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rsvman
03-14-2017, 05:15 PM
OK, here goes.

Would you rather that we make it only to the Sweet Sixteen, but UNCheat becomes the first 1 seed to lose to a 16 seed,

OR

that we make the Final Four and lose in the semifinal, but UNC wins the championship?



Obviously neither scenario is likely, but just for fun, if those were you only two choices, which would you choose?

OldPhiKap
03-14-2017, 05:30 PM
OK, here goes.

Would you rather that we make it only to the Sweet Sixteen, but UNCheat becomes the first 1 seed to lose to a 16 seed,

OR

that we make the Final Four and lose in the semifinal, but UNC wins the championship?



Obviously neither scenario is likely, but just for fun, if those were you only two choices, which would you choose?

I root for Duke more than I root against Carolina.

Having said that, neither one would make me very happy. Second one is the worst of the two for me I suppose.

Troublemaker
03-14-2017, 05:42 PM
First one is better. I don't think UNC fans remember 1991 too fondly.

This isn't to say that rooting against UNC is more important than rooting for Duke.

If we could make a deal where Duke won the championship this year and UNC won it next year, I would take it. Just playing the odds. Winning a title is so hard.

Wander
03-14-2017, 05:54 PM
Rooting for Duke is more important than rooting against UNC, but in 20 years, almost no one will remember if Duke made the Sweet 16 vs Final Four. It's a relatively small difference in the grand scheme of things. But UNC losing to a 16 seed will live on for eternity.

wilson
03-14-2017, 06:04 PM
Rooting for Duke is more important than rooting against UNC, but in 20 years, almost no one will remember if Duke made the Sweet 16 vs Final Four. It's a relatively small difference in the grand scheme of things. But UNC losing to a 16 seed will live on for eternity.This sums up my feelings. Think of how fun it would be to watch this 30 For 30 like 922 times.

kmspeaks
03-14-2017, 06:37 PM
Goal 1 - Duke wins national championship
Goal 2 - uNC does not win national championship

The first one and this was an easy choice.

Tripping William
03-14-2017, 06:45 PM
First one is better. I don't think UNC fans remember 1991 too fondly.

This isn't to say that rooting against UNC is more important than rooting for Duke.

If we could make a deal where Duke won the championship this year and UNC won it next year, I would take it. Just playing the odds. Winning a title is so hard.

How about Duke wins the title, Carolina loses the title game the next year on a last-second shot, and then Duke wins the title the following year? :o

SCMatt33
03-14-2017, 06:49 PM
I personally wouldn't even need UNC to lose in the first round to take scenario 1. I'll take last years results over a hypothetical world where we beat Oregon and then Oklahoma only to have Jenkins shot miss in the final and UNC wins in OT.

throatybeard
03-14-2017, 07:06 PM
No. No.

chriso
03-14-2017, 07:37 PM
OK, here goes.

Would you rather that we make it only to the Sweet Sixteen, but UNCheat becomes the first 1 seed to lose to a 16 seed,

OR

that we make the Final Four and lose in the semifinal, but UNC wins the championship?



Obviously neither scenario is likely, but just for fun, if those were you only two choices, which would you choose?
Final 4 for sure. It would not be nice to see UNC win, but I'd always take a Final 4. Of course, I'd rather marry Jennifer Garner, have Duke win it all, have Tatum and Giles come back for 3 more seasons and have UNC go out in the first round but that was not the question. :)

crimsondevil
03-14-2017, 07:40 PM
How about Duke wins the title, Carolina loses the title game the next year on a last-second shot, Duke wins the title the following year, and Carolina is crippled by NCAA sanctions for the next 5+ years while Duke wins another title or two? :o

FIFY.

rthomas
03-14-2017, 07:44 PM
Would you rather slide down a razor blade bannister into a pool of alcohol? or pee gasoline into a camp fire?

GGLC
03-14-2017, 08:31 PM
OK, here goes.

Would you rather that we make it only to the Sweet Sixteen, but UNCheat becomes the first 1 seed to lose to a 16 seed,

OR

that we make the Final Four and lose in the semifinal, but UNC wins the championship?



Obviously neither scenario is likely, but just for fun, if those were you only two choices, which would you choose?

#1 is the better option by a landslide.

Screw those cheaters. We can always try for a championship again next season, but UNC losing to a 16 seed will provide me happy thoughts for years to come.

uh_no
03-14-2017, 08:49 PM
How about Duke wins the title, Carolina loses the title game the next year on a last-second shot, and then Duke wins the title the following year? :o

the stuff movies are made of

proelitedota
03-14-2017, 08:50 PM
I usually enjoy schadenfreude. But a 1 over 16 is probably too much for me to laugh at. It'll might actually literally kill some people.

wilko
03-14-2017, 08:54 PM
eh... If you are gonna dream, dream BIG.
Duke beats them in a title game.

Any Heel wants to get chirpy when you aren't feeling gracious... send them to their room with no supper.

Edouble
03-14-2017, 11:05 PM
OK, here goes.

Would you rather that we make it only to the Sweet Sixteen, but UNCheat becomes the first 1 seed to lose to a 16 seed,

OR

that we make the Final Four and lose in the semifinal, but UNC wins the championship?



Obviously neither scenario is likely, but just for fun, if those were you only two choices, which would you choose?

Scenario 1: Duke advances further in the tournament
Scenario 2: unc advances further in the tournament

Seems like a no-brainer

GGLC
03-14-2017, 11:07 PM
Scenario 1: Duke advances further in the tournament
Scenario 2: unc advances further in the tournament

Seems like a no-brainer

Bingo.

JetpackJesus
03-14-2017, 11:48 PM
OK, here goes.

Would you rather that we make it only to the Sweet Sixteen, but UNCheat becomes the first 1 seed to lose to a 16 seed,

OR

that we make the Final Four and lose in the semifinal, but UNC wins the championship?



Obviously neither scenario is likely, but just for fun, if those were you only two choices, which would you choose?

This is easy for me. The first one, and here's why: I have four ultimate desires every NCAA Tournament:

Duke wins it all
UNC does not win it all
Maryland does not win it all
Kentucky does not win it all
Since Duke winning a title is not an option in this hypothetical, I must go with the hypothetical does not involve UNC winning a title.

GGLC
03-15-2017, 12:27 AM
Yup. And I'll go a step further:

If Option 1 was that Duke loses in the Sweet Sixteen and UNC loses in the title game (or the Final Four, or the Elite Eight, or also the Sweet Sixteen), and Option 2 was that Duke loses in the Final Four and UNC wins a title, Option 1 is still the easiest choice in the world 100 times out of 100.

They don't deserve any happiness. They can go jump in a lake.

OldPhiKap
03-15-2017, 07:21 AM
My order of preference every year:

1. Duke wins it all.
2. Duke didn't win it all, but at least we went farther than UNC.
3. Oh well, baseball is about to start.

throatybeard
03-15-2017, 07:56 AM
Would you rather slide down a razor blade bannister into a pool of alcohol? or pee gasoline into a camp fire?

I can't answer until you start an entirely new thread.

moonpie23
03-15-2017, 08:08 AM
any scenario put forth that includes THEM winning the natty is just unacceptable..

davekay1971
03-15-2017, 08:45 AM
Yeah. Option 1. Two things are (would be) immortal: winning a natty, and a 1 losing to a 16. Sweet 16s and Final Fours are noteworthy accomplishments. But, for me, this choice boils down to which immortality would I prefer for the Heels. No brainer.

devildeac
03-15-2017, 09:23 AM
Yup. And I'll go a step further:

If Option 1 was that Duke loses in the Sweet Sixteen and UNC loses in the title game (or the Final Four, or the Elite Eight, or also the Sweet Sixteen), and Option 2 was that Duke loses in the Final Four and UNC wins a title, Option 1 is still the easiest choice in the world 100 times out of 100.

They don't deserve any happiness. They can go jump in a lake.

I ASSume you're referencing this lake:

"But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."

Revelation 21:8

If so, then I'm good with that line of thought. 9F

PackMan97
03-15-2017, 09:31 AM
OK, here goes.

Would you rather that we make it only to the Sweet Sixteen, but UNCheat becomes the first 1 seed to lose to a 16 seed,

OR

that we make the Final Four and lose in the semifinal, but UNC wins the championship?



Obviously neither scenario is likely, but just for fun, if those were you only two choices, which would you choose?

how is this even a struggle? I want UNC to lose as early and as often as possible. That you guys would advance two rounds further is only icing on the cake that y'all can against them.

Do you really think you'll get any peace from Hole fans if they win it all regardless of your achievements? heck no!

Kfanarmy
03-15-2017, 09:40 AM
Goal 1 - Duke wins national championship
Goal 2 - uNC does not win national championship

The first one and this was an easy choice.

You have the potential for both of those to happen in the same game this year...not always the case

Fish80
03-15-2017, 09:42 AM
Would you rather slide down a razor blade bannister into a pool of alcohol? or pee gasoline into a camp fire?

Ouch. I choose neither of those.

How about Duke wins National Championship while old Roy does the razor blade campfire things?

CDu
03-15-2017, 09:45 AM
Yeah, I agree with many others in this thread. This isn't a complicated choice for me. Option 1 is easily the preferred option of two disappointing outcomes. One is the equivalent of a paper cut but treated with an ice cream, the other is an ice cream followed by a shark biting your limb off.

Option 1 all the way. No titles for UNC.

jipops
03-15-2017, 10:21 AM
Option 1. Very easy choice. No titles for the undeserving cheats please.

chriso
03-15-2017, 11:09 AM
Final 4 for sure. It would not be nice to see UNC win, but I'd always take a Final 4. Of course, I'd rather marry Jennifer Garner, have Duke win it all, have Tatum and Giles come back for 3 more seasons and have UNC go out in the first round but that was not the question. :)
This is amusing. Am I the only one to vote Final Four? I guess I need to level up on my NC hating. :) I love Duke, but I don't hate UNC. I don't like them, and I hate losing to them, but I don't really hate any team. Gotta work on that. :cool:

PackMan97
03-15-2017, 11:15 AM
This is amusing. Am I the only one to vote Final Four? I guess I need to level up on my NC hating. :) I love Duke, but I don't hate UNC. I don't like them, and I hate losing to them, but I don't really hate any team. Gotta work on that. :cool:

I think a lot of it is that UNC would be immortalized as the biggest upset in the history of the world...in the best way possible :)

chriso
03-15-2017, 11:23 AM
I think a lot of it is that UNC would be immortalized as the biggest upset in the history of the world...in the best way possible :)

True but we get another final four! :) I don't live in the Triangle and imagine there are a lot of Mercer taunts so I understand.

throatybeard
03-15-2017, 11:32 AM
But UNC losing to a 16 seed will live on for eternity.

The sixteen is the one.

PackMan97
03-15-2017, 11:33 AM
True but we get another final four! :) I don't live in the Triangle and imagine there are a lot of Mercer taunts so I understand.

My wife went to Mercer Law School...I must admit I suspended my normal "cheer for Duke because it annoys UNC" rule. All the Cheater fans at work the next day were wondeirng where I got a Mercer shirt from so quickly :)

GGLC
03-15-2017, 11:48 AM
True but we get another final four! :) I don't live in the Triangle and imagine there are a lot of Mercer taunts so I understand.

Final Fours are nice, but they're also super-painful when we lose. I still remember how I felt in 1994 (watching in Cameron as Antonio Lang's manicured nail missed by the barest margin), 1999 (I named my VHS videotape "Trajan Langdon's Last Game" and never watched it again), and 2004 (nobody could breathe on Emeka Okafor without getting called for a foul); in some minor but lasting way, I'm scarred from the experiences. Non-Final Four losses can also be very painful -- BOOZER WAS FOULED -- but to get so close to a championship and then fall short is so much worse to me. That's why last year's tournament was so frustrating and then ultimately so joyous.

So, really, I don't even see Option #2 as offering a positive outcome (Duke Final Four) counterbalanced with a negative outcome (UNC championship) -- BOTH outcomes in Option #1 would actually be less painful, especially in the long run. Sure, Duke loses in the Sweet Sixteen, but I can easily console myself by the fact that we got further than UNC and that they're the laughing-stock of sports. In the other option, the idea of us losing in the Final Four, UNC doing better than us, AND UNC winning the title would be unimaginably bad. The Final Four appearance is zero consolation for that.

chriso
03-15-2017, 12:07 PM
Final Fours are nice, but they're also super-painful when we lose. I still remember how I felt in 1994 (watching in Cameron as Antonio Lang's manicured nail missed by the barest margin), 1999 (I named my VHS videotape "Trajan Langdon's Last Game" and never watched it again), and 2004 (nobody could breathe on Emeka Okafor without getting called for a foul); in some minor but lasting way, I'm scarred from the experiences. Non-Final Four losses can also be very painful -- BOOZER WAS FOULED -- but to get so close to a championship and then fall short is so much worse to me. That's why last year's tournament was so frustrating and then ultimately so joyous.

So, really, I don't even see Option #2 as offering a positive outcome (Duke Final Four) counterbalanced with a negative outcome (UNC championship) -- BOTH outcomes in Option #1 would actually be less painful, especially in the long run. Sure, Duke loses in the Sweet Sixteen, but I can easily console myself by the fact that we got further than UNC and that they're the laughing-stock of sports. In the other option, the idea of us losing in the Final Four, UNC doing better than us, AND UNC winning the title would be unimaginably bad. The Final Four appearance is zero consolation for that.
But Yoda says that hate leads to the Dark Side. :) Sorry big Star Wars fan.

COYS
03-15-2017, 12:18 PM
Final Fours are nice, but they're also super-painful when we lose. I still remember how I felt in 1994 (watching in Cameron as Antonio Lang's manicured nail missed by the barest margin), 1999 (I named my VHS videotape "Trajan Langdon's Last Game" and never watched it again), and 2004 (nobody could breathe on Emeka Okafor without getting called for a foul); in some minor but lasting way, I'm scarred from the experiences. Non-Final Four losses can also be very painful -- BOOZER WAS FOULED -- but to get so close to a championship and then fall short is so much worse to me. That's why last year's tournament was so frustrating and then ultimately so joyous.

So, really, I don't even see Option #2 as offering a positive outcome (Duke Final Four) counterbalanced with a negative outcome (UNC championship) -- BOTH outcomes in Option #1 would actually be less painful, especially in the long run. Sure, Duke loses in the Sweet Sixteen, but I can easily console myself by the fact that we got further than UNC and that they're the laughing-stock of sports. In the other option, the idea of us losing in the Final Four, UNC doing better than us, AND UNC winning the title would be unimaginably bad. The Final Four appearance is zero consolation for that.

This is sensible analysis. I became a Duke fan by going to summer programs at Duke for many years as a kid even though I never attended Duke. Watching the 2004 Final Four in college with other college basketball fans who were ALL aggressively rooting against Duke was one of the loneliest experiences of my life (this probably means I've lived a pretty good life, so I guess I shouldn't complain :)). Losing in the Final Four is extremely painful. I still remember the disbelief the next morning after the '99 title game. I have to think much harder to recall the joy of the many victories from that season. Losing in the Sweet 16 hurts, but it's a different kind of hurt. Given that the outcomes in both of these scenarios are preordained and that Coach K and Duke do not really gain any reputation/recruiting advantages by merely reaching a Final Four, Option 1 is the easy answer.

That being said, if Option 2 were tweaked to say that BOTH UNC and Duke reach the Final Four but the outcome is still very much up in the air, then I would gladly risk Armageddon (Duke losing to UNC in a title game or Duke losing in the semi-final only to watch UNC win the title). It's a terrifying prospect, of course. But it'd still be worth it because I'd have to think our Blue Devils would come through with the victory.

flyingdutchdevil
03-15-2017, 12:23 PM
My order of preference every year:

1. Duke wins it all.
2. Duke didn't win it all, but at least we went farther than UNC.
3. Oh well, baseball is about to start.

I like this. Although I can't care for baseball, so my list is:

1. Duke wins it all.
2. Duke didn't win it all, but at least we went farther than UNC.
3. Oh well, it's an even year. World Cup/Euro Cup is about to start.
4. Crap. It's an odd year. Guess I'll workout...

chriso
03-15-2017, 12:26 PM
This is sensible analysis. I became a Duke fan by going to summer programs at Duke for many years as a kid even though I never attended Duke. Watching the 2004 Final Four in college with other college basketball fans who were ALL aggressively rooting against Duke was one of the loneliest experiences of my life (this probably means I've lived a pretty good life, so I guess I shouldn't complain :)). Losing in the Final Four is extremely painful. I still remember the disbelief the next morning after the '99 title game. I have to think much harder to recall the joy of the many victories from that season. Losing in the Sweet 16 hurts, but it's a different kind of hurt. Given that the outcomes in both of these scenarios are preordained and that Coach K and Duke do not really gain any reputation/recruiting advantages by merely reaching a Final Four, Option 1 is the easy answer.

That being said, if Option 2 were tweaked to say that BOTH UNC and Duke reach the Final Four but the outcome is still very much up in the air, then I would gladly risk Armageddon (Duke losing to UNC in a title game or Duke losing in the semi-final only to watch UNC win the title). It's a terrifying prospect, of course. But it'd still be worth it because I'd have to think our Blue Devils would come through with the victory.
Final Four is a significant accomplishment. Not the ultimate, but close. But it does hurt more going out in the last game, the championship.But is a FF loss really worse than getting blasted by the Ducks in the Sweet 16? I live out west and that HURT. :) But I see your point sir.

GGLC
03-15-2017, 12:29 PM
This is sensible analysis. I became a Duke fan by going to summer programs at Duke for many years as a kid even though I never attended Duke. Watching the 2004 Final Four in college with other college basketball fans who were ALL aggressively rooting against Duke was one of the loneliest experiences of my life (this probably means I've lived a pretty good life, so I guess I shouldn't complain :)). Losing in the Final Four is extremely painful. I still remember the disbelief the next morning after the '99 title game. I have to think much harder to recall the joy of the many victories from that season. Losing in the Sweet 16 hurts, but it's a different kind of hurt. Given that the outcomes in both of these scenarios are preordained and that Coach K and Duke do not really gain any reputation/recruiting advantages by merely reaching a Final Four, Option 1 is the easy answer.

That being said, if Option 2 were tweaked to say that BOTH UNC and Duke reach the Final Four but the outcome is still very much up in the air, then I would gladly risk Armageddon (Duke losing to UNC in a title game or Duke losing in the semi-final only to watch UNC win the title). It's a terrifying prospect, of course. But it'd still be worth it because I'd have to think our Blue Devils would come through with the victory.

Yeah, that tweaked #2 scenario is a lot harder choice for me. I'm pretty sure I go with both teams making the Final Four. (Not least because K is such a better coach than Roy, and the prospect of Duke and UNC meeting in the title game and Duke coming out on top would be the single greatest sports thing ever.)

flyingdutchdevil
03-15-2017, 12:31 PM
Yeah, that tweaked #2 scenario is a lot harder choice for me. I'm pretty sure I go with both teams making the Final Four. (Not least because K is such a better coach than Roy, and the prospect of Duke and UNC meeting in the title game and Duke coming out on top would be the single greatest sports thing ever.)

Yes, and UNC coming out on top would be the single worst sports thing ever. Which is why I never want to face them in the tournament.

If UNC beat Duke in the title game this year, UNC could go 0-20 against Duke over the next 10 years and say, "We beat you in the tournament". And they'd win that argument in a heart beat.

GGLC
03-15-2017, 12:43 PM
Yes, and UNC coming out on top would be the single worst sports thing ever. Which is why I never want to face them in the tournament.

If UNC beat Duke in the title game this year, UNC could go 0-20 against Duke over the next 10 years and say, "We beat you in the tournament". And they'd win that argument in a heart beat.

By this logic, it seems like you would say that a Final Four with UNC but without Duke would, ab initio, be preferable to a Final Four with both UNC and Duke.

I can't agree.

jipops
03-15-2017, 01:02 PM
Yes, and UNC coming out on top would be the single worst sports thing ever. Which is why I never want to face them in the tournament.

If UNC beat Duke in the title game this year, UNC could go 0-20 against Duke over the next 10 years and say, "We beat you in the tournament". And they'd win that argument in a heart beat.

I feel like this is all a dark cloud looming over this tournament. Though there is only about a 1.2% chance of this happening, I wonder how much those odds increase if both are in the sweet 16.

The cheats' path is a lot easier. The Elite 8 is pretty much a guarantee for them. I think their stiffest competition to get to the F4 would be UK. UCLA doesn't play much defense and the next best team after that may be Wichita St. I don't think the cheats would have much of a problem dispatching either of those. At the F4 my money is on a matchup with Kansas who will have gotten a bit of a bumpy region featuring either a wounded Oregon team or an at times offensively challenged Louisville team. They are also the weakest 1 seed right now. But Kansas is small so the cheats would have their way with them in the paint via their bread and butter offensive boards. In my opinion, the probability of the cheats in the final is quite high. So the way I see it, UK is really the only true resistance to the cheats reaching the title game.

Then there is Duke. We've been playing better than our Kenpom rating lately but (and not to look too far ahead for us), a potential matchup with SMU could be problematic. The Mustangs are very efficient. They defend, rebound, and score...not against the best level of competition, but any of their starting 5 presents a matchup problem. After that there is of course the defending champs and then a potential matchup with any one of Arizona, Gonzaga, or West Virginia in the semifinal - all 3 of which have been playing better ball than either Kansas or Louisville (ok wvu has had some recent offensive struggles).

The selection committee did the cheats a gigantic favor inexplicably giving them a 1 seed, providing them a better path to the Final Four. I see it as much more difficult for Duke to hold up its end of the bargain. But I'd much rather this apocalyptic matchup not take place at all. I'd probably have to leave the state.