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Hauerwas
03-23-2017, 11:06 AM
Chase Jeter is transferring. Can't blame him. Whether it be injury or K's short bench, he just got buried. He will flourish somewhere for sure.

Troublemaker
03-23-2017, 11:09 AM
GoDuke announcement (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22724&SPID=1845&DB_LANG=C&ATCLID=211531605&DB_OEM_ID=4200)

Classy statement by Chase. Good luck, young man!

“I have loved my time at Duke, getting a world-class education and competing alongside my brothers every day,” Jeter said. “After careful consideration, I decided it would be best for me to transfer to a school closer to home. I’ve made long-lasting relationships here and I want to thank my teammates and coaches for the support they’ve given me over the last two years.”

DukieTiger
03-23-2017, 11:09 AM
Our fears confirmed. Sigh.. Good luck Chase and thanks for being a great teammate during your time here, even if it didn't end up how you'd hoped.

This is the type of 4 year player Duke really needs to keep around. The 14 and 15 classes have been brutal for Duke in terms of retaining upperclassmen.

azzefkram
03-23-2017, 11:10 AM
Sad to see him go. Best of luck Chase where ever your travels may take you.

Jeffrey
03-23-2017, 11:11 AM
Does this mean Bolden is definitely returning?

CDu
03-23-2017, 11:11 AM
Not shocked. He just seemed overmatched at the ACC level much of the time. And opportunities were going to be slim. I wish him well.

kAzE
03-23-2017, 11:12 AM
Damn it. I really believed next year was going to be Chase's chance to break out. We lose another upperclassman and a really smart kid with a great work ethic. He will be missed.

Good luck wherever you end up, Chase. I wish it could have worked out at Duke.

Dukehky
03-23-2017, 11:12 AM
Does this mean Bolden is definitely returning?

No. Just another one of the dominos to fall.

throatybeard
03-23-2017, 11:13 AM
Jeter aside, if the OP is the real Stanley Hauerwas, I'm super excited.

duke74
03-23-2017, 11:13 AM
Unfortunate, but not surprising. Academic all- ACC, good kid, apparently a good teammate.

Wish him well wherever he lands.

CDu
03-23-2017, 11:14 AM
Does this mean Bolden is definitely returning?

Unfortunately I think the two decisions are unrelated. That said, I hope Bolden returns.

Jeffrey
03-23-2017, 11:15 AM
Unfortunately I think the two decisions are unrelated. That said, I hope Bolden returns.

If I were Jeter, Bolden's decision would have affected mine.

moonpie23
03-23-2017, 11:16 AM
great kid...stuck around and stayed involved and positive.......good luck, chase.....

Hauerwas
03-23-2017, 11:17 AM
Does this mean Bolden is definitely returning?

I think the real question for Bolden is, should he return? If you have not cracked K's tight 7 man rotation you just are not going to play. It's a real shame. So, if Bolden believes he is either going to start or be the first off the bench, he should return, if not, he will probably leave cause K is obviously not going to change at this point, and given the choice K is going to go with only 1 big in the game at a time and play small ball with a stretch 4. To assume that both Carter and Bolden will play significant minutes together next season goes against everything we've seen from K in the last 30 years. He much prefers to play an undersized 3 at the 4 spot instead of going big. So, I won't be at all surprised to see Bolden be the next to bolt.

TKG
03-23-2017, 11:18 AM
Experience in the program, so-called "institutional knowledge", takes another hit (Amile, Matt and upperclassman-to-be Jeter). K and staff will earn their "teaching" pay next year.

downtowndevil
03-23-2017, 11:23 AM
i selfishly feel bad for us as fans that we won't get enjoy Chase's evolution on the court in coming years - which most of seem to think he is on the cusp of. I know as a group we love to cheer on and pull for our boys who commit to the program to make 'the leap'. More so though I feel bad for Chase that his time w/ us didn't work out the way he envisioned due to a plethora of circumstance and bad luck.

above all i else i want to thank Chase for being a GREAT teammate and GREAT student and while he was here doing everything he could to be an outstanding representative of our program and our university. any frustrations never manifested themselves in any public way. i haven't mastered that at 40 years old let alone as a 19yo on a very public, pressure filled stage. great character: well done Chase and his family! Thank you for being on the bus with us. i'm sorry you are getting off this one but to paraphrase Coach K i'm sure you'll be getting on the right one for you. a program and a school is going to be very lucky to land him.

all the best CJ!
downtowndevil

CDu
03-23-2017, 11:24 AM
If I were Jeter, Bolden's decision would have affected mine.

I am not saying they are definitely unrelated. Just that I think they are. Jeter probably realized that he was not going to be a starter at Duke (with or without Bolden), and decided to move on. Bolden may or may not be willing to return and compete for minutes with Carter. We'll see. I do hope he does return. But I have no idea if he will.

Regardless, I guess we should probably keep this thread about Jeter.

Jeffrey
03-23-2017, 11:28 AM
To assume that both Carter and Bolden will play significant minutes together next season goes against everything we've seen from K in the last 30 years.

I think Bolden would have to assume multiple things to feel he should/must transfer. IMO, Bolden would have to assume he would not go in the first round of next year's, relatively weak, NBA draft. Then, he would have to assume Carter will not be injured, will not spend significant time in foul trouble, and is not overrated. How many times has Duke had a highly ranked, big man, recruit who did not average 25+ minutes a game their Freshman season?

kAzE
03-23-2017, 11:28 AM
Chase had shown some interest in UCLA, Kansas, Oregon, Arizona, and UNLV prior to committing to Duke. I wonder if one of those schools will ultimately be his destination. If UCLA is his choice, after his transfer year, he will have a chance to play with the youngest of the Ball brothers, LaMelo Ball. I think a high octane offensive team like the Bruins might be good for Chase. He's very mobile and can run the floor quite well.

Bluedog
03-23-2017, 11:29 AM
People think Nevada is a possible landing spot. I think he definitely showed major improvements this year and what we saw early in the season was pretty solid honestly. Nobody thought we were going to be that succesful out of the gate with all the injuries (Giles, Tatum, Bolden) and a big part of that was Chase being able to play well. Good luck to Chase!

Tripping William
03-23-2017, 11:29 AM
Nothing breeds homesickness quite like playing high school basketball in Las Vegas, it seems. :p

Seriously, best of luck to Chase wherever he may land.

DinoDuke
03-23-2017, 11:30 AM
That's unfortunate. Seemed like an awesome teammate and individual. Was academic all acc as well, I really liked him. Thank you for your time and good luck wherever you end up big guy!

Steven43
03-23-2017, 11:30 AM
great kid...stuck around and stayed involved and positive....good luck, chase....

Umm.........'stuck around'?

Matches
03-23-2017, 11:32 AM
People think Nevada is a possible landing spot. I think he definitely showed major improvements this year and what we saw early in the season was pretty solid honestly. Nobody thought we were going to be that succesful out of the gate with all the injuries (Giles, Tatum, Bolden) and a big part of that was Chase being able to play well. Good luck to Chase!

Nevada and UNLV are the two destinations I've been hearing for awhile. Having to sit out a year and eventually play as a 5th year senior may end up being a really good thing for Jeter. It'll give him an extra year to mature physically and gain some strength. Of course he could have done that at Duke too but it's hard to fault him for wanting to be closer to home/ play more. I believe this has been in the offing for quite awhile but Jeter seemed to remain a good supportive teammate as the season went on. Seems like a really good kid and I definitely wish him the best.

CDu
03-23-2017, 11:36 AM
Nevada and UNLV are the two destinations I've been hearing for awhile. Having to sit out a year and eventually play as a 5th year senior may end up being a really good thing for Jeter. It'll give him an extra year to mature physically and gain some strength. Of course he could have done that at Duke too but it's hard to fault him for wanting to be closer to home/ play more. I believe this has been in the offing for quite awhile but Jeter seemed to remain a good supportive teammate as the season went on. Seems like a really good kid and I definitely wish him the best.

Yeah, this way he can potentially be a starter for his last two years of eligibility, as opposed to a reserve next year and then maybe a starter as a senior (if the cards fall right).

CrazyNotCrazie
03-23-2017, 11:36 AM
Best of luck to Chase and thanks for all of his hard work and being a great teammate. I was really hoping he would stick around and get a chance to play more next year, but I respect that he knows what is best for him.

It sounds pretty clear that he is a good student, so one would think academics will factor into his transfer decision - some of the schools being listed are a lot more academically comparable to Duke than others.

Jeffrey
03-23-2017, 11:40 AM
Jeter probably realized that he was not going to be a starter at Duke (with or without Bolden), and decided to move on.

Jeter is not starting anywhere next season. However, if Bolden left, then Jeter would have probably played substantial minutes in K's 7-8 man rotation.

CDu
03-23-2017, 11:40 AM
I think Bolden would have to assume multiple things to feel he should/must transfer. IMO, Bolden would have to assume he would not go in the first round of next year's, relatively weak, NBA draft. Then, he would have to assume Carter will not be injured, will not spend significant time in foul trouble, and is not overrated. How many times has Duke had a highly ranked, big man, recruit who did not average 25+ minutes a game their Freshman season?

Recruits as highly ranked as Carter? It's pretty rare, actually. Brand, Boozer, and Okafor all played big minutes right away. Giles did not, but that's because he wasn't healthy. Had he been healthy, I think he would have played major minutes.

It's the bigs in the 10-20 recruit range (Plumlee, Kelly, Bolden, Jeter, etc.) that tend to struggle for PT as freshman.

Barring injury, I'd be shocked if Carter isn't a day-1 starter at Duke.

CDu
03-23-2017, 11:41 AM
Jeter is not starting anywhere next season. However, if Bolden left, then Jeter would have probably played substantial minutes in K's 7-8 man rotation.

He would have been a backup had he stayed. I think he decided he wanted to go somewhere where he could be a starter. Even if that meant sitting out a year.

Coballs
03-23-2017, 11:42 AM
This pretty much guarantees Chase of becoming an All-American and Naismith Award finalist in 2 years.

Troublemaker
03-23-2017, 11:44 AM
Umm....'stuck around'?

Stayed on the team and was a great teammate from the bench and in the locker room.


Jeter is not starting anywhere next season. However, if Bolden left, then Jeter would have probably played substantial minutes in K's 7-8 man rotation.

Possibly, but he also might've only played 8-10 mpg backing up Carter.

He's going to want to start in his final two years of eligibility.

left_hook_lacey
03-23-2017, 11:46 AM
Jeter is not starting anywhere next season. However, if Bolden left, then Jeter would have probably played substantial minutes in K's 7-8 man rotation.

So being capable of making K's 7-8 man rotation with substantial minutes isn't an indication that he'd be good enough to "start anywhere next season"? I'd have to disagree.

Matches
03-23-2017, 11:48 AM
So being capable of making K's 7-8 man rotation with substantial minutes isn't an indication that he'd be good enough to "start anywhere next season"? I'd have to disagree.

I think the reference was to the fact that Jeter will have to sit out next season and thus will not be starting anywhere.

kAzE
03-23-2017, 11:48 AM
So being capable of making K's 7-8 man rotation with substantial minutes isn't an indication that he'd be good enough to "start anywhere next season"? I'd have to disagree.

Well, considering he won't play a single minute of college basketball next season, I'd say that statement is pretty accurate.

edit: Matches beat me to it :p

Karl Beem
03-23-2017, 11:48 AM
Does this mean Bolden is definitely returning?

I've assumed that his complete absence from the lineup following the operation, was due to his telling K that he was leaving.

CDu
03-23-2017, 11:49 AM
So being capable of making K's 7-8 man rotation with substantial minutes isn't an indication that he'd be good enough to "start anywhere next season"? I'd have to disagree.

Jeffrey's point was that - by transferring - he won't start anywhere. Unless he goes to a D-2 school, which he won't.

But I don't think that's the issue. I think the issue is that he wants to be a starter, and he doesn't see that happening at Duke. Not everyone is content with being a reserve their entire careers.

Highlander
03-23-2017, 11:51 AM
I think the reference was to the fact that Jeter will have to sit out next season and thus will not be starting anywhere.

Does Jeter have to sit out the entire spring, or just until January or so? IIRC, his last game was in mid-late January. I thought the rule was you had to sit out for a year, but I am not sure if 1 game into spring semester means you played spring semester, or if the requirement refers to calendar year.

If he's eligible in late January, it explains a bit why he never saw action at the end of the season, despite having plenty of time to recover from his injury.

Owen Meany
03-23-2017, 11:52 AM
All the best to Jeter. I am very impressed with his positive attitude on the bench this year since he has evidently been planning on transferring since January. He would have been very valuable as an upperclassman and good teammate. When he did play early this season, he actually played 14 min/game according to the GoDuke release (minutes many would have liked for Bolden to have gotten). For this reason, I thought he was likely to be the next Thornton/Jiggy - a player Coach K values and plays due to intangibles more than his numbers alone might suggest. I am very disappointed to see him leave.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
03-23-2017, 11:52 AM
Am I mistaken that had Jeter announced in January that he was transferring, he would be available for the stretch run for his new team next year?

Seems a wasted opportunity

Jeffrey
03-23-2017, 11:52 AM
Recruits as highly ranked as Carter? It's pretty rare, actually. Brand, Boozer, and Okafor all played big minutes right away. Giles did not, but that's because he wasn't healthy.

I truly do not remember, but were Brand and Boozer ranked as high as Carter? I thought Chris Burgess was ranked higher than Brand? Burgess, Randolph, and Giles were the three I was thinking about.

FadedTackyShirt
03-23-2017, 11:53 AM
I'd think 'SC (with Thornton), UNLV, UCLA, UO, 'Zona, and Nevada would all be in the mix. Nevada had Czyz and now has the Martin Twins from NCSU.

Best of luck to Chase: great teammate and student.

Matches
03-23-2017, 11:54 AM
Does Jeter have to sit out the entire spring, or just until January or so? IIRC, his last game was in mid-late January. I thought the rule was you had to sit out for a year, but I am not sure if 1 game into spring semester means you played spring semester, or if the requirement refers to calendar year.

If he's eligible in late January, it explains a bit why he never saw action at the end of the season, despite having plenty of time to recover from his injury.

I'm not an expert but I think if he played at all during the spring semester he will have to sit out a full academic year.

CDu
03-23-2017, 11:57 AM
I truly do not remember, but were Brand and Boozer ranked as high as Carter? I thought Chris Burgess was ranked higher than Brand? Burgess, Randolph, and Giles were the three I was thinking about.

Burgess had way more hype due to arriving on the high school scene much sooner. But by the spring of that year, Battier and Brand were generally considered the top dogs. Burgess was probably still top-10 though. Unfortunately recruiting rankings don't go that far back. But Brand was definitely up there.

Boozer was a top-10 guy for sure.

Giles is the only surefire top-5 guy at Duke who didn't start right away. And that's just simply isn't a reasonable comp for anyone. Two knee surgeries in less than 3 years.

RPS
03-23-2017, 11:59 AM
Jeter aside, if the OP is the real Stanley Hauerwas, I'm super excited.
I thought the same thing.

Nugget
03-23-2017, 12:00 PM
I think chalking this up entirely to Chase's physical frame or just not quite being good enough or the relative "weakness" of the 2015 recruiting class obscures what a massive player development failure there has been on the part of the coaching staff with regard to Chase.

The 2015 PF recruiting group is, somewhat surprisingly, not that weak. According to the 247 composite ratings, Chase was ranked 4th (behind Cheick Diallo, Ivan Rabb and Henry Ellenson) among a group that included the following in the Top 25: Thomas Bryant (5), Carlton Bragg (6), Deyonta Davis (7), DJ Hogg (8), Mamadi Diakite (9), Dedric Lawson (10) Chimezie Metu (11), Ray Spalding (12), Marquese Chriss (14), Esa Ahmad (15), Tyler Lydon (18), Noah Dickerson (19), Marcus Derrickson (20), Justin Patton (22) and Juwan Morgan (25).

All of those players have raced past Chase -- even ones like Hogg, Lawson, Dickerson and Derrickson who are not "stars" are credible D-1 players. And, it's not like Spalding, Lydon or Patton are physical freaks compared to Chase.

I don't think the coaching staff can be let entirely off the hook here.

CDu
03-23-2017, 12:01 PM
I'm not an expert but I think if he played at all during the spring semester he will have to sit out a full academic year.

Not even just that. By being enrolled and on roster at Duke this spring, he's forced to sit out next year. Regardless of whether he played a minute this spring.

Jeffrey
03-23-2017, 12:02 PM
I think the reference was to the fact that Jeter will have to sit out next season and thus will not be starting anywhere.

Absolutely, thanks!

SoCalDukeFan
03-23-2017, 12:09 PM
Seemed like a good guy, good student and potentially good player.

SoCal

budwom
03-23-2017, 12:10 PM
Jeter is not starting anywhere next season. However, if Bolden left, then Jeter would have probably played substantial minutes in K's 7-8 man rotation.

K's 7-8 man rotation?

Jeffrey
03-23-2017, 12:11 PM
Giles is the only surefire top-5 guy at Duke who didn't start right away. And that's just simply isn't a reasonable comp for anyone. Two knee surgeries in less than 3 years.

I fully agree and was merely using Harry as an example nobody should assume any recruit will have an injury free Freshman season. IIRC, just last season, Tatum and Bolden did not have pre-existing (pre-Duke) medical concerns.

IBleedBlue
03-23-2017, 12:12 PM
If I were Jeter, Bolden's decision would have affected mine.

Jeter's decision had nothing to do with Bolden's decision.
You could see this coming from a mile..

Jeffrey
03-23-2017, 12:13 PM
K's 7-8 man rotation?

How many do you expect?

Olympic Fan
03-23-2017, 12:14 PM
I truly do not remember, but were Brand and Boozer ranked as high as Carter? I thought Chris Burgess was ranked higher than Brand? Burgess, Randolph, and Giles were the three I was thinking about.

Brand won one of the major prep national player of the year awards (the exact rank is hard to find, since that is the last class not covered by the RSCI). Some gurus rated Burgess ahead of Brand, but most preferred Brand ... but both were top 10, even top 5 recruits.

Since then, our top 10 big ranked big men include Shelden Williams (No. 8), McRoberts (No. 1) ,Okafor (No. 1) and Giles (No. 2)

We can quibble about whether McRoberts was really a big man or more of a versatile four (and whether Singler and Parker belong on this list), but he was a productive freshman on a great team.

As CDu points out, when you get out of the top 10, there is a dropoff -- Randolph (14), Mason (18), etc. Even Bolden just missed the top 10 (No. 11).

But on the whole, our top 10 ranked prep big men have worked out as freshmen. Burgess is an exception ... Giles was hurt. But Brand, Boozer, McRoberts, Okafor all panned out. You can go back further to Ferry and maybe Laettner (although I'm not sure he was quite in the top 10)

In fact, if you look at Duke's top 10 ranked recruits at ANY position, the great majority have an immediate impact. It's possible that Carter is hurt or that he's a flop, but the odds are very good that he'll live up to the hype.

CDu
03-23-2017, 12:16 PM
I fully agree and was merely using Harry as an example nobody should assume any recruit will have an injury free Freshman season. IIRC, just last season, Tatum and Bolden did not have pre-existing (pre-Duke) medical concerns.

And Tatum was a full-time starter, so...

I feel quite confident that - baring a major injury that comes out of nowhere - Carter will start and play major minutes next year. I'm not sure that it is reasonable - if Jeter was looking to start - to say "well, Carter might get hurt, so maybe I should stick around on the off-chance that he does."

Troublemaker
03-23-2017, 12:17 PM
I think chalking this up entirely to Chase's physical frame or just not quite being good enough or the relative "weakness" of the 2015 recruiting class obscures what a massive player development failure there has been on the part of the coaching staff with regard to Chase.

The 2015 PF recruiting group is, somewhat surprisingly, not that weak. According to the 247 composite ratings, Chase was ranked 4th (behind Cheick Diallo, Ivan Rabb and Henry Ellenson) among a group that included the following in the Top 25: Thomas Bryant (5), Carlton Bragg (6), Deyonta Davis (7), DJ Hogg (8), Mamadi Diakite (9), Dedric Lawson (10) Chimezie Metu (11), Ray Spalding (12), Marquese Chriss (14), Esa Ahmad (15), Tyler Lydon (18), Noah Dickerson (19), Marcus Derrickson (20), Justin Patton (22) and Juwan Morgan (25).

All of those players have raced past Chase -- even ones like Hogg, Lawson, Dickerson and Derrickson who are not "stars" are credible D-1 players. And, it's not like Spalding, Lydon or Patton are physical freaks compared to Chase.

I don't think the coaching staff can be let entirely off the hook here.

I tend to agree, although recruiting rankings are allowed to be wrong, i.e. maybe he was just overrated.

I think it was a mistake to recruit too many bigs for this season. Some of that wasn't the staff's fault; Amile broke his foot last season, and we weren't going to refuse him the medical redshirt and return to Duke.

But there really was no reason to tack on Bolden in the spring to a roster already loaded with bigs. Their recruiting decisions last spring clearly indicated an intention to play two bigs together this season. But, purely from a player development standpoint, they needed to have more resolve to continue to play two bigs even after the injuries occurred and Giles and Bolden were set back. Otherwise, you end up with something silly like Chase being the 4th or 5th-string center.

kAzE
03-23-2017, 12:17 PM
In fact, if you look at Duke's top 10 ranked recruits at ANY position, the great majority have an immediate impact. It's possible that Carter is hurt or that he's a flop, but the odds are very good that he'll live up to the hype.

Barring injury of course (knock knock), I would be shocked if Carter was not everything we expect him to be. He is as physically dominant a player as anyone we have had as a freshman.

Bolden is definitely one of the strangest cases of expectations vs reality that I can remember, and definitely the exception rather than the rule.

RPS
03-23-2017, 12:20 PM
I'd think 'SC (with Thornton), UNLV, UCLA, UO, 'Zona, and Nevada would all be in the mix. Nevada had Czyz and now has the Martin Twins from NCSU.
Nevada seems like a decent guess given recent success, some transfer history and the coach's decision to stay. Chase's father played at UNLV so they should be in the mix too. Both qualify as "closer to home." I'm less sold on the PAC-12 possibilities. They're closer to home than Durham but not in the same ballpark as the Nevada schools. San Diego State, maybe? They've had a lot of success of late despite a down year this season. Chase's dad is from SD. All guesses...

daveduke76
03-23-2017, 12:21 PM
I think the real question for Bolden is, should he return? If you have not cracked K's tight 7 man rotation you just are not going to play. It's a real shame. So, if Bolden believes he is either going to start or be the first off the bench, he should return, if not, he will probably leave cause K is obviously not going to change at this point, and given the choice K is going to go with only 1 big in the game at a time and play small ball with a stretch 4. To assume that both Carter and Bolden will play significant minutes together next season goes against everything we've seen from K in the last 30 years. He much prefers to play an undersized 3 at the 4 spot instead of going big. So, I won't be at all surprised to see Bolden be the next to bolt.

In one of K's pressers after the game he alluded to increasing the depth of the rotation. For many reasons the 7 man rotation bit him this year. Should have had other players who could step in against South Carolina. Might have given Chase some minutes - might have stayed, seems like a great guy ...

flyingdutchdevil
03-23-2017, 12:22 PM
I think chalking this up entirely to Chase's physical frame or just not quite being good enough or the relative "weakness" of the 2015 recruiting class obscures what a massive player development failure there has been on the part of the coaching staff with regard to Chase.

I don't like hearing that Duke cannot develop big men. I don't think it's correct, and I don't think you can back it up with stats.

But I do 100% believe in the post above. Jeter just wasn't developed during his two years. He was overrated coming into college, but Duke never really saw progress. When we did see progress - in the non-conference schedule - it was a tease. Jeter couldn't capitalize on some improvement. The injury/surgery didn't help, but Jeter WAS healthy towards the latter part of the season. And I think Coach K could have used him.

I think Jeter's lack of develop isn't on Jeter; it's on everyone, especially the coaching staff. Coach K isn't perfect. He doesn't always make the right decision. Hell, the man is human!

If I'm Jeter, transferring is the right call. You get to sit out a year, get stronger, and then come in as a starter for a D-1 school and crush it. I don't think Jeter will turn into Semi 2.0; Jeter is more like a 12/5 kinda guy rather than a 20/10.

I really hope he succeeds. Unlike most transfers, I'll be following Jeter's. I really like the dude. But this transfer comes as zero surprise.

CDu
03-23-2017, 12:24 PM
Barring injury of course (knock knock), I would be shocked if Carter was not everything we expect him to be. He is as physically dominant a player as anyone we have had as a freshman.

Bolden is definitely one of the strangest cases of expectations vs reality that I can remember, and definitely the exception rather than the rule.

Yeah, everything I read about him suggests to me that he's another Elton Brand type of talent. Very big and strong, with reasonable mobility in the lane. A potential bull in a china shop. I'll be shocked if he is not a day-1 starter.

Nugget
03-23-2017, 12:28 PM
I tend to agree, although recruiting rankings are allowed to be wrong, i.e. maybe he was just overrated.

I think it was a mistake to recruit too many bigs for this season. Some of that wasn't the staff's fault; Amile broke his foot last season, and we weren't going to refuse him the medical redshirt and return to Duke.

But there really was no reason to tack on Bolden in the spring to a roster already loaded with bigs. Their recruiting decisions last spring clearly indicated an intention to play two bigs together this season. But, purely from a player development standpoint, they needed to have more resolve to continue to play two bigs even after the injuries occurred and Giles and Bolden were set back. Otherwise, you end up with something silly like Chase being the 4th or 5th-string center.

I think you're right. Over-recruiting bigs, when Coach K has demonstrated over a 30 year sample that his preferred style of play is 4 around 1 with a small-ball stretch 4, doesn't make much sense. I suspect Bolden was just too shiny a target not to go after (especially with the chance to notch a recruiting win over Calipari) - but then he should have committed to play 2 bigs and given them chances without such a short leash during the course of the season rather than falling back on the crutch of going almost entirely with Tatum at PF.

Jeffrey
03-23-2017, 12:29 PM
Brand won one of the major prep national player of the year awards (the exact rank is hard to find, since that is the last class not covered by the RSCI). Some gurus rated Burgess ahead of Brand, but most preferred Brand ... but both were top 10, even top 5 recruits.

Since then, our top 10 big ranked big men include Shelden Williams (No. 8), McRoberts (No. 1) ,Okafor (No. 1) and Giles (No. 2)

We can quibble about whether McRoberts was really a big man or more of a versatile four (and whether Singler and Parker belong on this list), but he was a productive freshman on a great team.

As CDu points out, when you get out of the top 10, there is a dropoff -- Randolph (14), Mason (18), etc. Even Bolden just missed the top 10 (No. 11).

But on the whole, our top 10 ranked prep big men have worked out as freshmen. Burgess is an exception ... Giles was hurt. But Brand, Boozer, McRoberts, Okafor all panned out. You can go back further to Ferry and maybe Laettner (although I'm not sure he was quite in the top 10)

In fact, if you look at Duke's top 10 ranked recruits at ANY position, the great majority have an immediate impact. It's possible that Carter is hurt or that he's a flop, but the odds are very good that he'll live up to the hype.

Much thanks, your memory blows mine away!

I thought Randolph was ranked in the top 10? Maybe, I'm recalling after his junior year? Or, maybe, it was all the local attention?

gam7
03-23-2017, 12:29 PM
Giles is the only surefire top-5 guy at Duke who didn't start right away. And that's just simply isn't a reasonable comp for anyone. Two knee surgeries in less than 3 years.

Two ACLs, but three knee surgeries...

OldPhiKap
03-23-2017, 12:30 PM
Thanks for being part of the Duke family, Chase, and I wish you the best of luck in your next endeavor!

moonpie23
03-23-2017, 12:30 PM
Umm.....'stuck around'?

poor wording......."continued" to stay involved and positive...

Chard
03-23-2017, 12:32 PM
I really hope he succeeds. Unlike most transfers, I'll be following Jeter's. I really like the dude. But this transfer comes as zero surprise.

It still sucks!!! I had high hopes for him next year. I thought he did well at the beginning of this season.

The end of this season just gets better and better.

CDu
03-23-2017, 12:34 PM
Much thanks, your memory blows mine away!

I thought Randolph was ranked in the top 10? Maybe, I'm recalling after his junior year? Or, maybe, it was all the local attention?

Randolph's high school career went a lot like Burgess': he peaked earlier than most. Coincidentally enough, he was passed by another bull-in-a-china-shop, 6'8" big man (Williams) just like Burgess was (Brand).

Randolph was a top-5 prospect before his senior year. But he was overtaken by a bunch of guys his senior year.

Jeffrey
03-23-2017, 12:34 PM
And Tatum was a full-time starter, so...

I feel quite confident that - baring a major injury that comes out of nowhere - Carter will start and play major minutes next year. I'm not sure that it is reasonable - if Jeter was looking to start - to say "well, Carter might get hurt, so maybe I should stick around on the off-chance that he does."

I fully agree!

You believe Jeter will only be satisfied by starting, and I believe he would have been satisfied with substantial PT next season (which would have been very likely, if Bolden departs).

Troublemaker
03-23-2017, 12:35 PM
Jeter just wasn't developed during his two years. He was overrated coming into college, but Duke never really saw progress. When we did see progress - in the non-conference schedule - it was a tease. Jeter couldn't capitalize on some improvement.

This is overstated. He clearly was better at the end of his freshman season than the beginning. And then he took another step up defensively this season. Against Florida State, he was so clearly better than Giles, it was comical. But soon thereafter, Amile returned from injury and soon after that Duke went full-time to a one-big lineup with Giles' development taking priority over both Bolden's and Chase's. And Bolden was ahead of Chase. So no more playing time.

As I wrote above, we recruited too many bigs for this season.

DukieInKansas
03-23-2017, 12:42 PM
Thanks for being part of the Duke family, Chase, and I wish you the best of luck in your next endeavor!

This.

Thank you, Chase, for the time you were here. May the future meet all of your hopes and dreams.

Jeffrey
03-23-2017, 12:43 PM
As I wrote above, we recruited too many bigs for this season.

No doubt!

Jeffrey
03-23-2017, 12:44 PM
Randolph's high school career went a lot like Burgess': he peaked earlier than most. Coincidentally enough, he was passed by another bull-in-a-china-shop, 6'8" big man (Williams) just like Burgess was (Brand).

Randolph was a top-5 prospect before his senior year. But he was overtaken by a bunch of guys his senior year.

Much thanks, your memory also blows mine away!

MChambers
03-23-2017, 12:45 PM
I think chalking this up entirely to Chase's physical frame or just not quite being good enough or the relative "weakness" of the 2015 recruiting class obscures what a massive player development failure there has been on the part of the coaching staff with regard to Chase.

The 2015 PF recruiting group is, somewhat surprisingly, not that weak. According to the 247 composite ratings, Chase was ranked 4th (behind Cheick Diallo, Ivan Rabb and Henry Ellenson) among a group that included the following in the Top 25: Thomas Bryant (5), Carlton Bragg (6), Deyonta Davis (7), DJ Hogg (8), Mamadi Diakite (9), Dedric Lawson (10) Chimezie Metu (11), Ray Spalding (12), Marquese Chriss (14), Esa Ahmad (15), Tyler Lydon (18), Noah Dickerson (19), Marcus Derrickson (20), Justin Patton (22) and Juwan Morgan (25).

All of those players have raced past Chase -- even ones like Hogg, Lawson, Dickerson and Derrickson who are not "stars" are credible D-1 players. And, it's not like Spalding, Lydon or Patton are physical freaks compared to Chase.

I don't think the coaching staff can be let entirely off the hook here.

I think the problem was that we didn't have noted big man coach Steve Wojciechowski to develop him.

Jeffrey
03-23-2017, 12:48 PM
I think the problem was that we didn't have noted big man coach Steve Wojciechowski to develop him.

I would not underrate Nate.

Olympic Fan
03-23-2017, 12:48 PM
Much thanks, your memory blows mine away!

I thought Randolph was ranked in the top 10? Maybe, I'm recalling after his junior year? Or, maybe, it was all the local attention?

There was a point in the summer before his junior year when Randolph was touted as the No. 1 player in his class. I could be misremembering, I think he was the only rising junior on the US Under 18 National Team that went to Moscow and won the world championship.

But in the spring of his senior year, Randolph hurt his foot. Trying to compensate, he developed leg problems. His production went way down. He was not very effective on the AAU circuit that summer. His stock dropped -- down to 14 in the RSCI. Now, the same thing happened to Chris Carrawell, who suffered injuries in both shoulders and dropped from the top 10 to barely in the top 50.

That worked out well. Randolph not so much.

Still, it's interesting. In his first game (against Army), Randolph had 23 points, seven rebounds. He made 1-3 3-pointers. The next time out against Davidson, he had 17 points and 12 rebounds. After two bad performances, he came back with 11 points and five rebounds in 17 minutes against Michigan.

That was the high point of his freshman season. He ended up averaging 7.4 points and 3.9 rebounds in 13.5 minutes a game. Those are actually not bad numbers.

Randolph had surgery that offseason to fix the issue that had bothered him since his junior year of high school. As a junior, he averaged 7.0 points, 4.5 rebounds and shot 59 percent from the floor in 19 minutes a game. As a junior, he got mono and had a less productive season. Then he jumped to the NBA (to help his family -- his father went bankrupt).

He played parts of eight seasons in the NBA and earned $8.9 million in NBA salary. So, hard to say it was a bad decision.

Spanarkel
03-23-2017, 12:49 PM
I don't like hearing that Duke cannot develop big men. I don't think it's correct, and I don't think you can back it up with stats.

But I do 100% believe in the post above. Jeter just wasn't developed during his two years. He was overrated coming into college, but Duke never really saw progress. When we did see progress - in the non-conference schedule - it was a tease. Jeter couldn't capitalize on some improvement. The injury/surgery didn't help, but Jeter WAS healthy towards the latter part of the season. And I think Coach K could have used him.

I think Jeter's lack of develop isn't on Jeter; it's on everyone, especially the coaching staff. Coach K isn't perfect. He doesn't always make the right decision. Hell, the man is human!

If I'm Jeter, transferring is the right call. You get to sit out a year, get stronger, and then come in as a starter for a D-1 school and crush it. I don't think Jeter will turn into Semi 2.0; Jeter is more like a 12/5 kinda guy rather than a 20/10.

I really hope he succeeds. Unlike most transfers, I'll be following Jeter's. I really like the dude. But this transfer comes as zero surprise.

This reminded me of your statement earlier today that this year's UNC team has "half the talent" that this year's Duke team had.

deadhead_dukie
03-23-2017, 12:56 PM
But on the whole, our top 10 ranked prep big men have worked out as freshmen. Burgess is an exception ... Giles was hurt. But Brand, Boozer, McRoberts, Okafor all panned out.

Do you truly believe #1 Josh McRoberts "panned out".....ehhhhhhhh :confused:

Jeffrey
03-23-2017, 12:58 PM
There was a point in the summer before his junior year when Randolph was touted as the No. 1 player in his class. I could be misremembering, I think he was the only rising junior on the US Under 18 National Team that went to Moscow and won the world championship.

But in the spring of his senior year, Randolph hurt his foot. Trying to compensate, he developed leg problems. His production went way down. He was not very effective on the AAU circuit that summer. His stock dropped -- down to 14 in the RSCI. Now, the same thing happened to Chris Carrawell, who suffered injuries in both shoulders and dropped from the top 10 to barely in the top 50.

That worked out well. Randolph not so much.

Still, it's interesting. In his first game (against Army), Randolph had 23 points, seven rebounds. He made 1-3 3-pointers. The next time out against Davidson, he had 17 points and 12 rebounds. After two bad performances, he came back with 11 points and five rebounds in 17 minutes against Michigan.

That was the high point of his freshman season. He ended up averaging 7.4 points and 3.9 rebounds in 13.5 minutes a game. Those are actually not bad numbers.

Randolph had surgery that offseason to fix the issue that had bothered him since his junior year of high school. As a junior, he averaged 7.0 points, 4.5 rebounds and shot 59 percent from the floor in 19 minutes a game. As a junior, he got mono and had a less productive season. Then he jumped to the NBA (to help his family -- his father went bankrupt).

He played parts of eight seasons in the NBA and earned $8.9 million in NBA salary. So, hard to say it was a bad decision.

Much thanks! Your memory is truly amazing and most appreciated!

I'm starting to think you guys went to less Grateful Dead concerts than I did.

budwom
03-23-2017, 12:59 PM
How many do you expect?

I always hope for more, but I've come to expect fewer...like six or so.

daveduke76
03-23-2017, 01:03 PM
I think the real question for Bolden is, should he return? If you have not cracked K's tight 7 man rotation you just are not going to play. It's a real shame. So, if Bolden believes he is either going to start or be the first off the bench, he should return, if not, he will probably leave cause K is obviously not going to change at this point, and given the choice K is going to go with only 1 big in the game at a time and play small ball with a stretch 4. To assume that both Carter and Bolden will play significant minutes together next season goes against everything we've seen from K in the last 30 years. He much prefers to play an undersized 3 at the 4 spot instead of going big. So, I won't be at all surprised to see Bolden be the next to bolt.

In one of K's pressers after the game he alluded to increasing the depth of the rotation. For many reasons the 7 man rotation bit him this year. Should have had other players who could step in against South Carolina. Might have given Chase some minutes - might have stayed, seems like a great guy ...

CDu
03-23-2017, 01:04 PM
There was a point in the summer before his junior year when Randolph was touted as the No. 1 player in his class. I could be misremembering, I think he was the only rising junior on the US Under 18 National Team that went to Moscow and won the world championship.

But in the spring of his senior year, Randolph hurt his foot. Trying to compensate, he developed leg problems. His production went way down. He was not very effective on the AAU circuit that summer. His stock dropped -- down to 14 in the RSCI. Now, the same thing happened to Chris Carrawell, who suffered injuries in both shoulders and dropped from the top 10 to barely in the top 50.

That worked out well. Randolph not so much.

Still, it's interesting. In his first game (against Army), Randolph had 23 points, seven rebounds. He made 1-3 3-pointers. The next time out against Davidson, he had 17 points and 12 rebounds. After two bad performances, he came back with 11 points and five rebounds in 17 minutes against Michigan.

That was the high point of his freshman season. He ended up averaging 7.4 points and 3.9 rebounds in 13.5 minutes a game. Those are actually not bad numbers.

Randolph had surgery that offseason to fix the issue that had bothered him since his junior year of high school. As a junior, he averaged 7.0 points, 4.5 rebounds and shot 59 percent from the floor in 19 minutes a game. As a junior, he got mono and had a less productive season. Then he jumped to the NBA (to help his family -- his father went bankrupt).

He played parts of eight seasons in the NBA and earned $8.9 million in NBA salary. So, hard to say it was a bad decision.

Randolph was hindered by recruiting and Coach K's roster alignment.

The first problem is that he was stuck behind Shelden Williams in the big man rotation. That's always a bad thing in a Coach K rotation. And we had a senior Sanders and a junior Horvath in the rotation as well. And of course we had Duhon, Redick, Ewing, and Dahntay Jones. That, combined with injury issues, really limited Randolph.

In 2004, we brought in Deng, who almost immediately grabbed the starting PF spot. With Williams entrenched as the starter, that again put a huge limit on Randolph's minutes.

In 2005, the stars were in theory aligned for Randolph. But, as you said, he got mono, which hurt his season a lot.

And then, in 2006, we brought in McRoberts. That would have forced Randolph to the bench again. So he saw the writing on the wall and decided to go pro.

So in a way Randolph was hurt by the same thing that hurt Burgess: he was simply stuck behind a better player at his college position. I think he could have been a 12-15 ppg scorer at another school, or if we simply hadn't gotten Williams. But opportunities just never worked out for him.

Hauerwas
03-23-2017, 01:07 PM
I watched Jeter play in high school on the same TEAM USA squad with Kennard, Tyus, and Justice and he was obviously well behind all of them in terms of his readiness for college basketball. He was clearly offensively challenged so it's not surprising that he took time to crack K's limited rotation. So, not sure who this is really on if there is even any blame to go around. He was over projected and over hyped in HS, there is no way he was a 5 star talent. He has developed just obviously not enough to play at Duke, which is a shame. Seems like a great, great kid. Again, best wishes Chase.

He was way behind Myles Turner and Zimmerman who were also on that team. And, they also haven't set the world on fire.

budwom
03-23-2017, 01:09 PM
In one of K's pressers after the game he alluded to increasing the depth of the rotation. For many reasons the 7 man rotation bit him this year. Should have had other players who could step in against South Carolina. Might have given Chase some minutes - might have stayed, seems like a great guy ...

Yes, I do think it bit him, and I think it's being generous saying we had a seven man rotation. Harry averaged 11.5 (in games in which he actually played) and often didn't get off the bench in the second half....my opinion is we had
a 6+ man rotation, with the "+" not being worth wore than .5 at the most...

scottdude8
03-23-2017, 01:12 PM
This is very sad news, as I really thought Chase had the chance to develop into a key contributor as an upperclass-man and follow the career trajectory of Brian Zoubek and Marshall Plumlee. Plus, I loved how great of a teammate Chase seemed to be, as well as his contributions in the classroom.

There is a potential silver lining to this though, as Chase leaving could be an indication that Harry or Marques (or both) have indicated that they're returning, that Coach K sees Vrank or Javin as rotation players next season, or that another big time recruit is coming.

Nonetheless, despite how common transfers are becoming across the NCAA landscape, I never like to see them happening as they give fuel to Duke-hate and negative recruiting tactics. It might be confirmation bias, but it does seem like this happens to Duke more than other top programs, and that could in turn be due to K's desire to have a short rotation. The short rotation definitely makes our great teams into championship teams, but I think we're starting to see how it also hinders the development of longer-term project players... in seasons where we aren't juggernauts it makes so much more sense to have an 8-9 man rotation, even if the weaker guys are just getting 5-10 minutes a game. This helps their development tremendously (see Michigan for an example, although Jon Beilein often goes to the reverse extreme and plays bench guys too much... but I digress. Go Blue!) I love watching 4 year guys develop and it's sad that that's becoming more on an exception rather than the rule (again, to clarify this is more of an NCAA-wide problem than a Duke/K problem, but it does seem to have been especially problematic for us lately).

Unfortunately, I think we all should've seen this coming. As I've mentioned a couple times when talking about Chase, Chase's trajectory this season mirrored that of Michael Gbinije in a LOT of ways. Both were on an upward trend in terms of their minutes heading into the beginning of ACC season before falling out of the rotation completely without much way of an explanation (yes, with Chase there was the back issue, but that seemed to be dealt with by the end of the year based on how people have said he looked in practice). I think we can all take a lesson from these two instances: when a player goes from rotational playing time to zero playing time without any explanation, more times than not something is going on behind the scenes.

Despite the fact I/we should've seen this coming I'm still heartbroken for all the reasons listed above. I wish Chase all the best and hope he gets the chance to flourish like we all think he can.

wsb3
03-23-2017, 01:12 PM
I did not want to believe the T talk. Very disappointed in this news. Best of luck Chase. I hope u find the right place for you.

Edouble
03-23-2017, 01:13 PM
This pretty much guarantees Chase of becoming an All-American and Naismith Award finalist in 2 years.

Congratulations to Nevada on their #9 seed in the NCAA 2020 East Region!

DukieTiger
03-23-2017, 01:14 PM
Random observation, but in spite of only playing 1/3 of the season, Chase Jeter was in one of the top 3 lineups at the end of the year in terms of cumulative +/-

Even though he was injured and never reclaimed a starting spot, the guys who pushed him out of the lineup never really clearly out produced Chase- at least from the perspective of lineup productivity. Hard to blame him from going elsewhere.

I know this happens to pretty much every program, but it's a tough pill to swallow when you consider the "depth issues" Duke can tend to have in the post.

uh_no
03-23-2017, 01:19 PM
Random observation, but in spite of only playing 1/3 of the season, Chase Jeter was in one of the top 3 lineups at the end of the year in terms of cumulative +/-

I mean, that'll happen when the vast majority of your minutes are against patsies in november and december. it's easy to rack up gaudy +/- numbers that way.

DukieTiger
03-23-2017, 01:24 PM
I mean, that'll happen when the vast majority of your minutes are against patsies in november and december. it's easy to rack up gaudy +/- numbers that way.

Sure, he still played against URI, MSU, FLA, KU... my main point was that other lineups had about twice as many games to overtake that particular lineup and it still stayed in the top 3.

MChambers
03-23-2017, 01:24 PM
I would not underrate Nate.

Or Mr. Capel, who did okay with Blake Griffin.

My tongue was in my cheek. Perhaps you weren't around here when Wojo was our big man coach. There was much concern about having a former point guard as our big man coach (concern I did not share).

My guess is that Jeter's limited progress isn't the fault of the staff. I wish Chase well, and wish he were staying, however.

CDu
03-23-2017, 01:30 PM
Sure, he still played against URI, MSU, FLA, KU... my main point was that other lineups had about twice as many games to overtake that particular lineup and it still stayed in the top 3.

Twice as many games isn't a good thing when all of those extra games are against major conference teams.

kAzE
03-23-2017, 01:35 PM
There is a potential silver lining to this though, as Chase leaving could be an indication that Harry or Marques (or both) have indicated that they're returning, that Coach K sees Vrank or Javin as rotation players next season, or that another big time recruit is coming.

Nobody has really been talking about Javin much when discussing next year's team. I'm VERY excited about him. He should be an energy/defense/rebounding guy off the bench next season, but by his 3rd year, he could develop into a more athletic Amile Jefferson.

budwom
03-23-2017, 01:44 PM
Nobody has really been talking about Javin much when discussing next year's team. I'm VERY excited about him. He should be an energy/defense/rebounding guy off the bench next season, but by his 3rd year, he could develop into a more athletic Amile Jefferson.

I am a major DeLaurier fan as well, and had even hoped he'd get some play this year....ack.

bbosbbos
03-23-2017, 01:47 PM
I am a major DeLaurier fan as well, and had even hoped he'd get some play this year...ack.

In your eyes, what lineup would we have in the next season?

Troublemaker
03-23-2017, 01:50 PM
Nobody has really been talking about Javin much when discussing next year's team. I'm VERY excited about him. He should be an energy/defense/rebounding guy off the bench next season, but by his 3rd year, he could develop into a more athletic Amile Jefferson.

Yep, silver lining in any departure is it allows other guys to step up.

I'm completely serious when I say I wouldn't mind rooting for Vrank, Javin, Jack, etc to provide depth for Duke. I'm confident in them. Now, I do want a loaded starting lineup. I want Duval and Knox. But I don't need to have McDonald's All-Americans coming off the bench to be pleased with Duke's roster or Duke's chances next season.

budwom
03-23-2017, 01:55 PM
In your eyes, what lineup would we have in the next season?

What I'd love to see would be (in no particular order) a core of Carter, Trent, Knox, Jackson and Duval...with Delaurier
and of course either Allen or Kennard should one choose to return. I think that would be a solid 6.5 to maybe 7.
White of course could compete, not sure what to think about him, haven't seen enough to have an opinion...

(I'd love to see Bolden too, of course, but...)

Bluegrassdevil1
03-23-2017, 02:07 PM
Great kid. Wonderful representative of the Duke program. I hope he is a star wherever he ends up.

As for the Duke program moving forward in his absence... I am not losing any sleep over it.

gam7
03-23-2017, 02:10 PM
What I'd love to see would be (in no particular order) a core of Carter, Trent, Knox, Jackson and Duval...with Delaurier
and of course either Allen or Kennard should one choose to return. I think that would be a solid 6.5 to maybe 7.
White of course could compete, not sure what to think about him, haven't seen enough to have an opinion...

(I'd love to see Bolden too, of course, but...)

Wow, if no Allen or Kennard, you'd be hard-pressed to find a rotation with less returning experience. In all of college basketball. Ever. Maybe UK 2014? There would be some ... growing pains (to put it kindly).

Devils Librarian
03-23-2017, 02:12 PM
Jeter aside, if the OP is the real Stanley Hauerwas, I'm super excited.

I have thought the same thing for each of his posts!

MrPoon
03-23-2017, 02:21 PM
Well crud.
I completely get the decision but I did like his trajectory and the struggles he had seemed mostly mental, not physical. He'll still have a very good college career.
Maybe this wouldn't have hit me so hard if it wasn't on the back of what feels like such a missed opportunity this year so a departure feels even more weighted emotionally. A good kid who will get better.
I worry this takes a young team next year, younger. This OAD era really puts a burden on the coaching staff (and my nerves!). Next year should prove interesting. So many variables still to come.

I'd say "next play" but that feels too cold when it comes to a transfer that I wish well. Transfers after one year are disappointing, after two years feels more personal. I still get it but it hits home more.

ingrjc1
03-23-2017, 02:30 PM
I think the real question for Bolden is, should he return? If you have not cracked K's tight 7 man rotation you just are not going to play. It's a real shame. So, if Bolden believes he is either going to start or be the first off the bench, he should return, if not, he will probably leave cause K is obviously not going to change at this point, and given the choice K is going to go with only 1 big in the game at a time and play small ball with a stretch 4. To assume that both Carter and Bolden will play significant minutes together next season goes against everything we've seen from K in the last 30 years. He much prefers to play an undersized 3 at the 4 spot instead of going big. So, I won't be at all surprised to see Bolden be the next to bolt.

I don't think Bolden earned the playing time in practice. I know this is probably due to injury, but you have to show you can play (especially defense) to get on the court.

CDu
03-23-2017, 02:30 PM
Wow, if no Allen or Kennard, you'd be hard-pressed to find a rotation with less returning experience. In all of college basketball. Ever. Maybe UK 2014? There would be some ... growing pains (to put it kindly).

If both Allen and Kennard leave, you can darn well guarantee we'll add some experience via the grad transfer market. There is just no realistic way I see us playing next season with zero experienced upperclassmen (using the classical definition for the term: juniors and seniors).

chalz
03-23-2017, 02:33 PM
If you take away the fact that he was ranked highly as a recruit, what is there in his play that suggests to anyone that he is capable of ever being a significant contributor on a top-level team? He showed zero offensive game and lacked the strength to defend in the low post. He fouled at a 7.3 for 40 minute rate, and had 1 assist per every 4 turnovers. I'm not writing any of this as a judgment of his worth as a person; Chase looks like a nice young man and I hope he finds the right level team for his ability. In final analysis, though, he was expected to be a major factor at Duke due to high school rankings that were quite clearly erroneous.

Doria
03-23-2017, 02:37 PM
I'm sorry to hear this, but I think in so many ways, Chase embodied what Duke Athletics is about--sportsmanship, work ethic, and a commitment to the team and to academics. I haven't heard a bad thing about him, and he hasn't had the easiest two years. Cannot blame him for wanting opportunities elsewhere.

I am a little surprised to hear he's transferring closer to home. I'd thought his other school he was considering for college was Harvard (maybe I'm mixing him up with someone else?).

Good luck to him, wherever he ends up. I have always liked both Chase and Luke, even before they came here, since I read the palpable excitement in their tweets to each other after our 2015 championship game. I think he has a bright future, in whatever endeavors he pursues.

jacone21
03-23-2017, 02:43 PM
Jeter aside, if the OP is the real Stanley Hauerwas, I'm super excited.
I have thought the same thing for each of his posts!

Perhaps we should send him a private message asking if it's appropriate to apply deontological principles to hypothetical imperatives. His reply might tell us if it's him.

CDu
03-23-2017, 02:45 PM
I'm sorry to hear this, but I think in so many ways, Chase embodied what Duke Athletics is about--sportsmanship, work ethic, and a commitment to the team and to academics. I haven't heard a bad thing about him, and he hasn't had the easiest two years. Cannot blame him for wanting opportunities elsewhere.

I am a little surprised to hear he's transferring closer to home. I'd thought his other school he was considering for college was Harvard (maybe I'm mixing him up with someone else?).

Good luck to him, wherever he ends up. I have always liked both Chase and Luke, even before they came here, since I read the palpable excitement in their tweets to each other after our 2015 championship game. I think he has a bright future, in whatever endeavors he pursues.

I think you maybe mixing up Jeter with Robinson.

Jeter was recruited - and offered - by Arizona, Kansas, Cal, UConn, Gonzaga, Missouri, UCLA, Oregon, UNLV, etc. I don't think Harvard ever pursued him, and they certainly weren't his #2 option.

That said, I agree with your well wishes. Hope he finds the right place for him. He seemed to be nothing but positive in his time at Duke.

Indoor66
03-23-2017, 03:11 PM
Perhaps we should send him a private message asking if it's appropriate to apply deontological principles to hypothetical imperatives. His reply might tell us if it's him.

It always depends upon the hypothetical imperative to which you refer.😎

COYS
03-23-2017, 03:20 PM
I wish Chase well. When we're talking about Chase's development, it's also important to point out that he was still 17 when he got to Duke (he turned 18 after the fall semester had already started). We often talk about how big men often take longer to develop than guards and wings. Well, Chase was young for a true freshman, much less a true freshman big man. Mason and Miles enrolled at Duke two years older and STILL took time to develop. Chase doesn't even turn 20 until this fall.

Chase showed great defensive instincts and solid mobility and athleticism for a guy his size. He also just wasn't very strong for a center, which made it difficult for him to secure position for rebounds and probably contributed to his struggles on offense, too, as he was easily moved off the block and couldn't finish through contact. Personally, i think sitting out a year, getting stronger, and getting older will help Chase more than anything else. I don't begrudge his decision to transfer one bit. In a hypothetical world in which Chase locks down consistent minutes at Duke over multiple seasons, I think he would have needed to redshirt one season to give his body time to mature. I have no idea if that were even a real possibility for him at any point. Given the injury to Amile and Obi's bad knees last year and Harry/Marques/Jayson/Amile all dealing with injuries this year, I think it's unlikely that sitting out was really an option, even if he had been willing.

Anyway, i wish Chase all the luck in the world and hope he succeeds at his next destination. The next time we see him, I bet the fact that he's older and stronger will make him look like a vastly improved player.

ricks68
03-23-2017, 03:22 PM
I'm sorry to hear this, but I think in so many ways, Chase embodied what Duke Athletics is about--sportsmanship, work ethic, and a commitment to the team and to academics. I haven't heard a bad thing about him, and he hasn't had the easiest two years. Cannot blame him for wanting opportunities elsewhere.

I am a little surprised to hear he's transferring closer to home. I'd thought his other school he was considering for college was Harvard (maybe I'm mixing him up with someone else?).

Good luck to him, wherever he ends up. I have always liked both Chase and Luke, even before they came here, since I read the palpable excitement in their tweets to each other after our 2015 championship game. I think he has a bright future, in whatever endeavors he pursues.

Wendell Carter was considering Harvard.

ricks

Jeffrey
03-23-2017, 03:22 PM
I always hope for more, but I've come to expect fewer...like six or so.

Then, why do you believe the following?


K is going to have to scramble to fill his roster for next year like he never has before.

Jeffrey
03-23-2017, 03:24 PM
Or Mr. Capel, who did okay with Blake Griffin.

My tongue was in my cheek. Perhaps you weren't around here when Wojo was our big man coach. There was much concern about having a former point guard as our big man coach (concern I did not share).

My guess is that Jeter's limited progress isn't the fault of the staff. I wish Chase well, and wish he were staying, however.

Sorry, I took it serious because Wojo was a great big man coach and a serious loss to our coaching staff.

Jeffrey
03-23-2017, 03:31 PM
Upon reflection, I still do not subscribe to the theory Jeter is departing because he will only be satisfied starting. If that were the case, then why didn't he transfer this past season when he found out Giles, Jefferson, and Bolden were all on the roster? If Bolden departs, then Jeter would most likely have been moving up from the 4th big to 2nd. I still think Bolden's decision influenced Jeter's and Bolden is returning.

chriso
03-23-2017, 03:36 PM
I am a major DeLaurier fan as well, and had even hoped he'd get some play this year...ack.

Sorry to see Chase go. Best of luck Chase. Hopefully this means Bolden is staying or Knox is on the way. Maybe both. Regardless, if I'm DeLaurier or Vrank I'm hitting the weight room and playing "Eye of the Tiger" all summer. :)

flyingdutchdevil
03-23-2017, 03:41 PM
Upon reflection, I still do not subscribe to the theory Jeter is departing because he will only be satisfied starting. If that were the case, then why didn't he transfer this past season when he found out Giles, Jefferson, and Bolden were all on the roster? If Bolden departs, then Jeter would most likely have been moving up from the 4th big to 2nd. I still think Bolden's decision influenced Jeter's and Bolden is returning.

I hope you're right. But I tend to side with budwom on this.

Saratoga2
03-23-2017, 03:44 PM
He would have been a backup had he stayed. I think he decided he wanted to go somewhere where he could be a starter. Even if that meant sitting out a year.

This also explains his lack of Pt as the season moved on. Coach K probably knew this was going to happen and wouldn't play a guy who was leaving.

Jeffrey
03-23-2017, 03:46 PM
I hope you're right. But I tend to side with budwom on this.

Are you sure you want to side with budwom? Doesn't budwom basically believe Duke only has a 6 man rotation and K is going to have to scramble to fill his roster for next year like he never has before? That tells me that budwom is only expecting one, or none, of the following to return.... Luke, Grayson, Frank, Harry, and Marques.

flyingdutchdevil
03-23-2017, 03:49 PM
Are you sure you want to side with budwom? Doesn't budwom basically believe Duke only has a 6 man rotation and K is going to have to scramble to fill his roster for next year like he never has before? That tells me that budwom is only expecting one, or none, of the following to return... Luke, Grayson, Frank, Harry, and Marques.

Yup. I hope I'm wrong, but my gut tells me otherwise.

And, if I'm not mistaken, budwom expects Frank to be back. So do I. I expect the other 4 to be gone.

Do I want the other 4 back? You betcha. But I'm not an optimistic dude.

Steven43
03-23-2017, 03:58 PM
poor wording..."continued" to stay involved and positive...

Yep, I get you. I too loved seeing Jeter cheering from the sidelines. He's a good teammate. Really hate to see him leave. He is exactly the student-athlete I have been lamenting becoming scarce at Duke.

I think he made a smart decision in choosing to leave IF he aspires to becoming a professional basketball player. I don't think he was going to ever be a starter at Duke. However, if he is not planning to try and go that route I think he maybe should have stayed. Oh well, mute point now.

Jeffrey
03-23-2017, 04:16 PM
Yup. I hope I'm wrong, but my gut tells me otherwise.

And, if I'm not mistaken, budwom expects Frank to be back. So do I. I expect the other 4 to be gone.

Do I want the other 4 back? You betcha. But I'm not an optimistic dude.

I'm definitely an optimist, but I've truly tried (below) to look at this realistically.

My odds to return:

Frank 80%
Marques 60% (bumped it 10% based on Jeter's decision)
Grayson 40%
Luke 20%
Harry 10%

MCFinARL
03-23-2017, 04:22 PM
I don't like hearing that Duke cannot develop big men. I don't think it's correct, and I don't think you can back it up with stats.

But I do 100% believe in the post above. Jeter just wasn't developed during his two years. He was overrated coming into college, but Duke never really saw progress. When we did see progress - in the non-conference schedule - it was a tease. Jeter couldn't capitalize on some improvement. The injury/surgery didn't help, but Jeter WAS healthy towards the latter part of the season. And I think Coach K could have used him.

I think Jeter's lack of develop isn't on Jeter; it's on everyone, especially the coaching staff. Coach K isn't perfect. He doesn't always make the right decision. Hell, the man is human!

If I'm Jeter, transferring is the right call. You get to sit out a year, get stronger, and then come in as a starter for a D-1 school and crush it. I don't think Jeter will turn into Semi 2.0; Jeter is more like a 12/5 kinda guy rather than a 20/10.

I really hope he succeeds. Unlike most transfers, I'll be following Jeter's. I really like the dude. But this transfer comes as zero surprise.

This sounds right to me, and regardless of whether he achieves a Semi 2.0 level, Chase is like Semi in that a chance to get a fresh start, along with a chance to develop strength and skills during the transfer year while learning whatever system he finds himself in, could be just what he needs. I would have liked to have Semi available against South Carolina, and it won't surprise me if, in a couple of years, there will be a game when I wish we had Chase on the roster.

Agree with others that he seems like a great kid and a great teammate, and he has represented the Duke program well. I wish him all the best.

MCFinARL
03-23-2017, 04:28 PM
I'm definitely an optimist, but I've truly tried (below) to look at this realistically.

My odds to return:

Frank 80%
Marques 60% (bumped it 10% based on Jeter's decision)
Grayson 40%
Luke 20%
Harry 10%

It's certainly possible that Jeter's departure indicates that Bolden may be returning, but as others have said here, it's entirely possible, even likely, Jeter's decision would be the same no matter what Bolden does. Carter is coming in, Jeter had apparently fallen behind Vrank on the roster after starting a couple of games (due to frosh injuries) early in the season, Duke is still fishing for Mo Bamba (although I gather he is seen as a Kentucky lean), etc., etc. He may just not have seen enough of a sure role for himself going forward even without Bolden. Add to that that, realistically, coming back next year would be almost like starting on a whole new team because the personnel will change so much, and he might easily conclude that if he has to start over anyway he would rather do it somewhere else.

budwom
03-23-2017, 04:30 PM
Then, why do you believe the following?

because I think we are very likely to lose nine people off our 13 man roster. Amile, Jones, Tatum, Jeter are definites, and I put Obi in there
as well due to his physical problems. No one expects Harry to return. Which leaves Bolden (I've lost hope), Kennard and Allen. At best I'd expect
to retain one of those last two. So eight or nine departures require some scrambling.

We should have Carter, Trent, O'Connell (?) White, DeLaurier, Jackson and Vrank. That's seven. Gotta have more even if coach only likes to play 6+/game.
Knox and Duval would fix much of this, as would retaining one of Kennard and Allen. I still expect scramblage.

cato
03-23-2017, 04:36 PM
Upon reflection, I still do not subscribe to the theory Jeter is departing because he will only be satisfied starting. If that were the case, then why didn't he transfer this past season when he found out Giles, Jefferson, and Bolden were all on the roster? If Bolden departs, then Jeter would most likely have been moving up from the 4th big to 2nd. I still think Bolden's decision influenced Jeter's and Bolden is returning.

Going into the season, I thought Chase has a good chance to beat out Bolden. Maybe he felt the same?

The fact that they both were stuck to the end of the bench by the end of the campaign may have altered his thinking on the subject of playing time and starters' minutes.

ipatent
03-23-2017, 04:37 PM
I guess he wants to play. He's giving up a Duke degree. Not sure it'll improve his chance to play professionally more than taking a redshirt year would have.

smvalkyries
03-23-2017, 05:03 PM
I wonder why everyone is missing the more logical academic transfer sites- Stanford or UC Berkely. I can't see Chase giving up 2 years into a Duke degree to graduate from UNLV, USC or even UCLA. If he can do as well as he did at Duke I expect him to at least be able to get into Cal or Stanford and ultimately get a comparable college degree (and education) as well as more minutes on the floor in basketball. Chase I am sorry to see you go although I can understand it. You have been and I am sure will continue to be a credit to Duke and all your fellow attendees as well as your teammates. Thank you for attending Duke and we all wish you well in your future endeavors.

FadedTackyShirt
03-23-2017, 05:18 PM
I wonder why everyone is missing the more logical academic transfer sites- Stanford or UC Berkely. I can't see Chase giving up 2 years into a Duke degree to graduate from UNLV, USC or even UCLA. If he can do as well as he did at Duke I expect him to at least be able to get into Cal or Stanford and ultimately get a comparable college degree (and education) as well as more minutes on the floor in basketball. Chase I am sorry to see you go although I can understand it. You have been and I am sure will continue to be a credit to Duke and all your fellow attendees as well as your teammates. Thank you for attending Duke and we all wish you well in your future endeavors.

Cal doesn't have a coach, but agree that the Bay Area duopoly would be preferable to SDSU or either Nevada school.

Had a long chat with Jamal Boykin in a Berkeley bar following a Cal football game. Could not have been nicer and clearly still loved his Duke teammates. Was beloved at two schools and a solid starter on a PAC champ. Chase may not be as charismatic as JB, but thought he was the better player at Duke.

jipops
03-23-2017, 06:10 PM
I think chalking this up entirely to Chase's physical frame or just not quite being good enough or the relative "weakness" of the 2015 recruiting class obscures what a massive player development failure there has been on the part of the coaching staff with regard to Chase.



This sort of train of thought comes up every now and then. And I still very much disagree with it. Yes, to an extent K did over recruit on bigs. But how in the world did the staff "fail" in Jeter's development? Did they forget to invite him to practice? Did they forget what kinds of drills to run? Players make players. They also develop at varying rates. Almost nobody is the same. Jeter showed no ACC level skill coming in. Just getting him into a position where he could even defend ended up being an accomplishment. But the kid has nothing in the way of awareness on the court and no ability to play through any sort of contact or defensive pressure. With Chase all of that was simply going to take time. The game at the ACC level continued to be too fast for him. That looked like a mental thing to me that is on him to get through. And K is not about to sacrifice some ACC losses just to get a kid a few more looks.

If you can play, you're going to play. If you need a lot of work, your time may come with patience. It certainly did with Marshall Plumlee who is on an NBA roster.

-bdbd
03-23-2017, 06:42 PM
I'm definitely an optimist, but I've truly tried (below) to look at this realistically.

My odds to return:

Frank 80%
Marques 60% (bumped it 10% based on Jeter's decision)
Grayson 40%
Luke 20%
Harry 10%


These percentages are pretty close to my own (I might bump up Kennard a bit from 20%). I the end, I kinda expect to see Bolden back - I sure hope so, as he'll see significant minutes next year if here (and I believe he has potential that hasn't truly been seen yet) - and Frank and one of Allen/Kennard. That, plus the recruits coming in would be very solid, especially if we have Duval at PG.

Come on Mr. Duval and Mr. Knox!

BTW, in speaking recently (2 weeks ago) with a well-known media figure with very good connections to Duke, the prediction was K would retire within the next couple of years. I don't think K even knows when it will be, yet, as it'll hang on how he feels and how much he (and Mickey) are enjoying it. Health impacts that too. I really hope that it is longer than that...

But the only real candidates for AD White right now, to consider to backfill K, are: 1. Capel, 2. Collins, 3. Wojo. I expect it to be a quick, easy transition to Associate Head Coach Capel. Not expressing an opinion on any of these men - just making a prediction of who it'll be.

wavedukefan70s
03-23-2017, 06:45 PM
I swear. i thought he was on the verge of breaking out.good luck to him.

53n206
03-23-2017, 07:23 PM
Will always remember him as a man who gave his all. Best of him in every way.

richmclean
03-23-2017, 07:30 PM
This sort of train of thought comes up every now and then. And I still very much disagree with it. Yes, to an extent K did over recruit on bigs. But how in the world did the staff "fail" in Jeter's development? Did they forget to invite him to practice? Did they forget what kinds of drills to run? Players make players. They also develop at varying rates. Almost nobody is the same. Jeter showed no ACC level skill coming in. Just getting him into a position where he could even defend ended up being an accomplishment. But the kid has nothing in the way of awareness on the court and no ability to play through any sort of contact or defensive pressure. With Chase all of that was simply going to take time. The game at the ACC level continued to be too fast for him. That looked like a mental thing to me that is on him to get through. And K is not about to sacrifice some ACC losses just to get a kid a few more looks.

If you can play, you're going to play. If you need a lot of work, your time may come with patience. It certainly did with Marshall Plumlee who is on an NBA roster.

He's alarmingly unathletic to quote a phrase. No quickness or ups or moves or defense. Can't teach 6'10 true but he was very stiff.

Marshall at least was very springy.

MCFinARL
03-23-2017, 09:33 PM
Cal doesn't have a coach, but agree that the Bay Area duopoly would be preferable to SDSU or either Nevada school.

Had a long chat with Jamal Boykin in a Berkeley bar following a Cal football game. Could not have been nicer and clearly still loved his Duke teammates. Was beloved at two schools and a solid starter on a PAC champ. Chase may not be as charismatic as JB, but thought he was the better player at Duke.

Oh man. I loved Jamal Boykin. He was so enthusiastic. He did do very well at Cal.

Earlier poster proposed Cal or Stanford as academically superior to the Nevada schools or to USC or UCLA. Yes, but--while I'm not so sure about the Nevada schools, you can get a very fine education at either USC or UCLA, even if their students' test score averages aren't quite as high as Cal or Stanford's. That being said, a kid who really wants a good education and is willing to work for it can get one at almost any legitimate university, even if the prestige isn't as high. So if the basketball opportunities are better in Nevada, Chase may end up there.

westwall
03-23-2017, 11:11 PM
I watched Jeter play in high school on the same TEAM USA squad with Kennard, Tyus, and Justice and he was obviously well behind all of them in terms of his readiness for college basketball. He was clearly offensively challenged so it's not surprising that he took time to crack K's limited rotation. So, not sure who this is really on if there is even any blame to go around. He was over projected and over hyped in HS, there is no way he was a 5 star talent. He has developed just obviously not enough to play at Duke, which is a shame. Seems like a great, great kid. Again, best wishes Chase.

He was way behind Myles Turner and Zimmerman who were also on that team. And, they also haven't set the world on fire.


I agree. Those who have posted here questioning the ability of the Duke coaching staff simply do not recall Chase as a high school player. I do, and I remember writing that, despite his height, he was very unimprsssive in high school games. (His proponents cited his hook shot, which was erratic then, and which I have never seen since). Also Chase's rating was based on a generally poor year. Very few of those rated below him have achieved stardom on top- ranked teams and Tyler Lydom is the only real NBA caliber player.
I believe that Chase was recruited by Duke as a 'project', despite his young age and lack of demonstrated skills, because of his height and the fact that he clearly had the academics to be a successful Duke student.
From Chase's perspective it hasn't worked out, and he may never become a starter at Duke, but no knowledgeable poster here has contended that Chase did not improve during his time here. Thus I think it unfair to cast unwarranted aspersions on the abilities of the coaching staff.

On the other hand, I do think discussions of the wisdom of a 7 man-only rotation, and of whether a win in November is of equal importance as a win in March, are appropriate.

IFUSTABMEDOINOTBLEEDBLUE
03-24-2017, 09:46 AM
No shock here. If you do not play even with the absence of good big men which we suffered from all year long, I do not blame Chase for wanting to play with someone who will give him a better chance at playing and developing. Good luck Chase and I am sure we will hear more about you and see you at the big dance in the future like so many others have done. K has got to be better with these taller guys and really getting them playing time because its not because they cannot play defense anymore because that has been missing for several years team wide. Disappointed but happy for Chase

RepoMan
03-24-2017, 10:11 AM
If I were Jeter, Bolden's decision would have affected mine.

I would assume that the players have much more information available to them than we have. So, my guess is that he had a strong indication that, whether it be from existing players on the roster, new players coming in, or possible recruits Duke hopes to sign, he faced an up hill battle to get starter minutes the next two years, given the current feedback that he received from the coaching staff.

Jeffrey
03-24-2017, 10:12 AM
I would assume that the players have much more information available to them than we have. So, my guess is that he had a strong indication that, whether it be from existing players on the roster, new players coming in, or possible recruits Duke hopes to sign, he faced an up hill battle to get starter minutes the next two years, given the current feedback that he received from the coaching staff.

I fully agree. We know K is very open and honest. And, I think Jeter's decision signals good news on the horizon.

flyingdutchdevil
03-24-2017, 10:16 AM
I would assume that the players have much more information available to them than we have. So, my guess is that he had a strong indication that, whether it be from existing players on the roster, new players coming in, or possible recruits Duke hopes to sign, he faced an up hill battle to get starter minutes the next two years, given the current feedback that he received from the coaching staff.

Yes. I take Jeter's transfer as good news that we have a reliable 5 rotation next year (I use "rotation" lightly). It can mean that Carter is positioned to play the 5. It can mean that Bolden is coming back and is ahead of Jeter. It can mean that Vrank is poised for a breakout year as a really good backup. It can mean that Bamba is potentially coming. Hell, it may even mean that Giles is coming back! (okay, that last one was a joke. We know he's announcing today).

Duke transfers rarely - if ever - leave for anything other than playing time / their role within a team (star vs role player). IMO, the "I want to play closer to home" is basically code for "playing time".

RepoMan
03-24-2017, 10:24 AM
Yes. I take Jeter's transfer as good news . . .

I also think the timing is good news. Decision made early. No more speculation. That helps.

smvalkyries
03-24-2017, 02:15 PM
Post 122- I agree you can get a superior education anywhere or even w/o college classrooms at all. This doesn't negate the fact that the Duke, Stanford or Cal names don't open more doors and place you a cut above the likes of UNLV, SDSt. USC and even UCLA (which is a fine academic institution). The alumni connections don't hurt either although USC has those in spades). Basketball wise the Pac10,12, whatever clearly provides better competition than the others considered and Cal and Stanford present more opportunity for playing time than USC/UCLA. Anyway it's Chases decision. Hr has earned the right to select a free education from any of tje named schools. I just wouldn't be surpised if he chose Stanford or Cal.

CrazyNotCrazie
03-24-2017, 02:18 PM
What was Chase's relationship like with Thornton? I wonder if joining him at USC would influence his decision of where to go.

cato
03-24-2017, 02:27 PM
I wonder why everyone is missing the more logical academic transfer sites- Stanford or UC Berkely. I can't see Chase giving up 2 years into a Duke degree to graduate from UNLV, USC or even UCLA. If he can do as well as he did at Duke I expect him to at least be able to get into Cal or Stanford and ultimately get a comparable college degree (and education) as well as more minutes on the floor in basketball. Chase I am sorry to see you go although I can understand it. You have been and I am sure will continue to be a credit to Duke and all your fellow attendees as well as your teammates. Thank you for attending Duke and we all wish you well in your future endeavors.

Not sure about your hierarchy here. May people choose USC and UCLA over Cal every year, for lots of reasons.

ETA: location plays a big part in this. Duke does not have a particularly powerful academic reputation out here in SoCal. Stanford is a cut above, but top UC schools are all in roughly the same league as far as academic reputation, and I would rank Duke somewhere near USC.

Furniture
03-24-2017, 05:13 PM
yhase_ (https://www.instagram.com/yhase_/)I'd like to take a moment to thank everyone publicly for the time I have spent here at Duke. It is no question that I have loved being at this university. I have made relationships with some of my closest friends here that will last a lifetime while developing on and off the court. I would like to thank the coaches, my teammates, the fans, and my classmates for making my time here unforgettable and helping me grow as a man. Unfortunately, it is in my best interest that I continue the rest of collegiate career elsewhere. Thank you Duke. 🤘🏽🙏🏽

https://www.instagram.com/p/BSBrK5gDadz/

Troublemaker
03-24-2017, 05:40 PM
What was Chase's relationship like with Thornton? I wonder if joining him at USC would influence his decision of where to go.

Chase and Derryck played on the same AAU team one summer, but I've not heard anything about them being particularly good friends. (Chase and Luke are close, though.)

I don't think Chase will end up at a Pac-12 school. I think with two years of eligibility left, it's time to start and be featured.


yhase_ (https://www.instagram.com/yhase_/)I'd like to take a moment to thank everyone publicly for the time I have spent here at Duke. It is no question that I have loved being at this university. I have made relationships with some of my closest friends here that will last a lifetime while developing on and off the court. I would like to thank the coaches, my teammates, the fans, and my classmates for making my time here unforgettable and helping me grow as a man. Unfortunately, it is in my best interest that I continue the rest of collegiate career elsewhere. Thank you Duke. 🤘🏽🙏🏽

https://www.instagram.com/p/BSBrK5gDadz/

Certainly glad the break up with Chase is going better than the break up with Derryck. Of course, in the latter's case, it was really his "uncle" that was a problem.

Jeffrey
03-24-2017, 05:59 PM
Of course, in the latter's case, it was really his "uncle" that was a problem.

What team does his "uncle" play on?

Jeffrey
03-24-2017, 06:07 PM
yhase_ (https://www.instagram.com/yhase_/)I'd like to take a moment to thank everyone publicly for the time I have spent here at Duke. It is no question that I have loved being at this university. I have made relationships with some of my closest friends here that will last a lifetime while developing on and off the court. I would like to thank the coaches, my teammates, the fans, and my classmates for making my time here unforgettable and helping me grow as a man. Unfortunately, it is in my best interest that I continue the rest of collegiate career elsewhere. Thank you Duke. ��������

https://www.instagram.com/p/BSBrK5gDadz/

It's rather obvious Chase will be very successful and happy wherever his life roads take him.

There is not much upside to playing handball against the curb.

indy1duke
03-25-2017, 07:13 AM
One of my well connected recruiting friends told me quite some time ago that Jeter would transfer, that the situation was similar to Thornton's transfer. This explanation seems confirmed by the absence of Jeter from any playing time even in mop up situations. During warmups Jeter looked very good. He would dunk with authority and looked very mobile. If this is true I doubt that his departure provides much insight into who might be coming or leaving.

Owen Meany
03-25-2017, 08:03 AM
One of my well connected recruiting friends told me quite some time ago that Jeter would transfer, that the situation was similar to Thornton's transfer. This explanation seems confirmed by the absence of Jeter from any playing time even in mop up situations. During warmups Jeter looked very good. He would dunk with authority and looked very mobile. If this is true I doubt that his departure provides much insight into who might be coming or leaving.

First, Chase seems like a really good kid. Academic All-ACC and has cheered everyone on when he was not playing, and even after he was planning on transferring. I really hate to see him go.

On another board it was mentioned that this was decided in January. This is important because many have blamed the coaching staff not playing Chase for his transfer. Chase actually played 15 minutes per game this year. In his last 2 games he played 25 minutes versus FSU and 17 minutes versus Louisville. When it was known that Jeter was transferring it makes sense that Coach K would play and develop players who would be here in the future. I was actually surprised he played that much and was clearly ahead of Bolden in the rotation. I thought then that Chase was going to be the next T. Thornton/Hairston/Matt Jones - a kid who plays more than their stats alone might suggest because Coach K values their leadership and intangibles. Given Jeters age, build, etc. I don't think 7 min and 15 min/game as Frosh/So is actually bad at all - and it appeared he was positioned well for the future. I think his time on the court next year would have naturally increased with experience and physical growth - and that fans would have been the ones asking why was Jeter playing rather than the new freshmen who could jump higher and run faster.

Unfortunately, as indy mentioned, this means that you cannot take the transfer as a sign that Duke has another player coming in to challenge for playing time. Best of luck to Chase. Like Thorton he is leaving behind an opportunity for major minutes on a top team next year. You can question the staff on rotations/playing time/strategies/etc. But I don't believe it is warranted in this particular case. Chase is young for his class, and needs to develop physically and skill-wise. He had a hard time holding his position and staying on the floor without fouling. I can still remember people complaining that he didn't play more against Clemson last year when Duke was pounded on the boards - despite the fact that Jeter had fouled out in 4 minutes of playing time.

Best of luck to Jeter. Very good kid and team mate. He will definitely be missed. He was on a path for a nice career here, especially since he would have been one of, if not the, only upperclassmen on the team the next 2 years. Years ago it was the natural progression that many successful players would make. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like a path many kids are interested in anymore.

MCFinARL
03-25-2017, 08:59 AM
yhase_ (https://www.instagram.com/yhase_/)I'd like to take a moment to thank everyone publicly for the time I have spent here at Duke. It is no question that I have loved being at this university. I have made relationships with some of my closest friends here that will last a lifetime while developing on and off the court. I would like to thank the coaches, my teammates, the fans, and my classmates for making my time here unforgettable and helping me grow as a man. Unfortunately, it is in my best interest that I continue the rest of collegiate career elsewhere. Thank you Duke. 🤘🏽🙏🏽

https://www.instagram.com/p/BSBrK5gDadz/

Very classy. Sorry he feels he has to leave a situation he apparently loved in many ways; wish him the best.

Spanarkel
03-25-2017, 09:12 AM
What team does his "uncle" play on?

I don't know the team, but it's definitely in the " Three I League"(I, me, mine).

Faison1
03-25-2017, 11:46 AM
I would rank this as one of the more disappointing transfers in K's history....not quite up there with Billy McCaffrey, but still pretty high. I really like Chase...mostly for his intangibles. I worried about the "T-word" as soon as he got hurt.

For the life of me, I just don't know why we seem to suffer most from the transfer-plague. Is it the academics, is it the rotation, is it something else?

Add to it, our seemingly endless jinx with west-coast kids. I'm sure it's recently, but when's the last time we had a 4 year West Coast Player? Singler? Demarcus? Cherokee Parks?

Sorry to be a Debbie-Downer, but the transfer thing really bums me out...especially with really good kids like Chase.

uh_no
03-25-2017, 11:56 AM
Is it the academics, is it the rotation, is it something else?


the fact that we can bring in top 10 recruits year after year. it's an open question whether a few minutes of playing time here and there would keep these guys around, but my guess is on "no." For these guys that know their bball career is likely over after college, it makes perfect sense to go somewhere and play major minutes. When you're trying to throw together a team of a bunch of freshman and a few returners, you have to get them as much time as possible on the court. Would we have been as successful in 2015 if we had benched okafor more for plumlee? If we had put winslow on the bench and given semi some run?

Anyway, these guys are not going to get more than a few minutes until maybe sr year with the quality of freshman we bring in every year. It makes sense for them to try their hand elsewhere, and I'm not sure there's really a good answer of what to do about it.

CDu
03-25-2017, 01:40 PM
I would rank this as one of the more disappointing transfers in K's history...not quite up there with Billy McCaffrey, but still pretty high. I really like Chase...mostly for his intangibles. I worried about the "T-word" as soon as he got hurt.

For the life of me, I just don't know why we seem to suffer most from the transfer-plague. Is it the academics, is it the rotation, is it something else?

Add to it, our seemingly endless jinx with west-coast kids. I'm sure it's recently, but when's the last time we had a 4 year West Coast Player? Singler? Demarcus? Cherokee Parks?

Sorry to be a Debbie-Downer, but the transfer thing really bums me out...especially with really good kids like Chase.

Not sure what you mean by a seemingly endless jinx with West Coast kids. You just listed two who stayed all four years fairly recently. We also had Dunleavy and Boozer, who stayed 3 years until they were NBA ready.

We have had five kids from the Western US transfer away: Boykin, King, Czyz, Thornton, and Jeter. In all but one case it was an issue of playing time, as the kid was just not a strong enough player to be a starter at Duke. The one player who transferred not due to playing time did so because he wasn't the focal point of the offense.

But five kids over 15 years is hardly a problem endemic to West Coast.

The bottom line is that players want to play. If they aren't good enough to crack the rotation, they are a reasonable threat to transfer. Guys like Marshall Plumlee (who waited his turn for four years before finally becoming a starter) are becoming the exception these days, not the norm.

Duke95
03-25-2017, 02:22 PM
Chase Jeter has a strong academic record, from what I have read. Why not consider one of the Ivies, perhaps Harvard, where Tommy is (at least for now)?

uh_no
03-25-2017, 02:31 PM
Chase Jeter has a strong academic record, from what I have read. Why not consider one of the Ivies, perhaps Harvard, where Tommy is (at least for now)?

because he said he wanted to be closer to home.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
03-25-2017, 03:20 PM
because he said he wanted to be closer to home.

Isn't that the clever transfer version of someone leaving the company to "pursue other interests?"

MChambers
03-25-2017, 03:24 PM
Isn't that the clever transfer version of someone leaving the company to "pursue other interests?"
To spend more time with your family?

Jeffrey
03-25-2017, 03:30 PM
I don't know the team, but it's definitely in the " Three I League"(I, me, mine).

Thanks, that was the league where old man Burgess played. IIRC, they retired his jersey.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
03-25-2017, 03:35 PM
To spend more time with your family?

More polite than "coach wasn't playing me enough."

weezie
03-25-2017, 03:57 PM
Yeah, well, I'm already a tad bored with the subject. See ya. Wagons ho...

tulsuduke
03-25-2017, 04:02 PM
For any player having already completed two seasons of eligibility, I think staying a 3rd season, graduating early, then re-evaluating things after becoming eligible for a graduate transfer would have been more beneficial for a number of reasons.

In the case of CJ, you leave with a Duke degree in hand.

You don't have to sit out a full season.

You eliminate the possibility of your coach leaving or getting fired before your transfer season is over.

You have a better idea of what your role and minutes would be as you'll pick a school after the incoming recruiting classes have been finalized.

I'd also prefer the mid-season transfer strategy. You will miss a calendar year of games, but get the meat of conference and postseason games the following season when eligibility resumes.

uh_no
03-25-2017, 04:16 PM
Isn't that the clever transfer version of someone leaving the company to "pursue other interests?"

while yes, i think there would be a lot of dissapointment if there was not at least a token effort to go west.

uh_no
03-25-2017, 04:24 PM
For any player having already completed two seasons of eligibility, I think staying a 3rd season, graduating early, then re-evaluating things after becoming eligible for a graduate transfer would have been more beneficial for a number of reasons.



i mean, you don't just call up dean sue, ask to graduate early, and they hand you your degree. not everybody can or wants to graduate early. and even those who would want to may not either have the ability, or the opportunity to do it. for some programs, it may be very difficult, if not impossible, based on required courses, scheduling, etc.

It's a difficult thing to do when you decide as a freshman...i'm going to guess there are few rising juniors who are not already on track to graduate early who can expedite by a full year.

Source: graduated in three years. overloaded 6 straight semesters.

Obviously I don't know Chase's exact situation, but i'm saying in general that you can't just assume that someone who has nearly finished two years can just decide to graduate in three.

tulsuduke
03-25-2017, 05:23 PM
i mean, you don't just call up dean sue, ask to graduate early, and they hand you your degree. not everybody can or wants to graduate early. and even those who would want to may not either have the ability, or the opportunity to do it. for some programs, it may be very difficult, if not impossible, based on required courses, scheduling, etc.

It's a difficult thing to do when you decide as a freshman...i'm going to guess there are few rising juniors who are not already on track to graduate early who can expedite by a full year.

Source: graduated in three years. overloaded 6 straight semesters.

Obviously I don't know Chase's exact situation, but i'm saying in general that you can't just assume that someone who has nearly finished two years can just decide to graduate in three.

First off, no need for that initial statement. I understand how the degree earning process works.

Secondly, it's understood that the player has to be in good academic standing in order for this to work. If a player has completed a normal course load in his first two years (including a summer session), it wouldn't be a tremendous mountain to climb to take summer courses in consecutive years, plus a slightly overloaded regular session load, in order to graduate. Factor in the possibility of AP credits earned in high school, and the player might be in already advantageous position to graduate in 3 years.

Third, in reference to your 2nd bolded statement, last season the number of mid and low majors who "up-transferred" to high-major teams as undergraduate transfers was 42; the number of graduate up-transfers was 49. Those guys figured it out.

http://www.si.com/college-basketball/2017/03/14/college-basketball-transfers-cinderella-ncaa-tournament

CDu
03-25-2017, 06:36 PM
i mean, you don't just call up dean sue, ask to graduate early, and they hand you your degree. not everybody can or wants to graduate early. and even those who would want to may not either have the ability, or the opportunity to do it. for some programs, it may be very difficult, if not impossible, based on required courses, scheduling, etc.

It's a difficult thing to do when you decide as a freshman...i'm going to guess there are few rising juniors who are not already on track to graduate early who can expedite by a full year.

Source: graduated in three years. overloaded 6 straight semesters.

Obviously I don't know Chase's exact situation, but i'm saying in general that you can't just assume that someone who has nearly finished two years can just decide to graduate in three.

The keys to graduating early is summer school. You can definitely get 8 courses (a year's worth) over three summers. But you definitely have to work hard on your plan to do so. Doubtful any of these guys are taking extra courses during either of the standard semesters. So as you said, it comes down to whether or not the student was planning ahead. It certainly isn't an option if the kid hadn't taken enough summer school and hadn't outlined his course path appropriately.

tulsuduke
03-25-2017, 07:47 PM
The keys to graduating early is summer school. You can definitely get 8 courses (a year's worth) over three summers. But you definitely have to work hard on your plan to do so. Doubtful any of these guys are taking extra courses during either of the standard semesters. So as you said, it comes down to whether or not the student was planning ahead. It certainly isn't an option if the kid hadn't taken enough summer school and hadn't outlined his course path appropriately.

Rasheed Sulaimon figured out a way to graduate in 3 years and grad transfer over to Maryland. It stands to reason he wasn't anticipating having to make that kind of a move after his sophomore year was completed.

Bluedog
03-25-2017, 10:14 PM
The keys to graduating early is summer school. You can definitely get 8 courses (a year's worth) over three summers. But you definitely have to work hard on your plan to do so. Doubtful any of these guys are taking extra courses during either of the standard semesters. So as you said, it comes down to whether or not the student was planning ahead. It certainly isn't an option if the kid hadn't taken enough summer school and hadn't outlined his course path appropriately.

Duke basketball players are basically required to do summer session every year as they're on campus training anyways. Over the past few years, they've also requested this for all players prior to their freshman year. This has become even more of a no brainer since the NCAA relaxed the rules of letting the coach spend more time with his players in the off season.

MCFinARL
03-25-2017, 10:26 PM
For any player having already completed two seasons of eligibility, I think staying a 3rd season, graduating early, then re-evaluating things after becoming eligible for a graduate transfer would have been more beneficial for a number of reasons.

In the case of CJ, you leave with a Duke degree in hand.

You don't have to sit out a full season.

You eliminate the possibility of your coach leaving or getting fired before your transfer season is over.

You have a better idea of what your role and minutes would be as you'll pick a school after the incoming recruiting classes have been finalized.

I'd also prefer the mid-season transfer strategy. You will miss a calendar year of games, but get the meat of conference and postseason games the following season when eligibility resumes.

Yes, but--leaving aside the issue of amassing the credits to graduate early--Chase is very young. If he hopes to play as a pro somewhere after finishing school, he might be better off to take the year on the bench to mature physically before playing two years at another school than to work toward a grad transfer a year from now. And he will still leave with a college degree, whether or not it is from Duke.

NSDukeFan
03-26-2017, 06:53 AM
The other issue with staying another year at the school you want to transfer from is that you would only have one year of playing eligibility at the new school instead of two. You could have a degree sooner and not have to sit a year, but you might want to have those two seasons to play more at the new school.

Count me in the group that believes that Jeter would have been a solid contributor at Duke as an upperclassman and was not criminally overrated by all recruiting services. I am very disappointed to see him go, like I usually am with transfers. Unfortunately, or fortunately for freedom of student athletes? this is the new normal for college basketball.

kmspeaks
03-26-2017, 09:55 AM
Yep, I get you. I too loved seeing Jeter cheering from the sidelines. He's a good teammate. Really hate to see him leave. He is exactly the student-athlete I have been lamenting becoming scarce at Duke.

I think he made a smart decision in choosing to leave IF he aspires to becoming a professional basketball player. I don't think he was going to ever be a starter at Duke. However, if he is not planning to try and go that route I think he maybe should have stayed. Oh well, mute point now.

Why does playing professionally have to be the goal to make this smart? Chase Jeter, like all of us, has a small window of time in which he can play organized, competitive basketball. He is guaranteed, barring injury, only 2 more years. I would never begrudge a kid wanting to spend as much of those 2 years as possible on the court rather than on the bench. As a former collegiate athlete and now high school coach I tell kids this all the time, go where you can play! When you're 17 or 18 it may feel great to say, "I'm going to __________ insert name of big D1 school here" but for all but a handful of us those 4 years are all you get and at 40 or 50 years old I suspect many would rather tell their kids about the shot they hit in the smaller conference or D2 tournament than pull up a highlight of their monster towel wave in warmups on the bench at the big dance.

Steven43
03-26-2017, 12:23 PM
Why does playing professionally have to be the goal to make this smart? Chase Jeter, like all of us, has a small window of time in which he can play organized, competitive basketball. He is guaranteed, barring injury, only 2 more years. I would never begrudge a kid wanting to spend as much of those 2 years as possible on the court rather than on the bench. As a former collegiate athlete and now high school coach I tell kids this all the time, go where you can play! When you're 17 or 18 it may feel great to say, "I'm going to __________ insert name of big D1 school here" but for all but a handful of us those 4 years are all you get and at 40 or 50 years old I suspect many would rather tell their kids about the shot they hit in the smaller conference or D2 tournament than pull up a highlight of their monster towel wave in warmups on the bench at the big dance.
If he wants more playing time in college that's one thing. My only point is that it is looking like Jeter is not going to be good enough at basketball to make it in the NBA. Therefore his college degree will matter a lot. And I just happen to highly value a Duke degree. I know there are other great schools academically. I'm just saying he was already a good student at a great academic school and it would be awesome to have a degree from Duke.

Atlanta Duke
03-26-2017, 12:39 PM
I am very disappointed to see him go, like I usually am with transfers. Unfortunately, or fortunately for freedom of student athletes? this is the new normal for college basketball.

True that on transfers - Pete Thamel on SI.com published an article several weeks ago on the increase in transfers from lower tier schools to majors and players at majors transferring to get playing time. A Duke transfer is cited as a tipping point.

For years, mid-major programs thrived thanks to players who transferred down a level when their initial stop didn’t work out. The trend has come full circle....

Coaches and administrators point to the careers of high-profile transfers Luke Hancock and Seth Curry as the tipping point for the trend....

"I think it’s our culture. Everyone is one and done.” [Miami coach] Larrañaga means that if a player is good enough at a high level, he leaves for the NBA. If he excels at a lower level, he leaves for a higher level. At the same time, if a player at a higher level struggles, he’s just as likely to transfer down another level.

http://www.si.com/college-basketball/2017/03/14/college-basketball-transfers-cinderella-ncaa-tournament

dukefan_828
03-30-2017, 03:30 AM
I seen on one of the premium sites that chase's dad spoke about the decision, does anyone here have full access to the interview? Would like to know what he said.

duke79
03-30-2017, 09:03 AM
If he wants more playing time in college that's one thing. My only point is that it is looking like Jeter is not going to be good enough at basketball to make it in the NBA. Therefore his college degree will matter a lot. And I just happen to highly value a Duke degree. I know there are other great schools academically. I'm just saying he was already a good student at a great academic school and it would be awesome to have a degree from Duke.

You make a very valid point about the value of having a Duke degree over the course of his lifetime, but I'm not sure how many kids at his age really think about the long-term consequences of their decisions in this respect. I'm guessing his top priority is to to go somewhere where he can play basketball on a regular basis, and the academics are a very secondary concern. Frankly, I thought Alex Murphy made a similar mistake when he transferred to UF from Duke.

Edouble
03-30-2017, 09:27 AM
First, Chase seems like a really good kid. Academic All-ACC and has cheered everyone on when he was not playing, and even after he was planning on transferring. I really hate to see him go.

On another board it was mentioned that this was decided in January. This is important because many have blamed the coaching staff not playing Chase for his transfer. Chase actually played 15 minutes per game this year. In his last 2 games he played 25 minutes versus FSU and 17 minutes versus Louisville. When it was known that Jeter was transferring it makes sense that Coach K would play and develop players who would be here in the future. I was actually surprised he played that much and was clearly ahead of Bolden in the rotation. I thought then that Chase was going to be the next T. Thornton/Hairston/Matt Jones - a kid who plays more than their stats alone might suggest because Coach K values their leadership and intangibles. Given Jeters age, build, etc. I don't think 7 min and 15 min/game as Frosh/So is actually bad at all - and it appeared he was positioned well for the future. I think his time on the court next year would have naturally increased with experience and physical growth - and that fans would have been the ones asking why was Jeter playing rather than the new freshmen who could jump higher and run faster.

Unfortunately, as indy mentioned, this means that you cannot take the transfer as a sign that Duke has another player coming in to challenge for playing time. Best of luck to Chase. Like Thorton he is leaving behind an opportunity for major minutes on a top team next year. You can question the staff on rotations/playing time/strategies/etc. But I don't believe it is warranted in this particular case. Chase is young for his class, and needs to develop physically and skill-wise. He had a hard time holding his position and staying on the floor without fouling. I can still remember people complaining that he didn't play more against Clemson last year when Duke was pounded on the boards - despite the fact that Jeter had fouled out in 4 minutes of playing time.

Best of luck to Jeter. Very good kid and team mate. He will definitely be missed. He was on a path for a nice career here, especially since he would have been one of, if not the, only upperclassmen on the team the next 2 years. Years ago it was the natural progression that many successful players would make. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like a path many kids are interested in anymore.

Weird time to decide, or rather the worst time to decide. He lost a full semester of eligibility. Most players decide either in December or wait until the season is over.

Why announce a transfer in January and get no playing time for the rest of the season? Weird.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
03-30-2017, 11:54 AM
Weird time to decide, or rather the worst time to decide. He lost a full semester of eligibility. Most players decide either in December or wait until the season is over.

Why announce a transfer in January and get no playing time for the rest of the season? Weird.

This has been my question all along. Makes very little sense to me.

lotusland
03-30-2017, 11:57 AM
If he wants more playing time in college that's one thing. My only point is that it is looking like Jeter is not going to be good enough at basketball to make it in the NBA. Therefore his college degree will matter a lot. And I just happen to highly value a Duke degree. I know there are other great schools academically. I'm just saying he was already a good student at a great academic school and it would be awesome to have a degree from Duke.

Chase is not even an upper-classmen yet. How did Lance Thomas and MPIII look after only two years?

CDu
03-30-2017, 12:02 PM
Chase is not even an upper-classmen yet. How did Lance Thomas and MPIII look after only two years?

Yeah, I agree. The kid is 6'10". Guys that size are in short supply. Now, he certainly has a long way to go to make the NBA. And if I was forced to say today whether or not he'll get there, I'd lean no. But he will have 2-3 more years in college to develop his game. And even after that, he will have chances to make it via other avenues (like Lance Thomas did). I certainly wouldn't close the door on his NBA dreams just yet.

Heck, look at Michael Gbinije and Semi Ojeleye. Gbinije transferred after his freshman year. And then in his third year in college he averaged just 3 points per game in about 15 minutes per game. That's pretty comparable to what Jeter did this year in just his second year. And Jeter was a year younger than Gbinije was entering college, so he's really two years behind where Gbinije was in development. Ojeleye looked lost his first two years, but transferred and sat out an extra half year and then, at age 22, had a monster season for SMU. Both Ojeleye and Gbinije didn't reach their potential until they were 22 years old. Jeter is just 19. Not everyone is ready to star from day or (or even year 2).

I wish Jeter the best, and hope he reaches his NBA dreams.

Wander
03-30-2017, 01:36 PM
On another board it was mentioned that this was decided in January. This is important because many have blamed the coaching staff not playing Chase for his transfer. Chase actually played 15 minutes per game this year. In his last 2 games he played 25 minutes versus FSU and 17 minutes versus Louisville. When it was known that Jeter was transferring it makes sense that Coach K would play and develop players who would be here in the future. I was actually surprised he played that much and was clearly ahead of Bolden in the rotation. I thought then that Chase was going to be the next T. Thornton/Hairston/Matt Jones - a kid who plays more than their stats alone might suggest because Coach K values their leadership and intangibles. Given Jeters age, build, etc. I don't think 7 min and 15 min/game as Frosh/So is actually bad at all - and it appeared he was positioned well for the future. I think his time on the court next year would have naturally increased with experience and physical growth - and that fans would have been the ones asking why was Jeter playing rather than the new freshmen who could jump higher and run faster.


This info makes the past season make a lot more sense to me. I didn't understand why Bolden and Vrank were playing ahead of Jeter at the end... to be completely honest, I think Jeter was better than Giles this season too. Really sucks for our team, I think we would have been in a much better spot this year with Jeter as a backup, but rotation, player.

BobBender
03-30-2017, 04:03 PM
Experience in the program, so-called "institutional knowledge", takes another hit (Amile, Matt and upperclassman-to-be Jeter). K and staff will earn their "teaching" pay next year.

Does anyone else find it exhausting to try to connect emotionally with incoming classes and not have them stay together? Does it ever make sense to cede the OAD market to UK and go for the guys ranked 15-40, who are excellent players who will be in the program for two, maybe perhaps three years? I know this has been broached but it doesn't seem to bother many that we are getting the guys but not necessarily the results ('15 the obvious exception).

Kfanarmy
03-30-2017, 06:25 PM
I seen on one of the premium sites that chase's dad spoke about the decision, does anyone here have full access to the interview? Would like to know what he said.

Buy access? Wouldn't the person who shared the info with you be stealing intellectual property? Not something we should encourage...

Furniture
03-30-2017, 09:44 PM
Does anyone else find it exhausting to try to connect emotionally with incoming classes and not have them stay together? Does it ever make sense to cede the OAD market to UK and go for the guys ranked 15-40, who are excellent players who will be in the program for two, maybe perhaps three years? I know this has been broached but it doesn't seem to bother many that we are getting the guys but not necessarily the results ('15 the obvious exception).

Exhausting? Supporting Duke, winning and even with the losing (you can't win all the time) is just pure fun to me.

CDu
04-02-2017, 09:33 PM
Like I said, Jeter's decision to transfer had nothing to do with Bolden's decision to stay or go:

http://duke.247sports.com/Bolt/Sources-Duke-C-Marques-Bolden-to-transfer-52114502

Here's hoping we can land Bamba, or that Vrankovic and DeLaurier are ready to step up.

Wahoo2000
04-03-2017, 12:25 AM
Pending decisions from Allen and Kennard, it's not unreasonable to see a possibility that Duke my return only one rotation player next year: Frank Jackson.

I still think at least one of Allen or Kennard will be back, though if they were my kids I'd probably be telling them to bolt. Kennard should be a 1st round lock, and it's always a big gamble to think he can improve enough in one year to greatly overcome the inevitable "knock" on staying/getting a year older. Allen could improve his stock, but why put yourself through the mental torture of being under that microscope again? Maybe better to move on and try to catch on with a team where he can develop and be out of the spotlight so some of the negativity can fade away.

arnie
04-03-2017, 05:52 AM
Like I said, Jeter's decision to transfer had nothing to do with Bolden's decision to stay or go:

http://duke.247sports.com/Bolt/Sources-Duke-C-Marques-Bolden-to-transfer-52114502

Here's hoping we can land Bamba, or that Vrankovic and DeLaurier are ready to step up.

I think Javin is the key - he has to get sig. playing time next year and have an impact. Otherwise we may be starting 4 freshmen and one sophomore. Vrank will be a key sub for Carter or Bamba if we land him.

The OAD and transfer phenomena we're experiencing is not fun to watch & Newton's post in another thread sums it up for many of us.

superdave
04-03-2017, 07:21 AM
Pending decisions from Allen and Kennard, it's not unreasonable to see a possibility that Duke my return only one rotation player next year: Frank Jackson.

I still think at least one of Allen or Kennard will be back, though if they were my kids I'd probably be telling them to bolt. Kennard should be a 1st round lock, and it's always a big gamble to think he can improve enough in one year to greatly overcome the inevitable "knock" on staying/getting a year older. Allen could improve his stock, but why put yourself through the mental torture of being under that microscope again? Maybe better to move on and try to catch on with a team where he can develop and be out of the spotlight so some of the negativity can fade away.

What are the odds each comes back?

Allen 50%
Jackson 50%
Kennard 50%

Going to be another long week.

flyingdutchdevil
04-03-2017, 07:29 AM
I think Javin is the key - he has to get sig. playing time next year and have an impact. Otherwise we may be starting 4 freshmen and one sophomore. Vrank will be a key sub for Carter or Bamba if we land him.

The OAD and transfer phenomena we're experiencing is not fun to watch & Newton's post in another thread sums it up for many of us.

I too think it is key. But I'm not so sure, especially with Coach K making the decisions. Javin is a college 4 without a jumpshot (think Hicks). If he can pull a sophomore Amile, then I think Javin can play some 5. But it's not ideal and this will likely result in plenty of penetration without an insurance policy (ie Javin is not rim protector). Coach K doesn't really use 4s without jumpshots, so I'm interested to see how he's going to use Javin.

lotusland
04-03-2017, 07:39 AM
Cmon back Jeter!

Ichabod Drain
04-03-2017, 08:01 AM
Cmon back Jeter!

Ride some pine, one mo time!

Troublemaker
04-03-2017, 08:16 AM
I think Javin is the key - he has to get sig. playing time next year and have an impact. Otherwise we may be starting 4 freshmen and one sophomore. Vrank will be a key sub for Carter or Bamba if we land him.

I'll be disappointed in 2017 recruiting if Javin has to be the starter. (But I would root hard for him regardless). I'd like to see him get playing time next season but as a reserve.


Cmon back Jeter!


Ride some pine, one mo time!

Yep. The picture for Chase hasn't changed much. The prospect of 10 mpg isn't going to bring him back.

Jeffrey
04-03-2017, 09:57 AM
Like I said, Jeter's decision to transfer had nothing to do with Bolden's decision to stay or go:

http://duke.247sports.com/Bolt/Sources-Duke-C-Marques-Bolden-to-transfer-52114502

Here's hoping we can land Bamba, or that Vrankovic and DeLaurier are ready to step up.

Yesiree, you were right! Looks like we are going to pay a very big price for our very short rotation and whatever else may be causing very good players to transfer.

Maybe, I was giving our coaching staff too much credit? Over the many years, they've certainly earned it!

CDu
04-03-2017, 11:18 AM
Yesiree, you were right! Looks like we are going to pay a very big price for our very short rotation and whatever else may be causing very good players to transfer.

Maybe, I was giving our coaching staff too much credit? Over the many years, they've certainly earned it!

I'm still hoping that we get good fortune with Bamba. Or that Bolden decides to change his mind. Or that Vrankovic and DeLaurier are ready to step up. We still have guys (potentially lots of them if Bamba and Knox come or Bolden decides to stay). But there are a lot of question marks at the moment.

I think the staff made a few missteps over the past two seasons in their recruiting. Don't get me wrong: they've CERTAINLY earned the right over the years to make an error here and there. Just unfortunate for it to happen in back to back years, as it leaves us really short on rotation players and/or really dependent on freshmen. But, such is life in the one-and-done era: it is very difficult to navigate miscalculations in back-to-back years. You can survive one, but the one-and-done era really makes it difficult to overcome two years of it.

Here's hoping that they can piece it all together and make this year's mass exodus a minor speed bump rather than a huge problem!

Wahoo2000
04-03-2017, 11:31 AM
What are the odds each comes back?

Allen 50%
Jackson 50%
Kennard 50%

Going to be another long week.

Do people really think Jackson would leave? Seems like he is locked in as a 30-35mpg guy next year, and could improve his stock a ton. I guess there's a chance that both Kennard and Allen returning would run him off, but: a)he doesn't seem like that kind of kid, and b)if you have both of those others losing Jackson doesn't hurt as much.

I still think it's a lock Jackson starts next season next. Less certain on this one, but guessing next to ONE of Kennard/Allen with the other going to the draft.

CDu
04-03-2017, 11:39 AM
Do people really think Jackson would leave? Seems like he is locked in as a 30-35mpg guy next year, and could improve his stock a ton. I guess there's a chance that both Kennard and Allen returning would run him off, but: a)he doesn't seem like that kind of kid, and b)if you have both of those others losing Jackson doesn't hurt as much.

I still think it's a lock Jackson starts next season next. Less certain on this one, but guessing next to ONE of Kennard/Allen with the other going to the draft.

I think the folks that are saying that about Jackson are just gunshy about all the exits. It has been a rough stretch the past two weeks with all of the early entries and transfers, so some folks are frantic now.

But I agree. I don't see much chance Jackson leaves this Spring. He'll have all the minutes and scoring opportunities he can handle, and potentially all the ballhandling duties he can handle too.

I also have a gut feeling that one of the Kennard/Allen duo returns. Not sure which at this point, but I think one will come back.

flyingdutchdevil
04-03-2017, 11:45 AM
I think the folks that are saying that about Jackson are just gunshy about all the exits. It has been a rough stretch the past two weeks with all of the early entries and transfers, so some folks are frantic now.

But I agree. I don't see much chance Jackson leaves this Spring. He'll have all the minutes and scoring opportunities he can handle, and potentially all the ballhandling duties he can handle too.

I also have a gut feeling that one of the Kennard/Allen duo returns. Not sure which at this point, but I think one will come back.

I too think there is very little chance Jackson leaves. He's gonna get all the minutes he wants and Coach K loves dynamic guards (moreso than raw big men, at least).

However, I disagree on Kennard and Allen. They're both gone in my book.

kAzE
04-03-2017, 11:47 AM
I too think there is very little chance Jackson leaves. He's gonna get all the minutes he wants and Coach K loves dynamic guards (moreso than raw big men, at least).

However, I disagree on Kennard and Allen. They're both gone in my book.

And I think they are both coming back! I guess that makes me the optimist, FDD the pessimist, and CDu the moderate/realist :)

FadedTackyShirt
04-03-2017, 12:10 PM
There's a non-zero probability that Jackson doesn't return, but it's not remotely close to 50%.

A transfer would make even less sense for FJ than for DT or Bolden. Frank will still play 30 MPG even with Duval, Grayson, and Luke on the 2018 team. 50/50 seems reasonable for either Grayson or Luke retuning.

As far as Frank leaving to enter the draft, are there any 2017 first round projections for him?

mr. synellinden
04-03-2017, 02:26 PM
There's a non-zero probability that Jackson doesn't return, but it's not remotely close to 50%.

A transfer would make even less sense for FJ than for DT or Bolden. Frank will still play 30 MPG even with Duval, Grayson, and Luke on the 2018 team. 50/50 seems reasonable for either Grayson or Luke retuning.

As far as Frank leaving to enter the draft, are there any 2017 first round projections for him?

Not that I've seen recently. This is the NBAdraft.net 2018 projection (http://www.nbadraft.net/2018mock_draft). They have FJ at #32.

Interesting that if we were to get Knox, Bamba and Duval, we would be projected to have 5 of the top 11 picks next year.

FadedTackyShirt
04-05-2017, 01:27 PM
Jeter's list is reportedly Arizona, San Diego State, USC, UCLA, Cal, Oregon, Gonzaga, and Utah. Surprised UNLV, Nevada, and Stanford aren't on the list.

Doria
04-05-2017, 01:34 PM
Jeter's list is reportedly Arizona, San Diego State, USC, UCLA, Cal, Oregon, Gonzaga, and Utah. Surprised UNLV, Nevada, and Stanford aren't on the list.

I am surprised Stanford isn't, as well, especially with Gonzaga there. And very surprised about UNLV and NV, though I do not know about their academic program.

flyingdutchdevil
04-05-2017, 01:35 PM
I am surprised Stanford isn't, as well, especially with Gonzaga there. And very surprised about UNLV and NV, though I do not know about their academic program.

Scrap my post. I'm clearly an idiot.

CDu
04-05-2017, 01:40 PM
I am surprised Stanford isn't, as well, especially with Gonzaga there. And very surprised about UNLV and NV, though I do not know about their academic program.

He appears to want to go to a good basketball program and is looking at schools in the West. UNLV and Nevada are not on the same tier as the others.

I have no idea, but my guess would be that he winds up at USC. Program on the rise, but offers a strong opportunity to play right away. Also a fairly short drive home for him. And his old Duke classmate Thornton might still be there.

FadedTackyShirt
04-11-2017, 09:24 AM
Chase visiting Cal next week. Pretty good situation for Jeter: spend his redshirt year practicing against Kentucky transfer Marcus Lee and start his final two seasons.

MPandolfi
05-16-2017, 07:13 PM
He just announced that he's transferring to Arizona. Best of luck, Chase.

MChambers
05-16-2017, 07:16 PM
He just announced that he's transferring to Arizona. Best of luck, Chase.

Interesting choice. Hope he does well, except against Duke!

sagegrouse
05-16-2017, 07:17 PM
He just announced that he's transferring to Arizona. Best of luck, Chase.


Interesting choice. Hope he does well, except against Duke!

So much for Chase not being viewed as a top talent.

Edouble
05-16-2017, 10:38 PM
So much for Chase not being viewed as a top talent.

Agree. A Loren Woods-like move.

Ultrarunner
05-16-2017, 10:55 PM
He just announced that he's transferring to Arizona. Best of luck, Chase.

Agreed, best of luck. I like the kid and hope the best for him.

amat1129
05-17-2017, 03:53 AM
Seems like a weird move, if he had gone to a WCC, MWC or lower tier Pac12 school he would have been basically assured more playing time. Instead he's going to an elite program where he will have to sit out an entire season and then be in a similar situation that he was in at Duke. He will have to fight for minutes with very highly rated post recruits who will be younger and likely have higher ceilings as it relates to the draft. I'll probably get corrected about grammar or told I'm stupid or something but it's just my opinion.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
05-17-2017, 05:09 AM
Seems like a weird move, if he had gone to a WCC, MWC or lower tier Pac12 school he would have been basically assured more playing time. Instead he's going to an elite program where he will have to sit out an entire season and then be in a similar situation that he was in at Duke. He will have to fight for minutes with very highly rated post recruits who will be younger and likely have higher ceilings as it relates to the draft. I'll probably get corrected about grammar or told I'm stupid or something but it's just my opinion.

I don't think you are stupid. I think this lateral move shows he has lots of confidence in himself and feels that he wasn't in over his head at Duke, but was just under utilized. He is basically banking on his talent all over again, and Arizona seems to think he's worth a shot.

I say, good for him. Maybe our coaches misjudged him, or maybe Duke just wasn't a good fit. Or, heaven forbid, maybe he really did just want to be closer to his family.

Troublemaker
05-17-2017, 06:20 AM
Seems like a weird move, if he had gone to a WCC, MWC or lower tier Pac12 school he would have been basically assured more playing time. Instead he's going to an elite program where he will have to sit out an entire season and then be in a similar situation that he was in at Duke. He will have to fight for minutes with very highly rated post recruits who will be younger and likely have higher ceilings as it relates to the draft. I'll probably get corrected about grammar or told I'm stupid or something but it's just my opinion.

Like you, I am surprised that he chose Zona and expected that he would choose a lower level.

I do think the weakness of the 2018 high school class played a role in the mutual interest here. After next season, Ayton and Ristic (a senior) will be gone. Who's going to start at center for Zona in 2018-19? I think Sean Miller believes Chase could start for him over most of the highly-ranked big men in the 2018 class. Now, if Zona is able to sign Bol Bol and Marvin Bagley from that class, then Chase will be coming off the bench. But barring that kind of amazing recruiting coup, Chase has a chance. He WILL have to improve though from the nervy, klutzy play that he showed at Duke. Hopefully, he can use his sit-out year to get over that hump.

jv001
05-17-2017, 07:37 AM
Like you, I am surprised that he chose Zona and expected that he would choose a lower level.

I do think the weakness of the 2018 high school class played a role in the mutual interest here. After next season, Ayton and Ristic (a senior) will be gone. Who's going to start at center for Zona in 2018-19? I think Sean Miller believes Chase could start for him over most of the highly-ranked big men in the 2018 class. Now, if Zona is able to sign Bol Bol and Marvin Bagley from that class, then Chase will be coming off the bench. But barring that kind of amazing recruiting coup, Chase has a chance. He WILL have to improve though from the nervy, klutzy play that he showed at Duke. Hopefully, he can use his sit-out year to get over that hump.

I can't spork you, must spread more around. But your description of Chase's play was spot on from my eye test. From the first time I saw him play as a senior in high school until this past season. I was not in the camp that thought he would be an outstanding college player. I do think Chase did improve and I loved his hustle and his work ethic. He will probable be a good backup post player for Arizona and I wish him well. Prove me wrong big guy and good luck. GoDuke!

Clay Feet POF
05-17-2017, 08:32 AM
I don't think you are stupid. I think this lateral move shows he has lots of confidence in himself and feels that he wasn't in over his head at Duke, but was just under utilized. He is basically banking on his talent all over again, and Arizona seems to think he's worth a shot.

I say, good for him. Maybe our coaches misjudged him, or maybe Duke just wasn't a good fit. Or, heaven forbid, maybe he really did just want to be closer to his family.

Plus Tax, One of the best young men to wear a Duke uniform, God Bless.

flyingdutchdevil
05-17-2017, 08:45 AM
I don't think you are stupid. I think this lateral move shows he has lots of confidence in himself and feels that he wasn't in over his head at Duke, but was just under utilized. He is basically banking on his talent all over again, and Arizona seems to think he's worth a shot.

I say, good for him. Maybe our coaches misjudged him, or maybe Duke just wasn't a good fit. Or, heaven forbid, maybe he really did just want to be closer to his family.

Or maybe our coaches completely mismanaged him? Coach K does err once in a while, ya know.

If Chase turns out to be a really solid player at Zona, I put this one on the coaches.

fraggler
05-17-2017, 09:02 AM
Or maybe our coaches completely mismanaged him? Coach K does err once in a while, ya know.

If Chase turns out to be a really solid player at Zona, I put this one on the coaches.

We won't know for two years. If he does develop, I don't see how you can put it on the coaches. It could just prove his own impatience or hard work. We will never know what he could have become here because he left. I'm disappointed because I did see the improvements he made and had high hopes for him here still. Hope he does make it at Zona.

FerryFor50
05-17-2017, 09:19 AM
Or maybe our coaches completely mismanaged him? Coach K does err once in a while, ya know.

If Chase turns out to be a really solid player at Zona, I put this one on the coaches.

Olek Cycz was also clumsy and klutzy at Duke. Transferred to Nevada and did great. Do you think coaches mismanaged Cycz?

I think Jeter just was blinded by the bright lights. Arizona is a top tier program, but with less of a spotlight.

flyingdutchdevil
05-17-2017, 09:19 AM
We won't know for two years. If he does develop, I don't see how you can put it on the coaches. It could just prove his own impatience or hard work. We will never know what he could have become here because he left. I'm disappointed because I did see the improvements he made and had high hopes for him here still. Hope he does make it at Zona.

I agree that we saw improvements. But Chase was "recruited over" this year. There is no way he's starting over Carter/Bolden. He is a top 15 recruited player who likely wouldn't start until his senior year. I completely understand why he left.

FYI: I don't believe that Duke doesn't recruit over their own players. If UK does, then ya better better believe Duke does it too.

flyingdutchdevil
05-17-2017, 09:22 AM
Olek Cycz was also clumsy and klutzy at Duke. Transferred to Nevada and did great. Do you think coaches mismanaged Cycz?

I think Jeter just was blinded by the bright lights. Arizona is a top tier program, but with less of a spotlight.

Are you really comparing Nevada to Zona? And Czyz to Jeter? Olek Czyz was the 66th best player in his class. Jeter was 14th

FerryFor50
05-17-2017, 09:23 AM
Are you really comparing Nevada to Zona? And Czyz to Jeter? Olek Czyz was the 66th best player in his class. Jeter was 14th

I don't think you answered my question, but thanks for correcting the spelling. I always muck that one up. :)

niveklaen
05-17-2017, 09:32 AM
I hope that Chase does really well at Zona. Both for him and because of our history with transfers blowing up at the next school. Billy McCaffry blew up at Vandy and we won a title. Elliot Williams blew up at Memphis and we won a title. Semi and Silent G blew up and we won a title. I like that track record. (I know, 'blew up' is a super scientific objective fact and small sample size and correlation/causality issues apply, but its fun to think about.)

FerryFor50
05-17-2017, 09:34 AM
I don't think you answered my question, but thanks for correcting the spelling. I always muck that one up. :)

For fun, I dug up the Czyz transfer thread. Some common narratives in there, even for a #66 player:

http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?18462-Czyz-Transferring&highlight=czyz

flyingdutchdevil
05-17-2017, 09:37 AM
I don't think you answered my question, but thanks for correcting the spelling. I always muck that one up. :)

Well, to answer your question, no they didn't. Czyz was likely to be a rotation player who wanted more playing time. Jeter was a highly ranked recruit who showed drastic improvement from freshman to sophomore year.

FerryFor50
05-17-2017, 09:44 AM
Well, to answer your question, no they didn't. Czyz was likely to be a rotation player who wanted more playing time. Jeter was a highly ranked recruit who showed drastic improvement from freshman to sophomore year.

I disagree with "drastic" improvement. He was better, but I don't think it was that much better. He definitely got better at not fouling and looked less lost on defense, but he scored at a less efficient rate.

Also, Jeter was given plenty of opportunities and didn't capitalize. Then he got hurt and the timing was bad for him, because Giles and Bolden got healthy during that time and were better options than Jeter. Czyz never really saw the court.

Jeter wasn't necessarily leaving for playing time, but to be featured on offense more, from what his dad seemed to be saying. I don't know that offense is where his value is, and I think he would have found plenty of opportunity at Duke,

Wander
05-17-2017, 11:05 AM
There is no way he's starting over Carter/Bolden.

I don't really agree. I don't see how you can look at their play last year and say Bolden is obviously going to be better than Jeter. Seems to me like it would be a competition between the two of them for a starting role.

He played 25 and 17 non-garbage-time minutes in the two games before he apparently told the coaches he was going to transfer. I'd guess that if he hadn't made that decision, he would have continued to see meaningful minutes throughout the season, with a realistic chance to improve that to a starting role with improvement over the summer.

tbyers11
05-17-2017, 11:58 AM
I don't really agree. I don't see how you can look at their play last year and say Bolden is obviously going to be better than Jeter. Seems to me like it would be a competition between the two of them for a starting role.

He played 25 and 17 non-garbage-time minutes in the two games before he apparently told the coaches he was going to transfer. I'd guess that if he hadn't made that decision, he would have continued to see meaningful minutes throughout the season, with a realistic chance to improve that to a starting role with improvement over the summer.

If you look at their play in games last year I agree that you couldn't definitively say that Bolden would start over Jeter.

However, if you take people (trusted posters here and the coaching staff) who saw pre-injury Bolden in the October practices and the pre-season scrimmages at their word I think it is pretty clear that a healthy, in shape Bolden was in front of Jeter. Chase's decision to transfer also seems to be a sign that was the opinion of the coaching staff going forward as well.

COYS
05-17-2017, 05:43 PM
I don't really agree. I don't see how you can look at their play last year and say Bolden is obviously going to be better than Jeter. Seems to me like it would be a competition between the two of them for a starting role.

He played 25 and 17 non-garbage-time minutes in the two games before he apparently told the coaches he was going to transfer. I'd guess that if he hadn't made that decision, he would have continued to see meaningful minutes throughout the season, with a realistic chance to improve that to a starting role with improvement over the summer.

Chase also saw his rebound rate drop from his freshman season. In fact, Luke was a better rebounder than Chase this past season. Also, Chase got a lot of his minutes early when there were a few cupcakes sandwiched in there. He did improve his shot-blocking abilities. In fact, he led the team in block percentage. However, he wasn't astronomically higher than Amile or Harry in that area. From the eye test, I thought Chase was pretty good with his defensive rotations, but he wasn't so good that it negated his lack of offense and rebounding.

If Chase does well at Zona (and I really hope he does), I think the primary reason will the physical development he gets during his redshirt season. Chase is young for his class when many (most?) DI players are actually a few months to a year old for their class (Mason and Miles fit this mold). For big guys, the extra year of physical development is absolutely key. Chase doesn't even turn 20 until September while many other DI big guys turn 22 during their junior years. I actually think Chase will have the opportunity to show a lot more ability playing his RS junior and senior seasons at the "right" age.

If the staff is to be blamed for anything, it's that Chase perhaps needed a redshirt year at Duke. However, we have no idea whether or not this is something that was possible (with the thin post rotation and Amile's injury in '16 and the rash of injuries to start the season in '17, I'm not sure that this was really an option) or something that Chase wanted.

As for recruiting over a player, Coach K is, from all reports I've ever heard, clear that Duke will always try to be the best team it can be and will always bring in the best players possible, provided they fit the culture of the program. While there are some players who fill obvious needs and therefore can be pretty certain of their starting spot, K has had no problem benching young stars. In 2012 during one of the preseason tournaments Coach K put Austin on the bench and left Tyler in. Tyler promptly hit a clutch shot against Kansas to give Duke a big preseason victory. Anyway, my point is that if you decide to play at Duke, you have to know that there is a high probability that you will be surrounded by other talented players at your position.

Finally, while I don't like to see players transfer, I DO like to see players succeed. Many times, a transfer is not a bad thing at all, but a good thing for everyone involved. Chase is an amateur athlete who simply wants to put himself in the best situation. Duke is awesome, but it can't be awesome for everybody at all times. Things didn't work out the way Duke and Chase hoped. That is fine. It happens when you enroll at a high level program. Hopefully he'll be able to get things to work out better for him in the desert. Regardless of his future success, I think it's wrong to say that the staff "messed up." There are so many other factors.

sagegrouse
05-17-2017, 05:54 PM
IMHO (where the H went AWOL in 2003), Jeter is a casualty of our recruiting process. I can't second-guess our recruiting process given the uncertainties of the one-and-done era, but I believe Chase would have been a fine three-or-four year player, but we recruited over him -- and ended up with Harry Giles, who made only a slight contribution due to injuries and who knows, and Marques, who didn't make much of a contribution either for some of the same reasons.

Wander
05-17-2017, 06:01 PM
Regardless of his future success, I think it's wrong to say that the staff "messed up." There are so many other factors.

I guess that's my point. The staff WAS playing him meaningful minutes, and he would have had a chance to start or be the first big off the bench next year. 3 out of the 5 times he played more than 20 minutes were against Kansas, FSU, and Michigan State. So I don't see how Jeter can fall under the "staff didn't play a guy enough minutes so he transferred" argument.

sagegrouse
05-17-2017, 06:12 PM
I guess that's my point. The staff WAS playing him meaningful minutes, and he would have had a chance to start or be the first big off the bench next year. 3 out of the 5 times he played more than 20 minutes were against Kansas, FSU, and Michigan State. So I don't see how Jeter can fall under the "staff didn't play a guy enough minutes so he transferred" argument.

As I said above, it wasn't that the coaches made irrational decisions to keep Chase on the bench; it is that they recruited over a top-15 player and, so far, have gotten very little for it. Giles and Bolden made little contribution this year, and their arrival, in my view, led to Chase's departure. I hate to lose a potentially good player, especially one with superb academic results, who would probably be a prominent Dukie for decades to come.

Was it wrong to recruit Giles and Bolden? Not in this day and age; you recruit more players than in the old days. A big year from Bolden in 2018 will make a big difference in my view on this matter.

AtlDuke72
05-18-2017, 01:06 PM
IMHO (where the H went AWOL in 2003), Jeter is a casualty of our recruiting process. I can't second-guess our recruiting process given the uncertainties of the one-and-done era, but I believe Chase would have been a fine three-or-four year player, but we recruited over him -- and ended up with Harry Giles, who made only a slight contribution due to injuries and who knows, and Marques, who didn't make much of a contribution either for some of the same reasons.

You saw a lot more in Jeter than I ever did.

juise
05-20-2017, 12:19 AM
You saw a lot more in Jeter than I ever did.

Greatest water bottle flip in the illustrious history of CTC ring any bells? :confused:

;)

lotusland
05-20-2017, 07:42 AM
Gary Parrish made a point on his podcast yesterday that UNC and Villanova succeeded by signing recruits ranked 25 - 75 range who stayed 3-4 years. In the case of UNC they offered 49 recruits ranked higher than 25 but missed on 46 of them. Only after missing did Roy sign the 25-75 guys. Because he continued to miss, those 25-75 guys weren't recruited over so they didn't transfer and were allowed to develop on the court over 3-4 years. despite his rank I think Jeter readiness to to contribute more resembles a 25-75 guy. Parrish pointed out that Duke and Kentucky out recruited UNC by a wide margin yet UNC was better.

A miss on Bolden (or not recruiting him to begin with) would not have hurt Duke at all and probably would have kept Jeter not only for next year but the following year as well when he could be a senior leader while Bolden is hoping reset to be two and done. Parrish said recruiting 2 potential OAD players and 2 or 3 guys ranked 25-75 each year might be a better strategy than trying to reload the whole roster each year. Makes sense to me.

Indoor66
05-20-2017, 08:00 AM
Gary Parrish made a point on his podcast yesterday that UNC and Villanova succeeded by signing recruits ranked 25 - 75 range who stayed 3-4 years. In the case of UNC they offered 49 recruits ranked higher than 25 but missed on 46 of them. Only after missing did Roy sign the 25-75 guys. Because he continued to miss, those 25-75 guys weren't recruited over so they didn't transfer and were allowed to develop on the court over 3-4 years. despite his rank I think Jeter readiness to to contribute more resembles a 25-75 guy. Parrish pointed out that Duke and Kentucky out recruited UNC by a wide margin yet UNC was better.

A miss on Bolden (or not recruiting him to begin with) would not have hurt Duke at all and probably would have kept Jeter not only for next year but the following year as well when he could be a senior leader while Bolden is hoping reset to be two and done. Parrish said recruiting 2 potential OAD players and 2 or 3 guys ranked 25-75 each year might be a better strategy than trying to reload the whole roster each year. Makes sense to me.

It is especially sage after the fact.

cato
05-20-2017, 09:00 AM
Gary Parrish made a point on his podcast yesterday that UNC and Villanova succeeded by signing recruits ranked 25 - 75 range who stayed 3-4 years. In the case of UNC they offered 49 recruits ranked higher than 25 but missed on 46 of them. Only after missing did Roy sign the 25-75 guys. Because he continued to miss, those 25-75 guys weren't recruited over so they didn't transfer and were allowed to develop on the court over 3-4 years. despite his rank I think Jeter readiness to to contribute more resembles a 25-75 guy. Parrish pointed out that Duke and Kentucky out recruited UNC by a wide margin yet UNC was better.

A miss on Bolden (or not recruiting him to begin with) would not have hurt Duke at all and probably would have kept Jeter not only for next year but the following year as well when he could be a senior leader while Bolden is hoping reset to be two and done. Parrish said recruiting 2 potential OAD players and 2 or 3 guys ranked 25-75 each year might be a better strategy than trying to reload the whole roster each year. Makes sense to me.

So, the strategy is to recruit the best players, miss, get the next tier on board, keep them around and win championships?

Yes, things worked out for UNC over the past two years. Does that mean they are no longer recruiting the best players?

FadedTackyShirt
05-20-2017, 09:22 AM
On paper, Jeter was a prototypical Duke recruit: high potential athletically and academically, interested in playing on a national contender. Didn't work on, so he moved on to 'Zona. Bummer since it didn't work for both sides.

Reminds me more of Mike Chappell than Crawford Palmer or Michael Thompson. Duke's hoops/academic combo is unique, but some value hoops more than academics. If you're not a probable future NBA player, don't see why you'd undervalue the academic side of the equation.

sagegrouse
05-20-2017, 10:17 AM
On paper, Jeter was a prototypical Duke recruit: high potential athletically and academically, interested in playing on a national contender. Didn't work on, so he moved on to 'Zona. Bummer since it didn't work for both sides.

Reminds me more of Mike Chappell than Crawford Palmer or Michael Thompson. Duke's hoops/academic combo is unique, but some value hoops more than academics. If you're not a probable future NBA player, don't see why you'd undervalue the academic side of the equation.
Crawford Palmer wasn't a star at Duke when he transferred to Dartmouth. He played in Europe and, getting dual citizenship, won a silver medal with France in the 2000 Olympics.

Just checked his LinkedIn account:

Crawford Palmer
Teacher at Cours l'Olivier (CLC)
Sanary B.C./ Bandol B.C. Centre de Droit et Economie du Sport - Université de Limoges
Marseille Area, France 308 308 connections
South of France -- teacher and youth basketball coach.

Troublemaker
05-20-2017, 10:27 AM
A miss on Bolden (or not recruiting him to begin with) would not have hurt Duke at all and probably would have kept Jeter not only for next year but the following year as well when he could be a senior leader while Bolden is hoping reset to be two and done.

While I agree that Duke recruited over Jeter with Bolden, there's no reason to believe Jeter would still be here if Bolden wasn't recruited. It's not like Marques received a ton of minutes last season (and in fact, depending on whom you believe, may have considered transferring himself due to the lack of PT), and there's still the problem that Chase often looked off-balance and clumsy when he was on the court the past two seasons. So, there was more going on than just Duke-recruited-Bolden-leading-to-Jeter's-transfer. Chase's play never rose to the point where he could be any more than a backup, which I'm sure disappointed him, especially considering his high school teammates Stephen Zimmerman and Zach Collins are in the NBA and about to become a lottery pick, respectively.

Moreover, it's quite possible Marques will be a 3-yr-player. I know it's his intention to be two-and-done, but that depends on whether he's good enough. I HOPE he is because Duke will have a much better season if so. Incidentally, I'm sure it was Chase's intention to be gone in 1 or 2 years as well, considering his ranking. But it didn't work out for Chase because of a combination of not being good enough and having too much competition for minutes.

All of which is to say that it's hard to predict what will happen with players ranked 11-20, which both Chase and Marques were. Trent is in that situation this year. I could see him being OAD but I could see him staying 2 years as well. In the end, we root for the players that are in Duke uniforms. Chase decided to move on, and Marques is still here and it's time to put our support behind him and not play a "what-if" game that probably isn't going to be answered accurately, anyway.



Parrish said recruiting 2 potential OAD players and 2 or 3 guys ranked 25-75 each year might be a better strategy than trying to reload the whole roster each year. Makes sense to me.

I have no reason to believe that Duke wants to reload completely every year. This is a relatively recent phenomenon that should re-stabilize in a couple of recruiting cycles.

jimsumner
05-20-2017, 12:59 PM
On paper, Jeter was a prototypical Duke recruit: high potential athletically and academically, interested in playing on a national contender. Didn't work on, so he moved on to 'Zona. Bummer since it didn't work for both sides.

Reminds me more of Mike Chappell than Crawford Palmer or Michael Thompson. Duke's hoops/academic combo is unique, but some value hoops more than academics. If you're not a probable future NBA player, don't see why you'd undervalue the academic side of the equation.

Actually, Chappell, Palmer and Jeter are quite similar in that all three got a lot of PT at one point in their Duke careers but dropped in the rotation due to general ineffectiveness. All three had legitimate chances to carve out a permanent spot in the rotation and all three fell short.

Thompson, on the other hand, played sparingly at Duke. Had he stuck around, he would have had opportunities in 2015 and 2016. Of course, he had medical issues at Northwestern and there's no reason to believe they would not have surfaced at Duke.

DangerDevil
05-20-2017, 01:44 PM
I don't understand the concept of being recruited over, especially from year to year.

Duke Basketball and our players are the best of the best, Division One basketball. We aren't talking about intramurals or rec league basketball. Nothing is given and everything is a competition. I don't think Coach K plays favorites or does anything unfair. To the contrary he has lost recruits based on the fact that he is honest about the fact that he won't make guarantees. He has an idea of what is going to give his team the best chance to win (we might not agree completely but his track record is hard to argue against) and assigns playing time accordingly. Every year the expectation should be that the team will get better and the competition more intense. Part of that improvement is existing players will get better but another component is bringing in better players.

Chase seems like a great person and everything one would want in a student athlete that represented Duke. I am sorry to see him go, not only because he represented our team well but think he could have helped us on the court.

I don't know and don't think anyone else on this board knows why Chase transferred. Hypothetically, if he transferred because didn't think he could beat out the competition and subsequently get playing time, then he should have transferred.

I hope Chase succeeds at Arizona, even if he does that doesn't mean Coach K messed anything up or that a deeper rotation would have changed this outcome.

sagegrouse
05-20-2017, 02:31 PM
I don't understand the concept of being recruited over, especially from year to year.

Duke Basketball and our players are the best of the best, Division One basketball. We aren't talking about intramurals or rec league basketball. Nothing is given and everything is a competition. I don't think Coach K plays favorites or does anything unfair. To the contrary he has lost recruits based on the fact that he is honest about the fact that he won't make guarantees. He has an idea of what is going to give his team the best chance to win (we might not agree completely but his track record is hard to argue against) and assigns playing time accordingly. Every year the expectation should be that the team will get better and the competition more intense. Part of that improvement is existing players will get better but another component is bringing in better players.

Chase seems like a great person and everything one would want in a student athlete that represented Duke. I am sorry to see him go, not only because he represented our team well but think he could have helped us on the court.

I don't know and don't think anyone else on this board knows why Chase transferred. Hypothetically, if he transferred because didn't think he could beat out the competition and subsequently get playing time, then he should have transferred.

I hope Chase succeeds at Arizona, even if he does that doesn't mean Coach K messed anything up or that a deeper rotation would have changed this outcome.

Here's my beef, and it is strictly second-guessing. We wasted a scholarship on Harry Giles; we got almost nothing from him, and he was sure to leave, even if he never played a minute. Moreover, we ended up sitting two good players, Bolden and Jeter, and we were lucky we didn't lose both.

The recruitment of O'Connell and Goldwire, both likely to play four years, show that K is tweaking his recruiting strategy so that we are not totally focused on players likely to leave after only a year or two.

CDu
05-20-2017, 03:01 PM
Here's my beef, and it is strictly second-guessing. We wasted a scholarship on Harry Giles; we got almost nothing from him, and he was sure to leave, even if he never played a minute. Moreover, we ended up sitting two good players, Bolden and Jeter, and we were lucky we didn't lose both.

The recruitment of O'Connell and Goldwire, both likely to play four years, show that K is tweaking his recruiting strategy so that we are not totally focused on players likely to leave after only a year or two.

Yeah, a few points:

1. When we got Giles, Jefferson was a senior and thus not expected to be back; and
2. They didn't anticipate Giles' summer scope of his "good" knee, nor that he would be a shell of himself all season.

I think one could make an argument that Bolden wasn't necessary (debatable, but at least reasonable). But no way they were going to pass on Giles back in the Fall/Winter of 2015/16.

cato
05-20-2017, 03:03 PM
Crawford Palmer wasn't a star at Duke when he transferred to Dartmouth. He played in Europe and, getting dual citizenship, won a silver medal with France in the 2000 Olympics.

Just checked his LinkedIn account:
South of France -- teacher and youth basketball coach.

Sounds like an outstanding success to me.

golfinesquire
05-20-2017, 06:57 PM
Actually, Chappell, Palmer and Jeter are quite similar in that all three got a lot of PT at one point in their Duke careers but dropped in the rotation due to general ineffectiveness. All three had legitimate chances to carve out a permanent spot in the rotation and all three fell short.

Thompson, on the other hand, played sparingly at Duke. Had he stuck around, he would have had opportunities in 2015 and 2016. Of course, he had medical issues at Northwestern and there's no reason to believe they would not have surfaced at Duke.

Jim, I think you have your dates wrong with Thompson.

Olympic Fan
05-20-2017, 08:00 PM
Jim, I think you have your dates wrong with Thompson.

Michael Thompson was part of the 2002 Duke recruiting class. He was one of four McDonald's All-Americans in the class, along with J.J. Redick, Shavlik Randolph and Sean Dockery. Shelden Williams was the highest rated player in the class, but missed his senior year and thus didn't make the McDonald's All-America team. Lee Melchionni was also a member of the class, although due to some bizarre (and soon to be repealed) NCAA rules, he had to pay his own way as a freshman.

Thompson played 59 total minutes (in 16 games) as a freshman. He has at least one significant contribution -- in Duke's second round NCAA game vs. Central Michigan, he went in and gave the Devils 10 solid minutes of defense against future NBA big man Chris Kaman (after Casey Sanders fouled out).

The next year, he played a total of just 11 minutes in three games before transferring at midseason. He went Northwestern were he played before heart irregularities forced him to give up basketball in early December, 2005. I'm sure Jim meant to say he would have had opportunities in 2005 and 2006 (not 2015 and 2016) -- but as Jim also guesses, his health issues probably would have made that unlikely.

Not sure, but I was told that Thompson graduated from Northwestern and was in the MBA program at Notre Dame.

jimsumner
05-20-2017, 08:30 PM
Jim, I think you have your dates wrong with Thompson.

Yep. 2005 and 2006. Glitch in the Machine. Dog ate my homework.

Around the same time, Northwestern had a 5-10 point guard also named Michael Thompson. I wonder if he was/is the guy in the MBA program at ND.

devildeac
05-20-2017, 10:09 PM
Yep. 2005 and 2006. Glitch in the Machine. Dog ate my homework.

Around the same time, Northwestern had a 5-10 point guard also named Michael Thompson. I wonder if he was/is the guy in the MBA program at ND.

Did you mean Ghost in the Machine?

Not that anyone is trying to Police your posts or anything like that.:rolleyes:;)

OldPhiKap
05-20-2017, 10:20 PM
Did you mean Ghost in the Machine?

Not that anyone is trying to Police your posts or anything like that.:rolleyes:;)

Every post you make,
Every fact you state,
He'll be watching you.

And that's just damn creepy.

Olympic Fan
05-20-2017, 11:17 PM
Yep. 2005 and 2006. Glitch in the Machine. Dog ate my homework.

Around the same time, Northwestern had a 5-10 point guard also named Michael Thompson. I wonder if he was/is the guy in the MBA program at ND.

Pretty sure it's the Duke transfer. The "other" Michael Thompson -- nicknamed Juice -- was at Northwestern just after Duke's Michael Thompson. His first year was 2007-08. He graduated in 2011 and he's been playing overseas ever since.

Green Wave Dukie
05-21-2017, 05:47 AM
Every post you make,
Every fact you state,
He'll be watching you.

And that's just damn creepy.

If you can't get online, just send your message in a bottle

Indoor66
05-21-2017, 06:44 AM
If you can't get online, just send your message in a bottle

Actually, that is Time in a Bottle (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dO1rMeYnOmM).

Green Wave Dukie
05-21-2017, 07:29 AM
Actually, that is Time in a Bottle (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dO1rMeYnOmM).

I thought we were talking about the Police

https://youtu.be/MbXWrmQW-OE