WRAL: Gott fired, will complete season

[OldPhiKap]

Per interwebs.

See "Breaking News" at top (I assume that is only there for a short time, but it's all I've seen besides a tweet stating same): http://www.wral.com/?cpt=express

[94duke]

Per interwebs.

See "Breaking News" at top (I assume that is only there for a short time, but it's all I've seen besides a tweet stating same): http://www.wral.com/?cpt=express

direct link to article:
http://www.wralsportsfan.com/nc-state-s-gottfried-will-not-return-next-season/16533628/

[moonpie23]

i like the guy......there are so many elements of success for a team, but who knows where the blame should go..

[JasonEvans]

Their recruiting for next season was already extremely poor, so this won't really impact that, I suspect.

Shocking though, to do this with a month left in the season. You generally only see a rash firing like this when there is a major scandal.

[weezie]

If Archie Miller is taking the job, he's a good coach...

[uh_no]

i like the guy...there are so many elements of success for a team, but who knows where the blame should go..

usually defense is considered one of them....

he could recruit pretty well, but man, the defense was just awful. even at bama, that's what he was known for.

[kAzE]

usually defense is considered one of them...

he could recruit pretty well, but man, the defense was just awful. even at bama, that's what he was known for.

Well, it was good enough to get him to the NCAA tournament in each of his first four years, and to the sweet 16 twice. He's not a total bum.

[devildeac]

hiresendek.com?

hirelowe.com?

:rolleyes:

[Olympic Fan]

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/18699074/mark-gottfried-fired-nc-state-wolfpack-coach

I can think of just one justification for firing Gott now -- with a month to go in the season.

That's to make a quick run at Archie Miller, who has done a great job at Dayton. Miller, a Wolfpack grad, would be a great hire ... if they can get him.

The problem is that Miller is widely mentioned as a successor to Tom Crean at Indiana, whose team is also in collapse (although unlike State, they haven't quit yet).

Given the choice between NC State and Indiana, which would you choose (even if you were a State grad)?

Firing Gott now makes it easier to get the jump on Indiana in the pursuit of Miller.

[RamblinRed]

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/18699074/mark-gottfried-fired-nc-state-wolfpack-coach

I can think of just one justification for firing Gott now -- with a month to go in the season.

That's to make a quick run at Archie Miller, who has done a great job at Dayton. Miller, a Wolfpack grad, would be a great hire ... if they can get him.

The problem is that Miller is widely mentioned as a successor to Tom Crean at Indiana, whose team is also in collapse (although unlike State, they haven't quit yet).

Given the choice between NC State and Indiana, which would you choose (even if you were a State grad)?

Firing Gott now makes it easier to get the jump on Indiana in the pursuit of Miller.

There are also rumors that tOSU may open at the end of the season and they would be interested in Miller as well.

I'm not sure this helps if they want to get Miller. All the focus will be on Miller given his tied - he has a team headed to the NCAA, he may not want this headache hanging over the team.

[hallcity]

The Duke curse strikes! Gott's win over Duke was his last before getting fired. It may be his last -- ever -- as a head coach.

[uh_no]

Well, it was good enough to get him to the NCAA tournament in each of his first four years, and to the sweet 16 twice. He's not a total bum.

no, but his defenses usually are. his best defense was ranked 76 in the country, and are consistently in the 100s. if his defenses played anywhere near as good as the offenses, they'd be a perennial top 25 team.

[English]

Not that he has any more inside information into the inner workings of NCSU's athletic department or Dayton's, or to Archie Miller's brain, than any other person who makes his living in college basketball, but it's been slightly comical how adamant Jeff Goodman has been about Miller NOT taking the State job. Like, bet the house, name a kid something crazy if it happens, tattoo on the throat, levels of adamant.

Goodman pretty much lives on Twitter and he's posted dozens of times about this not happening...and about how badly State has handled this garbage fire. To my eye, he's not wrong on either count. Seriously, if you were a prospective State coach and you were on the rise or had other offers, would you take a job at NCSU in the current climate?! The school is absolutely throwing Gott to the wolves, publicly, mid-season, without any backfill. That should be a, you know, red flag, for a self-respecting coach who's looking for a place to lay roots and build a program.

[weezie]

Paging PackMan...

[PSurprise]

Not that he has any more inside information into the inner workings of NCSU's athletic department or Dayton's, or to Archie Miller's brain, than any other person who makes his living in college basketball, but it's been slightly comical how adamant Jeff Goodman has been about Miller NOT taking the State job. Like, bet the house, name a kid something crazy if it happens, tattoo on the throat, levels of adamant.

Goodman pretty much lives on Twitter and he's posted dozens of times about this not happening...and about how badly State has handled this garbage fire. To my eye, he's not wrong on either count. Seriously, if you were a prospective State coach and you were on the rise or had other offers, would you take a job at NCSU in the current climate?! The school is absolutely throwing Gott to the wolves, publicly, mid-season, without any backfill. That should be a, you know, red flag, for a self-respecting coach who's looking for a place to lay roots and build a program.

I see what you did there. And I appreciate it.

[dukelifer]

The Duke curse strikes! Gott's win over Duke was his last before getting fired. It may be his last -- ever -- as a head coach.

Perhaps in a big conference for now but I suspect he will coach again at a smaller place if he is willing to go.

[53n206]

Not that he has any more inside information into the inner workings of NCSU's athletic department or Dayton's, or to Archie Miller's brain, than any other person who makes his living in college basketball, but it's been slightly comical how adamant Jeff Goodman has been about Miller NOT taking the State job. Like, bet the house, name a kid something crazy if it happens, tattoo on the throat, levels of adamant.

Goodman pretty much lives on Twitter and he's posted dozens of times about this not happening...and about how badly State has handled this garbage fire. To my eye, he's not wrong on either count. Seriously, if you were a prospective State coach and you were on the rise or had other offers, would you take a job at NCSU in the current climate?! The school is absolutely throwing Gott to the wolves, publicly, mid-season, without any backfill. That should be a, you know, red flag, for a self-respecting coach who's looking for a place to lay roots and build a program.

Absolutely agree. Do not know the rational for this action by State (Yow). Should turn off any coach. State is not in a position to act this way. They are years from the old State dominance. I believe that any good coach looking at this situation would think that this could happen to me, there is no guarantee that I can turn the program around and please the powers that be.

[OldPhiKap]

Absolutely agree. Do not know the rational for this action by State (Yow). Should turn off any coach. State is not in a position to act this way. They are years from the old State dominance. I believe that any good coach looking at this situation would think that this could happen to me, there is no guarantee that I can turn the program around and please the powers that be.

Since Valvano left in 1990, State has had:

Les Robinson (ACC record: 28-66)
Herb Sendek (ACC record: 72-88)
Sidney Lowe (ACC record: 25-55)
Mark Gottfried (ACC record: 44-44 through end of last season, 47-55 through today as best I can tell)

Seems like a tough gig. Meanwhile, the other triangle teams have done pretty well since 1990 -- even though UNC will hopefully forfeit a large number of those ill-gotten wins. Still, a tough sell for a top coach I think, even before considering the Yow factor.

[CDu]

It's Miller (as in Archie) time!!! ;)

[Olympic Fan]

Not that he has any more inside information into the inner workings of NCSU's athletic department or Dayton's, or to Archie Miller's brain, than any other person who makes his living in college basketball, but it's been slightly comical how adamant Jeff Goodman has been about Miller NOT taking the State job. Like, bet the house, name a kid something crazy if it happens, tattoo on the throat, levels of adamant.


Does anybody remember Goodman's insistence last spring that Abu would not be returning to Raleigh, even if he did pull out of the draft.

Goodman is always adamant about his "scoops" ... he's only sometimes right.

[FadedTackyShirt]

Always creeped out by the weird NC State finger wolves, but why fire Gott and still let him finish out the season? He's clearly lost the team and Anya might eat him.

[JetpackJesus]

Someone definitely called this firing in the game chat yesterday as the NCSU/UNC game went final. I'd give more specific credit to that person if I could remember who said it.

[Atlanta Duke]

Their recruiting for next season was already extremely poor, so this won't really impact that, I suspect.

Shocking though, to do this with a month left in the season. You generally only see a rash firing like this when there is a major scandal.

Part of the change in college sports. This article ran last fall on college football coaches getting terminated before the season ends and I suppose the same justifications apply to the other big revenue sport.

So what changed? Money and pressure, like most pressure points in the commercialized world of college sports....

[T]he trend of firing coaches early in the season simply speaks to the transactional relationships that occur in the college football industry. When a program goes south, there are recruits to pursue, new coaches to woo, press conferences to be won, and booster money to retain.

http://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/why-big-programs-like-lsu-are-firing-coaches-earlier-in-the-season-than-ever-before/

[Troublemaker]

Someone definitely called this firing in the game chat yesterday as the NCSU/UNC game went final. I'd give more specific credit to that person if I could remember who said it.

That was FerryFor50, I believe.

I remember disagreeing and writing they would let him finish the season. Didn't think of the option where they would do both, haha.

Great call, Ferry.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

If they don't get Archie Miller with his natural loyalty to the program, they will be lucky to get Barney Miller. Or Barney Fife. This job has become toxic and firing Gottfried before the end of the season doesn't help improve that impression. I hope they have a lot of money available to give someone a Paul Hewitt contract because they are going to have to really overpay.

[OldPhiKap]

If they don't get Archie Miller with his natural loyalty to the program, they will be lucky to get Barney Miller. Or Barney Fife. This job has become toxic and firing Gottfried before the end of the season doesn't help improve that impression. I hope they have a lot of money available to give someone a Paul Hewitt contract because they are going to have to really overpay.

Didn't this happen when they fires Sendek? I seem to remember a long line of embarrassing rejections before settling on Lowe.

Was Yow the AD at that time?

[Tripping William]

Didn't this happen when they fires Sendek? I seem to remember a long line of embarrassing rejections before settling on Lowe.

Was Yow the AD at that time?

No, it was Lee Fowler who hired El Sid, after a bunch of folks (Rick Barnes, Steve Lavin, others) turned it down. Yow hired Gott to replace Lowe (presumably after she couldn't land John Calipari, who, IIRC, State fans were convinced would come).

[sagegrouse]

Part of the change in college sports. This article ran last fall on college football coaches getting terminated before the season ends and I suppose the same justifications apply to the other big revenue sport.

So what changed? Money and pressure, like most pressure points in the commercialized world of college sports...

[T]he trend of firing coaches early in the season simply speaks to the transactional relationships that occur in the college football industry. When a program goes south, there are recruits to pursue, new coaches to woo, press conferences to be won, and booster money to retain.

http://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/why-big-programs-like-lsu-are-firing-coaches-earlier-in-the-season-than-ever-before/

(a) It changes the subject to the next coach -- which is good overall for State (and the leadership).

(b) It's a rule of defense in bridge -- if the opponent knows you have a card, you might as well play it. There's no secrecy about this -- Gottfried had to go. It's fine for him to finish the season (which is a lost cause).

[rsvman]

Such a waste of talent......and I'm talking about Dennis Smith, Jr.

What could have been!


Gottfried hasn't really been a worse (or really a better) coach than any of the others they've hired along the way, except that he's probably been better than Lowe was. As others have said, it's a tough gig! They get to the dance pretty frequently and win a fair number of games, but they're always third fiddle in the Triangle and they play in a tough, tough league.

[Owen Meany]

This seems like very poor timing to me. I would think this would look very bad to perspective coaches considering NCSU. I would also think it will force Miller to answer unwanted questions about NCSU while his team is still competing, which in turn might require him to issue a strong statement that he unequivocally will not take the NCSU job. If I were Miller, I would much prefer the stability he has in Dayton over the turmoil at NCSU. But I would think NCSU would get stronger consideration from Miller if he were able to think about an offer after the season is over when he did not have to worry about distractions to his team. This would have been better to be handled discretely, IMHO.

[devildeac]

Archie Miller: "I don't give a s#^t about NCSU. Heck, for that matter, I don't give a s#^t about c*rolina either."


(not an actual quote:o)

[OldPhiKap]

Is Archie Miller's record at Dayton significantly different than the two predecessors there -- Brian Gregory or Oliver Purnell (discounting Purnell's first few years, when he did the rebuilding job from the Jim O'Brien debacle)? Both used Dayton to springboard into the ACC; neither one did particularly well.

[Olympic Fan]

Didn't this happen when they fires Sendek? I seem to remember a long line of embarrassing rejections before settling on Lowe.

Was Yow the AD at that time?

State never fired Sendek ... although he was wildly unpopular with the fan base, he had the strong backing of the administration. True, he was in a position where one bad (non-NCAA) season may have killed him, but he left ahead of the posse.

But you are right that Sendek's departure led to a long and painful coaching search, headed by AD Lee Fowler.

His first target was John Calipari, then at Memphis, who played Fowler like a drum before getting a contract extension and a raise. Fowler looked at some other candidates (including Rick Barnes), but then targeted West Virginia coach John Beilein, who actually accepted the deal. The trouble was that he had a huge buyout at West Virginia and when State wouldn't pay it, he pulled out of the deal. Fowler ended up flirting with almost everybody possible -- Steve Lavin wanted it -- before finally being forced to settle for Lowe, who had never coached college basketball (even as an assistant).

Lowe provided a disaster and new AD Debbie Yow had to fire him.

The problem was that Maryland's Gary Williams hated Yow with a passion and did his best to sabotage her coaching search. I think the person she wanted to hire was Shaka Smart at VCU, but Williams got in Smart's ear and killed that hope. Her search didn't really last that long before she settled on Gottfried, who was an ESPN commentator.

If she ends up with Miller or someone like Mick Cronin or Chris Mack, I'll give her props ... but if she has to turn to ESPN again (Seth Greenberg? Dino Gaudio?) I'm off the Yow bandwagon.

[UNCfan]

That was FerryFor50, I believe.

I remember disagreeing and writing they would let him finish the season. Didn't think of the option where they would do both, haha.

Great call, Ferry.

I mentioned it in the weekly ACC column on Monday, but no one commented on it. Gotta build up my street cred.

[Troublemaker]

Is Archie Miller's record at Dayton significantly different than the two predecessors there -- Brian Gregory or Oliver Purnell (discounting Purnell's first few years, when he did the rebuilding job from the Jim O'Brien debacle)? Both used Dayton to springboard into the ACC; neither one did particularly well.

"Significantly" depends on how you define that, but he HAS been better, imo. Unless something weird happens, this will be Archie's 4th consecutive NCAA tourney appearance (and 4th in 6 total years), including an Elite 8.

Gregory made the tourney 2 times in 8 years at Dayton, never making it past the Round of 32.

Purnell made the tourney 2 times in 9 years at Dayton, never making it past the Round of 64.

[Owen Meany]

I think every school over-estimates how attractive they are to coaches. There is a sizable contingent of internet posters (perhaps not on this board), for example, who feel like Duke can get Brad Stevens to leave the Celtics when Coach K retires. That would surprise me. NCSU went through quite a list of candidates last time before plucking Gottfried off of ESPN (after he had left Alabama mid-season in his last job). It seemed like they were unable to land anyone on the coaching ranks that fans would find acceptable, so they went waaaaay outside the box. So with that in mind, I am going to predict that after a protracted search, numerous leaks, no thank yous and raises for candidates from other schools - that they eventually offer Chris Corchiani the job this time, despite his lack of experience, to placate a very unhappy fan base.

[Tripping William]

I think every school over-estimates how attractive they are to coaches. There is a sizable contingent of internet posters (perhaps not on this board), for example, who feel like Duke can get Brad Stevens to leave the Celtics when Coach K retires. That would surprise me. NCSU went through quite a list of candidates last time before plucking Gottfried off of ESPN (after he had left Alabama mid-season in his last job). It seemed like they were unable to land anyone on the coaching ranks that fans would find acceptable, so they went waaaaay outside the box. So with that in mind, I am going to predict that after a protracted search, numerous leaks, no thank yous and raises for candidates from other schools - that they eventually offer Chris Corchiani the job this time, despite his lack of experience, to placate a very unhappy fan base.

Karl Hess will be thrilled. :rolleyes:

[uh_no]

I think every school over-estimates how attractive they are to coaches.

Yow has a bit of a history overestimating the attractiveness of a school. One of the big reasons maryland ended up bolting was to pay the bills for the huge expansion to the football stadium and the xfinity center....none of which they can routinely fill. Given how much she seems to butt heads with people in general, i'm skeptical they'll get good reception here. I seem to recall her effectively saying "gottfried isn't really who we wanted to hire" during his introductory press conference....

[Jeffrey]

I'll never pity State. They had the best ACC player ever and could compete with prime-time UCLA. It's been all downhill from there due to one bad choice (AD, HC, player, etc.) after another.

[FadedTackyShirt]

NCSU will likely be competing with Illinois for a new coach. Both are chronic underachievers, overestimate their attractiveness, and will likely be interested in Archie Miller.

[53n206]

NCSU will likely be competing with Illinois for a new coach. Both are chronic underachievers, overestimate their attractiveness, and will likely be interested in Archie Miller.

I can never understand why Illinois doesn't have really fine football teams in basketball teams. Ideally situated. Fine university.

[TheDevilMadeMeDoIt]

I can never understand why Illinois doesn't have really fine football teams in basketball teams. Ideally situated. Fine university.

I think that State has a sales pitch to make to a young upcoming coach. Come to the ACC where you can become the new coach in a league where four Hall of Fame coaches will be retiring in the next few years. Be the first (well second behind Tony Bennett) to succeed the coaching legends. With a great hire State can be in a position to pass both UNC and Duke in a few years. I'm not saying that will happen, but as a life long Duke fan now approaching seventy years old, I'm not naive enough to believe that Duke, UNC, Syracuse and Louisville will all sustain their current level of success once the Hall of Famers retire.

[DU82]

"Significantly" depends on how you define that, but he HAS been better, imo. Unless something weird happens, this will be Archie's 4th consecutive NCAA tourney appearance (and 4th in 6 total years), including an Elite 8.

Gregory made the tourney 2 times in 8 years at Dayton, never making it past the Round of 32.

Purnell made the tourney 2 times in 9 years at Dayton, never making it past the Round of 64.

My question: Is NC State really a step up from Dayton right now? I know about ACC vs. A-10, but is the position really better?

Archie can wait for a better opportunity, be it IU or tOSU.

Heard from one State fan today believing that Bobby Hurley will leave ASU for Raleigh. That's about par for the course. STill waiting for Ryan Kelly's father-in-law to take over the football team. (THAT one was supposedly a done deal.)

[Wander]

Well, it was good enough to get him to the NCAA tournament in each of his first four years, and to the sweet 16 twice. He's not a total bum.

It's a fair point, but the meme that floated around DBR of "Gott always starts poorly but gets his team to the tournament in the end" was always silly. The line between making the tournament and missing it was very thin for those NC State teams. Credit the teams for pulling off some upsets in the tournament those years, but that's not a sustainable model of success.

[lotusland]

My question: Is NC State really a step up from Dayton right now? I know about ACC vs. A-10, but is the position really better?

Archie can wait for a better opportunity, be it IU or tOSU.

Heard from one State fan today believing that Bobby Hurley will leave ASU for Raleigh. That's about par for the course. STill waiting for Ryan Kelly's father-in-law to take over the football team. (THAT one was supposedly a done deal.)

Wouldn't really like Duke playing against Hurley but I suppose it would be a step up for him. Hopefully none of K's players or protege land in the acc. Seems like State also whiffed on Gregg Marshall last time. I think Marshall would actually be a great fit at State. I think he could succeed there and both UNC and Duke fans would most likely hate him. Marshall and Miller both can wait on a Blue Blood now if that's their preference.

[-jk]

Wouldn't really like Duke playing against Hurley but I suppose it would be a step up for him. Hopefully none of K's players or protege land in the acc. Seems like State also whiffed on Gregg Marshall last time. I think Marshall would actually be a great fit at State. I think he could succeed there and both UNC and Duke fans would most likely hate him. Marshall and Miller both can wait on a Blue Blood now if that's their preference.

Mike Brey waves Hi!

-jk

[TKG]

This link below is from the digital version of today's Raleigh N&O in which Roy claims that State approached him about their head coaching position years ago.

This guy's ego (inferiority complex?) knows no bounds.


UNC’s Roy Williams says he was offered NC State job long ago http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/unc/unc-now/article133435919.html

[Indoor66]

This link below is from the digital version of today's Raleigh N&O in which Roy claims that State approached him about their head coaching position years ago.

This guy's ego (inferiority complex?) knows no bounds.


UNC’s Roy Williams says he was offered NC State job long ago http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/unc/unc-now/article133435919.html

Maybe that was the first time he didn't give a $-=- about carolina.

[Newton_14]

State never fired Sendek ... although he was wildly unpopular with the fan base, he had the strong backing of the administration. True, he was in a position where one bad (non-NCAA) season may have killed him, but he left ahead of the posse.

But you are right that Sendek's departure led to a long and painful coaching search, headed by AD Lee Fowler.

His first target was John Calipari, then at Memphis, who played Fowler like a drum before getting a contract extension and a raise. Fowler looked at some other candidates (including Rick Barnes), but then targeted West Virginia coach John Beilein, who actually accepted the deal. The trouble was that he had a huge buyout at West Virginia and when State wouldn't pay it, he pulled out of the deal. Fowler ended up flirting with almost everybody possible -- Steve Lavin wanted it -- before finally being forced to settle for Lowe, who had never coached college basketball (even as an assistant).

Lowe provided a disaster and new AD Debbie Yow had to fire him.

The problem was that Maryland's Gary Williams hated Yow with a passion and did his best to sabotage her coaching search. I think the person she wanted to hire was Shaka Smart at VCU, but Williams got in Smart's ear and killed that hope. Her search didn't really last that long before she settled on Gottfried, who was an ESPN commentator.

If she ends up with Miller or someone like Mick Cronin or Chris Mack, I'll give her props ... but if she has to turn to ESPN again (Seth Greenberg? Dino Gaudio?) I'm off the Yow bandwagon.

The sad part is, Sean Miller later said he would have walked from Pittsburgh to Raleigh to take the job, but despite expressing interest through back channels, Uncle Jed never even considered him. Then, after NC State fires Sydney Lowe, Debbie Yow goes hard after Sean Miller who is then thriving at Arizona and likely Laughs Out Loud before turning the offer down. What could have been...

[Neals384]

(a) It changes the subject to the next coach -- which is good overall for State (and the leadership).

(b) It's a rule of defense in bridge -- if the opponent knows you have a card, you might as well play it. There's no secrecy about this -- Gottfried had to go. It's fine for him to finish the season (which is a lost cause).

You mean I'm not the only bridge player on DBR?


I mentioned it in the weekly ACC column on Monday, but no one commented on it. Gotta build up my street cred.

I see what you did there.

[Indoor66]

I mentioned it in the weekly ACC column on Monday, but no one commented on it. Gotta build up my street cred.

With a handle like that, this ain't happening!:mad::cool:

[curtis325]

You mean I'm not the only bridge player on DBR?

There is at least one more!