MBB: Duke 79, Clemson 72 (ACCT) Post Game Thread

[Bob Green]

Discuss the game here.

[Karl Beem]

Love good Tatum.

[ipatent]

Good win. Not sure if Clemson should have fouled with 36 seconds left...they had time for a stop and it got away from them after that.

[SlapTheFloor]

Looked like a tough game from what I could tell on ESPN's GameCast. Hope our guys still have something left in the tank for tomorrow. One complaint about the ESPN page, though, there's a glitch where it print "Frank Jackson turnover." at the end of every first half. That can't be true, right?

[kAzE]

Tatum was phenomenal. All of our starters played VERY well.

Our bench was terrible. Grayson was . . . . awful. I can't remember any time in my memory of Duke basketball where an established guy came into a season and regressed this much, even considering the injuries. He and Harry combined for 6 fouls and 2 points.

We're very lucky that Frank is coming on strong right now. But we need the good Grayson back if we want to continue to advance. The starters played more minutes than I would have preferred for the first of presumably 3 or 4 games in as many days.

[DukeTrinity11]

Looked like a tough game from what I could tell on ESPN's GameCast. Hope our guys still have something left in the tank for tomorrow. One complaint about the ESPN page, though, there's a glitch where it print "Frank Jackson turnover." at the end of every first half. That can't be true, right?
It was, he dribbled the ball of his legs out of a TO with just a few seconds left on the game clock.

[WHOneedsSOX]

Zero points for Allen in 13 minutes. Should they just sit him out until the NCAA tournament starts? Would be really tough though with basically no bench other than Giles for 7 minutes.

[LasVegas]

k says Jackson is the key. I agree. Especially with Allen not being himself.

[ipatent]

I can't remember any time in my memory of Duke basketball where an established guy came into a season and regressed this much, even considering the injuries.

Injuries can make a big difference. The kid deserves some credit for wanting to play...he's not getting that spin from the press because of the incidents.

[RPS]

Any ACC Tournament win is a good win, but it looks like we're down to five players. Only the five starters played significant minutes as Grayson seems to be the latest player given up on. I hope I'm wrong (maybe it was just fouls generally or maybe it was the technical foul) and that he (and others) get to provide help to the starters going forward. I can't see us advancing far in either the ACC or NCAA Tournaments with only five guys.

[InSpades]

Love good Tatum.

Is there another kind of Tatum? Kid has been great all year (once he got on the court anyway).

[azzefkram]

Survive and advance. Great game by Frank and Jayson. Awesome second half by Luke. Amile did a good job. Vrank's cameo went better than I expected. Harry, Marques, Matt and Grayson... if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. Bring on Louisville.

[TKG]

Vrank sighting.

[Edouble]

I guess Jeter is unavailable due to health or other, with Vrank getting the call this afternoon. That is too bad, as I thought his game was pretty solid earlier in the year.

Frank is at a new level and the timing couldn't be better.

Marques looked out of sorts. Giles did not look great either. I hope one of these guys can step it up if we want to make it to Saturday.

60-47... then 69-68... then 79-72. Not sure if that is good that we held them off or bad that we let them come back. March is a beast though, and Clemson was playing to get into the tournament, so they were gonna throw everything they had at us.

Survive and advance.

[lifelongdevil]

Zero points for Allen in 13 minutes. Should they just sit him out until the NCAA tournament starts? Would be really tough though with basically no bench other than Giles for 7 minutes.

Just need to tell Grayson to take the lead out of his shoes.

Watching the 2015 Championship Game and a few games from last year recently it is amazing how is has regressed (possibly due to injuries?). Gone from an explosive player who can drive by guys at will, to someone that looks to be moving in quicksand. As someone who really wants him to do well, tough to watch.

I also took away another shift in rotation hierarchy from Bolden to Vrank the Tank.

[BD80]

3 20 point scorers? Not too shabby.

A win without Grayson scoring? We'll take it. Hope he gets healthy.

[flyingdutchdevil]

3 20 point scorers? Not too shabby.

A win without Grayson scoring? We'll take it. Hope he gets healthy.

I don't attribute his poor play today to health. I attribute it to attitude.

[Bluedog]

k says Jackson is the key. I agree. Especially with Allen not being himself.

Link to press conference? I know they've show it live in the past.

[WHOneedsSOX]

Just need to tell Grayson to take the lead out of his shoes.

Watching the 2015 Championship Game and a few games from last year recently it is amazing how is has regressed (possibly due to injuries?). Gone from an explosive player who can drive by guys at will, to someone that looks to be moving in quicksand. As someone who really wants him to do well, tough to watch.

I also took away another shift in rotation hierarchy from Bolden to Vrank the Tank.

I meant bench him so he can recover from his injuries. Didn't mean bench him because of his poor play.

[weezie]

Injuries can make a big difference. The kid deserves some credit for wanting to play...he's not getting that spin from the press because of the incidents.

Witness the doe-eyed calling off the dogs speech from Jay Williams during the half. Even Seth seemed a bit quieted.

[kAzE]

I don't attribute his poor play today to health. I attribute it to attitude.

Grayson better get used to coming off the bench. I don't see Frank giving up the starting spot any time soon. He's been awesome.

[Billy Dat]

Frank, Jayson, Luke and Amile were all fantastic. Amile's recovery from injury is astounding. The way is he attacking off the dribble and unleashing a sophisticated arsenal of low post moves is giving us much needed balance on offense. Grayson had a bad day. Harry seems to pick up a foul every twenty seconds he is on the court. Marques got an early chance and made a couple of bad plays and got pulled. Matt didn't shoot well, but he played a ton of minutes and played good defense, moved the ball, etc. You have to trust that he is part of what makes us win and maybe devote time to just watching him on defense no matter where the ball is.

Lots of minutes for the starters, Louisville is waiting, but I love the emergence of Frank and the healed-up Amile. I am happy we are playing a big game tomorrow and I am trying to attend!

[Saratoga2]

The starting lineup was terrific. Jackson played well throughout whereas Kennard shot was off in the first half but he came back strongly in the second, scoring 17. Jayson's offensive game was at times phenomenal. His defense and rebounding were very good. Toward the end, he did try to do too much though and we let Clemson open the door but Kennard had the answer. Amile was excellent throughout although was saddled with 4 fouls at the end. Matt played his game and was good against Blossingame. I agree with others that thought Grayson's play was on the whole a negative for the team. He made one good pass but incurred fouls and didn't have any of his old scoring moxie. It is too bad for the team that he is so off right now when we need experienced depth. The remainder of the bench weren't too encouraging.

We got a win and advanced but the grind of this tournament will likely catch up to us going forward.

[ipatent]

I meant bench him so he can recover from his injuries. Didn't mean bench him because of his poor play.

It's been lingering since December and apparently worse than ever this second week of March. Not very likely he'll be in top form for the Big Dance, unless he takes a shot.

[BD80]

I don't attribute his poor play today to health. I attribute it to attitude.

Grayson was sullen on the bench at the end of the game, not pumping up his teammates as the came to the bench at a time-out.

[weezie]

...Harry seems to pick up a foul every twenty seconds he is on the court. Marques got an early chance and made a couple of bad plays and got pulled...

Their seasons in a nutshell. Over and over again.

[LasVegas]

Link to press conference? I know they've show it live in the past.


He said it to Jackson as they were leaving the court, per mark Armstrong twitter.

[TKG]

Link to press conference? I know they've show it live in the past.

My summary of K's press conference: They're really good. we beat a really good team today. In the first half they knocked us back. In the second half we got our verve back and for 15 minutes we played beautiful basketball. But they're really good and we were tough down the stretch.

[Kedsy]

I call that a good win against a good team. Two positive takeaways from today's game:

(1) If you'd told me that Luke and Grayson would have combined for 3 points in the first half, I would not have guessed we'd be tied at halftime. Also, if you'd told me Grayson would end the game with zero points and we'd shoot 24% from three-point range against a top 35 team, I would not have guessed we'd win at all. But we found a way, which bodes well.

(2) I've heard Coach K say the beginning and ending of each half are the most important parts of the game:

Start of 1st half: Duke 7 Clemson 1
End of 1st half: Duke 8 Clemson 4
Start of 2nd half: Duke 16 Clemson 4
End of 2nd half: Duke 10 Clemson 4

Those are the numbers of a winning team, right there.


Grayson was . . . . awful. I can't remember any time in my memory of Duke basketball where an established guy came into a season and regressed this much, even considering the injuries.

I don't think you can fairly separate the injuries from the "regression." In the few games that Grayson has been healthy this season, he's been great.

[bluenorth]

I guess Jeter is unavailable due to health or other, with Vrank getting the call this afternoon. That is too bad, as I thought his game was pretty solid earlier in the year.

Frank is at a new level and the timing couldn't be better.

Marques looked out of sorts. Giles did not look great either. I hope one of these guys can step it up if we want to make it to Saturday.60-47... then 69-68... then 79-72. Not sure if that is good that we held them off or bad that we let them come back. March is a beast though, and Clemson was playing to get into the tournament, so they were gonna throw everything they had at us.

Survive and advance.

I'd love to see them take it up a notch too, but based on what Giles and Bolden have accomplished so far this season, I'm not anticipating any change. On another note, besides being a freshman has Giles done something to annoy the refs? Game after game he gets called for minor or phantom transgressions. That too is unlikely to change at this point.

[MCFinARL]

I guess Jeter is unavailable due to health or other, with Vrank getting the call this afternoon. That is too bad, as I thought his game was pretty solid earlier in the year.


Yes, I think it has to be the case that Jeter either is still recovering from the back surgery or is still getting back into playing shape after it. Agree it is too bad because he seemed to have made a big jump from last year and could be giving Duke some solid minutes now.




I also took away another shift in rotation hierarchy from Bolden to Vrank the Tank.

That is what it looks like after Bolden lost that ball to an embarrassing steal. But it's hard to say whether that will be true tomorrow. I feel like Vrank can do fewer good things than Bolden but, at least right now, he also makes fewer mistakes. Feel bad for both Bolden and Giles (as well as Jeter) that their seasons have been so set back by all of the missed early season time.

[devildeac]

Quite a game by Tatum: 20/9 w/4A (led team) and only 2 TO. 5/5 FT, too. Bad 3-shooting except FJ. Amile another dubbel-dubbel. Luke and FJ w/20 each. And Luke shoots no FT (SMH).

[Billy Dat]

@YahooForde
Elijah Thomas around the rim w the ball has probably taken years off Brad Brownell's life. Painful.

That Thomas point blank miss with 2 to go was HUGE.

[MartyClark]

It's a tourney win and I'm happy.

This may be the most interesting but frustrating season that I can remember. I'm engaged in every game and pulling for Duke and the players. Yet, I'm a little numb about this team. I had different expectations for the team and the individual players. I'm working through this dissonance while still enjoying the season.

Tatum is a beast. He makes some mistakes but he is a great first year player. Jackson has really come on in recent weeks. Amile and Luke are steady and good.

I don't know what to think about Grayson. I love the kid but, for whatever reason, he has disappeared. Giles and Bolden have not been factors.

I guess it's one game at a time. Go Duke, beat Louisville tomorrow.

[MCFinARL]

I'd love to see them take it up a notch too, but based on what Giles and Bolden have accomplished so far this season, I'm not anticipating any change. On another note, besides being a freshman has Giles done something to annoy the refs? Game after game he gets called for minor or phantom transgressions. That too is unlikely to change at this point.

This is a good question that I have also wondered about. Sometimes I think it's just that, with his very long arms, the refs anticipate that he will foul.

[bluenorth]

This is a good question that I have also wondered about. Sometimes I think it's just that, with his very long arms, the refs anticipate that he will foul.

I guess that the "old" wisdom that bigs take longer to develop than guards comes into play here. Given time perhaps Giles, and Bolden, would become better. Let's hope that we get to find out.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

My summary of K's press conference: They're really good. we beat a really good team today. In the first half they knocked us back. In the second half we got our verve back and for 15 minutes we played beautiful basketball. But they're really good and we were tough down the stretch.

Is that this game's press conference or any K press conference in the last 30 years?

[Hingeknocker]

Grayson's emotions, if not just the injuries, are definitely affecting his play. Picking up those three quick fouls in the first half meant that he got even less time on the court to try and assert himself and get into a rhythm. That being said, the two fouls immediately preceding his technical foul were terrible, terrible calls. Especially the second one.

It's disappointing to see his season go this way, but I'm hoping he can get out of this funk. He's already done it once this year - having a very solid stretch of games, probably climaxing with the first Carolina game. It's nice that Jackson is stepping up his game right at the perfect time, though!

[FadedTackyShirt]

Does Clemson fire Brownell? One trip to the Dance in 7 years. Expect UNCW's Keatts to be coaching in the ACC next season.

[BandAlum83]

It's a tourney win and I'm happy.

This may be the most interesting but frustrating season that I can remember. I'm engaged in every game and pulling for Duke and the players. Yet, I'm a little numb about this team. I had different expectations for the team and the individual players. I'm working through this dissonance while still enjoying the season.

Tatum is a beast. He makes some mistakes but he is a great first year player. Jackson has really come on in recent weeks. Amile and Luke are steady and good.

I don't know what to think about Grayson. I love the kid but, for whatever reason, he has disappeared. Giles and Bolden have not been factors.

I guess it's one game at a time. Go Duke, beat Louisville tomorrow.

Seriously, would anyone be surprised to see Grayson go for 16/5/5 tomorrow? I wouldn't. He hasn't "regressed, but he mercurial.

I'm absolutely rooting for him!

[WHOneedsSOX]

lol ouch, City of Greensboro Twitter getting back at Boeheim for his comments.

Boeheim on the ACC Tourney:
"There's no value to playing in Greensboro. None."

City of Greensboro @greensborocity
.@AdamZagoria @ACCSports We kindly disagree. But I guess you can lose in the 1st round anywhere. At least it's a quick ride home.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Seriously, would anyone be surprised to see Grayson go for 16/5/5 tomorrow? I wouldn't. He hasn't "regressed, but he mercurial.

I'm absolutely rooting for him!

I wouldn't be surprised. But I also wouldn't be surprised to see Grayson get ejected from a game. If Duke's season is a roller-coaster, then Grayson Allen is Virgin Galactic.

[MartyClark]

Seriously, would anyone be surprised to see Grayson go for 16/5/5 tomorrow? I wouldn't. He hasn't "regressed, but he mercurial.

I'm absolutely rooting for him!

I'd like nothing better than that.

[TKG]

I don't think you can fairly separate the injuries from the "regression." In the few games that Grayson has been healthy this season, he's been great.

Whether it is physical or psychological, GA is not helping the team on a consistent basis. Both his injuries and the emotional upheaval he is dealing with have made him undependable as a contributing member of this team. Unfortunately we do not have enough bodies to sit him. While "regression" might not be accurate, he is not additive to team performance.

[Indoor66]

Seriously, would anyone be surprised to see Grayson go for 16/5/5 tomorrow? I wouldn't. He hasn't "regressed, but he mercurial.

I'm absolutely rooting for him!

From your page to Grayson's ears and heart. 😀😎

[RPS]

Are you serious? Did you watch the game?

I am and I did.


1) Grayson was awful, selfish, and extremely emotional. Some may disagree with me, but he deserved that tech. You can't throw the ball down and yell, 'F@CK!' He also had a patented I-need-to-shoot-from-5-feet-beyond-the-arc-with-time-on-the-clock-because-I'm-Grayson shot that only works against UNC.

He was very poor indeed, perhaps due to injury. If it was injury, he should have been rested well before now. To the extent it wasn't injury, it's clear that his confidence is badly eroded. If we're going to be successful in either tournament, we need a healthy and confident Grayson Allen. Today was not a step in the right direction.


2) Giles was a fouling machine who was always out of position on D and made 1-2 solid plays but 3-4 bad plays.

Chicken and egg again. It's exceedingly hard to win either tournament with only five guys but we have no bench right now.

[sagegrouse]

Tatum was phenomenal. All of our starters played VERY well.

Our bench was terrible. Grayson was . . . . awful. I can't remember any time in my memory of Duke basketball where an established guy came into a season and regressed this much, even considering the injuries. He and Harry combined for 6 fouls and 2 points.

We're very lucky that Frank is coming on strong right now. But we need the good Grayson back if we want to continue to advance. The starters played more minutes than I would have preferred for the first of presumably 3 or 4 games in as many days.

I am expecting Grayson to go for 25 tomorrow against Louisville. BTW, his pass to Harry Giles today was our best play in the first half.

[elvis14]

Glad we got the win even if it was a bit ugly.

Hate the GA bashing in this thread (and on chat). The Tech was a terrible call right after he was called for a foul....another terrible call. Hope he gets healthy and goes off in the NCAA tournament.

[NashvilleDevil]

He was very poor indeed, perhaps due to injury. If it was injury, he should have been rested well before now. To the extent it wasn't injury, it's clear that his confidence is badly eroded. If we're going to be successful in either tournament, we need a healthy and confident Grayson Allen. Today was not a step in the right direction.

Duke won today I would say that is a step in the right direction.

[Newton_14]

@YahooForde
Elijah Thomas around the rim w the ball has probably taken years off Brad Brownell's life. Painful.

That Thomas point blank miss with 2 to go was HUGE.
On that play Matt Jones got just enough ball to cause Thomas to lose his grip and he pushed it toward the rim with two hands to no avail. Awesome defensive play w/o fouling by Matt and I feel bad for Thomas because 99.9% of the people who saw the play will say "Thomas blew the bunny". Not true at all.


ANd people need to tone it down with Grayson or expect an infraction. We don't bash players on this site for any reason.

[Olympic Fan]

Can I make a comment about Clemson?

There are so close to being a successful team. I think the key reason they are not is Donte Grantham.

A year ago as a soph, he was a coming standout -- Clemson's No. 2 scorer (10.4 ppg), 4.2 rebounds, 72 assists and just 44 TOs. He wasn't a great shooter (38.5 from 2, 25 percent from 3), but after his sophomore year, he looked like he would team with Blossomgame to give Clemson as good a pair of forwards as there are in the ACC.

Instead, he has been terrible -- in ACC play, he averaged 6.1 points and 3.9 rebounds ... he shot 35.0 percent from the field and 31 percent from 3. His FT percentage went from 84.6 as a soph to 69.2 as a junior. He was useless against Duke today (0 points, 2 rebounds, 1 TO). He was almost useless in Durham (0 points, 5 rebounds)

If Grantham had only played as well last year as he did a year ago, they win 3-4 more games. If he had made the jump you have a right to expect, I think Clemson would be an NCAA team easy.

Now, they are going to be lucky to get an NIT bid.

PS I think Duke's win solidified a No. 4 seed at worst when the brackets come out. If Duke losses to Louisville, it's not a bad loss and it's not going to drop Duke. Now, don't get me wrong. I think a No. 3 seed -- and maybe even a No. 2 -- if possible with a deep NCAA run. But if the worst happens Thursday, Duke remains a solid No. 4.

[TKG]

Is that this game's press conference or any K press conference in the last 30 years?

Precisely.

[Troublemaker]

Link to press conference? I know they've show it live in the past.

https://livestream.com/ACCDN/events/7085629/videos/151282783

[flyingdutchdevil]

Can I make a comment about Clemson?

There are so close to being a successful team. I think the key reason they are not is Donte Grantham.

A year ago as a soph, he was a coming standout -- Clemson's No. 2 scorer (10.4 ppg), 4.2 rebounds, 72 assists and just 44 TOs. He wasn't a great shooter (38.5 from 2, 25 percent from 3), but after his sophomore year, he looked like he would team with Blossomgame to give Clemson as good a pair of forwards as there are in the ACC.

Instead, he has been terrible -- in ACC play, he averaged 6.1 points and 3.9 rebounds ... he shot 35.0 percent from the field and 31 percent from 3. His FT percentage went from 84.6 as a soph to 69.2 as a junior. He was useless against Duke today (0 points, 2 rebounds, 1 TO). He was almost useless in Durham (0 points, 5 rebounds)

If Grantham had only played as well last year as he did a year ago, they win 3-4 more games. If he had made the jump you have a right to expect, I think Clemson would be an NCAA team easy.

Now, they are going to be lucky to get an NIT bid.

PS I think Duke's win solidified a No. 4 seed at worst when the brackets come out. If Duke losses to Louisville, it's not a bad loss and it's not going to drop Duke. Now, don't get me wrong. I think a No. 3 seed -- and maybe even a No. 2 -- if possible with a deep NCAA run. But if the worst happens Thursday, Duke remains a solid No. 4.

If you play awesome in the first two rounds, you get re-seeded? Awesome! I know what you meant; just pulling your leg.

Clemson clearly has the talent, but they made too many mistakes, both in terms of bunnies and turnovers.

And I agree on seeding. No way are we worse than a 4-seed. If we win tomorrow, we should be a 3-seed. Win the whole ACC Tournament and we're likely a 2-seed (although contingent on what happens in the PAC-12 and SEC Tournaments).

[BandAlum83]

I am expecting Grayson to go for 25 tomorrow against Louisville. BTW, his pass to Harry Giles today was our best play in the first half.

And the play immediately before the technical where he crashed the offensive board for a put back was very athletic. It shows me two things that fly in the face of much of what people out here say:

1. He's not afraid of aggressive plays
2. He feels confident in his ankle
3. He looks pretty healthy.

The T was not that big of a deal. If he had caught the ball, he probably wouldn't have been Td up. Did his frustration reveal anything other than his competitiveness? I think not.

He'll be fine and will contribute mightily before season's end.

I'll do my best Udaman impression and gurantee it.

[Stray Gator]

Clemson missed its first free throw, and then proceeded to make 24 of 25 through the rest of the game. Without regard to whether the foul/free throw differential between the two teams was justified or not, I think Clemson's performance in that phase of the game was remarkable, and certainly a major factor in the Tigers' ability to keep the score close.

[Troublemaker]

Chicken and egg again. It's exceedingly hard to win either tournament with only five guys but we have no bench right now.

Well, the bench didn't play well today, but things can easily change for them tomorrow. I wouldn't say we have no bench. I felt bad for Marques because he was first inserted into the game with Clemson in the bonus, and then his teammates couldn't stop fouling. Grayson had his loose ball foul, loose ball foul, technical foul sequence that submarined Duke's lead and momentum towards the end of the first half. Oh well. Tomorrow's another day, and it could go differently for those guys against Louisville.

Good win today. I was impressed that we weathered a very poor shooting day from three to control most of the game with solid defense (aside from Clemson taking advantage of our double-team too much) and with Frank, Jayson, Luke, and Amile scoring around the basket.

[SoCalDukeFan]

Glad we got the win even if it was a bit ugly.

Hate the GA bashing in this thread (and on chat). The Tech was a terrible call right after he was called for a foul...another terrible call. Hope he gets healthy and goes off in the NCAA tournament.

I thought the tech call was legit. Might not have been called if he called the ball.

I also hate the GA bashing. I go back and watch the 2015 NC game then I give Grayson a pass for about anything he does on the court.

SoCal

\

[kAzE]

And the play immediately before the technical where he crashed the offensive board for a put back was very athletic.

Huh? What play was that? He had 0 points.

[BandAlum83]

Clemson missed its first free throw, and then proceeded to make 24 of 25 through the rest of the game. Without regard to whether the foul/free throw differential between the two teams was justified or not, I think Clemson's performance in that phase of the game was remarkable, and certainly a major factor in the Tigers' ability to keep the score close.

Our free throw defense has gotten progressively worse through the year. Coach K almost lost us this game today because he needs a simpler defensive scheme for FTs that OADS can understand!

And what a disappointment that our upperclass team leaders could let this happen!!!

/snark

[flyingdutchdevil]

Well, the bench didn't play well today, but things can easily change for them tomorrow. I wouldn't say we have no bench. I felt bad for Marques because he was first inserted into the game with Clemson in the bonus, and then his teammates couldn't stop fouling. Grayson had his loose ball foul, loose ball foul, technical foul sequence that submarined Duke's lead and momentum towards the end of the first half. Oh well. Tomorrow's another day, and it could go differently for those guys against Louisville.

Good win today. I was impressed that we weathered a very poor shooting day from three to control most of the game with solid defense (aside from Clemson taking advantage of our double-team too much) and with Frank, Jayson, Luke, and Amile scoring around the basket.

That's the beauty of the ACC Tournament; it's a new day to prove what you can do.

And I like our chances that at least 2 of the following happen:

1) Grayson goes off and scores a crap load of points
2) Giles plays D well enough to warrant extended minutes and also scores at least 8 points
3) Luke shoots well in the first half AND the second half
4) Matt Jones hits at least 2 3pters
5) Tatum shoots at least 40% from 3pt land

None of these happened today. But they can easily happen tomorrow!

[BandAlum83]

Huh? What play was that? He had 0 points.

He crashed the board for a put back, didn't hit it and got called for the foul.

He tracked the play and released on the shot and almost made it. I don't necessarily agree with the foul call, but it wasn't outlandish.

It was this play that preceded the T. I didn't say he successfully completed the put back, but sorry if I wasn't clear enough. I thought anyone who watched the game would understand the play I referenced.

[COYS]

The T was not that big of a deal. If he had caught the ball, he probably wouldn't have been Td up. Did his frustration reveal anything other than his competitiveness? I think not.



Yeah, while the ref could T him up for that based on the letter of the law, it was a REALLY soft whistle, especially since his outburst wasn't even directed at a referee or an opposing player. The whistle was even slightly delayed. What was interesting is that on the replay, neither the Clemson players on the court nor the players on the bench were even looking for a tech against him. Even the Clemson student section, which was in the background of the replay, were completely caught off guard by the whistle, though they loved it, of course. I won't argue against the ref because it was a pretty obvious outburst and he kind-of-sort-of spiked the ball, which is an automatic tech, but if that's the worst thing Grayson does on the court, I'm not too worried. I doubt that gets called again this season. And, at least we won the game, so Grayson gets a reminder that he's on a short leash with the refs in a situation that didn't hurt us.

[mr. synellinden]

Matt is 2-16 his last five games shooting from 3 point range.

I have a sixth sense kind of feeling he might have a 4-6; 5-7 kind of game in him tomorrow. Just a hunch.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Matt is 2-16 his last five games shooting from 3 point range.

I have a sixth sense kind of feeling he might have a 4-6; 5-7 kind of game in him tomorrow. Just a hunch.

This is Matt Jones's MO. He either shoots lights out or produces dogs offensively.

But his defense? Now that's a thing of beauty.

[RPS]

Well, the bench didn't play well today, but things can easily change for them tomorrow.

They could and I hope they do. But there is little reason to expect it. Grayson is still averaging over 30 minutes per game for the season but hasn't played 30 minutes in any of the past six games, partly due to injury (I assume). The past three games have seen him play 16, 23 and 12 minutes. No other bench player is getting close to that many minutes.

Luke had a very poor first half today but was allowed to play himself out of it and had a terrific second half. He has earned that right. I'd give Grayson the same opportunity.

[rsvman]

The first half was scary, and it showed what can happen if Luke isn't Luke.
Frank looked good except for the two late missed free throws.

On to the next game, though. A win is a win.

[Hauerwas]

Any ACC tourney win is a good won, and the fact that we had to make free throws and get stops at the under 1:00 mark is huge.

Just a weird season and this game was a microcosm of the entire year in the following ways.
1. Grayson acted like a child and got a T, took one very bad three that lead to poor defensive transition and his emotions caused a huge swing in the game that really could have cost us the L. His inability to move on to the 'next play' at this point in his career is sad.
2. Giles makes a stellar play only to be followed by horrible fouls and being utterly lost on pick n roll. He looks like a deer in headlights still at times, which again is just sad based on how hyped he was.
3. Bolden looks confused, reactionary and just completely overwhelmed
4. Matt Jones plays great D, but can't throw it in the ocean
5. Amile is an absolute rock.
6. Tatum played like a pro
7. Luke is just an absolute joy to watch, so crafty, I'm shocked every time he actually misses a jumper it's so pretty
8. We still cannot guard the straight line drive, it's actually comical how bad we are at moving our feet.
9. Our rebounding is much better than last year but still not a great strength
10. If we hit 3's we win, if not, it's a dog fight.
11. Jackson's penetration, and ability to finish at the rim is a difference maker when things stall, so impressed with that kid, and he has a swagger.

[ChillinDuke]

Yeah, while the ref could T him up for that based on the letter of the law, it was a REALLY soft whistle, especially since his outburst wasn't even directed at a referee or an opposing player. The whistle was even slightly delayed. What was interesting is that on the replay, neither the Clemson players on the court nor the players on the bench were even looking for a tech against him. Even the Clemson student section, which was in the background of the replay, were completely caught off guard by the whistle, though they loved it, of course. I won't argue against the ref because it was a pretty obvious outburst and he kind-of-sort-of spiked the ball, which is an automatic tech, but if that's the worst thing Grayson does on the court, I'm not too worried. I doubt that gets called again this season. And, at least we won the game, so Grayson gets a reminder that he's on a short leash with the refs in a situation that didn't hurt us.

In a vacuum, I agree with you.

I. Grayson tried to get his own putback and looked like he hit one of the Clemson players. I thought that was a fair foul call, if still frustrating because (a) he missed a reasonable bunny and (b) it wasn't a glaring foul. Move on.

II. Grayson tried to time a putback and looked like he scraped the arm of a Clemson player. I thought that was a fair foul call on a player trying to make a major mark on a game off the bench. Move on.

Scenario I was, IMO, a good one. He tried an athletic move, missed a makeable shot, but showed tenacity and desire.

Scenario II was, IMO, a bad one. He did a similar thing to Scenario I. What was the major difference? He didn't move on.

Grayson needs to learn to move on. "Next play" if you will. In a vacuum, I agree that his tenacity and bulldog mentality is a fantastic trait. But we don't play (nor live) in a vacuum. People are going to do and say things, players are going to do and say things, refs are going to call things. He needs to learn to adapt to this new normal. That's what the best players do: adapt. Grayson's inability to do that this season, I believe, is impacting his draft stock more than his shots not falling. The #1 question for him entering this season, if you all remember the offseason on the Board, was, "Can Grayson Allen learn a new role, a potentially less prominent scoring role, on effectively a new team?" The answer to that question has largely been no. And unfortunately, the answer to the first four words in that question has been no.

That tech was a game impacting play. I'm not gonna fault the ref there. He was watching when it happened in reasonable proximity. I apologize if this sounds like bashing - that's not the intent. I think it's the honest truth of the situation - at least from my vantage point. I'm still rooting for him just like most of you around here, but man it's through a grimace.

- Chillin

[gofurman]

It's been lingering since December and apparently worse than ever this second week of March. Not very likely he'll be in top form for the Big Dance, unless he takes a shot.

True but Grayson was great vs UNC etc. Great So i don't think his injuries are all if it - today some was attitude. Some was injuries. Let him rest the ankle and play hard for 20+ minutes in NCAA games. Just my .02

[Karl Beem]

Is there another kind of Tatum? Kid has been great all year (once he got on the court anyway).

I beg to differ. Too often he has dominated the ball, didn't pass and took fade away 2ptrs. His D was often lacking.

[devildeac]

Yeah, while the ref could T him up for that based on the letter of the law, it was a REALLY soft whistle, especially since his outburst wasn't even directed at a referee or an opposing player. The whistle was even slightly delayed. What was interesting is that on the replay, neither the Clemson players on the court nor the players on the bench were even looking for a tech against him. Even the Clemson student section, which was in the background of the replay, were completely caught off guard by the whistle, though they loved it, of course. I won't argue against the ref because it was a pretty obvious outburst and he kind-of-sort-of spiked the ball, which is an automatic tech, but if that's the worst thing Grayson does on the court, I'm not too worried. I doubt that gets called again this season. And, at least we won the game, so Grayson gets a reminder that he's on a short leash with the refs in a situation that didn't hurt us.

Now, let me know when any other acc player slams the ball to the floor after a bad play/call and/or lets loose with a wanker-worthy expression and gets the T. Not arguing the call on GA, I just want consistency, sorely lacking in acc officiating.

[gam7]

Maybe more appropriate for the pre-game thread, but I think this was mentioned on the broadcast and it is confirmed by Clemson's kenpom page - Clemson is dead last in D1 (ranked #351) in free throw percentage defense. Opponents this season have shot 76.7% against them. That's incredible and must be frustrating given how Clemson's season has gone.

[Steven43]

Marques looked out of sorts. Giles did not look great either. I hope one of these guys can step it up if we want to make it to Saturday.
It is quite possible that Bolden may never become the high level of player he was projected to be coming out of high school. Many top 50 and even top 25 players don't turn out to be good in college. There is no way to accurately project that sort of thing. I'm not saying that's the case, just that it's starting to seem more possible than I had previously thought.

Giles has probably been robbed of a good bit of his basketball-related skill and athleticism due to his severe injuries. It is exactly what I feared when he suffered the second ACL tear. Never seen a basketball player return to previous form after two such injuries. There's likely nothing more mysterious to it than that. It happens.

To that end it's quite possible that Jabari will not return to his previous level after suffering his second ACL tear. Maybe he'll be among the first. I certainly hope so. I am a huge fan of his and have followed almost all of his game results since he became an NBA player. It really ruined my day when his latest injury occurred. And every time I have thought about it since then I get bummed out. Injuries suck.

[CDu]

They could and I hope they do. But there is little reason to expect it. Grayson is still averaging over 30 minutes per game for the season but hasn't played 30 minutes in any of the past six games, partly due to injury (I assume). The past three games have seen him play 16, 23 and 12 minutes. No other bench player is getting close to that many minutes.

Luke had a very poor first half today but was allowed to play himself out of it and had a terrific second half. He has earned that right. I'd give Grayson the same opportunity.

Not partly due to injury. Entirely due to injury. Allen badly sprained his ankle very early against Clemson in Cameron and then reinjured that ankle against UVa. In the subsequent games including that Clemson game, Allen has shot 2-10, 2-10, 3-8, 1-3, 2-4, and 0-4 with a DNP against Miami. Allen's struggles are 100% correlated - and in this case 100% caused - by his ankle injury.

[COYS]

That tech was a game impacting play. I'm not gonna fault the ref there. He was watching when it happened in reasonable proximity. I apologize if this sounds like bashing - that's not the intent. I think it's the honest truth of the situation - at least from my vantage point. I'm still rooting for him just like most of you around here, but man it's through a grimace.

- Chillin

Right but here's the thing, sometimes it helps to have a quick moment of catharsis. Players do exactly what Grayson did all the time. Except they usually catch the ball. I didn't have a problem with the foul call that precipitated the tech. Grayson was frustrated at himself it seemed to me, had his moment of catharsis (which, as I said was probably a little too demonstrative but nothing horribly worrying to my eyes), and actually seemed ready to move on. He didn't even react poorly when the tech was called. I completely agree that Grayson needs to be extra cautious. I don't fault the ref, as I mentioned, even if I think it was a relatively soft tech that doesn't get called on any other player on the court. But I also didn't view this as a moment of "oh no, Grayson lost his cool." It was a dead ball. He didn't direct his anger at anyone except himself. He wasn't loafing it down the court to get back on defense or anything like that. And, as I mentioned, he even stayed calm after the tech was called. I hope Grayson doesn't do it again. But the punishment on the court (a personal foul and a four-point possession for Clemson) was much worse than the crime, in my opinion.

[DangerDevil]

Yeah, while the ref could T him up for that based on the letter of the law, it was a REALLY soft whistle, especially since his outburst wasn't even directed at a referee or an opposing player. The whistle was even slightly delayed. What was interesting is that on the replay, neither the Clemson players on the court nor the players on the bench were even looking for a tech against him. Even the Clemson student section, which was in the background of the replay, were completely caught off guard by the whistle, though they loved it, of course. I won't argue against the ref because it was a pretty obvious outburst and he kind-of-sort-of spiked the ball, which is an automatic tech, but if that's the worst thing Grayson does on the court, I'm not too worried. I doubt that gets called again this season. And, at least we won the game, so Grayson gets a reminder that he's on a short leash with the refs in a situation that didn't hurt us.

The person that was watching the entire sequence was the ref that called the T, that is what I thought made the call so weak.

Should Grayson have pounded the ball and yelled, no. Does it meet the letter of the law, probably. But if you saw the entire sequence, was Grayson trying to show anyone up, especially the Refs or complain? I don't think so. Was he taunting anyone? I don't think so. I think if you are the Ref and you see the whole sequence you let it go, maybe give him a verbal warning or a look that says knock it off.

I know I wear Duke Blue tinted glasses but i thought the reaction to the block on a Clemson big man (by the player and bench) a few minutes earlier was much more demonstrative especially towards the officials and the call.

Grayson's tech today is probably a result of all the scrutiny that has been placed on him. That is an entirely different discussion on where the blame should fall for that.

I wish we would have closed them out earlier, happy we got the W, and look forward to a better performance (by Grayson and the whole team), and another W!

[gofurman]

Maybe more appropriate for the pre-game thread, but I think this was mentioned on the broadcast and it is confirmed by Clemson's kenpom page - Clemson is dead last in D1 (ranked #351) in free throw percentage defense. Opponents this season have shot 76.7% against them. That's incredible and must be frustrating given how Clemson's season has gone.

It's crazy. The Tigers lost to VT by one point at Clemson. Vt shot 16-17 from the Ft line. I bet vt hasn't done that since. Feel bad for them and Brownell

If they get an NIT bid I hope they win a few.

[CDu]

It's been lingering since December and apparently worse than ever this second week of March. Not very likely he'll be in top form for the Big Dance, unless he takes a shot.

No, they are different injuries. In December he had turf toe. He had recovered from that and was healthy in January into early February. Then against Clemson he badly sprained his ankle. He then rolled it AGAIN against UVa. He has been trying to recover since (about 4 weeks). So it it is, in fact, quite possible for Allen to get healthy again in the tourney.

[Dukehky]

I would just like to give big ups to Chase Jeter. He hasn't played since January, we don't know what the future holds for him, but he is on the bench rooting on his teammates as hard if not harder than anyone else on that bench.

This season has certainly not been easy on him. He got 2 top 10 recruits come in at his position, he was playing early, he got hurt, and since he put his jersey back on, he hasn't come into the game, but he's been right there with the guys the whole way. We've all seen him play and he's as competitive as anyone on our roster, but to stay positive that whole time, pretty incredible.

Thanks, Chase. You are what is right with Duke basketball and the world in general.

[lotusland]

This is Matt Jones's MO. He either shoots lights out or produces dogs offensively.

But his defense? Now that's a thing of beauty.

Has to be a movie reference right? Borat? Everything is Illuminated?

[gofurman]

Not partly due to injury. Entirely due to injury. Allen badly sprained his ankle very early against Clemson in Cameron and then reinjured that ankle against UVa. In the subsequent games including that Clemson game, Allen has shot 2-10, 2-10, 3-8, 1-3, 2-4, and 0-4 with a DNP against Miami. Allen's struggles are 100% correlated - and in this case 100% caused - by his ankle injury.

Maybe he should be DNP tomorrow and just rest up. He would have 8 or 9 days

[Doria]

I would just like to give big ups to Chase Jeter. He hasn't played since January, we don't know what the future holds for him, but he is on the bench rooting on his teammates as hard if not harder than anyone else on that bench.

This season has certainly not been easy on him. He got 2 top 10 recruits come in at his position, he was playing early, he got hurt, and since he put his jersey back on, he hasn't come into the game, but he's been right there with the guys the whole way. We've all seen him play and he's as competitive as anyone on our roster, but to stay positive that whole time, pretty incredible.

Thanks, Chase. You are what is right with Duke basketball and the world in general.

Yep, and last season, was much the same. He had a hard time adjusting to college ball (not unexpected), but was always cheering on his teammates.

[lotusland]

Maybe he should be DNP tomorrow and just rest up. He would have 8 or 9 days

NOT! Duke is going to beat Louisville tomorrow!

[CDu]

On that play Matt Jones got just enough ball to cause Thomas to lose his grip and he pushed it toward the rim with two hands to no avail. Awesome defensive play w/o fouling by Matt and I feel bad for Thomas because 99.9% of the people who saw the play will say "Thomas blew the bunny". Not true at all.


ANd people need to tone it down with Grayson or expect an infraction. We don't bash players on this site for any reason.

Yeah, I have now watched that play numerous times and I respctfully disagree with your assessment. Jones MAY have gotten a piece of the ball, but Thomas still had complete control of it with with both hands, and simply shot it too hard. That is why he was so despondent afterwards. He knew he blew that layup.

I agree about Allen. I am not sure why people can't understand that he is playing on an injured ankle. For one thing, the two ankle injuries were so OBVIOUS. For another, his play has declined so specifically in concurrence with those injuries, and on the heels of playing so well in early February.

[mgtr]

I am a diehard Grayson Allen fan. I want, and expect him to score 20 or better points every night, including tomorrow. Go Grayson, show them what Dukie does!

[53n206]

What a remarkable year we've had. With all of the injuries, having to play freshmen so many minutes a game, with the Grayson Allen negative controversy, and with having our "bigs" so undersized(less bulky) than our opponents we've just been really good. We should be grateful for the efforts that they've made, and for the victories they have presented to us. GO DUKE

[Nugget]

This is a good question that I have also wondered about. Sometimes I think it's just that, with his very long arms, the refs anticipate that he will foul.

I think also that Harry's rustiness and lack of lateral quickness/confidence in his athleticism result in him being in awkward positions and late to plays, resulting in an inordinate number of touch or soft fouls that big men typically don't commit.

[CDu]

I think also that Harry's rustiness and lack of lateral quickness/confidence in his athleticism result in him being in awkward positions and late to plays, resulting in an inordinate number of touch or soft fouls that big men typically don't commit.

Yeah, he does commit a lot of fouls. Many of them are soft fouls, which is infuriating. But they are mostly fouls. And some are just SO silly. The one were he reached out and tapped his man in the back on what ended up a missed dunk was so silly. There was no reason to do it and it just begs for a foul.

I think rust, lack of experience, and lack of confidence are indeed the cause. Which stinks for him. Hopefully he regains his timing and confidence, either at Duke or in the NBA. I feel for him.

[RPS]

Not partly due to injury. Entirely due to injury.

That may be true. I hope it's true. But if it is, he should have had more than one DNP. As I have said repeatedly, we need a healthy and confident Grayson Allen to win the ACC and/or the NCAA Touraments.

[dukelifer]

Yeah, I have now watched that play numerous times and I respctfully disagree with your assessment. Jones MAY have gotten a piece of the ball, but Thomas still had complete control of it with with both hands, and simply shot it too hard. That is why he was so despondent afterwards. He knew he blew that layup.

I agree about Allen. I am not sure why people can't understand that he is playing on an injured ankle. For one thing, the two ankle injuries were so OBVIOUS. For another, his play has declined so specifically in concurrence with those injuries, and on the heels of playing so well in early February.

Allen is doing his best to contribute. He has lost his explosiveness and that is critical to his whole game. I am not faulting him for his play. He is probably the best option. Jackson is playing like Grayson now. Just need to get more production from the bigs and maybe have Jones find his outside shot again.

[CDu]

That may be true. I hope it's true. But if it is, he should have had more than one DNP. As I have said repeatedly, we need a healthy and confident Grayson Allen to win the ACC and/or the NCAA Touraments.

There is no maybe about it. He is injured. Coach K has made it quite clear that Allen is injured. The injuries themselves were quite obvious. Coach K has said that ideally he would have been sitting Allen out these past few weeks, but because NCAA seeding depends on it he hasn't been able to sit him. And even still he did sit Allen against Miami. It has been a tough juggling act for Coach these last few weeks. But there is no mystery or uncertainty about it: Allen is playing on a badly sprained ankle, and has been doing so for about four weeks.

I am hopeful that - with the reduced playing time - he is getting better. His recovery is the only question here.

[curtis325]

Difficult to choose among Tatum, Kennard, Jackson, and Jefferson. I'll take all four.

[DukieInBrasil]

Jayson was excellent today, minus a 2-minute stretch when the game's outcome was still in the balance, after which he woke back up and closed really well.
Frank Jackson was a stud throughout.
Luke was badly off in the opening stanza, and just went bonkers after the half.
3 20-pt scorers? Yes please!
Amile had another man's game, nothing spectacular, except his moves in the post! So glad he's recovered enough to give us just enough in the post.
Even good ol' Uncle Matty had a respectable showing on offense, in combination with another excellent defensive showing.
Everyone else was, lacking. Giles received a nice feed from Grayson for a layup, and otherwise looked completely lost at all times. Bolden looked like he was gonna get in a groove, contesting shots, clogging the lane, but that turnover was just, i dunno, well it's no wonder he didn't get off the bench again. Grayson hurt the team again with an outburst, though if he had just corralled the ball he might not gotten T'd up.
It's good to win, no doubt, and at times we looked quite sharp. This team, however, does not know how to stay hungry or something. They build up decent leads and then fold for a while. We were up 13 in the 2nd half and let them get to within 1, before waking up and closing well. Maybe they'll collectively figure out how to punish a team when it's down.
Hope we take the 'Ville to the woodshed tomorrow!

[ChillinDuke]

Right but here's the thing, sometimes it helps to have a quick moment of catharsis. Players do exactly what Grayson did all the time. Except they usually catch the ball. I didn't have a problem with the foul call that precipitated the tech. Grayson was frustrated at himself it seemed to me, had his moment of catharsis (which, as I said was probably a little too demonstrative but nothing horribly worrying to my eyes), and actually seemed ready to move on. He didn't even react poorly when the tech was called. I completely agree that Grayson needs to be extra cautious. I don't fault the ref, as I mentioned, even if I think it was a relatively soft tech that doesn't get called on any other player on the court. But I also didn't view this as a moment of "oh no, Grayson lost his cool." It was a dead ball. He didn't direct his anger at anyone except himself. He wasn't loafing it down the court to get back on defense or anything like that. And, as I mentioned, he even stayed calm after the tech was called. I hope Grayson doesn't do it again. But the punishment on the court (a personal foul and a four-point possession for Clemson) was much worse than the crime, in my opinion.

I absolutely, unquestionably, fully agree with you.

The only thing I would further add is emphasis on the bolded that you already stated above. It doesn't make the refs right to do what they do. But it's the truth - he needs to be more cautious. You simply don't iron out these sorts of situations by fighting against them or maintaining a similar demeanor. He needs to rise above it.

- Chillin

[hsheffield]

There is no maybe about it. He is injured. Coach K has made it quite clear that Allen is injured. The injuries themselves were quite obvious. Coach K has said that ideally he would have been sitting Allen out these past few weeks, but because NCAA seeding depends on it he hasn't been able to sit him. And even still he did sit Allen against Miami. It has been a tough juggling act for Coach these last few weeks. But there is no mystery or uncertainty about it: Allen is playing on a badly sprained ankle, and has been doing so for about four weeks.

I am hopeful that - with the reduced playing time - he is getting better. His recovery is the only question here.


thank you! I'm so tired of the continued elevation of nothing into something about Grayson Allen.

it's all

FAKE NEWS

[Furniture]

I am a diehard Grayson Allen fan. I want, and expect him to score 20 or better points every night, including tomorrow. Go Grayson, show them what Dukie does!

Judging from K's comments in the presser this is exactly what he thinks. He said "we just need to get him going".

[Duke79UNLV77]

thank you! I'm so tired of the continued elevation of nothing into something about Grayson Allen.

it's all

FAKE NEWS

Studio analyst (I actually don't know his name but think he's pretty good) said only Allen would have gotten a T for the ball spike today and the ref made a mistake.

[duketaylor]

Now, let me know when any other acc player slams the ball to the floor after a bad play/call and/or lets loose with a wanker-worthy expression and gets the T. Not arguing the call on GA, I just want consistency, sorely lacking in acc officiating.

Agree devildeac, but I disagree on the T; usually it's only a T if a player slams the ball to the court and let it bounce wildly anywhere. GA tried to corral it, and it barely slipped away. I think it was a bad call. That then led to a Clemson run near the end of the half that cost us about 6 points. Maybe 8. Under a microscope is he!!

[Newton_14]

True but Grayson was great vs UNC etc. Great So i don't think his injuries are all if it - today some was attitude. Some was injuries. Let him rest the ankle and play hard for 20+ minutes in NCAA games. Just my .02

Grayson turned his ankle very badly in the game that followed the uncCheat game. He reinjured it in the game that followed and has not been the same since. The kid has played at an extremely high level in all games where he hasn't been hurt and early in the year played well despite battling shoulder and rib injuries. The ankle has completely shut him down. He has zero lateral movement, zero lift, and zero ability to plant hard and drive quickly. He has not "regressed".

His recent play is 100% injury related and he is frustrated because he can't do the things he normally does with ease. Giles is pretty much in the same boat just in a different way. I personally think Grayson should not have played a minute since missing the Miami game until he was close to 100% but I'm not the coach. He shouldn't be out there imo.

[UNCfan]

Yeah, he does commit a lot of fouls. Many of them are soft fouls, which is infuriating. But they are mostly fouls. And some are just SO silly. The one were he reached out and tapped his man in the back on what ended up a missed dunk was so silly. There was no reason to do it and it just begs for a foul.

I think rust, lack of experience, and lack of confidence are indeed the cause. Which stinks for him. Hopefully he regains his timing and confidence, either at Duke or in the NBA. I feel for him.

Giles foul issues remind me of Hicks foul issues. I was focusing in on him during a TO and he was super engaged in the huddle, more so than anyone else. The desire is there, it just isn't happening for him right now. A good run in the NCAA could change everyones perception of him. Really, just one explosive game could do that.

[Duke76]

I meant bench him so he can recover from his injuries. Didn't mean bench him because of his poor play.

at the risk of repeating what someone else has said in this thread or any other thread I offer the following:

I played a lot of basketball up until about age 45. I twisted over the years both my ankles numerous times and with each sprain the liagments stretched and my pronation got worse. Or said a different way it takes longer for my heel to progress to my toes when running because the part of foot over my ankle pronates down (gives way). Instead of like a 2 step movement from heel to toe its like a 3 step process which takes longer. Bottom line you can't cut as well, you are slower to the ball, to the rim, you lose explosiveness, (not that i had any). It induces you to be slower on defense, thus the greater propensity to foul.

The plentiful number of Doctors on this board will explain it more precisely, much more, but the bottomline is most of us who have played basketball for extended years have done it and know what I am talking about

Grayson has done it how many times this year. i am just saying its the ankle injuries that is the source of his problems at the presence. End of story, imo. Geesh, Newton, I just am now seeing your post. I started on page one when I got home tonight and read first page or two and started writing this post and hit post and then go to check that it showed up and see your post that posted 10 minutes prior to mine.....guess great minds think alike or the ceiling is the roof or something like that

[Newton_14]

My summary of the game....

I thought we played extremely well out of the gate, jumping out to the quick 5-6 point lead and then stalled due to a combo of just not making good shots, and taking a few bad shots. That prevented us from establishing a double digit lead to work from in the 1st half. We were taking all jumpshots for some reason vs attacking the rim or working to get the ball to Amile down low even though Clemson really could not guard him down there. We settle for too many jumpshots sometimes. It led to Clemson working their way back to even or -2 to 3 and taking the lead shortly near the end of the half but our guys showed good moxie in battling back from the momentum swing following the Grayson tech.

The second half we started strong again put in some new wrinkles on offense and stopped settling for jumpers. The result was good offense an it really got Tatum and Luke going. Jackson and Amile really gave us a boost all game as well. I was hoping we would build on the 13 point lead but this team sometimes fears prosperity, an Clemson is a much better team that some realize. They defend like crazy and have just enough juice on offense to stay in games. It's incredible how many close losses they have had. They had uncCheat beat early in the season and let it slip thru their hands and that seemed to set the tone for their season.

All in all I thought we put out a solid performance today. Our starting 5 was really good. Hopefully our bench guys that play will play better moving forward. Today the ceiling was the floor and the showcase of that was my buddy Bolden pulling a MasonPlumlee and having the ball stolen from him from behind for the easy runaway basket ala MP2 in the Baylor Elite 8 game. I couldn't believe it when K didn't pull him immediately for that but the point was made when Big Vrank subbed in instead of Bolden later on. A learning experience. Mason bounced back from it, and I suspect Mr Bolden will as well.

Survive and Advance. On to UL!

[Utley]

I would just like to give big ups to Chase Jeter. He hasn't played since January, we don't know what the future holds for him, but he is on the bench rooting on his teammates as hard if not harder than anyone else on that bench.

This season has certainly not been easy on him. He got 2 top 10 recruits come in at his position, he was playing early, he got hurt, and since he put his jersey back on, he hasn't come into the game, but he's been right there with the guys the whole way. We've all seen him play and he's as competitive as anyone on our roster, but to stay positive that whole time, pretty incredible.

Thanks, Chase. You are what is right with Duke basketball and the world in general.

Can't sport you but I love this - couldn't agree more! I also believe Giles attitude has generally been pretty extraordinary.

[Papa John]

His recent play is 100% injury related and he is frustrated because he can't do the things he normally does with ease. Giles is pretty much in the same boat just in a different way. I personally think Grayson should not have played a minute since missing the Miami game until he was close to 100% but I'm not the coach. He shouldn't be out there imo.

This is always a tough call for a coach, I'm sure... On the one hand, you know it might be best to rest a guy for awhile to try and get him back to 100%... On the other hand, you're now in one-and-done mode—you lose, you go home—and know that the kid is a warrior who wants to be on the floor... So do you rest the kid and run the risk that his last memory of the ACC Tourney is watching from the bench, or do you go down with all guns a-blazin'? If I'm coach K, I'm talking with the medical staff constantly about how best to manage my guys' injuries, but I want them to know that if and when we're going down in both the ACC and NCAAs, we're definitely going down guns a-blazin, with no worries and no regrets...

[Utley]

Survive and Advance.

I think the biggest re-development of the last 2-3 games is Amile re- emerging as a threat down low - like in the Kansas and Florida games. If we can make teams respect that, it makes room for all the goodness the guys can bring from outside. I think it's critical to us being able to make a run.

I think one of the issues with Giles and Bolden is the short leash - I think it has them playing scared. I don't argue K having the leash - you have to earn being set free - but at some point it can be a vicious cycle. Hopefully they now have one tournament game under their belts and relax tomorrow. On this point, it's almost hard to remember that Tatum and Jackson are freshman the way they are playing - especially Tatum - who may have been the most poised player on the court.

Looking forward to the rematch with Louisville. Hoping this is one of those situations where we are more "warmed up" then "tired" and it gives an edge. Rooting heard for Grayson to break out. I thought when he first came out he had some explosiveness - maybe it was adrenaline. Totally get that the body has been the issue - not sure how to assess body vs. mind right now

[Newton_14]

Originally Posted by CDu http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?p=958527#post958527) Yeah, I have now watched that play numerous times and I respctfully disagree with your assessment. Jones MAY have gotten a piece of the ball, but Thomas still had complete control of it with with both hands, and simply shot it too hard. That is why he was so despondent afterwards. He knew he blew that layup.

I agree about Allen. I am not sure why people can't understand that he is playing on an injured ankle. For one thing, the two ankle injuries were so OBVIOUS. For another, his play has declined so specifically in concurrence with those injuries, and on the heels of playing so well in early February.


Did you see the replay from the baseline looking straight up the middle of the lane? That is the best angle for the position I am taking. Matt swipes at and hits the ball, and to me it looks like that throws off the rhythm of Thomas, impacts his grip on the ball as well and he gives the two hand shove toward the basket vs being able to do a one hand layup. Looking at in from other angles does make it look like a blown easy layup.

my two cents...

[CDu]

Did you see the replay from the baseline looking straight up the middle of the lane? That is the best angle for the position I am taking. Matt swipes at and hits the ball, and to me it looks like that throws off the rhythm of Thomas, impacts his grip on the ball as well and he gives the two hand shove toward the basket vs being able to do a one hand layup. Looking at in from other angles does make it look like a blown easy layup.

my two cents...

Yes, I saw that replay. And I don't think that Jones knocked the ball loose at all. At most, it certainly isn't clear that Jones affected the shot. And Thomas' response further suggests to me that Jones didn't significantly alter the shot.

[Billy Dat]

FWIW, I really enjoyed LaPhonso Ellis doing color on our game today. I thought he did an excellent job. I have liked him in the past but thought he really was tuned into the nuances and didn't resort to easy narratives.

[Furniture]

In the press conference K made reference to Jayson finding 'a new something else'. I just watched the game and as well as playing very well he really distributed nicely by driving then passing. Is that what K was referring too?

[CDu]

FWIW, I really enjoyed LaPhonso Ellis doing color on our game today. I thought he did an excellent job. I have liked him in the past but thought he really was tuned into the nuances and didn't resort to easy narratives.

In other words, he didn't pull a "Cliche Jay" Bilas.

[kAzE]

Grayson turned his ankle very badly in the game that followed the uncCheat game. He reinjured it in the game that followed and has not been the same since. The kid has played at an extremely high level in all games where he hasn't been hurt and early in the year played well despite battling shoulder and rib injuries. The ankle has completely shut him down. He has zero lateral movement, zero lift, and zero ability to plant hard and drive quickly. He has not "regressed".

His recent play is 100% injury related and he is frustrated because he can't do the things he normally does with ease. Giles is pretty much in the same boat just in a different way. I personally think Grayson should not have played a minute since missing the Miami game until he was close to 100% but I'm not the coach. He shouldn't be out there imo.

I thought he played very well against UNC actually. He took good shots, and was aggressive as hell trying to get in the paint. So even though he's not 100% clearly, he still has the ability to contribute. Today, I expected him to come out and make a big statement, and I was a little disappointed that he didn't seem in the game mentally. In my opinion, his play today had less to do with his injury than him just not playing well.

I wouldn't be surprised in the least if he had a great game against Louisville, but I thought he would play better today after what he showed last week in Chapel Hill.

I misspoke a little in my previous post. What I meant when I said "regressed," I was commenting on the steep decline in his statistical efficiency from last year ago. "Regress" was not the right word.

[moonpie23]

adam and joe spent a few minutes today talking about how the media should just not talk about grayson allen.....

[Kedsy]

We were up 13 in the 2nd half and let them get to within 1, before waking up and closing well.

We were up 10 when Amile got his 4th foul. He stayed in the game but couldn't play optimum defense, and Clemson immediately went on a 12-3 run to make it a one point game. I think Clemson made a run in the first half when Amile went out, as well. If Amile is not in the game or is playing not to foul out, we have trouble stopping the other team from scoring, which may have been the problem today, rather than a lack of a killer instinct.

[CDu]

We were up 10 when Amile got his 4th foul. He stayed in the game but couldn't play optimum defense, and Clemson immediately went on a 12-3 run to make it a one point game. I think Clemson made a run in the first half when Amile went out, as well. If Amile is not in the game or is playing not to foul out, we have trouble stopping the other team from scoring, which may have been the problem today, rather than a lack of a killer instinct.

Yeah, Clemson ran a bunch of stuff using high ball screens with Thoms (Jefferson's assignment) and our teo weaker perimeter defenders (Kennard and Jackson). It was a good strategy: Jefferson had to be tentative and neither Kennard nor Jackson are suited to cover for that.

[sagegrouse]

adam and joe spent a few minutes today talking about how the media should just not talk about grayson allen....And these two are...?

[Steven43]

Glad we got the win even if it was a bit ugly.

Hate the GA bashing in this thread (and on chat). The Tech was a terrible call right after he was called for a foul...another terrible call. Hope he gets healthy and goes off in the NCAA tournament.
I agree that the Grayson bashing by our own is very disappointing. The guy has provided so many great moments for us as Duke fans. And he has gotten an unprecedented raw deal from the media and opposing fans. I've never seen an athlete picked on like this for a few quite minor on-court incidents. It's just crazy.

I think there is a lot of jealousy and envy of Grayson that is being manifested as hatred. I will continue to support him in a Blue Devils uniform and beyond. And besides, he's my mom's favorite basketball player by miles. I have to respect that.

[Spanarkel]

This is Matt Jones's MO. He either shoots lights out or produces dogs offensively.

But his defense? Now that's a thing of beauty.

Agree that Matt is usually outstanding on defense, but I was surprised when he went for the steal on the long pass from Mitchell to Blossomgame with about 40 seconds left in the game(after Frank missed the two FTs)that led to a dunk and reduced the lead to just 3. I know that Matt makes a lot of steals but in a situation like that don't you just have to get back on D? Let's go, Duke!

[Channing]

It could be a function of Grayson's ankle, but our drive and kick offense was lethal earlier in the season. UNC pt 1, GT, UNLV, and others. Maybe it is that other teams are staying home on shooters ... but it doesn't feel like we have gotten the same looks from 3 pt range we were getting earlier in the year. Would love to see that come back.

Also, if Coach K would just humor me, I would love to see us feed Giles in the post his first or second possession in the game and let him try and make a move. Everyone else gets an opportunity to take a shot, and I am convinced the reward for a Giles move that goes well far exceeds the risk of a bad shot that leads to a miss.

[FerryFor50]

And these two are...?

A couple of local ESPN sports radio guys here in the Triangle area.

[Spanarkel]

My summary of the game...

I thought we played extremely well out of the gate, jumping out to the quick 5-6 point lead and then stalled due to a combo of just not making good shots, and taking a few bad shots. That prevented us from establishing a double digit lead to work from in the 1st half. We were taking all jumpshots for some reason vs attacking the rim or working to get the ball to Amile down low even though Clemson really could not guard him down there. We settle for too many jumpshots sometimes. It led to Clemson working their way back to even or -2 to 3 and taking the lead shortly near the end of the half but our guys showed good moxie in battling back from the momentum swing following the Grayson tech.

The second half we started strong again put in some new wrinkles on offense and stopped settling for jumpers. The result was good offense an it really got Tatum and Luke going. Jackson and Amile really gave us a boost all game as well. I was hoping we would build on the 13 point lead but this team sometimes fears prosperity, an Clemson is a much better team that some realize. They defend like crazy and have just enough juice on offense to stay in games. It's incredible how many close losses they have had. They had uncCheat beat early in the season and let it slip thru their hands and that seemed to set the tone for their season.

All in all I thought we put out a solid performance today. Our starting 5 was really good. Hopefully our bench guys that play will play better moving forward. Today the ceiling was the floor and the showcase of that was my buddy Bolden pulling a MasonPlumlee and having the ball stolen from him from behind for the easy runaway basket ala MP2 in the Baylor Elite 8 game. I couldn't believe it when K didn't pull him immediately for that but the point was made when Big Vrank subbed in instead of Bolden later on. A learning experience. Mason bounced back from it, and I suspect Mr Bolden will as well.

Survive and Advance. On to UL!

I don't think that Marques is best utilized at the elbow except for screening purposes. He doesn't currently possess a 15 foot jumper(that we've seen), and his ballhandling isn't such that he could dribble/drive to the rim from the elbow. I know a lot of Duke's offense originates from that position through Amile, but he is a fifth year player. Marques belongs down on the blocks.