State of North Carolina

[ipatent]

Has any state had more Final Four Teams? Haven't researched it but Duke, UNC, State, Wake, Davidson, UNCC makes six. How about NCAA Tournament participants?

[wilson]

Indiana has at least 5 Final Four programs: IU, Purdue, Butler, Notre Dame, and Indiana State. That's the best I can do right now.

[OldPhiKap]

Without looking, I'd say that California has the most National Championships. Besides the slew for UCLA, Stanford won one and San Francisco won two.

[Olympic Fan]

Has any state had more Final Four Teams? Haven't researched it but Duke, UNC, State, Wake, Davidson, UNCC makes six. How about NCAA Tournament participants?

When did Davidson make the Final Four?

[tbyers11]

Without looking, I'd say that California has the most National Championships. Besides the slew for UCLA, Stanford won one and San Francisco won two.

Cal won one in 1959 (I think) as well.

[Tom B.]

Has any state had more Final Four Teams? Haven't researched it but Duke, UNC, State, Wake, Davidson, UNCC makes six. How about NCAA Tournament participants?

Pennsylvania has the most, with eight different programs reaching the Final Four at least once.

Duquesne (1940)
Pittsburgh (1941)
LaSalle (1954, 1955)
Penn State (1954)
Temple (1956, 1958)
St. Joseph's (1961)
Villanova (1971, 1985, 2009, 2016)
Penn (1979)

[wilson]

New York has 6: Syracuse, St. John's, St. Bonaventure, Seton Hall, NYU, CCNY

[ipatent]

Pennsylvania has the most, with eight different programs reaching the Final Four at least once.

Duquesne (1940)
Pittsburgh (1941)
LaSalle (1954, 1955)
Penn State (1954)
Temple (1956, 1958)
St. Joseph's (1961)
Villanova (1971, 1985, 2009, 2016)
Penn (1979)

Never would have guessed that.

[wilson]

When did Davidson make the Final Four?They didn't.
So it appears that Pennsylvania is the front-running state, with NC and NY trailing just behind.

[wilson]

Pennsylvania has the most, with eight different programs reaching the Final Four at least once.

Duquesne (1940)
Pittsburgh (1941)
LaSalle (1954, 1955)
Penn State (1954)
Temple (1956, 1958)
St. Joseph's (1961)
Villanova (1971, 1985, 2009, 2016)
Penn (1979)For the sake of completeness, the St. Joseph's FF appearance was vacated, and they have zero FFs on their official record.

[Tom B.]

New York has 6: Syracuse, St. John's, St. Bonaventure, Seton Hall, NYU, CCNY

Seton Hall is in New Jersey.

[Tom B.]

For the sake of completeness, the St. Joseph's FF appearance was vacated, and they have zero FFs on their official record.

True, but even if you remove that one, I think Pennsylvania still leads with seven.

Villanova also had one of its Final Four appearances (1971) vacated.

[wilson]

Seton Hall is in New Jersey.Good catch!

[Tom B.]

Cal won one in 1959 (I think) as well.

California does indeed have the most championships -- 15 in all. Eleven for UCLA, two for San Francisco, and one each for Cal and Stanford.

North Carolina is second with 12 (five each for Duke and UNC, and two for N.C. State). Kentucky is third with 11 (eight for Kentucky and three for Louisville).

No other state has more than five. Indiana has five (all by Indiana University) and Connecticut is next with four (all by UConn).

The least populous state with a Final Four appearance and NCAA champion is Wyoming, which won the Tournament in 1943.

[ipatent]

How about participants? UNCW and NC Central were in this year, so that's at least eight. Not sure about ECU and UNC-G.

[Olympic Fan]

Just looked up national titles by state.

California does lead (thanks to UCLA): 15 (UCLA 11, San Francisco 2, Stanford 1, Cal 1)

North Carolina has 12 (Duke 5, UNC 5, NC State 3)

Kentucky has 11 (Kentucky 8, Louisville 3)

Nobody else is close ...

[TruBlu]

Seton Hall is in New Jersey.

So is Duke, according to some holes.:mad:

[Indoor66]

Pennsylvania has the most, with eight different programs reaching the Final Four at least once.

Duquesne (1940)
Pittsburgh (1941)
LaSalle (1954, 1955)
Penn State (1954)
Temple (1956, 1958)
St. Joseph's (1961)
Villanova (1971, 1985, 2009, 2016)
Penn (1979)

Villanova '71 was vacated over Howard Porter issues.

[brevity]

This would have been a great question for any day but today and tomorrow.

Wikipedia has a list of Final Four appearances by state here (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NCAA_men's_Division_I_basketball_tournamen t_Final_Four_participants).

NC: 40 (12 titles)
CA: 29 (15)
KY: 27 (11)
KS: 20 (3)
OH: 18 (3)
MI: 15 (3)
IN: 14 (5)
PA: 14 (3)
NY: 13 (2)
TX: 12 (1)
OK: 11 (2)
IL: 10 (1)

[Olympic Fan]

How about participants? UNCW and NC Central were in this year, so that's at least eight. Not sure about ECU and UNC-G.

ECU and UNC G have both made the field. So have Campbell and North Carolina A&T.

Might be a couple of more. App State?

[wilson]

ECU and UNC G have both made the field. So have Campbell and North Carolina A&T.

Might be a couple of more. App State?App has been twice.
UNC Asheville has been 4 times.

[grad_devil]

ECU and UNC G have both made the field. So have Campbell and North Carolina A&T.

Might be a couple of more. App State?

WCU and UNCA have both made the field before.

[wilson]

WCU and UNCA have both made the field before.WCU's lone appearance was a memorable one...they came within a gnat's [behind] of beating #1 seed Purdue in 1996 (lost by 2).

[devildeac]

Just looked up national titles by state.

California does lead (thanks to UCLA): 15 (UCLA 11, San Francisco 2, Stanford 1, Cal 1)

North Carolina has 12 (Duke 5, UNC 5*, NC State 3)

Kentucky has 11 (Kentucky 8, Louisville 3)

Nobody else is close ...

*Clarification. For now. ;)

[ipatent]

So we have

Duke
UNC
State
Wake
Davidson
UNCC (Charlotte)
NC Central
ECU
UNC Asheville
WCU
UNC Wilmington
Campbell
UNC-G
NC A&T

That's 14 teams having made the field. Any State that has more?

[wilson]

So we have

Duke
UNC
State
Wake
Davidson
UNCC (Charlotte)
NC Central
ECU
UNC Asheville
WCU
UNC Wilmington
Campbell
UNC-G
NC A&T

That's 14 teams having made the field. Any State that has more?California has at least 23 that I count:

UCLA
Cal
Stanford
USC
San Francisco
Pepperdine
Santa Clara
San Diego State
Pacific
St. Mary's
Long Beach State
Fresno State
UC-Santa Barbara
Loyola-Marymount
San Diego
San Jose State
Cal State-Fullerton
Cal State-Northridge
UC-Davis
Cal Poly
Cal State-Bakersfield
UC-Irvine
Cal State-Los Angeles (now DII)

[sagegrouse]

New York has 6: Syracuse, St. John's, St. Bonaventure, Seton Hall, NYU, CCNY

Seton Hall is in New Jersey, but you can see the NYC skyline from the campus.

[Indoor66]

Seton Hall is in New Jersey, but you can see the NYC skyline from the campus.

But you cannot see the Walt Whitman Bridge. 😈😛😎

[sagegrouse]

Villanova '71 was vacated over Howard Porter issues.

St. Joseph's 1961 Final Four third place finish was later vacated by the NCAA.

I believe (based on 54 year-old memories) that the vacation of St. Joe's 1961 tourney results, including an Elite Eight win over Wake Forest, improved the ACC's tournament record enough that Duke got a bye in the 1963 tournament, which was Duke's first Final Four season.

[Tom B.]

So we have

Duke
UNC
State
Wake
Davidson
UNCC (Charlotte)
NC Central
ECU
UNC Asheville
WCU
UNC Wilmington
Campbell
UNC-G
NC A&T

That's 14 teams having made the field. Any State that has more?

15.

Appalachian State has made the NCAA Tournament twice (1979, 2000).

[VA_BDevil]

Cal won one in 1959 (I think) as well.

Didn't realize Calipari had been coaching so long. He really takes care of himself.

[hallcity]

This would have been a great question for any day but today and tomorrow.

Wikipedia has a list of Final Four appearances by state here (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NCAA_men's_Division_I_basketball_tournamen t_Final_Four_participants).

NC: 40 (12 titles)
CA: 29 (15)
KY: 27 (11)
KS: 20 (3)
OH: 18 (3)
MI: 15 (3)
IN: 14 (5)
PA: 14 (3)
NY: 13 (2)
TX: 12 (1)
OK: 11 (2)
IL: 10 (1)

I think NC can fairly claim to be THE STATE of college basketball.

[ipatent]

California has at least 23 that I count:

UCLA
Cal
Stanford
USC
San Francisco
Pepperdine
Santa Clara
San Diego State
Pacific
St. Mary's
Long Beach State
Fresno State
UC-Santa Barbara
Loyola-Marymount
San Diego
San Jose State
Cal State-Fullerton
Cal State-Northridge
UC-Davis
Cal Poly
Cal State-Bakersfield
UC-Irvine
Cal State-Los Angeles (now DII)

That's a lot...they add up.

[DU82]

Seton Hall is in New Jersey, but you can see the NYC skyline from the campus.

Somewhat off-topic, but the N&O ran a story earlier this week about some data geeks running numbers to come up with the best college basketball cities/towns. Cheaterville came up first, LA second, Durham third (I question the data, given that Cullowhee, home of Western Carolina, was ranked tenth. Sorry I can't find the link right now, but the site didn't list any of the data, just what categories they used.)

They got down to mentioning others, saying that "Raleigh was 161, in spite of North Carolina Central being in the NCAA tournament."

This is the same company that just bought the Durham Herald-Sun.

[kmspeaks]

So we have

Duke
UNC
State
Wake
Davidson
UNCC (Charlotte)
NC Central
ECU
UNC Asheville
WCU
UNC Wilmington
Campbell
UNC-G
NC A&T

That's 14 teams having made the field. Any State that has more?

I thought Virginia might be close, but we only have 12.
UVA, Virginia Tech, George Mason, VCU, Richmond, Radford, Old Dominion, Hampton, Norfolk State, James Madison, Liberty, and VMI.

[Olympic Fan]

St. Joseph's 1961 Final Four third place finish was later vacated by the NCAA.

I believe (based on 54 year-old memories) that the vacation of St. Joe's 1961 tourney results, including an Elite Eight win over Wake Forest, improved the ACC's tournament record enough that Duke got a bye in the 1963 tournament, which was Duke's first Final Four season.

Nope, that's not what happened.

It's true that the ACC was battling the East Coast Conference (which at the time included St. Joe's and Temple) for a bye ... which was awarded to the conference with the best NCAA Tournament winning percentage. The vacated Final Four by St. Joe's didn't impact that.

Instead, Wake Forest (with Lennie Chappell and Billy Packer). knocked off St. Joe's in 1962 and gave the ACC a temporary lead. But the Deacs lost to Ohio State (the Jerry Lucas, John Havlicek team) in the Final Four and for a few hours, the ECC was back in front. Then Wake won one of the most important games in ACC history, beating John Wooden and UCLA 82-80 in the Final Four consolation game. THAT win gave the ACC the bye. After the game, Wake coach Bones McKinney said, "that's the first time a consolation game has ever given my any consolation. Tell Vic we did it for him."

Bones knew that with Chappell and Packer graduating, while Bubas was returning Heyman and Mullins (not to mention Buckley and Harrison), Duke was poised to dominate the ACC. Indeed, Duke went 14-0 in ACC play in 1963 and 13-1 in 1964. That first year, Duke enjoyed the bye that Wake had won for the league. Duke beat St. Joe's in the regional finals, then beat Oregon State in the consolation game to consolidate the ACC's hold on the bye. The ACC held its bye until 1975 when the byes were eliminated (they came back in 1979, but at that point, the byes were determined by the strength of the competing teams, not the conference records).

Incidentally, I was looking at some numbers today and saw that South Carolina has won two NCAA games in its history -- and one of those was a consolation game. The only game they have ever won that mattered was in 1971, their first year since leaving the ACC, when they beat Temple in a play-in game ... then lost to UNC in the Sweet 16. Northwestern now has the same number of meaningful NCAA wins as South Carolina.

[DukieInBrasil]

so far the state of North Carolina is 0-2 in the tournament. NCCU lost in their play-in game and UNC-W lost today to UVA.

[brevity]

so far the state of North Carolina is 0-2 in the tournament. NCCU lost in their play-in game and UNC-W lost today to UVA.

0-3. Wake Forest lost to Kansas State on Tuesday's 11-seed play-in game.

[DukieInBrasil]

0-3. Wake Forest lost to Kansas State on Tuesday's 11-seed play-in game.

yup, i remembered that just after i put my head on the pillow for sleepies. Not the best of starts.

[Dev11]

0-3. Wake Forest lost to Kansas State on Tuesday's 11-seed play-in game.

May the streak continue through the afternoon today before halting abruptly around nightfall.

[OldPhiKap]

yup, i remembered that just after i put my head on the pillow for sleepies. Not the best of starts.

So far, the Greatest Conference in the Country has been less than impressive in both the NCAA and the NIT.

[PackMan97]

For the sake of completeness, the St. Joseph's FF appearance was vacated, and they have zero FFs on their official record.

Just a good reminder that vacating wins really does little to change the record books or historical recollections of those that saw the games.

[Olympic Fan]

So far, the Greatest Conference in the Country has been less than impressive in both the NCAA and the NIT.

A little early to jump to conclusions. If Duke, UNC and Louisville win (as they should), the ACC will have six teams in the second round -- the same as last year, when the ACC had the greatest NCAA run in history. If Miami can win vs. Michigan State (not counting on it, but it wouldn't be a big upset) then the ACC would have seven in the second round -- the most it's ever had.

Of course, the real test of conference depth will come when the teams start vying for the Sweet 16. We've had five and six teams in the Sweet 16 round the last two years. Let's wait and see how that goes.

FWIW, this is IMHO the wrong thread to bring this debate up -- we have a This Week in the ACC and a Live Tournament thread.

This thread is supposed to be about the state of North Carolina -- which is unquestionably off to a poor (0-3) start. We''' see how Duke and UNC do today.

[CDu]

New York (23) and Texas (23) also have more schools to have qualified than North Carolina. It helps to have more D-1 universities.

[Indoor66]

New York (23) and Texas (23) also have more schools to have qualified than North Carolina. It helps to have more D-1 universities.

A very shrewd observation. I would expect no less from you. :D:cool:

[rocketeli]

but we need to look at championships/participants relative to population to discern the true leader. Otherwise, it's just bigger states have more schools...

[jimsumner]

but we need to look at championships/participants relative to population to discern the true leader. Otherwise, it's just bigger states have more schools...

Well, Wyoming won an NCAA title and that state has about 12 people. So, the laurels go to Wyoming.

Not literally 12 people. FWIW.

[Wander]

Well, Wyoming won an NCAA title and that state has about 12 people. So, the laurels go to Wyoming.

Not literally 12 people. FWIW.

I know you're joking, but I would guess that Kentucky would be the clear winner here. 11 national championships, but the population is only about 8 times that of Wyoming. I don't think any other state would come that close.

[Olympic Fan]

I know you're joking, but I would guess that Kentucky would be the clear winner here. 11 national championships, but the population is only about 8 times that of Wyoming. I don't think any other state would come that close.

Based on wiki stats, I divided state populations by national titles.

Kentucky does indeed win (4.4 million population/11 titles) -- one title for every 400,000 people
Wyoming has one title for a population of 584,000
North Carolina has 12 titles for 9.9 million -- one title for 825,000 people
California has 15 titles, but 38.8 million -- one title for every 2.5 million

[Reilly]

... Kentucky does indeed win (4.4 million population/11 titles) -- one title for every 400,000 people ...

I guess that proves that the old Margaret Mead quote (paraphrased) is correct: "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens paying large sums to recruits can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."

[chriso]

I think my state of Washington had Washington, Washington State, Seattle U and...sorry can't complete this with a straight face. :)

[grateful_duke]

Pennsylvania has the most, with eight different programs reaching the Final Four at least once.

Duquesne (1940)
Pittsburgh (1941)
LaSalle (1954, 1955)
Penn State (1954)
Temple (1956, 1958)
St. Joseph's (1961)
Villanova (1971, 1985, 2009, 2016)
Penn (1979)

PA may have more schools to have reached the Final 4... but PA is wayyyyyyyy behind NC in TOTAL Final Fours per State....Hell, PA only has 1 more than just Coach K's 12....

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Based on wiki stats, I divided state populations by national titles.

Kentucky does indeed win (4.4 million population/11 titles) -- one title for every 400,000 people
Wyoming has one title for a population of 584,000
North Carolina has 12 titles for 9.9 million -- one title for 825,000 people
California has 15 titles, but 38.8 million -- one title for every 2.5 million

Washington DC would also be up there on this list with its one title (Georgetown) and population of 659k. If only Fred Brown hadn't turned it over...

And CT has 4 titles (UCONN) and 3.6 million people for one every 900k. Factor in their women's titles and they win by a lot.

[grateful_duke]

This would have been a great question for any day but today and tomorrow.

Wikipedia has a list of Final Four appearances by state here (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NCAA_men's_Division_I_basketball_tournamen t_Final_Four_participants).

NC: 40 (12 titles)
CA: 29 (15)
KY: 27 (11)
KS: 20 (3)
OH: 18 (3)
MI: 15 (3)
IN: 14 (5)
PA: 14 (3)
NY: 13 (2)
TX: 12 (1)
OK: 11 (2)
IL: 10 (1)

^^^^

[CDu]

Washington DC would also be up there on this list with its one title (Georgetown) and population of 659k. If only Fred Brown hadn't turned it over...

And CT has 4 titles (UCONN) and 3.6 million people for one every 900k. Factor in their women's titles and they win by a lot.

Wisconsin is probably in the discussion too with their two titles in state.

[pfrduke]

Wisconsin is probably in the discussion too with their two titles in state.

Wisconsin has almost 6 million people, so probably not.

[brevity]

One of the things I always watch is how many tournament teams each state comes up with.

This comment came from the Conference Tournament Week (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?39583-Conference-Tournament-Week) thread, and this seems like a good enough time to answer in the geekiest and most inconvenient way possible.

Click on this Sporcle map quiz (https://www.sporcle.com/games/armadilloking/2017-march-madness-minefield) (no need to register) that requires you to pick the states that have at least one team in the 2017 NCAA Tournament field of 68. The quiz ends when you pick an incorrect state or when time runs out, but you can play again. It's probably easier to play on a desktop or laptop (or maybe a tablet) than on a phone.

I have no afflliation with the site -- I've never even registered -- but you can get sucked down a trivia hole if you're bored enough.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I think my state of Washington had Washington, Washington State, Seattle U and...sorry can't complete this with a straight face. :)

Seattle Pacific? Evergreem?

:)

No, but you do have Zags.

[ipatent]

Final Fours within a metro area, no contest there. This is UNC's 20th.

[jv001]

Based on wiki stats, I divided state populations by national titles.

Kentucky does indeed win (4.4 million population/11 titles) -- one title for every 400,000 people
Wyoming has one title for a population of 584,000
North Carolina has 12 titles for 9.9 million -- one title for 825,000 people
California has 15 titles, but 38.8 million -- one title for every 2.5 million

I'm hoping two of those titles are taken away by the NCAA but I won't hold my breath. GoDuke!

[madscavenger]

Well i ask this with a little trepidation, but which state pray tell, has the honor of sporting the most NOAs?