2017 All-Americans

[vick]

Congrats to Luke Kennard for making second-team all-America (http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/news/college-basketball-all-americans-2017-sporting-news-lonzo-ball-josh-hart-justin-jackson-frank-mason-caleb-swanigan/1tnhntha9fb3q1b468aho78tbp) in The Sporting News, the first of the "official" All-America teams used to determine consensus status.

In "unofficial" lists, he also finished first-team (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=211514487) in NBC Sports and second-team in USA Today.

[BandAlum83]

Congrats to Luke Kennard for making second-team all-America (http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/news/college-basketball-all-americans-2017-sporting-news-lonzo-ball-josh-hart-justin-jackson-frank-mason-caleb-swanigan/1tnhntha9fb3q1b468aho78tbp) in The Sporting News, the first of the "official" All-America teams used to determine consensus status.

In "unofficial" lists, he also finished first-team (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=211514487) in NBC Sports and second-team in USA Today.

I'm sorry, but I can't remember the intricacies of Duke's requirements for Number Retirement. If Luke stays another year and his stat line grows even fatter, does a first team all-america make him 'eligible' for jersey retirement if and when the time comes, or does he need a national POY award in some category for the distinction?

[Troublemaker]

I'm sorry, but I can't remember the intricacies of Duke's requirements for Number Retirement. If Luke stays another year and his stat line grows even fatter, does a first team all-america make him 'eligible' for jersey retirement if and when the time comes, or does he need a national POY award in some category for the distinction?

The basketball office will sometimes list "official" requirements as such:

According to Duke University’s basketball office, to qualify for a jersey retirement at Duke in the Coach K era, a player must have been named National Player of the Year, or National Defensive Player of the Year or been an NCAA record holder.

Link (http://www.phillytrib.com/sports/baseball/duke-should-retire-gene-banks-number/article_8d006174-1728-59f8-9c79-c5a15e22410a.html)

However, the veteran journalists who post on DBR all agree that it's basically just up to Coach K. Which makes sense.

[Dukehky]

The basketball office will sometimes list "official" requirements as such:

According to Duke University’s basketball office, to qualify for a jersey retirement at Duke in the Coach K era, a player must have been named National Player of the Year, or National Defensive Player of the Year or been an NCAA record holder.

Link (http://www.phillytrib.com/sports/baseball/duke-should-retire-gene-banks-number/article_8d006174-1728-59f8-9c79-c5a15e22410a.html)

However, the veteran journalists who post on DBR all agree that it's basically just up to Coach K. Which makes sense.

Plus Graduation

[sagegrouse]

Two years as consensus A-A -- at least second team -- would probably do it. Plus graduating from Duke. The only non-grad with the chops for jersey retirement is Elton Brand, as NPOY in 1999.

[Troublemaker]

Plus Graduation

Correct. Good call.

[Troublemaker]

Congrats to Luke Kennard for making second-team all-America (http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/news/college-basketball-all-americans-2017-sporting-news-lonzo-ball-josh-hart-justin-jackson-frank-mason-caleb-swanigan/1tnhntha9fb3q1b468aho78tbp) in The Sporting News, the first of the "official" All-America teams used to determine consensus status.

In "unofficial" lists, he also finished first-team (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=211514487) in NBC Sports and second-team in USA Today.

This wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_NCAA_Men%27s_Basketball_All-Americans) will be good for tracking awards as they come in.

Wow, Justin Jackson as 1st team All American, huh? That's... sorta nuts.

[flyingdutchdevil]

This wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_NCAA_Men%27s_Basketball_All-Americans) will be good for tracking awards as they come in.

Wow, Justin Jackson as 1st team All American, huh? That's... sorta nuts.

I justify it by the best player on the best team in the best conference.

I understand the unbalanced schedule and all that, but give UNC and Jackson credit.

IMO, I think Berry is the best player (and not because of Saturday. But he's incredible at leading a team). Jackson is a close second.

[Troublemaker]

I justify it by the best player on the best team in the best conference.

I understand the unbalanced schedule and all that, but give UNC and Jackson credit.

IMO, I think Berry is the best player (and not because of Saturday. But he's incredible at leading a team). Jackson is a close second.

Those statements don't seem to match up.

In any case, I don't even care about the unbalanced schedule. It's just that he's not even one of the top 15 players in the country.

But, that said, there have probably been worse decisions in the past. Good for Jackson. He's a good player who's been getting over-rewarded.

[English]

I justify it by the best player on the best team in the best conference.

I understand the unbalanced schedule and all that, but give UNC and Jackson credit.

IMO, I think Berry is the best player (and not because of Saturday. But he's incredible at leading a team). Jackson is a close second.

How would you explain Dillon Brooks getting love from USA Today? That one is completely baffling to me. Reverse-East Coast Bias?

[Chicago 1995]

This wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_NCAA_Men%27s_Basketball_All-Americans) will be good for tracking awards as they come in.

Wow, Justin Jackson as 1st team All American, huh? That's... sorta nuts.

Jackson had a great year, and is deservedly 1st team all-ACC, but he's the fourth best player in the ACC. Collins, Colson and Kennard all were better this year, and all deserved the award more. Kennard was better at, well, everything. Even steals. I would have voted for Collins even over Luke, FWIW.

Him being first team AA isn't a joke -- he had a really good year and deserves some recognition -- but there's no way on earth he was one of the five best players in college basketball. Mason, Hart and Swanigan are all kind of first team locks, IMO. There are a number of candidates for those other two spots, but Justin Jackson shouldn't be one of them.

[FerryFor50]

Kennard's stat line was better:


Jackson
Key stats: 18.3 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 45.2 percent FG, 38.5 percent 3-point

Kennard
Key stats: 20.1 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 50.4 percent FG, 45 percent 3-point

And a better defining game:


Defining game: 34 points, 11-of-14 shooting, 6 of 6 on 3-pointers in an 85-83 comeback win at Wake Forest.

And if you're looking at "best player on best team," why not Malik Monk for UK?


Key stats: 21.2 ppg, 46.3 percent FG, 40.9 percent 3-point, 84.1 percent FT
Defining game: 47 points on 18-of-28 shooting and a game-winning 3-pointer in a 103-100 win over North Carolina.

Or Josh Jackson for KU?


Key stats: 16.4 ppg, 7.2 rpg, 3.1 apg, 51.1 percent FG
Defining game: 31 points, 11 rebounds, 4 assists and 12-of-15 shooting in 80-79 victory at Texas Tech.

[BandAlum83]

Jackson had a great year, and is deservedly 1st team all-ACC, but he's the fourth best player in the ACC. Collins, Colson and Kennard all were better this year, and all deserved the award more. Kennard was better at, well, everything. Even steals. I would have voted for Collins even over Luke, FWIW.

Him being first team AA isn't a joke -- he had a really good year and deserves some recognition -- but there's no way on earth he was one of the five best players in college basketball. Mason, Hart and Swanigan are all kind of first team locks, IMO. There are a number of candidates for those other two spots, but Justin Jackson shouldn't be one of them.

Maybe the voters just got confused like some on this board.

Josh Jackson - Kansas
Justin Jackson - UNC

[English]

Kennard's stat line was better:


And a better defining game:



And if you're looking at "best player on best team," why not Malik Monk for UK?



Or Josh Jackson for KU?

Well, the consensus in the punditry this season, and I wouldn't really disagree, is that Josh Jackson wasn't even the best player on his team; that's Frank Mason III. Making Jackson first team AA doesn't satisfy best player on best team. That isn't to say Josh Jackson isn't the most talented or has the highest upside, but Frank Mason was the guy.

Still, can't argue that Justin Jackson's selection is VERY questionable. I was surprised to see it, but not completely surprised--the official POY in the best conference, even if that's not totally supported by the numbers. Don't get me wrong, Justin Jackson had a very strong year, so this isn't to be overtly airing any sour grapes...just reasonable people can certainly argue the selection is questionable.

[royalblue]

Justin Jackson's ceiling is the roof
I'm not sure anyone else's upside is
that high

[MarkD83]

Jackson and Berry III were so awesome this year that they need to declare for the NBA right away. They will both be lottery picks and now is the time to go......:rolleyes:

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Once again, another case of stats not telling the true story. This time on Jackson.

What you guys are not considering is the balance on the UNC team that cuts into his individual stats. For instance, he's not counted on to score at a higher rate with Hicks, Meeks and Berry averaging double figures, along with solid bench scoring. And Hicks, Meeks and Bradley don't leave many rebounds etc...

Watching him play, it's not a stretch to think he's one of the top 5 players in the country.

[royalblue]

Ok Jackson is a good player that has had a very good year
I don't think anyone here has said anything other than that fact.

With all the balance on the team it seems more likely that Justin would shoot a better % from the field but that did not happen

Justin did struggle in his last 2 games going
9 of 27 from the field and 2 of 13 from 3 point range

Justin had the good fortune of not playing the
2,3,4,7 or 9 seeded teams on the road
The road games that uncch did have vs the 5,6 and 8 seeds were all losses By a total of 33 points

Then when you look at the voting and Justin wins the POY by a comfortable margin many are scratching their heads as to how that took place

Congrats on winning the irregular season you won it by 2 games so you played the games scheduled and won it fair and square.

The vote differential for POY for Kennard, Collins, Colson and Jackson Just seem out of whack when many fans of all ACC teams saw things in a different way.

[royalblue]

Ok Jackson is a good player that has had a very good year
I don't think anyone here has said anything other than that fact.

With all the balance on the team it seems more likely that Justin would shoot a better % from the field but that did not happen

Justin did struggle in his last 2 games going
9 of 27 from the field and 2 of 13 from 3 point range

Justin had the good fortune of not playing the
2,3,4,7 or 9 seeded teams on the road
The road games that uncch did have vs the 5,6 and 8 seeds were all losses By a total of 33 points

Then when you look at the voting and Justin wins the POY by a comfortable margin many are scratching their heads as to how that took place

Congrats on winning the irregular season you won it by 2 games so you played the games scheduled and won it fair and square.

The vote differential for POY for Kennard, Collins, Colson and Jackson Just seem out of whack when many fans of all ACC teams saw things in a different way.

[Dukehky]

Once again, another case of stats not telling the true story. This time on Jackson.

What you guys are not considering is the balance on the UNC team that cuts into his individual stats. For instance, he's not counted on to score at a higher rate with Hicks, Meeks and Berry averaging double figures, along with solid bench scoring. And Hicks, Meeks and Bradley don't leave many rebounds etc...

Watching him play, it's not a stretch to think he's one of the top 5 players in the country.

Bai Felicia.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Once again, another case of stats not telling the true story. This time on Jackson.

What you guys are not considering is the balance on the UNC team that cuts into his individual stats. For instance, he's not counted on to score at a higher rate with Hicks, Meeks and Berry averaging double figures, along with solid bench scoring. And Hicks, Meeks and Bradley don't leave many rebounds etc...

Watching him play, it's not a stretch to think he's one of the top 5 players in the country.
That's a lucid, intelligent, well thought out objection. Overruled.

[DukieInBrasil]

How did Justin Jackson make 1st team while Luke made 2nd team? Kennard is statistically superior in (nearly) every single category: PPG, RPG, FG%, 3FG%, FT%, steals, while Jackson averages 2.6 apg vs Luke's 2.5.
I realize that UNC won the ACC and is higher ranked, but they split the season series and Luke outperformed Jackson in the head-to-head. It's not like UNC is a clearly superior team to Duke.
I don't get it.
Ed.- to counter Wheat's point: Duke also had well-balanced scoring, with Grayson, Amile, Frank and Jayson all averaging double figures. By Wheat's logic, they ate into Luke's ability to put up bigger numbers. I concur that Jackson ought to have been a much more efficient player if he was giving up his offensive potential to his teammates, yet he did not lead his own team in any statistical category except points, shot below the team average in FG%, and slightly better than the the team average in 3FG and FT%s. Luke otoh, shot better than the team average in FG, 3FG (lead the team), and FT%s, while leading the team in scoring.
Most people really only look at scoring to determine who the best player on a team is, and Justin led his team in scoring, so i guess that means case-closed.

[TexHawk]

Once again, another case of stats not telling the true story. This time on Jackson.

What you guys are not considering is the balance on the UNC team that cuts into his individual stats. For instance, he's not counted on to score at a higher rate with Hicks, Meeks and Berry averaging double figures, along with solid bench scoring. And Hicks, Meeks and Bradley don't leave many rebounds etc...

Watching him play, it's not a stretch to think he's one of the top 5 players in the country.

Personally, and this is just me, I never watched a game this season from the midwest thinking Jackson was one of the best 5 players in the country. It's ok if UNC fans are emotional about it, I am too when it comes to my team. (I think Josh Jackson is criminally underrated, and he's a 2nd team AA and will be a Top 3 draft pick.)

Every year is different, and this year Mason, Hart, and Swanigan are shoe-ins. You can easily argue amongst those three for who is the best, but leaving them off of the Top 5 would be egregious. Last year you had Hield and Valentine, but the others were more fluid. (Brogdon, I guess?)

So now you've got a bunch of players for 2 spots. Justin Jackson, Josh Jackson, Kennard, Monk, Williams-Goss, Brooks, Motley, Markkanen and a few others all have pros/cons. Sometimes stats win out, sometimes it's team success, and other times it's those "signature moments". (And let's be honest, there is also a bias to bluebloods.) In the biggest game in UNC's season a few nights ago, Jackson was not the best player on the court or make the difference in the outcome (relative to others). Contrast this with Kennard, who (to my eye) won a couple games by himself, or at least kept Duke in games where they would have been blown out without him.

One other thing here, I can't grok the "his teammates suck up all the rebounds and points" stuff. Just about player named in this thread would put up better numbers if he played with worse teammates. Look at Markelle Fultz, his stats are eye-popping but he won't be considered at all, due to his team's record.