MBB: Duke vs Wake Forest (2/18, 1pm ET) Pre-game and in-game thread

[CDu]

Big win last night. We need to consolidate the win with a home win against Wake. Discuss.

[yancem]

I know some posters were hoping for some blowouts in some earlier games like Wake and Pitt but I liked the fact that they were close because I think it kept us hungry and built confidence in tight games. But I think it is now time to show we can crush a team also. A big lead will give us a chance to test Allen and Jefferson while getting some more solid minutes for Giles, Jackson and Bolden. It might also make the remaining teams on the schedule pause, knowing that we don't have to gut out all of our games.

[MChambers]

I know some posters were hoping for some blowouts in some earlier games like Wake and Pitt but I liked the fact that they were close because I think it kept us hungry and built confidence in tight games. But I think it is now time to show we can crush a team also. A big lead will give us a chance to test Allen and Jefferson while getting some more solid minutes for Giles, Jackson and Bolden. It might also make the remaining teams on the schedule pause, knowing that we don't have to gut out all of our games.

I'd be happy with a one point win. Wake is a pretty decent team (#34 in Pomeroy).

[brevity]

Discuss.

The only thing to discuss is why the Viewing Options for Wake Forest Game (including free stream) (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?39487) thread created by awhom111 isn't the pregame thread.

Duke is going to do Duke things. Wake is going to do Wake things. There's your keys to the game. But come Saturday, dozens of DBR procrastinators will frantically ask for help when they realize none of their ESPN channels are broadcasting the game. By then, if no thread merging occurs, the Viewing Options thread will be hidden on Page 3 of the Main Forum, and this thread will offer no help (aside from this post). They'll ask in this thread and, denied instant gratification, go to chat and ask there. Then it's up to me, or some other helpful schmuck, to look up the link to free streaming (http://www.theacc.com/game-center/57f3cffae4b0dcabe018ef07/) and post it there. I would do this not because I am nice, or fair, but because I really don't want to type out the play by play.

Brevity, knowing DBR better than DBR itself since 2008.

[Tripping William]

Our first rematch game (although four of the remaining five regular-season games will be rematches). Makes me very much miss the old double-round-robin. Danny Manning is probably scheming to stop Luke Kennard, after what happened over here in Deacland. And I have a feeling that the Crazies may have a hearty word or two ready for one Brandon Childress.

[Olympic Fan]

I'd be happy with a one point win. Wake is a pretty decent team (#34 in Pomeroy).

This ... Wake is not only very solid (a very good 3-point shooting team, surrounding the best big man in the ACC), but there are a desperate team on the NCAA bubble. Good RPI, but what they lack are good wins -- they are 0-7 vs. the top 25 and 1-8 vs. the top 50. A road win at Duke is the kind of thing that could get them in.

In recent years, Wake has been tough in Lawrence Joel, but not so much of a threat in Cameron. Remember in 2015, they took us to the wire in Joel, then in the late rematch in Durham, Duke blasted them 94-51 in Grayson Allen's breakout game (27 points)? I'd love to see something similar with Harry Giles -- who took a ton of abuse in Winston -- having his breakout game.

But I hope nobody is taking this one for granted.

[Eakane]

This ... Wake is not only very solid (a very good 3-point shooting team, surrounding the best big man in the ACC), but there are a desperate team on the NCAA bubble. Good RPI, but what they lack are good wins -- they are 0-7 vs. the top 25 and 1-8 vs. the top 50. A road win at Duke is the kind of thing that could get them in.

In recent years, Wake has been tough in Lawrence Joel, but not so much of a threat in Cameron. Remember in 2015, they took us to the wire in Joel, then in the late rematch in Durham, Duke blasted them 94-51 in Grayson Allen's breakout game (27 points)? I'd love to see something similar with Harry Giles -- who took a ton of abuse in Winston -- having his breakout game.

But I hope nobody is taking this one for granted.

Yes. THIS is the game for Giles and Bolden to show they've arrived. I want to see Giles playing with Bolden's power and Bolden playing with Giles' savvy. I want to see these guys just own Collins on both ends. Do that and you just might get your blowout.

[BandAlum83]

Go Duke!!!

[TruBlu]

I know some posters were hoping for some blowouts in some earlier games like Wake and Pitt but I liked the fact that they were close because I think it kept us hungry and built confidence in tight games. But I think it is now time to show we can crush a team also. A big lead will give us a chance to test Allen and Jefferson while getting some more solid minutes for Giles, Jackson and Bolden. It might also make the remaining teams on the schedule pause, knowing that we don't have to gut out all of our games.

I assume you meant "rest Allen and Jefferson". I would be in favor of not playing Allen at all to let his ankle heal, unless he is absolutely needed during the course of the game. As far as Jefferson, it has been said that playing on his injury would not further aggravate the injury. If this is true, there is no apparent reason to rest him.

[subzero02]

I know some posters were hoping for some blowouts in some earlier games like Wake and Pitt but I liked the fact that they were close because I think it kept us hungry and built confidence in tight games. But I think it is now time to show we can crush a team also. A big lead will give us a chance to test Allen and Jefferson while getting some more solid minutes for Giles, Jackson and Bolden. It might also make the remaining teams on the schedule pause, knowing that we don't have to gut out all of our games.
UNLV and Georgia Tech are both quite aware of our ability to crush teams. But I agree, it'd be nice to give Allen and Amile some rest(maybe Jones too). I'd welcome a blowout after 3 tense games in a row.

[jv001]

UNLV and Georgia Tech are both quite aware of our ability to crush teams. But I agree, it'd be nice to give Allen and Amile some rest(maybe Jones too). I'd welcome a blowout after 3 tense games in a row.

I would welcome a blow out as well, but I don't think it's going to be against Wake. The Deacs have a pretty good team with a balance of inside and outside play. I do want to see Grayson school Childress in this one. GoDuke!

[Devilwin]

I can see maybe resting Grayson, but not Amile. Mainly because we have a very capable back up in Frank, but Harry and Marquis are still learning the inside game..

[jv001]

I can see maybe resting Grayson, but not Amile. Mainly because we have a very capable back up in Frank, but Harry and Marquis are still learning the inside game..

Only in a blow out. But I do have confidence in them if Amile is in foul trouble. It seems Amile is making some really bad fouls. Something I didn't see before he was injured. It could be from not being able to do the things he did naturally before the injury. GoDuke!

[WVDUKEFAN]

I'm loving our defense. That's all I have to say about that.

[Saratoga2]

My memory may be faulty, but I thought the last game was very chippy and was called very tightly. Will this one face continuous stoppages and FT shooting? We got home court advantage so we should have a slight advantage. Hold serve is the name of the game.

[OldPhiKap]

My memory may be faulty, but I thought the last game was very chippy and was called very tightly. Will this one face continuous stoppages and FT shooting? We got home court advantage so we should have a slight advantage. Hold serve is the name of the game.

You remember correctly, and you are being kind. Wake tried to bait Grayson the entire game, and the way the game was called made it damn near impossible to watch. 30 fouls called on Duke, 20 on Wake. http://www.goduke.com/fls/4200/stats/2016-17/basketball-m/DU0128.pdf

[-jk]

You remember correctly, and you are being kind. Wake tried to bait Grayson the entire game, and the way the game was called made it damn near impossible to watch. 30 fouls called on Duke, 20 on Wake. http://www.goduke.com/fls/4200/stats/2016-17/basketball-m/DU0128.pdf

V. 12 to 21 at uva. Dang!, I miss flowy hoops!

-jk

[OldPhiKap]

V. 12 to 21 at uva. Dang!, I miss flowy hoops!

-jk

Agreed. And UVA's number is skewed by intentional fouling late.

I thought the Duke-UNC game was well-called in that regard as well.

[yancem]

I assume you meant "rest Allen and Jefferson". I would be in favor of not playing Allen at all to let his ankle heal, unless he is absolutely needed during the course of the game. As far as Jefferson, it has been said that playing on his injury would not further aggravate the injury. If this is true, there is no apparent reason to rest him.

Yes, I meant rest. Pretty pore proof reading on my part.

[davekay1971]

I have no comments on the game.

But I want to commend Brevity on the masterful level of his snark.

If Snark were a skill in Skyrim, Brevity would have taken it to 100, made it Legendary, and taken it to 100 again.

Brevity. He doesn't always post...but when he does, he prefers to snark. And he does it with the cool of Old Dos Equis Guy, not New Dos Equis Guy.

[sagegrouse]

Yes, I meant rest. Pretty pore proof reading on my part.

Well, noone is perfcet.

[dukelifer]

I expect another tight game. I think it is now the MO of this team. Wake is a solid team that has not learned how to close out games. Rematches which used to be common in the ACC- are tough. Duke will need to play well. Wake still has a shot to make the tourney with a signature win. If not Duke it will need to be Louisville.

[awhom111]

The only thing to discuss is why the Viewing Options for Wake Forest Game (including free stream) (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?39487) thread created by awhom111 isn't the pregame thread.

Duke is going to do Duke things. Wake is going to do Wake things. There's your keys to the game. But come Saturday, dozens of DBR procrastinators will frantically ask for help when they realize none of their ESPN channels are broadcasting the game. By then, if no thread merging occurs, the Viewing Options thread will be hidden on Page 3 of the Main Forum, and this thread will offer no help (aside from this post). They'll ask in this thread and, denied instant gratification, go to chat and ask there. Then it's up to me, or some other helpful schmuck, to look up the link to free streaming (http://www.theacc.com/game-center/57f3cffae4b0dcabe018ef07/) and post it there. I would do this not because I am nice, or fair, but because I really don't want to type out the play by play.

Brevity, knowing DBR better than DBR itself since 2008.

Well, I actually hate starting game threads because I always fear being blamed for jinxing the team if we lose. I did start the Clemson game thread twice though and that seemed to work out.

Having a separate thread seems like it should work better since you don't have to wade through basketball posts to find it, but I guess it is true that it tends to fall back in the forum over the course of the week.

[NSDukeFan]

Well, I actually hate starting game threads because I always fear being blamed for jinxing the team if we lose. I did start the Clemson game thread twice though and that seemed to work out.

Having a separate thread seems like it should work better since you don't have to wade through basketball posts to find it, but I guess it is true that it tends to fall back in the forum over the course of the week.

Don't worry about it. I don't completely blame you when our guys in the D League don't have good games, former players don't have good games overseas or the ratings for Duke games aren't where I would like them to be. Is it your fault Quinn hasn't been called up from the D league? 😀

[OldPhiKap]

Well, I actually hate starting game threads because I always fear being blamed for jinxing the team if we lose. I did start the Clemson game thread twice though and that seemed to work out.

Having a separate thread seems like it should work better since you don't have to wade through basketball posts to find it, but I guess it is true that it tends to fall back in the forum over the course of the week.


Don't worry about it. I don't completely blame you when our guys in the D League don't have good games, former players don't have good games overseas or the ratings for Duke games aren't where I would like them to be. Is it your fault Quinn hasn't been called up from the D league? 😀

Frankly, I have viewed awhom11 with suspicion ever since the Lindbergh baby kidnapping. (Whose 85th anniversary will be next week, btw).

[Indoor66]

Don't worry about it. I don't completely blame you when our guys in the D League don't have good games, former players don't have good games overseas or the ratings for Duke games aren't where I would like them to be. Is it your fault Quinn hasn't been called up from the D league? 😀

You are different from me. I blame him for all of that and more. :p:o:rolleyes::cool:

[superdave]

I expect another tight game. I think it is now the MO of this team. Wake is a solid team that has not learned how to close out games. Rematches which used to be common in the ACC- are tough. Duke will need to play well. Wake still has a shot to make the tourney with a signature win. If not Duke it will need to be Louisville.

I expect a tight game as well, but sometimes home rims are soft and the hoop looks big. Duke has not had everyone hitting all at once in a while. That could happen tomorrow.

I would love to see this team take a lead and use depth to wear Wake out. I have liked the 1-2-2 press and it should be helpful with Wake looking to initiate offense quickly. Why not go a little further and use Frank and Javin to trap a little? I can dream...

This team needs to learn to put a game on ice. The defense is there, but the offense goes cold with a small lead. Putting a team away is evidence this team has jumped a level. Not sure we will see it, but I'm looking for it.

[moonpie23]

who's gonna step up for duke? who's gonna have the hot hand? who's gonna make that "closer" play?

[MrPoon]

I would love to see Jackson assert himself a little more early. For many reasons, especially the ankle, I'd like to see GA play closer to 25-28 min range. Not jump starting the play the kids discussion! I'd just like GA to get healthier going into the ACC tourney. I suspect he didn't practice much this week. Jackson played 24 mins in first meeting. 9pts, 4 rb, 4 assists.

This is also the game where Jefferson only played 20 and we even had a Vrank sighting (6mins Bolden had 3).
Tatum had 21 mins, 8pts, 5 rb and fouled out. Anyone know if Vegas will take a bet on him beating those numbers?!

Looking for Wake to really muck it up and hope the refs help them. With Duke's increasing depth on offense, I think a slow pace and lots of hard contact is going to be what we see a lot of. Duke's interior had fouls trouble all game. Giles 4, Jefferson 4, Tatum 5, Vrank 4, even GA 4. We had fewer fouls than UVa which was one of my key take aways. Can we defend Collins (especially) and Crawford without fouling?

As an aside, I'd love some official reporting on practice time for the entire season and minutes lost this year. I.E. full compliment practicing. Again not trying to start the debate about PT, but this team is so talented that a full hard practice will make many of them better than some games. But we haven't had that accept a few times the entire season.

[Billy Dat]

who's gonna step up for duke?

Matt Jones on Crawford


who's gonna have the hot hand?

Tatum and Kennard (I'm really going out on a limb)


who's gonna make that "closer" play?

No need for it, I feel like we're going to win this one convincingly

[MrPoon]

No need for it, I feel like we're going to win this one convincingly

Feel fairly confident on this one too.
The next step in this team's growth is to put team's away.
The improved D will really have a chance to showcase itself because it didn't help @Wake.
But a double digit win on the road against UVa is actually a bigger number becauase it is played in such a tight range (we had more than 15% more points than they did :)). Take a lead... send them home.

[rsvman]

... Jackson played 24 mins in first meeting. 9pts, 4 rb, 4 assists.

This is also the game where Jefferson only played 20 and we even had a Vrank sighting (6mins Bolden had 3).
Tatum had 21 mins, 8pts, 5 rb and fouled out. ....

I'm sure you also remember that this was a game that Coach Capel coached.


I don't know how minutes will be distributed tomorrow, but I don't know how much relevance the first game's minutes has to what ends up happening, because the decisions are being made by a different person.

I, too, hope Grayson gets some rest, which would mean getting Jackson a few more minutes. I'd love to see more Bolden inside. I highly doubt that Vrank will sniff the floor unless it's a blow-out.

[OldPhiKap]

I was disappointed at the way that Wake tried to goad Grayson last time. That punk move in the corner by our bench (blocking GA in the corner and then someone coming over and throwing him to the bench), as well as an earlier incident at a time out near the Wake bench, was bush league.

I expect more from Danny Manning, really.

Hope we bury the SOBs. Payback's a witch. Our House.

[devildeac]

I was disappointed at the way that Wake tried to goad Grayson last time. That punk move in the corner by our bench (blocking GA in the corner and then someone coming over and throwing him to the bench), as well as an earlier incident at a time out near the Wake bench, was bush league.

I expect more from Danny Manning, really.

Hope we bury the SOBs. Payback's a witch. Our House.

You might take a little heat for that post but I got your back on this one. Totally. No excuse for the elbow in the back as Grayson appeared to walk away from the fray (IIRC) before the also inexcusable bearhug/body slam into the bench. Our bench. Maybe K can suit up Patrick Davidson for a play or two in this one.

[OldPhiKap]

Maybe K can suit up Patrick Davidson for a play or two in this one.

Vrank's on the job.

[FadedTackyShirt]

OT, but what type of reception do Duke fans receive at games vs Wake in Winston-Salem?

Have seen games vs all ACC schools except for Lville and ND in CIS and everyone but Maryland (good riddance) and NC State fans were fine. No problems with anyone other than Maryland fans @ the ACC Tournament. Minimal problems in the Dean Dome, UVa, and Syracuse. Hope to see the Devils on the road in every ACC arena before K retires.

[Edouble]

Feel fairly confident on this one too.
The next step in this team's growth is to put team's away.
The improved D will really have a chance to showcase itself because it didn't help @Wake.
But a double digit win on the road against UVa is actually a bigger number becauase it is played in such a tight range (we had more than 15% more points than they did :)). Take a lead... send them home.

Put the team's what away? Their lunch money?

I agree that we should win this one going away. It's as close to a payback game as you can get when we won the first match.


I was disappointed at the way that Wake tried to goad Grayson last time. That punk move in the corner by our bench (blocking GA in the corner and then someone coming over and throwing him to the bench), as well as an earlier incident at a time out near the Wake bench, was bush league.

I expect more from Danny Manning, really.

Hope we bury the SOBs. Payback's a witch. Our House.

Yes, again, I agree that there is much payback to be had despite winning the first game. Wake acted like a bunch of punks. We are also a better team than we were the last time we played.

Our House x infinity!

[ChillinDuke]

If I know anything about Duke after all these years, this just feels like a game that we will win easily. No jinxes, no funny business, no fear. Just feels like the sort of game that will give you a split screen view of where this team was (at Wake) and where this team is now (vs Wake).

Can't wait!

- Chillin

[CDu]

Wake poses the same problems as they did going into the last game.

They have two really good, All-ACC-caliber perimeter players:
- Crawford is the lead guard and is a real handful all over the court. Athletic, strong, good shooter, great off the dribble. He will be a very tough assignment for Jones.
- Woods is the other key perimeter guy. He is a better shooter (career 47% 3pt shooter)

Inside, the man is Collins. He averages 18.5 ppg and 9.4 rpg. He's a stud. Along with Collins, Mitoglou is the other starter. He is like a bulky, less-gifted defensive version of Ryan Kelly. Came in as a pure stretch big, but has bulked up to handle post duty as well. They also have a monster off the bench in Doral Moore, who plays about 10 mpg.

Aside from those guys, Austin Arians is a stout, unathletic, perimeter shooting specialist who plays both forward spots. Wilbekin is a shooting specialist as well. Both shoot about 40% and space the floor for Wake's big 3.

They'll also throw Childress in there. Childress is super quick and can handle the ball, but can't shoot.

We will have a big advantage with Tatum against whomever tries to guard him. Neither Mitoglou nor Arians stands a chance. They'll probably try to hide one of the two on Jones and pray that someone can stay in front of Tatum. Hopefully Tatum brings his "A" game, because this is a serious mismatch.

Aside from that, keeping Jones on the floor to guard one of Crawford and Woods from going off. We'll also need our other guards to not lose complete track of Woods/Crawford (whoever is off ball), Arians, and Wilbekin. And we will need Jefferson, Giles, and (if necessary) Bolden to bring their "A" games against Collins.

[Saratoga2]

Wake poses the same problems as they did going into the last game.

They have two really good, All-ACC-caliber perimeter players:
- Crawford is the lead guard and is a real handful all over the court. Athletic, strong, good shooter, great off the dribble. He will be a very tough assignment for Jones.
- Woods is the other key perimeter guy. He is a better shooter (career 47% 3pt shooter)

Inside, the man is Collins. He averages 18.5 ppg and 9.4 rpg. He's a stud. Along with Collins, Mitoglou is the other starter. He is like a bulky, less-gifted defensive version of Ryan Kelly. Came in as a pure stretch big, but has bulked up to handle post duty as well. They also have a monster off the bench in Doral Moore, who plays about 10 mpg.

Aside from those guys, Austin Arians is a stout, unathletic, perimeter shooting specialist who plays both forward spots. Wilbekin is a shooting specialist as well. Both shoot about 40% and space the floor for Wake's big 3.

They'll also throw Childress in there. Childress is super quick and can handle the ball, but can't shoot.

We will have a big advantage with Tatum against whomever tries to guard him. Neither Mitoglou nor Arians stands a chance. They'll probably try to hide one of the two on Jones and pray that someone can stay in front of Tatum. Hopefully Tatum brings his "A" game, because this is a serious mismatch.

Aside from that, keeping Jones on the floor to guard one of Crawford and Woods from going off. We'll also need our other guards to not lose complete track of Woods/Crawford (whoever is off ball), Arians, and Wilbekin. And we will need Jefferson, Giles, and (if necessary) Bolden to bring their "A" games against Collins.

Like you, I see this as a competitive match although we should gain an advantage by being the home team. Tatum should be a major mismatch offensively, so he should be especially aware of picking up avoidable fouls. We have seen what Kennard can do against this team when asked to so that leaves the question of who our 3rd major scorer will be. Is Grayson able to play at anything like his efficiency when fully healthy or will we need to rely more on Frank? Also can Amile and Harry hold their own? The other question to me is how physical will the game become? The refs can have a say in how this game proceeds as well.

[OldPhiKap]

Duke opens as a 10-point favorite.

[BandAlum83]

Duke opens as a 10-point favorite.

Together with other news on this board, it seems the Duke bandwagon is filling up and getting ready to leave the station!

[jv001]

Like you, I see this as a competitive match although we should gain an advantage by being the home team. Tatum should be a major mismatch offensively, so he should be especially aware of picking up avoidable fouls. We have seen what Kennard can do against this team when asked to so that leaves the question of who our 3rd major scorer will be. Is Grayson able to play at anything like his efficiency when fully healthy or will we need to rely more on Frank? Also can Amile and Harry hold their own? The other question to me is how physical will the game become? The refs can have a say in how this game proceeds as well.

I'll say that Amile needs to not make any bonehead fouls because we need him to guard Collins. However we do have Harry ready to step in and I'm hoping he wants payback for the way the Deacon fans treated him in Winston Salem. I think it will be a close game and I'm hoping to see Duke hit the 3 ball regularly. GoDuke!

[DU82]

OT, but what type of reception do Duke fans receive at games vs Wake in Winston-Salem?

Have seen games vs all ACC schools except for Lville and ND in CIS and everyone but Maryland (good riddance) and NC State fans were fine. No problems with anyone other than Maryland fans @ the ACC Tournament. Minimal problems in the Dean Dome, UVa, and Syracuse. Hope to see the Devils on the road in every ACC arena before K retires.

For basketball, I've been to the entire league through FSU, sans SC, going back to '82. I usually say that for a visiting fan, the "safest" arena, by far, is Cameron. After that comes Chapel Hill. I've had problems at State and Maryland, although the State issues have gone away (it's bad when the ushers refuse to provide security for official visiting team family/friends, but that was back in Reynolds.) I've also had issues at Wake with fans, similar to what we all saw on the screen (or in person) last month. I've been in the student section (that's where they gave us tickets) at Clemson, no problem. At UVa, other than one trip to JPJ before Bennett, were to UHall. No loss there, the round shape caused everybody to be so far from the court (and the team seats were on the floor, without risers, so impossible to see anything.) I wish I had gotten to GT when they were good, there was no atmosphere when I finally got there. Went to Leon County (FSU) before renovations, again a really so-so visit (we won, so it wasn't a bad trip!)

For football, I've been everywhere except BC, FSU and Miami, including SC and MD. Haven't really had many problems (went to most of the original 8 while in DUMB, so different than as an older fan these past few years.) Notre Dame and Clemson stand out for being very polite after we upset them. I only went to MAryland once, before the "rivalry" got bitter, so it was benign. (Not in conference, but if you get a chance to go to Army this coming season, or NAvy next time we play them in Annapolis, try to go. Great experiences there.)

[wavedukefan70s]

After the crud that went on at thier place.i hope we throttle them to tears.i want them to have a very unpleasant experience.

[Furniture]

OT, but what type of reception do Duke fans receive at games vs Wake in Winston-Salem?
.

Perfectly fine. I have been there twice and had zero issues. It's amazing really for someone from the U.K. Brought up watching soccer. Going to an opposing teams ground is very dangerous. The segregation inside the stadium is ok but after the game if you take the wrong direction a smack in the mouth is the minimum you can expect from the local hooligans!!

[Bob Green]

who's gonna have the hot hand?

I'll go with CDu's answer...


We will have a big advantage with Tatum against whomever tries to guard him. Neither Mitoglou nor Arians stands a chance. They'll probably try to hide one of the two on Jones and pray that someone can stay in front of Tatum. Hopefully Tatum brings his "A" game, because this is a serious mismatch.

Tatum has pressed things at times this season which resulted in bad decisions but when he plays within himself he is a darn tough match up. Coach K usually finds a way to exploit a tough match up.

Matt Jones' defense on Crawford will be a critical ingredient to success as well. Jones will be the unsung hero once again today.

[Indoor66]

I'll go with CDu's answer...



Tatum has pressed things at times this season which resulted in bad decisions but when he plays within himself he is a darn tough match up. Coach K usually finds a way to exploit a tough match up.

Matt Jones' defense on Crawford will be a critical ingredient to success as well. Jones will be the unsung hero once again today.

If he plays like last game, I'll sing for him. :):cool:

[75Crazie]

Interesting quote from today's front-page article, reviewing Wake:

The other problem is less obvious but still critical: Manning is really only confident in seven of his players. ... This probably has a lot to do with why Wake tends to burn out in the second half of intense games -- they could use one or two more players to give the main guys a better blow.
Is game-time development of bench depth only a priority for teams other than Duke?

[lotusland]

Well, noone is perfcet.

Precicely.

[-jk]

DBR Chat (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/misc.php?do=cchatbox) is open!

If it gets a bit slow, refresh the page. If you're on a mobile device, you'll need to select "Blue" at the bottom.

As always - please follow the DBR Posting Guidelines.

Let's Go Duke!

-jk

[OldPhiKap]

DBR Chat (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/misc.php?do=cchatbox) is open!

If it gets a bit slow, refresh the page. If you're on a mobile device, you'll need to select "Blue" at the bottom.

As always - please follow the DBR Posting Guidelines.

Let's Go Duke!

-jk

Wow, opening the chat early for a 1:00 game. Must've been a lot of posters tenting to get in the chat room last night.

I hope we squash these guys. Hard. For 40 full minutes.

[brevity]

The only thing to discuss is why the Viewing Options for Wake Forest Game (including free stream) (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?39487) thread created by awhom111 isn't the pregame thread.

Duke is going to do Duke things. Wake is going to do Wake things. There's your keys to the game. But come Saturday, dozens of DBR procrastinators will frantically ask for help when they realize none of their ESPN channels are broadcasting the game. By then, if no thread merging occurs, the Viewing Options thread will be hidden on Page 3 of the Main Forum, and this thread will offer no help (aside from this post). They'll ask in this thread and, denied instant gratification, go to chat and ask there. Then it's up to me, or some other helpful schmuck, to look up the link to free streaming (http://www.theacc.com/game-center/57f3cffae4b0dcabe018ef07/) and post it there. I would do this not because I am nice, or fair, but because I really don't want to type out the play by play.

Brevity, knowing DBR better than DBR itself since 2008.

Well, I was wrong about at least one thing. There was enough discussion to keep the Viewing Options thread on the first page.

[-jk]

Wow, opening the chat early for a 1:00 game. Must've been a lot of posters tenting to get in the chat room last night.

I hope we squash these guys. Hard. For 40 full minutes.

Just a weird morning and I didn't want to forget.

-jk

[wilson]

Is game-time development of bench depth only a priority for teams other than Duke?Why should it be a priority for Duke simply because it's a priority for Wake?
This conversation comes up repeatedly here, and the fact is that, no, K does not appear to place a high premium on establishing a lot of depth (at least if you measure depth in terms of number of players averaging significant minutes).
K's national championship teams at Duke have featured:


1991--9 players averaging double digit minutes (admittedly a high number of such players)
1992--7 players averaging double digit minutes
2001--7 players averaging double digit minutes (this includes Casey Sanders, who likely would not have crossed this threshold had Boozer not been injured late in the season)
2010--8 players averaging double digit minutes
2015--7 players averaging double digit minutes

This year, we have 7 players averaging double digit minutes (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/stats/_/id/150/duke-blue-devils) (and that discounts Chase Jeter, who actually averages double digit minutes in the games in which he appears, but also has 10 DNP-CD's).
We also had a recent conversation about how depth doesn't just mean X number of players playing X number of minutes per game (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?39485-MBB-Duke-65-UVA-55-Post-Game-Thread&p=952043#post952043); rather it's about having as many players as possible READY to play.
The fact of the matter is that a) yes, K is content to play with a pretty short bench, especially late in the season, and b) K's teams have demonstrated in the past that low MPG doesn't necessarily mean that the team isn't "deep" in the sense of having a large number of players ready to contribute. Furthermore, the rampant injuries to this year's team have clearly hindered the development of "depth" as defined strictly by MPG.
I don't understand why this continues to be a point of complaint for some fans.

[BandAlum83]

Why should it be a priority for Duke simply because it's a priority for Wake?
This conversation comes up repeatedly here, and the fact is that, no, K does not appear to place a high premium on establishing a lot of depth (at least if you measure depth in terms of number of players averaging significant minutes).
K's national championship teams at Duke have featured:


1991--9 players averaging double digit minutes (admittedly a high number of such players)
1992--7 players averaging double digit minutes
2001--7 players averaging double digit minutes (this includes Casey Sanders, who likely would not have crossed this threshold had Boozer not been injured late in the season)
2010--8 players averaging double digit minutes
2015--7 players averaging double digit minutes

This year, we have 7 players averaging double digit minutes (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/stats/_/id/150/duke-blue-devils) (and that discounts Chase Jeter, who actually averages double digit minutes in the games in which he appears, but also has 10 DNP-CD's).
We also had a recent conversation about how depth doesn't just mean X number of players playing X number of minutes per game (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?39485-MBB-Duke-65-UVA-55-Post-Game-Thread&p=952043#post952043); rather it's about having as many players as possible READY to play.
The fact of the matter is that a) yes, K is content to play with a pretty short bench, especially late in the season, and b) K's teams have demonstrated in the past that low MPG doesn't necessarily mean that the team isn't "deep" in the sense of having a large number of players ready to contribute. Furthermore, the rampant injuries to this year's team have clearly hindered the development of "depth" as defined strictly by MPG.
I don't understand why this continues to be a point of complaint for some fans.

I think the point was that if K only goes 7 deep game time, why would we assume Wake would have to go deeper?

Do our kids have something special that keeps them from getting gassed (or burn out -as the OP wrote), while Danny Manning's kids need more bench assistance?

Why would it be a key to the game, when K clearly doesn't think it's a key for our side?

But that was just my interpretation of the post.

[FadedTackyShirt]

For basketball, I've been to the entire league through FSU, sans SC, going back to '82. I usually say that for a visiting fan, the "safest" arena, by far, is Cameron. After that comes Chapel Hill. I've had problems at State and Maryland, although the State issues have gone away (it's bad when the ushers refuse to provide security for official visiting team family/friends, but that was back in Reynolds.) I've also had issues at Wake with fans, similar to what we all saw on the screen (or in person) last month. I've been in the student section (that's where they gave us tickets) at Clemson, no problem. At UVa, other than one trip to JPJ before Bennett, were to UHall. No loss there, the round shape caused everybody to be so far from the court (and the team seats were on the floor, without risers, so impossible to see anything.) I wish I had gotten to GT when they were good, there was no atmosphere when I finally got there. Went to Leon County (FSU) before renovations, again a really so-so visit (we won, so it wasn't a bad trip!)

For football, I've been everywhere except BC, FSU and Miami, including SC and MD. Haven't really had many problems (went to most of the original 8 while in DUMB, so different than as an older fan these past few years.) Notre Dame and Clemson stand out for being very polite after we upset them. I only went to MAryland once, before the "rivalry" got bitter, so it was benign. (Not in conference, but if you get a chance to go to Army this coming season, or NAvy next time we play them in Annapolis, try to go. Great experiences there.)

Thanks to you and Furniture for your responses. Trying to goad my Duke friends into running the ACC table in hoops and football. The ACC microbrewery pub crawls from the other board are an additional enticing carrot.

Would love to see a football game @ West Point. Both Navy and Air Force home football games are special.

Euro soccer is wild. Nearly got caught in the middle of a post-game riot in Dresden the last year of the East German Bundesliga. Highly amused by surly five year olds shaking people down for parking in Liverpool.

[budwom]

Why should it be a priority for Duke simply because it's a priority for Wake?
This conversation comes up repeatedly here, and the fact is that, no, K does not appear to place a high premium on establishing a lot of depth (at least if you measure depth in terms of number of players averaging significant minutes).
K's national championship teams at Duke have featured:


1991--9 players averaging double digit minutes (admittedly a high number of such players)
1992--7 players averaging double digit minutes
2001--7 players averaging double digit minutes (this includes Casey Sanders, who likely would not have crossed this threshold had Boozer not been injured late in the season)
2010--8 players averaging double digit minutes
2015--7 players averaging double digit minutes

This year, we have 7 players averaging double digit minutes (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/stats/_/id/150/duke-blue-devils) (and that discounts Chase Jeter, who actually averages double digit minutes in the games in which he appears, but also has 10 DNP-CD's).
We also had a recent conversation about how depth doesn't just mean X number of players playing X number of minutes per game (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?39485-MBB-Duke-65-UVA-55-Post-Game-Thread&p=952043#post952043); rather it's about having as many players as possible READY to play.
The fact of the matter is that a) yes, K is content to play with a pretty short bench, especially late in the season, and b) K's teams have demonstrated in the past that low MPG doesn't necessarily mean that the team isn't "deep" in the sense of having a large number of players ready to contribute. Furthermore, the rampant injuries to this year's team have clearly hindered the development of "depth" as defined strictly by MPG.
I don't understand why this continues to be a point of complaint for some fans.


I applaud the distinction you make about Jeter not averaging double figure minutes when you count the games for which he was available but didn't play. His official 14.9 minutes per game is grossly misleading.

[gam7]

Why should it be a priority for Duke simply because it's a priority for Wake?
This conversation comes up repeatedly here, and the fact is that, no, K does not appear to place a high premium on establishing a lot of depth (at least if you measure depth in terms of number of players averaging significant minutes).
K's national championship teams at Duke have featured:


1991--9 players averaging double digit minutes (admittedly a high number of such players)
1992--7 players averaging double digit minutes
2001--7 players averaging double digit minutes (this includes Casey Sanders, who likely would not have crossed this threshold had Boozer not been injured late in the season)
2010--8 players averaging double digit minutes
2015--7 players averaging double digit minutes

This year, we have 7 players averaging double digit minutes (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/stats/_/id/150/duke-blue-devils) (and that discounts Chase Jeter, who actually averages double digit minutes in the games in which he appears, but also has 10 DNP-CD's).
We also had a recent conversation about how depth doesn't just mean X number of players playing X number of minutes per game (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?39485-MBB-Duke-65-UVA-55-Post-Game-Thread&p=952043#post952043); rather it's about having as many players as possible READY to play.
The fact of the matter is that a) yes, K is content to play with a pretty short bench, especially late in the season, and b) K's teams have demonstrated in the past that low MPG doesn't necessarily mean that the team isn't "deep" in the sense of having a large number of players ready to contribute. Furthermore, the rampant injuries to this year's team have clearly hindered the development of "depth" as defined strictly by MPG.
I don't understand why this continues to be a point of complaint for some fans.


I applaud the distinction you make about Jeter not averaging double figure minutes when you count the games for which he was available but didn't play. His official 14.9 minutes per game is grossly misleading.

The 2015 number doesn't tell the whole story. Marshall Plumlee played in every game and averaged 9.6 minutes per game. Also, Grayson averaged 9.2 minutes per game, but considering that he and Sulaimon were kind of mutually exclusive, I'd say it's right to not count both of them.

Also, if you are going to distinguish Jeter in 2017, it is worth noting that seldom used players in each of 2001 (Andre Sweet), 2010 (Olek Czyz) and 2015 (Semi Ojeleye) averaged double digit minutes (though they appear to have been appropriately omitted from your numbers).

[wilson]

The 2015 number doesn't tell the whole story. Marshall Plumlee played in every game and averaged 9.6 minutes per game. Also, Grayson averaged 9.2 minutes per game, but considering that he and Sulaimon were kind of mutually exclusive, I'd say it's right to not count both of them.

Also, if you are going to distinguish Jeter in 2017, it is worth noting that seldom used players in each of 2001 (Andre Sweet), 2010 (Olek Czyz) and 2015 (Semi Ojeleye) averaged double digit minutes (though they appear to have been appropriately omitted from your numbers).Good points throughout this post. And yes, I did omit Sweet, Czyz, and Ojeleye, which I should have mentioned; I just figured everyone could agree that their abortive Duke careers could be comfortably left out of this discussion (each of them sat out the ACC portions of the seasons in question in accordance with transfer rules, so they played very few meaningful minutes in a Duke uniform).

[75Crazie]

I think the point was that if K only goes 7 deep game time, why would we assume Wake would have to go deeper?

Do our kids have something special that keeps them from getting gassed (or burn out -as the OP wrote), while Danny Manning's kids need more bench assistance?

Why would it be a key to the game, when K clearly doesn't think it's a key for our side?

But that was just my interpretation of the post.
Thank you for the spot-on interpretation. Sometimes I don't realize that something that is clear inside my noggin isn't necessarily clear to others if all I do is cloak it with a slight dose of sarcasm. I was just struck by the incongruity of a statement on our public-facing front page against the high, never-ending volume of discussion inside our forums, where the weight of such discussion appears to come down on the opposite side of what was presented in the front page article.

[riverside6]

Live tempo-based stats for Duke/Wake Forest...

http://www.scacchoops.com/wake-forest-at-duke-basketball-live-stats-02182017

[kmspeaks]

I don't actually watch the NBA, but this game is pretty much what I imagine the league to be. Lots of made shots, defense optional.

[fuse]

Once again making it harder on themselves than it needs to be.

C'mon defense. Let's Go Duke!!!

[accfanfrom1970]

Lots of layups. Defense from Duke is non-existent.

[CDu]

I don't actually watch the NBA, but this game is pretty much what I imagine the league to be. Lots of made shots, defense optional.

That is a common misconception. Defense in the NBA is very good. Much better than this.

The defense in this game - as you said - has been awful.

[Karl Beem]

Don't guard Collins. That's the ticket!

[Kfanarmy]

That is a common misconception. Defense in the NBA is very good. Much better than this.

The defense in this game - as you said - has been awful.

Yep. D pretty much limited to shooter accuracy.

[fgb]

wake's 2nd highest 1st half score of the season. not good for an "improving" defense. coach ain't happy right now.

[Tripping William]

Quite a first half for the _evils and _eacs.

[downeastdad]

Quite a first half for the _evils and _eacs.

Good one!

[ncexnyc]

Defense better get drastically better if they want to come away with a win

[InSpades]

Maybe put a guy on that Collins kid? Maybe 2 guys? Keep putting another guy on him until you can stop him...

To be fair he looks like he doesn't miss so I'm not sure what the best way is to cover him but... maybe we should try to do a little more.

[downeastdad]

Maybe we could at least wave at them as they go by.

[Karl Beem]

Jackson let him go!?!

[accfanfrom1970]

Everyone is letting them go. Layup drill.

[snowdenscold]

Everyone is letting them go. Layup drill.

Layup drill where thankfully they have missed the last two critical ones at the end here.