Matt Jones

[ipatent]

:)

He must have been as disappointed as anyone else with his shooting this year, how great it is that he had a special moment in the closing minutes of the ACC championship game.

[uh_no]

Matt Stones.

[weezie]

thank you matt!!!!

[heyman25]

That was a moment. I could not believe it went in.He has been so shaky all season.Big time play. We needed to make plays after the first 10 minutes. We were really unraveling with unforced errors.Tatum's coast to coast was such a huge play as well. Loving this team now.Giles had one goof . It happens, but he will be such an asset in the NCAA tourney.

This made 3 will really give Matt confidence. He will be open,but he has to make those.

[Snap]

My first thought after that basket was about the support for Matt and happiness for him that would be expressed in the DBR Forums !

[wsb3]

It was a fine time to break out of a slump...Thank you Matt..

[Ballboy1998]

Love Matt and think he has had a great senior season even with a shooting slump. Could not be happier that he made that shot. Honestly, it might not be backed up statistically, but I feel like he has had a knack for hitting really key threes over his career, even if his offense can be a bit shaky overall. Hopefully it takes the lid off for him going into the NCAAs, but even if it doesn't want a great way to end his ACC career!

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

That was a moment.

No, it was three moments. The big shot, finding Tatum for the breakaway on the contested inbounds, and then forcing the turnover under the basket on Notre Dame.

Amazing, mature sequence, crucial to hanging a banner.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Wish I could swear on DBR to show excitement. Was at game. I broke my chair jumpin so hard in reaction to 3pt shot. That mofo is for real.

Go Duke!!!

FYI: ND fans are super annoying. UNC fans are better (I know, right...)

[BD80]

NNNnnooooooooooooo .... YYESSSS!

Is it just me, or did his shooting form look better (more conventional) on that shot than on any other shot he has taken this year?

He had to take the shot at that point in the possession, and he did it without hesitation. He is a true champion, he has adjusted his role to allow others to step forward, and yet was ready to answer the call.

[Ballboy1998]

Wish I could swear on DBR to show excitement. Was at game. I broke my chair jumpin so hard in reaction to 3pt shot. That mofo is for real.

Go Duke!!!

FYI: ND fans are super annoying. UNC fans are better (I know, right...)

While I would not go that far, I was at the Duke loss to ND in the ACC Tournament last year in DC, and I'm glad for some vengeance.

[jacone21]

He is a true champion, he has adjusted his role to allow others to step forward, and yet was ready to answer the call.

Quoted for emphasis. Y'all read that again.

[MaxAMillion]

I couldn't be happier for Matt. People forget that these players hurt more than anyone when they don't do well. Matt gets abused on different Duke message boards, but he is a leader and a good defender. He has a knack for making great plays at key times. I will always remember all the good he did for Duke.

[Furniture]

He played big minutes tonight!!

[accfanfrom1970]

Chills when that 3 went in....just chills. Classy guy,
Tough competitor. Happy for Matt.

[Utley]

How he had the guts to take that shot - I will never know. Wow! This really was Redemption Week!

[uh_no]

Chills when that 3 went in...just chills. Classy guy,
Tough competitor. Happy for Matt.


bang

I like how jay wright puts it.

[moonpie23]

way to go, yo!!!

[dukefan_828]

The guy is a champion, not even going to lie i was questioning as to why K left G on the bench in favor of Matt. I know what Matt brings to the table defensively but we were coming out of a Timeout and had the ball... Boy coach K shows why he's the Goat and were on a forum!! Love our team and what does it say about Matt to not be afraid to take the big shot when he hadn't shot all night, lets never forget how huge he was offensively during that magical 2015 run. Awesome moment for such a selfless guy

[ChrisP]

I just had a feeling that Matt Jones would make a key basket for us when we needed it most. Boy, did he ever!!!! And he made some great plays afterward, too like finding Jayson on that key And1 a moment later. Much love for Matt Jones and I hope the posters here who've been bashing him realize how foolish they've been. Dude plays his butt off and gives it his all and...somehow, someway, it pays off!

[kako]

Jones is the 5th option, and he knows it. His role is leadership, defense and ball movement. But he's never been afraid to take the shot. And when the ball went to him, it was his shot to take. Reminded me of the Gonzaga game in the 2015 title run. He hit big shots there, too. So I'd imagine he has the confidence to take them when they come to him. And tonight, like in 2015, Duke needed it.

[BlueDevilBrowns]

Coach K said it best in the post game interview:

"Just be you. What you are is a Champion."

I've been as guilty as anyone in discussing all the things Matt Jones isn't.

But tonight, Matt showed the world what he is... A true Champion.

[jv001]

NNNnnooooooooooooo ... YYESSSS!

Is it just me, or did his shooting form look better (more conventional) on that shot than on any other shot he has taken this year?
He had to take the shot at that point in the possession, and he did it without hesitation. He is a true champion, he has adjusted his role to allow others to step forward, and yet was ready to answer the call.

I posted the same thing on the game thread. He took his left hand off the ball and shot an old fashion one handed push shot. However he did get some lift on this one because the defender was closing fast. GoDuke!

[BullBlue]

I was watching the game at my son's house. About 10 seconds before Matt took that shot, my son said "Watch Matt Jones hit a 3 at the buzzer to win this game". Well, it wasn't right at the buzzer, but it sure felt like it won the game.
BTW, my son's name is Matt.

[WWBD]

Coach K said it best in the post game interview:

"Just be you. What you are is a Champion."

I've been as guilty as anyone in discussing all the things Matt Jones isn't.

But tonight, Matt showed the world what he is... A true Champion.

Ok, he made one shot.
I'm high on this one too, but let's settle down.

[-jk]

Ok, he made one shot.
I'm high on this one too, but let's settle down.

Some of our best player's accomplishments aren't measured by shots. But some shots count best, too.

Over his career, Matt's accomplishments are "the best", and all over the place...

-jk

[Olympic Fan]

Ok, he made one shot.
I'm high on this one too, but let's settle down.

Not necessarily directed at you WWBS, but I have been amazed at the negative perception of Matt by many posters most of the season -- and especially in the last few games as his shooting has slumped. But also after games where he was spectacularly good ... yet there are posters who go out of their way to denigrate his contributions.

It's as if some of you can only judge him by his shooting ... but that's the last reason K has him on the court.

Tonight, Matt played 31 minutes. He had four rebounds, two assists and three steals. He didn't have a turnover and he committed one foul. He missed one shot. He's the best perimeter defender we have.

THAT'S a Matt Jones game ... the clinching 3 was just gravy.

This guy was a starter and a key player on a national championship team. He's not a consistent shooter or scorer, but he's been one of our best defenders and one of our most important players for the last three years. He deserves more a lot respect that he often gets on what is supposed to be a Duke board.

And as long as I'm ranting about some of the fair weather fans on this board, go back and read the postgame comments about Grayson after the Clemson game. Some of you should be ashamed of yourselves.

Pardon me, but I'm not going to settle down. Matt played GREAT -- before his "one shot"

[bleedingblue88]

Not necessarily directed at you WWBS, but I have been amazed at the negative perception of Matt by many posters most of the season -- and especially in the last few games as his shooting has slumped. But also after games where he was spectacularly good ... yet there are posters who go out of their way to denigrate his contributions.

It's as if some of you can only judge him by his shooting ... but that's the last reason K has him on the court.

Tonight, Matt played 31 minutes. He had four rebounds, two assists and three steals. He didn't have a turnover and he committed one foul. He missed one shot. He's the best perimeter defender we have.

THAT'S a Matt Jones game ... the clinching 3 was just gravy.

This guy was a starter and a key player on a national championship team. He's not a consistent shooter or scorer, but he's been one of our best defenders and one of our most important players for the last three years. He deserves more a lot respect that he often gets on what is supposed to be a Duke board.

And as long as I'm ranting about some of the fair weather fans on this board, go back and read the postgame comments about Grayson after the Clemson game. Some of you should be ashamed of yourselves.

Pardon me, but I'm not going to settle down. Matt played GREAT -- before his "one shot"

I give him all the credit in the world today for hitting that dagger shot and the Tatum in-bound at the end, Matt played well today, but realize we are so high on that shot because he's just been so inept offensively that hitting that 3 pointer was a great surprise.

This doesn't need to be a criticism-free message board, Matt has gotten a lot of criticism this year from Duke fans all over (from me included, in fact some mod suspended me for saying he's regressed a few games ago if you can believe that lol). The criticism is justified IMO, he's been that offensively terrible this year. Let's remember he came recruited as an offensitve threat and a shooter, and by any measurement, it's a college career that's been largely disappointing in that regard. What has been a great surprise is his defense, which has been excellent.

I'll stop my mini rant for now. In summary, I think we have the right to praise his defense but at the same time knock him for his offense. Just like I can say Kennard is an offensive genius, but not a good defender. We don't need to go out of our way to shut down all types of criticism.

[BandAlum83]

Ok, he made one shot.
I'm high on this one too, but let's settle down.

No, let's not settle down.

[subzero02]

Ok, he made one shot.
I'm high on this one too, but let's settle down.

He also made an awesome pass to Tatum for an and 1 dunk ... stand up and cheer

[Devilwin]

The guy is a champion, not even going to lie i was questioning as to why K left G on the bench in favor of Matt. I know what Matt brings to the table defensively but we were coming out of a Timeout and had the ball... Boy coach K shows why he's the Goat and were on a forum!! Love our team and what does it say about Matt to not be afraid to take the big shot when he hadn't shot all night, lets never forget how huge he was offensively during that magical 2015 run. Awesome moment for such a selfless guy

Matt has been my guy all year. Shooting slump aside, he's the best defender we've had since Billy King. He was in for Grayson because Grayson was being sloppy with the ball, just wasn't his night, I guess. Matt's shot and pass to Jayson were the back breakers. After what he's been through lately, this was a bit of redemption.
Remember the second half of the Miami game in Cameron? Matt led the charge, didn't he? Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy. But of course this was a team win, another gutsy performance by our fellas. Matt got my vote. Well deserved...

[MChambers]

Matt has been my guy all year. Shooting slump aside, he's the best defender we've had since Billy King. He was in for Grayson because Grayson was being sloppy with the ball, just wasn't his night, I guess. Matt's shot and pass to Jayson were the back breakers. After what he's been through lately, this was a bit of redemption.
Remember the second half of the Miami game in Cameron? Matt led the charge, didn't he? Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy. But of course this was a team win, another gutsy performance by our fellas. Matt got my vote. Well deserved...

I love Matt's defense, but Shane Battier and Grant Hill say hello.

[Devilwin]

They were great defenders as well. But neither had Matt's "sneaky" quickness going after steals. I'll take Matt over either of those greats any day, from a point of pure defense.

[chriso]

I just had a feeling that Matt Jones would make a key basket for us when we needed it most. Boy, did he ever!!!! And he made some great plays afterward, too like finding Jayson on that key And1 a moment later. Much love for Matt Jones and I hope the posters here who've been bashing him realize how foolish they've been. Dude plays his butt off and gives it his all and...somehow, someway, it pays off!

I just wanted to thank Matt and Amile for everything they have done. They are both class acts and are everything that Duke represents. Well done and nice to see Matt have his moment!

[Devilwin]

I just wanted to thank Matt and Amile for everything they have done. They are both class acts and are everything that Duke represents. Well done and nice to see Matt have his moment!
Amen. But the saga continues.

[Troublemaker]

They were great defenders as well. But neither had Matt's "sneaky" quickness going after steals. I'll take Matt over either of those greats any day, from a point of pure defense.

Shane and Grant were special defenders, a level beyond great. Matt's a great wing defender, but we've had some better defenders than him over the years. (Even as recently as 2015 with Justise, imo, and I'd probably even take Quinn Cook's final ~10 games of defense).

Great job by Matt holding Vasturia in check yesterday. Big, bad, athletic Florida St gave up 18 to Vasturia, and Duke held him to 5.

Matt's defense has been there all season for us, starting with the Blue-White game in which he shut down Grayson. Very happy for him that he made the ACC All-Defensive team. That will now always be a part of media guides and his profile when you go to GoDuke. (Well, after they update the profiles and media guides after the season).

[chriso]

Amen. But the saga continues.
Yes. Matt is a role model of perseverance and persistence. We'll need that in the tourney.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

He also made an awesome pass to Tatum for an and 1 dunk ... stand up and cheer

And forces a turnover

[NashvilleDevil]

I give him all the credit in the world today for hitting that dagger shot and the Tatum in-bound at the end, Matt played well today, but realize we are so high on that shot because he's just been so inept offensively that hitting that 3 pointer was a great surprise.

This doesn't need to be a criticism-free message board, Matt has gotten a lot of criticism this year from Duke fans all over (from me included, in fact some mod suspended me for saying he's regressed a few games ago if you can believe that lol). The criticism is justified IMO, he's been that offensively terrible this year. Let's remember he came recruited as an offensitve threat and a shooter, and by any measurement, it's a college career that's been largely disappointing in that regard. What has been a great surprise is his defense, which has been excellent.

I'll stop my mini rant for now. In summary, I think we have the right to praise his defense but at the same time knock him for his offense. Just like I can say Kennard is an offensive genius, but not a good defender. We don't need to go out of our way to shut down all types of criticism.

You're right but after he hit the shot to win Duke the ACC title is not the time.

[Indoor66]

I give him all the credit in the world today for hitting that dagger shot and the Tatum in-bound at the end, Matt played well today, but realize we are so high on that shot because he's just been so inept offensively that hitting that 3 pointer was a great surprise.

This doesn't need to be a criticism-free message board, Matt has gotten a lot of criticism this year from Duke fans all over (from me included, in fact some mod suspended me for saying he's regressed a few games ago if you can believe that lol). The criticism is justified IMO, he's been that offensively terrible this year. Let's remember he came recruited as an offensitve threat and a shooter, and by any measurement, it's a college career that's been largely disappointing in that regard. What has been a great surprise is his defense, which has been excellent.

I'll stop my mini rant for now. In summary, I think we have the right to praise his defense but at the same time knock him for his offense. Just like I can say Kennard is an offensive genius, but not a good defender. We don't need to go out of our way to shut down all types of criticism.

I can't make a negative rating to your post because I have to spread them around. This post is so far over the top it deserves to be removed. Matt has the confidence of his teammates, his coaches and most of the fans. Yet you come here and attempt to place him in your box to fit your narrative. No one is recruited to solely play offense or defense. They are recruited to play basketball in a manner that best helps the team to win. Matt has been superior at that quality. He is a National Champion and an ACC Champion. How many can claim that? He starts and plays 30+ minutes and has for several years. Your evaluation is so meaningless as to be completely insulting. Please take it elsewhere.

[camion]

I can't make a negative rating to your post because I have to spread them around. This post is so far over the top it deserves to be removed. Matt has the confidence of his teammates, his coaches and most of the fans. Yet you come here and attempt to place him in your box to fit your narrative. No one is recruited to solely play offense or defense. They are recruited to play basketball in a manner that best helps the team to win. Matt has been superior at that quality. He is a National Champion and an ACC Champion. How many can claim that? He starts and plays 30+ minutes and has for several years. Your evaluation is so meaningless as to be completely insulting. Please take it elsewhere.

Gosh, that's pretty harsh. And well stated.

[WillJ]

How about we just agree on this: Matt has been a great player (especially on defense) and teammate, and it's sweet that his offensive success last night was so critical to our success.

[WVDUKEFAN]

I must admit, I cringed when he released that shot. In all fairness, he was a highly touted shooter when he was recruited. He has been at times, too. He's made some big shots throughout the season. Regardless, win as a team and lose as a team. I can't express how proud I am of this group of kids.

[OZ]

How about we just agree on this: Matt has been a great player (especially on defense) and teammate, and it's sweet that his offensive success last night was so critical to our success.

When you are the person and teammate Matt is at some point karma is going to smile on you. No one deserved it more. It was a great scene last night, when in the midst of the blue and while confetti that covered the floor and continued to swirl, Coach K embraced Matt and held on - perhaps, each understanding that this was a moment that neither wanted to pass.

[Emerrick]

Matt is definitely one of the unsung heroes of the team. He isn't flashy, but his defense wins us games. His play was remarkable last night. Creating turnovers, shutting down their shooters and what a great 3 to seal the game. Pretty darn happy for him!

[Indoor66]

I must admit, I cringed when he released that shot. In all fairness, he was a highly touted shooter when he was recruited. He has been at times, too. He's made some big shots throughout the season. Regardless, win as a team and lose as a team. I can't express how proud I am of this group of kids.

...And Amile Jefferson was the number one player in Philadelphia and a huge high school scorer when he was recruited. Everyone Duke recruits was a top flight scorer in high school. The college game is different and, after that, the pro game is different. The skill that K seeks and recruits, beyond scoring ability, is the ability to add to the team. That is more important than any one skill. Matt adds to the team. The TEAM is better when he plays. Duke wins when the TEAM is better. Individual skills and statistics are secondary. If they are not, the recruit does not belong at Duke (and probably will not come in the first place.)

[WVDUKEFAN]

...And Amile Jefferson was the number one player in Philadelphia and a huge high school scorer when he was recruited. Everyone Duke recruits was a top flight scorer in high school. The college game is different and, after that, the pro game is different. The skill that K seeks and recruits, beyond scoring ability, is the ability to add to the team. That is more important than any one skill. Matt adds to the team. The TEAM is better when he plays. Duke wins when the TEAM is better. Individual skills and statistics are secondary. If they are not, the recruit does not belong at Duke (and probably will not come in the first place.)

I agree with everything you said and praise you for pointing it out.

[killerleft]

I give him all the credit in the world today for hitting that dagger shot and the Tatum in-bound at the end, Matt played well today, but realize we are so high on that shot because he's just been so inept offensively that hitting that 3 pointer was a great surprise.

This doesn't need to be a criticism-free message board, Matt has gotten a lot of criticism this year from Duke fans all over (from me included, in fact some mod suspended me for saying he's regressed a few games ago if you can believe that lol). The criticism is justified IMO, he's been that offensively terrible this year. Let's remember he came recruited as an offensitve threat and a shooter, and by any measurement, it's a college career that's been largely disappointing in that regard. What has been a great surprise is his defense, which has been excellent.

I'll stop my mini rant for now. In summary, I think we have the right to praise his defense but at the same time knock him for his offense. Just like I can say Kennard is an offensive genius, but not a good defender. We don't need to go out of our way to shut down all types of criticism.

This is not a thread for bashing our hero. But, definitely, you go ahead and interject whatever you can to try and get us on an even keel. Why should we let an ACC Championship get in the way of your mini-rant?:rolleyes:

[killerleft]

I must admit, I cringed when he released that shot. In all fairness, he was a highly touted shooter when he was recruited. He has been at times, too. He's made some big shots throughout the season. Regardless, win as a team and lose as a team. I can't express how proud I am of this group of kids.

I was hoping that Frank Jackson would be open in the corner for the big three-ball. But when the freshman Jayson Tatum finally put to rest the sad rants we've had about his so-called selfishness by making that pass to the wide open Matt Jones, I was ready to jump off the couch and hoot.

And so it goes.


HOOT!!!!

[BandAlum83]

I must admit, I cringed when he released that shot. In all fairness, he was a highly touted shooter when he was recruited. He has been at times, too. He's made some big shots throughout the season. Regardless, win as a team and lose as a team. I can't express how proud I am of this group of kids.

I didn't cringe at all. I was so glad he didn't hesitate as the shot clock hit 5. There wasn't much time for passing, and I'd rather he shoot than try to drive.

I was also impressed with Tatum finding the open man instead of forcing something on the inside. That was an example of how much his decision making has improved.

[Channing]

I have been as critical of Matt as anyone. That said I noticed something I hadn't noticed before and don't know if it is recent or not, so I went back to some of the recent past games. Has Matt done something to his fingers? Two of them are taped and he constantly looks to be favoring them. That would certainly be an explanation for why a 38-40% 3pt shooter suddenly went stone cold.

We are really good, and when Matt is keeping the D honest by making shots we are spectacular. Hopefully that huge shot he did gave him the boost of confidence to just react on offense rather than think about the shot. We know he can do it, he is done it before, and that is largely where my frustrations came from. I look forward to seeing Miami Matt help lead this team offensively in addition to his defense!

PS loved seeing the defensive fortitude of Matt and FJ on the court together. Matt didn't have to play the quickest guard and was able to do a number on vasturia

[NYBri]

It all happened so fast and Matt did exactly what the coaches want everyone on that team to do. When the play falls in your lap and the shot is there...take it.

Matt did and it was the perfect ending to a perfect 4 days. If we had written the 4 day scenario like that with Matt's trey as the icing, we couldn't have sold it in Hollywood. :cool:

[killerleft]

I have been as critical of Matt as anyone. That said I noticed something I hadn't noticed before and don't know if it is recent or not, so I went back to some of the recent past games. Has Matt done something to his fingers? Two of them are taped and he constantly looks to be favoring them. That would certainly be an explanation for why a 38-40% 3pt shooter suddenly went stone cold.

We are really good, and when Matt is keeping the D honest by making shots we are spectacular. Hopefully that huge shot he did gave him the boost of confidence to just react on offense rather than think about the shot. We know he can do it, he is done it before, and that is largely where my frustrations came from. I look forward to seeing Miami Matt help lead this team offensively in addition to his defense!

PS loved seeing the defensive fortitude of Matt and FJ on the court together. Matt didn't have to play the quickest guard and was able to do a number on vasturia

I've noticed him seeming to cradle that hand, also. Tried to spork.:)

[TKG]

Earlier this season Coack K put it best: "Matt Jones is a stud!"

[tbyers11]

I have been as critical of Matt as anyone. That said I noticed something I hadn't noticed before and don't know if it is recent or not, so I went back to some of the recent past games. Has Matt done something to his fingers? Two of them are taped and he constantly looks to be favoring them. That would certainly be an explanation for why a 38-40% 3pt shooter suddenly went stone cold.

We are really good, and when Matt is keeping the D honest by making shots we are spectacular. Hopefully that huge shot he did gave him the boost of confidence to just react on offense rather than think about the shot. We know he can do it, he is done it before, and that is largely where my frustrations came from. I look forward to seeing Miami Matt help lead this team offensively in addition to his defense!

PS loved seeing the defensive fortitude of Matt and FJ on the court together. Matt didn't have to play the quickest guard and was able to do a number on vasturia

Pretty sure he hurt that hand in the second half of the FSU game. He came over to the bench at a timeout holding his hand and grimacing.

[Son of Jarhead]

Has Matt done something to his fingers? Two of them are taped and he constantly looks to be favoring them. That would certainly be an explanation for why a 38-40% 3pt shooter suddenly went stone cold.

I had noticed that about Matt's fingers, too. It appears that he has a velcro strap binding two fingers together, likely to provide stability to an injured finger, a severe jam or bone chip maybe. He's been wearing it for several games lately, maybe for a couple weeks now. He seems to adjust it with nearly every stoppage of play. Could certainly explain any shooting slump.

--When I played, I bet I had two fingers taped together more often than not, for jams or bone chips from getting my hands into passing lanes. I played nearly an entire season with a splint on my right middle finger (which came in handy for waving at some of my opponents, and the odd ref or two). My teammates teased that I shot better WITH the splint! I did not.--

I am so grateful for players like Matt. Every team needs guys willing to do all the little things, who are great team players and willing to sacrifice for the good of the team. Matt is damn good defender and leader, a heady player who almost always seems to be in the right spot at the right time. He's a winner and a Champion. I love seeing that big smile after he makes a great play like that huge 3-pointer last night. Way to go, Matt!!

[InSpades]

Matt has been my guy all year. Shooting slump aside, he's the best defender we've had since Billy King. He was in for Grayson because Grayson was being sloppy with the ball, just wasn't his night, I guess. Matt's shot and pass to Jayson were the back breakers. After what he's been through lately, this was a bit of redemption.
Remember the second half of the Miami game in Cameron? Matt led the charge, didn't he? Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy. But of course this was a team win, another gutsy performance by our fellas. Matt got my vote. Well deserved...

How many national defensive players of the year have we had since Billy King?

Shelden Williams? Shane Battier? Grant Hill? Wojo? Shane and Shelden won national defensive player of the year more than once. Matt will never win conference defensive player of the year.

Everyone talks about intangibles on defense... but there are intangibles on offense too. When Luke is a huge threat it makes things easier on everyone else on the court because the defense focuses extra on Luke. When Matt is afraid to shoot it makes it harder on everyone else. Teams double off Matt, teams put their worst perimeter defender on Matt (see Matt Farrell in the ND game). These things have an impact too.

Matt played better against ND, he had a few good passes, he got a couple of nice rebounds and of course he hit the huge shot at the end. Let's not go overboard though. Matt is a liability on the offensive end right now and hopefully he regains his shooting stroke so that is no longer true. Matt is going to play anywhere from 20 to 30 minutes and we need the best out of him these last 3 weeks.

[Devilwin]

How many national defensive players of the year have we had since Billy King?

Shelden Williams? Shane Battier? Grant Hill? Wojo? Shane and Shelden won national defensive player of the year more than once. Matt will never win conference defensive player of the year.

Everyone talks about intangibles on defense... but there are intangibles on offense too. When Luke is a huge threat it makes things easier on everyone else on the court because the defense focuses extra on Luke. When Matt is afraid to shoot it makes it harder on everyone else. Teams double off Matt, teams put their worst perimeter defender on Matt (see Matt Farrell in the ND game). These things have an impact too.

Matt played better against ND, he had a few good passes, he got a couple of nice rebounds and of course he hit the huge shot at the end. Let's not go overboard though. Matt is a liability on the offensive end right now and hopefully he regains his shooting stroke so that is no longer true. Matt is going to play anywhere from 20 to 30 minutes and we need the best out of him these last 3 weeks.

Yeah, I see your point. But there's no question he's our best defender right now. He is certainly capable of big offensive outputs (see the Miami rally he led on 1/21/17) and maybe he can again. I just like his heart, and Amile as well. We need those guys to produce if we are to win it all.
We can make the deep run if, and only if, we can stop so much guard penetration, but I admit we looked a bit better in the ND game.

And another thing. Sometimes people get caught up in the moment, and say something we ascertain as "negative". Now I am the first to admit I have been negative at times, and wish I hadn't said something seconds after posting it. I respect everyone's opinions however, and let's face it, this team has been a roller coaster at times this year. Sometimes we play very sloppy, and the defense wasn't up to par. So they were not perfect. But it looks like now they have it together now, and we ought to be enjoying this ACCT title and not ripping into each other for a comment like a pack of hyenas on a wildebeest. As long as they don't go overboard and use profane language or say things like "Matt ought to benched forever, he's a no talent bum", you know, something horrible about a player.
When I pronounced Matt the best defender since Billy King, there were those that disagreed, and they were probably correct, it's the old "caught up in the moment" thing. Sometimes it's the little things that makes us pick a player as our favorite. Matt has the heart of a lion, and I like the way the net "swooshes" when he does hit a three. lol
We are blessed to have some very knowledgeable posters here, and I for one appreciate their input, even if I don't totally agree with all they said. I looked into IC for example, and found nothing but whining brats (not surprised). Makes you appreciate DBR even more.
Anyway, that's all I got. Chastising someone for bad posts is ok, but I feel it's a job best left to the moderators, who do an excellent job in that arena.
Let's try to pull together and enjoy what our boys have done, and can do in the future.

[Indoor66]

Devil man, your post is a testament to pausing and rereading a post before hitting the "Submit Reply" button. Especially if we are upset or emotional.

[Devilwin]

Devil man, your post is a testament to pausing and rereading a post before hitting the "Submit Reply" button. Especially if we are upset or emotional.

Thank you...I think, lol...:cool:

[killerleft]

How many national defensive players of the year have we had since Billy King?

Shelden Williams? Shane Battier? Grant Hill? Wojo? Shane and Shelden won national defensive player of the year more than once. Matt will never win conference defensive player of the year.

Everyone talks about intangibles on defense... but there are intangibles on offense too. When Luke is a huge threat it makes things easier on everyone else on the court because the defense focuses extra on Luke. When Matt is afraid to shoot it makes it harder on everyone else. Teams double off Matt, teams put their worst perimeter defender on Matt (see Matt Farrell in the ND game). These things have an impact too.
Matt played better against ND, he had a few good passes, he got a couple of nice rebounds and of course he hit the huge shot at the end. Let's not go overboard though. Matt is a liability on the offensive end right now and hopefully he regains his shooting stroke so that is no longer true. Matt is going to play anywhere from 20 to 30 minutes and we need the best out of him these last 3 weeks.

You make some good points, and I really don't disagree. But Jayson probably "knew" Matt would be open if the drive wasn't there, and the result was highly satisfactory. That's the upside of having a senior hiding in a phone booth in plain sight!

[BandAlum83]

How many national defensive players of the year have we had since Billy King?

Shelden Williams? Shane Battier? Grant Hill? Wojo? Shane and Shelden won national defensive player of the year more than once. Matt will never win conference defensive player of the year.

Everyone talks about intangibles on defense... but there are intangibles on offense too. When Luke is a huge threat it makes things easier on everyone else on the court because the defense focuses extra on Luke. When Matt is afraid to shoot it makes it harder on everyone else. Teams double off Matt, teams put their worst perimeter defender on Matt (see Matt Farrell in the ND game). These things have an impact too.

Matt played better against ND, he had a few good passes, he got a couple of nice rebounds and of course he hit the huge shot at the end. Let's not go overboard though. Matt is a liability on the offensive end right now and hopefully he regains his shooting stroke so that is no longer true. Matt is going to play anywhere from 20 to 30 minutes and we need the best out of him these last 3 weeks.

I posted this in a thread about an article on Jayson Tatum, but it is appropriate to post it here as well:

Ruminate on this quote from the article:


“When I drove, Matt called my name,” Tatum said, recalling the play, “and as soon as I passed it to him I knew it was going to be a bucket.”

Not only was Matt "willing" and "ready" to take the shot, he WANTED the ball in that situation. Doesn't seem to me he is afraid to shoot. And I'm fine if the opposition cheats off Matt. They will get burned. (Witness ND)

[kAzE]

Maybe Matt was just saving all his big shots for the NCAAT . . .

I guess he decided to let one of them be in the ACC Championship game. We needed that one.

All kidding aside, I'm confident about Matt's shot, but that's not going to scare other teams when they are defending him. He's gotta hit a couple early in games to keep them honest. When we had the Frank/Grayson/Luke/Jayson/Amile lineup on the floor, that's the easiest I've seen us get points against UNC in all 3 of our games. They had no chance to stop that.

[InSpades]

Not only was Matt "willing" and "ready" to take the shot, he WANTED the ball in that situation. Doesn't seem to me he is afraid to shoot. And I'm fine if the opposition cheats off Matt. They will get burned. (Witness ND)

You're kidding right... he played 30+ minutes and took 2 shots. 1 of them he was left completely open and the other he got the ball w/ 5 seconds on the shot clock.

They got burned cheating off Matt because he went 1 for 2 from 3? How many baskets did they prevent by cheating off of Matt?

[Indoor66]

You're kidding right... he played 30+ minutes and took 2 shots. 1 of them he was left completely open and the other he got the ball w/ 5 seconds on the shot clock.

They got burned cheating off Matt because he went 1 for 2 from 3? How many baskets did they prevent by cheating off of Matt?

And your complaint?

[Steven43]

FYI: ND fans are super annoying. UNC fans are better (I know, right...)
How are ND fans annoying? How could they possibly be worse than UNC fans? You've got an uphill battle convincing us on this one.

[Steven43]

You're kidding right... he played 30+ minutes and took 2 shots. 1 of them he was left completely open and the other he got the ball w/ 5 seconds on the shot clock.

They got burned cheating off Matt because he went 1 for 2 from 3? How many baskets did they prevent by cheating off of Matt?

Personally I LOVED Matt not shooting. If it's true that the cheating off of Matt because he is not perceived as a threat is somehow a negative for Duke, how then were the Devils able to go on a historic run that had never been done before? It seems the positives for Duke from Matt not shooting outweigh the negatives resulting from cheating off of him. I like Matt shooting two or theee times per game and giving all those extra shots to others. It's a winning formula.

[InSpades]

Personally I LOVED Matt not shooting. If it's true that the cheating off of Matt because he is not perceived as a threat is somehow a negative for Duke, how then were the Devils able to go on a historic run that had never been done before? It seems the positives for Duke from Matt not shooting outweigh the negatives resulting from cheating off of him. I like Matt shooting two or theee times per game and giving all those extra shots to others. It's a winning formula.

Grayson had 6 turnovers in the final game (in 21 minutes). Was that a positive for Duke? If so many turnovers in such a small period of time were somehow a negative for Duke, how then were they able to win that final?

Maybe if Matt was an offensive threat then Duke wins by more... Do you think everything in the final happened optimally for Duke to win? We can't criticize anything that happened because they won?

[uh_no]

Grayson had 6 turnovers in the final game (in 21 minutes). Was that a positive for Duke? If so many turnovers in such a small period of time were somehow a negative for Duke, how then were they able to win that final?

Maybe if Matt was an offensive threat then Duke wins by more... Do you think everything in the final happened optimally for Duke to win? We can't criticize anything that happened because they won?

This is all a straw man.

you argued that ND didn't get burned by laying off of matt. They laid off of matt, and matt took a shot that all but won the game. KP says that shot took duke from ~75% win to ~95% win....if that's not getting burned, then I don't know what is.

Is the "burn" amplified by the game situation? absolutely...but such is the nature of sport.

[GGLC]

Grayson had 6 turnovers in the final game (in 21 minutes). Was that a positive for Duke? If so many turnovers in such a small period of time were somehow a negative for Duke, how then were they able to win that final?

Maybe if Matt was an offensive threat then Duke wins by more... Do you think everything in the final happened optimally for Duke to win? We can't criticize anything that happened because they won?

First rule of holes: when you're in one, stop digging.

Matt has always been a streaky shooter and he's especially slumped of late with his hurt fingers, but you guys are trying to make him out to be a complete offensive zero when that isn't an accurate generalization. Ask Gonzaga in 2015 about Matt's offense. How about last year when he made 2.2 three-pointers per game at a better than 40 percent clip? Stop trashing the guy just because he's gone cold lately -- especially in a thread celebrating how he won the fricking ACC championship for us! I love Matt. His defense, his leadership, and yes, the fact that he knows his role as a tertiary offensive option this season and is smart enough to take the opportunities that come to him in the flow of the game. He's a senior who has given his all for this school, and that effort has helped us win a national championship and any number of other games. He consistently holds his man to well below his season average, providing incredible value to the team even when his shot isn't dropping. I don't understand why Duke fans feel the need to bash the guy. It makes me really sad.

[Steven43]

Grayson had 6 turnovers in the final game (in 21 minutes). Was that a positive for Duke? If so many turnovers in such a small period of time were somehow a negative for Duke, how then were they able to win that final?

Maybe if Matt was an offensive threat then Duke wins by more... Do you think everything in the final happened optimally for Duke to win? We can't criticize anything that happened because they won?
Not sure where you're going with this. I was simply trying to say that I like Matt shooting less, not more. I think Matt always has at least three teammates, and often four, on the floor with him who are more of an offensive threat than he and I would rather one of them take the shot 95% of the time.

I like a LOT of what Matt brings to the team--toughness, solid defense, leadership, experience, enthusiasm, dedication, etc. I just prefer the majority of the regular rotation players to shoot before Matt. That is not a putdown of Matt, but rather a compliment to his teammates, several of whom are among the most gifted players on offense in all of college basketball.

[uh_no]

I don't understand why Duke fans feel the need to bash the guy.

Because people don't understand how anyone can be of value if they're not putting up points/TDs/HRs, etc.

[BandAlum83]

This is all a straw man.

you argued that ND didn't get burned by laying off of matt. They laid off of matt, and matt took a shot that all but won the game. KP says that shot took duke from ~75% win to ~95% win...if that's not getting burned, then I don't know what is.

Is the "burn" amplified by the game situation? absolutely...but such is the nature of sport.

And.....Matt is not "afraid" to shoot. That was my main point.

[uh_no]

And...Matt is not "afraid" to shoot. That was my main point.

I don't even understand how one can argue against that. he's taken open threes when they come to him all year long. His decrease in shots is perfectly in line with his reduced role in the offense relative to last year.

[Stray Gator]

Grayson had 6 turnovers in the final game (in 21 minutes). Was that a positive for Duke? If so many turnovers in such a small period of time were somehow a negative for Duke, how then were they able to win that final?

Maybe if Matt was an offensive threat then Duke wins by more... Do you think everything in the final happened optimally for Duke to win? We can't criticize anything that happened because they won?

What difference would it make if Duke had won by more? I don't believe that anyone is suggesting that fans "can't criticize anything that happened because they won"; but if the purpose of the criticism is merely to bemoan the fact that they could have won by a larger margin, it seems less like constructive criticism than pointless negativity.

Sometimes I think fans either forget or fail to appreciate that these are 18-22 year old college students playing a basketball game. Even under the best of circumstances, players will miss shots and make turnovers and commit fouls; but the tendency to make those kinds of "mistakes" naturally increases when the players are subject to the extraordinary levels of fatigue and pressure that were present during the ACC Championship Game against Notre Dame. It took positive contributions from every player to win this game and bring home a championship. For some of us, the fact that the team collectively fought through so much adversity to provide us this opportunity to celebrate makes criticism of an individual player's perceived shortcomings appear unappreciative and unseemly.

[InSpades]

This is all a straw man.

you argued that ND didn't get burned by laying off of matt. They laid off of matt, and matt took a shot that all but won the game. KP says that shot took duke from ~75% win to ~95% win...if that's not getting burned, then I don't know what is.

Is the "burn" amplified by the game situation? absolutely...but such is the nature of sport.

They didn't get burned at all. They cheated off him all game and got "burnt" for 3 points on 2 shots taken. If that's getting burned... we should all be so lucky.

Just because the shot came at a crucial time doesn't mean they weren't right to cheat off him the entire game.

If you want to belittle my argument you might want to come up with a better one of your own.

[ricks68]

They didn't get burned at all. They cheated off him all game and got "burnt" for 3 points on 2 shots taken. If that's getting burned... we should all be so lucky.

Just because the shot came at a crucial time doesn't mean they weren't right to cheat off him the entire game.

If you want to belittle my argument you might want to come up with a better one of your own.

IMHO I think they got burned because they left him open because they didn't think he would take the shot, even if he was open, let alone make it. It is as simple as that. Matt's offensive production is down because he constantly defers to our players that he thinks are better at scoring given each particular situation. If he is open and able to square up properly, he takes the shot. If not, he passes it to someone he thinks can pull off a shot at that particular time. If time is really short, he will take the shot himself, as he knows it's up to him at that time. Face it, he knows what he is doing. If he didn't, Coach K wouldn't have him on the floor.

ricks

[InSpades]

IMHO I think they got burned because they left him open because they didn't think he would take the shot, even if he was open, let alone make it. It is as simple as that. Matt's offensive production is down because he constantly defers to our players that he thinks are better at scoring given each particular situation. If he is open and able to square up properly, he takes the shot. If not, he passes it to someone he thinks can pull off a shot at that particular time. If time is really short, he will take the shot himself, as he knows it's up to him at that time. Face it, he knows what he is doing. If he didn't, Coach K wouldn't have him on the floor.

ricks

K has no choice but to put Matt on the floor. All Matt needs to do to earn minutes is be more useful than Jack and Javin. When Grayson was playing well against UNC, Matt got only 21 minutes. When Grayson was struggling, Matt played 31 against Notre Dame. 20 to 30 minutes is about what Matt is going to get whether he's shooting well or not.

I broke Matt's shooting by game stretches (1st 9 games before Florida aka pre-Jayson Tatum, the next 21 games until before UNC at home and the last 5):
FGM FG FG% games min shots/gm shots/min min/gm
31 77 40% 9 355 8.6 0.22 39.4
54 137 39% 21 662 6.5 0.21 31.5
3 12 25% 5 135 2.4 0.09 27.0

So Matt was shooting 6.5 shots per game for the majority of the year... 8.6 before Jayson really got going. The last 5 he's down to 2.4 shots per game, which immediately followed a 3 game stretch where Matt went 1/6, 2/9 and 2/9.

Maybe afraid to shoot is not the right word but... tentative at the very least.

I think Duke would be much better off if Matt got back to being confident enough to take 6 shots per game. There was a time when he would really punish teams for helping off him and I hope he gets back to that in time for the upcoming games.

Matt is never going to be the offensive threat his other teammates are but if he's able to at least keep teams honest it will help Duke's offense out in immeasurable ways.

I don't mean to be negative but I do think a dose of reality isn't a bad thing. Matt isn't the best defensive player since Billy King. He's a good defender against the right kind of offensive player (not a super quick guard and not a guy who can take him into the post). The last 5 games he's been a liability on the offensive end of the floor. Hopefully he can turn that around. He's had some great stretches offensively in his career and if he has another one over the next 3 weeks he could be a 2-time national champ which would be awesome.

And now I'm done discussing Matt :).

[kAzE]

IMHO I think they got burned because they left him open because they didn't think he would take the shot, even if he was open, let alone make it. It is as simple as that. Matt's offensive production is down because he constantly defers to our players that he thinks are better at scoring given each particular situation. If he is open and able to square up properly, he takes the shot. If not, he passes it to someone he thinks can pull off a shot at that particular time. If time is really short, he will take the shot himself, as he knows it's up to him at that time. Face it, he knows what he is doing. If he didn't, Coach K wouldn't have him on the floor.

ricks

Very nicely put. I would add that the one downside of having such a crazy amount of offensive talent is that Matt doesn't need or want to take as many shots as he would have in the past. He's averaging just 6.4 shot attempts per game this year, compared to 8.7 attempts per game last year. He's a streaky shooter, but it's also harder to get a feel for your shot when you don't shoot very much.

Matt was shooting the ball much more efficiently at the start of the season, and his shooting slump seemed to coincide with the emergence of Jayson Tatum as the #1 option on offense. But it doesn't matter too much, I don't think anybody would argue we were a better team at the start of the year than right now.

[uh_no]

K has no choice but to put Matt on the floor. All Matt needs to do to earn minutes is be more useful than Jack and Javin.

I mean, he's not All-ACC defensive team or anything.

darn. if only we had someone else we could put out there to get out of the way for the other 4 guys who are the real core of this team.

[InSpades]

I mean, he's not All-ACC defensive team or anything.

darn. if only we had someone else we could put out there to get out of the way for the other 4 guys who are the real core of this team.

Is that sarcasm? I can't tell. You use it so subtly. Good job! Glad you could add something to the conversation.

[Brockt10]

Gut feeling says Matt is due. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he got hot during the tournament. I predict a sweet 16 "Thank god Matt shot well or we might be going home" game.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I broke Matt's shooting...

Well geez, why would you do that?

[duke96]

Gut feeling says Matt is due. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he got hot during the tournament. I predict a sweet 16 "Thank god Matt shot well or we might be going home" game.

Totally agree. And that would be incredibly enjoyable. Seems to me if Matt can get his shooting going a bit and Harry gives us consistent minutes we are a very, very tough out.

[NashvilleDevil]

Totally agree. And that would be incredibly enjoyable. Seems to me if Matt can get his shooting going a bit and Harry gives us consistent minutes we are a very, very tough out.

Matt was never going to be a top offensive option like Jon Scheyer but I keep coming back to Scheyer's shot against Ga Tech in the 2010 ACC final and how that helped him break out of a mini 3 point shooting slump. Maybe that shot against Notre Dame will get Matt going enough to make defenses honest but Matt being the ultimate team guy, and I believe one of the best glue guys that K has had, will do anything to help the team win.

[duketaylor]

"Matt was shooting the ball much more efficiently at the start of the season, and his shooting slump seemed to coincide with the emergence of Jayson Tatum as the #1 option on offense."

Not to mention he hurt a hand along the way and is playing with fingers taped together.
He's invaluable on the defensive end.

[CDu]

"Matt was shooting the ball much more efficiently at the start of the season, and his shooting slump seemed to coincide with the emergence of Jayson Tatum as the #1 option on offense."

Not to mention he hurt a hand along the way and is playing with fingers taped together.
He's invaluable on the defensive end.

Yeah, he appeared to do something to a finger or fingers in the FSU game in Cameron. Whether it was jamming, hyperextending them, or breaking it/them, I don't know.

[tbyers11]

You're kidding right... he played 30+ minutes and took 2 shots. 1 of them he was left completely open and the other he got the ball w/ 5 seconds on the shot clock.

They got burned cheating off Matt because he went 1 for 2 from 3? How many baskets did they prevent by cheating off of Matt?

That is a really good question. It is key to your argument and I don't think you have answered it clearly so far.

I didn't see ND prevent many baskets by cheating off Matt. If ND really cheated off Matt to the extent you have suggested wouldn't the other Duke players have passed the ball to Matt. I don't recall Matt passing up a single open 3. If Tatum will pass to Matt with the game on the line it is not like they were unwilling or were instructed not to.

I agree that our offense is more dynamic when Matt is on the bench. ND can also hide their weakest defender, Farrell, on him. ND is better able to defend us when Matt is in the game. However, I didn't see ND's defense play 5 on 4.5 when he was in the game.

[TKG]

A quick observation based on a review of one of the Duke Blue Planet videos of Matt' s three against ND: as he is clapping his hands and a smile breaks across his face, he appears to mutter "Here we go!". Here WE go ! To me that is just awesome. "We"...

[niveklaen]

A quick observation based on a review of one of the Duke Blue Planet videos of Matt' s three against ND: as he is clapping his hands and a smile breaks across his face, he appears to mutter "Here we go!". Here WE go ! To me that is just awesome. "We"...

I am pretty sure that Matt was just using the Royal We - still just thinking about himself, as is obvious from his style of play.

[CDu]

Jones has a per-40 +/- for the season of 11.5. The team's scoring margin is 10.8. That means the team has performed better with him on the floor than with him off it. Now, whether that is due to his contributions or not can't be proven. But the team clearly hasn't been more effective when he has been on the bench this season than when he has been in.

I would venture that the offense is less effective with Jones on the floor, but that the defense is more effective with him on the floor. I'm quite confident that this is the case, actually.

[grad_devil]

A quick observation based on a review of one of the Duke Blue Planet videos of Matt' s three against ND: as he is clapping his hands and a smile breaks across his face, he appears to mutter "Here we go!". Here WE go ! To me that is just awesome. "We"...


I am pretty sure that Matt was just using the Royal We - still just thinking about himself, as is obvious from his style of play.

I'm going to assume this is sarcasm...right?

It's early, and my sarcasm filter hasn't yet been finely tuned.

[niveklaen]

I'm going to assume this is sarcasm...right?

It's early, and my sarcasm filter hasn't yet been finely tuned.

You would be correct ;)

[Troublemaker]

I think Duke would be much better off if Matt got back to being confident enough to take 6 shots per game. There was a time when he would really punish teams for helping off him and I hope he gets back to that in time for the upcoming games.

Yep. I think no matter where one stands on Matt, we can all agree that hopefully the 3 against Notre Dame gives him confidence and opens up the lid on the basket for him.

If he can bang home 2 threes a game from here on out on 35-40% shooting, it will make Duke better.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Yep. I think no matter where one stands on Matt, we can all agree that hopefully the 3 against Notre Dame gives him confidence and opens up the lid on the basket for him.

If he can bang home 2 threes a game from here on out on 35-40% shooting, it will make Duke better.

35-40% on AGGREGATE. Cus Matt Jones either shoots 75% or 15%. And I'm very content with that.

Matt Jones 2017 is the Grayson Allen 2015: the catalyst that just makes us that much better! (Okay, bad analogy. But you get my point)

[TKG]

I'm going to assume this is sarcasm...right?

It's early, and my sarcasm filter hasn't yet been finely tuned.

I was genuinely moved by Matt's use of the word "we". The game is on the line, he hits a huge shot and yet he is all about the team. I was not being sarcastic. I posted because, to me, it shows Matt's team first attitude.

[kAzE]

35-40% on AGGREGATE. Cus Matt Jones either shoots 75% or 15%. And I'm very content with that.

Well, it is the NCAA tournament, so more consistent shooting would be nice. We need to go 6-0, and Matt Jones shooting 40% every game would really help with that.

[Spanarkel]

Yeah, he appeared to do something to a finger or fingers in the FSU game in Cameron. Whether it was jamming, hyperextending them, or breaking it/them, I don't know.

Yes, I remember Matt shaking his left hand in pain during the FSU game(at CIS) and putting the backside of his hand up to his mouth several times that game. He has actually had his left 4th-5th fingers taped together since the Notre Dame game on January 30th.

[Listen to Quants]

Because people don't understand how anyone can be of value if they're not putting up points/TDs/HRs, etc.

Hallelujah.

To push that point to breakage:

Variance on defense and offense in summary NCAA Men's BB stats (e.g. KenPom team D and team O) seem to be about the same, arguing that D and O abilities are equally important. What then is the difference between Matt (All ACC D; middling O) and Luke (All ACC O; middling D)?

[Devilwin]

First rule of holes: when you're in one, stop digging.

Matt has always been a streaky shooter and he's especially slumped of late with his hurt fingers, but you guys are trying to make him out to be a complete offensive zero when that isn't an accurate generalization. Ask Gonzaga in 2015 about Matt's offense. How about last year when he made 2.2 three-pointers per game at a better than 40 percent clip? Stop trashing the guy just because he's gone cold lately -- especially in a thread celebrating how he won the fricking ACC championship for us! I love Matt. His defense, his leadership, and yes, the fact that he knows his role as a tertiary offensive option this season and is smart enough to take the opportunities that come to him in the flow of the game. He's a senior who has given his all for this school, and that effort has helped us win a national championship and any number of other games. He consistently holds his man to well below his season average, providing incredible value to the team even when his shot isn't dropping. I don't understand why Duke fans feel the need to bash the guy. It makes me really sad.

Just ask Miami from the 1/21/17 game at Cameron. He blazed away and led us back.

[vick]

Hallelujah.

To push that point to breakage:

Variance on defense and offense in summary NCAA Men's BB stats (e.g. KenPom team D and team O) seem to be about the same, arguing that D and O abilities are equally important. What then is the difference between Matt (All ACC D; middling O) and Luke (All ACC O; middling D)?

While largely agreeing with your basic point (that defense, and Matt, are underrated), it's probably not possible for an excellent individual perimeter defender to impact the game as much as an excellent individual perimeter offensive player, because an offensive team can (generally) get the ball to the next best alternative player, who usually isn't that much worse. Similarly, a bad individual perimeter defender is probably worse than a bad individual offensive player for the same reason--the offense can pick on that defender fairly constantly, but you don't lose that much by having one player not much involved in the offense (though of course you lose some).

[uh_no]

While largely agreeing with your basic point (that defense, and Matt, are underrated), it's probably not possible for an excellent individual perimeter defender to impact the game as much as an excellent individual perimeter offensive player, because an offensive team can (generally) get the ball to the next best alternative player, who usually isn't that much worse. Similarly, a bad individual perimeter defender is probably worse than a bad individual offensive player for the same reason--the offense can pick on that defender fairly constantly, but you don't lose that much by having one player not much involved in the offense (though of course you lose some).

KP (likely) confirmed that effect with his analysis that said that offense is generally more indicative of a team's performance than defense:


A good offense beats a good defense. A bad offense will struggle against against a bad defense. In the college game anyway, offense has majority control of scoring. That is to say, if we know the quality of a team’s offense and its opponents defense, we should expect the offense’s efficiency in a game to be closer to the offense’s ability than the defense’s.

[Listen to Quants]

KP (likely) confirmed that effect with his analysis that said that offense is generally more indicative of a team's performance than defense:

If so then the variance of team offense would be more than team defense. No? I have no idea of KenPom D and O rating distributions are gaussian but the spread looks vaguely similar to my (quick casual) look.

[vick]

If so then the variance of team offense would be more than team defense. No? I have no idea of KenPom D and O rating distributions are gaussian but the spread looks vaguely similar to my (quick casual) look.

Not necessarily--you could have a similar spread and it still be the case that, in a matchup where the offense is 10% better than average and defense also 10% better, you would expect the result to be better-than-average offense.

But tying this back to Matt's value, forget about kenpom for a minute and just think about how the game works. Imagine you're playing against Duke. Even slumping this year, Matt's still a 33% three point shooter--good enough that you can't simply ignore him. Especially given Duke plays four perimeter players most of the time, how much does this really hurt the offense? Sure, it means if you have a good offensive player who is bad at defense then you can play him more and "hide" him some defensively. And it means Kennard, Tatum, Jackson, and Allen have to carry a bit more of a load, but given three of them are usually on the court anyway, not that much more (a couple of shots a game). So how much are you really losing here? And that's without even getting into difficult-to-quantify measures like having a senior who knows when to slow down, provides leadership, etc.. Bottom line, of course I'd rather all our players be great at every facet of the game--who wouldn't--but having a fifth option who has Matt's offensive limitations is just not that harmful, and his defense then makes him highly valuable.

[Listen to Quants]

Not necessarily--you could have a similar spread and it still be the case that, in a matchup where the offense is 10% better than average and defense also 10% better, you would expect the result to be better-than-average offense.

<snip of some good Matt Jones specific comment>
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hmm. I'd think in that case the variance of the defense across team (on an adjust point per possession or similar stat) would be less than the offenses'. Then a D, 10% better than average would indeed fail to bring an offense, 10% better than average down to average. (ie the 10% better D would translate into fewer points per possession (in this case prevented) than the 10% better O would translate into (in this case points added).