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View Full Version : DBR Podcast #72 - UVA, Wake, and a look ahead in the ACC race



JasonEvans
02-19-2017, 09:39 PM
https://soundcloud.com/dbrpodcast/dbr-podcast-72-recapping-uva-and-wake-and-looking-ahead-to-the-acc-final-weeks

0:00 We laugh at the fact that Sam is feeling fine.
1:20 Recap of the UVA game, aka: The Jayson Tatum Show. Sam makes a great observation about how Duke adapts to different styles of play.
10:40 Recap of the Wake game, sks: The John Collins Show (even though he lost). Jason thinks Duke gave up on even trying to play defense in this game.
17:10 What is up with Giles and Bolden’s minutes?
18:30 Time to chat about whether Coach K should rest Jefferson and Allen to heal their injuries.
27:00 Donald makes an amazing connection between the 2001, 2010, and 2015 national champs… and talks about how he wants to see something similar from Duke this season.
33:05 Jason uses someone else’s research to talk about the ACC race and why the regular season race is so absurdly imbalanced.
37:50 Fun question of the week – if not Duke, who would you want to win the ACC. No votes for Carolina, but lots of love for Virginia.
42:30 Jason previews Syracuse and their transfer shooter, Andrew White III
50:50 Donald wants us to tell him one key to win the rematch with Miami
55:15 Time to talk about the dumpster fire that is NC State and the decision to axe their coach with several games left on their schedule.
1:03:50 Jason has a crazy thought… is the State job interesting because UNC may be about to get the NCAA hammer?
1:07:55 Kyrie Irving and the Earth is Flat… we find this whole thing hysterical.
1:12:30 Player of the week… Tatum with the sweep!
1:14:00 Parting Shot – Jason on Kyrie as Uncle Drew
1:16:50 Parting Shot – Sam on Duke Lacrosse and Luke Kennard’s father’s headwear
1:18:55 Parting Shot – Donald on Jeff Capel Sr. joining the coaching staff on the bench for the Wake game
1:21:10 All done and Duke band!

Bob Green
02-20-2017, 07:17 AM
You guys did an excellent job with this edition of the podcast. A few comments:

1. I agree with Jason 100 percent on defensive philosophy against Wake - a decision was made to forego defense and try to outscore the Deacs.
2. Harry Giles played four (4) minutes against Wake and was whistled for three (3) fouls. A player isn't going to see increased minutes when fouling that often.
3. The home/road schedule discussion is interesting but irrelevant because with the unbalanced schedule the inequality is going to happen every year and some team is going to get a home advantage (Carolina this year) while another team is going to have to earn it on the road (Duke this year). This topic is stereotypical sports radio fodder.
4. Who do I want to win the ACC (if not Duke) - it has to be Virginia. Wake is an interesting option but I find them too chippy so I can't root for them.
5. Grad transfers are something we will probably never see at Duke due to Coach K's highly successful recruiting, but this is a rules loophole (no requirement to sit out) I hope Duke football can take advantage of as often as needed.

Okay, I'm still listening...

Bob Green
02-20-2017, 07:50 AM
I've finished listening now and have one final comment:

Is State job attractive due to impending sanctions at Carolina? Jason, you're really reaching here. Carolina has struggled to recruit the past few years due to the academic scandal but I haven't noticed State reaping benefits on the recruiting trail. State is a dumpster fire program with a delusional fan base. Whoever the next coach is, and I agree with you it will not be Archie Miller, has a tough row to hoe.

Once again, great job guys!

Skitzle
02-20-2017, 08:26 AM
How do you talk about important surprise players in 2010 and not mention Dawkins? :)

CDu
02-20-2017, 08:39 AM
1. I agree with Jason 100 percent on defensive philosophy against Wake - a decision was made to forego defense and try to outscore the Deacs.

I disagree. That runs counter to everything Coach K believes in. They tried something different. It didn't work. That doesn't mean that they gave up trying to play defense.

Furthermore, what does "foregoing defense" give you in terms of focusing on the other end of the floor? Unless you just stand still, it's hard to see how any strategy short of expending no energy would be helpful for you on offense. And they clearly were still expending energy on defense.

They were still very much trying. Just unsuccessfully.

Bob Green
02-20-2017, 09:07 AM
I disagree...Unless you just stand still, it's hard to see how any strategy short of expending no energy would be helpful for you on offense.

I'll state my opinion differently. A decision was made to concede easy 2 PT baskets to Wake Forest to ensure their jump shooters did not take and make 3 PT baskets.

The announcers commented during the game that Wake couldn't catch up trading 2s for 3s and Coach K's post game comments indicated the same.

CDu
02-20-2017, 09:14 AM
I'll state my opinion differently. A decision was made to concede easy 2 PT baskets to Wake Forest to ensure their jump shooters did not take and make 3 PT baskets.

The announcers commented during the game that Wake couldn't catch up trading 2s for 3s and Coach K's post game comments indicated the same.

I kind of get the feeling that was Coach K trying to gloss over a bad defensive performance rather than say "we stunk on defense". I think this for a few reasons:

1. It isn't like we were just chucking 3s the entire second half. We also took a lot of possessions shooting 2s.
2. Wake wasn't making 3s (they were just 5-17). It seems strange to make it a gameplan to take away what they were doing poorly and give them what they were doing well. I think we'd have been better off forcing them to shoot and miss 3s than to allow them to make layups at an 80% rate.
3. We were still TRYING to defend inside. We just weren't doing it at all well.

I mean, it's possible that the strategy was to allow them to score 1.4 points per possession. But that seems really weird. Wake would have had to shoot almost 50% on 3s to match that level of efficiency that we allowed on mostly 2s. It is exceedingly unlikely that Wake would shoot that well from 3. Conversely, it required that we hit at an obscenely high efficiency rate to win. Which, thankfully, we did. But I can't really believe that this was the gameplan.

smythe13
02-20-2017, 09:47 AM
This Duke team needs Marques Bolden to emerge and give them an inside presence on both offense and defense.

Bob Green
02-20-2017, 09:54 AM
State is a dumpster fire program with a delusional fan base. Whoever the next coach is, and I agree with you it will not be Archie Miller, has a tough row to hoe.

I just read the Al Featherston article on the front page which aligns with one of the podcast topics:

Why Does the Media Hate NC State? Can State be great again? Of course it can. (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/2017/2/20/14666072/why-does-the-media-hate-nc-state-ac-basketball)


The prevailing attitude seems to be that they are “delusional” to think that N.C. State could ever challenge Duke, UNC and the rest of the national elite. They ought to be content with mediocrity – especially the mediocrity that Herb Sendek brought in his decade at the helm.

While Al's article focuses on media members, my attitude as a rival fan is the same as those media members who anger Al.

My approach to the State situation is not, "Can State be great again?" My approach is, "Will State be great again?" I believe the answer is a sound no, at least in the short term. Certainly they can be great again with the right hire as head coach, but my prediction is State is about to suffer through another disappointing coaching search.

Seth Greenberg?

budwom
02-20-2017, 10:00 AM
I kind of get the feeling that was Coach K trying to gloss over a bad defensive performance rather than say "we stunk on defense". I think this for a few reasons:

1. It isn't like we were just chucking 3s the entire second half. We also took a lot of possessions shooting 2s.
2. Wake wasn't making 3s (they were just 5-17). It seems strange to make it a gameplan to take away what they were doing poorly and give them what they were doing well. I think we'd have been better off forcing them to shoot and miss 3s than to allow them to make layups at an 80% rate.
3. We were still TRYING to defend inside. We just weren't doing it at all well.

I mean, it's possible that the strategy was to allow them to score 1.4 points per possession. But that seems really weird. Wake would have had to shoot almost 50% on 3s to match that level of efficiency that we allowed on mostly 2s. It is exceedingly unlikely that Wake would shoot that well from 3. Conversely, it required that we hit at an obscenely high efficiency rate to win. Which, thankfully, we did. But I can't really believe that this was the gameplan.

I agree on point #2....it was just painful to watch them shoot layups all afternoon, especially with Collins being repeatedly guarded by one of our guards.
I also agree with the conclusion of yours, that they'd have had to shoot remarkably well from three to exceed their achieved productivity on 2s.

If you told me ahead of time we'd scorr 99, I'd have said we'd win by 15-20 points.

JasonEvans
02-20-2017, 10:39 AM
How do you talk about important surprise players in 2010 and not mention Dawkins? :)

We were talking about guys who stepped up -- seemingly out of nowhere -- late in the season. Dawkins was strong for Duke early in the 2010 but his role actually diminished as the season went along.

Donald was pointing out guys like Casey Sanders, Reggie Love, Brian Zoubek, and Grayson Allen who went from small bench roles to major sparks late in the year or in the NCAA tournament.

-Jason "Giles and Bolden would both seem to be potential candidates for this role this season" Evans

Dev11
02-20-2017, 10:45 AM
We were talking about guys who stepped up -- seemingly out of nowhere -- late in the season. Dawkins was strong for Duke early in the 2010 but his role actually diminished as the season went along.

Donald was pointing out guys like Casey Sanders, Reggie Love, Brian Zoubek, and Grayson Allen who went from small bench roles to major sparks late in the year or in the NCAA tournament.

-Jason "Giles and Bolden would both seem to be potential candidates for this role this season" Evans

Agree with Jason on the nature of the discussion, although there's never a bad time to remember the Baylor game. Without Dawkins, Duke doesn't sniff the Final Four. That said, it's not like his usage in that game was out of the ordinary, just that he made the big shots.

CDu
02-20-2017, 10:54 AM
I agree on point #2...it was just painful to watch them shoot layups all afternoon, especially with Collins being repeatedly guarded by one of our guards.
I also agree with the conclusion of yours, that they'd have had to shoot remarkably well from three to exceed their achieved productivity on 2s.

If you told me ahead of time we'd score 99, I'd have said we'd win by 15-20 points.

Yeah, that's the thing for me. We only managed to win because our offense was unbelievably good. And even still, we were a relatively easy missed Crawford layup (the first one, not the second one) from trailing with about 30 seconds to go. So if it was indeed our strategy to just let them have easy twos, then that seems a dumb strategy that almost cost us.

But I really don't think the strategy was to allow them easy 2s. I think we were trying to find a way to prevent easy drives and wide open 3s. So maybe we were trying to force them to shoot 2s and not 3s (which is always our strategy). But we were still trying to prevent baskets. But I can't imagine we were intentionally allowing easy 2s. I think ultimately we just couldn't stop Wake either way. I don't think it was by our design that Wake got easy shots. They just were able to beat our defense, regardless of what defense we tried. Fortunately, Crawford missed that driving layup that would have put the pressure on us to make or lose.

brevity
02-20-2017, 12:36 PM
My approach to the State situation is not, "Can State be great again?" My approach is, "Will State be great again?" I believe the answer is a sound no, at least in the short term. Certainly they can be great again with the right hire as head coach, but my prediction is State is about to suffer through another disappointing coaching search.

Not sure if this thread is the best place to discuss the NC State coaching search, but the Gott-fired thread (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?39490) is withering at the bottom of Page 2.

I think NC State will compete regularly for the ACC's top tier 2 head coaches from now -- under Mark Gottfried's successor's successor -- which could mean we're in agreement. There eventually should be a power vacuum within the ACC in general, and NC State might take advantage of that, but I am not as confident as others that there will be a large power shift along Tobacco Road. In other words, I don't see Duke and an unpunished UNC falling apart so easily.

Let's say Coach K and Roy Williams both retire before 2025, and let's choose the least creative options as their replacements: Jeff Capel and Hubert Davis. By the time of each transition, some or most of each coaching staff is retained. One could reasonably predict sequel-like behavior: a lesser imitation of the original, but still popular because of name recognition. Recruiting takes a small hit, and conference wins aren't quite as plentiful. But not exactly hard times in Durham and Chapel Hill.

As for finding NC State's next coach -- the stopgap, the hire before the good hire -- I think the job has just enough to offer the less finicky, so Debbie Yow needs to move on after a brief but diligent effort to court the more finicky, Archie Miller and Gregg Marshall.

brlftz
02-20-2017, 01:10 PM
State's in a worse spot than duke after foster, but might want to try a similar strategy. Don't go after a retread with a low ceiling, or a big name pipe dream, find someone young and hungry.

BandAlum83
02-20-2017, 01:26 PM
State's in a worse spot than duke after foster, but might want to try a similar strategy. Don't go after a retread with a low ceiling, or a big name pipe dream, find someone young and hungry.

I agree with this.

I just watched a bit of ESPN classic 1990 Duke GT game. It got me thinking back to when Valvano, Cremmins and K came into the league. Talk about young and hungry!

Those were some good days in the ACC.

UrinalCake
02-20-2017, 02:20 PM
You're missing the most important factor that our last three title teams had in common, which is having an incoming transfer player sitting on the bench. If not for Dahntay Jones (2001), Seth Curry (2010), or Sean Obi (2015) these teams would have never brought home the banners!

Dev11
02-20-2017, 04:15 PM
You're missing the most important factor that our last three title teams had in common, which is having an incoming transfer player sitting on the bench. If not for Dahntay Jones (2001), Seth Curry (2010), or Sean Obi (2015) these teams would have never brought home the banners!

My sources tell me that Jack White is basically Lonzo Ball in practice. Duke should be in great shape.

duke4ever19
02-20-2017, 04:40 PM
My sources tell me that Jack White is basically Lonzo Ball in practice. Duke should be in great shape.

Are they the same sources tantalizing us with tales of Sean Obi being a rebound machine? ;)

http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?36491-Sean-Obi-lookin-good

BandAlum83
02-20-2017, 05:49 PM
My sources tell me that Jack White is basically Lonzo Ball in practice. Duke should be in great shape.

I heard similar type of praise for Weldon Williams in practice. He never got any burn..

jv001
02-20-2017, 06:04 PM
I heard similar type of praise for Weldon Williams in practice. He never got any burn..

Not to mention play in summer league games. GoDuke!

BandAlum83
02-20-2017, 06:28 PM
BTW, sound levels were much better for this episode. My ears thank you, as I usually listen with earbuds.

You could have even gone a smidge louder on the DUMB transitions. Just a smidge!

JasonEvans
02-21-2017, 10:58 AM
BTW, sound levels were much better for this episode. My ears thank you, as I usually listen with earbuds.

You could have even gone a smidge louder on the DUMB transitions. Just a smidge!

Sigh... there's just no pleasing some people ;)

BandAlum83
02-21-2017, 11:03 AM
Sigh... there's just no pleasing some people ;)

I was pleased. But do realize my screen name here. :)


Love me some DUMB!

OldPhiKap
02-21-2017, 11:44 AM
Personally, I would like more cowbell.