K ponders holding Amile and Grayson out

[Olympic Fan]

A VERY interesting sequence in today's postgame -- Krzyzewski carried on an internal debate about whether or not he should hold Amile and Grayson out of games down the stretch of the regular
season.

First, he confirmed that neither player has been able to practice because of foot/ankle injuries. He talked about how the injury is really impacting Grayson's level of play and he joked about Amile limping up and down the court. Then, on his own (not in response to as question), he said:

"I could do something a little bit different with my team, during the next week or so. I've got to get these guys healthy. We'll see -- a day and a half, two days -- what we can do. But we've put ourselves in the bigger picture here and I can't afford to lose any of these guys, now that we have them. I'm thinking out loud right now.

"I know if I was a pro coach I would not play them for a couple of weeks because we're in the playoffs. But I don't think I can do that. I've got to talk to these two guys and take a vote. I'll be like the vice president -- I can break the tie. But I'll only do it for the best interests of our country."

So what should he do -- hold Grayson and Amile out for the next two weeks and let them get healthy again -- at the almost certain cost of losing the ACC regular season title and a 1 or 2 seed in the NCAA Tournament? Or keep going like he has for the last weeks and risk their health for postseason for regular season goals?

[OldPhiKap]

The PC is definitely worth watching. As always.

K seems much more rambly since he came back from surgery.

[jv001]

A VERY interesting sequence in today's postgame -- Krzyzewski carried on an internal debate about whether or not he should hold Amile and Grayson out of games down the stretch of the regular
season.

First, he confirmed that neither player has been able to practice because of foot/ankle injuries. He talked about how the injury is really impacting Grayson's level of play and he joked about Amile limping up and down the court. Then, on his own (not in response to as question), he said:

"I could do something a little bit different with my team, during the next week or so. I've got to get these guys healthy. We'll see -- a day and a half, two days -- what we can do. But we've put ourselves in the bigger picture here and I can't afford to lose any of these guys, now that we have them. I'm thinking out loud right now.

"I know if I was a pro coach I would not play them for a couple of weeks because we're in the playoffs. But I don't think I can do that. I've got to talk to these two guys and take a vote. I'll be like the vice president -- I can break the tie. But I'll only do it for the best interests of our country."

So what should he do -- hold Grayson and Amile out for the next two weeks and let them get healthy again -- at the almost certain cost of losing the ACC regular season title and a 1 or 2 seed in the NCAA Tournament? Or keep going like he has for the last weeks and risk their health for postseason for regular season goals?

I'm betting you get some really amazing posts on this subject. I'll have to think about it for a while and then I'll get back with you on this one. Good thread though. GoDuke!

[jv001]

The PC is definitely worth watching. As always.

K seems much more rambly since he came back from surgery.

Good Pain medicine, :cool: GoDuke!

[uh_no]

So what should he do -- hold Grayson and Amile out for the next two weeks and let them get healthy again -- at the almost certain cost of losing the ACC regular season title and a 1 or 2 seed in the NCAA Tournament? Or keep going like he has for the last weeks and risk their health for postseason for regular season goals?

is anyone over in that great med school working on cloning? disposable grayson would be as good a disposable razors...you get a fresh healthy one every game!

[ipatent]

Are K and Dean still tied with 13 ACC Tourney titles?

[TKG]

In an interview with Charlie Rose after the 2001 NC, K talked about the regular season being a rehearsal for March. To a direct question from CR, K answered he is playing for March every year. If K still holds to that philosophy, then he should rest AJ and GA so that the team is at full strength for the NCAAs.

[OldPhiKap]

In an interview with Charlie Rose after the 2001 NC, K talked about the regular season being a rehearsal for March. To a direct question from CR, K answered he is playing for March every year. If K still holds to that philosophy, then he should rest AJ and GA so that the team is at full strength for the NCAAs.

Yeah, but seeding counts too.

[jv001]

Ok, I'm ready to take a shot at this. Play Frank the rest of the regular season and use Matt, Luke and Jayson as the perimeter players. Go with Amile and one of Giles and Marques in the starting lineup. Amile seems to be doing pretty good playing hurt and I don't know if he can recover in 2 weeks. My money says; Coach K likes to win too much to sit both or even one. I believe he wants to win every game and not go the NBA route. GoDuke!

[Bob Green]

So what should he do -- hold Grayson and Amile out for the next two weeks and let them get healthy again -- at the almost certain cost of losing the ACC regular season title and a 1 or 2 seed in the NCAA Tournament? Or keep going like he has for the last weeks and risk their health for postseason for regular season goals?

I'd recommend a middle ground. Coach K definitely needs to get Grayson and Amile healthy but I wouldn't sit them out for two full weeks. A solid path forward would be to sit them for a game or two followed by playing them less minutes for a game or two. This does not have to be a binary decision as there are middle ground options.

[OldPhiKap]

I wonder if this is K's Jedi mind trick to get Frank, Harry and Marquis motivated to step it up a level. Minutes may be available if you show me you are ready.

[YmoBeThere]

A solid path forward would be to sit them for a game or two followed by playing them less minutes for a game or two. This does not have to be a binary decision as there are middle ground options.

This is generally Popovich's approach with the Spurs veterans every year.

[brlftz]

Sit 'em as long as you can without losing cohesiveness. Seeding is less important than health. If we're winning a title we have to beat great teams anyway, whether we do it in the elite 8 or the sweet 16 doesn't matter.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Can't spork OF for bringing those comments into the limelight, but, ooooh, this will be interesting to watch. I would assume that both Grayson and Amile would vote to play. That's the athlete's (and a star's) nature..."put me in, Coach!"; then again, K is a great salesman. Maybe he convinces them to rest now, and think strongly about another ring.
Maybe they say "Ok, we'll sit...but not in the Dean Dome...that bench isn't comfy".

[brevity]

This is generally Popovich's approach with the Spurs veterans every year.

"DNP-Old"

Maybe we've been looking at recent games all wrong. When Coach K goes to his bench more in the first half than second half, it's not an issue of him being more restrictive later in the game. Instead it's about him being more inclusive early in the game than he would prefer, thereby giving his injured starters some rest.

[FadedTackyShirt]

I wonder if this is K's Jedi mind trick to get Frank, Harry and Marquis motivated to step it up a level. Minutes may be available if you show me you are ready.

Grayson & Amile could both use some rest, but also think K wants to lengthen his rotation to 7. Let Harry & Bolden fight it out for the last spot.

K thought they'd have to beat Wake via offense rather than defense today. Gives up too much on offense with Vrank relative to Harry or Bolden. Has roughly 4 weeks to sort out the last piece in the rotation.

Wake's a good team, but Duke will be playing better opponents from the second round onward.

[Wander]

I'd recommend a middle ground. Coach K definitely needs to get Grayson and Amile healthy but I wouldn't sit them out for two full weeks. A solid path forward would be to sit them for a game or two followed by playing them less minutes for a game or two. This does not have to be a binary decision as there are middle ground options.

It's a good point, but the risk is that "playing less minutes" may be the worst of both worlds. We have a tough 4 game stretch to close out the season... playing these two guys for only half their usual minutes or less could easily lead to losses.

I guess I would lean towards what K is doing now and just holding them out of practice. Injuries have really messed up this season, even still...

[Edouble]

Sit Grayson and Amile.

Run Orange with a back line of Bolden, Giles and Tatum, alongside Jackson and Jones.

[MChambers]

Sit Grayson and Amile.

Run Orange with a back line of Bolden, Giles and Tatum, alongside Jackson and Jones.

Are you also giving Luke a game off?

[Dukehky]

I think this would be a good thing for all parties involved. Jefferson and Allen get some rest, and Bolden and Marques get the chance to earn minutes moving forward. See if the pressure of being THE guys down low gets them to bring their A games and earn more rotation minutes moving forward.

Sure if we lose a couple games, we won't win the ACC Title (meaningless, thank you unbalanced schedule). But it will give Marques and Harry the chance to get more game minutes that they missed earlier in the season.



BUT we all know how much K hates to lose and how crazy Allen and Jefferson are. They are going to play.

[bloodevil]

"I know if I was a pro coach I would not play them for a couple of weeks because we're in the playoffs. But I don't think I can do that. I've got to talk to these two guys and take a vote. I'll be like the vice president -- I can break the tie. But I'll only do it for the best interests of our country."

- GOAT

[Saratoga2]

Getting Grayson and Amile back to nearly full health and capability in time for the tournaments is a laudable goal and perhaps would give us the best chance of optimum performance but clearly runs the risk of coming into the tournament as a lower seed. Tough balance but there may be other negatives and positives associated with it.

If we rest Grayson and Amile, we wind up playing Luke, Jayson, Matt and Frank more minutes and risking greater fatigue or a higher risk for injury for them. Since three of them have been playing heavy minutes anyway, the player going up in minutes is Frank. We have Harry and Marques to man the back line and they certainly could use more PT and perhaps gain experience that could be very beneficial in the tournament. We have Javin and Jack to provide additional backup if we get into foul trouble and then there is Vrank. I don't expect to see Chase back as I understand he is still recovering from injury.

So it is a matter of what coach K believes he can gain versus what he thinks will be the negatives. He is closest to the situation so he is the right guy to make those decisions. I will refrain from criticizing any move he thinks will give us the best chance.

[UrinalCake]

Based on the quality of opponent and being at home, today would have been the day to rest them. Trying to beat Syracuse or Miami on the road without them will be tough. Losing one of those games means we likely have no shot at catching UNC in the regular season race, though the biggest concern would be falling out of the top 4 and having to play an extra round in the ACCT.

I don't think it's in K's nature to sit players, and I'm actually really shocked that he said as much as he did in the press conference. Maybe he'll try to limit their minutes in the next two games but when it comes to winning time he's going to ride his best players.

[DBFAN]

I don't know, maybe this is just his way of saying he thinks Bolden and Giles are physically ready to contribute more. I only say that because if the passing comment of him saying he can do a few things with the team. It could very well be that when he said at beginning of year that he wanted to make absolutely sure that Bolden and Crew didn't play until completely healthy may indeed be what he meant

[gam7]

A VERY interesting sequence in today's postgame -- Krzyzewski carried on an internal debate about whether or not he should hold Amile and Grayson out of games down the stretch of the regular
season.

First, he confirmed that neither player has been able to practice because of foot/ankle injuries. He talked about how the injury is really impacting Grayson's level of play and he joked about Amile limping up and down the court. Then, on his own (not in response to as question), he said:

"I could do something a little bit different with my team, during the next week or so. I've got to get these guys healthy. We'll see -- a day and a half, two days -- what we can do. But we've put ourselves in the bigger picture here and I can't afford to lose any of these guys, now that we have them. I'm thinking out loud right now.

"I know if I was a pro coach I would not play them for a couple of weeks because we're in the playoffs. But I don't think I can do that. I've got to talk to these two guys and take a vote. I'll be like the vice president -- I can break the tie. But I'll only do it for the best interests of our country."

So what should he do -- hold Grayson and Amile out for the next two weeks and let them get healthy again -- at the almost certain cost of losing the ACC regular season title and a 1 or 2 seed in the NCAA Tournament? Or keep going like he has for the last weeks and risk their health for postseason for regular season goals?


Can't spork OF for bringing those comments into the limelight, but, ooooh, this will be interesting to watch. I would assume that both Grayson and Amile would vote to play. That's the athlete's (and a star's) nature..."put me in, Coach!"; then again, K is a great salesman. Maybe he convinces them to rest now, and think strongly about another ring.
Maybe they say "Ok, we'll sit...but not in the Dean Dome...that bench isn't comfy".

The "two guys" he was referring to were the pro/con (angel/devil) on each of his shoulders. He wasn't saying he was going to talk to Grayson and Amile and then make a tiebreaking vote based on what they decide, as the quote suggested (though I'm sure he'll talk to them too). This decision is on Coach.

If sitting for a game is going to help in a material way, I think i'm in favor of it in the syracuse game. I think we need everyone to deal with miami's picking and rolling, plus it would be nice to get a game in before FSU and UNC.

[Newton_14]

Grayson & Amile could both use some rest, but also think K wants to lengthen his rotation to 7. Let Harry & Bolden fight it out for the last spot.

K thought they'd have to beat Wake via offense rather than defense today. Gives up too much on offense with Vrank relative to Harry or Bolden. Has roughly 4 weeks to sort out the last piece in the rotation.

Wake's a good team, but Duke will be playing better opponents from the second round onward.

Like the other night at UVA, I thought Harry and Bolden should have played in the 2nd half today. Our play did not drop off at all today when those two guys were in. Our defense was nonexistent from the open tip til the Wake layup at the final horn today, so playing both in the second half similar minutes they got in the first half and resting Amile likely doesn't hurt us at all.

I hope K does come up with a plan to rest both guys and get them as fresh as possible for the two tourney's. It will for sure increase the risk for losing though. At this point in the season, it will be easier to rest Amile than Grayson unlike earlier in the season when Harry and Bolden were not ready. I think those two guys are ready now and along with Vrank if needed, can do the job well enough for us to win. Grayson is a bit of a different story. Resting him means Frank pretty much has to go the full 40 at PG, and Matt, Luke, Bolden have to join him unless we steal minutes by playing Harry & Bolden together, and/or Harry/Bolden/Tatum together if we are forced to sit either of Matt & Luke. The only other alternative would be using Jack and/or Javin for limited minutes with Javin at the 4 spot.

I am very intrigued by this revelation (thanks much Oly), and I look forward to the next two weeks to see exactly what K comes up with. It's going to be very interesting... A big part of me really wants to run the table from here on out so I hope whatever K comes up with ends up working really well!

[HDB]

Based on the quality of opponent and being at home, today would have been the day to rest them. Trying to beat Syracuse or Miami on the road without them will be tough. Losing one of those games means we likely have no shot at catching UNC in the regular season race, though the biggest concern would be falling out of the top 4 and having to play an extra round in the ACCT.

I don't think it's in K's nature to sit players, and I'm actually really shocked that he said as much as he did in the press conference. Maybe he'll try to limit their minutes in the next two games but when it comes to winning time he's going to ride his best players.

Maybe you play them both through the end of the regular season to get the best NCAA seed, then sit them for the ACC tourney. I know K loves to win the ACC tourney, but that could be a grueling test of three games in 3 days for Amile and Grayson. Let them sit it out and then they get two weeks of rest after the UNC game before first round of NCAA.

[NM Duke Fan]

Ok, I'm ready to take a shot at this. Play Frank the rest of the regular season and use Matt, Luke and Jayson as the perimeter players. Go with Amile and one of Giles and Marques in the starting lineup. Amile seems to be doing pretty good playing hurt and I don't know if he can recover in 2 weeks. My money says; Coach K likes to win too much to sit both or even one. I believe he wants to win every game and not go the NBA route. GoDuke!


This! Rest Grayson totally for a spell, play Amile reduced minutes, with more for Giles, Bolden, etc. A sort of middle ground. Not convinced relatively brief rest will do that much good for Amile, could do a lot for Grayson.

[Ultrarunner]

Based on the quality of opponent and being at home, today would have been the day to rest them. Trying to beat Syracuse or Miami on the road without them will be tough. Losing one of those games means we likely have no shot at catching UNC in the regular season race, though the biggest concern would be falling out of the top 4 and having to play an extra round in the ACCT.

I don't think it's in K's nature to sit players, and I'm actually really shocked that he said as much as he did in the press conference. Maybe he'll try to limit their minutes in the next two games but when it comes to winning time he's going to ride his best players.

I'd be interested in seeing Jack White against the 'Cuse zone. Can he hit from the middle of it? That would give us three guys, the shortest of which is Kennard, to try to break it down, with the other two competent from three. If I'm resting Grayson, that's the game. When Frank is in, have him penetrate and dish.
Random thoughts . . .

[Devilwin]

Frank is to the point where he can spell Grayson for a couple of games. Giles and Bolden not so much for Amile..:confused:

[Troublemaker]

I'm sure there is a lot more nuance and complexity to the decision behind the scenes, because the way it is framed in the press conference, there is no real decision.

You would obviously rest them to get them healthy.

[hsheffield]

since I am driving to Miami for the game, I say play 'em.

sorry: I haven't seen a game in person for YEARS.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

We saw them play in Miami last year. It did not go well.....

[JD for Three!]

I have always liked to win the regular season. It's a mark of surviving a long and tough journey. As far as the tournament, and I do love it, there are years I have been happy to see us lose early because I hoped it would give us time to rest and heal before the real prize is on the line.

[BandAlum83]

Like the other night at UVA, I thought Harry and Bolden should have played in the 2nd half today. Our play did not drop off at all today when those two guys were in. Our defense was nonexistent from the open tip til the Wake layup at the final horn today, so playing both in the second half similar minutes they got in the first half and resting Amile likely doesn't hurt us at all.

I hope K does come up with a plan to rest both guys and get them as fresh as possible for the two tourney's. It will for sure increase the risk for losing though. At this point in the season, it will be easier to rest Amile than Grayson unlike earlier in the season when Harry and Bolden were not ready. I think those two guys are ready now and along with Vrank if needed, can do the job well enough for us to win. Grayson is a bit of a different story. Resting him means Frank pretty much has to go the full 40 at PG, and Matt, Luke, Bolden have to join him unless we steal minutes by playing Harry & Bolden together, and/or Harry/Bolden/Tatum together if we are forced to sit either of Matt & Luke. The only other alternative would be using Jack and/or Javin for limited minutes with Javin at the 4 spot.

I am very intrigued by this revelation (thanks much Oly), and I look forward to the next two weeks to see exactly what K comes up with. It's going to be very interesting... A big part of me really wants to run the table from here on out so I hope whatever K comes up with ends up working really well!

Sorry, Newton, I'm going to call you out on this one. We layed down a run of 9-0 / 17-5 in the second half. We held them to 5/17 on 3 pt shots.

We would not have been able to do either of those things if we played no defense.


You characterization is an exaggeration and somewhat unfair.

[Kedsy]

Seeding is less important than health. If we're winning a title we have to beat great teams anyway, whether we do it in the elite 8 or the sweet 16 doesn't matter.

I don't quite understand this comment. Are you suggesting playing two "great" (i.e., top 10?) teams (in the Sweet 16 and Elite Eight) is no different from playing just one (in the Elite Eight)? If so, that makes no sense to me.

Put another way, a #4 seed potentially plays a #13, #5, #1, #2 to get to the Final Four. A #1 seed potentially plays a #16 (significantly easier than a #13), a #8 (significantly easier than a #5), a #4 (significantly easier than a #1), and a #2 (the same as the #4-seed's path). I can't imagine any reasonable argument that says those two paths are anywhere close to the same.

I'm not saying seeding is more important than health -- I think that's a complicated decision -- but the idea that seeding doesn't matter because "we have to beat great teams anyway" is baffling to me.

[subzero02]

Frank is to the point where he can spell Grayson for a couple of games.

I agree with this. If Frank is hitting his catch and shoot 3 pointers, he is avery effective as an Allen replacement.

[throatybeard]

Play Verga more. That guy can shoot.

[DameionNatale]

A VERY interesting sequence in today's postgame -- Krzyzewski carried on an internal debate about whether or not he should hold Amile and Grayson out of games down the stretch of the regular
season.

First, he confirmed that neither player has been able to practice because of foot/ankle injuries. He talked about how the injury is really impacting Grayson's level of play and he joked about Amile limping up and down the court. Then, on his own (not in response to as question), he said:

"I could do something a little bit different with my team, during the next week or so. I've got to get these guys healthy. We'll see -- a day and a half, two days -- what we can do. But we've put ourselves in the bigger picture here and I can't afford to lose any of these guys, now that we have them. I'm thinking out loud right now.

"I know if I was a pro coach I would not play them for a couple of weeks because we're in the playoffs. But I don't think I can do that. I've got to talk to these two guys and take a vote. I'll be like the vice president -- I can break the tie. But I'll only do it for the best interests of our country."

So what should he do -- hold Grayson and Amile out for the next two weeks and let them get healthy again -- at the almost certain cost of losing the ACC regular season title and a 1 or 2 seed in the NCAA Tournament? Or keep going like he has for the last weeks and risk their health for postseason for regular season goals?

If he can up the minutes of Frank, Giles and Marques enough to the end of the regular season to help with there recovery and then sit them out the ACC tourny to fully recover could be a possibility if it must happen to be healthy come ncaa tournament.

[ncexnyc]

Can someone example how cutting an injured players minutes from say 30-35 minutes a game to 20 minutes a game is helping the injured player heal?

I'm sorry, but that logic seems rather silly to me. Either you rest the injured players completely or you let them play.

If you want to discuss how long the injured players sit out, well that something worthy of discussion.

[Devilwin]

Again, at this point, if we sit them say two games, or ten days, whatever, how rusty will they be when they return? It's a double edged sword at this point.

[WVDUKEFAN]

Team chemistry is a factor as well.

[NSDukeFan]

I agree with this. If Frank is hitting his catch and shoot 3 pointers, he is avery effective as an Allen replacement.
I think he has a langdon way to go before he brings all that Allen does.

Play Verga more. That guy can shoot.

Shooting wasn't the problem yesterday and I don't know if a 70 year old would have the quickness to help defensively. I also don't think he has any eligibility left.

[60sDukie]

For purely personal reasons I want them to do enough to get first round in Greenville (we already have tickets). I think that means they need to be highest ranked team in the southeast, passing the tarheels.

[Troublemaker]

For purely personal reasons I want them to do enough to get first round in Greenville (we already have tickets). I think that means they need to be highest ranked team in the southeast, passing the tarheels.

We have to ranked (in terms of seeding) ahead of UVA and South Carolina. UNC can be ahead of us, and then we would both be in Greenville.

[Troublemaker]

As far as we know, Grayson just has that ankle that he rolled against Clemson, right? The fact that it's still bothering him is concerning.

I would rest him against Cuse to give him the full week of rest before going to Miami.

Against Miami, play Grayson and rest Amile to give Amile close to a full week before Senior Night against FSU.

So, don't rest them at the same time. Stagger them.

[kmspeaks]

We're talking about sitting for a game or two to get a week's worth of rest. Is that enough to make a difference? *I played softball my junior year with a bone bruise in my left (non-throwing) hand for most of the season. I carried around a bag of tennis balls and hit those instead of regular softballs to lessen the impact and didn't play catch as much, but on game day I was toughing it out just like Amile. I would have needed several weeks of rest for it to feel good again. Taking a week off would have been no different than a day off so there was really no point. Days off may be helpful to Grayson's bum ankle but would it really help Amile?


*standard caveat about every person/injury is different, I'm not a doctor, etc, etc

[gofurman]

As far as we know, Grayson just has that ankle that he rolled against Clemson, right? The fact that it's still bothering him is concerning.

I would rest him against Cuse to give him the full week of rest before going to Miami.

Against Miami, play Grayson and rest Amile to give Amile close to a full week before Senior Night against FSU.

So, don't rest them at the same time. Stagger them.

He rolled it twice. Clemson and at uva???

[CDu]

He rolled it twice. Clemson and at uva???

Yup. He hurt it in the first half of both of those games.

[gam7]

As far as we know, Grayson just has that ankle that he rolled against Clemson, right? The fact that it's still bothering him is concerning.

I would rest him against Cuse to give him the full week of rest before going to Miami.

Against Miami, play Grayson and rest Amile to give Amile close to a full week before Senior Night against FSU.

So, don't rest them at the same time. Stagger them.


Yup. He hurt it in the first half of both of those games.

And the Clemson game was only 8 days ago. I don't think it is surprising at all that it is still bothering him. In February 2015, Jah sprained his ankle and was never the same again that season. In February 2016, Matt Jones sprained his ankle and was never the same again that season. This is unlikely to go away without significant rest.

[throatybeard]

We have to ranked (in terms of seeding) ahead of UVA and South Carolina. UNC can be ahead of us, and then we would both be in Greenville.

I'd rather Duke play jet-lagged in Tasmania than have to occupy the same pod/arena as UNC's aggressive and cruel fans. Unfortunately there are only eight sites.

[Troublemaker]

And the Clemson game was only 8 days ago. I don't think it is surprising at all that it is still bothering him. In February 2015, Jah sprained his ankle and was never the same again that season. In February 2016, Matt Jones sprained his ankle and was never the same again that season. This is unlikely to go away without significant rest.

I didn't say surprising but rather "concerning." In that I am concerned that against UVA the ankle was weak enough to roll again and that against Wake the ankle was still weak apparently. Seems like he could use some rest. If it takes more than just resting one game, that is fine, too.


I'd rather Duke play jet-lagged in Tasmania than have to occupy the same pod/arena as UNC's aggressive and cruel fans. Unfortunately there are only eight sites.

Well, UNC's going to be there. The question is whether Duke will. I think that makes you a fan of giving Amile and Grayson some rest.

[arnie]

I'd rather Duke play jet-lagged in Tasmania than have to occupy the same pod/arena as UNC's aggressive and cruel fans. Unfortunately there are only eight sites.

We're ok at the Greenville SC pod with the Heels. Their fans will show up at the wrong Greenville.

[Indoor66]

We're ok at the Greenville SC pod with the Heels. Their fans will show up at the wrong Greenville.

Just make them have to read the road signs.

[Olympic Fan]

I keep refuting this, but the myth continues.

I've been to every Duke NCAA opening round(s) game in the Coach K era.

We had a problem sharing a pod with UNC one -- just one! -- time. That was in Charlotte in 2005 and Duke won both games despite the UNC fans.

Since then, Duke and UNC have shared a pod in 2009 (Greensboro), 2011 (Charlotte) and 2012 (Greensboro) and there hasn't been the slightest issue.

Yeah, Duke did lose in the 2012 first round, but it had nothing to do with UNC fans in the arena -- there was no ugliest, no anti-Duke rhetoric. Late in the game, the non-Duke fans started cheering for Lehigh, but that happens any time and any where when a top seed is in danger. The same thing happened in Raleigh in 2014 when we shared a pod with Virginia ...

The situation in 2005 was very complex and involved a unique set of circumstances. On the whole, Duke has NOT has a problem sharing a pod with UNC.

If both schools are in Greenville, that will be fine. In fact, since Greenville is one of the four Friday-Sunday sites, which K prefers to Thursday-Saturday, it ill be better than fine.

That's where I want to go and I'll bet that's where K wants to go -- Heels or no Heels.

[gofurman]

I'd rather Duke play jet-lagged in Tasmania than have to occupy the same pod/arena as UNC's aggressive and cruel fans. Unfortunately there are only eight sites.

I wouldn't worry as much as if it were Charlotte or greensboro. I am in Greenville SC and the anti Duke sentiment isn't the same. I go to Clemson Duke games etc. It's not as bad here Greenville SC would - in some ways - be better for Duke than NC. I think the lean wouldn't be as bad. I watched here in 2001. A good year I do believe. People here grow up pro Clemson which means more of a football lean. And, others noted, LittleJohn isn't real mean to Duke. They want to win but they don't yell or have signs like at UNC

[BandAlum83]

I keep refuting this, but the myth continues.

I've been to every Duke NCAA opening round(s) game in the Coach K era.

We had a problem sharing a pod with UNC one -- just one! -- time. That was in Charlotte in 2005 and Duke won both games despite the UNC fans.

Since then, Duke and UNC have shared a pod in 2009 (Greensboro), 2011 (Charlotte) and 2012 (Greensboro) and there hasn't been the slightest issue.

Yeah, Duke did lose in the 2012 first round, but it had nothing to do with UNC fans in the arena -- there was no ugliest, no anti-Duke rhetoric. Late in the game, the non-Duke fans started cheering for Lehigh, but that happens any time and any where when a top seed is in danger. The same thing happened in Raleigh in 2014 when we shared a pod with Virginia ...

The situation in 2005 was very complex and involved a unique set of circumstances. On the whole, Duke has NOT has a problem sharing a pod with UNC.

If both schools are in Greenville, that will be fine. In fact, since Greenville is one of the four Friday-Sunday sites, which K prefers to Thursday-Saturday, it ill be better than fine.

That's where I want to go and I'll bet that's where K wants to go -- Heels or no Heels.

It's an easy trip from Atlanta. How easy is it to get tickets and how much do they run?

I know, I know, I could just check stub hub, but I bet some people out here have better suggestions on the best way to get tickets.

[FadedTackyShirt]

Based on the quality of opponent and being at home, today would have been the day to rest them. Trying to beat Syracuse or Miami on the road without them will be tough. Losing one of those games means we likely have no shot at catching UNC in the regular season race, though the biggest concern would be falling out of the top 4 and having to play an extra round in the ACCT.

I don't think it's in K's nature to sit players, and I'm actually really shocked that he said as much as he did in the press conference. Maybe he'll try to limit their minutes in the next two games but when it comes to winning time he's going to ride his best players.

Seems like the sweet spot would be maintaining both an ACC bye and first weekend in Greenville. Not terribly worried about Frank, but would be an added bonus if Harry or Bolden could decisively lock down the last spot in the rotation.

K's mentality is to win every game, but this has been a rough season and would rather have as healthy a rotation as possible for the Dance. Sadly K's not going to coach forever, so he needs to optimize his last few chances to hang (additional) banners.

[gofurman]

I wouldn't worry as much as if it were Charlotte or greensboro. I am in Greenville SC and the anti Duke sentiment isn't the same. I go to Clemson Duke games etc. It's not as bad here Greenville SC would - in some ways - be better for Duke than NC. I think the lean wouldn't be as bad. I watched here in 2001. A good year I do believe. People here grow up pro Clemson which means more of a football lean. And, others noted, LittleJohn isn't real mean to Duke. They want to win but they don't yell or have signs like at UNC

Good thing is the end of year w ACCT and NCAA offers full weeks off. I don't think we will do it but to play them next two weeks to get a 2 seed maybe then don't play them in acc giving two weeks until first NCAA?

[Troublemaker]

Good thing is the end of year w ACCT and NCAA offers full weeks off. I don't think we will do it but to play them next two weeks to get a 2 seed maybe then don't play them in acc giving two weeks until first NCAA?

What if Duke doesn't play well enough to get a 2 seed with two of their important players hampered? Especially in the case of Grayson. With Amile, I'm with others in wondering if a bone bruise can really heal with a game or two off. But maybe it gets a little bit better somehow. I'm sure the medical personnel will have their input.

[gofurman]

It's an easy trip from Atlanta. How easy is it to get tickets and how much do they run?

I know, I know, I could just check stub hub, but I bet some people out here have better suggestions on the best way to get tickets.

Originally they were around 500 for all 6 games. I assume that's Not the mid-court but ok tickets. Would be fun to pull for Duke and against UNC !!! ESP in second games assuming both make it past first games

[FadedTackyShirt]

Originally they were around 500 for all 6 games. I assume that's Not the mid-court but ok tickets. Would be fun to pull for Duke and against UNC !!! ESP in second games assuming both make it past first games

There will be three seperate session tickets. Use the same strategy as the ACCT: pay whatever you have to for the first session and go to the losing team's section after each game. Donor seats are always better seats than what's available to the general public. Pick up the last two sessions for face or below. Complete buyer's market for the final session if you can't find/don't want to buy an unused session booklet. First session ticket is the only (semi) expensive ticket.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Originally they were around 500 for all 6 games. I assume that's Not the mid-court but ok tickets. Would be fun to pull for Duke and against UNC !!! ESP in second games assuming both make it past first games

Stub Hub has all sessions for about $230.

[DU82]

There will be three seperate session tickets. Use the same strategy as the ACCT: pay whatever you have to for the first session and go to the losing team's section after each game. Donor seats are always better seats than what's available to the general public. Pick up the last two sessions for face or below. Complete buyer's market for the final session if you can't find/don't want to buy an unused session booklet. First session ticket is the only (semi) expensive ticket.

Fans getting tickets from schools don't typically get them for all sessions, only for the one(s) their team plays in. And don't get the second round until after the first round is over. And the second round is usually tougher, as you'll have both high seeds looking, rather than just one. It's not the same as the ACC tournament.

[dukebballcamper90-91]

For a deep run in March I think we need Frank running the point. So now is the time to start getting Frank more minutes at the point. Sit Grayson more and let him come in as the energy guy and bring him back out. I think we played well Saturday subbing Grayson and Luke for reach other

[Edouble]

For a deep run in March I think we need Frank running the point. So now is the time to start getting Frank more minutes at the point. Sit Grayson more and let him come in as the energy guy and bring him back out. I think we played well Saturday subbing Grayson and Luke for reach other

Not sure what you are talking about. Luke played pretty much the entire game... 37 minutes.

FWIW, Grayson played 28 minutes.

[freshmanjs]

I keep refuting this, but the myth continues.

I've been to every Duke NCAA opening round(s) game in the Coach K era.

We had a problem sharing a pod with UNC one -- just one! -- time. That was in Charlotte in 2005 and Duke won both games despite the UNC fans.

Since then, Duke and UNC have shared a pod in 2009 (Greensboro), 2011 (Charlotte) and 2012 (Greensboro) and there hasn't been the slightest issue.

Yeah, Duke did lose in the 2012 first round, but it had nothing to do with UNC fans in the arena -- there was no ugliest, no anti-Duke rhetoric. Late in the game, the non-Duke fans started cheering for Lehigh, but that happens any time and any where when a top seed is in danger. The same thing happened in Raleigh in 2014 when we shared a pod with Virginia ...

The situation in 2005 was very complex and involved a unique set of circumstances. On the whole, Duke has NOT has a problem sharing a pod with UNC.

If both schools are in Greenville, that will be fine. In fact, since Greenville is one of the four Friday-Sunday sites, which K prefers to Thursday-Saturday, it ill be better than fine.

That's where I want to go and I'll bet that's where K wants to go -- Heels or no Heels.

What were the complex and unique circumstances in 2005? thanks!

[DU82]

What were the complex and unique circumstances in 2005? thanks!

One, it was in Charlotte. Two, the cheaters' fans bought up all the tickets assuming that they were going to be there. Duke surprisingly (to some) won the ACC tournament and was assigned to Charlotte. The cheating smurfs booed everything Duke related, including the band walking to their seats before the Duke game. Three, it was their fans' usual class (actually, should be reason 1-100.)

Newton14 would differ on OF's comment that 2012 wasn't a problem with the cheater fans.

[OldPhiKap]

Being in the same regional with Carolina absolutely sucks. Been there twice, hated it both times, thought it made for a very hostile road atmosphere.

[duketaylor]

I recommend, as opposed to StubHub, the NCAA site. They send me e-mails regularly with options to purchase tickets. Couple years ago I bought a ticket for Duke/Mercer session at RBC, one ticket, on the floor, I was behind press row in front of the Mercer fans. Awesome seat, had fun with the Mercer fans despite our loss. Talked with Feinstein and John Thompson. I paid $167 for one ticket, but it was a great seat and good for the two games. Just check it out before going to the ticket scalpers. Here's the e-mail I received:

https://connect.xfinity.com/appsuite/#!!&app=io.ox/mail/detail&folder=default0//IVGRZ&id=411780

Good luck!

[-jk]

Being in the same regional with Carolina absolutely sucks. Been there twice, hated it both times, thought it made for a very hostile road atmosphere.

Same venue/pod or same regional? I'd much rather be in the same pod...

Being in the same Final Four was the worst (but worked out OK). Wouldn't want to see it in the other direction...

-jk

[OldPhiKap]

Same venue/pod or same regional? I'd much rather be in the same pod...

Being in the same Final Four was the worst (but worked out OK). Wouldn't want to see it in the other direction...

-jk

Pod. It really stinks.

Have we ever been in the same regional?

[Olympic Fan]

One, it was in Charlotte. Two, the cheaters' fans bought up all the tickets assuming that they were going to be there. Duke surprisingly (to some) won the ACC tournament and was assigned to Charlotte. The cheating smurfs booed everything Duke related, including the band walking to their seats before the Duke game. Three, it was their fans' usual class (actually, should be reason 1-100.)

Newton14 would differ on OF's comment that 2012 wasn't a problem with the cheater fans.

Yeah, the problem stemmed from the fact that UNC was No. 1 or No. 2 nationally almost the entire season and expected to go to Charlotte. Wake Forest was top five all season and also expected to go to Charlotte. Their fans bought up all the tickets.

Duke was the third best ACC team most of the season and expected to go somewhere else. Very few Duke fans bought tickets for Charlotte. And NCAA allotments are small -- pretty sure Duke got just 250 tickets for the first round (up to 500 for the second).

Then came the Chris Paul nut-punch game and with him suspended, the Deacs were knocked out in the first round of the ACC Tournament. Duke went on to win the title and earn a very unexpected No. 1 seed -- and a placement in Charlotte. It was too late to get any public tickets -- they were all sold out. Not sure why Duke fans had such trouble buying up the Wake tickets, but they all seemed to go to UNC fans.

The UNC people were pretty full of themselves -- remember, they had been downtrodden most of the previous four years (including 8-22 in 2002). A large group showed up on practice day and stayed to harass Duke as it went through its walk-though. A UNC fan waitress gave the team hell during their pregame meal. The UNC fans stayed for the second session of the first round just to cheer against Duke. And they stayed for the second game of the Sunday second round session, again to cheer Duke.

I'm sure they were obnoxious fans in 2009, 2011 and 2012, but it was nothing like the ugly atmosphere in Charlotte in 2005. Very few Carolina fans stayed for the Duke games in those years ... and Duke had enough fans to drown them out.

The only other time Duke had a problem with the crowd was 1998, when Kentucky fans showed up on practice day in Lexington to abuse the Devils. But they weren't on hand in force for the two games (Kentucky was in the same regional, but a different subregional).

And Duke and UNC HAVE been in the same regional -- in 1979, UNC was No. 1 and Duke No. 2 in the East (that was Black Sunday in Raleigh when they both lost) and in 2004, when Duke was No. 1 and UNC No. 6 in the Atlanta Regional ... but UNC lost in the second round, so the two teams never got to the same site.

[wsb3]

One, it was in Charlotte. Two, the cheaters' fans bought up all the tickets assuming that they were going to be there. Duke surprisingly (to some) won the ACC tournament and was assigned to Charlotte. The cheating smurfs booed everything Duke related, including the band walking to their seats before the Duke game. Three, it was their fans' usual class (actually, should be reason 1-100.)

Newton14 would differ on OF's comment that 2012 wasn't a problem with the cheater fans.

I was there & it was pretty brutal. It seemed about 3/4 of the crowd was anti Duke but maybe it was not that bad & it was just the section I was in which was loaded with some young obnoxious UNC fans..That was also the year JJ said they got booed walking into a restaurant.

[Newton_14]

One, it was in Charlotte. Two, the cheaters' fans bought up all the tickets assuming that they were going to be there. Duke surprisingly (to some) won the ACC tournament and was assigned to Charlotte. The cheating smurfs booed everything Duke related, including the band walking to their seats before the Duke game. Three, it was their fans' usual class (actually, should be reason 1-100.)

Newton14 would differ on OF's comment that 2012 wasn't a problem with the cheater fans.

Dang straight. I almost got in a fight with two of their 20,000 obnoxious loud mouths. First, the people in session 1 had to exit the building before they would let anyone in for Session 2. So as we waited in line and waited and waited and waited, we had the good pleasure of passing all the loud obnoxious foul mouthed drunk cheat fans leaving. We barely got to our seats in time for the opening tip despite getting there an hour before tip. Then a good number of that 20K came right back in. We were something like 3 rows from the court across from the Duke bench and we were absolutely surrounded by cheat fans. Once their dumbarses figured out Duke was actually in trouble they came to life. Taunted and mocked our players and us. When we exited at the final buzzer it was not a very pleasant walk up the steps to get to the hallway. I was convinced DU82 would never take me to another game...

Lehigh brought a small but very loud contingent, and once the cheat fans joined them down the stretch it turned into a true road game for our guys. Maybe it didn't affect our guys on the floor, but it certainly didn't help them. I know this, I will never ever go to another NCAA tournament game where carolina cheated for 25 years TarCheats is at the same location as us. Not gonna happen. I love being there in the building but it aint worth it.

[Tripping William]

I was there & it was pretty brutal. It seemed about 3/4 of the crowd was anti Duke but maybe it was not that bad & it was just the section I was in which was loaded with some young obnoxious UNC fans..That was also the year JJ said they got booed walking into a restaurant.

I was ther, too, and yet Duke won both games and advanced to the Sweet 16 (where they lost to Sparty in a game that can't be blamed on Carolina having a homecourt advantage).

[WWBD]

You sit them. Bring them back for UNC. The team has enough to get by without them, and the silver lining is Ques, Giles, and Jackson will get some extra much needed burn.

[Dukelogger]

I was ther, too, and yet Duke won both games and advanced to the Sweet 16 (where they lost to Sparty in a game that can't be blamed on Carolina having a homecourt advantage).

Seems like I recall K passing Dean Smith in all time NCAA tourney wins during the 2005 tourney, which may have added to all other factors involved that year.

I was there 1) at the restaurant near the coliseum when the team got booed 2) at both games when the tarcheats fans cheered the whole game passionately from the tip against Duke, which is odd because they dont even pull that hard for their own team, and 3) at a shootaround when their fans were harassing our players, with my Heel BIL, who basically apologized for the incident. Of the three, the shootaround incident IMO was the ugliest of the three. Apology withstanding, its the moment I really started to passionately pull against them.

[OldPhiKap]

I was there, too, and yet Duke won both games and advanced to the Sweet 16 (where they lost to Sparty in a game that can't be blamed on Carolina having a homecourt advantage).

The fact that we overcame the adverse conditions does not mean that it was fair to put us in that position. Just my two cents.

I was there as well. It was awful. I do not wish that on our team again, ever.

[budwom]

Fans getting tickets from schools don't typically get them for all sessions, only for the one(s) their team plays in. And don't get the second round until after the first round is over. And the second round is usually tougher, as you'll have both high seeds looking, rather than just one. It's not the same as the ACC tournament.

Is that true now? In the not too distant past when I attended the tournament on a fairly regular basis, most fans of all schools got ticket books good for every session.
I know we did...

[Kedsy]

Is that true now? In the not too distant past when I attended the tournament on a fairly regular basis, most fans of all schools got ticket books good for every session.
I know we did...

Yeah, they changed it a few years ago. At least as of 2013 (the last time I attended the first/second round of the NCAAT), they did it the way DU82 described. It allows the NCAA to "double up" on the school-allotted seats and sell more tickets generally.

[Duke79UNLV77]

Any possibility of moving the string of off topic posts to their own separate thread?

[gam7]

From Stephen Wiseman (twitter) - "Coach K said he plans to play Amile Jefferson and Grayson Allen at Syracuse. He mentioned Saturday possibly sitting them to rest injuries"

[sagegrouse]

From Stephen Wiseman (twitter) - "Coach K said he plans to play Amile Jefferson and Grayson Allen at Syracuse. He mentioned Saturday possibly sitting them to rest injuries"

Not in the least surprised. Coach K, after 40 years in front of the mike, has a PhD in "coach speak." He would never have raised that possibility unless he was having fun with it and had already made up his mind to play Amile and Grayson.

[UrinalCake]

I honestly think he just brought it up to put a bug in the ear of the Selection Committee, so that if/when we lose any of our remaining games then maybe they will take these injuries into account. I mean seriously, when has K ever volunteered information about an injury, much less unprompted in a post-game press conference? He is not above playing the game of sending subtle messages to the Selection Committee like he did in 2011 when he had Kyrie pace the sidelines of the ACC Tournament.

[Olympic Fan]

Major news today ...

On the ACC teleconference today, K was asked if he had clarified his thinking about holding Amile and/or Grayson out.

K said that both would definitely play going forward.

He did say that both were much better this morning, but he would limit them to walk-through stuff in practice -- "I don't know how much they have, but what they do have, I want them to expend in games, not practice."

[kAzE]

I was in favor of resting them 1 game each, but looking at our final 4 regular season games, there just isn't a game on the schedule that we can afford to pull punches. Three road games against top 50 KenPom teams (Syracuse #48, Miami #34, and UNC #6) and a home game against KenPom's #19, Florida St.

We probably have to win all 4 games to win the ACC, and that's gotta be a goal that the team is trying to reach. The regular season championship has eluded us for far too long. The last time we won the regular season outright was 2006, 11 seasons ago!! (We shared the title with UMd in 2010) But prior to that, we had won or shared the regular season title in 10 out of 16 years, dating back to 1991.

[Edouble]

I was in favor of resting them 1 game each, but looking at our final 4 regular season games, there just isn't a game on the schedule that we can afford to pull punches. Three road games against top 50 KenPom teams (Syracuse #48, Miami #34, and UNC #6) and a home game against KenPom's #19, Florida St.

We probably have to win all 4 games to win the ACC, and that's gotta be a goal that the team is trying to reach. The regular season championship has eluded us for far too long. The last time we won the regular season outright was 2006, 11 seasons ago!! (We shared the title with UMd in 2010) But prior to that, we had won or shared the regular season title in 10 out of 16 years, dating back to 1991.

At the beginning of the season, Coach K said the goal of this team is to win a National Championship. I believe all other incremental goals fall by the wayside when winning on Monday night is the team's goal.

I think it's fair to rest Amile and Grayson for the greater good/natty, although this discussion may be moot as it looks like everyone will suit up.

[kAzE]

At the beginning of the season, Coach K said the goal of this team is to win a National Championship. I believe all other incremental goals fall by the wayside when winning on Monday night is the team's goal.

I think it's fair to rest Amile and Grayson for the greater good/natty, although this discussion may be moot as it looks like everyone will suit up.

No disagreement here. I just wanted to point out that the regular season championship does still matter, and that it's been more than a decade since we've captured it outright. But aside from that, we really could conceivably go 2-2 or 1-3 in the next 4 games, and that would hurt our NCAA tournament seeding a lot. But if Coach K thinks holding them out of practice and playing them in the games is enough to get them healthy, all we can do is trust him.

[-jk]

At the beginning of the season, Coach K said the goal of this team is to win a National Championship. I believe all other incremental goals fall by the wayside when winning on Monday night is the team's goal.

I think it's fair to rest Amile and Grayson for the greater good/natty, although this discussion may be moot as it looks like everyone will suit up.

K likes to win championships. (C'mon - K likes to win.) I'm sure he's talking to the team about the acc regular season now. In a couple weeks, he'll talk the real one. After that, it's a four team tourney. Then a regional. Then the big one.

Hope we get 'em all!

-jk

[throatybeard]

I was in favor of resting them 1 game each, but looking at our final 4 regular season games, there just isn't a game on the schedule that we can afford to pull punches. Three road games against top 50 KenPom teams (Syracuse #48, Miami #34, and UNC #6) and a home game against KenPom's #19, Florida St.

We probably have to win all 4 games to win the ACC, and that's gotta be a goal that the team is trying to reach. The regular season championship has eluded us for far too long. The last time we won the regular season outright was 2006, 11 seasons ago!! (We shared the title with UMd in 2010) But prior to that, we had won or shared the regular season title in 10 out of 16 years, dating back to 1991.

It got harder. Now you have to win the ACC and half of the Big East at the same time.

[weezie]

K likes to win championships. (C'mon - K likes to win.)
-jk

Well, yeah, "cuz every time [he] step up in the building everybody's hands go UP!"

[BlueDevilWildcat]

I think we need both guys to be as healthy as possible if we want to make a run in the NCAA tourney. And regardless I really, really, really want to beat UNC a 2nd time and knock them from the 1 line. Whatever K thinks makes those two goals most likely, I'm all for it.

I know Amile is pretty indispensable, but does FJ bring enough that we could sit Grayson a game or two w/o a huge impact on the court?

[Steven43]

We probably have to win all 4 games to win the ACC, and that's gotta be a goal that the team is trying to reach. The regular season championship has eluded us for far too long. The last time we won the regular season outright was 2006, 11 seasons ago!! (We shared the title with UMd in 2010) But prior to that, we had won or shared the regular season title in 10 out of 16 years, dating back to 1991.
Ever since the ACC went to an unbalanced schedule the regular season title has meant nothing to me, not one thing. If each school is not playing every other school home and away there is simply no way to determine a legitimate champion. So what's the point?

As a Duke fan, as far as the ACC goes, I care first and foremost about beating UNC. Second, winning all home games. Third, winning all games home and away. I don't care much about the ACC tournament, preferring instead to go out before the finals to rest up for the NCAAs. 2014-2015 was basically the perfect season for me. Wouldn't care to change a thing about it if I could.