MBB: South Carolina 88, Duke 81 (R32) Post-Game Thread

[JBDuke]

Put your post-game thoughts here. Per our Guidelines, don't vent and don't bash our players. If you need to do that, go elsewhere.

[ice-9]

The problem is every time we tried to attack the basket SC would swarm the lanes and swipe.

Normally these would be called as fouls -- there's a reason SC is one of the most foul-prone teams in the country.

But today they weren't called fouls and instead became Duke turnovers.

We couldn't penetrate without turning over the ball at a high rate, so we tried 3-pointers. But SC's trapping defense worked and we had to go for long 2s. And that's the end of our offense.

On defense, SC did a great job of setting up the iso post play, and we couldn't defend without fouling. They also did a good job of getting Thornwell in position to make plays, and SC players in general did well attacking and drawing fouls in the second half.

And that's the ball game.

[DukieInKansas]

Not the desired outcome. Thank you, Amile, Matt, and Nick. Wish you had been able to go out on a win.

[kAzE]

I usually avoid blaming bad officiating . . . but wow, that was some biased officiating. We got hosed from start to finish.

[kaufmjo]

No venting. We got vented. Just disappointing in the Duke crowd

[gotoguy]

Great effort by the gamecocks. Bummer

[Dukehky]

Our best player did not play his best tonight. We ran into a team essentially on their home court that played a ridiculous second half. I thought the officiating was bad, but what do I know.

[DangerDevil]

I am happy for this team that they won the ACC Tournament, would have been nice if the season wouldn't have had as much adversity and the team could have gelled and come together and reached their potential. Let's Go Duke!

[CoachJ10]

I have seen some criminally bad reffing, but tonight takes the cake. Tonight was obscene. No ifs ands or buts. And please, if anyone says "you cant blame the refs for losses", you didnt watch one second of this game.

This game made my blood boil, and the NCAA should be embarrassed at the product (refs) they put on the floor.

[pfrduke]

I really don't know how we gave up 65 points in one half to South Carolina. 65 points.

[AFL]

I said two weeks ago that the ACC was overrated, and that Duke could very well lose in the second round. Sometimes I sure hate it when I'm right.

[mph]

The complaints about the committee and the refs are worthy of Inside Carolina. You can't turn the ball over as much as we turned it over and expect to win. You can't give up 60 in the 2nd half and expect to win. Period. Congrats to South Carolina on a well-deserved win. Congrats to Amile and Matt on great careers. It was a privilege to watch you guys for 4 years.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Fsd fsd

[Doria]

We had an up and down year, but I love our guys. Thanks to the seniors and the early declarers for the draft!

Lots of good memories that are unaffected by the way this ended.

[DUKIECB]

Just a wacky, wacky season from beginning to end. Proud of the ACC championship.

Now just hope the cheaters lose and order will be restored.

[Bluedog]

Amile showed up and left everything on the court. Thank you Amile! And Matt! And others. This tournament can be cruel as we know. One bad night and you're done. That's why we love it and its unpredictability.

[Hingeknocker]

Among the more frustrating nights to be a Duke fan in a long time. Love the fight and effort of this team. From the way the game was officiated in the first 5 minutes, I knew we were going to have extreme trouble winning the game. Once it was clear that SC could reach and bump whenever they wanted, the game was going to play out a certain way. Wish we had made a few more shots in the second half and done more to stop their momentum, but at the end of the day, we were outmatched by the officiating, oh and that little nuance of having AN ENTIRE STADIUM against us. As a 2 seed. I would love to know the last time a 1 or 2 seed played in that hostile of an environment for a 2nd round game.

(Did I make it through that without triggering the expletive filter?)

[Chard]

Was there any attempt to get an inside game going? This was the most frustrating thing about this season. No inside game was developed and Duke was one dimensional.

Draft vigil, here we come.

[kaufmjo]

Too much talent on this team to get outplayed like that. There was a lack of intensity all game. Should have put it away in first half

[brlftz]

Those of us who got mocked for fearing this game because we had only seen SC in their first round game had a point, as it turns out. Who cares how poor SC was on offense in January? What we saw on Friday was a freight train coming at us.

[60's Devil]

Most of the USC players come from a 200 mile radius of Columbia. They were not great defensive players when they got there.
They were COACHED to be great defensive players. McDonalds may not be everything.

[timmy c]

Proud of the duke team. Lots of difficult situations to deal with. They fought hard, just didn't have enough to pull it out tonight.

[BigZ]

Unc would if lost today if their game was in Little Rock

[unexpected]

I wish there was a way to tell the committee, "hey look, you don't have to put us in the Greensboro/Gville pod". To that regard, it may have been better to have been a #3 or #4 seed and been in some random location.

[duke4ever19]

I feel like if I threw on shoes, I could run a marathon with all the pent up energy inside.

[Atldukie79]

I thought the refs were the story in the first half.

The second half was the perfect storm:
foul trouble
Home crowd for USC
frustration over how the game was called

But USC played the best half I have seen in a long time, give them credit:
65 points for USC in 2nd half

73 % form the floor in second half

Our freshmen lost their composure...at least 10 turnovers for Frank and Tatum

[freedevil]

The only call that frustrated me to the point where I felt like we were playing with a different set of rules was the one on Amile near the end where we forced a USC turnover... That killed any chance we had of pulling the off the comeback.

[CoachJ10]

Most of the USC players come from a 200 mile radius of Columbia. They were not great defensive players when they got there.
They were COACHED to be great defensive players. McDonalds may not be everything.

They were coached to grab and push and make the refs call fouls. The jokers we had tonight decided to pass on that and to call phantom calls on duke. It was a joke.

[gocanes0506]

Not only that but we didn't play any Offense at all. It was everyone stand around and wait for someone to throw it to you. No movement when two defenders flashed to the ball, no help on traps, and terrible screens. Coupled with refs calling it one way and you have a beating by an Ok team.

We played the same O we played most of the year and it was the O I knew would kill us. Coaching or player execution didn't happen tonight. The O movement needed to beat that team wasn't present.

Bad way for Amile to go out. He deserved more. None of his teammates came with the same intensity he did. He deserved at least another game.

[CoachJ10]

The only call that frustrated me to the point where I felt like we were playing with a different set of rules was the one on Amile near the end where we forced a USC turnover... That killed any chance we had of pulling the off the comeback.

That was the only call that frustrated you? Oy ve.

[duke4ever19]

The East Region is wide open. Who wants it?

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Our best player did not play his best tonight. We ran into a team essentially on their home court that played a ridiculous second half. I thought the officiating was bad, but what do I know.

Do you mean Tatum, Allen, or Kennard? We got straight beat. Props to SC. Weird end to a weird season.

[freedevil]

That was the only call that frustrated you? Oy ve.

He he. To the point that I'll remember it...

[anon]

I was disappointed to see us stick with the zone for so long. I know K has softened his stance over the last few years, but my totally unscientific mental bookkeeping seems to indicate it has not helped us overall. Not to say the zone is not a good defense (it worked well for S.C. today), but I just don't think it fits in well with K-coached teams.

I also, again, lament the one-and-done era.

Looking forward to baseball season and next season.

[A-Tex Devil]

This isn't the '99, '01, '02, '11, or '15 team. I leave '10 off because that was maybe K's best coaching job (inferior team to the others). On those teams, we could do what we do best regardless of what the other teams strength was. This team was flawed in a way that played right in to South Carolina's hands. We should have known it coming in. They are going to deny our threes, create TOs and hit offensive rebounds. But we went right into the lion's den anyway with our game plan. The 5 point lead was fool's gold in the first half. SC wasn't going to keep shooting like that in the second half, and what made it worse, our defense allowed layup after layup and wide open 3 after wide open 3 all game. SC just missed them in the first half.

We needed a different game plan. Or at the very least a half time adjustment. Like I said in the game thread, SC's defense is MEANT to be adjusted for in the second half. They are going to get boat raced by Baylor, or either Wiscy or Florida. Mark my words.

[CDu]

Jefferson played like a guy not ready for his career to end. Unfortunately, some of the younger guys weren't ready for the moment. Sad to see Jefferson's career come to an end. Same for Jones. Two great representatives of the program. Their defense will be hard to replace.

Tough nights for Kennard and Jackson and to a lesser degree Tatum and Allen. They didn't handle USC's aggressive defense well. Tatum and Allen had gawdy point totals but contributed to the turnovers.

A frustrating year. Four wonderful days in early March, followed by a sad end four games too soon.

It will be an interesting offseason. Lots of big decisions for some key players. We could wind up REALLY young next year. I just can't help but feel this was a missed opportunity, and there are only a finite number of these opportunities left for Coach K. Oh well.

[weezie]

I got nothing. Just sad. Such a hard season.

But God bless them all. We love you.

[vrob90]

Well, the season could have been a lot worse. A bad loss to end it, but not particularly surprising. The wheels all fell off in every way tonight and that pretty much sums it up.

[freedevil]

Weird end to a weird season.

100% agreed.

[AFL]

I do congratulate our seniors, Amile and Matt. Thanks for the memories. They both had great careers.

[jipops]

I had us losing next round. Still, would have been nice to make the 16. This has been a tumultuous season for a team with a multitude of flaws. Tonight was a surprise but by no means shocking. Everything had to rely on iso all year and SC ate that up. And our defense was never going to be reliable.

On to the nba playoffs. I'm done with college ball for awhile.

[Dukehky]

Do you mean Tatum, Allen, or Kennard? We got straight beat. Props to SC. Weird end to a weird season.

Kennard.

[Utley]

Hard to process right now.

Love our seniors - incredible moxie by Amile tonight - but not everyone.

Our nightmare scenario is playing a big athletic teams that is allowed to play that way - I though Oregon game was similar. It really is all about matchups.

ACC tourney run was a special memory.

Hoping for a better karma year next year. Thanks for ridIng along with all of you.

[A-Tex Devil]

I have seen some criminally bad reffing, but tonight takes the cake. Tonight was obscene. No ifs ands or buts. And please, if anyone says "you cant blame the refs for losses", you didnt watch one second of this game.

This game made my blood boil, and the NCAA should be embarrassed at the product (refs) they put on the floor.

We got like three gift blocking calls, and Luke got away with a shove. The refs were bad, but it was both ways. And they shot 70% in the second half and we had 14 (I think) TOs in the first half when we had a chance to boat race them. This was a well deserved L.

[BigZ]

Let's go Butler

[Bluedog]

I was disappointed to see us stick with the zone for so long. I know K has softened his stance over the last few years, but my totally unscientific mental bookkeeping seems to indicate it has not helped us overall. Not to say the zone is not a good defense (it worked well for S.C. today), but I just don't think it fits in well with K-coached teams.

I also, again, lament the one-and-done era.

Looking forward to baseball season and next season.

The zone was awesome against Louisville (also a poor outside shooting team). It's also a good technique if you're trying to avoid fouls, which we had to do.

[kaufmjo]

I was disappointed to see us stick with the zone for so long. I know K has softened his stance over the last few years, but my totally unscientific mental bookkeeping seems to indicate it has not helped us overall. Not to say the zone is not a good defense (it worked well for S.C. today), but I just don't think it fits in well with K-coached teams.

I also, again, lament the one-and-done era.

Looking forward to baseball season and next season.

Agreed the coaching seemed off today. The zone wasn't working although to be fair little at all was.

Congrats to SC, their coach is scary and probably should not be crossed in the wrong way.

And I have to say I enjoy hearing the bickering to make myself feel better after a tough loss. Versus years past under old mgmt who would shut down the site. Good job guys and thanks for your support

[Troublemaker]

Postgame presser. SC is up right now. Duke will follow.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DKKEXd_5Tk

[burnspbesq]

That's how Frank Martin-coached teams play. They put unrelenring pressure on the officials for 40 minutes, and if the officials fold, they win. We let them get into our heads, which didn't help. And south Carolina could easily go 1,000 games before they have another half of shooting like that.

Perfect storm.

Women still alive. If you're local please show up tomorrow.

[ChrisP]

This game was lost in the 1st half - just like at Syracuse. We had so many chances to build a bigger lead and just kept turning it over. Near the end of the 1st, I felt like we easily could have been up by 15-20 points with just a bit more composure. We were lucky they shot so poorly in the first, and wow, did THAT turn around in the second, but we let the underdog hang around, let the crowd get into it and that was it :(

I still say the ACC was better than this absolutely dreadful tourney showing and I'm amazingly proud of our guys for winning the ACC Championship. Congrats to USC, they played harder and smarter and deserved the W tonight.

[wsb3]

Thanks to Amile & Matt for all the effort...dedication...the choosing to be part of something bigger than yourself.

It was a good but not quite as good a year as we hoped for. Still... a 20th ACC CHAMPIONSHIP & beat the CHEATS 2
of 3.

[YmoBeThere]

I said two weeks ago that the ACC was overrated, and that Duke could very well lose in the second round. Sometimes I sure hate it when I'm right.

You should quote your original post stating this. And could very well is not the same as will...

[ipatent]

Put your post-game thoughts here. Per our Guidelines, don't vent and don't bash our players. If you need to do that, go elsewhere.

I think that's pretty much how many of us expected Duke's exit this year. Not necessarily in the second round, but a good defensive team exploiting the lack of an inside presence and a playmaking guard. Can't say South Carolina didn't earn the win. Hats off to them.

[Hingeknocker]

It's simply not true that the refs were bad both ways. The refs allowed SC to play a very specific kind of basketball, which tilted basically every component of the game in their favor. It's unconscionable that a refereeing crew could allow a team to come in specifically with a strategy to foul as often as SC did in the first half, and not call anywhere close to the correct number of them. Egregious.

[wavedukefan70s]

Gave up to many points in the 2nd half.couldnt adjust to the rugby style of play.refs didnt cost us the game.but the refs style of officiating dudnt help us either.
We will miss amile and matt .heres to a unc loss next round.heres to next year.

[Channing]

We were a step (sometimes two) slower than they were tonight. Our defense has been questionable at best all season, and it was nonexistent in the second half. I thought coach K was going to lose his mind at some point out there.

Thanks Matt and Amile. October can't get here soon enough.

[60's Devil]

Most of the USC players come from a 200 mile radius of Columbia. They were not great defensive players when they enrolled. They were COACHED that way.
Maybe there is more to basketball than flipping threes and McDonalds. Thanks to Amile and Matt.

[Wander]

To me, the main thing that held us back this season was Giles and Bolden being completely unable to contribute.

Our preseason ranking was predicated on us having an amazing freshman class. How much of that was due to injury is debatable (I think it was mostly injury for Giles and mostly not for Bolden).

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Never seen a team shoot 20% one half and 70% the next half. Have to give props.

[dyedwab]

A deeply unenjoyable end, to a season with many unenjoyable moments.'

The ACC championship was a glimpse of greatness that was attainable.

But this year's team just committee too many unforced errors repeatedly.

I'm. so. frustrated.

[uh_no]

1: Play as a team. move the ball around. If we start forcing things and not moving the ball as we all know we can, we'll be playing into SC's hands, which it seems at least michigan and perhaps florida did.(i mean, given, that's ALWAYS true)
2: limit shot differential. We are about equal sized with them, except when we go big, so there's a chance we can limit their O boards, but I'm not banking on that. Instead we have to work on keeping it respectable, and more importantly, not have any big turnover spurts. As has been pointed out, TO's has not been an issue recently, the FSU game being the last time we were really higher than you'd want, and even then only at 14 (given, >0 is more than you'd really want)
3: Take the ball at chris silva when he's in the game. This guy is a foul machine. He gets slightly less than half the minutes at the 5, and has 23 games this year with 4 or 5 fouls. That's nuts. Abuse him.
4: matt shuts down thornwell. there isn't enough firepower on the rest of the team.

1: They pushed the lead when we failed to run much offence and mostly just shot threes.
2: 63-53 USC. 18 TOs
3: we got them in foul trouble early....then failed to capitalize on it for the rest of the game....see point 1
4: 24 points.

0/4. There's your ball game. We took the things that other teams failed to do well when they lost to SC....and did all of them. If it weren't for their poor shooting in the first half, this would have been uglier.

Oh well. Seems the ACC wasn't all it was cracked up to be.

[jipops]

(quoted content deleted)

Yea, 28 wins and an ACC title is such a bummer.

I'd rather grab that NIT title.

[Ballboy1998]

Redacted: original post deleted

LOL. Whatever, man. Frustrating loss but get off the ledge. If you actually think this, it's just further evidence of how spoiled we are.

Thank you seniors, sorry you had to go out on a loss, but you still go out champions.

[CDu]

To me, the main thing that held us back this season was Giles and Bolden being completely unable to contribute.

Our preseason ranking was predicated on us having an amazing freshman class. How much of that was due to injury is debatable (I think it was mostly injury for Giles and mostly not for Bolden).

That combined with Tatum not being effective at the 3, which handcuffed us a bit (we were never going to play three centers). But, yeah, Giles not being able to be himself was pretty devastating.

[BoiseDevil]

No freedom of movement from the tip

Didn't appear we ever adjusted effectively

Couldn't solve their defensive riddle in 2nd half, and their shots started falling

Season with a few highs, a few firsts and a few head scratchers.

Can't wait for next year!

Go Duke!!!

[jipops]

In search of silver lining...there will be no apocalypse. The cheats will probably win the whole thing but at least it won't be against us.

[DangerDevil]

LOL. Whatever, man. Frustrating loss but get off the ledge. If you actually think this, it's just further evidence of how spoiled we are.

Thank you seniors, sorry you had to go out on a loss, but you still go out champions.

Guess he forgot about the 94-95 season.

[TNTDevil]

It's simply not true that the refs were bad both ways. The refs allowed SC to play a very specific kind of basketball, which tilted basically every component of the game in their favor. It's unconscionable that a refereeing crew could allow a team to come in specifically with a strategy to foul as often as SC did in the first half, and not call anywhere close to the correct number of them. Egregious.If "freedom of movement" (meaning: keep your hands off) was an emphasis this year, it wasn't in this game.

We went into the Bonus at about the twelve-minute mark, they committed one more foul about 45 seconds later, and then, not another foul until about the two-minute mark.

Yeah, maybe the officiating didn't cost us this game put it sure made winning more of an uphill battle.

[Potato]

I was worried from the start, but man Duke ran into an absolute buzz saw tonight. Even with a 7 point lead at halftime I had an awful feeling, because I knew there was no way South Carolina would be that cold again in the second half and we never showed we were capable of breaking their defense down. Kennard honestly looked sick tonight, he was a non factor. Besides Grayson no one consistently played well on offense, and when they started making shots we just couldn't stop them without fouling. I'll have to admit that K got outcoached tonight, there is no way you can deny that. I was thinking he would be able to adjust to their defense in the second half but he didn't. Frank martin coached an outstanding game that Duke wasn't ready for. Their length gave Duke so many fits on both offense and defense. Looking back on it, this will definitely be considered a really disappointing season. Glimpses of greatness but too many holes to become a powerhouse. Such a stacked roster that remained weak defensively and never could properly gel.

Here's to hoping Luke and Frank stay and we grab the commitments of Knox and Duval

[gocanes0506]

Yea, 28 wins and an ACC title is such a bummer.

I'd rather grab that NIT title.

ACC Title doesn't mean as much as it did 10 years ago. The conference bastardized the tradition for football money and the addition of 4 more play-in teams almost makes a conference championship mean little for big conferences. I may be the minority on this feeling but the ACC tournament hasn't had the same feeling since we went to 12 teams then 16.

Winning the tourney was fun to watch but bowing out in game 2 takes away from it.

[Billy Dat]

I honestly didn't think any team could shut down our offense like that. South Carolina got the style they wanted and our defense couldn't keep up.

I really thought we had turned a big corner after the first Wake game and Brooklyn was the final step. I knew today wasn't going to be easy, but I thought we'd win and cover. When we pushed out to 10 early in the second, I thought we'd keep rolling. Instead, that was our last stand.

I hate the last loss of the season, I hate saying goodbye to the players who have finished their careers, I hate that we couldn't figure out how to beat that weird zone.

I love Duke basketball. It was an unprecendentedly disjointed and chaotic season, thanks players and coaches for once again giving me something woth obsessing over.

[A-Tex Devil]

It's simply not true that the refs were bad both ways. The refs allowed SC to play a very specific kind of basketball, which tilted basically every component of the game in their favor. It's unconscionable that a refereeing crew could allow a team to come in specifically with a strategy to foul as often as SC did in the first half, and not call anywhere close to the correct number of them. Egregious.

This is tired. The Gamecocks shot 70% in the second half when they were down five in the first. Period, end of argument. They shot 42% of the game which tells me we lost this game in the first half when we should have been up by 15-20. K was not smiling in the halftime interview, Frank Martin was on the way back.

Anyway, I watched WVU all year, which plays the same way. There will be a lot of fouls in games involving Martin/Huggins teams. We went into this game as if we had no idea South Carolina played the way we did. I get that they bump the ball handler every time down the court. I do. But this team lost a lot of games this year. They will get killed by someone in this region -- I'd love to see Wiscy play them. But again -- make a fricking adjustment to your offense in the second half.

[Devilwin]

ACC Tournament Champions...Nobody can take that away from a team that faced all kinds of adversity. Thanks to the seniors for all the great times, the National title, and all you meant to us, the fans. God bless, guys.:)

[TNTDevil]

Yea, 28 wins and an ACC title is such a bummer.

I'd rather grab that NIT title.You forgot about beating Carolina. Twice.

[uh_no]

We went into the Bonus at about the twelve-minute mark, they committed one more foul about 45 seconds later, and then, not another foul until about the two-minute mark.


We also stopped running any offense inside the three point line at that point. You can't blame the refs for our lack of prerogative to take it inside....

[kAzE]

We got like three gift blocking calls, and Luke got away with a shove. The refs were bad, but it was both ways. And they shot 70% in the second half and we had 14 (I think) TOs in the first half when we had a chance to boat race them. This was a well deserved L.

It's hard to play tough D when you have 3 or 4 fouls on BS calls. And some of the first half turnovers were fouls on them that weren't called . . .

[dairedevil]

i would like to apologize for the loss tonight. It is all my son's fault. He keeps making plans for things in March, during the tournament...got married in 2006, trip to England in 2007, we head to New Zealand for two weeks soon. Duke conveniently loses so we don't miss out while otherwise occupied. i will do my best to break him of this scheduling issue, but his wife isn't a sports fan, and she's got more pull than his mom does these days.

All kidding aside, this has been a weird season. Such high expectations before it even began, then the injuries and surgeries, and Grayson controversy that almost totally derailed the season. Two out of three over unc, the ACC four in four got the hopes up high again...only to end with this ugly game.

Best of luck to the seniors, their leadership and determination carried the team through lots of ups and downs. They will be missed. And to Grayson, too, assuming he is gone.

To the freshman one and dones....thanks, it would be really nice to watch you grow and develop. Watching the 91-92 special made me really miss out on seeing our guys grow up, together


.

[Hingeknocker]

This is tired. The Gamecocks shot 70% in the second half when they were down five in the first. Period, end of argument. They shot 42% of the game which tells me we lost this game in the first half when we should have been up by 15-20. K was not smiling in the halftime interview, Frank Martin was on the way back.

Anyway, I watched WVU all year, which plays the same way. There will be a lot of fouls in games involving Martin/Huggins teams. We went into this game as if we had no idea South Carolina played the way we did. I get that they bump the ball handler every time down the court. I do. But this team lost a lot of games this year. They will get killed by someone in this region -- I'd love to see Wiscy play them. But again -- make a fricking adjustment to your offense in the second half.

It's hard to make adjustments to your offense in the second half when you're exhausted from being beat up the entire game. It's hard to establish an inside presence when their guards are allowed to foul every time you bring the ball up in the halfcourt or try to establish ball movement on the perimeter. The reason why this is so frustrating and why referees seriously need to evaluate themselves, is exactly as you say, everyone knows Martin/Huggins teams are going to play like this. The only question is if the refs are going to allow it, or not. Martin/Huggins are banking on the hope that if they foul every time down the court, the refs won't call them all, and it will frustrate the other team. This is an absurd way to play any sport, and the refs need to stop letting this be a valid strategy.

[BigZ]

So Carolina can only beat Duke at home...

[CoachJ10]

This is tired. The Gamecocks shot 70% in the second half when they were down five in the first. Period, end of argument. They shot 42% of the game which tells me we lost this game in the first half when we should have been up by 15-20. K was not smiling in the halftime interview, Frank Martin was on the way back.

Anyway, I watched WVU all year, which plays the same way. There will be a lot of fouls in games involving Martin/Huggins teams. We went into this game as if we had no idea South Carolina played the way we did. I get that they bump the ball handler every time down the court. I do. But this team lost a lot of games this year. They will get killed by someone in this region -- I'd love to see Wiscy play them. But again -- make a fricking adjustment to your offense in the second half.

With all due respect, it is not "tired" to point out the glaring variable in tonights's game. Not only was it the lack of calls on USC, but it was the pathetic phantom calls on Duke. When people excuse or deny how much refs influence games, I just have to shake my head.

[DUKIE V(A)]

Always disappointing to lose the last game. Matt and Amile will be missed. Winning titles ain't easy. Proud to be ACC Champs. Should be an interesting off season. I see Grayson and Luke returning but we shall see. The addition of Duval and/or Knox would be huge.

[KandG]

End to a strange year. A lot of people are comparing South Carolina's performance to Arizona 2011, but it really felt like LSU in 2006, where a team just suffocated the life out of us and two of our biggest scorers just couldn't quite match the intensity.

Reality is that this Duke team danced on the edge of disaster for good portions of the season and also danced on the edge of glory for some big parts of the season as well. The great parts of the season were special and the terrible moments pretty terrible. In the end, it just ended up being too much walking on the edge of a cliff. When a team came poised to take advantage of our weaknesses on the right night where a lot of things went their way, we ended up falling off.

Want to thank Amile for being such a warrior and being the player who most didn't want to lose. As bitter as nights like this are, seeing someone like Amile give his all is what makes rooting for this program worth everything.

There are going to be a lot of broad proclamations and intemperate comments made about bad seeds, bad refs, K, lack of point guard play, one and dones, specific players and all that, but I choose to see things more simply. We were a very perimeter oriented team that never defended well all season at the point of attack, and we relied heavily on a couple of young guys that looked a little too young in a big game at both ends. A soft zone and some pressing could only paper over our defensive cracks for so long, no matter how good our offense.

On a specific tactical level, PG or no PG, not having someone that could attack pressure without turning the ball over ended up biting us in the end. Grayson's ball handling deficiencies became a real issue vs SC, and Frank was a turnover machine for most of the game. Jayson was reduced to starting his offensive possessions way outside his comfort zone and dribbling into triple teams and turning the ball over as well. Luke looked like the most worn out player the whole weekend...maybe the four games in four days ACC tournament stretch affected him the most, because he did not attack strongly in either game.

Thank you Amile, Matt, Jayson, Harry, Nick, (probably) Grayson and (maybe) Luke. Everyone will kick dirt on us on this tough night, but I'll look forward to K restarting with a new group next season, stronger than ever. I know people will look at this season as a blown chance, but even the greatest of greats suffer bad luck at the oddest moments. Doesn't take away the great moments and the unexpected successes.

I feel really lucky to have rooted for K and Duke for 30+ years, and his legacy is more than fine with me, despite 1986, 1999, 2004, 2017 and whatever other years of pain resonate with people out there.

[CDu]

We were really weak with the ball tonight. Jackson, Tatum, and Allen had 13 turnovers. That is backbreaking. And to compound that, Kennard was completely shut down.

The whole team other than Jefferson got rattled tonight. Younger guys maybe got overwhelmed by the moment and just couldn't match USC's intensity.

Just have to hope UNC falls short again.

[Ian]

At what point do we revisit the put all our eggs in the OAD recruting strategy? Even counting 2015, we are not winning at any signficantly higher rate than we did before this strategy. We don't have any more ups than we did before and frankly the downs are worse.

Plus what was for me the most rewarding part of following college basketball, that of watching young players comes in and mature and leave as young men, watching them mentor the younger players and pass the torch, have been for the most part removed from the experience. We are now lucky if we have more than one or two seniors on the team in any given year.

We used to play the kind of defense SC played tonight, when we had a team of upperclassmen who's been through the fire with each other for multiple years.

[jipops]

ACC Title doesn't mean as much as it did 10 years ago. The conference bastardized the tradition for football money and the addition of 4 more play-in teams almost makes a conference championship mean little for big conferences. I may be the minority on this feeling but the ACC tournament hasn't had the same feeling since we went to 12 teams then 16.

Winning the tourney was fun to watch but bowing out in game 2 takes away from it.

Geez Loueez, a title won is a championship won. Another banner in Cameron, and not some fake Helms either. Why rationalize/de-rationalize an accomplishment? If you were around back then, go back and taste the early 80's. Now, THAT stunk. And we've been hanging banners ever since, including this year. And it didn't take fake classes to get us here.

[A-Tex Devil]

It's hard to make adjustments to your offense in the second half when you're exhausted from being beat up the entire game. It's hard to establish an inside presence when their guards are allowed to foul every time you bring the ball up in the halfcourt or try to establish ball movement on the perimeter. The reason why this is so frustrating and why referees seriously need to evaluate themselves, is exactly as you say, everyone knows Martin/Huggins teams are going to play like this. The only question is if the refs are going to allow it, or not. Martin/Huggins are banking on the hope that if they foul every time down the court, the refs won't call them all, and it will frustrate the other team. This is an absurd way to play any sport, and the refs need to stop letting this be a valid strategy.

I have seen one Duke game ever where I felt close to jobbed by the refs - Duke/UCONN, 2004 Final Four. And even then, Okafor (UCONN not Duke - because I don't know your age) had a couple questionable fouls on him which kept him on the bench, so it's hard for me to go too far that way even in that game. This was not a ref screw job. This was either a poor game plan altogether, or a belief that our strength would trump their strength with no adjustment when it was clear that wouldn't happen.

[bleedingblue88]

We could never quite put it together this year. Coach K had no answers tonight, truly a dreadful defensive performance. I think this will be largely remembered as one of the more disappointing seasons given our huge amount of talent.

[azzefkram]

A disappointing end to a really strange season. After the ACCT I really thought the team finally found itself. They didn't look it tonight. I have to give SC credit for that. The refs were dreadful but you can't give up 60+ points in the second half and expect anything good to happen. A great game by Amile. I will definitely miss watching him next year. Matt had a good game as well. Harry had some good moments. Luke was MIA most of the night. Jayson, Grayson and Frank were a bit too sloppy with the ball.

A bad end to a good season. I can't shake the feeling that we missed a great season however. One less injury, one less distraction and maybe we hang two banners Thank you seniors for representing Duke so well. Jayson and Harry, I wish you could stick around. I'll miss Grayson.

[scottdude8]

This remains (literally) a banner season. The ACC Tounament can never be taken away from this team. But this was one of the worst possible ways to end a season, in a game against a team I think we beat 9 out of 10 times yet everything seems to go against us.

Hate this feeling. Love my team.

[DieHard]

I just want to say thank you to the players for their hard work. Thank you for the memories, and thank you for the ACC Championship. Great year under the circumstances. Will be interesting to see who returns.

[DukieInKansas]

Press conference starting now

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

What a coincidence - out best players all laid an egg. Or, maybe, SC played insane defense, played us perfectly, and froze us on offense.

Props to USC. They had a great game plan and worked us in the second half.

[ipatent]

I have seen one Duke game ever where I felt close to jobbed by the refs - Duke/UCONN, 2004 Final Four. And even then, Okafor (UCONN not Duke - because I don't know your age) had a couple questionable fouls on him which kept him on the bench, so it's hard for me to go too far that way even in that game. This was not a ref screw job. This was either a poor game plan altogether, or a belief that our strength would trump their strength with no adjustment when it was clear that wouldn't happen.

Duke had no lead guard or assist man at all this year. Kennard and Allen are 2/3s. Jackson is a 1/2 combo guard, but not a playmaker, at least not yet.

Have to wonder how things might have been different if Derryck Thornton didn't transfer.

[uh_no]

What a coincidence - out best players all laid an egg. Or, maybe, SC played insane defense, played us perfectly, and froze us on offense.

Props to USC. They had a great game plan and worked us in the second half.

our offense was perfectly in line with what you'd expect from one of the best defenses in the country. Giving up 55 points in a half to a relatively bad offense was not. That was a sad defensive performance.

[gofurman]

Those of us who got mocked for fearing this game because we had only seen SC in their first round game had a point, as it turns out. Who cares how poor SC was on offense in January? What we saw on Friday was a freight train coming at us.

THIS> I posted as such about three times in the pre-game thread. No one seemed to listen... Please use this from now on as proof - NOT that I know anything. Rather as proof as to why I fear two things - EVERY OPPONENT.. and the refs in the NCAA tourney. We live on shooting and Free throws and refs in the tourney are notorious for calling less fouls than the ACC refs or any regular season refs.

They killed JJ one year in the NCAA (mugged him) and the refs wouldn't call it so we lost.

Still, congrats on a great D plan to USC - we couldnt' drive and kick and they used what the refs were giving, playing very physical w us

* Everyone remember this game next year in the NCAA tourney. Refs swallow the whistle in the NCAA tourney .. that's been shown before

[Dukehky]

At what point do we revisit the put all our eggs in the OAD recruting strategy? Even counting 2015, we are not winning at any signficantly higher rate than we did before this strategy. We don't have any more ups than we did before and frankly the downs are worse.

Plus what was for me the most rewarding part of following college basketball, that of watching young players comes in and mature and leave as young men, watching them mentor the younger players and pass the torch, have been for the most part removed from the experience. We are now lucky if we have more than one or two seniors on the team in any given year.

We used to play the kind of defense SC played tonight, when we had a team of upperclassmen who's been through the fire with each other for multiple years.

We have used more than 1 one and done system twice. Once ended in a national title and one ended in a second round loss with 2 major injuries and one guy who missed 8 games and got into the flow mid-way through the season.

I too like to see kids develop over the course of years, but if they're good enough, they're going to leave (see Luke Kennard) regardless of how old they are. This is an easy thing to point to, but I don't believe it makes a difference. We're always going to have good seniors, but filling things out with talent is not a bad thing.

I know you didn't do it, but pointing to the success of UNC is an anomaly because their 3 McDs All Americans stayed for 3 or more years. That doesn't happen other places.

I'm glad we get the most talented kids, especially if they love Duke and work hard. Nothing to criticize there IMO. We haven't sold our sole. The goal for most kids is to get to the league. Again, Grayson and Kennard are perfect examples of this. It happens everywhere, we just have more talented kids who leave.

[A-Tex Devil]

A disappointing end to a really strange season. After the ACCT I really thought the team finally found itself. They didn't look it tonight. I have to give SC credit for that. The refs were dreadful but you can't give up 60+ points in the second half and expect anything good to happen. A great game by Amile. I will definitely miss watching him next year. Matt had a good game as well. Harry had some good moments. Luke was MIA most of the night. Jayson, Grayson and Frank were a bit too sloppy with the ball.

A bad end to a good season. I can't shake the feeling that we missed a great season however. One less injury, one less distraction and maybe we hang two banners Thank you seniors for representing Duke so well. Jayson and Harry, I wish you could stick around. I'll miss Grayson.

It's funny -- I imagine Harry Giles has an interesting decision to make. He is probably 15-20 in the draft, but could slide into the second round if things break wrong. Alternatively, he could return, get healthy, figure out K's defense with a whole year under his belt, and dominate next year.

This is all wishful thinking because given his knees, I imagine he will gamble he'll at least get a first round contract. But it's been one of the more interesting decisions I can remember in college basketball.

[A-Tex Devil]

Duke had no lead guard or assist man at all this year. Kennard and Allen are 2/3s. Jackson is a 1/2 combo guard, but not a playmaker, at least not yet.

Have to wonder how things might have been different if Derryck Thornton didn't transfer.

Great, um, point (guard). Sporks.

[freshmanjs]

We haven't sold our sole.

That's good...at least we can cook up a good dinner. Got butter?

[Hingeknocker]

I have seen one Duke game ever where I felt close to jobbed by the refs - Duke/UCONN, 2004 Final Four. And even then, Okafor (UCONN not Duke - because I don't know your age) had a couple questionable fouls on him which kept him on the bench, so it's hard for me to go too far that way even in that game. This was not a ref screw job. This was either a poor game plan altogether, or a belief that our strength would trump their strength with no adjustment when it was clear that wouldn't happen.

2004 was my freshman year at Duke. I remember that game well. I would argue that tonight's screwjob is even worse than what happened in 2004, precisely because of what I said before: SC's strategy is obvious and everyone, the refs included, knows it. For them to reward that kind of strategy is what I find so absurd about it. 2004 had a lot bad calls, but I'm willing to give a ref less slack on an isolated decision than one that establishes that a certain, against-the-rules-because-it's-actually-not-allowed-to-foul-players-but-we're-going-to-allow-it-anyway strategy is going to succeed.

But yeah, 2004 sucked a bunch, too. It's the first time in my life I decided that the only solution to my current predicament was a lot of beer. Oh to be 18 again.

[Dukehky]

our offense was perfectly in line with what you'd expect from one of the best defenses in the country. Giving up 55 points in a half to a relatively bad offense was not. That was a sad defensive performance.

I really think this was a product of the foul trouble more than anything else. They think they have to stay in the game so they can outscore the other team, which is true, it just didn't happen tonight.

The bad thing was that our guards got called for fouls going for rebounds, and their guards were not called for fouls regarding the freedom of movement. Kennard got grabbed and thrown around the first few minutes and knew it was going to be a long day, never recovered.

I thought we went away from Jayson in the second half. Should have put him in the high post more often instead of relying on Matt Frank and G to drive.

I also understand not driving to the rim for our guards who had 2-3 fouls. Who the hell knows what's going to get called, and regardless of the situation, refs loves making a show of calling fouls to crowds. Love it. I would not have been shocked to see a charge on Grayson or Frank if they went to the rim for a finish (they got Frank for a ridiculous one in the first half).

[Ian]

We have used more than 1 one and done system twice. Once ended in a national title and one ended in a second round loss with 2 major injuries and one guy who missed 8 games and got into the flow mid-way through the season.

I too like to see kids develop over the course of years, but if they're good enough, they're going to leave (see Luke Kennard) regardless of how old they are. This is an easy thing to point to, but I don't believe it makes a difference. We're always going to have good seniors, but filling things out with talent is not a bad thing.

I know you didn't do it, but pointing to the success of UNC is an anomaly because their 3 McDs All Americans stayed for 3 or more years. That doesn't happen other places.

I'm glad we get the most talented kids, especially if they love Duke and work hard. Nothing to criticize there IMO. We haven't sold our sole. The goal for most kids is to get to the league. Again, Grayson and Kennard are perfect examples of this. It happens everywhere, we just have more talented kids who leave.

That's just the thing, we may have more "talented" players, but we don't usually have the better teams. The total tend to end up being less than the sum of the parts, because in the end basketball is not 5 individual players doing their own thing.

[Duke79UNLV77]

I've had a bit of a man crush on Luke this year, but 4-18 for the weekend was the biggest problem for us. It was, unfortunately, reminiscent of JJ's shooting performances in his last games all 4 years. I just didn't see him as active without the call, either. I have to wonder if he was sick.

Count me as one who thinks it's ridiculous that we had to play a true road game as a 2 seed in the second round. I thought that played into SC's confidence, our lost composure, and, yes, the officiating. Still not as bad of officiating as the 02 Indiana game, but bad.

Amile had a man's game and played his heart out. Jones was Jones. Giles was Giles (but never the real Giles in a Duke uniform). Pretty much everyone else seemed off tonight.

[CDu]

Duke had no lead guard or assist man at all this year. Kennard and Allen are 2/3s. Jackson is a 1/2 combo guard, but not a playmaker, at least not yet.

Have to wonder how things might have been different if Derryck Thornton didn't transfer.

Thornton never really showed PG skills last year. But yes, having a good PG (whoever it is) helps. Not sure if it would have changed the outcome, but it couldn't hurt.

[dyedwab]

Duke had no lead guard or assist man at all this year. Kennard and Allen are 2/3s. Jackson is a 1/2 combo guard, but not a playmaker, at least not yet.

Have to wonder how things might have been different if Derryck Thornton didn't transfer.

Not to derail the thread, but "if Derryck Thornton didn't transfer," we needed to find 30min of playing time from among Luke, Grayson, and Frank. To me, the idea that Thornton would have made a huge difference 1) overrates how good he was last year and 2) underrates how good our guards were, at least offensively.

(Side argument - had we not had the injury issue we did, I believe Coach K was building an offense built around ball movement and multiple ball-handlers w/o true point guard - and we could see glimpses of it working the way it was supposed to. Injuries derailed that.

[duke09hms]

Not to derail the thread, but "if Derryck Thornton didn't transfer," we needed to find 30min of playing time from among Luke, Grayson, and Frank. To me, the idea that Thornton would have made a huge difference 1) overrates how good he was last year and 2) underrates how good our guards were, at least offensively.

(Side argument - had we not had the injury issue we did, I believe Coach K was building an offense built around ball movement and multiple ball-handlers w/o true point guard - and we could see glimpses of it working the way it was supposed to. Injuries derailed that.

Consider he was an early entry with no preseason last year and was already our best on-ball defender.
Then add-in the huge jump with one year under his belt and his first full pre-season.

I'd rather take sophomore Thornton over freshman Frank ... perhaps less minutes for everyone overall. Frank gets bench minutes.

[jipops]

End to a strange year. A lot of people are comparing South Carolina's performance to Arizona 2011, but it really felt like LSU in 2006, where a team just suffocated the life out of us and two of our biggest scorers just couldn't quite match the intensity.

Reality is that this Duke team danced on the edge of disaster for good portions of the season and also danced on the edge of glory for some big parts of the season as well. The great parts of the season were special and the terrible moments pretty terrible. In the end, it just ended up being too much walking on the edge of a cliff. When a team came poised to take advantage of our weaknesses on the right night where a lot of things went their way, we ended up falling off.

Want to thank Amile for being such a warrior and being the player who most didn't want to lose. As bitter as nights like this are, seeing someone like Amile give his all is what makes rooting for this program worth everything.

There are going to be a lot of broad proclamations and intemperate comments made about bad seeds, bad refs, K, lack of point guard play, one and dones, specific players and all that, but I choose to see things more simply. We were a very perimeter oriented team that never defended well all season at the point of attack, and we relied heavily on a couple of young guys that looked a little too young in a big game at both ends. A soft zone and some pressing could only paper over our defensive cracks for so long, no matter how good our offense.

On a specific tactical level, PG or no PG, not having someone that could attack pressure without turning the ball over ended up biting us in the end. Grayson's ball handling deficiencies became a real issue vs SC, and Frank was a turnover machine for most of the game. Jayson was reduced to starting his offensive possessions way outside his comfort zone and dribbling into triple teams and turning the ball over as well. Luke looked like the most worn out player the whole weekend...maybe the four games in four days ACC tournament stretch affected him the most, because he did not attack strongly in either game.

Thank you Amile, Matt, Jayson, Harry, Nick, (probably) Grayson and (maybe) Luke. Everyone will kick dirt on us on this tough night, but I'll look forward to K restarting with a new group next season, stronger than ever. I know people will look at this season as a blown chance, but even the greatest of greats suffer bad luck at the oddest moments. Doesn't take away the great moments and the unexpected successes.

I feel really lucky to have rooted for K and Duke for 30+ years, and his legacy is more than fine with me, despite 1986, 1999, 2004, 2017 and whatever other years of pain resonate with people out there.

I think this is a quality post but I really have to call out one part as being an untrue narrative. Lack of PG did not bite us in the end tonight. Did it make things difficult? Yes. But simply having a pg was not going to stop USC from scoring 500 points against us in the 2nd half. Now, THAT is what bit us. We had key guys with 3 fouls early in the 2nd. That spelled our doom as we're just not a good enough defensive team to really defend anyone while having foul issues. SC was ranked 134 (I think) before tonight in offensive efficiency. If we couldn't stop them at all despite foul issues there was no hope of going any further than tonight anyways.

I would certainly rather see Duke with a more traditional pg. I think that we could pinpoint that as a weakness early on in the season. Though our offense generally produced this season, having to rely constantly on iso plays opened us up to the struggles we saw tonight early on. But there was just no fixing the defense. Harry was way too late on getting enough of a grasp. And having Amile be the sole patroller of the lane all season ended up being just too much to ask.

[DevilFalcon]

Once it was clear that SC could reach and bump whenever they wanted, the game was going to play out a certain way.

That says it all. And right after unc won from the refs making bad calls, or not calling things one way.

This was by far the most 'physical' game we played all year. They were allowed to mug us and there's not much we could do about it. I'm highly disappointed.

Someone with some power should get onto the ncaa for the lack of consistency in officiating. One game you tap someone and it's a foul, this game you can hockey check players no problem.

Amile you we the man playing through multiple eye attacks. Well done by Matt as well.

[TNTDevil]

End to a strange year. A lot of people are comparing South Carolina's performance to Arizona 2011, but it really felt like LSU in 2006, where a team just suffocated the life out of us and two of our biggest scorers just couldn't quite match the intensity.

Reality is that this Duke team danced on the edge of disaster for good portions of the season and also danced on the edge of glory for some big parts of the season as well. The great parts of the season were special and the terrible moments pretty terrible. In the end, it just ended up being too much walking on the edge of a cliff. When a team came poised to take advantage of our weaknesses on the right night where a lot of things went their way, we ended up falling off.

Want to thank Amile for being such a warrior and being the player who most didn't want to lose. As bitter as nights like this are, seeing someone like Amile give his all is what makes rooting for this program worth everything.

There are going to be a lot of broad proclamations and intemperate comments made about bad seeds, bad refs, K, lack of point guard play, one and dones, specific players and all that, but I choose to see things more simply. We were a very perimeter oriented team that never defended well all season at the point of attack, and we relied heavily on a couple of young guys that looked a little too young in a big game at both ends. A soft zone and some pressing could only paper over our defensive cracks for so long, no matter how good our offense.

On a specific tactical level, PG or no PG, not having someone that could attack pressure without turning the ball over ended up biting us in the end. Grayson's ball handling deficiencies became a real issue vs SC, and Frank was a turnover machine for most of the game. Jayson was reduced to starting his offensive possessions way outside his comfort zone and dribbling into triple teams and turning the ball over as well. Luke looked like the most worn out player the whole weekend...maybe the four games in four days ACC tournament stretch affected him the most, because he did not attack strongly in either game.

Thank you Amile, Matt, Jayson, Harry, Nick, (probably) Grayson and (maybe) Luke. Everyone will kick dirt on us on this tough night, but I'll look forward to K restarting with a new group next season, stronger than ever. I know people will look at this season as a blown chance, but even the greatest of greats suffer bad luck at the oddest moments. Doesn't take away the great moments and the unexpected successes.

I feel really lucky to have rooted for K and Duke for 30+ years, and his legacy is more than fine with me, despite 1986, 1999, 2004, 2017 and whatever other years of pain resonate with people out there. +1. This wasn't a "special team". It was a really good team that could put together special games.

I'd also like to call bull-hockey on those diminishing the value of an ACC Tournament Championship.

[Rich]

Press conference starting now

Coach K said the game was "physical" four times in his post game press conference. Not sure if this was a euphemism for the clutching and grabbing style played by SC because he was otherwise congratulatory, but I would think so. Must be frustrating to play in a conference all year with certain expectations as to what's going to be called a foul and then play a tourney game called so completely different.

[KandG]

Thornton never really showed PG skills last year. But yes, having a good PG (whoever it is) helps. Not sure if it would have changed the outcome, but it couldn't hurt.

My only "what if" with Thornton and lamenting his transfer is that he really seemed to go after it on defense against opposing PGs, even though he was a bit over-aggressive and gambling as a freshman. We could have used someone like that to ease the pressure on Matt and Amile, especially given how destructive a defender Luke ended up being this season. I don't think it was a coincidence that Capel chose to start him over Luke when he coached a game last season.

It would have been interesting to see how Thornton developed as a sophomore, but there are certainly enough memories with this odd season for me not to spend too much time thinking about how Derryck Thornton might have changed things.

[eddiehaskell]

I don't see how anyone could argue a 2nd year Thornton doesn't help this team.

Thornton, Tatum, Amile, Luke, Matt

Grayson, Frank, Giles off the bench.

[Dukehky]

Consider he was an early entry with no preseason last year and was already our best on-ball defender.
Then add-in the huge jump with one year under his belt and his first full pre-season.

I'd rather take sophomore Thornton over freshman Frank ... perhaps less minutes for everyone overall. Frank gets bench minutes.

WHAT!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?

[uh_no]

I really think this was a product of the foul trouble more than anything else. They think they have to stay in the game so they can outscore the other team, which is true, it just didn't happen tonight.

I have a hard time blaming all of 55 points in a half on trying to not foul as much. If it was, then much of that sits on K's shoulders. Put in Vrank to eat time and foul em up. put in anyone to eat fouls. If you know the refs are going to call fouls, then why are we just jacking threes on the other end as they build a lead?

I don't know if it was just game plan or execution, but we haven't played someone as bad as them since we played elon in december.

By the way...they had 2 guys foul out....and another guy with 4 fouls. it's not like they didn't have to watch the foul trouble too....

also, we shot 37% from the 3. that's a completely average game for us, and well within what you'd expect against one of the best defenses in the country.

[duke09hms]

I have a hard time blaming all of 55 points in a half on trying to not foul as much. If it was, then much of that sits on K's shoulders. Put in Vrank to eat time and foul em up. put in anyone to eat fouls. If you know the refs are going to call fouls, then why are we just jacking threes on the other end as they build a lead?

I don't know if it was just game plan or execution, but we haven't played someone as bad as them since we played elon in december.

By the way...they had 2 guys foul out...and another guy with 4 fouls. it's not like they didn't have to watch the foul trouble too...

also, we shot 37% from the 3. that's a completely average game for us, and well within what you'd expect against one of the best defenses in the country.

65 pts :(

[rsvman]

Amazing second half by a supposedly offensively challenged team.

Weirdly, despite giving up 70+% shooting we still would've had a chance without those two perplexing foul calls: one on Jefferson when he was shoved to the floor, and one on Kennard when he was shoved to the floor. Four points for free. The ending of the game could've been completely different had the refs not made those two inexplicable calls.

Happy for the ACC title and for beating the cheats two out of three. I'll take what I can get and be content.

[weezie]

Anybody take on the painful task of counting the lost dribbles? Off feet, off weird bounces, just plain flubbed?

[uh_no]

65 pts :(

10: number of times SC hasn't scored 65 points in an entire game this year.

[Furniture]

We were really weak with the ball tonight. Jackson, Tatum, and Allen had 13 turnovers. That is backbreaking. And to compound that, Kennard was completely shut down.

The whole team other than Jefferson got rattled tonight. Younger guys maybe got overwhelmed by the moment and just couldn't match USC's intensity.

Just have to hope UNC falls short again.

I agree. As K would say I think they played young. The moment, the crowd, the tough D of SC. This years Brand of Duke BB wasn't good enough tonight. I think we needed something else that there was just not enough time to develop. As someone else said the injuries have not helped but in particular with Harry and Marquis. Such a shame.
I feel for these kids!!!

[TNTDevil]

At what point do we revisit the put all our eggs in the OAD recruting strategy? Even counting 2015, we are not winning at any signficantly higher rate than we did before this strategy. We don't have any more ups than we did before and frankly the downs are worse.

Plus what was for me the most rewarding part of following college basketball, that of watching young players comes in and mature and leave as young men, watching them mentor the younger players and pass the torch, have been for the most part removed from the experience. We are now lucky if we have more than one or two seniors on the team in any given year.

We used to play the kind of defense SC played tonight, when we had a team of upperclassmen who's been through the fire with each other for multiple years.Right there with you, my friend. But, alas, I fear that ship has sailed. I mean, we can't turn them away.

What has to happen is that the...ah <Imawankerblahblahblah> it.

Good luck to the Women! Go Duke!

[Troublemaker]

This is tired. The Gamecocks shot 70% in the second half when they were down five in the first. Period, end of argument. They shot 42% of the game which tells me we lost this game in the first half when we should have been up by 15-20. K was not smiling in the halftime interview, Frank Martin was on the way back.

Anyway, I watched WVU all year, which plays the same way. There will be a lot of fouls in games involving Martin/Huggins teams. We went into this game as if we had no idea South Carolina played the way we did. I get that they bump the ball handler every time down the court. I do. But this team lost a lot of games this year. They will get killed by someone in this region -- I'd love to see Wiscy play them. But again -- make a fricking adjustment to your offense in the second half.

What adjustment would you have made? Wasn't this basically just a case of elite defensive pressure (plus reffing that allowed contact, if one wants to go there) meeting the lack of point guard?

Props to those who were worried about SC. You were right.

Still, I'm very happy with the ACC championship and beating UNC twice. I hope for better health next season.


At what point do we revisit the put all our eggs in the OAD recruting strategy? Even counting 2015, we are not winning at any signficantly higher rate than we did before this strategy. We don't have any more ups than we did before and frankly the downs are worse.

Plus what was for me the most rewarding part of following college basketball, that of watching young players comes in and mature and leave as young men, watching them mentor the younger players and pass the torch, have been for the most part removed from the experience. We are now lucky if we have more than one or two seniors on the team in any given year.

We used to play the kind of defense SC played tonight, when we had a team of upperclassmen who's been through the fire with each other for multiple years.

When we've had OADs and health, it's gone pretty well... If I were going to criticize recruiting, it would be not getting enough point guards.

Putting on my spoiled hat for a second. I'm a fan of supposedly one of the top two recruiting programs in the country, and yet I feel like I hardly ever get to root for an excellent point guard.


I think this is a quality post but I really have to call out one part as being an untrue narrative. Lack of PG did not bite us in the end tonight. Did it make things difficult? Yes. But simply having a pg was not going to stop USC from scoring 500 points against us in the 2nd half. Now, THAT is what bit us. We had key guys with 3 fouls early in the 2nd. That spelled our doom as we're just not a good enough defensive team to really defend anyone while having foul issues. SC was ranked 134 (I think) before tonight in offensive efficiency. If we couldn't stop them at all despite foul issues there was no hope of going any further than tonight anyways.

I would certainly rather see Duke with a more traditional pg. I think that we could pinpoint that as a weakness early on in the season. Though our offense generally produced this season, having to rely constantly on iso plays opened us up to the struggles we saw tonight early on. But there was just no fixing the defense. Harry was way too late on getting enough of a grasp. And having Amile be the sole patroller of the lane all season ended up being just too much to ask.

That's nuts, imo. Put Kyrie or Tyus out there or, ahem, Trevon Duval, and Duke is up 20 at halftime. And the game is completely different.

[elvis14]

First, I haven't read anyone else's posts yet. I'll read them next week when I can.

I just wanted to stop in and drop a few semi-random thoughts. Thanks for listening if you read them:

First, I'm really bummed to not make it out of the first weekend.
Really bummed to lose to that team in that wrestling match.
Mostly, I'm really proud of the guys and how they kept fighting even though it didn't work out.
I feel really blessed to have gotten to watch Amile and Matt play for 5 and 4 years.
I know we'll lose a few players to the NBA but all of them at one time or another did something special in a Duke uniform and I appreciate that.
What a strange season. With all the injuries, even though we won the ACC (in 4 close games), I never felt like we reached our potential and this turned into a 'what could have been' season.
All you DBR posters that keep me informed and entertained, thanks.
One thing I keep coming back to the last season or two is a simple question: How can we adjust our defense so that it can be played successfully by freshman and sophomores? Most of the time when we aren't being tackled, we can score just fine but that question is the big picture thing that keeps coming back to me. (again, not tonight but for the last several years).
9F


Hope you guys can get some sleep. Thanks again for a great season.

[A-Tex Devil]

I have a hard time blaming all of 55 points in a half on trying to not foul as much. If it was, then much of that sits on K's shoulders. Put in Vrank to eat time and foul em up. put in anyone to eat fouls. If you know the refs are going to call fouls, then why are we just jacking threes on the other end as they build a lead?

I don't know if it was just game plan or execution, but we haven't played someone as bad as them since we played elon in december.

By the way...they had 2 guys foul out...and another guy with 4 fouls. it's not like they didn't have to watch the foul trouble too...

also, we shot 37% from the 3. that's a completely average game for us, and well within what you'd expect against one of the best defenses in the country.

Best post I've seen in the thread. I'll continue to aver that not boat-racing them in the first half given their stats was a bad, bad sign. We allowed them to have a first half like they did in the second -- they just couldn't hit a shot in the first half.

[dukelifer]

I think this is a quality post but I really have to call out one part as being an untrue narrative. Lack of PG did not bite us in the end tonight. Did it make things difficult? Yes. But simply having a pg was not going to stop USC from scoring 500 points against us in the 2nd half. Now, THAT is what bit us. We had key guys with 3 fouls early in the 2nd. That spelled our doom as we're just not a good enough defensive team to really defend anyone while having foul issues. SC was ranked 134 (I think) before tonight in offensive efficiency. If we couldn't stop them at all despite foul issues there was no hope of going any further than tonight anyways.

I would certainly rather see Duke with a more traditional pg. I think that we could pinpoint that as a weakness early on in the season. Though our offense generally produced this season, having to rely constantly on iso plays opened us up to the struggles we saw tonight early on. But there was just no fixing the defense. Harry was way too late on getting enough of a grasp. And having Amile be the sole patroller of the lane all season ended up being just too much to ask.
Sometimes an opponent over achieves. Just from the line- SC could not miss. . Duke did not get the usual production from Luke. It happens in basketball. Duke had a tough year but without Giles and Bolden doing much all year- it was a tall task. At the end of the season- many of us hoped for a 5 seed and expected an early exit. The ACC tourney gave hope but in every game Duke was down and needed other-worldly performances to come back. That made folks think that maybe this team was better. But in the end- a relatively small team was going to struggle unless they continued to shoot well. The fact that Duke got the ACC championship is a major and unexpected accomplishment. National Championships are very hard to come by.

[ChillinDuke]

For the record, I agree with Hingeknocker. Pretty much my feelings exactly.

That said, you have to be able to adjust in basketball and we didn't. So the loss is still on us.

But I do agree that it's a style of play that is essentially rewarded by the refs. Martin "games the system" by teaching to bump everyone. Refs know (whether explicitly or implicitly) that if they call too many fouls then they may get booed out the gymnasium, either in person or on tv/twitter or both. So it essentially puts pressure on the refs to make their own bed. Today they let them play on the bumping and arm barring on the perimeter. It rattled Duke. Gotta adjust and we didn't. But that still doesn't make the officiating and/or defensive philosophy fair and/or enjoyable.

Hate when the season ends in pain. Even though it more or less has to almost every year.

- Chillin

[jipops]

That's nuts, imo. Put Kyrie or Tyus out there or, ahem, Trevon Duval, and Duke is up 20 at halftime.

Because those guys grow on trees? Sure, throw out another all-time great for Duke and the result would have likely been different. But that is a little bit of fantasy isn't it? Can Duval play defense? Can he already withstand pressure from one of the country's best defenses? If not he may not have been enough to help.

[A-Tex Devil]

What adjustment would you have made? Wasn't this basically just a case of elite defensive pressure (plus reffing that allowed contact, if one wants to go there) meeting the lack of point guard?

Props to those who were worried about SC. You were right.


Are you saying that we didn't stand a chance? That's rhetorical, because I know you aren't. Kennard playing his worst ball of the season at the worst time didn't help. But when teams are guarding the perimeter like SC was, the answer is to drive, drive, drive -- but we really didn't -- we passed the ball in tough spots, creating easy TOs. I felt (1) we were unprepared for how they played defense, as if we didn't know, and (2) when we figured out SC's D was for real, we kept jacking threes instead of driving against that pressure.

We've beaten better teams this year. We've come back on better teams this year from more points down (saving the last 2-3 minutes tonight). Execution wasn't there, and I don't think it's heresy to say our game plan could have been better.

[Furniture]

I refuse to read posts that mention Derryck Thornton.

[duke09hms]

I refuse to read posts that mention Derryck Thornton.

Thank you for the announcement.
You can always ... just scroll past them.

[WHOneedsSOX]

Tough way to end the season. So much talent. So much potential. They got red hot at the right time. Unfortunately South Carolina played the best half of their entire season tonight in the 2nd half. How many shots did they miss in the 2nd half? 10 maybe? Just incredible.

Wish some of the guys would stick around another year but that just won't happen. Could be an interesting Duke team next season if all 7 guys who played tonight leave. Jackson is probably the most likely of that bunch to stay.

[ChillinDuke]

Are you saying that we didn't stand a chance? That's rhetorical, because I know you aren't. Kennard playing his worst ball of the season at the worst time didn't help. But when teams are guarding the perimeter like SC was, the answer is to drive, drive, drive -- but we really didn't -- we passed the ball in tough spots, creating easy TOs. I felt (1) we were unprepared for how they played defense, as if we didn't know, and (2) when we figured out SC's D was for real, we kept jacking threes instead of driving against that pressure.

We've beaten better teams this year. We've come back on better teams this year from more points down (saving the last 2-3 minutes tonight). Execution wasn't there, and I don't think it's heresy to say our game plan could have been better.

Seems to me we did drive drive drive but got bumped off our lines almost every time. I thought that was precisely what freedom of movement was supposed to disallow.

Whatever, though. I hate being the guy harping on officiating. We just couldn't find a way today.

- Chillin

[dukelifer]

At what point do we revisit the put all our eggs in the OAD recruting strategy? Even counting 2015, we are not winning at any signficantly higher rate than we did before this strategy. We don't have any more ups than we did before and frankly the downs are worse.

Plus what was for me the most rewarding part of following college basketball, that of watching young players comes in and mature and leave as young men, watching them mentor the younger players and pass the torch, have been for the most part removed from the experience. We are now lucky if we have more than one or two seniors on the team in any given year.

We used to play the kind of defense SC played tonight, when we had a team of upperclassmen who's been through the fire with each other for multiple years.
What rate are you expecting? Yes - it was fun when no one left for the NBA. But when you start recruiting the better players - that will happen. No one expected Tyus Jones to go pro- but he did because they won a championship. Stuff happens. Would you prefer Duke to be Mich State? They may be the most consistent tourney team. They tend to win every 20 years.

[uh_no]

I refuse to read posts that mention Derryck Thornton.

but can you imagine if semi was still on the team???? (mouth waters)

Plus okafor, tyus and justics would all be juniors!

[CoachJ10]

Are you saying that we didn't stand a chance? That's rhetorical, because I know you aren't. Kennard playing his worst ball of the season at the worst time didn't help. But when teams are guarding the perimeter like SC was, the answer is to drive, drive, drive -- but we really didn't -- we passed the ball in tough spots, creating easy TOs. I felt (1) we were unprepared for how they played defense, as if we didn't know, and (2) when we figured out SC's D was for real, we kept jacking threes instead of driving against that pressure.

We've beaten better teams this year. We've come back on better teams this year from more points down (saving the last 2-3 minutes tonight). Execution wasn't there, and I don't think it's heresy to say our game plan could have been better.

Luke drove plenty of times...and was manhandled on most of them. So did Jayson. And then Luke got in foul trouble and was out of the flow on offense.

[Troublemaker]

Because those guys grow on trees? Sure, throw out another all-time great for Duke and the result would have likely been different. But that is a little bit of fantasy isn't it?

It's not a fantasy. Kentucky puts a very good to great point guard out there almost every year. How about just A point guard? We can probably put A point guard on the roster.

That said, I am removing my spoiled hat now. It's just something I've noticed.

[Ian]

What rate are you expecting? Yes - it was fun when no one left for the NBA. But when you start recruiting the better players - that will happen. No one expected Tyus Jones to go pro- but he did because they won a championship. Stuff happens. Would you prefer Duke to be Mich State? They may be the most consistent tourney team. They tend to win every 20 years.

No, I prefer Duke to be Duke pre-2011, seems we were pretty successful before all the OAD stuff.

[rsvman]

Backing up threes" works when you make 'em. Heck, at 37%, we probably should've shot more of them, not fewer. That's effectively 55.7% if those had been twos.
If jacking up threes would've meant fewer turnovers, it would have been a winning strategy.

[freshmanjs]

No, I prefer Duke to be Duke pre-2011, seems we were pretty successful before all the OAD stuff.

Pre 2011:

2010 NC
2009 Sw16
2008 Rd32
2007 Rd64
2006 Sw16
2005 Sw16
2004 F4

Post 2011

2011 Sw16
2012 Rd64
2013 E8
2014 Rd64
2015 NC
2016 Sw16
2017 Rd32

It's not that different.

[dukefan_828]

Officiating was god awful, but it's hard to beat 75% shooting and 65pts in a half. I said in chat w about 14min left in the game it just didn't feel like our night, ala Syracuse game. Also besides Amile, and im sure Matt we just seemed to lack intensity tonight. This is also the down side of the 4 in 4, that was only a week ago. guys were exhausted Marquese out, coach said several had a cold, and i think Luke was one. I hate JT and HG will declare,but i hope G and Luke come back. Although If so how are we going to distribute playing time between 4 and possibly a (crossing fingers) 5th guard in Duval next year? Tear Drops on my pillow tonight as i think this team SEVERELY under achieved but they got to hang a banner something that hadn't happened in 6 LONG years. Although the ultimate goal was not achieved & i thought the sweet 16 was the earliest this team would exit Duke has historically struggled against TALL LONG ATHLETIC teams, plus this was a true road game so shouldn't be to shocked. Lets take a few weeks to lick our wounds hope to see the cheats get bounced (misery loves company) and all come together for some Good Ol Duke Football.

[uh_no]

Backing up threes" works when you make 'em. Heck, at 37%, we probably should've shot more of them, not fewer. That's effectively 55.7% if those had been twos.
If jacking up threes would've meant fewer turnovers, it would have been a winning strategy.

we largely couldn't get open looks in the second half. they were able to hug the perimeter due to our refusal to go inside. we started having success when we forced it a little more to amile. Given that we couldn't play defense worth a lick anyway, maybe we should have just put luke out there and run the typical zone offense with him at the elbow. Not sure I saw that once tonight.

[MrPoon]

What a season. Hope some people here can take a more balanced view. Winning the ACC Tournament should not be undervalued.

The parts never came together even for two back to back halves. This team played in ten minute stretches, some amazing, some confounding.

I will argue until I'm kicked off this board that the point guard argument is a straw man argument. This team won a lot of games and had a lot of very good ball handlers. The difference is it truely never came together as a coherent, consistent offense that could play defense without fouling. That is it. I don't know why. Perhaps it's easy to blame the injuries. Perhaps K could have done things different.

But he is ALWAYS going after the best talent that fits the program. So the one and done argument is a waste of time (and should be).

I loved watching Tatum this year grow and become a great player. So glad he chose Duke. I really enjoyed watching Jackson find his way and work to blend in and I suspect he'll be a huge part of this team's success next year. So greatful for the toughness and leadership of Jefferson and Jones. Really glad Jone's shot delivered for him by the end of the year. Luke's growth has been great and I really appreciate the toughness Grayson showed in the late part of the year. We don't win the ACC without him. My heart goes out to Giles and Bolden. How hard of a year must this have been? How many broken dreams for things outside their control.

Tonight the officiating was very challenging. The home crowd should never have been an issue. But they were and this team's margin for error all year has been too tight for those challenges.

As an aside, the NCAA benefits from the Cinderella story and allowing less skilled teams to play more physically helps that narrative. Reminds me of the NHL of the 90s. Keep lower revenue team's competitive by allowing teams to be very physical. Same thing here.

[WHOneedsSOX]

we largely couldn't get open looks in the second half. they were able to hug the perimeter due to our refusal to go inside. we started having success when we forced it a little more to amile. Given that we couldn't play defense worth a lick anyway, maybe we should have just put luke out there and run the typical zone offense with him at the elbow. Not sure I saw that once tonight.

Wonder why Tatum barely touched the ball at the free throw line against the zone too. He obviously is great attacking from there.

[DukeDevil]

I hope Bolden shook hands with the refs after the game. :mad:

Happy we came away with an ACC tournament banner at least.

[KandG]

Wonder why Tatum barely touched the ball at the free throw line against the zone too. He obviously is great attacking from there.

SC was denying everything into the elbow, even the routine passes into Amile, and daring us to pass over the front of their D or drive straight into it. Our excessive perimeter orientation really hurt us there -- they forced us to shoot and/or attack from much further out, and our lack of playmaking and strong athletes inside ultimately limited us.

[pamtar]

Wonder why Tatum barely touched the ball at the free throw line against the zone too. He obviously is great attacking from there.

This. We didn't run our usual zone offense at all. And why did we keep pressing? We never forced a turnover and our guys seemed tired as hell. We ended up having a reactive defense because SC got the ball up court with ease.

[CoachJ10]

What a season. Hope some people here can take a more balanced view. Winning the ACC Tournament should not be undervalued.

The parts never came together even for two back to back halves. This team played in ten minute stretches, some amazing, some confounding.

I will argue until I'm kicked off this board that the point guard argument is a straw man argument. This team won a lot of games and had a lot of very good ball handlers. The difference is it truely never came together as a coherent, consistent offense that could play defense without fouling. That is it. I don't know why. Perhaps it's easy to blame the injuries. Perhaps K could have done things different.

But he is ALWAYS going after the best talent that fits the program. So the one and done argument is a waste of time (and should be).

I loved watching Tatum this year grow and become a great player. So glad he chose Duke. I really enjoyed watching Jackson find his way and work to blend in and I suspect he'll be a huge part of this team's success next year. So greatful for the toughness and leadership of Jefferson and Jones. Really glad Jone's shot delivered for him by the end of the year. Luke's growth has been great and I really appreciate the toughness Grayson showed in the late part of the year. We don't win the ACC without him. My heart goes out to Giles and Bolden. How hard of a year must this have been? How many broken dreams for things outside their control.

Tonight the officiating was very challenging. The home crowd should never have been an issue. But they were and this team's margin for error all year has been too tight for those challenges.

As an aside, the NCAA benefits from the Cinderella story and allowing less skilled teams to play more physically helps that narrative. Reminds me of the NHL of the 90s. Keep lower revenue team's competitive by allowing teams to be very physical. Same thing here.

The NCAA encouraging this kind of reffing doesn't help the "Cinderella" story. All it does is make real basketball fans shake their head at allowing the game to devolve. Shame on them.

[Troublemaker]

Seems to me we did drive drive drive but got bumped off our lines almost every time. I thought that was precisely what freedom of movement was supposed to disallow.
- Chillin


Luke drove plenty of times...and was manhandled on most of them. So did Jayson. And then Luke got in foul trouble and was out of the flow on offense.

That's what I saw, too. And, whether it was an uncalled foul or not, the drives would often lead to turnovers.


Backing up threes" works when you make 'em. Heck, at 37%, we probably should've shot more of them, not fewer. That's effectively 55.7% if those had been twos.
If jacking up threes would've meant fewer turnovers, it would have been a winning strategy.

I had a similar interesting thought. SC actually gives up a lot of offensive rebounds typically. It would've been interesting to see us play a lot of Giles and Jefferson together and just have the 3 perimeter players jack threes (to avoid turnovers, as you stated) and try to get offensive rebounds when they miss. (Not saying it would've worked -- just that it'd have been a fun experiment.)

[Duke76]

I hope Bolden shook hands with the refs after the game. :mad:

Happy we came away with an ACC tournament banner at least.

I would just like to know where those refs came from....I had never seen one and it was called like no other game this year. You would think that they would let the coaches know before hand they are gonna call it that way....Is that the way the game is called in the SEC...maybe they were SEC refs?

[Edouble]

SC was denying everything into the elbow, even the routine passes into Amile, and daring us to pass over the front of their D or drive straight into it. Our excessive perimeter orientation really hurt us there -- they forced us to shoot and/or attack from much further out, and our lack of playmaking and strong athletes inside ultimately limited us.
farther

[g-money]

As many of us are aware, the biggest problem we've had since Coach K went all-in on one-and-dones is our inability to defend. I don't know if K needs to adapt his recruiting targets or change his coaching tactics, but it is very painful to see A) Duke teams consistently getting their doors blown off defensively in NCAA games; and B) Duke consistently rated behind Kentucky in defensive efficiency at the end of the season. (2015 was obviously a glorious exception.)

To me the saddest part about this year is that in Harry and Marques, we seemed to have two guys with the physical tools to be great rim protectors. The fact that injuries (and the resulting lack of PT), plus their perhaps not quite being ready to defend at the college level, made them defensive liabilities instead of strengths may ultimately the biggest reasons our season is done.

A big THANK YOU to Amile and Matt for four great years plus a natty. Thanks also to our all of our guys that will not be back next year.

PS I don't blame the refs for this loss, but I thought they were terrible for both sides and terrible in the Carolina game as well. I hate the lack of refereeing consistency throughout the season and in the NCAA tournament in particular. It makes the game borderline unwatchable, and is a big reason why I won't even bother tuning in the next couple of weeks. I also hate the pod system which leads to these questionable "neutral" court games.

PPS Tickets to the Eastern Regional Final have really swing to a buyers' market with no Duke or Villanova. Sorry to all those that went out on a limb and bought tickets.

[Ian]

Pre 2011:

2010 NC
2009 Sw16
2008 Rd32
2007 Rd64
2006 Sw16
2005 Sw16
2004 F4

Post 2011

2011 Sw16
2012 Rd64
2013 E8
2014 Rd64
2015 NC
2016 Sw16
2017 Rd32

It's not that different.

Let's look at the Kenpom rankings:

2004 O: 3 D: 3 overall: 1
2005 O:14 D: 2 overall: 2
2006 O:1 D:18 overall: 2
2007 O:49 D:5 overall 10
2008 O:14 D:7 overall 6
2009 O:7 D:31 overall 9
2010 O:1 D:5 overall 1

Notice: Never finished below 10 overall, only twice had Defense ranking below top 7.

2011 O:6 D:11 overall:3
2012 O:8 D:78 overall:19
2013 O:6 D:26 overall:6
2014 O:1 D:87 overall 8
2015 O:3 D:12 overall 3
2016 O:4 D:86 overall 17
2017 O:7 D:48 overall 16

By recruiting the highly touted, offensively gifted OADs, our offensive rankings and become more consistent, but the collapse on the defensive side is apparant. Have not cracked the top 10 defense once in that span, 5 of the seven years finishing out of the top 25 in defense.

I was generous when I said the last seven years were no better than the previous 7, now having looked at the numbers it's actually significantly worse.

[A-Tex Devil]

Wonder why Tatum barely touched the ball at the free throw line against the zone too. He obviously is great attacking from there.

Honestly, Tatum had his chances tonight. He is a great player, but, man, I haven't seen a guy with that much talent turn it over or miss a bunny as much as he did all year.

[WHOneedsSOX]

SC was denying everything into the elbow, even the routine passes into Amile, and daring us to pass over the front of their D or drive straight into it. Our excessive perimeter orientation really hurt us there -- they forced us to shoot and/or attack from much further out, and our lack of playmaking and strong athletes inside ultimately limited us.

Have to move the ball quickly from side to side opening up holes in the defense. Holding the ball and staring at the high post isn't going to get him open.

[buddy]

Pre 2011:

2010 NC
2009 Sw16
2008 Rd32
2007 Rd64
2006 Sw16
2005 Sw16
2004 F4

Post 2011

2011 Sw16
2012 Rd64
2013 E8
2014 Rd64
2015 NC
2016 Sw16
2017 Rd32

It's not that different.

But isn't it supposed to be? At some point I will compare our 7 year history in the OAD era with unc's. Surprisingly we are not head and shoulders better than them. In seven seasons we have had 1 Natty (yeah!), one Elite 8, 2 Sweet Sixteen, 1 32, and 2 64s. It is very much feast or famine. By that comparison the last seven years are not quite as good as the previous seven. My point is that the emphasis on OADs has not resulted in significantly improved performance.

[Troublemaker]

Let's look at the Kenpom rankings:

2004 O: 3 D: 3 overall: 1
2005 O:14 D: 2 overall: 2
2006 O:1 D:18 overall: 2
2007 O:49 D:5 overall 10
2008 O:14 D:7 overall 6
2009 O:7 D:31 overall 9
2010 O:1 D:5 overall 1

Notice: Never finished below 10 overall, only twice had Defense ranking below top 7.

2011 O:6 D:11 overall:3
2012 O:8 D:78 overall:19
2013 O:6 D:26 overall:6
2014 O:1 D:87 overall 8
2015 O:3 D:12 overall 3
2016 O:4 D:86 overall 17
2017 O:7 D:48 overall 16

By recruiting the highly touted, offensively gifted OADs, our offensive rankings and become more consistent, but the collapse on the defensive side is apparant. Have not cracked the top 10 defense once in that span, 5 of the seven years finishing out of the top 25 in defense.

I was generous when I said the last seven years were no better than the previous 7, now having looked at the numbers it's actually significantly worse.

Duke had a veteran team this year, though, no? There was a veteran core of 4 players, and then we added 2 freshmen, Frank and Jayson, to form a core 6. Frank and Jayson weren't world-beaters on defense, but they weren't far below average or anything.

What hurt us was injuries to the freshman bigs. Or put this another way. If I had told you before the season that Duke would only have 6 players they could rely on, and Amile would play center on a bone bruise (and eventually a bad shoulder - what a warrior!) that would hurt his rebounding numbers, you would've predicted the team that you eventually saw. And the team managed to win an ACC title and beat UNC twice. For me, I'm going to appreciate that and hope for better health in coming years.

[A-Tex Devil]

But isn't it supposed to be? At some point I will compare our 7 year history in the OAD era with unc's. Surprisingly we are not head and shoulders better than them. In seven seasons we have had 1 Natty (yeah!), one Elite 8, 2 Sweet Sixteen, 1 32, and 2 64s. It is very much feast or famine. By that comparison the last seven years are not quite as good as the previous seven. My point is that the emphasis on OADs has not resulted in significantly improved performance.

Who has done better with a natty in that time period? Honest question - I don't know the numbers. If we are in the top three, as much as I blame K for some of the game planning tonight, I am still game for the OAD approach.

[IrishDevil]

Tough game to watch - with USC shooting so poorly in the first half, and usually not because of our defense, there was always a sense we were on thin ice. Like a few have said, it reminded me some of 2004 (also my freshman year at Duke). In 2004, Calhoun saw the refs' writing on the wall, sat Okafor with early foul trouble and let the refs pile fouls on our frontcourt while Okafor rested and waited; K did not adjust, left our frontcourt in, and watched Nick Horvath try to defend Emeka Okafor in the final minutes with a trip to the Championship on the line. Tonight, Martin had his guys playing as physically as the refs would allow, and K said himself in the presser that we did not adjust as well as they did. We were drawing fouls in the first half, but their pressure rattled us in the second half and we seemed to resign ourselves to their impenetrability and stood passing around the perimeter at times.

Tatum's usage in the zone was raised above - I noticed the same thing, and have seen K do this in the past against zone. In particular, I remember Rodney not being placed at the free throw line at Syracuse when he also seemed like a natural fit for this role - decent vision, ability to turn and attack off the dribble or hit the jumper. All I can guess is that K, rather than have someone attack from the free throw line like Jayson would have done, prefers to have someone at that spot to quickly relocate the ball to an open 3 pt shooter after the zone collapses. If that is his goal, it would make sense to keep Jayson on the perimeter in a catch and shoot role. Why that is the preference, particularly when you have a skilled forward like Jayson and an expert baseline lurker in Amile to add a high-low component to that zone attack, is a question for the GOAT.

All in all, a disappointing end to the season - but then again, they usually are, which we can be spoiled into forgetting sometimes.

What an interesting season. This will definitely go down with 2011 (The Toe) and 2005 (Whither Livingston) as a What If season. Proud of the toughness our guys showed, both tonight and throughout the season's adversity. That ACC tourney run was special and should not be overlooked. I will miss Amile and Matt, and likely Grayson, too. Who knows what the roster will look like next season, but it is my hope that we get a chance to see what an offseason full of postseason-disappointment-turned-fury-and-determination will do for Frank and Luke. I vainly hope that I get to see the same for Harry, but I suspect he will be a bit occupied with his NBA career.

Let's go Duke, go Duke women, and let the 2017-2018 minutes threads commence!

[CharlestonDave]

In my opinion this was a disappointing and unsuccessful season.

For those of you who feel that winning the ACC Tournament and beating UNC 2 times made for a successful season you certainly are entitled to your opinion.

This is not what Duke basketball is about, in my opinion; it is about winning or going very far in the NCAA Tournament . It is not about losing in the second round of the tournament. Injuries had nothing to do with us going home .

Up until the ACC tournament , I agreed with the argument that injuries played a key factor in the overall season performance.That argument went out the window after the ACC tournament . Duke got back its mojo after that and we were rewarded a number 2 seed . There were some who argued that we should have gotten a number 1 seed.

We all thought that we were going to be something special again and we failed . Why we failed I will leave to those on this Board who have better insight than I do, but failed we did which made in my opinion, for an unsuccessful season.

You can chastise me, criticize me , give me a notification, that is your perogative.

P.S. The ACC was a very overrated conference as judged by only 1 team remaining in the 16. The Pac 10, The SEC and the Big 10 all have 3 teams remaining.

[OZ]

Just got home... not much left in the think tank here...

...with all the injuries... Coach K's surgery... the circus around Allen... trying to find a way and/or a time to fit the pieces together... then creating history by winning the ACCT - winning four games in four days...then finally, N C politics and the selection committee forcing us, as a 2 seed, to play a tough team, in what amounted to a home game for them... this was not a good year or a bad year... ... but, it certainly was a bizarre year. It's going to take a while to process.

[grateful_duke]

As cliché as it is, Duke picked the wrong game to have a bad day.

Oh and the NCAA giving a #7 seed, South Carolina, a home game in Greenville, SC against a #2 in the 2nd round of the Tournament. Put any other 7 seed there and let South Carolina play in any other region... pretty ridiculous... but with that being said, they definitely outplayed the Devils... 65 points in the 2nd half against any team in unacceptable.

I'm ready to look ahead to 2017-18 at this point... someone start a thread I gotta take my mind of tonight... arghhhh but man I have so much respect for these kids... especially Amile.. what a boss... good luck to these guys whatever they choose to do or wherever they may end up in professional basketball/life.... cheers gang...

[eddiehaskell]

Is 65 points in a half the record against K?

If so, it's pretty amazing that the record was set in the 2nd round of the NCAAT with Duke being a #2 seed....against a team that ranks something like #120 in adjusted offense.

Worst defensive outing in Duke history?

[proelitedota]

Is 65 points in a half the record against K?

If so, it's pretty amazing that the record was set in the 2nd round of the NCAAT with Duke being a #2 seed...against a team that ranks something like #120 in adjusted offense.

Worst defensive outing in Duke history?

It can't possibly be the obvious fact that we weren't allowed to play the same defense we've been playing the whole year.

[eddiehaskell]

It can't possibly be the obvious fact that we weren't allowed to play the same defense we've been playing the whole year.Even playing by prison rules, I think giving up 65 points in 20 minutes (actually 19.5 minutes considering we got the ball to start the half) is mind blowing. I bet our guys wont sleep for a week due to flashbacks of USC players putting the ball in the hoop unmercifully. It's not like we were trying to scrimmage an NBA team.

[heyman25]

The South Carolina relentless pressure wore Duke out.However,before the game they were told to lock in.Be strong with the ball. That never happened the whole game. South Carolina had their championship in Greenville. I predict that team will flame out. Frank Martin is a great coach, but I would not be surprised if they lose the next game. Duke disappointed their fans. Injuries were a problem, but I think they need to rethink their training and conditioning. Basketball is a contact sport,but what happened before the season started needs to be evaluated. 70% shooting in the 2nd half by S. Carolina showed all the flaws of this team. Hope Bolden,Jeter, DeLauvier stay,but I would not blame them if they say goodbye in the Spring.


Kennard,Allen, and Giles have to test the NBA draft. We get great recruits, but I think if we don't get Duval we probably will be outside looking in the NCAA tournament Trent and Carter will be great,but we are in need of a point guard.

[dukelifer]

The South Carolina relentless pressure wore Duke out.However,before the game they were told to lock in.Be strong with the ball. That never happened the whole game. South Carolina had their championship in Greenville. I predict that team will flame out. Frank Martin is a great coach, but I would not be surprised if they lose the next game. Duke disappointed their fans. Injuries were a problem, but I think they need to rethink their training and conditioning. Basketball is a contact sport,but what happened before the season started needs to be evaluated. 70% shooting in the 2nd half by S. Carolina showed all the flaws of this team. Hope Bolden,Jeter, DeLauvier stay,but I would not blame them if they say goodbye in the Spring.


Kennard,Allen, and Giles have to test the NBA draft. We get great recruits, but I think if we don't get Duval we probably will be outside looking in the NCAA tournament Trent and Carter will be great,but we are in need of a point guard.

Conditioning? The first team that won 4 games in 4 days in the ACC tourney is not well conditioned? 70% shooting showed what happens when a team gets hot. It was far from a layup drill.

[dukelifer]

The NCAA encouraging this kind of reffing doesn't help the "Cinderella" story. All it does is make real basketball fans shake their head at allowing the game to devolve. Shame on them.

When you get rid of your top teams- you devalue your product. I suspect no one outside of the respective school fan bases will be watching SC - Baylor.

[luburch]

First, it's always wise to ignore trolls.

Picked a bad night to have a bad game. Thought Duke was in trouble when they couldn't extend the lead in the first half. South Carolina did a good job of not letting Duke spread them out. Nullified the drive and kick.

Always hurts to see the season end before the second weekend. Happy to have the ACC title in the back pocket.

Matt and Amile were a joy to watch for 4/4.5 years. Left it all on the court and leave Duke as champions. Once Tatum figured out the college game, he was a special player. I'd love to see Kennard leading the line next year, but understand if he chooses to strike while the iron is hot.

Really want to thank Grayson. He went through more this year than any college player will likely ever go through. He came back this season knowing he would have a lesser role, because he loves Duke and wanted another championship. He came off the bench when K asked him to. He endured injury after injury. He finally started to put it back together at the end of the year when he got healthy. It's been a privilege to watch him wear a Duke jersey for the last three seasons. Forever one of my favorite Blue Devils.

[Saratoga2]

First a thankyou to the team for providing us with many thrilling games during the season and winning the ACC tourney against great odds. Will miss the guys who have given so much and wish them well.

A note on the game is that it was like a home game for them. Also, the officiating was extremely tight as compared to many other games I watched during the week.

USC did beat us and would probably do it again in a rematch. We were not strong with the ball, turning the ball over 18 times to their 11. That is 7 more opportunites right there. They also slightly outrebounded us by 3. Our defense in the second half was very poor as it appeared between the foul trouble and the wear factor, we were largely spent.

I noticed that Luke appeared quite passive during most of the game and was deferring to others. He got rid of the ball like a hot potato and only tried 6 shots all night. Was he deferring to Grayson or was the defense they played that good?

When they played a 3 - 2 zone, they ran us off the 3 point line while stripping anyone trying to dribble through. We didn't try to put a player at the top of the key. Still the problem wasn't so much offense as it was the total breakdown of the defense. I thought Amile was our only player to really challenge them in the paint.

Was the short rotation something to think about for coach K?

[fuse]

What a wild and weird (and sometimes wonderful) season.

Amile was on from the opening tip.
I'm thankful for the careers he and Matt Jones had at Duke.

I thought Grayson gave everything he had also.

Not valuing/playing soft with the ball was a real problem.
Tatum, Jackson and Grayson really were not strong with the ball like they needed to be.

My anointed most important player, Kennard, was a non factor in the game.

As much as I dislike hero ball, I kept waiting for Tatum to take over.

If I had not bought into the preseason media narrative about how we were going to be a team for the ages, I might have tempered my expectations for the season.

The one area I wish the team could have improved on was toughness- we played soft an awful lot this season. My hope is that the Frank Jackson death stare and chip on the shoulder is contagious next season and we play with some old school Duke swagger.

Lest it be overlooked, a massive thank you to Bob Harris.
(Bob, if you read DBR, I still want your job now that you have chosen to retire.)

[weezie]

...I noticed that Luke appeared quite passive during most of the game and was deferring to others...

Would't be surprised if Luke has a broken nose or some kind of damage from the Friday hit.

[dukelifer]

What a wild and weird (and sometimes wonderful) season.

Amile was on from the opening tip.
I'm thankful for the careers he and Matt Jones had at Duke.

I thought Grayson gave everything he had also.

Not valuing/playing soft with the ball was a real problem.
Tatum, Jackson and Grayson really were not strong with the ball like they needed to be.

My anointed most important player, Kennard, was a non factor in the game.

As much as I dislike hero ball, I kept waiting for Tatum to take over.

If I had not bought into the preseason media narrative about how we were going to be a team for the ages, I might have tempered my expectations for the season.

The one area I wish the team could have improved on was toughness- we played soft an awful lot this season. My hope is that the Frank Jackson death stare and chip on the shoulder is contagious next season and we play with some old school Duke swagger.

Lest it be overlooked, a massive thank you to Bob Harris.
(Bob, if you read DBR, I still want your job now that you have chosen to retire.)
You have to be pretty tough to be down in 3 consecutive ACC tourney games and pull out a win. This team could have given more on the defensive end of the floor at times but they showed toughness.

[Aziggazoomba]

There's little chance this post won't be seen as some sort of schadenfreuliches gloat, but (it really isn't meant that way and) I'll post it anyway.

I know you guys are disappointed (crushed, even), but your season really witnessed a stupendous turnaround from where things were in January, and that ACC tournament run was one for the ages. (Which is probably small comfort, if that.)

And there's still the joy that comes from hating and pulling as hard as you can against your most hated rival (whom you beat 2X this year, which I still can't get past)...

Go Heels.

[DukeDevil]

What do you call a dog that does magic?

A labracadabrador!

7277

I bought a thesaurus online and when it arrived all the pages were blank.

I have no words to describe how angry I am!

What's the difference between a dirty old bus stop and a lobster with breast implants?

One's a crusty bus station and the other's a busty crustacean!

Yeah I still feel like crap too. Barf.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I am not one to look for excuses - you won't find me blaming the refs- but is there any truth to the grumblings we heard between the ACC Tournament and this weekend that perhaps several players had the flu, other than just Bolden?

Seems it would explain some of the perceived "softness" from a team I thought showed a lot of grit the last few weeks of the season.

[kmspeaks]

Blaming referees for one or two close calls in critical moments is for losers. Being frustrated with refs who consistently fail to enforce the rules for the entire game is another story. There's been a lot of talk about lack of adjustments but what adjustments do you make to being manhandled? If a team overplays passing lanes you use back door cuts, if they switch everything you screen until you get a favorable match up you can exploit. I honestly don't know what you're supposed to tell guys who can't run, pass, or dribble without being pushed, grabbed, shoved, or held. I mean there's a reason those things are against the rules - they make it very difficult to play basketball. I'd love if some of our great basketball minds could weigh in here because "you have to adjust" just sounds like an empty cliche.

[wavedukefan70s]

Would't be surprised if Luke has a broken nose or some kind of damage from the Friday hit.

I thought the same thing.i hope you guys do well .someone in the ACC has to.i would really like the conference to save face.it may be to late for that though.

[UNCfan]

UNC fans had the same sinking feeling in the game before. I know it is a horrible feeling, and while I am glad a NC rematch is off the table, I am sorry for my Duke friends that have their teams season has come to an end.

Wow. Did I just type that? I feel like I took a huge step forward as a person, and perhaps one step back as a fan. I guess having a little girl does weird things to a die-hard heels fan.

[NYBri]

I am and will always be a true blue Duke fan.

Highs. Expectations. Cameron. GOAT. Incredible talent. Great character. History. Success.

I am lucky.

Thank you, Matt, Amile, Grayson, Jayson, Harry and Luke. Thank you, again.

Next year! Next play! Let's go Duke!!!!

[DukieInBrasil]

this season was all about unfulfilled potential. Seemed like we were getting close, maybe even achieved our potential, in the ACC tournament.
The lack of a PG really capped the upside of this team. SC bumped, hip-checked, bodied, pulled and pushed their way to totally dismantling our backcourt b/c we had nobody who could handle the ball with authority. I've never seen a Duke team so completely unable to handle the ball.
Yet again, this team was doomed by its inability to put more distance between itself and the opponent in the 1st half. We shot almost 60% for the half and they shot 20%, and we only led by 7. With Amile Jefferson as our only useful big man we just couldn't get enough defensive rebounds to come away with stops.

[mkirsh]

Let's look at the Kenpom rankings:

2004 O: 3 D: 3 overall: 1
2005 O:14 D: 2 overall: 2
2006 O:1 D:18 overall: 2
2007 O:49 D:5 overall 10
2008 O:14 D:7 overall 6
2009 O:7 D:31 overall 9
2010 O:1 D:5 overall 1

Notice: Never finished below 10 overall, only twice had Defense ranking below top 7.

2011 O:6 D:11 overall:3
2012 O:8 D:78 overall:19
2013 O:6 D:26 overall:6
2014 O:1 D:87 overall 8
2015 O:3 D:12 overall 3
2016 O:4 D:86 overall 17
2017 O:7 D:48 overall 16

By recruiting the highly touted, offensively gifted OADs, our offensive rankings and become more consistent, but the collapse on the defensive side is apparant. Have not cracked the top 10 defense once in that span, 5 of the seven years finishing out of the top 25 in defense.

I was generous when I said the last seven years were no better than the previous 7, now having looked at the numbers it's actually significantly worse.

Thanks for digging up the data.

Is age/OAD the correct correlation, or is it other factors (increase use of PNR in college hoops, FOM rule changes, etc)? Looking at the data sets and diving into some of the seasons, the 2007 team ranked 5th in total defense, same as the 2010 title team, yet that team was almost entirely freshman and sophs plus junior Demarcus. Somehow they figured out how to play defense without years in the system. Similarly in the post-OAD data set the 2013 team, with 3 seniors, a junior, a soph, and a freshman making the 6 man rotation, was very experienced (similar to 2010) but outside the top 25 in D ranking. Our best team in this stretch played the most OADs in the rotation. This year's team included 2 seniors, a junior, a soph, and 3 freshman in its primary rotation, only 2 of which are OAD (and one of those two had the fewest minutes in the 7 man group). While it is clear that defense was consistently better pre-2010 compared to post-2010, I'm not sure OAD and experience is the main driver of the difference.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

UNC fans had the same sinking feeling in the game before. I know it is a horrible feeling, and while I am glad a NC rematch is off the table, I am sorry for my Duke friends that have their teams season has come to an end.

Wow. Did I just type that? I feel like I took a huge step forward as a person, and perhaps one step back as a fan. I guess having a little girl does weird things to a die-hard heels fan.

Watching those two games back to back was eerily similar. Two games against SEC teams that aren't Kentucky, who play scrappy D and hope to score enough points to win. UNC buckled down, had a few lucky bounces, and came out on the right end. Duke ended up on the short end of the stick, one run short of the win.

It didn't feel like we had too many one and dones, that our bench was too short, that we were missing a point guard... it felt like we met a team that was hitting its stride, well geared to give us fits, and riding a wave of emotion, while our team was flat at the wrong moment and didn't make the adjustments to our game that we needed.

Also, I can't remember ever a team shooting 20% in one half and 70% in the second. You can't chalk that up to just "bad defense" - that's something in the basketball karma that can't be scapegoated.

[Duke76]

Just got home... not much left in the think tank here...

...with all the injuries... Coach K's surgery... the circus around Allen... trying to find a way and/or a time to fit the pieces together... then creating history by winning the ACCT - winning four games in four days...then finally, N C politics and the selection committee forcing us, as a 2 seed, to play a tough team, in what amounted to a home game for them... this was not a good year or a bad year... ... but, it certainly was a bizarre year. It's going to take a while to process.

I'd also add playing in a hockey stadium where the refs seemed to be from the NHL, who were those guys?

[Duke76]

Watching those two games back to back was eerily similar. Two games against SEC teams that aren't Kentucky, who play scrappy D and hope to score enough points to win. UNC buckled down, had a few lucky bounces, and came out on the right end. Duke ended up on the short end of the stick, one run short of the win.

It didn't feel like we had too many one and dones, that our bench was too short, that we were missing a point guard... it felt like we met a team that was hitting its stride, well geared to give us fits, and riding a wave of emotion, while our team was flat at the wrong moment and didn't make the adjustments to our game that we needed.

Also, I can't remember ever a team shooting 20% in one half and 70% in the second. You can't chalk that up to just "bad defense" - that's something in the basketball karma that can't be scapegoated.

You are so right, karma is a big thing,,,not to dissimilar to the atlanta falcons flameout...how could that have happened, you say the same with the blue devils ...that USC was placed there to refs we had never seen before, to flue going around the team....positive and negative karma got us

[TampaDuke]

Blaming referees for one or two close calls in critical moments is for losers. Being frustrated with refs who consistently fail to enforce the rules for the entire game is another story. There's been a lot of talk about lack of adjustments but what adjustments do you make to being manhandled? If a team overplays passing lanes you use back door cuts, if they switch everything you screen until you get a favorable match up you can exploit. I honestly don't know what you're supposed to tell guys who can't run, pass, or dribble without being pushed, grabbed, shoved, or held. I mean there's a reason those things are against the rules - they make it very difficult to play basketball. I'd love if some of our great basketball minds could weigh in here because "you have to adjust" just sounds like an empty cliche.

In the first half, the refs were calling USC for these fouls. Sure, they called some stinkers on Duke (Kennard having the audacity to go up for a rebound comes to mind), but in my mind the critical point in this game was when USC switched to zone we were clueless. USC was in the bonus with about 13 min left in the first half and they were picking up fouls left and right. They then switched to zone and barely picked up a couple of fouls the rest of the half and into the second half. I think we got very tentative with their zone. We needed to drive aggressively into it, feed the high post and quickly drive, or really push the ball up the court in transition. We would have forced them to foul. Sure, we would have turned it over a few times and/or committed some offensive fouls, but we'd also have gotten a few more of them in foul trouble and forced them to relax their aggression. Instead, what I saw was that we tentatively moved the ball around the perimeter until about 9-10 seconds left on the shot clock and then tried to drive. I don't think a ref is as apt to bail you out with a foul call in that situation and you've limited your options to drive and pass if you hit a defensive wall. I'm not sure why the team seemed so tentative, but it even led to us passing up a few open 3s late in the game that we normally take (and make).

All in all, I'm disappointed this morning for the team, especially the upperclassmen, but I'm very proud of their accomplishments this year.

[uh_no]

In the first half, the refs were calling USC for these fouls. Sure, they called some stinkers on Duke (Kennard having the audacity to go up for a rebound comes to mind), but in my mind the critical point in this game was when USC switched to zone we were clueless. USC was in the bonus with about 13 min left in the first half and they were picking up fouls left and right. They then switched to zone and barely picked up a couple of fouls the rest of the half and into the second half. I think we got very tentative with their zone. We needed to drive aggressively into it, feed the high post and quickly drive, or really push the ball up the court in transition. We would have forced them to foul. Sure, we would have turned it over a few times and/or committed some offensive fouls, but we'd also have gotten a few more of them in foul trouble and forced them to relax their aggression. Instead, what I saw was that we tentatively moved the ball around the perimeter until about 9-10 seconds left on the shot clock and then tried to drive. I don't think a ref is as apt to bail you out with a foul call in that situation and you've limited your options to drive and pass if you hit a defensive wall. I'm not sure why the team seemed so tentative, but it even led to us passing up a few open 3s late in the game that we normally take (and make).

All in all, I'm disappointed this morning for the team, especially the upperclassmen, but I'm very proud of their accomplishments this year.

Spot on. we failed to adjust our offense. they did. We couldn't play defense to suit how the game was being called, they could.

65 points is more than just refs.

[SkyBrickey]

I was at the arena last night. It was every bit as hostile as a high-intensity ACC road game. 90% of the crowd was cheering hard against Duke. The USC squad fed off the crowd for 40 minutes, especially on defense. And the refs did let the game get physical (I didn't think it was biased but it was unevenly called). Yes, you have to win that game to be deserving of a national championship, but it was a very unfortunate second round draw.

[howardlander]

Would't be surprised if Luke has a broken nose or some kind of damage from the Friday hit.

Looked like he maybe had the flu or whatever Bolden had to me. He wasn't playing with any energy.

[TampaDuke]

Spot on. we failed to adjust our offense. they did. We couldn't play defense to suit how the game was being called, they could.

Somewhat reminded me of what we did to Louisville in the ACC tourney.

Speaking of Louisville, I found Pitino's sobering comments after their loss to be apropos. I'm paraphrasing, but he basically said that, despite preaching about it all year, he found it challenging to get his players to realize that they have to commit to defense even when they're struggling offensively, particularly young players. I think that's true throughout college ball, but was also pointedly on display last night with Duke. I think part of our defense being so exploitable in the second half was due to our frustrations on the offensive end.

[bluenorth]

No question that it was a very disappointing night. SC dictated the style of play, and the referees allowed it (it will be interesting to see if any of those three get assignments in the Sweet 16). But I think that the players will have learned much more from this season than from a "normal" year. It was a crash course in how to deal with adversity. We are lucky to have such a great program and a great staff, with the result that expectations are so high every year.

Watching Jefferson, Jones, and Allen in particular last night the value of experience (ie. juniors and seniors) was apparent. Amile especially was just a warrior from the opening tap. I'm hoping that some of the younger players can appreciate this and stick around to fill those roles in the next couple of years.

[uh_no]

Somewhat reminded me of what we did to Louisville in the ACC tourney.

Speaking of Louisville, I found Pitino's sobering comments after their loss to be apropos. I'm paraphrasing, but he basically said that, despite preaching about it all year, he found it challenging to get his players to realize that they have to commit to defense even when they're struggling offensively, particularly young players. I think that's true throughout college ball, but was also pointedly on display last night with Duke. I think part of our defense being so exploitable in the second half was due to our frustrations on the offensive end.

absolutely.

for the record, our adjusted D in the second half was ~145 (155 raw). The worst defense in the country has an adjusted D of 122. Alabama A&M would only be expected to give up 55 points in that second half.

[cbarry]

Looked like he maybe had the flu or whatever Bolden had to me. He wasn't playing with any energy.

I can think of no other explanation for his play. I'm quite certain Luke was ill last night. (& not in a good way)

[freshmanjs]

I can think of no other explanation for his play. I'm quite certain Luke was ill last night. (& not in a good way)

Every year, like clockwork, when we lose in the NCAA tournament, several posters say the team must have been sick...

[howardlander]

Every year, like clockwork, when we lose in the NCAA tournament, several posters say the team must have been sick...

Well maybe. I can't say I remember that. But I live in Durham and I'm just getting over the flu. Kennard looked like how I feel. And Bolden was sick, so it's not hard to believe at least one other person on the team was sick. My wife and I said when we heard about Bolden that all the Duke players getting sick and losing to South Carolina was an appropriate way for the season to end.

Howard

[DBGoins]

What adjustment would you have made? Wasn't this basically just a case of elite defensive pressure (plus reffing that allowed contact, if one wants to go there) meeting the lack of point guard?

Props to those who were worried about SC. You were right.

Still, I'm very happy with the ACC championship and beating UNC twice. I hope for better health next season.



When we've had OADs and health, it's gone pretty well... If I were going to criticize recruiting, it would be not getting enough point guards.

Putting on my spoiled hat for a second. I'm a fan of supposedly one of the top two recruiting programs in the country, and yet I feel like I hardly ever get to root for an excellent point guard.



That's nuts, imo. Put Kyrie or Tyus out there or, ahem, Trevon Duval, and Duke is up 20 at halftime. And the game is completely different.

Troublemaker I can't agree with you more, the way to stop the pressure defense is to have a PG that can break them down off the dribble. I was hoping Jackson would be that kid for us last night but wasn't up for the task. He will be better next year and if we can get a true PG we will be lights out in the backcourt.

Good PG make great college team, you have to have one to plain and simple.

Also I wish we would have started full court pressure a bit earlier in the second half. I know we were trying to keep out of foul trouble but I believe we could have got some easy points off turnovers which would have helped not going up against that defense every time down the court...

Lastly Thank you to the seniors and the players that will not be returning. Good luck with the rest of your lives and wish them the best....

[bluenorth]

Troublemaker I can't agree with you more, the way to stop the pressure defense is to have a PG that can break them down off the dribble. I was hoping Jackson would be that kid for us last night but wasn't up for the task. He will be better next year and if we can get a true PG we will be lights out in the backcourt.

Good PG make great college team, you have to have one to plain and simple.

Also I wish we would have started full court pressure a bit earlier in the second half. I know we were trying to keep out of foul trouble but I believe we could have got some easy points off turnovers which would have helped not going up against that defense every time down the court...

Lastly Thank you to the seniors and the players that will not be returning. Good luck with the rest of your lives and wish them the best...

I wonder if somewhere Derryck Thornton was watching the game and wondering "what if..."

[DukeFanSince1990]

Man this loss hurt more than any other I can remember. Couldn't sleep last night. I REALLY hope we get Duval. Going to walk around outside now. Go Butler.

[dukebluesincebirth]

A fitting end to a roller coaster ride of a season. I'm exhausted from following this team. Exciting, then disappointing. Hopeless, then hopeful. Injuries, distractions, possible chemistry issues followed by big wins and gritty togetherness. Then it all ends with us kind of getting squeezed into what felt like a trap game in many ways. I won't blame the refs for a loss. This particular crew let them play a more physical game and it benefited SC. It happens in every sport and can work for or against your team.

Reflecting on it now, I think the length of recovery time needed for Harry Giles cost us a legit shot at the championship. It's obviously no one's fault, just what happened. If Harry doesn't tear the 2nd ACL and have the scope right before the season, we have a dominant post player alongside Amile. Harry would've played far more minutes and would have developed into a stud by March. When I saw Harry come out for his first appearance of the season, I adjusted my expectations a little. He looked sooo far away that it was obvious he wouldn't be the old Harry anytime soon. I believe I heard Coach K say last week that Harry is STILL at least a year away. It's very frustrating in the same way as the Kyrie season to me...a major injury to a dynamic, game-changing superstar 1-and-done player prevents us from reaching our full potential (which would've been winning the title IMO). Even if the rest of the season had gone exactly the same way, I think a healthy Giles in March wins us the championship. Maybe we'll have a year with our best players healthy in March at some point in the future.

[FerryFor50]

I wonder if somewhere Derryck Thornton was watching the game and wondering "what if..."

I don't get this infatuation with Thornton.

Has revisionist history really set in this much?

Thornton was an ok player, but he was smaller and weaker than Frank. He made similarly bad decisions with the ball, but wasn't anywhere near the scorer that Frank was. Even a sophomore Thornton might not have been better than Frank was this season. Defensively, Thornton was decent, but I think we're simply remembering his one awesome block against UNC and stating that he was some elite ball stopper. He wasn't; he was foul prone at times and had a very similar defensive efficiency rating as Frank.

Across the board, Thornton's offensive numbers were WAY below Frank's.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/derryck-thornton-1.html
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/frank-jackson-2.html

DT was 39% from the field and had issues finishing at the rim; Frank shot 45.5% from the field and was a very good finisher.

DT shot 69% from the FT line. FJ shot 75.5%.

DT shot 33% from 3; Frank shot 39%.

DT's true shooting % was 47.5%. FJ's was nearly 60%.

DT had an offensive rating of 97.9. FJ was at 118.9.

DT averaged 2.5 APG and 1.6 turnovers and had a turnover rate of 17.8%. FJ averaged 1.7 apg and 1.4 turnovers, but had a much lower 12.9% turnover rate.

Plus, FJ didn't have the baggage of an overbearing family demanding he got more playing time.

On nearly all fronts, FJ was a better option than DT. DT was never really a true PG. He was an undersized combo guard.

[cruxer]

I live 1/2 mile from Bon Secours and I hope Duke never has to play there again. 1-2 in the last 2 years with both losses to local teams whose fans (including my stepdaughter who goes to SC but couldn't care less about sports usually) will be in my ear until we beat them again. In the case of SC that will probably be in 40 years when we play them again, by which time my liver will have mercifully given up the ghost from all of my abuse.

-c

[Duke76]

I feel like if I threw on shoes, I could run a marathon with all the pent up energy inside.

I was there and your are 100% correct. NCAA committee was not thinking that through....a 7 seed gets that home court advantage is clearly not correct...they could have gone anywhere....

[Duke76]

I was there and your are 100% correct. NCAA committee was not thinking that through...a 7 seed gets that home court advantage is clearly not correct...they could have gone anywhere...

just listened to Coach K's presser...said it was the most physical game we've played all year, he said this a number of times....they adapted to the physical way it was being called and we weren't as good as they were at adapting to the physical play

[cruxer]

just listened to Coach K's presser...said it was the most physical game we've played all year, he said this a number of times...they adapted to the physical way it was being called and we weren't as good as they were at adapting to the physical play

That has been a hallmark of many of our NCAA losses. If a Big East game breaks out, we need to be able to adjust to it. If we don't, we lose. That said, we scored 81 points. Allowing 88 points was a huge problem. Going in I thought if we can score we can win. Boy was I wrong.

-c

[azzefkram]

I don't get this infatuation with Thornton.

I pretty much agree with everything you wrote but I do think you are glossing over 2 fairly important points. Derryck missed a summer with the team. That probably had an impact on his season. Derryck also would have been a sophomore. I think there is a reasonably good possibility that sophomore Derryck would be better than freshman Derryck. Also, he may not have been a lockdown defender but he was above average. Having another above average defender wouldn't hurt.

That being said, Derryck would have been more of a want/wish than a need.

[uh_no]

I've seen a lot of posts which I think are underselling exactly how bad our defense was last night, saying we had to play that way because of refs, or whatever other reason. Let me provide some examples that show just how bad the defense was.

We could have made a wall around the charge circle and just stood there with our hands up and forced them to take 10' jumpers all game. Suppose they hit 78% of them. That's a 155 defensive efficiency.

We could have completely laid off the three point line and let them shoot wide open threes all game. Suppose they hit 52% of them. That's a 155 defensive efficiency.

a 155 is effectively equivalent to playing absolutely no defense.

If the worst defensive team in the country (alabama a&m) played the best offensive team in the country (oklahoma state), they'd be expected to give up less than a 155.

I saw questions about what we were supposed to do. Well there are two suggestions. Here are more:

1)put in vrank to eat fouls and rough them up. We weren't defending or scoring and were still fouling, so why not let him eat fouls? We probably would have still scored alright and likely would have given up less than a 155
2)slow the game way down. The game was played on the quicker side, especially in the second half (which was an insane 84). If you're worried about foul trouble, limit possessions!
3) press. We started to do this later in the game, but even a simple guy in the backcourt mildly impeding the ball handler would have slowed the game down a bit
4) go twin towers. did we do that at all last night? have them stay at home and defend the rim. let them shoot mid range shots, and tell the guards to lay off. would have done better than a 155.....

I don't know who of you have dead harry potter and the methods of rationality, but there's a fantastic quote about why when things are going wrong it never occurs to try something different. There are many things we could have done, and many times we could have done them. Maybe it was when they got the lead down to 1 by the 16 minutes timeout. Maybe it was when they kept extending the lead after that timeout. Maybe it was when they pushed the lead to 9 (after which they still scored 26 points in the last 7 minutes). Maybe some of the above suggestions aren't perfect. Maybe we didn't practice them. It doesn't matter, though. 155 is SUCH a low bar that almost anything would have been better. K got out coached last night.


Aside from that, I'm not sure I've ever seen a team who:
a) lets calls against them affect their play so much on the floor. This came mostly from jefferson and I think rubbed off on the rest of the team. You want to see that rage translate better play on the court. This team channeled that rage into jawing at the refs and not getting back on defense. Right attitude: we'll we're playing against the refs too...gotta play that much better. let's go! Wrong attitude: we'll I guess the refs are against us. Throw my hands up, woe is me. I know which I saw last night. This has been an issue all year long.

b) letting production on offense sway defensive effort. This team was at its best when they were playing well on offense. This often channeled to very good defense, and not just because it allowed us to "set up the D." You could see it in the ACCT...when we started getting buckets, we clamped down. This allowed us to make some of those comebacks. This ended up being a major issue when we ran into a top defense. We actually had a pretty decent offensive night. We did a 110. The only team to have a better offensive night against them ALL YEAR was kentucky. You honestly couldn't have hoped for us to score more overall. Yeah a few more buckets would have been nice in the first half, but really, it was a good night. But anyway, because we weren't putting up the big numbers we usually do, and we weren't banging in threes in the second half every possession, it seems like we throw in the towel on defense. This causes what would be a single missed bucket to turn into a two bucket swing. Consistent effort on D has been a major problem all year long.

Anyway, I'm not sure I have much else to say about this team. It was a perfect storm of injuries, inexperience, intermittent character issues, and unfortunately, a now typical duke matador defense. I think it will go down as one of the biggest "what could have been" teams in a long while.

We will sorely miss amile next year, and if people haven't already, they'll realize exactly how important matt was to this team. If this is truly the end for kennard and allen, best of luck, it was quite the ride. I wish those that leave for the draft the best of luck. There are some bright careers there. I hope those coming back use this as motivation for next year like the guys did three years ago vs mercer.

Thanks for the ride. I'm sad it's over.

[Duke76]

I was at the arena last night. It was every bit as hostile as a high-intensity ACC road game. 90% of the crowd was cheering hard against Duke. The USC squad fed off the crowd for 40 minutes, especially on defense. And the refs did let the game get physical (I didn't think it was biased but it was unevenly called). Yes, you have to win that game to be deserving of a national championship, but it was a very unfortunate second round draw.

I'd really like to have a discussion of why every friggin year the refs start out calling all these freedom of movements calls and then when you get to the tournament is 180 degrees away from that....as K said "it was the most physical game they played in all year" and he said it a number of times

[FerryFor50]

I pretty much agree with everything you wrote but I do think you are glossing over 2 fairly important points. Derryck missed a summer with the team. That probably had an impact on his season. Derryck also would have been a sophomore. I think there is a reasonably good possibility that sophomore Derryck would be better than freshman Derryck. Also, he may not have been a lockdown defender but he was above average. Having another above average defender wouldn't hurt.

That being said, Derryck would have been more of a want/wish than a need.

Yea but if he stays, do we get Frank?

Agree about the points of him missing the summer, but there's a lot of glossing over his faults going on in retrospect.

[CDu]

Yea but if he stays, do we get Frank?

Agree about the points of him missing the summer, but there's a lot of glossing over his faults going on in retrospect.

Jackson committed LONG before Thornton transferred. And the two didn't play completely competing roles. So I don't think it was a one or the other situation.

I do agree with you that folks have overstated Thornton's performance. In theory, he could have filled a need as a perimeter defender and PG. In practice, he'd not yet shown that he would have made a major impact with either of those attributes.

One obvious way he'd have helped would have been extra perimeter depth. We might not have suffered as many losses in January and February when Allen was hurt/suspended. And that might have given us a better seed in the NCAA tournament, which might have helped us on Sunday. But in terms of specific on-court role contributions, I think it's hazy as to what he'd have provided.

[FerryFor50]

Jackson committed LONG before Thornton transferred. And the two didn't play completely competing roles. So I don't think it was a one or the other situation.

Right, but my understanding was that DT was pretty much a given to transfer by as early as mid-season.

[ChillinDuke]

Blaming referees for one or two close calls in critical moments is for losers. Being frustrated with refs who consistently fail to enforce the rules for the entire game is another story. There's been a lot of talk about lack of adjustments but what adjustments do you make to being manhandled? If a team overplays passing lanes you use back door cuts, if they switch everything you screen until you get a favorable match up you can exploit. I honestly don't know what you're supposed to tell guys who can't run, pass, or dribble without being pushed, grabbed, shoved, or held. I mean there's a reason those things are against the rules - they make it very difficult to play basketball. I'd love if some of our great basketball minds could weigh in here because "you have to adjust" just sounds like an empty cliche.

It absolutely is an empty cliche. But if you blame the refs, you get labeled a twerper, and no one wants that.

So publicly, you have to say, "You have to adjust." While privately, I (and probably a few others) think yesterday was a bizarre instance of officiating. I don't think it tells the whole story. But I absolutely believe it was a not insignificant piece of the story. And when Coach K says, "That was the most physical game we've been in all year," that is his way of not being labeled a twerper while simultaneously admitting that we were getting hammered all game.

- Chillin

[duke09hms]

I've seen a lot of posts which I think are underselling exactly how bad our defense was last night, saying we had to play that way because of refs, or whatever other reason. Let me provide some examples that show just how bad the defense was.

We could have made a wall around the charge circle and just stood there with our hands up and forced them to take 10' jumpers all game. Suppose they hit 78% of them. That's a 155 defensive efficiency.

We could have completely laid off the three point line and let them shoot wide open threes all game. Suppose they hit 52% of them. That's a 155 defensive efficiency.

a 155 is effectively equivalent to playing absolutely no defense.

If the worst defensive team in the country (alabama a&m) played the best offensive team in the country (oklahoma state), they'd be expected to give up less than a 155.

I saw questions about what we were supposed to do. Well there are two suggestions. Here are more:

1)put in vrank to eat fouls and rough them up. We weren't defending or scoring and were still fouling, so why not let him eat fouls? We probably would have still scored alright and likely would have given up less than a 155
2)slow the game way down. The game was played on the quicker side, especially in the second half (which was an insane 84). If you're worried about foul trouble, limit possessions!
3) press. We started to do this later in the game, but even a simple guy in the backcourt mildly impeding the ball handler would have slowed the game down a bit
4) go twin towers. did we do that at all last night? have them stay at home and defend the rim. let them shoot mid range shots, and tell the guards to lay off. would have done better than a 155....

I don't know who of you have dead harry potter and the methods of rationality, but there's a fantastic quote about why when things are going wrong it never occurs to try something different. There are many things we could have done, and many times we could have done them. Maybe it was when they got the lead down to 1 by the 16 minutes timeout. Maybe it was when they kept extending the lead after that timeout. Maybe it was when they pushed the lead to 9 (after which they still scored 26 points in the last 7 minutes). Maybe some of the above suggestions aren't perfect. Maybe we didn't practice them. It doesn't matter, though. 155 is SUCH a low bar that almost anything would have been better. K got out coached last night.


Aside from that, I'm not sure I've ever seen a team who:
a) lets calls against them affect their play so much on the floor. This came mostly from jefferson and I think rubbed off on the rest of the team. You want to see that rage translate better play on the court. This team channeled that rage into jawing at the refs and not getting back on defense. Right attitude: we'll we're playing against the refs too...gotta play that much better. let's go! Wrong attitude: we'll I guess the refs are against us. Throw my hands up, woe is me. I know which I saw last night. This has been an issue all year long.

b) letting production on offense sway defensive effort. This team was at its best when they were playing well on offense. This often channeled to very good defense, and not just because it allowed us to "set up the D." You could see it in the ACCT...when we started getting buckets, we clamped down. This allowed us to make some of those comebacks. This ended up being a major issue when we ran into a top defense. We actually had a pretty decent offensive night. We did a 110. The only team to have a better offensive night against them ALL YEAR was kentucky. You honestly couldn't have hoped for us to score more overall. Yeah a few more buckets would have been nice in the first half, but really, it was a good night. But anyway, because we weren't putting up the big numbers we usually do, and we weren't banging in threes in the second half every possession, it seems like we throw in the towel on defense. This causes what would be a single missed bucket to turn into a two bucket swing. Consistent effort on D has been a major problem all year long.

Anyway, I'm not sure I have much else to say about this team. It was a perfect storm of injuries, inexperience, intermittent character issues, and unfortunately, a now typical duke matador defense. I think it will go down as one of the biggest "what could have been" teams in a long while.

We will sorely miss amile next year, and if people haven't already, they'll realize exactly how important matt was to this team. If this is truly the end for kennard and allen, best of luck, it was quite the ride. I wish those that leave for the draft the best of luck. There are some bright careers there. I hope those coming back use this as motivation for next year like the guys did three years ago vs mercer.

Thanks for the ride. I'm sad it's over.

Great analysis. Had no idea a 155 defensive efficiency over an entire half was that bad. I do remember at one point they were 9/10 FG in the 2nd half with some FTs thrown in there.

How did you arrive at your #s equating our performance to 78% shooting 10-footers all 2nd half?

Even the GOAT makes mistakes eh?

[uh_no]

Great analysis. Had no idea a 155 defensive efficiency over an entire half was that bad. I do remember at one point they were 9/10 FG in the 2nd half with some FTs thrown in there.

How did you arrive at your #s equating our performance to 78% shooting 10-footers all 2nd half?

Even the GOAT makes mistakes eh?

78% on 2's is 1.56 points per possession. 2*.78

[CDu]

Right, but my understanding was that DT was pretty much a given to transfer by as early as mid-season.

Jackson committed in September. Long before the season started. Heck, Thornton was barely on campus by the time Jackson committed.

[kmspeaks]

It absolutely is an empty cliche. But if you blame the refs, you get labeled a twerper, and no one wants that.

So publicly, you have to say, "You have to adjust." While privately, I (and probably a few others) think yesterday was a bizarre instance of officiating. I don't think it tells the whole story. But I absolutely believe it was a not insignificant piece of the story. And when Coach K says, "That was the most physical game we've been in all year," that is his way of not being labeled a twerper while simultaneously admitting that we were getting hammered all game.

- Chillin

I totally agree that's the most K, or any member of the program can do publicly. I guess I just don't understand everyone here who is frustrated we were unable to adjust because I don't know what adjustment there was to be made. Tatum got called for an offensive foul for trying to get his arms free from a defender off the ball so it's not like the answer was just to match their physicality.

[uh_no]

I guess I just don't understand everyone here who is frustrated we were unable to adjust because I don't know what adjustment there was to be made

I gave some suggestions above.

[Atlanta Duke]

NCAA committee was not thinking that through...a 7 seed gets that home court advantage is clearly not correct...they could have gone anywhere...

Apparently the NCAA did think it through.

The four #7 seeds, ranked from highest to lowest, were as follows:

St. Mary's (Calif.)
South Carolina
Michigan
Dayton

http://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2017-03-12/march-madness-bracket-every-seed-ranked-68-1

The NCAA explained how it decided where those #7 seeds were sent

“The committee has a bracketing principle that prevents teams seeded on the first four lines from playing in a potential home-court disadvantage in the first round,” [NCAA director of media coordination] Worlock said in a statement provided to USA TODAY Sports. “They do not project matchups after the first round...

“When the committee got to the 7, the choices were Indy, Indy, Salt Lake and Greenville (because of where the two seeds were sent). St. Mary's was the highest-seeded team among the four No. 7 seeds, so they went to Salt Lake since it's the closest site. South Carolina was next so they were assigned to Greenville, and then Michigan and Dayton took the two Indianapolis slots.”

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2017/03/18/march-madness-no-2-seed-duke-road-game-south-carolina/99354904/

I was unaware the pod system practice getting to play at the site closest to your campus extends to #7 seeds, but it looks like it does.

FWIW playing Michigan or Wichita State (or if Wisconsin had been underseeded as a #7 seed rather than underseeded as a #8 seed) in Greenville would have been no bargain either - but the hostile crowd of course was a negative factor for Duke.

[duke09hms]

78% on 2's is 1.56 points per possession. 2*.78

lol ok, thought there was some shot map that plotted expected pts / shot taken at the location.

Seems like K is open to switching strategies (2-3 zone) but not changing up personnel.

[uh_no]

lol ok, thought there was some shot map that plotted expected pts / shot taken at the location.

Seems like K is open to switching strategies (2-3 zone) but not changing up personnel.

At the time, it was a reasonable change, I think. Zone has worked alright for stretches in big games. We play it well enough to throw the opponent for a loop when we switch, but I don't think we run it well enough to shut teams down for the kind of stretches that we played it last night (and last night was pretty convincing evidence of that).

When it became apparent the zone wasn't going to hold up, we needed to do continue to adapt. It might have been personnel, or scheme, but it needed to be something. Heck, I think throwing out a junk box-and-1 would have probably been more effective.

[FerryFor50]

It absolutely is an empty cliche. But if you blame the refs, you get labeled a twerper, and no one wants that.

So publicly, you have to say, "You have to adjust." While privately, I (and probably a few others) think yesterday was a bizarre instance of officiating. I don't think it tells the whole story. But I absolutely believe it was a not insignificant piece of the story. And when Coach K says, "That was the most physical game we've been in all year," that is his way of not being labeled a twerper while simultaneously admitting that we were getting hammered all game.

- Chillin

Completely agree.

What made this game even harder to swallow was watching UNC get the benefit of several game changing calls the game before, as well as getting sent to the FT line 25 times to Arkansas' 8.

[dyedwab]

b) letting production on offense sway defensive effort. This team was at its best when they were playing well on offense. This often channeled to very good defense, and not just because it allowed us to "set up the D." You could see it in the ACCT...when we started getting buckets, we clamped down. This allowed us to make some of those comebacks. This ended up being a major issue when we ran into a top defense. We actually had a pretty decent offensive night. We did a 110. The only team to have a better offensive night against them ALL YEAR was kentucky. You honestly couldn't have hoped for us to score more overall. Yeah a few more buckets would have been nice in the first half, but really, it was a good night. But anyway, because we weren't putting up the big numbers we usually do, and we weren't banging in threes in the second half every possession, it seems like we throw in the towel on defense. This causes what would be a single missed bucket to turn into a two bucket swing. Consistent effort on D has been a major problem all year long.


This point is something I want to emphasize. All year, this team needed to see it's shots fall in order to put forth the defensive effort necessary. This actually seems to have been true for a number of recent Duke teams, but this year is was more important, because the team committed so many unforced errors on both ends of the floor.

I'm not sure if there's a fix for this, but the bad/matador defense, and the defensive effort being effected by offensive production has been a trend in the program for a while, and leads to, well, games like last night.

[Rich]

It absolutely is an empty cliche. But if you blame the refs, you get labeled a twerper, and no one wants that.

So publicly, you have to say, "You have to adjust." While privately, I (and probably a few others) think yesterday was a bizarre instance of officiating. I don't think it tells the whole story. But I absolutely believe it was a not insignificant piece of the story. And when Coach K says, "That was the most physical game we've been in all year," that is his way of not being labeled a twerper while simultaneously admitting that we were getting hammered all game.

- Chillin

I made a similar comment up thread last night. Coach K repeated that sentiment 4 times over the course of one his shorter press conferences.

[Kfanarmy]

Most of the USC players come from a 200 mile radius of Columbia. They were not great defensive players when they enrolled. They were COACHED that way.
Maybe there is more to basketball than flipping threes and McDonalds. Thanks to Amile and Matt.

They weren't great defensive players last night either..held Duke to its average...They are a frenetic team that relies on officials unwillingness to take over the game. Two steps above WV, but a fouling machine. The bumping and a 1000 uncalled reach ins, are what cause most of the turnovers.

As an aside the 1st weekend of the tournament was called this way, and is the principle reason for the number of upsets and close games IMO. Congrats to the NCAA.

[IFUSTABMEDOINOTBLEEDBLUE]

Our defense flat out stunk this year. Very inconsistent. Big man development was heinous even with the " guys were hurt during early part of season" mantra I am not going to use as an excuse. I feel bad for Jefferson and Jones...maybe the answer is to have these defensive minded seniors and juniors in more abundance along with some one and dones...and no true point guards was a big mistake. We did have an incredible ACC tournament though so that was nice. Will miss Tatum as he was excellent and is a true NBA talent for sure...if anyone else jumps its as a 7th or 8th man ala journeyman who gets paid nicely but is to go down as largely forgettable in the NBA. Giles...some team will Embilid this guy and hope in a few years he might be worth what he takes moneywise initially but he is still largely a big unknown who has no speed in his game at all but drips with possibilities for NBA scouts. Stats are nice and lots of those are used to buttress any position really on this season or player in particular. But this year started with a lot of promise and ended again with Duke losing and losing to a largely weak squad from South Carolina. Its not like we had not seen teams play that way aka Virginia and not win. I miss the days of largely upperclassmen with a one and doner mixed in. This year was largely hype with really only Tatum bringing his game to the next level save for Kennard who I hope stays..he is special. At least Len Elmore will be done with his anti Duke bias so I have that going for me...which is nice. I applaud the team and its effort this year but do get tired to losing in the big dance to teams whose season is made simply by beating us.

[Buckeye Devil]

I wasn't worried about this game but was thinking more about Baylor. Maybe that was somewhat in Duke's head as well. Combine that with bad officiating, bad defense and a hostile environment and there you have it.

[Duke76]

Completely agree.

What made this game even harder to swallow was watching UNC get the benefit of several game changing calls the game before, as well as getting sent to the FT line 25 times to Arkansas' 8.

yea, like the most obvious one when UNC was down 5 with a couple minutes to go and Berry barrels into the guy right in front of one of the refs....and there is no call....that was unreal....he clearly charged and this walked and threw the ball up towards the basket and Meeks somehow finds it and tips it in

that was a egregious no call I have ever seen, that i can remember

[Duke76]

They weren't great defensive players last night either..held Duke to its average...They are a frenetic team that relies on officials unwillingness to take over the game. Two steps above WV, but a fouling machine. The bumping and a 1000 uncalled reach ins, are what cause most of the turnovers.

As an aside the 1st weekend of the tournament was called this way, and is the principle reason for the number of upsets and close games IMO. Congrats to the NCAA.

its a travesty that needs to be resolved....you make the guys play one way all regular season long and then revert to "letting them play" in the tournament, doesn't seem logical to me, surely its not as you suggest?

[NashvilleDevil]

its a travesty that needs to be resolved...you make the guys play one way all regular season long and then revert to "letting them play" in the tournament, doesn't seem logical to me, surely its not as you suggest?

I look forward to the NCAA making a statement that they will be enforcing freedom of movement for next year and then, as people have said, by the tournament they will allow football to be played on a basketball court.

[Rich]

its a travesty that needs to be resolved...you make the guys play one way all regular season long and then revert to "letting them play" in the tournament, doesn't seem logical to me, surely its not as you suggest?

I don't watch many games outside of the ACC so maybe this is how the officiating is in other conferences. Clearly the ACC officials called a tighter game during the season. Might be one reason (but not the only one) why so many ACC teams are out at this point.

[devildeac]

I don't watch many games outside of the ACC so maybe this is how the officiating is in other conferences. Clearly the ACC officials called a tighter game during the season. Might be one reason (but not the only one) why so many ACC teams are out at this point.

How does that explain Looville's exit then, given their style of ummm, defense?

[Buckeye Devil]

I know the ACC has a reputation for tighter calls in comparison to the B1G for example. I'm not a huge fan of either extreme. As a huge Duke fan, I still find the ACC to be a bit soft. But I don't care to see football on the hardwood either. I think finding a happy medium is very tough to say the least and what I have observed is the pendulum swinging one way or the other.

[Award89]

This was a crazy year that didn't live up to its sky-high pre-season potential but still had some great storylines. Amile the warrior, throwing those long arms around in wild windmills to whip up the team and the fans. Grayson living under a microscope and growing better for it. Luke with his sad eyes and hair tic, making those driveway HORSE shots, the most unlikely assassin we've ever had. A brilliant run to the ACC championship. We can all share those memories.

But for me personally, I'll always remember one shining moment: the Friday night of the Big Ten tournament.

Yes, the Big Ten tournament. Didn't realize it would also be the night of Duke-UNC in the ACC tournament until too late, but I was committed to taking my dad to see his beloved Terrapins play their opening game against Northwestern. Delayed leaving for the game until halftime of Duke-UNC. Looked pretty bad at that point. Checked the score again on the way into the Verizon Center. Something like 12 down and 12 minutes to go. Still not good. At least I wouldn't have to watch our guys lose to the baby blues. Just got to our seats right in front of the Maryland section, when up pops a text from the missus: "Tied at 63 with 10 minutes to go." What?!?! More texts: "We're leading." "We're up by 7." "Suddenly on fire." Pulled up the game on my phone, and I'll be dmn'd if it wasn't true. The Maryland game is about to tip off, and the students finish their pre-game laryngitis contest with a deafening round of "F--k Duke! F--k Duke! F--k Duke!" Good to know we're still remembered so fondly. A few minutes later, Duke polishes off the Heels. The score comes up on the Jumbotron to a chorus of boos and groans. And about that time, Maryland begins its long, slow fold to Collins and his cool Cats. Priceless.

[Mabdul Doobakus]

I give the committee a bit of a pass as far as the perceived home court advantage South Carolina enjoyed last night.

The game was not literally a home game for SC. It was played in a separate city, about 1.5 hours from SC's campus. It was only 3.5 hours from Durham. The committee can't be held to the standard that every game is played where the lower seed has to travel less than the higher seed. Greenville was easily reachable from Durham. Let's be honest about this...most of the Duke fans who planned to travel for the tournament probably had their sights set on New York, and maybe Phoenix. Who wants to go to Greenville, when you can save yourself the money and the hassle and go to New York? But for SC fans who wanted to watch their team play, they didn't have any expectation of tournament life beyond Greenville.

I also give the refs a pass. I can't remember ever losing a tournament game where there wasn't griping on here about the refs. And every time the people who gripe about the refs say some version of the same thing...they always say "this time it's different". They say that all those other times we griped about the refs that was to be expected from fans as part of losing, but that this time the complaints are legit, that the refs REALLY hosed us THIS time. Every part of this is predictable, just as it's predictable that people complain that UNC got all the calls. So, it's hard to take any of it seriously...for all of you who feel that this one time we truly got hosed by the refs, I promise you there would be people here complaining about the refs whether we truly got hosed or not. Personally, I didn't find anything egregious about the way the game was called. We were atrocious on defense and we're lucky SC couldn't hit an open shot in the first half, because we should have lost by more.

[A-Tex Devil]

I look forward to the NCAA making a statement that they will be enforcing freedom of movement for next year and then, as people have said, by the tournament they will allow football to be played on a basketball court.

I would love a new point of emphasis that if a player keeps his vertical plane (even if he leaves his feet), it's not a foul if the offensive player jumps into him. I don't think the refs could change their whistle-blowing tendencies on that type of play (it's easier to ask them to blow the whistle against instinct than to not), but Amile (I think) got nailed with one of those last night at an inopportune time.

[BandAlum83]

This isn't the '99, '01, '02, '11, or '15 team. I leave '10 off because that was maybe K's best coaching job (inferior team to the others). On those teams, we could do what we do best regardless of what the other teams strength was. This team was flawed in a way that played right in to South Carolina's hands. We should have known it coming in. They are going to deny our threes, create TOs and hit offensive rebounds. But we went right into the lion's den anyway with our game plan. The 5 point lead was fool's gold in the first half. SC wasn't going to keep shooting like that in the second half, and what made it worse, our defense allowed layup after layup and wide open 3 after wide open 3 all game. SC just missed them in the first half.

We needed a different game plan. Or at the very least a half time adjustment. Like I said in the game thread, SC's defense is MEANT to be adjusted for in the second half. They are going to get boat raced by Baylor, or either Wiscy or Florida. Mark my words.

I'm sorry. What does that mean? I've never heard that expression.

Is it regional in nature?

[BandAlum83]

We got like three gift blocking calls, and Luke got away with a shove. The refs were bad, but it was both ways. And they shot 70% in the second half and we had 14 (I think) TOs in the first half when we had a chance to boat race them. This was a well deserved L.

Hah! There it is again. :)

[BandAlum83]

Thanks to Amile & Matt for all the effort...dedication...the choosing to be part of something bigger than yourself.

It was a good but not quite as good a year as we hoped for. Still... a 20th ACC CHAMPIONSHIP & beat the CHEATS 2
of 3.

And let us not forget, Matt and Amile leave with rings as National Champions as well!

[BandAlum83]

Most of the USC players come from a 200 mile radius of Columbia. They were not great defensive players when they enrolled. They were COACHED that way.
Maybe there is more to basketball than flipping threes and McDonalds. Thanks to Amile and Matt.

You've been out here for a long time, and as a '64 grad, I will respect my elders and not flame you for this.

If you have a point to make, please make it with a reasoned discussion instead of a snide remark.

[BandAlum83]

I was worried from the start, but man Duke ran into an absolute buzz saw tonight. Even with a 7 point lead at halftime I had an awful feeling, because I knew there was no way South Carolina would be that cold again in the second half and we never showed we were capable of breaking their defense down. Kennard honestly looked sick tonight, he was a non factor. Besides Grayson no one consistently played well on offense, and when they started making shots we just couldn't stop them without fouling. I'll have to admit that K got outcoached tonight, there is no way you can deny that. I was thinking he would be able to adjust to their defense in the second half but he didn't. Frank martin coached an outstanding game that Duke wasn't ready for. Their length gave Duke so many fits on both offense and defense. Looking back on it, this will definitely be considered a really disappointing season. Glimpses of greatness but too many holes to become a powerhouse. Such a stacked roster that remained weak defensively and never could properly gel.

Here's to hoping Luke and Frank stay and we grab the commitments of Knox and Duval

How do screen names end up being connected to other active screen names when you go to their profile?

[BandAlum83]

Geez Loueez, a title won is a championship won. Another banner in Cameron, and not some fake Helms either. Why rationalize/de-rationalize an accomplishment? If you were around back then, go back and taste the early 80's. Now, THAT stunk. And we've been hanging banners ever since, including this year. And it didn't take fake classes to get us here.

You go, Pops! Well said!!!

[BandAlum83]

THIS> I posted as such about three times in the pre-game thread. No one seemed to listen... Please use this from now on as proof - NOT that I know anything. Rather as proof as to why I fear two things - EVERY OPPONENT.. and the refs in the NCAA tourney. We live on shooting and Free throws and refs in the tourney are notorious for calling less fouls than the ACC refs or any regular season refs.

They killed JJ one year in the NCAA (mugged him) and the refs wouldn't call it so we lost.

Still, congrats on a great D plan to USC - we couldnt' drive and kick and they used what the refs were giving, playing very physical w us

* Everyone remember this game next year in the NCAA tourney. Refs swallow the whistle in the NCAA tourney .. that's been shown before

The refs didn't put the ball through the hoop for 88 points, the SC players did that. Hats off to them for a (second game in a row) insane second half shooting performance.

And as much as it may seem that our offense disappeared, we did score 81 against a top 10 defensive team.

For me, the game came down to turnovers. Now some may say that's where the refs killed us. There could be claims that many of the turnovers were caused by fouls. But they still needed to make the shots, and they did when it mattered.

For the game, they shot what, 42%? That shouldn't be good enough to beat us. Turnovers did, and they took advantage by putting the ball in the basket. We simply gave them too many shots!

[BandAlum83]

That's just the thing, we may have more "talented" players, but we don't usually have the better teams. The total tend to end up being less than the sum of the parts, because in the end basketball is not 5 individual players doing their own thing.

How often do the best teams win?

Take a look at:

1983 - Was NC State really a better team than Houston's Phi Slamma Jamma?
1985 - Villanova better than G'Town?
1986 - Loisville better than that amazing Duke TEAM
1991 - Was Duke really a better team than UNLV?
1999 - UConn better than Duke?
2015 - Kentucky?

These are just Final 4 examples. The landscape in a 64 team single elimination tournament is littered with better teams losing. I'm fine with hanging banners, making the NCAAT every year and making more than our share of Final 4s and getting the big trophy.

I would think everyone one be fine with that. Especially those of us who root for Atlanta's professional sports teams ;)

[BandAlum83]

Coach K said the game was "physical" four times in his post game press conference. Not sure if this was a euphemism for the clutching and grabbing style played by SC because he was otherwise congratulatory, but I would think so. Must be frustrating to play in a conference all year with certain expectations as to what's going to be called a foul and then play a tourney game called so completely different.

I seem to recall the same types of things being said in the early 80's as the Big Ten and SEC seemed to dominate NCAA play with their bruising style of play. Until UNC and NCSU won back to back.

I guess the more things change, the more they stay the same.

[BandAlum83]

Officiating was god awful, but it's hard to beat 75% shooting and 65pts in a half. I said in chat w about 14min left in the game it just didn't feel like our night, ala Syracuse game. Also besides Amile, and im sure Matt we just seemed to lack intensity tonight. This is also the down side of the 4 in 4, that was only a week ago. guys were exhausted Marquese out, coach said several had a cold, and i think Luke was one. I hate JT and HG will declare,but i hope G and Luke come back. Although If so how are we going to distribute playing time between 4 and possibly a (crossing fingers) 5th guard in Duval next year? Tear Drops on my pillow tonight as i think this team SEVERELY under achieved but they got to hang a banner something that hadn't happened in 6 LONG years. Although the ultimate goal was not achieved & i thought the sweet 16 was the earliest this team would exit Duke has historically struggled against TALL LONG ATHLETIC teams, plus this was a true road game so shouldn't be to shocked. Lets take a few weeks to lick our wounds hope to see the cheats get bounced (misery loves company) and all come together for some Good Ol Duke Football.

Really? Based on where we were in a reality-based world in January, you think this team severely underachieved?

Understanding injuries, trying to integrate players into the rotation in the ACC season, losing Coach K for 5 weeks?

You think we severely underachieved? What was your expectation given the reality of the situation.

I think this team over-achieved, and I am proud of them!

[BandAlum83]

What a season. Hope some people here can take a more balanced view. Winning the ACC Tournament should not be undervalued.

The parts never came together even for two back to back halves. This team played in ten minute stretches, some amazing, some confounding.

I will argue until I'm kicked off this board that the point guard argument is a straw man argument. This team won a lot of games and had a lot of very good ball handlers. The difference is it truely never came together as a coherent, consistent offense that could play defense without fouling. That is it. I don't know why. Perhaps it's easy to blame the injuries. Perhaps K could have done things different.

But he is ALWAYS going after the best talent that fits the program. So the one and done argument is a waste of time (and should be).

I loved watching Tatum this year grow and become a great player. So glad he chose Duke. I really enjoyed watching Jackson find his way and work to blend in and I suspect he'll be a huge part of this team's success next year. So greatful for the toughness and leadership of Jefferson and Jones. Really glad Jone's shot delivered for him by the end of the year. Luke's growth has been great and I really appreciate the toughness Grayson showed in the late part of the year. We don't win the ACC without him. My heart goes out to Giles and Bolden. How hard of a year must this have been? How many broken dreams for things outside their control.

Tonight the officiating was very challenging. The home crowd should never have been an issue. But they were and this team's margin for error all year has been too tight for those challenges.

As an aside, the NCAA benefits from the Cinderella story and allowing less skilled teams to play more physically helps that narrative. Reminds me of the NHL of the 90s. Keep lower revenue team's competitive by allowing teams to be very physical. Same thing here.

Wow, a really interesting thought. It may be deserving of exploration, but is it a 'conspiracy theory'? Do you think the official are chosen and moved along if they have shown a propensity to allow for physical play, or do you think the point of emphasis change? If so, wouldn't we hear about it?

I'm not dismissing the thought as out of hand. Clearly something needs to be done. I have been thinking of a take on officiating as an off-season thread topic. Clearly something needs to be done. This is a multi-billion $ industry, and the lack off consistency between conferences and within games must be addressed.

[kako]

I've been in deep thought over the loss. So I’m writing this as my own personal catharsis. Feel free to disagree, but it's how I feel. Bear with me, it’s long.

I feared USC's defense prior to the game, and as soon as it started I could see those fears materializing. And though I don't think the officials took the game away from Duke (as opposed to many other games in the tourney), allowing the physical play wasn't going to help a finesse team like Duke (yes, I think we were a finesse team this year). Duke actually took care of the ball better in the 2nd half, but USC's defense continued to be relentless and took the team out of its game. But our own defense wasn't up to the task, and the Gamecocks really shot the lights out and their players really stepped up. It seems that often happens in Duke loses to "weaker" teams in the tourney (the one that I always look back to is the '93 loss to Cal. Someone mentioned LSU in '06, that's a good example as well). Seeing "DUKE" on our team's chests always gets the opposing team’s juices going. Add a little confidence, and we are in for a long night.

What would have helped?

• PG - no. I see people lamenting about losing Thornton. I think that's false. Though we could always use another ball handler, I could have seen anyone, even Hurley, get terrorized by USC's physical D yesterday. For the record, I could see Jackson becoming a great PG. He's proven he’s got stones, can slash inside and has a good outside shot (I’ll remember his game-tying FG against KU for some time). I hope he works on his ball-handling and passing – maybe some Steph Curry-like pregame ball-handling skills will help.
• Interior play - yes. Jefferson was a warrior yesterday. His heart and passion radiated throughout the game. And 6 blocks, wow! But that to me shows that better interior D and an offensive post-presence with height would have really helped. If Giles had been even half as-advertised, or if Bolden wasn’t sick… maybe? I think what this really means is getting a 3-4-year player, a 6-10+ guy that has some skills, learns D and can serviceably control the paint - be a presence. MP3 and Zoubek came along too late in their careers– nothing against them. But think Jefferson with a little more height, staying all 4 years. Yesterday if we had had another experienced low post offensive presence to both rebound and score, that would have made a difference. Height matters.
• The zone was a crutch that broke. I’ve said before that our 2-3 zone is nothing remarkable. It certainly didn’t help in the 2nd half yesterday. I think perhaps Duke should consider going back to the 80s and 90s of predominantly man-to-man. Only go zone to change up the look and confuse the enemy as a surprise. Teach man-to-man over and over, recruit those kind of players. Say what you want about the officiating. Allowing 65 points in a half is ridiculous, and there’s no way a team deserves to win doing that. I watched Ralph Sampson’s team score 109 points against Duke in '83 (the record for points in an ACC tourney game, as least to that point). That was embarrassing, but yesterday’s 2nd half was worse from a defensive perspective.
• A deeper bench. After a while, Duke just got tired from the physical play. K always seems to gravitate to a 7-man rotation. I’d love to see Duke work in an 8-9 man rotation on a regular basis. It would have helped in games like yesterday, where the team gets tired and the fouls pile up. Kennard – maybe he was sick, too, but he just seemed tired. And tired, frustrated players foul on defense, so Kennard fouled out.
• Playing in Greenville - not a good reason to lose. Duke lost to Lehigh in Greensboro, lost to Mercer in Raleigh. The crowds totally turned on Duke. The underdog is always going to garner support, and they will feed on it. This should be expected – we are Duke and most of the college basketball world hates us. If Duke can’t beat USC in Greenville, do you think they could beat better teams in Phoenix on the west coast? Gonzaga, UCLA, Oregon or Arizona? C’mon, man... That being said, if K would schedule more home-and-homes with top teams out of conference like he used to, that might help prepare the Devils. He’s definitely gone away from that, which is something I have never really understood. It’s so good for crowd experience in strange locations, and it gives Duke a recruiting advantage. But if you want to complain about Greenville, you guys in NC talk to your legislature to kill HB2. Games will be back in Raleigh, Charlotte or Greensboro before you can say “bathroom bill”.
• Semi Ojeleye – all the talk about Thornton… no, the talk should be “what if we had kept Ojeleye and given him the rock?” We could have used him yesterday. I don’t know if he would have ever stayed - I don’t know how hard the coaching staff tried.

But hat’s off to South Carolina. They played a good 1st half defending and great 2nd half at both ends, and they deserved to win. Sure, 65 points in a half (there are entire games they didn’t sore 65), 71% from the field, and 91% from the line (seriously? They usually shoot 70%)… all out of character for that team, but they stepped up and won the game. Duke didn’t fritter it away.

I’m morose over Duke losing so early… again. Lehigh. Mercer. And now South Carolina. Ugh. I do think it’s a risk teams take by bringing in so many blue-chip, 1-and-done freshmen, as there is so much less time to gel high school individuals into the Duke team concept. But today I’m telling myself that I’ll trade all of those losses for the 2015 championship. I’d really like to see another one this decade, though.

Looking towards next year:

- I assume Tatum, Allen and Giles are gone. Tatum is obvious. Allen should just go – all the (self-inflicted) crap he’s taken this year will just be worse next year. If he has a good showing for the pros, he should take the money and go. I’ll always be thankful for the Wisconsin game. Giles should also go – though I’d love him to stay to see if he progresses, he risks way too much to stay and “prove himself”. You can’t get much better than being a first round NBA draft pick, and the downside is far worse for him. Maybe don’t hire an agent, but still his plan should be to leave. The NBA drafts on potential, and he's already shown that in high school.
- Kennard? Again, if he can go first round, then he should go. I’m not sure of his pro prospects, though. He’s fast enough in college, but not so much in the pros. But if his stock is high, he should go. A team like the Warriors might like him (shoots a good 3, can make shots in the lane, good passer), and they will draft late. But if he’s just looked at as a spot-up shooter in the Association, then he might only go 2nd round and need to make a team. And maybe Duke needs to make room for Gary Trent Jr.
- Jackson – though he may test the waters, I don’t know if he would be drafted. There are a lot of quick short guards out there who don’t get drafted (Cook) and many more who fail to stick (Avery). Does he really risk it? He has much to learn, and would he rather do it in the NBDL or at Duke for another year? I don’t know if his family needs the money or not.
- Bolden – only if he has really bad advisors will he go pro. He’s shown scouts nothing. If his injuries really derailed him, he need could use a sophomore season to showcase his talents. I’m also pretty sure K would like to see him back given our potential roster next year. We lack big men.
- So my roster looks like – Jackson PG, Kennard? at shooting guard – but if he goes pro, then Trent Jr. Carter at PF (big time wingspan!). Bolden at the 5. Or Trent starts with a 4-guard lineup. After that, there are a ton of questions. How good is O’Connell? Maybe Jeter can play more to expectations at the 4 – I’d love to see him go all Nick Horvath in the weight room! Maybe Vrank will step up and back up or even replace Bolden (though he could be on a MP3 route – serviceable as a senior?). What has White or DeLaurier really shown – maybe they can surprise? And how about Obi – will he ever be anything like he was at Rice? Again, I’d live to see a 8-9 man rotation playing in March 2018.
- I suspect we will be a low top-20 team in pre-season, and higher if Kennard returns. Maybe the less weight of expectations will help the team. I count on K molding them right to beat those expectations, precluding injuries (knock on everything wood).
- Three games in, K wins his 1000th at Duke. That will be sweet.

Duke did win the ACC Tourney (which I personally value a lot, especially since K passed Dean in even more categories). They beat the Heels 2/3 times. They had some heart-pounding comebacks in the ACC Tourney. Watching Kennard be the man, but especially the game against Wake, was awesome. They had a #1 ranking (maybe undeserved, but still…), and they finished in the top 10. Kennard was unanimous All-ACC and a 2nd team All-American. Tatum had some stellar highlights and made All-Freshman and 3rd team All-ACC. Jones was on the All-Defensive team. Jackson got an honorable mention for 6th man. A nice year, but it’s just sometimes you lose, too. Only one team wins it all. And this year, it won’t be Duke.

I’ll now put my efforts into rooting for Carolina to lose. Screw the ACC, the Heels must go down!

[BandAlum83]

I would love a new point of emphasis that if a player keeps his vertical plane (even if he leaves his feet), it's not a foul if the offensive player jumps into him. I don't think the refs could change their whistle-blowing tendencies on that type of play (it's easier to ask them to blow the whistle against instinct than to not), but Amile (I think) got nailed with one of those last night at an inopportune time.

From an article in Sports Illustrated:


New officiating coordinator Collins ready to bring big changes to game (http://www.si.com/college-basketball/2015/10/05/jd-collins-mens-basketball-officiating-rules-changes)

SETH DAVIS
Monday October 5th, 2015


Not all of the changes were made to benefit the offense. The committee also passed a rule which denies a driver the ability to draw a foul simply by jumping into a defender when he goes up for a shot.

[bluebeagle]

Some of the keys to offensive woes. 1. No inside game. I think Giles could of been more of a factor buy no one would throw him the ball. 2. No true point guard to break down the opposing defense to put pressure and maybe open up something either for a 3 or pass to a big. So if you can't drive and kick or drive and pass to the bigs what's left. How bout trying some fast breaks. Why would you ever want to play against a set defense, especially one like SC's if you don't have to. Look, I hate UNC as bad as the next guy but you got to admit their fast breaks are pretty effective. Never understood why we just walk the ball up the floor and then have to play against a set D. Especially with the athletes we have this year.

[Kfanarmy]

its a travesty that needs to be resolved...you make the guys play one way all regular season long and then revert to "letting them play" in the tournament, doesn't seem logical to me, surely its not as you suggest?

I do think there is a let em play edict for the tournament...to some degree every year. What was weird is to watch them call patty cake touch fouls; call fouls they clearly weren't in position for (see Amile's clear steal for a foul late in the game), yet 5 reach ins on one trip down the floor and knocking players to the ground with forearms, aren't called. Bizarre.

[CoachJ10]

I do think there is a let em play edict for the tournament...to some degree every year. What was weird is to watch them call patty cake touch fouls; call fouls they clearly weren't in position for (see Amile's clear steal for a foul late in the game), yet 5 reach ins on one trip down the floor and knocking players to the ground with forearms, aren't called. Bizarre.

That is what really had me over the edge last night...not that they weren't necessarily calling the grabbing, pushing on them (although that did make quite irate)...but the phantom/feather fouls on us that were in complete contrast to that. You could see the dichotomy rattled amile, luke and jayson...they weren't sure what they could do on offense or defense.

[MartyClark]

I was so bummed about this loss that I had to take the day off from ESPN,DBR and any discussion of the game.
,
This was a really interesting season. Duke basketball held my attention until the end. I was fortunate to see Duke play at Louisville and Miami, both losses, but this team had promise, conflict, failure, injuries, despair (at least for me after a few losses), promise, and unfulfilled potential.

The characters were engaging. Grayson Allen and all of his hubris. Harry Giles, raw potential that never saw a consistent fulfillment. Marquise Bolden with mysterious, undisclosed injuries. Chase Jeter, no playing time at the end of the season, not sure whether it was injury or something else. Matt Jones, defensive stalwart, lost his shot for the last part of the season, regained it at the end. Jayson Tatum, best player on the floor at times. Amile Jefferson fought through injury and was great at the end of the year. On and on.

I'm exhausted by this team and need to stop living vicariously and get back to my own life. I wish the best for K, the coaches, and all of these young men. I need to take a short break before becoming interested or enthused in next year's team.

Go Duke!

[Emerrick]

I promise not to vent. I promise not to vent. I promise... AHHH HELLLLLLLL!!!!!! THAT SUCKED!!!!!!!!

USC in South Carolina!!?? Ugh. Really!? Makes no sense. I won't argue about the refs.... many of you've already made a/the point.

Amile was a warrior and a beast. Those block shots were works of art. Just incredible play.
Jones fought his heart out. A few deep 3s as bonus.
I swear Grayson never got healthy. I swear it!
The rest... well... it was a heavy weight fight and we just got nailed time and time again. We fought to the bitter end. Never knocked out, but definitely knocked down multiple times.

For those who think we don't need a true point guard, please tell me when we've gone deep without one. It is how you win championships. UK is my favorite for that sole reason. Fox and Monk look unstoppable.

I hope we pick one up and I hope we get to see next year what might have been this year - sans injuries.

Peace out and thanks for a fun season on the boards. November can't come soon enough (well, actually, maybe it can....). See you on the other side.