get the name of your people right. That is Jeff Goodman, and yeah, I think we are getting to the point where it would be surprising if Grayson wasn't back.

Duke76
04-10-2017, 11:03 AM
I would try to get the name of your people right. That is Jeff Goodman, and yeah, I think we are getting to the point where it would be surprising if Grayson wasn't back.

I think he is in process of going to Coach K and staff and telling them he wants to lead the freshmen in the "Duke way", feels its his obligation and he won't let them down nor embarrass them next yr with any tripping incidences...then he will lead them to the promised land and have his jersey retired by K. Sound about right?

chriso
04-10-2017, 11:06 AM
Has anyone read the Jeff Goodwin article/tweet saying there's a "decent chance" Grayson returns? I'm new here and don't want to start rumors but this sounds promising. Please be true. This would put Duke right back in the hunt next year. :) And make the recruits we don't have yet a bit more of a luxury as opposed to a necessity. :)

My bad. Jeff Goodman. I shouldn't post before coffee. Hopefully Grayson announces this week that he's staying. I like that lineup, even if we don't get anyone else. :cool: But I'm sure we'll add at least one. Duval is the priority IMO.

flyingdutchdevil
04-10-2017, 11:15 AM
My bad. Jeff Goodman. I shouldn't post before coffee. Hopefully Grayson announces this week that he's staying. I like that lineup, even if we don't get anyone else. :cool:

It's a good line-up if you don't like depth. Also, I don't trust next year's offensive ability as much as this year. And a clear-cut PG - even one that likes to shoot - will certainly help.

If Grayson comes back and we get Duval, I'll be very happy.

I really want Knox, but I'm really curious to see how Coach K utilizes two amazing big men in Carter and Bolden with only really big men available on the bench (Vrank). I think Knox is really important, but we have a really good team with Duval, Allen, Jackson, Trent, Bolden, Carter, and Vrank/White (assuming only one plays).

chriso
04-10-2017, 11:25 AM
It's a good line-up if you don't like depth. Also, I don't trust next year's offensive ability as much as this year. And a clear-cut PG - even one that likes to shoot - will certainly help.

If Grayson comes back and we get Duval, I'll be very happy.

I really want Knox, but I'm really curious to see how Coach K utilizes two amazing big men in Carter and Bolden with only really big men available on the bench (Vrank). I think Knox is really important, but we have a really good team with Duval, Allen, Jackson, Trent, Bolden, Carter, and Vrank/White (assuming only one plays).

Yeah I hear you. I'm torn on Knox. For sure he's good, but I want to see a 3 guard line up of Grayson, Frank and Duval with Carter and Bolden down low. I'm afraid if we get Knox those other guys (White, Vrank and Delaurier) won't play and develop. Of course I'm projecting here. But keep Grayson and add Duval and we're ready to rumble. :)

ndkjr70
04-10-2017, 11:52 AM
Yeah I hear you. I'm torn on Knox. For sure he's good, but I want to see a 3 guard line up of Grayson, Frank and Duval with Carter and Bolden down low. I'm afraid if we get Knox those other guys (White, Vrank and Delaurier) won't play and develop. Of course I'm projecting here. But keep Grayson and add Duval and we're ready to rumble. :)

I trust that the greatest coach in the history of sports will know how to manage a "problem" like adding Knox ;)

Kedsy
04-10-2017, 12:01 PM
I think Knox is really important, but we have a really good team with Duval, Allen, Jackson, Trent, Bolden, Carter, and Vrank/White (assuming only one plays).

I suspect that if that's our roster, then DeLaurier would be the 3rd big in the rotation, rather than Vrankovic or White.

NM Duke Fan
04-10-2017, 12:07 PM
I suspect that if that's our roster, then DeLaurier would be the 3rd big in the rotation, rather than Vrankovic or White.

I really like the energy and bounce that DeLaurier brings to the table, if he develops some more skills during the off-season he can be a very valuable contributor. I think some are sleeping on him.

flyingdutchdevil
04-10-2017, 12:08 PM
I suspect that if that's our roster, then DeLaurier would be the 3rd big in the rotation, rather than Vrankovic or White.

Yup. Completely forgot about DeLaurier. Agree. He's clearly ahead of Vrank/White.

I'm as high on DeLaurier as any. Can't believe I forgot him.

jv001
04-10-2017, 10:06 PM
Yup. Completely forgot about DeLaurier. Agree. He's clearly ahead of Vrank/White.

I'm as high on DeLaurier as any. Can't believe I forgot him.

I like DeLaurier and Vrank. But I would rather see Knox and Bamba in a Duke uniform. GoDuke!

Bluedog
04-10-2017, 10:14 PM
Yup. Completely forgot about DeLaurier. Agree. He's clearly ahead of Vrank/White.

I'm as high on DeLaurier as any. Can't believe I forgot him.

Just wondering, but why is DeLaurier clearly ahead of Vrank? Vrank played 101 minutes this past season and DeLaurier played 85. Not saying it's going to necessarily stay that way though.

rsvman
04-10-2017, 10:21 PM
Just wondering, but why is DeLaurier clearly ahead of Vrank? Vrank played 101 minutes this past season and DeLaurier played 85. Not saying it's going to necessarily stay that way though.

DeLaurier was injured for part of the season, so comparing minutes may not be completely fair.

CajunDevil
04-11-2017, 09:39 AM
Just wondering, but why is DeLaurier clearly ahead of Vrank? Vrank played 101 minutes this past season and DeLaurier played 85. Not saying it's going to necessarily stay that way though.

A couple of reasons (I think), (1) the frosh-to-soph jump that players usually get gives fans hope that frosh players will blossom their soph yr a la Luke; and (2) the athleticism DeLaurier displayed would allow for him to play more positions (4 or 5) than Vrank (only the 5), thus adding flexibility to the units K puts on the floor.

Troublemaker
04-11-2017, 09:43 AM
Just wondering, but why is DeLaurier clearly ahead of Vrank? Vrank played 101 minutes this past season and DeLaurier played 85. Not saying it's going to necessarily stay that way though.

The makeup of the roster favors Javin over Vrank. I would expect that all 40 minutes at center would be consumed by Bolden and Carter. Now, those two will play together some as well, but when Bolden is resting, I would expect that Carter (who is 6'10, 260 lbs, 7'3" wingspan) will slide up and become the center. As of right now, backup PF minutes are more available.

flyingdutchdevil
04-11-2017, 09:56 AM
Just wondering, but why is DeLaurier clearly ahead of Vrank? Vrank played 101 minutes this past season and DeLaurier played 85. Not saying it's going to necessarily stay that way though.

DeLaurier was a relatively highly ranked recruit (#35, RSCI). He also has the tools that make him a high-potential player (incredibly athletic, strong, solid build, mobile). He's like a stronger, more athletic Lance Thomas. Also, DeLaurier could play both the 4/5, if Coach K doesn't mind 4s who can't shoot.

I like Vrank, but he's an old-school Eastern European behemoth. I hope I'm wrong, but I see Vrank as a 10 min guy tops throughout his career. I see DeLaurier as a starter during his junior and senior years.

Indoor66
04-11-2017, 10:33 AM
I like Vrank, but he's an old-school Eastern European behemoth. I hope I'm wrong, but I see Vrank as a 10 min guy tops throughout his career. I see DeLaurier as a starter during his junior and senior years.

That's what they said about Zoubek as well....

kAzE
04-11-2017, 11:20 AM
DeLaurier was a relatively highly ranked recruit (#35, RSCI). He also has the tools that make him a high-potential player (incredibly athletic, strong, solid build, mobile). He's like a stronger, more athletic Lance Thomas. Also, DeLaurier could play both the 4/5, if Coach K doesn't mind 4s who can't shoot.

I like Vrank, but he's an old-school Eastern European behemoth. I hope I'm wrong, but I see Vrank as a 10 min guy tops throughout his career. I see DeLaurier as a starter during his junior and senior years.

I hadn't thought about comparing him to Lance. I think Lance was probably much quicker, especially on the perimeter. He was a Swiss army knife on defense, able to defend 4-5 positions. Javin could probably reasonably defend 2-3 positions, but I'm not expecting him to guard opposing point guards with much success.

To me, Javin is a stronger and bouncier Amile Jefferson. He and Amile are exactly the same height (6'9"), and have exactly the same wingspan (7'0"). However, Javin somehow has an 8'10" standing reach (compared to Amile's 8'5"), is significantly bulkier than Amile was as a freshman (222 pounds vs 197 coming in to Duke), and obviously has more bounce. Now, if he becomes 80% the vocal leader that Amile was, he might be really special.

arnie
04-11-2017, 12:18 PM
I hadn't thought about comparing him to Lance. I think Lance was probably much quicker, especially on the perimeter. He was a Swiss army knife on defense, able to defend 4-5 positions. Javin could probably reasonably defend 2-3 positions, but I'm not expecting him to guard opposing point guards with much success.

To me, Javin is a stronger and bouncier Amile Jefferson. He and Amile are exactly the same height (6'9"), and have exactly the same wingspan (7'0"). However, Javin somehow has an 8'10" standing reach (compared to Amile's 8'5"), is significantly bulkier than Amile was as a freshman (222 pounds vs 197 coming in to Duke), and obviously has more bounce. Now, if he becomes 80% the vocal leader that Amile was, he might be really special.

I agree with all of this. Javin is the type player I want to see stay for 4 years. Hope that happens as he could be very special as a jr./sr.

NM Duke Fan
04-11-2017, 01:39 PM
I agree with all of this. Javin is the type player I want to see stay for 4 years. Hope that happens as he could be very special as a jr./sr.

A key question to me is to what degree he is capable of developing the skills of a stretch 4 on offense, in terms of shooting and passing from the free throw line area and maybe a bit further out. I just don't know, but he certainly has the athleticism that can be very useful for a stretch 4, and with his high motor and enthusiasm I suspect his D is going to come along nicely. With a great height and weight for that position, I look forward to the start of next season to see how much specific skill development has taken place. Combined with Bolden, Carter, and Vrank, that is some very nice size and a variety of body types inside.