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View Full Version : Weird call in the UNC game



kshepinthehouse
02-11-2017, 03:20 PM
My apologies if this has already been discussed in another thread, but does anyone think the offensive goaltending call on Tatum at the end of the UNC game was anything other than a missed call? He didn't seem to hang on the rim or use the rim to help him get the rebound.

JBDuke
02-11-2017, 03:23 PM
My apologies if this has already been discussed in another thread, but does anyone think the offensive goaltending call on Tatum at the end of the UNC game was anything other than a missed call? He didn't seem to hang on the rim or use the rim to help him get the rebound.

No, it was absolutely a good call. His dunk attempt didn't go through the net cleanly, and he grabbed the rim and pulled it down before the ball went through it. That's basket interference, by the book.

-jk
02-11-2017, 03:24 PM
My apologies if this has already been discussed in another thread, but does anyone think the offensive goaltending call on Tatum at the end of the UNC game was anything other than a missed call? He didn't seem to hang on the rim or use the rim to help him get the rebound.

It's by rule - letting rim snap back interfered with the ball. Had he hung long enough to let ball drop, it probably would have counted.

Daniel Ewing would have gotten a tech...

-jk

cato
02-11-2017, 04:56 PM
No, it was absolutely a good call. His dunk attempt didn't go through the net cleanly, and he grabbed the rim and pulled it down before the ball went through it. That's basket interference, by the book.

Indeed. IIRC, when he released the rim, it shot the ball back up off the glass.

In happier news: Kennedy Meeks may need therapy to recover from being posterized by Jayson.

SCMatt33
02-11-2017, 05:03 PM
Indeed. IIRC, when he released the rim, it shot the ball back up off the glass.

In happier news: Kennedy Meeks may need therapy to recover from being posterized by Jayson.

It did. I think Mike Eades probably mentioned how that went when he made an upward motion with his thumb during his explanation to Coach K. Of course, that's reading a lot into a hand motion, but either way, it was absolutely the correct call.

richardjackson199
02-11-2017, 06:18 PM
I thought the last 2 foul calls on Grayson, however, were a little suspect. It looked to me like he had a right to fight legally over a screen to defend, and on the last one he looked like he was backing away a little, trying to defend without fouling. In a game that big, I'd expect more blatant fouls at home to sit our best player who was playing lights out with 8:30 left, and then to foul him out with the game on the line.

But it ended up being great for the team to step up and finish it off.

-jk
02-11-2017, 06:22 PM
I thought the last 2 foul calls on Grayson, however, were a little suspect. It looked to me like he had a right to fight legally over a screen to defend, and on the last one he looked like he was backing away a little, trying to defend without fouling. In a game that big, I'd expect more blatant fouls at home to sit our best player who was playing lights out with 8:30 left, and then to foul him out with the game on the line.

But it ended up being great for the team to step up and finish it off.

For his fourth, Grayson was hip-checked into the foul - bad call. For his fifth, he brought his arm down for a block, missed the ball but caught arm - good call.

Generally, the refs "let 'em play". I still miss flowy hoops.

-jk

Bob Green
02-11-2017, 06:48 PM
For his fourth, Grayson was hip-checked into the foul - bad call.

I'd say missed call rather than bad call. There is no doubt Allen fouled Berry but the refs missed Meeks fouling Allen first. Overall, I thought the refs did a great job.

Papa John
02-11-2017, 06:51 PM
I'd say missed call rather than bad call. There is no doubt Allen fouled Berry but the refs missed Meeks fouling Allen first. Overall, I thought the refs did a great job.

The refs missed Meeks fouling a few folks throughout the night... But overall, I agree that ultimately the refs were not a determining factor in the outcome, which is exactly what you want from the officials in a big game.

OldPhiKap
02-11-2017, 07:01 PM
I'd say missed call rather than bad call. There is no doubt Allen fouled Berry but the refs missed Meeks fouling Allen first. Overall, I thought the refs did a great job.

Agreed. The game had flow, the calls were pretty good. I though it was a well-reffed game.

DukieInBrasil
02-11-2017, 07:28 PM
The refs missed Meeks fouling a few folks throughout the night... But overall, I agree that ultimately the refs were not a determining factor in the outcome, which is exactly what you want from the officials in a big game.

they missed Meeks hitting Tatum in the face with his elbow/forearm on the posterizing dunk.

BD80
02-11-2017, 07:36 PM
they missed Meeks hitting Tatum in the face with his elbow/forearm on the posterizing dunk.

To be fair to the refs, it is hard to see that contact when you are laughing so hard your eyes tear up ...

-bdbd
02-11-2017, 08:55 PM
The refs missed Meeks fouling a few folks throughout the night... But overall, I agree that ultimately the refs were not a determining factor in the outcome, which is exactly what you want from the officials in a big game.

Though I didn't feel like the refs did us any big favors in this one - only Duke had someone foul out (one of our starters/stars) and another get his 4th early, thus limiting his minutes, I am told that IC had multiple strings over the last 48 hrs whining about how the refs cost dem heelz the game (despite Duke being in foul trouble all night, and having 19 fouls vs their 15, even after some late intentional ones)... Of course.

And yes, on the posterizing play, Meeks did hit Tatum on the head and arm. 'guess they felt he'd already suffered enough embarrassment! Also yes that Meeks (moving) hip-checked Allen into the dribbler on foul call #4. But clearly, "Meeks doesn't foul." Ha!

Now back to IC.

SCMatt33
02-11-2017, 09:38 PM
Though I didn't feel like the refs did us any big favors in this one - only Duke had someone foul out (one of our starters/stars) and another get his 4th early, thus limiting his minutes, I am told that IC had multiple strings over the last 48 hrs whining about how the refs cost dem heelz the game (despite Duke being in foul trouble all night, and having 19 fouls vs their 15, even after some late intentional ones)... Of course.

And yes, on the posterizing play, Meeks did hit Tatum on the head and arm. 'guess they felt he'd already suffered enough embarrassment! Also yes that Meeks (moving) hip-checked Allen into the dribbler on foul call #4. But clearly, "Meeks doesn't foul." Ha!

Now back to IC.

Matt Jones also hit Justin Jackson's arm on a shot in the first half. Calls are missed. This goes for Duke fans and non-Duke fans alike. I don't understand how people don't expect perfection out of athletes, but demand absolute perfection out of refs and complain on any missed call and will conveniently ignore missed calls the other way. It seems like after every game, there are fans of both teams who complain about. Calls that went against them. Then these same people complain about how replays slow the game down! I feel like a good 20-30% of foul calls could reasonably go either way, like if you showed 100 refs the video, at least a significant number would dissent from the majority, but fans think their teams should obviously get 100% of those calls. The refs Thursday (and most days) are pretty darn good at their jobs.

Ok, there's my little rant on ref complaints. Needed to get that out...

Olympic Fan
02-11-2017, 09:46 PM
I agree on the offensive interference call on Tatum, although if you watch that play on replay, you'll see that as Tatum starts his move to the basket, a Carolina defender grabs a handful of his jersey and rips it out of his pants .... it was more egregious than the other grab that the refs missed -- just before Meeks' missed dunk, Amile grabbed his jersey as he maneuvered to receive the pass. Despite what Bilas and company said about the play, Amile's (non-called) foul had nothing to do with the missed dunk -- he had let go long before Meek spun around him and went up for the dunk attempt.

However, the most baffling call came in the first half when Jackson was called for his second foul for hip checking Grayson to the floor in the backcourt.

Only they gave the foul to Robinson. K asked for a review, but even after looking at it, they gave the foul to Robinson. On replay, I thought it was absolutely clear that the foul was on Jackson ... I don't understand that one.

tbyers11
02-11-2017, 09:55 PM
I agree on the offensive interference call on Tatum, although if you watch that play on replay, you'll see that as Tatum starts his move to the basket, a Carolina defender grabs a handful of his jersey and rips it out of his pants ... it was more egregious than the other grab that the refs missed -- just before Meeks' missed dunk, Amile grabbed his jersey as he maneuvered to receive the pass. Despite what Bilas and company said about the play, Amile's (non-called) foul had nothing to do with the missed dunk -- he had let go long before Meek spun around him and went up for the dunk attempt.

However, the most baffling call came in the first half when Jackson was called for his second foul for hip checking Grayson to the floor in the backcourt.

Only they gave the foul to Robinson. K asked for a review, but even after looking at it, they gave the foul to Robinson. On replay, I thought it was absolutely clear that the foul was on Jackson ... I don't understand that one.

I thought it was clearly on Jackson as well until I watched the replay. Robinson grabs Allen jersey as he starts to run up the court. I think Jackson fouled him as well but the shirt grab by Robinson occurred first.

kshepinthehouse
02-11-2017, 10:15 PM
Just to be clear I wasn't complaining about the refs in this game. I thought it was well reffed, and unlike TV teddy in the wake game, the refs stayed in the background. I thought this was a missed call because it looked to me that he missed the dunk and got his own rebound. I guess what you guys are saying is that instead of dunking it, he dropped the ball like a layup and then grabbed the rim. Therefore interfering with his own shot.

CDu
02-11-2017, 10:21 PM
Just to be clear I wasn't complaining about the refs in this game. I thought it was well reffed, and unlike TV teddy in the wake game, the refs stayed in the background. I thought this was a missed call because it looked to me that he missed the dunk and got his own rebound. I guess what you guys are saying is that instead of dunking it, he dropped the ball like a layup and then grabbed the rim. Therefore interfering with his own shot.

No, he was dunking it. But the problem with a missed dunk is that you are then hanging on the rim, which isn't legal while the ball is in play. Hanging is okay with a made dunk because it is then a dead ball situation and the rim hanging doesn't affect play. But with a missed dunk, the ball is still in play. Frequently, the ball bounces so far off the rim that the dunker hanging doesn't interfere with play, and the refs let it slide. But in Tatum's case, it did interfere with the play because the ball stayed on the cylinder. So it was a violation.

gam7
02-11-2017, 10:45 PM
There was another weird call (or perhaps just described weirdly by Shulman. After the 8 minute TV timeout in the first half, Shulman said that Duke requested a review of who the last UNC foul was called on and as a result of the review, Duke was charged with a 30-second timeout. Bilas said that he thought Duke wanted a review to see if there was a flagrant foul. Huh? I didn't know that a team could request a review and then be penalized with a timeout as a result of the review. Does anyone understand what actually happened there?

tbyers11
02-11-2017, 11:03 PM
There was another weird call (or perhaps just described weirdly by Shulman. After the 8 minute TV timeout in the first half, Shulman said that Duke requested a review of who the last UNC foul was called on and as a result of the review, Duke was charged with a 30-second timeout. Bilas said that he thought Duke wanted a review to see if there was a flagrant foul. Huh? I didn't know that a team could request a review and then be penalized with a timeout as a result of the review. Does anyone understand what actually happened there?

That is the situation Olympic Fan is referring to a few posts up. K requested a review (the ability of a coach to request a review, with a penalty of a lost timeout if wrong, has been around for a few years) because he thought the foul was on Jackson and not Robinson. I guess it could be worth your use-or-lose first half timeout to get a second foul on Jackson with 8 minutes left in the first half.

Ima Facultiwyfe
02-12-2017, 12:02 AM
Indeed. IIRC, when he released the rim, it shot the ball back up off the glass.

In happier news: Kennedy Meeks may need therapy to recover from being posterized by Jayson.

Best sign in Cameron this afternoon was a big tombstone that said "Here lies Kennedy Meeks".
Love, Ima

campered
02-12-2017, 11:43 AM
For his fourth, Grayson was hip-checked into the foul - bad call. For his fifth, he brought his arm down for a block, missed the ball but caught arm - good call.

Generally, the refs "let 'em play". I still miss flowy hoops.

-jkNo one could have explained that call any better!!