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awhom111
03-27-2017, 01:28 AM
It's about time to have a thread with festivities coming up and using the recruiting one alone would be unfair to Jade Williams.

Participation in the Jam Fest is surprisingly secretive, but it is on ESPN2 live at 8:00pm ET on Monday and then replayed at 10:30pm ET on ESPNU and then again at various times.

On Wednesday, Jade will play at 5:00pm ET on ESPN2 and then Wendell and Gary and any other number of uncommitted players will have their broadcast at 7:00pm ET on ESPN assuming the preceding game ends in a timely manner.

brevity
03-27-2017, 01:46 AM
Rosters (http://www.mcdonaldsallamerican.com/content/aag/en/MediaCenter/2017/2017-game-materials/2017-final-team-roster.html) for the young men. And the earlier announcement (http://www.mcdonaldsallamerican.com/content/aag/en/MediaCenter/2017/2017-game-materials/2017-Morgan-Wootten-POY-Winners.html) that Wendell Carter, Jr. was named the 2017 Morgan Wootten Player of the Year.

Troublemaker
03-27-2017, 03:48 AM
Wendell's on the East team. Gary's on the West team.

Duval, Knox, and Bamba are all on the East, so the bulk of the recruiting will be on Wendell's shoulders.

English
03-27-2017, 02:07 PM
Early, potentially meaningless, word out of the McDAA's practice sessions this morning are:

1. Trey Duval throwing sweet ally-oops for Wendell to flush...in foreshadowing of CIS 2017-18*
2. Kevin Knox messed around and had a highly impressive practice showing his improved confidence and prowess in his shooting from range.


*We're due for something positive breaking our way, amirite?!

flyingdutchdevil
03-27-2017, 02:28 PM
Early, potentially meaningless, word out of the McDAA's practice sessions this morning are:

1. Trey Duval throwing sweet ally-oops for Wendell to flush...in foreshadowing of CIS 2017-18*
2. Kevin Knox messed around and had a highly impressive practice showing his improved confidence and prowess in his shooting from range.


*We're due for something positive breaking our way, amirite?!

Yes, but if you remain optimistic, you'll set yourself up for disappointment.

Sigh...2017 has been a really crappy year in so many ways...

Troublemaker
03-27-2017, 02:36 PM
Yes, but if you remain optimistic, you'll set yourself up for disappointment.

Sigh...2017 has been a really crappy year in so many ways...

Some of you guys need help. Unless there's something personal going on in your life, FDD -- and I hope that isn't the case -- maybe step away from DBR a bit.

It's just sports, folks. Dumb, unimportant sports. Don't let it get you down...

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
03-27-2017, 02:47 PM
Some of you guys need help. Unless there's something personal going on in your life, FDD -- and I hope that isn't the case -- maybe step away from DBR a bit.

It's just sports, folks. Dumb, unimportant sports. Don't let it get you down...

True. Someone once told me "sports is great because it allows you to care a lot about something that doesn't matter."

Troublemaker
03-27-2017, 08:00 PM
Participation in the Jam Fest is surprisingly secretive, but it is on ESPN2 live at 8:00pm ET on Monday and then replayed at 10:30pm ET on ESPNU and then again at various times.

Bump. Trent will be part of the 3-pt shootout. Knox, too. ESPN2 now.

kshepinthehouse
03-27-2017, 09:53 PM
Who won?

Utley
03-27-2017, 09:57 PM
I can't see Bamba coming to Duke - he didn't get hurt when he fell after his dunk

Utley
03-27-2017, 10:10 PM
Who won?

Trae Young won the men's 3 point contest - but one of the women actually beat him. She was money at the end. I believe Knox was second and Trent third. Trent started out on fire and then faded. Knox's showing reinforced the view that his shot has come a long way.

A kid from Alabama won the slam dunk contest - I think Duval was his assist guy a few times. Small kid - ridiculous hops. Duval didn't compete at all - nor did Carter.

You could tell Bamba isn athletic freak - but he didn't execute his dunks.

Furniture
03-27-2017, 10:40 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/ESPNU/status/846520811406135296/photo/1

subzero02
03-27-2017, 11:43 PM
Trae Young won the men's 3 point contest - but one of the women actually beat him. She was money at the end. I believe Knox was second and Trent third. Trent started out on fire and then faded. Knox's showing reinforced the view that his shot has come a long way.

A kid from Alabama won the slam dunk contest - I think Duval was his assist guy a few times. Small kid - ridiculous hops. Duval didn't compete at all - nor did Carter.

You could tell Bamba isn athletic freak - but he didn't execute his dunks.

Sexton won the dunk contest. He is 6'3" and will attend Alabama... freakish hops.

English
03-28-2017, 10:44 AM
Sexton won the dunk contest. He is 6'3" and will attend Alabama... freakish hops.

Also a pretty great salad.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
03-28-2017, 01:12 PM
Sexton won the dunk contest. He is 6'3" and will attend Alabama... freakish hops.

Sounds like a different thread to me...

kAzE
03-29-2017, 01:23 PM
Who's planning on watching the game tonight? I'm going to try really hard not to buy too much into the hype this time (I thought Bolden was going to be Duke's starting center after watching highlights of last year's game), but I'm looking forward to seeing Gary and Wendell play, as well as the Knox/Duval/Bamba trio. Looks like Gary is the only Dukie/potential Dukie on the West team, while the other 4 guys of interest are on the East squad with 4 committed Kentucky Wildcats.

Troublemaker
03-29-2017, 01:30 PM
Who's planning on watching the game tonight? I'm going to try really hard not to buy too much into the hype this time (I thought Bolden was going to be Duke's starting center after watching highlights of last year's game), but I'm looking forward to seeing Gary and Wendell play, as well as the Knox/Duval/Bamba trio. Looks like Gary is the only Dukie/potential Dukie on the West team, while the other 4 guys of interest are on the East squad with 4 committed Kentucky Wildcats.

You know, you were actually right about Bolden. He started the first exhibition game against Virginia St, played really well, and Duke was running stuff for him (high-lows, guards setting cross-screens to free him in the paint). Then he got injured.

I would love to see how things would've played out with Marques had he not gotten injured.

CDu
03-29-2017, 01:38 PM
You know, you were actually right about Bolden. He started the first exhibition game against Virginia St, played really well, and Duke was running stuff for him (high-lows, guards setting cross-screens to free him in the paint). Then he got injured.

I would love to see how things would've played out with Marques had he not gotten injured.

I'm not sure that an exhibition game against a woefully undersized Virginia State team when both Tatum and Giles were out is a very good point of reference. I mean, in the next game (after Bolden got hurt), Chase Jeter started and went for 15 and 12. And that certainly didn't lead to a noteworthy season from him.

I'm not saying that the injury definitely didn't completely derail Bolden's season. I'm skeptical of it, but willing to say it is possible. Just saying that I'm not sure he would have been destined for a great year - or a long-term starting role - without the injury anyway.

Troublemaker
03-29-2017, 01:46 PM
I'm not sure that an exhibition game against a woefully undersized Virginia State team when both Tatum and Giles were out is a very good point of reference. I mean, in the next game (after Bolden got hurt), Chase Jeter started and went for 15 and 12. And that certainly didn't lead to a noteworthy season from him.

I'm not saying that the injury definitely didn't completely derail Bolden's season. I'm skeptical of it, but willing to say it is possible. Just saying that I'm not sure he would have been destined for a great year - or a long-term starting role - without the injury anyway.

I'm not 100% sure either but I consider it likely that he would've continued starting had he remained healthy. He wouldn't have been a 35 mpg starter like a Kennard was this season. But I think he would've provided 20-25 mpg of good center play.

mr. synellinden
03-29-2017, 01:49 PM
2 minutes from the McD AA game practices (http://www.courtsidefilms.com/news_article/show/775397--1-hs-pg-trevon-duval-mcdaag-practice-highlights-). Not much to be gleaned from this, but it does appear Duval is running with Carter and Knox.

Troublemaker
03-29-2017, 01:57 PM
2 minutes from the McD AA game practices (http://www.courtsidefilms.com/news_article/show/775397--1-hs-pg-trevon-duval-mcdaag-practice-highlights-). Not much to be gleaned from this, but it does appear Duval is running with Carter and Knox.

Then why am I drooling?

Pick-and-roll with Wendell x 5!

Give-and-go with Wendell!

mr. synellinden
03-29-2017, 02:27 PM
From nbadraft.net:

http://www.nbadraft.net/mcdonalds-all-american-practice-notes

English
03-29-2017, 02:27 PM
Just a little nugget, to add to what Wendell has already been saying in interviews about his nonstop recruitment efforts of Knox, Duval, and Bamba...Wendell is rooming with Mo Bamba throughout the week's festivities. Noteworthy? Perhaps not, but certainly not a bad thing.

Rich
03-29-2017, 02:34 PM
Then why am I drooling?

Pick-and-roll with Wendell x 5!

Give-and-go with Wendell!

Don't worry, the Duke coaching staff can break them of those bad habits! :rolleyes:

CDu
03-29-2017, 02:37 PM
2 minutes from the McD AA game practices (http://www.courtsidefilms.com/news_article/show/775397--1-hs-pg-trevon-duval-mcdaag-practice-highlights-). Not much to be gleaned from this, but it does appear Duval is running with Carter and Knox.

I can certainly see the physical/athletic resemblance to Derrick Rose. I REALLY hope he winds up at Duke!

kAzE
03-29-2017, 02:47 PM
2 minutes from the McD AA game practices (http://www.courtsidefilms.com/news_article/show/775397--1-hs-pg-trevon-duval-mcdaag-practice-highlights-). Not much to be gleaned from this, but it does appear Duval is running with Carter and Knox.

Some pretty impressive passing by Duval in those clips. I'm taking them with a grain of salt, since highlights are highlights, but I'm impressed by what I saw. My own Derrick Rose comparison almost by default made him a score-first guard in my mind, but those clips showed me that he's capable of making good decisions with the basketball depending on the situation, whether that means setting up a teammate or taking it to the hole himself.

Really looking forward to seeing what he can do in this game.

BigZ
03-29-2017, 02:48 PM
Does Duke need to lose both Luke and Grayson to get Duval?

English
03-29-2017, 02:48 PM
Who's planning on watching the game tonight? I'm going to try really hard not to buy too much into the hype this time (I thought Bolden was going to be Duke's starting center after watching highlights of last year's game), but I'm looking forward to seeing Gary and Wendell play, as well as the Knox/Duval/Bamba trio. Looks like Gary is the only Dukie/potential Dukie on the West team, while the other 4 guys of interest are on the East squad with 4 committed Kentucky Wildcats.

Watching Trey Duval's McDAA highlight clips, I realize that Quade Green is one of the four UK guys also on the East team. Out of curiosity, I wonder how he actually feels about bringing Duval into the fold. He's certainly saying all the right things, but that doesn't really mean much. As it stands, he's clearly the presumptive favorite to run the show next season in Lexington (I doubt Isaiah Briscoe sticks around, but if he does, he's more of a combo guard). With Duval, Quade is at best the primary off-ball guard and backup 1. Obviously no way to know, but thought it was interesting.

kAzE
03-29-2017, 02:49 PM
Does Duke need to lose both Luke and Grayson to get Duval?

Absolutely not. The 3 of them would fit together beautifully on the court. I'm salivating already thinking of how much better both Grayson and Luke would be playing their natural wing positions along side a true point guard like Duval. With 2 elite shooters on the wings, there would be lots of wide open space in the paint for Duval to do his thing. As unlikely as it may be, since all 3 are currently question marks, I really hope it happens.

English
03-29-2017, 02:53 PM
Does Duke need to lose both Luke and Grayson to get Duval?

In no way are Duval and Luke/Grayson mutually exclusive. Luke and Grayson are natural shooting/off-ball guards, and Duval is a PG. They don't play the same position. Unless Duval has an aversion to them personally, or to playing surrounded with top-end talent, I'd actually think one or both of them returning would be appealing to Duval. And obviously there is no scholly crunch, so Duke doesn't need to free up a scholarship through Grayson/Luke defections to welcome Duval.

Troublemaker
03-29-2017, 03:02 PM
My own Derrick Rose comparison almost by default made him a score-first guard in my mind, but those clips showed me that he's capable of making good decisions with the basketball depending on the situation, whether that means setting up a teammate or taking it to the hole himself.

Also, his high school stats (http://usatodayhss.com/2017/all-usa-boys-basketball-first-team-trevon-duval-img-academy-bradenton-fla). 16 points and 8 assists is a good spread at the high school level between scoring and looking for teammates. And he does appear to have nice court vision.

http://i.imgur.com/9pYFaN8.png

English
03-29-2017, 03:15 PM
Also, his high school stats (http://usatodayhss.com/2017/all-usa-boys-basketball-first-team-trevon-duval-img-academy-bradenton-fla). 16 points and 8 assists is a good spread at the high school level between scoring and looking for teammates. And he does appear to have nice court vision.

http://i.imgur.com/9pYFaN8.png

Wow, call me crazy but those seem like really pedestrian HS stats for the top PG recruit in the class. I realize that HS stats are next-to-useless, but you usually see some wildly inflated stat lines for these guys (e.g., Semi Ojeleye averaging ~40pts/gm), rather than a simple 16 & 8. Of course, if a freshman PG at Duke averaged a 16 & 8 (depending on his turnover numbers), that would be just fine with this guy.

Troublemaker
03-29-2017, 03:22 PM
Wow, call me crazy but those seem like really pedestrian HS stats for the top PG recruit in the class. I realize that HS stats are next-to-useless, but you usually see some wildly inflated stat lines for these guys (e.g., Semi Ojeleye averaging ~40pts/gm), rather than a simple 16 & 8. Of course, if a freshman PG at Duke averaged a 16 & 8 (depending on his turnover numbers), that would be just fine with this guy.

Oh yeah, IMG is a high school powerhouse (not just in basketball). He's got talented teammates, and they play talented teams. Think Oak Hill, Montverde, etc. That will tend to deflate the stats.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
03-29-2017, 03:29 PM
Does Duke need to lose both Luke and Grayson to get Duval?

It's written into his contract rider.

CDu
03-29-2017, 03:56 PM
Wow, call me crazy but those seem like really pedestrian HS stats for the top PG recruit in the class. I realize that HS stats are next-to-useless, but you usually see some wildly inflated stat lines for these guys (e.g., Semi Ojeleye averaging ~40pts/gm), rather than a simple 16 & 8. Of course, if a freshman PG at Duke averaged a 16 & 8 (depending on his turnover numbers), that would be just fine with this guy.

It depends on the quality of your team, the style of play for your team, and the quality of your competition.

Ojeleye was a big fish in a small pond. He played on a small school team in Kansas and played against crappy opponents. So he got a TON of shots.

IMG Academy has a bunch of good players and plays on the upper-tier circuit. Tougher competition, both on his team and from opposing teams.

DukeFanSince1990
03-29-2017, 04:03 PM
Oh yeah, IMG is a high school powerhouse (not just in basketball). He's got talented teammates, and they play talented teams. Think Oak Hill, Montverde, etc. That will tend to deflate the stats.

GREAT POINT. He was playing against other future college players.

kAzE
03-29-2017, 04:46 PM
Wow, call me crazy but those seem like really pedestrian HS stats for the top PG recruit in the class. I realize that HS stats are next-to-useless, but you usually see some wildly inflated stat lines for these guys (e.g., Semi Ojeleye averaging ~40pts/gm), rather than a simple 16 & 8. Of course, if a freshman PG at Duke averaged a 16 & 8 (depending on his turnover numbers), that would be just fine with this guy.

Those aren't pedestrian stats to me. 8 assists in high school is a lot . . . Lonzo Ball averaged 19 points and 7 assists in high school, playing at a lower tier school. Keep in mind high school games are 32 minutes long. I'm betting Duval could have easily averaged 20-25 points a game if wanted. He seems to have chosen to get his teammates involved at the cost of his own scoring, which a good thing.

brevity
03-29-2017, 07:13 PM
Watching the game now on ESPN. Duval slices through everyone for a layup on the opening play. Dunks from Carter and Bamba and a 3 from Knox. Sexton with some showy passes as well.

Troublemaker
03-29-2017, 07:24 PM
Watching the game now on ESPN. Duval slices through everyone for a layup on the opening play. Dunks from Carter and Bamba and a 3 from Knox. Sexton with some showy passes as well.

Trent started for the West team. Duval, Knox, Carter, and Bamba all started for the East team. They should've just swapped Sexton for Trent and renamed the East "Duke." What!

DoubleBlue
03-29-2017, 07:36 PM
Anybody seen a live boxscore for the game?

pfrduke
03-29-2017, 07:52 PM
Collin Sexton is an awful lot of fun. He's the kind of quick guard I wish we had on our roster more often.

Reddevil
03-29-2017, 08:20 PM
Bamba is an impressive young man. I loved his interview where he said his relationship with his future coach is important to him. He comes across as a very intelligent young man, and he was cheering for his teammates during the interview. JWill said that in practice, not only was he a rim protector, but talks to the guards, telling them where the picks are being set and that is extremely helpful. He seems really special.

mr. synellinden
03-29-2017, 08:22 PM
Knox just made a great block on Ayton and a few plays later had a nice dunk.

Announcers talking about how he is the youngest guy in the game - doesn't turn 18 until August - and how much potential he has. He is quite an athlete.

JNort
03-29-2017, 08:41 PM
Soooo Collin Sexton is like a dream out on the court

Utley
03-29-2017, 08:45 PM
Both Carter and Knox playing some solid D. Wendell with a nice little baby hook I believe and Knox looking a lot like Tatum - scoring inside and out.

From the parts I saw Duval looked more raw than Sexton, Young or Green - but way to small a sample size to draw any conclusions. Don't remember seeing Trent shoot but no worries on that front.

Bamba would be an incredible get - really does seem like a well rounded kid who would thrive at Duke.

AtlDuke72
03-29-2017, 09:06 PM
Anybody seen a live boxscore for the game?

It would be nice if the announcers would at least occasionally say something about the game. They act like they are having a panel discussion. No way to follow the players. ESPN has reached a new low with this broadcast

AtlDuke72
03-29-2017, 09:37 PM
Anybody seen a live boxscore for the game?

If Bambia and Knox join Carter, kennard , Allen and Duval it is hard to see how anybody will beat them.

kshepinthehouse
03-29-2017, 09:55 PM
If Bambia and Knox join Carter, kennard , Allen and Duval it is hard to see how anybody will beat them.

Don't forget about Frank Jackson

awhom111
03-29-2017, 10:03 PM
Anybody seen a live boxscore for the game?

They have not entered the modern era yet apparently. Here is the final boxscore:
http://www.mcdonaldsallamerican.com/content/aag/en/MediaCenter/2017/2017-game-materials/BoysResults.html

Jade had 8 points and 4 rebounds in 10 minutes in her game:
http://www.mcdonaldsallamerican.com/content/aag/en/MediaCenter/2017/2017-game-materials/GirlsResults.html

subzero02
03-29-2017, 10:07 PM
If Bambia and Knox join Carter, kennard , Allen and Duval it is hard to see how anybody will beat them.

Just reference this season to see how a paper juggernaut can be beaten repeatedly...

AtlDuke72
03-29-2017, 10:24 PM
Don't forget about Frank Jackson

You are right, Jackson will be great next year. Gary Trent is supposed to be at their level too. Don't know if he played much tonight since game was just in the background. Porter is going to the right place. He can be the whole show at Missouri. Seemed like he shot everytime he touched the ball.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
03-29-2017, 10:27 PM
You are right, Jackson will be great next year. Gary Trent is supposed to be at their level too. Don't know if he played much tonight since game was just in the background. Porter is going to the right place. He can be the whole show at Missouri. Seemed like he shot everytime he touched the ball.

He can be Simmons at LSU.

gofurman
03-29-2017, 10:29 PM
Don't forget about Frank Jackson

I much prefer a top 20 guy who is returning (Frank Jackson) to a top 15 guy coming in.. see Kennard, Luke this year vs Bolden etc. Now top 5 guys? Like Tatum - that can be different. But usually top 20 guys need a year or two .. Usually and this has been shown. There are exceptions to every rule - like Winslow and Jones. But most top 20 guys are very good sophomores and somewhat contributors as freshman. Top 50 guys usually need a year or three.

Think of this year - Amile, Matt, Grayson and Luke held us together until Tatum came along and eventually Frank... Giles gets a pass I know. But the best thing that happens to freshman? They become sophomores. So much learning that first year.

Please give us another year Luke and Grayson !

uh_no
03-29-2017, 10:38 PM
Both Carter and Knox playing some solid D.

there was defense being played? Or maybe our standards are, erm, lower than usual.....

Fun to watch game. doesn't mean diddly. It's like one big mixtape for these guys.

westwall
03-29-2017, 10:44 PM
It would be nice if the announcers would at least occasionally say something about the game. They act like they are having a panel discussion. No way to follow the players. ESPN has reached a new low with this broadcast


Sigh! It's the same year after year. I liked the interview with Jefferson (he was the only one watching and commenting on the game) and it was interesting to hear his take on the Final Four with Dunleavy et al, but the ESPN team always seems to be elsewhere, and it never changes!

Ultrarunner
03-29-2017, 10:45 PM
If Bambia and Knox join Carter, kennard , Allen and Duval it is hard to see how anybody will beat them.

Seems I've heard that before, somewhere . . .

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
03-29-2017, 10:50 PM
If Bambia and Knox join Carter, kennard , Allen and Duval it is hard to see how anybody will beat them.

I heard Bambi has maternal issues that would make Lonzo Ball blush.

hibby91
03-29-2017, 11:03 PM
You are right, Jackson will be great next year. Gary Trent is supposed to be at their level too. Don't know if he played much tonight since game was just in the background. Porter is going to the right place. He can be the whole show at Missouri. Seemed like he shot everytime he touched the ball.

I live in KC and the radio announcers were giddy this afternoon about how getting Porter is going to turn their program around. Also, they kept dropping Kevin Knox's name this afternoon because Porter is apparently pushing him to join him. I can't imagine that holds much water, but I noticed on the scroll during the game that they listed Knox's potential schools and Duke, UNCheat, Kentucky, Florida State and Mizzou. Supposedly he is going to make an official visit.

Utley
03-29-2017, 11:36 PM
there was defense being played? Or maybe our standards are, erm, lower than usual....

Fun to watch game. doesn't mean diddly. It's like one big mixtape for these guys.

Fair enough. I thought our boys - including Bamba - played more D than others. After a year without any rim protection I was actually pretty thrilled seeing a couple of plays.

It's been a tough couple of weeks - I will take a couple of breadcrumbs.

uh_no
03-29-2017, 11:38 PM
Fair enough. I thought our boys - including Bamba - played more D than others. After a year without any rim protection I was actually pretty thrilled seeing a couple of plays.

It's been a tough couple of weeks - I will take a couple of breadcrumbs.

oh dear. you've angered the weauxfing gods.

mr. synellinden
03-30-2017, 12:06 AM
I much prefer a top 20 guy who is returning (Frank Jackson) to a top 15 guy coming in.. see Kennard, Luke this year vs Bolden etc. Now top 5 guys? Like Tatum - that can be different. But usually top 20 guys need a year or two .. Usually and this has been shown. There are exceptions to every rule - like Winslow and Jones. But most top 20 guys are very good sophomores and somewhat contributors as freshman. Top 50 guys usually need a year or three.

For what it's worth, Tyus was RSCI #7.

BandAlum83
03-30-2017, 12:07 AM
Duval, Trent, Knox, Carter, Bamba.

Is it really possible that they could all end up on the same team?

Would that be a better 5 than the original Fab 5 as an incoming class?

I'm not saying anything about how good the team would be. Of course, we know the original didn't win a Natty, but they were very good.

Skydog
03-30-2017, 12:28 AM
Sigh! It's the same year after year. I liked the interview with Jefferson (he was the only one watching and commenting on the game) and it was interesting to hear his take on the Final Four with Dunleavy et al, but the ESPN team always seems to be elsewhere, and it never changes!

They were so annoying that I couldn't take it anymore and quit watching. They spent more time talking about a practice we didn't see than the game that was going on. Practice, man. Practice!

dukefan_828
03-30-2017, 01:44 AM
Ok so if you could choose for duke to land only 2 out of our last 3 big targets (duval,bamba,knox) which combo would you choose and why?? Obviously in a perfect world (our recruiting lately has actually been almost close to that) we land all 3 but i just thought it would be fun to hear some opinions.

My choice: Duval, no brainer. And..... Bamba?? I'm really not sure. One could argue we need knox more bc assuming Ques stays we already have someone who w a full healthy offseason should be a monster but i fell in love w bamba's defense and energy plus he showed the ability to score very effectively tonight.

Potential Starting 5 w this roster:
Duval 6'3 elite facilitator/scorer true PG we've been missing (i really just have a bad feeling KU steals him from us but i truly hope i am wrong)
GA 6'4 Returns for healthy sr season avg's 20ppg
Luke Kennard 6'6 Has to improve defense, no drop off from sensational sophomore campaign, possibly even better jr year. Can he play the 3 slot is the ?!!!
Wendell "Lives up to the Hype" Carter 6'9 260lb man child. I'm projecting what we expected to see out of a healthy HG.
Mohamed "Mutombo Jr" Bamba 6'11 210 but w weight training i say he bulks up to 230 by season start. Ultimate rim protector, possibly think Nerlens Noel 2.0???

Bench:
Frankie Stones ACC 6th MOY 15ppg off bench
Marques "I'm Not perfect, but i will be awesome in my sophomore season" Bolden splits time w bamba 10 6 plus 2blks PG
Gary Trent Jr finds away to get minutes 10ppg
Javin reserves for WC avgs 10mpg

Flip scenarios
Duval
GA
Luke
Knox
WC
Marques... oh dangit we can only start 5

IDK you guys tell me... also if we don't land duval is Tremont Waters a legit option??

porkpa
03-30-2017, 07:01 AM
How terrible were the announcers - our Jason Williams and Corey Alexander?
Not only did they not call the game, instead concentrating on what could be best described as a bunch of unnecessary nonsense, they also kept speaking of Kevin Garnett as the first player to jump from high school to the pros.
Haven't these guys ever heard of two men named Moses Malone and Darryl Dawkins? Last I heard Moses is in the Basketball Hall of Fame and Chocolate Thunder was a pretty darn good player who made an impact.

arnie
03-30-2017, 07:14 AM
How terrible were the announcers - our Jason Williams and Corey Alexander?
Not only did they not call the game, instead concentrating on what could be best described as a bunch of unnecessary nonsense, they also kept speaking of Kevin Garnett as the first player to jump from high school to the pros.
Haven't these guys ever heard of two men named Moses Malone and Darryl Dawkins? Last I heard Moses is in the Basketball Hall of Fame and Chocolate Thunder was a pretty darn good player who made an impact.
Jay Williams continues to be an embarrassment to the announcer profession. Could only be worse if ESPN decides to put both Jays in booth at same time to see which one spews the most drivel in the shortest amount of time.

The game which I thought was unwatchable was better than having to listen to Jay and Corey.

dukefan_828
03-30-2017, 07:17 AM
How terrible were the announcers - our Jason Williams and Corey Alexander?
Not only did they not call the game, instead concentrating on what could be best described as a bunch of unnecessary nonsense, they also kept speaking of Kevin Garnett as the first player to jump from high school to the pros.
Haven't these guys ever heard of two men named Moses Malone and Darryl Dawkins? Last I heard Moses is in the Basketball Hall of Fame and Chocolate Thunder was a pretty darn good player who made an impact.

How about in the ACCT championship game when G and Brando kept going on and on about how it was the first time our Srs had played in a ACCT championship game, not won but played. I had to rewind several times to make sure i was hearing things correctly seeing as i was in attendance when we lost to Virginia in the final in 2013, and these guys get paid big bucks!! I actually wanted to be a sports commentator as a kid and maybe i will go back and work on a new degree because i think i could make it to the big leagues:cool: Watch out Jay Bias i mean Bilas and Seth Greenturd.. typo Greenberg!!!

Saratoga2
03-30-2017, 07:33 AM
Ok so if you could choose for duke to land only 2 out of our last 3 big targets (duval,bamba,knox) which combo would you choose and why?? Obviously in a perfect world (our recruiting lately has actually been almost close to that) we land all 3 but i just thought it would be fun to hear some opinions.

My choice: Duval, no brainer. And.... Bamba?? I'm really not sure. One could argue we need knox more bc assuming Ques stays we already have someone who w a full healthy offseason should be a monster but i fell in love w bamba's defense and energy plus he showed the ability to score very effectively tonight.

Potential Starting 5 w this roster:
Duval 6'3 elite facilitator/scorer true PG we've been missing (i really just have a bad feeling KU steals him from us but i truly hope i am wrong)
GA 6'4 Returns for healthy sr season avg's 20ppg
Luke Kennard 6'6 Has to improve defense, no drop off from sensational sophomore campaign, possibly even better jr year. Can he play the 3 slot is the ?!!!
Wendell "Lives up to the Hype" Carter 6'9 260lb man child. I'm projecting what we expected to see out of a healthy HG.
Mohamed "Mutombo Jr" Bamba 6'11 210 but w weight training i say he bulks up to 230 by season start. Ultimate rim protector, possibly think Nerlens Noel 2.0???

Bench:
Frankie Stones ACC 6th MOY 15ppg off bench
Marques "I'm Not perfect, but i will be awesome in my sophomore season" Bolden splits time w bamba 10 6 plus 2blks PG
Gary Trent Jr finds away to get minutes 10ppg
Javin reserves for WC avgs 10mpg

Flip scenarios
Duval
GA
Luke
Knox
WC
Marques... oh dangit we can only start 5

IDK you guys tell me... also if we don't land duval is Tremont Waters a legit option??

I think that WC will have trouble getting over 25 minutes. His weight and the propensity of freshmen to foul will probably put a limit on him in that range. Having Bolden would shore up the inside but a question mark remains there. Having Bamba would really shore us up inside, so he is important. If not, we have a 6'9' 220 pound athlete in DeLaurier who is bound to have improved. Any of these scenarios gives us a solid front court.

I think it is pretty clear that we really need a PG and Duval is the best out there. So without him we go with an improved Jackson who I assume won't go to the NBA. If not, Jackson becomes a very athletic and tough off guard as Quinn was when we won.

Unlike others, i expect Luke to go to the draft. Hope not but his position in the mock draft makes that somewhat likely. If Luke doesn't return Knox becomes more important. Grayson is a harder read, since his position in the draft has changed due to his many injuries this past season. If he goes, Trent moves up to be a very important asset at SG.

So many combinations and unknowns at this point but we have some excellent possibilities. Duval and Bama is a good choice under one loss scenario, where Duval and Trent is a good choice under a different loss scenario.

Haven's seen Waters play but he is a similar size to Mason from Kansas this year and he could do the job at a very high level.

Spanarkel
03-30-2017, 07:53 AM
Collin Sexton is an awful lot of fun. He's the kind of quick guard I wish we had on our roster more often.

Anthony Weiner's favorite player and role model

bluedev_92
03-30-2017, 09:08 AM
From the DBR linked article: Alexander’s take: At one point in the game, five Duke recruits were on the floor at the same time – four on the same team. The players, Carter, Bamba, Duval and Knox, played well together in the last few minutes.
Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/article141605949.html#storylink=cpy

The possibility of these guys all being on the floor for Duke is definitely something to get excited about. We can't do anything about being out of the tourney at this point, but we certainly can look forward to next season. Go DUKE!!

richardjackson199
03-30-2017, 09:24 AM
The Duke targets/recruits not only looked good, they had great chemistry with each other (especially given lack of experience playing together). Carter seemed happy to assist to Bamba almost every time he got the ball in the post. Duval also looked for Bamba.

I REALLY hope we get Bamba. It sounds like a long shot. But I think that guy will be the best player in this class. He may be raw offensively now, but he isn't that raw. He is a nightmare rim-protector, has good instincts around the basket, and is a future NBA all-star IMO. (ok, my eye test scouting opinions are not even worth 2 cents).

Knox, Duval, Carter, and Trent are also the real deal. We targetted well in this class. If we get/keep everyone we're after - we could be insanely good. Unlikely, maybe, but a guy can dream. (And I was never saying that about this year's team, who I thought actually developed nicely and ran into a buzz-saw in SC.) If next year's group has Duval pg, rim protectors Bamba and soph Bolden, and the others we would be sick. That team could not only score lights out and break down defenses, they could defend at a very high level if they learn the system. Bamba is a smart talker on defense and could be the ultimate anchor.

Back to reality. I realize Bamba and Bolden are likely mutually exclusive. Bamba to Duke seems like a long shot. Kennard and/or Allen will be gone and we could have the youngest team ever. But for now - it's fun to dream and stay optimistic!

Troublemaker
03-30-2017, 10:37 AM
Duval, Trent, Knox, Carter, Bamba.

Is it really possible that they could all end up on the same team?

It's within the realm of possibility but should be considered unlikely to go 3-for-3 in recruiting the uncommitted, despite my joking about it upthread.

As for the game last night, I agree with others that Duval and Trent didn't show their best stuff. Bamba, Carter, and Knox looked impressive, though. None of it is all that meaningful, of course. Just getting named a starter is probably the biggest accomplishment because that means you performed well in practice (which probably has more structure than the game) and earned the trust of the coaches. Both Dukies and the 3 potential Dukies were starters.

kAzE
03-30-2017, 10:39 AM
Didn't get to watch the whole game, but saw most of the first half. The East team was dominating early and looked like they would run away with it, but they must have been really sloppy with the ball in the 2nd half. UK's Quade green finished with 7 TOs by himself, while Duval had 4. However, Duval looked pretty good from what I saw of him, he's got very good quickness and was able to get to where he wanted to be.

Knox looked fantastic, I think he's going to be better than people think. He's a really fluid athlete and is pretty skilled. Definitely reminds me of Jayson a little. I hope we get him, he looks like a difference maker with his versatility on D, where he looks like he could defend out on the perimeter as well as in the paint.

Volunteer Duke
03-30-2017, 10:49 AM
Duval, Trent, Knox, Carter, Bamba.

Is it really possible that they could all end up on the same team?

Would that be a better 5 than the original Fab 5 as an incoming class?

I'm not saying anything about how good the team would be. Of course, we know the original didn't win a Natty, but they were very good.

VERY possible. I think likely.

Yes, it would be better.

Volunteer Duke
03-30-2017, 10:51 AM
The Duke targets/recruits not only looked good, they had great chemistry with each other (especially given lack of experience playing together). Carter seemed happy to assist to Bamba almost every time he got the ball in the post. Duval also looked for Bamba.

I REALLY hope we get Bamba. It sounds like a long shot. But I think that guy will be the best player in this class. He may be raw offensively now, but he isn't that raw. He is a nightmare rim-protector, has good instincts around the basket, and is a future NBA all-star IMO. (ok, my eye test scouting opinions are not even worth 2 cents).

Knox, Duval, Carter, and Trent are also the real deal. We targetted well in this class. If we get/keep everyone we're after - we could be insanely good. Unlikely, maybe, but a guy can dream. (And I was never saying that about this year's team, who I thought actually developed nicely and ran into a buzz-saw in SC.) If next year's group has Duval pg, rim protectors Bamba and soph Bolden, and the others we would be sick. That team could not only score lights out and break down defenses, they could defend at a very high level if they learn the system. Bamba is a smart talker on defense and could be the ultimate anchor.

Back to reality. I realize Bamba and Bolden are likely mutually exclusive. Bamba to Duke seems like a long shot. Kennard and/or Allen will be gone and we could have the youngest team ever. But for now - it's fun to dream and stay optimistic!

Not sure why everyone keeps saying Bamba is a longshot. We are right in the thick of it and I think he will be here next year based on the things I know.

kAzE
03-30-2017, 11:03 AM
Yes, it would be better.

Come on . . . this is just silly. Nobody in this class is remotely close to as good as Chris Webber was. I'm betting you weren't around when the Fab 5 got to 2 final fours. And that was back when NBA players were sticking around for 4 years in college. The 2018 class overall looks much less talented than the class of 2017. Bamba, Porter, and Duval are pretty good, but nobody else in this class would go in the top 7 of this year's draft IMO. Ball and Fultz would still be #1 and #2.


I think he will be here next year based on the things I know.

Would love to know your sources . . .

CDu
03-30-2017, 11:13 AM
Come on . . . this is just silly. Nobody in this class is remotely close to as good as Chris Webber was. I'm betting you weren't around when the Fab 5 got to 2 final fours. And that was back when NBA players were sticking around for 4 years in college. Overall, the 2018 class overall looks much less talented than the class of 2017. Bamba, Porter, and Duval are pretty good, but nobody else in this class would go in the top 7 of this year's draft IMO. Ball and Fultz would still be #1 and #2.



Would love to know your sources . . .

Hahaha! Yeah, I always love statements like "based on what I know" coming from random folks on a message board.

English
03-30-2017, 11:33 AM
Come on . . . this is just silly. Nobody in this class is remotely close to as good as Chris Webber was. I'm betting you weren't around when the Fab 5 got to 2 final fours. And that was back when NBA players were sticking around for 4 years in college. The 2018 class overall looks much less talented than the class of 2017. Bamba, Porter, and Duval are pretty good, but nobody else in this class would go in the top 7 of this year's draft IMO. Ball and Fultz would still be #1 and #2.

I certainly don't want to dissuade you from continuing to refute the crazy definitive statements that are flying, but the original question (from my read) was specific to recruiting:

"Would that be a better 5 than the original Fab 5 as an incoming class?

I'm not saying anything about how good the team would be."

By recruiting rank, which is all we have to go on for the class of 2017, it would be better ranked than the original Fab Five was ranked in its respective class. The team would almost certainly not go to two straight championship games, however, and not least because nearly all of these kids will be headed to the NBA Draft.

This is all an exercise because we all know comparing players and classes across years (and decades) is pretty fruitless. Then again, it is the offseason and everything involving recruiting threads is essentially a fruitless exercise anyhow.

kAzE
03-30-2017, 11:41 AM
I certainly don't want to dissuade you from continuing to refute the crazy definitive statements that are flying, but the original question (from my read) was specific to recruiting:

"Would that be a better 5 than the original Fab 5 as an incoming class?

I'm not saying anything about how good the team would be."

By recruiting rank, which is all we have to go on for the class of 2017, it would be better ranked than the original Fab Five was ranked in its respective class. The team would almost certainly not go to two straight championship games, however, and not least because nearly all of these kids will be headed to the NBA Draft.

This is all an exercise because we all know comparing players and classes across years (and decades) is pretty fruitless. Then again, it is the offseason and everything involving recruiting threads is essentially a fruitless exercise anyhow.

Yeah, I never said they absolutely couldn't be better than the Fab 5. The point is, we have no idea how good they will be. But one thing I do know for sure is that nobody in this class is even close to as good as Chris Webber. That dude was unbelievably talented. Arguably one of the top 5 most talented people to ever play basketball. Based on that alone, it would very difficult for any 5 man recruiting class to ever eclipse the Fab 5. You would basically need the next LeBron and at least 3 more top 10 talents in a stacked recruiting class. (Ray Jackson was #84)

None of these 2018 kids strikes me as a prodigy. There's nobody resembling LeBron, Webber, Garnett, or Kobe.

AtlDuke72
03-30-2017, 12:03 PM
Yeah, I never said they absolutely couldn't be better than the Fab 5. The point is, we have no idea how good they will be. But one thing I do know for sure is that nobody in this class is even close to as good as Chris Webber. That dude was unbelievably talented. Arguably one of the top 5 most talented people to ever play basketball. Based on that alone, it would very difficult for any 5 man recruiting class to ever eclipse the Fab 5. You would basically need the next LeBron and at least 3 more top 10 talents in a stacked recruiting class. (Ray Jackson was #84)

None of these 2018 kids strikes me as a prodigy. There's nobody resembling LeBron, Webber, Garnett, or Kobe.

Since it is still March and no games for a long time, I think it is safe to say that the 5 the Devils are going to have will not only go to two Final Fours, they will win two Final Fours. No way they lose with those 5 guys, Allen, Kennard and Jackson also on the team. In fact, they should play in the NBA.

CDu
03-30-2017, 12:05 PM
Yeah, I never said they absolutely couldn't be better than the Fab 5. The point is, we have no idea how good they will be. But one thing I do know for sure is that nobody in this class is even close to as good as Chris Webber. That dude was unbelievably talented. Arguably one of the top 5 most talented people to ever play basketball. Based on that alone, it would very difficult for any 5 man recruiting class to ever eclipse the Fab 5. You would basically need the next LeBron and at least 3 more top 10 talents in a stacked recruiting class. (Ray Jackson was #84)

None of these 2018 kids strikes me as a prodigy. There's nobody resembling LeBron, Webber, Garnett, or Kobe.

Yeah, that 1991 Michigan recruiting class included one future Hall of Fame caliber player (Webber), two future 20-ppg NBA scorers (Howard and Rose), a future NBA cup-of-coffee guy (King), and a top-100 recruit (Jackson). They also paired with another future cup-of-coffee NBAer (Riley) on those two title-game runs.

It would be VERY unlikely for any college recruiting class to produce as much as that class did. The UK class with Wall/Cousins/Bledsoe probably comes closest. But it is pretty darn rare.

AtlDuke72
03-30-2017, 12:06 PM
. . . nobody in this class is even close to as good as Chris Webber . . .

I don't agree. Plus I heard interviews with all of them and I am certain that they will be able to keep track of the time outs.

bluedev_92
03-30-2017, 12:12 PM
:)
Yeah, I never said they absolutely couldn't be better than the Fab 5. The point is, we have no idea how good they will be. But one thing I do know for sure is that nobody in this class is even close to as good as Chris Webber. That dude was unbelievably talented. Arguably one of the top 5 most talented people to ever play basketball. Based on that alone, it would very difficult for any 5 man recruiting class to ever eclipse the Fab 5. You would basically need the next LeBron and at least 3 more top 10 talents in a stacked recruiting class. (Ray Jackson was #84)

None of these 2018 kids strikes me as a prodigy. There's nobody resembling LeBron, Webber, Garnett, or Kobe.

That's quite a statement - did you forget a zero after the 5?:)

kAzE
03-30-2017, 12:12 PM
I heard interviews with all of them and I am certain that they will be able to keep track of the time outs.

You sure about that? Nick Richards can't even spell BBN:

7306

Old Gold 89
03-30-2017, 12:13 PM
Every year I look forward to the McDonald's AA game, and every year I feel like a fool for watching it. Although the defense in the game seems to have improved, it still sucks. No, Collin Sexton, we don't want to see "a show". We want to see basketball. We are basketball fans. Remember "basketball"? We like to watch that.

As for the announcers, as many have pointed out, they were absolutely horrendous. Please tell us about the game being televised! Tell us what they are doing!!

I honestly want to ask Jay Williams who he thinks his audience is. Casual fans? Serious fans? Teenagers? Other announcers? People from other countries? Former players? For minutes at a time during the game, they were talking about things that happened 30 years ago or the NBA or who knows what.

Jay Williams, you are turning into a clown.

Jay Bilas, on the other hand, is a professional. I respect the hell out of him. He comes to work every day, prepared. Great announcer, in my opinion.

kAzE
03-30-2017, 12:14 PM
:)

That's quite a statement - did you forget a zero after the 5?:)

Nope, just refer to any knowledgeable basketball historian. Webber was as talented as anyone. His career didn't turn out as well as it probably should have due to a number of factors (injuries, never being on the right team), but in terms of what he could do on a basketball court, he was good as anyone who has ever played.

CDu
03-30-2017, 12:20 PM
Every year I look forward to the McDonald's AA game, and every year I feel like a fool for watching it. Although the defense in the game seems to have improved, it still sucks. No, Collin Sexton, we don't want to see "a show". We want to see basketball. We are basketball fans. Remember "basketball"? We like to watch that.

As for the announcers, as many have pointed out, they were absolutely horrendous. Please tell us about the game being televised! Tell us what they are doing!!

I honestly want to ask Jay Williams who he thinks his audience is. Casual fans? Serious fans? Teenagers? Other announcers? People from other countries? Former players? For minutes at a time during the game, they were talking about things that happened 30 years ago or the NBA or who knows what.

Jay Williams, you are turning into a clown.

Jay Bilas, on the other hand, is a professional. I respect the hell out of him. He comes to work every day, prepared. Great announcer, in my opinion.

I disagree a bit here. It's an All-Star game, with no in-game implications. People who are watching are watching only because they are interested in the prospects, where those prospects will go to school, and how good they are. The game itself is just a meaningless exhibition, and guys are subbed out en masse every four minutes. So the announcers - knowing that the game is meaningless and is played as such for most of the game - talk about the prospects and how they will fit in with their soon-to-be teams (or how the undecided kids will come to their decisions).

If you went into the game looking for a serious basketball game, well, you were unequivocally going to be disappointed. Because that has never been the intent of the game.

As for Bilas, yes he is professional. And at one time, he was a terrific in-game analyst. But as he's gained in stature at ESPN (meaning more television responsibilities), he's become "cliche Jay", and is turning into the next Dick Vitale. He's now regularly spouting his agenda talking points, tossing out his cliche one-liners, and not doing a great job of covering the games.

I don't know if Williams is any good at being an in-game analyst, but I certianly wouldn't use his performance covering a meaningless exhibition of high school all-stars as a measuring stick.

Volunteer Duke
03-30-2017, 12:21 PM
Nobody in this class is remotely close to as good as Chris Webber was.

The aggregate talent is better.



Would love to know your sources . . .

No "sources." Just putting the pieces together from various articles, interviews, and general facts.

Bamba is a smart kid who made a 31 on his ACT and attended a sports analytics conference at MIT. He speaks glowingly of Coach K, Duke University, the network it provides, etc.

If he goes to Kentucky, I would be absolutely stunned. Stunned.

Bay Area Duke Fan
03-30-2017, 12:30 PM
Nope, just refer to any knowledgeable basketball historian. Webber was as talented as anyone. His career didn't turn out as well as it probably should have due to a number of factors (injuries, never being on the right team), but in terms of what he could do on a basketball court, he was good as anyone who has ever played.

He couldn't win a championship.

CDu
03-30-2017, 12:30 PM
The aggregate talent is better.




No "sources." Just putting the pieces together from various articles, interviews, and general facts.

Bamba is a smart kid who made a 31 on his ACT and attended a sports analytics conference at MIT. He speaks glowingly of Coach K, Duke University, the network it provides, etc.

If he goes to Kentucky, I would be absolutely stunned. Stunned.

He also knows he is only going to be in college for one year before going pro. And the potential courses he could take as a freshman - at pretty much any of the major D-1 schools - are not going to differ all that much in value. So pardon me if I think that is all a bit of lip service.

If academics was ultimately driving his decision, UK would not be on his list. That UK is heavily involved suggests to me that basketball - and not academic prestige - is priority #1.

Volunteer Duke
03-30-2017, 12:42 PM
He also knows he is only going to be in college for one year before going pro. And the potential courses he could take as a freshman - at pretty much any of the major D-1 schools - are not going to differ all that much in value. So pardon me if I think that is all a bit of lip service.

If academics was ultimately driving his decision, UK would not be on his list. That UK is heavily involved suggests to me that basketball - and not academic prestige - is priority #1.

Academics is not the sole factor. He wants the best of both worlds. Duke provides the best university, the best network, and the best coach at one of the top programs in the country.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
03-30-2017, 12:50 PM
Nope, just refer to any knowledgeable basketball historian. Webber was as talented as anyone. His career didn't turn out as well as it probably should have due to a number of factors (injuries, never being on the right team), but in terms of what he could do on a basketball court, he was good as anyone who has ever played.

I am all about encouraging outlandish claims here, but top 5 baller all time is pretty insane.

Just because I am curious... who are the other four?

Atlanta Duke
03-30-2017, 12:51 PM
Bamba is an impressive young man. I loved his interview where he said his relationship with his future coach is important to him. He comes across as a very intelligent young man, and he was cheering for his teammates during the interview. JWill said that in practice, not only was he a rim protector, but talks to the guards, telling them where the picks are being set and that is extremely helpful. He seems really special.

Seems like it - this from an article in The Ringer on the changing role of big men as teams spread the floor

Mohamed Bamba, an impossibly long and mobile near-7-footer with a 7-foot-8 wingspan, booked his own flight to the Sloan Sports Conference this season and asked Rockets GM Daryl Morey a question about pick-and-roll defense.

https://theringer.com/we-saw-the-future-of-basketball-and-in-it-everyone-looks-like-a-unicorn-7c705d2aeeff

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
03-30-2017, 12:52 PM
He also knows he is only going to be in college for one year before going pro. And the potential courses he could take as a freshman - at pretty much any of the major D-1 schools - are not going to differ all that much in value. So pardon me if I think that is all a bit of lip service.

If academics was ultimately driving his decision, UK would not be on his list. That UK is heavily involved suggests to me that basketball - and not academic prestige - is priority #1.

I am with you. A four year guy might be sincerely interested in academic programs, professors, and class size, but I have a hard time believing that someone signing up for one semester of school will put much weight into who teaches freshman comp.

FadedTackyShirt
03-30-2017, 12:53 PM
If academics was ultimately driving his decision, UK would not be on his list. That UK is heavily involved suggests to me that basketball - and not academic prestige - is priority #1.

By all accounts, both Carter and Bamba are bright and thoughtful, but their (initial) career aspiration is pro basketball. Both reportedly considered Harvard, but Bamba isn't suddenly going to become an idiot if he chooses UK over Duke. Firmly believe Duke is the best academic/hoops combo in D-1 (~350 schools), but Bamba is more than qualified to make an informed decision about the best opportunity for his own future.

CDu
03-30-2017, 12:59 PM
By all accounts, both Carter and Bamba are bright and thoughtful, but their (initial) career aspiration is pro basketball. Both reportedly considered Harvard, but Bamba isn't suddenly going to become an idiot if he chooses UK over Duke. Firmly believe Duke is the best academic/hoops combo in D-1 (~350 schools), but Bamba is more than qualified to make an informed decision about the best opportunity for his own future.


I am with you. A four year guy might be sincerely interested in academic programs, professors, and class size, but I have a hard time believing that someone signing up for one semester of school will put much weight into who teaches freshman comp.

Exactly. Look, I'm definitely not trying to suggest that Bamba isn't smart (by all indications he is), or that education isn't important to him. But he is ultimately only spending 9-12 months on campus, and will be taking freshman-level courses at whichever institution he attends. Short of osmosis, he's not going to get the benefit of the difference in academics between Duke or UK. And I'm quite sure he knows that.

The fact that UK is high on his list suggests to me that he realizes that the most important thing for his future is to go to an elite basketball program. Both Duke and UK offer that, in varying ways. He may ultimately choose Duke, but I doubt it will be because of the academics. It will be because of the fit with Coach K and the team/players around him. Same thing if he chooses UK.

kAzE
03-30-2017, 01:03 PM
I am all about encouraging outlandish claims here, but top 5 baller all time is pretty insane.

Just because I am curious... who are the other four?

Never said he was a "top 5 baller." I said "arguably a top 5 talent."

There's a big difference in those 2 statements. All I'm saying is that you could probably count on 1 hand the number of guys in basketball history with Webber's combination of size, athleticism, speed/quickness, ball handling, passing, court vision, scoring ability, rebounding, and defense. He was absolutely a basketball prodigy, because he could do it all.

Harry Giles was arguably the #1 player in his class. He's probably STILL the most talented player in the class of 2017. But talent doesn't always equate to a great career or winning championships. There's too many other factors. You could be the #1 talent of all time, but also have a totally crap work ethic and go out partying all the time and squander that talent. Or maybe you just don't give a crap about defense (Carmelo Anthony), or maybe you're just a really difficult personality and totally uncoachable. Maybe you had a career ending injury. The greatest players of all time had the talent, but also had the work ethic, the right attitude, and lots of luck being on the right team, having the right coaches, and avoiding injuries. Webber had the talent, but not necessarily the rest of those things.

But even with that said, if Webber doesn't blow out his knee in 2003, and that Sacramento Kings team wins the championship (they were the favorite to win it all that year), I think his career is viewed in a very different light.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
03-30-2017, 01:07 PM
Never said he was a "top 5 baller." I said "arguably a top 5 talent."

There's a big difference in those 2 statements. All I'm saying is that you could probably count on 1 hand the number of guys with Webber's combination of size, athleticism, ball handling, passing, court vision, rebounding, and defense. He was absolutely a basketball prodigy, because he could do it all.

Harry Giles was arguably the #1 player in his class. He's probably STILL the most talented player in the class of 2017. Talent doesn't always equate to a great career or winning championships.

Well,you said "top 5 talents to ever play basketball." I am just asking who your other four are, because I feel pretty sure I could rattle off a few dozen players who I think had more talent.

I really wasn't trying to start a fist-fight, I am just really surprised by that assertion.

BandAlum83
03-30-2017, 01:12 PM
Yeah, I never said they absolutely couldn't be better than the Fab 5. The point is, we have no idea how good they will be. But one thing I do know for sure is that nobody in this class is even close to as good as Chris Webber. That dude was unbelievably talented. Arguably one of the top 5 most talented people to ever play basketball. Based on that alone, it would very difficult for any 5 man recruiting class to ever eclipse the Fab 5. You would basically need the next LeBron and at least 3 more top 10 talents in a stacked recruiting class. (Ray Jackson was #84)

None of these 2018 kids strikes me as a prodigy. There's nobody resembling LeBron, Webber, Garnett, or Kobe.

So let's look at it this way. Based on a graphic during the game last night, the 5 players in question are currently ranked 3,4,5,6, 8 on the ESPN top 100.

So based on that, and not ranking classes relative to other years, has any school come close to that in recruiting success in one year?

Volunteer Duke
03-30-2017, 01:16 PM
Found this on Twitter:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8LfeOYUwAAd9mi.jpg:large

CDu
03-30-2017, 01:18 PM
Well,you said "top 5 talents to ever play basketball." I am just asking who your other four are, because I feel pretty sure I could rattle off a few dozen players who I think had more talent.

I really wasn't trying to start a fist-fight, I am just really surprised by that assertion.

Yeah, I think that may have been a bit of hyperbole. But I don't know that it was TOO far off.

Off the top of my head, Chamberlain and Abdul-Jabbar have to be on any short list of most talented ever, given their size/athleticism/skill combination. LeBron James as well. Magic Johnson probably needs to be in the discussion. After that, it gets really tricky. Guys like Jordan, Durant, Robertson, Thompson, Ewing, Olajuwon, Sampson, Maravich, Walton, etc. probably deserve consideration as day-one talents. I'm not sure I'd put Webber clearly ahead of any of those guys.

Now, if you want to say "in the same discussion as those guys? Sure. Webber had an unbelievable combination of size, athleticism, and skill. And for a stretch in his mid-to-late-20s, he was realizing that other-worldly talent (his Sacramento years were absurdly good). He just had the misfortune of playing in the wrong conference at the wrong time (Shaq's dominance paired with Kobe's ascendance). And then he broke down physically in his late-20s, which robbed him of chances at a title and about half of the prime of his career.

Olympic Fan
03-30-2017, 01:24 PM
Well,you said "top 5 talents to ever play basketball." I am just asking who your other four are, because I feel pretty sure I could rattle off a few dozen players who I think had more talent.

I really wasn't trying to start a fist-fight, I am just really surprised by that assertion.

1. Bill Russell
2. Michael Jordan
3. Wilt Chamberlain
4. Oscar Robertson
5. LeBron James
6. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
7. David Thompson
8. Bill Walton
9. Kobe Bryant
10. Julius Erving


That's off the top of my head and while we can argue about the order, I'd rate any of them greater (and more talented) that Webber. I can give you another couple of dozen before I'd get to Webber.

He was a great player, but as suggested, more like a top 50 talent than a top five talent.

That said, watching the game last night (which was awful ... especially the announcers), and I liked what I saw of Bamba and Duval. I also liked a lot of Carter's game -- there was one sequence in the second half where the West tried to isolate him on Billy Preston, a smaller, quicker forward. Carter defended him so well that Preston had to puck up his dribble and give up the ball to a guard ... and Carter switched to him and frustrated him. It was a great (if short) defensive display.

I was less impressed by Kevin Knox's game. He hit some shots but was weak on the boards and didn't seem to handle well. Of course, over the years, I have learned not to put too much stock in a couple of all-star games. I'm looking forward to the Hoop Summit, which is always a better GAME.

PS I was also not that impressed by Michael Porter. He scored points, but took a LOT of shots. He was black hole on offense -- of course, that happens a lot in all-star games. But it made me wonder -- he's supposed to be trying to recruit Kevin Knox to Missouri. Can you see the two of them coexisting on the floor?

kAzE
03-30-2017, 01:26 PM
Yeah, I think that may have been a bit of hyperbole. But I don't know that it was TOO far off.

Off the top of my head, Chamberlain and Abdul-Jabbar have to be on any short list of most talented ever, given their size/athleticism/skill combination. LeBron James as well. Magic Johnson probably needs to be in the discussion. After that, it gets really tricky. Guys like Jordan, Durant, Robertson, Thompson, Ewing, Olajuwon, Sampson, Maravich, Walton, etc. probably deserve consideration as day-one talents. I'm not sure I'd put Webber clearly ahead of any of those guys.

Now, if you want to say "in the same discussion as those guys? Sure. Webber had an unbelievable combination of size, athleticism, and skill. And for a stretch in his mid-to-late-20s, he was realizing that other-worldly talent (his Sacramento years were absurdly good). He just had the misfortune of playing in the wrong conference at the wrong time (Shaq's dominance paired with Kobe's ascendance). And then he broke down physically in his late-20s, which robbed him of chances at a title and about half of the prime of his career.

I don't think it was hyperbole at all. He also misquoted me. The direct quote was "Arguably one of the top 5 most talented people to ever play basketball." Which means, he's not necessarily in the top 5, just that you could make a case for it.

Let's step back a second here. What's the definition of "talent"? In the most basic terms, it's natural aptitude or skill. God-given ability. That's all. Not championships, not anything else. That's it. Your natural ability to play basketball. In that respect, you absolutely argue that Webber was top 5.

Then consider this:


But talent doesn't always equate to a great career or winning championships. There's too many other factors. You could be the #1 talent of all time, but also have a totally crap work ethic and go out partying all the time and squander that talent. Or maybe you just don't give a crap about defense (Carmelo Anthony), or maybe you're just a really difficult personality and totally uncoachable (Boogie Cousins). Maybe you had a career ending injury. The greatest players of all time had the talent, but also had the work ethic, the right attitude, and lots of luck being on the right team, having the right coaches, and avoiding injuries. Webber had the talent, but not necessarily the rest of those things.

Talent is talent. But you need a ton of other things to be great.

Old Gold 89
03-30-2017, 01:40 PM
I disagree a bit here. It's an All-Star game, with no in-game implications. People who are watching are watching only because they are interested in the prospects, where those prospects will go to school, and how good they are. The game itself is just a meaningless exhibition, and guys are subbed out en masse every four minutes. So the announcers - knowing that the game is meaningless and is played as such for most of the game - talk about the prospects and how they will fit in with their soon-to-be teams (or how the undecided kids will come to their decisions).

If you went into the game looking for a serious basketball game, well, you were unequivocally going to be disappointed. Because that has never been the intent of the game.

As for Bilas, yes he is professional. And at one time, he was a terrific in-game analyst. But as he's gained in stature at ESPN (meaning more television responsibilities), he's become "cliche Jay", and is turning into the next Dick Vitale. He's now regularly spouting his agenda talking points, tossing out his cliche one-liners, and not doing a great job of covering the games.

I don't know if Williams is any good at being an in-game analyst, but I certianly wouldn't use his performance covering a meaningless exhibition of high school all-stars as a measuring stick.

Yeah, I'm looking for a serious basketball game because I'm a serious basketball fan. I don't care what game I'm watching, I want serious, no-BS basketball. For example, when I watch my nephews play, I want to watch a serious game in which the kids play hard and play tough. I never, ever want to watch people screwing around (except for the Harlem Globetrotters).

The announcing sucks because the announcers think we don't care about what is actually happening on the court. They contribute to the nonsense. CDu, the matrix has you. It would be way more interesting if the announcers just:

1. Identified who was in the game.
2. Highlighted the players' strengths when demonstrated during the game. "Look, Porter, gets his shot off so effortlessly. He has a rare combination of quickness and size. Never seems to be in a hurry."
3. Highlighted when players were being selfish. "That's the third time Sexton has brought the ball down the court and shot without passing."
4. Identified the differences between the teams: "The West has more perimeter shooting."

Now, I'm not saying that they should never digress, but those digressions should be artfully woven into a discussion of the game action. Instead, we get stuck with game action woven into digressions: "Yes, so I ran into John Calipari last week after the game ... (looks like the West has gone on a 15 point run) ... and he was teasing me about the brutal recruiting schedule that most coaches endure."

Maybe it's a difficult assignment. So what.

Kedsy
03-30-2017, 01:49 PM
So let's look at it this way. Based on a graphic during the game last night, the 5 players in question are currently ranked 3,4,5,6, 8 on the ESPN top 100.

So based on that, and not ranking classes relative to other years, has any school come close to that in recruiting success in one year?

According to Summer RSCI, those five recruits are ranked: 3, 4, 5, 9, and 11.

Some recent Duke classes:

2016: 2, 3, 11, 13, 35
2015: 4, 13, 14, 21 (Kennard)
2014: 1, 7, 13, 24 (G Allen)

Some recent Kentucky classes:

2016: 6, 8, 9, 13, 21
2014: 5, 12, 18 (Ulis), 23 (Booker)
2013: 2, 5, 6, 9, 18
2012: 2, 8, 10, 38 (Cauley-Stein)
2011: 1, 3, 7, 19
2010: 4, 7, 11, 26, 50
2009: 2, 3, 19, 52 (Bledsoe), 64

And this is just in the past decade. So, looking at the top four recruits, lots of teams have come close. For five recruits, 2013 Kentucky came pretty close but perhaps not quite there. Again, though, this is just the past nine years, and there are probably seven recruiting classes that rival your hypothetical haul (at least through four players). Also, that 2013 UK class went on to become an 8-seed, though the team did make an unlikely run to the NCAA finals.

AtlDuke72
03-30-2017, 01:53 PM
The fact that UK is high on his list suggests to me that he realizes that the most important thing for his future is to go to an elite basketball program. Both Duke and UK offer that, in varying ways. He may ultimately choose Duke, but I doubt it will be because of the academics. It will be because of the fit with Coach K and the team/players around him. Same thing if he chooses UK.

All good points. One thing that seems to weigh heavily in Duke's favor could be Bamba's relationship with Carter. They roomed together this week which is a good sign. During the game it seemed that they really played well together with Carter feeding Bamba several times when Carter could have taken the shot himself. I really don't think that Bamba should be worried about Bolden based on how Bolden played this year. Like most of us, however, we really don't know what these guys are thinking. I am optimistic that he will come to Duke. Hopefully Duval will see the lineup he could be playing with next year and get on board. I have no idea about Knox, but expect that he would want to know what Kennard and Allen are going to do before he would commit to Duke. Getting them all is probably a pipe dream but isn't that what message boards are for?

kAzE
03-30-2017, 02:03 PM
Talent is talent. But you need a ton of other things to be great.

And just to add to this: Yes, I do think Webber had one of the most disappointing NBA careers of all time (maybe THE most disappointing career), based on his level of talent. A lot of things went wrong for him, some his own fault, and some not. He should have been one of the best ever. Instead, he's probably just barely a top 75 player of all time.

budwom
03-30-2017, 02:10 PM
To his credit, Bamba has released very little real info on his thought process, other than some general thoughts on each school, all of which are positive.
I wouldn't be stunned if he chose any of his finalists.

CDu
03-30-2017, 02:10 PM
According to Summer RSCI, those five recruits are ranked: 3, 4, 5, 9, and 11.

Some recent Duke classes:

2016: 2, 3, 11, 13, 35
2015: 4, 13, 14, 21 (Kennard)
2014: 1, 7, 13, 24 (G Allen)

Some recent Kentucky classes:

2016: 6, 8, 9, 13, 21
2014: 5, 12, 18 (Ulis), 23 (Booker)
2013: 2, 5, 6, 9, 18
2012: 2, 8, 10, 38 (Cauley-Stein)
2011: 1, 3, 7, 19
2010: 4, 7, 11, 26, 50
2009: 2, 3, 19, 52 (Bledsoe), 64

And this is just in the past decade. So, looking at the top four recruits, lots of teams have come close. For five recruits, 2013 Kentucky came pretty close but perhaps not quite there. Again, though, this is just the past nine years, and there are probably seven recruiting classes that rival your hypothetical haul (at least through four players). Also, that 2013 UK class went on to become an 8-seed, though the team did make an unlikely run to the NCAA finals.

It is worth noting that not all recruiting classes are created equal. The 2013 class turned out to be VERY top-heavy, and downright weak at guard. Wiggins, Parker, Randle, and Gordon were studs. Embiid turned out to be surprisingly good as a late bloomer. But on the whole, the class turned out to not be that great after the top 4 or 5 guys. The Harrison twins (#5 and #6 in the class), Dakari Johnson (#9), and Marcus Lee (#18) were quite disappointing. But in general, it turned out to be a bit of a "meh" class after the first 4 or 5 big names.

I think the 2009 (Wall, Cousins, Bledsoe), 2010 (Lamb, Jones, Knight, Kanter), and 2011 (Davis, Kidd-Gilchrist, Teague, Wiltjer) classes were ultimately better classes.

The 2013 class definitely should serve as warning about recruiting rankings though.

-bdbd
03-30-2017, 06:05 PM
FYI, here is the Bleacher Report "report card" on how each player performed in the AA game last night:


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2700720-2017-mcdonalds-all-american-game-report-card-for-every-player


'hope Bamba sees the value of teaming up with a fellow-front court power in Carter... There are comments on each. But they clearly loved Bamba and Carter.


The grades:

Bamba = A

Carter = A

Knox = A-

Duval = B (good things, but they disliked his four turnovers and 0-3 from downtown)

Trent = C (a victim of a poor shooting night, 3/11)

mr. synellinden
03-30-2017, 06:38 PM
FYI, here is the Bleacher Report "report card" on how each player performed in the AA game last night:


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2700720-2017-mcdonalds-all-american-game-report-card-for-every-player


'hope Bamba sees the value of teaming up with a fellow-front court power in Carter... There are comments on each. But they clearly loved Bamba and Carter.


The grades:

Bamba = A

Carter = A

Knox = A-

Duval = B (good things, but they disliked his four turnovers and 0-3 from downtown)

Trent = C (a victim of a poor shooting night, 3/11)

Hmm ... we know a certain head coach loves the idea of report cards.:rolleyes:

pfrduke
03-30-2017, 06:48 PM
Last night during the broadcast, the crew (particularly Cory Alexander) kept repeating the view that, while this year's freshman class was replete with one-and-done talent, this incoming class doesn't profile out the same way. Is that right? I had been under the impression that the top 10 recruits were all likely one-and-done. Maybe just stopping at 10 is enough to make it markedly lower than this year, but 10 doesn't seem like such a small number to warrant mention as a class that doesn't have much one-and-done talent.

Olympic Fan
03-30-2017, 06:58 PM
Last night during the broadcast, the crew (particularly Cory Alexander) kept repeating the view that, while this year's freshman class was replete with one-and-done talent, this incoming class doesn't profile out the same way. Is that right? I had been under the impression that the top 10 recruits were all likely one-and-done. Maybe just stopping at 10 is enough to make it markedly lower than this year, but 10 doesn't seem like such a small number to warrant mention as a class that doesn't have much one-and-done talent.

FWIW, the Draft Express mock draft for 2018 has 10 current high school players in the 2018 lottery including Duke's Wendell Carter (No 6) and Duke targets Bamba (No. 3), Duval (No. 7) and Knox (No. 12). They do not have Trent listed.

NBAdraft.net does include Trent and has 13 high school seniors in the 2018 draft.

I don't know who else heard the very awkward interview with Jarred Vanderbilt when the ESPN guy suggested he was a four-year guy and tried to get Vanderbilt to cornfirm that he was not a one-and-done guy. Ut was awkward, but Vanderbilt made it very clear that his goal is to be OAD.

I don't think this class has any less OADs than most classes.

sagegrouse
03-30-2017, 07:26 PM
I don't know who else heard the very awkward interview with Jarred Vanderbilt when the ESPN guy suggested he was a four-year guy and tried to get Vanderbilt to cornfirm that he was not a one-and-done guy. Ut was awkward, but Vanderbilt made it very clear that his goal is to be OAD.

I don't think this class has any less OADs than most classes.
I was sympathetic with the kid. He wants to be the best player in college next year -- who wouldn't? -- which would propel him to the top of the draft. That's different from saying, "I don't want to go to class, and -- oh, man! -- I am hoping I have a good pro option after one year."