Cheerleaders at football games

[Raleighfan]

I am prompted to post this based on some comments from a couple seated behind me at the game yesterday, Duke alumni who admittedly had not attended a football game in WW in years. They were questioning the effectiveness of Duke cheerleaders with regard to getting the crowd into the game. Granted, it's easy to be engaged in the game if your team is doing well and winning...which certainly didn't apply to Duke yesterday. But when the team is down and could use some crowd support, is it not a job/function of the CHEER LEADERS to get the crowd into the game? Many Duke opponents come to WW accompanied by their cheerleaders which include some guys with booming voices and megaphones. What does Duke have.....dancing girls waving their pompoms: not only the official cheerleaders, but also the Dancing Devils. This may be OK in CIS where the Crazies pretty much lead the cheers, but WW is a different matter altogether where crowd apathy is usually the order of the day.

Do I think that having male cheerleaders with megaphones is going to be a factor in Duke's winning or losing a game? No....at least not directly. But if I were a visiting 17-year-old high school recruit, I'd be more impressed with cheerleaders who were actively exhorting fans to get behind the team than I would be with the existing situation. I believe I've read posts on this board that indicate that Duke should/plans to do anything and everything to upgrade the football program. Seems to me that "anything and everything" should include revamping the cheering squad....at least for football games.

[RepoMan]

About the one aspect of the football program that consistently makes me feel good is the lack of male cheerleaders. Let's not mess up a good thing.

[Bluedawg]

Now you want to blame the lack of crowd support on the cheerleaders? What has happened to taking responsibility for our own actions. people sit in the stands, on their hands and refuse to show any excitement or enthusiasm and it's the cheerleaders fault? please.

These ladies work their tails off day in and day out. While the players get a break with their squad is off the filed sitting under fans and getting drinks handed to them. however, the cheerleaders go nonstop through the first half with no break until halftime. No one to bring them towels, drinks, fans to sit under, or even a place to sit. During halftime when the team is in the air-conditioned locker-room toe cheerleaders get their break under the hot sun. When the second half starts they are back our there, going nonstop until the end of the game doing whatever they can to get those lumps in the stands on their feet. And through it all you have the audacity to blame them.

I guess you'd rather they stand in a line chanting "rah rah Ree, kick them in the knee, rah rah rats kick them in the other knee."

These ladies from the cheerleading squad and the dancing devils take a lot of pride in what they do. They work extremely hard not only on their performance but in their personal conditioning.

Please...do not blame the cheerleader.

[RepoMan]

Please...do not blame the cheerleader.

That's just funny!

[BD80]

Weren't the schollies for male cheerleaders eliminated, along with wrestling and other men's sports, as part of Title IX compliance?

[Raleighfan]

Now you want to blame the lack of crowd support on the cheerleaders? What has happened to taking responsibility for our own actions. people sit in the stands, on their hands and refuse to show any excitement or enthusiasm and it's the cheerleaders fault? please.

These ladies work their tails off day in and day out. While the players get a break with their squad is off the filed sitting under fans and getting drinks handed to them. however, the cheerleaders go nonstop through the first half with no break until halftime. No one to bring them towels, drinks, fans to sit under, or even a place to sit. During halftime when the team is in the air-conditioned locker-room toe cheerleaders get their break under the hot sun. When the second half starts they are back our there, going nonstop until the end of the game doing whatever they can to get those lumps in the stands on their feet. And through it all you have the audacity to blame them.

I guess you'd rather they stand in a line chanting "rah rah Ree, kick them in the knee, rah rah rats kick them in the other knee."

These ladies from the cheerleading squad and the dancing devils take a lot of pride in what they do. They work extremely hard not only on their performance but in their personal conditioning.

Please...do not blame the cheerleader.

My goodness....I seem to have offended you when such was not my intention. Obviously, you know far more about the cheerleaders than I do. Please reread the first sentences of my post. I'm not the only one who had these thoughts. As for chants....if I were a cheerleader with a megaphone, I 'd pick it up and yell "Don't. Leave. Now" or "Sit. Back. Down" when Duke fans start heading for the exits during the third quarter (or before).

[Highlander]

Weren't the schollies for male cheerleaders eliminated, along with wrestling and other men's sports, as part of Title IX compliance?

I don't think the cheerleaders (female or male) are on scholarship at all. Neither is the band.

The reason Duke doesn't have male cheerleaders is that Duke doesn't allow stunting (other than tumbling). This goes for other schools as well when they visit Wally Wade, which renders their male cheerleaders equally useless other than holding megaphones and waving huge flags. Typically men are used as bases for pyramids, cupie's, etc. If they can't do that, they are basically just dancers.

We did have a couple of guys (maybe as many as four) cheer around 1997 or 1998, but the experiment was short lived b/c the lack of stunting that was allowed.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Back in the day..... OK, back in the 70's, there were both male cheerleaders and a "head cheerleader" who stood on a wooden stand in front of the student section (which back then was on the west side, opposite of where it is now) level with the top of the front wall and he had an amplified microphone and actually did lead cheers for the student section. The best they ever had was someone named Bobby, I think his last name was Farin, but I am probably mistaken or at least am mis-spelling it. He was actually there for 2 seasons - '74 and '75 seasons?. He was creative and very funny. He did more than the standard cheers and he really had the stands rockin' when things were going our way. Two cheers I remember:

We got the fever! We're hot! We can't be stopped! (repeat several times while dancing around and the offense is moving down the field.) We could use this one again this year!

I have deleted the second cheer I was going to post in favor of civility and political correctness. Gosh I hate being politically correct. So I'll go with
Harass them! Harass them! Make them relinquish the ball! Obviously a defensive cheer. It's better than "Fumble play, fumble play, we want a fumble play!"

[6th Man]

My fiance and I were discussing the same thing about the cheerleaders. Really to me, there is not much right about Duke football right now. Somehow I keep showing up waiting for something to turn around. To top it off we were near some recent former players. One of which sneaked in some Budweiser, while most were using foul language. They particularly were fond of dropping the f-bomb. After some really foul language, my fiance looked at one of them as she had to cover her daughter's ears. His response was what are you staring at? The sad part of that is all the children that were near by to witness all of this. There is no room for that when you are at a venue where families come with children. Take that to the parties afterwards. These guys had badges with ID #'s on them. I should have got the numbers on them and reported this. Probably would have been disregarded as most issues are with football.

[devildeac]

Back in the day..... OK, back in the 70's, there were both male cheerleaders and a "head cheerleader" who stood on a wooden stand in front of the student section (which back then was on the west side, opposite of where it is now) level with the top of the front wall and he had an amplified microphone and actually did lead cheers for the student section. The best they ever had was someone named Bobby, I think his last name was Farin, but I am probably mistaken or at least am mis-spelling it. He was actually there for 2 seasons - '74 and '75 seasons?. He was creative and very funny. He did more than the standard cheers and he really had the stands rockin' when things were going our way. Two cheers I remember:

We got the fever! We're hot! We can't be stopped! (repeat several times while dancing around and the offense is moving down the field.) We could use this one again this year!

I have deleted the second cheer I was going to post in favor of civility and political correctness. Gosh I hate being politically correct. So I'll go with
Harass them! Harass them! Make them relinquish the ball! Obviously a defensive cheer. It's better than "Fumble play, fumble play, we want a fumble play!"

Ozzie-you forgot 3 other 'classics'

1. 2 stars, 4 stars, 6 stars, a planet, all for Maryland(or whomever), stand up and cram it!

2. 2 stars. 4 stars, 6 stars, a comet, all for Maryland(they are just too easy a target), stand up and vomit!

3. (variation of your 2nd favorite cheer)- harass them, harass them make them relinquish the spheroid(meant to make us sound more Ivy-like)

Yeh, lame, but it is a slow Sunday night.

[Indoor66]

Yeh, lame, but it is a slow Sunday night.

Yeah, I agree. I think I'll mosey over and read about how lousy our BB recruiting is! :rolleyes:

[Devilsfan]

I have a comment but it might get me a timeout.

[Cameron]

Wow, if we start to struggle during basketball season and someone starts blaming the tents, I'm getting out of here.

No offense, but what have you been drinking, sir? Blaming the cheerleaders? When you started typing the header for this thread, what exactly was running through your mind? Well nothing can beat this, I have discovered the answer to Duke football's ten year misery. Damn I am profound. Cheerleaders not pumping up the crowd.

Lol, sorry.

I just caught this:


But if I were a visiting 17-year-old high school recruit, I'd be more impressed with cheerleaders who were actively exhorting fans to get behind the team than I would be with the existing situation.

I guess first off I would have to question why you are dissecting the Duke cheerleader pump up volume "situation" so intricately? Secondly, I'm pretty sure a Duke football recruit has never came to Wallace Wade and thought, you know what, "I'd be more impressed with cheerleaders who were actively exhorting fans to get behind the team than I would be with the existing situation."

Lol.

[Raleighfan]

Wow, if we start to struggle during basketball season and someone starts blaming the tents, I'm getting out of here.

No offense, but what have you been drinking, sir? Blaming the cheerleaders? When you started typing the header for this thread, what exactly was running through your mind? Well nothing can beat this, I have discovered the answer to Duke football's ten year misery. Damn I am profound. Cheerleaders not pumping up the crowd.

Lol, sorry.

Whew...I seem to have opened a real can of worms. In the first place, Sir Cameron, I'm a ma'am. The thread heading was "Cheerleaders at football games"....seems fairly innocuous, at least to me. I'm certainly not blaming the cheerleaders or any other group/individual for Duke's football misfortunes...I don't pretend to have the answer(s) for that. I stated in the beginning that people behind me at the game were discussing the cheerleaders and seeming lack of "crowd solidarity" (their term, not mine) among Duke fans. I actually go to the games and pay attention to what happens on the field, cheerleaders or no. Our seats are about on the 50-yard line and the cheerleaders seldom come down that far. Generally speaking, I thought that the role of cheerleaders was to pump up the crowd. Guess I was mistaken.

[cspan37421]

Interception, Contraception, Stop That Ball!

[TillyGalore]

I agree with Raleighfan's post. Duke fans are not in the games at all. Course we haven't had a lot to cheer about, but I've been really disappointed with the opponents having a better cheering section than Duke, and we're the home team for cryin' out loud. Wake Forest had a smaller contingency than VPI (every time I see VT I think Vermont) and they were still much louder than Duke fans. Even their band was louder than ours. Heck their band drowned ours out.

The solution I offer is to move the student and band sections so they are behind or at least on the same side of the field as the football team. This would then bring all the cheerleaders over to one side and perhaps then they, along with the band, could get the whole Duke section cheering for the team.

I'm not saying this will help our team play any better, they certainly won't play any worse. :D

[OZZIE4DUKE]

3. (variation of your 2nd favorite cheer)- harass them, harass them make them relinquish the spheroid(meant to make us sound more Ivy-like)



Actually, it is/was harass them, harass them make them relinquish the OBLONG spheroid.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Wake Forest had a smaller contingency than VPI (every time I see VT I think Vermont) and they were still much louder than Duke fans. Even their band was louder than ours. Heck their band drowned ours out.

The solution I offer is to move the student and band sections so they are behind or at least on the same side of the field as the football team. This would then bring all the cheerleaders over to one side and perhaps then they, along with the band, could get the whole Duke section cheering for the team.


Part of the reason the other team's fans sound louder than we do is they are facing us so sound carries across the field towards us. Sitting in the stands many of the fans are in front of you (depending on where you are sitting) and the sound carries away from you. Can't say the same about the bands though. The other band almost always sounds louder than DUMB. I've never been able to figure that out when they are about the same size. Their horns are louder, their drums are louder. Maybe their just more full of hot air? :rolleyes:

[Bob Green]

Back in the day..... OK, back in the 70's, there were both male cheerleaders and a "head cheerleader" who stood on a wooden stand in front of the student section (which back then was on the west side, opposite of where it is now) level with the top of the front wall and he had an amplified microphone and actually did lead cheers for the student section.


I didn't know the student section had switched sides. The last time I was in WW was the Pittsburgh game in 1976. I really need to schedule a visit to NC during football season.

[sbpollo]

In 1975 Geoff Howson was the Devil, "Head Cheerleader"; he went on to write a funny little book "Golf: How to Look Good When You're Not". We also had Male Cheerleaders then. The "stop that ball cheer" predates Spurrier! There was also a lot of water balloon shooting onto the foeld with rubber hoses from the chem school!

[devildeac]

In 1975 Geoff Howson was the Devil, "Head Cheerleader"; he went on to write a funny little book "Golf: How to Look Good When You're Not". We also had Male Cheerleaders then. The "stop that ball cheer" predates Spurrier! There was also a lot of water balloon shooting onto the foeld with rubber hoses from the chem school!

One of these launches actually reached the field when Ozzie and I were there and hit one of the drums in the band. I seem to remember a ban shortly thereafter.

[devildeac]

I didn't know the student section had switched sides. The last time I was in WW was the Pittsburgh game in 1976. I really need to schedule a visit to NC during football season.

Soooo, your lack of attendance at WW is the reason we have faltered for the last 30+ years on the gridiron;)

[Bluedawg]

Whew...I seem to have opened a real can of worms. In the first place, Sir Cameron, I'm a ma'am. The thread heading was "Cheerleaders at football games"....seems fairly innocuous, at least to me. I'm certainly not blaming the cheerleaders or any other group/individual for Duke's football misfortunes...I don't pretend to have the answer(s) for that. I stated in the beginning that people behind me at the game were discussing the cheerleaders and seeming lack of "crowd solidarity" (their term, not mine) among Duke fans. I actually go to the games and pay attention to what happens on the field, cheerleaders or no. Our seats are about on the 50-yard line and the cheerleaders seldom come down that far. Generally speaking, I thought that the role of cheerleaders was to pump up the crowd. Guess I was mistaken.

East or west 50 yard line?

tell me...what more do you expect them to do? If you have ideas, and you must, I'm sure the cheerleader coach would be happy to hear from you.

[Bluedawg]

I agree with Raleighfan's post. Duke fans are not in the games at all. Course we haven't had a lot to cheer about, but I've been really disappointed with the opponents having a better cheering section than Duke, and we're the home team for cryin' out loud. Wake Forest had a smaller contingency than VPI (every time I see VT I think Vermont) and they were still much louder than Duke fans. Even their band was louder than ours. Heck their band drowned ours out.

But Raleighfan seems to think this is the cheerleader's fault. That the Duke fans don't cheer louder because the cheerleaders don't do enough to encourage them to.


The solution I offer is to move the student and band sections so they are behind or at least on the same side of the field as the football team. This would then bring all the cheerleaders over to one side and perhaps then they, along with the band, could get the whole Duke section cheering for the team.

I'm not saying this will help our team play any better, they certainly won't play any worse. :D

They circle the field now. The only place they don't go is the south end-zone [no seats] and the south east end because that is where the visiting team is.

I'm sorry but i don't understand this all out assault on the cheerleaders. have we run out of things to put blame on. Whose next, the grounds keeper.

[Raleighfan]

"I'm sorry but i don't understand this all out assault on the cheerleaders. have we run out of things to put blame on."

Hey Dawg, chill out....you make me out to be an evil idiot from the Dark Side. I'm not assaulting anybody. You seem to be reading things into my post that just aren't there. As I said earlier, I hadn't given much thought to the cheerleaders one way or another until the people behind me brought up the subject. I'm sorry this has been such a thorn in your craw.

[TillyGalore]

Part of the reason the other team's fans sound louder than we do is they are facing us so sound carries across the field towards us. Sitting in the stands many of the fans are in front of you (depending on where you are sitting) and the sound carries away from you. Can't say the same about the bands though. The other band almost always sounds louder than DUMB. I've never been able to figure that out when they are about the same size. Their horns are louder, their drums are louder. Maybe their just more full of hot air? :rolleyes:

This just supports my thought that all the Duke fans and the band should be on the same side of the field so the visitors feel like we are overpowering them. :D


But Raleighfan seems to think this is the cheerleader's fault. That the Duke fans don't cheer louder because the cheerleaders don't do enough to encourage them to.

They circle the field now. The only place they don't go is the south end-zone [no seats] and the south east end because that is where the visiting team is.

I'm sorry but i don't understand this all out assault on the cheerleaders. have we run out of things to put blame on. Whose next, the grounds keeper.

Bluedawg, I don't think Raleighfan is blaming the cheerleaders, nor am I. Were you a cheerleader in a past life and feel like a nerve has been hit. ;) Seriously, it is sort of depressing to hear the other side cheer so loud and the Duke fans seem so quiet, even with Ozzie's explanation above.

I have seen the cheerleaders try to lead the fans in a cheer, but either the fans aren't paying attention to them, can't hear them, or don't feel there is anything to cheer about.

[Shammrog]

I have a comment but it might get me a timeout.


Me too. A good friend of mine in grad school at UNC was a cheerleader there - BUT, I just get a bad vibe on guys cheering on other guys. Not enlightened, I know. Just being honest; strikes me as kind of effeminate (in a non-homophobic) way...

[grossbus]

"Can't say the same about the bands though. The other band almost always sounds louder than DUMB. I've never been able to figure that out when they are about the same size"

R U sure about the size ozzie? that is not what i have been hearing. when i was in the DUMB in the early 60's, we numbered about 80. every school in the ACC had a larger band than us except Wake.

my understanding is that the number was down around 50-60 in the last several years. that is a small group in a large stadium.

i am not sure if this is still the case, but marching band was a true extracurricular when i was there...not just no schollies, no class credit. a lot of work and probably the worst seats in the house.

when was the student section changed from west side to east side and why?

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

Okay, you guys have finally hit on something I'm pretty passionate about. So I'm gonna unload at the risk of getting sat on.

I must confess to never really knowing which side of WW was the "home" side until they switched the band and student section to East. The student section was on one side, the president's box on the other. During the half, the band played toward the team side although there was no team on the field to hear them and none of us Iron Dukes or any of the guests in the president's box could ever hear what they were doing. It's been stony silence during the "show" while everybody strained to listen. Now, at least we're all on the East together and the band plays at the half at least some of the time toward us all. We feel a bit more included.

On the subject of cheerleaders, having been one back in the stone age, I've noticed that the job description must have changed since "my day". I think probably with the invention of the Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders, they all see themselves more as entertainers now rather than actually getting involved with a real job to do with the crowd and leading and managing it. They dance and that's about it. Ours, in particular, long ago relinquished their leadership to the Crazies who were happy to take over and run the show. Fact is, we've gone through a whole game in Cameron from time to time when they weren't even in the building and never even noticed. That's how much impact they have.

Ours seem to be caught up in some sort of time warp. Costumes have never changed with the times, hairdos are all the little out dated high school ribbon bows.

We've begged for more action behind the rail in Cameron. For example, it was really terrific to have the trombones come up to the entrances a couple of times. Many of us up there screamed for more....wrote letters of appreciation etc, but to no avail. Why? I've never seen a cheerleader above the rail getting people involved. Why not send half of them up into the aisles on one side and half to the other during a game and lead a simple echo cheer back and forth. Does that seem so hard?

So don't blame us old fogies up there in the dark for feeling out of it. We're ignored 99% of the time and then simply admonished by the Crazies (not led by the cheerleaders) when our services are really needed.

The saddest I ever felt for all involved was the year we went to the final four (I think it was in Charlotte). We all went to a pep rally where all the schools' bands and cheerleaders were supposed to perform. Everybody else's did with rousing shows their fans could get involved with. Ours never even showed up. No explanation, no nothin'.

Bottom line is that there are plenty of people who want to be led, but nobody's leading. They just dance some more. Why not try letting them just go ahead and do their dances and try out some guys out there who can relate to the Crazies and do some fun stuff with the crowd. Lord knows many of you are already trying to get into the act from the stands. Give some energetic men the chance to do it for real....from out on the floor facing the crowd. Guys can be much more fun, inventive and assertive than the girls on that role. I think we need them to shake things up. They ought to be working hard all over the stands....and yes, with megaphones!

I don't think it's the cheerleaders' fault. They are probably as creative as they are allowed to be. I think there must be some out of date advisors or a committee somewhere worried about keeping a lid on things or something....bless their hearts.

OK. Let me have it. I can take it.

Love (honest), Ima

[riverside6]

Back in the day..... OK, back in the 70's, there were both male cheerleaders and a "head cheerleader" who stood on a wooden stand in front of the student section (which back then was on the west side, opposite of where it is now) level with the top of the front wall and he had an amplified microphone and actually did lead cheers for the student section. The best they ever had was someone named Bobby, I think his last name was Farin, but I am probably mistaken or at least am mis-spelling it. He was actually there for 2 seasons - '74 and '75 seasons?. He was creative and very funny. He did more than the standard cheers and he really had the stands rockin' when things were going our way. Two cheers I remember:

We got the fever! We're hot! We can't be stopped! (repeat several times while dancing around and the offense is moving down the field.) We could use this one again this year!

I have deleted the second cheer I was going to post in favor of civility and political correctness. Gosh I hate being politically correct. So I'll go with
Harass them! Harass them! Make them relinquish the ball! Obviously a defensive cheer. It's better than "Fumble play, fumble play, we want a fumble play!"

Hmm, the name sounds familiar. Was it this guy (http://www.bobbymcferrin.com/)? If so, don't worry be happy would be fitting nowadays.

[Bluedawg]

This just supports my thought that all the Duke fans and the band should be on the same side of the field so the visitors feel like we are overpowering them. :D



Bluedawg, I don't think Raleighfan is blaming the cheerleaders, nor am I. Were you a cheerleader in a past life and feel like a nerve has been hit. ;) Seriously, it is sort of depressing to hear the other side cheer so loud and the Duke fans seem so quiet, even with Ozzie's explanation above.

I have seen the cheerleaders try to lead the fans in a cheer, but either the fans aren't paying attention to them, can't hear them, or don't feel there is anything to cheer about.


Nope, never was a cheerleader...to big and fat.

It’s just that movies and TV always make fun of cheerleaders as a whole and they are usually the basis for a lot of jokes in many places. Since I know how hard the ladies here at Duke work, how ours don't fit the “airhead” stereotype I just felt someone needed to stand up for them.

[TillyGalore]

Nope, never was a cheerleader...to big and fat.

It’s just that movies and TV always make fun of cheerleaders as a whole and they are usually the basis for a lot of jokes in many places. Since I know how hard the ladies here at Duke work, how ours don't fit the “airhead” stereotype I just felt someone needed to stand up for them.


I don't think anyone was slamming our cheerleaders, especially on their SAT scores, which were probably pretty high, or their athleticism.

Again, I think the big issue is lack of vocal fan support during the game and whether this is due to the cheerleaders or the fans. I think Duke fans have become spoiled by the Cameron Crazies, and the "Wade Wackos" just aren't up to speed yet.

[DU82]

Part of the reason the other team's fans sound louder than we do is they are facing us so sound carries across the field towards us. Sitting in the stands many of the fans are in front of you (depending on where you are sitting) and the sound carries away from you. Can't say the same about the bands though. The other band almost always sounds louder than DUMB. I've never been able to figure that out when they are about the same size. Their horns are louder, their drums are louder. Maybe their just more full of hot air? :rolleyes:

There's more horns (ie, brass) and more drums than DUMB. The percentage of flutes and clarinets (I'm included in the latter group back way when) is much higher than other schools. I know some of the bigger bands hand a brass instrument or drum to the woodwinds, we've never done that, might drive away some of the volunteers. Many of those other schools require just about all music majors to be in the band, so they're more able to force that adjustment.

You're right about them being right across from you, and therefore they sound louder.

Staying on the subject, why in the world was the band moved to the 10 yard line? It's bad enough that they're on the "other" side (in other stadiums of course, the ENTIRE STADIUM is the right side!) but now they've been crammed in a corner, while their old seats are occupied, at least on Saturday, by fans from the other school. Anybody have a reason? Did the ACC order the bands out from right in back of the opposing team?

[DukeUsul]

There's more horns (ie, brass) and more drums than DUMB. The percentage of flutes and clarinets (I'm included in the latter group back way when) is much higher than other schools. I know some of the bigger bands hand a brass instrument or drum to the woodwinds, we've never done that, might drive away some of the volunteers. Many of those other schools require just about all music majors to be in the band, so they're more able to force that adjustment.

You're right about them being right across from you, and therefore they sound louder.

Staying on the subject, why in the world was the band moved to the 10 yard line? It's bad enough that they're on the "other" side (in other stadiums of course, the ENTIRE STADIUM is the right side!) but now they've been crammed in a corner, while their old seats are occupied, at least on Saturday, by fans from the other school. Anybody have a reason? Did the ACC order the bands out from right in back of the opposing team?

Good question. When we were moved from West to East (I think between my Soph and Junior years) the conventional wisdom was that putting the students and band behind the visitors would be loud/distracting during dead-ball situations. Moving the band further into the corner doesn't seem to jibe with that.

[throatybeard]

Because Duke is totally divorced from any concept of FB culture at this point?

[Richard Berg]

There's more horns (ie, brass) and more drums than DUMB. The percentage of flutes and clarinets (I'm included in the latter group back way when) is much higher than other schools. I know some of the bigger bands hand a brass instrument or drum to the woodwinds, we've never done that, might drive away some of the volunteers. Many of those other schools require just about all music majors to be in the band, so they're more able to force that adjustment.
Yup. Also, a lot of what gives a band a "big" sound simply comes down to talent level. All else equal, the band with tighter rhythm and better tuning/blend will sound louder. (for the acoustics geeks: less destructive interference and auditory masking) Suffice to say musicianship has never been DUMB's forte.

[jlear]

I think it would be great to not only move the band to the other side of the field but the student section as well. I would give the students the first 10 rows or so of the middle 4 sections. It would help get us on that side into the game project all of our noise into the face of the opponent and hopefully show a little better to recruits in for a visit.

Of course that might make the stands look even more empty on that side.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Hmm, the name sounds familiar. Was it this guy (http://www.bobbymcferrin.com/)? If so, don't worry be happy would be fitting nowadays.

Nope, not him as far as I know, but the name is similar and I thought of that when originally posting.

[gvtucker]

Okay, you guys have finally hit on something I'm pretty passionate about. So I'm gonna unload at the risk of getting sat on.

I must confess to never really knowing which side of WW was the "home" side until they switched the band and student section to East. The student section was on one side, the president's box on the other. During the half, the band played toward the team side although there was no team on the field to hear them and none of us Iron Dukes or any of the guests in the president's box could ever hear what they were doing. It's been stony silence during the "show" while everybody strained to listen. Now, at least we're all on the East together and the band plays at the half at least some of the time toward us all. We feel a bit more included.

On the subject of cheerleaders, having been one back in the stone age, I've noticed that the job description must have changed since "my day". I think probably with the invention of the Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders, they all see themselves more as entertainers now rather than actually getting involved with a real job to do with the crowd and leading and managing it. They dance and that's about it. Ours, in particular, long ago relinquished their leadership to the Crazies who were happy to take over and run the show. Fact is, we've gone through a whole game in Cameron from time to time when they weren't even in the building and never even noticed. That's how much impact they have.

Ours seem to be caught up in some sort of time warp. Costumes have never changed with the times, hairdos are all the little out dated high school ribbon bows.

We've begged for more action behind the rail in Cameron. For example, it was really terrific to have the trombones come up to the entrances a couple of times. Many of us up there screamed for more....wrote letters of appreciation etc, but to no avail. Why? I've never seen a cheerleader above the rail getting people involved. Why not send half of them up into the aisles on one side and half to the other during a game and lead a simple echo cheer back and forth. Does that seem so hard?

So don't blame us old fogies up there in the dark for feeling out of it. We're ignored 99% of the time and then simply admonished by the Crazies (not led by the cheerleaders) when our services are really needed.

The saddest I ever felt for all involved was the year we went to the final four (I think it was in Charlotte). We all went to a pep rally where all the schools' bands and cheerleaders were supposed to perform. Everybody else's did with rousing shows their fans could get involved with. Ours never even showed up. No explanation, no nothin'.

Bottom line is that there are plenty of people who want to be led, but nobody's leading. They just dance some more. Why not try letting them just go ahead and do their dances and try out some guys out there who can relate to the Crazies and do some fun stuff with the crowd. Lord knows many of you are already trying to get into the act from the stands. Give some energetic men the chance to do it for real....from out on the floor facing the crowd. Guys can be much more fun, inventive and assertive than the girls on that role. I think we need them to shake things up. They ought to be working hard all over the stands....and yes, with megaphones!

I don't think it's the cheerleaders' fault. They are probably as creative as they are allowed to be. I think there must be some out of date advisors or a committee somewhere worried about keeping a lid on things or something....bless their hearts.


Boy. It's hard for me to imagine disagreeing with you more.

First, for me, it is very noticeable on those rare occasions when the cheerleaders aren't in Cameron. (I think there was one game like that last year, maybe two. I think it was over winter break.) I have remarked to people sitting around me that it really seems like something significant is missing, and most of them agree. (Hey, I guess they could be patronizing me, but it still seems like that from my perspective.)

Far from being a dance team, I think our cheerleaders are more throwbacks to the era when cheerleaders actually lead cheers, because that's what I usually see, whether it is in Cameron or Wallace Wade.

I've been to several Final Fours, and each time the cheerleaders showed up for a pre game pep rally. For the games in New York City over the past few years, the cheerleaders and the pep band showed up at the alumni pre game dinner. Heck, some people (not me) were complaining about how loud it was.

Every year, in the August heat, the cheerleaders come back to school early and they're at the Meet the Team football event, speaking with the fans.
In an era where most of the cheerleaders of our opponents get recruited and get scholarships and seem as different from the student body as the athletes, our cheerleaders are just students that are working hard to cheer on our teams. I like that.

You wanna know why there's no noise at football games? 1-10, 0-12, 1-6. Simple as that. And the cheerleaders can't do much about that.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Boy. It's hard for me to imagine disagreeing with you more.

First, for me, it is very noticeable on those rare occasions when the cheerleaders aren't in Cameron. (I think there was one game like that last year, maybe two. I think it was over winter break.)

For the games in New York City over the past few years, the cheerleaders and the pep band showed up at the alumni pre game dinner. Heck, some people (not me) were complaining about how loud it was.

I agree with gv on this - whenever Cameron is devoid of cheerleaders, the atmosphere isn't the same.

As far as the band for the game in NYC, that is (primarily) the alumni band, although current DUMBers who live in or near the City play also. Maybe that's why it is so loud - if you can't play well, play loud! LOL! My only (two) alumni band appearances (on the kazoo) have been limited to women's games in Cameron. And personally, I think the alumni band does a fabulous job (as long as I'm not in it!)

[DU82]

Yup. Also, a lot of what gives a band a "big" sound simply comes down to talent level. All else equal, the band with tighter rhythm and better tuning/blend will sound louder. (for the acoustics geeks: less destructive interference and auditory masking) Suffice to say musicianship has never been DUMB's forte.

Heck, I was proof of that! :) For years, there was a tamborine section, for those that wanted to join DUMB, but had no musical talent.

Rehearsing twice a week (and immediately before games on Saturday) there isn't a lot of time to get everything together as smoothly as other, bigger, schools. To contrast, I interviewed a State student a week or two ago for a part-time intern position. He said he couldn't start work until after the football season, because the band ate into too much of his time.

[Bluedawg]

Boy. It's hard for me to imagine disagreeing with you more.

First, for me, it is very noticeable on those rare occasions when the cheerleaders aren't in Cameron. (I think there was one game like that last year, maybe two. I think it was over winter break.) I have remarked to people sitting around me that it really seems like something significant is missing, and most of them agree. (Hey, I guess they could be patronizing me, but it still seems like that from my perspective.)

Far from being a dance team, I think our cheerleaders are more throwbacks to the era when cheerleaders actually lead cheers, because that's what I usually see, whether it is in Cameron or Wallace Wade.

I've been to several Final Fours, and each time the cheerleaders showed up for a pre game pep rally. For the games in New York City over the past few years, the cheerleaders and the pep band showed up at the alumni pre game dinner. Heck, some people (not me) were complaining about how loud it was.

Every year, in the August heat, the cheerleaders come back to school early and they're at the Meet the Team football event, speaking with the fans.
In an era where most of the cheerleaders of our opponents get recruited and get scholarships and seem as different from the student body as the athletes, our cheerleaders are just students that are working hard to cheer on our teams. I like that.

You wanna know why there's no noise at football games? 1-10, 0-12, 1-6. Simple as that. And the cheerleaders can't do much about that.

Completely agree. I miss them during the Christmas break when they are not at cameron also!

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

I don't mean to say our gals don't give it their all. They are energetic and spirited and dedicated. I only mean to say that there must be somebody or some commitee somewhere keeping them from being more innovative. We all know our kids are more creative than this when they have the freedom to be so.

All the more reason to appreciate their work.
Love, Ima

[Atldukie79]

As a former "DUMBer" from the late 70's and a much too involved chaperone parent of 3 high school marching band kids (marching 200+ kids) for 8 years ( one of whom is now in this year's DUMB) , I have gotten to know a bit about marching bands.

As stated by others, look to the mix of brass and woodwinds. More brass, more sound. DUMB takes what it can get. Look also to the number of kids who aspire to music careers and especially as school music teachers. These guys are passionate...and good! NOt many (if any) at Duke.

Univ. of Georgia, for example, marches 450 kids...and they have tryouts! Many kids practice for the audition. At Duke, the only bribery (other than having fun) is that you must play at football games in order to play for basketball games.

They do a great job...In any event, the kids in the band do care, the question is why few kids want to perform in the band.

[Indoor66]

As a former "DUMBer" from the late 70's and a much too involved chaperone parent of 3 high school marching band kids (marching 200+ kids) for 8 years ( one of whom is now in this year's DUMB) , I have gotten to know a bit about marching bands.

As stated by others, look to the mix of brass and woodwinds. More brass, more sound. DUMB takes what it can get. Look also to the number of kids who aspire to music careers and especially as school music teachers. These guys are passionate...and good! NOt many (if any) at Duke.

Univ. of Georgia, for example, marches 450 kids...and they have tryouts! Many kids practice for the audition. At Duke, the only bribery (other than having fun) is that you must play at football games in order to play for basketball games.

They do a great job...In any event, the kids in the band do care, the question is why few kids want to perform in the band.

I miss Jim Henry.

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

"They do a great job...In any event, the kids in the band do care, the question is why few kids want to perform in the band."

Has anybody asked them? Might they have some suggestions of their own as to how to make the experience more interesting? There are some really talented kids out there. Maybe they get weary of the same ol' same ol'. Maybe they'd make a better jazz band than marching band. Cameron would rock with a jazz band playing "Duke's Place". Just a thought.:cool:
Love, Ima

[DukeFan1000]

My fiance and I were discussing the same thing about the cheerleaders. Really to me, there is not much right about Duke football right now. Somehow I keep showing up waiting for something to turn around. To top it off we were near some recent former players. One of which sneaked in some Budweiser, while most were using foul language. They particularly were fond of dropping the f-bomb. After some really foul language, my fiance looked at one of them as she had to cover her daughter's ears. His response was what are you staring at? The sad part of that is all the children that were near by to witness all of this. There is no room for that when you are at a venue where families come with children. Take that to the parties afterwards. These guys had badges with ID #'s on them. I should have got the numbers on them and reported this. Probably would have been disregarded as most issues are with football.

If you were sitting right behind the Duke Bench on the defensive side, near the Rough Riders, I was a few rows in front of you too. I don't think he realized your daughter was there. I remember hearing someone go "SHHHHH!!!". I looked back and that was it. Sorry for that but with the frustrations going on with Duke football those things are gonna be said.

[DukeFan1000]

I think it would be great to not only move the band to the other side of the field but the student section as well. I would give the students the first 10 rows or so of the middle 4 sections. It would help get us on that side into the game project all of our noise into the face of the opponent and hopefully show a little better to recruits in for a visit.

Of course that might make the stands look even more empty on that side.


Everygame, 10 -15 rows behind the Rough Riders are empty. We need more students there.

[mapei]

I could be wrong, depending on the school and/or team, but my impression is that at some point cheerleaders stopped so much being "people who lead cheers" and started being "performers who dance and do stunts during timeouts." Most cheering at games I go to now, whether for winning or losing teams, is led by the fans, usually the students. The cheerleaders may help, but that's no longer their main role.

Maybe it's different elsewhere, but it certainly is the case at sports events I attend.

[Indoor66]

I could be wrong, depending on the school and/or team, but my impression is that at some point cheerleaders stopped so much being "people who lead cheers" and started being "performers who dance and do stunts during timeouts." Most cheering at games I go to now, whether for winning or losing teams, is led by the fans, usually the students. The cheerleaders may help, but that's no longer their main role.

Maybe it's different elsewhere, but it certainly is the case at sports events I attend.

IRRC, Duke Basketball, during the 60's while Vic Bubas was coach, implemented the dancers at half-time. This was a group separate from the cheerleaders. They did dance routines that were, to say the least, provocative. I remember one routine, in the period around '65- '67 to "The Stripper" - an instrumental by, I think, David Rose. No one left for a coke until that dance was done! It is my impression that the Duke dancers were the first of the genre, though that may be wishful thinking.... :)