MBB: Duke 83, Cheaters 90 Post-Game Thread

[JBDuke]

Put your post-game thoughts here. Remember, no venting or bashing allowed.

[FerryFor50]

Wrong team won. Difference was that Berry was unconscious, UNC owned the boards and Duke ran out of steam down the stretch; missed FTs down the stretch and open 3s.

Still nearly pulled it out on their court. Solid showing that you can't be super mad about, other than the result.

[kshepinthehouse]

If Tatum was a better finisher at the rim...

[91devil]

There shouldn't be any venting. We played well. a few missed FTs late and a few more rebounds needed. This was a disappointing loss but not devastating.

[CoachJ10]

It took a bootsie performance from Berry for the Heels to win at home.

I like our chances if we play them again.

Oh and if Britt wants Luke's jersey so much (he had has hands on him the entire game), maybe he can just ask Luke if he could have it?

[Troublemaker]

Great game. Can't be too upset with a loss, other than that it was a loss to UNC. Props to the Heels, who made the clutch shots and free throws down the stretch. It was sort of the reverse of the game at Cameron. Grayson and his AAU teammate Berry switched roles in this game.

[Tripping William]

The line giveth, the line taketh away. On a neutral floor, we can hang with anybody.

[kAzE]

Dammit!!! We had some chances down the stretch, but just too many near misses on shots, and those missed free throws were back breakers. We played well enough to win, but Berry had an out of body experience and he was the difference.

It was nice, however, to see Grayson trying to get the rim and get to the foul line. That's a very positive sign for our postseason hopes.

Going to stomp around angrily for the rest of the night, then . . . NEXT PLAY.

[fisheyes]

Wrong team won. Difference was that Berry was unconscious, UNC owned the boards and Duke ran out of steam down the stretch; missed FTs down the stretch and open 3s.

Still nearly pulled it out on their court. Solid showing that you can't be super mad about, other than the result.

Yup. My thoughts exactly. They looked pretty good and I thought they had it. Ran out of gas.

We are playing a lot of day games coming up putting a real hurt on my watching abilities.

Go Duke!

[CarmenWallaceWade]

Happy with the effort. Had our chances to win. We've had a tough end of reg season stretch and have played the losses to the end. Here's to a strong ACC tourney showing.

GO DUKE!

[summerwind03]

I feel ok about this one. I hate to lose to those cheaters, but we really hung with them and it could easily have gone our way. We played hard.

[devildeac]

If Tatum was a better finisher at the rim...

If Tatum had shot 6-8 more FT...

[Kjeffrey]

It took a bootsie performance from Berry for the Heels to win at home.

I like our chances if we play them again.

Oh and if Britt wants Luke's jersey so much (he had has hands on him the entire game), maybe he can just ask Luke if he could have it?

Yeah and I thought that hand checking was supposed to be called. Luke had a great game despite their very tight defense.

[Utley]

Nothing but pride here. Stayed close to the end. Lost the game on the line at the end. Amile was money / playing with the foul trouble in the second half.

We could beat anybody on any given night - but will have little margin for error at the same time.

[Billy Dat]

Difference was that Berry was unconscious, UNC owned the boards and Duke ran out of steam down the stretch; missed FTs down the stretch and open 3s.
Still nearly pulled it out on their court. Solid showing that you can't be super mad about, other than the result.

True


If Tatum was a better finisher at the rim...

He did have some chances to score, I didn't sense his usual confidence, there were times when he had chances to drive and didn't...but he still played pretty well.


There shouldn't be any venting. We played well. a few missed FTs late and a few more rebounds needed. This was a disappointing loss but not devastating.

Agree, tough loss. The Heels played well, I thought their defense was solid and aggressive, which is why we were able to draw a lot of fouls, but they got the stops they needed.

It was a really good game, sucks to lose it.

[kshepinthehouse]

If Tatum had shot 6-8 more FT...

He missed a bunny that hurt in the last few minutes.

[Troublemaker]

The other very important, encouraging thing is that Amile, for the second-consecutive game, looked very good. Almost at his pre-injury level.

I don't know if he can maintain this, but if he can, that raises Duke's ceiling.

[COYS]

It's hard for me to be too upset about the result. We had our chances. We needed to make one or two more open threes. Jayson also missed a few layups. Some of them were closely contested but they were still make-able. Joel Berry was on fire in the first half and then made a great play down the stretch to seal it. Overall, it was a well-played game by both teams with Duke coming up just a bit short.

[FerryFor50]

True



He did have some chances to score, I didn't sense his usual confidence, there were times when he had chances to drive and didn't...but he still played pretty well.



Agree, tough loss. The Heels played well, I thought their defense was solid and aggressive, which is why we were able to draw a lot of fouls, but they got the stops they needed.

It was a really good game, sucks to lose it.

I felt like the UNC defensive strategy was akin to WVU; foul every play and make them call it, since they had more depth. Worked, despite Duke getting to the line 30+ times AT UNC.

Tatum was fine tonight; just a bit off. A normal game from him, Duke likely wins.

[summerwind03]

The other very important, encouraging thing is that Amile, for the second-consecutive game, looked very good. Almost at his pre-injury level.

I don't know if he can maintain this, but if he can, that raises Duke's ceiling.

The ceiling is the roof, right?

[Kjeffrey]

The other very important, encouraging thing is that Amile, for the second-consecutive game, looked very good. Almost at his pre-injury level.

I don't know if he can maintain this, but if he can, that raises Duke's ceiling.

Or is it roof?

[Karl Beem]

Tatum bad - game lost.

[Saratoga2]

If Tatum was a better finisher at the rim...

He could improve if he would use both hands but he is still a heck of a player.

[Kjeffrey]

He could improve if he would use both hands but he is still a heck of a player.

I feel like he needs to use the backboard more. Frank is very good at that and I would love to see Jayson use it more often or just dunk! Tatum has become a great college player and he was just a little off tonight.

[duke4ever19]

Tatum bad - game lost.

I read this in a cave man voice.

[91devil]

The ceiling is the roof, right?

Amen, brother. Words to live by.

[dyedwab]

I'm irritated because we lost to those smug bastards from down 15-501, but the effort was there, I saw lot's of encouraging signs, and it took everything they had to beat us at home.

My one wish is that Jayson Tatum was stronger around the basket. Once again, he missed a couple of close in shots...and it cost us. Also, this is a team where missing open shots, well, effects how well we play D. Though that was less a problem today.

I want to play a lot more games this year. This game was encouraging that that might happen.

[CoachJ10]

Could have used a little more Frank getting to the rim in the second half.

[ncexnyc]

I didn't think we'd be the first team to blink, but unfortunately we were. Props to the heels for finally not choking one away down the stretch.

If our kids stay healthy I like our chances going forward.

[Bob Green]

I feel like he needs to use the backboard more.

I agree! Tatum needs to take it off the board more.

[Saratoga2]

There shouldn't be any venting. We played well. a few missed FTs late and a few more rebounds needed. This was a disappointing loss but not devastating.

Generally a well played game. The guys gave us their best. A little more health for Grayson, a few more made FTs and a couple of makes on shots that could have gone in and we don't have to foul at the end. Still, Carolina played well, especially by out rebounding us and point in the paint. Good games from the Duke guys. We are a dangerous team going forward.

[Billy Dat]

The other very important, encouraging thing is that Amile, for the second-consecutive game, looked very good. Almost at his pre-injury level. I don't know if he can maintain this, but if he can, that raises Duke's ceiling.

He was awesome. Buckets were hard to come by, they really defended hard and you could see it wore us out. The Berry floater over Grayson's fingertips was a huge shot. One the next basket, he caught Luke turning his head, which felt like a fatigue play. The missed FTs and missed close shots by Jayson also seemed fatigue-driven. I do think the UNC depth made a difference, Wheat will be thrilled.

[CoachJ10]

Also, was there a memo sent this season that only Duke will be called for travels?

I counted at least 6 on the Heels tonight that were glaringly obvious.

[Kfanarmy]

My eyes say GA was a net negative...agressive but some very odd play. Giles..wow he was just inexplicably horrific. Personally took 2nd half foul heat off of Carolina in what? 30 seconds?

Officiating was odd..not preferential, but I thought very inconsistent

Fun game to watch. A lot of talent on the floor. FJ was incredibly fast.

[UNCfan]

Good game guys. As always, it was super competitive and super stressful at the end. Hope we see you again in a week.

[jv001]

He could improve if he would use both hands but he is still a heck of a player.

I agree Jayson needs to use his left hand on some drives and go right at the defender and not fall away. Good game and one we could have had if a few things had gone our way. Matt with only 25 minutes tonight and only had 2 fouls. I guess Coach K wanted offense over defense. GoDuke!

[weezie]

It was a prizefight, agreed. Kind of makes you wonder about the snoozefests that other schools get so worked up about in their own way.

[FerryFor50]

Good game guys. As always, it was super competitive and super stressful at the end. Hope we see you again in a week.

Not me. TBH, I hope you guys lose in your first round game. :p

[jipops]

This one will probably only bother me for a couple hours as well. The cheats simply made plays, and we missed. Frankly I would have been shocked if we had pulled this out. But this really just came down to us missing shots and them making tough ones. Kennard missing an open 3, Berry making a contested 2, Grayson missing both free throws, Berry hitting a floater, that did it. That's just how it goes sometimes. Remember, the cheats haven't gotten many of these lately.

We're not going to win 4 games in 4 days but hopefully we can win a couple. The important thing is to get into the tournament healthy.

[DangerDevil]

I think it will be a long time before we see Joel Berry go 5-5 shooting 3's in a half. I thought we would still pull off the win. I think we beat the Heels in the semis next week and hope we aren't too worn out to beat whoever makes it to the finals on the other side of the bracket.

[COYS]

If our kids stay healthy I like our chances going forward.

I failed to mention in my post that Grayson's aggressive drives to the hoop were encouraging. There was one sequence that showed that some of his leaping ability might be returning, too. A UNC player was shooting a jump shot but was fouled (I can't remember all the circumstances involved). Grayson was coming over to help on defense and jumped to block the shot, hitting his hand pretty high up the backboard. It was a meaningless moment in terms of the game itself, but it was nice to Grayson jump that high after he hardly left the ground the past two games.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Excellent effort by both teams. Luke was trying to will us to a win. Nice to see Amile back to full strength. I hope Grayson's T does not become the story of a well played game.

[superdave]

I felt like the UNC defensive strategy was akin to WVU; foul every play and make them call it, since they had more depth. Worked, despite Duke getting to the line 30+ times AT UNC.

Tatum was fine tonight; just a bit off. A normal game from him, Duke likely wins.

Yeah, Duke's wings couldnt move without getting grabbed. Duke got to the line plenty, but never got into a rhythm offensively for the grabbing.

[AFL]

This loss is clearly on Coach K. Carolina kills us on the boards while we have multiple seven-footers sitting on the bench. His stubborn determination to play small-ball lost this game tonight. Also, guys on tired legs missing free throws in the final minutes didn't help. And could someone please explain to me how we should expect to win when our defense (or lack thereof) gives up 90 points? We have this mentality that we can just outscore anybody. This team is the most frustrating Duke team to watch that I've seen in the last 20 years. Does anyone else think that it would be to our advantage to lose our first game in the ACC Tournament next week? I'm tired of making excuses. We are at best a 6 seed in the NCAA Tournament, and a 6 seed may be too generous.

[91devil]

Good game guys. As always, it was super competitive and super stressful at the end. Hope we see you again in a week.

Thanks, bud. It was really was a good game. I liked watching the moment between K and Roy at the handshake line. I think they were both appreciative of the game and the effort.

[Devilwin]

Basketball games are 40 minutes long, not 35..And we needed better decision making on shots late in the game. We shot way more fts than them, still lost. Lack of inside defense late was the killer. Been our bugaboo all year, it continues...

[CoachJ10]

It was a prizefight, agreed. Kind of makes you wonder about the snoozefests that other schools get so worked up about in their own way.

Kansas and Kentucky wish they had competition like this in their conferences.

[jipops]

I think it will be a long time before we see Joel Berry go 5-5 shooting 3's in a half. I thought we would still pull off the win. I think we beat the Heels in the semis next week and hope we aren't too worn out to beat whoever makes it to the finals on the other side of the bracket.

It's weird how low his release is on his shot. Maybe with a healthier ankle Grayson gets more of a hand up on that shot.

[weezie]

My eyes say GA was a net negative....

Geez, that's harsh. I thought he was in a much more take charge mode tonight. That's not a bad thing.

But Luke still astounds each and every game.

[kmspeaks]

It took a bootsie performance from Berry for the Heels to win at home.

I like our chances if we play them again.

Oh and if Britt wants Luke's jersey so much (he had has hands on him the entire game), maybe he can just ask Luke if he could have it?


I felt like the UNC defensive strategy was akin to WVU; foul every play and make them call it, since they had more depth. Worked, despite Duke getting to the line 30+ times AT UNC.

Tatum was fine tonight; just a bit off. A normal game from him, Duke likely wins.

If I was a college basketball coach and had even an ounce of usable depth in the backcourt I'd teach that too. Just put your hands all over everybody all the time and keep poking at the ball. It frustrates and disrupts the offense and eventually the refs get tired of blowing the whistle. We got to the bonus with like 13 minutes left and then Carolina got called for one foul in the next 8 minutes or so. I've stopped watching much college basketball outside of Duke games because there are so many teams that play like this and it's not fun to watch. College basketball referees are just not very good. They are not biased against Duke, or any other team, and were not a reason for our loss tonight so please don't anybody jump all over me for that but that doesn't change the fact that officiating needs improvement.

Great game by Berry, credit where credit is due. I'm going to keep crossing my fingers and hoping Matt Jones will find his stroke and knock down some big shots in the postseason because I love watching him play defense. Grayson and Amile look to be getting better. Will we see some Jack White on Wednesday to keep minutes down for everybody else?

[superdave]

Not me. TBH, I hope you guys lose in your first round game. :p

GTHC

[gocanes0506]

Not really upset with this loss minus the lack of or phantom calls. I guess losing a rebound is a foul on the player with possession in the act of shooting?

But im more upset at the give away losses vs state and at cuse. Just one of those terrible losses would be a double bye and both would mean not getting the holes until the finals

[Billy Dat]

This loss is clearly on Coach K. Carolina kills us on the boards while we have multiple seven-footers sitting on the bench. His stubborn determination to play small-ball lost this game tonight. Also, guys on tired legs missing free throws in the final minutes didn't help. And could someone please explain to me how we should expect to win when our defense (or lack thereof) gives up 90 points? We have this mentality that we can just outscore anybody. This team is the most frustrating Duke team to watch that I've seen in the last 20 years. Does anyone else think that it would be to our advantage to lose our first game in the ACC Tournament next week? I'm tired of making excuses. We are at best a 6 seed in the NCAA Tournament, and a 6 seed may be too generous.

Thee, Relax Over Loss, Lad

[weezie]

Kansas and Kentucky wish they had competition like this in their conferences.


No they don't, lol. They'd fold under the pressure!

[DangerDevil]

We are at best a 6 seed in the NCAA Tournament, and a 6 seed may be too generous.

Who are the 20 teams you would put ahead of us? I am willing to bet that none of them want to see us in the Sweet 16 let alone the Elite 8.

[dukelifer]

Duke could peak at the right time. Amile looked like he did at the beginning of the season and Grayson minus his misses at the line- hit some tough shots. Jackson has turned a corner and is playing with confidence. Tatum needs to be more patient. But Duke's bench is very thin. That is an issue going forward. Duke will need to stay out of foul trouble in the tourney. This team is not built to win 4 straight. Will need to win two for a 4 seed. We shall see.

[Bob Green]

This loss is clearly on Coach K. Carolina kills us on the boards while we have multiple seven-footers sitting on the bench. His stubborn determination to play small-ball lost this game tonight. Also, guys on tired legs missing free throws in the final minutes didn't help. And could someone please explain to me how we should expect to win when our defense (or lack thereof) gives up 90 points? We have this mentality that we can just outscore anybody. This team is the most frustrating Duke team to watch that I've seen in the last 20 years. Does anyone else think that it would be to our advantage to lose our first game in the ACC Tournament next week? I'm tired of making excuses. We are at best a 6 seed in the NCAA Tournament, and a 6 seed may be too generous.

This post is way too negative. We lost a hard fought close game. It happens.

[Olympic Fan]

FWIW: Kennard took over the ACC scoring lead today --

Michael Young, who had led the race since December, scored just 14 at Virginia. His average fell to 19.9 ppg.

With 28 points tonight, Luke raised his average to 20.1 ppg.

Wake's John Collins is third at exactly 19.0 ppg.

Of course, the race continues until the end of the season, but nice to take over first place.

[jv001]

This loss is clearly on Coach K. Carolina kills us on the boards while we have multiple seven-footers sitting on the bench. His stubborn determination to play small-ball lost this game tonight. Also, guys on tired legs missing free throws in the final minutes didn't help. And could someone please explain to me how we should expect to win when our defense (or lack thereof) gives up 90 points? We have this mentality that we can just outscore anybody. This team is the most frustrating Duke team to watch that I've seen in the last 20 years. Does anyone else think that it would be to our advantage to lose our first game in the ACC Tournament next week? I'm tired of making excuses. We are at best a 6 seed in the NCAA Tournament, and a 6 seed may be too generous.

If this team bothers you this much, why watch them play? I'm proud of the way the team competed. We're 1-1 against one of the better teams in the nation. We could have been 2-0 if we make a few more plays. GoDuke!

[duke79]

Bookies were spot on...Carolina by 7. We hung tough for most of the game...but we also lost a huge number of offensive rebounds (sometimes 2 or 3), that Carolina capitalized on for scores. And we did seem to lose steam at the end. I hate to say this, but Harry Giles is just not yet a positive force on the floor. Not sure if the injuries set him back too far to catch up this year or what the story might be. But I felt sorry for him when he was at the foul line and the fans were clearly chanting..."over...rated". Ugh. Amile had a very strong game and Luke kept us in it...for most of the game.

[COYS]

This loss is clearly on Coach K. Carolina kills us on the boards while we have multiple seven-footers sitting on the bench. His stubborn determination to play small-ball lost this game tonight. Also, guys on tired legs missing free throws in the final minutes didn't help. And could someone please explain to me how we should expect to win when our defense (or lack thereof) gives up 90 points? We have this mentality that we can just outscore anybody. This team is the most frustrating Duke team to watch that I've seen in the last 20 years. Does anyone else think that it would be to our advantage to lose our first game in the ACC Tournament next week? I'm tired of making excuses. We are at best a 6 seed in the NCAA Tournament, and a 6 seed may be too generous.

I recognize that this is basically trolling, but Duke wasn't actually all that bad preventing second chance points. UNC only had about a 30% offensive rebounding percentage in the game, which is well below their season average. That means Duke's defensive rebounding percentage was 70%, which is actually really solid and about Duke's average this season. UNC, on the other hand, grabbed 88% of our misses. To be fair, a large part of that is due to the fact that Duke went to the line so much. Nevertheless, if we had any problems rebounding, it was on the offensive end, not the defensive end.

[jipops]

This loss is clearly on Coach K. Carolina kills us on the boards while we have multiple seven-footers sitting on the bench. His stubborn determination to play small-ball lost this game tonight. Also, guys on tired legs missing free throws in the final minutes didn't help. And could someone please explain to me how we should expect to win when our defense (or lack thereof) gives up 90 points? We have this mentality that we can just outscore anybody. This team is the most frustrating Duke team to watch that I've seen in the last 20 years. Does anyone else think that it would be to our advantage to lose our first game in the ACC Tournament next week? I'm tired of making excuses. We are at best a 6 seed in the NCAA Tournament, and a 6 seed may be too generous.

Ha! Good one. Yea, all on K. He should have had our guys make more shots!!!

We just lost to a #1 seed on their home floor. It's going to be ok.

How much did Allen play to get so tired anyways?

[Coballs]

As far as losses go to UNC, this one doesn't sting all that much since we've already beaten them once this season, we may get them again next week and we've dominated the series over recent years. This was a great effort and both teams stepped up their level of play, as usually happens in this matchup.

But let's face it...the main reason we lost tonight was because Carolina owned the paint. The trio of Giles, Bolden and Jeter are making minimal contributions at this point. Consequently, our starters were gassed at the end resulting in the crucial missed FTs and 3s down the stretch.

[kmspeaks]

It's weird how low his release is on his shot. Maybe with a healthier ankle Grayson gets more of a hand up on that shot.

I noticed that as well on one of the slow-mo replays going into a commercial. He pushes the ball from his chin which I thought was a no no. Crazy that he's still able to get his shot off so effectively.

[WillJ]

Good does not always conquer evil.

[Furniture]

I'm irritated because we lost to those smug bastards from down 15-501, but the effort was there, I saw lot's of encouraging signs, and it took everything they had to beat us at home.

My one wish is that Jayson Tatum was stronger around the basket. Once again, he missed a couple of close in shots...and it cost us. Also, this is a team where missing open shots, well, effects how well we play D. Though that was less a problem today.

I want to play a lot more games this year. This game was encouraging that that might happen.

Jayson wasn't the reason we lost. Please!

[AFL]

Who are the 20 teams you would put ahead of us? I am willing to bet that none of them want to see us in the Sweet 16 let alone the Elite 8.

I would be satisfied if we just reached the Sweet 16.

[UNCfan]

IMHO, Kennards performance may have won him player of the year.

[CoachJ10]

Duke could peak at the right time. Amile looked like he did at the beginning of the season and Grayson minus his misses at the line- hit some tough shots. Jackson has turned a corner and is playing with confidence. Tatum needs to be more patient. But Duke's bench is very thin. That is an issue going forward. Duke will need to stay out of foul trouble in the tourney. This team is not built to win 4 straight. Will need to win two for a 4 seed. We shall see.

Very few teams have depth, much less quality depth. What happens to UNC if Berry picks up two quick ones in a game? Having your star players make plays is how teams win. If Luke, Jayson, Amile, Grayson and Frank play smart and hard...we can win 6 in a row.

[DukieInBrasil]

once again the losing team missed as many FTs as the difference in the game (7).
If only Tatum could use his left hand.

[Furniture]

There shouldn't be any venting. We played well. a few missed FTs late and a few more rebounds needed. This was a disappointing loss but not devastating.

I refuse to be disappointed.

[Ultrarunner]

No they don't, lol. They'd fold under the pressure!

Not so sure about Kansas. They've got some gumption.

[AFL]

As far as losses go to UNC, this one doesn't sting all that much since we've already beaten them once this season, we may get them again next week and we've dominated the series over recent years. This was a great effort and both teams stepped up their level of play, as usually happens in this matchup.

But let's face it...the main reason we lost tonight was because Carolina owned the paint. The trio of Giles, Bolden and Jeter are making minimal contributions at this point. Consequently, our starters were gassed at the end resulting in the crucial missed FTs and 3s down the stretch.

Exactly! Like I said before, this loss is clearly on the coaching staff.

[devildeac]

Bookies were spot on...Carolina by 7. We hung tough for most of the game...but we also lost a huge number of offensive rebounds (sometimes 2 or 3), that Carolina capitalized on for scores. And we did seem to lose steam at the end. I hate to say this, but Harry Giles is just not yet a positive force on the floor. Not sure if the injuries set him back too far to catch up this year or what the story might be. But I felt sorry for him when he was at the foul line and the fans were clearly chanting..."over...rated". Ugh. Amile had a very strong game and Luke kept us in it...for most of the game.

Yea, pretty tasteless chant at a 18-19 year old after 2 major knee surgeries and a scope causing another ~10 games to be missed.

[weezie]

Not so sure about Kansas. They've got some gumption.

They do.

[Chard]

Duke played well...mostly. Wish the freshmen would pick it up on defense. Overall, it was a good showing.

On to the next game.

[devildeac]

IMHO, Kennards performance may have won him player of the year.

Nah, it'll be j jackson who has his own personal PR machine, j bilas.

[Kedsy]

Well, you know what they say: Live by the free throw, die by the free throw... :p


This loss is clearly on Coach K. Carolina kills us on the boards while we have multiple seven-footers sitting on the bench.

According to the ESPN box score, they outrebounded us 35 to 31. You have a funny definition of "kills."


Does anyone else think that it would be to our advantage to lose our first game in the ACC Tournament next week?

No.


I'm tired of making excuses.

If this is you "making excuses," I suggest you stop.


We are at best a 6 seed in the NCAA Tournament, and a 6 seed may be too generous.

I tried to think of some witty, lighthearted response, but the above statement is so ludicrous, I couldn't come up with one.

[weezie]

Nah, it'll be j jackson who has his own personal PR machine, j bilas.

Although, Jay did have the temerity to question a few calls on us. Maybe two. Somebody throw him a treat.

[superdave]

Yea, pretty tasteless chant at a 18-19 year old after 2 major knee surgeries and a scope causing another ~10 games to be missed.

Didnt Unc recruit Giles? Sour grapes from a bunch of jackarse Carolina fans. GTHC

[Bob Green]

I would be satisfied if we just reached the Sweet 16.

I would give you another negative comment; however...


You must spread some Comments around before commenting on AFL again.

[KandG]

Really good effort on the road against a very good team, but small margins count when you're playing in that situation, and we ultimately came out on the wrong end of most of them. Gave up too many points to UNC on the boards, missed 6 of the last 13 free throws, only 2 assists in the second half, and Tatum having a pretty rough game (13 points on 13 shots) isn't going to get it done.

Positives: really solid games from Frank, Amile, and Grayson off the bench. Luke was just outstanding -- UNC couldn't guard him. We got to the FT line early and often. While we didn't defend Berry well at all in the first half (though credit to him, he was really on fire for a while), we did a better job in the second half before those last two baskets. We defended Jackson very well. Transition D was quite good by our standards, especially considering how much UNC likes to run.

Matt's offensive confidence looks close to zero right now though. While we have plenty of guys who can score, Matt plays enough minutes that he can't be someone the other team just ignores. Also, I have to eat my words on my claims in mid-season that Harry would improve significantly by the end of the regular season. Sadly, he just can't stay on the floor with his fouling and he simply makes too many mistakes when defending on the perimeter.

As far as the ACC tournament, I'll get killed for saying this, but I might actually be fine with us winning on Wednesday and Thursday and then taking the weekend off. This team is certainly capable of winning four games in four days, but I'm not sure that's what they need right now. Practice and rest for certain players might be the best bet for most of the team at this point.

(Caveat: if a long tournament run means the young bigs can get an extended showcase and show an ability to contribute more significantly, and we don't overextend the banged up vets, let's do it)

[MaxAMillion]

I thought that was a good game. Allen looked better than the last game. I thought Jefferson moved pretty well also. Now I would like to see Duke win their first game and then lose to Louisville in the ACC tournament. Playing a bunch of games in a row doesn't help this team as much as rest and health. I am hopeful again...if Duke can go the remaining games without further injury.

[sagegrouse]

Didnt Unc recruit Giles? Sour grapes from a bunch of jackarse Carolina fans. GTHC

I feel for Giles, but he was lost out there and cost us big time.

[DBFAN]

I might be in the minority here, but I think Duke looked as complete as they have all year. We won by 8 at home they win by 7 at home. Doesn't take much to figure out we got a little tired at the end, hence the missed free throws. UNC was tired too, but had home crowd to give them that little boost. I am more optimistic about this team than I have been all year. Give Allen 4 or 5 more days of rest and he will look even better. Yeah it sucks to lose but that game was neck and neck until the last 2 mins. And we did all of that without relying on the 3. Put them on a neutral court and Duke wins.

[superdave]

The technical on Grayson seemed pretty iffy. Instant replay shouldnt exist to go back and invent technicals/flagrants. If it did, why didnt Justin Jackson getn one for tripping Grayson?

Garbage from the refs.

[dukelifer]

Very few teams have depth, much less quality depth. What happens to UNC if Berry picks up two quick ones in a game? Having your star players make plays is how teams win. If Luke, Jayson, Amile, Grayson and Frank play smart and hard...we can win 6 in a row.

I agree - Duke was in a position to win and did not make the plays this game. My concern is the ACC and not the NCAAs.

[DangerDevil]

I would be satisfied if we just reached the Sweet 16.

Ok, then since you don't want to answer who the 20 teams are you would seed above us, who are the 32 teams that are going to knock us out in the first 2 rounds?

[Furniture]

I recognize that this is basically trolling, but Duke wasn't actually all that bad preventing second chance points. UNC only had about a 30% offensive rebounding percentage in the game, which is well below their season average. That means Duke's defensive rebounding percentage was 70%, which is actually really solid and about Duke's average this season. UNC, on the other hand, grabbed 88% of our misses. To be fair, a large part of that is due to the fact that Duke went to the line so much. Nevertheless, if we had any problems rebounding, it was on the offensive end, not the defensive end.

Spot on. He/she is a troll....

[lifelongdevil]

I agree - Duke was in a position to win and did not make the plays this game. My concern is the ACC and not the NCAAs.

Really, because my concern in the NCAAs and not the ACC...and judging from Coach's presser he seems to have that same feeling as well.

[DangerDevil]

The technical on Grayson seemed pretty iffy. Instant replay shouldnt exist to go back and invent technicals/flagrants. If it did, why didnt Justin Jackson getn one for tripping Grayson?

Garbage from the refs.

I don't understand how you can use replay to watch a play in slow motion and determine that something that happened a fraction of a second after a whistle is a "dead ball foul"

[superdave]

(Caveat: if a long tournament run means the young bigs can get an extended showcase and show an ability to contribute more significantly, and we don't overextend the banged up vets, let's do it)

LOL. You think Coach K is going to start playing the bench NOW? Not his bag, baby.

[CoachJ10]

The technical on Grayson seemed pretty iffy. Instant replay shouldnt exist to go back and invent technicals/flagrants. If it did, why didnt Justin Jackson getn one for tripping Grayson?

Garbage from the refs.

Its interesting that had the refs not called a foul on unc...they wouldnt have "reviewed" the play. Strange use of replay.

[Ultrarunner]

I would give you another negative comment; however...

And I couldn't spork you for the same reason. I'd offer to trade one for the other, but . . . I seem to expended my sporks in that direction.

[Furniture]

Didnt Unc recruit Giles? Sour grapes from a bunch of jackarse Carolina fans. GTHC

Exactly. Next play...

[dukelifer]

Really, because my concern in the NCAAs and not the ACC...and judging from Coach's presser he seems to have that same feeling as well.

My concern about depth is in the ACC. Not built to win 4 straight. -Duke has a shot in the big dance

[weezie]

...if...the young bigs can get an extended showcase and show an ability to contribute more significantly...

KandG nails the season storyline. Lot of "ifs" up to now. And the above are the two biggest. Sighhhhh.

[Devilwin]

If anyone other than Luke gets POY, it's a travesty. He won it tonight. The UNC fans chanting "Over rated" to Giles shows how totally classless they are. He had serious issues with his knees through no fault of his own, and those "fans" let him have it.
Losing to them always stings, and people say things they really don't mean. So let's get ready for the tournament. So of the comments (negative) have some basis in fact. None of our young bigs are helping much. I for one agree we should have at least 8 players ready to go. It was in evidence tonight, as our starters were gassed.
I believe we can make the Sweet 16, maybe more.But I swear I don't want to hear any more of this "lose the ACC tourney" talk. Let's win it. God help us if Carolina wins it...

[UNCfan]

Didnt Unc recruit Giles? Sour grapes from a bunch of jackarse Carolina fans. GTHC

I wish the fans would not have chanted against the kid. He is having a tough year and it was in poor taste.

[Bluegrassdevil1]

The last time the Duke program has lost ten games or more during back-to-back seasons was 1995 and 1996. The fact that this season has a strong possibility of repeating that mark is nothing short of shocking to me. Without question, this current team has been the most unique Duke squad that I have ever seen. TONS of expectations met by tons of injuries. A brutal conference. Good wins. Stunning losses. The possibility that every player that has a "secure" spot in the rotation could be gone at season's end. Truly mind-blowing few months.

[duketaylor]

Well, you know what they say: Live by the free throw, die by the free throw... :p



According to the ESPN box score, they outrebounded us 35 to 31. You have a funny definition of "kills."



No.



If this is you "making excuses," I suggest you stop.



I tried to think of some witty, lighthearted response, but the above statement is so ludicrous, I couldn't come up with one.

To AFL:

Please go root for another team. And if Duke has success don't come back around here. Your reasoning is poor and unfounded.

This is a very good team, not great, thanks to injuries. Nature of the beast. So don't be a pain. Please see the thread about enjoying the ride. That, or as Monty Python says, "Bugger off, piss off." Please take it elsewhere.

Go Duke!! This team can go all the way!!

[KandG]

LOL. You think Coach K is going to start playing the bench NOW? Not his bag, baby.

Ha, well in the early tournament games, he usually subs a little more liberally, doesn't he? I don't think he has a choice if he wants to actually get to the weekend without limbs falling off Grayson or Amile.

I agree that if we make it to the semis and finals, and certainly once the NCAA tournament starts, that we're looking at a super tight rotation.

[dukelifer]

I wish the fans would not have chanted against the kid. He is having a tough year and it was in poor taste.

Yep. Kicking him when down.

[freshmanjs]

The last time Duke program has lost ten games or more back-to-back seasons was 1995 and 1996. The fact that this season has a strong possibility of repeating that mark is nothing short of shocking to me. Without question, this current team has been the most unique Duke team that I have ever seen. TONS of expectations met by tons of injuries. A brutal conference. Good wins. Stunning losses. The possibility that every player that has a "secure" spot in the rotation could be gone at season's end. Truly mind-blowing few months.

Kedsy said 11-7 was the "worst case scenario" for this team...and here we are.

[rsvman]

I actually think the refs got that one right. Grayson can't lead with the elbow above the defender's shoulder like that. Had there not been a foul and a whistle, that would've been a flagrant 2. Since play was stopped, a dew ball technical was the correct call

[jv001]

Matt our best defender didn't score and uncheat's best defender, Pinson didn't score either. I guess they cancelled each other out. Next play! GoDuke!

[AFL]

Ok, then since you don't want to answer who the 20 teams are you would seed above us, who are the 32 teams that are going to knock us out in the first 2 rounds?

If we get a 6 seed, then we would face a 3 seed in the second round. That thought is downright scary.

[Ultrarunner]

I wish the fans would not have chanted against the kid. He is having a tough year and it was in poor taste.

Going to half-disagree, though not to pick on you, but the idea that Giles isn't living up to his potential. Harry is having a good season as he rediscovers himself on the court. Is it the season expected of #1 draft pick? No, but for a kid coming back from three surgeries in a couple of years, he's doing fine and is showing every sign of being a great teammate.

[dukelifer]

The last time the Duke program has lost ten games or more during back-to-back seasons was 1995 and 1996. The fact that this season has a strong possibility of repeating that mark is nothing short of shocking to me. Without question, this current team has been the most unique Duke squad that I have ever seen. TONS of expectations met by tons of injuries. A brutal conference. Good wins. Stunning losses. The possibility that every player that has a "secure" spot in the rotation could be gone at season's end. Truly mind-blowing few months.

I am pretty sure that current starter Jackson is not leaving this year. So there will be at least 1 left.

[jv001]

I actually think the refs got that one right. Grayson can't lead with the elbow above the defender's shoulder like that. Had there not been a foul and a whistle, that would've been a flagrant 2. Since play was stopped, a dew ball technical was the correct call

You might be right, but I thought Grayson was trying to use the swim technique to get by the defender. But I guess it's a foul if called by the letter of the rules. I know one thing for sure, the refs missed a lot of traveling calls on the cheats in the first half. GoDuke!

[DangerDevil]

If we get a 6 seed, then we would face a 3 seed in the second round. That thought is downright scary.

Ok, who are the 12 teams you think are better than us?

[InSpades]

You are not going to win many games when you let the other team shoot 50%+ and get 30%+ of the offensive rebounds.

UNC's big men were 18 of 26 from the field, another 9 of 12 from the line, got 10 offensive rebounds (though they did have 5 TOs).

Meanwhile their guards were 16 of 39, 7 of 9.

Their way to beat us was obvious.

Sometimes it seems our defense is focusing on everything except the guy w/ the ball close to the basket. I'd much rather give up an open 3 than a layup, especially against a team that's not particularly adept at shooting 3s.

Yes, Berry shot lights out from 3. UNC as a whole was 35%. That's not what beat us at all.

It's tough to maintain the offensive efficiency we had in the 1st half.

Need to figure out the defensive end of this team isn't going very far in March. Hope they can figure it out soon!

[rsvman]

You might be right, but I thought Grayson was trying to use the swim technique to get by the defender. But I guess it's a foul if called by the letter of the rules. I know one thing for sure, the refs missed a lot of traveling calls on the cheats in the first half. GoDuke!

Hicks had at least two plays where he seemed to be channeling Hansblahblah, for sure.

[AFL]

To AFL:

Please go root for another team. And if Duke has success don't come back around here. Your reasoning is poor and unfounded.

This is a very good team, not great, thanks to injuries. Nature of the beast. So don't be a pain. Please see the thread about enjoying the ride. That, or as Monty Python says, "Bugger off, piss off." Please take it elsewhere.

Go Duke!! This team can go all the way!!

I joined this message board a few weeks ago hoping to have honest conversations about my team. I never expected to be personally attacked. I have seen the true colors of some (not all) Duke fans, and they're not pretty.

[duketaylor]

if he's gonna play so many minutes. I'm surprised nobody else is talking about him going 0'fer. Missed all his fg attempts and both ft's. He's a senior, against unc, c'mon, gotta show up on offense. Can't play 4 on 5 and I don't care that Pinson didn't score; he's far from Matt.

[CoachJ10]

Much like one should never give Gremlins water, dont feed a Troll.

[AFL]

Ok, who are the 12 teams you think are better than us?

Obviously there are 4 just from the ACC alone.

[JTH]

If we get a 6 seed, then we would face a 3 seed in the second round. That thought is downright scary.

They just split the season series with and lost to a 1 seed on their home floor in a game that could have went either way. I assure you this team won't be scared of any 3 seed.

[Furniture]

The UNC fans chanting "Over rated" to Giles shows how totally classless they are. He had serious issues with his knees through no fault of his own, and those "fans" let him have iti.

Just a dose of reality here. If Harry was at UNC wouldn't the Duke fans have done the same? Just asking....

[dukelifer]

You are not going to win many games when you let the other team shoot 50%+ and get 30%+ of the offensive rebounds.

UNC's big men were 18 of 26 from the field, another 9 of 12 from the line, got 10 offensive rebounds (though they did have 5 TOs).

Meanwhile their guards were 16 of 39, 7 of 9.

Their way to beat us was obvious.

Sometimes it seems our defense is focusing on everything except the guy w/ the ball close to the basket. I'd much rather give up an open 3 than a layup, especially against a team that's not particularly adept at shooting 3s.

Yes, Berry shot lights out from 3. UNC as a whole was 35%. That's not what beat us at all.

It's tough to maintain the offensive efficiency we had in the 1st half.

Need to figure out the defensive end of this team isn't going very far in March. Hope they can figure it out soon!

I am not sure UNC playing at home is the measure of the average NCAA team. They are one the most balanced teams in the country. With Hicks- they are a tough matchup for Duke. Not enough big bodies with experience to manage them. As you say- that was the difference and still Duke was within a basket. A few more made free throws would have changed the game pressure.

[Reddevil]

If we get a 6 seed, then we would face a 3 seed in the second round. That thought is downright scary.

For the 3 seed!

[duke09hms]

if he's gonna play so many minutes. I'm surprised nobody else is talking about him going 0'fer. Missed all his fg attempts and both ft's. He's a senior, against unc, c'mon, gotta show up on offense. Can't play 4 on 5 and I don't care that Pinson didn't score; he's far from Matt.

True dat. At least he only took 3 shots today, going 0-3. He was taking a decent volume of shots going 2-9, 2-9, 1-6 the last few games.

Looks like GA is getting his explosiveness back and Amile is rounding into shape. We could be a scary team in a week's time.

[AluminumDuke]

Obviously there are 4 just from the ACC alone.

And which of those 4 is your real team? Also, which of those 4 beat us on a neutral court?

[KandG]

My one wish is that Jayson Tatum was stronger around the basket. Once again, he missed a couple of close in shots...and it cost us. Also, this is a team where missing open shots, well, effects how well we play D. Though that was less a problem today.


Though I posted that Jayson had a rough game, I didn't actually have an issue with most of his drives to the basket (other than the seemingly obligatory turnover where he gets called for pushing off his defender). He just missed some close ones, and that can happen against teams with UNC's size.

Generally speaking, I do think his decision making is up and down -- K said in a past press conference that the coaching staff encourages him to make his moves quickly so that the defense doesn't close in on him, but UNC tonight seemed to make him alternately hesitate and rush, so he sometimes rushed shots and sometimes didn't take advantage of opportunities that were there.

I'm actually looking forward to seeing how he does in the ACC tournament, because he's grown a lot as a player over the course of the season. Tonight's game was a small step back, but he'll make up for it quickly, I suspect.

[AFL]

Just a dose of reality here. If Harry was at UNC wouldn't the Duke fans have done the same? Just asking...

Great point! Of course they would.

[duke09hms]

And which of those 4 is your real team? Also, which of those 4 beat us on a neutral court?

This is uncalled for. We should be OK with criticism of our team w/o resorting to knee-jerk exclusionary comments.

[dukelifer]

Obviously there are 4 just from the ACC alone.

Who are they? Didn't we beat all but Louisville?

[Statsgeek]

My current assessment of where things stand:

Amile - back to his old self
Luke - ACC POY
Frank - coming on VERY strong
Grayson - injured and still not close to himself
Tatum - generally looking good sometimes reverts back to old contested jumper self....cannot finish in transition

Matt - lost all offensive confidence; now a liability on the court
Giles - looks completely lost and a high ball screen against him allows other teams to score at will

Bolden - don't even know what to say...


This team should be fine in the tournament but outstanding questions/we will lose if:

1) Jefferson gets in foul trouble --- Giles and Bolden are our downfall
2) Tatum reverts back to first half of season self
3) Grayson never gets healthy

I think all in all this season was star crossed. Bolden and Giles never panned out so although we have the best wings in the country (Kennard, Allen, Tatum) we have no depth or interior defense.

[duke09hms]

Great point! Of course they would.

Mmmmm I disagree. We'd probably know of his injury history especially his high-profile status.

[AFL]

This is uncalled for. We should be OK with criticism of our team w/o resorting to knee-jerk exclusionary comments.

Thank you! This is the most reasonable post I've seen in the last 15 minutes.

[DangerDevil]

Obviously there are 4 just from the ACC alone.

Ok, even though we went 3-3 against those 4 teams with all three losses on the road, for arguments sake I will give you those 4, who are the other 8 teams? Who are the next 8 teams that deserve to be ahead of us to make us a 6 seed?

[BandAlum83]

The ceiling is the roof, right?

Raise the roof!

Whoop! Whoop!

[Furniture]

I joined this message board a few weeks ago hoping to have honest conversations about my team. I never expected to be personally attacked. I have seen the true colors of some (not all) Duke fans, and they're not pretty.

I have felt like this in the past. Don't give up though. It is the internet after all but reasonable/sensible posts over time win...

[dukelifer]

True dat. At least he only took 3 shots today, going 0-3. He was taking a decent volume of shots going 2-9, 2-9, 1-6 the last few games.

Looks like GA is getting his explosiveness back and Amile is rounding into shape. We could be a scary team in a week's time.

Jones has been in a big time shooting slump. Definitely an issue. Maybe he finds his stroke. It would be helpful. But his D is excellent and that cannot be undervalued.

[Furniture]

Matt our best defender didn't score and uncheat's best defender, Pinson didn't score either. I guess they cancelled each other out. Next play! GoDuke!

Interesting enough Pinson had 0 points but 7 assists. Matt had 1 assist. Berry had 1 assist. Go figure!

[dukelifer]

My current assessment of where things stand:

Amile - back to his old self
Luke - ACC POY
Frank - coming on VERY strong
Grayson - injured and still not close to himself
Tatum - generally looking good sometimes reverts back to old contested jumper self...cannot finish in transition

Matt - lost all offensive confidence; now a liability on the court
Giles - looks completely lost and a high ball screen against him allows other teams to score at will

Bolden - don't even know what to say...


This team should be fine in the tournament but outstanding questions/we will lose if:

1) Jefferson gets in foul trouble --- Giles and Bolden are our downfall
2) Tatum reverts back to first half of season self
3) Grayson never gets healthy

I think all in all this season was star crossed. Bolden and Giles never panned out so although we have the best wings in the country (Kennard, Allen, Tatum) we have no depth or interior defense.
Can't agree that Matt is a liability. He usually shuts down the other teams best scorer. That is very valuable.

[AFL]

Ok, even though we went 3-3 against those 4 teams with all three losses on the road, for arguments sake I will give you those 4, who are the other 8 teams? Who are the next 8 teams that deserve to be ahead of us to make us a 6 seed?

Do you even follow the weekly Top 25 polls? Believe it or not, there are some very good teams outside of the ACC as well. For example, the PAC-12 has 3 pretty awesome teams.

[AFL]

I have felt like this in the past. Don't give up though. It is the internet after all but reasonable/sensible posts over time win...

Thanks for the encouragement.

[dukelifer]

Do you even follow the weekly Top 25 polls? Believe it or not, there are some very good teams outside of the ACC as well. For example, the PAC-12 has 3 pretty awesome teams.

How many of the PAC 12 teams do you expect in the final 8? How many in the FF?

[jipops]

I feel for Giles, but he was lost out there and cost us big time.

To me this may actually sting more than the loss itself. Maybe because it has bigger picture implications. Harry has yet to even demonstrate that he can be an effective ACC level player, which is weird considering he is still on 1st round draft boards. As much as Jabari had "IT", Harry hasn't found any of "IT" yet. And at this point, that isn't going to happen in a Duke uniform. The knee injuries took all of that away. Pairing some sort of effective big with Amile on the roster would have been huge for this season.

Still we've got a pretty darn good team we can put out on the floor. I just wish what occurs in the paint didn't have to ride almost entirely on Amile's shoulders.

[freshmanjs]

How many of the PAC 12 teams do you expect in the final 8? How many in the FF?

Not sure what you guys are getting at. If we lose Wednesday and limp into selection Sunday having lost 4 of 5, then a 6 seed is a possibility.

[DangerDevil]

Do you even follow the weekly Top 25 polls? Believe it or not, there are some very good teams outside of the ACC as well. For example, the PAC-12 has 3 pretty awesome teams.

Not really, but if you take the rankings as gospel, we are 17th, 14th and 13th in AP, USA Today, and RPI, even taking our worst ranking (17th) who are the 3 teams you move ahead of us to make us a 6th seed (21st overall)?

[InSpades]

Can't agree that Matt is a liability. He usually shuts down the other teams best scorer. That is very valuable.

When Duke switches almost everything... how can Matt actually shut down anyone? Matt is clearly Duke's best defensive player but that is not really saying very much.

It is hard to quantify the pressure he puts on the other 4 Duke players at the offensive end by not being a threat to score but it is certainly non-zero.

[Kedsy]

Kedsy said 11-7 was the "worst case scenario" for this team...and here we are.

So, are you saying that I was right or that I was wrong?


You are not going to win many games when you let the other team shoot 50%+ and get 30%+ of the offensive rebounds.

FWIW, 30% isn't a lot of offensive rebounds. In fact, every single Duke team since they started keeping offensive rebounds as a stat (in 1987) has given up more than 30% of the available opponents' offensive rebounds, not just occasionally but on average over the entire season. That's every Duke team over 30 years. In fact, our 1992 team gave up an average eFG% of 50.5% (and, yes, eFG% is different from regular FG%, but it might be more important), while also giving up an average of 37.2% opposing offensive rebounds, and that team won a whole lot of games, including the last one.

[AFL]

Not sure what you guys are getting at. If we lose Wednesday and limp into selection Sunday having lost 4 of 5, then a 6 seed is a possibility.

Spot-on analysis. This is my point.

[DBFAN]

I'm not sure why so many are being so pessimistic about Grayson. What I saw tonight gave me a lot of hope. Diving on floor, going after rebounds. Still a little tender, but a week ago he wouldn't be doing that. Imagine how much better he will look next week and the week after that

[dukelifer]

Not sure what you guys are getting at. If we lose Wednesday and limp into selection Sunday having lost 4 of 5, then a 6 seed is a possibility.

Duke has been in every one of those games. Not sure I would call it limping. I think Duke is a 5 - maybe a 4.

[freshmanjs]

So, are you saying that I was right or that I was wrong?


It would be depressing to think the season went as poorly as it could possibly have gone. I don't think that's what happened. (So, I do not think 11-7 was the worst case scenario at all)

[freshmanjs]

Duke has been in every one of those games. Not sure I would call it limping. I think Duke is a 5 - maybe a 4.

Clemson has been in most of their games...that doesn't get rewarded by the committee.

[Statsgeek]

Can't agree that Matt is a liability. He usually shuts down the other teams best scorer. That is very valuable.

He simply cannot score....

Frank is just fine defensively and can score.

[dukelifer]

When Duke switches almost everything... how can Matt actually shut down anyone? Matt is clearly Duke's best defensive player but that is not really saying very much.

It is hard to quantify the pressure he puts on the other 4 Duke players at the offensive end by not being a threat to score but it is certainly non-zero.

So are you saying his D is negligible? Why does K keep him out there?

[Statsgeek]

When Duke switches almost everything... how can Matt actually shut down anyone? Matt is clearly Duke's best defensive player but that is not really saying very much.

It is hard to quantify the pressure he puts on the other 4 Duke players at the offensive end by not being a threat to score but it is certainly non-zero.

Exactly. Not to mention there are times (Denis smith) where he has a complete inability to shut down a faster/more athletic player.

[Furniture]

I'm not sure why so many are being so pessimistic about Grayson. What I saw tonight gave me a lot of hope. Diving on floor, going after rebounds. Still a little tender, but a week ago he wouldn't be doing that. Imagine how much better he will look next week and the week after that

I agree!!!!

[AFL]

Clemson has been in most of their games...that doesn't get rewarded by the committee.

And we only beat Clemson by 2 points at Cameron.

[dukelifer]

Clemson has been in most of their games...that doesn't get rewarded by the committee.

Because you actually have to win most of them.

[Kfanarmy]

Geez, that's harsh. I thought he was in a much more take charge mode tonight. That's not a bad thing.

But Luke still astounds each and every game.

Yes. GA was more agressive, but his technical directly resulted in Duke going from up three to down one. For the most part when he brought the ball up court, he simply passed to a guarded player at the top of the key, rather than looking to initiate the offense. I am a GA fan, but though he looked a bit healthier, I don't think he had a good game.

I also thought the Technical was the right call. His elbow was shoulder high for no good reason except to discourage the defender. Don't want to see a guy's teeth knocked out or a broken jaw because of recklessness.

I feel for Giles. IDK what is going on there, but he was a hot mess. He looked like an average freshman in his first ACC game, rather than a lottery pick in his 16th. Is he as talented as everyone thought but still on his way back from injury or was he higher on the recruiting boards than he should have been? Maybe a bit of both, but he hasn't shown too many signs of being a lottery pick

[Statsgeek]

So are you saying his D is negligible? Why does K keep him out there?

Good question. Statistically the +/- much better when Frank is out there with Grayson.

His D is not negligible but his offense has come to a screeching halt.

It's all about "is there a better option?" and yes it's Frank.

Ideal lineup:

Frank
Healthy Grayson
Luke
Tatum
Jefferson

[freshmanjs]

Because you actually have to win most of them.

Exactly. So losing 4 of 5 is losing 4 of 5 to the committee. Almost doesn't matter for seeding.

[AFL]

He simply cannot score...

Frank is just fine defensively and can score.

I absolutely love Frank Jackson. He has impressed me the most of all the freshmen this season.

[Steven43]

Also, was there a memo sent this season that only Duke will be called for travels?

I counted at least 6 on the Heels tonight that were glaringly obvious.

How about the uncalled travel by Hicks in the first half where he took at least two extra steps, and maybe three, and then got a layup? Was that amazing or what? And Bilas, of course, gushes over Hicks instead of pointing out his obvious travel.

[DBFAN]

Exactly. So losing 4 of 5 is losing 4 of 5 to the committee. Almost doesn't matter for seeding.

But that is with an assumption that we lose next game. Not really fair to predict stuff and use it as justification

[dukelifer]

Exactly. So losing 4 of 5 is losing 4 of 5 to the committee. Almost doesn't matter for seeding.

We shall see. The difference between Duke and the 1 seeds is not great. At some point you have to beat good teams.

[freshmanjs]

But that is with an assumption that we lose next game. Not really fair to predict stuff and use it as justification

Huh? I didn't predict anything. I said if we lose Wednesday, then a 6 seed is possible.

[DBFAN]

Ok you are just splitting hairs. Assumption is the basis of your argument. You are saying if we lose then a 6 seed is possible. One could also assume that if we win Tiourney that a 2 or 3 is possible. I'm just saying let it play out first before declaring what they will get

[freshmanjs]

Ok you are just splitting hairs. Assumption is the basis of your argument. You are saying if we lose then a 6 seed is possible. One could also assume that if we win Tiourney that a 2 or 3 is possible. I'm just saying let it play out first before declaring what they will get

Of course a 2 or 3 is possible on the upside.

[KandG]

The last time the Duke program has lost ten games or more during back-to-back seasons was 1995 and 1996. The fact that this season has a strong possibility of repeating that mark is nothing short of shocking to me. Without question, this current team has been the most unique Duke squad that I have ever seen. TONS of expectations met by tons of injuries. A brutal conference. Good wins. Stunning losses.

...Truly mind-blowing few months.

Weird thing is the thought has crossed my mind a few times that this year's team, with all its ailments and bad luck, may turn out to be a modestly upgraded version of last year's group. 2017 Kennard is light years ahead of last year's version, but 2017 hobbled Matt Jones/Grayson Allen have lately been worse than last year's versions. For argument's sake, let's say Tatum = Ingram. 2017 Amile is obviously >> Marshall Plumlee. Frank Jackson is better than Derryck Thornton, but Giles/Bolden currently have the same minimal impact that Chase Jeter had last year off the bench.

I realize this comparison is a bit unfair to this year's team given how much more difficult the conference schedule has been, but that such a comparison can even be discussed shows, as you say, what a strange year it's been. How different would it have been if even the short rotation of six core players were all fully healthy for most of the conference schedule and had more playing time together? We'll never know.

There is still time for this year's team to take another step forward if Grayson (in particular) can heal by the time of the NCAA tournament, but the hopes we had for the bigs seem to be increasingly wishful, which limits the upside.

[InSpades]

So are you saying his D is negligible? Why does K keep him out there?

I didn't say negligible... but it's not as much as many of you seem to think.

If you say that Matt is a significantly better defensive player than say... Luke... don't you think the other team knows that as well?

If Duke will 100% of the time switch Luke and Matt on defense... why would you ever challenge Matt?

Matt is not a shutdown defender... he is a good defender.

The question of whether having another offensive threat on the floor would be worthwhile is valid... though I think the current debate is kind of moot. Duke has basically 6 guys that K trusts to play. They are all going to get significant time.

[DBFAN]

Of course a 2 or 3 is possible on the upside.

Yes I agree. Predicting was a bad choice of words on my part I will admit

[BlueDevilBrowns]

Huh? I didn't predict anything. I said if we lose Wednesday, then a 6 seed is possible.

We have 10 wins vs the RPI top 50. We're not going to be a 6 seed.

The Committee doesn't look at "Last 10 games" anymore, but rather the entire body of work.

We will likely be a top 4 seed regardless of our ACCT performance.

[DBFAN]

I really think the ACC tourney couldn't come at a better time. We looked like a team tonight and getting several games in a few days is what they need to build chemistry. I know they are thin but I have to think this will help them gel more than anything

[bleedingblue88]

Matt Jones seriously has no business playing more than a few spot minutes a game, much less starting. He has not improved his game at all since he got to Duke, honestly he's probably regressed some. But who can take his minutes? Coach K's lineup is what it is now, we gotta ride with him and hope he magically learns how to shoot in the tournament.

[Utley]

Yes. GA was more agressive, but his technical directly resulted in Duke going from up three to down one. For the most part when he brought the ball up court, he simply passed to a guarded player at the top of the key, rather than looking to initiate the offense. I am a GA fan, but though he looked a bit healthier, I don't think he had a good game.

I also thought the Technical was the right call. His elbow was shoulder high for no good reason except to discourage the defender. Don't want to see a guy's teeth knocked out or a broken jaw because of recklessness.

I feel for Giles. IDK what is going on there, but he was a hot mess. He looked like an average freshman in his first ACC game, rather than a lottery pick in his 16th. Is he as talented as everyone thought but still on his way back from injury or was he higher on the recruiting boards than he should have been? Maybe a bit of both, but he hasn't shown too many signs of being a lottery pick

I think I feel worse for Giles than you do. Physically he is still wearing the knee brace which I think just kills his lateral quickness and results in many of the shortcomings we see. That being said, I would still have the knee brace on if I were him. Mentally - I can't even imagine being a teenage transcendent talent that literally has to try and re-establish his identity against a series of scarring injuries and with the whole world watching. I have reset my expectations for him and wish him nothing but the best.

[tbyers11]

Huh? I didn't predict anything. I said if we lose Wednesday, then a 6 seed is possible.

I guess a 6 seed is possible, but I truly think a 5 is our NCAA seeding floor at the moment. Seeding committees have been explicitly told not to consider the last 10 games in recent years. I think we win Wednesday and end up a 4 or higher

[tbyers11]

Matt Jones seriously has no business playing more than a few spot minutes a game, much less starting. He has not improved his game at all since he got to Duke, honestly he's probably regressed some. But who can take his minutes? Coach K's lineup is what it is now, we gotta ride with him and hope he magically learns how to shoot in the tournament.

Andrew White, Davon Reed, Dwayne Bacon and Justin Jackson would probably agree with you. Did you notice that when Jackson hit his only 3 and then made the pass that led to the Hicks and 1 on consecutive plays that Matt was on the bench.

I agree that he needs to be better on offense than he has the last couple of games. But he can be

[Billy Dat]

This loss is clearly on Coach K. Carolina kills us on the boards while we have multiple seven-footers sitting on the bench. His stubborn determination to play small-ball lost this game tonight. Also, guys on tired legs missing free throws in the final minutes didn't help. And could someone please explain to me how we should expect to win when our defense (or lack thereof) gives up 90 points? We have this mentality that we can just outscore anybody. This team is the most frustrating Duke team to watch that I've seen in the last 20 years. Does anyone else think that it would be to our advantage to lose our first game in the ACC Tournament next week? I'm tired of making excuses. We are at best a 6 seed in the NCAA Tournament, and a 6 seed may be too generous.

I think most people posting think we played our butts off against one of the best teams in the country in their gym in a year when ACC road wins are rare. So, your negativity combined with your recent board introduction automatically makes people suspect trolling. Since you have stuck in the convo, I'll try and answer your original post.

A ton of the preseason excitement was tied to Harry Giles playing like a number one pick. He hasn't been nearly that, and it's not primarily because of Lack of PT. He picked up 3 fouls so quickly, plus Amile played well. K has always been a short rotation guy so you are asking the leopard to change his spots with more than a seven man. Giles is currently #7 and Amile played his butt off. It was a one possession game very late, they made plays we didn't.

Aside from Harry's not playing like a lottery pick and Grayson not being 100%, I think everyone else is where they need to be (again, the 8-12 players on a K team just aren't going to play). While K adapts like crazy, that's not something I think he'll change. You can say it makes him a worse coach, but he IS the Duke program so it's hard to hang on to that "please change" dream as it feels like wasted energy.

[Kedsy]

Matt is not a shutdown defender... he is a good defender.

I think the evidence lately is clearly contrary to your assertion. He has looked like a shutdown defender lately and will probably make the ACC All-Defensive team.


Matt Jones seriously has no business playing more than a few spot minutes a game, much less starting. He has not improved his game at all since he got to Duke, honestly he's probably regressed some.

Your statements are patently ridiculous. He has been an outstanding defender this season (is getting ACC and even national attention as a top defender) and is light-years better than he was as a freshman in all facets of the game.

[InSpades]

I think the evidence lately is clearly contrary to your assertion. He has looked like a shutdown defender lately and will probably make the ACC All-Defensive team.


He might get ACC All-Defensive team (it generally goes to seniors, and K's voice carries a lot of weight) but that doesn't mean he's a shutdown defender. How many shutdown defenders do you think are in the league? He didn't get all-ACC defensive team last year... do you think he's significantly better than he was last year?

I don't have the numbers on me but everyone coming into this game was talking about how he shut down Justin Jackson... Jackson had at least 2 of his 6 baskets while Jones was guarding him. He looked particularly bad on the and-1 in the post.

I'm not saying Jones isn't a good defender, but he's also the worst offensive player who sees the floor. The worst rebounder who sees the floor. He *has* to be a plus defender to earn minutes.

[Turk]

Despite the outcome, I thought it was a hard fought game, and Duke played pretty well. That was a Elite 8 and maybe even a Final-Four caliber game.

unc defended the three-pointer well; Devils got just a few open looks, but most 3s were pretty well contested. 7-19 and 36.8% is a little below the season average, but not by much. Coach K countered by having the guys attack the basket for layups and fouls. And if you told me that Duke was only outrebounded 35-31, and shot 28-35 from the line, I would have guessed the game would be a Duke win.

Berry was big - he carried them in the first half, and came up with key buckets down the stretch - the jumper from the elbow with Grayson in his face, and then the drive when Amile got switched on him out on the arc. When Berry drove, there was no help - looked like Tatum was going for the block but got there late. That's probably my biggest quibble with the game - just a few plays where Duke's defense broke down. The game was close enough that you could point to a half-dozen different things that could have tipped the outcome in the other direction.

Looking to the ACCT, I feel pretty confident about Duke taking the winner of NCSU / Clemson in Brooklyn (presumably Clemson). Grayson and Amile looked like they were moving better against the Holes and they'll get a few more days of recovery. There have been a lot of positives these past few games. Next play.

[BandAlum83]

Wow. Did I see the same game that a bunch of other posters out here saw? Or is it just that a bunch of < 1 month members are being very vocal for some reason?

So I watched this game at a Duke watch party. That is always a very different experience. It is noisy. Often times plays are missed as a waitress comes to the table. One can't hear the announcers so fouls might be missed, etc.

I'm the type of person who watches a game very intently. Without having live stats open, I can usually tell you within 2 points how many each (Duke) player has. I will know the top rebounder, have general count of steals and blocks. I watch and keep count that intently.

I also try to watch what's happening with movement on offense and defense. I try to see what's happening on-ball and off-ball. I watch with a DVR, so I will often be behind live broadcast because I replay and go back from time to time.

All that being said, it was very different to watch at a saloon, but here's the game I saw:

A very competitive game played, at times, at a frenetic pace. Very good shooting in the first half especially, and alternating periods of good defense on both sides.

I saw Carolina grab what seemed to be a ton of offensive rebounds, especially in the second half, giving them a lot of second chance points. About those rebounds, though, without seeing the final count, I think it would be overstated for Carolina and actually Duke did great on the boards. Why? Because one trip down the floor with 4 offensive rebounds has less value (to me) than 4 trips with one offensive rebound each time. I think UNC "bunched" many of their offensive rebounds in single possesions.

I saw a very active and effective grayson Allen with spring and drive and play with reckless abandon. He looked healthy.

I saw Matt lock down Justin Jackso: what he was tasked to do.

I saw FJ again drive effectively and finish. I saw him make a few bad misses and make some big buckets.

I saw a team FT performance that kept us in the game and reverted to the mean at the end. I don't know the final #, but I bet we were within 1 or 2 makes/misses of our season average.

I saw JT make some jump shots when he should have driven and some drives that he tried to finish with finese instead of Powe, but generally a good game.


I saw a mobile Amile who played with agility and intensity. More than anyone, he demonstrated a desire to win and true leadership on the floor. He was willing himself rebounds and loose balls.

I saw a Luke that played like the ACC player of the year


I saw a Harry that gave significant quality minutes. And a player who definitely doesn't get the benefit of the doubt when the ref blows the whistle.

I saw a TEAM that played very well against an excellent team on their home court.

I see a team the NO ONE in the ACC or NCAA tournaments will want to see in their bracket.

I'm not guaranteeing wins, but we are ready. We can beat any team on a neutral floor.

[BandAlum83]

And on a separate note, I have never given as many flames to posts than I have in the last 2 days. All of them seemingly to poster who joined within the past few weeks.

I don't know if they are trolls, or just don't understand the posting guidelines. Maybe they thinks it's like the comment section on ESPN sports.

It's not.

Let me just say, I look for constructive posts. Not that we can't criticize or question, but be constructive for goodness sake!

Instead of saying "Joe sucks and should never see the court," maybe try "I think Pete would give us better minutes than Joe because XYZ."

Is that so hard? Maybe we wouldn't think you're trolling then.

As a business mentor once said to me when I was in my 20's, "Why poke a guy in the eye when you don't have to? You can get your point across without going down that path."

[Wander]

To me this may actually sting more than the loss itself. Maybe because it has bigger picture implications. Harry has yet to even demonstrate that he can be an effective ACC level player, which is weird considering he is still on 1st round draft boards. As much as Jabari had "IT", Harry hasn't found any of "IT" yet. And at this point, that isn't going to happen in a Duke uniform. The knee injuries took all of that away. Pairing some sort of effective big with Amile on the roster would have been huge for this season.

Agree with all this. The loss itself last night isn't bothersome at all - a close, generally well-played game on the road to a really good team. But without Giles or Bolden being ready to contribute effectively, I would not consider us in the top 10 teams most likely to win the national championship.

[Devilwin]

Just a dose of reality here. If Harry was at UNC wouldn't the Duke fans have done the same? Just asking...

That's a question we will never get an answer to. Maybe, maybe not. But, assuming they did, it would be no more classy than them doing it.
I believe we can make a good run in both tournaments. The offense is fine (except for poor Matt, who suddenly cannot throw a beebee in the ocean).
Our problem is interior defense.
And I hate to see us "eating our own". Like catching a shark at sea, cutting it open, and throwing it back to watch it ripped apart by its comrades.
Sure the one post I refer to was over the top, but it was sniffed out by a fine moderator, and chastisement was given. There's no reason for everyone else to add their two cents. We lost to a fine team on their court, and were in it for most of the game, only to see it slip away in the final minutes. There's room for optimism, so let's get ready, one game at a time..( btw, I wannna see State again.)

[devilnfla]

Its interesting that had the refs not called a foul on unc...they wouldnt have "reviewed" the play. Strange use of replay.

I thought it was BS too. The player was holding his nose, and if Grayson even made contact, it was not across Robinsons nose.

[AtlDuke72]

This loss is clearly on Coach K. Carolina kills us on the boards while we have multiple seven-footers sitting on the bench. His stubborn determination to play small-ball lost this game tonight. Also, guys on tired legs missing free throws in the final minutes didn't help. And could someone please explain to me how we should expect to win when our defense (or lack thereof) gives up 90 points? We have this mentality that we can just outscore anybody. This team is the most frustrating Duke team to watch that I've seen in the last 20 years. Does anyone else think that it would be to our advantage to lose our first game in the ACC Tournament next week? I'm tired of making excuses. We are at best a 6 seed in the NCAA Tournament, and a 6 seed may be too generous.

Everybody is entitled to their opinion even when they are wrong. If Giles, Bolden and Jeter each played 10 or 15 minutes the Heels would have won by 20.

[Saratoga2]

Matt Jones seriously has no business playing more than a few spot minutes a game, much less starting. He has not improved his game at all since he got to Duke, honestly he's probably regressed some. But who can take his minutes? Coach K's lineup is what it is now, we gotta ride with him and hope he magically learns how to shoot in the tournament.

Over the years, Matt has made many contributions to the team and its success. He is very experienced and is a high quality defender. What he isn't is a great offensive player. He isn't particularly quick, isn't explosive at the rim so doesn't make a lot of attempts in close. His shot form from deep is unusual and while at times he hits a good percentage, recently he has not. It is hard for a player with that much experience to change his shooting form at this late date, and his confidence must be shaken so I wouldn't expect him to morph into a high efficiency shooter through the end of year. He would have needed to change his form during the off season if he thought to improve. Since he might have tried but didn't succeed to change his form, now will just have to be who he is.

[superdave]

Matt Jones seriously has no business playing more than a few spot minutes a game, much less starting. He has not improved his game at all since he got to Duke, honestly he's probably regressed some. But who can take his minutes? Coach K's lineup is what it is now, we gotta ride with him and hope he magically learns how to shoot in the tournament.

I dont have the inclination to get into a lot of detail, but Jones has shut down the best scorer on the other team several times this season. Did you see that stat from last Unc game where Jones held Jackson to 1-6 FG's? Here's Kaze post:

How about why he was 1/6 from the floor when Matt Jones was the primary or help defender on him.

btw . . . that means he scored 18 points when guarded by players not named Matt Jones.

Jones is very important to this team, because not everyone on the team is a really good defender. He and Amile shore that up.

I do think he has lost confidence in his jumper though. He should keep shooting. It's important to take the open looks. It just takes a couple of makes to get back on track.

[Indoor66]

Ok, who are the 12 teams you think are better than us?

Don't feed the troll. The AFL died about 30 years ago.

[arnie]

I dont have the inclination to get into a lot of detail, but Jones has shut down the best scorer on the other team several times this season. Did you see that stat from last Unc game where Jones held Jackson to 1-6 FG's? Here's Kaze post:

How about why he was 1/6 from the floor when Matt Jones was the primary or help defender on him.

btw . . . that means he scored 18 points when guarded by players not named Matt Jones.

Jones is very important to this team, because not everyone on the team is a really good defender. He and Amile shore that up.

I do think he has lost confidence in his jumper though. He should keep shooting. It's important to take the open looks. It just takes a couple of makes to get back on track.

Generally agree with this post - feel more comfortable when Matt is on the floor. But 0 point and 0 rebounds puts a lot of pressure on the other guards to produce and allows opposing team to slough off. I think for Duke to make a run, he has to hit a few shots each game.

[dukelifer]

I didn't say negligible... but it's not as much as many of you seem to think.

If you say that Matt is a significantly better defensive player than say... Luke... don't you think the other team knows that as well?

If Duke will 100% of the time switch Luke and Matt on defense... why would you ever challenge Matt?

Matt is not a shutdown defender... he is a good defender.

The question of whether having another offensive threat on the floor would be worthwhile is valid... though I think the current debate is kind of moot. Duke has basically 6 guys that K trusts to play. They are all going to get significant time.

What offensive threat is K burying on the bench? Jones played 26 min. Hobbled Allen played 23. Who on the bench is going to be on the floor if not Matt?

[OldPhiKap]

Is it wrong of me to think that most posters who only show up after losses, critical of "our" play, are often trolls?

And by feeding them, am I just taking the bait?

Just curious.

[freshmanjs]

The last time the Duke program has lost ten games or more during back-to-back seasons was 1995 and 1996. The fact that this season has a strong possibility of repeating that mark is nothing short of shocking to me.

...and, Duke has only lost 10+ games in a season 4 times since 1985! This will probably be the 2nd year in a row as you point out.

[WVDUKEFAN]

I'm proud of our team. Amile is involved again on the inside on both ends. We got to the line a lot, but should have gotten there more. I thought the reason we were out rebounded on the offensive end was because they were over our backs. Harry G really helped the efforts on the boards, but picked up 3 quick fouls in 26 seconds. We made some poor shot choices too. As much as I think JT has improved, I want Grayson or Luke take shots late in the game from beyond the arc.

I like our chances against anyone we play. This team has as good of a chance as any to win it all.

[freshmanjs]

This team has as good of a chance as any to win it all.

This is just not true. A Kansas team as a #1 seed (with a much easier path) has a greater chance to win it all than Duke (just as one example). This would be the case even if Duke were somewhat better than Kansas right now.

[Troublemaker]

Matt is not a shutdown defender... he is a good defender.

Matt is a shutdown wing defender. I say this because he shuts down wings. Regularly. I don't know what to tell you. The stats are there. The video is there. The testimony is there.

However, as I wrote previously in another thread, it's not an outrageous suggestion at all to want Frank to play more than Matt. I was certainly more comfortable with Frank on the floor in last night's game. With UNC's intense ball pressure, we needed our guards to break it down and score or draw fouls near the basket. That's Frank's game. And I was happy to see that he received more minutes than Matt.

Now, the conditions might not always favor Frank. Since Duke fans are obviously going to be debating Matt's playing time until we die, we need a Unified Theory on when he should receive greater minutes and when he should receive fewer minutes. I'll provide it now. How many minutes Matt receives depends on 4 factors:

(1) Are there healthy options that are playing well? We need to first have 4 healthy perimeter players for it not to be moot. The Grayson against FSU isn't really an option. The Grayson against UNC probably is.

(2) Does the opponent have a wing scorer they rely heavily upon? Matt is at his best shutting downs 2s, 3, and small 4s (like Blossomgame). His defensive value is diminished if the opposing team's offensive strength is in their PG or C.

(3) Is Matt making shots and/or playing offensively confident in that game? Self-explanatory.

(4) Is the opponent applying heavy ball pressure defensively and/or playing passing lanes? Matt is actually a very smart offensive player when the opponent allows us to run our sets, which is why he's spent time at PG over the past couple of seasons. He makes accurate passes with proper timing and generally moves the ball really well into the hands of our scorers. However, sometimes the opponent is in your face with ball pressure and jumping passing lanes, and you kind of just need to be able to break your man down off the dribble for a basket finish, drop-off, or foul call.

A lot of times, the decision won't be cut-and-dry. We're not going to always be 4-0 or 0-4 on the factors.

[WVDUKEFAN]

This is just not true. A Kansas team as a #1 seed (with a much easier path) has a greater chance to win it all than Duke (just as one example). This would be the case even if Duke were somewhat better than Kansas right now.

OK. I agree that statistically, No. 1 seeds have an easier path and a better chance to advance. That is a given. My point is that overall, teams are close this year, and the ACC has been especially tough. We are a couple baskets away from a couple more wins. Mind you, those losses came with a team without Coach K, an injured Amile and Grayson Allen. Seeding will be beneficial in the first couple rounds, but I think things even out the deeper we go. I like our chances.

[UNCfan]

UNC had the same issue with Kenny Williams earlier this season. Matt Jones is a more proven player, so I am not trying to compare their skills, but they are both good defenders that sometimes disappear on the offensive end. Sometimes you need a player that doesn't require shots to play hard on both ends, especially when you have players like GA, JT, and LK. But, players like Jones need to keep the defense honest by making the open shot, when he gets it. I heard the stat tonight that he is something like 2 of his last 15? The season is far from over, so he will have a chance to redeem himself. One thing you never question is his effort. Both UNC and Duke are better when their defensive stoppers do more than defend.

[gotoguy]

If we get a 6 seed, then we would face a 3 seed in the second round. That thought is downright scary.

Yes, for that unfortunate 3 seed

[WVDUKEFAN]

I recorded the game, and I'm going to watch it again. I think some of the 3s Berry hit were because we got lost on D, but others were just insane. You have to get a hand in his face, but you don't want to over extend and get beat off the dribble.

[freshmanjs]

I recorded the game, and I'm going to watch it again. I think some of the 3s Berry hit were because we got lost on D, but others were just insane. You have to get a hand in his face, but you don't want to over extend and get beat off the dribble.

In the first half, Berry was very hot, but their other guys were very cold. Their overall percentage wasn't that great or unusual. It's easy for us to say If Berry only hit 2 or 3 out of those 5, then things would be different. But, it's not really fair to say that without also saying the other guys should hit a couple more.

[rsvman]

I recorded the game, and I'm going to watch it again. I think some of the 3s Berry hit were because we got lost on D, but others were just insane. You have to get a hand in his face, but you don't want to over extend and get beat off the dribble.

He shoots from almost below his face. It seems like it would be really easy to block him. But he finds his openings and his shot is surprisingly quick given its mechanics.

That said, he was unconscious last night, especially in the first half. He's not likely to go five for five in a half anytime soon. With Justin Jackson going oh-fer in the first half, I think it pretty well evened out.

[CDu]

It would be depressing to think the season went as poorly as it could possibly have gone. I don't think that's what happened. (So, I do not think 11-7 was the worst case scenario at all)

As someone who predicted 8-10 in the "predict Duke's record" contest, you probably should steer clear of mocking anyone. Especially someone who did, in fact, predict 11-7.

I would say that a helluva lot went wrong for us to end up at 11-7. Including more injuries.

[lotusland]

Geez, that's harsh. I thought he was in a much more take charge mode tonight. That's not a bad thing.

But Luke still astounds each and every game.

Yep plus the steal and outlet pass from the floor was vintage Grayson. Awesome!

[PackMan97]

Sometimes cheaters do win. Very sad for those that play by the rules.

[BandAlum83]

OK. I agree that statistically, No. 1 seeds have an easier path and a better chance to advance. That is a given. My point is that overall, teams are close this year, and the ACC has been especially tough. We are a couple baskets away from a couple more wins. Mind you, those losses came with a team without Coach K, an injured Amile and Grayson Allen. Seeding will be beneficial in the first couple rounds, but I think things even out the deeper we go. I like our chances.

I just heard a breakdown on a podcast I listen to.

From 2000 - 2008, the final 4 averaged 1.75 #1 seeds.
From 2009 - 2016, the final 4 averaged 1.25 #1 seeds.

Just a data point. Make of it what you will.

Another way to look at it: in any given regional, the 15 in the field are HUGE favorites to make it to the final 4 over the #1 seed.

[lotusland]

My concern about depth is in the ACC. Not built to win 4 straight. -Duke has a shot in the big dance

Moreso the fact that Amile and Grayson aren't practicing so it follows that big minutes over 4 days may not be wise or realistic. Kind a double edged sword. You like to save those guys for the semis or final but you have to get there. Also it might help with seeding to win a couple of games. I'd love to hang an ACC banner after a long drought but maybe this is not the year to go all out on it. I'm on board playing Giles, Bolden and/or other bigs in the 1st or seconds rounds to rest Amile and Grayson. If we make it to the semis then all hands on deck.

[NashvilleDevil]

Just a dose of reality here. If Harry was at UNC wouldn't the Duke fans have done the same? Just asking...

Perhaps in his junior year like top 10 rated high schooler Justin Jackson.

[NashvilleDevil]

How many of the PAC 12 teams do you expect in the final 8? How many in the FF?

I don't think any of them make the elite 8. Pac12 is overrated.

[freshmanjs]

As someone who predicted 8-10 in the "predict Duke's record" contest, you probably should steer clear of mocking anyone. Especially someone who did, in fact, predict 11-7.

I would say that a helluva lot went wrong for us to end up at 11-7. Including more injuries.

i predicted 10-8. misclick on the poll, but my post is there with 10-8 and exactly which games i though we'd win. i do regret the mis-click because it opens up for you to mock me.

7224

[BD80]

I feel like he needs to use the backboard more. Frank is very good at that and I would love to see Jayson use it more often ...

Like Luke on 3 pointers?


I would be satisfied if we just reached the Sweet 16.


... I believe in open and honest discussions, both positive and negative.

I'll bet you wouldn't be "satisfied" with a 3rd round loss, even to a 1 or 2 seed. We'd get more snark blaming Coach K. Be honest.


I actually think the refs got that one right. Grayson can't lead with the elbow above the defender's shoulder like that. Had there not been a foul and a whistle, that would've been a flagrant 2. Since play was stopped, a dead ball technical was the correct call

I don't think he lead with his elbow up, the elbow came up to shed the hand-check that was called a foul.

[Neals384]

The box score provided by goduke.com does not have play-by-play with substitutions; there will not be a +/- for the game until that is available.

I'm not sure, but I think this is generally the responsibility of the home team (the format sometimes differs, but only for away games).

If anyone has a contact at Duke (or, UNC) who can facilitate this being corrected, please help!

[weezie]

I wish the fans would not have chanted against the kid. He is having a tough year and it was in poor taste.

I appreciate what you are saying uncfan. Was surprised to see the back and forth about this on "Ick car-hole-ina" with some posters being astoundingly negative about the idiot chanting and, most reassuringly, about the same number sputtering through their few remaining teeth saying it was all deserved.

I thought Harry's face reflected some humiliation. Those unwashed, mouth-breathing undergrads must be very pleased with themselves today.

[Devilwin]

Go to Bleacher Report and read Kerry Miller's piece on DUKE'S Kryptonite. Makes sense..But then, odds are there to be defied.

[IFUSTABMEDOINOTBLEEDBLUE]

It's been very frustrating seeing all this talent this year and still having little in the way of developed big men to help in the paint. Injuries aside which are quite pertinent there just has not been any big to count on but Jefferson. It does not bode for a long run in the tournament. I would really like to see Tatum play more inside out rather than the other way around but he will be top 5 in the draft so he has that. It gets old watching us struggle again and again with paintwork and handling penetrating guards...makes you really appreciate senior bigs like Zoubek and Plumlee Mach III when they stay the full 4 and really can have time to improve and really contribute. But tournament time is here and nothing like it. GO DUKE!

[duketaylor]

Well-played game, Duke fought hard, lost to about an even team. Doesn't sting as much this morning as I think it had little affect on NCAA seeding. Just hope we get sent to East or South bracket, even if as a 5 seed. Win a couple ACC games and we should stay toward the right coast.

[UNCfan]

I appreciate what you are saying uncfan. Was surprised to see the back and forth about this on "Ick car-hole-ina" with some posters being astoundingly negative about the idiot chanting and, most reassuringly, about the same number sputtering through their few remaining teeth saying it was all deserved.

I thought Harry's face reflected some humiliation. Those unwashed, mouth-breathing undergrads must be very pleased with themselves today.

Roy evidently screamed at the student section to stop doing it. He was asked about it at the end of his press conference. He didnt think it was nice and he didn't think it was smart to piss the other team off.

[tbyers11]

I actually think the refs got that one right. Grayson can't lead with the elbow above the defender's shoulder like that. Had there not been a foul and a whistle, that would've been a flagrant 2. Since play was stopped, a dew ball technical was the correct call



I don't think he lead with his elbow up, the elbow came up to shed the hand-check that was called a foul.

Totally agree with this. Grayson put his arm up and forward to try and get past the defender. IMO, it was a legit basketball move and the only reason it got so high was because he raised it to avoid (or it was bumped up) by Brandon Robinson's arm reaching in.

[Troublemaker]

The box score provided by goduke.com does not have play-by-play with substitutions; there will not be a +/- for the game until that is available.

I'm not sure, but I think this is generally the responsibility of the home team (the format sometimes differs, but only for away games).

If anyone has a contact at Duke (or, UNC) who can facilitate this being corrected, please help!

Try this link (http://www.goheels.com//ViewContent.dbml?SPSID=668156&SPID=12965&DB_LANG=C&SITE=UNC&DB_OEM_ID=3350&CONTENT_ID=2039082). Let me know if that suffices.

[azzefkram]

I'd have a hard time getting worked up about this game if it wasn't UNC. It was a game of runs and whomever had the last run was going to win the game. Unfortunately those epic dirtbags from down the road had the last run. It sucks but it happens.

I thought Luke and Frank had really good games. Everyone else... not so much. Grayson on the offensive end was as close as he's been to his old self in a while. On the defensive end, he was obviously hampered by injury and a step slow. Amile was crafty with the ball but he needs to grab more boards. Six boards (same as our point guard Frank) in 36 minutes is not enough. I thought Harry's stints in the first half were OK. I'd have a hard time imagining how his second half stint could go any worse. It would be a tad hypocritical to get on the Heels for chanting "over-rated" since I chanted a few choice phrases back in the day but I really felt bad for Harry. Jayson regressed a bit last night. He forced more than a few shots and was lackadaisical on the glass. If we choose not to match up with their bigs, Jayson needs to play up to his ability. Unfortunately last night he didn't. Matt, Matt, Matt. If you are going to be a 3 and D guy, we need the 3 part. It was 4 on 5 for much of the time that Matt was in there. For the past month or so, Matt looked reluctant to shoot much of the time. I hope he can see a few go in during the ACCT to regain his confidence. I think Matt is a great defender at the 3. The Jacksons, Bacons and Blossengames of the game are right in his wheelhouse. I think Matt's D drops significantly when he's asked to cover the other positions. Doesn't switching minimize one of Matt's strengths? I don't know if Coach K has a dog but if he does I suspect that Marques kicked it. If there ever was a team that Marques could match up with, UNC would be it.

We hung with a top 10 team on their home court with 5 of our 7 man rotation having sub-par games. Aside from the UNC aspect, I can't be too unhappy with that.

I suspect we will be anywhere from a 6 to 3 seed in the NCAAT. Hopefully we make some noise in the ACCT to get closer to that 3 seed. I think we can play and beat anyone. Let's go on a 10 game win streak.

[BoiseDevil]

He simply cannot score...

Frank is just fine defensively and can score.

I think your eye test is disjointed with your handle.

If you have the time, I believe you'd find Matt is one of the elite defenders in the ACC, statistically. I concede he doesn't have the lateral quickness to contain quick point guards, But I haven't seen Frank consistently do that either. Matt has a track record of shutting down elite wings (Decker, Bacon, Jackson).

If Matt can shoot threes at 30% going forward we'll be fine. His shooting percentage lately is well off his historical numbers; it should progress toward d the mean moving forward.

I'm not arguing your point that Frank deserves more minutes, I just suggest your frustration with Matt is exaggerated due to his recent shooting woes.

[Troublemaker]

I suspect we will be anywhere from a 6 to 3 seed in the NCAAT. Hopefully we make some noise in the ACCT to get closer to that 3 seed. I think we can play and beat anyone. Let's go on a 10 game win streak.

Agreed. This gets me thinking, though. Has any team ever played more than 40 games in a season? Could Duke break a record for games played if we go 33-8?

[azzefkram]

Totally agree with this. Grayson put his arm up and forward to try and get past the defender. IMO, it was a legit basketball move and the only reason it got so high was because he raised it to avoid (or it was bumped up) by Brandon Robinson's arm reaching in.

That's what I saw as well. Unfortunately Grayson is not going to get the benefit of the doubt.

[azzefkram]

Agreed. This gets me thinking, though. Has any team ever played more than 40 games in a season? Could Duke break a record for games played if we go 33-8?

All the more reason to do it.

[Furniture]

Over the years, Matt has made many contributions to the team and its success. He is very experienced and is a high quality defender. What he isn't is a great offensive player. He isn't particularly quick, isn't explosive at the rim so doesn't make a lot of attempts in close. His shot form from deep is unusual and while at times he hits a good percentage, recently he has not. It is hard for a player with that much experience to change his shooting form at this late date, and his confidence must be shaken so I wouldn't expect him to morph into a high efficiency shooter through the end of year. He would have needed to change his form during the off season if he thought to improve. Since he might have tried but didn't succeed to change his form, now will just have to be who he is.

There has been a lot of back and forth about Matt. I generally don't comment because I really like him. However I am starting to think this. If Grayson's health improves over the next few games he will get more minutes again and consequently it will be Matt to see less minutes not Frank. I am not thinking anything drastic but maybe his minutes drop from in the 30's to the 20's?

[tbyers11]

Agreed. This gets me thinking, though. Has any team ever played more than 40 games in a season? Could Duke break a record for games played if we go 33-8?

The Kemba Walker UConn team that won it all in 2011 went 32-9

[dukebluesincebirth]

Sure, during games in which they get no minutes it is easy to say players contribute "absolutely nothing," but to generalize it as you did is way out of line.

Whom do you think the rotation players practice against? Do you really believe their presence on the bench contributes "absolute" nothing to the game?

Do you believe the crazies contribute absolutly nothing to a game?

Would you prefer to watch a game on TV played in an empty gym with players brought in from the locker room only if they will be coming into the gamen and the bench warmers wtching from their dorm rooms?

Absolute zero = -212 kelvin, I believe. I'm not sure what absolute zero contribution equals and not sure if it exists in nature.

I was talking about contributing anything to the game that we're trying to win, in terms of basketball play. I'm really not sure how much cheering on the bench contributes to winning. I'd have to ask an actual player, and it seems it would depend on the personalities of those on the bench. As far as practice... practice? You talkin bout practice?? Again, not sure how much those bigs have been contributing in practice. I'm not there. Ive also heard very little about the status of these bigs, yet they're on the team and the team needs effective bigs. As far as watching empty gyms and absolute kelvin, I have absolutely zero clue what you're talking about, but it seems as if you may have reached your boiling point.

[Neals384]

Here's a gif from 7:30 of the first half. Giles switches to cover Seventh Woods, but after Meeks releases the pick, Jackson is right there to cover Woods again. Giles seems slow to recognize and slow to get back to the paint, where Meeks is lurking.

Now Woods drives left, and Jackson is picked, Kennard covers Woods, who gets off a closely guarded shot that doesn't go in. So, how does Meeks get free for the tip in? Nobody blocked him out! Jefferson tried for an impossible block on Woods, and Giles simply watched the ball go up and lost the race to the rim with Meeks. Cue complaints about basket interference, but this kind of put back is completely preventable.

Not posting this to be critical of Jefferson and Giles - they do block out - sometimes. And Jefferson had a terrific game overall.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/HilariousFearfulGalah-size_restricted.gif

[Troublemaker]

Nice GIF'ing Neals. We now have 3 GIFers, and I love it.

BTW, did that play by play I linked work for you?

[53n206]

Two observations:
1. It ain't over till it's over
2.. Size matters

[Bob Green]

There has been a fair amount of sniping at new posters, including by myself :o so I would like to request everyone, again including myself, back off the rhetoric a notch or two by sticking to analyzing the game. The sniping detracts from the overall great conversation taking place.

Thanks!

[rtnorthrup]

Here's a gif from 7:30 of the first half. Giles switches to cover Seventh Woods, but after Meeks releases the pick, Jackson is right there to cover Woods again. Giles seems slow to recognize and slow to get back to the paint, where Meeks is lurking.

Now Woods drives left, and Jackson is picked, Kennard covers Woods, who gets off a closely guarded shot that doesn't go in. So, how does Meeks get free for the tip in? Nobody blocked him out! Jefferson tried for an impossible block on Woods, and Giles simply watched the ball go up and lost the race to the rim with Meeks. Cue complaints about basket interference, but this kind of put back is completely preventable.

Not posting this to be critical of Jefferson and Giles - they do block out - sometimes. And Jefferson had a terrific game overall.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/HilariousFearfulGalah-size_restricted.gif

Great post, this has been a pet peeve of mine for several years. Post players who make attempts for a very low probability blocked shot and are therefore in poor rebounding position.

[Turk]

Great post, this has been a pet peeve of mine for several years. Post players who make attempts for a very low probability blocked shot and are therefore in poor rebounding position.

And if they do block the shot, they either foul on the play (admittedly the chance of fouling is lower for the help guy than it is for the on-ball defender), or send the ball out of bounds, allowing the offense to set up an OOB play. But it is fun for the fans to go WOOOOO and also fun for the player to scowl and make faces like he did something important.

[rtnorthrup]

I am still struggling with our man-to-man principles this season. I know that Coach K and his staff put strong emphasis on defending the 3-pt line, and by extension at times we are susceptible to guards who can penetrate and get into the lane. I know for instance that we are no longer a heavy help team and that staying home on shooters is the new commandment. That said, I don't understand our switching. It seems clear that when Jefferson is in the game, we switch ALL screens 1 through 5. When Giles or Bolden are in the game and are involved in a high pick and roll, they give a hard hedge and then recover to their player.

I thought the two key plays last night were where Frank Jackson got switched onto Josh Jackson. The first play we gave up a three and on the second play we got caught on a big-to-big screen and Frank Jackson got beat on the roll. My issue is that, if my memory serves, Frank Jackson starts off guarding Joel Berry. He is involved in an off the ball switch where he ends up on Josh Jackson. I'm not sure I understand the off ball switching. I don't think Matt was in the game at the time, but it strikes me that Frank Jackson guarding Josh Jackson is not ideal for Duke.

I first noticed this issue against Wake Forest, and against Syracuse on several plays (although its hard to blame the Def when teams are banking in prayer shots), but I do wonder if we should try to fight through off ball screens a little harder instead of switching everything.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Been traveling all week, here's a few quick thoughts for now...

Back to back ACC regular season Champions is a confirmation of Roy Williams as an excellent coach and also on his system of developing, and playing, disciplined depth throughout the roster.

On Duke side of the game...

I was impressed with how Amile attacked the rim in the post with some quality offensive moves. He didn't have that early in his career and his hard work and focus is paying off as a senior.

Kennard continues to impress with his overall feel for the game and his ability to find a way to score.

Matt Jones is a quality defender and earns his time on the court. Guys like him make the team better, wether they score or not.

Frank Jackson is going to be a very good point guard as the game slows down for him as a sophomore. I like his game.

I didn't care for the overrated chant on Giles either, but it likely would have happened at Cameron too if the role was reversed. I still don't understand why coach K uses his bench like he does, seeing the glaring need for more inside play and the talent he has sitting there.

Tatum had a tough game, it happens, still Duke's most talented and dangerous player.

I'm sorry, but I'm over Grayson Allen. I've tried to give him the benefit of the doubt all season and just encouraged him to play ball...but he hasn't changed anything. The two first half head snaps begging for calls, along with the cheap elbow, and the flop on the wrist touch 3pt foul were the straws that broke the camels back for me. And I'm disappointed in coach K for continuing to accept that outlook on the game, if not condoning it.

On the UNC side...

I thought Meeks played lackluster on senior night, and that surprised me. The kid obviously has a strong work ethic to get in the shape he has, but his inability to bring intensity to a big game like that is concerning...again.

Pinson is impacting games with his vision and solid defense, and Britt is bringing some defensive intensity and good ball movement/handling, but UNC will have to find some points from the 2g spot to go deep this year. 0 points from there this game.

Luke Maye is a player. I like guys that overachieve their physical skills.

Tony Bradley came in and played like a future star on a big stage, you've gotta like that in a freshman big man going into post season.

Berry is a gamer. When he gets off to a good start, he smells blood. Got to get him play that way when he misses that first one.

Jackson is the ACC POY in my book. Kennard is right there too, and I won't argue if he is selected, but Jackson has carried the best team in the conference with clutch plays all season...and not only with scoring. He's played quality defense and made his teammates better with his willingness to share the ball.

Finally, let me say that the ACC is not the best conference in basketball.

Why?

Because the league has the worst officials in the college game and they are a huge part of the league. I hated how this game was called, both ways.

I don't like to comment on officials because no matter what you say, it comes across as an excuse when you lose. We didn't lose, so I feel like I can say it this time. They sucked, and overall, have all season.
There was no flow to the game because of how they called it. It was a shame we don't get to see two good teams really get after it. There was bumping and grabbing from both sides that weren't called, inhibiting movement, then touch fouls called, both ways, all around the basket. The players had to be frustrated.

Every team might have only two games left now. Time to dig in.

[TruBlu]

Roy evidently screamed at the student section to stop doing it. He was asked about it at the end of his press conference. He didnt think it was nice and he didn't think it was smart to piss the other team off.

If this is true, and I have no reason to doubt you, good for Roy. (And I don't/won't say that often.)

P.s. Thanks for being a reasonable visiting opponent's fan . . . and not a well disguised troll.

[dukelifer]

Been traveling all week, here's a few quick thoughts for now...

Back to back ACC regular season Champions is a confirmation of Roy Williams as an excellent coach and also on his system of developing, and playing, disciplined depth throughout the roster.

On Duke side of the game...

I was impressed with how Amile attacked the rim in the post with some quality offensive moves. He didn't have that early in his career and his hard work and focus is paying off as a senior.

Kennard continues to impress with his overall feel for the game and his ability to find a way to score.

Matt Jones is a quality defender and earns his time on the court. Guys like him make the team better, wether they score or not.

Frank Jackson is going to be a very good point guard as the game slows down for him as a sophomore. I like his game.

I didn't care for the overrated chant on Giles either, but it likely would have happened at Cameron too if the role was reversed. I still don't understand why coach K uses his bench like he does, seeing the glaring need for more inside play and the talent he has sitting there.

Tatum had a tough game, it happens, still Duke's most talented and dangerous player.

I'm sorry, but I'm over Grayson Allen. I've tried to give him the benefit of the doubt all season and just encouraged him to play ball...but he hasn't changed anything. The two first half head snaps begging for calls, along with the cheap elbow, and the flop on the wrist touch 3pt foul were the straws that broke the camels back for me. And I'm disappointed in coach K for continuing to accept that outlook on the game, if not condoning it.

On the UNC side...

I thought Meeks played lackluster on senior night, and that surprised me. The kid obviously has a strong work ethic to get in the shape he has, but his inability to bring intensity to a big game like that is concerning...again.

Pinson is impacting games with his vision and solid defense, and Britt is bringing some defensive intensity and good ball movement/handling, but UNC will have to find some points from the 2g spot to go deep this year. 0 points from there this game.

Luke Maye is a player. I like guys that overachieve their physical skills.

Tony Bradley came in and played like a future star on a big stage, you've gotta like that in a freshman big man going into post season.

Berry is a gamer. When he gets off to a good start, he smells blood. Got to get him play that way when he misses that first one.

Jackson is the ACC POY in my book. Kennard is right there too, and I won't argue if he is selected, but Jackson has carried the best team in the conference with clutch plays all season...and not only with scoring. He's played quality defense and made his teammates better with his willingness to share the ball.

Finally, let me say that the ACC is not the best conference in basketball.

Why?

Because the league has the worst officials in the college game and they are a huge part of the league. I hated how this game was called, both ways.

I don't like to comment on officials because no matter what you say, it comes across as an excuse when you lose. We didn't lose, so I feel like I can say it this time. They sucked, and overall, have all season.
There was no flow to the game because of how they called it. It was a shame we don't get to see two good teams really get after it. There was bumping and grabbing from both sides that weren't called, inhibiting movement, then touch fouls called, both ways, all around the basket. The players had to be frustrated.

Every team might have only two games left now. Time to dig in.

As much as many here would like to make fun of Luke Maye- the kid has a soft touch and a good basketball IQ. He is physically limited but can certainly play in this league and will be a pain for the next two years. UNC is a very good team- but they will need Berry to be like his was against Duke to win it all. Jackson is a very good player but may be wearing down. He needs to be excellent as well. UNC could win it all - they are good enough but as we saw against UVa- they are not the same team away from Chapel Hill.

[dukelifer]

There has been a lot of back and forth about Matt. I generally don't comment because I really like him. However I am starting to think this. If Grayson's health improves over the next few games he will get more minutes again and consequently it will be Matt to see less minutes not Frank. I am not thinking anything drastic but maybe his minutes drop from in the 30's to the 20's?
He was down in the 20's yesterday. Frank is coming on and clearly can be a dominant player. I expect to see Matt's coming in for fewer minutes moving forward as Grayson heals. For Duke to make a run Tatum needs to be excellent. He has only been okay of late. He can dominate smaller, less athletic opponents- but has struggled to finish against more athletic players. The competition only gets harder. This is a youth issue but in a one and done tourney- there are no second chances. Winning it all takes a good deal of luck- luck in match-ups and in making keys shots at critical moments. No excuse for missing throws. That has to be better. Duke is good enough- but no ending would be a great surprise.

[freshmanjs]

No excuse for missing throws. That has to be better.

Duke shot 80% from the FT line last night in 35 attempts.

[Bob Green]

Tatum had a tough game, it happens, still Duke's most talented and dangerous player.

One of the true tragedies of the one and done era is robbing fans of the pleasure to watch players develop over four seasons. Jayson Tatum has the potential to be one of the all time great players in the history of Duke basketball, but by this time next year he will be largely forgotten.




I'm sorry, but I'm over Grayson Allen. I've tried to give him the benefit of the doubt all season and just encouraged him to play ball...but he hasn't changed anything. The two first half head snaps begging for calls, along with the cheap elbow, and the flop on the wrist touch 3pt foul were the straws that broke the camels back for me. And I'm disappointed in coach K for continuing to accept that outlook on the game, if not condoning it.



The elbow was incidental contact. Allen's arm/elbow were up too high and he was called for it so no reason to make a mountain out of a mole hill. Justin Jackson tripped Grayson Allen but I don't see the front page of ESPN exploding with moral outrage.

[brevity]

Been traveling all week...

That's the Carolina Way. (Sorry, Wheat.)

Despite the loss, that game was fun to follow. This postgame thread is not. The best thing I read was the observation that absolute zero is 0 Kelvin. Do better, DBR. It's now the postseason, you're healthy, and you've had plenty of practice.

Coach Williams did not like the "Overrated" chant, as you can see from this article (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/roy-williams-scolds-fans-for-chanting-overrated-at-dukes-harry-giles-150902695.html).


“We don’t need to frickin' do that,” he told reporters in Chapel Hill. “Every time you yell ‘overrated,’ the [other] team scores the corn-flabbin' next basket. They yelled ‘overrated,’ he made the dadgum free throw. I mean, dagnabbit, why the Sam Hill do you come up with that confounded chant? We’re intelligent. We go to North Carolina. Crud-blast-it already. Don’t piss off the other team by being stupid.”

I may have embellished that quote. Still trying to balance out the influences of Abe Simpson, Foghorn Leghorn, and Yosemite Sam.

[BandAlum83]

That's the Carolina Way. (Sorry, Wheat.)

Despite the loss, that game was fun to follow. This postgame thread is not. The best thing I read was the observation that absolute zero is 0 Kelvin. Do better, DBR. It's now the postseason, you're healthy, and you've had plenty of practice.

Coach Williams did not like the "Overrated" chant, as you can see from this article (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/roy-williams-scolds-fans-for-chanting-overrated-at-dukes-harry-giles-150902695.html).



I may have embellished that quote. Still trying to balance out the influences of Abe Simpson, Foghorn Leghorn, and Yosemite Sam.

Unless Deputy Dog is included in your scales, you will never get the balance quite right.

As for Kelvin and absolute zero, I'm embarrassed i missed the layup, but very grateful to uh_no for cleaning the glass with the stick-back.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

One of the true tragedies of the one and done era is robbing fans of the pleasure to watch players develop over four seasons. Jayson Tatum has the potential to be one of the all time great players in the history of Duke basketball, but by this time next year he will be largely forgotten.



The elbow was incidental contact. Allen's arm/elbow were up too high and he was called for it so no reason to make a mountain out of a mole hill. Justin Jackson tripped Grayson Allen but I don't see the front page of ESPN exploding with moral outrage.

I agree, It's a shame we can't get to see the really talented players reach their true potential in college. What's bad is that if they did stay, they'd probably be much better off in the long run when they do get to the NBA. Can't blame them for going for the money, however, the way the system is now.

As for Grayson, I didn't see the elbow as overly aggressive, more like a frustrated response, but it looked to me that it was certainly intentional fighting off an overly aggressive defender. Robinson deserved that foul, and Grayson deserved his. But what really gets me that I hate from all players is the head snap Grayson did on that same play trying to oversell the foul. Somebody please Gif that and show me why that was necessary, or the other one. It demeans the game, and my point is it only makes him look bad. It's so forced its become almost comical. He'd get lots more respect from fans, and refs, just playing through that sort of stuff, like Kennard does.

When we see a UNC player, or anybody else, do the same thing, I'll call them out on it too.

[Dukehky]

Having our starting small forward get a rebound or score a point would be helpful moving forward.

Oh well, I didn't think we played that well and hung in there pretty good. I am just never going to understand why Bolden doesn't play more when they are having so much success on the inside. I've resigned myself to wondering about that for the rest of time.

[lotusland]

Great post, this has been a pet peeve of mine for several years. Post players who make attempts for a very low probability blocked shot and are therefore in poor rebounding position.

I can live with Amile trying to bother the shot but I don't know how smart it is for Giles to jump out on Seventh Woods while Meeks lumbers past unimpeded to set up under the basket. Conversely, Giles switched off on Berry in the first half then left him unguarded as he drained a 3. I'd like to reverse those strategies and let Woods have a little room but stay in Berry's grill until help arrives.

[Neals384]

Try this link (http://www.goheels.com//ViewContent.dbml?SPSID=668156&SPID=12965&DB_LANG=C&SITE=UNC&DB_OEM_ID=3350&CONTENT_ID=2039082). Let me know if that suffices.

Thanks, Troublemaker! It has what I need. But I'm going to take a bath afterwards.

[Rich]

But what really gets me that I hate from all players is the head snap Grayson did on that same play trying to oversell the foul. Somebody please Gif that and show me why that was necessary, or the other one. It demeans the game, and my point is it only makes him look bad. It's so forced its become almost comical. He'd get lots more respect from fans, and refs, just playing through that sort of stuff, like Kennard does.

Can't say I disagree. Kind of reminds me of Hurley's pouty face. It always bugged me because it was not necessary and was fodder for criticism.

[lotusland]

Having our starting small forward get a rebound or score a point would be helpful moving forward.

Oh well, I didn't think we played that well and hung in there pretty good. I am just never going to understand why Bolden doesn't play more when they are having so much success on the inside. I've resigned myself to wondering about that for the rest of time.

We need Jones to hit some shots to keep the D honest but playing Bolden at Jones expense is probably not a good solution. Jones frustrated a POY candidate in Jackson and he did pick up 2 steals which I would argue is worth much more than a rebound. Bolden has not shown a lot of offense this year. I doubt he'd have contributed more in the way of rebounding and defense than we lose by putting jones on the bench. Giles and Bolden really needed to be healthy during the non-conference schedule to gain the comfort level and confidence they needed to be more of a factor. Following their injuries, Duke really had to pick between the two (or go with Jeter?) as a backup/2nd big. In Bolden's limited action he really hasn't shown that he's as ready to contribute as Giles. I'll be surprised if Bolden plays more than 5 minutes in any tournament game this year unless there is an injury to Amile, Tatum or Giles.

[rsvman]

Conversely, Giles switched off on Berry in the first half then left him unguarded as he drained a 3. I'd like to reverse those strategies and let Woods have a little room but stay in Berry's grill until help arrives.

People keep saying this, but it's not true. That wasn't a switch. It was meant to be a hard hedge. Giles isn't as good at that hedge as Bolden is, so his angle wasn't perfect, and consequently he didn't really force Berry to the spot he was supposed to.

After the hard hedge, it's his job to get back to the screener to prevent an easy entry pass and layup bucket, so he had to leave Berry. He did exactly what he was supposed to do, apart from really taking Berry out of the play the way Bolden does.

It's not fair to say that it was a switch and Giles just "left him."

[Skydog]

Jayson wasn't the reason we lost. Please!
Maybe not - but he was a big part of it. In one sense winning games is simple - just score more points per possession than your opponent. But that is hard to do when you have one player on the floor for 30 minutes, using up 26% of the possessions and he only scores at a 89pts/100 possession clip.

The table below is sorted from highest possession usage to lowest. The rest of the team was either quite efficient (Kennard, Jackson, Allen & Jefferson ranging with ORtgs from 114-144) of just didn't shoot Giles and Jones only took 3 shots and has 1 turnover between them.

My point isn't to rag on Tatum - but in this game he wasn't as selective as he needed to be. In recent prior games he was being more selective and efficient and it really helped the team. Not so last night.



Name Min ORtg %Ps Pts 2Pt 3Pt FT OR DR A TO Blk Stl PF
Luke Kennard 39 144 26 28 7-11 2-6 8-9 2 3 1 0 1 1 0
Jayson Tatum 30 89 26 13 2-9 2-4 3-4 1 4 1 2 0 1 3
Frank Jackson 32 114 22 15 3-6 1-3 6-7 0 6 2 2 0 1 3
Grayson Allen 23 140 22 14 0-0 2-4 8-11 0 1 1 1 0 2 3
Amile Jefferson 36 136 14 12 5-8 0-0 2-2 2 4 2 1 2 1 3
Harry Giles 13 75 10 1 0-0 0-0 1-2 1 2 0 1 1 0 3
Matt Jones 26 24 5 0 0-1 0-2 0-0 0 0 1 0 0 2 2
Marques Bolden 1 0 0-0 0-0 0-0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

[Karl Beem]

Maybe not - but he was a big part of it. In one sense winning games is simple - just score more points per possession than your opponent. But that is hard to do when you have one player on the floor for 30 minutes, using up 26% of the possessions and he only scores at a 89pts/100 possession clip.

The table below is sorted from highest possession usage to lowest. The rest of the team was either quite efficient (Kennard, Jackson, Allen & Jefferson ranging with ORtgs from 114-144) of just didn't shoot Giles and Jones only took 3 shots and has 1 turnover between them.

My point isn't to rag on Tatum - but in this game he wasn't as selective as he needed to be. In recent prior games he was being more selective and efficient and it really helped the team. Not so last night.



Name Min ORtg %Ps Pts 2Pt 3Pt FT OR DR A TO Blk Stl PF
Luke Kennard 39 144 26 28 7-11 2-6 8-9 2 3 1 0 1 1 0
Jayson Tatum 30 89 26 13 2-9 2-4 3-4 1 4 1 2 0 1 3
Frank Jackson 32 114 22 15 3-6 1-3 6-7 0 6 2 2 0 1 3
Grayson Allen 23 140 22 14 0-0 2-4 8-11 0 1 1 1 0 2 3
Amile Jefferson 36 136 14 12 5-8 0-0 2-2 2 4 2 1 2 1 3
Harry Giles 13 75 10 1 0-0 0-0 1-2 1 2 0 1 1 0 3
Matt Jones 26 24 5 0 0-1 0-2 0-0 0 0 1 0 0 2 2
Marques Bolden 1 0 0-0 0-0 0-0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0



Wasn't he guarding Hicks or Maye? They scored 29 points.

[Dukehky]

Wasn't he guarding Hicks or Maye? They scored 29 points.

Hicks and Maye scored almost exclusively off of the switches that we did when they set the ball screen. We never hedge and recover with Tatum, we just switch, which puts GA, Frank, Matt, or Luke on their 4 or 5 in the post.

This can work when other teams run their 4 out line-up, but not with Carolina, and is why I think that Bolden should have played more last night. Berry was exclusively a ball screen guard last night, couldn't create at all on his own.