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BG05
02-20-2017, 09:57 AM
Has anyone noticed how hard Duke's conference schedule is?

Against the other top 8 teams in the conference, currently, Duke has home-and-homes with three of them (UNC, Florida State, Miami) and only away games against the rest (Louisville, UVA, ND, Syracuse, VA Tech).

It is amazing -- given the schedule, injuries, K out, Allen suspension -- that they are in the position they are in.

Faustus
02-20-2017, 10:09 AM
Of course on the other hand, as close as the home wins were, maybe we were lucky not to have to play BC, Pitt, and Clemson on the road...

AluminumDuke
02-20-2017, 10:10 AM
Julian made note of this at some point, also pointing out how much easier UNC's schedule is (with most of the same teams you listed only at home and the road-only teams coming from the bottom of the conference standings).

Dev11
02-20-2017, 10:52 AM
Has anyone noticed how hard Duke's conference schedule is?

Against the other top 8 teams in the conference, currently, Duke has home-and-homes with three of them (UNC, Florida State, Miami) and only away games against the rest (Louisville, UVA, ND, Syracuse, VA Tech).

It is amazing -- given the schedule, injuries, K out, Allen suspension -- that they are in the position they are in.

I recommend the Duke Basketball Report podcast. Our own Jason Evans did a lively summary of the injustice (or luck) of Duke's 2017 schedule, particularly how it compares to UNC's.

OldPhiKap
02-20-2017, 10:55 AM
Does that mean we get those teams at home next year? With maybe different home-away partners except UNC?

Ultrarunner
02-20-2017, 11:10 AM
Of course on the other hand, as close as the home wins were, maybe we were lucky not to have to play BC, Pitt, and Clemson on the road...

We've been playing well on the road when the whole team is together. Our road woes are overstated (and magnified by injuries, suspensions, and coaching changes.) I think the fans at ND and VA will agree with me.

flagellaman
02-20-2017, 11:12 AM
With 15 teams in the league maybe we need to consider a 14-game league season. You play every other team once. Then the next year switch home games. That seems like the only way to have a "balanced" schedule.

Devilwin
02-20-2017, 05:54 PM
Don't fret. All we gotta do is win out. Should be easy enough, we are Duke!

jv001
02-20-2017, 06:13 PM
We've been playing well on the road when the whole team is together. Our road woes are overstated (and magnified by injuries, suspensions, and coaching changes.) I think the fans at ND and VA will agree with me.

I get what you're saying regarding Duke's schedule. On the other hand, uncheat still gets the easier schedule. Like OPK, it's going to be interesting to see our 2018 schedule but more importantly uncheats. GoDuke!

subzero02
02-20-2017, 06:31 PM
With 15 teams in the league maybe we need to consider a 14-game league season. You play every other team once. Then the next year switch home games. That seems like the only way to have a "balanced" schedule.

No way that's happening. There would be anarchy if we only played unc once a year.

jv001
02-20-2017, 06:39 PM
No way that's happening. There would be anarchy if we only played unc once a year.

I'm hoping we don't play the cheats at all. I'm holding out they get the death penalty from the NCAA. GoDuke!

DukeandMdFan
02-20-2017, 09:58 PM
With 15 teams in the league maybe we need to consider a 14-game league season. You play every other team once. Then the next year switch home games. That seems like the only way to have a "balanced" schedule.

I would prefer this approach.

Duke and UNC could also play a "non-conference" game every year to ensure each team gets a home rivalry game.

Duke could also schedule "non-conference" games with NC State and Wake in addition to the conference game.

Sure, it would be a little confusing and it cheapens the "non-conference" game(s) against UNC (and NC State and Wake), but it increases the value of the ACC Regular Season.

-jk
02-20-2017, 10:02 PM
I'll dust this one off again... This has been my dream since we got too large for our traditional double round-robin: Split the ACC into two divisions, Upper (8) and Lower (7). Each team plays a double round robin within division (14 or 12 games) and 4 rotating single games across divisions, and maybe one extra game across divisions (call it the ESPN money-game rule for a temporarily down-and-out school - c.f., unc under Doherty). Given the current imbalance, the Lower teams get an out of conference chance to pad their resume. When we choose a 16th team, it'll rebalance.

This leads to killer SOS in the Upper division, and lots of great TV match-ups - and the chance for a strong Lower division team to really stand out. Just imagine a season of double round-robin games with Duke, unc, 'Cuse (ok, maybe not this year), Louisville and four other good teams. That's a bunch of the last dozen NCAA champs. ESPN's wet dream!

Here's where it gets really fun: At the end of the season, the top teams in the Upper division stay Upper and the bottom teams in Lower stay Lower. But the bottom two teams in Upper swap divisions with the top two teams in Lower. Premier League relegation awesomeness. (Watch those one-and-dones!)

The middle of the pack battles in both divisions would go down to the end of the season. No one near the top of Lower would coast down the stretch if they had a chance to move to Upper, and the middle of the Upper would fight dropping down. Almost every game would matter in the last couple weeks of regular season; it wouldn't just be a few key matchups. And ESPN gets to launch "Relegation Week!"

Tourney seeding could be worked out. Maybe just limit the ACC Tourney to the 8 Upper and top 4 Lower schools. Lord knows it couldn't be worse than the five days we have now!

-jk

atoomer0881
02-20-2017, 10:24 PM
I'll dust this one off again... This has been my dream since we got too large for our traditional double round-robin: Split the ACC into two divisions, Upper (8) and Lower (7). Each team plays a double round robin within division (14 or 12 games) and 4 rotating single games across divisions, and maybe one extra game across divisions (call it the ESPN money-game rule for a temporarily down-and-out school - c.f., unc under Doherty). Given the current imbalance, the Lower teams get an out of conference chance to pad their resume. When we choose a 16th team, it'll rebalance.

This leads to killer SOS in the Upper division, and lots of great TV match-ups - and the chance for a strong Lower division team to really stand out. Just imagine a season of double round-robin games with Duke, unc, 'Cuse (ok, maybe not this year), Louisville and four other good teams. That's a bunch of the last dozen NCAA champs. ESPN's wet dream!

Here's where it gets really fun: At the end of the season, the top teams in the Upper division stay Upper and the bottom teams in Lower stay Lower. But the bottom two teams in Upper swap divisions with the top two teams in Lower. Premier League relegation awesomeness. (Watch those one-and-dones!)

The middle of the pack battles in both divisions would go down to the end of the season. No one near the top of Lower would coast down the stretch if they had a chance to move to Upper, and the middle of the Upper would fight dropping down. Almost every game would matter in the last couple weeks of regular season; it wouldn't just be a few key matchups. And ESPN gets to launch "Relegation Week!"

Tourney seeding could be worked out. Maybe just limit the ACC Tourney to the 8 Upper and top 4 Lower schools. Lord knows it couldn't be worse than the five days we have now!

-jk

Just saying if somehow that ever came to fruition, that would legit be awesome. One could wish.

DBFAN
02-20-2017, 10:27 PM
The one good thing it does is prepare us for March. UNC struggles on the road and their schedule will not help them come tourney time. I've noticed all the scheduling stuff, and one other question that I have is how many times has UNC had 1 day rest for another game, compared to other teams in league. I ask that because it shouldn't come as a big surprise that some of those close games Duke had were in 1 day rest. Tonight is a good example, UVA gets one day rest after playing in Chapel Hill, while the Holes get 3 days rest for another home game

BG05
02-20-2017, 10:52 PM
I'll dust this one off again... This has been my dream since we got too large for our traditional double round-robin: Split the ACC into two divisions, Upper (8) and Lower (7). Each team plays a double round robin within division (14 or 12 games) and 4 rotating single games across divisions, and maybe one extra game across divisions (call it the ESPN money-game rule for a temporarily down-and-out school - c.f., unc under Doherty). Given the current imbalance, the Lower teams get an out of conference chance to pad their resume. When we choose a 16th team, it'll rebalance.

This leads to killer SOS in the Upper division, and lots of great TV match-ups - and the chance for a strong Lower division team to really stand out. Just imagine a season of double round-robin games with Duke, unc, 'Cuse (ok, maybe not this year), Louisville and four other good teams. That's a bunch of the last dozen NCAA champs. ESPN's wet dream!

Here's where it gets really fun: At the end of the season, the top teams in the Upper division stay Upper and the bottom teams in Lower stay Lower. But the bottom two teams in Upper swap divisions with the top two teams in Lower. Premier League relegation awesomeness. (Watch those one-and-dones!)

The middle of the pack battles in both divisions would go down to the end of the season. No one near the top of Lower would coast down the stretch if they had a chance to move to Upper, and the middle of the Upper would fight dropping down. Almost every game would matter in the last couple weeks of regular season; it wouldn't just be a few key matchups. And ESPN gets to launch "Relegation Week!"

Tourney seeding could be worked out. Maybe just limit the ACC Tourney to the 8 Upper and top 4 Lower schools. Lord knows it couldn't be worse than the five days we have now!

-jk

I really like this idea.

BandAlum83
02-20-2017, 10:53 PM
I would prefer this approach.

Duke and UNC could also play a "non-conference" game every year to ensure each team gets a home rivalry game.

Duke could also schedule "non-conference" games with NC State and Wake in addition to the conference game.

Sure, it would be a little confusing and it cheapens the "non-conference" game(s) against UNC (and NC State and Wake), but it increases the value of the ACC Regular Season.

Or, we could bring back the Big 4 tournament.

Not really. I'm just getting nostalgic.

camion
02-20-2017, 10:57 PM
I'll dust this one off again... This has been my dream since we got too large for our traditional double round-robin: Split the ACC into two divisions, Upper (8) and Lower (7). Each team plays a double round robin within division (14 or 12 games) and 4 rotating single games across divisions, and maybe one extra game across divisions (call it the ESPN money-game rule for a temporarily down-and-out school - c.f., unc under Doherty). Given the current imbalance, the Lower teams get an out of conference chance to pad their resume. When we choose a 16th team, it'll rebalance.

This leads to killer SOS in the Upper division, and lots of great TV match-ups - and the chance for a strong Lower division team to really stand out. Just imagine a season of double round-robin games with Duke, unc, 'Cuse (ok, maybe not this year), Louisville and four other good teams. That's a bunch of the last dozen NCAA champs. ESPN's wet dream!

Here's where it gets really fun: At the end of the season, the top teams in the Upper division stay Upper and the bottom teams in Lower stay Lower. But the bottom two teams in Upper swap divisions with the top two teams in Lower. Premier League relegation awesomeness. (Watch those one-and-dones!)

The middle of the pack battles in both divisions would go down to the end of the season. No one near the top of Lower would coast down the stretch if they had a chance to move to Upper, and the middle of the Upper would fight dropping down. Almost every game would matter in the last couple weeks of regular season; it wouldn't just be a few key matchups. And ESPN gets to launch "Relegation Week!"

Tourney seeding could be worked out. Maybe just limit the ACC Tourney to the 8 Upper and top 4 Lower schools. Lord knows it couldn't be worse than the five days we have now!

-jk

This would be interesting within the ACC. It might hurt us (the ACC) for NCAA seeding though.

Spanarkel
02-21-2017, 08:00 AM
The one good thing it does is prepare us for March. UNC struggles on the road and their schedule will not help them come tourney time. I've noticed all the scheduling stuff, and one other question that I have is how many times has UNC had 1 day rest for another game, compared to other teams in league. I ask that because it shouldn't come as a big surprise that some of those close games Duke had were in 1 day rest. Tonight is a good example, UVA gets one day rest after playing in Chapel Hill, while the Holes get 3 days rest for another home game

Duke, UNC and Louisville all have 3 occasions this season when they play ACC contests with one day off in between, while UVa has 2 such occasions. I didn't check the other 11 ACC teams' schedules.

OldPhiKap
02-21-2017, 08:10 AM
Does that mean we get those teams at home next year? With maybe different home-away partners except UNC?

Bumping my question in case anyone knows the answer.

Troublemaker
02-21-2017, 08:23 AM
Has anyone noticed how hard Duke's conference schedule is?

Against the other top 8 teams in the conference, currently, Duke has home-and-homes with three of them (UNC, Florida State, Miami) and only away games against the rest (Louisville, UVA, ND, Syracuse, VA Tech).

It is amazing -- given the schedule, injuries, K out, Allen suspension -- that they are in the position they are in.


Does that mean we get those teams at home next year? With maybe different home-away partners except UNC?


Bumping my question in case anyone knows the answer.

That is correct, OPK. Schedule below - link to source (http://www.theacc.com/news/acc-releases-men-conference-basketball-matchups-02-12-2016). One minor addition, though. Both UNC and Wake Forest are dance partners of ours, not just UNC. Every ACC team has two permanent dance partners that they play home and away every single season. For Duke, they are UNC and WFU.

Duke 2017-18
Home/Road: North Carolina , Wake Forest , Virginia Tech, Pitt
Home: Florida State, Virginia, Louisville, Syracuse, Notre Dame
Road: Miami, Georgia Tech, Clemson, NC State, Boston College

Troublemaker
02-21-2017, 08:37 AM
That is correct, OPK. Schedule below - link to source (http://www.theacc.com/news/acc-releases-men-conference-basketball-matchups-02-12-2016). One minor addition, though. Both UNC and Wake Forest are dance partners of ours, not just UNC. Every ACC team has two permanent dance partners that they play home and away every single season. For Duke, they are UNC and WFU.

Duke 2017-18
Home/Road: North Carolina , Wake Forest , Virginia Tech, Pitt
Home: Florida State, Virginia, Louisville, Syracuse, Notre Dame
Road: Miami, Georgia Tech, Clemson, NC State, Boston College

Further explanation, since I like doing schedule analysis. The bolded underlined above are the 4 teams we play home and away THIS season. You can see that FSU becomes a home-only opponent for next season and Miami becomes road-only. UNC and WFU stick around as home/road opponents as mentioned, and VaTech and Pitt (in red) move in to replace FSU and Miami.

Incidentally, that schedule looks really nice as of right now for contending for the regular season crown in 2017-18.

Give me Trevon Duval, and oh yeah, freaking HEALTH, and we should be the ACC favorites next season.

OldPhiKap
02-21-2017, 08:53 AM
That is correct, OPK. Schedule below - link to source (http://www.theacc.com/news/acc-releases-men-conference-basketball-matchups-02-12-2016). One minor addition, though. Both UNC and Wake Forest are dance partners of ours, not just UNC. Every ACC team has two permanent dance partners that they play home and away every single season. For Duke, they are UNC and WFU.

Duke 2017-18
Home/Road: North Carolina , Wake Forest , Virginia Tech, Pitt
Home: Florida State, Virginia, Louisville, Syracuse, Notre Dame
Road: Miami, Georgia Tech, Clemson, NC State, Boston College

Thanks, Troublemaker. As long as the pendulum swings back next year, I guess I'm okay with the schedule. You can't really predict a few years out who will be good and who will struggle. And permanent home/aways with UNC and Wake are fine with me. Would love to add State as a third, and then rotate the fourth.

Troublemaker
02-21-2017, 09:03 AM
List of each schools's two dance partners (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_Coast_Conference_men%27s_basketball#Sched uling_Partners)

They will likely remain the same when the ACC expands to a 20-game conference schedule in 2019-2020. (What could happen is that each school could get a third permanent dance partner, though.)

Dance partners for the Top 4 ACC Programs -- which UNC could be evicted from soon if the Hammer of Thor drops on them.

Duke - UNC, WFU
UNC - Duke, NCSU
UVA - Lville, VaTech
Lville - UVA, Pitt

It's good that UVA and Louisville have to play each other twice every season since Duke and UNC have to play each other twice every season. If UVA continues to own Louisville, though, that is a slight schedule advantage for them. Hopefully Pitino can adapt and work his way into that rivalry a bit.

Then, it becomes about the second dance partner for each school. With Manning and Buzz having WFU and VaTech on the rise, respectively, Duke and UVA will have to hope that NCSU and Pitt can get straightened out so that UNC and Louisville don't have a schedule advantage with the second dance partner. Hopefully NCSU can land Archie or Gregg Marshall or whomever is most popular on PackPride's wish list. And then hopefully Stallings can rebuild Pitt quickly after Artis and Young graduate after this season.

UrinalCake
02-21-2017, 09:44 AM
Is there a way to do an RPI SOS type analysis of just the conference part of our schedule? Would be nice to do this for each of the top teams and then be able to objectively compare who has the harder schedule.