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View Full Version : MBB: Duke 65, UVA 55 Post-Game Thread



JBDuke
02-15-2017, 11:07 PM
Put your post-game thoughts here.

kshepinthehouse
02-15-2017, 11:09 PM
Anyone still want Jefferson and Giles in at the same time?

fisheyes
02-15-2017, 11:09 PM
Tatum is a stud.

Great things from Giles tonight!

Great D!

It's coming together!!!

Go Duke!!!

Troublemaker
02-15-2017, 11:10 PM
Very good win!

Great defense, and frankly, great offense, too, in the second half, led by Mr. Tatum and the PNR scheme we ran.

Native
02-15-2017, 11:11 PM
Jayson. Tatum.

Troublemaker
02-15-2017, 11:11 PM
The guy guarding Jayson is going to be on the ACC's all defensive team, btw. And could be DPOY.

jhmoss1812
02-15-2017, 11:11 PM
Good game guys! Ugly game to watch as expected but Tatum was sensational tonight. We had no answer for him. As I mentioned in another thread, Duke is a very bad matchup for us and we're a very flawed team. Predicted a 5 point Duke win. I was a little off lol. Good luck the rest of the way.

arnie
02-15-2017, 11:12 PM
Anyone still want Jefferson and Giles in at the same time?

That's the first post after a great win??

COYS
02-15-2017, 11:12 PM
Great win! Jayson was awesome on both ends. Also, we need a triple bonus after the 12th foul. The end was insufferable.

davekay1971
02-15-2017, 11:12 PM
The guy guarding Jayson is going to be on the ACC's all defensive team, btw. And could be DPOY.

Jayson was not defendable in the 2nd half. Those 3s...they could not have been better defended...and Jayson just crushed those shots.

Duke76
02-15-2017, 11:12 PM
Put your post-game thoughts here.

Doug Collins, man of the game...what a relief to hear him...think he really had a moderating effect on Jay

mgtr
02-15-2017, 11:13 PM
Delighted with the win, but I guess any game against UVa, win or loss, will be ugly.

WHOneedsSOX
02-15-2017, 11:13 PM
As Jay Bilas would say, "What a game by Jayson Tatum! What a game!"

InSpades
02-15-2017, 11:14 PM
Jayson... I never doubted your game but I did doubt your 3-pt shot. For this I am sorry!

Jayson obviously played a heck of a game but props to Harry Giles as well. He made some nice plays and showed some defensive quickness. It's certainly been baby steps but they are baby steps in the right direction!

Let's keep this momentum going!

Emerrick
02-15-2017, 11:14 PM
Tatum - Stud
Matt - shut down Perrantes
Solid game for most
Great minutes from Harry and Bolden. Harry looked best I've seen yet. Moving much better, getting quicker.

Starting to look pretty good!

wilson
02-15-2017, 11:14 PM
Great win. I'd put it alongside carolina as the biggest of the season. The defense was fantastic tonight...kept us in a typical grinder with the 'Hoos. But the offense was also sneaky good in the second half. I'll be interested to see points per possession for the 2nd half...I'd be willing to bet it was quite good.
Obviously, Jayson Tatum was sensational. Good minutes from Giles as well. There's lots to be encouraged about tonight.
I can't deny that there are some shades of 2015 in tonight's performance...

rsvman
02-15-2017, 11:14 PM
Good game guys! Ugly game to watch as expected but Tatum was sensational tonight. We had no answer for him. As I mentioned in another thread, Duke is a very bad matchup for us and we're a very flawed team. Predicted a 5 point Duke win. I was a little off lol. Good luck the rest of the way.

This is an impressive post from a guy whose team just lost a tough game. Thanks for being gracious.

FerryFor50
02-15-2017, 11:15 PM
Great win. Solid defense for most of the 2nd half (until the last couple minutes when they were just avoiding fouls) and some solid efforts out of most everyone. Also awesome - cut down the turnovers in the 2nd and hit a vast majority of the FTs down the stretch in a physical game.

Would have liked to see Duke keep UVA off the offensive boards better (how did UVA outperform UNC on the offensive glass against Duke??) but that, and Allen's off night, were really the only negatives from that game.

Getting closer to the top 10 and 1st place in ACC!

Ultrarunner
02-15-2017, 11:15 PM
The gentlemen played really solid defense with only a few lapses. After getting abused for years (it seems) by the PNR, love that we've started to run it and take advantage of our mobility.

Do not piss off Jayson - he will make you pay.

Harry is starting to look like a player. May he continue to improve.

Rest. Especially Grayson. Get more healthy.

Finish the year out strong.

tbyers11
02-15-2017, 11:16 PM
Very good win!

Great defense, and frankly, great offense, too, in the second half, led by Mr. Tatum and the PNR scheme we ran.

Agreed. D was great all game. Switching the PNR attack scheme at half to have the big roll hard and have the ball handler stop and come back the other way was a great move. When UVa made a couple of shots and put some game pressure on us Tatum took over.

Shout out to Harry for his best game as a Dukie as well.

FerryFor50
02-15-2017, 11:16 PM
Good game guys! Ugly game to watch as expected but Tatum was sensational tonight. We had no answer for him. As I mentioned in another thread, Duke is a very bad matchup for us and we're a very flawed team. Predicted a 5 point Duke win. I was a little off lol. Good luck the rest of the way.

Classy way to close out the game by UVA. No fouling in last 30 seconds and after Duke took the shot clock violation, UVA just set the ball on the court.

Dennis Smith, Seventh Woods, take note.

WHOneedsSOX
02-15-2017, 11:16 PM
That rebound by Giles in the 2nd half where he jumped over the UVA player to get it was really impressive. Showing his athleticism is slowly coming back.

Billy Dat
02-15-2017, 11:17 PM
Big time win, even though Virginia's offense is god awful. I want to applaid our D but it did feel more like their O was awful.

Second Half Tatum not only provided the two late daggers but his all around game was awesome...boards, D, etc.

Harry's minutes were great, I thought he should have played more.

Big game for Luke handling the ball a ton against that D and I thought Matt's defensive presence was palpable.

Grayson and Amile didn't look 100% but they played hard.

Frank gave us good minutes, I thought.

Really big win for this squad. It was an ugly rock fight on the road and the boys took care of biz. So sweet!

jhmoss1812
02-15-2017, 11:17 PM
This is an impressive post from a guy whose team just lost a tough game. Thanks for being gracious.

It wasn't that tough of a loss. We were thoroughly outplayed the entire night.

Coballs
02-15-2017, 11:17 PM
Absolutely ecstatic about this win. IMO, the most impressive game of the year considering the opponent, venue and style of play. UVA is not a great team because they are limited offensively, but they are still extremely troublesome and can beat anyone on any given night. Early on they were able to dictate the tempo and impose their defensive and physical style which was certainly helped by the the officials who, for once, decided to swallow their whistles. But Duke fought through it, played great team defensive, and let Tatum's NBA-level talent take over the game when Luke and Grayson were both having tough nights. Giles was great at both ends of the court and I expect his minutes and contributions to continue to expand.

Doria
02-15-2017, 11:17 PM
Always a grind against UVA, but feels good to win! And yes, I still remember when I used to groan every time Jayson attempted a three-pointer, but not anymore.

kshepinthehouse
02-15-2017, 11:18 PM
That's the first post after a great win??

Sarcasm. This was in reference to another thread. Shoes how dangerous we are with Tatum at the 4. There are very few 4s in the country who can guard Tatum.

NYBri
02-15-2017, 11:19 PM
Always feel like it's a game played in mud against UVA...

But GREAT win! Played 23 seconds of defense every trip. 6 in a row and gaining mo!

:cool:

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
02-15-2017, 11:19 PM
Tatum plays so much better when he lets the game come to him. So much talent. He showed tonight that he has the potential to carry this team deep into March.

pfrduke
02-15-2017, 11:20 PM
Great win. I'd put it alongside carolina as the biggest of the season. The defense was fantastic tonight...kept us in a typical grinder with the 'Hoos. But the offense was also sneaky good in the second half. I'll be interested to see points per possession for the 2nd half...I'd be willing to bet it was quite good.
Obviously, Jayson Tatum was sensational. Good minutes from Giles as well. There's lots to be encouraged about tonight.
I can't deny that there are some shades of 2015 in tonight's performance...

We scored 44 points on 30 possessions, including the shot clock violation at the end. Before the intentional fouling, it was 33 points on 23 possessions. Both of those are really good.

wsb3
02-15-2017, 11:21 PM
I will be the first to tell you when we lost to State & were behind the Wake game until the end that I did not predict a 6 game win streak. It is more than the wins for me it is how tough this team has become. Regardless of how this plays out in the end I am incredibly proud of this team.

The team defense tonight I thought was outstanding. Giles I thought was excellent off the bench. Matt Jones playing so smart..such great defense..

& Tatum.. Wow. He gave us separation & then we hit the free throws down the stretch..I think we missed one after they were fouling us on purpose..Jackson I love how he sat that long but comes off the bench & hits his free throws..

Great team win.. Sleep well DBR world.

GO DUKE

Devilwin
02-15-2017, 11:21 PM
Great win, considering how poorly Grayson and Luke played. UVA makes you look bad, they are a good, dangerous squad. Tatum was just ridiculously good tonight, Giles is improving. Time for the downhill run, tied for second..:cool:

DukieInBrasil
02-15-2017, 11:23 PM
what a satisfying win! Not that it was fun to watch, but it was great to see us just absorb their beat you up approach and just rip their hearts out oh, so, slow, ly.

wilson
02-15-2017, 11:23 PM
We scored 44 points on 30 possessions, including the shot clock violation at the end. Before the intentional fouling, it was 33 points on 23 possessions. Both of those are really good.Can't spork, but thanks for confirming my hunch.
Where do you get advanced stats so soon after the game?

LasVegas
02-15-2017, 11:27 PM
I wonder if we will make the tournament.

Dukehky
02-15-2017, 11:27 PM
Really don't understand the Grayson over Frank in the second half when it was clear that GA was really laboring. I thought Frank was really good in all of his minutes. GA was off and was really struggling to move.

I thought Giles had his best game of the year. Real flashes of what he could be. I liked Bolden's minutes too. I understand playing Jefferson in the second half when you're protecting a lead on the road. Last thing you want to do is have miscommunication and give up an easy bucket.

I have seen some other boards saying that we can't count on is a Tatum 6-7 performance from deep. I would just counter that it's extremely unlikely that Grayson and Luke are going to be grabbed and pulled the entire game and hit only 1 three.

Thought that was a great team effort all around. I thought Matt was GREAT. When he's just asked to do the things he's capable of (spot up for 3's and work his butt off on the other team's best perimeter player as long as they aren't a blazing fast point guard), he is sooooo valuable.

Great win.

devildeac
02-15-2017, 11:28 PM
This is an impressive post from a guy whose team just lost a tough game. Thanks for being gracious.

As I said in one of my posts yesterday or today, we've got a number of classy, intelligent, thoughtful, analytical UVa posters visiting here. I agree, a very gracious post.

Eternal Outlaw
02-15-2017, 11:29 PM
The guy guarding Jayson is going to be on the ACC's all defensive team, btw. And could be DPOY.

The shoulder slump and head drop after one of the late threes was reminiscent of Tyus' defender 2 years ago.

Wasn't quite the same as we could have let them back in with free throws but certainly broke them some.

Furniture
02-15-2017, 11:30 PM
2 years ago at UVA a freshman came up big. Tyus then. Jayson tonight.

kAzE
02-15-2017, 11:30 PM
Well, I guess the secret to beating Virginia's D is having a 6'9" dude who can drill 30 footers with a hand in his face. So simple, I have no idea why everyone else having so many problems.

gofurman
02-15-2017, 11:33 PM
The gentlemen played really solid defense with only a few lapses. After getting abused for years (it seems) by the PNR, love that we've started to run it and take advantage of our mobility.

Do not piss off Jayson - he will make you pay.

Harry is starting to look like a player. May he continue to improve.

Rest. Especially Grayson. Get more healthy.

Finish the year out strong.

Y. All these. Great great win!!!! Awesome Needs- health for Grayson. Anyone else notice we sat Grayson in the final minute despite his ft shooting !! Have to get that ankle better. Have to. If we can rest him in any way ..do it ! Matt must be healthy I assume to defend like that ! Man. Amile must be close. Get everyone rest - ESP Grayson ...his offense depends on his explosion factor. And keep working on D. These past two weeks have shown what this team can do if healthy and they figure out D.

Wonderful win.

Go Hoos. Beat UNC.

uh_no
02-15-2017, 11:33 PM
ddmf

Newton_14
02-15-2017, 11:33 PM
Huge win. Just huge. The defense was outstanding for both halves and I really loved the defensive play by Giles and Bolden. Bolden looked very quick and agile out there. Tatum was the Tatum I saw in the two open practices. Just an outstanding game from him on both ends. Loved loved loved his play tonight. We didn't get a ton offensively from Grayson who was obviously hurting and it got worse when he turned that same ankle again, or Luke and Matt, but the guys were really good on defense.

That said... I hate to rain on the parade but it is now an obvious pattern and plan to play Bolden in the first half only unless someone kidnaps Amile and Harry, and to only sub Frank in for Grayson. Even though he played great tonight, if Amile doesn't pick up the quick 4th foul, I don't think Giles sees the floor in the 2nd half. I do not understand it and I do not agree with it, but the GOAT has 1000+ more wins than me. Why we aren't interchanging the 4 of Grayson, Matt, Luke, Frank in the 3 slots (PG/Wing/Wing) the entire game, getting ea of them x amount of rest the entire game, and likewise interchanging the 4 of Amile, Tatum, Harry, Bolden for the 2 spots (PF-Stretch Forward/Center) the entire game, getting ea of them x amount of rest the entire game is just baffling to me. I don't find it necessary for Luke, Matt, and Tatum to play every single second of every single second half of games. We have a tremendous amount of talent. Chase, Vrank, Javin, and Jack would get minutes on a lot of ACC teams imo. Bolden would be a starter on most ACC teams imo.


I hate being Debbie Downer here, as tonight was a huge win and the guys are now playing Top 10 Level basketball, but in my humble opinion, the current formula will not get us an ACC Tournament Championship and will not get us a Regional Championship to make the Final 4. It will get us a lot of wins, probably a top 4 finish in ACC Regular Season, a semi-finals appearance in the ACC Tournament, and a Sweet 16 appearance with collective fatigue ending our run in all 3 of those competitions.

I hope I am very wrong about this. I love this team an the guys on it. Maybe this current formula wins some of those banners, or maybe the formula changes at some point to where all 8 guys play in both halves and have similar minutes as the 8 guys in 2015 had. Or maybe I'm an idiot who is way off base.

To end on a positive note, this team has grown a lot since that NC State debacle an it is great to see. They are playing really really well on the defensive end and getting enough offense to take advantage of it.

On to Wake! Go Duke!!

75Crazie
02-15-2017, 11:34 PM
It wasn't that tough of a loss. We were thoroughly outplayed the entire night.
Certainly not the last 5-6 minutes of the first half ... combination of a tough Hoo's defense and a skittish Duke offense. The halftime adjustments Duke made, plus the iron lid on the UVA basket up until the last 90 seconds, were the keys of the game. While I think Duke played decent defense, that just does not explain the horror show that was UVA shooting. Here's hoping you turn that around in a hurry ... say, within the next 3 days.

dukefan_828
02-15-2017, 11:35 PM
Tatum shaping up to be our best OAD yet, less bone headed isolation fade away jumpers and much improved D + Rebounding!

Little to no drop off when HG comes in for Amile now. he has improved so much on D!! Kid has caught alot of flack but as i was telling someone last week you have to realize basketball really never stops for these elite players as they train pretty much all year round. For Harry to come in w little to no burn for year and half is really impressive, so glad to see it start to come together for him.

The january roller coaster ride is making this that much sweeter. Couldn't wipe the smile off my face during JT's post game interview.. LETS GO DUKE!!

fan345678
02-15-2017, 11:36 PM
Great win. I'd put it alongside carolina as the biggest of the season. The defense was fantastic tonight...kept us in a typical grinder with the 'Hoos. But the offense was also sneaky good in the second half. I'll be interested to see points per possession for the 2nd half...I'd be willing to bet it was quite good.
Obviously, Jayson Tatum was sensational. Good minutes from Giles as well. There's lots to be encouraged about tonight.
I can't deny that there are some shades of 2015 in tonight's performance...

Wilson is always spot on. Charlottesville was the galvanizing point in 2015. Let it be so now.
But alas, poor York, I knew this, Horatio (and said it in the pregame thread).
-80

DukieInBrasil
02-15-2017, 11:38 PM
Huge win. Just huge. The defense was outstanding for both halves and I really loved the defensive play by Giles and Bolden. Bolden looked very quick and agile out there. Tatum was the Tatum I saw in the two open practices. Just an outstanding game from him on both ends. Loved loved loved his play tonight. We didn't get a ton offensively from Grayson who was obviously hurting and it got worse when he turned that same ankle again, or Luke and Matt, but the guys were really good on defense.

That said... I hate to rain on the parade but it is now an obvious pattern and plan to play Bolden in the first half only unless someone kidnaps Amile and Harry, and to only sub Frank in for Grayson. Even though he played great tonight, if Amile doesn't pick up the quick 4th foul, I don't think Giles sees the floor in the 2nd half. I do not understand it and I do not agree with it, but the GOAT has 1000+ more wins than me. Why we aren't interchanging the 4 of Grayson, Matt, Luke, Frank in the 3 slots (PG/Wing/Wing) the entire game, getting ea of them x amount of rest the entire game, and likewise interchanging the 4 of Amile, Tatum, Harry, Bolden for the 2 spots (PF-Stretch Forward/Center) the entire game, getting ea of them x amount of rest the entire game is just baffling to me. I don't find it necessary for Luke, Matt, and Tatum to play every single second of every single second half of games. We have a tremendous amount of talent. Chase, Vrank, Javin, and Jack would get minutes on a lot of ACC teams imo. Bolden would be a starter on most ACC teams imo.


I hate being Debbie Downer here, as tonight was a huge win and the guys are now playing Top 10 Level basketball, but in my humble opinion, the current formula will not get us an ACC Tournament Championship and will not get us a Regional Championship to make the Final 4. It will get us a lot of wins, probably a top 4 finish in ACC Regular Season, a semi-finals appearance in the ACC Tournament, and a Sweet 16 appearance with collective fatigue ending our run in all 3 of those competitions.

I hope I am very wrong about this. I love this team an the guys on it. Maybe this current formula wins some of those banners, or maybe the formula changes at some point to where all 8 guys play in both halves and have similar minutes as the 8 guys in 2015 had. Or maybe I'm an idiot who is way off base.

To end on a positive note, this team has grown a lot since that NC State debacle an it is great to see. They are playing really really well on the defensive end and getting enough offense to take advantage of it.

On to Wake! Go Duke!!

I'd love to see more guys play more minutes, but in this particular game, the pace was so slow that i don't think we were really showing any signs of exhaustion.
Bolden's stuff was amazing, btw. Too bad he got stuffed on a pretty weak move on the other end soon after.

LasVegas
02-15-2017, 11:38 PM
Tatum shaping up to be our best OAD yet, less bone headed isolation fade away jumpers and much improved D + Rebounding!

Little to no drop off when HG comes in for Amile now. he has improved so much on D!! Kid has caught alot of flack but as i was telling someone last week you have to realize basketball really never stops for these elite players as they train pretty much all year round. For Harry to come in w little to no burn for year and half is really impressive, so glad to see it start to come together for him.

The january roller coaster ride is making this that much sweeter. Couldn't wipe the smile off my face during JT's post game interview.. LETS GO DUKE!!

Tatum is great but give me Tyus Stones any day of the week!!!!

pfrduke
02-15-2017, 11:39 PM
Can't spork, but thanks for confirming my hunch.
Where do you get advanced stats so soon after the game?

I just looked at the play by play and counted the number of possessions.

brlftz
02-15-2017, 11:39 PM
I'm at the point where I perk up when Giles comes in. Amile is obviously more than solid, but there are some things Giles can do that no one else on the team can, and we're seeing those moments come more and more frequently.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
02-15-2017, 11:40 PM
Tatum is great but give me Tyus Stones any day of the week!!!!

Season isn't over yet...

LasVegas
02-15-2017, 11:42 PM
Huge win. Just huge. The defense was outstanding for both halves and I really loved the defensive play by Giles and Bolden. Bolden looked very quick and agile out there. Tatum was the Tatum I saw in the two open practices. Just an outstanding game from him on both ends. Loved loved loved his play tonight. We didn't get a ton offensively from Grayson who was obviously hurting and it got worse when he turned that same ankle again, or Luke and Matt, but the guys were really good on defense.

That said... I hate to rain on the parade but it is now an obvious pattern and plan to play Bolden in the first half only unless someone kidnaps Amile and Harry, and to only sub Frank in for Grayson. Even though he played great tonight, if Amile doesn't pick up the quick 4th foul, I don't think Giles sees the floor in the 2nd half. I do not understand it and I do not agree with it, but the GOAT has 1000+ more wins than me. Why we aren't interchanging the 4 of Grayson, Matt, Luke, Frank in the 3 slots (PG/Wing/Wing) the entire game, getting ea of them x amount of rest the entire game, and likewise interchanging the 4 of Amile, Tatum, Harry, Bolden for the 2 spots (PF-Stretch Forward/Center) the entire game, getting ea of them x amount of rest the entire game is just baffling to me. I don't find it necessary for Luke, Matt, and Tatum to play every single second of every single second half of games. We have a tremendous amount of talent. Chase, Vrank, Javin, and Jack would get minutes on a lot of ACC teams imo. Bolden would be a starter on most ACC teams imo.


I hate being Debbie Downer here, as tonight was a huge win and the guys are now playing Top 10 Level basketball, but in my humble opinion, the current formula will not get us an ACC Tournament Championship and will not get us a Regional Championship to make the Final 4. It will get us a lot of wins, probably a top 4 finish in ACC Regular Season, a semi-finals appearance in the ACC Tournament, and a Sweet 16 appearance with collective fatigue ending our run in all 3 of those competitions.

I hope I am very wrong about this. I love this team an the guys on it. Maybe this current formula wins some of those banners, or maybe the formula changes at some point to where all 8 guys play in both halves and have similar minutes as the 8 guys in 2015 had. Or maybe I'm an idiot who is way off base.

To end on a positive note, this team has grown a lot since that NC State debacle an it is great to see. They are playing really really well on the defensive end and getting enough offense to take advantage of it.

On to Wake! Go Duke!!

I'm with you. I think we need two of Giles/Bolden/Jackson to really make a run here. The only way to get better is to get some burn. Time may be running out. Blame the injury gods, I guess.

weezie
02-15-2017, 11:43 PM
Lucky to sit behind Duke bench tonight. Whoa Nelly! The TATUM was breathtaking. Matt in yet another lock down defensive star turn.
Poor dopey hoos spent more time booing Grayson than cheering their own team. Very quiet in the jpj.
Our guys were super amped and happy after the win. Cruising up Rt 29!

SCOREBOARD!

Utley
02-15-2017, 11:45 PM
Couldn't be happier with the W.

You can't help but love our veterans - but I always thought this team needed the freshman to look like NBA players - to be clearly better than anyone else out on the court - to reach elite status and it's starting to happen.

Huge kudos to the coaching staff - their ability to progress this team couldn't be more impressive.

Does Matt seem a step or two quicker all of sudden over the last couple of weeks? I remember times this year - and last - where he seemed old and slow (relatively obviously). He now he seems to be the first guy to every lose ball and to have taken his D a notch higher. It's great to see - hes such an important cog.

It makes me so happy for Harry to see him play like this. I love that he's doing it but even happier for him.

tbyers11
02-15-2017, 11:45 PM
Can't spork, but thanks for confirming my hunch.
Where do you get advanced stats so soon after the game?

SCACChoops.com provides real time efficiency stats amongst other things on their boxscores. Including 1st and 2nd half splits. Their boxscores are sometimes off a possession or 2 from KenPom but it is pretty close

Here is the boxscore (http://www.scacchoops.com/viewhdgame.asp?hSchedule=39257&half=2) for tonight's game

A note about how good we were on offense in the 2nd half. Until the shot clock violation at the end of the game we only had 2 turnovers in the 2nd half. That's impressive.

kAzE
02-15-2017, 11:46 PM
That said... I hate to rain on the parade but it is now an obvious pattern and plan to play Bolden in the first half only unless someone kidnaps Amile and Harry, and to only sub Frank in for Grayson. Even though he played great tonight, if Amile doesn't pick up the quick 4th foul, I don't think Giles sees the floor in the 2nd half. I do not understand it and I do not agree with it, but the GOAT has 1000+ more wins than me. Why we aren't interchanging the 4 of Grayson, Matt, Luke, Frank in the 3 slots (PG/Wing/Wing) the entire game, getting ea of them x amount of rest the entire game, and likewise interchanging the 4 of Amile, Tatum, Harry, Bolden for the 2 spots (PF-Stretch Forward/Center) the entire game, getting ea of them x amount of rest the entire game is just baffling to me. I don't find it necessary for Luke, Matt, and Tatum to play every single second of every single second half of games. We have a tremendous amount of talent. Chase, Vrank, Javin, and Jack would get minutes on a lot of ACC teams imo. Bolden would be a starter on most ACC teams imo.

I think this is very fair. Marques and Harry did play exceptionally well tonight. Also, Doug Collins was reading my mind when he kept talking about getting them the ball. Marques had a golden opportunity after his big block, getting deep position on one of UVA's guards in the post, and we did not feed him the wide open pass from the wing. I also thought a couple of times on a screen and roll, either Grayson and Luke had the angle to get Harry wide open on the roll, but did not even look his way. It is definitely a little bit baffling why they didn't get a few more opportunities to play. I trust Coach K, and I think he's too smart to not know what he has in those 2. I think they have to start getting more minutes in the games to come. Be patient, guys.

I thought This was kind of a bad performance from Grayson and Luke in that regard. They did not do as good a job as usual distributing the ball, although UVA's D gets some credit for that. We had 8 assists on the night, and pretty much relied on 1 on 1 offense down the stretch to carry us. Jayson put us on his back, on offense AND defense.

Grayson looks like a shell of himself. He was mostly terrible after the first ankle twist (which looked as if absolutely like he broke his ankle on TV) other than a couple of catch and shoot 3s in the Clemson game too. That ankle is not right. I kind of want him to take a game off and get that ankle to 100%. The Wake game is a 3 day turnaround, whereas the Syracuse game gives him a week. He's too damn valuable to mess around with.

LasVegas
02-15-2017, 11:46 PM
Season isn't over yet...

If Tatum surpasses Jones as my TOP OAD, I'll be very happy to be wrong! Like, cry so hard from joy you pass out and wake up in a wrecked hotel room missing a tooth with a tiger in the bathroom happy.

gofurman
02-15-2017, 11:46 PM
I wonder if we will make the tournament.

Sure. Now the question is what seed and how well will be playing. You are misunderstanding the original post. It was 'how many wins does it take for us to make the tournament?' (And ask UConn, the tourney isn't a birthright ..we shouldn't act entitled ).

Sports Teams are like Corporate teams - goal 1. Win ACC regular season. Goal 2. Win ACC tourney. 3. Make NCAA tourney. Goal 4. Get a top 3 seed. Goal 5. Get to Sweet 16. Goal 6. FF. etc etc.

when I posted "how many wins to make the tourney ?" I was posting what I start every year thinking. Every year. 20-wins. 19 wins... Will that make tourney? I was NOT saying we wouldn't make the tourney. Though that was a possibility - if anyone doubts that statement they must not have seen our coach and 8 players get injured and Allen tripping etc. anything can happen. Anything.

Anyway, Most coaches have a board listing team goals that stays at the front - prominently - all year for everyone to see constantly. I feel certain making the NCAA is one of Dukes goals, no? I bet that's up there on the 'goal board' w winning acc reg season and winning act tourney etc.

camion
02-15-2017, 11:46 PM
I'm at the point where I perk up when Giles comes in. Amile is obviously more than solid, but there are some things Giles can do that no one else on the team can, and we're seeing those moments come more and more frequently.

The freshmen are looking better each week. Since they're a couple of months behind in their development due to their various injuries lets hope they're also a couple of months late and don't hit the freshman wall until about June. :)

Furniture
02-15-2017, 11:47 PM
Lucky to sit behind Duke bench tonight. Whoa Nelly! The TATUM was breathtaking. Matt in yet another lock down defensive star turn.
Poor dopey hoos spent more time booing Grayson than cheering their own team. Very quiet in the jpj.
Our guys were super amped and happy after the win. Cruising up Rt 29!

SCOREBOARD!

I agree. Matt was fantastic.

uh_no
02-15-2017, 11:48 PM
I just looked at the play by play and counted the number of possessions.

your numbers are slightly off, though, or perhaps you are not using the standard possession cout?

we had
42-5+11+.475*20 = 57.5 posessions on the game. discounting the garbage time, it was only 8 FT, so 51.8 possessions (and 54 points)

this gives us a 113 for the game, or a 104 before garbage time. both of these are incredible numbers. adjusted for UVA, this gives us a 145 or a 122....effectively best in the country.....KP expected us to do 1ppp.

KP results are up, our offense bumped up to #9 and our defense bumped 5 spots to 25. we also jumped up to #12.

Utley
02-15-2017, 11:49 PM
Y. All these. Great great win!!!! Awesome Needs- health for Grayson. Anyone else notice we sat Grayson in the final minute despite his ft shooting !! Have to get that ankle better. Have to. If we can rest him in any way ..do it ! Matt must be healthy I assume to defend like that ! Man. Amile must be close. Get everyone rest - ESP Grayson ...his offense depends on his explosion factor. And keep working on D. These past two weeks have shown what this team can do if healthy and they figure out D.

Wonderful win.

Go Hoos. Beat UNC.

I thought K sat Grayson for making a boneheaded foul that give the Hoos a 3 point play.

LasVegas
02-15-2017, 11:49 PM
Sure. Now the question is what seed and how well will be playing. You are misunderstanding the original post. It was 'how many wins does it take for us to make the tournament?' (And ask UConn, the tourney isn't a birthright ..we shouldn't act entitled ).

Sports Teams are like Corporate teams - goal 1. Win ACC regular season. Goal 2. Win ACC tourney. 3. Make NCAA tourney. Goal 4. Get a top 3 seed. Goal 5. Get to Sweet 16. Goal 6. FF. etc etc.

when I posted "how many wins to make the tourney ?" I was posting what I start every year thinking. Every year. 20-wins. 19 wins... Will that make tourney? I was NOT saying we wouldn't make the tourney. Most coaches have a board listing team goals that stays at the front - prominently - all year for everyone to see constantly. I feel certain making the NCAA is one of Dukes goals, no? I bet that's up there on the 'goal board' w winning acc reg season and winning act tourney etc.

My post wasn't directed at that, more so at the people who act like the sky is falling after a couple losses. Loonnggggg season to get the needed wins.

Furniture
02-15-2017, 11:49 PM
I'm with you. I think we need two of Giles/Bolden/Jackson to really make a run here. The only way to get better is to get some burn. Time may be running out. Blame the injury gods, I guess.

K is a master. He is building these guys up and by tourney time they may just explode.

gofurman
02-15-2017, 11:53 PM
My post wasn't directed at that, more so at the people who act like the sky is falling after a couple losses. Loonnggggg season to get the needed wins.

Ok. Fair enough.

Monmouth77
02-15-2017, 11:54 PM
My play of the game was Harry Giles diving on the floor for a loose ball on defense in the second half, both because it showed off Harry's confidence in his body (huge for his recovery and development) and because it showed freshman buy in on hard nosed, scrappy, body sacrificing Duke D.

If this team with this talent turns into a bunch of animals on defense, the sky is the limit.

weezie
02-15-2017, 11:54 PM
I thought K sat Grayson for making a boneheaded foul that give the Hoos a 3 point play.

No def the ankle. He was hampered

DukieInBrasil
02-15-2017, 11:55 PM
I'm with you. I think we need two of Giles/Bolden/Jackson to really make a run here. The only way to get better is to get some burn. Time may be running out. Blame the injury gods, I guess.

Jackson's been playing well all year and is very much a rotation player. Giles has been a solid role player up to now, and yes, if he were playing at a slightly higher level that would be good for Duke. But i don't think we need for either of them to be dramatically different (improved, yes, but not dramatically so) players than they are now for us to be successful, and by successful i mean win a championship (or 2, or 3) ;-)

rocketeli
02-15-2017, 11:56 PM
Nice defense tonight. Since I'm a known Matt-hater, I gotta say, he had a great game tonight-solid on D, steadying influence, being opportunistic at the right places and times--when he can do this he's an asset. UVA showed how this Duke team, if it continues to develop, will be tough to beat--they concentrated on shutting down Kennard and Allen, and Tatum made them pay. There will be few, if any teams, that will be able to shut down all three. Giles didn't seem to be moving better so much as learning new ways to move so as to minimize the impact of his knee problems, but hey, whatever works.

TNTDevil
02-15-2017, 11:56 PM
Lucky to sit behind Duke bench tonight. Whoa Nelly! The TATUM was breathtaking. Matt in yet another lock down defensive star turn.
Poor dopey hoos spent more time booing Grayson than cheering their own team. Very quiet in the jpj.
Our guys were super amped and happy after the win. Cruising up Rt 29!

SCOREBOARD!The silence was noticeable on the teevee broadcast. It was so quiet, I could hear Amile shouting out defensive instructions.

Great win tonight. Any ACC Road win is a big win.

DukieInBrasil
02-15-2017, 11:58 PM
I'm with you. I think we need two of Giles/Bolden/Jackson to really make a run here. The only way to get better is to get some burn. Time may be running out. Blame the injury gods, I guess.

Jackson's been playing well all year and is very much a rotation player. Giles has been a solid role player up to now, and yes, if he were playing at a slightly higher level that would be good for Duke. But i don't think we need for either of them to be dramatically different (improved, yes, but not dramatically so) players than they are now for us to be successful, and by successful i mean win a championship (or 2, or 3) ;-)

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
02-15-2017, 11:59 PM
Ok. Fair enough.

This is how I read it too. There were many posters wondering if this team had the chops to make the dance. It is lovely for all of us to see those concerns obliterated by a team coming into their own.

weezie
02-16-2017, 12:00 AM
I sure would love to see more of those sweet Giles hook shots.

Kedsy
02-16-2017, 12:02 AM
Why we aren't interchanging the 4 of Grayson, Matt, Luke, Frank in the 3 slots (PG/Wing/Wing) the entire game, getting ea of them x amount of rest the entire game, and likewise interchanging the 4 of Amile, Tatum, Harry, Bolden for the 2 spots (PF-Stretch Forward/Center) the entire game, getting ea of them x amount of rest the entire game is just baffling to me.

Without being disrespectful, the obvious answer is the players you suggest we should be interchanging simply aren't interchangeable. I like what Frank brings, but at this stage in his career, he isn't interchangeable with any of the other three. And Harry's getting closer, but neither he nor Marques are interchangeable for Amile or Jayson. They're just not.

That said, I kinda wish the 6, 7, and 8 guys in our rotation got more burn, too. Especially since Grayson and Amile (and possibly, to a lesser extent, Matt and Luke) are all banged up right now. But I understand why Coach K is doing what he's doing, because if you look at both sides of the ball there is a fairly large dropoff between our starting five and our bench guys.


The only way to get better is to get some burn.

I don't necessarily agree with this and, more importantly, Coach K doesn't appear to agree with it, either. This comes up every year when posters state unequivocally that game minutes are essential for development, but the number of counter-examples is so large over the years that it can't possibly be true, at least not universally.

camion
02-16-2017, 12:02 AM
Great game.

But it's midnight. Would you guys please stop posting so I can get some sleep? :eek:

JBDuke
02-16-2017, 12:09 AM
I'm excited about the improvement we're seeing in Harry's play. He came in with such amazing potential, but saddled with injuries and recoveries and a looooong layoff, it was hard to know what we'd get from him this year. His first few outings were rough, but we've been seeing glimpses of that potential more and more often. If he keeps improving at this rate, he's gonna drop 20 and 10 on somebody while still in a Duke uniform. Wouldn't that be cool?

He had one rebound tonight where he was feet above everyone else going for the ball. The kid has some amazing ability.

(And we're seeing some of the same from Bolden. He had another nice block tonight, and is moving well.)

jipops
02-16-2017, 12:10 AM
Huge win. Just huge. The defense was outstanding for both halves and I really loved the defensive play by Giles and Bolden. Bolden looked very quick and agile out there. Tatum was the Tatum I saw in the two open practices. Just an outstanding game from him on both ends. Loved loved loved his play tonight. We didn't get a ton offensively from Grayson who was obviously hurting and it got worse when he turned that same ankle again, or Luke and Matt, but the guys were really good on defense.

That said... I hate to rain on the parade but it is now an obvious pattern and plan to play Bolden in the first half only unless someone kidnaps Amile and Harry, and to only sub Frank in for Grayson. Even though he played great tonight, if Amile doesn't pick up the quick 4th foul, I don't think Giles sees the floor in the 2nd half. I do not understand it and I do not agree with it, but the GOAT has 1000+ more wins than me. Why we aren't interchanging the 4 of Grayson, Matt, Luke, Frank in the 3 slots (PG/Wing/Wing) the entire game, getting ea of them x amount of rest the entire game, and likewise interchanging the 4 of Amile, Tatum, Harry, Bolden for the 2 spots (PF-Stretch Forward/Center) the entire game, getting ea of them x amount of rest the entire game is just baffling to me. I don't find it necessary for Luke, Matt, and Tatum to play every single second of every single second half of games. We have a tremendous amount of talent. Chase, Vrank, Javin, and Jack would get minutes on a lot of ACC teams imo. Bolden would be a starter on most ACC teams imo.


I hate being Debbie Downer here, as tonight was a huge win and the guys are now playing Top 10 Level basketball, but in my humble opinion, the current formula will not get us an ACC Tournament Championship and will not get us a Regional Championship to make the Final 4. It will get us a lot of wins, probably a top 4 finish in ACC Regular Season, a semi-finals appearance in the ACC Tournament, and a Sweet 16 appearance with collective fatigue ending our run in all 3 of those competitions.

I hope I am very wrong about this. I love this team an the guys on it. Maybe this current formula wins some of those banners, or maybe the formula changes at some point to where all 8 guys play in both halves and have similar minutes as the 8 guys in 2015 had. Or maybe I'm an idiot who is way off base.

To end on a positive note, this team has grown a lot since that NC State debacle an it is great to see. They are playing really really well on the defensive end and getting enough offense to take advantage of it.

On to Wake! Go Duke!!

I'm with you on this. On the plus side Harry did get more touches. Though Bolden continues to be ignored. I do feel like we're letting something waste away here. Still, have to be happy about both improving on D. Maybe that is what K is looking for first.

Great win nonetheless.

LasVegas
02-16-2017, 12:14 AM
I don't necessarily agree with this and, more importantly, Coach K doesn't appear to agree with it, either. This comes up every year when posters state unequivocally that game minutes are essential for development, but the number of counter-examples is so large over the years that it can't possibly be true, at least not universally.

Yeah, people can be on either side of the fence with this and have an arguement. I just think when talking about college freshman, they greatly benefit from in game action. Especially when talking short term here.

jacone21
02-16-2017, 12:15 AM
If Tatum surpasses Jones as my TOP OAD, I'll be very happy to be wrong! Like, cry so hard from joy you pass out and wake up in a wrecked hotel room missing a tooth with a tiger in the bathroom happy.

Yep. Definitely Las Vegas!

TNTDevil
02-16-2017, 12:18 AM
I'm with you on this. On the plus side Harry did get more touches. Though Bolden continues to be ignored. I do feel like we're letting something waste away here. Still, have to be happy about both improving on D. Maybe that is what K is looking for first.

Great win nonetheless.This is spot-on. Bolden got a nice block, ran the floor and never got rewarded. I realize you gotta work your way up to touches but, he deserved one on that play.

MrPoon
02-16-2017, 12:19 AM
Couple of simple thoughts because its late but a game that didn't feel in jeopardy for the second half against a good ACC team on the road should not be undervalued. Jefferson out with fouls, GA gimpy, Luke bleeding and missing shots. And Duke felt like the dominant team right from the start of the second half. Great coaching adjustment.

Giles and some Bolden still catch my eye. Both clearly being brought along slowly. But the baby steps are moving in the right direction. And what we are starting to see between the UNC game and tonight, is a team that can play and win a lot of styles. Big interior presence? Giles and Bolden won't dominate but can give us the size and athleticism that we didn't have a year ago to spell and help Jefferson.

Offensively the options are just amazing. Tonight Tatum, but GA was all over UNC, Luke won the Clemson game. We don't need 16 paint points. But we can defend teams that play that style.

I still worry about the D. There seemed to be flashes that looked good. But I've watch several halves of Virginia basketball and that isn't a good offensive team. At all. Perrantes is the only story and our focus on him did create some easy shots and I saw a few rebounds lost because of help D on him. But Luke struggled against the drive much of the first half and we still lost guys on screens (and oh how many screens were set... some legal).

But arguably the second best win of the year.

Sixthman
02-16-2017, 12:23 AM
I'd love to see more guys play more minutes, but in this particular game, the pace was so slow that i don't think we were really showing any signs of exhaustion.
Bolden's stuff was amazing, btw. Too bad he got stuffed on a pretty weak move on the other end soon after.

K said in postgame that Giles tank was empty after playing his largest number of minutes for season.

El_Diablo
02-16-2017, 12:23 AM
Acceptable.

pfrduke
02-16-2017, 12:32 AM
your numbers are slightly off, though, or perhaps you are not using the standard possession cout?

we had
42-5+11+.475*20 = 57.5 posessions on the game. discounting the garbage time, it was only 8 FT, so 51.8 possessions (and 54 points)

this gives us a 113 for the game, or a 104 before garbage time. both of these are incredible numbers. adjusted for UVA, this gives us a 145 or a 122...effectively best in the country....KP expected us to do 1ppp.

KP results are up, our offense bumped up to #9 and our defense bumped 5 spots to 25. we also jumped up to #12.

Those are estimates. They're a proxy for the inability of the box score to perfectly capture the play-by-play. Looking at the play-by-play and counting, we had 30 second half possessions. That's the actual number.

revmel53
02-16-2017, 12:34 AM
Just got in. Great to read about the game that just finished. Another great one to watch! We are building momentum. Hope we continue while the infirm get better/stronger. Go Devils!

Kedsy
02-16-2017, 12:36 AM
K said in postgame that Giles tank was empty after playing his largest number of minutes for season.

He may have said that, but it isn't entirely true. Harry played 19 minutes tonight, but he played 24 minutes against BC (and 19 against Louisville). That said, Harry's tank may have been empty; K would know that a lot better than we would.

Also, for those clamoring that Harry get more minutes, 19 could be considered a lot for a guy at his stage in recovery. He's coming along fine.


I still worry about the D. There seemed to be flashes that looked good. But I've watch several halves of Virginia basketball and that isn't a good offensive team. At all.

Not saying you shouldn't worry, but the stats belie your observation about Virginia. I agree they have offensive limitations, but on a per-possession basis, Pomeroy ranks UVa 20th in the country, after their game against us. Their adjusted points-per-possession is 1.173 (again, after our game), but we held them to 0.957 points per possession, which is really good compared to what they've done against everyone else.

We were even better on offense, putting up 1.130 points-per-possession against a defense that (adjusted) only gives up 0.882 ppp (again, after tonight).

tbyers11
02-16-2017, 12:38 AM
I still worry about the D. There seemed to be flashes that looked good. But I've watch several halves of Virginia basketball and that isn't a good offensive team. At all. Perrantes is the only story and our focus on him did create some easy shots and I saw a few rebounds lost because of help D on him. But Luke struggled against the drive much of the first half and we still lost guys on screens (and oh how many screens were set... some legal).

But arguably the second best win of the year.

I think our D was very good the entire night. Close out a few more trips with defensive rebounds the first time it would be outstanding.

Virginia is not an aesthetically pleasing offensive team, but even after tonight's 0.954 PPP (third worst game of the season) they still have the 20th best offensive efficiency in the country at 1.17 PPP. In ACC games, they are at 1.08 PPP. Definitely a reduction, but 8th overall in the ACC and better than Clemson, Pitt, and NC State who put up some big numbers on us in stretches of those games.

Agree that the defense is not all the way there yet, but it is definitely trending up. I think that holding UVA to 55 tonight in a raucous road arena (at least early:D) with our offense sputtering for stretches was more about how good our D was than how bad the Cavs offense was.

duke4ever19
02-16-2017, 12:44 AM
That light pressure Coach K ran during the game was a great idea.

It helped keep Virginia from setting up the offense early and prevented the long passing/screening chains that get so many of UVA's opponents out of position.

SlapTheFloor
02-16-2017, 12:58 AM
Amile was held to 21 minutes because of foul trouble. Grayson rolled his ankle and went 2-10 from the floor for five points. And Kennard goes 3-9. And still we win by double figures.

brlftz
02-16-2017, 01:08 AM
Amile was held to 21 minutes because of foul trouble. Grayson rolled his ankle and went 2-10 from the floor for five points. And Kennard goes 3-9. And still we win by double figures.

Seriously. I'm absolutely delighted by this win. What's most revealing to me is that at no point watching that game did I doubt that we were the better team. There were plenty of other moments this year where I did, but it's been a while since I felt that way. We are really coming together.

cptnflash
02-16-2017, 01:14 AM
3 thoughts following our best win of the season:

1) We still have a shot to win the ACC regular season title, which would be a remarkable achievement considering where we were 3 weeks ago. There is magic in Duke basketball, and its source is Mike Krzyzewski. (P.S. I know some of you don't believe that "regular season title" is a thing. For those in that camp, please explain to me why Coach K says that it's only appropriate to storm the court at home when we win a championship. What other championship could we possibly win on our home court?)

2) Let's not get too excited about Jayson Tatum. I love that kid. Massive talent and obviously a great human being. But the main difference tonight is that a bunch of low percentage shots (i.e., off-the-dribble contested 3s) went in. He's not Steph Curry so what we saw down the stretch tonight is not consistently repeatable.

3) Kedsy's copy/paste/disagree game is as strong as ever. Some skills don't atrophy with age.

Troublemaker
02-16-2017, 01:15 AM
Duke Basketball ‏@DukeMBB (https://twitter.com/DukeMBB) 1h1 hour ago (https://twitter.com/DukeMBB/status/832094538311335937)

ACC wins at UVA over last 3 seasons
Duke: 2
Rest of ACC: 1

cato
02-16-2017, 01:17 AM
Huge win. Just huge. The defense was outstanding for both halves and I really loved the defensive play by Giles and Bolden. Bolden looked very quick and agile out there. Tatum was the Tatum I saw in the two open practices. Just an outstanding game from him on both ends. Loved loved loved his play tonight. We didn't get a ton offensively from Grayson who was obviously hurting and it got worse when he turned that same ankle again, or Luke and Matt, but the guys were really good on defense.

That said... I hate to rain on the parade but it is now an obvious pattern and plan to play Bolden in the first half only unless someone kidnaps Amile and Harry, and to only sub Frank in for Grayson. Even though he played great tonight, if Amile doesn't pick up the quick 4th foul, I don't think Giles sees the floor in the 2nd half. I do not understand it and I do not agree with it, but the GOAT has 1000+ more wins than me. Why we aren't interchanging the 4 of Grayson, Matt, Luke, Frank in the 3 slots (PG/Wing/Wing) the entire game, getting ea of them x amount of rest the entire game, and likewise interchanging the 4 of Amile, Tatum, Harry, Bolden for the 2 spots (PF-Stretch Forward/Center) the entire game, getting ea of them x amount of rest the entire game is just baffling to me. I don't find it necessary for Luke, Matt, and Tatum to play every single second of every single second half of games. We have a tremendous amount of talent. Chase, Vrank, Javin, and Jack would get minutes on a lot of ACC teams imo. Bolden would be a starter on most ACC teams imo.


I hate being Debbie Downer here, as tonight was a huge win and the guys are now playing Top 10 Level basketball, but in my humble opinion, the current formula will not get us an ACC Tournament Championship and will not get us a Regional Championship to make the Final 4. It will get us a lot of wins, probably a top 4 finish in ACC Regular Season, a semi-finals appearance in the ACC Tournament, and a Sweet 16 appearance with collective fatigue ending our run in all 3 of those competitions.

I hope I am very wrong about this. I love this team an the guys on it. Maybe this current formula wins some of those banners, or maybe the formula changes at some point to where all 8 guys play in both halves and have similar minutes as the 8 guys in 2015 had. Or maybe I'm an idiot who is way off base.

To end on a positive note, this team has grown a lot since that NC State debacle an it is great to see. They are playing really really well on the defensive end and getting enough offense to take advantage of it.

On to Wake! Go Duke!!

I learned to stop worrying and love the short bench (and stall ball) in 2010. There is no rule that says these guys will run out of steam. Could they? Yes. But they could also find the defensive chemistry that Duke needs to cut down some nets.

There is no longer any doubt about the best lineup. Let them get their reps in!

cato
02-16-2017, 01:23 AM
Yeah, people can be on either side of the fence with this and have an arguement. I just think when talking about college freshman, they greatly benefit from in game action. Especially when talking short term here.

Well, sure. People tapping away at their devices can have lots of opinions about this. But the Duke coaching staff pretty clearly has one opinion.

subzero02
02-16-2017, 05:13 AM
Couple of simple thoughts because its late but a game that didn't feel in jeopardy for the second half against a good ACC team on the road should not be undervalued. Jefferson out with fouls, GA gimpy, Luke bleeding and missing shots. And Duke felt like the dominant team right from the start of the second half. Great coaching adjustment.

Giles and some Bolden still catch my eye. Both clearly being brought along slowly. But the baby steps are moving in the right direction. And what we are starting to see between the UNC game and tonight, is a team that can play and win a lot of styles. Big interior presence? Giles and Bolden won't dominate but can give us the size and athleticism that we didn't have a year ago to spell and help Jefferson.

Offensively the options are just amazing. Tonight Tatum, but GA was all over UNC, Luke won the Clemson game. We don't need 16 paint points. But we can defend teams that play that style.

I still worry about the D. There seemed to be flashes that looked good. But I've watch several halves of Virginia basketball and that isn't a good offensive team. At all. Perrantes is the only story and our focus on him did create some easy shots and I saw a few rebounds lost because of help D on him. But Luke struggled against the drive much of the first half and we still lost guys on screens (and oh how many screens were set... some legal).

But arguably the second best win of the year.

This is the best win of the season. Tatum took a giant leap on the offensive end but it only happened because we knew he was hot and made a consistent effort to find him on the perimeter. That's important in how our offensive flow will develop... the 3 headed monster has worked before. Also, Giles will breakthrough before the ACC tournament if he stays healthy.

NashvilleDevil
02-16-2017, 06:02 AM
3 thoughts following our best win of the season:

1) We still have a shot to win the ACC regular season title, which would be a remarkable achievement considering where we were 3 weeks ago. There is magic in Duke basketball, and its source is Mike Krzyzewski. (P.S. I know some of you don't believe that "regular season title" is a thing. For those in that camp, please explain to me why Coach K says that it's only appropriate to storm the court at home when we win a championship. What other championship could we possibly win on our home court?)

2) Let's not get too excited about Jayson Tatum. I love that kid. Massive talent and obviously a great human being. But the main difference tonight is that a bunch of low percentage shots (i.e., off-the-dribble contested 3s) went in. He's not Steph Curry so what we saw down the stretch tonight is not consistently repeatable.

3) Kedsy's copy/paste/disagree game is as strong as ever. Some skills don't atrophy with age.

I am going to get excited about Tatum because I think his points came within the offensive flow. He didn't force those daggers he was being fed by the team and he stepped up big time.

dukelifer
02-16-2017, 06:50 AM
This is the best win of the season. Tatum took a giant leap on the offensive end but it only happened because we knew he was hot and made a consistent effort to find him on the perimeter. That's important in how our offensive flow will develop... the 3 headed monster has worked before. Also, Giles will breakthrough before the ACC tournament if he stays healthy.

This was an excellent win and Tatum was great. The D is getting better. Duke has a great luxury that multiple guys that can take over. The lack of inside scoring is still a concern. Amile was looking more aggressive before all the foul trouble so he might regain his early season form. This team is built for K's stall ball. With Jackson, 4 excellent free throw shooters that can all drive. Key to winning in the tourney- keep it close and make free throws in winning time. Another nice step forward.

devildeac
02-16-2017, 07:12 AM
Duke Basketball ‏@DukeMBB (https://twitter.com/DukeMBB) 1h1 hour ago (https://twitter.com/DukeMBB/status/832094538311335937)

ACC wins at UVA over last 3 seasons
Duke: 2
Rest of ACC: 1


Our House?

;)

Saratoga2
02-16-2017, 07:13 AM
Great win, considering how poorly Grayson and Luke played. UVA makes you look bad, they are a good, dangerous squad. Tatum was just ridiculously good tonight, Giles is improving. Time for the downhill run, tied for second..:cool:

Honestly, I don't think Luke played poorly. He was heavily guarded and was hit on many of his shots but also made some excellent passes and played solid defense. Grayson rolled his ankle again early on so he should get a bye

lifelongdevil
02-16-2017, 07:19 AM
Can anyone offer an explanation of the turnover when Matt was holding the ball at the top of the key in the first half? Announcers seemed to think that it was a 5 second call, but I was under the impression this had been removed from the college rules a couple of years ago/haven't seen one called all year.

weezie
02-16-2017, 07:34 AM
Our House?

;)


Oh maaaaaaaaan, ya should have texted me that!!!!! :cool:

weezie
02-16-2017, 07:36 AM
Can anyone offer an explanation of the turnover when Matt was holding the ball at the top of the key in the first half? Announcers seemed to think that it was a 5 second call, but I was under the impression this had been removed from the college rules a couple of years ago/haven't seen one called all year.

We all agreed five seconds in our sitting area but wasn't the call a moving screen?

Billy Dat
02-16-2017, 07:36 AM
Can anyone offer an explanation of the turnover when Matt was holding the ball at the top of the key in the first half? Announcers seemed to think that it was a 5 second call, but I was under the impression this had been removed from the college rules a couple of years ago/haven't seen one called all year.

That may have been a Karl Ravech blunder. Tangent - what has happened to that guy. He is still relatively young yet feels a few steps slower than he was years ago, does anyone else notice it?

Last night was a mature win. Even when we blew some chances to bust the game open, we kept playing D, cut down our turnovers bigly in the second half, hit our FTs, etc. The only real negative was how many extra possessions they got through offensive rebounds.

OldPhiKap
02-16-2017, 07:39 AM
Just watched Tony Bennett's post-game press conference. Always impressed by his class and tactful frankness.

Good luck to the Hoos in Chapel Hill Saturday!!!!

NYBri
02-16-2017, 07:40 AM
Can anyone offer an explanation of the turnover when Matt was holding the ball at the top of the key in the first half? Announcers seemed to think that it was a 5 second call, but I was under the impression this had been removed from the college rules a couple of years ago/haven't seen one called all year.

I had the sound down and I thought he dragged his pivot foot for a travel.

I believe the 5 second call is toast.

Saratoga2
02-16-2017, 07:40 AM
One thing that was not explicitly mentioned is that UVA exploited the way we ran screens and we picked up 2 fouls on Amile that led to his 4 foul problem. UVA is clever at running into the screener and getting the call. Need to review how we handle that going forward. I looked again at the line on Luke and still disagree that he had anything like a poor game. Coach K kept him in for all 40 minutes. I know he had 16 points 7 rebounds and a number of assists with low turnovers/

hibby91
02-16-2017, 07:40 AM
The 5-second closely guarded call was eliminated if the offensive player is dribbling. Unfortunately, Matt wasn't.

I think that Virginia's defense was making us think a little too much in the first half. I believe Coach K said that he removed some of the organized play calls and just let the players make plays. It worked for us last night.

I believe that the stats shown last night were that many teams have been figuring out UVA defense in the second half of games. I'm not sure why that it, but it makes me happy.:)

Go Duke.

CDu
02-16-2017, 07:42 AM
your numbers are slightly off, though, or perhaps you are not using the standard possession cout?

we had
42-5+11+.475*20 = 57.5 posessions on the game. discounting the garbage time, it was only 8 FT, so 51.8 possessions (and 54 points)

this gives us a 113 for the game, or a 104 before garbage time. both of these are incredible numbers. adjusted for UVA, this gives us a 145 or a 122...effectively best in the country...KP expected us to do 1ppp.

KP results are up, our offense bumped up to #9 and our defense bumped 5 spots to 25. we also jumped up to #12.

No, he or she said he used the play by play. So he or she has the actual number of possessions, not the approximate number that is used by Pomeroy et al.

ETA: nevermind, pfrduke responded later.

CDu
02-16-2017, 07:47 AM
The 5-second closely guarded call was eliminated if the offensive player is dribbling. Unfortunately, Matt wasn't.

I think that Virginia's defense was making us think a little too much in the first half. I believe Coach K said that he removed some of the organized play calls and just let the players make plays. It worked for us last night.

I believe that the stats shown last night were that many teams have been figuring out UVA defense in the second half of games. I'm not sure why that it, but it makes me happy.:)

Go Duke.

Correct. It was a 5-second call, and unfortunately the correct call.

moonpie23
02-16-2017, 08:04 AM
Doug Collins, man of the game...what a relief to hear him...think he really had a moderating effect on Jay

as a person who will never listen to bilas call another game, i'd like to hear you elaborate on what collins said..


thanks

CDu
02-16-2017, 08:08 AM
as a person who will never listen to bilas call another game, i'd like to hear you elaborate on what collins said..


thanks

I think it was just having another voice - especially one with the experience and knowledge Collins had - limited Bilas' opportunities to blather on. And I suspect Bilas was being a bit more deferential too since Collins was a guest.

OldPhiKap
02-16-2017, 08:11 AM
The 5-second closely guarded call was eliminated if the offensive player is dribbling. Unfortunately, Matt wasn't.

I think that Virginia's defense was making us think a little too much in the first half. I believe Coach K said that he removed some of the organized play calls and just let the players make plays. It worked for us last night.

I believe that the stats shown last night were that many teams have been figuring out UVA defense in the second half of games. I'm not sure why that it, but it makes me happy.:)

Go Duke.

Someone in the post-game presser with Bennett noted that Duke was the 19th game where the opponent had a better shooting % in the second half than the first. Bennett attributed it to coming out ready, but not playing great defense for 40 minutes.

FWIW.

-jk
02-16-2017, 08:30 AM
This is spot-on. Bolden got a nice block, ran the floor and never got rewarded. I realize you gotta work your way up to touches but, he deserved one on that play.

UVa's pack-line makes it hard to pass the ball inside with clean looks.

-jk

budwom
02-16-2017, 08:32 AM
3 thoughts following our best win of the season:

1) We still have a shot to win the ACC regular season title, which would be a remarkable achievement considering where we were 3 weeks ago. There is magic in Duke basketball, and its source is Mike Krzyzewski. (P.S. I know some of you don't believe that "regular season title" is a thing. For those in that camp, please explain to me why Coach K says that it's only appropriate to storm the court at home when we win a championship. What other championship could we possibly win on our home court?)

2) Let's not get too excited about Jayson Tatum. I love that kid. Massive talent and obviously a great human being. But the main difference tonight is that a bunch of low percentage shots (i.e., off-the-dribble contested 3s) went in. He's not Steph Curry so what we saw down the stretch tonight is not consistently repeatable.

3) Kedsy's copy/paste/disagree game is as strong as ever. Some skills don't atrophy with age.

On point number two, I don't see how I could disagree more. No, Tatum won't go six for seven from three land very often, BUT, K asked him to shoot more in the second half, Allen was obviously hurting, and
the most important factor is that several of Tatum's shots occurred as the shot clock was running down. Should he have passed instead?
Furthermore, some of us have noticed that when he catches the ball and sets his feet, his shooting improves.....I'd say most of his shots were precisely the kind of shots K would like him to take.

Indoor66
02-16-2017, 08:33 AM
Tatum shaping up to be our best OAD yet, less bone headed isolation fade away jumpers and much improved D + Rebounding!

Little to no drop off when HG comes in for Amile now. he has improved so much on D!! Kid has caught alot of flack but as i was telling someone last week you have to realize basketball really never stops for these elite players as they train pretty much all year round. For Harry to come in w little to no burn for year and half is really impressive, so glad to see it start to come together for him.

The january roller coaster ride is making this that much sweeter. Couldn't wipe the smile off my face during JT's post game interview.. LETS GO DUKE!!

Never get too high or too low. The TEAM is coming around.

Indoor66
02-16-2017, 08:37 AM
Well, sure. People tapping away at their devices can have lots of opinions about this. But the Duke coaching staff pretty clearly has one opinion.

...And it is the only one that counts.,😎

El_Diablo
02-16-2017, 08:54 AM
That may have been a Karl Ravech blunder. Tangent - what has happened to that guy. He is still relatively young yet feels a few steps slower than he was years ago, does anyone else notice it?

He seemed okay for a Baseball Tonight host calling play-by-play for another sport (this is the first year he has done college basketball, I believe, and he only does one game per week).

CrazyNotCrazie
02-16-2017, 09:01 AM
Duke Basketball ‏@DukeMBB (https://twitter.com/DukeMBB) 1h1 hour ago (https://twitter.com/DukeMBB/status/832094538311335937)

ACC wins at UVA over last 3 seasons
Duke: 2
Rest of ACC: 1


Instead of John Paul Jones Arena should it now be the Matt Jones Arena?

Atldukie79
02-16-2017, 09:07 AM
I have generally come down on the side of playing more guys rather than fewer guys for the worthy goals of developing bench. A stronger bench provides flexibility in the future against the threats of fatigue, injury, and off night performances. So why doesn't K?

It is quite clear that K values two things more:
1) Developing his key players
2) Win now

Our starters are very talented and we often speak of upside. While we are on a winning streak, and we see signs of brilliance that are encouraging, we are not consistently performing at a high level. That illustrates the need to develop core players first. For every steal and nice move Giles has made, he is still learning defensive assignments. For every drive and dish our erstwhile point guard(Grayson) makes, he gets trapped on the sideline and makes a weak pass that is picked off.

It is clear that K sees a greater return on minutes invested in his core guys because they still have growth, than in the bench guys.

And, btw, we have a greater chance of winning with the core.

I think K's sub patterns are not mystifying. It is a choice he makes. I have to agree!

sammy3469
02-16-2017, 09:10 AM
I think it was just having another voice - especially one with the experience and knowledge Collins had - limited Bilas' opportunities to blather on. And I suspect Bilas was being a bit more deferential too since Collins was a guest.

Collins was very good at breaking down UVa's offense (use of baseline curls, etc) and how the pack line worked. It was basically an NBA coaches eye in breaking down an NCAA when we're so use to college announcers just hyping the game.

tbyers11
02-16-2017, 09:13 AM
Instead of John Paul Jones Arena should it now be the Matt Jones Arena?

Matt and Tyus Jones Arena

devildeac
02-16-2017, 09:14 AM
Matt and Tyus Jones Arena

I've always had trouble keeping up with the...

FadedTackyShirt
02-16-2017, 09:21 AM
Someone in the post-game presser with Bennett noted that Duke was the 19th game where the opponent had a better shooting % in the second half than the first. Bennett attributed it to coming out ready, but not playing great defense for 40 minutes.

FWIW.

Not a huge advocate of the K family tree (Capel, Collins) succession plan, so have paid attention to Brad Stevens, Bennett, and Shaka.

Celts are playing well, so Stevens may be a pipe dream if he achieves high level NBA success. Shaka may have coached his way out of contention-Texas has too many resources (facilities, $s, recruits) to be getting such mediocre results.

Bennett is a little bit like Bo Ryan in that he recruits to a system and rarely has elite talent depth. Really good regular season results, but doesn't have the horses to get over the hump in March. Especially problematic in the OAD era.

Not all of K's OADs pan out on the defensive end, but that's where experienced glue guys like Amile and Matt fill in the gaps. Not totally dismissing Bennett @ Duke, but his system may not scale up with elite talent.

OldPhiKap
02-16-2017, 09:26 AM
Not all of K's OADs pan out on the defensive end, but that's where experienced glue guys like Amile and Matt fill in the gaps. Not totally dismissing Bennett @ Duke, but his system may not scale up with elite talent.

Agreed.

I do think that when you strip away the senior citizen crowd (K, Boeheim, Pitino, Larranaga, Roy -- probably in that order of quality) Bennett is clearly positioned to be a dominant force in the ACC going forward. And UVa is a great fit for him; I don't see him going anywhere anytime soon.

hibby91
02-16-2017, 09:31 AM
That light pressure Coach K ran during the game was a great idea.

It helped keep Virginia from setting up the offense early and prevented the long passing/screening chains that get so many of UVA's opponents out of position.

I 100% agree with this. Token full court press may have helped keep the game pace slow. However, I donít think that Duke was going to be able to speed them up, regardless of how we played defense. We may as well burn 1/3rd of the clock without having to bump into all of UVAís screens (stationary or otherwise).

UVA had a lot of poor shots late in the shot clock. They may be used to playing that way, but it makes their margin of error very small.

BD80
02-16-2017, 09:35 AM
... That said... I hate to rain on the parade ...

I hate being Debbie Downer here,

... Or maybe I'm an idiot who is way off base.



I'll stick with the GOAT who has 5 rings.


I'm with you. I think we need two of Giles/Bolden/Jackson to really make a run here. The only way to get better is to get some burn. Time may be running out. Blame the injury gods, I guess.

This just boggles my mind.

There is no way a season of working with the best coaching staff in college basketball, at one of the premier basketball facilities in the world, with one of the most advanced strength/conditioning training staffs in the world, practicing against future NBA players would make a player better?

What is funny is that a bench player, particularly a freshman, will have a late-season "breakout" game, coming off the bench due to foul trouble or an injury. This leads to posts saying: "we should have been playing him more all year!" Poppycock. It shows that Coach K's system works, and that the staff IS working hard to make ALL of the players better and tournament ready.


I agree. Matt was fantastic.

Now that the team is playing better team defense, it is easier to appreciate Matt's defensive brilliance. He can more reliably depend on his teammates being where they are supposed to be.

COYS
02-16-2017, 09:56 AM
Now that the team is playing better team defense, it is easier to appreciate Matt's defensive brilliance. He can more reliably depend on his teammates being where they are supposed to be.

He's also fully healthy. Matt is smart, strong, and experienced. But, as we know, he's not particularly quick by NCAA standards. When he's fully healthy, he's just quick enough that the rest of his abilities make him a devastatingly effective player. When he's hurting and loses a step, he's just not quite as effective, especially when the rest of the team is inconsistent on defense. Matt's performance during the final run of his sophomore season was special, even if it was unheralded by the national media. As a senior, I think he's more than ready to repeat or even surpass that level of play now that he's fully healthy.

CDu
02-16-2017, 10:01 AM
Man, what a game! Yes, the game was slow and at times ugly. UVa is very adept at slowing the game down, and they're very good at applying just the right amount of contact on defense to avoid getting called. Mostly off-ball stuff, which tends to get called less than on-ball stuff. But - especially at home - they are allowed to play physical.

In the first half, that physicality really affected us. We tried to run our sets, but UVa held, bumped, and otherwise contacted our cutters in a way that threw us out of rhythm. The result was a measly 21 points and 9 turnovers. We didn't actually have a terrible half shooting the ball, but we wasted a bunch of possessions and thus trailed.

I thought one of the two big keys in the second half were going away from running as many of our sets (which UVa was crushing) and allowing our stars to create. That seemed to really open things up on offense. Well, that and having Tatum just bombing home 3s with reckless abandon. The second big key was on defense, where we stepped up our physicality to match UVa's. We were a very good defensive team in the first half, holding UVa to below 40% from the field. But in the second half, it appeared that Matt Jones and colleagues got the memo: bump, hold, grab off the ball, because the officials aren't calling it. So we did. And amazingly the first 10 minutes of the second half had like 2 or 3 total fouls called.

Ultimately, our defense did a good job of stifling UVa's offense for all but the last 2 minutes of the game. And those last two minutes of UVa offense were the result of Duke's defense just trying to avoid fouls and prevent 3s. Uva has generally been an efficient offense, so to see them look so flustered at home was impressive.

As far as the individuals, obviously Tatum was a monster. He led the team in rebounding, and his second half 3pt barrage put the game out of reach. It's worth noting that aside from Tatum we shot just 3-12 from 3. But Tatum's 6-7 made our overall 3pt line look good. And to top it off, Tatum was a defensive menace too. He was the best player on the floor last night. We have an embarrassment of riches when an All-American and a soon-to-be All-American can struggle and we still win by double-digits against top-20 team on the road.

Along with Tatum, Matt Jones was his usual dominating self defensively. He flummoxed Perrantes all night, making very few mistakes against the All-ACC senior PG. Jones is making his case for ACC DPoY. He is a force, and I know that other coaches are noticing.

The third gold star of the game so to speak goes to Giles. It was a rough night for Jefferson, who committed several silly fouls and spent most of the first half and a good chunk of the second half on the bench with foul trouble. That thrust Giles into the crucible. And Giles stepped up, big time. In the first half, he hit a jump hook in the post, caught a nice zip pass from Allen and finished with a dunk. In the second half, he picked up a couple of steals. And for the most part just looked comfortable on the floor. Great game from Giles, and we needed it. Hopefully he can build off that moving forward. If he can consistently give us 15-20 mpg playing at the level he played last night, we'll be very tough.

Kennard had a rough night on the defensive end (many of UVa's guards' buckets came at his expense), but he did a nice job of attacking in the second half on offense. His overall line looks better thanks to free throws at the end, but I think he played better than his stat line would have suggested too.

Jefferson had a nice start to the game, scoring cleverly against Salt on a few plays. It was seeming like we might get a vintage Jefferson game. Unfortunately, foul trouble put a crimp in his performance.

Tough night for Allen as well. The ankle seemed to limit him in the second half, and he may have still had lingering issues from the ankle injury against Clemson too. Hopefully he gets healthy soon.

I thought Jackson played solidly off the bench. I think we could have benefited from a few more of his minutes to allow Allen and/or Kennard might have been useful. Not a ton more time, but even a brief bit of extra rest might have been helpful in a game in which we had to expend so much energy on defense.

But, thank heaven for Tatum's barrage of threes in the second half. What a huge win!

Ggallagher
02-16-2017, 10:02 AM
I'm with you. I think we need two of Giles/Bolden/Jackson to really make a run here. The only way to get better is to get some burn. Time may be running out. Blame the injury gods, I guess.

I don't know if you meant the only way to get better is to get some burn (in a live game), or not. But Jayson made an interesting comment after one of the recent games that deserves some consideration. He mentioned that the coaches make Matt guard Jayson in practice. So Jayson has to play against an outstanding defender in practice - hopefully making life a little easier for him during a real game.

I'm guessing that's a contributing factor to Jayson's improvement. Keep up the good work Matt!

Steven43
02-16-2017, 10:09 AM
Good game guys! Ugly game to watch as expected but Tatum was sensational tonight. We had no answer for him. As I mentioned in another thread, Duke is a very bad matchup for us and we're a very flawed team. Predicted a 5 point Duke win. I was a little off lol. Good luck the rest of the way.
As a Duke fan I appreciate your comments, thank you.

I've been searching for any information as to why Austin Nichols was dismissed from the basketball team and I can't find much. Do you know what really happened? Is he still a student at UVA? Thanks.

Lunchab1es
02-16-2017, 10:20 AM
This just boggles my mind.

There is no way a season of working with the best coaching staff in college basketball, at one of the premier basketball facilities in the world, with one of the most advanced strength/conditioning training staffs in the world, practicing against future NBA players would make a player better?

What is funny is that a bench player, particularly a freshman, will have a late-season "breakout" game, coming off the bench due to foul trouble or an injury. This leads to posts saying: "we should have been playing him more all year!" Poppycock. It shows that Coach K's system works, and that the staff IS working hard to make ALL of the players better and tournament ready.



I recognize that the gnashing of teeth over bench players getting more PT is an annual tradition, but this year it holds especially little water. To add to what BD80 said, the dozens of practice hours during which Giles is going head to head with veteran Amile Jefferson, during which play can be stopped for "teachable moments" with GOAT Coach K, are going to contribute more to his development than getting an extra 5 minutes of game time. Add in the fact that he still hasn't recovered well enough from a strength and conditioning perspective to compete with ACC caliber opponents for as many minutes as our starters. Getting Bolden a few more trash minutes isn't going to transform him. Their minutes will increase when they are physically able, and mentally capable, not the other way around. Tatum has reach this level but the other freshmen aren't there yet. It's great to get them some burn, and I am excited to see it when I do, but I never expect it during close games except for when we are in foul trouble.

alteran
02-16-2017, 10:21 AM
Does Matt seem a step or two quicker all of sudden over the last couple of weeks? I remember times this year - and last - where he seemed old and slow (relatively obviously). He now he seems to be the first guy to every lose ball and to have taken his D a notch higher. It's great to see - hes such an important cog.


Matt seems to have developed an awesome defensive move when an offensive player gets in the left forward corner with his back to the basket.

If the offensive player shifts from looking over his left shoulder to his right, Matt uses that split second to charge in from the blind side (left) to steal the ball. Works more often than not, and it's really quick.

jhmoss1812
02-16-2017, 10:27 AM
As a Duke fan I appreciate your comments, thank you.

I've been searching for any information as to why Austin Nichols was dismissed from the basketball team and I can't find much. Do you know what really happened? Is he still a student at UVA? Thanks.

From what I hear, he is still a student at UVA. There have been conflicting reports on why he was dismissed from the team but the overall consensus is that it was drug-related. It's definitely frustrating because, from a talent perspective, he fills a huge need as a interior post threat, rebounder, and shot blocker. However, it's possible that we're better off without him - addition by subtraction perhaps. A lot of reports suggested that he did not find joy in playing basketball anymore. That would obviously affect team chemistry. This season is definitely a "what if" type season. Most UVA fans expected a falling off with the loss of 4 seniors but the Nichols suspension has really hurt.

Troublemaker
02-16-2017, 10:35 AM
One thing that was not explicitly mentioned is that UVA exploited the way we ran screens and we picked up 2 fouls on Amile that led to his 4 foul problem. UVA is clever at running into the screener and getting the call. Need to review how we handle that going forward.

I wouldn't be concerned about that. Amile's been performing handoffs for 5 years now, and those weren't the first times defenders ran into him. Coach K said in the postgame presser that Amile committed bad fouls, so I think Amile could've done something to avoid them. Him being a great veteran, he'll have made the correction by the next game.


Not a huge advocate of the K family tree (Capel, Collins) succession plan, so have paid attention to Brad Stevens, Bennett, and Shaka.

Celts are playing well, so Stevens may be a pipe dream if he achieves high level NBA success. Shaka may have coached his way out of contention-Texas has too many resources (facilities, $s, recruits) to be getting such mediocre results.

Bennett is a little bit like Bo Ryan in that he recruits to a system and rarely has elite talent depth. Really good regular season results, but doesn't have the horses to get over the hump in March. Especially problematic in the OAD era.

Not all of K's OADs pan out on the defensive end, but that's where experienced glue guys like Amile and Matt fill in the gaps. Not totally dismissing Bennett @ Duke, but his system may not scale up with elite talent.

I think all 3 are pipe dreams. Stevens, as you mentioned, is having great success in the NBA for a historically great franchise with lots of assets and a smart, aggressive front office.

Bennett isn't going to leave UVA for Duke. He thinks UVA can usurp Duke, especially once Coach K retires.

And Shaka, if he's great, can certainly elevate UT-Austin with their resources into a great program. I wouldn't be too harsh on him. He's had two season so far -- one good, one bad. Let's see what he does from here. I still consider him a great coach as of now.



This just boggles my mind.

There is no way a season of working with the best coaching staff in college basketball, at one of the premier basketball facilities in the world, with one of the most advanced strength/conditioning training staffs in the world, practicing against future NBA players would make a player better?

What is funny is that a bench player, particularly a freshman, will have a late-season "breakout" game, coming off the bench due to foul trouble or an injury. This leads to posts saying: "we should have been playing him more all year!" Poppycock. It shows that Coach K's system works, and that the staff IS working hard to make ALL of the players better and tournament ready.


Great point. It shows they can get better through practice and earn the playing time.

Troublemaker
02-16-2017, 10:41 AM
From what I hear, he is still a student at UVA. There have been conflicting reports on why he was dismissed from the team but the overall consensus is that it was drug-related. It's definitely frustrating because, from a talent perspective, he fills a huge need as a interior post threat, rebounder, and shot blocker. However, it's possible that we're better off without him - addition by subtraction perhaps. A lot of reports suggested that he did not find joy in playing basketball anymore. That would obviously affect team chemistry. This season is definitely a "what if" type season. Most UVA fans expected a falling off with the loss of 4 seniors but the Nichols suspension has really hurt.

I'm hoping Nichols used this year off to get over what is ailing him. From what I understand about Coach Bennett, his values will include forgiveness, and he will not be hardened against giving Nichols his scholly back next season for his remaining year of elibility. I think you guys have a chance to be top-5 next season anyway, but that would seal the deal.

BandAlum83
02-16-2017, 10:41 AM
The 5-second closely guarded call was eliminated if the offensive player is dribbling. Unfortunately, Matt wasn't.

I think that Virginia's defense was making us think a little too much in the first half. I believe Coach K said that he removed some of the organized play calls and just let the players make plays. It worked for us last night.

I believe that the stats shown last night were that many teams have been figuring out UVA defense in the second half of games. I'm not sure why that it, but it makes me happy.:)

Go Duke.

I wonder if UVA's style of play (both O and D) requires extreme levels of mental and physical conditioning that catches up to exhausted players as the second half grinds on.

MrPoon
02-16-2017, 10:43 AM
From what I hear, he is still a student at UVA. There have been conflicting reports on why he was dismissed from the team but the overall consensus is that it was drug-related. It's definitely frustrating because, from a talent perspective, he fills a huge need as a interior post threat, rebounder, and shot blocker. However, it's possible that we're better off without him - addition by subtraction perhaps. A lot of reports suggested that he did not find joy in playing basketball anymore. That would obviously affect team chemistry. This season is definitely a "what if" type season. Most UVA fans expected a falling off with the loss of 4 seniors but the Nichols suspension has really hurt.

And so a lot of respect to Bennett for making the decision. That is how you build programs that last. A LOT of coaches look the other way on a key player on a down year and try to take short cuts. Some schools even do it, some academic departments will even offer classes that don't exist... sorry I digress

Troublemaker
02-16-2017, 10:48 AM
I wonder if UVA's style of play (both O and D) requires extreme levels of mental and physical conditioning that catches up to exhausted players as the second half grinds on.

Not with a 10-man rotation, though.

I think part of it is just that UVA's defense isn't as good as previous seasons, BUT it's still unique enough that it takes the opposing players awhile to get a feel for what UVA is doing and understand what will work and what won't against it.

jhmoss1812
02-16-2017, 10:50 AM
I'm hoping Nichols used this year off to get over what is ailing him. From what I understand about Coach Bennett, his values will include forgiveness, and he will not be hardened against giving Nichols his scholly back next season for his remaining year of elibility. I think you guys have a chance to be top-5 next season anyway, but that would seal the deal.

There's definitely a lot of conversation on our boards about Nichols. A lot of fans just want to forget about him and move on. They want to use his scholarship for a grad transfer big man. A lot of fans are putting the blame for this season solely on him. Others wonder if he could return to the team next year. I personally don't see it happening. But I didn't see him getting kicked off the team either. I am pretty surprised that you think we could be top 5 next year. I don't see it at all unless the juniors (Hall, Shayok, Thompson, Wilkins) all take massive leaps, especially on the offensive side of the ball. I am excited about the two guys we're redshirting in Huff and Hunter though. Perrantes will be a big loss but I like how Jerome has played and think he'll fill in nicely as the next UVA PG. I think we'll continue to be a top 25 team but top 5 is incredibly lofty. I'd love for you to be right but I have my reservations.

Steven43
02-16-2017, 10:55 AM
And so a lot of respect to Bennett for making the decision. That is how you build programs that last. A LOT of coaches look the other way on a key player on a down year and try to take short cuts. Some schools even do it, some academic departments will even offer classes that don't exist... sorry I digress

I don't agree with the perceived presumption that Bennett did some kind of selfless act and/or made a decision deserving of respect by dismissing Nichols from the basketball team. Bennett assessed the situation and decided that his team is better off without Nichols as a part of it. That's it, nothing more. He was looking out for his own self interest and that of his team. And truthfully you cannot separate the two. What is good for the UVA basketball team is good for Bennett.

BandAlum83
02-16-2017, 10:56 AM
I'll stick with the GOAT who has 5 rings.



This just boggles my mind.

There is no way a season of working with the best coaching staff in college basketball, at one of the premier basketball facilities in the world, with one of the most advanced strength/conditioning training staffs in the world, practicing against future NBA players would make a player better?

What is funny is that a bench player, particularly a freshman, will have a late-season "breakout" game, coming off the bench due to foul trouble or an injury. This leads to posts saying: "we should have been playing him more all year!" Poppycock. It shows that Coach K's system works, and that the staff IS working hard to make ALL of the players better and tournament ready.



Now that the team is playing better team defense, it is easier to appreciate Matt's defensive brilliance. He can more reliably depend on his teammates being where they are supposed to be.

2015 Final-Four ready Grayson Allen says hello! :)

I think you are spot on with this part of your post!

FadedTackyShirt
02-16-2017, 10:58 AM
'Hoos definitely miss Nichols. Perrantes will be a huge loss, Bart Simpson can play. Jerome and Guy are very promising offensive players, but need to pick it up on defense.

Troublemaker
02-16-2017, 11:02 AM
There's definitely a lot of conversation on our boards about Nichols. A lot of fans just want to forget about him and move on. They want to use his scholarship for a grad transfer big man. A lot of fans are putting the blame for this season solely on him. Others wonder if he could return to the team next year. I personally don't see it happening. But I didn't see him getting kicked off the team either. I am pretty surprised that you think we could be top 5 next year. I don't see it at all unless the juniors (Hall, Shayok, Thompson, Wilkins) all take massive leaps, especially on the offensive side of the ball. I am excited about the two guys we're redshirting in Huff and Hunter though. Perrantes will be a big loss but I like how Jerome has played and think he'll fill in nicely as the next UVA PG. I think we'll continue to be a top 25 team but top 5 is incredibly lofty. I'd love for you to be right but I have my reservations.

Oh, I just think you guys and Louisville are going to have the top 2 defenses in the country next season, by a decent margin, too. At that point, it just becomes about constructing a top-20-ish offense to be a title contender. I think the sophomore versions of Jerome and Guy will go a long way towards helping there.

Also, a lot of talent will be leaving college basketball. NBA scouts are salivating at how deep this draft is going to be.

I'm not ultra-confident that you'll be top-5 but I think you'll have a chance.

McGrupp
02-16-2017, 11:08 AM
What a great win last night. I was absolutely giddy about Tatum's performance, causing my wife (Carolina fan) to roll her eyes so hard I briefly feared they might pop out of her head.

We need 'em all at this point, but you never get 'em all, do you? So picking up a road win at UVA is HUGE! After all the ups and downs I'm getting very excited about this team.

devildeac
02-16-2017, 11:10 AM
What a great win last night. I was absolutely giddy about Tatum's performance, causing my wife (Carolina fan) to roll her eyes so hard I briefly feared they might pop out of her head.

We need 'em all at this point, but you never get 'em all, do you? So picking up a road win at UVA is HUGE! After all the ups and downs I'm getting very excited about this team.

Wow! Another name from the way-back machine. Welcome back!

Indoor66
02-16-2017, 11:14 AM
I don't know if you meant the only way to get better is to get some burn (in a live game), or not. But Jayson made an interesting comment after one of the recent games that deserves some consideration. He mentioned that the coaches make Matt guard Jayson in practice. So Jayson has to play against an outstanding defender in practice - hopefully making life a little easier for him during a real game.

I'm guessing that's a contributing factor to Jayson's improvement. Keep up the good work Matt!

There's that dang concept again: Practice. Must be something to that.

LasVegas
02-16-2017, 11:18 AM
Don't have time to quote the numerous people who commented on my post but someone up above was correct in that I didnt mean game time was the ONLY way to get better. It's what I said but not what I meant, if that makes any sense. Sure, large strides are made in practice with the best coach and going against other top talent. That can't be questioned. It's my opinion that in the short term outlook of things, freshman greatly benefit from in game experience. K always talks about trying to put his players in situations throughout the season in order to make them successful come march/April. It seems like he is doing just that with bolden and especially Giles. Baby steps. I just don't know if enough of the season is left.

And people are free to disagree with that. It's just the way I view things from the desert.

Duke95
02-16-2017, 11:27 AM
I could be wrong, but I suspect the maturation process for this team was longer than expected in part because of a) Duke's lack of a true point guard, and b) the additional time required to instill a defensive mindset into a relatively young, and previously injured team. It's worth remembering that Duke's defense was very suspect pre-NCAA tournament even in 2015. Some of that weakness was mitigated by the fact that we could overcome those shortcomings on the offensive side because we had a strong inside presence, good 3-point shooting, and a pair of point guards.

Overall, I was quite impressed by Duke's defensive performance last night. It bodes well for post-season success.

rsvman
02-16-2017, 11:29 AM
I 100% agree with this. Token full court press may have helped keep the game pace slow. However, I don’t think that Duke was going to be able to speed them up, regardless of how we played defense. We may as well burn 1/3rd of the clock without having to bump into all of UVA’s screens (stationary or otherwise).

UVA had a lot of poor shots late in the shot clock. They may be used to playing that way, but it makes their margin of error very small.

If anybody ever wonders why Seth Greenburg's teams were always on the wrong side of the bubble, during the halftime show he suggested that Duke's use of 3/4-court pressure was actually favorable for UVA. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hw3CE04LGiA (click on this: it's only a 4-second video; so worth it, and so important to this post)

As for me, I thought it was one of about 3 coaching adjustments that K made that were pretty much brilliant. But what do I know? I'm not an ESPN basketball analyst. :rolleyes: [We really need to find a better eye-rolling smilie, by the way.]

cato
02-16-2017, 11:31 AM
What a great win last night. I was absolutely giddy about Tatum's performance, causing my wife (Carolina fan) to roll her eyes so hard I briefly feared they might pop out of her head.

We need 'em all at this point, but you never get 'em all, do you? So picking up a road win at UVA is HUGE! After all the ups and downs I'm getting very excited about this team.

McGrupp!

Billy Dat
02-16-2017, 11:35 AM
There were a lot of interesting nuggests in K's post game presser:
http://www.goduke.com/mediaPortal/player.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&id=5964899

Talking about Tatum, he said that he thinks his physical effort on the defensive end, especially his rebounding, aided his offense. They have been working with him on being more physical and less finesse, which K described as having better pace and intensity. He said that is a huge thing for young players. He doesn't want Jayson to "play with it" meaning kind of pounding that dribble looking for something, he wants him going strong which makes his shot stronger. He also said that with a young player, like Jayson last night, picking up that first foul in the first minute of the game makes them go a little soft, and that it doesn't happen to veterans. Maybe that's why he's been so much better in second halves, its like he's finally warmed up (my take, not K's)

He lauded Matt Jones over this winning streak, especially the way he defended Jackson, Blossingame and then Perrentes.

The quick buckets at the start of the second half got us cooking again after a bad end to the first half.

Grayson and Amile are really banged up, K said we need to get them right by March.

Finally, my comment on the talk of us dominating the UVA series over the last few years...I agree that W-L is the only black and white measure, but Grayson's game winner last year was obviously a missed call, and the other miracle was Rasheed's crazy baseline shot that hit the rim and bounced straight up and in in 2014. The match-up is a whole lot closer than the record suggests.

As for Handsome Tony, I think he's great and one of the best D1 college coaches. BUT, if that style is what he will bring wherever he goes, count me out. I have gotten too used to fun offense, pace and space and a more pro style game. That deliberate, plodding, muck it up approach is definitely working and translates to a lot of Ws but no thanks.

grad_devil
02-16-2017, 11:36 AM
What a great win last night. I was absolutely giddy about Tatum's performance, causing my wife (Carolina fan) to roll her eyes so hard I briefly feared they might pop out of her head.

We need 'em all at this point, but you never get 'em all, do you? So picking up a road win at UVA is HUGE! After all the ups and downs I'm getting very excited about this team.


Wow! Another name from the way-back machine. Welcome back!


McGrupp!

Who's next? Jumbo? BillyBreen?

If I knew there was going to be a reunion, I would have prepared a dish to bring.

Welcome back, McGrupp!

ChillinDuke
02-16-2017, 11:40 AM
On point number two, I don't see how I could disagree more. No, Tatum won't go six for seven from three land very often, BUT, K asked him to shoot more in the second half, Allen was obviously hurting, and
the most important factor is that several of Tatum's shots occurred as the shot clock was running down. Should he have passed instead?
Furthermore, some of us have noticed that when he catches the ball and sets his feet, his shooting improves....I'd say most of his shots were precisely the kind of shots K would like him to take.

Tatum's shots from deep also look more in control to me with perhaps less fade. They just appear to be more stable. And I think the result is less erratic. Maybe?

- Chillin

BD80
02-16-2017, 11:46 AM
There were a lot of interesting nuggests in K's post game presser:
http://www.goduke.com/mediaPortal/player.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&id=5964899

Talking about Tatum, he said that he thinks his physical effort on the defensive end, especially his rebounding, aided his offense. They have been working with him on being more physical and less finesse, ... he wants him going strong which makes his shot stronger. ...

That was very noticeable in that he took NO fadeaway jumpers last night. A player of his height, length, agility and release should rarely, if ever, shoot a fadeaway in college. It will probably be his GO TO shot in the pros, but that can/should wait for next year.

Listen to Quants
02-16-2017, 11:49 AM
Yeah, people can be on either side of the fence with this and have an arguement. I just think when talking about college freshman, they greatly benefit from in game action. Especially when talking short term here.

You might take some comfort in that all three are getting at least brief playing time in big games. The behavior therapy advocates might say they are getting repeated exposure treatment to reduce anxiety. Frequency may be more important than duration for that.

LasVegas
02-16-2017, 11:55 AM
You might take some comfort in that all three are getting at least brief playing time in big games. The behavior therapy advocates might say they are getting repeated exposure treatment to reduce anxiety. Frequency may be more important than duration for that.

Yeah, that's kind of what I hit on in my follow up post. Baby steps. You can definitely see K trying to get them more and more action in certain situations. Time isn't on our side though.

Listen to Quants
02-16-2017, 12:00 PM
..... <snipping much good stuff> ....

Finally, my comment on the talk of us dominating the UVA series over the last few years...I agree that W-L is the only black and white measure, but Grayson's game winner last year was obviously a missed call, and the other miracle was Rasheed's crazy baseline shot that hit the rim and bounced straight up and in in 2014. The match-up is a whole lot closer than the record suggests.

As for Handsome Tony, I think he's great and one of the best D1 college coaches. BUT, if that style is what he will bring wherever he goes, count me out. I have gotten too used to fun offense, pace and space and a more pro style game. That deliberate, plodding, muck it up approach is definitely working and translates to a lot of Ws but no thanks.

For those of us who think "Vegas" provides the best guess, the 5 point Virginia-favored line was interesting and agrees exactly with your point that the match-up *is* close.

Bennett is remarkably successful and Duke needed a coach right now I'd love to see him there. I've thought he was more wed to his D style (which I admire) than his offense (which is as you say). Might he be willing to adapt to his personal if he got more highly ranked players?

Duke76
02-16-2017, 12:13 PM
as a person who will never listen to bilas call another game, i'd like to hear you elaborate on what collins said..


thanks

nothing in particular that I can remember now, but it was his general demeanor was more pleasing to hear. he has a great understanding of the game at both levels

DukieInBrasil
02-16-2017, 12:15 PM
There were a lot of interesting nuggests in K's post game presser:
http://www.goduke.com/mediaPortal/player.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&id=5964899

Talking about Tatum, he said that he thinks his physical effort on the defensive end, especially his rebounding, aided his offense. They have been working with him on being more physical and less finesse, which K described as having better pace and intensity. He said that is a huge thing for young players. He doesn't want Jayson to "play with it" meaning kind of pounding that dribble looking for something, he wants him going strong which makes his shot stronger. He also said that with a young player, like Jayson last night, picking up that first foul in the first minute of the game makes them go a little soft, and that it doesn't happen to veterans. Maybe that's why he's been so much better in second halves, its like he's finally warmed up (my take, not K's)

He lauded Matt Jones over this winning streak, especially the way he defended Jackson, Blossingame and then Perrentes.

The quick buckets at the start of the second half got us cooking again after a bad end to the first half.

Grayson and Amile are really banged up, K said we need to get them right by March.

Finally, my comment on the talk of us dominating the UVA series over the last few years...I agree that W-L is the only black and white measure, but Grayson's game winner last year was obviously a missed call, and the other miracle was Rasheed's crazy baseline shot that hit the rim and bounced straight up and in in 2014. The match-up is a whole lot closer than the record suggests.

As for Handsome Tony, I think he's great and one of the best D1 college coaches. BUT, if that style is what he will bring wherever he goes, count me out. I have gotten too used to fun offense, pace and space and a more pro style game. That deliberate, plodding, muck it up approach is definitely working and translates to a lot of Ws but no thanks.

you mean the bump he took before he shot the ball? Yeah, i think the refs swallowed their whistles b/c of the foul directly preceding the shot.

wilson
02-16-2017, 12:15 PM
...What is funny is that a bench player, particularly a freshman, will have a late-season "breakout" game, coming off the bench due to foul trouble or an injury. This leads to posts saying: "we should have been playing him more all year!" Poppycock. It shows that Coach K's system works, and that the staff IS working hard to make ALL of the players better and tournament ready.This is an excellent point. Take Grayson's 2015 title game breakout for example: After averaging 9 minutes per game, he was needed due to in-game exigencies, and on literally the biggest stage, he proved himself ready to contribute when presented with the opportunity to play more than double his season average (21 minutes in the title game). Grayson didn't all of a sudden get better because he had the chance to play more in the title game; he demonstrated during the game that his non-game work and preparation did exactly what it was supposed to do.

Duke76
02-16-2017, 12:17 PM
That was very noticeable in that he took NO fadeaway jumpers last night. A player of his height, length, agility and release should rarely, if ever, shoot a fadeaway in college. It will probably be his GO TO shot in the pros, but that can/should wait for next year.

agree with all that offensively,,,,defensively he really shines on rebounds and believe he blocked a three point attempt in 2nd half and I think he alters more than others shots so he can be a game changer on defensive as well...the guy can sky for rebounds....he and giles vertically have to be among the top 5 for Duke in standing vertical jumping ability, imo

DukieInBrasil
02-16-2017, 12:19 PM
agree with all that offensively,,,,defensively he really shines on rebounds and believe he blocked a three point attempt in 2nd half and I think he alters more than others shots so he can be a game changer on defensive as well...the guy can sky for rebounds...he and giles vertically have to be among the top 5 for Duke in standing vertical jumping ability, imo

oh yeah, he definitely blocked a late 3 attempt from Shayok i think. It was a big momentum killer too, potentially. Had Shayok made that shot the game would have taken a very different demeanor down the stretch.

UrinalCake
02-16-2017, 12:24 PM
K said in postgame that Giles tank was empty after playing his largest number of minutes for season.

Thats good to know; I have been wondering for a while now how much health and conditioning had to do with Giles's limited minutes. After he had that scope back in October a lot of us felt like if we could get 15-20 minutes per game out of him then we would be happy. But our memories are short and it seems like a lot of folks now want him to be playing 25-30 minutes, forgetting that he is still recovering from and managing some major injuries. Also, even though UVA plays a slow pace they are so physical and do so much off-ball screening that playing them really takes a lot out of you.

Loved the poise that the team showed amid all the adversity. Their body language was good even when UVA would make a mini-run or we'd make a mistake. Tatum's rebounding was equally as impressive as his shooting; many were of the tough variety grabbed from within a crowd of bodies.

My biggest concern is over-reliance on the three. We've shot really well in our big wins (ND, UNC, UVA) and that's a bit of a red flag come tourney time. On the other hand, that's just the system we run and there aren't many other teams that can shoot poorly and still beat a top team in a given game.

COYS
02-16-2017, 12:24 PM
If anybody ever wonders why Seth Greenburg's teams were always on the wrong side of the bubble, during the halftime show he suggested that Duke's use of 3/4-court pressure was actually favorable for UVA. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hw3CE04LGiA (click on this: it's only a 4-second video; so worth it, and so important to this post)

As for me, I thought it was one of about 3 coaching adjustments that K made that were pretty much brilliant. But what do I know? I'm not an ESPN basketball analyst. :rolleyes: [We really need to find a better eye-rolling smilie, by the way.]

Ugh. I saw this too. It was so annoying and shows how lazy Greenburg and other ESPN analysts can be. Playing aggressive, full-court man to man would be great . . . if Duke were a team that actually likes to play fast (we're 180 in adjusted tempo after last night's game and we've been around average in tempo for most of the season) and if Duke were a team that forces turnovers (we're below average at forcing turnovers). Our improvement on defense has come from our ability to play in the half court without fouling while also cutting down on the number of rotational breakdowns. This has also been the best defensive rebounding team K has had in the KenPom era. Last night was a comparatively poor night on the defensive glass for this team. Luckily, our half court D was so good, giving up a few extra open boards didn't lead to many points for UVA. Meanwhile, our shot-clock milking zone press forced UVA into bad shot after bad shot.

I hate when analysts uncritically regurgitate popular assumptions about teams and their strengths and weaknesses. Luckily, the combo of Collins and Bilas offered a lot more in their analysis. And, most of all, thankfully K and the staff know what they are doing.

Troublemaker
02-16-2017, 12:25 PM
For those of us who think "Vegas" provides the best guess, the 5 point Virginia-favored line was interesting and agrees exactly with your point that the match-up *is* close.

Bennett is remarkably successful and Duke needed a coach right now I'd love to see him there. I've thought he was more wed to his D style (which I admire) than his offense (which is as you say). Might he be willing to adapt to his personnel if he got more highly ranked players?

I've read that NBA front office folks (off the record) like him a lot, and that's what they must be betting on. Because neither his defense nor his offense is an NBA scheme. The NBA is a 3-obsessed league, so you can't just pack the lane and allow people to shoot 3s. And on offense, he'd have to move to a more PNR-based scheme.


This is an excellent point. Take Grayson's 2015 title game breakout for example: After averaging 9 minutes per game, he was needed due to in-game exigencies, and on literally the biggest stage, he proved himself ready to contribute when presented with the opportunity to play more than double his season average. Grayson didn't all of a sudden get better because he had the chance to play more in the title game; he demonstrated during the game that his non-game work and preparation did exactly what it was supposed to do.

And to bring it home (I think), you could say that Duke is actually a deep team. Because quality matters more than quantity (of minutes played). I love our bench. The fact that we're bringing Frank Jackson, Harry Giles, and Marques Bolden off the bench is kinda awesome.

kmspeaks
02-16-2017, 12:26 PM
One thing that was not explicitly mentioned is that UVA exploited the way we ran screens and we picked up 2 fouls on Amile that led to his 4 foul problem. UVA is clever at running into the screener and getting the call. Need to review how we handle that going forward. I looked again at the line on Luke and still disagree that he had anything like a poor game. Coach K kept him in for all 40 minutes. I know he had 16 points 7 rebounds and a number of assists with low turnovers/

Maybe, but honestly I was laughing too hard at the fact that Duke got called for 2 moving screens when playing a team that averages 2.3 of them per possession to notice whether it was Amile doing something different than normal or just college refs being bad again.

LasVegas
02-16-2017, 12:27 PM
This is an excellent point. Take Grayson's 2015 title game breakout for example: After averaging 9 minutes per game, he was needed due to in-game exigencies, and on literally the biggest stage, he proved himself ready to contribute when presented with the opportunity to play more than double his season average (21 minutes in the title game). Grayson didn't all of a sudden get better because he had the chance to play more in the title game; he demonstrated during the game that his non-game work and preparation did exactly what it was supposed to do.

Allen also had games where he scored 10,27,and 11 before the NCAA tourney....I'll take that from Giles, please!

Highlander
02-16-2017, 12:27 PM
Duke's D held UVA to their lowest point total of the season and committed 12 total fouls for the game (compared to 21 for UVA). Duke also scored more points vs. UVA (65) than they did against Clemson (64).

But that UVA defense... They play without fouling....

devildeac
02-16-2017, 12:33 PM
Maybe, but honestly I was laughing too hard at the fact that Duke got called for 2 moving screens when playing a team that averages 2.3 of them per possession to notice whether it was Amile doing something different than normal or just college refs being bad again.

I, for one (of several), was not laughing too hard at those multiple moving screens that went uncalled against UVa. :mad:

(But, I digress :o.)

FerryFor50
02-16-2017, 12:33 PM
you mean the bump he took before he shot the ball? Yeah, i think the refs swallowed their whistles b/c of the foul directly preceding the shot.

Incidentally, the player that bumped Allen on the play last year was Shayok. Who was also in charge of bumping Kennard all game last night.

Neals384
02-16-2017, 12:34 PM
There were a lot of interesting nuggests in K's post game presser:
http://www.goduke.com/mediaPortal/player.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&id=5964899

Talking about Tatum, he said that he thinks his physical effort on the defensive end, especially his rebounding, aided his offense. They have been working with him on being more physical and less finesse, which K described as having better pace and intensity. He said that is a huge thing for young players. He doesn't want Jayson to "play with it" meaning kind of pounding that dribble looking for something, he wants him going strong which makes his shot stronger. He also said that with a young player, like Jayson last night, picking up that first foul in the first minute of the game makes them go a little soft, and that it doesn't happen to veterans. Maybe that's why he's been so much better in second halves, its like he's finally warmed up (my take, not K's)

He lauded Matt Jones over this winning streak, especially the way he defended Jackson, Blossingame and then Perrentes.

The quick buckets at the start of the second half got us cooking again after a bad end to the first half.

Grayson and Amile are really banged up, K said we need to get them right by March.

Finally, my comment on the talk of us dominating the UVA series over the last few years...I agree that W-L is the only black and white measure, but Grayson's game winner last year was obviously a missed call, and the other miracle was Rasheed's crazy baseline shot that hit the rim and bounced straight up and in in 2014. The match-up is a whole lot closer than the record suggests.

As for Handsome Tony, I think he's great and one of the best D1 college coaches. BUT, if that style is what he will bring wherever he goes, count me out. I have gotten too used to fun offense, pace and space and a more pro style game. That deliberate, plodding, muck it up approach is definitely working and translates to a lot of Ws but no thanks.

I wondered in the pre-game thread why there aren't more UVA defense copycats. This may be why. Fans don't like it, and I doubt most players would like it either. But UVA guys seem to have bought in.

jimsumner
02-16-2017, 12:34 PM
Duke's D held UVA to their lowest point total of the season and committed 12 total fouls for the game (compared to 21 for UVA). Duke also scored more points vs. UVA (65) than they did against Clemson (64).

But that UVA defense... They play without fouling...

The foul total is a bit misleading because Virginia fouled a lot down the stretch. On purpose. A lot.

As an aside, I'm a bit perplexed by the folks who are downplaying the K-coaching tree. Tommy Amaker has been pretty impressive at Harvard and what Chris Collins is doing at Northwestern is unprecedented in that school's history.

CDu
02-16-2017, 12:34 PM
Duke's D held UVA to their lowest point total of the season and committed 12 total fouls for the game (compared to 21 for UVA). Duke also scored more points vs. UVA (65) than they did against Clemson (64).

But that UVA defense... They play without fouling...

To be fair, UVa's 21 fouls was inflated by the foul fest at the end. UVa had just 13 fouls with 1:36 to go in the game, but fouled us 8 times (3 times just to get into the bonus, and then 5 more times after that).

Of course, both teams committed way more than 12/13 fouls in the game. The officials were just letting them play so to speak.

devildeac
02-16-2017, 12:35 PM
Incidentally, the player that bumped Allen on the play last year was Shayok. Who was also in charge of bumping Kennard all game last night.

Did you note who was in charge of Kennard's "spontaneous" facial hemorrhaging last PM, too? :mad:

FerryFor50
02-16-2017, 12:37 PM
Did you note who was in charge of Kennard's "spontaneous" facial hemorrhaging last PM, too? :mad:

Obviously, Kennard bloodied himself in an attempt to draw a foul in classic Duke self-flagellating flop fashion.

devildeac
02-16-2017, 12:39 PM
Obviously, Kennard bloodied himself in an attempt to draw a foul in classic Duke self-flagellating flop fashion.

Just as I thought but also considered blaming Grayson. :rolleyes:

CDu
02-16-2017, 12:39 PM
Did you note who was in charge of Kennard's "spontaneous" facial hemorrhaging last PM, too? :mad:

I was trying to figure out when that happened. When the TV crew noticed it, they showed a replay. But in the clip, Kennard already had the bloody mouth, and he didn't get hit in the face on the play they showed. So it had to have happened earlier. Not sure when or how it happened.

Faison1
02-16-2017, 12:50 PM
I was trying to figure out when that happened. When the TV crew noticed it, they showed a replay. But in the clip, Kennard already had the bloody mouth, and he didn't get hit in the face on the play they showed. So it had to have happened earlier. Not sure when or how it happened.

Pretty sure it happened on previous play during defensive rebound. I think I saw Tatum battling for ball, and headbutted Luke. UVA was called for a foul.

McGrupp
02-16-2017, 12:55 PM
Who's next? Jumbo? BillyBreen?

If I knew there was going to be a reunion, I would have prepared a dish to bring.

Welcome back, McGrupp!

I'm going to go ahead and guess "no" on Jumbo.

Greetings all. Glad to see an active community here.

An to the point, also super excited by Duke's recent run. I was fortunate enough to attend the Carolina game and hoped it would be part of a special push to end the season. As a '95 grad, I, like many of you, suffered heart palpitations at the phrase "back surgery" and wondered which way this thing was headed. At this point it looks like the sky is the limit. Looking of the AP top 10, you think any one of those teams wants a piece of us?

devildeac
02-16-2017, 12:58 PM
Hoping/cheering for a UVa bounce back win on Saturday. ;)

uh_no
02-16-2017, 01:02 PM
Grayson's game winner last year was obviously a missed call

yeah, i couldn't believe the refs missed the egregious foul.

hibby91
02-16-2017, 01:05 PM
nothing in particular that I can remember now, but it was his general demeanor was more pleasing to hear. he has a great understanding of the game at both levels

I remember at least one point in the game where there was actually silence for about 15 seconds of a possession. I believe it was the 2nd half and Duke was on D. Maybe the announcers weren't used to working together or maybe they realized that they didn't need to fill every moment between breathes with the same words. Maybe I was recovering from listening to Vitale and Walton during the Cavs game. :p

I consider Collins to be part of the extended Duke family and subsequently enjoy his insight. He understands the Duke program.

CDu
02-16-2017, 01:07 PM
Pretty sure it happened on previous play during defensive rebound. I think I saw Tatum battling for ball, and headbutted Luke. UVA was called for a foul.

Just went back and watched, and you're right. When Tatum went down trying to maintain the rebound, Kennard tried to reach in for it too. And either Tatum's head or shoulder or elbow hit Kennard in the mouth. You can see Kennard spin a way and grab his mouth after the collision.

weezie
02-16-2017, 01:12 PM
Someone in the post-game presser with Bennett noted that Duke was the 19th game where the opponent had a better shooting % in the second half than the first. Bennett attributed it to coming out ready, but not playing great defense for 40 minutes.


Tony is an honest guy and a gentleman but he needs to adjust his offense. Can't just pass dribble pass pass use up clock then clang it off the rim. Brogdon is gone, adjust to the team you have now.

Billy Dat
02-16-2017, 01:15 PM
I wondered in the pre-game thread why there aren't more UVA defense copycats. This may be why. Fans don't like it, and I doubt most players would like it either. But UVA guys seem to have bought in.

I should have been more specific, I really admire their defense, I just can't watch that offense. To be fair, they are really limited this year with offensive star power but that low possession style is painful. Others have said that it's hard to coach that kind of D without year-to-year continuity of personnel, so programs with more early departures might have to go a different route. But, some of those UVA guys, to me, had the chops to open up the offense a bit. That kid Marial Shayok, for example, he seemed to be crafty/creative (he was also 3/11). But, it seems like a Spartan philosophy, lunch pail on both ends. As to whether or not Handsome Tony would be a good NBA coach, he played in the NBA so that is a huge leg up. He seems like more of a system coach than, say, Brad Stevens who was able to evolve his schemes once he got world class talent. Bennett is really smart, I wouldn't bet against him. My comment was that if he brought that style to Duke, I wouldn't necessarily be in favor. Maybe I'll feel differently if he is regularly beating post-K-Duke.

budwom
02-16-2017, 01:25 PM
yup, Bennett does a phenomenal job with the talent he has, but I don't think I'd enjoy his style of play at Duke. I'm not sure a lot of top
players would want to play in that style/system...perhaps he'd change, but I suspect he's most comfy doing what he does now.

hibby91
02-16-2017, 01:25 PM
If anybody ever wonders why Seth Greenburg's teams were always on the wrong side of the bubble, during the halftime show he suggested that Duke's use of 3/4-court pressure was actually favorable for UVA. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hw3CE04LGiA (click on this: it's only a 4-second video; so worth it, and so important to this post)

As for me, I thought it was one of about 3 coaching adjustments that K made that were pretty much brilliant. But what do I know? I'm not an ESPN basketball analyst. :rolleyes: [We really need to find a better eye-rolling smilie, by the way.]

I was definitely thinking of the halftime comments when I made my original post. I thought it was a huge adjustment at the time and they stuck with it.

Throughout the game, there was a lot of justifiable praise for Virginia's defense and how they were holding Duke down offensively. Curiously, however, Duke was almost always leading the game when those comments were made. Duke has shown that they don't have to score 80 to win.

CDu
02-16-2017, 01:30 PM
I should have been more specific, I really admire their defense, I just can't watch that offense. To be fair, they are really limited this year with offensive star power but that low possession style is painful. Others have said that it's hard to coach that kind of D without year-to-year continuity of personnel, so programs with more early departures might have to go a different route. But, some of those UVA guys, to me, had the chops to open up the offense a bit. That kid Marial Shayok, for example, he seemed to be crafty/creative (he was also 3/11). But, it seems like a Spartan philosophy, lunch pail on both ends. As to whether or not Handsome Tony would be a good NBA coach, he played in the NBA so that is a huge leg up. He seems like more of a system coach than, say, Brad Stevens who was able to evolve his schemes once he got world class talent. Bennett is really smart, I wouldn't bet against him. My comment was that if he brought that style to Duke, I wouldn't necessarily be in favor. Maybe I'll feel differently if he is regularly beating post-K-Duke.

Perrantes, Shayok, Hall, and especially Guy are all quite capable offensive players. Guy is an incredibly dynamic talent on offense. With Shayok, the limitation is ballhandling. He dribbles kind of like Carrawell did, and not in a good way. But his athletic skills and confidence make him a good offensive weapon. Perrantes isn't the athlete that those two are, but he's extremely gifted with the ball in his hands and is a terrific shooter (especially in the midrange game). Hall is kind of in between: not as athletic as Guy and Shayok, but not quite as skilled as Perrantes.

But those four are all very capable offensive players. To some degree, they appear to be restrained a bit by the system at UVa. Bennett seems to really want to avoid turnovers and transition opportunities, which plays against overly aggressive offensive play. Which plays against the strengths of Shayok and Guy for sure.

But I agree: it's hard to watch UVa on offense. Even when they are good, it's not "fun" to watch. Defensively, they are terrific, in large part because the system is good and in large part because the players are experienced and often good. The freshmen just don't typically get much run for Bennett (Perrantes is a rare exception). Bennett's teams are always loaded with 3- and 4-year guys, with the 1- and 2-year guys playing smaller roles.

Ultrarunner
02-16-2017, 01:32 PM
I, for one (of several), was not laughing too hard at those multiple moving screens that went uncalled against UVa. :mad:

(But, I digress :o.)

The one that Salt laid on Jayson was bad. Also made Jayson mad. He plays well with passion. Buried a three pointer seconds later, and followed it with another the next time down the floor.

jv001
02-16-2017, 01:34 PM
There were a lot of interesting nuggests in K's post game presser:
http://www.goduke.com/mediaPortal/player.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&id=5964899

Talking about Tatum, he said that he thinks his physical effort on the defensive end, especially his rebounding, aided his offense. They have been working with him on being more physical and less finesse, which K described as having better pace and intensity. He said that is a huge thing for young players. He doesn't want Jayson to "play with it" meaning kind of pounding that dribble looking for something, he wants him going strong which makes his shot stronger. He also said that with a young player, like Jayson last night, picking up that first foul in the first minute of the game makes them go a little soft, and that it doesn't happen to veterans. Maybe that's why he's been so much better in second halves, its like he's finally warmed up (my take, not K's)

He lauded Matt Jones over this winning streak, especially the way he defended Jackson, Blossingame and then Perrentes.

The quick buckets at the start of the second half got us cooking again after a bad end to the first half.

Grayson and Amile are really banged up, K said we need to get them right by March.

Finally, my comment on the talk of us dominating the UVA series over the last few years...I agree that W-L is the only black and white measure, but Grayson's game winner last year was obviously a missed call, and the other miracle was Rasheed's crazy baseline shot that hit the rim and bounced straight up and in in 2014. The match-up is a whole lot closer than the record suggests.

As for Handsome Tony, I think he's great and one of the best D1 college coaches. BUT, if that style is what he will bring wherever he goes, count me out. I have gotten too used to fun offense, pace and space and a more pro style game. That deliberate, plodding, muck it up approach is definitely working and translates to a lot of Ws but no thanks.

Didn't his dad use the same kind of defense and slow offense before he retired? If so, more than likely it would be more of the same wherever Tony coaches. Thanks for the Coach K nuggets. GoDuke!

Rich
02-16-2017, 01:37 PM
I wonder if UVA's style of play (both O and D) requires extreme levels of mental and physical conditioning that catches up to exhausted players as the second half grinds on.

Just throwing this out there, but perhaps other coaches are better than Bennett at making in-game (halftime) modifications based on the UVA defense and Bennett is not as adept at countering. As many games as I watch, and as much as I love college basketball, I'm not much of a basketball strategist (A sets, floppy sets, etc.), but the announcers last night alluded to a small tweak in how we set up our offense after the half that helped open up driving lanes. Plus, as others have mentioned, we played fewer sets and more individual basketball in the second half last night. Perhaps Bennett just isn't that good at tweaking his defense to counter.

MChambers
02-16-2017, 01:38 PM
Man, what a game! Yes, the game was slow and at times ugly. UVa is very adept at slowing the game down, and they're very good at applying just the right amount of contact on defense to avoid getting called. Mostly off-ball stuff, which tends to get called less than on-ball stuff. But - especially at home - they are allowed to play physical.
UVa is also adept at applying the right amount of contact on offensive screens. Man, Salt and Wilkins got away with some hip checks on offense.

FadedTackyShirt
02-16-2017, 01:53 PM
Didn't his dad use the same kind of defense and slow offense before he retired? If so, more than likely it would be more of the same wherever Tony coaches. Thanks for the Coach K nuggets. GoDuke!

Different system, but Bo Ryan was a system coach too. Bo & the Bennetts came up through the smaller schools within the UW system. Entire state of Wisconsin has a million less people than the SF Bay Area. Bennetts took their system to Washington State too.

Perrantes is from SoCal and Man Bun's from Indy, so UVa can recruit nationally. May be a UVa lifer, but would have access to better recruits at a blueblood.

jv001
02-16-2017, 01:54 PM
UVa is also adept at applying the right amount of contact on offensive screens. Man, Salt and Wilkins got away with some hip checks on offense.

Those moving screens that were not called, had me yelling at the TV screen, but the refs must not have heard me. I guess what made me angry was the ones that were called against us and none against the Cavs. Very good win in the tough ACC. GoDuke!

Indoor66
02-16-2017, 02:29 PM
I remember at least one point in the game where there was actually silence for about 15 seconds of a possession. I believe it was the 2nd half and Duke was on D. Maybe the announcers weren't used to working together or maybe they realized that they didn't need to fill every moment between breathes with the same words. Maybe I was recovering from listening to Vitale and Walton during the Cavs game. :p

I consider Collins to be part of the extended Duke family and subsequently enjoy his insight. He understands the Duke program.

Have your eyes healed from looking at Walton's shirt?

English
02-16-2017, 03:03 PM
Just went back and watched, and you're right. When Tatum went down trying to maintain the rebound, Kennard tried to reach in for it too. And either Tatum's head or shoulder or elbow hit Kennard in the mouth. You can see Kennard spin a way and grab his mouth after the collision.

Clarification, because it's not clear to me...was this the play when Tatum was battling over Wilkins for the rebound? If that's the case, the foul was called on Wilkins for the reach-in. I never saw Luke take the header, but I was a bit surprised by the foul call during an impossibly physical game.

That was a man's rebound, though. Great effort and hops.

kAzE
02-16-2017, 03:05 PM
Just throwing this out there, but perhaps other coaches are better than Bennett at making in-game (halftime) modifications based on the UVA defense and Bennett is not as adept at countering. As many games as I watch, and as much as I love college basketball, I'm not much of a basketball strategist (A sets, floppy sets, etc.), but the announcers last night alluded to a small tweak in how we set up our offense after the half that helped open up driving lanes. Plus, as others have mentioned, we played fewer sets and more individual basketball in the second half last night. Perhaps Bennett just isn't that good at tweaking his defense to counter.

I can't see how you could knock Tony Bennett at all for his coaching in the 2nd half. Even Coach K said our 2nd half had little to do with actual coaching. He just let his much more talented players make plays. There's not a defense for a 6'9" guy who can handle like a guard and can drill bombs with a hand in his face. At least not with UVA's personnel. Maybe if they had Kawhi Leonard or LeBron James. On a lot of Jayson's 3s down the stretch, they basically defended us perfectly for 20-25 seconds and Jayson just made ridiculous shots in UVA's face as the shot clock expired. All you can do as a coach is put your best defender on him and hope he bothers the guy enough to make him miss. That was just a OAD talent making big shots.

Rich
02-16-2017, 03:10 PM
I can't see how you could knock Tony Bennett at all for his coaching in the 2nd half. Even Coach K said our 2nd half had little to do with actual coaching. He just let his much more talented players make plays. There's not a defense for a 6'9" guy who can handle like a guard and can drill bombs with a hand in his face. On a lot of Jayson's 3s down the stretch, they basically defended us perfectly for 25-30 seconds and Jayson just made ridiculous shots in UVA's face as the shot clock expired. All you can do as a coach is put your best defender on him and hope he bothers the guy enough to make him miss.

It was more of a knock on their entire season -- http://www.streakingthelawn.com/2017/2/14/14608752/virginia-cavaliers-college-basketball-road-second-half-scoring-struggles

Overall on the season, Virginia has outscored opponents by 10 points per game in the first half, but only 5 per game in the second. This is a combination of blowing out easy teams in the non-conference schedule and letting leads slip away in ACC play.

As in ACC play, the away stats for the entire season pop out. The Cavaliers outscore opponents by 10 points per game in the first half on the road, which is second best in the country, behind only No. 1 undefeated Gonzaga. However, in the second half, the Hoos are outscored by an average of 1 point per game. That -11 differential is the worst in the entire country, out of 351 teams!

kAzE
02-16-2017, 03:18 PM
It was more of a knock on their entire season -- http://www.streakingthelawn.com/2017/2/14/14608752/virginia-cavaliers-college-basketball-road-second-half-scoring-struggles

Overall on the season, Virginia has outscored opponents by 10 points per game in the first half, but only 5 per game in the second. This is a combination of blowing out easy teams in the non-conference schedule and letting leads slip away in ACC play.

As in ACC play, the away stats for the entire season pop out. The Cavaliers outscore opponents by 10 points per game in the first half on the road, which is second best in the country, behind only No. 1 undefeated Gonzaga. However, in the second half, the Hoos are outscored by an average of 1 point per game. That -11 differential is the worst in the entire country, out of 351 teams!

I haven't watched enough UVA basketball this year to really speak to the cause of these blown halftime leads, but if I had to guess, I'd say that it's probably due to their lack of options on offense. Perrantes is really good, but he has no business being the #1 option on a top 10 team's offense.

Troublemaker
02-16-2017, 03:28 PM
I can't see how you could knock Tony Bennett at all for his coaching in the 2nd half. Even Coach K said our 2nd half had little to do with actual coaching. He just let his much more talented players make plays. There's not a defense for a 6'9" guy who can handle like a guard and can drill bombs with a hand in his face. At least not with UVA's personnel. Maybe if they had Kawhi Leonard or LeBron James. On a lot of Jayson's 3s down the stretch, they basically defended us perfectly for 20-25 seconds and Jayson just made ridiculous shots in UVA's face as the shot clock expired. All you can do as a coach is put your best defender on him and hope he bothers the guy enough to make him miss. That was just a OAD talent making big shots.

Coach K was being modest, though. I'm not knocking Bennett, but while it's true that Tatum went off 1-on-1 to finish out the game for Duke (and that truly is not coaching -- other than that the coaches wanted the ball in his hands and had played a huge role in developing him), Duke had already attained game control on UVA by that point. (I was kind of upset we weren't leading by more.) And the reason we had game control before Jayson finished it was because we ran our PNR farther out for more space and used a hard slip to the basket to open up passing and driving angles that weren't there previously. Jayson was Jayson, but that PNR tweak was excellent X-and-O coaching. That said, perhaps Bennett didn't have the combination of talent and experience to really respond this season. Which would be understandable. They lost a lot from last season, and this is a rebuilding/reloading year for them.

subzero02
02-16-2017, 03:29 PM
agree with all that offensively,,,,defensively he really shines on rebounds and believe he blocked a three point attempt in 2nd half and I think he alters more than others shots so he can be a game changer on defensive as well...the guy can sky for rebounds...he and giles vertically have to be among the top 5 for Duke in standing vertical jumping ability, imo

If you're talking about on the current roster, then yes, definitely.

I don't think they come close to top 5 all time though...

Maggette, Dahntay Jones, Gerald, MP1, and G. Hill rank ahead of them IMO.

curtis325
02-16-2017, 03:34 PM
Different system, but Bo Ryan was a system coach too. Bo & the Bennetts came up through the smaller schools within the UW system. Entire state of Wisconsin has a million less people than the SF Bay Area. Bennetts took their system to Washington State too.

Perrantes is from SoCal and Man Bun's from Indy, so UVa can recruit nationally. May be a UVa lifer, but would have access to better recruits at a blueblood.

If I'm not mistaken, Tony left his heart there.

sagegrouse
02-16-2017, 03:36 PM
If you're talking about on the current roster, then yes, definitely.

I don't think they come close to top 5 all time though...

Maggette, Dahntay Jones, Gerald, MP1, and G. Hill rank ahead of them IMO.

Brickey.

DukieInBrasil
02-16-2017, 03:37 PM
Did you note who was in charge of Kennard's "spontaneous" facial hemorrhaging last PM, too? :mad:

i was also noticing the copious quantities of large purple/green splotches on Luke's arms and shoulders, in addition to the blood. Maybe Luke just beats himself up too much.

jv001
02-16-2017, 03:40 PM
Brickey.

Robert Brickey for a 6'5" center, he could get up there with the best of them. I had forgotten about him. GoDuke1

WHOneedsSOX
02-16-2017, 03:43 PM
So how does Duke get Grayson and Amile as healthy as possible for March and April? If they sit them then that'll mess with the chemistry that they're still building on. But can they really get healthy if they keep playing? Even fewer minutes doesn't seem like it'll help them.

FadedTackyShirt
02-16-2017, 03:48 PM
If I'm not mistaken, Tony left his heart there.

Well played! I get weepy every time Tony sings after a Giants win in SF. He should go to USF-they've been crappy since getting popped for cheating in the '80s.

CDu
02-16-2017, 04:12 PM
Clarification, because it's not clear to me...was this the play when Tatum was battling over Wilkins for the rebound? If that's the case, the foul was called on Wilkins for the reach-in. I never saw Luke take the header, but I was a bit surprised by the foul call during an impossibly physical game.

That was a man's rebound, though. Great effort and hops.

This is indeed that play. It was a shaky foul call, especially given the amount of contact that WAS allowed in the game. But I'll take it. :)

In terms of Kennard's bleeding, it happened like this. When Tatum loses the ball after out-jumping Wilkins for it, he spins rapidly to his right to try to regain it. At the same time, Kennard is on his right and reaching for the ball. As Kennard leans down to try to grab the ball, his face meets Tatum's left shoulder or elbow. You say Kennard then whip back and grab his face immediately.

Olympic Fan
02-16-2017, 04:17 PM
Robert Brickey for a 6'5" center, he could get up there with the best of them. I had forgotten about him. GoDuke1

Can't forget this play:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FjUkAV4Jek

10 seconds in -- Brickey blocks Jeff Lebo's jumper to preserve Duke's 70-69 win in Chapel Hill ... the first leg of the 1988 Triple Crown

wilson
02-16-2017, 04:22 PM
i was also noticing the copious quantities of large purple/green splotches on Luke's arms and shoulders, in addition to the blood. Maybe Luke just beats himself up too much.Has Ademola Okulaja somehow infiltrated our program?

grad_devil
02-16-2017, 04:22 PM
Clarification, because it's not clear to me...was this the play when Tatum was battling over Wilkins for the rebound? If that's the case, the foul was called on Wilkins for the reach-in. I never saw Luke take the header, but I was a bit surprised by the foul call during an impossibly physical game.

That was a man's rebound, though. Great effort and hops.


This is indeed that play. It was a shaky foul call, especially given the amount of contact that WAS allowed in the game. But I'll take it. :)

In terms of Kennard's bleeding, it happened like this. When Tatum loses the ball after out-jumping Wilkins for it, he spins rapidly to his right to try to regain it. At the same time, Kennard is on his right and reaching for the ball. As Kennard leans down to try to grab the ball, his face meets Tatum's left shoulder or elbow. You say Kennard then whip back and grab his face immediately.

Here's the one:

Original view (higher-res (https://giant.gfycat.com/AlarmingOrganicEeve.gif)):
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AlarmingOrganicEeve-size_restricted.gif

Overhead view (higher-res (https://giant.gfycat.com/HandyCornyCaterpillar.gif)):
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/HandyCornyCaterpillar-size_restricted.gif

Devilwin
02-16-2017, 04:28 PM
Brickey.

Brickey had a 42" vertical...

Indoor66
02-16-2017, 04:35 PM
Brickey had a 42" vertical...

Air Brickey! Ya gotta love it.

OldPhiKap
02-16-2017, 04:38 PM
Can't forget this play:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FjUkAV4Jek

10 seconds in -- Brickey blocks Jeff Lebo's jumper to preserve Duke's 70-69 win in Chapel Hill ... the first leg of the 1988 Triple Crown

Ah, my senior year. The '88 team was fun.

Devilwin
02-16-2017, 06:02 PM
Air Brickey! CHECK THIS OUT!

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LEVjuHLqZYcF4ATCwnnIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTEybjU5a2V 1BGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMyBHZ0aWQDQjM0NDhfMQRzZWMDc3I-/RV=2/RE=1487314696/RO=10/RU=http%3a%2f%2fwww.youtube.com%2fwatch%3fv%3doqAZ ZSqM-Io/RK=0/RS=wulphhS5dLpyPCFiYYPkyfBzQuk-

Indoor66
02-16-2017, 06:20 PM
Air Brickey! CHECK THIS OUT!

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LEVjuHLqZYcF4ATCwnnIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTEybjU5a2V 1BGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMyBHZ0aWQDQjM0NDhfMQRzZWMDc3I-/RV=2/RE=1487314696/RO=10/RU=http%3a%2f%2fwww.youtube.com%2fwatch%3fv%3doqAZ ZSqM-Io/RK=0/RS=wulphhS5dLpyPCFiYYPkyfBzQuk-

And he had that beautiful boyish grin.

Neals384
02-16-2017, 06:36 PM
By the way, Giles did not play 19 minutes, as the box score says. He played 16 minutes and 28 seconds. I just rewatched the game to be sure. Harry's shifts:

First half - 14:40 to 10:37 (4:03)
First half - 9:28 to 6:56 (2:32)
First Half - 3:18 to end of half. (3:18)
Second half - 15:35 to 9:07 (6:28)

The play-by-play shows Harry subbing out at 3:33 of the first half, but it was Bolden who was in from 6:56 to 3:33.

I should have the +/- up shortly - when the is any sort of error in the play by play, it does delay things, sorry.

-jk
02-16-2017, 06:59 PM
Coach K was being modest, though. I'm not knocking Bennett, but while it's true that Tatum went off 1-on-1 to finish out the game for Duke (and that truly is not coaching -- other than that the coaches wanted the ball in his hands and had played a huge role in developing him), Duke had already attained game control on UVA by that point. (I was kind of upset we weren't leading by more.) And the reason we had game control before Jayson finished it was because we ran our PNR farther out for more space and used a hard slip to the basket to open up passing and driving angles that weren't there previously. Jayson was Jayson, but that PNR tweak was excellent X-and-O coaching. That said, perhaps Bennett didn't have the combination of talent and experience to really respond this season. Which would be understandable. They lost a lot from last season, and this is a rebuilding/reloading year for them.

K teaches spacing, teaches passing. Jayson didn't get those shots completely on his own - he had help. Not really one-on-one... When UVa shut down Grayson and Luke, they found Jayson. It's a team game! On both ends...

-jk

Im4howdy
02-16-2017, 08:11 PM
If you're talking about on the current roster, then yes, definitely.

I don't think they come close to top 5 all time though...

Maggette, Dahntay Jones, Gerald, MP1, and G. Hill rank ahead of them IMO.


Ah...I'll take Robert Brickey for $500

lotusland
02-16-2017, 08:41 PM
Perrantes, Shayok, Hall, and especially Guy are all quite capable offensive players. Guy is an incredibly dynamic talent on offense. With Shayok, the limitation is ballhandling. He dribbles kind of like Carrawell did, and not in a good way. But his athletic skills and confidence make him a good offensive weapon. Perrantes isn't the athlete that those two are, but he's extremely gifted with the ball in his hands and is a terrific shooter (especially in the midrange game). Hall is kind of in between: not as athletic as Guy and Shayok, but not quite as skilled as Perrantes.

But those four are all very capable offensive players. To some degree, they appear to be restrained a bit by the system at UVa. Bennett seems to really want to avoid turnovers and transition opportunities, which plays against overly aggressive offensive play. Which plays against the strengths of Shayok and Guy for sure.

But I agree: it's hard to watch UVa on offense. Even when they are good, it's not "fun" to watch. Defensively, they are terrific, in large part because the system is good and in large part because the players are experienced and often good. The freshmen just don't typically get much run for Bennett (Perrantes is a rare exception). Bennett's teams are always loaded with 3- and 4-year guys, with the 1- and 2-year guys playing smaller roles.

I've only watched UVA Thrice this year and Guy played poorly in all three games. He takes and misses a lot of difficult shots from what I've seen. I've heard announcers say he's a scorer but I just haven't seen it.

CDu
02-16-2017, 08:45 PM
I've only watched UVA Thrice this year and Guy played poorly in all three games. He takes and misses a lot of difficult shots from what I've seen. I've heard announcers say he's a scorer but I just haven't seen it.

Guy is shooting 48% on 3s, 44% on 2s, and averaging 7.6 points per 17.4 minutes. He may have had bad games in the three games you saw, but he is and has been a really good offensive player.

Troublemaker
02-17-2017, 05:21 AM
Collins and Bilas did a good job addressing the very high PNR Duke was repeatedly running in the 2nd half, but let's take a second look anyway. It's fun when the shoe is on the other foot and the opposing D is having trouble with Duke's PNR.

One thing to note is that towards the beginning of the half, the PNR ball-handler (usually Luke, who took over point b/c Grayson had re-sprained his ankle) had complete disinterest in driving. The PNR ball-handler was just a decoy; Duke's interest was to have UVA hard hedge and then move the ball to take advantage of the spacing that both the hedge and the roll by Duke's big man created. In other words, the PNR ball-handler became a pass-only position at first.

Duke started the half with a very high PNR. High-resolution version (https://gfycat.com/ThoughtfulRepentantKusimanse). Perrantes has to help on Amile's roll, and then Matt was able to attack his closeout. Because we ran the PNR so high, Luke's defender Hall was a non-factor to help on Matt's decisive, immediate drive; that's very un-PackLine like to not have perimeter defenders available to cut off the drive. AND the UVA big man Salt was still retreating with his back turned when Matt started the drive, another side effect of running it very high. Thankfully, Matt was able to finish.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ThoughtfulRepentantKusimanse-size_restricted.gif

Troublemaker
02-17-2017, 05:31 AM
Even though this is a side PNR with Matt, the concept is the same. High-res version (https://gfycat.com/UnknownForcefulBichonfrise). He has no intention of driving. He just waits for UVA to come hedge, and then Duke attacks with its passing. Amile's roll sucked in the weakside defender covering Jayson, and Grayson makes a good skip pass to Jayson for the wide-open three.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/UnknownForcefulBichonfrise-size_restricted.gif

Troublemaker
02-17-2017, 05:48 AM
We ran it almost every trip down the court. I'm only showing a few examples. Here's one with Grayson as the PNR ball-handler. High-res version (https://gfycat.com/BestDaringGangesdolphin). Look how high this is run! Grayson passes to the wing Matt, who makes the entry pass into the paint. Harry gets fouled. That's pretty offense. Harry rolls down the left side of the lane, so the weakside help almost certainly can't contest this entry pass and will end up on Harry's back. Matt actually had options on this play. He could've skipped it to Jayson for a wide-open three as well.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/BestDaringGangesdolphin-size_restricted.gif

Troublemaker
02-17-2017, 06:00 AM
Towards the middle of the half, UVA's players began playing Duke's tendency to pass from the PNR ball-handler position. This opened up the drive. On this play (high-res version (https://gfycat.com/DecisiveOpenEthiopianwolf)), Luke's defender Hall was playing the pass as much as the drive. So Luke makes a beautiful pivot and drives him and gets 2 free throws out of it.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DecisiveOpenEthiopianwolf-size_restricted.gif

Troublemaker
02-17-2017, 06:12 AM
Similar to the above, here Luke uses a pass-fake to get the defender Shayok off-balance to begin his drive. High-res version (https://gfycat.com/AshamedSnarlingBluetickcoonhound). If he were guarding mere mortals, Shayok actually did a nice job recovering, but here Luke doesn't let him escape the torture chamber. Finishes Shayok with a beautiful spin for a soft 2-pt mid-ranger.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AshamedSnarlingBluetickcoonhound-size_restricted.gif

That is all for now, folks. Time for another cup of coffee and to start my day.

MChambers
02-17-2017, 07:30 AM
Thanks for PNR explanations, Troublemaker!

BandAlum83
02-17-2017, 01:10 PM
Excellent posts and education, Troublemaker! (of course I can't Spork you)

ETA: I guess I've been promiscuous lately. I was able to spork you.

Duke76
02-17-2017, 09:17 PM
If you're talking about on the current roster, then yes, definitely.

I don't think they come close to top 5 all time though...

Maggette, Dahntay Jones, Gerald, MP1, and G. Hill rank ahead of them IMO.

no i am not talking about the current roster. I am talking about all time and I am talking about from a standing position going straight up for a rebound on either end. maybe it is their arm length plus their vertical jump....they just look on tv to be up there...said another way I'd like to see how high on the backboard they can touch from a standing position

Doria
02-18-2017, 08:11 AM
Thanks for PNR explanations, Troublemaker!

Yes, thank you! I was trying to explain the PNR to my roommate, but visuals definitely help (I was reduced to using household items to stand in for players; perhaps needless to say, it was less than enlightening to him).

davekay1971
02-18-2017, 08:55 AM
Excellent posts and education, Troublemaker! (of course I can't Spork you)

ETA: I guess I've been promiscuous lately. I was able to spork you.

Agreed. That was a great series of posts. I'm also being told to engage in promiscuous sporking before sporking Troublemaker again. Otherwise...yeah, you'd get a morning sporking.

Indoor66
02-18-2017, 12:03 PM
Agreed. That was a great series of posts. I'm also being told to engage in promiscuous sporking before sporking Troublemaker again. Otherwise...yeah, you'd get a morning sporking.

Nothing like sporking in the morning. Gets the day going in the right mood. :p:cool:

Wahoo2000
02-18-2017, 01:02 PM
Been without my macbook for a week (logic board failed), and my strong dislike of navigating/posting on a phone means I missed my favorite week of the year (leadup to the Duke/UVa game).

Now that things are back in working order, wanted to be sure to drop by and offer my congratulations on the win. You guys are moving in the right direction for sure. We're doing..... something else.

I've known since Nichols was suspended that we were probably in for a tough season (by our newly raised expectations due to performance over the last 3 years). Our junior class of Hall, Wilkins, Shayok, Thompson are just not quite what we need from a talent standpoint to beat the VERY best teams in the country. To maintain our level of play from recent years, one of those guys really needed to step up a la Harris/Anderson/Brogdon. Still, thanks to Bennett's outstanding coaching, we're better than MOST teams, and can compete with (if not beat) the truly elite teams.

I think the game with you guys came down to 2 things:
1 - Poor 3pt shooting. We have little/no inside presence offensively this season (again, thanks to Austin Nichols). We MUST make a good % of our 3pt attempts to win big games. We were shooting very well as a team (top 10 nationally) from deep into January, but have cooled off significantly lately. In our last six games, where we've gone 2-4, we are shooting 39-114 (34%) from deep. All of those losses are games that came down to 1-2 possessions, too.
2 - The move by K to run that PNR soooo very high. As far out as Duke was initiating that play, I think Bennett made a mistake by still having our bigs hedge so aggressively. It created too much of an advantage with the additional space. We should have allowed the on-ball defender to go under the screens at anything out near 30 feet and if Luke/Grayson/whoever was going to drain 33-35 footers, so be it. Instead, the additional space behind the play meant that when the screener slipped, you were basically running a "mini" 4-3 break to the basket. Hopefully we see some adjustment if we play you guys in the ACC tourney.

One bright spot for me was that Jerome, Diakite, and Guy were more than serviceable. I expect that with an offseason of S&C and the experience gained this year, those guys will form a formidable core moving forward for us. 2 guys redshirting right now too that I'd put on par with those 3. Better years ahead for my Hoos, I think.

At this point, I think the only thing limiting Duke from reaching the preseason potential is Allen and Giles really finding their groove and playing their best. IF they do, you could probably run roughshod over the field to a title. Even if they don't pick it up though, you're still going to be one of the top 10 teams in the mix (nationally, not ACC).

Last - the one bit of solace I'll take in the loss is that even despite our shortcomings, we forced Duke to convert very low % (by the stats) in crunchtime to beat us. Maybe someday, the Allens/Suliamons/Joneses/Tatums WON'T make huge dagger shots down the stretch to beat us........... :-(

OldPhiKap
02-18-2017, 01:13 PM
Been without my macbook for a week (logic board failed), and my strong dislike of navigating/posting on a phone means I missed my favorite week of the year (leadup to the Duke/UVa game).

Now that things are back in working order, wanted to be sure to drop by and offer my congratulations on the win. You guys are moving in the right direction for sure. We're doing.... something else.

I've known since Nichols was suspended that we were probably in for a tough season (by our newly raised expectations due to performance over the last 3 years). Our junior class of Hall, Wilkins, Shayok, Thompson are just not quite what we need from a talent standpoint to beat the VERY best teams in the country. To maintain our level of play from recent years, one of those guys really needed to step up a la Harris/Anderson/Brogdon. Still, thanks to Bennett's outstanding coaching, we're better than MOST teams, and can compete with (if not beat) the truly elite teams.

I think the game with you guys came down to 2 things:
1 - Poor 3pt shooting. We have little/no inside presence offensively this season (again, thanks to Austin Nichols). We MUST make a good % of our 3pt attempts to win big games. We were shooting very well as a team (top 10 nationally) from deep into January, but have cooled off significantly lately. In our last six games, where we've gone 2-4, we are shooting 39-114 (34%) from deep. All of those losses are games that came down to 1-2 possessions, too.
2 - The move by K to run that PNR soooo very high. As far out as Duke was initiating that play, I think Bennett made a mistake by still having our bigs hedge so aggressively. It created too much of an advantage with the additional space. We should have allowed the on-ball defender to go under the screens at anything out near 30 feet and if Luke/Grayson/whoever was going to drain 33-35 footers, so be it. Instead, the additional space behind the play meant that when the screener slipped, you were basically running a "mini" 4-3 break to the basket. Hopefully we see some adjustment if we play you guys in the ACC tourney.

One bright spot for me was that Jerome, Diakite, and Guy were more than serviceable. I expect that with an offseason of S&C and the experience gained this year, those guys will form a formidable core moving forward for us. 2 guys redshirting right now too that I'd put on par with those 3. Better years ahead for my Hoos, I think.

At this point, I think the only thing limiting Duke from reaching the preseason potential is Allen and Giles really finding their groove and playing their best. IF they do, you could probably run roughshod over the field to a title. Even if they don't pick it up though, you're still going to be one of the top 10 teams in the mix (nationally, not ACC).

Last - the one bit of solace I'll take in the loss is that even despite our shortcomings, we forced Duke to convert very low % (by the stats) in crunchtime to beat us. Maybe someday, the Allens/Suliamons/Joneses/Tatums WON'T make huge dagger shots down the stretch to beat us....... :-(

We're all pulling for you tonight in Chapel Hill!

Wahoo2000
02-18-2017, 01:20 PM
That said... I hate to rain on the parade but it is now an obvious pattern and plan to play Bolden in the first half only unless someone kidnaps Amile and Harry, and to only sub Frank in for Grayson. Even though he played great tonight, if Amile doesn't pick up the quick 4th foul, I don't think Giles sees the floor in the 2nd half. I do not understand it and I do not agree with it, but the GOAT has 1000+ more wins than me. Why we aren't interchanging the 4 of Grayson, Matt, Luke, Frank in the 3 slots (PG/Wing/Wing) the entire game, getting ea of them x amount of rest the entire game, and likewise interchanging the 4 of Amile, Tatum, Harry, Bolden for the 2 spots (PF-Stretch Forward/Center) the entire game, getting ea of them x amount of rest the entire game is just baffling to me. I don't find it necessary for Luke, Matt, and Tatum to play every single second of every single second half of games. We have a tremendous amount of talent. Chase, Vrank, Javin, and Jack would get minutes on a lot of ACC teams imo. Bolden would be a starter on most ACC teams imo.


I hate being Debbie Downer here, as tonight was a huge win and the guys are now playing Top 10 Level basketball, but in my humble opinion, the current formula will not get us an ACC Tournament Championship and will not get us a Regional Championship to make the Final 4. It will get us a lot of wins, probably a top 4 finish in ACC Regular Season, a semi-finals appearance in the ACC Tournament, and a Sweet 16 appearance with collective fatigue ending our run in all 3 of those competitions.

Regarding the bolded portion, I agree that the short bench and heavy minutes are likely a huge factor in Duke's lack of an ACC tournament championships over the last few years. If you're going to have to play a minimum of 3 games in 3 days, with at least 2 games likely vs top-shelf competition, you just aren't going to be successful playing multiple guys 33+ minutes. By the time you get to the title game, those guys are going to be a little drained.

I'd disagree with the assertion that it would keep the team from making a run in the NCAA's though - with a caveat: guys can probably be around 33-35 min with only one day of rest (and then a 3-5 day rest before moving to regionals/ff), but maybe not 37-40 min. Still, even with only playing Jackson about 5 min, and Bolden about 5, nobody else should have to be over 35ish min. I think a recipe for success for Duke in the NCAAs would be to have Allen/Kennard/Jones all around 32-33mpg each and the remainder of backcourt/wing min made up by Jackson (5) and Tatum (about 5-7 on the wing). The 80 frontcourt minutes can be split between Jefferson/Tatum (about 28-30 min each), Giles (about 15-18 min), and Bolden (5 min).

I absolutely think Duke could also be successful playing Jackson a little more and lightening the burden on Allen/Kennard/Jones. Don't really think you need Bolden as much though, especially as Giles continues to improve and Tatum plays a bulk of his time at the 4.

Kedsy
02-18-2017, 04:04 PM
Regarding the bolded portion, I agree that the short bench and heavy minutes are likely a huge factor in Duke's lack of an ACC tournament championships over the last few years. If you're going to have to play a minimum of 3 games in 3 days, with at least 2 games likely vs top-shelf competition, you just aren't going to be successful playing multiple guys 33+ minutes. By the time you get to the title game, those guys are going to be a little drained.

Not sure I agree with this. Here are Duke's top five minute-getters in each game for our last five ACC championships:

2011:
39,38,31,31,24
39,39,36,26,22
39,39,33,28,27

2010:
38,37,32,27,19
39,38,31,28,26
39,38,30,28,23

2009
40,39,36,25,22
40,37,33,30,23
40,38,38,25,19

2006
40,38,32,29,27
36,35,34,39,38
37,37,32,25,22

2005
36,32,31,29,24
40,39,33,30,24
40,38,37,36,24

14 of the 15 games (all wins, obviously) had multiple Duke players logging 33+ minutes (and the only exception had a 36 and a 32 in the first Duke game of the 2005 ACCT). In fact, in 13 of the 15 games, we had multiple guys playing 37+ minutes. So I don't think it's the high mpg that's been keeping Duke from winning ACC tournaments recently.

Highlander
02-20-2017, 02:46 PM
To be fair, UVa's 21 fouls was inflated by the foul fest at the end. UVa had just 13 fouls with 1:36 to go in the game, but fouled us 8 times (3 times just to get into the bonus, and then 5 more times after that).

Of course, both teams committed way more than 12/13 fouls in the game. The officials were just letting them play so to speak.

That's true, but subtract out all those fouls and Duke is still lower, albeit by only one. My point is really a gripe that the announcer's never commented once on DUKE'S ability to "play without fouling," while I heard that comment at least 3-4 separate times on UVA. Even if you subtract all of UVA's intentional fouls, Duke still was called for fewer.

And the officials certainly did let everyone play, except for Amile Jefferson. I probably said "moving screen" an average of 2 times per offensive possession for UVA.