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View Full Version : MBB: Duke 75, Fla State 70 Post-Game Thread



JBDuke
02-28-2017, 08:05 PM
Put your post-game thoughts here.

Tripping William
02-28-2017, 08:07 PM
Good win. Lots of positives to draw from it. On to The Friggin' Carolina Game.

WVDUKEFAN
02-28-2017, 08:08 PM
Could have won by 20. I think we let up too soon. Overall, the defense looked good.

pfrduke
02-28-2017, 08:08 PM
Defense allowed 43 points in the first 30 minutes. That's very good.

Then allowed 27 points on 17 possessions in the last 10 minutes. Even if you don't count the last 3 possessions when it was basically garbage time, it's still 20 point on 14 possessions given up down the stretch. Need to tighten that up.

duketaylor
02-28-2017, 08:10 PM
UVA took the Holes down last night, NEXT??!! GTHC, GTH!!!

9F9F9F9F!!!!!!!

Burn, baby, burn!!!

Troublemaker
02-28-2017, 08:11 PM
Good win. A second consecutive game in which Duke made progress following two games (Wake, @Cuse) where it seemed we had regressed on defense.

Duke's defense was very good in this game up until the point when Hamilton went super smallball (Isaac at the 5) and could play 5-out offense. Not sure we have any easy answers for that alignment. That said, very few teams can play it, and our next opponent definitely won't.

Amile was the man. Hopefully that wasn't just Senior Night adrenaline carrying him because we'll need that kind of performance from him going forward to do big things.

Frank was great. With FSU's in-your-face pressure D and playing the passing lanes, you need guards who can break the Seminoles down off the dribble and convert at the basket. Frank was up to the task.

Good PNR defense. Matt did the job on Bacon.

Like I said, good win. Thank you, seniors!

DukieInBrasil
02-28-2017, 08:16 PM
good to get a win!
We were up big when Grayson came in in the 2nd half and we gave up 8 pts off the lead before he came out and FSU was really on a roll. But we played well enough in winning time to tough it out. We did miss 4 FTs down the stretch, which is not optimal.
Amazing game from Amile on Sr. night!!! So glad that he was able to play at a high level, hopefully that continues.
Matt shut Bacon down for the most part, and his 2-9 FGs made it a Matt Jones type of game.
Jackson went from being totally silenced at Syracuse, to big at Miami and big tonight. I hope it's the start of a streak that continues the rest of the year!!!

devilnfla
02-28-2017, 08:18 PM
Tonight showed me that there's even more reason to have Frank and Luke as the primary guards with Frank running point.

Grayson, another sloppy performance with another very ugly fast break.

Amile missing 2 front ends of one and one's, not so good.

Luke with a late clutch 3 was awesome.

Tatum with several clutch plays.

Loved that K was able to get a curtain call for the seniors.

duketaylor
02-28-2017, 08:21 PM
Anybody else think we were whistled for several bogus traveling calls tonight? I was not happy. If I had the game on tape, I'd re-watch it and then call the ACC office. I think this year's been terrible for ACC hoops and NFL football for officiating. Just my opinion. And I'm strict.

Saratoga2
02-28-2017, 08:22 PM
Duke's normal starting lineup with Frank in for an ailing Grayson took it to Fla Sts big lineup. Frank was great and Amile at 70% was playing one of his best games. We were able to build a big lead and good that we did as we had several stretches where we didn't adjust our defense to Fla Sts change to a small lineup that drove to the basket at every opportunity and were successful in doing so. We also got a little sloppy but having Tatum and Luke available to put points on the board.

Hope Amile will get past his injury, but he is just so important to our success, he had to be used tonight. Grayson played but obviously has a ways to go to be the Grayson that was a POY candidate. Lest we forget, the kid can really play when healthy.

Great win, now rest up for another battle on Saturday.

jv001
02-28-2017, 08:23 PM
Tonight showed me that there's even more reason to have Frank and Luke as the primary guards with Frank running point.

Grayson, another sloppy performance with another very ugly fast break.

Amile missing 2 front ends of one and one's, not so good.

Luke with a late clutch 3 was awesome.

Tatum with several clutch plays.

Loved that K was able to get a curtain call for the seniors.

How easy we forget. Grayson has given everything he's had for Duke University. Without him we don't get #5. Amile on senior night was sensational and that was playing injured. Enjoy the win and let's beat the cheats. GoDuke!

Billy Dat
02-28-2017, 08:33 PM
Amile had a fantastic, gritty Senior Night. He really led us.

Frank was so important tonight, a star making performance. The segment in the second half when he took over the scoring load was awesome.

Luke was huge down the stretch. His 3 with 6 left when they had cut it to 8 was the most important shot of the night. He also had some big offensive rebounds.

Jayson was also very important, he scored big buckets, rebounded, guarded and, most importantly, played smart. He also played 39 minutes.

The D was good until it wasn't. The lay-up drill for 5-6 key minutes of the second half was enraging me. The stall ball worked better than usual, although I thought Lenny Hamilton gave us an out by mostly not fouling down the stretch.

Big big win! Thanks to Matt and Amile and Nick. This may have also been the final game in Cameron for many others, but that talk can wait!

bluenorth
02-28-2017, 08:37 PM
Anybody else think we were whistled for several bogus traveling calls tonight? I was not happy. If I had the game on tape, I'd re-watch it and then call the ACC office. I think this year's been terrible for ACC hoops and NFL football for officiating. Just my opinion. And I'm strict.

Agreed. I didn't see anything different tonight from the rest of the season in how players were moving, yet the whistles blew several times for traveling. Most likely the refs were told to tighten up heading into the post season.

duketaylor
02-28-2017, 08:38 PM
Lots of Frank and an apparently healthy Amile.


Now Vandy up big at UK, can that keep up????!!!

bluenorth
02-28-2017, 08:40 PM
How easy we forget. Grayson has given everything he's had for Duke University. Without him we don't get #5. Amile on senior night was sensational and that was playing injured. Enjoy the win and let's beat the cheats. GoDuke!

Is there any definitive information on Allen's injury? Can he actually get back to 100% without taking a full week (or two) off? I know that the Duke staff don't give out much information about such things, but sometimes word leaks out anyway.

fuse
02-28-2017, 08:42 PM
I made a point to pop up watch espn on my phone on my layover to avoid a 3 game skid. You are all welcome :rolleyes:

wsb3
02-28-2017, 08:44 PM
Very happy to watch Amile & Matt leave Cameron on a winning note...& also to the voice of the Blue Devils..41 years ...Wow!.. The games Bob has watched & called. Amazing run..

-jk
02-28-2017, 08:46 PM
Is there any definitive information on Allen's injury? Can he actually get back to 100% without taking a full week (or two) off? I know that the Duke staff don't give out much information about such things, but sometimes word leaks out anyway.

Sprains are slow. I suspect it'll be May before he's even close to normal. Alas...

(My biggest brother sprained his ankle badly in college more than 40 years ago. It still bugs him.)

-jk

bluenorth
02-28-2017, 08:50 PM
Sprains are slow. I suspect it'll be May before he's even close to normal. Alas...

(My biggest brother sprained his ankle badly in college more than 40 years ago. It still bugs him.)

-jk

I'm afraid you're right. Allen's probably using with an ice bag several times a day and we've seen him with his ankle taped. But if you don't let it heal completely, the slightest tweak sends you back to square one of the healing process. But when you're young you're invincible!

Newton_14
02-28-2017, 08:53 PM
Defense allowed 43 points in the first 30 minutes. That's very good.

Then allowed 27 points on 17 possessions in the last 10 minutes. Even if you don't count the last 3 possessions when it was basically garbage time, it's still 20 point on 14 possessions given up down the stretch. Need to tighten that up.

Yes an FSU wasn't even running an offense during that time. They went small, spread the floor, and basically whichever player brought the ball up the court drove it straight to the rim, and in most cases got a layup, a foul, or both. When FSU actually ran an offense with a normal line up our defense was pretty darn good.

I thought the FSU defense was pretty darn impressive for most of the first half. Man they can defend. They looked like 1988 Duke.

I really wish Grayson had been held out though. He is just nowhere near 100% on that ankle. He could not push off and had no lateral movement. Made for a tough night for him.

Frank Jackson was really outstanding tonight offensively. He really gave us a shot in the arm from the perimeter and Amile was just a man down low all night. Matt held Bacon in check and Luke/Tatum provided the rest.

Big win and we needed it. Now let's hang another L on the tarCheats in our home away from home NoseDome. That would make up for a lot of the disappointments all the injuries have brought us this year.

I'm still convinced if they could just get healthy these guys could hurt a lot of teams feelings....

Shout out to our Seniors! Love those guys!!

devilsadvocate85
02-28-2017, 09:02 PM
He gave us minutes that we had to have to get through this game against an incredibly athletic and deep team. I would bet he doesn't play if this game wasn't against FSU. We needed his minutes to take some load off Frank. There is no doubt he's not the same player, but anyone who criticizes a kid playing hurt needs to rethink things in my opinion.

SoCalDukeFan
02-28-2017, 09:04 PM
Anybody else think we were whistled for several bogus traveling calls tonight? I was not happy. If I had the game on tape, I'd re-watch it and then call the ACC office. I think this year's been terrible for ACC hoops and NFL football for officiating. Just my opinion. And I'm strict.

These refs actually called traveling. I think the FSU fans have the same compliant. Some might have been bogus not sure but glad to see them actually not allow 3 or 4 steps.

SoCall

PackMan97
02-28-2017, 09:05 PM
Congrats....now you just need to take care of business against the Cheaters.

devilsadvocate85
02-28-2017, 09:07 PM
Anybody else think we were whistled for several bogus traveling calls tonight? I was not happy. If I had the game on tape, I'd re-watch it and then call the ACC office. I think this year's been terrible for ACC hoops and NFL football for officiating. Just my opinion. And I'm strict.

I haven't had the chance to go back and watch my DVR, but they showed the one on Tatum late in the game in front of the Duke bench on the screen in Cameron. Absolutely not a travel on the shot. He may have traveled on the catch and face up, but that's not what was called.

Billy Dat
02-28-2017, 09:07 PM
Grayson closed well, nifty Kennard-esque drive, plant, spin-pivot, short floater. He is far from 100%, FAR.

Channing
02-28-2017, 09:11 PM
Great defense for 30 minutes. Everyone, Harry included, looked good against the PnR. But, I am confused. I can't seem to find an in depth analysis on every news outlet analyzing XRM's trip ((was it a trip or wasn't it? Let's look at it from 1500 angles) of Grayson...

moonpie23
02-28-2017, 09:16 PM
ESPN just can't let off....skipper's mad about last night, so the current story has (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/recap?gameId=400915469) a photo of grayson....just sitting on the bench, but in the middle of the story, a paragraph titled "another spill" and actually slanted it so that the reader questions whether or not grayson "did it again"...

devilnfla
02-28-2017, 09:20 PM
How easy we forget. Grayson has given everything he's had for Duke University. Without him we don't get #5. Amile on senior night was sensational and that was playing injured. Enjoy the win and let's beat the cheats. GoDuke!

Who said I forgot? I'm glad both put on a Duke uniform. I just want one of them to hit the 1 and 1's at a better rate and the other to learn how to run a fast break. Grayson, injured or not has been abysmal as of late. I enjoyed watching Frank lead this team tonight. It was much more enjoyable than watching Grayson lately.

NYBri
02-28-2017, 09:29 PM
Game over. 9F!

rsvman
02-28-2017, 09:33 PM
Big, big win. So happy for the seniors and all the guys.

I mentioned it on the in-game thread and it's been mentioned upthread here, but our D was sold against an actual offense, but porous against street ball.

My concern going forward is that we can easily be had by quick guys just going down the lane to the hole. If FSU had done that all night, we would have lost the game. The coaches need to figure out some way to slow that sort of "And-1" game down.

Other than that, though, a strong showing. Jackson getting smarter with the ball (he's always been quick).

CDu
02-28-2017, 09:42 PM
First, had a fun time watching with FerryFor50 in Cameron! This was my only live game of the season, and what a fun one it was!

Gotta start with the seniors. Jefferson brought it in a big way. His 14 and 11 were huge. But just as huge was Matt Jones, who locked up Bacon until FSU went small and forced Jones onto Rathan-Mayes (who Jones blanked down the stretch). I will miss both of these guys next year.

That being said, two of the freshmen were also monsters. Jayson Tatum was a stud tonight: 15 points, 9 rebounds, 4 assists, 2 steals, and 2 blocks. And frankly his defensive stats seem like an underestimate. And Frank Jackson just exploded on the scene. There was a stretch in the second half where he repeatedly torched a pair of All-ACC defenders (Isaacs and Rathan-Mayes). Jackson looked like the best scorer guard on the court in a game loaded with NBA talent. This was a big coming-out party for him. If he can play the way he has the last two games, our ceiling rises.

Kennard was his usual crafty self. Just a ho-hum 17 and 6. The game just looks easy for him.

I commend Allen for giving it a go, but he was clearly still very limited on that ankle. In a loosely-called (physicality-wise) game, it is tough on a guy with a bum wheel. Still, we probably don't win without Allen giving our starters just enough rest.

FSU made things interesting late by going small. I don't think we handled it well, perhaps in part due to fatigue. But thankfully we had enough in the tank.

Great win. Now we get a chance to sweep UNC. Go Duke!

FerryFor50
02-28-2017, 09:43 PM
ESPN just can't let off...skipper's mad about last night, so the current story has (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/recap?gameId=400915469) a photo of grayson...just sitting on the bench, but in the middle of the story, a paragraph titled "another spill" and actually slanted it so that the reader questions whether or not grayson "did it again"...

I didn't get a chance to see a replay (was lucky enough to be at the game), so I can't really comment on the trip. But I did notice a lot of extra curricular contact against Allen by FSU players multiple times. Shoulders to the head on screens. Lowering shoulders on drives. And then subsequent jawing at him. So I could imagine that XRM might have possibly tripped him on purpose, but would need to see the replay. Allen, for his part, was smiling through it all and not letting it goad him.

The game itself was a bit weird. LOTS of travel calls, but only one or two that seemed legit. Tatum's travel was the worst call, because he was also getting smacked on his turnaround move. And these refs didn't seem to know what a head fake/first step looked like, because that was the travel they kept calling repeatedly by both teams.

Also weird was how seemingly in control Duke was most of the game, but at the 8 min mark, Hamilton went small and FSU really amped up the pressure. Full court press, contact on and off ball (daring refs to call it) and on offense, essentially jacking up the first shot you could get. The offense they were playing could have easily gone awry for them, especially if Duke could have kept them off the offensive glass down the stretch.

But Frank was amazing, and Amile was a warrior. Tatum and Kennard did just enough down the stretch to keep the win intact. It was a game I wasn't super confident about going in that turned out to be a pleasant, mostly easy win.

FerryFor50
02-28-2017, 09:45 PM
First, had a fun time watching with FerryFor50 in Cameron! This was my only live game of the season, and what a fun one it was!

Gotta start with the seniors. Jefferson brought it in a big way. His 14 and 11 were huge. But just as huge was Matt Jones, who locked up Bacon until FSU went small and forced Jones onto Rathan-Mayes (who Jones blanked down the stretch). I will miss both of these guys next year.

That being said, two of the freshmen were also monsters. Jayson Tatum was a stud tonight: 15 points, 9 rebounds, 4 assists, 2 steals, and 2 blocks. And frankly his defensive stats seem like an underestimate. And Frank Jackson just exploded on the scene. There was a stretch in the second half where he repeatedly torched a pair of All-ACC defenders (Isaacs and Rathan-Mayes). Jackson looked like the best scorer guard on the court in a game loaded with NBA talent. This was a big coming-out party for him. If he can play the way he has the last two games, our ceiling rises.

Kennard was his usual crafty self. Just a ho-hum 17 and 6. The game just looks easy for him.

I commend Allen for giving it a go, but he was clearly still very limited on that ankle. In a loosely-called (physicality-wise) game, it is tough on a guy with a bum wheel. Still, we probably don't win without Allen giving our starters just enough rest.

FSU made things interesting late by going small. I don't think we handled it well, perhaps in part due to fatigue. But thankfully we had enough in the tank.

Great win. Now we get a chance to sweep UNC. Go Duke!

SENIOR NIGHT MAGIC! (that was the key to the game as Amile had his best showing in awhile)

That move by Jackson on XRM, where he absolutely dusted him on a first step and then contorted in mid-air to score on Isaacs... yeesh.

I thought Frank did a good job answering the "can Frank be a PG" question. Just needs to get a little better at distributing. Overall was very solid on both ends of the floor.

Dukehky
02-28-2017, 09:48 PM
How easy we forget. Grayson has given everything he's had for Duke University. Without him we don't get #5. Amile on senior night was sensational and that was playing injured. Enjoy the win and let's beat the cheats. GoDuke!

Yes, he had a phenomenal 8 minute stretch two years ago. I know that he's hurt and we all love him, but saying that he isn't playing well isn't some kind of slap in the face. Not everything in life is strippers and cupcakes.

I think he will play better moving forward, but he really struggled in every facet of the game tonight. Couldn't get free, ball handling was really suspect. But he played within his capabilities as currently constituted for the most part and deferred to Tatum and Jackson late in the shot clock, which is a drastic change from earlier in the year.

I think his lack-luster play is primarily a result of his health status, but there's no need to go at someone for criticizing how he played tonight. Also, "how quickly we forget, he was great 2 years ago" isn't exactly the most convincing line of argument. There are far more recent successes by GA to point to. 98 Duke fans weren't saying, "how quickly we forget, Ricky Price was awesome as a freshman!"

TNTDevil
02-28-2017, 09:52 PM
Defense allowed 43 points in the first 30 minutes. That's very good.

Then allowed 27 points on 17 possessions in the last 10 minutes. Even if you don't count the last 3 possessions when it was basically garbage time, it's still 20 point on 14 possessions given up down the stretch. Need to tighten that up.Quality win against a really good team. While I thought our defense was pretty good in the first half, in fairness, FSU did miss a bunch of chippies. And I appreciated seeing those misses and another team struggle around the rim like we have of late.

FerryFor50
02-28-2017, 10:00 PM
I didn't get a chance to see a replay (was lucky enough to be at the game), so I can't really comment on the trip. But I did notice a lot of extra curricular contact against Allen by FSU players multiple times. Shoulders to the head on screens. Lowering shoulders on drives. And then subsequent jawing at him. So I could imagine that XRM might have possibly tripped him on purpose, but would need to see the replay. Allen, for his part, was smiling through it all and not letting it goad him.

The game itself was a bit weird. LOTS of travel calls, but only one or two that seemed legit. Tatum's travel was the worst call, because he was also getting smacked on his turnaround move. And these refs didn't seem to know what a head fake/first step looked like, because that was the travel they kept calling repeatedly by both teams.

Also weird was how seemingly in control Duke was most of the game, but at the 8 min mark, Hamilton went small and FSU really amped up the pressure. Full court press, contact on and off ball (daring refs to call it) and on offense, essentially jacking up the first shot you could get. The offense they were playing could have easily gone awry for them, especially if Duke could have kept them off the offensive glass down the stretch.

But Frank was amazing, and Amile was a warrior. Tatum and Kennard did just enough down the stretch to keep the win intact. It was a game I wasn't super confident about going in that turned out to be a pleasant, mostly easy win.

Here's an article on the XRM incident:

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/did-xavier-rathan-mayes-get-tripping-revenge-on-grayson-allen-video-023311165.html

Looked like it could have been intentional, especially given XRM's comments about it being "personal" after last season. But I can see why no foul was called.

jipops
02-28-2017, 10:08 PM
This was a satisfying win against a very, very good team. We had pretty weird offensive drought for about 5 minutes in the 1st half but the defense sustained. The first few minutes of the 2nd half were an explosion and then it was all maintenance after that. It's a difficult part of the game to watch as we give up layup after layup, but we seemed to manage the game pretty well.

Frank Jackson has some serious game. I love how quick he gets to the basket. Luke looked tired to me tonight. The three he put up that banked in was a horrible looking shot, it just happened to hit the glass just right. I really don't like the hero ball we go to with Tatum but at least tonight it worked. I guess K thought Jayson could at least get to the line where we were in the double bonus for about the last 7 minutes. Tonight was a signature Amile game, double-double with 4 blocks.

I would of course love to beat the cheats, but it would be totally fine with me if K held Grayson out Saturday. The games starting next week are just so much more important.

rsvman
02-28-2017, 10:14 PM
Yes, he had a phenomenal 8 minute stretch two years ago. I know that he's hurt and we all love him, but saying that he isn't playing well isn't some kind of slap in the face. Not everything in life is strippers and cupcakes.

I think he will play better moving forward, but he really struggled in every facet of the game tonight. Couldn't get free, ball handling was really suspect. But he played within his capabilities as currently constituted for the most part and deferred to Tatum and Jackson late in the shot clock, which is a drastic change from earlier in the year.

I think his lack-luster play is primarily a result of his health status, but there's no need to go at someone for criticizing how he played tonight. Also, "how quickly we forget, he was great 2 years ago" isn't exactly the most convincing line of argument. There are far more recent successes by GA to point to. 98 Duke fans weren't saying, "how quickly we forget, Ricky Price was awesome as a freshman!"

Ummm.....he was awesome the last time we played UNC. Arguably the most valuable player that night. And if I recall correctly, that was the fourth game in a row in which he had played really well. Those games occurred after the turf toe but before the sprain.

So yeah, I guess I would also say "how quickly people forget." It wasn't two years ago. It was this.freaking.month.

Oh, and by the way,he also averaged over 20 points a game for the entire season sandwiched in between that "phenomenal 8-minute stretch" and the beginning of this season. (Insert favorite rolling eyes emoji here.)

KandG
02-28-2017, 10:16 PM
Just a terrific win based on the defense in the first and early second half, and the ability to fight through the injuries. If not for the rampant turnovers and the inevitable 18-7 second half run we gave up by virtue of the other team's guards/wings just driving it at us full court, I would have said this was the team's best win of the season.

FSU was determined to pressure us high, play passing lanes aggressively, funnel us inside toward their size, and close out hard on our shooters. They're so quick and athletic that it was brutal trying to find ways to score for most of the first half (poor Luke tried every trick in the book to draw a foul and got virtually nothing for his effort). But once we got some separation thanks to our defense, and attacked them off the dribble more authoritatively (especially Frank), things opened up more effectively.

Kudos to Frank for putting us on his back for a while. That was a spectacular run. I liked how he and Amile had a two man game going on a few possessions, where Amile would screen and re-screen and flip the screen and Frank would read how to attack so well. Considering how much Amile yelled at Frank early in the season for his impulsiveness and gaffes on defense, that chemistry was fun to watch.

I can't honestly say I was able to breathe easily when the lead shrunk in the later stages of the second half, given how much we ended up relying on isolations to close the game out. Seven assists and 14 turnovers (Jayson with 5 of them) is just not pretty, and it's clear we still miss Grayson -- Frank had one assist. But the way FSU played us, we pretty much had to out-talent them and I liked how our guys stepped up.

The Duke senior role player/glue guy may be an unfashionable cliche with all our high powered one and dones the last five years, but I'm going to miss Amile and Matt greatly. Amile was my MoTM for the way he held everything together throughout the game.

Jayson had an erratic shooting line and those turnovers, but on defense he keeps making strides, and he hit big shots down the stretch. Thought this was one of his better all-around games by the eye test, and the box score reinforced that: 9 rebounds, 4 assists, 2 steals, 2 blocks, and he avoided foul trouble.

Said this in a previous thread: our first half points allowed in 7 of the last 9 games -- 23, 22, 25, 25, 18, 28, 25. Only Wake and UNC scored big on us from the start, and they have pretty good offenses. Now we just have to keep working on tightening up things in the second half, and getting healthy.

UrinalCake
02-28-2017, 11:17 PM
Really really impressed with how Frank handled the ball against intense pressure all game long. FSU had defenders right up in his face, and the refs were allowing a whole lot of hand checking and grabbing, but he handled it and used the overplay to his advantage by getting past his man and finding the open lanes. When they pressured full court he dribbled right through it, and I don't think he had any turnovers despite the constant heavy pressure. To me, his ability to handle the ball both in the full court and in the half court was just as important a development as his scoring.

Neals384
02-28-2017, 11:20 PM
good to get a win!
We were up big when Grayson came in in the 2nd half and we gave up 8 pts off the lead before he came out and FSU was really on a roll.

Not sure this is right. To which shift do you refer?

weezie
02-28-2017, 11:41 PM
How easy we forget. Grayson has given everything he's had for Duke University. Without him we don't get #5. Amile on senior night was sensational and that was playing injured. Enjoy the win and let's beat the cheats. GoDuke!

Amen brother. Grayson was giving whatever he could tonight too. Spent several plays watching him with the binoculars, he's a big influence on the court. Always gesturing, signaling and keeping an eye on K. He's come a long way in leadership. Boy do I hope he comes back.

kAzE
02-28-2017, 11:43 PM
Thanks Amile and Matt . . . for everything. Two really special guys. It was a joy to watch you grow and mature as players and as young men with this program. We'll definitely miss you.

pfrduke
02-28-2017, 11:55 PM
Not sure this is right. To which shift do you refer?

It's not right. First stretch, he subbed in when we were up 17 and out 3 1/2 minutes later up 17. Second stretch, he subbed in when we were up 13 and subbed out 2 minutes later up 11. Then he came in when we were up 8 with 2:23 left and played essentially the rest of the game. So from the first time he checked in in the second half, we were -5 with Grayson on the court (more than half of which came in garbage time) and -7 with him on the bench.

-bdbd
03-01-2017, 12:02 AM
Just the nature of fan sites to complain about a team's performance...

But this really was a very solid win against another top-20 team. Even if we were to somehow lose in Chapel Hell, I'd still see us moving up slightly in the rankings Mon. And we are still in the running for a number 2 or 3 seed in the ACCT next week. Gotta get that double-bye!

BTW, so glad Amile was able to go out in CIS on such a high note.

uh_no
03-01-2017, 12:10 AM
would have preferred we didn't nearly blow a 19 point lead, but the fact it was that big to begin with was exceptional. FSU is a really good team.

but seriously....the layup line on defense is getting old.

pfrduke
03-01-2017, 12:30 AM
would have preferred we didn't nearly blow a 19 point lead, but the fact it was that big to begin with was exceptional. FSU is a really good team.

but seriously...the layup line on defense is getting old.

We didn't really nearly blow a 19 point lead. FSU never possessed the ball in the second half when we had less than a double-digit lead until there were 20 seconds left in the game, at which point there was no real risk of a loss. The 5-point final margin is misleading - this really was a 9- or 10-point win that fell victim to some garbage time.

gam7
03-01-2017, 12:34 AM
would have preferred we didn't nearly blow a 19 point lead, but the fact it was that big to begin with was exceptional. FSU is a really good team.

but seriously...the layup line on defense is getting old.

If only our transition defense could somehow make our opponents look like our transition offense, we'd be getting somewhere.

mr. synellinden
03-01-2017, 02:37 AM
We didn't really nearly blow a 19 point lead. FSU never possessed the ball in the second half when we had less than a double-digit lead until there were 20 seconds left in the game, at which point there was no real risk of a loss. The 5-point final margin is misleading - this really was a 9- or 10-point win that fell victim to some garbage time.

This is not true. FSU cut the lead to 8 (64-56) with 6:30 left and then Kennard hit a very tough 3 pointer to push the lead back to 11. It wasn't a great shot to take, but he made it. As another poster noted, that was the play of the game and I agree.

For the life of me I don't know why we don't play a little zone from time to time. Especially when our bench is so thin and we clearly could not stop them from driving to the basket in the last 10 minutes. We did it quite a bit in 2015 and that worked out okay. It would hide Kennard's defensive weakness and allow Jefferson to play even more of a middle linebacker/communicator role on defense.

NashvilleDevil
03-01-2017, 04:15 AM
Tonight showed me that there's even more reason to have Frank and Luke as the primary guards with Frank running point.

Grayson, another sloppy performance with another very ugly fast break.

Amile missing 2 front ends of one and one's, not so good.

Luke with a late clutch 3 was awesome.

Tatum with several clutch plays.

Loved that K was able to get a curtain call for the seniors.

My goodness there's some negativity in this post. Amile played like a man and you focus on missed free throws? Grayson still playing hurt and still out there competing and you focus on a botched fast break? Do better.

dukelifer
03-01-2017, 05:20 AM
Two things stood out in the win. First, Frank Jackson came to play. Sometimes you have to play like you think you are the best player on the floor. Jackson played like that. He had a little Jason Williams swagger and it motivated his teammates. Also Amile was unafraid and gave an inside presence. This team cannot rely on jump shots. It needs to score inside either by passing better or taking it strong to the basket. Yesterday Duke looked very good for much of the game. FSU has some long athletic players and Duke wore down. But Jackson played with confidence. That made a big difference. Let's hope he can keep it going.

devilnfla
03-01-2017, 06:01 AM
My goodness there's some negativity in this post. Amile played like a man and you focus on missed free throws? Grayson still playing hurt and still out there competing and you focus on a botched fast break? Do better.

Those missed FT's are like TOs when they're on the front end. Expect better from a 5 year senior, especially on the second time to the charity stripe and late in the game.

I know Grayson is not a 100%, but he knows too. He has to give that ball up in transition to someone that can make a play. He's blown 6 of these now in the past 2 games.

The rest of my post was positive. Did you stop reading? Please do better!

Dr. Rosenrosen
03-01-2017, 06:17 AM
Congrats to the seniors! Amile and Matt are warriors. Coach K's hugs with those two brought a slight tear to my eye. You could see the love and respect there.

I thought we executed pretty well overall. A little rough on the offensive end for the first 10 minutes or so but FSU is huge and played tough D. But taken together with the Miami game, I thought it showed real learning and progress. I'm stoked for Saturday and to see what these guys can do over the next few weeks.

Side note: I was disappointed as hell to see 6 pages of whining and complaining within two hours of the Miami loss followed by just 2.5 pages (to this point) of generally cautious praise mixed with continued criticism after last night's great win. I don't get it. What does this board want? The season is nearly at a close. I urge some of you to try to enjoy what's left. For your sake and for that of the rest of the board.

Saratoga2
03-01-2017, 06:27 AM
My take on the offense is that we were at our best when we kept the ball in motion with passes. We were quicker when FSU had their big lineup on the floor and did find some neat ways to get Amile the ball in deep. It became clear that Franks quickness and athleticism gave FSU fits with their larger lineup on the floor. Great for Frank and Amile.

When we reverted to more of a one on one play, we have Jason and Luke who are very hard to stop totally. Both are excellent from the FT line as well. One thing I notice about Jayson is that he is very right hand dominant. When driving to the left side of the rim, he invariably uses his right hand. It works for him due to his length and hops, but the ball is not in an optimum position to avoid a block. He has missed a number of those throughout the season and will need to develop the left handed move for the NBA.

Realistically, we now have scorers in Amile, Frank, Jayson and Luke. Matt gets it done primarily on defense but we could sure use him to wake up and hit a few more open shots going forward. Grayson is not yet healthy but the 4 days until UNC with professional therapy may bring him closer to his full capability. I don't really expect it but can hope. We will also need Harry and Marques for the UNC game to counter the 3 bigs they have.

Spanarkel
03-01-2017, 06:43 AM
Thanks Amile and Matt . . . for everything. Two really special guys. It was a joy to watch you grow and mature as players and as young men with this program. We'll definitely miss you.

This made me tear up. Thanks for posting it! Let's go, Duke!

CDu
03-01-2017, 07:03 AM
This is not true. FSU cut the lead to 8 (64-56) with 6:30 left and then Kennard hit a very tough 3 pointer to push the lead back to 11. It wasn't a great shot to take, but he made it. As another poster noted, that was the play of the game and I agree.

For the life of me I don't know why we don't play a little zone from time to time. Especially when our bench is so thin and we clearly could not stop them from driving to the basket in the last 10 minutes. We did it quite a bit in 2015 and that worked out okay. It would hide Kennard's defensive weakness and allow Jefferson to play even more of a middle linebacker/communicator role on defense.

Pfrduke said FSU never possessed the ball with the score difference less than 10. Your scenario (and several others) don't violate that statement. We had the ball when FSU was down 8.

Channing
03-01-2017, 07:12 AM
The whole team put in Yeoman's work. I think Tatum spent the bulk of his time guarding Bacon and Isaacs (or some combination of Bacon and Matt), and both had subpar games by their standards. If we could get Matt back to 35% on open 3s we become soooo much harder to guard. He had the one 3 in transition, and if that once again becomes a real threat it opens the court for Tatum/Jackson/Kennard/(healthy) Grayson to get back to the drive and kick which was lethal against UNC.

FerryFor50
03-01-2017, 07:23 AM
Pfrduke said FSU never possessed the ball with the score difference less than 10. Your scenario (and several others) don't violate that statement. We had the ball when FSU was down 8.

That's kind of hard to do when you win by 5.

FSU had several possessions where they were under 10pts, but Duke seemed to always have an answer.

Newton_14
03-01-2017, 07:33 AM
That's kind of hard to do when you win by 5.

FSU had several possessions where they were under 10pts, but Duke seemed to always have an answer.

PFR had a clarifier... he said FSU never possessed the ball while under double digits until 'the last 20 seconds of the game" in garbage time. He actually is correct there. He is also correct that we did not blow the big lead with Grayson on the floor. PFR pretty clearly spelled out the score before and after Grayson played his second half segments. I know you did not argue that but someone else did and I wanted to back PFR up on both points.

I would have much preferred we completed the blow out, but not doing so was a combination of our injuries, our short bench, our fatigue down the stretch, FSU being a really good team, and FSU going small and abandoning their offense altogether by just letting the ball handler drive right down the lane against our defense that was holding close to 3 point shooters on the wings leaving the on ball defender on an island. We had no one at all that could defend the ball handler one on one. No matter which Duke player was on the ball they got blown by.

However, FSU never got it to a point where I felt like we were in danger of losing the game.

jv001
03-01-2017, 07:41 AM
The whole team put in Yeoman's work. I think Tatum spent the bulk of his time guarding Bacon and Isaacs (or some combination of Bacon and Matt), and both had subpar games by their standards. If we could get Matt back to 35% on open 3s we become soooo much harder to guard. He had the one 3 in transition, and if that once again becomes a real threat it opens the court for Tatum/Jackson/Kennard/(healthy) Grayson to get back to the drive and kick which was lethal against UNC.

I thought Matt played one of his best games. He did a terrific job on Bacon who is going to be a good pro. But something else impressed me as well. He gave up a few open shots to give Luke, Jayson and Frank a chance to score. It looked like he knew his shot wasn't there, so for the team, he deferred to his team mates. I agree if Matt can regain that shooting touch from 3, we'll be that much harder to defend. As for our defense, I thought it was great for around 32 minutes or so. But when FSU went small, we had a hard time staying in front of people. Someone mentioned a zone and it might have worked if for nothing else, make FSU take some time in getting their shots off. I don't know if it would have worked, but it wouldn't have hurt to use it just to show them something else.

What I don't understand, is supposedly Duke fans to be so negative about Duke players. Throwing Grayson under the bus because he's not close to the player he was last season and he's not close to the player he was before the ankle sprain. I haven't seen the minutes played, but I know he gave Frank a breather and probably enabled Coach K to rest Matt and Luke for a couple of minutes. Then for people to trash Amile for missing FTs, when he had a double-double while playing on a bum foot. I just don't understand. I guess there are some fans that have their favorite players and they root for them and the heck with our other guys. Well, that's all I'm saying on this subject. Let's beat the Cheats and get ready for the ACCT. GoDuke!

DukieInBrasil
03-01-2017, 07:42 AM
Not sure this is right. To which shift do you refer?

He came in the 2nd half when we were up 19, and he left the game with ~4 minutes to go and we were up 11. I'm not saying he was solely responsible for that -8, but his already not-amazing defense was compromised even more by his ankle issues and he just couldn't defend their aggressive drives to the hoop. Granted, neither could Luke who got burned a lot too.
ed.- per another post, i didn't realize that Grayson had subbed out during part of that time, i thought he as on the floor the whole time.

budwom
03-01-2017, 07:57 AM
Given our fatigue at the end of the game (K mentioned this) and FSU's relentless attacking of the rim, I might've hoped that we'd steal a few
minutes playing zone with Giles or Bolden on the floor (just a few), but I know better.

jv001
03-01-2017, 08:05 AM
He came in the 2nd half when we were up 19, and he left the game with ~4 minutes to go and we were up 11. I'm not saying he was solely responsible for that -8, but his already not-amazing defense was compromised even more by his ankle issues and he just couldn't defend their aggressive drives to the hoop. Granted, neither could Luke who got burned a lot too.
ed.- per another post, i didn't realize that Grayson had subbed out during part of that time, i thought he as on the floor the whole time.

Grayson did make one great defensive play when he went up, grabbed an FSU pass and he was fouled on the play. Maybe someone that attended the game can comment more on the play. It happened so fast that I couldn't see exactly what occurred. It's a shame that Grayson has had this injury marred season. Praying for quick healing by Saturday. GoDuke!

TKG
03-01-2017, 08:12 AM
Given our fatigue at the end of the game (K mentioned this) and FSU's relentless attacking of the rim, I might've hoped that we'd steal a few
minutes playing zone with Giles or Bolden on the floor (just a few), but I know better.

Maybe will be fortunate and only play teams like UVA the rest of the season. Perhaps we can avoid teams that play up-tempo. :p

flyingdutchdevil
03-01-2017, 08:15 AM
1) Frank Jackson is the new Grayson Allen. He is a solid shooter. He is insanely explosive. And opponents don't know what to do with him. Jackson was magnificent last night, and he's making it look easy. I think what separates Jackson from Allen is two-fold: 1) Jackson is already a better defender. I don't think Allen is a good defender, so it can't be hard for Jackson to surpass him on that front. 2) Allen is a more consistent 3pt shooter. While Jackson is shooting 39% from deep on the year, I feel that he either sinks it or wildly misses (ie airballs) the 3pt shot. Grayson is a much proven shooter, although he took a step back this year.

2) Grayson Allen is not Grayson Allen. No driving. Poor shooting. Atrocious defense. Grayson is clearly injured. But, for now, that's okay because we have Frank Jackson. So, Allen, please rest. A lot. Cus we'll need you down the stretch.

3) Matt Jones had another Matt Jones-y game. Unbelievable defense. Terrible shooting night (2-9). I love this dude. He makes me smile, even when he plays poorly on the offensive end. You know what you're getting from Matt Jones on defense, but offense is always a surprise.

4) Is Amile back? He had his best offensive game in a while. Dare I say that we have our 4th option back on offense? God, I hope so.

5) I don't think Giles will ever live up to any of the expectations, even if recovering from injury. A ton of posters believe Giles would be averaging upwards of 10 points by this point. It ain't happening. I think it's a mixture between Amile finally healthy, Tatum 10x better at the 4 than the 3, Coach K's ridiculously short rotations, and probably Giles not improving as much as the coaching staff would like. The truth is that the Giles/Amile frontcourt clogs everything up, and neither has range to spread the floor (Amile surely doesn't. Giles may, but he doesn't use it often). I do hope Giles stays another year because I'd love to see what he can really do against college players. But that ain't happening.

6) Bring on Kerlina. And make sure they go to hell.

Spanarkel
03-01-2017, 08:52 AM
As posted on the Duke MBBall twitter site, Jayson is now third in Duke history with 6 such games, behind only Shane(8) and Grant(7). Impressive!

Channing
03-01-2017, 08:58 AM
Grayson did make one great defensive play when he went up, grabbed an FSU pass and he was fouled on the play. Maybe someone that attended the game can comment more on the play. It happened so fast that I couldn't see exactly what occurred. It's a shame that Grayson has had this injury marred season. Praying for quick healing by Saturday. GoDuke!

I thought it was the FSU player coming off a PnR with the Duke big (Amile?) hedging hard. The FSU player tried to make a quick dump off to his rolling teammate but Grayson got up and stole the pass.

also, I noticed Matt seemed to really hurt his hand. It looked like he had taped fingers and may have reinjured them at some point, and almost took himself out of an offensive possession at one point trying to deal with it. Hope he is ok.

rsvman
03-01-2017, 09:13 AM
Congrats to the seniors! Amile and Matt are warriors. Coach K's hugs with those two brought a slight tear to my eye. You could see the love and respect there.

I thought we executed pretty well overall. A little rough on the offensive end for the first 10 minutes or so but FSU is huge and played tough D. But taken together with the Miami game, I thought it showed real learning and progress. I'm stoked for Saturday and to see what these guys can do over the next few weeks.

Side note: I was disappointed as hell to see 6 pages of whining and complaining within two hours of the Miami loss followed by just 2.5 pages (to this point) of generally cautious praise mixed with continued criticism after last night's great win. I don't get it. What does this board want? The season is nearly at a close. I urge some of you to try to enjoy what's left. For your sake and for that of the rest of the board.

I must spread some comments around....yada yada yada.

People only notice their shoes when they pinch their feet, I guess. But a comfortable, supportive, functional pair of shoes is a great, great thing. It is crazy how many more responses a thread gets when the team loses than it does when they win.


I hope that will not be the case after we beat the Cheats on Saturday. :cool:

Dukehky
03-01-2017, 09:14 AM
Ummm....he was awesome the last time we played UNC. Arguably the most valuable player that night. And if I recall correctly, that was the fourth game in a row in which he had played really well. Those games occurred after the turf toe but before the sprain.

So yeah, I guess I would also say "how quickly people forget." It wasn't two years ago. It was this.freaking.month.

Oh, and by the way,he also averaged over 20 points a game for the entire season sandwiched in between that "phenomenal 8-minute stretch" and the beginning of this season. (Insert favorite rolling eyes emoji here.)

What in the world does that have to do with his playing poorly over the last few games? You just proved my point. I said that there were more recent examples than the natty 2 years ago that he did good things. So, thanks!

Newton_14
03-01-2017, 09:14 AM
1) Frank Jackson is the new Grayson Allen. He is a solid shooter. He is insanely explosive. And opponents don't know what to do with him. Jackson was magnificent last night, and he's making it look easy. I think what separates Jackson from Allen is two-fold: 1) Jackson is already a better defender. I don't think Allen is a good defender, so it can't be hard for Jackson to surpass him on that front. 2) Allen is a more consistent 3pt shooter. While Jackson is shooting 39% from deep on the year, I feel that he either sinks it or wildly misses (ie airballs) the 3pt shot. Grayson is a much proven shooter, although he took a step back this year.

2) Grayson Allen is not Grayson Allen. No driving. Poor shooting. Atrocious defense. Grayson is clearly injured. But, for now, that's okay because we have Frank Jackson. So, Allen, please rest. A lot. Cus we'll need you down the stretch.

3) Matt Jones had another Matt Jones-y game. Unbelievable defense. Terrible shooting night (2-9). I love this dude. He makes me smile, even when he plays poorly on the offensive end. You know what you're getting from Matt Jones on defense, but offense is always a surprise.

4) Is Amile back? He had his best offensive game in a while. Dare I say that we have our 4th option back on offense? God, I hope so.

5) I don't think Giles will ever live up to any of the expectations, even if recovering from injury. A ton of posters believe Giles would be averaging upwards of 10 points by this point. It ain't happening. I think it's a mixture between Amile finally healthy, Tatum 10x better at the 4 than the 3, Coach K's ridiculously short rotations, and probably Giles not improving as much as the coaching staff would like. The truth is that the Giles/Amile frontcourt clogs everything up, and neither has range to spread the floor (Amile surely doesn't. Giles may, but he doesn't use it often). I do hope Giles stays another year because I'd love to see what he can really do against college players. But that ain't happening.

6) Bring on Kerlina. And make sure they go to hell.

Agree on a lot of this, but the defensive comments on Allen and Jackson are just wrong imo. Frank has struggled on defense all year, especially with regards to team defense an rotations. Kennard has been very poor with on ball defense all year as well. Love both kids but they both have defensive flaws that they need to work on. All those blow bys for layups last night were 99.% of the time against kids not named Allen. Even on the gimpy ankle Grayson was no worse than either of them on defense last night. A fully healthy Allen is better than both in Duke's defense. My two cents...


I just rewatched the 2nd half again to confirm a few things. PFR was correct on both of his points and actually you could argue he was off by one point both times. When Grayson came in the first time it was in between 1 of 2 FSU FT's. When he walked onto the floor we were up 18, but the second FT which Allen had nothing to do with, went in making our lead 17 when Grayson actually starts play. When he checked back out of the game we were up 17. The second time he came in we were up 13 and when he checked out we were up 13. The 3rd time he checked in it was again in between FSU FT's with 2:23 left. When he walked onto the floor we were up 9 at 71-62, and the 2nd FT went in to cut it to 8. So he started play up 8. When he checked out at the 0:41.7 mark, we were up 10. He came back in with 20.9 seconds left and we were up 9 at 74-65, and again it was in between FT's, this time Luke at the line, and Luke misses the 2nd FT. So up 9 when Grayson starts play. At that point, we sub in Pags and have all guards on the floor. FSU gets two garbage baskets and the final ends up 75-70. That stretch was the only time we lost points during the stretch Grayson was on the floor.

Also, as PFR noted, in the second half FSU never had the ball down less than 10 until that 20.9 second mark, and that only happened because Luke missed the 2nd FT. FSU has the ball down 9, 20.9 seconds left and Bacon hits a 3. Jackson then makes 1 of 2 FT's, and we concede a layup at the buzzer by Bacon to allow the final margin to be 5 instead of 7.

kAzE
03-01-2017, 09:18 AM
As posted on the Duke MBBall twitter site, Jayson is now third in Duke history with 6 such games, behind only Shane(8) and Grant(7). Impressive!

Wow that's amazing! And it's even more unbelievable when you consider that he's only played 22 games, compared to 146 for Shane and 129 for Grant. Jayson is going to be a really good 2 way player in the NBA, and one of the guys who GMs absolutely covet. I still expect Lonzo Ball to be the #1 pick, but I wouldn't be shocked if Jayson went #1, either. Talented point guards are everywhere. 6'9" guys who can defend, shoot, pass, rebound, and handle the ball aren't too common.

BandAlum83
03-01-2017, 09:31 AM
This is not true. FSU cut the lead to 8 (64-56) with 6:30 left and then Kennard hit a very tough 3 pointer to push the lead back to 11. It wasn't a great shot to take, but he made it. As another poster noted, that was the play of the game and I agree.

For the life of me I don't know why we don't play a little zone from time to time. Especially when our bench is so thin and we clearly could not stop them from driving to the basket in the last 10 minutes. We did it quite a bit in 2015 and that worked out okay. It would hide Kennard's defensive weakness and allow Jefferson to play even more of a middle linebacker/communicator role on defense.

Your post doesn't refute that which you say in untrue. In your example, FSU possesed the ball down 10 and hit a shot to cut it to 8, at which time they didn't possess the ball any longer. Duke did.

The next time they possessed the ball they were down 11.

FSU made a run and Duke didn't allow them to ever get close until garbage time. They didn't "almost blow a 19 point lead.".

You must be confused with the Vanderbilt / Kentucky game.

duketaylor
03-01-2017, 09:41 AM
"6'9" guys who can defend, shoot, pass, rebound, and handle the ball aren't too common."

That description fits Magic. As in Johnson.

CDu
03-01-2017, 09:44 AM
That's kind of hard to do when you win by 5.

FSU had several possessions where they were under 10pts, but Duke seemed to always have an answer.

No, they didn't have any possessions under 10 until 20.9 seconds left. They had just 2 total possessions under 10 down the stretch of the game (down 9 with 20 seconds left and down 6 with 6 seconds left).

There were 3 other times in the last 7 minutes in which FSU got the lead under 10 points. But we always had the ball at those times, and we always scored to make it 10+ again once FSU got the ball back. It wasn't until the final seconds that they actually had the ball with the lead less than 10. Just like pfrduke said.

flyingdutchdevil
03-01-2017, 09:45 AM
Wow that's amazing! And it's even more unbelievable when you consider that he's only played 22 games, compared to 146 for Shane and 129 for Grant. Jayson is going to be a really good 2 way player in the NBA, and one of the guys who GMs absolutely covet. I still expect Lonzo Ball to be the #1 pick, but I wouldn't be shocked if Jayson went #1, either. Talented point guards are everywhere. 6'9" guys who can defend, shoot, pass, rebound, and handle the ball aren't too common.

Fultz, my friend, Fultz. Ball is a complete 1-way player (and by that, I mean he's complete on offense and non-existent on defense. He'll make Irving look like Lowry on defense).

I think PGs will rule the early lottery, but I would take Tatum as the first wing off the table (moreso than Josh Jackson, Monk, or Isaacs). I love Tatum's two-way game and the way that he plays. He's a leaner Paul Pierce who I think will be a better shooter but worse post-up player.

BandAlum83
03-01-2017, 09:49 AM
This was a hard fought game against a really good and deep FSU team. I know that's cliche, but I do want to make sure we do get postings after a win, not just a loss

Actually, we played like we all know we can in this one. The Miami game is simply an outlier. 50 points? I really don't even understand how we did that.

Outliers will happen. I am glad it didn't happen in one of the post season single elimination tourneys. No more outliers!

I do think this team has enough weapons to beat Carolina again.

Go Duke! 9F

BandAlum83
03-01-2017, 09:52 AM
Those missed FT's are like TOs when they're on the front end. Expect better from a 5 year senior, especially on the second time to the charity stripe and late in the game.

I know Grayson is not a 100%, but he knows too. He has to give that ball up in transition to someone that can make a play. He's blown 6 of these now in the past 2 games.

The rest of my post was positive. Did you stop reading? Please do better!

"I don't often flame posters, but when I do...."

He is the most interesting poster on DBR

niveklaen
03-01-2017, 09:58 AM
These refs actually called traveling. I think the FSU fans have the same compliant. Some might have been bogus not sure but glad to see them actually not allow 3 or 4 steps.

SoCall

Moreso than the traveling calls, which at least got called both ways, I was really annoyed with the two charging calls on Tatum. The FSU defenders were not set. Tatum did not lower his shoulder. Tatum did not extend his forearm to push off. They should both be either no calls or blocks on the defense.

tbyers11
03-01-2017, 10:06 AM
Moreso than the traveling calls, which at least got called both ways, I was really annoyed with the two charging calls on Tatum. The FSU defenders were not set. Tatum did not lower his shoulder. Tatum did not extend his forearm to push off. They should both be either no calls or blocks on the defense.

The second Tatum charge was horribly wrong regardless of whether the defender was set. As you can see in this screenshot (https://t.co/vtUlQkDnYZ) (DBR says the file is too big to show), the defender was well within the restricted area.

That is a pretty blatant miss by the refs

BandAlum83
03-01-2017, 10:08 AM
Moreso than the traveling calls, which at least got called both ways, I was really annoyed with the two charging calls on Tatum. The FSU defenders were not set. Tatum did not lower his shoulder. Tatum did not extend his forearm to push off. They should both be either no calls or blocks on the defense.

I have noticed over the past few games that seemingly as Tatum becomes more established as a start, he's been called for fewer charges.

To me, I'm not sure he's adjusted his play much, rather, he is getting the benefit of the doubt more. Anyone else seeing this?

Maybe he's just being more selective about when he drives and not putting himself in as many opportunities to charge? Whatever it is, it seems to be working. (and no, I haven't analyzed his stats on fouls / offensive fouls over the season. It's the eye test)

BluDvlsN1
03-01-2017, 10:15 AM
First, had a fun time watching with FerryFor50 in Cameron! This was my only live game of the season, and what a fun one it was!

Gotta start with the seniors. Jefferson brought it in a big way. His 14 and 11 were huge. But just as huge was Matt Jones, who locked up Bacon until FSU went small and forced Jones onto Rathan-Mayes (who Jones blanked down the stretch). I will miss both of these guys next year.

That being said, two of the freshmen were also monsters. Jayson Tatum was a stud tonight: 15 points, 9 rebounds, 4 assists, 2 steals, and 2 blocks. And frankly his defensive stats seem like an underestimate. And Frank Jackson just exploded on the scene. There was a stretch in the second half where he repeatedly torched a pair of All-ACC defenders (Isaacs and Rathan-Mayes). Jackson looked like the best scorer guard on the court in a game loaded with NBA talent. This was a big coming-out party for him. If he can play the way he has the last two games, our ceiling rises.

Kennard was his usual crafty self. Just a ho-hum 17 and 6. The game just looks easy for him.

I commend Allen for giving it a go, but he was clearly still very limited on that ankle. In a loosely-called (physicality-wise) game, it is tough on a guy with a bum wheel. Still, we probably don't win without Allen giving our starters just enough rest.

FSU made things interesting late by going small. I don't think we handled it well, perhaps in part due to fatigue. But thankfully we had enough in the tank.

Great win. Now we get a chance to sweep UNC. Go Duke!

Great game to be at for Senior Night for Amile, Matt and Nick,they're ALL champions in my book.

Can't spork you, but pretty spot on from my point of view.

I could just as easily just say, Yep what he said up there,

Regarding the freshman, starting with Jackson, when he got hot it was electric and importantt to be sure.

At times he tends push the individual effort to far and overplay,somewhat, like an early Quinn Cook.

K subbed him a couple of times early, that appeared to be the reason, 1 time, K stopped him and made comments.

I suspect, It may have been either let the game come to you more, or keep shooting and pressing the action,
Either way, man did he get it going, CIS, was rockin it loud at that point.

Your comments on Tatum I feel were spot on, his imprint on the game from beginning to end were unmistakable,
on both ends of the court. Exceptional overall performance and game.

in the MOTM, CameronBornAndBred, stated in part..Can't Spork you either, I agree with your analysis.

"I went with Tatum as my MOTM. For me, he had the stronger game across both halves, and was just one board shy of a double-double."

Quoting OZZIE4DUKE, AND Graduating senior Nick Pagliuca in closing his senior night comments
GTHC,GTH..

Let's get the Regular season sweep...

Billy Dat
03-01-2017, 10:18 AM
Side note: I was disappointed as hell to see 6 pages of whining and complaining within two hours of the Miami loss followed by just 2.5 pages (to this point) of generally cautious praise mixed with continued criticism after last night's great win. I don't get it. What does this board want? The season is nearly at a close. I urge some of you to try to enjoy what's left. For your sake and for that of the rest of the board.

While I typically stop short of telling people how to feel, I agree with your disappointed reaction to the general lack of enthusiasm for last night's win. I thought it was HUGE! FSU is a legit team that, prior to last night, was still in the hunt for a #1 seed. The ACC is insanely deep this year and all of our road games have been against the best W-L teams, and most ACC teams have pretty bad road records, especially against those same teams. Syracuse and Miami have been really tough at home in league. FSU has struggled on the road...and we, therefore, took care of business in fairly convincing fashion. I feel like we are gradually cleaning up the freshman-style mistakes and the defense shows fitful improvement of a sort. After last night, ESPN's John Gasaway is suddenly picking us as an upset winner of the ACC Tournament. That doesn't mean it will happen, but, in general, I think our own fans have been harder on the team for last weeks 0-2 than the national media. Today is MARCH, and while we aren't the juggernaut we all hoped for, I can only quote Norman Dale's words to Shooter when I say to everyone:

"Hey, we're coming together as a team. With K, all the pistons are firing. We got ten games to play, right? We're gonna be a tough team to beat. Now you come along for the ride, OK?"

FerryFor50
03-01-2017, 10:26 AM
The second Tatum charge was horribly wrong regardless of whether the defender was set. As you can see in this screenshot (https://t.co/vtUlQkDnYZ) (DBR says the file is too big to show), the defender was well within the restricted area.

That is a pretty blatant miss by the refs

I said the same to CDu at the game in real time. That's how blatantly bad the call was.

El_Diablo
03-01-2017, 10:46 AM
Great game to be at for Senior Night for Amile, Matt and Nick,they're ALL champions in my book.

Not just your book...those guys have the rings from 2015 to prove it.

kAzE
03-01-2017, 10:48 AM
Fultz, my friend, Fultz. Ball is a complete 1-way player (and by that, I mean he's complete on offense and non-existent on defense. He'll make Irving look like Lowry on defense).

I think PGs will rule the early lottery, but I would take Tatum as the first wing off the table (moreso than Josh Jackson, Monk, or Isaacs). I love Tatum's two-way game and the way that he plays. He's a leaner Paul Pierce who I think will be a better shooter but worse post-up player.

I don't know that Ball's defense can't be fixed . . . he hasn't exactly had great defensive coaches. No one is going to laud Steve Alford's committment to defense, and if you've seen any extended tape of LaMelo Ball's 92 point game, you know Lonzo wasn't playing much D in high school, either.

A guy as quick and as long (6'7" wingspan) as Lonzo Ball should be able to become a passable (maybe even good) defender in the league, with good coaching. You think if Brad Stevens drafted Lonzo, he'd still be a horrible defender? No freakin way.

I'm probably sleeping a little bit on Fultz, especially since I've barely seen him play lately (and probably won't get to see any of him in the NCAAT), but shouldn't Washington be a little bit more competitive if he's really that good? I know he doesn't really have a ton of talent around him, but I usually look for really good NBA prospects to make their teammates better, like Lonzo Ball does. This was the same reason I was never sold on Ben Simmons. The jury is still out on Simmons, but I'm not extremely optimistic about his potential to become a superstar.

Maybe I just don't know enough about Fultz, or maybe his team/coaching is just too bad to salvage. I'll need to look into him more as the draft approaches. Too bad we won't get to see him in the postseason.

Still, the lowest I see Jayson Tatum going is 3rd. I can't see any reason you would take Dennis Smith, another undersized and defensively challenged point guard over Tatum. He's oozing with potential. He could be another one of those Kawhi/Paul George/Jimmy Butler type wings who can do it all. Those guys are about as valuable as it gets in the NBA.

Doria
03-01-2017, 10:51 AM
I have noticed over the past few games that seemingly as Tatum becomes more established as a start, he's been called for fewer charges.

To me, I'm not sure he's adjusted his play much, rather, he is getting the benefit of the doubt more. Anyone else seeing this?

Maybe he's just being more selective about when he drives and not putting himself in as many opportunities to charge? Whatever it is, it seems to be working. (and no, I haven't analyzed his stats on fouls / offensive fouls over the season. It's the eye test)

I think it's a combination of the two things you mention. I do think he's adjusted his game (actually quite a lot), but I also think there is some perception that works in his favor of him being less likely to charge. The second point is like the reverse of Grayson, where he needs to get held up at knifepoint in a dark alley to get a foul...

Agree with bud that it might have been nice to see if Giles could've held down the middle at the end. While he does still have a freshman propensity to foul, he's been solid at the end of games.

Also, I forget who posted it, but that is so awesome about Jayson's stats!

Such a good win. I didn't approach this with too much optimism, but it was (mostly) so fun to watch! Love the guys, and kind of hate thinking it's the last time we'll see this team in Cameron. But I'm so happy they went out with a win!

BluDvlsN1
03-01-2017, 10:54 AM
Not just your book...those guys have the rings from 2015 to prove it.

When your right your right..

brumby041
03-01-2017, 10:56 AM
What I learned from Vitale last night:

It is good, no, really good, to recruit basketball players that can make shots.

Dick will be attending a spring training baseball game today.

Smokey Robinson tomorrow.

Blake Shelton on Saturday!

Oh, and Duke beat FSU in Men's basketball. (He did manage to notice at least that much about the game going on in front of him while sharing his personal calendar with the world and trying to get a local HS kid recruiting looks.)


So ready for him to retire!

Doria
03-01-2017, 10:58 AM
What I learned from Vitale last night:

It is good, no, really good, to recruit basketball players that can make shots.

Dick will be attending a spring training baseball game today.

Smokey Robinson tomorrow.

Blake Shelton on Saturday!

Oh, and Duke beat FSU in Men's basketball. (He did manage to notice at least that much about the game going on in front of him while sharing his personal calendar with the world and trying to get a local HS kid recruiting looks.)


So ready for him to retire!

You forgot his point that you need your legs to play basketball! How could you have missed that observation?!

Neals384
03-01-2017, 11:00 AM
Side note: I was disappointed as hell to see 6 pages of whining and complaining within two hours of the Miami loss followed by just 2.5 pages (to this point) of generally cautious praise mixed with continued criticism after last night's great win. I don't get it. What does this board want? The season is nearly at a close. I urge some of you to try to enjoy what's left. For your sake and for that of the rest of the board.

What does this board want? Ga Tech games every time! 82 - 50 on Saturday. Miracle cures for ankles and feet. An 11 game winning streak. ACCT champion. Natty #6.

We don't ask for much.

kAzE
03-01-2017, 11:04 AM
What I learned from Vitale last night:

It is good, no, really good, to recruit basketball players that can make shots.

Dick will be attending a spring training baseball game today.

Smokey Robinson tomorrow.

Blake Shelton on Saturday!

Oh, and Duke beat FSU in Men's basketball. (He did manage to notice at least that much about the game going on in front of him while sharing his personal calendar with the world and trying to get a local HS kid recruiting looks.)


So ready for him to retire!

I'll still take him over a lot of other "analysts" we've had this year. (coughcoughcorycoughalexandercough)

BandAlum83
03-01-2017, 11:11 AM
What I learned from Vitale last night:

It is good, no, really good, to recruit basketball players that can make shots.

Dick will be attending a spring training baseball game today.

Smokey Robinson tomorrow.

Blake Shelton on Saturday!

Oh, and Duke beat FSU in Men's basketball. (He did manage to notice at least that much about the game going on in front of him while sharing his personal calendar with the world and trying to get a local HS kid recruiting looks.)


So ready for him to retire!

Don't forget his B&W picture with Sinatra!

sagegrouse
03-01-2017, 11:34 AM
I have noticed over the past few games that seemingly as Tatum becomes more established as a start, he's been called for fewer charges.

To me, I'm not sure he's adjusted his play much, rather, he is getting the benefit of the doubt more. Anyone else seeing this?

Maybe he's just being more selective about when he drives and not putting himself in as many opportunities to charge? Whatever it is, it seems to be working. (and no, I haven't analyzed his stats on fouls / offensive fouls over the season. It's the eye test)

Well, he looks a lot smoother, which lead to fewer fouls called.

WRT to the end-of-game points by FSU: this team was nonchalant at the end when it didn't matter. So be it, although I prefer something different.

Saratoga2
03-01-2017, 01:53 PM
What I learned from Vitale last night:

It is good, no, really good, to recruit basketball players that can make shots.

Dick will be attending a spring training baseball game today.

Smokey Robinson tomorrow.

Blake Shelton on Saturday!

Oh, and Duke beat FSU in Men's basketball. (He did manage to notice at least that much about the game going on in front of him while sharing his personal calendar with the world and trying to get a local HS kid recruiting looks.)


So ready for him to retire!

Amen to that brother.

kAzE
03-01-2017, 02:17 PM
I might be imagining things, but does anyone else think Luke is starting to look a bit tired? He has seemed a bit off in the past 2 games, being a little sloppier with his ball handling and not finishing plays that he normally would.

He's played ALOT of minutes this year. I'm hoping this is just a mini-cold streak, and he goes right back to dominating against the Cheats, but I'm also concerned that he's just freakin tired from playing 40 minutes every game.

budwom
03-01-2017, 02:22 PM
I might be imagining things, but does anyone else think Luke is starting to look a bit tired? He has seemed a bit off in the past 2 games, being a little sloppier with his ball handling and not finishing plays that he normally would.

He's played ALOT of minutes this year. I'm hoping this is just a mini-cold streak, and he goes right back to dominating against the Cheats, but I'm also concerned that he's just freakin tired from playing 40 minutes every game.

Fatigue could be part of it, but I think the quicker the opposing guards, the less good he looks....

Pghdukie
03-01-2017, 02:22 PM
Any mention of last night being Bob Harris' last game at CIS ?

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
03-01-2017, 02:25 PM
You forgot his point that you need your legs to play basketball! How could you have missed that observation?!

I appreciated his analysis of how some players have a "winner's mentality." Wish I had known that coming up in rec league. Would have been a game changer for me.

Seriously, the amount of relevant analysis that he offers is infinitesimal.

Kfanarmy
03-01-2017, 02:31 PM
Anybody else think we were whistled for several bogus traveling calls tonight? I was not happy. If I had the game on tape, I'd re-watch it and then call the ACC office. I think this year's been terrible for ACC hoops and NFL football for officiating. Just my opinion. And I'm strict.

It wasn't just travelling calls. I realize each official has his own focus, but there were some touch fouls called on FSU shots that were simply phantom calls, made out of position and seemingly anticipated.

Kedsy
03-01-2017, 02:32 PM
I might be imagining things, but does anyone else think Luke is starting to look a bit tired? He has seemed a bit off in the past 2 games, being a little sloppier with his ball handling and not finishing plays that he normally would.

To me, he's looked a little like he's trying to do too much. Without Grayson to draw the opponent's best perimeter defender and space the floor so that Luke can get optimal (i.e., open) shots, it's a lot harder for Luke to do what he does.

Ultrarunner
03-01-2017, 03:03 PM
I might be imagining things, but does anyone else think Luke is starting to look a bit tired? He has seemed a bit off in the past 2 games, being a little sloppier with his ball handling and not finishing plays that he normally would.

He's played ALOT of minutes this year. I'm hoping this is just a mini-cold streak, and he goes right back to dominating against the Cheats, but I'm also concerned that he's just freakin tired from playing 40 minutes every game.

I think both he and Matt are playing more minutes than are optimum. Hopefully, Grayson will get back to healthy (enough) so both of them can get some rest.

JayZee
03-01-2017, 03:20 PM
I'm surprised that there hasn't been more noise about Jayson's significantly improved vision and passing.

In the last few games, he's had some great looks/assists. This development has made him and our team that much better. He is really a complete player.

Kedsy
03-01-2017, 03:30 PM
I'm surprised that there hasn't been more noise about Jayson's significantly improved vision and passing.

In the last few games, he's had some great looks/assists. This development has made him and our team that much better. He is really a complete player.

In Jayson's last five games, he had 14 assists and 13 turnovers. In the five games before that, he had 12 assists and 13 turnovers. Not that much difference in my mind.

Devilwin
03-01-2017, 03:38 PM
Props to Amile for a great game, and for hanging around his entire career. Same to Uncle Matt. We will miss them for sure. I only wish we had developed the bench a bit more, especially Jack White. He could have taken Grayson's spot and let Allen rest that bad ankle. The kid can shoot, and I believe we wouldn't have lost a beat with him in there. Grayson now is a shadow of himself, and really is not helping us at all. Cannot say enough about Frank's effort last night, truly spectacular.

One more thing. Old school fan here, so y'all will excuse me if I do not get all jacked up about how these one and dones will do in the draft. Sorry, but although I appreciate them coming to Duke, it's like say, In Jayson's case, we've seen him grow into one of the best players in the country, but when this season is over, he's gone. And I know we won our fifth title with Freshmen oads as the main thrust. But if you'll look, it's usually veteran teams that have played together that win titles.
I realize that's the way it is done now, but I don't have to like it. Used to be scholar athletes came to campus to learn and play ball. To me, all these guys are doing is using the school as a showcase for the stinking NBA...
That's my rant..
Beat Carolina! Again!

jimmymax
03-01-2017, 04:34 PM
I too miss the veteran teams. Nothing better than watching players develop over four years -- and if lucky be rewarded with the game's top prize.

Great to see Amile bounce back and have a great last home game. If that was 70% let's hope he heals all the way by tourney time. All healing vibes to Grayson too.

IMO K needs to come up with a new defensive scheme (i.e. dumb it down) so the multiple OAD freshmen Duke recruits can deal. We can look so bad at times.

Re depth and the perennial 7-man rotation: isn't it amazing what the guys on the bench can do if you (are forced to) play them?

rasputin
03-01-2017, 05:02 PM
One of the things that concerned me about FSU was their collective height. I thought our boys did a great job blocking and otherwise hindering FSU inside shooting. And they held their own on the glass as well (each team had 38 rebounds).

CDu
03-01-2017, 05:06 PM
One of the things that concerned me about FSU was their collective height. I thought our boys did a great job blocking and otherwise hindering FSU inside shooting. And they held their own on the glass as well (each team had 38 rebounds).

This isn't your typical FSU, which doesn't actually play a terribly big team. In fact, they are at their best when they go super small (with Isaacs at C and the 6'6" Mann or Bacon at PF. Their two really big guys (Ojo and Koumadje) are awful. Their best center options are the 6'9" Smith and the 6'10" stringbean Isaacs.

Utley
03-01-2017, 06:44 PM
Some random thoughts:

I thought FSU was pretty cocky pre-game - I think they were overconfident after beating us at home w/o Amile. Nice to see them taken down a notch.

Loving me some Frank Jackson these days. I think he is a better defender than some are describing. He is the one guard we have that can stop the dribble drive penetration - doesn't always do it but its in the repertoire. He still has room to grow - he was on the wrong end of the few of those 2nd half transition buckets - he was somewhat in position but couldn't figure out how to stop it. I'd like to see him try and draw a charge like Matt did late in the game.

I don't think I saw this referenced yet - a couple of Jayson's drives in the last ten minutes were just jaw dropping. We should all also savor his free throw shooting.

I see Florida State as a team of NBA quality athletes who can't shoot. Seeing how difficult they were able to make life for Luke had me wondering about his game at the next level. Grayson looked even worse but I think not fair to judge him - clearly not 100%

Some strange coaching decisions by K last night. I couldn't believe when we tried to press them for a series or two - it just plays right into their game.

The time out after Frank went nuts they played Outta Your Mind by Lil Jon at Cameron. I don't remember hearing that as part of the regular routine - is it reserved for special moments like Frank going beserk?

Any feedback from Bamba on his trip? He came over to see with the Crazies - and I think it was Adam Jones from the O's. He seemed somewhat reserved - do most recruits play it cool or could that be an omen?

So happy to see Amile and Matt have such great games in their last game at Cameron. Champions on and off the court - so glad they chose Duke.

Tonight's game had me reflecting on the "enjoy the ride" post from the weekend. This was game 6 for me - Kansas, Florida, Mich St, G Tech, UNC and Fl State. 5-1 and all remarkable games. We've had some painful losses and the road has not been all that friendly but putting expectations aside, there's been a lot of special moments.

FerryFor50
03-01-2017, 08:16 PM
In Jayson's last five games, he had 14 assists and 13 turnovers. In the five games before that, he had 12 assists and 13 turnovers. Not that much difference in my mind.

Tatum's increased passing doesn't necessarily translate into assists. He's seemingly been a more willing passer and isn't forcing as much on offense.

Kedsy
03-01-2017, 08:36 PM
Tatum's increased passing doesn't necessarily translate into assists. He's seemingly been a more willing passer and isn't forcing as much on offense.

Maybe. He's certainly more successful/efficient than he was during our first losing streak, but my "eye test" tells me the last two games he was forcing more than he was during the winning streak.

DukieInBrasil
03-01-2017, 08:37 PM
Tatum's increased passing doesn't necessarily translate into assists. He's seemingly been a more willing passer and isn't forcing as much on offense.

i agree, and started a thread saying as much. I readily admit that the stats don't back it up. The issue wasn't necessarily about passing the ball ever or turning it over by passing, but what types of shots he was taking, how long he held the ball before doing something with it, whether he was passing to someone making a move to get open or just to get rid of it, moving the ball as part of the offense etc. So a lot of the passing he's doing now isn't getting him assists but it seems to be within the offense. He made one really nice pass to Amile cutting to the rim last night, for example. He also had one really terrible turnover when he tried to pass thru the defense to the top of the key. I'm not saying he's a great passer or that it is major part of what makes him a special player, but he does seem to be getting better at it.

Furniture
03-01-2017, 08:51 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/DukeMBB/status/836972824094965760/video/1

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
03-02-2017, 06:38 AM
One of the things that concerned me about FSU was their collective height. I thought our boys did a great job blocking and otherwise hindering FSU inside shooting. And they held their own on the glass as well (each team had 38 rebounds).

We denied the ball, collapsed when they got inside, forced turnovers, and crashed the glass.

We took them out of their game to the point that Hamilton (not the cool one) went to small ball to fight back in.

That's the definition of a well-executed game plan.