PDA

View Full Version : Feinstein on Bobby Knight



JBDuke
03-23-2017, 10:03 PM
John Feinstein's latest column discusses Bobby Knight and his lonely retirement. Krzyzewski has a couple of prominent mentions:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/bob-knight-wants-the-last-word-on-everything-why-do-we-bother-listening/2017/03/22/5bb54894-0f06-11e7-9d5a-a83e627dc120_story.html?utm_term=.d6bef80e8c5f

Saratoga2
03-23-2017, 10:22 PM
John Feinstein's latest column discusses Bobby Knight and his lonely retirement. Krzyzewski has a couple of prominent mentions:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/bob-knight-wants-the-last-word-on-everything-why-do-we-bother-listening/2017/03/22/5bb54894-0f06-11e7-9d5a-a83e627dc120_story.html?utm_term=.d6bef80e8c5f

He was still the best in game color man on TV. Made Vitale look as terrible as he is so look at who is judging. TV execs that prefer Vitale over Knight.

rthomas
03-23-2017, 10:26 PM
He was still the best in game color man on TV. Made Vitale look as terrible as he is so look at who is judging. TV execs that prefer Vitale over Knight.

You have to be joking.

BigZ
03-23-2017, 10:33 PM
So he is an a-hole who cares

westwall
03-23-2017, 10:39 PM
You have to be joking.


No, No joke.The truth.

westwall
03-23-2017, 10:42 PM
So he is an a-hole who cares


Are you looking in a mirr. --- no, wait, I would be a --

sagegrouse
03-23-2017, 10:44 PM
Money quote:


After Knight retired from Texas Tech in midseason in 2008, he was hired with much fanfare by ESPN. The network wanted him to be a star. Knight wanted to be a star, too, but didn’t want to do the things TV analysts are asked to do: show up for production meetings; go to shoot-arounds; talk to coaches about their teams. It was beneath him. Bob Knight asking a coach for a few minutes of his time?

No way.

And so ESPN slowly moved him down the announcing ladder before finally giving up and firing him two years ago.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
03-23-2017, 10:47 PM
He was still the best in game color man on TV. Made Vitale look as terrible as he is so look at who is judging. TV execs that prefer Vitale over Knight.

I also thought he was great. I appreciated the no BS, straight analysis, X's and O's chatter.

brevity
03-23-2017, 10:53 PM
Based on the comments from that article, some people just don't understand why John Feinstein is so closely tied to Bobby Knight, and why Feinstein can't just ignore the guy. A Season on the Brink is a landmark work of sports nonfiction, certainly within the subgenre of college basketball.

I would be disappointed if Knight softened as a public figure, or returned to Bloomington earlier than desired (if desired). He has enemies there and he wants them to die. I don't fully identify with that feeling toward an employer or administration, but then I drive for about five minutes on any highway, and I completely understand. His consistency is refreshing.

FadedTackyShirt
03-23-2017, 10:56 PM
Not a fan of either Knight or Feinstein, but assumed Knight left ESPN because of early onset dementia. Has always been a loose cannon, but significantly more erratic in recent years. Would never wish dementia on anyone, so somewhat relieved he's just an ODB.

jwillfan
03-24-2017, 06:58 AM
There's probably video out there for someone with better search skills than I, but I remember he did segments "from the basement" where he broke down film and discussed it. One was about traveling and how it's rampant in the game and never called, and the first subject was...wait for it...Hansbrough! Showed and example of where the took many steps, shuffling his feet, and confirmed what we here had been saying. Hanstravel! For that I'll always have a soft spot for ol' Bobby.

Edit - here's the video! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRZSru9uJfc Shows in detail that he took 5 steps. He got away with that his entire career. Well that along with the academic fraud.

Spanarkel
03-24-2017, 07:10 AM
Based on the comments from that article, some people just don't understand why John Feinstein is so closely tied to Bobby Knight, and why Feinstein can't just ignore the guy. A Season on the Brink is a landmark work of sports nonfiction, certainly within the subgenre of college basketball.

I would be disappointed if Knight softened as a public figure, or returned to Bloomington earlier than desired (if desired). He has enemies there and he wants them to die. I don't fully identify with that feeling toward an employer or administration, but then I drive for about five minutes on any highway, and I completely understand. His consistency is refreshing.

Knight will be in Bloomington on March 30th, speaking at former Burger Boy's Sean May's high school(BHSN), but doubt he'll make it to the IU campus.

rthomas
03-24-2017, 08:10 AM
The only thing Knight was good for was his golf tip tv series. If you haven't seen it, look it up on google. They are hilarious.

Otherwise he was a self absorbed jack***. Hated being overshadowed by the GOAT. The only thing that helped him was Coach K's class.

Ima Facultiwyfe
03-24-2017, 08:27 AM
I also thought he was great. I appreciated the no BS, straight analysis, X's and O's chatter.

Hey! Won't we be looking for an announcer soon? Now wouldn't THAT be fun!?

Love, Ima

flyingdutchdevil
03-24-2017, 08:32 AM
The only thing Knight was good for was his golf tip tv series. If you haven't seen it, look it up on google. They are hilarious.

Otherwise he was a self absorbed jack***. Hated being overshadowed by the GOAT. The only thing that helped him was Coach K's class.

I assume you mean this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZD1vkzYmyI

It's pretty amazing.

And I agree - Bob Knight is a jack***. I still have no idea why people like him on this board. He's an embarrassment of epic proportions. His X's and O's is great, but everything else is rotten. Well, he does have an amazing coaching tree.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
03-24-2017, 08:45 AM
I assume you mean this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZD1vkzYmyI

It's pretty amazing.

And I agree - Bob Knight is a jack***. I still have no idea why people like him on this board. He's an embarrassment of epic proportions. His X's and O's is great, but everything else is rotten. Well, he does have an amazing coaching tree.

His is a curmudgeon and a jerk of the highest order. He also has an astonishing knowledge of the game of basketball. I would rather listen to him than a guy with "charisma" but zero to offer like, say, Vitale.

OldPhiKap
03-24-2017, 09:25 AM
Knight recommended K to Tom Butters back in the day. For that, I will always be grateful.

Knight was worth listening to when he called a game. He knows basketball and obviously was an incredibly successful coach.

Knight was entertaining in his press conferences, from afar.

Having said all of that, Knight's personal failings are hard to ignore and they unfortunately overshadow many of the things for which he would otherwise be lauded. I would be appalled if he represented my university, on whole.

Indoor66
03-24-2017, 09:34 AM
His is a curmudgeon and a jerk of the highest order. He also has an astonishing knowledge of the game of basketball. I would rather listen to him than a guy with "charisma" but zero to offer like, say, Vitale.

I like him because I, too, am a curmudgeon.😎

wsb3
03-24-2017, 01:29 PM
There was a time I often pulled for Indiana, especially in 87. Loved Steve Alford. Personally I think he would have 4 National Championships if not for the injury to Henderson in 93...when the dadgum Cheats won.

Knight was a great, great, coach. Maybe got more out of the talent he had than any coach ever. Did I hear or read once that he only had one player ever make an NBA All Star team?

But when he did the drive by handshake with Coach K after Duke beat them in 92.. I could no longer defend him.

There are people we all know in life that sadly can never let anything go..always have to have the last word...always have to be right...Sad way to live IMHO.

OldPhiKap
03-24-2017, 01:32 PM
There are people we all know in life that sadly can never let anything go..always have to have the last word...always have to be right...Sad way to live IMHO.

#Sad.

Olympic Fan
03-24-2017, 01:33 PM
Knight recommended K to Tom Butters back in the day. For that, I will always be grateful.


Not quite the story.

Butters called Knight and offered him the job -- knowing Knight would refuse. Then he asked for a recommendation.

The guy Knight recommended for us was a stiff named Bob Weltlich, who was at that time the head coach at Ole Miss.

It was only after Steve Vacendak convinced Butters to look at Krzyzewski at Army that Butters called Knight back and asked about the Army coach.

Knight did give K a strong recommendation at that point.

But always remember, it was Steve Vacendak who first put Duke into K. If Knight had his way, we would have been stuck with Weltlich.

devildeac
03-24-2017, 02:54 PM
Not quite the story.

Butters called Knight and offered him the job -- knowing Knight would refuse. Then he asked for a recommendation.

The guy Knight recommended for us was a stiff named Bob Weltlich, who was at that time the head coach at Ole Miss.

It was only after Steve Vacendak convinced Butters to look at Krzyzewski at Army that Butters called Knight back and asked about the Army coach.

Knight did give K a strong recommendation at that point.

But always remember, it was Steve Vacendak who first put Duke into K. If Knight had his way, we would have been stuck with Weltlich.

Which I believe was (paraphrasing), "K has all of my good qualities and none of my bad ones." (From A Season Is A Lifetime, IIRC)

Indoor66
03-24-2017, 03:17 PM
There are people we all know in life that sadly can never let anything go..always have to have the last word...always have to be right...Sad way to live IMHO.

Some of them post on this board.😍

DisplacedBlueDevil
03-26-2017, 04:42 PM
I had a first-hand experience with Coach Knight as a student at Michigan State.

I was at Jenison field house in East Lansing during the 79-80 season, when Isaiah Thomas and I were freshmen. My buddy & I walked over to the IU bench and sat in the first two seats where the coaches usually sit and waited to see how long until we got kicked out. We sat there for quite awhile, even after the Hoosiers were warming up. Finally, Coach came over and said, "Hey, fellas, you don't need to move yet" and let us sit there for several more minutes, my buddy and I looking at each other incredulously and waiting for the tirade. Just before tip, he smiled at us and said something like, "I'm afraid your time is up".

Just thought I'd share that.

Henderson
03-26-2017, 06:07 PM
Money quote:


After Knight retired from Texas Tech in midseason in 2008, he was hired with much fanfare by ESPN. The network wanted him to be a star. Knight wanted to be a star, too, but didn’t want to do the things TV analysts are asked to do: show up for production meetings; go to shoot-arounds; talk to coaches about their teams. It was beneath him. Bob Knight asking a coach for a few minutes of his time?

Bob Knight famously preached that the "will to win" is overrated. It's the will to work -- to prepare -- that counts.

Then we get old.

eddiehaskell
03-26-2017, 06:23 PM
Knight is an interesting character and great coach. I'd rather listen to him over say Jay Williams, Bilas or Dorris Burke. I like his no BS style.

WiJoe
03-26-2017, 07:04 PM
Knight is an interesting character and great coach. I'd rather listen to him over say Jay Williams, Bilas or Dorris Burke. I like his no BS style.

or feinstein, for that matter.

I totally agree, Mr. Haskell. How's Mrs. Haskell?

ballfour
03-29-2017, 03:49 PM
Thanks for the heads up on this link. I've read a huge chunk of the Feinstein books, and pretty much everything he's written about Knight (One on One has a lot of look-backs into what made Season on the Brink so fascinating).

Knight is a monstrous contradiction, as so many interesting people are. He's bright. He can be loquacious, generous (what he did for Landon Turner must be mentioned). But he also sees the world in absolute terms, he demands power in just about every relationship he has, and it's turned him into, as John said, a very old, lonely, bitter man.

So many people from Bob's life just want to love him and celebrate him. It's sad he won't let his 1976 Indiana team do that, or the IU fans. At some point, I think it's important for anyone to ask themselves "would I rather be right, or be happy?"

Bobby Knight doesn't seem like either right now. He'll convince himself he's the former. I can't imagine he's the latter, and that's a shame, albeit one of his own doing.

ballfour
03-29-2017, 03:53 PM
I'm surprised anyone would prefer Knight in the booth over Jay Bilas, however. It's absurd how prepared Bilas is for any game he does, how insatiably curious he is to break things down and understand them. And then he's quick to adjust to the flow of any game, quick to recognize small trends or nuances that bring understanding to the viewer.

I greatly miss the Sean McDonough, Jay Bilas, Bill Raftery team, unquestionably (IMHO) the best three-man booth in broadcasting history. They liked each other, they rarely stepped over each other (super-hard to avoid in a three-man booth), and they brought out the best in one another.

I do think Knight had his moments as a commentator, because he clearly knows the game inside and out. But it's a shame he thought he could just show up and do the job, without the preparation. Heck, it's incredibly ironic that Knight thought he could do that, because Knight the coach was never like that. It reminds me a little bit of the NBA commentators who work on the NCAA tournament for a few weeks, when it's clear they did little or none of the homework required. The viewers deserve better than that.

MChambers
07-07-2017, 07:52 PM
Weird story:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/fbi-investigated-complaints-that-bobby-knight-groped-women-at-us-spy-agency/2017/07/07/ee1fc318-618f-11e7-8adc-fea80e32bf47_story.html?hpid=hp_local-news_knight-rhp-230pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.ba885c94cfbb

Indoor66
07-07-2017, 08:47 PM
Weird story:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/fbi-investigated-complaints-that-bobby-knight-groped-women-at-us-spy-agency/2017/07/07/ee1fc318-618f-11e7-8adc-fea80e32bf47_story.html?hpid=hp_local-news_knight-rhp-230pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.ba885c94cfbb

What, generally, is it about?

MChambers
07-07-2017, 08:55 PM
What, generally, is it about?

That the FBI investigated Knight for making inappropriate contact with four women while making a speech at the NGA, a US intelligence agency. Did not pursue charges.

sagegrouse
07-07-2017, 11:47 PM
That the FBI investigated Knight for making inappropriate contact with four women while making a speech at the NGA, a US intelligence agency. Did not pursue charges.

Yes, and it started as soon as he was picked up at Union Stati9on by a female driver and NGA employee. Then he made inappropriate physical contact three other women. This all happened within a few minutes of arriving at agency HQ. Then more unwelcome physical contact with a woman after his speech.

OldPhiKap
07-08-2017, 07:42 AM
What, generally, is it about?

"The women accused Knight of a range of boorish behavior: from touching them on the shoulder while commenting on the attractiveness of their legs, to hugging them too tightly around the chest, to hitting them on the buttocks, according to documents compiled by investigators and Washington Post interviews with three of the women."

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
07-08-2017, 08:37 AM
Weird story. Feels like a Mad Lib.

Indoor66
07-08-2017, 09:07 AM
Just a dirty old man.

davekay1971
07-08-2017, 09:31 AM
Yes, and it started as soon as he was picked up at Union Stati9on by a female driver and NGA employee. Then he made inappropriate physical contact three other women. This all happened within a few minutes of arriving at agency HQ. Then more unwelcome physical contact with a woman after his speech.

To be fair to Knight, are these allegations or facts?

Sorry, just got off two days of jury duty on a federal drug trafficking case. My mind is kind of warped. Lawyers...:rolleyes:

I agree with the bulk of the comments upthread. Knight's basketball knowledge is incredible. His determination to stick to x's and o's analysis as a color guy was a welcome change from the folks like Vitale and Raftery who seem to want to make the game about them (key point, fellas: basketball is entertaining enough, we don't need a clown show). I will forever be grateful for whatever role he had in bringing the GOAT to Duke, even if it was no more than telling Butters his honest opinion of K when asked. And from many things written and alleged (including the allegations of the female employees, which are all too believable) and known about him, he seems like a class A jerk.

Though the story above from DisplacedBlueDevil is refreshing and cute.

luvdahops
07-08-2017, 11:33 AM
I assume you mean this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZD1vkzYmyI

It's pretty amazing.

And I agree - Bob Knight is a jack***. I still have no idea why people like him on this board. He's an embarrassment of epic proportions. His X's and O's is great, but everything else is rotten. Well, he does have an amazing coaching tree.

I went to Knight's basketball camp two summers when I was in HS. In that setting, he often displayed an extremely paternal side, both in explaining drills and the finer points of the game, and in sharing stories about the counselors, many of them current or former IU players. It is a shame that this side of him has so rarely surfaced publicly. He is a very flawed man for sure, but definitely not without redeeming qualities.

cspan37421
07-08-2017, 11:42 AM
To be fair to Knight, are these allegations or facts?


Thank you for bringing up - obliquely - the importance of distinguishing the two. Ever since the lacrosse rape hoax, I've been much more sensitive to instances where an allegation is treated as fact. It may not be the default human condition - one may have to work at keeping them separate, esp. when coming from someone within your own "tribe."

sagegrouse
07-08-2017, 12:04 PM
To be fair to Knight, are these allegations or facts?

Sorry, just got off two days of jury duty on a federal drug trafficking case. My mind is kind of warped. Lawyers...:rolleyes:

I agree with the bulk of the comments upthread. Knight's basketball knowledge is incredible. His determination to stick to x's and o's analysis as a color guy was a welcome change from the folks like Vitale and Raftery who seem to want to make the game about them (key point, fellas: basketball is entertaining enough, we don't need a clown show). I will forever be grateful for whatever role he had in bringing the GOAT to Duke, even if it was no more than telling Butters his honest opinion of K when asked. And from many things written and alleged (including the allegations of the female employees, which are all too believable) and known about him, he seems like a class A jerk.

Though the story above from DisplacedBlueDevil is refreshing and cute.


Thank you for bringing up - obliquely - the importance of distinguishing the two. Ever since the lacrosse rape hoax, I've been much more sensitive to instances where an allegation is treated as fact. It may not be the default human condition - one may have to work at keeping them separate, esp. when coming from someone within your own "tribe."

Well, we have a reputable reporter with a well-sourced story. Possibly or probably there is another side to it, but this is getting pretty factual as far as I am concerned.

Moreover, Washington Post reporter Craig Whitlock is a Duke grad and was editor of the Chronicle in the late 1980's. He is listed as the Pentagon and foreign policy reporter for the Post. (The National Geospatial Intelligence Agency is part of the Dept. of Defense.) I moderated a speech and discussion he led here in Steamboat at our public policy forum and have a very good impression of Craig. He has won some awards and been nominated three times for Pulitzers. If he reports a story, I tend to believe he has the facts straight.

Indoor66
07-08-2017, 12:19 PM
Well, we have a reputable reporter with a well-sourced story. Possibly or probably there is another side to it, but this is getting pretty factual as far as I am concerned.

Moreover, Washington Post reporter Craig Whitlock is a Duke grad and was editor of the Chronicle in the late 1980's. He is listed as the Pentagon and foreign policy reporter for the Post. (The National Geospatial Intelligence Agency is part of the Dept. of Defense.) I moderated a speech and discussion he led here in Steamboat at our public policy forum and have a very good impression of Craig. He has won some awards and been nominated three times for Pulitzers. If he reports a story, I tend to believe he has the facts straight.

Not being argumentative or defensive of knight, but I do believe that these are allegations and not proven facts. Credentials do not substitute for cross examination and presentation of countervailing evidence. Prudence says to reserve judgment.

sagegrouse
07-08-2017, 12:39 PM
Not being argumentative or defensive of knight, but I do believe that these are allegations and not proven facts. Credentials do not substitute for cross examination and presentation of countervailing evidence. Prudence says to reserve judgment.

I don't disagree, but I take "allegations" to be something levied by police or prosecutors, not a newspaper article. Perhaps I am wrong, which, of course, would be the first time in my life. :rolleyes:

rsvman
07-08-2017, 01:21 PM
Perhaps I am wrong, which, of course, would be the first time in my life. :rolleyes:

Allegedly.

MChambers
07-08-2017, 01:59 PM
I don't disagree, but I take "allegations" to be something levied by police or prosecutors, not a newspaper article. Perhaps I am wrong, which, of course, would be the first time in my life. :rolleyes:
Apparently Knight's lawyer disagrees with you:

“There is absolutely no credible evidence to support this in our opinion, these allegations,” Voyles said, adding that the FBI agents “reported to their superiors that there was no basis for any further action, period.”

sagegrouse
07-08-2017, 02:29 PM
Apparently Knight's lawyer disagrees with you:

“There is absolutely no credible evidence to support this in our opinion, these allegations,” Voyles said, adding that the FBI agents “reported to their superiors that there was no basis for any further action, period.”

See, he labeled them "allegations" -- I didn't. Taking Whitlock's piece at face value, I cannot imagine a criminal case being brought on such behavior.

dudog84
07-08-2017, 02:37 PM
Just a dirty old man.


Not being argumentative or defensive of knight, but I do believe that these are allegations and not proven facts. Credentials do not substitute for cross examination and presentation of countervailing evidence. Prudence says to reserve judgment.

Wow. Just...How do you justify these two statements within hours of each other?

FadedTackyShirt
07-08-2017, 02:48 PM
Terrific basketball mind, but his own demons ultimately made him his own worst enemy. Unlike OJ and Cosby, Knight won't face legal or civil jeopardy.

Isn't exactly a sympathetic figure and doesn't have many friends in the media. He was only 45 when he threw the chair and has always been volatile. Appeared confused during his 2016 campaign appearances, so his wife and sons should limit his public appearances. Unlikely he'll be able to help himself at this point.

Indoor66
07-08-2017, 03:09 PM
Wow. Just...How do you justify these two statements within hours of each other?

He can be innocent of the allegations and still be a dirty old man. They are not mutually exclusive.

MChambers
07-08-2017, 03:50 PM
See, he labeled them "allegations" -- I didn't. Taking Whitlock's piece at face value, I cannot imagine a criminal case being brought on such behavior.

Agreed. Very hard to imagine.

royalblue
07-10-2017, 02:24 PM
I assume you mean this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZD1vkzYmyI

It's pretty amazing.

And I agree - Bob Knight is a jack***. I still have no idea why people like him on this board. He's an embarrassment of epic proportions. His X's and O's is great, but everything else is rotten. Well, he does have an amazing coaching tree.

100's of reasons to dislike Knight here are
Some of the reasons that a few on this board may
have a soft spot hard to overcome for RMK

Top 10 reasons to like RMK

1. Being K's coach at West Point and a part of the development of K as an all time coach and an outstanding person.
2. The well documented and true compassion that Knight showed for K when K's dad passed while in college.
3. 2 years that a Knight led Hoosier team (81 and 84) derailed the Heels from good shot of winning it all in the NCAA tourney
4. Being the first coach to knock Dean off of the all time wins list.
5. The "Traveling Tyler" video break down is fantastic.
6. He really hated the Mich fab 5 years and said he was pulling hard for Duke over the 5 that did not win a big whatever conf championship or a national championship. ( I would have liked Mich to have won in 93)
7. Many memorable press confs that you had to smile while watching.
8. The story that he supposedly made MJ cry
9. Knight arguably a better coach than Dean
10. Golf tips video

More than enough reasons to dislike/hate him
But he really did make his mark on this sport
Better than great on X's and O's one of the best ever.