I forgot how good the 99 team was

[niveklaen]

http://kenpom.com/blog/gonzaga-is-smashing-the-wcc-harder-than-it-usually-does/

Our 1999 team may loose its top spot in the record books for conference victory margin average to Gonzaga. (Even though the ACC was down that year, I suspect that they were a good bit stronger than this years WCC...)

That team won its conference games by an average of 24 pts!!!

The final 4 loss colors our/my memory making it easy to forget that this team may very well have been Duke's best team ever.

[rsvman]

I never forgot. That team was a steamroller! Up until the final game, of course. :(

My eldest son turned 6 in November of 99', so he turned 5 during that season. He had to go to bed long before the games were over. Every morning after a game he'd ask what happened. I'd always say "We lost," to which he would reply, "Really?" and I would say, "No. I was just kidding. We won by 25 (or whatever the point spread happened to be)."

The morning after the national championship game he asked the same question, and I gave the same answer. He asked "Really?" and I had to say "Yes. I'm not kidding this time. We really lost."

I guess he realized I was telling the truth and, further, could tell how sad I was, because the next thing he said was (and I'll never forget this): "It's OK, Daddy. It's just a game." I can still hear that sweet little voice. It put things in a better perspective for me.


Still, that team just bulldozed through the conference. Truly an unbelievably talented team.

[jv001]

http://kenpom.com/blog/gonzaga-is-smashing-the-wcc-harder-than-it-usually-does/

Our 1999 team may loose its top spot in the record books for conference victory margin average to Gonzaga. (Even though the ACC was down that year, I suspect that they were a good bit stronger than this years WCC...)

That team won its conference games by an average of 24 pts!!!

The final 4 loss colors our/my memory making it easy to forget that this team may very well have been Duke's best team ever.

The 1992 team would have a say on that subject. GoDuke!

[OldPhiKap]

The final 4 loss colors our/my memory making it easy to forget that this team may very well have been Duke's best team ever.

Perhaps the most dominant against its competition, but not sure it was the best Duke team ever. The '92 team was bad to the bone.

I'm glad we had both, so I don't have to worry about which was better!

[Indoor66]

Perhaps the most dominant against its competition, but not sure it was the best Duke team ever. The '92 team was bad to the bone.

I'm glad we had both, so I don't have to worry about which was better!

Don't forget the 1965-66 team.

[Billy Dat]

I'll never forget...having become a Duke fan upon matriculation in 1990, that was my very favorite Duke squad, and still is, because I was/am a huge Elton Brand fan. That team would have gone down as one of the greatest of all time. Funny how the UConn team that beat us, and finished with only 2 losses, isn't held in as high esteem. The 2001 win took the sting out a bit, but I also love Carrawell and he missed out on that one, too.

[OldPhiKap]

Don't forget the 1965-66 team.

Gotta admit -- I'm going on second-hand stories for that team. Would love to see extended film.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

http://kenpom.com/blog/gonzaga-is-smashing-the-wcc-harder-than-it-usually-does/

Our 1999 team may loose its top spot in the record books for conference victory margin average to Gonzaga. (Even though the ACC was down that year, I suspect that they were a good bit stronger than this years WCC...)

That team won its conference games by an average of 24 pts!!!

The final 4 loss colors our/my memory making it easy to forget that this team may very well have been Duke's best team ever.

Some of us do our best to try and forget the end of that season, but I can't forget how friggin talented that group was.

Amazing that before this season started, some prognosticators were saying this year's team could rival that squad.

[Nugget]

the 1999 team was definitely great, but I think their numbers were inflated by some historically lousy competition in the ACC (and I think the 86, 92, and 01 teams, and the 98 team with a healthy Brand, would have had pretty much the same results).

Besides Duke, only 2 other ACC teams made the NCAAs that year:

Maryland (with Steve Francis, Terence Morris, Obinna Ekezie and Laron Profit) was very good (went 28-6, 13-3 and was ranked in the Top 7 all season, but fragile - taken down in NCAA 2nd round by St. John's.

And Carolina (Ademola Okulaja beating himself, Ed Cota and Soph Brendan Haywood) was ok (24-10, 10-6, ranked around 10-15 all season) -- but lost in the 1st round to Weber St.

And, that's it. No one else in the ACC had a winning conference record or even a 500 record. No one else made the tournament. Clemson was ranked for a couple of weeks before fading to 20-15, 5-11.

Duke, UNC and Maryland took up 10 of the 15 spots on the three All-ACC teams.

The other 5 guys who made one of the All-ACC teams were: Terrell McIntyre (Clemson), Jason Collier (Ga Tech), Robert O’Kelley (Wake), Ron Hale (Fla St.), and Chris Williams (Virginia).

That's pretty grim.

[subzero02]

Some of us do our best to try and forget the end of that season, but I can't forget how friggin talented that group was.

Amazing that before this season started, some prognosticators were saying this year's team could rival that squad.

The 99 squad was ridiculous... I will never forget watching us demolish Florida in Cameron... Maggette!!

[Olympic Fan]

the 1999 team was definitely great, but I think their numbers were inflated by some historically lousy competition in the ACC (and I think the 86, 92, and 01 teams, and the 98 team with a healthy Brand, would have had pretty much the same results).



Maybe, but the ACC was the No. 1 rated RPI conference in 1999 ... and Duke has the No. 3 SOS:

http://www.basketballprospectus.com/rpi.php?y=1999

Worth noting that Duke beat No. 2 RPI Michigan State twice in 1999, along with two wins over No. 4 Maryland, three wins over No. 7 UNC and single wins over No. 8 St John's and No. 10 Kentucky. That's nine wins over the top 10 RPI teams ... it also won 26 games against the top 100 IN THE REGULAR SEASON! Add three top 50 wins in the NCAA and the '99 Devils won 29 of 37 games against top 100 opponents.

Don't denigrate the '99 team. One more play against UConn, and many would rate them the best team in modern times.

[jv001]

Maybe, but the ACC was the No. 1 rated RPI conference in 1999 ... and Duke has the No. 3 SOS:

http://www.basketballprospectus.com/rpi.php?y=1999

Worth noting that Duke beat No. 2 RPI Michigan State twice in 1999, along with two wins over No. 4 Maryland, three wins over No. 7 UNC and single wins over No. 8 St John's and No. 10 Kentucky. That's nine wins over the top 10 RPI teams ... it also won 26 games against the top 100 IN THE REGULAR SEASON! Add three top 50 wins in the NCAA and the '99 Devils won 29 of 37 games against top 100 opponents.

Don't denigrate the '99 team. One more play against UConn, and many would rate them the best team in modern times.

We were robbed. The refs were bigger thieves than Jesse James ever was and I don't usually blame the refs. GoDuke!

[fuse]

1999...origin of platooning (?).
Weak competition or not, my memory says the most dominant Duke team up until the bitter end.

[CDu]

1999...origin of platooning (?).
Weak competition or not, my memory says the most dominant Duke team up until the bitter end.

The 1999 team didn't platoon. We played a 7.5 man rotation in games that mattered: Avery, Langdon, Carrawell, Battier, Brand, Burgess, Maggette. James was the 8th man. Domzalski got in mainly in blowouts and played less than 300 minutes. Four starters played 30+ minutes per game, with Battier and Maggette combining for a bit over 40 minutes per game at the 5th spot.

The 1998 team was deeper, with Wojo, Langdon, Carrawell, McLeod, Brand, Avery, Chapel, Battier, and Burgess, with Domzalski getting time while Brand was out and Price getting minutes when he returned from suspension.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

So tonight was the first night of spring practice for my son's AAU team in Durham. I was sitting watching his team warm up and who should sit down three feet away from me but Mr. Badass himself, Nate James. Pretty cool.

[JasonEvans]

The 1999 team didn't platoon. We played a 7.5 man rotation in games that mattered: Avery, Langdon, Carrawell, Battier, Brand, Burgess, Maggette. James was the 8th man. Domzalski got in mainly in blowouts and played less than 300 minutes.

Virginia would have built a monument to Taymon Domzalski if he had been on their team.

--Jason "RIP Pete Gillen" Evans

P.S. - I have seen every single one of K's teams... and I am convinced 1999 was the best team of the bunch. They ate the souls of the opposition. I am certain that almost every team we played knew they were going to lose before the ball had even been jumped. Yes, they were better than 1992.

[Tripping William]

Virginia would have built a monument to Taymon Domzalski if he had been on their team.

--Jason "RIP Pete Gillen" Evans

P.S. - I have seen every single one of K's teams... and I am convinced 1999 was the best team of the bunch. They ate the souls of the opposition. I am certain that almost every team we played knew they were going to lose before the ball had even been jumped. Yes, they were better than 1992.

I have only seen from '86 forward, but I agree with you. FWIW. Damned Ricky Moore.

[KandG]

P.S. - I have seen every single one of K's teams... and I am convinced 1999 was the best team of the bunch. They ate the souls of the opposition. I am certain that almost every team we played knew they were going to lose before the ball had even been jumped. Yes, they were better than 1992.

I saw that 1999 team play twice in person and that was one of the most ridiculously formidable college teams I've ever watched play. I remember people talking about 99 Duke during the regular season the way people talk currently about the Warriors in the NBA: like a team that was too unfairly talented relative to the rest of the field.

I even set the VCR to tape the one hour pre-game show on ESPN prior to the championship game, and the one thing that did give me pause is how the analysts spent 99.5 percent of the discussion on what that Duke team's place in history would be. I thought Duke was favored over UConn, but living in New England, I felt people were sleeping on that UConn team a bit much. The ESPN show was ridiculous in the way it dismissed their chances, so much so that I actually saved the recording for years after the bitter Duke loss because I wanted a reminder of how badly pundits could be wrong in proclaiming a champion prematurely.

That championship game hurt, but I still think 1999 Duke was the best Duke team -- and the best college team along with 2015 Kentucky -- never to win it all.

[duke4ever19]

The 99 squad was ridiculous... I will never forget watching us demolish Florida in Cameron... Maggette!!

Yes! One of my favorite games.
For anyone that needs to be reminded what a juggernaut that team was, the Florida game can be found on youtube (in case the link I provide below is not allowed).

Final score was 116-86. Be forewarned, Len Elmore is one of the announcers.
Also, Teddy Dupay on Florida. Wasn't he the guy that shoved one of our players in the tournament loss the next year?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lk5S5Cyk4hc

[brevity]

Virginia would have built a monument to Taymon Domzalski if he had been on their team.

--Jason "RIP Pete Gillen" Evans

Pete Gillen is still alive. He's in the studio for the CBS Sports Network. Still looks like a bloated Kenneth Branagh. Are you thinking of that other coach that left Xavier for the ACC, Skip Prosser?

[jwillfan]

I am convinced 1999 was the best team of the bunch. They ate the souls of the opposition. I am certain that almost every team we played knew they were going to lose before the ball had even been jumped. Yes, they were better than 1992.

I have to concur, having watched since early 80s. That team was so dominant. I looked for but could not find one of my fav memories, when we beat UNC in our 16-0 ACC season (I used to have the t-shirt) when Corey Maggette broke Jason Capel's ankles for a dunk, slapped the backboard and got a T. Totally worth it. And he was the 6th man, and a freshman. I went to see them play in the NCAA 2nd round I think in Charlotte and they smoked Tulsa by 41 (coached by Bill Self) and Maggette had a dunk where he I swear was at the top of the backboard. I did find this video of a dunk earlier in the season vs Florida though - enjoy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLsuG9dCckE

Always wonder 'what if' re that final...Ricky Moore had the game of his life in the first half to keep them in it. Always felt the worst for Trajan as it fell to him when we really should haven't been in that situation.

[duketaylor]

1999 was an amazing team and the FF was my one-and-only-to-date one I attended Vividly remember how we had a chance to win it and how I've criticized K over the years for the final sequence. Still not sure why. Made no sense to me then or since. Sorry, fans can have opinions.

[lifelongdevil]

1999 was an amazing team and the FF was my one-and-only-to-date one I attended Vividly remember how we had a chance to win it and how I've criticized K over the years for the final sequence. Still not sure why. Made no sense to me then or since. Sorry, fans can have opinions.

...or canceling the shoot around that morning before the title game in a dome. You can tell I'm totally over that loss. Best Duke team I've ever seen.


Amazed we have made it this far in the thread without someone saying that name, so I'll rip the band aid off: Khalid El-Amin.

[subzero02]

...or canceling the shoot around that morning before the title game in a dome. You can tell I'm totally over that loss. Best Duke team I've ever seen.


Amazed we have made it this far in the thread without someone saying that name, so I'll rip the band aid off: Khalid El-Amin.

That's the first I've heard about the shoot around being canceled. I live in the Tampa area and have been to Tropicana field a number of times; I can't imagine playing basketball in that dump. Any extra shooting would've helped IMO. Maybe K wanted to give the team extra rest after a tough game with MSU on Saturday night.

I still say the keys to the game were Ricky Moore completely shutting down Avery as a scorer( the 2 were high school teammates and the senior Moore knew how to shutdown the sophomore Avery)
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1999-03-29/sports/9903290036_1_ricky-moore-avery-moore-worked and Brand not having more of an impact on the offensive end. We didn't go to Brand often enough and when we did, Voskuhl hacked the heck out of him without a call (it was lebron/Shaq bad).



I looked at the box score and the argument could be made that Avery outplayed El-Amin... that's not how I remember it though, not even close.

Avery.. 3fg 12fga 11pts 5ast 1to
El-Amin.. 5fg 12fga 12pts 4ast 6to

[moonpie23]

this thread bums me out....


:(


oh, yeah.....boozer was fouled...

[SenatorClayDavis]

People undersell that UConn team. If memory serves, the Syracuse loss was played without Hamilton and Voskuhl. In the Miami loss, both were hurt but I think they played. Could not find box scores to confirm.

That 99 Duke team was a joy to watch.

[Gooch]

Never forget driving home from a watch party in Manchester, CT where my wife and I were the only ones rooting for Duke (she's also an alum). There was one of those electronic construction signs celebrating UConn's first (men's) championship. Nearly drove off the road. The next few weeks were miserable as all the bandwagon UConn fans came out of the woodwork...that team was amazing!

[Blue KevIL]

People undersell that UConn team. If memory serves, the Syracuse loss was played without Hamilton and Voskuhl. In the Miami loss, both were hurt but I think they played. Could not find box scores to confirm.

That 99 Duke team was a joy to watch.

UConn '99 actually spent more weeks ranked #1 (10) than Duke did that year (8).

[Blue KevIL]

The 1992 team would have a say on that subject. GoDuke!

As much as I loved the '99 squad, I would agree that '92 was likely a better team.

Right after the 1999 season -- after having watched every game -- I watched a number of the 1992 games while recording copies for a friend.
So, with 1999 very fresh on my mind at the time, I was struck by the extra's (confidence, swagger, moxy, toughness) that the 1992 squad had which the 1999 squad couldn't match. That would have made for one heck of a game: 1992 vs 1999.

Makes me want to revisit the games of the 1999 team in the offseason.

[Pomona]

Good and Bad Memories

I was at the Final Four via Iron Dukes. Arrived at Tropicana Stadium and sat miles from the court in distant view seats. Oh well I thought, I am here in person. Boring first game and then CRAZINESS. Didn't know until Duke players come out for warm ups that I was in the last row of alumni and immediately in front of the students. They cheered like we were court side. They are standing when the game starts and other people yell for them to sit. The cheer starts "we don't sit". Security arrives and the chant becomes "Arrest us all". Students yell at Alumni "up in front" rather than the normal complaint you hear at games"down in front". First time out alumni stand to stretch our legs and students sit. Time out over, alumni sit and students stand. Saturday celebration and everyone says see you Monday. We were so confident. Monday's NC game ended so quickly. Few timeouts and we were all so stunned that it was over. I remember it like it just happened today.

The bad. Lots of rumors that I believe that players were seen out at night all weekend partying. Obviously many players left duke early that season and I believe the distractions were a factor.

[Atlanta Duke]

I have to concur, having watched since early 80s. That team was so dominant. I looked for but could not find one of my fav memories, when we beat UNC in our 16-0 ACC season (I used to have the t-shirt) when Corey Maggette broke Jason Capel's ankles for a dunk, slapped the backboard and got a T. Totally worth it. And he was the 6th man, and a freshman.

Agreed Maggette coming off the bench was one example of how dominant that team was.

FWIW I think this is the play at Chapel Hill you remember

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhvnTWKHwrU

[Reisen]

Wait, are we saying the 99' team couldn't match the 92' team's confidence, swagger, and moxy?

I'm biased because I was a student during the 99' season and got to go to every home game. But to me, the 99 team was the better, deeper team, with better players. I "like" the 92 (and the 01) teams better; those guys stayed longer, produced better results (both that year and in their other years), etc. The 99' team was the beginning of the mercenaries.

But to watch the product on the court, I am pretty convinced the 99 team was better. Even with multiple NCs (and very good teams), I have seen nothing like it since. They were the complete package, and the Warriors / 2015 Kentucky references are good ones.

[Blue KevIL]

Wait, are we saying the 99' team couldn't match the 92' team's confidence, swagger, and moxy?

Not "we" but "me" -- I'm just stating my opinion from my recall of a binge viewing of a handful of 92's games right after watching the whole 99 season as it happened.

[FadedTackyShirt]

I'll never forget...having become a Duke fan upon matriculation in 1990, that was my very favorite Duke squad, and still is, because I was/am a huge Elton Brand fan. That team would have gone down as one of the greatest of all time. Funny how the UConn team that beat us, and finished with only 2 losses, isn't held in as high esteem. The 2001 win took the sting out a bit, but I also love Carrawell and he missed out on that one, too.

Sincerely hope Brand eventually finishes his degree. Best non-retired jersey player ever.

[Edouble]

Sincerely hope Brand eventually finishes his degree. Best non-retired jersey player ever.

Bob Verga says hello!

[CDu]

I think it is a tough call between '92 and '99. The '92 team had Laettner (really good, borderline all-star player before injuries), Hill (one of the 5 best players in the game before injuries), Hurley (great PG, hard to say how good a pro he would have been due to the auto accident), and Parks (solid NBA regular, borderline starter for several years, but just a freshman at Duke). Lang was a fringe NBA guy. The rest of the team (THill, Davis) were very good college players but not really NBA guys.

The 1999 team had Brand (a bit below Hill at his peak before injuries), Maggette (comparable to Laettner before injuries, but a freshman at the time at Duke), Battier (solid NBA starter for years), Avery (1st round pick but flunked out in the NBA), and Langdon (NBA regular when healthy, but injuries sent him to Europe where he was a superstar). Carrawell, James, and Burgess were solid college players but not NBA caliber.

I would have loved to have seen that battle. Battier vs Hill. Laettner versus Brand. Langdon vs THill. Hurley vs Avery. I think the 1992 team would have had a big advantage at PG. The Hill vs Battier matchup would have been fascinating, as would the Brand vs Laettner matchup. I think the SG edge goes decidedly to 1999, as does the bench.

Would have been a really fun game to watch.

[Wander]

You know what would be great? If there was a Duke team that could settle this debate because they accomplished everything a Duke team could possibly accomplish other than going undefeated. National championship, ACC tournament championship, ACC regular season championship, #1 seed, winning the early season tournament, undefeated at home, and sweeping UNC.

[Blue KevIL]

I think it is a tough call between '92 and '99. The '92 team had Laettner (really good, borderline all-star player before injuries), Hill (one of the 5 best players in the game before injuries), Hurley (great PG, hard to say how good a pro he would have been due to the auto accident), and Parks (solid NBA regular, borderline starter for several years, but just a freshman at Duke). Lang was a fringe NBA guy. The rest of the team (THill, Davis) were very good college players but not really NBA guys.

The 1999 team had Brand (a bit below Hill at his peak before injuries), Maggette (comparable to Laettner before injuries, but a freshman at the time at Duke), Battier (solid NBA starter for years), Avery (1st round pick but flunked out in the NBA), and Langdon (NBA regular when healthy, but injuries sent him to Europe where he was a superstar). Carrawell, James, and Burgess were solid college players but not NBA caliber.

I would have loved to have seen that battle. Battier vs Hill. Laettner versus Brand. Langdon vs THill. Hurley vs Avery. I think the 1992 team would have had a big advantage at PG. The Hill vs Battier matchup would have been fascinating, as would the Brand vs Laettner matchup. I think the SG edge goes decidedly to 1999, as does the bench.

Would have been a really fun game to watch.

My opinion was based on the two teams as they were in 92 and 99 not the players as they would be in future years in college or as a pro.
Grant '92 vs Shane '99 is a fascinating matchup but not nearly as fascinating as Grant '94 vs Shane '01 could be.

An embarrassment of riches as a fan to even have a discussion like this.

One thing 99 had that 92 did not have: The Triple Crown over UNCheat

[Olympic Fan]

One difference between '92 and '99 was health.

The '92 team was plagued by injuries all season. It started when Laettner missed the opener. Parks missed a number of games. Bobby Hurley famously broke his foot at UNC and missed five games after that. He returned just as Grant Hill was sidelined with an ankle injury and missed three games (and came off the bench in postseason). Lang missed two games. The only regular who played all 36 games was Brian Davis -- and he suffered a severely sprained ankle in the NCAA semifinals and only made a token appearance in the title game.

The '99 team was relatively healthy -- six guys played all 39 games. Langdon sprained his ankle late and sat out the ACC Tournament (actually he could have played, but Duke was so dominant, it wasn't worth risking further injury). A bout of flu swept through the team in Alaska, but only Battier missed any games.

In hindsight, the Hurley injury played a huge role in the '92 team's two losses (he played the second half at UNC with a broken foot and missed the Wake game). Otherwise, the team overcame every other physical issue.

The '99 team's 77-75 loss to Cincinnati in Alaska was probably impacted by the illness of several players (although every rotation player saw action in that game, even Battier played 16 minute and he had missed the two previous games). But I don't recall any physical issues for the UConn loss.

My personal opinion is that the '99 team was the more dominant team, but in the end, it didn't win. For what it achieved and what it overcame, the 1992 team is the greatest team in Duke history.

[Troublemaker]

'92 over '99 for a very simple reason: '92 had won a championship already the year before.

So '92 had great talent, experience, and chemistry AND all the confidence and savvy that comes from being a champion. They would win a 7-game series against '99, and they would perform better in a mythical tournament consisting of all-time great NCAA teams. (UCLA '68 would win that one.)

[vick]

You know what would be great? If there was a Duke team that could settle this debate because they accomplished everything a Duke team could possibly accomplish other than going undefeated. National championship, ACC tournament championship, ACC regular season championship, #1 seed, winning the early season tournament, undefeated at home, and sweeping UNC.

Clever. 2010 insanely underrated, even by Duke fans--no, not in the same class as '99 or '92 (or '01), but a hell of a lot better than they get credit for.

[Tom B.]

Clever. 2010 insanely underrated, even by Duke fans--no, not in the same class as '99 or '92 (or '01), but a hell of a lot better than they get credit for.

Not bad for a team that was alarmingly unathletic.

[WiJoe]

...or canceling the shoot around that morning before the title game in a dome. You can tell I'm totally over that loss. Best Duke team I've ever seen.


Amazed we have made it this far in the thread without someone saying that name, so I'll rip the band aid off: Khalid El-Amin.

Dope-smoking punk

[WiJoe]

I was at both title games.

'92 team won NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP.

'99 team (which also lost in classic fashion to Cincinnati at Great Alaska Shootout), did NOT win NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP.

'92 > '99.

[Devilwin]

Don't forget the 1965-66 team.

I recall that team. Mike Lewis, Bob Verga, Jack Marin, Bob Riedy, Steve Vacendak, Ron Wendelin, Tim Kolodziej, and other good ones. Finshed 26-4, 12-2, ACC.
Made it to Final Four, where they lost in the semis when super guard Bob Verga came down with a bad case of flu. Lost by four to UK. Great team, I recall them well, even though I was a kid. If Verga had not became ill, I believe we'd have won it all.

[fuse]

Virginia would have built a monument to Taymon Domzalski if he had been on their team.

--Jason "RIP Pete Gillen" Evans

P.S. - I have seen every single one of K's teams... and I am convinced 1999 was the best team of the bunch. They ate the souls of the opposition. I am certain that almost every team we played knew they were going to lose before the ball had even been jumped. Yes, they were better than 1992.

Not that Jason Evans needs it, cosigned.

I've not seen all of K's teams (since 1989-90 for me). How 1999 steamrolled through their season is how I dream about every basketball season for Duke. To be on point, 1999 is how I envisioned this season based on preseason prognostication.

Maybe one day I'll learn. :rolleyes:
How many other teams had a player like Elton Brand, who when asked about Burgess committing and if he was worried about playing time, responded along the lines of "they better be worried about me".

1999 took the swagger 1992 had, and amplified it.
I am often wrong, never in doubt- 1999 was collectively the best talent ever to wear Duke uniforms.

[throatybeard]

That 1999 team was on TV more than Leave It To Beaver...reruns.

[jwillfan]

Agreed Maggette coming off the bench was one example of how dominant that team was.

FWIW I think this is the play at Chapel Hill you remember

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhvnTWKHwrU

Good find!

[subzero02]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9kSnzrPjQrg

A comment in another thread made me think of this commercial from the 99 NCAA tourney promotion. Undoubtedly one of my favorite commercials ever.

[House P]

The Simple Rating System (http://www.sports-reference.com/blog/2015/03/srs-calculation-details/) (SRS) is far from a perfect metric, but it is usually a pretty good indicator of the relative strength of a team. Sports-reference.com lists the SRS of every college basketball team since 1950.

Of the 17,159 NCAA Division 1 teams since 1950, wanna take a guess which one has the highest SRS rating? The title of this thread provides a pretty good hint.

Others have mentioned that the ACC wasn't particularly strong in 1999. Other than Duke, only Maryland and UNC were top 25 caliber teams. However, Duke made up for a relatively weak ACC by playing a very challenging non-conference schedule. In the regular season, Duke played 9 non-conference games against teams which ended up in the SRS top 100, including 5 games against top 20 SRS teams. Add in the NCAA tourney games, and Duke played 8 non-conference games against top 20 SRS teams.

Including conference games, Duke played a total of 13 games against the SRS top 20. Duke went 11-2 in these games with an average scoring margin of +12.6. I doubt you will find many teams in NCAA history who played more than 10 games against top 20 competition and ended up with a scoring margin of +10 or higher in these games.

Duke also played a total of 17 games against teams who finished with an SRS ranking of 21-100. Duke won all 17 of these games by an average margin of 28.9 points.

Altogether, Duke was 28-2 with an average scoring margin of +21.8 against top 100 SRS teams.

[Billy Dat]

Another aspect of 1999 that is underrated is that it represented the culmination of the comeback of the program after K's medical hiatus in 1994-95. It also was a simpler time before the Duke Hatred Tsunami phenomenon had fully taken over which seemed to kick into gear right after, fueled by the Maryland rivalry.

[jv001]

Another aspect of 1999 that is underrated is that it represented the culmination of the comeback of the program after K's medical hiatus in 1994-95. It also was a simpler time before the Duke Hatred Tsunami phenomenon had fully taken over which seemed to kick into gear right after, fueled by the Maryland rivalry.

And Billy Packer with all his Duke get's all the calls. The '99 team was a great team and was fun to watch. GoDuke!

[Troublemaker]

Re: 99 vs 92

My starters comparison:




1992
> or <
1999


PG
Hurley
>>
Avery


SG
THill
>
Langdon


F
BDavis
<
Cwell


F
GHill
>
Battier


C
Laettner
=
Brand



'99 was great, though. This isn't criticism.

PG: Hurley was a two-way player and the NCAA's all-time assists leader. Avery was a great offensive player but needed Carrawell to cover the top PGs for him.

SG: Langdon was the better shooter, but THill was a two-way player. Subtract some shooting, but add defense, slashing, and all-around versatility, including posting up small guards.

F: BDavis was a great defensive player, but Cwell was a two-way player who was the team's top perimeter defender but could also shoot some and create some.

F: GHill was just more talented than Shane. Both great defensive players, even as sophomores, but I'm going to take the extra athleticism and slashing ability.

C: Both dominant players, just in different ways.

[Jeffrey]

Agreed Maggette coming off the bench was one example of how dominant that team was.



Or, Maggette coming off the bench is one example of how much better will now utilize OADs.

[Jeffrey]

I'll take the '92 team and coach. IMO, Laettner was the best to ever play at Duke. If Grant Hill had stayed healthy, he would have been our best NBA player. And, Hurley was our best overall PG. Obviously, K had to chill out, but he was truly amazing in '92.

[jipops]

Re: 99 vs 92

My starters comparison:




1992
> or <
1999


PG
Hurley
>>
Avery


SG
THill
>
Langdon


F
BDavis
<
Cwell


F
GHill
>
Battier


C
Laettner
=
Brand



'99 was great, though. This isn't criticism.

PG: Hurley was a two-way player and the NCAA's all-time assists leader. Avery was a great offensive player but needed Carrawell to cover the top PGs for him.

SG: Langdon was the better shooter, but THill was a two-way player. Subtract some shooting, but add defense, slashing, and all-around versatility, including posting up small guards.

F: BDavis was a great defensive player, but Cwell was a two-way player who was the team's top perimeter defender but could also shoot some and create some.

F: GHill was just more talented than Shane. Both great defensive players, even as sophomores, but I'm going to take the extra athleticism and slashing ability.

C: Both dominant players, just in different ways.


Interesting side-by-side starter comparison. I would take the '92 team over the '99 team or any other Duke team (that I've seen). As others have mentioned the ACC was very weak in '99. And the '92 team suffered only 2 losses for the entire season (one at Wake in a tight one which foreshadowed the UK game, and one at UNC where Hurley broke is foot). The '92 team was the signature Duke team with so much versatility - a center as a dominating perimeter threat, a post up guard, two ball handlers as all-time greats, key role players, etc...


Maybe a better debate - '01 vs. '99 ?

[Indoor66]

Neither Laettner nor Hurley would have permitted 99 to lose in Tampa!

[wsb3]

F: BDavis was a great defensive player, but Cwell was a two-way player who was the team's top perimeter defender but could also shoot some and create some.

I will take Davis all day in this one. I would also argue that he was slightly better as an offensive player than CWell when comparing these years. He scored more. Better FG & FT percentage..CWell was better as a 3 point shooter.

Put me down for the 92 team as the greatest in Duke history. That team also dealt with some injury issues..

[Troublemaker]

I will take Davis all day in this one. I would also argue that he was slightly better as an offensive player than CWell when comparing these years. He scored more. Better FG & FT percentage..CWell was better as a 3 point shooter.

Put me down for the 92 team as the greatest in Duke history. That team also dealt with some injury issues..

A valid objection, wsb3. Jr year Carrawell wasn't nearly as good as Sr year Carrawell.

Loved Davis. A part of me probably just wanted to give '99 a win in the comparison instead of shutting them out.

[vick]

Re: 99 vs 92

My starters comparison:




1992
> or <
1999


PG
Hurley
>>
Avery


SG
THill
>
Langdon


F
BDavis
<
Cwell


F
GHill
>
Battier


C
Laettner
=
Brand



'99 was great, though. This isn't criticism.

PG: Hurley was a two-way player and the NCAA's all-time assists leader. Avery was a great offensive player but needed Carrawell to cover the top PGs for him.

SG: Langdon was the better shooter, but THill was a two-way player. Subtract some shooting, but add defense, slashing, and all-around versatility, including posting up small guards.

F: BDavis was a great defensive player, but Cwell was a two-way player who was the team's top perimeter defender but could also shoot some and create some.

F: GHill was just more talented than Shane. Both great defensive players, even as sophomores, but I'm going to take the extra athleticism and slashing ability.

C: Both dominant players, just in different ways.

Can I ask a dumb, dumb question? If Hurley, T. Hill, Davis, and G. Hill were all such great defenders, why did '92 give up so many points? I mean, based on Goduke.com's stats, they gave up 98.2 points per 100, which isn't even close to '99. I guess you can apologize it partly away by saying they coasted some and had injuries, but...there's a reason they gave up 103 points in 45 minutes to a Kentucky team, which, let's face it, wasn't exactly stacked with NBA All-Stars. So what gives?

[Olympic Fan]

A couple of these comparisons are ridiculous -- Carrawell in 1999 didn't have to score ... but he was the best defensive player in the ACC and an amazingly versatile player -- he was the backup point guard in 1999 (remember his performance in the OT win vs. St. John's in the Garden?)

I love Brian Davis, but no way he was an good in 1992 as Carrawell was in 1999 -- the ACC voters recognized that as Carrawell was the No. 12 vote-getter in the league in the All-ACC vote, while Davis didn't get a single vote.

And Thomas Hill over Trajon Langdon?

There is a reason that Thomas Hill was the 15th pick in the 1992 All-ACC vote .. while Langdon, a three-time first-team All-ACC pick, was the No. 2 pick in 1999 -- just behind Brand and ahead of Stevie Francis of Maryland. Langdon was a second-team consensus All-American in '99 (first team NABC, second on every other major team) ... Hill never sniffed an All-American team.

It's true that Thomas Hill was a better defender (although Langdon was a solid defensive player), but that's the only thing he did better. Langdon was a better shooter, a better scorer and while not a great distributor, he finished 1999 with more assists and a better assist-to-turnover ratio than Hill in 1992.

Langdon deserves a lot more respect than some of you are giving him. And nobody has brought it up, but I hate the second-guessing for the key play late in the UConn game, when K went to Trajan for the game-deciding play -- it makes me sick to hear people suggest (in hindsight) that he should have gone to Avery (who was 3-of-12 in the game) over Langdon, who was 7-of-15 (5-10 3 pointers) and had kept Duke in it with his 25 points. They forget the end of the first half, when Langdon went one-on-one and the result was a four-point play. Personally, I thought he was fouled on the play as he drove and was called for a travel ... but that's neither here nor there.

I do think the 1992 team deserves recognition as the greatest Duke team ever because they won and 1999 didn't. But overall, the 1999 team was more dominant and had they made one more play late in St. Pete, there would be no debate that they are the greatest Duke team in history.

PS Just to mention the two Pete Gillen quotes cited in this thread. The quote about Duke being on TV more than Leave it to Beaver was made in 1997 (not 1999). That was when Gillen was coaching Providence, which beat Duke in the second round of the NCAA in Charlotte. The quote about building the statue to Taymon Donzalski (0n the lawn, beside Thomas Jefferson) was in 1999 and was a comment about Duke's extraordinary depth. He was lamenting that Domzalski barely got off the bench at Duke, but would start at Virginia. Kind of true, but not really -- Domzalski has a solid freshman season in 1996 (6.5 ppg, 5.0 rebounds in 21 minutes a game), but was never able to build on that because of bad knees. He got 296 minutes in 1999 -- and was the last scholarship player on the bench (almost 200 minutes less than the next guy) -- but that was as much about his knees as his ability.

[Wander]

Clever. 2010 insanely underrated, even by Duke fans--no, not in the same class as '99 or '92 (or '01), but a hell of a lot better than they get credit for.

I'm not actually ready to claim the 2010 team as the best team, but they are insanely underrated in these discussions, as you say. To me, the 2010 team is at worst the 4th best Duke team (possibly behind all of 1992, 1999, and 2001, but easily ahead of 1991 and 2015).

I think it's a mistake to try and do these individual player comparison across different seasons and eras. I would anoint 2001 as the best Duke team, not 1992 or 1999, by virtue of winning the NCAA tournament without needing a miracle.

[UrinalCake]

I did find this video of a dunk earlier in the season vs Florida though - enjoy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLsuG9dCckE

The story I heard is that before the game he had made a bet with Elton that he would slap the top of the backboard in the game. I love how he reacts when the ref T's him up. He has the audacity to actually look surprised, as if it wasn't the most deserved tech ever.

I have heard the stories about players going out the weekend of the Final Four. I also heard rumors that certain players on the team (I won't say which ones but you can probably figure it out) had formed somewhat of a clique together and weren't as bonded with the rest of the team. I have no idea whether this affected their play on the court or somehow contributed to the loss in the Final, but it is a little disappointing to hear.

Prior to the Championship game, I remember Jim Calhoun was doing an interview and when asked how he would defend Duke he jokingly said that he would ask Brand to guard El-Amin. Everyone had a good laugh about it, except that's exactly what he did, using high ball screens knowing that we would switch everything which resulted in Brand guarding their PG. Now almost 20 years later we are STILL doing this! Drives me crazy sometimes. Of course we have also won three titles since then, so maybe the strategy works more often than not. The other overlooked weaknesses to that team IMO are the lack of a center (Burgess was somewhat out of favor in big games and we seemed to play Elton more at center when it mattered) and our inability to guard athletic wing players like Rip Hamilton, who killed us in that Final.

[Blue KevIL]

The story I heard is that before the game he had made a bet with Elton that he would slap the top of the backboard in the game. I love how he reacts when the ref T's him up. He has the audacity to actually look surprised, as if it wasn't the most deserved tech ever.

The way I heard the story was that Brand jumped up and put a his hand print high up on the glass at the end of practice the day before the Florida game. Because Maggette was the only Freshman that season and had crazy hops, Brand said to him, "Hey, Rook, jump up and wipe that hand print off of the glass." Maggette began to take a running start to do so, but Brand stopped him and told him, "Not now. Tomorrow. During the game."

So the dare was on.

[wsb3]

A couple of these comparisons are ridiculous -- Carrawell in 1999 didn't have to score ... but he was the best defensive player in the ACC and an amazingly versatile player -- he was the backup point guard in 1999 (remember his performance in the OT win vs. St. John's in the Garden?)

I love Brian Davis, but no way he was an good in 1992 as Carrawell was in 1999 -- the ACC voters recognized that as Carrawell was the No. 12 vote-getter in the league in the All-ACC vote, while Davis didn't get a single vote.

Davis did not have to score on the 92 team. . As far as All ACC votes I can't put a lot of stock in that as the league varies in strength & I believe the 92 ACC to be far stronger than the 99 ACC..

One thing that gets overlooked (maybe just to me) but the 92 team..while Hurley was a great point guard we had such great finishers on that team.. Grant Hill, Thomas Hill, & Davis..Thing of beauty watching them out on the break..

& for the record I love CWell..The jump he made from 99- 00 was incredible. I believe he doubled his scoring average. That remains one of my favorite Duke teams..after everyone left all I heard all summer from Cheat fans was how bad we were going to be..

[CDu]

The best part about the Maggette Florida game is that - after getting a tech for the egregious backboard slap - he proceeded to do it again. He didn't do it quite as bad though. The ref was about to t him up again (and may have blown the whistle - nobody could hear it. But Coach K said something to the ref (probably "I am taking him out"), and no tech was given. Chalk it up to youthful exuberance or just plain being a dummy, but that second rim hang was ridiculous.

[vick]

Davis did not have to score on the 92 team. . As far as All ACC votes I can't put a lot of stock in that as the league varies in strength & I believe the 92 ACC to be far stronger than the 99 ACC..

One thing that gets overlooked (maybe just to me) but the 92 team..while Hurley was a great point guard we had such great finishers on that team.. Grant Hill, Thomas Hill, & Davis..Thing of beauty watching them out on the break..

& for the record I love CWell..The jump he made from 99- 00 was incredible. I believe he doubled his scoring average. That remains one of my favorite Duke teams..after everyone left all I heard all summer from Cheat fans was how bad we were going to be..

Not sure there's a lot of evidence for this. '92 had more tournament teams, but '99 Maryland was better than any of Duke's '92 ACC opponents. Bizarrely, if you take the oldest computer ranking I'm aware of, sports-reference's simple rating system, the non-Duke ACC teams had literally the identical rating those two years (12.325--the score represents the expected point margin over an NCAA average team). I can see a reasonable person arguing '92 ACC was stronger, but not by much. Arguing the second-best player in the ACC in '99 wasn't better than the 15th best player in '92 is frankly, as Olympic Fan says, ridiculous.