PDA

View Full Version : Where should the ACCT be held?



rthomas
03-09-2017, 07:38 AM
I value Chuck Todd's opinion on this subject more than the cheating Boeheim.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khSEqYxqH94

ChillinDuke
03-09-2017, 07:48 AM
Todd pretty clearly has no background on the topic whatsoever.

Like whatsoever.

But to the original question at hand, I think Brooklyn is a completely acceptable place to play given where we are as a conference right now: school locations, fan bases, branding, visibility, etc

I'm also fine with DC, Charlotte, Raleigh, Atlanta, Orlando, and maybe Miami.

I do agree with Boeheim that the ACC has probably outgrown Greensboro at this stage. I don't say that because I like it. It's just the truth. That said, we will probably continue to play our tourney there in the futurw for alterior motives.

- Chillin

gw67
03-09-2017, 09:09 AM
Todd pretty clearly has no background on the topic whatsoever.

Like whatsoever.

But to the original question at hand, I think Brooklyn is a completely acceptable place to play given where we are as a conference right now: school locations, fan bases, branding, visibility, etc

I'm also fine with DC, Charlotte, Raleigh, Atlanta, Orlando, and maybe Miami.

I do agree with Boeheim that the ACC has probably outgrown Greensboro at this stage. I don't say that because I like it. It's just the truth. That said, we will probably continue to play our tourney there in the futurw for alterior motives.

- Chillin

I had to chuckle when Boeheim left out Greensboro as an acceptable site for the tournament. He reminded me of Gary Williams and Lefty in previous years when they were concerned about Tobacco Road schools having an advantage. In the new ACC/Big East setup, Boeheim is probably right. I agree with Chillin.

gw67

flyingdutchdevil
03-09-2017, 09:21 AM
Todd pretty clearly has no background on the topic whatsoever.

Like whatsoever.

But to the original question at hand, I think Brooklyn is a completely acceptable place to play given where we are as a conference right now: school locations, fan bases, branding, visibility, etc

I'm also fine with DC, Charlotte, Raleigh, Atlanta, Orlando, and maybe Miami.

I do agree with Boeheim that the ACC has probably outgrown Greensboro at this stage. I don't say that because I like it. It's just the truth. That said, we will probably continue to play our tourney there in the futurw for alterior motives.

- Chillin

Yup. I couldn't agree more. All the locations (minus Orlando) really makes a lot of sense. The reason Orlando doesn't resonate with me is because Orlando is basically owned by Disney. And who else is owned by Disney? ESPN. I don't want the ACC to be more in bed with ESPN than it already is.

If the ACC wants to be the biggest, baddest conference (in terms of reputation and $$$), you need to target large and established cities. My vote? New York, DC, Charlotte, Miami, and Philly.

OZZIE4DUKE
03-09-2017, 09:25 AM
I think the ACCT should be held annually in Cameron Indoor Stadium, with Duke season ticket holders getting first dibs on the regular tickets. LGD GTHc!

devildeac
03-09-2017, 09:28 AM
I think the ACCT should be held annually in Cameron Indoor Stadium, with Duke season ticket holders getting first dibs on the regular tickets. LGD GTHc!

I'd like a cup of the same coffee Ozzie had this AM. ;)

dukebluesincebirth
03-09-2017, 09:30 AM
It should be held in North Carolina, the original heart of the ACC, and the state with the most passionate and loyal fans:) It's not all about the $.

flyingdutchdevil
03-09-2017, 09:31 AM
It should be held in North Carolina, the original heart of the ACC, and the state with the most passionate and loyal fans:) It's not all about the $.

Yes it is. That's why the ACC now has Louisville, Cuse, BC, etc.

Make it "not all about the $" means you will lose teams to other major conferences.

Bostondevil
03-09-2017, 09:34 AM
I wouldn't mind it coming to Boston. ;)

dukebluesincebirth
03-09-2017, 09:36 AM
Yes it is. That's why the ACC now has Louisville, Cuse, BC, etc.

Make it "not all about the $" means you will lose teams to other major conferences.

I know I know... But I wish it wasn't. I never wanted these teams in the league.

FadedTackyShirt
03-09-2017, 09:39 AM
If the ACC wants to be the biggest, baddest conference (in terms of reputation and $$$), you need to target large and established cities. My vote? New York, DC, Charlotte, Miami, and Philly.

I'd add Atlanta into the mix too.

Boston, Pittsburgh, and Indy are also major markets within the geographic footprint, but not centrally located and worth the incremental $s.

flyingdutchdevil
03-09-2017, 09:44 AM
I'd add Atlanta into the mix too.

Boston, Pittsburgh, and Indy are also major markets within the geographic footprint, but not centrally located and worth the incremental $s.

Atlanta is interesting. That's as SEC territory as you can get (okay, Bama is). Even though we have GT, it's safe to say that UGA basically owns that state. I wouldn't mind it being in ATL, but I fear it would be a lost cause in terms of marketing.

Boston is, ironically, not a college sports town (why would you be when you have 10 pro championships over the last 15 years. I totally understand why people hate the greatest city in the US).

Pittsburgh is just too small (300,000).

Indianapolis is Big 10 territory. But since the Big 10 tournament is in DC this year, I actually love the idea of Indianapolis.

CrazyNotCrazie
03-09-2017, 09:46 AM
I live and work short subway rides from the Barclays Center - unfortunately I can't attend this year due to work conflicts. I have been to past tournaments in Greensboro, Charlotte and DC. Despite a NY tournament making it easier for me to go, I think the home base should be Greesnboro, with stops in Charlotte, DC and maybe Atlanta. Definitely not Florida. I agree that Greensboro, and to some extent Charlotte, lacks the street traffic and watering holes around the arena, but there was nothing like settling in for a day of great basketball in Greensboro and knowing you were at the big event in town.

Despite having inferior teams, the Big East has this weekend cornered in NY - as much as one event can have a weekend cornered here. It has been here for years and it has the prime location (MSG) and locals still have fond memories of great tournaments of the past. It will be interesting to see if perspectives change today and tomorrow as we get into the meat of the ACC tournament schedule - New Yorkers generally want the best and watered down play-in games don't whet their appetites. And unfortunately, some of the teams with the greatest ties to NY (Syracuse and BC) were not very good this year.

flyingdutchdevil
03-09-2017, 09:48 AM
I live and work short subway rides from the Barclays Center - unfortunately I can't attend this year due to work conflicts. I have been to past tournaments in Greensboro, Charlotte and DC. Despite a NY tournament making it easier for me to go, I think the home base should be Greesnboro, with stops in Charlotte, DC and maybe Atlanta. Definitely not Florida. I agree that Greensboro, and to some extent Charlotte, lacks the street traffic and watering holes around the arena, but there was nothing like settling in for a day of great basketball in Greensboro and knowing you were at the big event in town.

Despite having inferior teams, the Big East has this weekend cornered in NY - as much as one event can have a weekend cornered here. It has been here for years and it has the prime location (MSG) and locals still have fond memories of great tournaments of the past. It will be interesting to see if perspectives change today and tomorrow as we get into the meat of the ACC tournament schedule - New Yorkers generally want the best and watered down play-in games don't whet their appetites. And unfortunately, some of the teams with the greatest ties to NY (Syracuse and BC) were not very good this year.

Please take that statement back. BC has NO ties to NY! Gross...

RPS
03-09-2017, 09:49 AM
It depends upon what you're after.

If it's a recruiting bump, then Jimmy B is right. NYC, DC and Atlanta.

If it's fun for the fans, then NYC, Boston, Philly, DC, Orlando and perhaps Atlanta, Miami or Charlotte (maybe even Chicago given the proximity to ND).

If it's ease of travel for the most fans -- that used to be G'boro -- then it's a matter of fair rotation up and down the east coast.

If it's history, then G'boro.

I'm hoping for San Diego.

Stray Gator
03-09-2017, 09:52 AM
Atlanta is interesting. That's as SEC territory as you can get (okay, Bama is). Even though we have GT, it's safe to say that UGA basically owns that state. I wouldn't mind it being in ATL, but I fear it would be a lost cause in terms of marketing.
. . ..

Our crew of Duke fans enjoyed attending the ACC Tourney in Atlanta several times, especially in 2001 and 2009.

tbyers11
03-09-2017, 09:57 AM
Yup. I couldn't agree more. All the locations (minus Orlando) really makes a lot of sense. The reason Orlando doesn't resonate with me is because Orlando is basically owned by Disney. And who else is owned by Disney? ESPN. I don't want the ACC to be more in bed with ESPN than it already is.

If the ACC wants to be the biggest, baddest conference (in terms of reputation and $$$), you need to target large and established cities. My vote? New York, DC, Charlotte, Miami, and Philly.

I'm biased because I live in Orlando so I would love to see it here. I don't think the Disney/ESPN connection would be an issue because the only place they could have the tourney would be the Amway Center (Orlando Magic arena) which is downtown. Disney's basketball facility (where the Thanksgiving tourney is) holds at most ~4000 and wouldn't work.

I know the ACC tourney was in Tampa once and wasn't well received relative to Atlanta, Charlotte, Greensboro. But with further expansion, and the fact that we are already in NYC and considering (at least in this thread) Boston and Pittsburgh, Orlando seems like a good fit.

mark34
03-09-2017, 09:59 AM
Greensboro. ACC Tournament in NY? ugh.

I've always liked Boeheim, but clearly he has never embraced the ACC and will always be an old Big East guy. And I get that. It makes sense. But as an ACC guy, this will always be a state of North Carolina centric league at its core to me. I wish the tournament would stay in Greensboro. Worst case, Charlotte or Atlanta (I know, that's not NC).

FadedTackyShirt
03-09-2017, 10:01 AM
If it's fun for the fans, then NYC, Boston, Philly, DC, Orlando and perhaps Atlanta, Miami or Charlotte (maybe even Chicago given the proximity to ND).

Was curious if Chicago would come up. Outside the ACC footprint, but a great (sports) town and massive enough to justify the media and recruiting exposure.

Duke is already a sworn enemy of UI, but they would lose it if K, Collins, or Scheyer (after K retires at 80) won an ACCT in Chitown.

dukebluesincebirth
03-09-2017, 10:02 AM
It depends upon what you're after.

If it's a recruiting bump, then Jimmy B is right. NYC, DC and Atlanta.

If it's fun for the fans, then NYC, Boston, Philly, DC, Orlando and perhaps Atlanta, Miami or Charlotte (maybe even Chicago given the proximity to ND).

If it's ease of travel for the most fans -- that used to be G'boro -- then it's a matter of fair rotation up and down the east coast.

If it's history, then G'boro.

I'm hoping for San Diego.

History and tradition should play a part. The ACC was built on Tobacco Road and the NC schools laid the basketball foundation of the league. But I understand these things don't matter to most people anymore. It's make as much money as possible whenever possible. You have to think that mentality will eventually corrode the game. Oh wait...

Atlanta Duke
03-09-2017, 10:04 AM
Atlanta is interesting. That's as SEC territory as you can get (okay, Bama is). Even though we have GT, it's safe to say that UGA basically owns that state. I wouldn't mind it being in ATL, but I fear it would be a lost cause in terms of marketing...

Pittsburgh is just too small (300,000).

Indianapolis is Big 10 territory. But since the Big 10 tournament is in DC this year, I actually love the idea of Indianapolis.

ACC tournament was a big draw in Atlanta in 2001 - lots of ACC alums here. As far as UGA owning the area, true in football but UGA is a non- factor in terms of college basketball.

As far as Pittsburgh being "too small" the city population is relatively small due to how the borders are drawn, but that is also true for Atlanta (city population 460,000 for a 5.5 million metro area population). Pittsburgh metro area population is 2.3 million, which is comparable to Charlotte and bigger than Indy. As someone who grew up in and still has ties to Pittsburgh a bigger problem is that Pittsburgh is not a big college basketball city, although I recall attendance for the NCAAs has been good when Pittsburgh has been a host city.

Charlotte, DC, Atlanta rotation works for me. Let's see how Brooklyn works in 2017 and 2018 - I have my doubts.

camion
03-09-2017, 10:05 AM
I propose adding Greenville, SC to the mix.

There's the Clemson connection.
It's along I-85 and pretty centrally located.
It's hosting NCAAs this year {Thanks HB2 :)}
There are a ton of downtown restaurants withing walking distance.

And most importantly...
I live 10 minutes away from the arena.

duke74
03-09-2017, 10:12 AM
Despite having inferior teams, the Big East has this weekend cornered in NY - as much as one event can have a weekend cornered here. It has been here for years and it has the prime location (MSG) and locals still have fond memories of great tournaments of the past. It will be interesting to see if perspectives change today and tomorrow as we get into the meat of the ACC tournament schedule - New Yorkers generally want the best and watered down play-in games don't whet their appetites. And unfortunately, some of the teams with the greatest ties to NY (Syracuse and BC) were not very good this year.

Add to this correct statement a throwback dust up yesterday between GTown and St. John's (Mullin, Lil Thompson and Lil Ewing). But the Big East now is nothing like it was, for this NYer (Queens). At birth, a collection (mostly) of urban, Catholic, not big FB schools (exceptions of course).

St. John's now pays me as a professor, so Go Storm! Good to see us rekindling the series (and, yes, I will be a Devil then...as a student asked me, "Will you root for the school that pays you or to whom you "pay"? The answer is obvious)

MSG still a great venue despite Dolan's antics...way more prestigious than Barclays. (I remember my GO card days in the nosebleed seats for the Knicks.)

Bluedog
03-09-2017, 10:12 AM
Was curious if Chicago would come up. Outside the ACC footprint, but a great (sports) town and massive enough to justify the media and recruiting exposure.

Duke is already a sworn enemy of UI, but they would lose it if K, Collins, or Scheyer (after K retires at 80) won an ACCT in Chitown.

UI? I'm assuming that's U of I? I didn't know they were a sworn enemy of us, but I guess we've snatched up a few good recruits from IL lately like Parker, Scheyer and Livingston. I think major cities make sense even if it's not in the "historic ACC geographic footprint" from just a getting butts in the seats perspective and media/recruiting exposure. If the ACC tournament was at the United Center, you'd better believe there'd be a good showing for it (of course, assuming the B1G is out of town). There is a reason the McDonald's All America Game used to rotate cities every year and now has been in Chicago since 2011 -- because Chicago is a basketball city and people will go out to watch (also it's geographically relatively centrally located in the US for high school players...and McDonald's being HQ'ed in Chicago doesn't hurt either).

With that said, I think a rotation with Greensboro in that rotation makes complete sense. What you want to avoid is something like the pathetic showings in FL for ACC football championships....But I don't think that's been the case in Greensboro. There is a balance between all the factors (media exposure, convenience of fans, etc.). And it's not being close to a campus means it's easier for the most number of fans. Alumni often tend to live in large cities....as large cities have the most people. :D

OldPhiKap
03-09-2017, 10:31 AM
I propose adding Greenville, SC to the mix.

There's the Clemson connection.
It's along I-85 and pretty centrally located.
It's hosting NCAAs this year {Thanks HB2 :)}
There are a ton of downtown restaurants withing walking distance.

And most importantly...
I live 10 minutes away from the arena.

Greenville these days is an undiscovered gem IMO. The downtown area is great and it is centrally located. If folks like Boeheim want a big TV market and lots of nightlife, though, well -- it's ahead of Greensboro but behind all of the others listed.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
03-09-2017, 10:50 AM
I propose adding Greenville, SC to the mix.

There's the Clemson connection.
It's along I-85 and pretty centrally located.
It's hosting NCAAs this year {Thanks HB2 :)}
There are a ton of downtown restaurants withing walking distance.

And most importantly...
I live 10 minutes away from the arena.

Funny, I was going to propose Asheville for similar reasons. I would accept Greenville as well.

As a back up plan, they could simply play in my backyard. I would totally put in a full court and a few bleachers.

ChillinDuke
03-09-2017, 11:02 AM
Greenville these days is an undiscovered gem IMO. The downtown area is great and it is centrally located. If folks like Boeheim want a big TV market and lots of nightlife, though, well -- it's ahead of Greensboro but behind all of the others listed.


Funny, I was going to propose Asheville for similar reasons. I would accept Greenville as well.

As a back up plan, they could simply play in my backyard. I would totally put in a full court and a few bleachers.

Do these places have full fledged arenas though? They are trying to market these events as major sporting events. So smaller scale arenas (e.g. the Lahaina Civic Center of the Maui Invitational) don't fit the bill. Greensboro's arena, for example, is a pretty legit venue. The city is just harder to market as a major sporting event destination.

I assume Greenville has a legit arena as well since it is an NCAAT site this year. Asheville, though?

- Chillin

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
03-09-2017, 11:06 AM
Do these places have full fledged arenas though? They are trying to market these events as major sporting events. So smaller scale arenas (e.g. the Lahaina Civic Center of the Maui Invitational) don't fit the bill. Greensboro's arena, for example, is a pretty legit venue. The city is just harder to market as a major sporting event destination.

I assume Greenville has a legit arena as well since it is an NCAAT site this year. Asheville, though?

- Chillin

Oh, of course not. This was wishful thinking. We host the Southern Conference, and that pretty much maxes out our facilities. It's a blast though.

Reilly
03-09-2017, 11:18 AM
To me, folks have hit on the key: it depends what you want. What bugs me about Boeheim is that his perspective seems purely transactional and "what's in it for me." He's Kenny Bania. We're all a little transactional at times, and know others who are that way. But sometimes it's good to be celebratory and present just because, not because of what it may get you down the road. Greensboro is celebratory, to me. The best sporting event I've attended was the 1988 tourney in Greensboro, and not b/c Duke won. But because of the passion of the event, of the culture that Greensboro helped create somehow. Maybe it's all lost with 15 teams and luminaries who cover themselves in glory like Pitino and Boeheim with slander suits and extortions and NCAA violations and hard-to-take attitudes, so it might as well be removed from Greensboro. I guess I'm like Boeheim in that I care about "what's in it for me" but what I care about is not having jackasses like him in the conference, or killing further what was a great thing. But maybe it's already dead.

Indoor66
03-09-2017, 11:19 AM
I'd like a cup of the same coffee Ozzie had this AM. ;)

Send a case of it to all my generals!😈😎

BandAlum83
03-09-2017, 11:26 AM
I think Jimmy B has is right from a rationale standpoint. He was very unartful in his delivery.

Being on the edge of crustiness, I would love a historical nod to the essence of the ACC, but I am a realist also. The ship has sailed, and it's a new conference. I think we need larger venues and bigger cities.

If going to the Midwest, I would definitely say Chicago and definitely not Indy. I was going to bring up Chicago as I read through this thread.

I would rotate through NY, DC, Atlanta, Chicago. No Miami. We hit the major regional markets in large cities well equipped to handle the event in a quality manner.

OZ
03-09-2017, 11:28 AM
Yes it is. That's why the ACC now has Louisville, Cuse, BC, etc.
Make it "not all about the $" means you will lose teams to other major conferences.


I always wondered why they were invited into the ACC. When I heard Boeheim say the ACCT didn't belong in Greensboro; ironically, I was thinking the same thing about Cuse, L'ville, Pitt and Boston College.

Hingeknocker
03-09-2017, 11:31 AM
I don't particularly think this is a question solely about money. While it's true that it's good for the conference to host the tournament in Brooklyn, I agree with Reilly that it reduces the hosting decisions to something purely transactional. Moving the conference tournament around is more about fairness across the conference, for teams and fans. The fact of the matter is that we are an incredibly geographically diverse conference now, and the showcase conference event should reflect that.

That being said, North Carolina is still the geographic center of the conference. History really shouldn't have anything to do with it, in my opinion. But I think the reasonable rotation would be to have it in North Carolina 2 out of every 5 years, with Atlanta, New York and DC filling out the other years.

Something like:


Charlotte
New York
Atlanta
Greensboro
DC



makes a lot of sense to me.

throatybeard
03-09-2017, 11:41 AM
But maybe it's already dead.

Bingo.

It's probably a life stage thing, but I just don't care, either. I'm 40 now. I've seen the tournament in Greensboro and Charlotte, long enough ago that the ACC cared whether people were in the stands. Now they don't. Fine, but then don't expect me to care about going to it. Arts organizations and friends I miss lure me to New York. A diluted ACCT isn't enough.

Our time on earth is finite, and having less of it left certainly isn't making me care more about attending sports. If the event isn't what it was, well, I'm over it.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
03-09-2017, 11:41 AM
I don't particularly think this is a question solely about money. While it's true that it's good for the conference to host the tournament in Brooklyn, I agree with Reilly that it reduces the hosting decisions to something purely transactional. Moving the conference tournament around is more about fairness across the conference, for teams and fans. The fact of the matter is that we are an incredibly geographically diverse conference now, and the showcase conference event should reflect that.

That being said, North Carolina is still the geographic center of the conference. History really shouldn't have anything to do with it, in my opinion. But I think the reasonable rotation would be to have it in North Carolina 2 out of every 5 years, with Atlanta, New York and DC filling out the other years.

Something like:


Charlotte
New York
Atlanta
Greensboro
DC



makes a lot of sense to me.

I think it would be fun/interesting to see Miami in the mix.

Reilly
03-09-2017, 11:49 AM
Bingo.

It's probably a life stage thing, but I just don't care, either. I'm 40 now. I've seen the tournament in Greensboro and Charlotte, long enough ago that the ACC cared whether people were in the stands. Now they don't. Fine, but then don't expect me to care about going to it. Arts organizations and friends I miss lure me to New York. A diluted ACCT isn't enough.

Our time on earth is finite, and having less of it left certainly isn't making me care more about attending sports. If the event isn't what it was, well, I'm over it.

I hear you. And the sad thing for me is that it didn't have to be this way. The ACC schools could have said "this is who we are; this is how we'll be." Duke football *had* to sell home games to FSU ... until it got a little self-respect and figured that, no, it didn't. The ACC *had* to expand b/c b/c b/c .... No, it didn't. Life's full of choices. The ACC members chose wrongly, in a big way, in my estimation. I'm about done it with it all.

Olympic Fan
03-09-2017, 11:52 AM
Would somebody explain to me how New York City (or Atlanta, Washington) provides more $$ for the conference?

Does ESPN pay more to broadcast the tournament from Barclays than they would in pay to broadcast the event from Greensboro?

It can't be ticket revenue -- Greensboro is the largest arena in the ACC Tournament rotation (except for the George Dome, which isn't in the rotation any more).

Plus, expenses in New York (hotel for staff and players and teams) are MYCH higher in New York than in Greensboro. On top of that, I know for a fact that it its costing the ACC MUCH more to rent Barclays than it costs for Greensboro.

So if looks to me like playing in New York costs the ACC a lot of $$.

As for the people who say it helps recruiting, that's ridiculous. New York City is no longer a hotbed of talent. There is not a single starter in the current ACC who came from the city -- and just one who came from the state of New York. In contrast, 12 current starters come from North Carolina and 22 current scholarship players in all.

New York City might be fun for the fans -- who can afford it. If you like playing $300 a night for a hotel room (the official rate for the ACC media hotel), that's great. I'm sure with a little effort you can find lodging at $150 a night -- about twice what you'd have to pay in Greensboro.

Greensboro is a great place for the tournament -- most of all because when the tourney is there, the ACC Tournament dominates the entire city ... in New York, they barely know it's there.

duke2x
03-09-2017, 11:58 AM
Jimmy B. is channeling his inner Gary Williams before he retires next year. He's right that his thoughts don't matter. Perhaps ESPN supports it because they don't have to drive far from CT to get there.

Greensboro has the unique advantage of the Coliseum. It seats 23,000 with very few bad seats. You can't say that about most arenas that seat 15,000+. It would be full for any quarterfinals game involving Duke, UNC, NCSU, UVA, VT, or Wake. The jury should be out on NYC until we see the attendance the next 2 years, but I doubt you will get 17,000 attending any game Fri/Sat if Duke loses today.

The ACC has always rotated the event. With 8 schools (Clemson, too) that would prefer Greensboro, it should be there 50% of the time. 1 South (ATL/FL), 1 North (DC/NYC), 2 NC (Greensboro is better than Charlotte for available seats.)

gus
03-09-2017, 12:03 PM
I don't know if this is the right thread to post this, but Featherston, in his front page piece about the tournament location, mentioned this:


...where J.J. Redick has the greatest final 10 minutes in tournament history.

Here are highlights from those final 10 minutes:

https://youtu.be/f3a8dJkv2W8?t=1m30s

ipatent
03-09-2017, 12:06 PM
Todd pretty clearly has no background on the topic whatsoever.

Like whatsoever.

But to the original question at hand, I think Brooklyn is a completely acceptable place to play given where we are as a conference right now: school locations, fan bases, branding, visibility, etc

I'm also fine with DC, Charlotte, Raleigh, Atlanta, Orlando, and maybe Miami.

I do agree with Boeheim that the ACC has probably outgrown Greensboro at this stage. I don't say that because I like it. It's just the truth. That said, we will probably continue to play our tourney there in the futurw for alterior motives.

- Chillin

Greensboro was great for the fans who were lucky enough to have tickets. Mid-size city, inexpensive parking and lodging, tradition and a traditional Carolina ACC flavor. New York brings media attention, helps recruiting for all schools versus the other major conferences and puts the ACC's stamp on the mid-Atlantic region that it straddles.

camion
03-09-2017, 12:08 PM
Do these places have full fledged arenas though? They are trying to market these events as major sporting events. So smaller scale arenas (e.g. the Lahaina Civic Center of the Maui Invitational) don't fit the bill. Greensboro's arena, for example, is a pretty legit venue. The city is just harder to market as a major sporting event destination.

I assume Greenville has a legit arena as well since it is an NCAAT site this year. Asheville, though?

- Chillin

The Bon Secours arena in Greenville, SC holds a bit over 15,000.

If you're flying into Greenville, GSP (Greenville) or CLT (Charlotte) are convenient. ATL (Atlanta) airport is bad for Greenville, wrong side of the city.

BandAlum83
03-09-2017, 12:09 PM
Jimmy B. is channeling his inner Gary Williams before he retires next year. He's right that his thoughts don't matter. Perhaps ESPN supports it because they don't have to drive far from CT to get there.

Greensboro has the unique advantage of the Coliseum. It seats 23,000 with very few bad seats. You can't say that about most arenas that seat 15,000+. It would be full for any quarterfinals game involving Duke, UNC, NCSU, UVA, VT, or Wake. The jury should be out on NYC until we see the attendance the next 2 years, but I doubt you will get 17,000 attending any game Fri/Sat if Duke loses today.

The ACC has always rotated the event. With 8 schools (Clemson, too) that would prefer Greensboro, it should be there 50% of the time. 1 South (ATL/FL), 1 North (DC/NYC), 2 NC (Greensboro is better than Charlotte for available seats.)

Whether or not the seats are filled is just optics. It doesn't really matter because the tickets are sold even if the seats are empty.

Even back in the day, the Friday afternoon sessions often saw empty seats. The Saturday and Sunday sessions were the packed sessions, especially since 6 of the 8 schools were close to the venue and fans could come scoop up tickets sold by the losing teams fans.

Those days are mostly gone now. The conference covers a huge geographical footprint. We are in a new paradigm.

Can anyone get excited for Tuesday games in the tourney now? Even the fans of participating schools. They know their team won't win 5 days in a row. It's pretty ridiculous, really.

BandAlum83
03-09-2017, 12:13 PM
Bingo.

It's probably a life stage thing, but I just don't care, either. I'm 40 now. I've seen the tournament in Greensboro and Charlotte, long enough ago that the ACC cared whether people were in the stands. Now they don't. Fine, but then don't expect me to care about going to it. Arts organizations and friends I miss lure me to New York. A diluted ACCT isn't enough.

Our time on earth is finite, and having less of it left certainly isn't making me care more about attending sports. If the event isn't what it was, well, I'm over it.

Check your cynicism at the door, baby! It's ACC tournament time!

The grand daddy of them all! Filled with history, PTPers and diaper dandies!

Ohhhhhh! Ohhhh! Ohhhh!

throatybeard
03-09-2017, 12:15 PM
(except for the George Dome, which isn't in the rotation any more).

I'm totally calling it that from now on.

Hey guys, remember that year after Katrina when the Sugar Bowl was in the George Dome? I love me some West Virginia.

jv001
03-09-2017, 12:23 PM
I'm going with 1) Greensboro. 2) Raleigh 3) Atlanta 4) Winston Salem 5) anywhere else in NC but Charlotte(2nd home for uncheats). I had no problem with New York until Blow hard ran his mouth yesterday. Just kidding about W/S but it is my home now. GoDuke!

throatybeard
03-09-2017, 12:26 PM
Game this out a little, guys. Can you even project that ACC HQ will remain in Greensboro indefinitely?

Why would it? Four-horse towns lose corporate headquarters to ten-horse towns all the time. Until oil goes to $200 or $300/barrel, this globalization game is going one way, and it isn't toward the third metro area in North Carolina's piedmont. The ACC positioned itself in the 2000s as the major collegiate sports league for the east coast, try as the B1G might to make inroads. So why won't the league HQ move to NYC or DC, eventually? It could happen.

"David Thompson was really great" is something I agree with, but in 2017 it also doesn't qualify as a reason that North Carolina will remain the core of the conference, four schools or no.

Neals384
03-09-2017, 12:29 PM
fyi. the next three years are set up as follows:

2018 - Brooklyn
2019 - Charlotte
2020 - Greensboro

CrazyNotCrazie
03-09-2017, 12:37 PM
fyi. the next three years are set up as follows:

2018 - Brooklyn
2019 - Charlotte
2020 - Greensboro

Please remind me - are the NC locations at risk due to HB2?

flyingdutchdevil
03-09-2017, 12:38 PM
Please remind me - are the NC locations at risk due to HB2?

If the law doesn't change, I assume they will be by the end of 2018.

ChillinDuke
03-09-2017, 12:41 PM
Would somebody explain to me how New York City (or Atlanta, Washington) provides more $$ for the conference?

Does ESPN pay more to broadcast the tournament from Barclays than they would in pay to broadcast the event from Greensboro?

It can't be ticket revenue -- Greensboro is the largest arena in the ACC Tournament rotation (except for the George Dome, which isn't in the rotation any more).

Plus, expenses in New York (hotel for staff and players and teams) are MYCH higher in New York than in Greensboro. On top of that, I know for a fact that it its costing the ACC MUCH more to rent Barclays than it costs for Greensboro.

So if looks to me like playing in New York costs the ACC a lot of $$.

As for the people who say it helps recruiting, that's ridiculous. New York City is no longer a hotbed of talent. There is not a single starter in the current ACC who came from the city -- and just one who came from the state of New York. In contrast, 12 current starters come from North Carolina and 22 current scholarship players in all.

New York City might be fun for the fans -- who can afford it. If you like playing $300 a night for a hotel room (the official rate for the ACC media hotel), that's great. I'm sure with a little effort you can find lodging at $150 a night -- about twice what you'd have to pay in Greensboro.

Greensboro is a great place for the tournament -- most of all because when the tourney is there, the ACC Tournament dominates the entire city ... in New York, they barely know it's there.

The ACC doesn't care what you, one of the most loyal, informed, die-hard Duke/ACC fans, think of it being in NY vs Greensboro. They don't.

The ACC cares what my work colleague, Rich, thinks of it being in NY vs Greensboro. He went to Rutgers, grew up in Jersey, and has never been to a college basketball game in his life. While watching the game at my desk yesterday, he came over and asked "What is this?" After explaining (and bantering a bit), he soon asked where is it? I told him Brooklyn. He then asked if I had ever gone, to which I explained to him it's often in Greensboro or Atlanta so I can't usually make it (although I went to the tourney in Greensboro once and had a quite enjoyable time despite being physically assaulted by a drunk UNC fan to the point of bleeding). He asked where Greensboro was, then pondered a bit. He asked if it was a big city. He asked if it was a suburb of Charlotte, sort of like Anaheim and LA. Then he said, "you know, if Duke plays UNC Fri night, I'll go to the game with you - sounds like it would be fun."

By having the ACCT in places like Brooklyn (on a rotation), this is the exact type of prospective fan that the ACC is interested in. They want to expand interest, not satisfy existing interest.

This real-life example (from yesterday) is why the ACC probably believes places such as NY provide more $$ for the conference than a place such as Greensboro (that is already likely market saturated in the eyes of the ACC).

- Chillin

Reilly
03-09-2017, 12:44 PM
If the law doesn't change, I assume they will be by the end of 2018.

Even if the law does not change, maybe the court proceedings will be completed by then, which could provide for a settled legal landscape in which the ACC could make its decision. Of course, even if the law is upheld by the courts and the legal landscape is settled, the ACC might still refuse to hold championships in NC. But a court finding the law is OK w/ no more challenges pending might sway the ACC to change its position.

Semi-mandatory disclaimer: not arguing for or against the wisdom of the law, or for or against a finding of legality by the courts ... simply noting that a settled legal landscape might change the ACC's thinking (or, of course, might not).

brevity
03-09-2017, 12:45 PM
Is there any location where 14 of the 15 fanbases will cheer in unison against UNC? If so, let's have it there.

BandAlum83
03-09-2017, 12:46 PM
Please remind me - are the NC locations at risk due to HB2?

Yes.

flyingdutchdevil
03-09-2017, 12:51 PM
Is there any location where 14 of the 15 fanbases will cheer in unison against UNC? If so, let's have it there.

If this is the criteria, then I don't recommend hosting the tournament in hell.

devildeac
03-09-2017, 12:51 PM
Is there any location where 14 of the 15 fanbases will cheer in unison against UNC? If so, let's have it there.

Raleigh works, but, the way the cheaters play there, they kinda think about it as a home away from home. :rolleyes::mad:

Reddevil
03-09-2017, 12:52 PM
As far as Boeheim's opinion - bless his little yankee heart! Ya know Jimmy, it's beside the point, but Greensboro has twice the population of Syracuse. Anyway, it really does not matter where the tournament is played because the TV money trumps everything as far as the profit argument. Ticket sales are a pittance compared to that. All that matters is that there is a decent size arena. It does not even have to be enormous because the fans of the various teams are rotating in and out. Most of us watch it on TV. Most recruits watch it on TV. It could be on the moon and the conference would be just fine. If you don't like the pace or size or culture of our quaint southern towns - don't come. You won't be missed. Thanks for watching TV. You already paid for it. Now excuse me while I have some BBQ and sweat tea on the front porch swing and listen to the birds chirp. Ahhh tradition!:cool:

RPS
03-09-2017, 12:53 PM
Game this out a little, guys. Can you even project that ACC HQ will remain in Greensboro indefinitely?

Why would it? Four-horse towns lose corporate headquarters to ten-horse towns all the time.

Indy has created a nice little niche as the unofficial home of the Final Four. It (not, NYC, Chicago or LA) stole NCAA headquarters from Kansas (Mission and Overland Park). It has a great arena surrounded by an excellent downtown area. Most importantly (obviously), Indy has a long-term contract (http://www.ncaa.com/futurefinalfour) with the NCAA that guarantees that the Final Four will be held regularly in the city.

So it's possible (if not likely).

flyingdutchdevil
03-09-2017, 01:01 PM
Southerns want Greensboro/tradition. Northerners want New York/Rotation.

Yes, yes. There are exceptions. But that's what it reads like to me.

throatybeard
03-09-2017, 01:02 PM
7242

howardlander
03-09-2017, 01:09 PM
Yes.

I think risk is the wrong way to phrase it, as it implies some uncertainty. If HB2 is not repealed, these tournaments will not be in NC.

Howard

ChillinDuke
03-09-2017, 01:12 PM
Southerns want Greensboro/tradition. Northerners want New York/Rotation.

Yes, yes. There are exceptions. But that's what it reads like to me.

It may read like that. But in reality, I'm a traditionalist. I prefer the Greensboro/small town atmosphere where the whole city is engaged and engulfed in the event. I went to Duke, my girlfriend is from Charlotte, her family lives just south of the city proper in Ballantyne. They gas up in Indian Land, SC. We often vacation in Charleston; I really like it there.

The issue I take with this argument is not north vs south. But logic vs stubbornness. To ignore that the ACC wants to brand and is branding itself as the premier college basketball (if not all sports) conference in the east (if not the nation) is crazy to me. And given that context, to believe that traditional sites like Greensboro make more sense than major metropolitan areas that have orders of magnitude more people to tap into for revenue streams is equally crazy.

Have the ACC Tourney in Greensboro. I'm all for it. Heck, I'll even come when I can make it.

But then don't also ask for the ACC to be the premier collegiate conference. It's incredibly difficult to explain "Greensboro" as a concept to someone not from there / not die hard into hoops. And the ACC doesn't want die hards, they have die hards already. They want more fans, read: casual fans.

You can't have your cake and eat it too - although, to a certain extent, in 1995 you could have your cake and eat it too.

- Chillin

FadedTackyShirt
03-09-2017, 01:13 PM
Raleigh works, but, the way the cheaters play there, they kinda think about it as a home away from home. :rolleyes::mad:

Hole bashing never goes out of style, but ACCT shouldn't be played in Raleigh since it's NCSU's home court.

OldPhiKap
03-09-2017, 01:20 PM
The conference is so large, I don't think that rotating it around is avoidable. In fact, it is pretty much necessary to keep peace and to avoid the home-court advantage that Greensboro sorta gives the Big Four.

Don't like it, but that ship sailed with the Pilot -- er, with expansion.

As far as where the ACC is headquartered, as long as John Swofford is in charge it will continue to be located way up the rectum of the Rams Club. Mailing address notwithstanding.

devildeac
03-09-2017, 01:36 PM
Hole bashing never goes out of style, but ACCT shouldn't be played in Raleigh since it's NCSU's home court.

They were 11-7 there this year, excluding exhibitions, so one could argue "home court.":rolleyes:;)

(I know, it really is their home court and you can't play the ACCT there. :o)

royalblue
03-09-2017, 02:01 PM
I love the ACC tourney lets put that on the table
I think it should rotate around most of the places talked about
On this thread ( Indy was great as I was there for 2 of the 3 FF wins the Devils have had and would love it included also)

1. Does Jimmy have to be seemingly so nasty about
his opinion? It should not be too much to ask of a senior division 1 head coach to use some tact when addressing something that does not really affect him except if he attends his hotel and restaurant might not be quite as nice.

I think it should rotate but if we can find that location that Brevity
spoke of that 14 of 15 fan bases cheer against the heels I promise to be as big of a jerk as Jimmy in pushing for the change.

throatybeard
03-09-2017, 02:13 PM
Gary retired and Maryland went to the B1G, so the job of trolling the NC schools got picked up by Boeheim. Circle of life.

Nugget
03-09-2017, 02:34 PM
To me, folks have hit on the key: it depends what you want. What bugs me about Boeheim is that his perspective seems purely transactional and "what's in it for me." He's Kenny Bania. We're all a little transactional at times, and know others who are that way. But sometimes it's good to be celebratory and present just because, not because of what it may get you down the road. Greensboro is celebratory, to me. The best sporting event I've attended was the 1988 tourney in Greensboro, and not b/c Duke won. But because of the passion of the event, of the culture that Greensboro helped create somehow. Maybe it's all lost with 15 teams and luminaries who cover themselves in glory like Pitino and Boeheim with slander suits and extortions and NCAA violations and hard-to-take attitudes, so it might as well be removed from Greensboro. I guess I'm like Boeheim in that I care about "what's in it for me" but what I care about is not having jackasses like him in the conference, or killing further what was a great thing. But maybe it's already dead.

This. The ACC Tournament is most meaningful to Tobacco Road. NC is most centrally-located for the most fans.

The idea that the ACC needs to move the tournament around to help recruiting is absurd. But, fine, if you occasionally want to play it in NY, DC or Atl, for big media market exposure and because those are more fun post-game dining options, so be it. But, 3 or 4 of every 5 years should be in Greensboro.

After 12 hours or great ACC basketball, scattered, smothered and covered at the Waffle House about does it for me.

Neals384
03-09-2017, 04:54 PM
Please remind me - are the NC locations at risk due to HB2?

The ACC is no doubt under contract with the venue and host hotel for future ACCTs. Changing venues could be quite costly. The ACC is not the NCAA which has many venues and can absorb the cost of changing one or two.

throatybeard
03-09-2017, 05:33 PM
No matter where we hold this event, the ceiling is the roof.

OldPhiKap
03-09-2017, 05:35 PM
The ACC is no doubt under contract with the venue and host hotel for future ACCTs. Changing venues could be quite costly. The ACC is not the NCAA which has many venues and can absorb the cost of changing one or two.

The ACC moved the football championship this year from Charlotte to Florida. I'm sure they could do the same with a smaller venue many years out.

OZ
03-09-2017, 05:44 PM
This. The ACC Tournament is most meaningful to Tobacco Road. NC is most centrally-located for the most fans.

The idea that the ACC needs to move the tournament around to help recruiting is absurd. But, fine, if you occasionally want to play it in NY, DC or Atl, for big media market exposure and because those are more fun post-game dining options, so be it. But, 3 or 4 of every 5 years should be in Greensboro.

After 12 hours or great ACC basketball, scattered, smothered and covered at the Waffle House about does it for me.

...and for unc as well. They want it in Greensboro or Raleigh, because they always return home after each game, so the players can attend class.

wavedukefan70s
03-09-2017, 05:44 PM
It should rotate either new york or D.C. then atlanta and maybe orlando.then greensboro and charlotte.i prefer it in the last two.i will never go to new york again. D.C. is ok. Orlando and atlanta are doable.
I didnt like it when fsu came into the acc much less jim b and the orange.but it is what it is.
Duke,unc,state ,wake forest?geogia tech,clemson,maryland and virginia are the real A.C.C. to me anyway.

weezie
03-09-2017, 05:51 PM
Gary retired and Maryland went to the B1G, so the job of trolling the NC schools got picked up by Boeheim. Circle of life.

Sniff, makes me teary-eyed. So life affirming...

Hingeknocker
03-09-2017, 05:53 PM
I'm not sure why so many people are misconstruing the impact hosting the tournament in a place like Brooklyn has on recruiting. It's not to expand the map of recruitable area, it's to tell players like Jayson Tatum when they are in High School, "Come to Duke and you'll get to play in the country's biggest arenas on the biggest stage." It may not be as marginally important to a school like Duke, who already plays a lot of games in NBA arenas, but I absolutely believe having the ACC Tournament in NBA arenas is a recruiting chip for schools like Clemson, Virginia Tech, Wake Forest, etc.

And it's still important to Duke - just check out how much social media attention they are paying to being in the "big city" this week.

BandAlum83
03-09-2017, 05:58 PM
...and for unc as well. They want it in greensboro or raleigh, because they always return home after each game, so the players can attend class.

rotflmao!!!

Indoor66
03-09-2017, 05:59 PM
I'm not sure why so many people are misconstruing the impact hosting the tournament in a place like Brooklyn has on recruiting. It's not to expand the map of recruitable area, it's to tell players like Jayson Tatum when they are in High School, "Come to Duke and you'll get to play in the country's biggest arenas on the biggest stage." It may not be as marginally important to a school like Duke, who already plays a lot of games in NBA arenas, but I absolutely believe having the ACC Tournament in NBA arenas is a recruiting chip for schools like Clemson, Virginia Tech, Wake Forest, etc.

And it's still important to Duke - just check out how much social media attention they are paying to being in the "big city" this week.

All due respect, but that is a load. The draw is TV exposure and that can happen playing in Buies Creek if the cameras are there.

devildeac
03-09-2017, 06:10 PM
All due respect, but that is a load. The draw is TV exposure and that can happen playing in Buies Creek if the cameras are there.

Yea, but have you seen their gym?

:rolleyes:

Atlanta Duke
03-09-2017, 06:13 PM
Roy had some comments on locating the tournament in major metro areas to help recruiting

He was also asked if having the tournament in a big city helped with recruiting. He said it used to be more important, but it has been diminished by technologies like social media.

“It used to be much more so than I think it is now. Now everybody has got social media, and we don’t need “The New York Times” to find out what in the dickens is going on in the country,” Williams said.

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/unc/article137482113.html#storylink=cpy

Roy also had some additional observations on use of social media:)

vick
03-09-2017, 06:16 PM
All due respect, but that is a load. The draw is TV exposure and that can happen playing in Buies Creek if the cameras are there.

These things are pretty marginal, but it strikes me as strange to think that players thinking about their pro future wouldn't rather play in an NBA arena in New York City rather than the Greensboro Coliseum (I'm also puzzled at the idea expressed earlier in this thread that Greensboro would be the preference of UVa fans--I think UVa fans would clearly prefer DC).

throatybeard
03-09-2017, 06:21 PM
All due respect, but that is a load. The draw is TV exposure and that can happen playing in Buies Creek if the cameras are there.

I'm not coming back until the tournament is held in Lizard Lick.

throatybeard
03-09-2017, 06:34 PM
Roy had some comments on locating the tournament in major metro areas to help recruiting

He was also asked if having the tournament in a big city helped with recruiting. He said it used to be more important, but it has been diminished by technologies like social media.

“It used to be much more so than I think it is now. Now everybody has got social media, and we don’t need “The New York Times” to find out what in the dickens is going on in the country,” Williams said.

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/unc/article137482113.html#storylink=cpy

Roy also had some additional observations on use of social media:)

Roy is not in the dadgum Big Apple spirit.

Turk
03-09-2017, 06:40 PM
It's all musical chairs these days. If the ACC wants to hold the tournament in NYC, then book the Garden and let the disemboweled Big Least (no offense, Villanova) have Barclay's. As an out of towner, I don't think Barclay's is particularly convenient either.

And also, the A-10 tournament is in Pittsburgh this weekend. Unfortunately, it's a down year for the A-10 so I bet there's not much excitement. I've gone back for a couple of the NCAA 1st / 2nd rounds - the city does OK with it.

The Big Ten tournament is in DC - talk about cognitive dissonance. Makes my head hurt.

I am leaning toward attending the first ever Ivy "tournament" in the Palestra this weekend.

Mark Titus captured my conflicting emotions about conference tournaments:
https://theringer.com/five-story-lines-to-watch-in-this-years-college-basketball-conference-tournaments-dff48b513393#.tjysa0jii

Money quote: "...that’s what conference tournaments are really good for: They’re a warm-up for fans to get ready for the Big Dance. Just like the players need practice, we need to get in reps of calling off work or skipping class, drinking all day, lounging in a recliner for 12 straight hours, and yelling at referees who blow calls in the final seconds."

DU82
03-09-2017, 07:30 PM
Yea, but have you seen their gym?

:rolleyes:

It's much nicer than the dump Jimmy B. works in.

DU82
03-09-2017, 07:34 PM
It's all musical chairs these days. If the ACC wants to hold the tournament in NYC, then book the Garden and let the disemboweled Big Least (no offense, Villanova) have Barclay's. As an out of towner, I don't think Barclay's is particularly convenient either.

And also, the A-10 tournament is in Pittsburgh this weekend. Unfortunately, it's a down year for the A-10 so I bet there's not much excitement. I've gone back for a couple of the NCAA 1st / 2nd rounds - the city does OK with it.

The Big Ten tournament is in DC - talk about cognitive dissonance. Makes my head hurt.

I am leaning toward attending the first ever Ivy "tournament" in the Palestra this weekend.



IIRC, the A-10 is in Pittsburgh this weekend because the ACC made a deal to get them to vacate Brooklyn.

If you think the B1G in DC is cognitive dissonance, wait until they're in the Garden next year, with Rutgers as the host.

Ivy and tournament in the same sentence hurts, too.

Atlanta Duke
03-09-2017, 07:49 PM
IIRC, the A-10 is in Pittsburgh this weekend because the ACC made a deal to get them to vacate Brooklyn.

If you think the B1G in DC is cognitive dissonance, wait until they're in the Garden next year, with Rutgers as the host.

Ivy and tournament in the same sentence hurts, too.

B1G wants in to New York badly enough to move their tournament up one week since Big East has the Garden and ACC has Barclays booked.

But the ACC gets to take its best shot with tomorrow night's first game.

Start spreading the news: College basketball’s battle for New York is so on

Duke-North Carolina in New York. It’s not just about who reaches Saturday’s championship game. It’s about taking the spotlight of this massive city and steering it away from the hometown Big East and the waiting-in-the-wings Big Ten.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/start-spreading-the-news-college-basketballs-battle-for-new-york-is-so-on/2017/03/09/0ac1e600-0505-11e7-ad5b-d22680e18d10_story.html?utm_term=.df0a0b44c077

jimmymax
03-09-2017, 08:52 PM
Geographic midpoint: Laurel Fork, VA.

http://www.geomidpoint.com/?ml=36.68867&mn=-80.52248&l=42.33038|43.048122|38.029306|37.229573|35.994033 |35.77959|36.09986|35.9132|30.438256|34.683438|33. 748995|41.676355|25.76168|40.440625|38.252665&n=-71.166187|-76.147424|-78.476678|-80.413939|-78.898619|-78.638179|-80.244216|-79.055845|-84.280733|-82.837365|-84.387982|-86.25199|-80.19179|-79.995886|-85.758456&a=Chestnut+Hill,+Newton,+MA,+USA|Syracuse,+NY,+USA |Charlottesville,+VA,+USA|Blacksburg,+VA,+USA|Durh am,+NC,+USA|Raleigh,+NC,+USA|Winston-Salem,+NC,+USA|Chapel+Hill,+NC,+USA|Tallahassee,+F L,+USA|Clemson,+SC,+USA|Atlanta,+GA,+USA|South+Ben d,+IN,+USA|Miami,+FL,+USA|Pittsburgh,+PA,+USA|Loui sville,+KY,+USA&cl=36.02045&cn=-79.30235&z=7&x=1&c=0&p=1&r=0&w=0

Furniture
03-09-2017, 09:39 PM
I don't get it? If the stadium is full in GSO or anywhere else how can more money be made? TV money is the same either way. I am not from the Triad area even if I do live here now but I don't see how if GSO is the birthplace of the ACC how can it be discarded willy nilly.

YmoBeThere
03-10-2017, 03:40 AM
So why won't the league HQ move to NYC or DC, eventually? It could happen.

The next thing you'll say is the Cubs will win the World Series.


Oh wait, they did.

YmoBeThere
03-10-2017, 03:47 AM
The ACC doesn't care what you, one of the most loyal, informed, die-hard Duke/ACC fans, think of it being in NY vs Greensboro. They don't.

The ACC cares what my work colleague, Rich, thinks of it being in NY vs Greensboro. He went to Rutgers, grew up in Jersey, and has never been to a college basketball game in his life. While watching the game at my desk yesterday, he came over and asked "What is this?" After explaining (and bantering a bit), he soon asked where is it? I told him Brooklyn. He then asked if I had ever gone, to which I explained to him it's often in Greensboro or Atlanta so I can't usually make it (although I went to the tourney in Greensboro once and had a quite enjoyable time despite being physically assaulted by a drunk UNC fan to the point of bleeding). He asked where Greensboro was, then pondered a bit. He asked if it was a big city. He asked if it was a suburb of Charlotte, sort of like Anaheim and LA. Then he said, "you know, if Duke plays UNC Fri night, I'll go to the game with you - sounds like it would be fun."

By having the ACCT in places like Brooklyn (on a rotation), this is the exact type of prospective fan that the ACC is interested in. They want to expand interest, not satisfy existing interest.

This real-life example (from yesterday) is why the ACC probably believes places such as NY provide more $$ for the conference than a place such as Greensboro (that is already likely market saturated in the eyes of the ACC).

- Chillin

Actualy, they do care. Just not as much. If said loyalist gives up/quits caring because "perceived" abuse but the ACC gains the marginal fan, is the ACC now better off? Probably not. So, GSO will likely stay in the mix, just less frequently.

DevilHorse
03-10-2017, 07:52 AM
I watched the evening News Sports on several channels and the Big East got a mention, with St. Johns getting hammered by Villanova. Not one word about the ACC tournament in Brooklyn. If the ACC is going for exposure in NYC, they are not getting it early in the week through the ABC, NBC, CBS local outlets. There is some print media coverage. Not being treated as a big event. #14 vs. #10 play and not a mention..

Larry
DevilHorse

davekay1971
03-10-2017, 07:57 AM
Greensboro. Every year. Period.

It's called tradition, which I am aware that, to some extent, the ACC itself scrapped with the conference expansion/juggling. But this is still the ACC. Syracuse, and Jimmy Boeheim, came to the ACC, like rats leaving a sinking ship. MSG may have made the Big East (actually, it didn't: the rivalries between St Johns, Gtown, and Syracuse made the Big East, with a little help from Nova in 1985). But the Big East died and was re-invented as a good Mid-Major. The ACC was the best conference in basketball when the Big East flourished, was the best conference while the Big East was dying, then it ate the Big East, spat it out, and stepped over the remains, and it's the best conference now. And the ACC Tournament, especially when held in that nice little southern town of Greensboro, has always been the crown jewel of college basketball conference tournaments.

So, Jimmy Boeheim can take his sour grapes, his yankee superiority, and his failed conference, and shove it. MSG, an New York in general, didn't save the Big East. And the ACC Tournament doesn't need it.

Now GET OFF MY LAWN!

dukebluesincebirth
03-10-2017, 08:21 AM
I watched the evening News Sports on several channels and the Big East got a mention, with St. Johns getting hammered by Villanova. Not one word about the ACC tournament in Brooklyn. If the ACC is going for exposure in NYC, they are not getting it early in the week through the ABC, NBC, CBS local outlets. There is some print media coverage. Not being treated as a big event. #14 vs. #10 play and not a mention..

Larry
DevilHorse

Thanks for the local update, and making this point. NYC exposure seems to be a big argument for Brooklyn, but is anyone in NYC even looking? It's a lame part of the argument IMO.

duke74
03-10-2017, 08:31 AM
Greensboro. Every year. Period.


So, Jimmy Boeheim can take his sour grapes, his yankee superiority, and his failed conference, and shove it. *MSG, an New York in general, didn't save the Big East.* And the ACC Tournament doesn't need it.

Now GET OFF MY LAWN!

Philly, DC, and Boston also were included I think. And I think the demise was primarily caused by the lack of football at a number of the schools.

We are now from MA to FL. Times change and so do traditions. Old ones die and new ones evolve. Next we'll bemoan OADs.

Just my thoughts. (Yes, I am one of those "Yankees." -- Although I do prefer the Mets)

oldnavy
03-10-2017, 08:51 AM
Greensboro. Every year. Period.

It's called tradition, which I am aware that, to some extent, the ACC itself scrapped with the conference expansion/juggling. But this is still the ACC. Syracuse, and Jimmy Boeheim, came to the ACC, like rats leaving a sinking ship. MSG may have made the Big East (actually, it didn't: the rivalries between St Johns, Gtown, and Syracuse made the Big East, with a little help from Nova in 1985). But the Big East died and was re-invented as a good Mid-Major. The ACC was the best conference in basketball when the Big East flourished, was the best conference while the Big East was dying, then it ate the Big East, spat it out, and stepped over the remains, and it's the best conference now. And the ACC Tournament, especially when held in that nice little southern town of Greensboro, has always been the crown jewel of college basketball conference tournaments.

So, Jimmy Boeheim can take his sour grapes, his yankee superiority, and his failed conference, and shove it. MSG, an New York in general, didn't save the Big East. And the ACC Tournament doesn't need it.

Now GET OFF MY LAWN!

Awesome post. Thinly (well not really) veiled between the lines of his remarks is his disdain for southern culture and the history of ACC basketball. The Big East had its moment, but if it was so great why is Syracuse now in the ACC?

For him to say that there is NO VALUE in having the ACC tournament in Greensboro is wrong (as Mr. Featherstone pointed out brilliantly) and quite frankly ignorant. Ignorant in that it is wrong in fact, and ignorant that it reveals a side of his character that a wiser man would want to keep out of the public eye. Discretion and all that... he comes off as a bitter old man, who thinks that only his opinion has value and to think otherwise is, well stupid and misinformed... what is that called again??? Somebody help me out the word escapes me...

Now, I truly do not care what he thinks, but wouldn't you expect such a refined and sophisticated New Yorker such as Mr. Boeheim to be a bit more inclusive and accepting of other opinions, or is that just too much to ask?

jv001
03-10-2017, 08:55 AM
Geographic midpoint: Laurel Fork, VA.

http://www.geomidpoint.com/?ml=36.68867&mn=-80.52248&l=42.33038|43.048122|38.029306|37.229573|35.994033 |35.77959|36.09986|35.9132|30.438256|34.683438|33. 748995|41.676355|25.76168|40.440625|38.252665&n=-71.166187|-76.147424|-78.476678|-80.413939|-78.898619|-78.638179|-80.244216|-79.055845|-84.280733|-82.837365|-84.387982|-86.25199|-80.19179|-79.995886|-85.758456&a=Chestnut+Hill,+Newton,+MA,+USA|Syracuse,+NY,+USA |Charlottesville,+VA,+USA|Blacksburg,+VA,+USA|Durh am,+NC,+USA|Raleigh,+NC,+USA|Winston-Salem,+NC,+USA|Chapel+Hill,+NC,+USA|Tallahassee,+F L,+USA|Clemson,+SC,+USA|Atlanta,+GA,+USA|South+Ben d,+IN,+USA|Miami,+FL,+USA|Pittsburgh,+PA,+USA|Loui sville,+KY,+USA&cl=36.02045&cn=-79.30235&z=7&x=1&c=0&p=1&r=0&w=0

Laurel Fork, VA is the home of Olde Mill Golf Club. One of the best mountain courses in NC and VA and about 1 hour from Winston Salem, NC. I bet Coach Boeheim would hate driving on those mountain roads. Might cause him to get mad and throw his sport coat at the limo driver. GoDuke!

weezie
03-10-2017, 09:10 AM
Duke-North Carolina in New York. It’s not just about who reaches Saturday’s championship game. It’s about taking the spotlight of this massive city and steering it away from the hometown Big East and the waiting-in-the-wings Big Ten.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/start-spreading-the-news-college-basketballs-battle-for-new-york-is-so-on/2017/03/09/0ac1e600-0505-11e7-ad5b-d22680e18d10_story.html?utm_term=.df0a0b44c077

LOLOLOL that's funny. They've got a long wait, the old big10-11-12itiy.
Boy, if there's one thing you can count on, it's the lamest, windiest and most awful writing coming out of the wapo sports closet. They never disappoint.

FadedTackyShirt
03-10-2017, 09:46 AM
Inevitable end game appears to be four 16 team geographically shaky mega conferences. 64 is the magic number.

Would prefer eight 8 team regional conferences (round robin in football, double round robin in hoops). Absurd that Duke plays NCSU once every 7 years in football. Travel would be more sensible for student athletes with Thursday and Saturday hoops games. Sadly doubt there will be an NCAA Brexit anytime soon.

RPS
03-10-2017, 09:57 AM
Boy, if there's one thing you can count on, it's the lamest, windiest and most awful writing coming out of the wapo sports closet. They never disappoint.

Paging John Feinstein?

RPS
03-10-2017, 10:02 AM
I'm not coming back until the tournament is held in Lizard Lick.

If you build it, they will come.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwB7fRI-jp8

jv001
03-10-2017, 10:07 AM
This morning I was listening to Chris Spatola(sp?) on XM Radio interviewing Seth Greenberg. Seth said he thought it was a good idea not to have Greensboro as one of the sites for the ACCT. Chris told him that he was wrong because of the history of the ACC. Before Greenberg came on to the show, Chris was discussing this with his co-host and he made a point that I've not heard before. He said that NASCAR has tried to have many of their races in large mega market cities and it hasn't worked for them. He said that in some cities the race car venue has had to tear down parts of the seating area because they have not been able to sell tickets. He said that lack of interest in those cities has cost NASCAR dearly. I'm not a NASCAR fan, so I don't know much about what he said or even if it's true, but I did find it interesting. GoDuke!

CrazyNotCrazie
03-10-2017, 10:29 AM
As noted upthread, I am a New Yorker who wants Greensboro to stay in the mix frequently as I think it is a great venue, it is the geographic center of the conference and it has a lot of history. I wish there was a way to have it at MSG during the NY rotations, but the Big East was wise to hold onto the Garden - it looks like their contract is through 2026.

I went to Stubhub to gauge how interested New Yorkers are in the ACC Tournament. Tickets for tonight look to be starting at $165 for the upper corners and $350 for the lower bowl. I'm not sure what face was. I think the ACC lucked out with a) a Duke-UNC semi and b) Duke, UNC and Notre Dame being in the semis, as all three schools have significant alumni presences here, and are national draws as well.

RPS
03-10-2017, 10:29 AM
This morning I was listening to Chris Spatola(sp?) on XM Radio interviewing Seth Greenberg. Seth said he thought it was a good idea not to have Greensboro as one of the sites for the ACCT. Chris told him that he was wrong because of the history of the ACC. Before Greenberg came on to the show, Chris was discussing this with his co-host and he made a point that I've not heard before. He said that NASCAR has tried to have many of their races in large mega market cities and it hasn't worked for them. He said that in some cities the race car venue has had to tear down parts of the seating area because they have not been able to sell tickets. He said that lack of interest in those cities has cost NASCAR dearly. I'm not a NASCAR fan, so I don't know much about what he said or even if it's true, but I did find it interesting. GoDuke!

College basketball is not a regional thing. I live in San Diego. Hometown of Jimmie Johnson. But nobody here cares about NASCAR. I've lived here for 22 years and never met a single NASCAR fan, heard it discussed on any of the three (3!) local sports radio stations or seen it covered by any local media. I left Manhattan to come here and in my years working there and living in the area, I never met a single NASCAR fan, heard it discussed or saw it covered on local media. But local sports radio talked about today's Duke-Carolina game last night. It is being promo'ed aggressively on TV. People care.

I don't think NASCAR is a fair comparison to the ACC Tournament.

ChillinDuke
03-10-2017, 10:42 AM
Actualy, they do care. Just not as much. If said loyalist gives up/quits caring because "perceived" abuse but the ACC gains the marginal fan, is the ACC now better off? Probably not. So, GSO will likely stay in the mix, just less frequently.

That's fair. Agreed with both points.

I will add one final anecdotal point (and trying to be sensitive that I'm belaboring some of these more business-oriented views). Due to subway issues, I chose to walk home about 30 blocks last night around 730pm or so. As soon as I got out of the subway I saw a bar that had FSU-Va Tech on the TV. I stopped for a sec, (1) because we had been discussing the impacts of the ACCT playing in NY and (2) because it was the only channel on the three bar TVs. Since I think walking is ideal for multitasking, I decided to count the bars that were showing the ACCT. Of the ones that I could clearly see inside, I counted 35 bars out of (I think) 37 that were showing the ACCT. To be fair, many of them had the Big East Tournament on as well. But at least 5 only had the ACCT on, as far as I can tell (I never said I was good at multitasking.)

Now I don't work in this industry. Nor do I know what the TV lineups would have looked like for comparison say 5 years ago, or even 1 year ago. But that strikes me as the ACC making serious inroads, business-wise.

The Big East lost some of their biggest name teams, a few of which had serious connections to NYC. There is a chink in the armor, a bit of a void to fill. And the ACC is trying its darnedest to fill it. For what it's worth, the B1G is trying its darnedest too - by moving it's Tourney to DC this year and apparently NYC next year (one week earlier?! b/c Big East and ACC boxed them out of MSG and Brooklyn - coincidence that the ACC booked Barclays two years in a row? I think not). Competition.

I think the B1G is going to struggle to make inroads on the east coast - its school and fanbase is definitely more midwest centric. I just don't think that will resonate much up and down the Atlantic. But I do think the ACC is poised to take the Big East's incumbent seat in the northeast and sort of legacy title as "best basketball conference" even though that title is stale from a few years ago.

So to me, the ACC's challenge is to succeed in supplanting the Big East up north (and to a lesser extent national legacy wise - Big East basketball carved out a less obvious niche similar to the SEC in football) while also staying true to its roots. That's the challenge. So yes, I think Greensboro is going to stay in the rotation. I also think NY will never be a permanent location for the Tourney (and it shouldn't). But just like the old circus, the Greatest Show On Earth needs to travel around to satisfy its potentially vast fanbase - in the ACC's eyes.

- Chillin

jv001
03-10-2017, 10:50 AM
College basketball is not a regional thing. I live in San Diego. Hometown of Jimmie Johnson. But nobody here cares about NASCAR. I've lived here for 22 years and never met a single NASCAR fan, heard it discussed on any of the three (3!) local sports radio stations or seen it covered by any local media. I left Manhattan to come here and in my years working there and living in the area, I never met a single NASCAR fan, heard it discussed or saw it covered on local media. But local sports radio talked about today's Duke-Carolina game last night. It is being promo'ed aggressively on TV. People care.

I don't think NASCAR is a fair comparison to the ACC Tournament.

Probably not, but I can tell you that ACC basketball is a regional thing. Here in the Piedmont(Winston Salem, Greensboro and High Point) and in the Raleigh area it is big. It has always been big. Radio and TVs brought to school to listen and/or watch one of the Big Four Schools in action. College basketball trumps college football in North Carolina. The ACCT has a rich history but I don't know if it will continue to be as loved now that we have 15 schools in the ACC. I know that the unbalanced schedule is not well liked by many of my basketball friends. I just don't think taking the Tournament venue away from Greensboro is a good idea, but that's just my opinion. GoDuke!

RPS
03-10-2017, 11:24 AM
Probably not, but I can tell you that ACC basketball is a regional thing. Here in the Piedmont(Winston Salem, Greensboro and High Point) and in the Raleigh area it is big. It has always been big. Radio and TVs brought to school to listen and/or watch one of the Big Four Schools in action. College basketball trumps college football in North Carolina.

I went to Duke. My wife and our daughter went to Wake. I'm well aware of the regional power of ACC hoops. But, unlike NASCAR, it is much more than just a regional thing. The Packers are beyond huge in Wisconsin but people watch them all over the country.


The ACCT has a rich history but I don't know if it will continue to be as loved now that we have 15 schools in the ACC.

I have that exact concern.


I know that the unbalanced schedule is not well liked by many of my basketball friends.

I hate it (and I don't see why we don't get rid of it).


I just don't think taking the Tournament venue away from Greensboro is a good idea, but that's just my opinion. GoDuke!

As I said upthread, it depends on what you're after. I have no personal problem with G'boro.

flyingdutchdevil
03-10-2017, 11:32 AM
That's fair. Agreed with both points.

I will add one final anecdotal point (and trying to be sensitive that I'm belaboring some of these more business-oriented views). Due to subway issues, I chose to walk home about 30 blocks last night around 730pm or so. As soon as I got out of the subway I saw a bar that had FSU-Va Tech on the TV. I stopped for a sec, (1) because we had been discussing the impacts of the ACCT playing in NY and (2) because it was the only channel on the three bar TVs. Since I think walking is ideal for multitasking, I decided to count the bars that were showing the ACCT. Of the ones that I could clearly see inside, I counted 35 bars out of (I think) 37 that were showing the ACCT. To be fair, many of them had the Big East Tournament on as well. But at least 5 only had the ACCT on, as far as I can tell (I never said I was good at multitasking.)

Now I don't work in this industry. Nor do I know what the TV lineups would have looked like for comparison say 5 years ago, or even 1 year ago. But that strikes me as the ACC making serious inroads, business-wise.

The Big East lost some of their biggest name teams, a few of which had serious connections to NYC. There is a chink in the armor, a bit of a void to fill. And the ACC is trying its darnedest to fill it. For what it's worth, the B1G is trying its darnedest too - by moving it's Tourney to DC this year and apparently NYC next year (one week earlier?! b/c Big East and ACC boxed them out of MSG and Brooklyn - coincidence that the ACC booked Barclays two years in a row? I think not). Competition.

I think the B1G is going to struggle to make inroads on the east coast - its school and fanbase is definitely more midwest centric. I just don't think that will resonate much up and down the Atlantic. But I do think the ACC is poised to take the Big East's incumbent seat in the northeast and sort of legacy title as "best basketball conference" even though that title is stale from a few years ago.

So to me, the ACC's challenge is to succeed in supplanting the Big East up north (and to a lesser extent national legacy wise - Big East basketball carved out a less obvious niche similar to the SEC in football) while also staying true to its roots. That's the challenge. So yes, I think Greensboro is going to stay in the rotation. I also think NY will never be a permanent location for the Tourney (and it shouldn't). But just like the old circus, the Greatest Show On Earth needs to travel around to satisfy its potentially vast fanbase - in the ACC's eyes.

- Chillin

Great post. But let me focus on the bolded part. If the ACC doesn't supplant the Big East up north, then what the hell is the ACC doing wrong? Who are the powerhouses in the Big East? And how do you define powerhouse? If the definition is the school with a) large regional/national following, b) historically strong in a revenue-generating sport, and c) marketable alums who have advanced the program's status, then it's slim pickins (I'd also argue being a public school is a requirement, but it isn't and shouldn't be. But it certainly helps). Georgetown fits that bill, but they don't even have a football program. St. Johns has lost all relevance despite their incredible location. 'Nova is probably the closest thing, but they are smaller than Duke in a highly saturated market (Philly).

The ACC should be the conference of the Northeast, as it is the conference of the Atlantic Southeast. I think it's just a matter of time and getting one more powerhouse (UConn, for instance. Or Rutgers) to join.

throatybeard
03-10-2017, 11:35 AM
How much of the ACCT being on all the bar TVs in NYC was due to buzz about the ACCT, and how much of it was simply that it was on ESPN? ESPN is basically the default channel for such places, and it would be on everywhere even if the current programming were Stephen A Smith talking about Kevin Durant scratching his butt. Or if it were an ACCT held in Atlanta.

devildeac
03-10-2017, 11:40 AM
Great post. But let me focus on the bolded part. If the ACC doesn't supplant the Big East up north, then what the hell is the ACC doing wrong? Who are the powerhouses in the Big East? And how do you define powerhouse? If the definition is the school with a) large regional/national following, b) historically strong in a revenue-generating sport, and c) marketable alums who have advanced the program's status, then it's slim pickins (I'd also argue being a public school is a requirement, but it isn't and shouldn't be. But it certainly helps). Georgetown fits that bill, but they don't even have a football program. St. Johns has lost all relevance despite their incredible location. 'Nova is probably the closest thing, but they are smaller than Duke in a highly saturated market (Philly).

The ACC should be the conference of the Northeast, as it is the conference of the Atlantic Southeast. I think it's just a matter of time and getting one more powerhouse (UConn, for instance. Or Rutgers) to join.

Yes! Let's sign up Rutgers for their powerhouse MBB and FB! LOL.

(Not making fun of you-making fun of Rutgers, the NJSU. And yes, I'm from NJ so I can make fun of them. :p ;):o)

flyingdutchdevil
03-10-2017, 11:40 AM
How much of the ACCT being on all the bar TVs in NYC was due to buzz about the ACCT, and how much of it was simply that it was on ESPN? ESPN is basically the default channel for such places, and it would be on everywhere even if the current programming were Stephen A Smith talking about Kevin Durant scratching his butt. Or if it were an ACCT held in Atlanta.

Not NYC, where there is such a focus on pro-sports (I moved down here 5 months ago from Boston) and sports bars are very attentive to what is going on. While most cities have 1 pro team per sport, NYC has 2, meaning there is often a game on TV on one of the channels (and during the summer, at least half the TVs will be on the YES network)

Also, you've met New Yorkers, right? If they want the channel changed, someone will change the channel.

flyingdutchdevil
03-10-2017, 11:41 AM
Yes! Let's sign up Rutgers for their powerhouse MBB and FB! LOL.

(Not making fun of you-making fun of Rutgers, the NJSU. And yes, I'm from NJ so I can make fun of them. :p ;):o)

Lol. Using Rutgers as an example of a 16th school that helps to gather more Atlantic Coast attention.

RPS
03-10-2017, 11:59 AM
Yes! Let's sign up Rutgers for their powerhouse MBB and FB! LOL.

(Not making fun of you-making fun of Rutgers, the NJSU. And yes, I'm from NJ so I can make fun of them. :p ;):o)

And to think that when I was a student, we were known as the State University of New Jersey at Durham.

ChillinDuke
03-10-2017, 12:31 PM
How much of the ACCT being on all the bar TVs in NYC was due to buzz about the ACCT, and how much of it was simply that it was on ESPN? ESPN is basically the default channel for such places, and it would be on everywhere even if the current programming were Stephen A Smith talking about Kevin Durant scratching his butt. Or if it were an ACCT held in Atlanta.

There's definitely some truth to what you say. But I do agree with FDD that there is often a dedicated individual in many NYC bars that is supposed to have the TV programming lined up every single day. Yeah, I know...

- Chillin

ChillinDuke
03-10-2017, 12:58 PM
Great post. But let me focus on the bolded part. If the ACC doesn't supplant the Big East up north, then what the hell is the ACC doing wrong? Who are the powerhouses in the Big East? And how do you define powerhouse? If the definition is the school with a) large regional/national following, b) historically strong in a revenue-generating sport, and c) marketable alums who have advanced the program's status, then it's slim pickins (I'd also argue being a public school is a requirement, but it isn't and shouldn't be. But it certainly helps). Georgetown fits that bill, but they don't even have a football program. St. Johns has lost all relevance despite their incredible location. 'Nova is probably the closest thing, but they are smaller than Duke in a highly saturated market (Philly).

The ACC should be the conference of the Northeast, as it is the conference of the Atlantic Southeast. I think it's just a matter of time and getting one more powerhouse (UConn, for instance. Or Rutgers) to join.

I agree completely with the tone of your post. And I think there's a simple answer to the your subject/question bolded up top.

If the ACC doesn't supplant the Big East up north, it is likely because it is not doing enough to target the northeast market. But in reality, it is...by hosting the ACCT in a place like Barclays. And now further enhanced by a marquee nationally marketed game in Duke-UNC in Brooklyn.

The only easy way that I could foresee the ACC not supplanting the Big East is by continually hosting its Tourney in Greensboro and not caring about the branding and attention outside of its old, traditional footprint in the Carolinas, Georgia, and Virginia.

- Chillin

FadedTackyShirt
03-10-2017, 01:20 PM
PAC-12 holds their tournament in Las Vegas. It's centrally located and within the geographic footprint. Incrementally builds TV interest in an unserved PAC media market. Adding UNLV would dilute not grow the $s per conference schools.

ACC has a similar problem in the Northeast. Villanova and Georgetown would add major media markets, but they don't play football. UConn dilutes rather than adds. B1G generates too many $s for Rutgers, Penn State, or Maryland to jump.

Looking South, Florida and Georgia would grow partially served markets, but SEC earns more. Tennessee is unserved, but UT wouldn't jump and Vandy dilutes. WVU would jump, but doesn't add much.

Playing the ACCT in NYC, Chicago, Philly, or DC isn't optimal for fans or traditionalists, but incrementally adds share in unserved markets.

BandAlum83
03-10-2017, 01:26 PM
Yes! Let's sign up Rutgers for their powerhouse MBB and FB! LOL.

(Not making fun of you-making fun of Rutgers, the NJSU. And yes, I'm from NJ so I can make fun of them. :p ;):o)

SAY IT AIN'T SO!!!

You mean to tel me that Rutgers is the New Jersey State University?

But. But. But. They have such an Ivy sounding name!

brumby041
03-10-2017, 01:27 PM
As far as Boeheim's opinion - bless his little yankee heart! Ya know Jimmy, it's beside the point, but Greensboro has twice the population of Syracuse.

I was thinking the same thing when I was watching Boeheim bloviate. The guy from Syracuse is ragging on Greensboro? I'll take G'boro all day!

I think he was just salty because they lost. Reminds me of Sweaty Gary. He moaned and whined for years about how unfair it was to the Terps to have the tourney in NC (Greensboro) every year. Then, the ACC listened and had the tourney in DC. The Terps lost the very first game. I loved it!

Now, the tourney goes to NY, and the team from NY loses the first game. :p

flyingdutchdevil
03-10-2017, 01:27 PM
PAC-12 holds their tournament in Las Vegas. It's centrally located and within the geographic footprint. Incrementally builds TV interest in an unserved PAC media market. Adding UNLV would dilute not grow the $s per conference schools.

ACC has a similar problem in the Northeast. Villanova and Georgetown would add major media markets, but they don't play football. UConn dilutes rather than adds. B1G generates too many $s for Rutgers, Penn State, or Maryland to jump.

Looking South, Florida and Georgia would grow partially served markets, but SEC earns more. Tennessee is unserved, but UT wouldn't jump and Vandy dilutes. WVU would jump, but doesn't add much.

Playing the ACCT in NYC, Chicago, Philly, or DC isn't optimal for fans or traditionalists, but incrementally adds share in unserved markets.

Can you explain UConn? Connecticut has a population of just under 3.6 million and a GDP of $253 billion. By comparison, South Carolina has a population of 4.8 million and a GDP of $201 billion. And Clemson has to share the state with USC.

UConn is the only real school supported by Connecticut residents. I know this cus I work in New Haven and no one cares about Yale sports.

UConn is a perfect addition to the ACC. But BC ha their reason, and I can't blame them.

devildeac
03-10-2017, 01:33 PM
And to think that when I was a student, we were known as the State University of New Jersey at Durham.

Same with me.

Trivia question: Where does NJ rank 1-10 on the number of students sent to Duke annually?

(I can answer that from the lists I looked at about 5-10 years ago but can't tell you historically.:o)

CrazyNotCrazie
03-10-2017, 01:44 PM
Same with me.

Trivia question: Where does NJ rank 1-10 on the number of students sent to Duke annually?

(I can answer that from the lists I looked at about 5-10 years ago but can't tell you historically.:o)

NJ is fifth. I would have guessed NY and NC being ahead of it. I feel like CA, TX and FL are a lot higher than they were back in my day.

http://admissions.duke.edu/images/uploads/process/DukeClass2019Profile.pdf

OldPhiKap
03-10-2017, 01:45 PM
I was thinking the same thing when I was watching Boeheim bloviate. The guy from Syracuse is ragging on Greensboro? I'll take G'boro all day!

I think he was just salty because they lost. Reminds me of Sweaty Gary. He moaned and whined for years about how unfair it was to the Terps to have the tourney in NC (Greensboro) every year. Then, the ACC listened and had the tourney in DC. The Terps lost the very first game. I loved it!

Now, the tourney goes to NY, and the team from NY loses the first game. :p

Lefty Driesel once said that if Maryland won the ACC Tourney, he would bolt the trophy to the roof of his car and drive it around North Carolina.

BandAlum83
03-10-2017, 01:46 PM
Lefty Driesel once said that if Maryland won the ACC Tourney, he would bolt the trophy to the roof of his car and drive it around North Carolina.

I love that quote.

Of course, as a Duke alum and player, he understood the whole NC thing!

devildeac
03-10-2017, 01:49 PM
NJ is fifth. I would have guessed NY and NC being ahead of it. I feel like CA, TX and FL are a lot higher than they were back in my day.

http://admissions.duke.edu/images/uploads/process/DukeClass2019Profile.pdf

Nice work. One of the years from 2003-11 when we had kids there, I think NJ was #10, so the Garden State is "movin' on up.";)

devildeac
03-10-2017, 01:51 PM
Lefty Driesel once said that if Maryland won the ACC Tourney, he would bolt the trophy to the roof of his car and drive it around North Carolina.

And, one of the c*rolina ADs said that they'd hang a banner if any "championships" were ever designated before the MBB NCAAT actually started. :rolleyes:

CrazyNotCrazie
03-10-2017, 01:59 PM
Nice work. One of the years from 2003-11 when we had kids there, I think NJ was #10, so the Garden State is "movin' on up.";)

As a NJ native who graduated in the 90s, I'm pretty sure we were somewhere around 5 when I was there - it was never hard to find a ride home for the holidays and, too loosely quote Simon and Garfunkel, I enjoyed counting the Duke stickers on the NJ Turnpike!

Not to take this thread too far off target, but in looking for that data, I found this as well. Nothing that I was not aware of, but depressing nevertheless - my kids are due to hit college right in time for the next doubling of tuition.

https://library.duke.edu/rubenstein/uarchives/history/articles/statistics

FadedTackyShirt
03-10-2017, 02:03 PM
Can you explain UConn? Connecticut has a population of just under 3.6 million and a GDP of $253 billion. By comparison, South Carolina has a population of 4.8 million and a GDP of $201 billion. And Clemson has to share the state with USC.

UConn is the only real school supported by Connecticut residents. I know this cus I work in New Haven and no one cares about Yale sports.

UConn is a perfect addition to the ACC. But BC ha their reason, and I can't blame them.

Thanks for fleshing out the data. My assumption was that UConn would add Boston (already partially served), Metro NY (also partially served), and that CT alone is not a huge market.

San Diego's a major market, but already partially served, so unserved Colorado and Utah added more. Texas, Oklahoma, TCU, and Okie State would grow the PAC pie; SDSU and UNLV, not so much.

Other than prying away an SEC or B1G school, ACC doesn't have options other than UConn or WVU.

davekay1971
03-10-2017, 02:04 PM
Philly, DC, and Boston also were included I think. And I think the demise was primarily caused by the lack of football at a number of the schools.

We are now from MA to FL. Times change and so do traditions. Old ones die and new ones evolve. Next we'll bemoan OADs.

Just my thoughts. (Yes, I am one of those "Yankees." -- Although I do prefer the Mets)

I was being a little facetious in my post (but not much). I do think the ACC Tournament is best when it's held in Greensboro. North Carolinians, as a population, love the ACC and are passionate about ACC basketball in a way that the general population of New York, Boston, and Philadelphia (and even DC) can't begin to imagine, much less replicate. When the ACC Tournament is in Greensboro, for those of us who love the history of the conference, it is easy to feel the memory of previous ACC tournaments in that coliseum, and the passion of the fans in the arena is palpable.

And how is the conference hurt by holding the event in Greensboro? In terms of TV viewership, there is no downside to Greensboro - ESPN reaches just as many TV sets broadcast from there as it does broadcast from MSG or Brooklyn or Miami. I guess the tournament could fill a bigger coliseum, but how much does that matter with TV dollars being the big driver of conference income? Certainly a lot of fans from other parts of the conference might prefer a long weekend in New York or DC or Miami, but there are also plenty of fans who would enjoy getting a feel of the flavor of the heart of the ACC.

Not to pick on MSG, which is an arena a tremendous history. So do many other arenas up and down the East Coast. But the ACC Tournament doesn't need to tap into the history of MSG, or any other arena, the way that the Big East tournament did when that conference was young. The ACC Tournament has history that MSG, as great as it is, can't begin to match. So the ACC lends its history to the arena in which the tournament is held, not vice versa.

Boeheim's problem with Greensboro, even though he's too chicken to admit it, is the same as Gary Williams', and the same as any other coach who has to contend with coaching a team not named Duke or UNC in the ACC. You're already looking up at those giants. Holding the conference in their back yard seems like insult added to injury. My response to Boeheim is simple, and I think it should be the response of the ACC: I don't care.

The history of this conference was built on the backs of Duke, UNC, and NC State. Without Everett Case, Frank McGuire, and Vic Bubas, Jim Boeheim doesn't get to enjoy the prestige and respect of coaching that is reflected on him by coaching in a tournament made great by those men. After those three were done, the ACC, and its tournament, were elevated further by Dean Smith, Jimmy V, Coach K (and, stretching outside of North Carolina, Lefty and Cremins). Boeheim is enjoying the honor of coaching in a conference and tournament made great by those men. And none of that, not one moment of it, happened in New York or Boston. It happened mostly in North Carolina...and in Greensboro.

I'd love to see the tournament have Greensboro as a permanent home. Boeheim might learn to love the BBQ...or at least he can get a little North Carolina corn squeezins to ease his pain after his team is bounced in the first round...again.

ChillinDuke
03-10-2017, 02:21 PM
Can you explain UConn? Connecticut has a population of just under 3.6 million and a GDP of $253 billion. By comparison, South Carolina has a population of 4.8 million and a GDP of $201 billion. And Clemson has to share the state with USC.

UConn is the only real school supported by Connecticut residents. I know this cus I work in New Haven and no one cares about Yale sports.

UConn is a perfect addition to the ACC. But BC ha their reason, and I can't blame them.

This wasn't directed at me, but I'll try it.

Essentially because conference realignment is all about football. Basketball doesn't hold a candle to football in that regard. So UConn would have to add football appeal, and it pretty much doesn't in any way (to my knowledge). The ACC is probably holding out for a better football fit (monetarily) by either (a) an organic team arises that isn't in a major conference (e.g. Temple - although I'm not saying we'd want them, but that type of program progression), (b) contract renegotiations level the monetary playing field or give the ACC more leverage for poaching other major conferences (e.g. - Penn State), or (c) realignment rekindles and one of the other conferences finds itself unraveling (e.g. - Big 12).

The ACC is enjoying a period of relative stability on the realignment front and taking advantage by having the National Champ in college football and an outstanding basketball season. To the extent that realignment stays quiet, I think the conference is in no rush to make any hasty / questionable decisions. Now, if it picks back up again, in the current contract state, I wouldn't be shocked to see the ACC make a snap decision - potentially on UConn. But I could also see Cincy.

- Chillin

BandAlum83
03-10-2017, 02:23 PM
What will an expansion of the ACC Broadcast network mean in $ to the ACC member schools? The viewing maps we see before every game saturate the southeast, but not other markets. Being picked up in othe cities could mean $.

How is the new ACC Cable network going to work? Again here, higher ratings in other markets will hellp ACC member schools with additional $.

I would think having the ACC tournament in venues other than Greensboro can help that .

Thurber Whyte
03-10-2017, 02:33 PM
Jim Boeheim is being a chauvinist for one particular tradition. To me it is not an either or situation. Integrating the refugees from the old Big East and succeeding as a conference in their traditional territory requires a nod to their tradition. That tradition is one that is starkly opposed to the old ACC’s. The Big East, at its inception, was a made for TV conference with many schools playing in NBA or other downtown civic arenas and it self consciously tried to market itself as a pro style league. I hated everything about that culture, but it did work for them. The old Big East went off the rails only when it tried to create a made for TV football conference, which, being made for TV, did not entirely share the same teams and the two sides stopped speaking to one another. It makes sense for the expanded ACC to embrace part of that tradition as it takes in those teams and their territories. However, we certainly should not altogether discard the original ACC’s tradition, which embraces college sports as college sports and emphasizes local rivalries. Greensboro is still within easy driving distance of half the teams. In the Austria-Hungary that is the new ACC, we need to alternate the tournament between two capitals, one in Greensboro and the other in New York City with a few other locations mixed in for color.

With New York City as a site, you have to define success. Almost all of the fans in the building have to get their tickets through their respective schools and local sports fans need not apply so box office sales are not and applicable concept. Deciding where to hold the tournament is really more like deciding where to hold a convention: it is about whether the attendees enjoy the experience rather than putting up a big tent and trying to draw the locals in. Heck, four conferences, including the PAC 12 are holding their tournaments in Las Vegas this year. There are plenty of people who follow and appreciate college sports in New York City. However, there are always multiple sporting events going on at the same time so, while it may indeed generate some local buzz and excitement, it is never going to be the case that the event moves in and takes over the entire city for the weekend. I am not sure the Super Bowl completely did that.


B1G wants in to New York badly enough to move their tournament up one week since Big East has the Garden and ACC has Barclays booked.

But the ACC gets to take its best shot with tomorrow night's first game.

Start spreading the news: College basketball’s battle for New York is so on

Duke-North Carolina in New York. It’s not just about who reaches Saturday’s championship game. It’s about taking the spotlight of this massive city and steering it away from the hometown Big East and the waiting-in-the-wings Big Ten.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/start-spreading-the-news-college-basketballs-battle-for-new-york-is-so-on/2017/03/09/0ac1e600-0505-11e7-ad5b-d22680e18d10_story.html?utm_term=.df0a0b44c077

Which is ceding its place during Championship Week in order to compete for TV ratings with the Atlantic Sun and America East Conferences. Sounds right to me!

FadedTackyShirt
03-10-2017, 03:00 PM
What will an expansion of the ACC Broadcast network mean in $ to the ACC member schools? The viewing maps we see before every game saturate the southeast, but not other markets. Being picked up in othe cities could mean $.

How is the new ACC Cable network going to work? Again here, higher ratings in other markets will hellp ACC member schools with additional $.

I would think having the ACC tournament in venues other than Greensboro can help that .

ACCT in NYC has way more to do with skimming future ACC Network subscribers than butts in the seats. Most ACC sports fans in NC may want the ACCT in Greensboro, but not too many will boycott the ACC Network because the ACCT was held in NYC or DC.

Individual school shares from Big Ten and SEC networks are so large that schools in those conferences can't even contemplate leaving. An ACC Network bigger than the geographical foot prints puts the conference in a more competitive position.

throatybeard
03-10-2017, 03:32 PM
In the Austria-Hungary that is the new ACC, we need to alternate the tournament between two capitals, one in Greensboro and the other in New York City with a few other locations mixed in for color.



Top comment.

hallcity
03-10-2017, 03:50 PM
ACCT in NYC has way more to do with skimming future ACC Network subscribers than butts in the seats. Most ACC sports fans in NC may want the ACCT in Greensboro, but not too many will boycott the ACC Network because the ACCT was held in NYC or DC.

Individual school shares from Big Ten and SEC networks are so large that schools in those conferences can't even contemplate leaving. An ACC Network bigger than the geographical foot prints puts the conference in a more competitive position.

I've heard that but could you explain how holding the tournament in Brooklyn convinces cable operators to pay boatloads of money to carry the ACC network? What relationship could there possibly be between these two matters? Does anyone think the NYC is agog because the ACC tournament is in town? The NY Times today had only the tiniest piece on the ACC Tournament as part of a roundup of college BB tournaments.

OldPhiKap
03-10-2017, 04:00 PM
I've heard that but could you explain how holding the tournament in Brooklyn convinces cable operators to pay boatloads of money to carry the ACC network? What relationship could there possibly be between these two matters? Does anyone think the NYC is agog because the ACC tournament is in town? The NY Times today had only the tiniest piece on the ACC Tournament as part of a roundup of college BB tournaments.

1. Have tournament in New York City.

2. ??????

3. Make money!

RPS
03-10-2017, 04:17 PM
What will an expansion of the ACC Broadcast network mean in $ to the ACC member schools?

For what it's worth, I can routinely get ACC Network Duke games here in San Diego, sometimes even on the local CBS affiliate. With no effort other than searching "Duke" on my local cable service, I see all but 2-3 Duke basketball games per season.

Turk
03-10-2017, 06:22 PM
With New York City as a site, you have to define success. Almost all of the fans in the building have to get their tickets through their respective schools and local sports fans need not apply so box office sales are not and applicable concept. Deciding where to hold the tournament is really more like deciding where to hold a convention: it is about whether the attendees enjoy the experience rather than putting up a big tent and trying to draw the locals in.


The convention analogy is spot on. In March, I want to escape the frozen (?) tundra of Pennsylvania for someplace where I can bring my golf clubs, if not shorts and flip-flops, make fun of the locals, and otherwise overindulge like an ignorant tourist. As for New York City, I would love a palace coup where the ACCT can steal MSG; other than that, Barclay's and NYC just doesn't cut it for me; you can find multiple excuses to go to the big city over the course of a year. And yes, NYC didn't even notice when they had the Supe at the Meadowlands, not even when they blocked off a chunk of Broadway for one of those Fan Ripoff "experiences" (as in "let's experience frostbite in 20 degree weather with the wind howling downriver, or let's experience getting suffocated AND stampeded at Secaucus train station").

I went to the ACCT when they held it in Tampa in 2007; it was almost invisible except to the hard core hoop heads. The sports section (back when they used to print newspapers) had four pages of spring training, two pages of spring football (college AND high school!), a page of golf, and a page of basketball crammed up against the box scores and agate type. Tampa is a fun city and we had a blast, but I think it's a better basketball experience when the ACCT is the only game in town. I look forward to someday going to the ACCT in GBoro one of these years. Charlotte seems like a nice compromise for those who prefer a bigger city.

Olympic Fan
03-10-2017, 06:39 PM
And how is the conference hurt by holding the event in Greensboro? In terms of TV viewership, there is no downside to Greensboro - ESPN reaches just as many TV sets broadcast from there as it does broadcast from MSG or Brooklyn or Miami. I guess the tournament could fill a bigger coliseum, but how much does that matter with TV dollars being the big driver of conference income? Certainly a lot of fans from other parts of the conference might prefer a long weekend in New York or DC or Miami, but there are also plenty of fans who would enjoy getting a feel of the flavor of the heart of the ACC.

Actually, the Greensboro Coliseum (23,500) IS the bigger coliseum -- by a wide margin over Brooklyn (18,100).

At $398 for a ticket book, those 5,400 less seats are costing the ACC more than $2.1 million in ticket revenue. That's not insignificant.

And when you factor in that the ACC is paying a MUCH higher rental fee in Brooklyn than in Greensboro, it's clear that playing in New York is costing the ACC a LOT of revenue.

Despite all the hysteria with Beoheim and the anti-Boeheim faction (which I admit I have contributed to), I think most of us rationally understand that the tournament needs to move around the conference so that fans all over the region are served.

But that rotation has to include Greensboro (or Charlotte). There are four schools -- more than a fourth of the league -- located within an hour of Greensboro. There are seven schools (add the two in Virginia and the one at Clemson) within three hours of Greensboro. Reasonably, close to half the tournaments should be in Greensboro ... with a quarter to the North (Washington or New York) and a quarter to the South (Atlanta). Stay the hell out of Florida! Maybe an occasional tournament is someplace like Indianapolis (close to Notre Dame and Louisville).

The worst part of Boeheim's rant is the assumption that the only things that matter are those that happen in a big city. That attitude is one of the reasons so much of the rest of the country hates New York City.

throatybeard
03-10-2017, 11:13 PM
Brooklyn. Definitely in Brooklyn.

Henderson
03-11-2017, 03:53 PM
North Carolinians, as a population, love the ACC and are passionate about ACC basketball in a way that the general population of New York, Boston, and Philadelphia (and even DC) can't begin to imagine, much less replicate.

This reminds me of an interview I saw on TV once with a street vendor in lower Manhattan. He was selling hot pretzels.

Vendor: "We got the best pretzels anywhere in the world right here in New York. Paris, London, Germany, France, I don't care. We got the best in the world right here."

Interviewer: "So you've sampled pretzels all over the world?"

Vendor: "Nah, I ain't been north of 125th. But I went to a wedding in Queens."

Devilwin
03-11-2017, 04:16 PM
Greensboro, then Atlanta, then Miami, then Charlotte.
Greensboro, WDC, Brooklyn, Atlanta, Charlotte.

sagegrouse
03-11-2017, 04:27 PM
Boy, if there's one thing you can count on, it's the lamest, windiest and most awful writing coming out of the wapo sports closet. They never disappoint.


Paging John Feinstein?
Barry Svrluga is a Duke guy and the WaPo's national baseball writer.

davekay1971
03-11-2017, 04:43 PM
This reminds me of an interview I saw on TV once with a street vendor in lower Manhattan. He was selling hot pretzels.

Vendor: "We got the best pretzels anywhere in the world right here in New York. Paris, London, Germany, France, I don't care. We got the best in the world right here."

Interviewer: "So you've sampled pretzels all over the world?"

Vendor: "Nah, I ain't been north of 125th. But I went to a wedding in Queens."

Except I've been to college hoops games played in Washington, DC, Philadelphia, and NY (never Boston) and the atmosphere sucked compared to Greensboro. Some places just do a given sport better. Green Bay does pro football better than Charlotte. Philadelphia does pro hockey better than Raleigh. North Carolina does college basketball.

Reilly
03-11-2017, 04:48 PM
... Some places just do a given sport better ...

Amen. Fit and authenticity. Same concept applies to certain foods.

Henderson
03-11-2017, 05:11 PM
Except I've been to college hoops games played in Washington, DC, Philadelphia, and NY (never Boston) and the atmosphere sucked compared to Greensboro. Some places just do a given sport better. Green Bay does pro football better than Charlotte. Philadelphia does pro hockey better than Raleigh. North Carolina does college basketball.


Greensboro is better because when you went to places far from home you didn't like them as much? That's how you know that Greensboro is better? Some people go to Paris and hate the food, because they like the food at home in Des Moines better. Fine. But they don't usually say the food in Paris sucks on that basis. It's always a bit suspicious when someone from Texas says no one does BBQ as well as Texas or when someone from Greece says no country has beaches that good.

I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just expressing skepticism about the remarkably confident categorical statement of North Carolina's supremacy, given your place of residence. And given the tens of thousands of basketball games and hundreds of arenas you've never been to, I respectfully suggest you consider your rather small sample size in addition to one's natural tendency personally to favor one's home in making parochial judgments.

davekay1971
03-11-2017, 05:23 PM
Greensboro is better because when you went to places far from home you didn't like them as much? That's how you know that Greensboro is better? Some people go to Paris and hate the food, because they like the food at home in Des Moines better. Fine. But they don't usually say the food in Paris sucks on that basis. It's always a bit suspicious when someone from Texas says no one does BBQ as well as Texas or when someone from Greece says no country has beaches that good.

I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just expressing skepticism about the remarkably confident categorical statement of North Carolina's supremacy, given your place of residence. And given the tens of thousands of basketball games and hundreds of arenas you've never been to, I respectfully suggest you consider your rather small sample size in addition to one's natural tendency personally to favor one's home in making parochial judgments.

How dare you request facts to support my opinions! I said it vehemently. We all know that a vehement assertion makes an opinion become fact. Especially if that opinion is mine.

To that point, here's John Swofford on the phone now to beg my forgiveness and apologize for the whole Brooklyn fiasco. While I've got him on the line I think I'll give him my 2 cents worth about the whole UNC cheating thing. Please resume your silly discussion, DBR, not that there's any point in it. I have spoken.

lotusland
03-11-2017, 05:26 PM
I propose adding Greenville, SC to the mix.

There's the Clemson connection.
It's along I-85 and pretty centrally located.
It's hosting NCAAs this year {Thanks HB2 :)}
There are a ton of downtown restaurants withing walking distance.

And most importantly...
I live 10 minutes away from the arena.

Why not Charleston then? Boeheim probably doesn't know the difference between Greenville and Greensboro but who doesn't love Chucktown? It's about a 20 minute drive from my house but, honestly, I probably still wouldn't go. I have pretty nice TV and it's super convenient! Attended few ACC tournaments in Charlotte in the early 90s which was nice but I can see better in my den. Brooklyn is fine with me. Seems like UNC has less of an advantage there so I'm all for it.

Henderson
03-11-2017, 05:37 PM
How dare you request facts to support my opinions! I said it vehemently. We all know that a vehement assertion makes an opinion become fact. Especially if that opinion is mine.

To that point, here's John Swofford on the phone now to beg my forgiveness and apologize for the whole Brooklyn fiasco. While I've got him on the line I think I'll give him my 2 cents worth about the whole UNC cheating thing. Please resume your silly discussion, DBR, not that there's any point in it. I have spoken.

Screw all that. North Carolina BBQ is better than Texas BBQ, basketball in Vegas sucks despite the new arena, and it's a Crime Against Nature to locate a hockey team (or the Oakland Raiders) in the desert.

Here ends the epistle.

NSDukeFan
03-11-2017, 05:39 PM
I suggest Halifax. An extra time zone in towards the Atlantic Ocean, so definitely qualifies on the Atlantic coast part. Currently hosting the Canadian University championship and used to be the permanent host for this tournament. No HB2 concerns. I would get to more games. Just a thought. 😀

OldPhiKap
03-11-2017, 05:41 PM
Screw all that. North Carolina BBQ is better than Texas BBQ, basketball in Vegas sucks despite the new arena, and it's a Crime Against Nature to locate a hockey team (or the Oakland Raiders) in the desert.

Here ends the epistle.

Y'know, I've been through the desert on a horse with no name.

Then I named the horse.

Not much to report after doing that, really.

Indoor66
03-11-2017, 05:54 PM
How about the BB&T Arena in Sunrise, FL? That is not too far from me.

lotusland
03-11-2017, 05:58 PM
This wasn't directed at me, but I'll try it.

Essentially because conference realignment is all about football. Basketball doesn't hold a candle to football in that regard. So UConn would have to add football appeal, and it pretty much doesn't in any way (to my knowledge). The ACC is probably holding out for a better football fit (monetarily) by either (a) an organic team arises that isn't in a major conference (e.g. Temple - although I'm not saying we'd want them, but that type of program progression), (b) contract renegotiations level the monetary playing field or give the ACC more leverage for poaching other major conferences (e.g. - Penn State), or (c) realignment rekindles and one of the other conferences finds itself unraveling (e.g. - Big 12).

The ACC is enjoying a period of relative stability on the realignment front and taking advantage by having the National Champ in college football and an outstanding basketball season. To the extent that realignment stays quiet, I think the conference is in no rush to make any hasty / questionable decisions. Now, if it picks back up again, in the current contract state, I wouldn't be shocked to see the ACC make a snap decision - potentially on UConn. But I could also see Cincy.

- Chillin

But football money is drying up. I have a working theory that football already peaked. The concussion issue is huge and won't go away imo. Millennials don't show the same interest as we did coming up in the 70s and 80s. They'll watch on tv if it's free but I don't see them paying thousands a year to booster clubs for tickets and parking places. So my theory follows that the next conference realignment will be back to regional conferences that make sense geographically. Without the huge football payouts it won't make sense for Miami's Golf team to travel to BC for a match. Likewise for WV's volleyball team to play at Nebraska or South Carolina's swim team to fly to college Station for a meet. So I say enjoy the tournaments in NYC, Phillly, Boston and Miami while they last.

Henderson
03-11-2017, 06:03 PM
Once the ACC expands to 87 teams, including the University of Taipei and Zhengzhou Polytechnic (Go Tigers!), my backyard will be a very central location for the tourney. And no, you can't sleep on the sofa. It will be repurposed as a luxury suite, and Molly McGrath has called dibs.

Green Wave Dukie
03-11-2017, 06:06 PM
How about the BB&T Arena in Sunrise, FL? That is not too far from me.

I'm all for it. I was one of the Project Managers when that building was built in 1998. Love to return to see it - and Duke in it. And with it being a sports arena, as has been pointed out elsewhere, the ceiling is (pretty much) the roof.

(** Minor quibble Indoor, think it is now actually called the BB&T Center)

sagegrouse
03-11-2017, 06:09 PM
Screw all that. North Carolina BBQ is better than Texas BBQ, basketball in Vegas sucks despite the new arena, and it's a Crime Against Nature to locate a hockey team (or the Oakland Raiders) in the desert.

Here ends the epistle.

Or the Deep South.

Vegas, for what it's worth, had conference tournaments today at THREE DIFFERENT ARENAS: Thomas and Mack Center (Mt. West), T-Mobile Arena (PAC-12) and Orleans Arena (WAC).

I don't discount Vegas as a future hub of college hoops.

BandAlum83
03-11-2017, 06:58 PM
I'm all for it. I was one of the Project Managers when that building was built in 1998. Love to return to see it - and Duke in it. And with it being a sports arena, as has been pointed out elsewhere, the ceiling is (pretty much) the roof.

(** Minor quibble Indoor, think it is now actually called the BB&T Center)

I took Mrs Bandalum on a South Florida getaway that included a stop at Sunrise for Justin Timberlake's 20/20 tour. Incredible concert.



I digress....2 more hours...I'm going crazy.

flyingdutchdevil
03-13-2017, 09:30 AM
Tournament should never be held in New York! Thank God Duke doesn't have to play in New York again this year! ;)

devildeac
03-13-2017, 09:36 AM
I suggest Halifax. An extra time zone in towards the Atlantic Ocean, so definitely qualifies on the Atlantic coast part. Currently hosting the Canadian University championship and used to be the permanent host for this tournament. No HB2 concerns. I would get to more games. Just a thought. ��

I'd go along with Portland or Freeport, ME. Better beers. But, I like your thinking. ;)

devildeac
03-13-2017, 09:38 AM
Y'know, I've been through the desert on a horse with no name.

Then I named the horse.

Not much to report after doing that, really.

Ahh, Living in America.

Or, am I mixing metaphors again? :o

Indoor66
03-13-2017, 10:07 AM
...and for unc as well. They want it in Greensboro or Raleigh, because they always return home after each game, so the players can attend class.

Now that's a major oxymoron! 😂😎

ChillinDuke
03-13-2017, 10:31 AM
But football money is drying up. I have a working theory that football already peaked. The concussion issue is huge and won't go away imo. Millennials don't show the same interest as we did coming up in the 70s and 80s. They'll watch on tv if it's free but I don't see them paying thousands a year to booster clubs for tickets and parking places. So my theory follows that the next conference realignment will be back to regional conferences that make sense geographically. Without the huge football payouts it won't make sense for Miami's Golf team to travel to BC for a match. Likewise for WV's volleyball team to play at Nebraska or South Carolina's swim team to fly to college Station for a meet. So I say enjoy the tournaments in NYC, Phillly, Boston and Miami while they last.

To be honest with you, I think this is quite plausible. Maybe not likely, but well within the realm of the possible.

That said, the status quo won't go down without a fight. If it does happen that way, I think you'll simply see less reaching for new teams but not necessarily realignment of the old teams. But who knows how this will all look in 5-10 years.

- Chillin

BandAlum83
03-13-2017, 10:36 AM
To be honest with you, I think this is quite plausible. Maybe not likely, but well within the realm of the possible.

That said, the status quo won't go down without a fight. If it does happen that way, I think you'll simply see less reaching for new teams but not necessarily realignment of the old teams. But who knows how this will all look in 5-10 years.

- Chillin

Very true! The UNC case could single handedly bring down the NCAA, if what I read in the cheating scandal threads is accurate! ;)

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
03-13-2017, 11:04 AM
I say let's leave that booger in Brooklyn... good mojo.

oldnavy
03-13-2017, 11:17 AM
London. I am surprised nobody has suggested this... if the NFL is doing it, then it must be OK... right?

LasVegas
03-13-2017, 11:19 AM
Rucker park. We can even use streetballs.

throatybeard
03-13-2017, 11:55 AM
In Jim Boeheim's face, that's where.

throatybeard
03-13-2017, 04:02 PM
Boeheim probably doesn't know the difference between Greenville and Greensboro

Some US Americans don't have maps.

Reddevil
03-14-2017, 08:29 PM
Syracuse / UNCG postponed due to blizzard. That would not be likely in Greensboro!

chriso
03-14-2017, 09:09 PM
Syracuse? :) Actually I like Brooklyn. Worked out pretty well this year.

throatybeard
03-15-2017, 08:27 AM
Syracuse / UNCG postponed due to blizzard. That would not be likely in Greensboro!

There is no value in having the NIT in Syracuse.

OldPhiKap
03-15-2017, 10:15 AM
There is no value in having the NIT in Syracuse.

Au contraire. I am fine with Jimmy B. hosting it every damn year.

throatybeard
03-15-2017, 10:54 AM
Au contraire. I am fine with Jimmy B. hosting it every damn year.

7270

throatybeard
03-15-2017, 11:26 AM
Incidentally, when I saved that picture on my laptop for future deployment, I chose the file name BoeheimSmell.jpg

rasputin
03-15-2017, 02:43 PM
Incidentally, when I saved that picture on my laptop for future deployment, I chose the file name BoeheimSmell.jpg

I could smell that right through my computer monitor.