One small bright spot now that I think of it.

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

The heels I know were calling for Ol' Roy's head earlier. Now he's being referred to as "a legend" by announcers. Looks like his job is safe and we'll get to keep him around a while, bless his da'gum heart.
Love, Ima:)

[flyingdutchdevil]

The heels I know were calling for Ol' Roy's head earlier. Now he's being referred to as "a legend" by announcers. Looks like his job is safe and we'll get to keep him around a while, bless his da'gum heart.
Love, Ima:)

How is that a bright spot? Roy is an exceptional coach. The hatred towards Ol' Roy I get on this board. The lack of respect as a coach I don't. His job over the last two years has been excellent.

[CameronBlue]

How is that a bright spot? Roy is an exceptional coach. The hatred towards Ol' Roy I get on this board. The lack of respect as a coach I don't. His job over the last two years has been excellent.

Yes, ol Roy is a paragon of virtue. Well except for that cheating thing. Which is of course completely beside your point. But if you reject the notion of contextualizing the conversation surrounding Roy, as I do, the lack of respect thing is perfectly apt and justified. Yes, he has guided the current group of players masterfully over the last 2 years, and probably they will be better human beings because of the experience. It makes him no less despicable to me on balance. I'm just not going to submit to what I consider a myopic point of view.

[CDu]

Yes, ol Roy is a paragon of virtue. Well except for that cheating thing. Which is of course completely beside your point. But if you reject the notion of contextualizing the conversation surrounding Roy, as I do, the lack of respect thing is perfectly apt and justified. Yes, he has guided the current group of players masterfully over the last 2 years, and probably they will be better human beings because of the experience. It makes him no less despicable to me on balance. I'm just not going to submit to what I consider a myopic point of view.

I am pretty sure the Dutchman was not referring to virtue in his post. He was talking about Williams' abilities as a basketball coach. Hating on Williams is fine. But saying he's a bad coach neglects the fact that his teams tend to be really successful.

I'll be quite pleased when Williams retires. It will then put UNC under pressure to find a suitable replacement. And considering that there are no coaches in the UNC tree that are as viable as there are in the Duke tree right now, that appears to be currently advantage Duke.

Williams remaining as coach at UNC is not a good thing for Duke.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I am pretty sure the Dutchman was not referring to virtue in his post. He was talking about Williams' abilities as a basketball coach. Hating on Williams is fine. But saying he's a bad coach neglects the fact that his teams tend to be really successful.

I'll be quite pleased when Williams retires. It will then put UNC under pressure to find a suitable replacement. And considering that there are no coaches in the UNC tree that are as viable as there are in the Duke tree right now, that appears to be currently advantage Duke.

Williams remaining as coach at UNC is not a good thing for Duke.

100% yes. And I was referring to coaching, not virtue as you suggested.

Williams has been nothing short of fantastic for the Heels over the last two years. IMO, he's been the "best" coach during that span (best is obviously subjective, but he's done a lot with really good talent).

[dukelifer]

I am pretty sure the Dutchman was not referring to virtue in his post. He was talking about Williams' abilities as a basketball coach. Hating on Williams is fine. But saying he's a bad coach neglects the fact that his teams tend to be really successful.

I'll be quite pleased when Williams retires. It will then put UNC under pressure to find a suitable replacement. And considering that there are no coaches in the UNC tree that are as viable as there are in the Duke tree right now, that appears to be currently advantage Duke.

Williams remaining as coach at UNC is not a good thing for Duke.

I am hoping that Roy chooses an early retirement as well- but his knees may preclude him from doing much else even at 66. He could easily coach for another 5 or more years. We will be lucky if K has another 5 years.

[lotusland]

Natty nothwithstanding I did not see a brilliantly coached team on the court Monday night. I know an ugly championship is still a championship so kudos I guess.

[kAzE]

Williams remaining as coach at UNC is not a good thing for Duke.

I don't necessarily agree with this . . .

It's true that Roy is undoubtedly one of the greatest coaches of all time. The list of other coaches who have won 3 national championships can be counted on one hand: John Wooden, Coach K, Adolph Rupp, Jim Calhoun, and Bob Knight.

However, he's 13-21 all time vs. Duke (12-18 since becoming UNC's head coach). Dean Smith was 59-35 vs. Duke. So would I rather Roy be UNC's coach than Dean Smith? Hell yes.

Also, Roy has not won very many recruiting battles vs. Coach K. Harrison Barnes was a pretty high profile one, yes, but for the most part, we have won way more recruiting battles with UNC as of late. Brandon Ingram and Harry Giles are 2 homegrown North Carolina kids who chose Duke over UNC.

Roy cannot out-recruit us, and he's way below .500 head to head vs. us.

Yes, he's one of the best coaches ever, but he's just not that threatening when it comes to Duke. It was fun while Doherty was in Chapel Hill, but Carolina was always going to get a good coach eventually. I'll settle for a guy who just can't seem to beat Duke consistently.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I don't necessarily agree with this . . .

It's true that Roy is undoubtedly one of the greatest coaches of all time. The list of other coaches who have won 3 national championships can be counted on one hand: John Wooden, Coach K, Adolph Rupp, Jim Calhoun, and Bob Knight.

However, he's 13-21 all time vs. Duke. Dean Smith was 59-35 vs. Duke. So would I rather Roy be UNC's coach than Dean Smith? Hell yes.

Also, Roy has not won very many recruiting battles vs. Coach K. Harrison Barnes was a pretty high profile one, yes, but for the most part, we have won way more recruiting battles with UNC as of late. Brandon Ingram and Harry Giles are 2 homegrown North Carolina kids who chose Duke over UNC.

Roy cannot out-recruit us, and he's way below .500 head to head vs. us.

Yes, he's one of the best coaches ever, but he's just not that threatening when it comes to Duke.

I am 10x more upset that UNC won the title than when UNC beat us this year. And it isn't even close.

[CDu]

I don't necessarily agree with this . . .

It's true that Roy is undoubtedly one of the greatest coaches of all time. The list of other coaches who have won 3 national championships can be counted on one hand: John Wooden, Coach K, Adolph Rupp, Jim Calhoun, and Bob Knight.

However, he's 13-21 all time vs. Duke. Dean Smith was 59-35 vs. Duke. So would I rather Roy be UNC's coach than Dean Smith? Hell yes.

Also, Roy has not won very many recruiting battles vs. Coach K. Harrison Barnes was a pretty high profile one, yes, but for the most part, we have won way more recruiting battles as of late. Brandon Ingram and Harry Giles are 2 homegrown North Carolina kids who chose Duke over UNC.

Roy cannot out-recruit us, and he's way below .500 head to head vs. us.

Yes, he's one of the best coaches ever, but he's just not that threatening when it comes to Duke.

And he has 3 national titles, another Final Four, and a championship game in his time at UNC. Yes, he hasn't done well against Duke. But he has done well nationally. And that matters.

And more importantly, he is almost certainly doing better than the NEXT guy will do at UNC. Which was my point.

Just look at what happened prior to Williams arriving at UNC. Matt Doherty bottomed out their program. Williams staying at UNC is NOT a good thing for Duke, because the next guy to take the job is almost certainly going to be a lesser option than Williams.

[kAzE]

And he has 3 national titles, another Final Four, and a championship game in his time at UNC. Yes, he hasn't done well against Duke. But he has done well nationally. And that matters.

And more importantly, he is almost certainly doing better than the NEXT guy will do at UNC. Which was my point.

Just look at what happened prior to Williams arriving at UNC. Matt Doherty bottomed out their program. Williams staying at UNC is NOT a good thing for Duke, because the next guy to take the job is almost certainly going to be a lesser option than Williams.

I don't disagree with this, but how does this actively hurt Duke? Yes, Roy staying at UNC helps UNC, I'm just failing to see how it's bad for Duke. Both teams being good helps both teams. It makes our league and our rivalry more prominent and relevant, which attracts interest and high level recruits to both schools. As long as we are better than them, it doesn't really make a difference to me.

I guess I just have a different mindset. I'm just not that much of hater . . . I cared more about our head to head match ups this year than Carolina's post season outcome. I was rooting for Gonzaga to be sure, but definitely not harder than I was rooting for Duke when we played UNC. If anything, UNC winning the title validates how good we were this year to have beaten them twice.

Yes, it sucks that they have 1 more championship than we do, but I'm hopeful we will even that up in the next few years. Roy doesn't scare me. He's good, but we still have the G.O.A.T.

[porkpa]

I'll likely catch hell for this. One of the things that in my opinion, Roy Williams and Dean Smith before him, have over Coach K is that he uses his players.
I'm sure that its a help in recruiting and I'm even more sure that its a benefit in allowing his players to become what they can become.
Even when the opposition is clearly inferior and defeated, Coach K doesn't start to use his bench until the closing minutes.
I just cannot fathom four or five kids playing thirty plus minutes a game, while you have several players who I believe would be of benefit to the team and themselves by playing three, four and five minutes a game instead of picking splinters out of their behinds. It has to be very discouraging.
I really dislike seven men rotations.
I guess the bottom line though is that he is the one and only Coach K and I'm a schlub with the temerity to criticize him.

[OldPhiKap]

Anything that helps UNC is bad in my scale of the world.

Unless and until the NCAA drops the hammer of justice (which I increasingly doubt it ever really will), Roy at UNC helps the Heels and therefore hurts Duke.

[CDu]

I don't disagree with this, but how does this actively hurt Duke? Yes, Roy staying at UNC helps UNC, I'm just failing to see how it's bad for Duke. Both teams being good helps both teams. It makes our league and our rivalry more prominent and relevant, which attracts interest and high level recruits to both schools. As long as we are better than them, it doesn't really make a difference to me.

I guess I just have a different mindset. I cared more about our head to head match ups this year than Carolina's post season outcome. I was rooting for Gonzaga to be sure, but definitely not harder than I was rooting for Duke when we played UNC. If anything, UNC winning the title validates how good we were this year to have beaten them twice.

Yes, it sucks that they have 1 more championship than we do, but I'm hopeful we will even that up in the next few years. Roy doesn't scare me. He's good, but we still have the G.O.A.T.

It actively hurts Duke because - as a Duke fan living in the Triangle - I HATE seeing UNC have success. Nobody at UNC is giving a rat's behind that we beat them twice this year right now. Nor are they caring that Williams has a losing record against Duke.

We don't need UNC to be great to attract recruits. Kentucky is having no problem attracting recruits despite playing in a joke of a conference. Same for Arizona. Being a really good team with a coach that can recruit is all that matters in recruiting.

[kAzE]

It actively hurts Duke because - as a Duke fan living in the Triangle - I HATE seeing UNC have success. Nobody at UNC is giving a rat's behind that we beat them twice this year right now. Nor are they caring that Williams has a losing record against Duke.

We don't need UNC to be great to attract recruits. Kentucky is having no problem attracting recruits despite playing in a joke of a conference. Same for Arizona. Being a really good team with a coach that can recruit is all that matters in recruiting.

Aha . . . there's the key. I lived in Durham as a kid, but my family moved to Lexington, KY right before I got to 4th grade, and aside from 2 years of grad school at Duke, I have not lived in North Carolina since. Having to deal with obnoxious friends is definitely a problem (mine are just all UK fans).

As for the 2nd part, I agree, Duke would get great recruits regardless of UNC's status, but every recruit who gets interviewed talks about the Duke/UNC rivalry, and how they watched that game. A lot of kids want to be a part of that rivalry, and it adds just a bit more fuel to what we offer as a program over the UKs and Kansases who just dominate their conferences. When Duke plays UNC, EVERYONE is watching. That's unique.

[TampaDuke]

While I do think Roy's a good coach, let's see what he can do with next year's roster (or the year or two after that). Unless he scores some major recruiting coups, he's gonna come back to reality real quick. Sylvia Hatchell is probably also a good coach, but she looks to have been a better coach before 2015.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

I don't necessarily agree with this . . .

It's true that Roy is undoubtedly one of the greatest coaches of all time. The list of other coaches who have won 3 national championships can be counted on one hand: John Wooden, Coach K, Adolph Rupp, Jim Calhoun, and Bob Knight.

However, he's 13-21 all time vs. Duke (12-18 since becoming UNC's head coach). Dean Smith was 59-35 vs. Duke. So would I rather Roy be UNC's coach than Dean Smith? Hell yes.

Also, Roy has not won very many recruiting battles vs. Coach K. Harrison Barnes was a pretty high profile one, yes, but for the most part, we have won way more recruiting battles with UNC as of late. Brandon Ingram and Harry Giles are 2 homegrown North Carolina kids who chose Duke over UNC.

Roy cannot out-recruit us, and he's way below .500 head to head vs. us.

Yes, he's one of the best coaches ever, but he's just not that threatening when it comes to Duke. It was fun while Doherty was in Chapel Hill, but Carolina was always going to get a good coach eventually. I'll settle for a guy who just can't seem to beat Duke consistently.

Recruiting results in the rankings are of little importance. What matters most is what you do with those recruits. The ultimate measure of success is winning championships - it doesn't matter how you do it. Most of the time good recruiting is a means to the end of winning, but not always. I'm sure Roy and all of the Carolina fans would rather have this title than Ingram and Giles.

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

I think (and Roy would probably agree with me) that he's been the luckiest basketball coach in the modern era.

He's never built a program from the ground up, but rather had the good fortune of being in the right place at the right time to inherit not one, but TWO established programs that were darn hard to mess up. Then he cheated at both of them and has never been nailed for either one.

Sorry, but Im not a fan of this "legend". If I were in a foxhole, he's not the kind of guy I'd want in there with me, bless his heart. Oh wait. Maybe his luck would hold out for both of us.
Love, Ima

[bluebeagle]

There's a lot of coaches that could have won a title with the talent he won the titles with. I think he's a good coach but nothing special. Could he have done better with States players this year or Georgia Tech's. Maybe, maybe not. Could he have done better with Dukes team this year. I doubt it.

[CDu]

There's a lot of coaches that could have won a title with the talent he won the titles with. I think he's a good coach but nothing special. Could he have done better with States players this year or Georgia Tech's. Maybe, maybe not. Could he have done better with Dukes team this year. I doubt it.

Part of coaching is recruiting. Both in terms of identifying the players that are best for what you want to do and in getting said players to commit to you.

Williams is a "system" coach. He is dogmatic in his philosophy, and if he has a weakness as a coach it is that he is too inflexible even when his roster doesn't work for what he wants to do. He is not known for being an in-game x's and o's guy either, rather he relies on his players to do what he spent all season teaching them to do. But he has historically done a pretty darn good job of recruiting the right guys to play his system, and he has historically done a good job preparing them to run his system.

I don't think it is appropriate to say "well he only wins because of the talent he has," because acquiring said talent is part of coaching.

And, yes, I feel all slimy having written it. But it is true.

[jipops]

I do agree that Roy is an excellent coach in terms of putting a roster together, if you consider that to be an actual part of "coaching". While not always full of lottery picks, he has consistently been able to put together very balanced and experienced teams. Kansas and uncCHeat have enhanced that ability. One of the exceptions was 2010 and we saw how that turned out. Roy is clearly out of his comfort zone when in a position to compensate. But I think abilities as a coach are often subjective and over-rated. I don't think one philosophy always works better than another. The nature of the roster largely decides how a season is going to go. Basketball is a nuanced sport, but it's not rocket science. It's not like there is this small select group of coaches that have more knowledge and ability than everybody else. The best thing a coach can do is not get in the way (which is what Doherty did). I think the best in-game coaches are those that aren't afraid to adjust and take risks.

And when it comes to actual in-game strategy and decision making, anyone who followed bball during the Dean era would be completely nuts to think that Roy is now superior.

Roy sticking around is good for the ACC and basketball fans in general (except for that whole cheating thing). He generates discussion. I don't think he has real special abilities as a coach, but as a personality he definitely draws people in.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I don't think he has real special abilities as a coach, but as a personality he definitely draws people in.

He's one charming southern gentleman. When you hear him interviewed, he seems quite pleasant genuine and pleasant. He loves his program, his kids, and his golf, dadgummmit.