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pfrduke
02-27-2017, 11:35 AM
The regular season championship could be wrapped up as early as tonight - already guaranteed a share of the title, one more UNC win and they'll take the league outright. Here's hoping UVA and then Duke prevent that from happening.

The battle for the double-bye involves five teams for three spots. Louisville, FSU, and ND have the inside track, although it's guaranteed that at least one of the Cardinals or Irish will fall to 6 losses after their matchup Saturday. The most teams we could have in a tie for 2nd is 4, and it would take an awful lot to break right for that to happen (UL loses at Wake and beats ND, Duke wins out, and then either FSU beats Miami or Miami wins out) - I'm not even going to begin thinking through how the tiebreakers would work in that scenario.

At the bubble end of the standings, we now have 9 teams guaranteed a .500 record or better in conference; I think those 9 teams should all be in, but Syracuse would definitely start to sweat if they do something stupid like lose to Georgia Tech at home this week. Wake and Georgia Tech are the only other teams that can get to .500 and it won't be easy for either. I think one more loss all but eliminates the Jackets; for Wake, a win over Louisville might be enough even if they lose to Virginia Tech and end up 8-10, but I don't think there's any way 7-11 gets it done.

Monday
[9]Virginia (9-7) hosts [3]North Carolina (13-3) (7:00, ESPN)
[42]Virginia Tech (9-7) hosts [29]Miami (10-6) (9:00, ESPN2)

Tuesday
[15]Duke (10-6) hosts [18]Florida State (11-5) (7:00, ESPN)
[77]Georgia Tech (7-9) hosts [72]Pittsburgh (4-12) (9:00, ESPNU)

Wednesday
[34]Clemson (4-12) hosts [105]NC State (4-13) (8:00, ACCN)
[25]Notre Dame (11-5) hosts [164]Boston College (2-14) (8:00, ACCN)
[33]Wake Forest (7-9) hosts [5]Louisville (11-5) (9:00, ACCN)

Thursday and Friday are dark

Saturday
[9]Virginia (9-7) hosts [72]Pittsburgh (4-12) (12:00, ACCN)
[5]Louisville (11-5) hosts [25]Notre Dame (11-5) (2:00, CBS)
[18]Florida State (11-5) hosts [29]Miami (10-6) (4:00, ACCN)
[51]Syracuse (9-8) hosts [77]Georgia Tech (7-9) (4:00, ACCN)
[34]Clemson (4-12) hosts [164]Boston College (2-14) (4:00, ACCN)
[42]Virginia Tech (9-7) hosts [33]Wake Forest (7-9) (4:30, ACCN)
[3]North Carolina (13-3) hosts [15]Duke (10-6) (8:15, ESPN)

CDu
02-27-2017, 12:22 PM
As far as tiebreakers go:

If we somehow win out:
2-way tiebreakers: we would win out over Notre Dame (head-to-head), Miami (due to beating Notre Dame), and FSU (due to beating UNC) and lose to Louisville (head-to-head);
3-way tiebreaker with Louisville and FSU: we'd be the last of the 3 with FSU first and Louisville second;
3-way tiebreaker with Louisville and Miami: we'd be second, with Louisville first;
3-way tiebreaker with Louisville and Notre Dame: we'd be second (winner of Louisville/Notre Dame finale would be first, loser third);
3-way tiebreaker with FSU and Notre Dame: we'd be first (on common opponents 2-1, FSU 2-2, Notre Dame 1-2);
3-way tiebreaker with Miami and Notre Dame: we'd be first (on common opponents 2-1, Notre Dame 1-1, Miami 1-2);
4-way tiebreaker with FSU, Louisville, and Notre Dame: we would be third behind FSU and winner of Louisville/Notre Dame;
No multi-way tiebreakers involving both FSU and Miami are possible in this scenario due to one of them having 7 losses.

If we lose again, we not only close some doors but we introduce the possibility that UVa or Va Tech catch us at 11-7.

If we lose twice, then FSU and Louisville are off the table and we're a mess in the standings at 10-8.

pfrduke
02-27-2017, 12:55 PM
As far as tiebreakers go:

If we somehow win out:
2-way tiebreakers: we would win out over Notre Dame (head-to-head), Miami (due to beating Notre Dame), and FSU (due to beating UNC) and lose to Louisville (head-to-head);
3-way tiebreaker with Louisville and FSU: we'd be the last of the 3 with FSU first and Louisville second;
3-way tiebreaker with Louisville and Miami: we'd be second, with Louisville first;
3-way tiebreaker with Louisville and Notre Dame: we'd be second (winner of Louisville/Notre Dame finale would be first, loser third);
3-way tiebreaker with FSU and Notre Dame: we'd be first (on common opponents 2-1, FSU 2-2, Notre Dame 1-2);
3-way tiebreaker with Miami and Notre Dame: we'd be first (on common opponents 2-1, Notre Dame 1-1, Miami 1-2);
4-way tiebreaker with FSU, Louisville, and Notre Dame: we would be third behind FSU and winner of Louisville/Notre Dame;
No multi-way tiebreakers involving both FSU and Miami are possible in this scenario due to one of them having 7 losses.

If we lose again, we not only close some doors but we introduce the possibility that UVa or Va Tech catch us at 11-7.

If we lose twice, then FSU and Louisville are off the table and we're a mess in the standings at 10-8.

So if I'm reading this correctly, if we win out, the only way we don't get a double bye is if we end up in a 3-way tie with Louisville and FSU at 12-6, with Notre Dame at 13-5.

There are still paths to a 2 seed, although a lot has to break right, most significant being that Louisville has to lose twice to get them out of tiebreaker scenarios, as we don't come out first in any scenario where the Cardinals are included.

CDu
02-27-2017, 01:18 PM
So if I'm reading this correctly, if we win out, the only way we don't get a double bye is if we end up in a 3-way tie with Louisville and FSU at 12-6, with Notre Dame at 13-5.

That is correct. And since Notre Dame's other (non-Louisville) game is against BC, we need Louisville to beat Notre Dame.


There are still paths to a 2 seed, although a lot has to break right, most significant being that Louisville has to lose twice to get them out of tiebreaker scenarios, as we don't come out first in any scenario where the Cardinals are included.

There aren't really any realistic scenarios which would get us a #2 seed, by virtue of the point above. We'd need Louisville to lose both games (one against Notre Dame) and Notre Dame to lose once (which would have to be against BC). I don't think the latter is likely to happen.

Thankfully, the Louisville/Notre Dame game is at Louisville, so hopefully the Cardinals prevail. That will help us greatly in all of the potential tiebreaker scenarios as Louisville (or FSU if we lose to FSU) would be the biggest headache for us in any tiebreakers.

Basically, as seeding goes, the FSU game and the Louisville/Notre Dame game are the two most important games left. Of course, winning at UNC is ALWAYS of utmost importance. But from a seeding perspective, if we are going to win just one game this week, FSU is the one we would need to win. So let's win both. ;)

In all seriousness, there is a very good chance that we are playing next Wednesday. But winning tomorrow would help mitigate that risk A LOT.

Indoor66
02-27-2017, 01:22 PM
Winning ALWAYS is the cure for standing problems.

pfrduke
02-27-2017, 01:54 PM
That is correct. And since Notre Dame's other (non-Louisville) game is against BC, we need Louisville to beat Notre Dame.

Or Miami to beat FSU, which would do away with a 3-way tiebreak there. We'd end up 4th, behind 13-5 ND and losing a tiebreaker to 12-6 Louisville (but finishing ahead of Miami even if it ended up at 12-6 too).


There aren't really any realistic scenarios which would get us a #2 seed, by virtue of the point above. We'd need Louisville to lose both games (one against Notre Dame) and Notre Dame to lose once (which would have to be against BC). I don't think the latter is likely to happen.

It would just be the icing on this ACC season for BC to upend the Irish in South Bend (where they'll be about an 18-point underdog, give or take). Go Eagles! (but yeah, that's almost certainly not going to happen)


Thankfully, the Louisville/Notre Dame game is at Louisville, so hopefully the Cardinals prevail. That will help us greatly in all of the potential tiebreaker scenarios as Louisville (or FSU if we lose to FSU) would be the biggest headache for us in any tiebreakers.

If we lose to FSU we can stop worrying about tiebreakers with them; they'll be locked into no more than 6 losses and we'll have 7.


Basically, as seeding goes, the FSU game and the Louisville/Notre Dame game are the two most important games left. Of course, winning at UNC is ALWAYS of utmost importance. But from a seeding perspective, if we are going to win just one game this week, FSU is the one we would need to win. So let's win both. ;)

In all seriousness, there is a very good chance that we are playing next Wednesday. But winning tomorrow would help mitigate that risk A LOT.

I think we need both. I would bet that 3 from among FSU, Miami, Notre Dame, and Louisville end up with 6 or fewer losses. Getting the 4-seed with 7 conference losses (where teams like Virginia and Virginia Tech could also end up involved in tiebreakers, muddying the water) seems like a very tall order.

It's nice, in a way - the burden is almost exclusively on us. Win, we are very likely to earn a double bye. Lose, we are very likely not to.

pfrduke
02-27-2017, 07:46 PM
Good half by UVA but I won't start believing unless they're up about 12 with 2 minutes to go. I have no faith in Virginia's offense to generate points in crunch time.

Doria
02-27-2017, 08:17 PM
Good half by UVA but I won't start believing unless they're up about 12 with 2 minutes to go. I have no faith in Virginia's offense to generate points in crunch time.

Seconded, except edited to expand the time frame! However, one step at a time!

Apropos of nothing else, does anyone know how long U of Miami has had that... uh... duck (?) as its secondary mascot? I don't ever recall seeing it before. I wouldn't have noticed it on Saturday, except my roommate asked me about it. Anyhow, just curious.

Rich
02-27-2017, 08:21 PM
Apropos of nothing else, does anyone know how long U of Miami has had that... uh... duck (?) as its secondary mascot? I don't ever recall seeing it before. I wouldn't have noticed it on Saturday, except my roommate asked me about it. Anyhow, just curious.

According to Wiki, 1926, and it's not a duck.

Sebastian the Ibis is the official mascot for the University of Miami. He is an anthropomorphized American white ibis with a Miami Hurricanes football jersey, number 0. The ibis was chosen as Miami's unofficial mascot by Nathan Duncan in 1926 when the school's yearbook chose its name to be "The Ibis."

pfrduke
02-27-2017, 08:22 PM
Seconded, except edited to expand the time frame! However, one step at a time!

Apropos of nothing else, does anyone know how long U of Miami has had that... uh... duck (?) as its secondary mascot? I don't ever recall seeing it before. I wouldn't have noticed it on Saturday, except my roommate asked me about it. Anyhow, just curious.

You mean Sebastian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sebastian_the_Ibis)? A while.

Troublemaker
02-27-2017, 08:43 PM
It's tough to win at UVA. Not every team can do it...

devildeac
02-27-2017, 08:45 PM
Good half by UVA but I won't start believing unless they're up about 12 with 2 minutes to go. I have no faith in Virginia's offense to generate points in crunch time.

Well...

WVDUKEFAN
02-27-2017, 08:48 PM
UVA beats THE CHEATERS by 10!

pfrduke
02-27-2017, 08:48 PM
Well...

They didn't have to generate offense in the traditional sense - it was enough to just miss shots and get rebounds.

Virginia scored 5 points in the last 6:20, so my concern was not unfounded. But UNC scored only 4 in the last 9:26, so that took care of it.

13-8 UVA in the last 10 minutes of the game. Not an offensive masterpiece.

devildeac
02-27-2017, 08:49 PM
And just to think what could have been if those academic miscreants had to play at L'ville. Or f$u. Or Syracuse. Or ND. Sigh.

OldPhiKap
02-27-2017, 08:49 PM
9f. 24/7/365.25

devildeac
02-27-2017, 08:56 PM
They didn't have to generate offense in the traditional sense - it was enough to just miss shots and get rebounds.

Virginia scored 5 points in the last 6:20, so my concern was not unfounded. But UNC scored only 4 in the last 9:26, so that took care of it.

13-8 UVA in the last 10 minutes of the game. Not an offensive masterpiece.

The best offense is a good defense? ;)

I completely understand your point as we've discussed here, especially after the UVa-Miami game where it appeared UVa was content to run 25 seconds off the clock and then just fling it in the general direction of the rim.

Not pretty but I'm sure ecstatic with the UVa defense tonight. Was unc the #1 offense in D1 MBB so far this year? 43 points? Are you kidding me? :D

Dr. Rosenrosen
02-27-2017, 08:57 PM
I've been on a gluten free diet lately. It's been working well. But I can't help myself tonight. I need some starch. Where are you Wheat?

53n206
02-27-2017, 08:58 PM
13-8 UVA in the last 10 minutes of the game. Not an offensive masterpiece.
Anybody remember the first half offensive masterpiece in our last game. 20 minutes.

snowdenscold
02-27-2017, 09:01 PM
13-8 UVA in the last 10 minutes of the game. Not an offensive masterpiece.
Anybody remember the first half offensive masterpiece in our last game. 20 minutes.

Well would have been 15-8 but for that embarrassing wide open dunk miss with about 20 seconds left.

But I'll take a Carolina loss either way!

CDu
02-27-2017, 09:01 PM
UNC is now 0-3 on the road against teams that are at least .500 in conference. They are 1-1 on the road against bubble teams. And they are 4-0 on the road against the bottom feeders. That schedule has masked what is a good but not great team.

dukefan_828
02-27-2017, 09:07 PM
LETS GO HOOS!! Just set a cheat fan str8 in ESPN convo thread...

CHEAT FAN:
During the Jackson floater piece, Hicks clearly got fouled on the dunk attempt. Next play, Hicks got called for a foul on the rebound when Diakite flops into him. If you know basketball, then you know that momentum is everything in a low possision, tight ball game. This new verticalitty rule is being misinterpreted by these officials becuase the defender will always look like he's going vertical his he's jumping INTO an oncoming scorer. It's simple physics. I smell home cooking.

MYSELF:
Cry somewere else you UN-Cheat fan, maybe the 14-4 turnover difference and lock down Virginia defense had something to do with it? As for the fouls even at 12 a piece so no arguement for you there. SOUND like a stupid poor loser. Were as my blue devils went in there weathered the storm and came out with the W. Lose like you win, give the Hoo's there credit, they were the the better team tonight!! PS Reggie Bullock just admitted he never went to class in his 3years @ cheat, sanctions and banners will be coming down very SOON! See you saturday, oh like those banners kiss that #1 seed GOODBYE

BTW our Duke grad ESPN analyst give us NO love. Jay Will just said he does not consider Duke a threat for the final 4 because "Of the way there playing right now". What a crock. We go on a 7 game winning streak with wins against UNC and UVA ON THE ROAD. Then lose on a half court buzzer beater @SYR and lose a nail biter on the road to a UM team who blew Carolina out the Gym! Not to mention our second best player and floor general didn't play, what a joke! yes i've been dissapointed last two games bc a team with killer instinct would have went for the kill and won both games, but his comment is ridiculous. Don't forget who our coach is and we haven't lost yet when @ full strength! I like our chances as good as anybody when healthy. Lets win out and cut down the nets in BK to shuttem up!! SHAME ON YOU JAY WILL, LETS GO DUKE!!

Saratoga2
02-27-2017, 09:08 PM
UNC is now 0-3 on the road against teams that are at least .500 in conference. They are 1-1 on the road against bubble teams. And they are 4-0 on the road against the bottom feeders. That schedule has masked what is a good but not great team.

Virginia held them to 43. Virginia is very capable of holding teams to season lows, their problem has been they have problems scoring themselves. Tonight, they managed to hit a few and UNC was toast.

Wheat/"/"/"
02-27-2017, 09:09 PM
I've been on a gluten free diet lately. It's been working well. But I can't help myself tonight. I need some starch. Where are you Wheat?

Way too many TO's by UNC to expect to win against a good team playing well.

I thought UVA and UNC both played well defensively, but the difference was UVA made enough really, tough, contested shots and UNC didn't.

One of UNC's weaknesses is that they get frustrated when games are allowed to be physical like that, and it takes them out of their rhythm. They have to play tougher and not let the no calls get to them.

dukelion
02-27-2017, 09:11 PM
UVA matches up well with UNC. They double the post so hard that it pretty much forced UNC out of that and put it on their perimeter guys who just weren't up to task tonight.

Also thought this game really showed UNCs main weakness.....lack of perimeter depth. When Berry and Jackson were out of the game they barely looked like they could make a pass let alone score some points.

dukelifer
02-27-2017, 09:13 PM
Virginia held them to 43. Virginia is very capable of holding teams to season lows, their problem has been they have problems scoring themselves. Tonight, they managed to hit a few and UNC was toast.

I must say I am surprised and happy. UNC was looking very stout and was scoring easily. For UNC to hold them to 43 is impressive.

Doria
02-27-2017, 09:16 PM
Way too many TO's by UNC to expect to win against a good team playing well. {snip}

One of UNC's weaknesses is that they get frustrated when games are allowed to be physical like that, and it takes them out of their rhythm. They have to play tougher and not let the no calls get to them.

I pretty much agree here, except that this seems to imply that Carolina doesn't play... uh, "physical like that." I do agree, though, that they have trouble with frustration in that situation, if they aren't getting the calls (which isn't unique to them--most teams have some tendency to frustration).

Tappan Zee Devil
02-27-2017, 09:19 PM
UNC is now 0-3 on the road against teams that are at least .500 in conference. They are 1-1 on the road against bubble teams. And they are 4-0 on the road against the bottom feeders. That schedule has masked what is a good but not great team.

Yeah - but we now have to play them at home :(

Doria
02-27-2017, 09:19 PM
Yeah - but we now have to play them at home :(

I have no confidence about that game, but at least we're used to playing good teams on the road...

Wheat/"/"/"
02-27-2017, 09:23 PM
I pretty much agree here, except that this seems to imply that Carolina doesn't play... uh, "physical like that." I do agree, though, that they have trouble with frustration in that situation, if they aren't getting the calls (which isn't unique to them--most teams have some tendency to frustration).

All I can say is Hicks is gonna need a shrink.

91devil
02-27-2017, 09:27 PM
All I can say is Hicks is gonna need a shrink.

Because he's not Third-Team ACC?

duketaylor
02-27-2017, 09:28 PM
"For UNC to hold them to 43 is impressive."

Well, maybe for UVA to do so. Maybe unc held themselves to 43.:cool:

bluedev_92
02-27-2017, 09:44 PM
UNC is now 0-3 on the road against teams that are at least .500 in conference. They are 1-1 on the road against bubble teams. And they are 4-0 on the road against the bottom feeders. That schedule has masked what is a good but not great team.

Exactly my thoughts from another thread a few days ago responding to Wheat.. This is further proof...

Wheat/"/"/"
02-27-2017, 09:46 PM
Because he's not Third-Team ACC?

No, to help him understand his touch fouls in a game with that much contact.

HCFthird
02-27-2017, 09:48 PM
No, to help him understand his touch fouls in a game with that much contact.

HA! Dude is the biggest hack in the ACC since Darius Songalia.

devildeac
02-27-2017, 11:02 PM
VT-66
UM-61

Duke hangover.

UM leading scorer on Saturday with a stunning 8 point, 5 foul showing tonight. :mad:

gofurman
02-27-2017, 11:27 PM
So if I'm reading this correctly, if we win out, the only way we don't get a double bye is if we end up in a 3-way tie with Louisville and FSU at 12-6, with Notre Dame at 13-5.

There are still paths to a 2 seed, although a lot has to break right, most significant being that Louisville has to lose twice to get them out of tiebreaker scenarios, as we don't come out first in any scenario where the Cardinals are included.

If we go 1-1 then. I assume we basically can't get a double bye? IE, if we. beat FSU and lose to UNC we are probably Sixth in the ACC ?? Is that about right if we were 11-7?
Because honestly I would be happy holding out Grayson and Amile for health and scraping by FSU to get 11-7. Without those two guys 1-1 would impressive considering its FSU and UNC. I sure wish we had won one of the last two games ... Makes it easier to hold guys out if we were 11-5

Troublemaker
02-28-2017, 12:02 AM
All I can say is Hicks is gonna need a shrink.

You might need one, too, if Duke sweeps UNC on Saturday.

But first, FSU.

pfrduke
02-28-2017, 12:08 AM
If we go 1-1 then. I assume we basically can't get a double bye? IE, if we. beat FSU and lose to UNC we are probably Sixth in the ACC ?? Is that about right if we were 11-7?
Because honestly I would be happy holding out Grayson and Amile for health and scraping by FSU to get 11-7. Without those two guys 1-1 would impressive considering its FSU and UNC. I sure wish we had won one of the last two games ... Makes it easier to hold guys out if we were 11-5

We'd need a lot of help. One of ND or Louisville would be guaranteed to be ahead of us, and probably both. If we end up 11-7, Miami would need to beat FSU too, so we'd be in some mess of a tiebreaker with Miami, FSU, and probably both UVA and Virginia Tech. Not sure who comes out on top in that scenario.

NashvilleDevil
02-28-2017, 01:15 AM
VT-66
UM-61

Duke hangover.

UM leading scorer on Saturday with a stunning 8 point, 5 foul showing tonight. :mad:

Shocked not shocked. Brown may have one more game like he did against Duke in his Miami career and that will probably be against Duke too.

PackMan97
02-28-2017, 02:26 AM
UNC is now 0-3 on the road against teams that are at least .500 in conference. They are 1-1 on the road against bubble teams. And they are 4-0 on the road against the bottom feeders. That schedule has masked what is a good but not great team.

UNC is a good team playing a schedule that makes them look great. Somehow it always seems like they have the schedule they need. Almost like someone running the ACC is looking out for them.

Dr. Rosenrosen
02-28-2017, 05:20 AM
UNC is a good team playing a schedule that makes them look great. Somehow it always seems like they have the schedule they need. Almost like someone running the ACC is looking out for them.
Perusing IC as a guilty pleasure last evening, I noted at least a few posters who were complaining about the scheduling of Sat/Mon road games and how the ACC office had it out for them. It's like these dummies forget who the ACC commish is (and, similarly, who runs ESPN).

Wheat/"/"/"
02-28-2017, 06:11 AM
You might need one, too, if Duke sweeps UNC on Saturday.

But first, FSU.

Nah, I'm a big picture guy. Should that happen, I'll just focus on the next game and the fact we earned the number one seed in the ACC tourney, something that goes with the accomplishment of back to back ACC regular season titles, and then just see how we do in the tourney and big dance.

And I promise, I won't even take much solace in your seventh place finish in the ACC, or where ever Duke ends up.

...oops! Oh no he did 'int. :)

Wheat/"/"/"
02-28-2017, 06:20 AM
UNC is a good team playing a schedule that makes them look great. Somehow it always seems like they have the schedule they need. Almost like someone running the ACC is looking out for them.

The butler did it with help from the maid.

The Packs schedule makes a bad team look horrible. Who's to blame for that?

Owen Meany
02-28-2017, 07:02 AM
Nah, I'm a big picture guy. Should that happen, I'll just focus on the next game and the fact we earned the number one seed in the ACC tourney, something that goes with the accomplishment of back to back ACC regular season titles, and then just see how we do in the tourney and big dance.

And I promise, I won't even take much solace in your seventh place finish in the ACC, or where ever Duke ends up.

...oops! Oh no he did 'int. :)

I just hope the mods don't erase this like a similar post from last week where the angry fisherman did the same thing. It was erased before I could respond. This should put to bed once and for all whether Wheat is a troll or not. I can't wait until he passive aggressively comes back stating how he just comes here for good conversation but people attack him for no reason, etc, etc. Yawn.

jv001
02-28-2017, 07:13 AM
I just hope the mods don't erase this like a similar post from last week where the angry fisherman did the same thing. It was erased before I could respond. This should put to bed once and for all whether Wheat is a troll or not. I can't wait until he passive aggressively comes back stating how he just comes here for good conversation but people attack him for no reason, etc, etc. Yawn.

Since I can't respond to The # 1 Tar Heel fanatic, I'll post this to your comment. You are correct on everything you posted. Any uncheat fan that doesn't realize their schedule was/is the reason for their conference championship is sleep walking thru the season. Plus, if they don't realize that their program is built on years of cheating and the many wins they have they accumulated over the years with in-eligible players is delusional? Yes and it began with Saint Dean, God rest his soul. He sold that soul in order to keep up with Coach K when he began Duke's run to the FF in the late 80's. What a sham of a program down on Cheat Hill. Boy, it felt good to get that off my chest. GoDuke!

devildeac
02-28-2017, 07:46 AM
I just hope the mods don't erase this like a similar post from last week where the angry fisherman did the same thing. It was erased before I could respond. This should put to bed once and for all whether Wheat is a troll or not. I can't wait until he passive aggressively comes back stating how he just comes here for good conversation but people attack him for no reason, etc, etc. Yawn.

Syracuse@unc
ND@unc-G
f$u@unc
L'Ville@unc
UVa@unc (UVa win at C'ville return match)
VT@unc

Just to reiterate the home dump advantages the cheaters enjoyed against the top tier MBB schools during the 2016-17 campaign.

Yea, they have a very good team, but...

Wheat/"/"/"
02-28-2017, 08:11 AM
I just hope the mods don't erase this like a similar post from last week where the angry fisherman did the same thing. It was erased before I could respond. This should put to bed once and for all whether Wheat is a troll or not. I can't wait until he passive aggressively comes back stating how he just comes here for good conversation but people attack him for no reason, etc, etc. Yawn.

A little thin skinned?

I was just responding with a bit of a rivalry jab. I'm not gonna lay down all the time here.

jv001
02-28-2017, 08:17 AM
I just hope the mods don't erase this like a similar post from last week where the angry fisherman did the same thing. It was erased before I could respond. This should put to bed once and for all whether Wheat is a troll or not. I can't wait until he passive aggressively comes back stating how he just comes here for good conversation but people attack him for no reason, etc, etc. Yawn.

And if the person you're referring to, happens to respond, I hope he posts something that contributes to the discussion. Because if he doesn't he becomes a troll. At least that's what I was told by that person. GoDuke!

PackMan97
02-28-2017, 08:24 AM
The butler did it with help from the maid.

The Packs schedule makes a bad team look horrible. Who's to blame for that?

True or false, UNC-Cheat has the second lowest ACC Strength of Schedule this season? Only Wake Forest has had an easier schedule. Without that schedule I'm positive UNC would not be coming away with a regular season title (or Duke willing, a ahare of one) if they had Clemson, Pitt or UVa's schedule. Go ahead, please tell me what your Cheaters best road win is this season? There aren't many to choose from.

NC State?
Boston College?
Wake Forest?
Pitt?
Miami?
Clemson?

Heck, on the road the Heels can't even beat GT or Indiana....you needed OT to beat Clemson.

Whatever the reason, Carolina this season is as fraudulent as their academics this season.

whereinthehellami
02-28-2017, 08:30 AM
A little thin skinned?

I was just responding with a bit of a rivalry jab. I'm not gonna lay down all the time here.

I'm not skinned but I do enjoy coming to DBR to talk about Duke. Who cares if you lay down or not. The rivalry jab is not needed or wanted. If you feel that a Duke board is a place in which you need to keep Duke in check than you are a problem. If you want to add some interesting conversation about the cheats than go ahead but keep your snarky comments about Duke to yourself. You really do ruin DBR for quite a few people, which is why you are compared to a troll, which is a fair assessment IMO.

UNCfan
02-28-2017, 08:31 AM
You guys are right, UNC's has not had the toughest ACC road schedule and we do not have an impressive road win to show for it. That worries me. We didn't have an impressive road win last year, other than the win in Cameron, and we made it to the final game. I think this team can make it back to the final game, they can be that good. IMHO, the problem is leadership on the court. Berry can be a spark plug when he is playing well, but when he isn't, he does little to make the other players better. Hicks is MIA. He gets the silliest touch fouls I have ever seen, and he gets them in bunches. He has to be leading the nation in fouls per minute. UNC's senior class has been a disappointment. Meeks has played well and has improved each season, but I am not sure he gets it. There is a killer instinct that elite teams have that UNC doesn't have. They may be able to overcome that issue with good matchups in the tournament, but this team, currently, does not have IT.

jv001
02-28-2017, 08:38 AM
You guys are right, UNC's has not had the toughest ACC road schedule and we do not have an impressive road win to show for it. That worries me. We didn't have an impressive road win last year, other than the win in Cameron, and we made it to the final game. I think this team can make it back to the final game, they can be that good. IMHO, the problem is leadership on the court. Berry can be a spark plug when he is playing well, but when he isn't, he does little to make the other players better. Hicks is MIA. He gets the silliest touch fouls I have ever seen, and he gets them in bunches. He has to be leading the nation in fouls per minute. UNC's senior class has been a disappointment. Meeks has played well and has improved each season, but I am not sure he gets it. There is a killer instinct that elite teams have that UNC doesn't have. They may be able to overcome that issue with good matchups in the tournament, but this team, currently, does not have IT.

Thanks for a very good post. Sporks! Some of us Duke fans have said the same thing about the killer instinct being missing from our team. We seem to win or lose in close ball games. We don't blow many teams away and we don't get blown away in many games. We just don't put teams away like past Duke teams. Thank you for contributing to this thread. GoDuke!

dukebluesincebirth
02-28-2017, 08:48 AM
You guys are right, UNC's has not had the toughest ACC road schedule and we do not have an impressive road win to show for it. That worries me. We didn't have an impressive road win last year, other than the win in Cameron, and we made it to the final game. I think this team can make it back to the final game, they can be that good. IMHO, the problem is leadership on the court. Berry can be a spark plug when he is playing well, but when he isn't, he does little to make the other players better. Hicks is MIA. He gets the silliest touch fouls I have ever seen, and he gets them in bunches. He has to be leading the nation in fouls per minute. UNC's senior class has been a disappointment. Meeks has played well and has improved each season, but I am not sure he gets it. There is a killer instinct that elite teams have that UNC doesn't have. They may be able to overcome that issue with good matchups in the tournament, but this team, currently, does not have IT.

Thanks for offering a reasonable perspective. I didn't realize last year's team that almost won the title had little success on the road also. I agree that you guys lack that killer instinct. It has happened to Duke before too. The most talented players on the team may or may not be natural leaders and motivators. It's not their personality sometimes. The guys on this unc team would have to be jackson and berry. But I think unc has a chance because of their depth and balance. Rebounding helps out a ton, and can keep you in the game when shots aren't falling. If you come across a solid defensive team with solid defensive rebounding, you could be in trouble in the tourney (especially if Berry isn't hitting). You could also be in trouble if Berry were to get into early foul trouble. I don't see much value in Britt and Woods running the PG for long minutes right now. IMO, the natty is up for grabs for a handful of teams this year, and unc is definitely in the mix.

PackMan97
02-28-2017, 09:33 AM
Thanks for offering a reasonable perspective. I didn't realize last year's team that almost won the title had little success on the road also. I agree that you guys lack that killer instinct. It has happened to Duke before too. The most talented players on the team may or may not be natural leaders and motivators. It's not their personality sometimes. The guys on this unc team would have to be jackson and berry. But I think unc has a chance because of their depth and balance. Rebounding helps out a ton, and can keep you in the game when shots aren't falling. If you come across a solid defensive team with solid defensive rebounding, you could be in trouble in the tourney (especially if Berry isn't hitting). You could also be in trouble if Berry were to get into early foul trouble. I don't see much value in Britt and Woods running the PG for long minutes right now. IMO, the natty is up for grabs for a handful of teams this year, and unc is definitely in the mix.

I think UNC's biggest "heel" is their rebounding. If they can dominate the boards and get the other team in foul trouble inside, that opens up so much of their game. If a team is able to stay even on the boards , that's a perscription for a loss. I think a bad day by their bigs is even more of an issue than an off day by their shooters. I think Carolina can win on a bad shooting night, they can't win on a bad rebouding night.

Re: Killer instinct, aside from their annual games against NC State, I think it's been a good decade since we've seen that "Carolina Swagger" and killer instinct that dominated the 90s. You know the attitude that even though we are down 12 with 5 seconds left to play, "We got this". That hasn't been seen in a long while. I guess in so many respects the "Carolina Way" is gone. Teams (aside from NC State and Clemson) just no longer fear the heels.

flyingdutchdevil
02-28-2017, 09:45 AM
I think UNC's biggest "heel" is their rebounding. If they can dominate the boards and get the other team in foul trouble inside, that opens up so much of their game. If a team is able to stay even on the boards , that's a perscription for a loss. I think a bad day by their bigs is even more of an issue than an off day by their shooters. I think Carolina can win on a bad shooting night, they can't win on a bad rebouding night.

Re: Killer instinct, aside from their annual games against NC State, I think it's been a good decade since we've seen that "Carolina Swagger" and killer instinct that dominated the 90s. You know the attitude that even though we are down 12 with 5 seconds left to play, "We got this". That hasn't been seen in a long while. I guess in so many respects the "Carolina Way" is gone. Teams (aside from NC State and Clemson) just no longer fear the heels.

Which is funny, because they've won the last two ACC regular seasons (at least sharing this year). I obviously get the UNC hate, the lack of respect for their athletic department, the criticism towards certain players, and their annoying fan(s) that come to DBR, but I don't get the lack of respect towards them for what they've accomplished over the last 2 years.

Un-balanced schedules aside, they have been great (and I don't get the unbalanced schedule debate. UNC just beat who was in front of them. That's akin to saying, "Duke just made it to the Final Four because they had an easy road". It's a cop-out statement). Roy Williams has been an excellent coach, providing better results than Coach K has over the last 2 years despite having a quarter of the talent. UNC is basically Duke in the 2000s - winning with experienced and talent players who likely don't have much of an NBA career. And that's perfectly fine. Many of us defended Duke with that approach for years. The only silver lining is that Duke owns UNC's number.

PackMan - this post isn't targeted towards you but rather a lot of mentality at DBR regarding UNC.

CDu
02-28-2017, 09:53 AM
Un-balanced schedules aside, they have been great (and I don't get the unbalanced schedule debate. UNC just beat who was in front of them. That's akin to saying, "Duke just made it to the Final Four because they had an easy road". It's a cop-out statement).

It's really not, though. And I don't think anyone is blaming UNC for their schedule. But it is totally reasonable to note that they've played the lightest schedule of any of the top teams in terms of home/road and number of games. And they've lost all of the road games against teams in the conference's top ten. Hell, they are just 1-4 in road games against teams in the top-12 of the conference.

That's not to say they aren't one of the best teams in the ACC. They are. But their record in the ACC is pretty clearly inflated by playing an easier schedule than the rest of the top conference teams. They'd still be in the mix for the regular season title had they played a tougher schedule. But they'd probably be in the 5- or 6-loss range right now instead of being guaranteed at least a share of the title.

Again, that's not meant to be a criticism of UNC. It's not their fault that they got that easy schedule. But it is still a reality.

PackMan97
02-28-2017, 10:14 AM
I don't get the lack of respect towards them for what they've accomplished over the last 2 years.

They are a very successful team. Their success has nothing to do with whether or not I respect them.

I think your question is why don't I respect their accomplishments? The answer to that, I'll leave to your imagination.

Wander
02-28-2017, 10:19 AM
This whole discussion about strength of schedule would be easier to swallow without the NC State home loss. Without that loss, I could very easily argue that Duke's 11-5 record is as good or better than UNC's 13-4 record because of strength of schedule. But we've earned a not-first-place finish with that horrible loss (and yes, it was a horrible loss at the time as well).

(No offense PackMan97)

OldPhiKap
02-28-2017, 10:26 AM
You guys are right, UNC's has not had the toughest ACC road schedule and we do not have an impressive road win to show for it. That worries me. We didn't have an impressive road win last year, other than the win in Cameron, and we made it to the final game. I think this team can make it back to the final game, they can be that good. IMHO, the problem is leadership on the court. Berry can be a spark plug when he is playing well, but when he isn't, he does little to make the other players better. Hicks is MIA. He gets the silliest touch fouls I have ever seen, and he gets them in bunches. He has to be leading the nation in fouls per minute. UNC's senior class has been a disappointment. Meeks has played well and has improved each season, but I am not sure he gets it. There is a killer instinct that elite teams have that UNC doesn't have. They may be able to overcome that issue with good matchups in the tournament, but this team, currently, does not have IT.

Great post, I think this hits the nail on the head.

If UNC gets motivated and focused, they could be a Final Four team. The first two games should be in Greenville, which will essentially be home games for them (even if there is a large Duke contingent).

Same of course is true for us, wherever we play. We certainly have the talent and coaching and experience to get to the Final Four -- if we lock down mentally and shake off the injury snake-bite.

devildeac
02-28-2017, 10:29 AM
You guys are right, UNC's has not had the toughest ACC road schedule and we do not have an impressive road win to show for it. That worries me. We didn't have an impressive road win last year, other than the win in Cameron, and we made it to the final game. I think this team can make it back to the final game, they can be that good. IMHO, the problem is leadership on the court. Berry can be a spark plug when he is playing well, but when he isn't, he does little to make the other players better. Hicks is MIA. He gets the silliest touch fouls I have ever seen, and he gets them in bunches. He has to be leading the nation in fouls per minute. UNC's senior class has been a disappointment. Meeks has played well and has improved each season, but I am not sure he gets it. There is a killer instinct that elite teams have that UNC doesn't have. They may be able to overcome that issue with good matchups in the tournament, but this team, currently, does not have IT.

Nice analysis. For speculation purposes, how many of the unc home games do you think they'd have lost had they been played on the road (L'ville, f$u, VT, Syracuse, ND). That obviously assumes unc gets BC, WFU, GT, Miami, etc-or some combination thereof-at home instead of away.

UNCfan
02-28-2017, 10:31 AM
Some teams, especially experienced groups like this years UNC team, get a little bored with a long season and do not focus up until it really matters. Last years team did that and it almost worked out.
KU seems to be the only team that is winning big games this year. WVU can be scary in a one game series. Nova can do it. Oregon and UCLA have had some good battles, but I have not watched many of their games. No one else is playing head and shoulders above everyone else.
IMHHO, match ups and luck will determine the NC this year.

CDu
02-28-2017, 10:41 AM
This whole discussion about strength of schedule would be easier to swallow without the NC State home loss. Without that loss, I could very easily argue that Duke's 11-5 record is as good or better than UNC's 13-4 record because of strength of schedule. But we've earned a not-first-place finish with that horrible loss (and yes, it was a horrible loss at the time as well).

(No offense PackMan97)

Yeah, I definitely am not implying that Duke has played better in conference than UNC. Just that UNC would be in the middle of the top-tier pack and not a step ahead had they not been so fortunate in scheduling.

I do think we're probably 1 game better than our record (which would also put us right in the pack) thanks to the much tougher schedule. But I don't think we have played better than UNC to date at all.

curtis325
02-28-2017, 10:57 AM
Yeah, I definitely am not implying that Duke has played better in conference than UNC. Just that UNC would be in the middle of the top-tier pack and not a step ahead had they not been so fortunate in scheduling.

I do think we're probably 1 game better than our record (which would also put us right in the pack) thanks to the much tougher schedule. But I don't think we have played better than UNC to date at all.

Except in one particular game!

rsvman
02-28-2017, 10:59 AM
.. Roy Williams has been an excellent coach, providing better results than Coach K has over the last 2 years despite having a quarter of the talent. ....

Roy's been really successful; less so when they play Duke, though.:cool:

Matches
02-28-2017, 11:24 AM
Basically a meaningless loss for UNC IMO. They will still be the #1 seed in the ACCT - if they win the ACCT they will be a #1 seed in the NCAAT. Last night will be an afterthought.

(Not that it isn't always wonderful to see them lose - just doesn't mean much in the bigger picture.)

English
02-28-2017, 11:35 AM
Basically a meaningless loss for UNC IMO. They will still be the #1 seed in the ACCT - if they win the ACCT they will be a #1 seed in the NCAAT. Last night will be an afterthought.

(Not that it isn't always wonderful to see them lose - just doesn't mean much in the bigger picture.)

I'm not counting on it, but it would be nice for the Selection Committee to notice that UNC has literally ZERO quality road wins on its resume, and to punish them accordingly.

If they do, indeed, win the ACCT, that would at least boost their non-home resume, which is stronger than their road resume (it would have to be, by virtue that their road resume is complete trash). We'll see if they can perform away from the cozy confines of the Nose Dome, since they haven't really shown it to-date outside of a couple of Nov-Dec games.

duketaylor
02-28-2017, 11:37 AM
First 2 out are GT and Wake, both have home games this week vs. Pitt and Louis., resp. GT has to beat Pitt, Wake would get a huge boost beating Louis.
Vandy at UK tonite and home to Fla. Sat is daunting. Marquette @X and home to Creighton, also daunting. Gonna be interesting this week.

Troublemaker
02-28-2017, 11:48 AM
Basically a meaningless loss for UNC IMO. They will still be the #1 seed in the ACCT - if they win the ACCT they will be a #1 seed in the NCAAT. Last night will be an afterthought.

(Not that it isn't always wonderful to see them lose - just doesn't mean much in the bigger picture.)

The loss adds a little bit more pressure to what will already be a pressure-packed game for UNC on Saturday. Basically when a team has clinched a share of the regular season title with two games to go, its next thought is to win the regular season title outright. Very few people are psychologically trained well enough that it wouldn't feel like they lost something if Duke wins on Saturday and denies them the outright title.

Now, there are greater pressures being exerted on UNC Saturday. There's "don't get swept" pressure, Senior Night pressure, College Gameday primetime pressure, "Duke has won 5 of 6 and 12 of 16 and owns us" pressure, "we want a 1 seed" pressure, "our two best players have never beaten Duke at home" pressure, etc.

But I like tacking on just a little bit more and adding "we blew the outright regular season title" pressure.

So, yeah, UNC's loss to UVA is not meaningless to me.

PackMan97
02-28-2017, 11:56 AM
Now, there are greater pressures being exerted on UNC Saturday. There's "don't get swept" pressure, Senior Night pressure, College Gameday primetime pressure, "Duke has won 5 of 6 and 12 of 16 and owns us" pressure, "we want a 1 seed" pressure, "our two best players have never beaten Duke at home" pressure, etc.


The win before the NCAA makes their ruling pressure since this could be our last chance for a while....though I said that last year and couldn't have been more wrong (see this year)

UNCfan
02-28-2017, 12:42 PM
Nice analysis. For speculation purposes, how many of the unc home games do you think they'd have lost had they been played on the road (L'ville, f$u, VT, Syracuse, ND). That obviously assumes unc gets BC, WFU, GT, Miami, etc-or some combination thereof-at home instead of away.

I think UNC could struggle to win at FSU and UL, but they should win the rest. Having said that, what away game gets removed from UNC's schedule? Miami? GT? UVA? Not all things are equal in this equation, but I believe it does work out over time. Just not in this window in time where it apparently benefits UNC.

devildeac
02-28-2017, 12:55 PM
I think UNC could struggle to win at FSU and UL, but they should win the rest. Having said that, what away game gets removed from UNC's schedule? Miami? GT? UVA? Not all things are equal in this equation, but I believe it does work out over time. Just not in this window in time where it apparently benefits UNC.

Thanks. Good assessment. I'd guess they stand a reasonable chance of losing at ND and/or VT but then come up with a W at home against Miami instead of a loss. Likely a 1-2 game "swing." Hopefully, we'll see them @ND, Syracuse, UL and VT next year.

English
02-28-2017, 12:56 PM
I think UNC could struggle to win at FSU and UL, but they should win the rest. Having said that, what away game gets removed from UNC's schedule? Miami? GT? UVA? Not all things are equal in this equation, but I believe it does work out over time. Just not in this window in time where it apparently benefits UNC.

They should win the rest like they should've beaten GaTech? Miami? Away conference games are tough.

CDu
02-28-2017, 01:03 PM
Thanks. Good assessment. I'd guess they stand a reasonable chance of losing at ND and/or VT but then come up with a W at home against Miami instead of a loss. Likely a 1-2 game "swing." Hopefully, we'll see them @ND, Syracuse, UL and VT next year.

Hopefully next year - with no Meeks, Hicks, Britt, and hopefully no Berry or Jackson, the schedule won't matter.

UNC has had veteran talent and quality depth for the last few years. This year they are not as deep, but they still have veteran talent. Next year they might well have a lack of both.

flyingdutchdevil
02-28-2017, 01:09 PM
Hopefully next year - with no Meeks, Hicks, Britt, and hopefully no Berry or Jackson, the schedule won't matter.

UNC has had veteran talent and quality depth for the last few years. This year they are not as deep, but they still have veteran talent. Next year they might well have a lack of both.

I can't see Berry leaving. Jackson? He'd be a royal idiot to stay.

I agree that UNC should see a down year(s) coming up. Poor recruiting should hopefully catch up with them.

jv001
02-28-2017, 01:49 PM
I can't see Berry leaving. Jackson? He'd be a royal idiot to stay.

I agree that UNC should see a down year(s) coming up. Poor recruiting should hopefully catch up with them.

Agree about Berry. As for Jackson, he is one of old roy's and their have been that stayed and probably wish they hadn't. So much for coaching them up.:cool: GoDuke!

UNCfan
02-28-2017, 01:52 PM
Jalek Felton is going to be good for UNC next year. I also believe Knox will come to UNC. We have a big need for him next year.

Berry
Felton
Pinson
Knox
Bradley

that line up could be very competitive and fun to watch.


A NCAA ruling cloud could change all of that.

Doria
02-28-2017, 02:04 PM
I'm not counting on it, but it would be nice for the Selection Committee to notice that UNC has literally ZERO quality road wins on its resume, and to punish them accordingly.

Bu... Bu... But Wake Forest........?

(I jest. Carry on.)

Doria
03-01-2017, 11:56 AM
Tonight's games may be pretty interesting. Or they may be exactly what we expect to happen. I can't see BC beating ND, but Wake hosting Louisville, while unlikely, may be a good game, Wake isn't as bad as their record suggests. Of course, Louisville is probably as good as theirs suggests, too. Could happen, though...

Tripping William
03-01-2017, 01:01 PM
Tonight's games may be pretty interesting. Or they may be exactly what we expect to happen. I can't see BC beating ND, but Wake hosting Louisville, while unlikely, may be a good game, Wake isn't as bad as their record suggests. Of course, Louisville is probably as good as theirs suggests, too. Could happen, though...

To me, this is a bit of a barometer game for Wake, perhaps the biggest game of Danny Manning's coaching career-to-date. A win most likely gets them into The Dance. A competitive loss announces that they are truly a team on the rise; watch out next year (especially if Collins returns). Lose in a blowout? "That's why they're Wake." I, for one, am predicting a competitive game.

Olympic Fan
03-01-2017, 01:21 PM
To me, this is a bit of a barometer game for Wake, perhaps the biggest game of Danny Manning's coaching career-to-date. A win most likely gets them into The Dance. A competitive loss announces that they are truly a team on the rise; watch out next year (especially if Collins returns). Lose in a blowout? "That's why they're Wake." I, for one, am predicting a competitive game.

That is the big question regarding Wake basketball. Austin Arians is their only scholarship senior -- and he's at best a support player. If Manning can keep Collins (and also Crawford), the Deacs go into next year with one of the most talented, experienced teams in the ACC. If Collins goes pro, they take a step back.

I don't think the NIT would be a bad experience for this Wake Forest team. It's young and not used to going to the NCAA. An NIT bid would feel like a step forward -- and the chance to win a few games (and maybe compete for the title) could do more for the program than a quick NCAA exit. Of course, an NCAA bid and even a modest NCAA run (Sweet 16?) would do even more.

One word about the NIT ... a lot of people are still operating under the premise that NCAA selection is similar to what it was 10 years ago. For years, all an ACC team had to do was finish with a winning overall record and they would get a bid. No longer. A few years ago, the NCAA bought the NIT and changed the selection process to something more like the NCAA. They also guaranteed an NIT bid to every conference regular season champ that doesn't get an NCAA bid and that fills up about a third of the field with lower and mid-majors.

As a result, NIT selection is much more selective. Pitt is not going to get an NCAA bid if they finish at one one game over .500 (as is suggested on the front page today). Clemson didn't get one a year ago with a 17-14 record (10-8 ACC).

I think Wake and Syracuse will get NIT if they miss NCAA. Clemson has a chance (at the NIT, not NCAA). I don't think NC State or Pitt is an NIT team unless they do something remarkable down the stretch.

BandAlum83
03-01-2017, 08:16 PM
BC up 6 minutes in. I know I'm wasting my time, but watching to see how long they can hang.

Olympic Fan
03-01-2017, 09:09 PM
BC up 6 minutes in. I know I'm wasting my time, but watching to see how long they can hang.

Notre Dame up 12 early in the second half. BC showing a lot of fight, but still ...

Clemson-NC State is an amazingly competitive game ... meaningless, yes, but still a great battle.

Wake-Louisville just tipping off.

fisheyes
03-01-2017, 09:58 PM
Wake had a very nice comeback at the end of the first half and only down 43-42 to Louisville at home.
Let's see how they hold up in the second half.

Olympic Fan
03-01-2017, 10:00 PM
So Clemson finally wins a close one -- down 74-72, State calls timeout to set up a tying or winning shot. They come out of the timeout and Dennis Smith dribbles out beyond the top of the key then launches a 30-foot air ball with three seconds left. Blossomgame clinches it with two free throws ...

Louisville was up big early on Wake (at least 14, but I kept switching to State-Clemson, so I'm not sure how big it got). Wake makes a run to close the half and cuts it to one at the break.

Notre Dame goes to 12-5 by beating BC at home.

fisheyes
03-01-2017, 11:17 PM
This league is incredible this year.
Wake grew up tonight and held on for a great win at home against Louisville.
Wake is going to be tough in the ACCT

Ultrarunner
03-01-2017, 11:20 PM
The road has been brutal this year. Consider that and that two of our road losses came without Grayson, one came without Amile, and Coach K was out for a month.

Come tourney time, this team can win on the road.

Usual caveats about health.

DavidBenAkiva
03-01-2017, 11:21 PM
Louisville drops its game to Wake Forest. There go my "most likely scenarios" from earlier today. Basketball has been making me wrong for a long damn time, man.

pfrduke
03-01-2017, 11:25 PM
Louisville drops its game to Wake Forest. There go my "most likely scenarios" from earlier today. Basketball has been making me wrong for a long damn time, man.

The most important part of this outcome from our perspective is that it keeps the 2-seed alive. If we beat Carolina, Louisville beats Notre Dame, and FSU beats Miami, we win that 4-way tie at 12-6. All the teams would be 2-2 against each other and we're the only one of the bunch to have beaten UNC. We need FSU to win because Louisville would hold the edge in a 3-way tie with Notre Dame.

Ultrarunner
03-01-2017, 11:35 PM
The most important part of this outcome from our perspective is that it keeps the 2-seed alive. If we beat Carolina, Louisville beats Notre Dame, and FSU beats Miami, we win that 4-way tie at 12-6. All the teams would be 2-2 against each other and we're the only one of the bunch to have beaten UNC. We need FSU to win because Louisville would hold the edge in a 3-way tie with Notre Dame.

Is it okay if we beat the Tar out of the Heels just because it's fun?

BandAlum83
03-01-2017, 11:36 PM
The most important part of this outcome from our perspective is that it keeps the 2-seed alive. If we beat Carolina, Louisville beats Notre Dame, and FSU beats Miami, we win that 4-way tie at 12-6. All the teams would be 2-2 against each other and we're the only one of the bunch to have beaten UNC. We need FSU to win because Louisville would hold the edge in a 3-way tie with Notre Dame.

I would say the most important thing is that we control our destiny. If we beat UNC, we get a double bye. Does it really matter if it is a 2,3 or 4 given the strength of the top 4? Would it really matter if we are playing any of those teams on Friday or Saturday?

Does the quality of the likely opponent on Thursday really change appreciably?

Do the game times for the seedlings provide any real advantage?

pfrduke
03-01-2017, 11:40 PM
I misread schedules. We can't get the 2. FSUwins that tiebreak and we'd be 4

Olympic Fan
03-01-2017, 11:44 PM
The most important part of this outcome from our perspective is that it keeps the 2-seed alive. If we beat Carolina, Louisville beats Notre Dame, and FSU beats Miami, we win that 4-way tie at 12-6. All the teams would be 2-2 against each other and we're the only one of the bunch to have beaten UNC. We need FSU to win because Louisville would hold the edge in a 3-way tie with Notre Dame.

Sorry, that's not right.

In the four way tie at 12-6, FSU would be 3-2 against the other 3 -- they beat Duke, Notre Dame and Louisville at home.

Duke and Louisville would be 2-2 (if Louisville beats Notre Dame Saturday)

Notre dame gets the fifth seed with a 2-3 record in the head-do head (they beat Louisville and FSU at home, lost at FSU, lost to Duke at home and will have that last loss at Louisville.

At that point, you look at head-to-head between Duke and Louisville, which Louisville wins.

So under your scenario, we get the No. 4 seed, not No. 2.

We can get the 3 seed, if Notre Dame upsets Louisville. That gives Notre Dame a tie for first (although UNC gets the No. 1 seed). Duke would win the tiebreaker with FSU for third place (1-1 head to head, but UNC win gives it to Duke).

The third seed is the best we can do at this point.

BandAlum83
03-01-2017, 11:48 PM
Sorry, that's not right.

In the four way tie at 12-6, FSU would be 3-2 against the other 3 -- they beat Duke, Notre Dame and Louisville at home.

Duke and Louisville would be 2-2 (if Louisville beats Notre Dame Saturday)

Notre dame gets the fifth seed with a 2-3 record in the head-do head (they beat Louisville and FSU at home, lost at FSU, lost to Duke at home and will have that last loss at Louisville.

At that point, you look at head-to-head between Duke and Louisville, which Louisville wins.

So under your scenario, we get the No. 4 seed, not No. 2.

We can get the 3 seed, if Notre Dame upsets Louisville. That gives Notre Dame a tie for first (although UNC gets the No. 1 seed). Duke would win the tiebreaker with FSU for third place (1-1 head to head, but UNC win gives it to Duke).

The third seed is the best we can do at this point.

Correct, the only#2 scenario was dependent on BC beating ND.

PackMan97
03-02-2017, 12:24 AM
So Clemson finally wins a close one

NC State is like the antibiotic of the ACC. We will cure what ails you.

Haven't won a road game in 4 years? Play NC State on the road! Can't win a close game? Play NC State. You are on a four game losing streak you desperately need to snap? Play NC State!

Getting too cocky because you haven't lost at home this season? Play NC State ;)

cato
03-02-2017, 01:30 AM
NC State is like the antibiotic of the ACC. We will cure what ails you.

Haven't won a road game in 4 years? Play NC State on the road! Can't win a close game? Play NC State. You are on a four game losing streak you desperately need to snap? Play NC State!

Getting too cocky because you haven't lost at home this season? Play NC State ;)

I was wondering how you were going to bring that one around. Nicely done.

OldPhiKap
03-02-2017, 06:49 AM
NC State is like the antibiotic of the ACC. We will cure what ails you.

Haven't won a road game in 4 years? Play NC State on the road! Can't win a close game? Play NC State. You are on a four game losing streak you desperately need to snap? Play NC State!

Getting too cocky because you haven't lost at home this season? Play NC State ;)

Well done, even the last one.

Indoor66
03-02-2017, 08:12 AM
Louisville drops its game to Wake Forest. There go my "most likely scenarios" from earlier today. Basketball has been making me wrong for a long damn time, man.

Sometimes I'd rather be lucky than good.😍😎

CDu
03-02-2017, 08:33 AM
Huge win for Wake. It might even get them into the dance if they can win against Va Tech to close it out. They still probably need to win another game or so in the ACC tourney, but this helped them a lot.

The Louisville loss puts them in a tie with us, which is not great from a tiebreaker perspective. No we need to cheer for Notre Dame to beat the Cards on Saturday.

A win over UNC would put us in the double bye. A loss to UNC will eliminate us from any shot at the double bye.

OldPhiKap
03-02-2017, 09:15 AM
A win over UNC would put us in the double bye. A loss to UNC will eliminate us from any shot at the double bye.

A clear outcome, and one in our control.

That's all you can ask.

Go Duke!

Billy Dat
03-02-2017, 11:48 AM
ClubTrillion/Ringer college hoops scribe, Mark Titus, mentioned on his "T'd Up!" pod yesterday that the regular season will likely end with UNC failing to secure a road win against an NCAA tournament team (which, I guess, hinges on whether or not Wake makes it)

https://soundcloud.com/ringeruniversity/ep-45-td-up-this-is-march

BandAlum83
03-02-2017, 11:53 AM
Huge win for Wake. It might even get them into the dance if they can win against Va Tech to close it out. They still probably need to win another game or so in the ACC tourney, but this helped them a lot.

The Louisville loss puts them in a tie with us, which is not great from a tiebreaker perspective. No we need to cheer for Notre Dame to beat the Cards on Saturday.

A win over UNC would put us in the double bye. A loss to UNC will eliminate us from any shot at the double bye.

Not sure why you would say we need to cheer for ND on Saturday. That game has no bearing on us as you point out in your last paragraph. The only game that matters to us is the UNC game. Win and our next game is Thursday, Lose and we play Wednesday.

Simple is as simple does.

CDu
03-02-2017, 12:08 PM
Not sure why you would say we need to cheer for ND on Saturday. That game has no bearing on us as you point out in your last paragraph. The only game that matters to us is the UNC game. Win and our next game is Thursday, Lose and we play Wednesday.

Simple is as simple does.

Because when we beat UNC our seed gets better if we are not tied with Louisville.

BandAlum83
03-02-2017, 12:17 PM
Because when we beat UNC our seed gets better if we are not tied with Louisville.

Can you give any reason why a 3 seed would be better than a 4 seed?

Are the game times more favorable?

Is there any appreciable easier path to the ACCT championship game given a 3 or a 4 seed? Maybe it would be better to play UNC on Friday, Louisville on Saturday and ND not at all. Or would ND on Friday be better and UNC on Saturday?

Or maybe FSU and Virginia or Miami end up in the weekend mix. We are capable of beating or losing to all of those teams.

Can you honestly say you have a preference?

It's going to be maybe the most competitive tournament in a very long time. I don't see the difference.

The important thing is the double bye, not the seeding.

rocketeli
03-02-2017, 12:30 PM
seeding, shmeeding. Miami beats FSU so that FSU can finish below us in the standings, and ND beats Lville so that if we take care of business UNC will have to share the regular season championship they care so much about. So for me, cheer, cheer for old Notre Dame!

sagegrouse
03-02-2017, 12:31 PM
Can you give any reason why a 3 seed would be better than a 4 seed?

Are the game times more favorable?

Is there any appreciable easier path to the ACCT championship game given a 3 or a 4 seed? Maybe it would be better to play UNC on Friday, Louisville on Saturday and ND not at all. Or would ND on Friday be better and UNC on Saturday?

Or maybe FSU and Virginia or Miami end up in the weekend mix. We are capable of beating or losing to all of those teams.

Can you honestly say you have a preference?

It's going to be maybe the most competitive tournament in a very long time. I don't see the difference.

The important thing is the double bye, not the seeding.

Yeah, I prefer to be a three seed rather than a four seed. UNC has the best record in the ACC. I would be pleased to give a couple of other teams a chance to beat them first.

Kindly,
Sage

BandAlum83
03-02-2017, 12:33 PM
seeding, shmeeding. Miami beats FSU so that FSU can finish below us in the standings, and ND beats Lville so that if we take care of business UNC will have to share the regular season championship they care so much about. So for me, cheer, cheer for old Notre Dame!

OK, now that may be a good reason.

BandAlum83
03-02-2017, 12:36 PM
Yeah, I prefer to be a three seed rather than a four seed. UNC has the best record in the ACC. I would be pleased to give a couple of other teams a chance to beat them first.

Kindly,
Sage

So you are just being gracious as host to what used to be affectionately called the Duke Invitational Tournament?

Because what's better then beating the Tarheels twice in one season?

Beating them three times, of course!

CDu
03-02-2017, 12:44 PM
Yeah, I prefer to be a three seed rather than a four seed. UNC has the best record in the ACC. I would be pleased to give a couple of other teams a chance to beat them first.

Kindly,
Sage

Bingo. On top of that, in theory the 6 seed is a worse opponent than the 5, and so on. As a rule of thumb, having a higher seed (meaning a lower number) is better than not.

Newton_14
03-02-2017, 12:59 PM
Bingo. On top of that, in theory the 6 seed is a worse opponent than the 5, and so on. As a rule of thumb, having a higher seed (meaning a lower number) is better than not.

We also want to avoid having to play Wake in the tourney at all costs. I want no part of another game with them this season...

Olympic Fan
03-02-2017, 12:59 PM
For me, the big difference between the No. 3 and No. 4 seed is the gametimes.

The No. 3 seed plays the late game Thursday and Friday night -- that'[s a big deal, especially since the 9 pm listed start time is always bogus (it actually comes 30 minutes after the end of the first game, which starts at 7 p.m.). That means playing at about 9:30 pm Thursday and Friday nights.

The No. 4 seed plays 2 pm (actually 2:30 pm) in Thursday afternoon and at 7 pm Friday night. A MUCH better path for the team.

Actually, until Duke won as the No. 3 seed in 2009, the 3 seed had never won the tournament ... while the 4 seed had won a number of times.

I can see somebody that has to work Thursday afternoon preferring the No. 3 seed, but the team itself is better off as a four.

Plus, I'd prefer to play UNC in the semifinals, when we are still relatively fresh than Saturday night, our third game in three days,

BluDvlsN1
03-02-2017, 01:21 PM
Huge win for Wake. It might even get them into the dance if they can win against Va Tech to close it out. They still probably need to win another game or so in the ACC tourney, but this helped them a lot.

We were at the Wake game last night, this post is relative to fan support only, not standings or
tournament seeds.

For the first 15 min it was like a wake, when you can hear "sneaker squeek" constantly, it's quiet.

We went in expecting more enthusiasm from their fans/students, for their team.

We had trouble discerning where the student section actually was, until very late 2nd half.

Last 5ish min of the first half the place got a heartbeat, it didn't come alive, really alive until that
late 3.

Then it very remotely mimicked Cameron.

It got wild at the end, but I was expecting much more out of their fan base, in general.

I credit their students for 1 foul shot missed,at Cameron Indoor against FSU, I gave the Crazies 5, minimum.

A very good barometer of what we already know.

Everybody else is playing for a distant 2nd in that discussion.

GTHC,GTH

Matches
03-02-2017, 01:46 PM
Actually, until Duke won as the No. 3 seed in 2009, the 3 seed had never won the tournament ... while the 4 seed had won a number of times.



We won it as the 3 seed in 2005 as well.

But totally agreed with your larger point.

Duke79UNLV77
03-02-2017, 01:47 PM
We were at the Wake game last night, this post is relative to fan support only, not standings or
tournament seeds.

For the first 15 min it was like a wake, when you can hear "sneaker squeek" constantly, it's quiet.

We went in expecting more enthusiasm from their fans/students, for their team.

We had trouble discerning where the student section actually was, until very late 2nd half.

Last 5ish min of the first half the place got a heartbeat, it didn't come alive, really alive until that
late 3.

Then it very remotely mimicked Cameron.

It got wild at the end, but I was expecting much more out of their fan base, in general.

I credit their students for 1 foul shot missed,at Cameron Indoor against FSU, I gave the Crazies 5, minimum.

A very good barometer of what we already know.

Everybody else is playing for a distant 2nd in that discussion.

GTHC,GTH

2nd best home crowd in the ACC is whoever is hosting a game against us. 3rd best crowd is up for debate.

BandAlum83
03-02-2017, 01:55 PM
For me, the big difference between the No. 3 and No. 4 seed is the gametimes.

The No. 3 seed plays the late game Thursday and Friday night -- that'[s a big deal, especially since the 9 pm listed start time is always bogus (it actually comes 30 minutes after the end of the first game, which starts at 7 p.m.). That means playing at about 9:30 pm Thursday and Friday nights.

The No. 4 seed plays 2 pm (actually 2:30 pm) in Thursday afternoon and at 7 pm Friday night. A MUCH better path for the team.

Actually, until Duke won as the No. 3 seed in 2009, the 3 seed had never won the tournament ... while the 4 seed had won a number of times.

I can see somebody that has to work Thursday afternoon preferring the No. 3 seed, but the team itself is better off as a four.

Plus, I'd prefer to play UNC in the semifinals, when we are still relatively fresh than Saturday night, our third game in three days,


Great point! So maybe we should root for Louisville?!

Bottom line for me, I'll root for my favorites in any given Saturday matchup because it's all to tangled and we have to beat UNC Saturday night nonetheless.

The ACC tournament starting on Thursday will probably have the quality of games and feel of a sweet 16. The Friday matchups will have quality/ feel of elite 8 and the final should have the feel and quality of a final 4. That's how good the ACC is this year up and down.

Can we get 8 teams to the sweet 16 this year? I think so. I think we can get 5-6 to the elite 8.

I think we can have 2-3 in the final 4. The final could very well be an all ACC affair....or not.

brevity
03-04-2017, 03:56 PM
Insanely prescient that 6 of the 7 ranked ACC teams are paired off in 3 games today.

That 7th team, Virginia, rode an offensive explosion (67 points!) to beat visiting Pitt by 25. They finish at 11-7.

Louisville trying to stay ahead of Notre Dame. They are up 2 with under a minute left. Who am I rooting for again? I'd make some voodoo dolls but it feels religiously wrong somehow.

BandAlum83
03-04-2017, 04:42 PM
Wake really needs this game against VT. It could seal a bid for them by finishing the conference at .500. Unfortunately, they've let VT get off to a quick start with 14 pts in under only 5 minutes. We know Wake can put up big numbers also.

Troublemaker
03-04-2017, 04:58 PM
Wake really needs this game against VT. It could seal a bid for them by finishing the conference at .500. Unfortunately, they've let VT get off to a quick start with 14 pts in under only 5 minutes. We know Wake can put up big numbers also.

Because it's Senior Day for VaTech, they didn't continue with the silly self-imposed impediment of bringing their two best players off the bench. Seniors LeDay and Allen started. Love me some Buzz, but that one's been a head-scratcher.

dukelifer
03-04-2017, 06:40 PM
Wake really needs this game against VT. It could seal a bid for them by finishing the conference at .500. Unfortunately, they've let VT get off to a quick start with 14 pts in under only 5 minutes. We know Wake can put up big numbers also.

Wake is playing well. They figured something out.

Tripping William
03-04-2017, 06:44 PM
Wake is playing well. They figured something out.

And probably just punched their ticket as a result. Another big win for the Swiss.

Olympic Fan
03-04-2017, 06:49 PM
I think Wake and Syracuse both won games they needed to get in the NCAA field.

That means the ACC will get 10 bids.

I think both the 'Cuse and the 'Deacs will be playing next week in Brooklyn to avoid the play-in games in Dayton.