Thread For Only Tracking Early Entry & Transfers (Formerly ACC Roster Moves)

[Olympic Fan]

Moderator Note- Please honor the request to use this thread to report and track early entries, transfers, other roster moves, and please stay on topic (That means you too Newton_14). I am to blame for causing the original thread started by Troublemaker to go off track. Hopefully this thread will stay on topic and folks can come in the thread and easily find updates on who's going, who's staying, etc.

Thanks

The mods can stifle this is they want, but it really bugs me that the thread that I thought was set up to track players declaring for the draft has devolved into another debate as to the merits of the draft and the philosophy of early entry. Actual draft news is buried.

No problem with debating the merits of the draft and early entry thread, but can we please have a place to track actual news of early entry ACC players -- and players who announce that they are staying? I thought we could do that here, along with noting transfers in and out. There have been and will lot of those.

To catch up, we have the following ACC players declaring for the draft:

Tyler Lydon, Syracuse -- will hire agent
Omar Yurtseven, NC State -- will not hire agent and could return
Austin Nichols, Virginia -- will hire agent

As for transfers, the only one I thought I knew about was Michael Gilmore, a 6-8 transfer from VCU to Miami. But he was booted from the Miami program in January

Any that I missed?

As for draft speculation, you might be interested in this free article from the ACC Sports Journal. But take it FWIW, it's just the Sports Journal (the old Poop Sheet) and it no longer contains anybody with any inside info):

https://accsports.com/acc-news/accnba-draft-file/?mc_cid=c2a2bd60e7&mc_eid=14ed22ef88

[Troublemaker]

Yeah we may need the mods to re-title the threads. I'm okay with starting fresh with your thread since the other one got side-tracked.

However, I am also interested in what happens to Kentucky, Kansas, Arizona, etc. so hopefully we don't have to limit it to just the ACC.

[DinoDuke]

Agreed, i saw that it was like 2 pages already and thought "wow, that's a lot of people leaving early". Was very disappointed when only the first few posts were actually on topic.

[CDu]

Per Duke, Tatum to the pros.

[DinoDuke]

Per Duke, Tatum to the pros.

Well, there it is.

[Olympic Fan]

No word in the official release as to whether or not he hires an agent, but I think it's most unlikely that he doesn't. He's gone.

Tatum's statement from the official release:

“I’m excited to take the next step in pursuing my lifelong dream of playing basketball at the highest possible level,” Tatum said. “With that said, I’ve loved my time at Duke. The Brotherhood is a real thing and I’ll always be part of the bond between former, current and future Duke players. I want to thank my teammates, coaches, family and friends for the unwavering support I’ve received as I pursue my dream.”

[CDu]

No word in the official release as to whether or not he hires an agent, but I think it's most unlikely that he doesn't. He's gone.

Tatum's statement from the official release:

“I’m excited to take the next step in pursuing my lifelong dream of playing basketball at the highest possible level,” Tatum said. “With that said, I’ve loved my time at Duke. The Brotherhood is a real thing and I’ll always be part of the bond between former, current and future Duke players. I want to thank my teammates, coaches, family and friends for the unwavering support I’ve received as I pursue my dream.”

Yeah, Duke doesn't typically do an announcement like this unless the guy is gone. Frankly, I don't even think we've had a player "test the waters" and come back. When players have gone, they've declared and not looked back. When players have stayed, they've said they were staying and didn't do the "waters testing."

When Duke makes an announcement, it's pretty much always been a final decision.

[uh_no]

Yeah, Duke doesn't typically do an announcement like this unless the guy is gone. Frankly, I don't even think we've had a player "test the waters" and come back. When players have gone, they've declared and not looked back. When players have stayed, they've said they were staying and didn't do the "waters testing."

When Duke makes an announcement, it's pretty much always been a final decision.

well, to be fair, the testing the waters thing has only been feasible for the last few years, and over that time, most of our players have been squarely in the "gone" or "not gone" camp. The only one I can think of that may have been in the middle was Grayson last year.

[CDu]

well, to be fair, the testing the waters thing has only been feasible for the last few years, and over that time, most of our players have been squarely in the "gone" or "not gone" camp. The only one I can think of that may have been in the middle was Grayson last year.

Technically, testing the waters has been an option for quite a while. There was a stretch where the NCAA made it virtually impossible to actually test the waters. But that has been relaxed again more recently. But we've had some guys who - in years past - could have tested and come back. I'm talking more like 8-12 years ago. And those guys didn't do it. Or at least they didn't announce it.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

The mods can stifle this is they want, but it really bugs me that the thread that I thought was set up to track players declaring for the draft has devolved into another debate as to the merits of the draft and the philosophy of early entry. Actual draft news is buried.

No problem with debating the merits of the draft and early entry thread, but can we please have a place to track actual news of early entry ACC players -- and players who announce that they are staying? I thought we could do that here, along with noting transfers in and out. There have been and will lot of those.

To catch up, we have the following ACC players declaring for the draft:

Tyler Lydon, Syracuse -- will hire agent
Omar Yurtseven, NC State -- will not hire agent and could return
Austin Nichols, Virginia -- will hire agent

As for transfers, the only one I thought I knew about was Michael Gilmore, a 6-8 transfer from VCU to Miami. But he was booted from the Miami program in January

Any that I missed?

As for draft speculation, you might be interested in this free article from the ACC Sports Journal. But take it FWIW, it's just the Sports Journal (the old Poop Sheet) and it no longer contains anybody with any inside info):

https://accsports.com/acc-news/accnba-draft-file/?mc_cid=c2a2bd60e7&mc_eid=14ed22ef88

Thanks for the update and I agree that we should have a "Roster Moves - Announcements" thread and a "Roster Moves - Commentary" thread so those of us who just want a quick fix can get it. I love reading people's thoughts and analysis but there are only so many hours in a day...

[English]

It's too bad the other thread was hijacked because posting updates in both is the worst...

Per Evan Daniels and multiple sources, John Collins will test the high seas without hiring an agent.

Also, per Quick Rick Pitino, Deng Adel, Jaylen Johnson, & Donovan Mitchell will test the waters without an agent.

[jhmoss1812]

UVA losing Shayok and Reuter to transfer as well as Perrantes graduating.

[pfrduke]

UVA losing Shayok and Reuter to transfer as well as Perrantes graduating.

Were the transfers expected or unexpected? Shayok seemed like a long-term program guy and while he struggled this season, I had assumed he would have a reasonably large role as a senior. But I don't follow the UVA program that closely.

[CDu]

UVA losing Shayok and Reuter to transfer as well as Perrantes graduating.

Shayok? Wow, that seems surprising. He seemed to be a big part of the offense. Was it scheme related? Were there concerns about upcoming/incoming players?

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Were the transfers expected or unexpected? Shayok seemed like a long-term program guy and while he struggled this season, I had assumed he would have a reasonably large role as a senior. But I don't follow the UVA program that closely.

I thought UVa was the 4 year program we needed to retool to emulate?

[MCFinARL]

Technically, testing the waters has been an option for quite a while. There was a stretch where the NCAA made it virtually impossible to actually test the waters. But that has been relaxed again more recently. But we've had some guys who - in years past - could have tested and come back. I'm talking more like 8-12 years ago. And those guys didn't do it. Or at least they didn't announce it.

This is interesting. I feel like this year we have a couple of players who might really benefit from testing the waters, and might decide to come back afterwards. But if they do that, maybe we won't actually know about it, at least officially (unless they actually go to the draft camp).

As I write, though, I realize that this is not actually news about players' plans. So my bad.

Re Tatum signing an agent, interestingly, CBS Sports (http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/dukes-jayson-tatum-declares-for-nba-draft-will-sign-with-an-agent/) reported he was planning to--but their source was the Duke statement (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_LANG=C&ATCLID=211530832&DB_OEM_ID=4200) that doesn't say anything about signing an agent. That being said, the statement is clearer than clear that there is nothing tentative about Jayson's decision.

[jhmoss1812]

Were the transfers expected or unexpected? Shayok seemed like a long-term program guy and while he struggled this season, I had assumed he would have a reasonably large role as a senior. But I don't follow the UVA program that closely.


Shayok? Wow, that seems surprising. He seemed to be a big part of the offense. Was it scheme related? Were there concerns about upcoming/incoming players?

Reuter was expected. Solid post moves but completely outmatched by ACC level bigs. Could see him being a good player at a mid-major program.

Shayok was surprising to me. From what I hear, he should be graduating this year (despite being a junior) so he should be eligible for a grad transfer. Shayok has a nice offensive game but was wildly inconsistent. I have no idea why he's leaving but it would not surprise me if he was frustrated by the system. I've also heard that DeAndre Hunter and Jay Huff are going to be really good after redshirting so maybe he was worried about losing some minutes. Definitely a big loss for us though. Hopefully, we can find some solid transfers and really make a big splash in the 2018 class.

[tbyers11]

Were the transfers expected or unexpected? Shayok seemed like a long-term program guy and while he struggled this season, I had assumed he would have a reasonably large role as a senior. But I don't follow the UVA program that closely.

Shayok is surprising to me. As far as I can tell he is not a redshirt junior. Unless he has put in some serious work at Mr Jefferson's University graduate transfer doesn't appear to be an option.

EDIT: While typing this jhmoss1812 updated that Shayok could be a grad transfer. That makes sense to me that he may want to showcase his skills in a more uptempo offensive system

[Edouble]

Reuter was expected. Solid post moves but completely outmatched by ACC level bigs. Could see him being a good player at a mid-major program.

Shayok was surprising to me. From what I hear, he should be graduating this year (despite being a junior) so he should be eligible for a grad transfer. Shayok has a nice offensive game but was wildly inconsistent. I have no idea why he's leaving but it would not surprise me if he was frustrated by the system. I've also heard that DeAndre Hunter and Jay Huff are going to be really good after redshirting so maybe he was worried about losing some minutes. Definitely a big loss for us though. Hopefully, we can find some solid transfers and really make a big splash in the 2018 class.

"Over a five-game stretch beginning with UVA’s 70-55 win at N.C. State on Feb. 25, Shayok logged a total of 54 minutes, as Guy and Jerome got starts in Bennett’s four-guard lineup.”

http://augustafreepress.com/shayok-reuter-leaving-uva-mens-basketball-program/

Shayock may have seen the writing on the wall.

[Olympic Fan]

I posted this in another thread, but it's the best site I've found so far to track early entries:

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2017/03/2017-nba-draft-early-entrants-list.html

I checked just a few minutes ago and it seems to be keeping up with today's news -- Bacon, Collins, Adel, Mitchell and Jaylen Johnson

[Wahoo2000]

"Over a five-game stretch beginning with UVA’s 70-55 win at N.C. State on Feb. 25, Shayok logged a total of 54 minutes, as Guy and Jerome got starts in Bennett’s four-guard lineup.”

http://augustafreepress.com/shayok-reuter-leaving-uva-mens-basketball-program/

Shayock may have seen the writing on the wall.

This was almost absolutely the answer. Some of our fans are kind of jumping to conclusions that Shayok's transfer means redshirt DeAndre Hunter must really be looking great.

More likely, Shayok saw Jerome and Guy moving ahead of him in the rotation, with Hall already solidly in front. Competition from Thompson as well (and Hunter joining the fray next year may be a minor factor). Just a little too much of a squeeze for his taste, I believe. I think anything short of MASSIVE offseason improvement probably would have left him as 7th/8th man and likely a role player. Probably wants to move to a system he feels he can be one of the top options for. He definitely has a knack for scoring, which we need, but his preferred shot is the contested long 2 - a shot I loathe. He's a good kid though, and if he did graduate in 3 years, a good student too. Best of luck to him (and Reuter, who could really flourish in a minor conference where he's not totally outmatched physically).

[duketaylor]

This was almost absolutely the answer. Some of our fans are kind of jumping to conclusions that Shayok's transfer means redshirt DeAndre Hunter must really be looking great.

More likely, Shayok saw Jerome and Guy moving ahead of him in the rotation, with Hall already solidly in front. Competition from Thompson as well (and Hunter joining the fray next year may be a minor factor). Just a little too much of a squeeze for his taste, I believe. I think anything short of MASSIVE offseason improvement probably would have left him as 7th/8th man and likely a role player. Probably wants to move to a system he feels he can be one of the top options for. He definitely has a knack for scoring, which we need, but his preferred shot is the contested long 2 - a shot I loathe. He's a good kid though, and if he did graduate in 3 years, a good student too. Best of luck to him (and Reuter, who could really flourish in a minor conference where he's not totally outmatched physically).

Wahoo, how about Nichols declaring today? I'm in Richmond and follow UVA plenty-he's been a mess. Thoughts?

[gofurman]

If Jackson leaves UNC then Kennedy Meeks and I. Hicks and Nate Britt all graduate... That leaves Joel Berry, Theo Pinson, Seventh Woods, Kenny Wjilliams, Tony Bradley, Luke Maye - did I miss anyone that is returning for them??

[Newton_14]

If Jackson leaves UNC then Meeks and Hicks graduate... That leaves Berry, Britt, Pinson, seventh Woods

I thought Britt was a Sr too but may be misremembering that. Luke Maye is a Jr who will for sure be back. If Jackson stays another year then Ol Roy skates by yet one more season. If Jackson and Hicks, and heck Berry too had gone after last season like happens with every other college team on the planet, they would have sucked this year and next. We just aren't that fortunate it seems.

If the pattern and our luck continues, all of the cheat underclassmen will return and they will have a good team yet again which sucks.

[Wahoo2000]

Wahoo, how about Nichols declaring today? I'm in Richmond and follow UVA plenty-he's been a mess. Thoughts?

Hard for me to even think of Nichols as a UVa guy - played 1 game, and let the team and program down in a huge way. Given that he's only played about 25 minutes of organized, competitive basketball in 2 years, and has had the off-the-court issues he's had, I can't see any way in H-E-double-hockey-sticks an NBA team would go anywhere near him.

That said, not sure transferring again was an option, and it seems he either was unwelcome or unable to take the steps necessary to rejoin the team. Hope he gets himself straightened out, and has a nice career overseas. Probably a best-case scenario for Austin.

[gofurman]

If Jackson leaves UNC then Kennedy Meeks and I. Hicks and Nate Britt all graduate...

That leaves Joel Berry, Theo Pinson, Seventh Woods, Kenny Wjilliams, Tony Bradley, Luke Maye - did I miss anyone that is returning for them? And freshman coming in. I'll take that though Berry is a great PG and the other guys will improve. Go Justin go.

EDIT. Corrected w Britt graduating too

[Newton_14]

EDIT. Corrected w Britt graduating too

OK I was right then. Thanks for that.

[BD80]

And don't forget, the NBA guys are very interested in Bradley ... Chad Ford projects him going 15-20 in the first round if he declares.

...

If he declares THIS year.

Give him a year or two more of development under ol' roy, and he should be in the 25-30 range. Maybe even a second rounder

[luburch]

Guys, should probably stick to focusing on who is putting their name in the draft or transferring in this thread. Already closed another one because it got off track :)

[English]

Perhaps news of no news, but UVa's Kyle Guy has reaffirmed that he's happy in Whoville and won't transfer.

[JTH]

Tweeted today by Adam Rowe.

[arnie]

Tweeted today by Adam Rowe.

Another casualty due to OAD influx.

[Wahoo2000]

Perhaps news of no news, but UVa's Kyle Guy has reaffirmed that he's happy in Whoville and won't transfer.

Rumor swirling today though that Darius Thompson may be looking into a grad transfer (he's a RS Jr that transfered to us from Tennessee).

Starting to look like Bennett's exit interviews with Shayok and Thompson basically let them know they've fallen behind Guy and Jerome. With Hall locked into one major perimeter role, those guys were going to be fighting for scrap minutes on wings.

We went from NO scholarships available for 2017 in November to maybe having 4 open later today - without one guy projected to be drafted. The transfer rate (across all of college bb) is just getting nuts.

[Olympic Fan]

Will the moderators please, PLEASE break the debate about the UNC program out into a separate thread.

I started this thread because the last one that was set up to track guys leaving for the draft was hijacked by a philosophical debate about the merits of early entry.

The title of this thread was for "ONLY Tracking Early Entries and Transfers"

Now it's overrun by the debate over the UNC program. I'm not saying that doesn't have a place, but NOT in this thread!

Please leave us a place where we can keep track of the comings and goings on ACC rosters heading into next season.

[CDu]

Will the moderators please, PLEASE break the debate about the UNC program out into a separate thread.

I started this thread because the last one that was set up to track guys leaving for the draft was hijacked by a philosophical debate about the merits of early entry.

The title of this thread was for "ONLY Tracking Early Entries and Transfers"

Now it's overrun by the debate over the UNC program. I'm not saying that doesn't have a place, but NOT in this thread!

Please leave us a place where we can keep track of the comings and goings on ACC rosters heading into next season.

My apologies for contributing to the threadjack. Ima stop that, at least in this thread.


Rumor swirling today though that Darius Thompson may be looking into a grad transfer (he's a RS Jr that transfered to us from Tennessee).

Starting to look like Bennett's exit interviews with Shayok and Thompson basically let them know they've fallen behind Guy and Jerome. With Hall locked into one major perimeter role, those guys were going to be fighting for scrap minutes on wings.

We went from NO scholarships available for 2017 in November to maybe having 4 open later today - without one guy projected to be drafted. The transfer rate (across all of college bb) is just getting nuts.

That would be quite the loss for UVa. It seems that even the UVa model (get lesser-rated recruits but keep them for four years) isn't a sure-fire path, as not everyone wants to be a reserve in their junior and senior seasons.

It is just really hard to keep players in a reserve role for multiple years in this day and age. Kids know that they have opportunities, and aren't afraid to transfer. I think some of it is that so many games are televised now that kids don't feel handcuffed to wait their turn at a big-time program. And with the one-and-done era diluting talent at the top, more next-tier programs are competitive, so it isn't like they lose opportunity for success by transferring.

It would be sad for UVa to lose both Shayok and Thompson. Hopefully the young guys are able to step up in their places.

[Troublemaker]

Darius Thompson indeed will transfer (http://www.streakingthelawn.com/2017/3/23/15035492/darius-thompson-transfer-virginia-cavaliers-basketball-marial-shayok-jarred-reuter-tony-bennett) like Shayok and Reuter

UVA may have over-recruited the perimeter like Duke over-recruited with bigs this year.

Starting Jerome and Guy next year IS the right move, though, for an offensively-challenged team.

[jhmoss1812]

Darius Thompson indeed will transfer (http://www.streakingthelawn.com/2017/3/23/15035492/darius-thompson-transfer-virginia-cavaliers-basketball-marial-shayok-jarred-reuter-tony-bennett) like Shayok and Reuter

UVA may have over-recruited the perimeter like Duke over-recruited with bigs this year.

Starting Jerome and Guy next year IS the right move, though, for an offensively-challenged team.

Definitely tough losses for us but I think both guys saw the writing on the wall. Their minutes were going to be limited as they were getting passed over by the younger guys. Plus, Hunter and Huff (both top 60 recruits) are coming off their redshirts. Shayok and Thompson were our 2 least efficient players on the offensive end so hopefully the new guys will bring more to the court. What makes sense for them is that they will both graduate this year so they will be eligible for grad transfers and won't have to sit out a year. Going into this year, we thought we would only have 1 open scholarship for 2017 (which we filled with Marco Anthony). With the dismissal of Nichols and the 3 transfers, we now have 4 open scholarships lol. I guess that could be a good thing for us.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Definitely tough losses for us but I think both guys saw the writing on the wall. Their minutes were going to be limited as they were getting passed over by the younger guys. Plus, Hunter and Huff (both top 60 recruits) are coming off their redshirts. Shayok and Thompson were our 2 least efficient players on the offensive end so hopefully the new guys will bring more to the court. What makes sense for them is that they will both graduate this year so they will be eligible for grad transfers and won't have to sit out a year. Going into this year, we thought we would only have 1 open scholarship for 2017 (which we filled with Marco Anthony). With the dismissal of Nichols and the 3 transfers, we now have 4 open scholarships lol. I guess that could be a good thing for us.

UVa and Duke have a lot in common this year.

[rasputin]

UVa and Duke have a lot in common this year.

You mean, like, being REAL colleges?

[English]

UWash sophomore forward Noah Dickerson transferring. Averaged 12.5PPG, 8.2RPG.

He was the #75 RSCI recruit in Class of 2015.

[ChillinDuke]

So is this thread ACC only? It started ACC only, I think, but then the other thread was closed. You all are so confusing, you know that? :rolleyes:

Anyway, did anyone see Semi is "testing"? Per Zags. (https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2017/03/semi-ojeleye-to-test-2017-nba-draft-waters.html)

- Chillin

[gam7]

So is this thread ACC only? It started ACC only, I think, but then the other thread was closed. You all are so confusing, you know that? :rolleyes:

Anyway, did anyone see Semi is "testing"? Per Zags. (https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2017/03/semi-ojeleye-to-test-2017-nba-draft-waters.html)

- Chillin

I am confused too. ACC roster moves? ACC early entries? NCAA early entries?

Well, this qualifies for all of them: XRM is definitely gone (https://twitter.com/xrm_22). Early entry.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

I am confused too. ACC roster moves? ACC early entries? NCAA early entries?

Well, this qualifies for all of them: XRM is definitely gone (https://twitter.com/xrm_22). Early entry.

I think this thread is (or should be) about all transfers and early entries, both ACC and otherwise. But it should essentially be a running list and nothing else. Pages and pages of analysis, roster hypotheticals, etc. should probably be done elsewhere so that this thread can stay focused and relatively concise. At least that's my two cents...

[Olympic Fan]

Just to update what we know:

Early entries (* not expected to withdraw)

*Jayson Tatum, Duke
*Dwayne Bacon, FSU
*Xavier Rathan-Mayes, FSU
"Tyler Lydon, Syracuse
John Collins, Wake Forest
Donovan Mitchell, Louisville
Deng Adel, Louisville
Jaylen Johnson, Louisville
Omer Yurtseven, N.C. State
*Austin Nichols, Virginia

Expected to announce soon:
*Harry Giles, Duke
*Dennis Smith, N.C. State
*Jonathan Isaac, FSU

Transfers out:
Chase Jeter, Duke
Mariol Shayok, Virginia
Darius Thompson Virginia
Jarred Reuter, Virginia
Damon Wilson, Pittsburgh

Transfers in:
none so far

I found this site to track transfers:

http://www.verbalcommits.com/transfers/2017

[Olympic Fan]

Real small addition to the transfer list -- Greg McClinton of Wake Forest is looking for a new school to play his senior year.

McClinton is the last player left from the Jeff Bzdelik era. He was a very marginal player for the Deacs last season.

[CDu]

Real small addition to the transfer list -- Greg McClinton of Wake Forest is looking for a new school to play his senior year.

McClinton is the last player left from the Jeff Bzdelik era. He was a very marginal player for the Deacs last season.

Yeah, a mid-major talent stuck on a power-5 school's roster.

When Wake really stunk, McClinton got PT. When Wake got better, McClinton faded to the bench.

[Olympic Fan]

Not unexpected, but a big one -- FSU freshman Jonathan Isaac says goodbye to the 'Noles:

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18994129/florida-state-seminoles-freshman-jonathan-isaac-enter-nba-draft

[sagegrouse]

I think this thread is (or should be) about all transfers and early entries, both ACC and otherwise. But it should essentially be a running list and nothing else. Pages and pages of analysis, roster hypotheticals, etc. should probably be done elsewhere so that this thread can stay focused and relatively concise. At least that's my two cents...

I wonder whether epistemological questions on a sports message board are ultimately meaningless.

[brevity]

That didn't take long.

Jeff Goodman (https://twitter.com/GoodmanESPN/status/845489717248348162)‏ @GoodmanESPN

Lonzo Ball just said that was his last game at UCLA.

9:17 PM - 24 Mar 2017

[grad_devil]

As most of us expected, Sean Obi to transfer:

https://twitter.com/JessikaMorgan/status/846726067251490816

[Troublemaker]

For those paranoid about Justin Jackson returning, Kevin Knox pretty much confirms that he's gone.

Per 247 Sports and Knox, UNC is recruiting Knox to replace Jackson. (http://duke.247sports.com/Bolt/Kevin-Knox-dishes-on-recruiting-at-McDonalds-All-American-Game-52008773)

[Newton_14]

For those paranoid about Justin Jackson returning, Kevin Knox pretty much confirms that he's gone.

Per 247 Sports and Knox, UNC is recruiting Knox to replace Jackson. (http://duke.247sports.com/Bolt/Kevin-Knox-dishes-on-recruiting-at-McDonalds-All-American-Game-52008773)

Knox is our best source by far lol!

[Spanarkel]

No surprise here.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19023190/north-carolina-state-wolfpack-pg-dennis-smith-jr-enter-nba-draft

[English]

Knox is our best source by far lol!

Also in the interview, Knox says that Duke is still waiting on NBA decisions from Allen & Kennard. He mentioned that Trent Jr. and Wendell Carter are constantly in his ear about coming to Duke.

The UK recruits are also trying to push Knox to Lexington, too.

This may or may not be a departure from his earlier decision target (week of April 10-16), but he mentioned he's aiming to make his decision after the Jordan Brand Classic (April 14) because that's his spring break and he'll have a week and a half to think about his options.

[Olympic Fan]

For those paranoid about Justin Jackson returning, Kevin Knox pretty much confirms that he's gone.

Per 247 Sports and Knox, UNC is recruiting Knox to replace Jackson. (http://duke.247sports.com/Bolt/Kevin-Knox-dishes-on-recruiting-at-McDonalds-All-American-Game-52008773)

While a freshman Knox would not be as good as a senior Jackson, I would rather see UNC keep Jackson than land Knox.

The point is that Roy has not landed a significant recruit (Bradley and Felton are borderline 5-star/4-star) since the scandal broke. He's missed top 10 in-state targets such as Ingram, Giles, Dennis Smith, Bam Adebaye. I want to see that futility continue,

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

While a freshman Knox would not be as good as a senior Jackson, I would rather see UNC keep Jackson than land Knox.

The point is that Roy has not landed a significant recruit (Bradley and Felton are borderline 5-star/4-star) since the scandal broke. He's missed top 10 in-state targets such as Ingram, Giles, Dennis Smith, Bam Adebaye. I want to see that futility continue,

Their "futility" is looking pretty attractive right about now, heading into their second straight final four. If JJ as a senior makes their team better, let's get him out of there.

[Troublemaker]

While a freshman Knox would not be as good as a senior Jackson, I would rather see UNC keep Jackson than land Knox.

We can have our cake and eat it, too, here -- no Jackson, no Knox for UNC.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

We can have our cake and eat it, too, here -- no Jackson, no Knox for UNC.

Now we're talking

[flyingdutchdevil]

We can have our cake and eat it, too, here -- no Jackson, no Knox for UNC.

Likely scenario, IMO. No way Jackson stays for his senior year. That's just criminal.

Knox going to UNC is more likely than Jackson staying. But a) with the NCAA investigation and b) Knox being the next in-line to Tatum/Ingram/Winslow/Parker, I like the chances that he DOESN'T go to UNC. Holy moly. Look at that list!

[BD80]

We can have our cake and eat it, too, here -- no Jackson, no Knox for UNC.

Only hard knocks for unc ...

[CDu]

Likely scenario, IMO. No way Jackson stays for his senior year. That's just criminal.

Knox going to UNC is more likely than Jackson staying. But a) with the NCAA investigation and b) Knox being the next in-line to Tatum/Ingram/Winslow/Parker, I like the chances that he DOESN'T go to UNC. Holy moly. Look at that list!

The only thing that has me hesitant about Knox is the timing of his decision, which will be in a few weeks. But, most seem to think he's going to Duke, so I'll trust them until it is proven otherwise.

But, yeah, I'm feeling better about Jackson leaving given Knox's quote.

[Olympic Fan]

Their "futility" is looking pretty attractive right about now, heading into their second straight final four. If JJ as a senior makes their team better, let's get him out of there.

we've been through this before ... Roy loaded up with five-star talent before the scandal broke -- Hicks, Pinson, Jackson, Berry ... Meeks was a solid four-star who stayed four years. Last year's team was led by two more four-stars who stayed four years (Paige and Johnson).

But the five stars are leaving one by one and Roy is replacing them with three stars ... and an occasional four star.

He's gotten good production from some marginal recruits -- Maye for one, Kenny Williams before he was hurt, but the core of this UNC Final Four team are players recruited before the scandal.

Now, if UNC loses Jackson (as we all expect) and doesn't land Knox (I think he's a longshot for them), they're looking at a lineup built around Pinson, Bradley (and even he is coveted by the NBA), Felton, Kenny Williams .. and Luke Maye?

If that is a Final Four team, I'll withdraw the word futility.

Roy has been able to delay the decline by holding onto his top recruits far longer than they would stay anywhere else. But unless he can reverse his recruiting "futility" that decline is coming ...

[CDu]

we've been through this before ... Roy loaded up with five-star talent before the scandal broke -- Hicks, Pinson, Jackson, Berry ... Meeks was a solid four-star who stayed four years. Last year's team was led by two more four-stars who stayed four years (Paige and Johnson).

But the five stars are leaving one by one and Roy is replacing them with three stars ... and an occasional four star.

He's gotten good production from some marginal recruits -- Maye for one, Kenny Williams before he was hurt, but the core of this UNC Final Four team are players recruited before the scandal.

Now, if UNC loses Jackson (as we all expect) and doesn't land Knox (I think he's a longshot for them), they're looking at a lineup built around Pinson, Bradley (and even he is coveted by the NBA), Felton, Kenny Williams .. and Luke Maye?

If that is a Final Four team, I'll withdraw the word futility.

Roy has been able to delay the decline by holding onto his top recruits far longer than they would stay anywhere else. But unless he can reverse his recruiting "futility" that decline is coming ...

You're missing Berry in your list above. But I agree - if they lose Jackson and don't get Knox, they are not a very likely threat for the Final Four. Even with two returning 4/5-star seniors and a 5-star sophomore.

[lotusland]

Now, if UNC loses Jackson (as we all expect) and doesn't land Knox (I think he's a longshot for them), they're looking at a lineup built around Pinson, Bradley (and even he is coveted by the NBA), Felton, Kenny Williams .. and Luke Maye?

If that is a Final Four team, I'll withdraw the word futility.


Joel Berry?

[Dukelogger]

Joel Berry?

JB will be back, and along with Seventh Woods providing depth their backcourt made up of Berry, Williams, Felton and Woods will be very good. The difference is frontcourt depth, which they need badly for their style of play. Luke Maye will have to be a starter and will be faced with much tougher matchups from the get go; give the guy credit where credit is due, but thats a totally different role for him. And Bradley will have to play 30+ minutes without foul trouble and with high motor that his role will require. I assume thats what they are selling on the recruiting trail, but if UNc doesn't control the boards they aren't an elite team.

[Troublemaker]

Jeff Borzello‏Verified account @jeffborzello (https://twitter.com/jeffborzello) 47m47 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/jeffborzello/status/846851024958599173)
Notre Dame sophomore Matt Ryan has received his release to explore transfer options, per the school.


Somewhat surprising with Beachem graduating.

[pfrduke]

Jeff Borzello‏Verified account @jeffborzello (https://twitter.com/jeffborzello) 47m47 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/jeffborzello/status/846851024958599173)
Notre Dame sophomore Matt Ryan has received his release to explore transfer options, per the school.


Somewhat surprising with Beachem graduating.

Notre Dame could be pretty thin next year. Farrell, Pflueger, Colson, and Geben isn't a bad starting core, and DJ Harvey should be good, but not a lot of bench

[jv001]

Too lazy to check and see if there was any mention of this: One of Baylor's guards is going to be a grad transfer next season. I'm sorry but I only caught the last of the announcement(channel surfing). I'm sure someone on this knowledgeable board will know his name. The only reason I'm even bringing this up is the possibility of losing both Grayson and Luke. GoDuke!

[dukefan_828]

Why would he declare? Not projected to be drafted..

[jv001]

Too lazy to check and see if there was any mention of this: One of Baylor's guards is going to be a grad transfer next season. I'm sorry but I only caught the last of the announcement(channel surfing). I'm sure someone on this knowledgeable board will know his name. The only reason I'm even bringing this up is the possibility of losing both Grayson and Luke. GoDuke!

Got over my laziness:
Al Freeman junior guard from Charlotte, NC is going the grad transfer route. His career is nothing to write home about but here are some of his stats:
He played in 99 games his 3 years at Baylor averaging 8.6 ppg. 2.6 rpg. His three point shooting percentage was .373% and he shot FTs at .814%.
As a Junior: 9.7ppg, 2.5rbg in 23.9 minutes per game.
Of course these stats say nothing about his defense. Not so sure he's what Coach K would be looking at unless he's an elite defender. But it's worth mentioning any way.

GoDuke!

[Nugget]

Got over my laziness:
Al Freeman junior guard from Charlotte, NC is going the grad transfer route. His career is nothing to write home about but here are some of his stats:
He played in 99 games his 3 years at Baylor averaging 8.6 ppg. 2.6 rpg. His three point shooting percentage was .373% and he shot FTs at .814%.
As a Junior: 9.7ppg, 2.5rbg in 23.9 minutes per game.
Of course these stats say nothing about his defense. Not so sure he's what Coach K would be looking at unless he's an elite defender. But it's worth mentioning any way.

GoDuke!

I'm confused about the grad transfer rules. Does Freeman have to go that route if he wants to play next year or could he stay and play at Baylor? It seems odd that a guy who played 24 MPG as a junior and would be slated to play as much or more next year with LeComte leaving would be looking to transfer out.

[Nugget]

I'm confused about the grad transfer rules. Does Freeman have to go that route if he wants to play next year or could he stay and play at Baylor? It seems odd that a guy who played 24 MPG as a junior and would be slated to play as much or more next year with LeComte leaving would be looking to transfer out.

Sorry, my mistake. For some reason, I had LeComte as a Senior this year, not a Junior.

[jv001]

I'm confused about the grad transfer rules. Does Freeman have to go that route if he wants to play next year or could he stay and play at Baylor? It seems odd that a guy who played 24 MPG as a junior and would be slated to play as much or more next year with LeComte leaving would be looking to transfer out.

I think he could stay at Baylor but the school announced he's leaving the program and will be eligible to play wherever he lands. GoDuke!

Freeman missed the first eight weeks of his freshmen year and redshirted due to a broken wrist. So, he was at Baylor 4 years but only played 3 seasons.

[English]

I'm confused about the grad transfer rules. Does Freeman have to go that route if he wants to play next year or could he stay and play at Baylor? It seems odd that a guy who played 24 MPG as a junior and would be slated to play as much or more next year with LeComte leaving would be looking to transfer out.

As long as he has eligibility remaining, which he clearly does if he's planning to grad transfer, he could certainly stay and play in Waco. I'd guess he's looking for a program that will feature him more, or has a style more suitable to his strengths. These kids transfer for any number of reasons--this is why it baffles me when folks suggest there shouldn't be any penalty for student-athletes transferring if coaches can leave whenever they want. But that's for another thread.

Technically, Al Freeman (and any grad transfer looking for immediate eligibility) needs to enroll in a course of study at his/her new school that isn't offered at his/her current school (in this case, Baylor). Not terribly difficult, but that's the reg.

ETA: The Ivy League doesn't acknowledge the grad transfer rule, and I'm not knowledgeable enough on each of the smaller conference's policies to know if there are others. The P5 conferences all honor the grad transfer rule.

[sagegrouse]

I'm confused about the grad transfer rules. Does Freeman have to go that route if he wants to play next year or could he stay and play at Baylor? It seems odd that a guy who played 24 MPG as a junior and would be slated to play as much or more next year with LeComte leaving would be looking to transfer out.

No, the "grad transfer route" adds to a player's options, which include staying at Baylor as a grad student and fourth-year player. Or, he could play elsewhere without sitting out a season.

[CDu]

No, the "grad transfer route" adds to a player's options, which include staying at Baylor as a grad student and fourth-year player. Or, he could play elsewhere without sitting out a season.

Yep. One has to look no further than Duke for examples of this:

Andre Dawkins: graduated in 2013, came back as a grad student for the 2014 season
Marshall Plumlee: graduated in 2015, came back as a grad student for the 2016 season
Amile Jefferson: graduated in 2016, came back as a grad student for the 2017 season
Sean Obi: graduates this spring, could have returned if he wanted to for next season

[English]

Melo Trimble to the NBA Draft, will hire an agent.

[gam7]

Edmond Sumner of Xavier is definitely entering the draft.

This is interesting because in mock drafts during the season, Sumner and Kennard appeared to be locked at the hip as late first rounders until Sumner tore his ACL a couple of months ago. He will not have recovered before the draft. His stock understandably has fallen and he isn't currently listed in draftexpress's 2017 mock draft. His medical exams with teams will be huge (like Harry's will be), but even if he checks out, he won't be a first rounder. Maybe a good, deep team that has time to wait for him to recover would take a chance here. My guess is he'll go in the second half of the second round.

[Furniture]

Melo Trimble to the NBA Draft, will hire an agent.

Just don't see him getting drafted!

[Cormac]

Ed Sumner is leaving my X-Men. I wish him well. He's a very intelligent kid (majoring in computer science), but I don't know how this is going to work out for him. He tore his ACL late in the year and he said he won't be ready until December or January. He argues that leaving now is better for him than coming back and playing the second semester next season. If he fully recovers, he has some upside (6'6" and athletic), but there are a lot of point guards in this draft that are above him. He represented the university well, and I do hope it works out for him!

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/college/xavier/2017/03/28/xaviers-edmond-sumner-announces-hes-entering-nba-draft/99734232/

*Edit*

Still waiting for Trevon Bluiett's decision. He had a great tournament, but he's not the most imposing athlete. I believe his game was often referred to as old man's game/YMCA game. Xavier's season could hinge on his decision.

[CDu]

Edmond Sumner of Xavier is definitely entering the draft.

This is interesting because in mock drafts during the season, Sumner and Kennard appeared to be locked at the hip as late first rounders until Sumner tore his ACL a couple of months ago. He will not have recovered before the draft. His stock understandably has fallen and he isn't currently listed in draftexpress's 2017 mock draft. His medical exams with teams will be huge (like Harry's will be), but even if he checks out, there is no way he can be seen as an equal with Kennard in this draft (except maybe with good, deep teams that have time to wait for him to recover. My guess is he'll go in the second half of the second round.

Well, the medical evals are going to be largely moot for Sumner. He'll be just a few months out from having had surgery. In May, he likely will just be starting to do straight-line jogging. He won't be cleared for basketball activities until the summer (i.e., after the draft).

The only thing they can check would be whether or not the surgery itself went fine, that the knee has a good "lock", and that he is healing appropriately (getting strength and range of motion back).

With Giles, the physical evaluations WILL be critical. He'll be about 18 months removed from his last ACL repair, and more than 8 months removed from his minor cleanup procedure. So his knees and athleticism should be as strong as we can expect them to be. If they are not, then that is a bad sign.

With Giles, I think the issue is less about the physical and more about the timing and psychological aspects. It takes time to shake off the rust, and it takes time to regain your confidence in your knees.

[Olympic Fan]

Update as of 6 p.m. March 29:

ACC early entries:
Jayson Tatum, Duke
Harry Giles, Duke
Dwayne Bacon, FSU
Jonathan Isaac, FSU
Xavier Rathan-Mayes, FSU
Dennis Smith, NC State
Omer Yurtseven, NC State
Tyler Lydon, Syracuse
Donovan Mitchell, Louisville
Jaylen Johnson, Louisville
Deng Adel, Louisville
John Collins, Wake Forest
Austin Nichols, Virginia

Still waiting for:
Justin Jackson, UNC
Grayson Allen, Duke
Luke Kennard, Duke
Marcus Bolden, Duke
Bonzie Colson, Notre Dame

Transfers out:
Rashad Muhammad, Miami
Michael Gilmore, Miami
Corey Manigault, Pitt
Damon Wilson, Pitt
Chase Jeter, Duke
Sean Obi, Duke
Marial Shayok, Virginia
Darius Thompson, Virginia
Jarrad Reuter, Virginia
Matt Ryan, Notre Dame
Greg McCinton, Wake Forest
Ty Graves, Boston College

Still no transfers in, so far.

[dukefan_828]

Why would he declare? Not projected to be drafted..

I want answers!!!!:cool:

[English]

Update as of 6 p.m. March 29:

ACC early entries:
Jayson Tatum, Duke
Harry Giles, Duke
Dwayne Bacon, FSU
Jonathan Isaac, FSU
Xavier Rathan-Mayes, FSU
Dennis Smith, NC State
Omer Yurtseven, NC State*
Tyler Lydon, Syracuse
Donovan Mitchell, Louisville*
Jaylen Johnson, Louisville*
Deng Adel, Louisville*
John Collins, Wake Forest*
Austin Nichols, Virginia

* Indicates potential return, no agent hired. I.e., "testing the waters."

Thanks, Oly, for keeping us organized WRT the conference specifically. Figured I'd try to add a bit more detail for context.

[Olympic Fan]

No ACC news today, but UCLA's TJ Leaf added his name to the list.

And I had not seen it, but Lauri Markkanen of Arizona is also on the list.

[gofurman]

* Indicates potential return, no agent hired. I.e., "testing the waters."

Thanks, Oly, for keeping us organized WRT the conference specifically. Figured I'd try to add a bit more detail for context.

Thanks for marking which do not have an agent - some of those will return. That's a big difference.

Question. Is this thread for all early declarations or just those in the Acc ??

[English]

Thanks for marking which do not have an agent - some of those will return. That's a big difference.

Question. Is this thread for all early declarations or just those in the Acc ??

All early entrants and transfers, regardless of conference. Many around these parts are paying particular attention to the ACC, though, because of the obvious implications for the 2017-18 Duke season.

[Cormac]

Not a surprise, but Trevon Bluiett of Xavier has declared as well. He is not signing an agent yet, so he could return for his senior year. An alumni can hope...

[Spanarkel]

6'8" redshirt sophomore wing Cameron Johnson of Pitt is transferring. He averaged 11.9ppg and almost 5 rpg with a 2/1 A/TO ratio, and shot .415 from three range(78 makes). He has a 3.9 GPA and will graduate this spring, and presumably will be eligible to play this coming season.

[BD80]

6'8" redshirt sophomore wing Cameron Johnson of Pitt is transferring. He averaged 11.9ppg and almost 5 rpg with a 2/1 A/TO ratio, and shot .415 from three range(78 makes). He has a 3.9 GPA and will graduate this spring, and presumably will be eligible to play this coming season.

"Cameron?" He might feel at home playing at Duke.

Congrats to him achieving his degree in 3, Pitt isn't necessarily at Duke's level, but it is still an admirable achievement.

[Olympic Fan]

6'8" redshirt sophomore wing Cameron Johnson of Pitt is transferring. He averaged 11.9ppg and almost 5 rpg with a 2/1 A/TO ratio, and shot .415 from three range(78 makes). He has a 3.9 GPA and will graduate this spring, and presumably will be eligible to play this coming season.

Wow ... to me, this is huge. Pitt had already lost Cory Manigault and Damon Wilson to transfers, but they were small losses -- Manigault played in less than half their games (and just 3.8 mpg in those), Wilson played in about three-fourths of the game, averaging 7 minutes.

But Johnson started, along with four seniors, so his departure means that Stallings has to replace all five starters.

When I look at their returning roster, I see two big men who have some ability (Luther and Nix) and two point guards who were failures last year when they really needed a PG (Kithcart and Milligan).

Stallings is not having a great recruiting year -- so far. He has a four-star point guard, a three star big man, a three-star PG, a two-star big man and JC small forward and a Canadian SF who is unranked. Maybe he loads up on fifth-year guys.

But the Johnson news merely confirms that Pitt is going to be in or very near the ACC cellar next season.

[BandAlum83]

"Cameron?" He might feel at home playing at Duke.

Congrats to him achieving his degree in 3, Pitt isn't necessarily at Duke's level, but it is still an admirable achievement.

Please don't throw things at me, but I always said the hardest part of Duke was getting in.

I don't know if it's still this way, but when I was there, a "normal" course load was 4 classes per semester. Getting As was difficult, but graduating wasn't. Grade inflation was not a thing at Duke. Because of the quality of the students, no doubt the classes themselves were more rigorous than some other schools, but Dukies could handle it. Although I saw a few people "flunk out", the administration worked with you to make graduation happen. The 5 year graduation rates are a quantum leap above Maryland, for instance.

I look at it like this, Duke weeds kids out through the admissions process. Schools like Maryland let multitudes in, and let the students weed themselves out. It why so many have honors programs to at least recognize high achievers who get priority for class registration.

For non-honors students at state schools, a 4 year degree is nearly unheard of these days. 5 years seems to be the norm' at least from what I hear from friends.

Because of the Duke structure, double majors were common, and triple majors weren't unheard of. The four year track is the norm, as it is with most private, "elite" schools. With the AP programs now available at most schools around the country, graduation in three years would seem to be easier at Duke than at a Md. (I only use them as an example), especially if pursuing a single major.

My daughter just graduated from a state school, where 5 classes per semester were the norm. I encouraged her to take 4, and she did a couple of summer sessions to graduate in 4.5 years. It was way more manageable.

Not looking to derail a thread, but just felt the need to respond.

[tbyers11]

Wow ... to me, this is huge. Pitt had already lost Cory Manigault and Damon Wilson to transfers, but they were small losses -- Manigault played in less than half their games (and just 3.8 mpg in those), Wilson played in about three-fourths of the game, averaging 7 minutes.

But Johnson started, along with four seniors, so his departure means that Stallings has to replace all five starters.

When I look at their returning roster, I see two big men who have some ability (Luther and Nix) and two point guards who were failures last year when they really needed a PG (Kithcart and Milligan).

Stallings is not having a great recruiting year -- so far. He has a four-star point guard, a three star big man, a three-star PG, a two-star big man and JC small forward and a Canadian SF who is unranked. Maybe he loads up on fifth-year guys.

But the Johnson news merely confirms that Pitt is going to be in or very near the ACC cellar next season.

Kithcart was dismissed from the team before the season was completed. I agree that Pitt will likely be the at the bottom of the league.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

De'Aaron Fox to the NBA with an agent. His stock was already strong but he likely made himself some money against UCLA.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19069668/kentucky-wildcats-guard-deaaron-fox-likely-lottery-pick-enters-nba-draft

[EKU1969]

Whatever gains he made against UCLA should have been lost against the 'Cheats!

[English]

Tony Bradley, of the bad guys, is officially testing the waters and hasn't ruled out signing with an agent.

Let the exodus begin (hopefully)...looking at you, Joel Berry.

[richardjackson199]

Malik Monk also gone. No surprise.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19074339/malik-monk-kentucky-wildcats-declares-nba-draft

Hopefully Bam leaves too.

[CDu]

Tony Bradley, of the bad guys, is officially testing the waters and hasn't ruled out signing with an agent.

Let the exodus begin (hopefully)...looking at you, Joel Berry.

The one upside of UNC winning: greater chance that everyone who can go will. Jackson will go. Berry might. Bradley probably won't, but you never know.

[pfrduke]

The one upside of UNC winning: greater chance that everyone who can go will. Jackson will go. Berry might. Bradley probably won't, but you never know.

I'm generally with you on Bradley probably won't, but the timing of the announcement is encouraging to me. To do it the morning after the championship suggests that it's something he's been thinking about for a while and wants to be a viable opportunity (I realize it's a reductive thing to say that a basketball player wants to play in the NBA, but I think different players have different degrees of wanting it to happen right away). It's not quite one foot out the door, but close.

It would be nice for UNC to have some bad early entry luck after the last decade - the only person I can think of who left earlier than expected for them is Kendall Marshall.

[sagegrouse]

I'm generally with you on Bradley probably won't, but the timing of the announcement is encouraging to me. To do it the morning after the championship suggests that it's something he's been thinking about for a while and wants to be a viable opportunity (I realize it's a reductive thing to say that a basketball player wants to play in the NBA, but I think different players have different degrees of wanting it to happen right away). It's not quite one foot out the door, but close.

It would be nice for UNC to have some bad early entry luck after the last decade - the only person I can think of who left earlier than expected for them is Kendall Marshall.

Lessee... Duke's season ended two weeks ago, and we haven't heard a peep from Luke or Grayson (or Frank). UNC's season ended 12 hours ago, and there is already an announcement from Tony Bradley. We'll see how it turns out, but these are hopeful signs.....

[ChillinDuke]

I'm generally with you on Bradley probably won't, but the timing of the announcement is encouraging to me. To do it the morning after the championship suggests that it's something he's been thinking about for a while and wants to be a viable opportunity (I realize it's a reductive thing to say that a basketball player wants to play in the NBA, but I think different players have different degrees of wanting it to happen right away). It's not quite one foot out the door, but close.

It would be nice for UNC to have some bad early entry luck after the last decade - the only person I can think of who left earlier than expected for them is Kendall Marshall.

If Bradley leaves, UNC will be quite average next year. Their starting lineup (with Bradley) projects to be Berry, maybe Kenny Williams, Pinson, Maye, and Bradley - which is solid - however they wouldn't have a very good bench (presumably). Without Bradley, you're looking at an extremely weak front line which is essentially a requirement for UNC's system.

I'm surprised by the timing of the announcement. It's as if he's barely enjoying the moment. That said, I wouldn't expect him to actually leave as he's not even assured of the first round.

- Chillin

[Olympic Fan]

That said, I wouldn't expect him to actually leave as he's not even assured of the first round.

I disagree.

If Bradley is available, he will be drafted in the 17-25 range. He WILL get a guarantee.

[Doria]

I disagree.

If Bradley is available, he will be drafted in the 17-25 range. He WILL get a guarantee.

I agree. I really like his potential. Think he can become a very solid NBA contributing player, at the least.

[FerryFor50]

I agree. I really like his potential. Think he can become a very solid NBA contributing player, at the least.

Yup. He's probably a guaranteed first rounder. I'm already seeing UNC fans say "he's not ready." Likely not because he's not ready, but because THEY'RE not ready to lose him.

If Bradley leaves, he'd be bucking the trend and making a smarter decision for his financial future than Justin Jackson, Harrison Barnes, James Michael McAdoo and Brice Johnson ever did.

I also hope he does leave; that would make the UNC natty more bearable, knowing they're basically down to Luke Maye, Joel Berry and Seventh Woods. Bradley would be a handful next season.

[ChillinDuke]

I disagree.

If Bradley is available, he will be drafted in the 17-25 range. He WILL get a guarantee.

Well if he WILL get a guarantee of the top-25, then I stand corrected. I am NOT sure that someone slotted between 17-25 is assured to be within that range. If that range misses by a few picks, you're looking at the SECOND round. Chad Ford, for example, LISTS Bradley at #28 - not that most people around here seem to like Chad.

Regardless of where you want to put your emPHAsis :rolleyes: , if Bradley gets a guarantee and bolts, UNC will be in a jam next season. Bradley would have been one of their ~3 best players and their clear-cut #1 big.

- Chillin

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Well if he WILL get a guarantee of the top-25, then I stand corrected. I am NOT sure that someone slotted between 17-25 is assured to be within that range. If that range misses by a few picks, you're looking at the SECOND round. Chad Ford, for example, LISTS Bradley at #28 - not that most people around here seem to like Chad.

Regardless of where you want to put your emPHAsis :rolleyes: , if Bradley gets a guarantee and bolts, UNC will be in a jam next season. Bradley would have been one of their ~3 best players and their clear-cut #1 big.

- Chillin

I don't know Bradley's personal situation but if I were him I would stick around another year, be "the guy" with a pretty good supporting cast around him, and leave next year into a weaker draft. Like it or not, Carolina has a long history of showcasing big men like him and it would really be his turn next year. This is not what I hope happens, but it is the logical path, assuming he doesn't have mouths to feed and generally enjoys being in school (which are always the big underlying issues in all of these decisions).

[sagegrouse]

Well if he WILL get a guarantee of the top-25, then I stand corrected. I am NOT sure that someone slotted between 17-25 is assured to be within that range. If that range misses by a few picks, you're looking at the SECOND round. Chad Ford, for example, LISTS Bradley at #28 - not that most people around here seem to like Chad.

Regardless of where you want to put your emPHAsis :rolleyes: , if Bradley gets a guarantee and bolts, UNC will be in a jam next season. Bradley would have been one of their ~3 best players and their clear-cut #1 big.

- Chillin

Didn't Marshall Plumlee get a guaranteed contract? I expect Tony Bradley will get a guaranteed contract.

[dukelifer]

Yup. He's probably a guaranteed first rounder. I'm already seeing UNC fans say "he's not ready." Likely not because he's not ready, but because THEY'RE not ready to lose him.

If Bradley leaves, he'd be bucking the trend and making a smarter decision for his financial future than Justin Jackson, Harrison Barnes, James Michael McAdoo and Brice Johnson ever did.

I also hope he does leave; that would make the UNC natty more bearable, knowing they're basically down to Luke Maye, Joel Berry and Seventh Woods. Bradley would be a handful next season.

And would break the narrative that Roy does not recruit one and done players.

[CDu]

I don't know Bradley's personal situation but if I were him I would stick around another year, be "the guy" with a pretty good supporting cast around him, and leave next year into a weaker draft. Like it or not, Carolina has a long history of showcasing big men like him and it would really be his turn next year. This is not what I hope happens, but it is the logical path, assuming he doesn't have mouths to feed and generally enjoys being in school (which are always the big underlying issues in all of these decisions).

That was the same situation presented to James Michael McAdoo. McAdoo chose just as you suggest here. And he was exposed as less than impressive. He doubled down on his mistake and returned as a junior, only to again hurt his stock. And he wound up undrafted.

Now, that is not to say that Bradley will suffer the same fate. Just that there is definitely the risk that things won't work out for him when given the opportunity to be the man.

[dukelifer]

I disagree.

If Bradley is available, he will be drafted in the 17-25 range. He WILL get a guarantee.

If I were a GM- I would take Bradley over Giles.

[CDu]

If I were a GM- I would take Bradley over Giles.

I would take Giles over Bradley. The scouts have seen what Giles did in international play prior to injuries. And the athletic potential Giles has is far above that of Bradley. As he regains trust in his knees, I think we will see that player return.

And even with the injuries limiting him, Giles matched Bradley in FG%, rebounding rate, block rate, and steals rate.

[FerryFor50]

That was the same situation presented to James Michael McAdoo. McAdoo chose just as you suggest here. And he was exposed as less than impressive. He doubled down on his mistake and returned as a junior, only to again hurt his stock. And he wound up undrafted.

Now, that is not to say that Bradley will suffer the same fate. Just that there is definitely the risk that things won't work out for him when given the opportunity to be the man.

Yup. Strike while the iron is hot.

Marvin Williams is a great example; left after his freshman year, when they won the natty in 2005, was drafted #2 and has carved out a solid NBA career as a role player and made some nice $$.

Had he stuck around, who knows what happens?

Now, Bradley won't go #2, but it makes sense to chase the $$ if that's your goal.

[dukelifer]

I would take Giles over Bradley. The scouts have seen what Giles did in international play prior to injuries. And the athletic potential Giles has is far above that of Bradley. As he regains trust in his knees, I think we will see that player return.

And even with the injuries limiting him, Giles matched Bradley in FG%, rebounding rate, block rate, and steals rate.

At this point- it is hard to trust those knees. I agree- a healthy Giles is a better pick. Just not sure if a healthy Giles is coming back. Definitely a gamble.

[awhom111]

This was supposed to be a possible bumper crop of early declarations because of the number of 2013 recruits who ended up transferring, but it looks like we will only have two, Allisha Gray and Kaela Davis after they won the national championship. That means that a pair of potential top picks will return and instead be targeting the 2018 draft (players who are classified as American in the CBA can declare if they turn 22 in the year of the draft, even if they still have eligibility). Closer to home, that means that the deadline has passed and Lexie Brown and Becca Greenwell did not declare. All of these choices have reversed a recent trend that saw pretty much everyone who should declare go ahead and do so, angering some people in the college game.

This also means that the 2018 draft will be highly anticipated, including numerous international prospects. Interestingly, international players can only be picked in the year that they turn 20, so in theory more teams should be taking chances on them with late round picks since using those picks on college players is almost always a complete waste.

Was this posted in the wrong thread? You decide.

[ChillinDuke]

Didn't Marshall Plumlee get a guaranteed contract? I expect Tony Bradley will get a guaranteed contract.

Guaranteed draft pick, not guaranteed contract. As in, some NBA team has an agreement with Bradley that they will draft him if he's available.

Marshall Plumlee assuredly did not have a "guarantee" from an NBA team. On the other hand, Bradley could understandably receive one - in which case if he goes in the first round, he'd also get a guaranteed contract.

- Chillin

[sagegrouse]

Guaranteed draft pick, not guaranteed contract. As in, some NBA team has an agreement with Bradley that they will draft him if he's available.

Marshall Plumlee assuredly did not have a "guarantee" from an NBA team. On the other hand, Bradley could understandably receive one - in which case if he goes in the first round, he'd also get a guaranteed contract.

- Chillin

I think there are some semantic issues here. The Knicks did give undrafted free agent Marshall Plumlee a guaranteed contract (http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2016/7/7/12119160/knicks-marshall-plumlee-training-camp-summer-league-rookie-duke-contract).

Here's the head and sub-head:



Knicks give Marshall Plumlee 3-year deal with a first-year guarantee

Former Duke big man Marshall Plumlee will report to training camp with the Knicks thanks to a new three year contract that fully guarantees his salary in year one. Ergo, someone is going to guarantee Tony Bradley's contract -- and probably a lot better deal than Marshall got.

[CDu]

I think there are some semantic issues here. The Knicks did give undrafted free agent Marshall Plumlee a guaranteed contract (http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2016/7/7/12119160/knicks-marshall-plumlee-training-camp-summer-league-rookie-duke-contract).

Here's the head and sub-head:


Ergo, someone is going to guarantee Tony Bradley's contract -- and probably a lot better deal than Marshall got.

I think the point that ChillinDuke was making was that Plumlee had no guarantees coming out of the draft. He had to earn a spot as an undrafted free agent. The Knicks decided to give him a guaranteed one-year deal with two team options. I don't think Plumlee's path is going to entice Bradley to leave early.

I DO think Bradley would end up getting drafted, probably late in the first round. Whether or not that's enough to make him go, I don't know. But if he was anywhere near the same position that Plumlee was in last Spring/Summer, there is no way he'd stay in the draft.

[ChillinDuke]

I think there are some semantic issues here. The Knicks did give undrafted free agent Marshall Plumlee a guaranteed contract (http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2016/7/7/12119160/knicks-marshall-plumlee-training-camp-summer-league-rookie-duke-contract).

Here's the head and sub-head:


Ergo, someone is going to guarantee Tony Bradley's contract -- and probably a lot better deal than Marshall got.

Yes there are two separate things in basketball.

1) A guarantee that Team A will draft you. This is basically a verbal agreement where Team A sits down with Player and says, "If you are available at Pick #25, we guarantee that we will take you with our pick." YMMV on how much you want to rely on such a an "agreement."

2) A guaranteed contract. This is a legally binding agreement that means there are no strings attached to your money. You are guaranteed to get it. You don't have to stay healthy, play X number of games, not get into trouble, etc. The money is legally mandated.

#1 and #2 are totally different forms of "guarantee". One is a handshake deal that you'll be drafted; the other is a legal guarantee that is written into a signed contract.

The relation between #1 and #2 (and likely the source of the confusion) is that, I believe, 1st round draft picks receive guaranteed contracts (#2) by rule. So you can get a guarantee that you will be drafted (#1), then in fact get drafted, then be required to be extended a contract with money that is guaranteed per the terms of the contract (#2).

But just because you receive a guarantee (#1) does not mean that team will actually pick you - in which case there is nothing "guaranteed" about anything - draft- or money-wise.

- Chillin

[bob blue devil]

Yes there are two separate things in basketball.

1) A guarantee that Team A will draft you. This is basically a verbal agreement where Team A sits down with Player and says, "If you are available at Pick #25, we guarantee that we will take you with our pick." YMMV on how much you want to rely on such a an "agreement."

2) A guaranteed contract. This is a legally binding agreement that means there are no strings attached to your money. You are guaranteed to get it. You don't have to stay healthy, play X number of games, not get into trouble, etc. The money is legally mandated.

#1 and #2 are totally different forms of "guarantee". One is a handshake deal that you'll be drafted; the other is a legal guarantee that is written into a signed contract.

The relation between #1 and #2 (and likely the source of the confusion) is that, I believe, 1st round draft picks receive guaranteed contracts (#2) by rule. So you can get a guarantee that you will be drafted (#1), then in fact get drafted, then be required to be extended a contract with money that is guaranteed per the terms of the contract (#2).

But just because you receive a guarantee (#1) does not mean that team will actually pick you - in which case there is nothing "guaranteed" about anything - draft- or money-wise.

- Chillin

regarding #1, i've heard this concept before and i assume it is a real thing, but it makes no sense to me. why would a team tell a kid that if he declares, they guarantee they'll draft him? i need to do some real mental gymnastics to invent a scenario where it helps the team, and it's not a riskless proposition (at least, if the team values its reputation).

[sagegrouse]

Yes there are two separate things in basketball.

1) A guarantee that Team A will draft you. This is basically a verbal agreement where Team A sits down with Player and says, "If you are available at Pick #25, we guarantee that we will take you with our pick." YMMV on how much you want to rely on such a an "agreement."

2) A guaranteed contract. This is a legally binding agreement that means there are no strings attached to your money. You are guaranteed to get it. You don't have to stay healthy, play X number of games, not get into trouble, etc. The money is legally mandated.

#1 and #2 are totally different forms of "guarantee". One is a handshake deal that you'll be drafted; the other is a legal guarantee that is written into a signed contract.

The relation between #1 and #2 (and likely the source of the confusion) is that, I believe, 1st round draft picks receive guaranteed contracts (#2) by rule. So you can get a guarantee that you will be drafted (#1), then in fact get drafted, then be required to be extended a contract with money that is guaranteed per the terms of the contract (#2).

But just because you receive a guarantee (#1) does not mean that team will actually pick you - in which case there is nothing "guaranteed" about anything - draft- or money-wise.

- Chillin
I hear you, but don't teams lie through their teeth on their draft promises, or am I being unusually suspicious? In that case, we shouldn't call a team promise a "guarantee." My point was, if the issue is guaranteed money (and why wouldn't that be a main part of any decision), Marshall's experience should be encouraging to Mr. Bradley. MP3 got guaranteed money as an undrafted free agent. Bradley is a big dude and way ahead of Marshall at the same age.

Kindly,
Sage

-----------------------
As a totally unconnected observation: All of the Plumlees run really well -- speedy, good form, very athletic. Last week I just happened to watch with my grandchildren the original Star Wars (1977). In a couple of the early scenes, Luke Skywalker (Mark Hamill) is running across the desert. Holy, moly! Call Duke track coach Al Buehler! That was the worst running form I can remember seeing from a movie star -- his upper body was twisting and turning while he was trying to bound ahead. Didn't George Lucas notice? Use a double, for heavens sakes.

[ChillinDuke]

I hear you, but don't teams lie through their teeth on their draft promises, or am I being unusually suspicious? In that case, we shouldn't call a team promise a "guarantee." My point was, if the issue is guaranteed money (and why wouldn't that be a main part of any decision), Marshall's experience should be encouraging to Mr. Bradley. MP3 got guaranteed money as an undrafted free agent. Bradley is a big dude and way ahead of Marshall at the same age.

Kindly,
Sage

-----------------------
As a totally unconnected observation: All of the Plumlees run really well -- speedy, good form, very athletic. Last week I just happened to watch with my grandchildren the original Star Wars (1977). In a couple of the early scenes, Luke Skywalker (Mark Hamill) is running across the desert. Holy, moly! Call Duke track coach Al Buehler! That was the worst running form I can remember seeing from a movie star -- his upper body was twisting and turning while he was trying to bound ahead. Didn't George Lucas notice? Use a double, for heavens sakes.

Oh, I totally agree that it's not actually a "guarantee." But I'm also not going to try to change popular NBA Draft vernacular. People call these lie-through-your-teeth promises "guarantees."

The issue is (as you said) mostly about guaranteed money, but it's also just the concept of getting into the NBA. It may be a really weak argument on my part, but I'm sure at least some kids are more likely to declare if they get a lie-through-your-teeth promise. It's easier to do something scary/risky if you truly believe it's going to happen with relative certainty versus having a totally open-ended spectrum of where/if one will be drafted. Not really a major dealbreaker, but mentally/emotionally it could move the needle on decisions.

So to your point about Marshall being an encouraging example to Mr. Bradley. You're right. But that example applies to essentially every single draftable player that declares. If they don't get drafted, they can go all "Marshall Plumlee" and get a guaranteed contract despite not being picked. So by that logic, tons and tons of kids should declare despite not having a clear chance at being drafted. Oh, wait...

- Chillin

[English]

Bam Adebayo testing the waters without an agent.

[Spanarkel]

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19088128/kobi-simmons-arizona-wildcats-enter-nba-draft

[ChillinDuke]

So state of the union: at last count on Hoops Rumors, we're at 60 potential early entrants + 7 known international entrants. That does not include any graduating seniors, of which 12 are currently listed in DraftExpress' 2-round mock.

So roughly speaking - we're at 80 people for 60 draft spots. And realistically, that 80 number should grow significantly.

- Chillin

[CrazyNotCrazie]

So state of the union: at last count on Hoops Rumors, we're at 60 potential early entrants + 7 known international entrants. That does not include any graduating seniors, of which 12 are currently listed in DraftExpress' 2-round mock.

So roughly speaking - we're at 80 people for 60 draft spots. And realistically, that 80 number should grow significantly.

- Chillin

And all 80 have someone whispering in their ear that they can be a first round pick with a guaranteed contract. I recognize that some kids have mouths to feed and/or don't want to be in school because they have no interest in academics, but for so many, it is just a really bad decision.

[ChillinDuke]

And all 80 have someone whispering in their ear that they can be a first round pick with a guaranteed contract. I recognize that some kids have mouths to feed and/or don't want to be in school because they have no interest in academics, but for so many, it is just a really bad decision.

Well to backtrack a bit from what I previously posted, some of these people will withdraw. So 80 is the current high bound, but others will declare + more seniors than are listed in the mocks are reasonably available to be drafted. The point still stands.

And I agree with your general point but would rephrase to capture nuance. For so many, it is foolish to believe they will be drafted in the NBA. I have to assume a lot of these guys are aware of the possibility that they'll be playing overseas or in the D-League and hopefully they're OK with that. I'm sure a bunch of people end up shell-shocked. But I'd like to believe that enough of them understand their NBA-related risks entering the draft. If anyone else has better insight, love to hear it.

- Chillin

[English]

Creighton's Justin Patton declared for the draft and signing with an agent.

Caleb Swanigan is testing the waters, as is UCLA big Ike Anigbogu.

[Pghdukie]

Of the Declared 80, how many have signed with an agent ? Thus eliminating their option of returning to school.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Add Isaiah Briscoe to the list - he signed with an agent. Perhaps it would save bandwidth to have a "players staying at Kentucky" thread? I think he is a case of having maxed out his college potential - he is projected as a second rounder.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19092075/isaiah-briscoe-becomes-fourth-kentucky-wildcats-player-declare-nba-draft

[MarkD83]

Add Isaiah Briscoe to the list - he signed with an agent. Perhaps it would save bandwidth to have a "players staying at Kentucky" thread? I think he is a case of having maxed out his college potential - he is projected as a second rounder.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19092075/isaiah-briscoe-becomes-fourth-kentucky-wildcats-player-declare-nba-draft

That might be an empty thread...

[flyingdutchdevil]

That might be an empty thread...

Not as empty as the Duke staying thread.

[gam7]

Creighton's Justin Patton declared for the draft and signing with an agent.

Caleb Swanigan is testing the waters, as is UCLA big Ike Anigbogu.

Also Kobi Simmons of Arizona is in and staying in. And Tacko Fall (coached by Johnny D) is testing waters. He's a very interesting bloke. 7'6". Rec Spex. From Senegal.

Also notable but not mentioned anywhere - Bruce Brown is staying at Miami. He is ranked 29 overall on draftexpress. Definitely a pro prospect, but not this year.

[Olympic Fan]

Add Carlton Bragg to the transfer listed. The talented, but trouble (two suspensions this year) forward is leaving Kansas:

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/19092856/sophomore-carlton-bragg-jr-transfer-kansas-jayhawks

[devildeac]

Add Carlton Bragg to the transfer listed. The talented, but trouble (two suspensions this year) forward is leaving Kansas:

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/19092856/sophomore-carlton-bragg-jr-transfer-kansas-jayhawks

Might give another meaning to "ward of the state" depending on his destination this summer...

:rolleyes:

[kAzE]

Add Isaiah Briscoe to the list - he signed with an agent. Perhaps it would save bandwidth to have a "players staying at Kentucky" thread? I think he is a case of having maxed out his college potential - he is projected as a second rounder.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19092075/isaiah-briscoe-becomes-fourth-kentucky-wildcats-player-declare-nba-draft

I'd amend that . . . he's not projected to be drafted. He's currently #86 on DraftExpress's top 100, and is not in NBADraft.net's 2017 Mock Draft at all. Pretty foolish decision in my opinion. The guy had skills to be an effective college player, but he's not an NBA player. Not with his jump shot. Not sure who's advising him, but bad job by them . . .

Good luck overseas.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Add Carlton Bragg to the transfer listed. The talented, but trouble (two suspensions this year) forward is leaving Kansas:

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/19092856/sophomore-carlton-bragg-jr-transfer-kansas-jayhawks

Any word on Devonte Graham? Outside of Duke players, he's the one I'm interested in the most.

[BD80]

Big announcement for Collins and Northwestern: Charlie Hall is STAYING

http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/julia-louis-dreyfus-son-ends-suspense-and-declares-he-will-return-to-northwestern/

This keeps Julia in the stands.

[Troublemaker]

Also notable but not mentioned anywhere - Bruce Brown is staying at Miami. He is ranked 29 overall on draftexpress. Definitely a pro prospect, but not this year.

Yes, I had come to post this but you beat me to it. Great news for Miami, who should be a strong challenger for top-4 (and maybe more) in the ACC next season.

[English]

Big announcement for Collins and Northwestern: Charlie Hall is STAYING

http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/julia-louis-dreyfus-son-ends-suspense-and-declares-he-will-return-to-northwestern/

This keeps Julia in the stands.

I think I get it, but this post is confusing...I suspect Charlie Hall is staying, but I'm not sure who Charlie White is. Or is Charlie White staying, and Charlie Hall is a figment?

[ChillinDuke]

I'd amend that . . . he's not projected to be drafted. He's currently #86 on DraftExpress's top 100, and is not in NBADraft.net's 2017 Mock Draft at all. Pretty foolish decision in my opinion. The guy had skills to be an effective college player, but he's not an NBA player. Not with his jump shot. Not sure who's advising him, but bad job by them . . .

Good luck overseas.

As I noted upthread, why is the bolded true? It's more likely that he's read the mock drafts (or, more likely, gotten intel via Cal from real NBA people), understands that he's unlikely to be drafted, and just doesn't want to play in college anymore and/or wants to get started making money playing professional basketball.

Not everyone requires the NBA to be happy. And not everyone is truly dumb enough to think they are getting drafted when most objective measures point to the opposite.

For the record, I have no interest in Isaiah Briscoe, just pointing out that this concept (seemingly widely held) of "bad advice" regarding entering the NBA draft when unlikely to be drafted seems silly.

- Chillin

[English]

As I noted upthread, why is the bolded true? It's more likely that he's read the mock drafts (or, more likely, gotten intel via Cal from real NBA people), understands that he's unlikely to be drafted, and just doesn't want to play in college anymore and/or wants to get started making money playing professional basketball.

Not everyone requires the NBA to be happy. And not everyone is truly dumb enough to think they are getting drafted when most objective measures point to the opposite.

For the record, I have no interest in Isaiah Briscoe, just pointing out that this concept (seemingly widely held) of "bad advice" regarding entering the NBA draft when unlikely to be drafted seems silly.

- Chillin

You make a valid point, Chillin, and I certainly don't want to speak for Kaze...but I think Occam's Razor applies here. Odds are Briscoe declared and hired an agent in preparation for the draft because he thinks or was told that he will, indeed, be drafted into the NBA. That's unlikely to happen. Very unlikely. By all measures, he's not really projected as a second round flier. Of course, at least he has an agent to work out his undrafted free agent terms when he's shopping around for tryouts or international club offers.

Certainly, you're right and perhaps Cal and Briscoe's inner circle told him objectively "Isaiah, you're not going to be drafted, you're likely going to have to play in the D-League or overseas, else enter the non-professional athlete workforce" and he choose to leave and hire an agent anyway. School isn't for everyone, even if it's the current simplest way to showcase one's talents for future NBA drafts.

[kAzE]

As I noted upthread, why is the bolded true? It's more likely that he's read the mock drafts (or, more likely, gotten intel via Cal from real NBA people), understands that he's unlikely to be drafted, and just doesn't want to play in college anymore and/or wants to get started making money playing professional basketball.

Not everyone requires the NBA to be happy. And not everyone is truly dumb enough to think they are getting drafted when most objective measures point to the opposite.

For the record, I have no interest in Isaiah Briscoe, just pointing out that this concept (seemingly widely held) of "bad advice" regarding entering the NBA draft when unlikely to be drafted seems silly.

- Chillin

I'd say your point is valid, if his goal was simply to play overseas and start making money. But it's not. His goal is to play in the NBA:


Thank you Kentucky for an amazing 2 years..With that being said I've decided to enter the 2017 NBA Draft and will be signing with an agent.

That's from his own Twitter account. He didn't say "I've decided to start my professional career playing in Italy."

When the reason you leave UK is to enter the NBA draft, you better get drafted, because if not, you're passing up an opportunity to stay with an NBA caliber coaching & training staff, as well as NBA caliber facilities, national exposure, and a chance to play some really high level basketball with the possibility of winning a national championship. Oh, not to mention he's also passing up a free opportunity to get a college degree (OK fine, nobody cares about that).

[ChillinDuke]

I'd say your point is valid, if his goal was simply to play overseas and start making money. But it's not. His goal is to play in the NBA:



That's from his own Twitter account. He didn't say "I've decided to start my professional career playing in Italy."

When the reason you leave UK is to enter the NBA draft, you better get drafted, because if not, you're passing up an opportunity to stay with an NBA caliber coaching & training staff, as well as NBA caliber facilities, national exposure, and a chance to play some really high level basketball with the possibility of winning a national championship. Oh, not to mention he's also passing up a free opportunity to get a college degree.

But it's more likely that his Twitter account is being used for "marketing" purposes. Why would he say the bolded?

For example, why would Gillette say that their razor is 3 pieces of cheap metal attached to a plastic handle with some blue dye on the top? Instead Gillette says their Mach 3 uses three Duracomfort blades with a premium handle for a great shaving experience along with their lubrication strip and advanced skin guard (Gillette (http://gillette.com/en-us/products/razors-trimmers-and-blades/mach3-razors/mach3-razor)). Same goes for kids trying to get to the NBA. Why say they are going to play in Italy? They can always play in Italy - Italy isn't going anywhere, and they'd be happy to have Isaiah today, tomorrow, or whenever. Why not shoot for the stars and say he's going to play in the NBA! When (or if) it doesn't play out that he gets drafted, try the D-League. Maybe he can work his way onto a roster in a few months, or a year, or three, especially since he now has "extra" years by leaving UK. And if it still doesn't work out for him, Ciao ragazzi! Sono Isaiah!

I'm much more convinced that Isaiah knows all of these forward-looking possibilities than what he presents on his Twitter account.

- Chillin

[kAzE]

Why not shoot for the stars and say he's going to play in the NBA! When (or if) it doesn't play out that he gets drafted, try the D-League. Maybe he can work his way onto a roster in a few months, or a year, or three, especially since he now has "extra" years by leaving UK. And if it still doesn't work out for him, Ciao ragazzi! Sono Isaiah!

I'm much more convinced that Isaiah knows all of these forward-looking possibilities than what he presents on his Twitter account.

- Chillin

If the D-League is the best alternative, you just made my point for me. And that's assuming he can even get a spot in the D-League. No NBA team wants a 6-3 guard who shoots 20% from 3. D-League players make between $19,000 and $26,000 a year before taxes. Tuition plus room and board and other expenses at Kentucky for an out-of-state student is over $40,000. And as I mentioned before, he's got access to WAY better coaching, facilities, and trainers at UK than he would anywhere other than on a real NBA team. It's a no brainer to stay at UK. It may not help his draft stock to stay (unless he shows improvement with his shot), but at least he would set himself up for a career beyond basketball.

He made this decision based on his own belief that he will get drafted. He is not aiming for the D-League, trust me.

[jhmoss1812]

UVA landed a commitment from Rutgers grad transfer Nigel Johnson today. Definitely much needed after losing Thompson and Shayok to transfer.

We also had Noah Dickerson on grounds for a visit this weekend as well. Dickerson is currently at Washington but is potentially seeking a transfer.

[Olympic Fan]

Ty Hudson leaving Clemson. He was a well-regarded recruit, but in two seasons, he was an end-of-the-bench player.

Sheldon Mitchell's knee surgery is more serious. With Blossomgame gone, Mitchell is probably their best player.

[Olympic Fan]

Here's my latest ACC update. Please, if you have any additions or corrections, post here:

Underclassmen to the NBA (*might return)
Jayson Tatum, Duke
Luke Kennard, Duke
Harry Giles, Duke
Dwayne Bacon, FSU
Jonathan Isaac, FSU
Xavier Rathan-Mayes, FSU
Donovan Mitchell, Louisville*
Deng Adel, Louisville*
Jaylen Johnson, Louisville*
Dennis Smith, N.C. State
Omer Yurtseven, N.C. State*
John Collins, Wake Forest
Tyler Lydon, Syracuse
Tony Bradley, UNC*
Austin Nichols, Virginia

Still no word on NBA possibles Justin Jackson, UNC, and Grayson Allen, Duke

Transfers:
Chase Jeter, Duke
Sean Obi, Duke
Ty Hudson, Clemson
Marial Shayok, Virginia
Darius Thompson, Virginia
Jarred Reuter, Virginia
Cameron Johnson, Pitt
Crisshawn Clark, Pittsburgh
Matt Ryan, Notre Dame
Ty Graves, Boston College
Christian Matthews, Georgia Tech
Greg McClinton, Wake Forest

Note (dismissed during the season)
Michael Gilmore, Miami
Rasah Muhammed, Miami
Corey Manigaut, Pitt

Transfers coming (both eligible next season):
Seth LeDay, Virginia Tech (Jr. – from Northwest Mississippi Community College)
Nigel Johnson, Virginia (Sr. -- from Rutgers)

[sagegrouse]

Oh, I totally agree that it's not actually a "guarantee." But I'm also not going to try to change popular NBA Draft vernacular. People call these lie-through-your-teeth promises "guarantees."

The issue is (as you said) mostly about guaranteed money, but it's also just the concept of getting into the NBA. It may be a really weak argument on my part, but I'm sure at least some kids are more likely to declare if they get a lie-through-your-teeth promise. It's easier to do something scary/risky if you truly believe it's going to happen with relative certainty versus having a totally open-ended spectrum of where/if one will be drafted. Not really a major dealbreaker, but mentally/emotionally it could move the needle on decisions.

So to your point about Marshall being an encouraging example to Mr. Bradley. You're right. But that example applies to essentially every single draftable player that declares. If they don't get drafted, they can go all "Marshall Plumlee" and get a guaranteed contract despite not being picked. So by that logic, tons and tons of kids should declare despite not having a clear chance at being drafted. Oh, wait...

- Chillin Them NBA "draft guarantees." They're 'bout the same as "promises" from 17 YO football and hoops players that are somehow called "commitments," when they are no such a thing. In a ham-and-egg breakfast, the "commitment" was from the pig, not the chicken.

On the Marshall Plumlee analogy: any college player could, I suppose, look to Marshall as an example and hope that lightning strikes twice. I thought it was apropos to Tony Bradley because of Marshall's seven-foot size, good strength, speed and endurance -- and MP3's relatively underdeveloped basketball skills. Other seven-footers with athletic ability could take hope, but I don't see how it applies to the average college player or relatively ordinary size.

[Troublemaker]

Devonte' Graham‏ @Devonte_Graham4 (https://twitter.com/Devonte_Graham4) 55m55 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/Devonte_Graham4/status/851169854447120384)
I would just like to announce to all my family, friends, & fans that I'm coming back to school for my senior Yr

[gofurman]

Here's my latest ACC update. Please, if you have any additions or corrections, post here:

Underclassmen to the NBA (*might return)
Jayson Tatum, Duke
Luke Kennard, Duke
Harry Giles, Duke
Dwayne Bacon, FSU
Jonathan Isaac, FSU
Xavier Rathan-Mayes, FSU
Donovan Mitchell, Louisville*
Deng Adel, Louisville*
Jaylen Johnson, Louisville*
Dennis Smith, N.C. State
Omer Yurtseven, N.C. State*
John Collins, Wake Forest
Tyler Lydon, Syracuse
Tony Bradley, UNC*
Austin Nichols, Virginia

Still no word on NBA possibles Justin Jackson, UNC, and Grayson Allen, Duke

Transfers:
Chase Jeter, Duke
Sean Obi, Duke
Ty Hudson, Clemson
Marial Shayok, Virginia
Darius Thompson, Virginia
Jarred Reuter, Virginia
Cameron Johnson, Pitt
Crisshawn Clark, Pittsburgh
Matt Ryan, Notre Dame
Ty Graves, Boston College
Christian Matthews, Georgia Tech
Greg McClinton, Wake Forest

Note (dismissed during the season)
Michael Gilmore, Miami
Rasah Muhammed, Miami
Corey Manigaut, Pitt

Transfers coming (both eligible next season):
Seth LeDay, Virginia Tech (Jr. – from Northwest Mississippi Community College)
Nigel Johnson, Virginia (Sr. -- from Rutgers)

there is no asterisk beside John Collins at Wake Forest.. Has he hired an agent??

I don't see that he has an agent so I think we need an asterisk beside his name..

[Olympic Fan]

there is no asterisk beside John Collins at Wake Forest.. Has he hired an agent??

I don't see that he has an agent so I think we need an asterisk beside his name..

I'm not going by "hired an agent" -- heck, as far as I know Luke Kennard has not hired an agent. But he's not coming back.

Not sure if Collins has hired an agent or not, but every source I have says he's not coming back to Wake. Same with the three FSU guys. As for the three Louisville guys, Mitchell seems to be the only one who is a real threat to stay in the draft.

We'll know a lot more in about a month, when the NBA invites 60 players to their camp. The rule of thumb is pretty clear -- no invitation and no chance of being drafted. Of course, getting an invitation does mean you'll get a guarantee -- about half of the 60 invitees will withdraw.

[gofurman]

I'm not going by "hired an agent" -- heck, as far as I know Luke Kennard has not hired an agent. But he's not coming back.

Not sure if Collins has hired an agent or not, but every source I have says he's not coming back to Wake. Same with the three FSU guys. As for the three Louisville guys, Mitchell seems to be the only one who is a real threat to stay in the draft.

We'll know a lot more in about a month, when the NBA invites 60 players to their camp. The rule of thumb is pretty clear -- no invitation and no chance of being drafted. Of course, getting an invitation does mean you'll get a guarantee -- about half of the 60 invitees will withdraw.

OK, the difference I saw was that Kennard said he was going to hire an agent.. that means someone is gone in my mind. Collins stated he was not going to hire an agent and 'test the waters'. Not arguing at all, just a different statement from those two guys. Collins may be as good as gone.. he just made it clear he wasn't hiring an agent at this time and that he may return

[English]

Not ACC and not very surprising, but OG Anunoby has declared and will sign with an agent.

[sagegrouse]

Not ACC and not very surprising, but OG Anunoby has declared and will sign with an agent.

From Indiana.

[English]

(Potential) defections from UCLA: Aaron Holiday & Thomas Welsh will test the waters sans agent.

[flyingdutchdevil]

(Potential) defections from UCLA: Aaron Holiday & Thomas Welsh will test the waters sans agent.

Smart move. Welsh doesn't want to be the only white guy on UCLA next year. He may get all the blame for not bringing UCLA a championship.

[English]

Earlier today the internet started melting down after Dedric & KJ Lawson's dad confirmed that they had narrowed their potential transfer list (from Memphis) to Ole Miss, Iowa State, Duke & Kansas. He quickly followed that up by confirming that his sons will transfer to Kansas.

Dedric & KJ Lawson are transferring to Kansas--sit next season, eligible in 2018. The two averaged 31.5pts & 18+ rebs, cumulative, last season for Memphis.

[BD80]

Earlier today the internet started melting down after Dedric & KJ Lawson's dad confirmed that they had narrowed their potential transfer list (from Memphis) to Ole Miss, Iowa State, Duke & Kansas. He quickly followed that up by confirming that his sons will transfer to Kansas.

Dedric & KJ Lawson are transferring to Kansas--sit next season, eligible in 2018. The two averaged 31.5pts & 18+ rebs, cumulative, last season for Memphis.

Was that a "hire the dad as a coach" scenario?

[Billy Dat]

Earlier today the internet started melting down after Dedric & KJ Lawson's dad confirmed that they had narrowed their potential transfer list (from Memphis) to Ole Miss, Iowa State, Duke & Kansas. He quickly followed that up by confirming that his sons will transfer to Kansas.

Dedric & KJ Lawson are transferring to Kansas--sit next season, eligible in 2018. The two averaged 31.5pts & 18+ rebs, cumulative, last season for Memphis.

Gary Parrish of CBS, who does local radio in Memphis and is very plugged in, reviewed the Lawson transfer on the most recent "Eye on College Basketball" podcast and said that whomever gets involved with the Lawsons also have the inside track to additional younger nationally recruited siblings and a first cousin who is also nationally ranked. This isn't just a transfer, it's a potential inheritance!

[English]

Was that a "hire the dad as a coach" scenario?

It's a "the dad is very involved in his sons' decision-making and acts as public mouthpiece, as well as has been rumored to involve himself as much as possible in the program for whom his sons play" scenario. Unless it went unreported, I don't think Bill Self actually hired Lawson the elder.

[kako]

Crap. Colson's back. He's a matchup pain. Not sure why he's coming back, except that he was low first round instead of surefire first round.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/19126815/notre-dame-forward-bonzie-colson-return-senior-season

[CDu]

Crap. Colson's back. He's a matchup pain. Not sure why he's coming back, except that he was low first round instead of surefire first round.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/19126815/notre-dame-forward-bonzie-colson-return-senior-season

Well, he's an undersized C who wouldn't have been drafted in the first round. So I guess he decided that being the "big man on campus" was better than playing in the D-League. Maybe he tries to expand his game next year and convince a team that he can play PF at 6'5" in the NBA a la Barkley.

[Billy Dat]

Crap. Colson's back. He's a matchup pain. Not sure why he's coming back, except that he was low first round instead of surefire first round.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/19126815/notre-dame-forward-bonzie-colson-return-senior-season

He'll be in the conversation for preseason POY in both the conference and the nation, I'd imagine...the rare All American who comes back. Of course, last year, that guy was Grayson.

[Olympic Fan]

Great news ... Colson's return pretty much insures that Notre Dame will be solid next season.

Colson and Farrell (best PG in the ACC last season) give Brey a solid inside/outside combo. He has some holes to fill on the wing, but I like his foundation.

[BD80]

It's a "the dad is very involved in his sons' decision-making and acts as public mouthpiece, as well as has been rumored to involve himself as much as possible in the program for whom his sons play" scenario. Unless it went unreported, I don't think Bill Self actually hired Lawson the elder.

But hadn't Memphis hired the dad?

[DangerDevil]

But hadn't Memphis hired the dad?

The Dad (Keelon Lawson) was hired by Pastner as an assistant. When Tubby came in, the Dad was demoted to Director of Player Personnel.

This article also claims they considered transferring to Duke.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnists/geoff-calkins/2017/04/10/calkins-lawsons-kansas----and-keelon-lawson-explain-why/100291042

[Olympic Fan]

Oregon's Tyler Dorsey declare for the draft:

http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/oregons-tyler-dorsey-declares-for-2017-nba-draft-dillon-brooks-decision-looms/

Dillon Brooks is expected to announce soon.

Lose both of those guys (along with senior starters Dylan Ennis and Chris Boucher) and the Ducks are going to disappear as a top 10 team for awhile

[kAzE]

Well, he's an undersized C who wouldn't have been drafted in the first round. So I guess he decided that being the "big man on campus" was better than playing in the D-League. Maybe he tries to expand his game next year and convince a team that he can play PF at 6'5" in the NBA a la Barkley.

I really don't understand why Bonzie Colson is not viewed as a legit NBA prospect. Fine, he's "undersized," but his 7 foot wingspan, solid lower body, and incredible motor make him just as good a rebounder as most 6'9 guys. He's also proven that he's become a very reliable outside shooter, as well as a good free throw shooter, and would be an ideal power forward in the modern day NBA. For the life of me, I do not understand why you would not draft this guy in the early 2nd round. Is he just a bad defender or something? I've always thought very highly of him. To me, he seems like a poor man's Draymond, and I'll be glad when we never have to face him again. It seems like he's been having monster games against Duke for about 15 years.

I wish we could get some more guys like Bonzie Colson. Awesome players who get no NBA love are some of the the most valuable players in college basketball nowadays. Guys like Dillion Brooks, Brice Johnson, Sindarius Thornwell, and Amile Jefferson.

[CDu]

I really don't understand why Bonzie Colson is not viewed as a legit NBA prospect. Fine, he's "undersized," but his 7 foot wingspan, solid lower body, and incredible motor make him just as good a rebounder as most 6'9 guys. He's also proven that he's a very good outside shooter, and would be an ideal power forward in the modern day NBA. For the life of me, I do not understand why you would not draft this guy in the early 2nd round. Is he just a bad defender or something? I've always thought very highly of him. To me, he seems like a poor man's Draymond, and I'll be glad when we never have to face him again. It seems like he's been having monster games against Duke for about 15 years.

I'm not sure that he's proven he is a good outside shooter. He's made all of 31 career 3pt shots (26 this year). So maybe there are still doubts about his range? But I think the 6'5" thing is a big deal. Do I think that's fair? Probably not. But he has made his living thus far against 6'8"/6'9" guys. It's a bit different at the NBA level.

Like you said, early 2nd round pick seems reasonable. I suspect he wants to try to make that a 1st round pick. And showing off a more diverse skillset (better ability to score off the dribble, prove that this year's 26 3pt makes weren't a fluke, better passing skills, etc.) might help him do that.

[kAzE]

I'm not sure that he's proven he is a good outside shooter. He's made all of 31 career 3pt shots (26 this year). So maybe there are still doubts about his range? But I think the 6'5" thing is a big deal. Do I think that's fair? Probably not. But he has made his living thus far against 6'8"/6'9" guys. It's a bit different at the NBA level.

Like you said, early 2nd round pick seems reasonable. I suspect he wants to try to make that a 1st round pick. And showing off a more diverse skillset (better ability to score off the dribble, prove that this year's 26 3pt makes weren't a fluke, better passing skills, etc.) might help him do that.

It's true, he didn't really show his outside stroke until this year, so maybe another year of solid shooting will boost his stock. Still, if Chuck Hayes can play in the NBA 13 years, I'm almost certain Bonzie Colson can have a productive NBA career.

[BD80]

... But I think the 6'5" thing is a big deal. Do I think that's fair? Probably not. But he has made his living thus far against 6'8"/6'9" guys. It's a bit different at the NBA level. ...


It is such a big deal that the NBA always listed Charles Barkley at 6'6" or taller, and yet Sir Charles admits he was only 6'4" in his autobiography.

[CDu]

It's true, he didn't really show his outside stroke until this year, so maybe another year of solid shooting will boost his stock. Still, if Chuck Hayes can play in the NBA 13 years, I'm almost certain Bonzie Colson can have a productive NBA career.

Oh, I definitely think he can have a productive NBA career. I am merely talking about his draft stock. Hayes went undrafted. I think Colson would get drafted, and would find a role in the NBA. He just probably wouldn't go in Round 1 this year. And he isn't a "draft on potential" type of guy anyway, so it probably makes sense to come back and see if he can improve his stock.

Hopefully, the loss of Vasturia and Beachem will push Notre Dame down enough in talent that they don't pose a threat next year even with Colson.

[TruBlu]

I really don't understand why Bonzie Colson is not viewed as a legit NBA prospect. Fine, he's "undersized," but his 7 foot wingspan, solid lower body, and incredible motor make him just as good a rebounder as most 6'9 guys. He's also proven that he's become a very reliable outside shooter, as well as a good free throw shooter, and would be an ideal power forward in the modern day NBA. For the life of me, I do not understand why you would not draft this guy in the early 2nd round. Is he just a bad defender or something? I've always thought very highly of him. To me, he seems like a poor man's Draymond, and I'll be glad when we never have to face him again. It seems like he's been having monster games against Duke for about 15 years.

I wish we could get some more guys like Bonzie Colson. Awesome players who get no NBA love are some of the the most valuable players in college basketball nowadays. Guys like Dillion Brooks, Brice Johnson, Sindarius Thornwell, and Amile Jefferson.


If Bonzie had a neck, he would be about 6'8.

[English]

More non-ACC news out of Bloomington...

James Blackmon, Thomas Bryant, and Robert Johnson are testing the waters without an agent.

OG Anunoby previous announced he'd sign with an agent.

[gam7]

Zach Collins of Gonzaga University. In with agent.

Jarrett Allen of the University of Texas, Austin. Previously testing waters. Now will stay in and hire agent.

[Spanarkel]

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/19138140/lsu-top-scorer-antonio-blakeney-entering-nba-draft


(no relation to Dukie Kenny)

[superdave]

I'm not sure that he's proven he is a good outside shooter. He's made all of 31 career 3pt shots (26 this year). So maybe there are still doubts about his range? But I think the 6'5" thing is a big deal. Do I think that's fair? Probably not. But he has made his living thus far against 6'8"/6'9" guys. It's a bit different at the NBA level.

Like you said, early 2nd round pick seems reasonable. I suspect he wants to try to make that a 1st round pick. And showing off a more diverse skillset (better ability to score off the dribble, prove that this year's 26 3pt makes weren't a fluke, better passing skills, etc.) might help him do that.

Half of those makes have got to be against Duke, right?

The Draymond comparison is a bit much considering how well Draymond shoots and handles the ball. He can also guard a lot of positions on the floor.

I like Bonzie - tough competitor - but he may only get a cup of coffee in The League.

[CDu]

Half of those makes have got to be against Duke, right?

The Draymond comparison is a bit much considering how well Draymond shoots and handles the ball. He can also guard a lot of positions on the floor.

I like Bonzie - tough competitor - but he may only get a cup of coffee in The League.

Yeah, Colson's junior year was pretty comparable to Green's senior year in many respects. But he isn't nearly the ballhandler or passer that Green was (Green averaged 4.1 assists per game as a junior and 3.8 assists per game as a senior), nor is he as proven a shooter (like Colson, Green didn't establish his 3pt range until his junior year, but he hit 37 3s as a junior and 52 as a senior).

[Spanarkel]

Yeah, Colson's junior year was pretty comparable to Green's senior year in many respects. But he isn't nearly the ballhandler or passer that Green was (Green averaged 4.1 assists per game as a junior and 3.8 assists per game as a senior), nor is he as proven a shooter (like Colson, Green didn't establish his 3pt range until his junior year, but he hit 37 3s as a junior and 52 as a senior).

Draymond's "on ball" skills are also more developed and polished than Bonzie's(just ask Lebron, Steven Adams or others:rolleyes:).

[FerryFor50]

Zach Collins of Gonzaga University. In with agent.



Zach Collins decided that if he's going to foul out of a game illegitimately, he might as well get paid doing it.

[gam7]

Zach Collins decided that if he's going to foul out of a game illegitimately, he might as well get paid doing it.

He also thought it would be nice to be able to rack up an extra foul...

[gam7]

By my count, as of today, there are 29 committed early entries and about double that number of players still testing the waters.

[scottdude8]

Didn't see it mentioned yet, but Michigan's Mo Wagner and DJ Wilson are testing the waters. Mo has already made a few statements that indicate he'll be back unless he gets amazing reviews. DJ is projected by some as a late first rounder so he's more up in the air.

As a Michigan fan I'm sad because with both of those guys back, Michigan is likely a B1G favorite next year. One of them, they're top tier of the conference. Lose them both and we'll need another Beilein miracle growth from one of our young bigs to even make the tourney.

[Olympic Fan]

By my count, as of today, there are 29 committed early entries and about double that number of players still testing the waters.

As of noon today, there are 84 undergraduates who have entered the NBA draft:

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2017/03/2017-nba-draft-early-entrants-list.html

Not sure how many are in to stay or are testing the waters.

[gam7]

As of noon today, there are 84 undergraduates who have entered the NBA draft:

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2017/03/2017-nba-draft-early-entrants-list.html

Not sure how many are in to stay or are testing the waters.

Their names listed with asterisks indicate the player is expected to stay in. And they have 29 names with asterisks!

[DukeTrinity11]

WOJ BOMB!!!

https://twitter.com/WojVerticalNBA/status/852211363816636416

Bridges is close to a lock to be a lottery pick this year but if he returns, then you Preseason #1 team next year will be Michigan State unless Duke gets Duval and Allen back.

MSU's freshman Jaren Jackson Jr. has looked very impressive in the HS All-Star games.

[Olympic Fan]

WOJ BOMB!!!

https://twitter.com/WojVerticalNBA/status/852211363816636416

Bridges is close to a lock to be a lottery pick this year but if he returns, then you Preseason #1 team next year will be Michigan State unless Duke gets Duval and Allen back.

MSU's freshman Jaren Jackson Jr. has looked very impressive in the HS All-Star games.

Good news for Michigan State.

I agree that they could easily be the preseason No. 1 team (assuming Woj is right and Bridges stays)

If next season follows Izzo's track record, they start No. 1 ... finish something like 24-8 and No. 15 in the final AP poll ... then make a run to the Final Four and Izzo is proclaimed a genius.

Just kidding ... it does set up a great game in the Champions Classic in November -- Duke vs. Michigan State.

Bridges' decision leaves UNC's Justin Jackson and Duke's Grayson Allen as the two high profile prospects still waiting on a decision.

[gam7]

Good news for Michigan State.

I agree that they could easily be the preseason No. 1 team (assuming Woj is right and Bridges stays)

If next season follows Izzo's track record, they start No. 1 ... finish something like 24-8 and No. 15 in the final AP poll ... then make a run to the Final Four and Izzo is proclaimed a genius.

Just kidding ... it does set up a great game in the Champions Classic in November -- Duke vs. Michigan State.

Bridges' decision leaves UNC's Justin Jackson and Duke's Grayson Allen as the two high profile prospects still waiting on a decision.

Josh Jackson hasn't declared yet either.

Michigan State is also probably the favorite to land 2017's Brian Bowen who I think is my favorite player in the class. I see a young Richard Hamilton in Bowen. He makes plays all over the court, and he wins.

[Olympic Fan]

Some more ACC transfer news ... including some significant players.

A.J. Turner is leaving Boston College. He was probably their third best player.

Matz Stockman is leaving Louisville to transfer to Minnesota. He was a sub, but he's a nice big man whose role would have gotten bigger next season with Mathiang graduating.

Finally, Justise Kithcart is leaving Pitt for Old Dominion. He's a marginal player, but he's also the fourth Pitt player to transfer ... and their top four players are graduating.

If I'm counting right, that means that C-F Ryan Luther and C Rozelle Nix are the only two scholarship players returning ... and his recruiting class is not that hot on paper (one 4-star PG, a three star C, a three star PG, a juco wing, a 2-star center and an unrated Canadian wing).

Right now, you gotta rate Pitt 15th in next season's preseason ACC poll, giving BC a good chance to climb out of last place for the first time since 2014.

[FerryFor50]

WOJ BOMB!!!

https://twitter.com/WojVerticalNBA/status/852211363816636416

Bridges is close to a lock to be a lottery pick this year but if he returns, then you Preseason #1 team next year will be Michigan State unless Duke gets Duval and Allen back.

MSU's freshman Jaren Jackson Jr. has looked very impressive in the HS All-Star games.

I guess we can add Izzo's name next to Roy's on the list of coaches most able to convince 1st round talent to return to school.

[scottdude8]

Well, Bridges coming back makes the news I posted about my beloved Wolverines hurt even more :(

Let's hope that the fact that MSU underachieved so significantly this season, even with Bridges, was a sign of more disappointment to come next year!

[DukeTrinity11]

Well, Bridges coming back makes the news I posted about my beloved Wolverines hurt even more :(

Let's hope that the fact that MSU underachieved so significantly this season, even with Bridges, was a sign of more disappointment to come next year!
Did they underachieve though? They started at least 3 freshman for the majority of the season and only Bridges was a bonafide blue chip recruit.

I knew it would be a rough year for MSU after losing Denzel Valentine, Bryn Forbes, Matt Costello and Deyonta Davis. That's a lot of production to replace and even Izzo isn't a miracle worker.

[CDu]

Did they underachieve though? They started at least 3 freshman for the majority of the season and only Bridges was a bonafide blue chip recruit.

I knew it would be a rough year for MSU after losing Denzel Valentine, Bryn Forbes, Matt Costello and Deyonta Davis. That's a lot of production to replace and even Izzo isn't a miracle worker.

Not to mention they suffered some early/pre-season injuries to some of their veterans. I would not call this year an underachievement for MSU.

[scottdude8]

Not to mention they suffered some early/pre-season injuries to some of their veterans. I would not call this year an underachievement for MSU.

Fair enough. They underachieved relative to the program's standards, their preseason ranking, etc., maybe not compared to realistic expectations. Still, I would argue they definitely failed the eye test in terms of effort, basketball IQ, etc. (things that MSU has always excelled in regardless of talent level or experience) throughout the season... behind their record, MSU had a LOT of really ugly losses as well as some very lucky wins.

So, point well taken regarding the reasonable expectations for the team last year. However, I think most people who watched them closely would still say their season was a massive disappointment based not just on the record, but also the way they played throughout the year.

[TexHawk]

Did they underachieve though? They started at least 3 freshman for the majority of the season and only Bridges was a bonafide blue chip recruit.

I knew it would be a rough year for MSU after losing Denzel Valentine, Bryn Forbes, Matt Costello and Deyonta Davis. That's a lot of production to replace and even Izzo isn't a miracle worker.

It depends on your definition of "blue chip". Josh Langford was a Top 15 recruit, and Nick Ward/Cassius Winston were both Top 50. Add those 4 to Tum Tum, Eron Harris (multi-year starter), and Matt McQuaid (42% 3pt shooter as a freshman)... that's a team with some good players. In terms of pedigree, they arguably had the most talent on paper in the conference. Injuries and the inability of a couple of those guys to find a role (especially Langford) really torpedoed their season.

With everything that happened, I don't think it was a massive underachievement, but it also didn't need "miracle work" from the head coach to be better than 10-8 in a craptastic Big10.

[TexHawk]

Svi Mykhailiuk is entering the draft (http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19143245/svi-mykhailiuk-kansas-jayhawks-enter-nba-draft-hire-agent), no agent.

[Spanarkel]

Svi Mykhailiuk is entering the draft (http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19143245/svi-mykhailiuk-kansas-jayhawks-enter-nba-draft-hire-agent), no agent.

Good luck! Not saying he can't succeed in the NBA, but only two Ukrainian players have ever played over 200 NBA games(Potapenko--now coaching on the Cavaliers--and Medvedenko). Former Terp Alex Len plays for Phoenix(with very modest stats) and Joel Bolomboy is on the Jazz roster.

[Olympic Fan]

Dillon Brooks is putting his name in and hiring an agent:

http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/oregon-loses-another-star-as-leading-scorer-dillon-brooks-is-leaving-for-the-nba-draft/

[luburch]

Justin Jackson is entering and hiring an agent.

[ChillinDuke]

Justin Jackson is entering and hiring an agent.

Expected. Good news for Duke fans nonetheless.

- Chillin

[flyingdutchdevil]

Expected. Good news for Duke fans nonetheless.

- Chillin

Can Joel Berry follow him? IMO, he's by far their best player and the best PG in the ACC next year (as well as this year).

[duketaylor]

uncheats gonna have some work to do to be good next year.

[flyingdutchdevil]

uncheats gonna have some work to do to be good next year.

No. They will be good.

[Spanarkel]

Justin Jackson is entering and hiring an agent.

So long, farewell, auf wiedersehen, goodbye and good riddance. I've never seen a so called "shooter" miss so many 3s so badly(he does have a good floater).

[Billy Dat]

Good luck! Not saying he can't succeed in the NBA, but only two Ukrainian players have ever played over 200 NBA games(Potapenko--now coaching on the Cavaliers--and Medvedenko). Former Terp Alex Len plays for Phoenix(with very modest stats) and Joel Bolomboy is on the Jazz roster.

I was listening to a recent edition of Sam Vecenie's "Game Theory" podcast and he mentioned guys like Svi and Kentucky's Isaac Humphries (Aussie) may be turning pro with an eye toward playing overseas since they are well known by their home countries and have the advantage of not counting against ex-US leagues' American quotas (most non US club teams only allow 2 Americans per roster).

[ChillinDuke]

No. They will be good.

Without Jackson, that all depends on Bradley. If he stays, they'll be good enough. If he leaves, what is their starting front line: Luke Maye + ______ ?

Berry, Pinson, Maye, Kenny Williams form a decent core. But they are sorely lacking in depth, and the traditional UNC rebounding corps will be a total question mark.

Plus Williams is sort of the cookie cutter shooter for UNC - 6ppg on 24mpg and <34% from deep. Pinson is also not a good shooter (<25% from deep). Maye is passable at 40% from deep this past season but only on 40 attempts.

If Bradley goes, we're talking about Joel Berry and a bunch of questionable shooters without their typical rebounding prowess and a bench that looks shallow. If Bradley returns, they'll be good enough. Is he still "testing the waters" as of now?

- Chillin

[atoomer0881]

Without Jackson, that all depends on Bradley. If he stays, they'll be good enough. If he leaves, what is their starting front line: Luke Maye + ______ ?

Berry, Pinson, Maye, Kenny Williams form a decent core. But they are sorely lacking in depth, and the traditional UNC rebounding corps will be a total question mark.

Plus Williams is sort of the cookie cutter shooter for UNC - 6ppg on 24mpg and <34% from deep. Pinson is also not a good shooter (<25% from deep). Maye is passable at 40% from deep this past season but only on 40 attempts.

If Bradley goes, we're talking about Joel Berry and a bunch of questionable shooters without their typical rebounding prowess and a bench that looks shallow. If Bradley returns, they'll be good enough. Is he still "testing the waters" as of now?

- Chillin

I wonder with Jackson declaring, if that opens the door up for them to get Kevin Knox though... :-/

[ChillinDuke]

I wonder with Jackson declaring, if that opens the door up for them to get Kevin Knox though... :-/

That same door has been open. It's been a near certainty that Jackson would leave basically as soon as he started having a good year. I don't think this changes anything - other than the incremental probability of his leaving going from 99% to 100%. So I don't think Knox's decision / view will change at all.

- Chillin

[CDu]

It is hard to say at this point how good UNC will be until we know who is on the roster. Bradley and Berry are still up in the air, and they haven't added any transfers yet. And they are still in play for Knox.

If they lose Bradley and Berry and don't get Knox or any good transfers, they will not be good.

[atoomer0881]

That same door has been open. It's been a near certainty that Jackson would leave basically as soon as he started having a good year. I don't think this changes anything - other than the incremental probability of his leaving going from 99% to 100%. So I don't think Knox's decision / view will change at all.

- Chillin

That's a good point that I hadn't really considered. So you're probably right. If Knox does end up picking the UNCheat, then it probably has nothing to do with Jackson's decision becoming official, since as you said, it's been a foregone conclusion for some time now.

[Natty_B]

Without Jackson, that all depends on Bradley. If he stays, they'll be good enough. If he leaves, what is their starting front line: Luke Maye + ______ ?
If Bradley returns, they'll be good enough. Is he still "testing the waters" as of now?



Testing still but isn't listed in the Draft Express 17 draft (projected as pick 23 in the 18 draft) and is listed at 35 in the less reliable nbadraft.net (but that does provide a picture of where he would stand if he stayed in) so I think it's safe to project he's staying. Add Bradley to the UNC core - and maybe Knox and you've got a strong team. Even without Knox they will be good next year.

[CDu]

That's a good point that I hadn't really considered. So you're probably right. If Knox does end up picking the UNCheat, then it probably has nothing to do with Jackson's decision becoming official, since as you said, it's been a foregone conclusion for some time now.

Yeah, Knox said as much a few weeks ago. UNC has been pitching the fact that Jackson is leaving as part of their recruiting pitch to Knox.

[brevity]

Justin Jackson is entering and hiring an agent.

Link (http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/north-carolinas-justin-jackson-will-forgo-senior-year-and-enter-2017-nba-draft/). Had to make sure, because I couldn't believe it. Dean would have convinced him to stay.

The mock GM of the Charlotte Hornets might consider him for the probable #11 pick in this year's DBR draft. The real GM won't be doing much thinking under the terms of the team owner's Chapel Hill Outreach Program.

[WiJoe]

good riddance, squidward.

[Olympic Fan]

Can Joel Berry follow him? IMO, he's by far their best player and the best PG in the ACC next year (as well as this year).

(1) Joel Berry isn't considering the draft

(2) I agree that he was their best player

(3) I disagree that he was the best PG in the ACC (or will be next year) -- True, he outscored Notre Dame's Matt Farrell by a hair (14. 6 to 14.1), but Farrell was better in almost every other category that we measure point guards -- assists (5.45 to 4.0), assist to turnover ratio (2.15 to 1.8), steals, 3-point percentage (.420 to .392) and had a slight edge in over FG percentage.

Matt Farrell was the best point guard in the ACC last season ... and has to be given the edge going into next year.

PS Don't believe the mock drafts on Bradley ... if he stays in the draft, he WILL get a first round guarantee. The mock drafts are curious. Draft Express, which I agree is the best draft source, had him listed in the early 20s up until the point he declared for the draft -- then they took him off their 2017 mock draft. Chad Ford said in a column in late March that if Bradley came out, he would be top 20 in the draft, but that Ford didn't expect him to come out -- that was before he put his name in the draft. I know two NBA scouts pretty well and they both told me all year that Bradley was the best pro prospect on that team -- both said 15-20 if he comes out.

I don't know what Bradley ends up doing, but I think there is a much better chance he stays in and is taken in the first round that some think.

PPS In new news -- South Carolina's PJ Dozier is in the draft and Wake's John Collins confirms what I was told a week ago -- he's hiring an agent and staying in the draft.

[Natty_B]

I don't know what Bradley ends up doing, but I think there is a much better chance he stays in and is taken in the first round that some think.

True - I can see a pretty plausible scenario where a few teams outside the lottery, but well within the first round, fall in love with taking a shot on Bradley and that convinces him to keep his name in the draft. Very will could be over a month until we know for sure.

[flyingdutchdevil]

(1) Joel Berry isn't considering the draft

(2) I agree that he was their best player

(3) I disagree that he was the best PG in the ACC (or will be next year) -- True, he outscored Notre Dame's Matt Farrell by a hair (14. 6 to 14.1), but Farrell was better in almost every other category that we measure point guards -- assists (5.45 to 4.0), assist to turnover ratio (2.15 to 1.8), steals, 3-point percentage (.420 to .392) and had a slight edge in over FG percentage.

Matt Farrell was the best point guard in the ACC last season ... and has to be given the edge going into next year.

PS Don't believe the mock drafts on Bradley ... if he stays in the draft, he WILL get a first round guarantee. The mock drafts are curious. Draft Express, which I agree is the best draft source, had him listed in the early 20s up until the point he declared for the draft -- then they took him off their 2017 mock draft. Chad Ford said in a column in late March that if Bradley came out, he would be top 20 in the draft, but that Ford didn't expect him to come out -- that was before he put his name in the draft. I know two NBA scouts pretty well and they both told me all year that Bradley was the best pro prospect on that team -- both said 15-20 if he comes out.

I don't know what Bradley ends up doing, but I think there is a much better chance he stays in and is taken in the first round that some think.

PPS In new news -- South Carolina's PJ Dozier is in the draft and Wake's John Collins confirms what I was told a week ago -- he's hiring an agent and staying in the draft.

I guess we'll agree to disagree. Stats don't tell the whole picture. In the games that I saw with UNC (limited to probably a dozen), Berry's presence transcended stats (kinda like Cook during his senior year). He was their leader, their steady hand, and a very solid defensive player. I think Farrell is a very good PG, but I'm taking Berry any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

I'd be shocked that, if Berry comes back, he isn't Pre-Season ACC Player of the Year. Yes - even if Grayson comes back.

[sagegrouse]

I guess we'll agree to disagree. Stats don't tell the whole picture. In the games that I saw with UNC (limited to probably a dozen), Berry's presence transcended stats (kinda like Cook during his senior year). He was their leader, their steady hand, and a very solid defensive player. I think Farrell is a very good PG, but I'm taking Berry any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

I'd be shocked that, if Berry comes back, he isn't Pre-Season ACC Player of the Year. Yes - even if Grayson comes back.

I am inclined to agree with you, FDD. I thought Berry's play was often transcendent -- National Championship game, holy cow! Farrell is something else because of his power and clutch play, but Berry gets the overall nod.

Besides, touting Berry gives me the chance once more to think back on Derryck's game-saving block in Chapel Hill in 2016.

[Olympic Fan]

I guess we'll agree to disagree. Stats don't tell the whole picture. In the games that I saw with UNC (limited to probably a dozen), Berry's presence transcended stats (kinda like Cook during his senior year). He was their leader, their steady hand, and a very solid defensive player. I think Farrell is a very good PG, but I'm taking Berry any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

I'd be shocked that, if Berry comes back, he isn't Pre-Season ACC Player of the Year. Yes - even if Grayson comes back.

It's typical to rate a good player on a great team over an even better player on a good team. We'll never know what happens if you swap the two, but I'd argue that UNC with Farrell is better and Notre Dame with Berry is worse.

If anything, Farrell's superiority over Berry is even more significant than the stats -- since North Carolina played a significantly faster tempo, Berry's slight edge in points is a function of tempo ... and Harrell's big edge in assists is even more significant than the raw numbers.

I do agree that Berry could be ACC preseason player of the year ... but how much weight do you give that, considering that these are the same voters who picked Justin Jackson over Luke Kennard (and Bonzie Colson) for 2017 player of the year.

[Olympic Fan]

True - I can see a pretty plausible scenario where a few teams outside the lottery, but well within the first round, fall in love with taking a shot on Bradley and that convinces him to keep his name in the draft. Very will could be over a month until we know for sure.

FWIW... Chad Ford has his new big board up today. It's insider stuff, so I can't link, but it does include Bradley at No. 23.

It also has Tatum No. 4, Giles No. 13, Kennard up to No. 18.

Other ACC guys: Issac No. 6, Smith No. 8, Collins No. 22 and Jackson No. 26 (he has Donovan Mitchell among his top five outside the first round)

Interesting that Bradley is ranked ahead of Jackson - and almost even with Wake's Collins.

[DukeTrinity11]

If UNC loses Berry and Bradley, they will be a NIT team next year even if they get Kevin Knox.

Guards reign supreme in college basketball and UNC will be trotting out the likes of Jalek Felton and Seventh Woods vs. potential ACC guards like Matt Farrell, Bryant Crawford, Grayson Allen, Trevon Duval, Frank Jackson, Quentin Snider, Donovan Mitchell, Kyle Guy, Ty Jerome and MJ Walker.

I know many of you will disagree with me but I'm of the opinion that UNC and UK will be very bad next year.

Kentucky's used to starting freshman phenoms like John Wall, Brandon Knight, Marquis Teague, Harrison Twins, Devin Booker, Jamal Murray, De'Aaron Fox, Malik Monk, etc. but Quade Green and Shai-Gilgeous Alexander don't project to be nearly that good as freshmen.

Imagine if Duke's starting backcourt next year was a freshman Derryck Thornton and a freshman Quinn Cook, how worried would ya"ll be? That's essentially what Jalek Felton, Quade Green and SGA project to be as based on their HS RSCI ranking.

[Troublemaker]

Allonzo Trier back to school (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/allonzo-triers-return-makes-arizona-leading-candidate-preseason-no-1-174801087.html).

Arizona looking like Preseason #1 at this point.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Allonzo Trier back to school (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/allonzo-triers-return-makes-arizona-leading-candidate-preseason-no-1-174801087.html).

Arizona looking like Preseason #1 at this point.

With Parker Jackson-Cartwright coming back and Trier as the #1 option next year, is Zona in the running for Duval? Interesting...

I don't think Duke is the favorite. I think playing overseas is the favorite. But I do think Duke is the college ball favorite.

[Troublemaker]

With Parker Jackson-Cartwright coming back and Trier as the #1 option next year, is Zona in the running for Duval? Interesting...

I don't think Duke is the favorite. I think playing overseas is the favorite. But I do think Duke is the college ball favorite.

Sean Miller wouldn't hesitate to send PJC to the bench in favor of Duval. I'm sure Miller's made Duval aware of that. Zona is in it.

[Spanarkel]

If UNC loses Berry and Bradley, they will be a NIT team next year even if they get Kevin Knox.

Guards reign supreme in college basketball and UNC will be trotting out the likes of Jalek Felton and Seventh Woods vs. potential ACC guards like Matt Farrell, Bryant Crawford, Grayson Allen, Trevon Duval, Frank Jackson, Quentin Snider, Donovan Mitchell, Kyle Guy, Ty Jerome and MJ Walker.

I know many of you will disagree with me but I'm of the opinion that UNC and UK will be very bad next year.

Kentucky's used to starting freshman phenoms like John Wall, Brandon Knight, Marquis Teague, Harrison Twins, Devin Booker, Jamal Murray, De'Aaron Fox, Malik Monk, etc. but Quade Green and Shai-Gilgeous Alexander don't project to be nearly that good as freshmen.

Imagine if Duke's starting backcourt next year was a freshman Derryck Thornton and a freshman Quinn Cook, how worried would ya"ll be? That's essentially what Jalek Felton, Quade Green and SGA project to be as based on their HS RSCI ranking.

UK also has 6'5'' SG Hamidou Diallo(RSCI no. 10) and 6'2" SG Jemarl Baker(RSCI no. 81/originally committed to California, then to Cal). Diallo was at UK and practiced with the team winter term: he sounds like he could be a major force.

[Olympic Fan]

UK also has 6'5'' SG Hamidou Diallo(RSCI no. 10) and 6'2" SG Jemarl Baker(RSCI no. 81/originally committed to California, then to Cal). Diallo was at UK and practiced with the team winter term: he sounds like he could be a major force.

Let's avoid extremes in this debate. Kentucky is not going to be BAD, but I agree that it doesn't look like this will be a top 10 Kentucky team. I agree that the two freshman point guards aren't all that and Diallo looks like the only other perimeter option. Their current recruiting class doesn't include a top 10 prospect -- and won't, unless they land Bamba (very possible) or Knox (very unlikely).

But their biggest problem is the lack of a veteran core. For all the one and done talk, Calipari's best teams have always had a strong upperclass core. This team has Wenyen Gabriel and a couple of guys who barely played (Sacha Killeya-Jones and Isaac Humphries). Put together a substandard recruiting class (by Calipari standards) and a weak core ... and Kentucky could very well struggle to make the NCAA Tournament.

UNC's future depends on two decisions -- whether Tony Bradley stays in the draft and whether Kevin Knox decides to play at UNC. Add those two to Joel Berry (who is returning), Theo Pinson and their promising young guards (Felton, Woods, Williams and Robinson) and the Cheats could be pretty good. Take both of them out of the picture and the Cheats will struggle to be an NCAA team.

Of course, you can say much the same of Duke -- give us Grayson, Duval and Knox and we're a top 5 team ... give us none of them and we'll be a borderline NCAA team

[ndkjr70]

Let's avoid extremes in this debate. Kentucky is not going to be BAD, but I agree that it doesn't look like this will be a top 10 Kentucky team. I agree that the two freshman point guards aren't all that and Diallo looks like the only other perimeter option. Their current recruiting class doesn't include a top 10 prospect -- and won't, unless they land Bamba (very possible) or Knox (very unlikely).

But their biggest problem is the lack of a veteran core. For all the one and done talk, Calipari's best teams have always had a strong upperclass core. This team has Wenyen Gabriel and a couple of guys who barely played (Sacha Killeya-Jones and Isaac Humphries). Put together a substandard recruiting class (by Calipari standards) and a weak core ... and Kentucky could very well struggle to make the NCAA Tournament.

UNC's future depends on two decisions -- whether Tony Bradley stays in the draft and whether Kevin Knox decides to play at UNC. Add those two to Joel Berry (who is returning), Theo Pinson and their promising young guards (Felton, Woods, Williams and Robinson) and the Cheats could be pretty good. Take both of them out of the picture and the Cheats will struggle to be an NCAA team.

Of course, you can say much the same of Duke -- give us Grayson, Duval and Knox and we're a top 5 team ... give us none of them and we'll be a borderline NCAA team

Regarding the bolded: I've seen you (maybe it wasn't you) say this multiple times in multiple threads as if this has been confirmed. Many of my friends, current and former UNC alumnus, have said they're 50/50 on whether or not he comes back. This is definitely not a done-deal.

[DukeTrinity11]

But their biggest problem is the lack of a veteran core. For all the one and done talk, Calipari's best teams have always had a strong upperclass core. This team has Wenyen Gabriel and a couple of guys who barely played (Sacha Killeya-Jones and Isaac Humphries). Put together a substandard recruiting class (by Calipari standards) and a weak core ... and Kentucky could very well struggle to make the NCAA Tournament.
Isaac Humphries has announced that he's leaving UK and going pro in his home country of Australia.

Kentucky might be setting a record for least amount of scoring returning from the previous history for any team in NCAA history if Bam Adebayo stays in the draft. Wenyen Gabriel would be their only returnee who did anything whatsoever last year.

[ChillinDuke]

Regarding the bolded: I've seen you (maybe it wasn't you) say this multiple times in multiple threads as if this has been confirmed. Many of my friends, current and former UNC alumnus, have said they're 50/50 on whether or not he comes back. This is definitely not a done-deal.

I think the short answer is it has not been confirmed.

That said, there's a verrry low probability that he'd leave. For example, he's not even listed on the NBADraft.net Top 100 Big Board - not that that's the best site for mock drafts, but a Top-100 seems to get the point across. So, while you're friends may be 50/50 on his returning, most metrics seem to point strongly to there not being a major market for Mr. Berry's professional services, at least in the NBA.

I think it's a more-than-safe bet that he's coming back.

- Chillin

[tbyers11]

Let's avoid extremes in this debate. Kentucky is not going to be BAD, but I agree that it doesn't look like this will be a top 10 Kentucky team. I agree that the two freshman point guards aren't all that and Diallo looks like the only other perimeter option. Their current recruiting class doesn't include a top 10 prospect -- and won't, unless they land Bamba (very possible) or Knox (very unlikely).

But their biggest problem is the lack of a veteran core. For all the one and done talk, Calipari's best teams have always had a strong upperclass core. This team has Wenyen Gabriel and a couple of guys who barely played (Sacha Killeya-Jones and Isaac Humphries). Put together a substandard recruiting class (by Calipari standards) and a weak core ... and Kentucky could very well struggle to make the NCAA Tournament.


Isaac Humphries declared with agent. Appears he is ready to try his luck overseas, if NBA doesn't pan out. He is Aussie so that helps.

However, that makes your point on UK even stronger. If Bam Adebayo stays in the draft, the returning player with the 2nd most minutes behind Gabriel is Killeya-Jones and he played a total of 96 minutes and didn't appear in a game after Jan 21st. This will be a young team, even by Calipari's standards. I don't think they will be BAD as they have 5 top 25ish recurits coming in but most of those are interior players. Will be an interesting team

[PackMan97]

confirmed: Maverick Rowan has decided to leave NC State's program.

unconfirmed: Most likely destination is overseas.

[DukeTrinity11]

Isaac Humphries declared with agent. Appears he is ready to try his luck overseas, if NBA doesn't pan out. He is Aussie so that helps.

However, that makes your point on UK even stronger. If Bam Adebayo stays in the draft, the returning player with the 2nd most minutes behind Gabriel is Killeya-Jones and he played a total of 96 minutes and didn't appear in a game after Jan 21st. This will be a young team, even by Calipari's standards. I don't think they will be BAD as they have 5 top 25ish recruits coming in but most of those are interior players. Will be an interesting team
Another reason to be skeptical about UK is that I firmly believe that the SEC will be a better conference than the ACC next year.

Alabama is adding Collin Sexton (who's looked more impressive than Duval on the HS All-Star circuit) and John Petty to Braxton Key and Dazon Ingram.
Texas A&M is returning lottery pick Robert Williams and DJ Hogg.
Missouri is adding Michael Porter Jr. who could be the best player in the country next year.
SC could get Dozier back but just keeping Felder and Silva should keep them a competitive team.
Florida looks to be a title contender with Chiozza and Allen in the backcourt plus Hayes down low and they may get Devin Robinson back.

[ndkjr70]

I think the short answer is it has not been confirmed.

That said, there's a verrry low probability that he'd leave. For example, he's not even listed on the NBADraft.net Top 100 Big Board - not that that's the best site for mock drafts, but a Top-100 seems to get the point across. So, while you're friends may be 50/50 on his returning, most metrics seem to point strongly to there not being a major market for Mr. Berry's professional services, at least in the NBA.

I think it's a more-than-safe bet that he's coming back.

- Chillin
I'll see your logic and raise you mine: you've got a chance of minutes being taken away with a stud new PG coming in. Your best wing player, and the two top preforming big men are all gone. Is there that much more you can get out of staying an extra year in college? If the ultimate goal is the NBA, do you risk having a down year after your best scoring options leave and defenses can focus on solely you?

[Olympic Fan]

Regarding the bolded: I've seen you (maybe it wasn't you) say this multiple times in multiple threads as if this has been confirmed. Many of my friends, current and former UNC alumnus, have said they're 50/50 on whether or not he comes back. This is definitely not a done-deal.

It's me that has been insisting that Berry is staying.

I admit that it has been confirmed anywhere. But I do have sources (the same sources that told me that John Collins was going to hire an agent long before that was confirmed) and they all assure me that it's a done deal. Berry is staying at UNC. You don't have to believe that, but I'll continue to believe that until proven wrong. BTW, in your response to Chillin, you suggest that one reason he might go is "you've got a chance of minutes being taken away with a stud new PG coming in."

The other reasons you site are valid, but no danger at all that Berry loses minutes to Felton. We were just talking about the Kentucky point guards being less than impact guys -- but Quade Green is rated higher than Felton, a borderline 4-5 star prospect. I think Felton will play next season and will play well at times, but he won't be taking minutes from Berry.

PS The report that Mile Bridges is returning to Michigan State that we talked about yesterday was just officially confirmed this afternoon.

[MChambers]

The report that Mile Bridges is returning to Michigan State that we talked about yesterday was just officially confirmed this afternoon.
MSU is going to have a very talented frontline next year and a decent backcourt. I'm very surprised that Bridges is returning, but good for him.

[Rich]

UNC's future depends on two decisions -- whether Tony Bradley stays in the draft and whether Kevin Knox decides to play at UNC. Add those two to Joel Berry (who is returning), Theo Pinson and their promising young guards (Felton, Woods, Williams and Robinson) and the Cheats could be pretty good. Take both of them out of the picture and the Cheats will struggle to be an NCAA team.

OF, assuming you're right about Joel Berry staying, if Tony Bradley leaves do you think that affects Knox's decision NOT to go to the Heels? Why would he want to join a team that's going to struggle just to make the Tourney? Not to mention the legal issues still hanging around.

[Olympic Fan]

OF, assuming you're right about Joel Berry staying, if Tony Bradley leaves do you think that affects Knox's decision NOT to go to the Heels? Why would he want to join a team that's going to struggle just to make the Tourney? Not to mention the legal issues still hanging around.

I'm the wrong person to ask. What would a rational person, who wanted to be one-and-done even consider a school that:

(1) has made industry into turning one and done players into three and four year players?

(2) has a very good chance of being on probation next spring ... remember all the sympathy for Lee and Lewis at Louisville in 2016, who didn't get to play in the NCAA Tournament because Louisville was on probation? If Knox picks UNC and he doesn't get to play in the ACC and NCAA Tournament, I don't want to hear any sympathy for him. He's making his choice fully aware that such a penalty is a very real possibility.

[Troublemaker]

MSU is going to have a very talented frontline next year and a decent backcourt. I'm very surprised that Bridges is returning, but good for him.

Preseason #2.

So, Zona #1, MSU #2 so far... let's see if Duke can join them in the top 5 once the dust settles on our roster.

(I'm somewhat kidding; we'll do preseason rankings when all the dust settles for every team, but those two look very strong right now.)


I think the short answer is it has not been confirmed.

That said, there's a verrry low probability that he'd leave. For example, he's not even listed on the NBADraft.net Top 100 Big Board - not that that's the best site for mock drafts, but a Top-100 seems to get the point across. So, while you're friends may be 50/50 on his returning, most metrics seem to point strongly to there not being a major market for Mr. Berry's professional services, at least in the NBA.

I think it's a more-than-safe bet that he's coming back.

- Chillin

One big factor is possible pending sanctions. I feel every UNC player with a decision to make is more likely to leave than would-be-typical because of the third NOA.

Of course, Oly has a source he trusts regarding Berry, which takes the fun out of it. But if it weren't for that, I'd be leaning towards Berry leaving, despite his seemingly nonexistent draft stock.

[yancem]

I think the short answer is it has not been confirmed.

That said, there's a verrry low probability that he'd leave. For example, he's not even listed on the NBADraft.net Top 100 Big Board - not that that's the best site for mock drafts, but a Top-100 seems to get the point across. So, while you're friends may be 50/50 on his returning, most metrics seem to point strongly to there not being a major market for Mr. Berry's professional services, at least in the NBA.

I think it's a more-than-safe bet that he's coming back.

- Chillin

Draft position didn't stop shavlik or dozens of other players that simply didn't want to to stay in a school for one reason or another. Doesn't mean he's leaving, just saying....

[ICP]

MSU is going to have a very talented frontline next year and a decent backcourt. I'm very surprised that Bridges is returning, but good for him.

He was projected as a borderline lottery pick, yet he said he is staying because he has some unfinished business left to do: the adoring student crowd went wild. Fun times for the Spartans. I wish we could benefit from one of these pleasant surprises soon, I think Singler might be the last potential lottery pick to come back to school, but no one since that I can think off. Even late first round guys like Tyus left...

[Olympic Fan]

He was projected as a borderline lottery pick, yet he said he is staying because he has some unfinished business left to do: the adoring student crowd went wild. Fun times for the Spartans. I wish we could benefit from one of these pleasant surprises soon, I think Singler might be the last potential lottery pick to come back to school, but no one since that I can think off. Even late first round guys like Tyus left...

I think the last projected lottery pick to stay at Duke was Jason Williams in 2001. He was widely expected to go No. 1 ... Seth Davis vowed to eat his hat if Jason returned ... (don't think Seth ever lived up to his bet).

I can think of several projected first round picks who returned, but I don't think any of them were lottery picks -- J.J. Redick and Shelden Williams in 2005, Josh McRoberts in 2006, Kyle Singler in 2010, Grayson Allen in 2016. Maybe Mason Plumlee in 2012.

It's pretty remarkable when a projected lottery pick returns to school, but not that surprising when a late first-round projection comes back.

[gofurman]

Here's my latest ACC update. Please, if you have any additions or corrections, post here:

Underclassmen to the NBA (*might return)
Jayson Tatum, Duke
Luke Kennard, Duke
Harry Giles, Duke
Dwayne Bacon, FSU
Jonathan Isaac, FSU
Xavier Rathan-Mayes, FSU
Donovan Mitchell, Louisville*
Deng Adel, Louisville*
Jaylen Johnson, Louisville*
Dennis Smith, N.C. State
Omer Yurtseven, N.C. State*
John Collins, Wake Forest
Tyler Lydon, Syracuse
Tony Bradley, UNC*
Justin Jackson, UNC
Austin Nichols, Virginia

Still no word on NBA possible Grayson Allen, Duke

Transfers:
Chase Jeter, Duke
Sean Obi, Duke
Ty Hudson, Clemson
Marial Shayok, Virginia
Darius Thompson, Virginia
Jarred Reuter, Virginia
Cameron Johnson, Pitt
Crisshawn Clark, Pittsburgh
Matt Ryan, Notre Dame
Ty Graves, Boston College
Christian Matthews, Georgia Tech
Greg McClinton, Wake Forest
Maverick Rowan, NC State

Note (dismissed during the season)
Michael Gilmore, Miami
Rasah Muhammed, Miami
Corey Manigaut, Pitt

Transfers coming (both eligible next season):
Seth LeDay, Virginia Tech (Jr. – from Northwest Mississippi Community College)
Nigel Johnson, Virginia (Sr. -- from Rutgers)

I added Justin Jackson as gone - YAY ... And Maverick Rowan as transferring. Please update with others I forgot.
State could be really bad next year without Rowan and Dennis Smith etc. looks like Pitt will be bad too. I like having a few poor teams in the acc - I think it wears you down when every game is a mental and physical beating. It's good to get a break every fifth game or so. IMO Notre Dame, w Colson and Farrell, and Louisville - if some return - could possibly lead the league next year

[Olympic Fan]

I added Justin Jackson as gone - YAY ... And Maverick Rowan as transferring. Please update with others I forgot.
State could be really bad next year without Rowan and Dennis Smith etc. looks like Pitt will be bad too. I like having a few poor teams in the acc - I think it wears you down when every game is a mental and physical beating. It's good to get a break every fifth game or so. IMO Notre Dame, w Colson and Farrell, and Louisville - if some return - could possibly lead the league next year

I think it's too early to measure State for next year. Too much in the air. I think they will have other transfers -- Kapita? Kirk? Hicks? Will Abu go pro (not an NBA target, but he could be one of those guys who goes straight to Europe)? Will Henderson even apply for a sixth (hardship) year? Will Yurtseven pull out the draft? Will Keatts add any grad transfers?

Right now, I'm pretty sure they'll have Markell Johnson (a pretty promising point), a solid wing in Torin Dorn and a solid power forward in the Lennard Freeman (who sat out last year). Add some combination of Henderson, Abu, Yurtseven, Kapita and Hicks and they could be half-decent -- at least better than Pitt, Clemson or Boston College.

[PackMan97]

Mav is not transferring, he's going pro. In this US if he can, overseas if he must.

[Newton_14]

Mav is not transferring, he's going pro. In this US if he can, overseas if he must.

Interesting. WRAL reported last night on their 11pm news that he is transferring. I wonder why he decided to leave with such a promising young coach taking the helm, unless maybe he was told he is not a good fit in the system the new coach uses?

[MChambers]

Preseason #2.

So, Zona #1, MSU #2 so far... let's see if Duke can join them in the top 5 once the dust settles on our roster.

(I'm somewhat kidding; we'll do preseason rankings when all the dust settles for every team, but those two look very strong right now.)

I'm betting the tournament selection committee puts UVa and MSU in the same bracket.

[FerryFor50]

Interesting. WRAL reported last night on their 11pm news that he is transferring. I wonder why he decided to leave with such a promising young coach taking the helm, unless maybe he was told he is not a good fit in the system the new coach uses?

Keatts probably came in and said "ok, guys. We need to focus on playing pressure defense."

Mav said "See ya!"

[Newton_14]

Keatts probably came in and said "ok, guys. We need to focus on playing pressure defense."

Mav said "See ya!"

Well, yeah, there's that too. Those State boys this past season were very allergic to playing defense of any type....

[TexHawk]

Preseason #2.

So, Zona #1, MSU #2 so far... let's see if Duke can join them in the top 5 once the dust settles on our roster.

(I'm somewhat kidding; we'll do preseason rankings when all the dust settles for every team, but those two look very strong right now.)


Not to get ahead of ourselves, but MSU should be an absolute load down low with Ward, Jackson, and Bridges. But they'll need Cassius Winston to step up as their PG, and he was never able to consistently take the load from Tum Tum last year. Tum Tum is a good change of pace PG, but you don't want him running a national title contender.

CBS is updating their preseason Top 25 with each early entry/transfer decision (http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/college-basketball-rankings-miles-bridges-return-has-msu-third-in-top-25-and-one/). IMO that's a little optimistic for my team, at least until we see Malik Newman (rust) and Billy Preston (eligibility) on the court in the fall.

[arnie]

Not to get ahead of ourselves, but MSU should be an absolute load down low with Ward, Jackson, and Bridges. But they'll need Cassius Winston to step up as their PG, and he was never able to consistently take the load from Tum Tum last year. Tum Tum is a good change of pace PG, but you don't want him running a national title contender.

CBS is updating their preseason Top 25 with each early entry/transfer decision (http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/college-basketball-rankings-miles-bridges-return-has-msu-third-in-top-25-and-one/). IMO that's a little optimistic for my team, at least until we see Malik Newman (rust) and Billy Preston (eligibility) on the court in the fall.

The optimisim for the Cheats is way over the top.