ACC Tournament 2017

[Olympic Fan]

Just six days ago, NC State beat Clemson in Clemson, but the Pack is really struggling in the ACC Tournament opener.

Clemson leads 39-28 at the half ... thanks to a bonehead play at the end of the half by Terry Henderson.

Clemson is up 36-28 and misses a shot with about 15 seconds left. Henderson gets the long rebound and pushes it up the floor (forgetting the clock), He goes 1-on-4 and has his shot swatted away with just under 10 seconds left. Clemson pushes it up and gets a wide open 3 at the buzzer to stretch the lead to 11.

Terrible game by Dennis Smith so far -- 3 assists, 3 turnovers. He is 1-of-6 from the floor ... finally hitting his first shot in the last minute of the half. Great half by Blossomgame (14 points).

A lot of talk about the tight rims at the Barclay Center. It does look like an awful lot of long rebounds.

Duke gets the winner of the this game -- it's looking more and more like Clemson.

[mpj96]

State mailing it in. Clemson motivated and will give us a tough time if 2nd half is like the first.

Brooklyn is empty. This thing needs to come back to NC.

[kAzE]

Duke gets the winner of the this game -- it's looking more and more like Clemson.

That's disappointing. I wanted another crack at State and their Charmin soft defense. Clemson will be much tougher. Sad final college game for Dennis Smith (are they NIT worthy?), hopefully he comes out on fire in the 2nd half.

[Tappan Zee Devil]

That's disappointing. I wanted another crack at State and their Charmin soft defense. Clemson will be much tougher. Sad final college game for Dennis Smith (are they NIT worthy?), hopefully he comes out on fire in the 2nd half.

No. If they lose today they end the season 15-17 overall and 4-15 in the ACC (season + tournament).

[OldPhiKap]

I don't care who wins. I want quadruple overtime though.

[Olympic Fan]

It's not like the old days, when all an ACC team needed was a winning record to get an NIT bid.

The NCAA owns the NIT now and the last few years, their selection has been rigorous. Clemson didn't get a bid last year with a 17-14 record and 10-8 in the ACC.

The big question is will Clemson get at NIT bid (assuming they beat State and lose to Duke tomorrow)? I'd call it a tossup.

NC State MIGHT get consideration for the NIT if they make a run to the ACC finals (which gets them to 19-17 overall with some great finishing wins) ... but a loss today or tomorrow? Absolutely no chance.

[Matches]

NC State MIGHT get consideration for the NIT if they make a run to the ACC finals (which gets them to 19-17 overall with some great finishing wins) ... but a loss today or tomorrow? Absolutely no chance.

Would be hard to believe that Gott or the players would even want to play in the NIT under the circumstances. I'm sure they're all fierce competitors etc etc but if ever there was a team whose season just needs to end....

[Doria]

Would be hard to believe that Gott or the players would even want to play in the NIT under the circumstances. I'm sure they're all fierce competitors etc etc but if ever there was a team whose season just needs to end...

Yeah, they actually turned down an opportunity to play in one of the new post-season tournaments (if my memory serves... which is always in doubt) last year. So I have no idea what would be gained for them in extending an even worse season. I think they're ready for it to be over, too.

ETA: I must admit that a) I wanted another chance at NCSU and b) I cannot justify this, but I really love Anya. I always have, and I know there are tons of knocks against him, but I love his good nature and cheering for his teammates from the bench, even when he isn't played in the game. I hope he can get his weight under control, because I wish him the best and am sad to see his basketball career end in this way.

[Reilly]

... Brooklyn is empty. This thing needs to come back to NC.

It's opening Tuesday of the ACC Tournament: I'm sure school teachers are rolling TVs into classrooms in Chestnut Hill, MA and Pittsburgh, PA right now, given the excitement, history, tradition, and passion of the expanded ACC.

[Wander]

Going to restate my crazy prediction that the winner will not be UNC, Louisville, FSU, Notre Dame, UVA, or Duke. The middle of the ACC is very good, feels like a year where a fringe tournament team or bubble team can do it...

[kAzE]

Going to restate my crazy prediction that the winner will not be UNC, Louisville, FSU, Notre Dame, UVA, or Duke. The middle of the ACC is very good, feels like a year where a fringe tournament team or bubble team can do it...

I'll take those 6 teams. You can have the rest of the field :)

[English]

Going to restate my crazy prediction that the winner will not be UNC, Louisville, FSU, Notre Dame, UVA, or Duke. The middle of the ACC is very good, feels like a year where a fringe tournament team or bubble team can do it...

Count me in for that one...I'll take those 6 against your field.

[rsvman]

Going to restate my crazy prediction that the winner will not be UNC, Louisville, FSU, Notre Dame, UVA, or Duke. The middle of the ACC is very good, feels like a year where a fringe tournament team or bubble team can do it...

Miami? Wake Forest? Syracuse??!?

[English]

It's not like the old days, when all an ACC team needed was a winning record to get an NIT bid.

The NCAA owns the NIT now and the last few years, their selection has been rigorous. Clemson didn't get a bid last year with a 17-14 record and 10-8 in the ACC.

The big question is will Clemson get at NIT bid (assuming they beat State and lose to Duke tomorrow)? I'd call it a tossup.

NC State MIGHT get consideration for the NIT if they make a run to the ACC finals (which gets them to 19-17 overall with some great finishing wins) ... but a loss today or tomorrow? Absolutely no chance.

Huh? If they win today, lose tomorrow, Clemson's record be WORSE this season than last (when you say they didn't get a berth). They're current 16-14 overall and 6-12 in the ACC. Tough to reconcile the NIT having a rigorous selection, but Clemson somehow getting in with that resume...unless you're suggesting the possible pool is much worse this year (not likely).

[AustinDevil]

Anybody know what sections Duke has inside Barclays Center? Thx

[Olympic Fan]

Huh? If they win today, lose tomorrow, Clemson's record be WORSE this season than last (when you say they didn't get a berth). They're current 16-14 overall and 6-12 in the ACC. Tough to reconcile the NIT having a rigorous selection, but Clemson somehow getting in with that resume...unless you're suggesting the possible pool is much worse this year (not likely).

Different year, different fields -- even with a 17-15 record, Clemson has a better RPI and a stronger resume than the teams they will be competing against. the pool IS weaker this year. As I said, it's a tossup.

Clemson did finish with a 75-61 win ... Blossomgame and Mitchell had terrific games for the Tigers. Smith was awful in his final game in a Wolfpack uniform.

One issue for Clemson going forward -- Avry Holmes, their best 3-point shooter, rolled an ankle early in the second half. It looked bad. He was treated in the locker room and returned to the bench, but not to the game. The ESPN sideline reporter said that he could have returned and is expected to be available tomorrow ... still you've got to worry (sometimes the second day is worse for a sprained ankle).

State's losing means Duke won't face NC State for a fourth straight tournament. Personally, I'd have rather played them than Clemson -- the Tigers are better and I would have loved to get revenge for the loss to State in Cameron.

Next up is Wake Forest-Boston College ... with Wake firmly on the bubble (among the last four in for both Palm and Lunardi), they can't afford a loss to a sub-100 team. Not saying a win over BC gets them in, but a loss almost certainly knocks them out.

[whereinthehellami]

Anybody know what sections Duke has inside Barclays Center? Thx

Any section Duke wants DUKE gets! LETS DO THIS!

[Doria]

Yeah, I'll probably go for Wake Forest, in an apathetic sort of way. I'm editing a show where a plastic surgeon gives people new faces, and so far, the ACCT hasn't really tempted me away from this ridiculous show. Was hoping the NCSU game would, but no such luck.

[Olympic Fan]

Can the mods please merge the two ACC Tournament threads?

[royalblue]

I'll take the top 6 but
I do think WF can make a run in this tourney.
Reach out to Vegas you could get some nice odds on that pick

[dukelifer]

State mailing it in. Clemson motivated and will give us a tough time if 2nd half is like the first.

Brooklyn is empty. This thing needs to come back to NC.

Not coming back to NC for a while- NCAA rules about HB2

[Dev11]

Can the mods please merge the two ACC Tournament threads?

Your wish is my command. Carry on.

[W&LHoo]

Yeah, they actually turned down an opportunity to play in one of the new post-season tournaments (if my memory serves... which is always in doubt) last year. So I have no idea what would be gained for them in extending an even worse season. I think they're ready for it to be over, too.

ETA: I must admit that a) I wanted another chance at NCSU and b) I cannot justify this, but I really love Anya. I always have, and I know there are tons of knocks against him, but I love his good nature and cheering for his teammates from the bench, even when he isn't played in the game. I hope he can get his weight under control, because I wish him the best and am sad to see his basketball career end in this way.

Seconded. My wife and I both just really enjoy watching the big guy play.

[Spanarkel]

What adjustments can Duke make on defense to slow down Clemson guard Shelton Mitchell, who scored 20+ against us on 2/11 and 20+ today against State? Frank played ~15 minutes against Clemson the first game, and Grayson was slowed by severely turning his ankle early in that game, which was only 36 hours after we beat UNC. I assume our energy will be better tomorrow, and Grayson's mobility on Saturday seemed to be improving although not back to baseline. Let's go, Duke!

[gofurman]

Different year, different fields -- even with a 17-15 record, Clemson has a better RPI and a stronger resume than the teams they will be competing against. the pool IS weaker this year. As I said, it's a tossup.

Clemson did finish with a 75-61 win ... Blossomgame and Mitchell had terrific games for the Tigers. Smith was awful in his final game in a Wolfpack uniform.

One issue for Clemson going forward -- Avry Holmes, their best 3-point shooter, rolled an ankle early in the second half. It looked bad. He was treated in the locker room and returned to the bench, but not to the game. The ESPN sideline reporter said that he could have returned and is expected to be available tomorrow ... still you've got to worry (sometimes the second day is worse for a sprained ankle).

State's losing means Duke won't face NC State for a fourth straight tournament. Personally, I'd have rather played them than Clemson -- the Tigers are better and I would have loved to get revenge for the loss to State in Cameron.

Next up is Wake Forest-Boston College ... with Wake firmly on the bubble (among the last four in for both Palm and Lunardi), they can't afford a loss to a sub-100 team. Not saying a win over BC gets them in, but a loss almost certainly knocks them out.

I don't know the NIT now.. but they would be missing a great team to skip Clemson - they are Kenpom top 40 !! Like Lunardi said they are in the next four out of the NCAA. Its just a ridiculous ACC this year. Put it this way. If the Tigers were in the SEC they would be going to the NCAA I am almost sure. They beat South Carolina (at USC) and UGA. The Tigers would be the 4th or 5th best SEC team.

Clemson's Kenpom is currently 35th - the top 30 kenpom always make the NCAA and 30-40 are usually safe or close to get in the NCAA. Clemson's Kenpom is higher than Maryland, Syracuse and Northwestern. I don't think they are getting in the NCAA but Kenpom shows how rough an ACC it is this year and that if the Tigers played in most other leagues they would be int the tourney probably

[gofurman]

Just six days ago, NC State beat Clemson in Clemson, but the Pack is really struggling in the ACC Tournament opener.

Clemson leads 39-28 at the half ... thanks to a bonehead play at the end of the half by Terry Henderson.

Clemson is up 36-28 and misses a shot with about 15 seconds left. Henderson gets the long rebound and pushes it up the floor (forgetting the clock), He goes 1-on-4 and has his shot swatted away with just under 10 seconds left. Clemson pushes it up and gets a wide open 3 at the buzzer to stretch the lead to 11.

Terrible game by Dennis Smith so far -- 3 assists, 3 turnovers. He is 1-of-6 from the floor ... finally hitting his first shot in the last minute of the half. Great half by Blossomgame (14 points).

A lot of talk about the tight rims at the Barclay Center. It does look like an awful lot of long rebounds.

Duke gets the winner of the this game -- it's looking more and more like Clemson.

Might have already been mentioned but Clemson BEAT the Pack 6 days ago and then again today. That first sentence was incorrect. We definitely were the highlight of the Pack's year.

[Spanarkel]

I don't know the NIT now.. but they would be missing a great team to skip Clemson - they are Kenpom top 40 !! Like Lunardi said they are in the next four out of the NCAA. Its just a ridiculous ACC this year. Put it this way. If the Tigers were in the SEC they would be going to the NCAA I am almost sure. They beat South Carolina (at USC) and UGA. The Tigers would be the 4th or 5th best SEC team.

Clemson's Kenpom is currently 35th - the top 30 kenpom always make the NCAA and 30-40 are usually safe or close to get in the NCAA. Clemson's Kenpom is higher than Maryland, Syracuse and Northwestern. I don't think they are getting in the NCAA but Kenpom shows how rough an ACC it is this year and that if the Tigers played in most other leagues they would be int the tourney probably

Agree about Clemson's NCAAT hopes: the worst conference record for a team receiving an at-large bid to the NCAAT since 1960 was 6-10(FSU in '98), so at 6-12 this year's Clemson squad would be charting new territory if they got in(short of winning the ACCT). There have been six teams with 14 regular season losses to make the NCAAT since 1985.

[PackMan97]

NC State MIGHT get consideration for the NIT if they make a run to the ACC finals (which gets them to 19-17 overall with some great finishing wins) ... but a loss today or tomorrow? Absolutely no chance.

Oh dear God, please let the season end.

[Olympic Fan]

BC hanging tough with Wake Forest -- down six at the half.

Crushing blow for the Eagles -- Ky Bowman sidelined late in the half with what appears to be a knee injury.

John Collins is basically a non-factor offensively -- no field goals and 5-7 FTs. But Arians hit three straigtht 3-pointers to open the game, then hits another one later. That's what gave Wake its margin.

PS I don't mind LaPhonso Ellis spending most of the State game ripping State for firing Gottfried ... but when Ellis talks about how difficult it is to score against Wake -- just about the worst defensive team in the ACC -- actually, BC, NC State and Pitt are worse -- that's when he loses me. Wake is a great offensive team (No. 9 nationally according to KenPom) but they such defensively.

PPS As for the NIT, I just checked the NIT bracket projection and they see Clemson as a No. 2 seed and Georgia Tech as a No. 4 seed:

http://bracketmatrix.com/nit

[gofurman]

BC hanging tough with Wake Forest -- down six at the half.

Crushing blow for the Eagles -- Ky Bowman sidelined late in the half with what appears to be a knee injury.

John Collins is basically a non-factor offensively -- no field goals and 5-7 FTs. But Arians hit three straigtht 3-pointers to open the game, then hits another one later. That's what gave Wake its margin.

PS I don't mind LaPhonso Ellis spending most of the State game ripping State for firing Gottfried ... but when Ellis talks about how difficult it is to score against Wake -- just about the worst defensive team in the ACC -- actually, BC, NC State and Pitt are worse -- that's when he loses me. Wake is a great offensive team (No. 9 nationally according to KenPom) but they such defensively.

PPS As for the NIT, I just checked the NIT bracket projection and they see Clemson as a No. 2 seed and Georgia Tech as a No. 4 seed:

http://bracketmatrix.com/nit

So I am asking - has the ACC ever had the NCAA and the NIT winner in the same year? I would think it easily possible. I mean since 1985 when the current NCAA format came to exist. Not way back... I know in 2010 Duke won the NCAA and UNC was the NIT runner up !!! LOL

I could see a close-to-NCAA ACC team doing well in the NIT - IE, Clemson etc. The ACC could have a couple in there though (Q2) - do you have to have a winning record to get in the NIT still?? I think that used to be the case. Or you had to be .500 at least.

[Bob Green]

So I am asking - has the ACC ever had the NCAA and the NIT winner in the same year?

Virginia won the NIT in 1992.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Invitation_Tournament

[Olympic Fan]

- do you have to have a winning record to get in the NIT still??[/B] I think that used to be the case. Or you had to be .500 at least.

As pointed out several times, NIT admission is MUCH tougher now -- the old .500 record is a thing of the past.

Wake keeps is NCAA hopes alive with a 92-78 victory over Boston College. BC fought hard -- they had the game tied with 15 minutes to go, but Wake steadily pulled away down the stretch.

Wake Forest will meet Virginia Tech Wednesday at 7 p.m.

A win probably puts the Deacs in the NCAA field ... a loss to the Hokies and they'll have to sweat Selection Sunday

[dukelifer]

Oh dear God, please let the season end.

Officially over

[weezie]

It's opening Tuesday of the ACC Tournament: I'm sure school teachers are rolling TVs into classrooms in Chestnut Hill, MA and Pittsburgh, PA right now, given the excitement, history, tradition, and passion of the expanded ACC.

Dizzy from the thrill of it all, I'm sure.

But what will happen tomorrow when it's "A Day Without Women"????

[OldPhiKap]

But what will happen tomorrow when it's "A Day Without Women"????

Somehow, someway, I'll still be wrong.

[BandAlum83]

Dizzy from the thrill of it all, I'm sure.

But what will happen tomorrow when it's "A Day Without Women"????

I was watching the ACC feed, but if you're watching on ESPN, I guess it means you definitely won't have to endure Doris Burke if she's in the rotation.

[Reilly]

As pointed out several times, NIT admission is MUCH tougher now ...

The toughness probably depends on how many automatic NIT qualifiers there are.

In 1997 (I just picked 20 years ago), the NIT field was 32 teams, with 16 of what I consider bigger (P5-ish, or b'ball)) schools: Ark, UConn, FSU, Memphis, Miami, Mich, Mich St, Neb, NCSU, ND, OK St, Oregon, Pitt, Syr, Wash, WVU.

In 2013, there were 10 automatic qualifiers, but still 13 bigger schools in the NIT field: KY, Baylor, Ariz St, Providence, Tenn, FSU, Wash, Alabama, MD, Stanford, UVa, Iowa, St. John's.

In 2016, there were 15 automatic qualifiers, so only 9 bigger schools in the NIT field: VT, Alabama, So Car, Wash, GT, UGA, FSU, Florida, Ohio State.

[mpj96]

It's opening Tuesday of the ACC Tournament: I'm sure school teachers are rolling TVs into classrooms in Chestnut Hill, MA and Pittsburgh, PA right now, given the excitement, history, tradition, and passion of the expanded ACC.

Exactly what I was thinking. Remember those TV carts fondly. Politics aside, NC is where this tournament belongs.

[Tripping William]

Exactly what I was thinking. Remember those TV carts fondly. Politics aside, NC is where this tournament belongs.

For this event, these three words are abominable to me: "Tuesday in Brooklyn."

[weezie]

Somehow, someway, I'll still be wrong.

That goes double for you!

[Olympic Fan]

So Pitt knocks off Georgia Tech in the first round nightcap ... interesting finish -- both teams tried to miss FTs in the final 3 seconds and both failed.

Pitt was up 59-57 with 2.5 seconds left -- Josh Okogie on the line for the second of two free throws. Pastner is telling him to miss it, but Okogie swishes the shot to cut the lead to 59-58.

Pitt's James Artis is fouled on the inbounds with 1.6 seconds left. When he misses his first FT, Stallings clearly tells him to miss the second (Tech was without a timeout an would have had to hit a 90-foot shot). Artis shoots this weird, flat FT -- and it swishes too.

Georgia Tech tried to inbound to Lammers at the top of the key -- he was trying to tap it to a shooter on either side, but the ball got deflected and they never got a shot off. Pastner should have tried the Chris Collins Northwestern play!

At least this game ends the silly talk about Georgia Tech being on the bubble. Now, they are almost certainly an NIT team.

So tomorrow's lineup:

Syracuse-Miami at noon

Duke-Clemson at about 2:30 p.m.

Wake Forest-Virginia Tech at 7 p.m.

Pittsburgh-Virginia at about 9:30 p.m.

PS I'm finding the ACC telecast far superior to the ESPN drivel ... except I had to watch the Wake-BC game on ESPN (WRAL transferred the ACC feed to a satellite station that wasn't HD).

[Ultrarunner]

Somehow, someway, I'll still be wrong.

Truth.

[Troublemaker]

As pointed out several times, NIT admission is MUCH tougher now -- the old .500 record is a thing of the past.

Wake keeps is NCAA hopes alive with a 92-78 victory over Boston College. BC fought hard -- they had the game tied with 15 minutes to go, but Wake steadily pulled away down the stretch.

Wake Forest will meet Virginia Tech Wednesday at 7 p.m.

A win probably puts the Deacs in the NCAA field ... a loss to the Hokies and they'll have to sweat Selection Sunday

I have slightly better odds on Wake. A win tomorrow makes them a lock. And a loss... well, you're right that they'll sweat regardless, but they are still very likely in with a loss. My read of Bracket Matrix is that the Deacs have a nice 5 to 6 team cushion between them and the bubble.

Syracuse needs to win tomorrow, though. They probably only have a 1 or 2 team cushion.

[Olympic Fan]

I have slightly better odds on Wake. A win tomorrow makes them a lock. And a loss... well, you're right that they'll sweat regardless, but they are still very likely in with a loss. My read of Bracket Matrix is that the Deacs have a nice 5 to 6 team cushion between them and the bubble.

Syracuse needs to win tomorrow, though. They probably only have a 1 or 2 team cushion.

It's interesting to see the difference in opinion over Syracuse between Palm and Lunardi, the two most prominent bracketologists.

Lunardi loves the Cuse -- he has them as an 11 with a five team cushion (he was Wake lower -- with a two-team cushion).

Palm has Cuse out of his field -- in fact, he has three teams ahead of them in the last four out. He has Wake a bit higher than Lunardi (with a three-team cushion).

I think Wednesday's games will be huge for both teams -- a win and I would be pretty confident ... a loss and I would be worried ... for both teams.

[dukebluesincebirth]

Is nobody watching the tourny today? Just finished up a pretty good game between Miami and Syracuse. Miami hung on after a few rallies from the Cuse. I was hoping for OT so it would delay the start of the Duke game, giving me more time to get home from work to watch it! Oh well. Now it's go Canes and go Devils!

[Doria]

Is nobody watching the tourny today? Just finished up a pretty good game between Miami and Syracuse. Miami hung on after a few rallies from the Cuse. I was hoping for OT so it would delay the start of the Duke game, giving me more time to get home from work to watch it! Oh well. Now it's go Canes and go Devils!

I'm watching--hope you get home soon!

Syracuse-Miami game was a pretty close finish. Syracuse definitely had chances down the stretch, but it never really felt like they had a handle on it (to me).

[Acymetric]

There goes my perfect ACC bracket...

[Olympic Fan]

I agree ... a real interesting game. Once again, Syracuse comes up short away from the Carrier Dome. But John Gillon, who hit buzzer-beating 3s to beat Duke and NC State (well, his buzzer beaten only forced OT, which Syracuse won), had a good look at a three with under 5 seconds left --- and missed badly.

The ESPN guys keep insisting that it doesn't matter -- they're in. Of course, Jerry Palm had them out before the Miami loss.

So I guess this will give us a good data point to judge the relative reliability of Lunardi vs. Palm.

One other interesting point -- Syracuse is now 0-3 in the ACC Tournament since joining the league (they didn't compete in the 2015 tournament).

The only other one of the 15 ACC teams without an ACC Tournament win is Louisville. Of course, the Cards are a mere 0-1, losing their first game in 2015, then sitting out the 2016 tournament.

Also interesting that the Syracuse people were the ones who most wanted the tournament in New York. They tout themselves as the city's college team and boast of their support there. It reminds me of Maryland, which was always pushing to get the tournament in the D.C. area -- but the Terps never did well there (their three ACC titles all came in Greensboro). Ironic that 'Cuse gets a game on "home" turf and they flame out in their opener.

[Troublemaker]

I agree ... a real interesting game. Once again, Syracuse comes up short away from the Carrier Dome. But John Gillon, who hit buzzer-beating 3s to beat Duke and NC State (well, his buzzer beaten only forced OT, which Syracuse won), had a good look at a three with under 5 seconds left --- and missed badly.

The ESPN guys keep insisting that it doesn't matter -- they're in. Of course, Jerry Palm had them out before the Miami loss.

So I guess this will give us a good data point to judge the relative reliability of Lunardi vs. Palm.

One other interesting point -- Syracuse is now 0-3 in the ACC Tournament since joining the league (they didn't compete in the 2015 tournament).

The only other one of the 15 ACC teams without an ACC Tournament win is Louisville. Of course, the Cards are a mere 0-1, losing their first game in 2015, then sitting out the 2016 tournament.

Also interesting that the Syracuse people were the ones who most wanted the tournament in New York. They tout themselves as the city's college team and boast of their support there. It reminds me of Maryland, which was always pushing to get the tournament in the D.C. area -- but the Terps never did well there (their three ACC titles all came in Greensboro). Ironic that 'Cuse gets a game on "home" turf and they flame out in their opener.

I think it's no better than 50/50 at this point. Cuse needed that win to be sure.

[CDu]

I agree ... a real interesting game. Once again, Syracuse comes up short away from the Carrier Dome. But John Gillon, who hit buzzer-beating 3s to beat Duke and NC State (well, his buzzer beaten only forced OT, which Syracuse won), had a good look at a three with under 5 seconds left --- and missed badly.

The ESPN guys keep insisting that it doesn't matter -- they're in. Of course, Jerry Palm had them out before the Miami loss.

So I guess this will give us a good data point to judge the relative reliability of Lunardi vs. Palm.

One other interesting point -- Syracuse is now 0-3 in the ACC Tournament since joining the league (they didn't compete in the 2015 tournament).

The only other one of the 15 ACC teams without an ACC Tournament win is Louisville. Of course, the Cards are a mere 0-1, losing their first game in 2015, then sitting out the 2016 tournament.

Also interesting that the Syracuse people were the ones who most wanted the tournament in New York. They tout themselves as the city's college team and boast of their support there. It reminds me of Maryland, which was always pushing to get the tournament in the D.C. area -- but the Terps never did well there (their three ACC titles all came in Greensboro). Ironic that 'Cuse gets a game on "home" turf and they flame out in their opener.

Here's hoping we get the chance to keep Louisville winless in the conference tourney tomorrow.

And hoping that Miami beats UNC tomorrow as well. I'd love to not have to face a slightly-more rested UNC team if we get to Friday.

[DangerDevil]

Boeheim on the ACC Tourney in his post game presser:
"There's no value to playing in Greensboro. None."

Wow!

[OldPhiKap]

Boeheim on the ACC Tourney in his post game presser:
"There's no value to playing in Greensboro. None."

Wow!

Someone needs a hug.

Then, a swift kick in the arse.

ETA: The top six teams in the league this year were in North Carolina, Kentucky, Florida, Indiana, North Carolina, and Virginia. So we're in New York why?

Seems to me that Greensboro, Charlotte or Atlanta are much better places.

[Olympic Fan]

Interesting post-game exchange:


Q. Jim, I guess the simple question is what do you think your NCAA fate will be on Sunday?
COACH BOEHEIM: It doesn't matter what I think.

Q. What would you expect to see happen?
COACH BOEHEIM: I expect the committee to make a decision.

Q. Do you have an opinion on what that decision should be?
COACH BOEHEIM: Obviously, I've answered that twice already. Want me to answer it again?

Q. Sure.
COACH BOEHEIM: I don't have an opinion. It's up to them. My opinion doesn't matter. Every coach in the country that's on the bubble thinks his team should get in. Every coach. The facts in the case -- I'm not going to say whether we should get in or not. That's up to the committee.

The facts in the case, last year we had three good wins against a top team in the country, Texas A&M, Connecticut who was not ranked, and Duke was at about 18. This year we have three good wins, three teams in the top 10 when they beat them.

I see all the time on the bracketology thing, it says Syracuse has (indiscernible) top 50 wins, and so does this team. That team doesn't have any wins against the top 20.

The committee has always looked at good wins. Everyone says they're home. The tournament is not played at home and not played on the road. It's played at neutral sites. We have better wins than we had last year. We have more wins. We have Miami, we have Clemson on the road, we have Wake Forest. We didn't have those wins last year. We have a couple more nonconference losses this year, and that's something that will, I'm sure, be taken into consideration.

We are universally felt to be -- I think by everybody -- the Number 1 conference in the country. We finished seventh, tied for seventh. Other conferences are talking about getting 60 percent of their teams in the tournament. If we're the best conference in the country, we should get more than 50 percent of teams in the tournament.

People keep talking about road losses. In the ACC, there's four teams going to the tournament that have three losses in conference on the road, and we have two. The only team with a winning conference on the road is North Carolina, and they're top 10 in the country. They're 5-4, I think. And there's two or three other really good teams in our conference that have four road wins.

Those are the facts. The committee is going to have to figure out where it all falls. I feel -- well, I know our profile is better this year than it was last year in terms of top wins.

I think the committee, from what I've gathered through my years, is looking for teams that can win games in the tournament. I think we can. I think to look at today and say, oh, they lost to Miami -- Miami was top 25 team in the country last year. It came down to a one-point game, and that was it. I mean, one game? That shouldn't mean anything.

But that's what I look at, and it's up to the committee to look at all that stuff and figure out what to do.

[vick]

Boeheim on the ACC Tourney in his post game presser:
"There's no value to playing in Greensboro. None."

Wow!

I sort-of agree with Boeheim, in that I think the pro-Greensboro old-guard can be a little tiresome, but I loved Greensboro's reply (https://twitter.com/greensborocity/status/839563546518294530).

[CDu]

Going to restate my crazy prediction that the winner will not be UNC, Louisville, FSU, Notre Dame, UVA, or Duke. The middle of the ACC is very good, feels like a year where a fringe tournament team or bubble team can do it...

This is a bad idea. Want to know why? We are now one favorite-seed win tonight from having six of the top 8 in the quatrerfinals, and two wins away from having a guarantee of one of the top six in the final.

In a straight draw with no byes? You might have a chance. In a tournament in which the top 4 get a double bye and have of your underdogs are guaranteed to be eliminated before the quarters, that is a bad bet.

[Atlanta Duke]

Someone needs a hug.

Then, a swift kick in the arse.

ETA: The top six teams in the league this year were in North Carolina, Kentucky, Florida, Indiana, North Carolina, and Virginia. So we're in New York why?

Seems to me that Greensboro, Charlotte or Atlanta are much better places.


Boeheim said his rotation would be New York, Washington and Atlanta - apparently Charlotte is also the outback for him

"The media centers, the recruiting centers are Atlanta, Washington, D.C., and New York,'' he said. "How many good players are in Greensboro? New York made the Big East.''

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/18855645/syracuse-coach-jim-boeheim-want-acc-tournament-games-moved-back-greensboro

Pretty clear he still pines away for the heyday of the Big East

[mpj96]

Confirms it, Boeheim is a tool.

[dukelifer]

Wake with a last second three quarter court heave at the end of the half. Amazing

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Boeheim said his rotation would be New York, Washington and Atlanta - apparently Charlotte is also the outback for him

"The media centers, the recruiting centers are Atlanta, Washington, D.C., and New York,'' he said. "How many good players are in Greensboro? New York made the Big East.''

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/18855645/syracuse-coach-jim-boeheim-want-acc-tournament-games-moved-back-greensboro

Pretty clear he still pines away for the heyday of the Big East

Perhaps if Coach Boeheim started recruiting North Carolina a bit more he would be more successful - Pinson, Meeks and Hicks, Harry Giles, Dennis Smith and Brandon Ingram (among others) would make a pretty good team. And one of the best players in Big East history was from South Carolina, Ray Allen, along with Mourning and Iverson, who both grew up deep in ACC country.

[fisheyes]

Wake with a last second three quarter court heave at the end of the half. Amazing

That shot was insane! It may be the difference maker! Gott a love the new and improved Deacs.

[VA_BDevil]

Confirms it, Boeheim is a tool.

Luckily for Boeheim he may get to visit the big city again for the NIT finals.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

That shot was insane! It may be the difference maker! Gott a love the new and improved Deacs.

Seriously, he wasn't even trying. Same "shot" made in 50% of games at the end of a half. Stunning.

[Wander]

This is a bad idea. Want to know why? We are now one favorite-seed win tonight from having six of the top 8 in the quatrerfinals, and two wins away from having a guarantee of one of the top six in the final.

In a straight draw with no byes? You might have a chance. In a tournament in which the top 4 get a double bye and have of your underdogs are guaranteed to be eliminated before the quarters, that is a bad bet.

You're right. I didn't really think about the implications of the funky double bye setup. My prediction would be much better applied for a normal 15 team setup where the top seed gets one bye and that's it.

[Reilly]

Seriously, he wasn't even trying. Same "shot" made in 50% of games at the end of a half. Stunning.

Hokies' payback for Les Henson, 1980: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uC2Qbxkr2_s

[mattman91]

I sort-of agree with Boeheim, in that I think the pro-Greensboro old-guard can be a little tiresome, but I loved Greensboro's reply (https://twitter.com/greensborocity/status/839563546518294530).

That was hilarious.

Funny to see high Point's supportive gif in the comments.

[dukelifer]

That shot was insane! It may be the difference maker! Gott a love the new and improved Deacs.

Ran out of steam. Hokies with a huge half.

[Papa John]

This is a bad idea. Want to know why? We are now one favorite-seed win tonight from having six of the top 8 in the quatrerfinals, and two wins away from having a guarantee of one of the top six in the final.

In a straight draw with no byes? You might have a chance. In a tournament in which the top 4 get a double bye and have of your underdogs are guaranteed to be eliminated before the quarters, that is a bad bet.

Perhaps the best way to return the sense of "anyone can win" to the ACCT would be to eliminate the double-bye altogether. To do so, you basically need to institute a bracket with the only bye going to the regular season champs and the rest of the teams playing in the first round. Seven games in one venue on a single day is a no-go, however, so here's what I'd do. Round 1 pits 15v2, 14v3, 13v4, 12v5, 11v6, 10v7, and 8v9. Seeds 2, 3, 4 and 5 get to play their games on Tuesday, and the other three games get played on Wednesday. Play these first 7 games at the home court of the higher seeds (i.e., at the home court of the 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8 seeds). Thursday is a travel day, then Friday begins the 8-team tourney we all know and love... I hate the unbalanced regular season and the single-/double-bye unbalanced advantage of the new ACC Tourney. Equalize that crap as much as humanly possible...

[CDu]

Perhaps the best way to return the sense of "anyone can win" to the ACCT would be to eliminate the double-bye altogether. To do so, you basically need to institute a bracket with the only bye going to the regular season champs and the rest of the teams playing in the first round. Seven games in one venue on a single day is a no-go, however, so here's what I'd do. Round 1 pits 15v2, 14v3, 13v4, 12v5, 11v6, 10v7, and 8v9. Seeds 2, 3, 4 and 5 get to play their games on Tuesday, and the other three games get played on Wednesday. Play these first 7 games at the home court of the higher seeds (i.e., at the home court of the 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8 seeds). Thursday is a travel day, then Friday begins the 8-team tourney we all know and love... I hate the unbalanced regular season and the single-/double-bye unbalanced advantage of the new ACC Tourney. Equalize that crap as much as humanly possible...

I disagree with the idea of equalizing the tourney as much as possible. I mean, if you are just going to make it a complete toss-up, why even play a regular season at all?

The unbalanced schedule is far from perfect. But let's not make it even worse. At least this way we are more likely to have the champ be from among the best teams in the conference.

[Newton_14]

Ran out of steam. Hokies with a huge half.

Unlike previous years, a lot of the games yesterday and today were darn good ball games played at a high level. Solidifies in my mind just how good the teams in this league are this season. Outside of BC an State, these teams can play with anyone. Good stuff.

Looking forward to this Pitt/UVA game coming up...

[Reilly]

Given Boeheim's past connection to slander (literally), maybe it's best to not give too much credence to his off-the-cuff musings.

[CDu]

UVa is looking better with Kyle Guy playing more. They now have an offensive weapon. I think they will reach at least the semis.

[Olympic Fan]

The ACC is not making it easy on the Selection Committee.

I think either Syracuse and/or Wake Forest clinches a bid with a win Wednesday. By losing, they are going to have to sweat the next four days.

Interesting comparison:

Wake 19-13 ... No. 31 in the RPI ... No. 23 SOS

Syracuse 18-14 ... No. 75 in the RPI ... No. 59 SOS

Syracuse has one edge -- three wins over the top 50- (to just two for Wake). Okay, Syracuse also has a head-to-head win over Wake -- but that was a six-point win at home.

A couple of other points in Wake's favor:

If you prefer Pomeroy, Wake (No. 31) is higher than Syracuse (No. 47)

Wake has more top 100 wins (6 to 5).

Wake doesn't have a bad loss. Their worst loss was to No. 75 Syracuse (at Syracuse). Syracuse has a bunch of bad losses -- five losses to teams over 100 in the RPI, one to a team over 200!

The dreaded "Who you choose to play" which has been very important to the committee in recent years. Wake's non-conference SOS is No. 16 nationally ... Syracuse's is No. 214,

Also Syracuse has a problem in that 16 of its 18 wins were in the Carrier Dome ... Wake also has a homecourt problem, but the Deacs have eight wins away from Joel ... that's a big difference.

Now, both may get in and both may be left out, but if one of the two has to get in, I think Wake has the better case.

One interesting note_ No team has ever gotten an at large bid with an RPI as bad as Syracuse.

[duke4ever19]

The ACC is not making it easy on the Selection Committee.

I think either Syracuse and/or Wake Forest clinches a bid with a win Wednesday. By losing, they are going to have to sweat the next four days.

These teams already played and lost.

[Newton_14]

These teams already played and lost.
Someone misread Oly's post. :)

Read the next line after the part you bolded. :)

[duke4ever19]

Someone misread Oly's post. :)

Read the next line after the part you bolded. :)

No I didn't. Olympic was writing as if the games hadn't already happened.

[Newton_14]

No I didn't. Olympic was writing as if the games hadn't already happened. I could be wrong but don't think so. I think he was saying if they won their games today they would be in but by losing they now have to sweat it out for the next 4 days... That's how I read it anyway... He knew they had both lost I believe...

[DangerDevil]

UVa is looking better with Kyle Guy playing more. They now have an offensive weapon. I think they will reach at least the semis.

Looking way down the road, if we are fortunate enough to make it to the finals, I think UVA would be the best realistic potential opponent we could hope for. Based on the way we match up and the fact they will have played the same number of games and played later every night.

[CDu]

No I didn't. Olympic was writing as if the games hadn't already happened.

No, he wasn't. Read the next sentence in his post. Or the rest of the post altogether. What you are missing is the implied "if either had" in the sentence you bolded. But the entire post is talking about how Wake and Syracuse made it tough on the conference by losing.

[CDu]

Looking way down the road, if we are fortunate enough to make it to the finals, I think UVA would be the best realistic potential opponent we could hope for. Based on the way we match up and the fact they will have played the same number of games and played later every night.

Yeah, I am hopeful that Miami beats UNC and either Va Tech or UVa makes the finals.

[duke4ever19]

No, he wasn't. Read the next sentence in his post. Or the rest of the post altogether. What you are missing is the implied "if either had" in the sentence you bolded. But the entire post is talking about how Wake and Syracuse made it tough on the conference by losing.

There is nothing implied there. It's a purely speculative sentence.

[CDu]

There is nothing implied there. It's a purely speculative sentence.

I mean, keep sticking to your guns I guess. But you are wrong on this one. And you appear to be the only one not getting it.

I mean, seriously: read the records. It is obvious Olympic knew they lost.

[Olympic Fan]

I could be wrong but don't think so. I think he was saying if they won their games today they would be in but by losing they now have to sweat it out for the next 4 days... That's how I read it anyway... He knew they had both lost I believe...

Either I can't write or duke4ever19can't read ... in fairness, everybody can make their own judgment.

(But I think Newton_14 and CDu read it right). How can you read the second sentence "By losing ..." and not understand?

[BandAlum83]

If we are seriously going to get into grammatical disputes, duke4ever19, I respectfully direct you to this comment you made today on another thread:


I agree with you and if DukeTrinity11 was making that point, I'd agree with him too. :)


I do believe that it would be more appropriate to use the subjunctive form of the verb, to be, and say "if DukeTrinity11 WERE making that point."

But you know what? I don't think it really important to make corrections such as these (especially if the correction gets protracted over multiple comments). It only serves to clutter a thread, and it doesn't really add value.

We all make mistakes, and we all post comments that at times may not be as clear as we'd hope. I was evidently unclear myself earlier in this thread as someone thought I'd referenced a GA putback today. It was a putback attempt I was talking about. Most understood that, one person didn't.

If you'd like your posts to be corrected or critiqued, I'm happy to help. I'll look them over and make suggestions / comments via PM.

Move on, next play.

[duke4ever19]

Either I can't write or duke4ever19can't read ... in fairness, everybody can make their own judgment.

(But I think Newton_14 and CDu read it right). How can you read the second sentence "By losing ..." and not understand?

Well, that's called a "false dilemma." I think we both read and write quite well. :)

I think I misread your second sentence, because the first sentence speaks speculatively about the teams in question needing to win, while the second sentence speaks of the alternative (the teams losing). I think I read an "either-or" into your post. That's not your fault, that's my fault.

To be fair, you did write the second sentence in present tense, so I'll just tip my cap to you and say, "I was wrong."

Carry on, folks. :)

Edit: to BandAlum: I'm not the slightest bit upset. It was a short skirmish on how I interpreted Olympic's use of tenses. It's both trivial and my fault and not at all an issue for me, nor should it be for anyone else. Thank you, though.

[BandAlum83]

Meanwhile, in a game that is only 7 minutes into the second half at 11:08 PM, Pittsburgh has rallied to be only one point down to UVA

[sagegrouse]

Perhaps if Coach Boeheim started recruiting North Carolina a bit more he would be more successful - Pinson, Meeks and Hicks, Harry Giles, Dennis Smith and Brandon Ingram (among others) would make a pretty good team. And one of the best players in Big East history was from South Carolina, Ray Allen, along with Mourning and Iverson, who both grew up deep in ACC country.

It's Boeheim's schtick, and he has fun with it. As a resident outside of North Carolina, I find attending the ACC tournament in Greensboro to be a tedious experience. There are no good eating places or watering holes within an easy walk. When I go the ACC's in DC, there are probably 50 places within four blocks. (Moreover, Duke Taylor gave me a DBR tee shirt at one.) Plus, I can ditch the car and take the Washington Metro. I'll be interested in the reports from Brooklyn.

[BandAlum83]

It's Boeheim's schtick, and he has fun with it. As a resident outside of North Carolina, I find attending the ACC tournament in Greensboro to be a tedious experience. There are no good eating places or watering holes within an easy walk. When I go the ACC's in DC, there are probably 50 places within four blocks. (Moreover, Duke Taylor gave me a DBR tee shirt at one.) Plus, I can ditch the car and take the Washington Metro. I'll be interested in the reports from Brooklyn.

Wait!!!!! What??????

There's a DBR T-Shirt???

I just passed my 1 year anniversary. What do I have to do to get one????

[Olympic Fan]

Virginia survives Pitt's early second-half rally and wins going away.

That sets up an almost ideal quarterfinal lineup:

UNC-Miami at noon

Duke-Louisville at 2:30 p.m.

Florida State-Virginia Tech at 7 p.m.

Notre Dame-Virginia at 9:30 p.m.

Big question is the health of Justin Robinson, who was limping badly at the end of the VPI game with a sprained ankle.

All eight teams are NCAA locks, so we've gotten rid of the bubble teams ... everybody's playing to improve their seeding

PS I just watched Jerry Palm on CBS Sports -- he still has Wake as the fourth of his last four in (so I guess that makes them team No. 65) ... and he doesn't even have Syracuse in his first four out.

Like I said earlier -- big disagreement between Palm and Lunardi -- the two most prominent bracketologists -- over Syracuse's fate.

BTW: Pretty good response from Greensboro's Ed Hardin to Boeheim's classless comments:

http://www.greensboro.com/sports/columns/ed-hardin-with-syracuse-s-classless-exit-what-s-next/article_e07ea187-da8f-5e8c-b6df-23505ea407f9.html

[gam7]

That sets up an almost ideal quarterfinal lineup:



Why do you think it is not an ideal quarterfinal lineup? If it is because Miami is the 9 seed rather than the 8, I disagree with that reasoning. VT, SYR, and MIA were all tied for 7th place in the conference standings. SYR had the worst overall record of the three, the lowest kenpom ranking and the least impressive tournament resume. Miami is the more deserving and higher quality team.

I think the ideal quarters would have included Wake rather than VT. But I am not complaining. Tomorrow should be a highly competitive day of basketball.

[BandAlum83]

Virginia survives Pitt's early second-half rally and wins going away.

That sets up an almost ideal quarterfinal lineup:

UNC-Miami at noon

Duke-Louisville at 2:30 p.m.

Florida State-Virginia Tech at 7 p.m.

Notre Dame-Virginia at 9:30 p.m.

Big question is the health of Justin Robinson, who was limping badly at the end of the VPI game with a sprained ankle.

All eight teams are NCAA locks, so we've gotten rid of the bubble teams ... everybody's playing to improve their seeding

PS I just watched Jerry Palm on CBS Sports -- he still has Wake as the fourth of his last four in (so I guess that makes them team No. 65) ... and he doesn't even have Syracuse in his first four out.

Like I said earlier -- big disagreement between Palm and Lunardi -- the two most prominent bracketologists -- over Syracuse's fate.

BTW: Pretty good response from Greensboro's Ed Hardin to Boeheim's classless comments:

http://www.greensboro.com/sports/columns/ed-hardin-with-syracuse-s-classless-exit-what-s-next/article_e07ea187-da8f-5e8c-b6df-23505ea407f9.html

That's a sweet sixteen quality line up right there!

[Skydog]

Kind of unusual to have the surviving 8 tourney teams perfectly reflect the ACC's regular season top 8, both by league record and Kenpom ratings. I'm not going to dig through the records but I'm guessing that is a somewhat rare occurrence.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Kind of unusual to have the surviving 8 tourney teams perfectly reflect the ACC's regular season top 8, both by league record and Kenpom ratings. I'm not going to dig through the records but I'm guessing that is a somewhat rare occurrence.

Used to happen all the time in the 1980s.

[Papa John]

I disagree with the idea of equalizing the tourney as much as possible. I mean, if you are just going to make it a complete toss-up, why even play a regular season at all?

The unbalanced schedule is far from perfect. But let's not make it even worse. At least this way we are more likely to have the champ be from among the best teams in the conference.

Respectfully disagree with the idea of what I proposed being "a complete toss-up." I've given the higher seeded teams literal home-court advantage for round 1, then have the seven winners and the top seed (which was rewarded with a bye in round 1) traveling to the tourney venue for the traditional three-day slugfest.

Many have acknowledged in this thread what I believe to be the flaw with the current format: not only are you giving 3 teams a rest day prior to playing a game against 3 teams who have already played, but on top of that you're then also giving four others a two-day rest before playing a team who has either suited up for one game or potentially two already. It's the tourney equivalent of the unbalanced schedule, and in my opinion it takes some of the luster off the tourney championship because the winner doesn't necessarily have to "run the gauntlet" so to speak anymore in order to wear the crown. Just my opinion, and we can just agree to disagree on the matter.

[throatybeard]

Used to happen all the time in the 1980s.

^ Top comment.

The pictures I've seen friends take at the venue include precious few homo sapiens in the seats. So when ESPN eventually goes under, *and* attendance has been low for a while, will the league just generate box scores from a computer program, or what exactly? 😂😂😂

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

^ Top comment.

The pictures I've seen friends take at the venue include precious few homo sapiens in the seats. So when ESPN eventually goes under, *and* attendance has been low for a while, will the league just generate box scores from a computer program, or what exactly? 😂😂😂

It will create a great redistributing of colleges. The Big Ten will revert to ten teams, the Big East will consist of teams in the East, and the ACC will be forced to go back to 8 schools. Everyone will be so upset about going back to the round robin scheduling. It will be chaos.

[OldPhiKap]

^ Top comment.

The pictures I've seen friends take at the venue include precious few homo sapiens in the seats. So when ESPN eventually goes under, *and* attendance has been low for a while, will the league just generate box scores from a computer program, or what exactly? 😂😂😂


But see, the ACCT needs to be in New York. Because, well -- yeah.

[Reilly]

But see, the ACCT needs to be in New York. Because, well -- yeah.

Because it's New Yawk, baby. It's the best, Jerry, the best!! Just ask them. And black jeans complement every teams' colors.

[OldPhiKap]

Because it's New Yawk, baby. It's the best, Jerry, the best!! Just ask them. And black jeans complement every teams' colors.

"There are several dozen things I could do today. Hmm -- maybe go watch a bunch of out-of-town colleges play?"

In North Carolina, the ACCT might as well be a national holiday. Everybody wants to be there. In New York, it's what you slum to see if you can't get tickets to Hamilton or The Lion King until you get to the semi-finals and finals (which would sell out wherever you played them).

"Well, I could go to The Met or to a club down in Soho -- but Virginia Tech IS playing Wake tonight . . . ."

[Olympic Fan]

Tipoff for the quarterfinals is minutes away.

All I can say is "Go Canes!"

[flyingdutchdevil]

Tipoff for the quarterfinals is minutes away.

All I can say is "Go Canes!"

Yes please. ABC! ABC! ABC!

[Indoor66]

Here in South Florida we yell for The U.

[BandAlum83]

Here in South Florida we yell for The U.

UNC threatening to put this game away in the first half. They seem to be getting way too many points off turnovers.

[devildeac]

Canes being downgraded to a tropical depression.:mad:

[Doria]

Canes being downgraded to a tropical depression.:mad:

They keep playing like this, I'm the one who will have the topical...I mean, tropical...depression.

[devildeac]

5-0 Canes run to end the half, but, their FT defense currently needs some help. :rolleyes: :mad:

[Indoor66]

All of their defense needs help!😉😈😎

[devildeac]

All of their defense needs help!������

Yep, now they need 2 TD. That amazing Miami d "limiting" the cheaters to a mere 57% FG. :mad:

[Olympic Fan]

Don't know if anybody else believes in omens, but I was just looking at the weather forecasts for the Raleigh-Durham area and they are predicting a significant snowfall in the area for Saturday night through Sunday afternoon (hard to believe after the spring-like weather for the last month).

Old-timers probably recall that snow has been Duke's good-luck talisman over the years -- especially during the ACC Tournament. Duke's first ACC title was in 1960 -- the Year of the Big Snow ... Duke's program revived in 1978 when a March snowfall hit during the tourney weekend. In 1980, Duke upset Maryland in the finals on a night when so much snow fell that they opened the doors of the Greensboro Coliseum and let anybody in (and still got just 5,000 or so fans -- the snow was that bad).

Don't know if the omen only applies when the snow is in Durham or at the tourney site, but I'm hoping it means something.

Let it snow -- and go Devils!

[flyingdutchdevil]

Don't know if anybody else believes in omens, but I was just looking at the weather forecasts for the Raleigh-Durham area and they are predicting a significant snowfall in the area for Saturday night through Sunday afternoon (hard to believe after the spring-like weather for the last month).

Old-timers probably recall that snow has been Duke's good-luck talisman over the years -- especially during the ACC Tournament. Duke's first ACC title was in 1960 -- the Year of the Big Snow ... Duke's program revived in 1978 when a March snowfall hit during the tourney weekend. In 1980, Duke upset Maryland in the finals on a night when so much snow fell that they opened the doors of the Greensboro Coliseum and let anybody in (and still got just 5,000 or so fans -- the snow was that bad).

Don't know if the omen only applies when the snow is in Durham or at the tourney site, but I'm hoping it means something.

Let it snow -- and go Devils!

Then you should probably take a look at the weather in NYC tomorrow. You'll be happy.

[dukelifer]

5-0 Canes run to end the half, but, their FT defense currently needs some help. :rolleyes: :mad:

UNC cruising. Not looking good.

[devildeac]

UNC cruising. Not looking good.

Hey canes:

"Need 3 touchdowns-clap, clap, clap/clap/clap."

:mad:

[dukebluesincebirth]

That was a boring game. Miami didn't show at all.

[jipops]

If Hicks is now going to finally play to his potential, then you can go ahead and pen the cheats in for Phoenix. This was a pretty good Miami team they squashed.

[dukelifer]

If Hicks is now going to finally play to his potential, then you can go ahead and pen the cheats in for Phoenix. This was a pretty good Miami team they squashed.

Seniors can play with desperation at the end of the season. He can be a difference maker.

[DU82]

Old-timers probably recall that snow has been Duke's good-luck talisman over the years -- especially during the ACC Tournament. Duke's first ACC title was in 1960 -- the Year of the Big Snow ... Duke's program revived in 1978 when a March snowfall hit during the tourney weekend. In 1980, Duke upset Maryland in the finals on a night when so much snow fell that they opened the doors of the Greensboro Coliseum and let anybody in (and still got just 5,000 or so fans -- the snow was that bad).

Don't know if the omen only applies when the snow is in Durham or at the tourney site, but I'm hoping it means something.

Let it snow -- and go Devils!

To get us DUMBers to Greensboro, Southern Coach sent what must have been their oldest, heaviest bus in the fleet. Leftover from the '50s, I'm sure (the rounded buses you see in movies from that era.) No heat to speak of. But...we won (thanks to Kenny D. "boxing out" Buck Williams on the last shot rebound) and the trip back was great (I'm not sure the bus driver would agree!)

I remember that snow was such a good luck charm, during a home game when we were losing (Virginia in '78-'79 perhaps) Art Chandler announced that it was snowing outside. The team went on a run and ended up winning.

[CDu]

So with the win over Louisville, I figured it might be worth looking at our resume compared with Louisville's.

Louisville is now 6-8 against the RPI top-50. We are 10-6.

Currently Louisville is #10 in RPI and we are #15. That will change after today.

Louisville does have the edge in bad losses (0 to our 1).

We have three road wins and three neutral-site wins over top-50 teams. Louisville has one neutral-site win against the top-50.

We split head-to-head, with our win being more recent and on a neutral court whereas their win was at home against a depleted Duke squad.

Should we not now be seeded above Louisville in the NCAA?

[gofurman]

So with the win over Louisville, I figured it might be worth looking at our resume compared with Louisville's.

Louisville is now 6-8 against the RPI top-50. We are 10-6.

Currently Louisville is #10 in RPI and we are #15. That will change after today.

Louisville does have the edge in bad losses (0 to our 1).

We have three road wins and three neutral-site wins over top-50 teams. Louisville has one neutral-site win against the top-50.

We split head-to-head, with our win being more recent and on a neutral court whereas their win was at home against a depleted Duke squad.

Should we not now be seeded above Louisville in the NCAA?

I think Duke is 11-6 vs RPI top 50. That's what the ESPN link said.

Wins - Rhode Island, MSU, UF, UNC, FSU, Wake, Wake, Louisville, Miami, N Dame, UVA
Losses - UNC, FSU, Louisville, Miami, Vtech, Kansas

[CDu]

FSU discards Va Tech. We are now down to the big boys in what has been a surprisingly chalky tourney so far. Here's hoping chalk runs out tomorrow night.

[duke4ever19]

Just tuned in to watch Notre Dame and UVA and Doris Burke was chiding Bonzie Colson for something. What did he do? I didn't see a tech.

[Troublemaker]

So with the win over Louisville, I figured it might be worth looking at our resume compared with Louisville's.

Louisville is now 6-8 against the RPI top-50. We are 10-6.

Currently Louisville is #10 in RPI and we are #15. That will change after today.

Louisville does have the edge in bad losses (0 to our 1).

We have three road wins and three neutral-site wins over top-50 teams. Louisville has one neutral-site win against the top-50.

We split head-to-head, with our win being more recent and on a neutral court whereas their win was at home against a depleted Duke squad.

Should we not now be seeded above Louisville in the NCAA?

We should. For whatever reason, though, Duke has been a bit underrated by the bracketologists. I think as of right now, both teams are 3s.

[Newton_14]

Wheres the Tech? Where's the Tech??? Bonzi slammed the ball down right in front of ref!! No call!!???

[Billy Dat]

Just tuned in to watch Notre Dame and UVA and Doris Burke was chiding Bonzie Colson for something. What did he do? I didn't see a tech.

He hit a corner three and his momentum took him right next to the UVA bench. As he ran back up court, he stayed outside the sideline basically making a jogging beeline directly for Coach Handsome Tony and kind of mean mugged him while practically rubbing shoulders as he passed by. Handsome didn't like it, it was pretty busy league. Grayson doing the same thing would spawn 10 think pieces, but he totally deserves it for tripping people.

[duke4ever19]

He hit a corner three and his momentum took him right next to the UVA bench. As he ran back up court, he stayed outside the sideline basically making a jogging beeline directly for Coach Handsome Tony and kind of mean mugged him while practically rubbing shoulders as he passed by. Handsome didn't like it, it was pretty busy league. Grayson doing the same thing would spawn 10 think pieces, but he totally deserves it for tripping people.

That's hilarious :D (The "handsome nickname, not Bonzie)

Thanks for the info. Surprised he wasn't t'd up for that. I guess the refs didn't see it.

[devildeac]

Wheres the Tech? Where's the Tech??? Bonzi slammed the ball down right in front of ref!! No call!!???

Different rules, different teams/players. Don't get me started here. :mad:

[rsvman]

Wheres the Tech? Where's the Tech???

Wait, this post wasn't about the Hokies second half?

[duke4ever19]

Man bun is laying a goose egg this game.

[kAzE]

Bad job by whoever said a lower seed was going to win this thing :)

The top of the ACC is still the cream of the crop.

[BandAlum83]

To get us DUMBers to Greensboro, Southern Coach sent what must have been their oldest, heaviest bus in the fleet. Leftover from the '50s, I'm sure (the rounded buses you see in movies from that era.) No heat to speak of. But...we won (thanks to Kenny D. "boxing out" Buck Williams on the last shot rebound) and the trip back was great (I'm not sure the bus driver would agree!)

I remember that snow was such a good luck charm, during a home game when we were losing (Virginia in '78-'79 perhaps) Art Chandler announced that it was snowing outside. The team went on a run and ended up winning.

I was a freshmen that year and hadn't yet joined the band. It was sometime after that that you convinced me to join. I had no marching band experience. My high school didn't even have a football team.

Did I ever thank you for that?

[Indoor66]

I was a freshmen that year and hadn't yet joined the band. It was sometime after that that you convinced me to join. I had no marching band experience. My high school didn't even have a football team.

Did I ever thank you for that?

Oh! You were THAT ONE? :confused:;):cool:

[hallcity]

I don't think I've read any posts from Duke fans who were inside the arena, either for the Clemson game or the Louisville game. For any who were there, what's it like? How full was the arena? What percentage was Duke fans? How does the environment inside the arena compare to that at other venues which have hosted the ACC Tournament?

[weezie]

He hit a corner three and his momentum took him right next to the UVA bench. As he ran back up court, he stayed outside the sideline basically making a jogging beeline directly for Coach Handsome Tony and kind of mean mugged him while practically rubbing shoulders as he passed by. Handsome didn't like it, it was pretty busy league.


Young Bonzie, hhhmmm. Plays for a guy who cheered for holes over Duke last year, as I distinctly recall but can't find written proof of. Like begets like.

[jv001]

Young Bonzie, hhhmmm. Plays for a guy who cheered for holes over Duke last year, as I distinctly recall but can't find written proof of. Like begets like.

I don't have the proof either weezie, but I do remember Brey making that comment. I guess he's not a true-blue Dukie. :cool:
GoDuke!

[Brockt10]

I'm sure this has been discussed in other posts but because it has a direct impact on acc tourney seeding I thought it was interesting. The following is a list of the top half of the acc (8 teams) and how many road games the played against the other top half teams:

1. UNC 2
2. Nd 4
3. FSU 5
4. UL 5
5. UVA 5
6. DUKE 7
7. Syracuse 4
8. VA TECH 4


Two things stick out on this list. There also seems to be a trend with the top 6, arguably the elite of the acc, and how they finished in ranking.

[CDu]

I'm sure this has been discussed in other posts but because it has a direct impact on acc tourney seeding I thought it was interesting. The following is a list of the top half of the acc (8 teams) and how many road games the played against the other top half teams:

1. UNC 2
2. Nd 4
3. FSU 5
4. UL 5
5. UVA 5
6. DUKE 7
7. Syracuse 4
8. VA TECH 4


Two things stick out on this list. There also seems to be a trend with the top 6, arguably the elite of the acc, and how they finished in ranking.

Yes, it has been discussed a lot elsewhere. But yes, I think the top 5 or 6 teams are all very comparable in talent. And I think the difference in standings are driven - in large part - by differences in ACC schedule.

[BandAlum83]

Oh! You were THAT ONE? :confused:;):cool:

Good thing percussion didn't have to do much marching. :)