To Stay at Duke or Go Pro? Harry Giles

[DukeTrinity11]

I don't like to reference Bleacher Report articles but I thought this one was fairly informative and addressed some of the major questions regarding the decision Harry will have to make after this season ends.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2691817-stay-or-go-former-top-nba-prospect-harry-giles-faces-impossible-question

My opinion is that if he can get a $10 million dollar insurance policy from Lloyd's, he should return to Duke next year to show the world why he was considered one of the best HS prospects in this generation just 2 summers ago. The difference between being a mid-first round pick in the 2017 Draft and a top 5 pick in the 2018 NBA Draft is $15M+.

What do you all think?

[Bob Green]

Really? On Rivalry Night? Why don't we discuss the big game and worry about this topic in April.

[UNCfan]

I wonder if he has considered shutting it down for the season? NCAA football players have shut their seasons down before bowl games to avoid injury. Its different for basketball with the NCAA tourney, if you make the field you have a shot at a title. Thoughts?

[DukeTrinity11]

Really? On Rivalry Night? Why don't we discuss the big game and worry about this topic in April.
These topics are mutually exclusive right? There's no reason why people can't talk about the game tonight and have an ongoing discussion about this as well.

I hope Harry rejects and posterizes Meeks tonight by the way. :D

[OldPhiKap]

He should get to the end of the year and evaluate. As should we.

[Steven43]

I wonder if he has considered shutting it down for the season? NCAA football players have shut their seasons down before bowl games to avoid injury. Its different for basketball with the NCAA tourney, if you make the field you have a shot at a title. Thoughts?

Dude, really? Just hours away from Duke-UNC? You took it too far, son.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Locking... in 3, 2, 1...

[sagegrouse]

I wonder if he has considered shutting it down for the season? NCAA football players have shut their seasons down before bowl games to avoid injury. Its different for basketball with the NCAA tourney, if you make the field you have a shot at a title. Thoughts?

These basketball players are among the most competitive people on earth. They want to play, and -- it seems -- Giles and others have totally bought into K and the team. Besides, the rust is very evident, and he needs to play, even if it's mostly practice.

McCaffrey skipped a meaningless bowl game. Plus, he seems to have had the complete support of his teammates. McCaffrey comes from a family of professional athletes.

Leonard Fournette skipped LSU's bowl game. I know less of his background.

This is two (and there may have been a couple of others) out of hundreds of college seniors and potential draft picks.

[rsvman]

I wonder if he has considered shutting it down for the season? NCAA football players have shut their seasons down before bowl games to avoid injury. Its different for basketball with the NCAA tourney, if you make the field you have a shot at a title. Thoughts?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdghRwWfaOQ

[AtlDuke72]

I wonder if he has considered shutting it down for the season? NCAA football players have shut their seasons down before bowl games to avoid injury. Its different for basketball with the NCAA tourney, if you make the field you have a shot at a title. Thoughts?

The last thing Giles needs to do is sit out. He sat out for two years and it shows. No team with any sense would draft him at the top of the draft based on what he has done this year.

[jv001]

I think Harry had a well spoken interview about skipping the season and getting ready for the NBA Draft. My memory is not what it used to be but I believe he said he was all in for Duke University and has loved Duke for a long time. GoDuke!

[MChambers]

I don't like to reference Bleacher Report articles but I thought this one was fairly informative and addressed some of the major questions regarding the decision Harry will have to make after this season ends.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2691817-stay-or-go-former-top-nba-prospect-harry-giles-faces-impossible-question

My opinion is that if he can get a $10 million dollar insurance policy from Lloyd's, he should return to Duke next year to show the world why he was considered one of the best HS prospects in this generation just 2 summers ago. The difference between being a mid-first round pick in the 2017 Draft and a top 5 pick in the 2018 NBA Draft is $15M+.

What do you all think?
It was a good article, I thought, a big surprise coming from BR. Thanks for sharing it, even if the timing wasn't the best.

I agree with others that Harry can't sit out. I think he's got two pretty good choices for a guy who's had two ACL reconstructions (I have one myself, albeit back when the doctors were using leeches). I think it's very hard for someone with Harry's incredible reputation to come back for another year, but I'd love to see more of him in a Duke uniform.

[MartyClark]

I don't like to reference Bleacher Report articles but I thought this one was fairly informative and addressed some of the major questions regarding the decision Harry will have to make after this season ends.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2691817-stay-or-go-former-top-nba-prospect-harry-giles-faces-impossible-question

My opinion is that if he can get a $10 million dollar insurance policy from Lloyd's, he should return to Duke next year to show the world why he was considered one of the best HS prospects in this generation just 2 summers ago. The difference between being a mid-first round pick in the 2017 Draft and a top 5 pick in the 2018 NBA Draft is $15M+.

What do you all think?


What's the premium on a $10 million policy? It has to be a huge, 6 figure premium. How could Giles or his family afford to pay it without getting help from an agent? Would it be a violation of NCAA rules to the Giles family to syndicate this risk and have investors pay the premium in return for a share of Gile's future NBA earnings ?

I'm not arguing this point with you but I am genuinely curious on these issues and wonder how the kids mentioned in the article were able to pay for the policy.

[downtowndevil]

What's the premium on a $10 million policy? It has to be a huge, 6 figure premium. How could Giles or his family afford to pay it without getting help from an agent? Would it be a violation of NCAA rules to the Giles family to syndicate this risk and have investors pay the premium in return for a share of Gile's future NBA earnings ?

I'm not arguing this point with you but I am genuinely curious on these issues and wonder how the kids mentioned in the article were able to pay for the policy.

http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/insurance/student-athlete-insurance-programs

"Exceptional Student-Athlete Disability Insurance Program"

Maximum coverages available under the program are:

Men’s Basketball $10 million

Football $10 million

Baseball $5 million

Men’s Ice Hockey $3 million

Women’s Basketball $250,000

[FerryFor50]

Not happening. He's had 2 knee surgeries and is likely a guaranteed top 15 pick. Take the money and run.

[gocanes0506]

I read it and admit it's a tough choice.

I would come back for 2 reasons:

1. More to gain than to lose. If he comes back and does well its a potential 21 million gain. I believe 2.525 mil a year isn't worth 8.75 mil tomorrow. And ifhe doesn't do well and falls lower then his price goes down to 1.825 mil a year. IMO the potential of gaining 3+ times the money is worth the risk of losing 30%.

2. Even if the apocalyptic scenario of him losing his career to another injury, he'll be closer to a degree from Duke. On top of that it is early enough in his studies to change to a high grossing major (granted he may be there now but I haven't looked).

[MartyClark]

http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/insurance/student-athlete-insurance-programs

"Exceptional Student-Athlete Disability Insurance Program"

Maximum coverages available under the program are:

Men’s Basketball $10 million

Football $10 million

Baseball $5 million

Men’s Ice Hockey $3 million

Women’s Basketball $250,000

Thanks, I was not aware of this.

[Troublemaker]

I read it and admit it's a tough choice.

I would come back for 2 reasons:

1. More to gain than to lose. If he comes back and does well its a potential 21 million gain. I believe 2.525 mil a year isn't worth 8.75 mil tomorrow. And ifhe doesn't do well and falls lower then his price goes down to 1.825 mil a year. IMO the potential of gaining 3+ times the money is worth the risk of losing 30%.

2. Even if the apocalyptic scenario of him losing his career to another injury, he'll be closer to a degree from Duke. On top of that it is early enough in his studies to change to a high grossing major (granted he may be there now but I haven't looked).

He's not going to risk the $2.5 mil. If he were already wealthy, I could see your logic, but he and his family almost certainly feel like there's more to lose than gain.

[MrPoon]

I've actually thought and talked to other Duke fans about this a lot.
To me this paragraph sums up the decision:
That line of thinking goes like this: In the NBA, big money comes with the second deal, not the first. If you're going to put your fragile body on the line, don't do it when you're playing for free in college. Do it when you already have money in your pocket—when you can play without abandon, knowing that if you get hurt again, you won't suddenly go broke.

If we KNEW, absolutely KNEW his knew would hold up, I'd come back. K will get him, in a softer draft, into the top five, I'm sure of it with an entire off season of training. But we don't know that and so...K needs to work the phones for this wonderful young man and if he can go to a good organization Trailblazers, Mavs, Pistons (my beloved Nuggets if they fall out of the playoffs as I suspect they will) with patience, he has to go. Has to. Has to. It's sad but life sometimes works this way.

After Jabari's injury yesterday or the day before, Giles, has to go and change the life of his future children.

[MChambers]

The article doesn't consider one cost of an additional year of college: it's another year before you get out from under the rookie salary limits. So it's not considering the loss of one very big year (we hope) of future earnings. Of course, if Harry has a great career, he'll make a ton either way, but that also has to be a factor.

[gam7]

I don't like to reference Bleacher Report articles but I thought this one was fairly informative and addressed some of the major questions regarding the decision Harry will have to make after this season ends.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2691817-stay-or-go-former-top-nba-prospect-harry-giles-faces-impossible-question

My opinion is that if he can get a $10 million dollar insurance policy from Lloyd's, he should return to Duke next year to show the world why he was considered one of the best HS prospects in this generation just 2 summers ago. The difference between being a mid-first round pick in the 2017 Draft and a top 5 pick in the 2018 NBA Draft is $15M+.

What do you all think?

Zero chance he stays. Every single year there is an article around this time of year that usually includes quotes from the expected OAD player in question (this one does not even have that), where the player talks about how much they are enjoying their time in college and they haven't made a final decision to leave after the season. Other times it is a purely speculative opinion piece saying that they would be wise to (or might decide to) return.There was one for Kyrie (http://www.foxsports.com/college-basketball/story/duke-freshman-kyrie-irving-could-return-for-sophomore-season-032311). There was one for Jahlil (http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2015/02/13/jahlil-okafor-addresses-possibility-of-staying-at-duke/). In addition for Jah, there was the article talking about how he attended Capel's kid's second bday party and he just might want to come back. There was one for Jabari (http://www.foxsports.com/college-basketball/story/one-and-not-done-jabari-parker-reportedly-could-return-to-duke-next-season-012014). There was one for Austin (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1109472-duke-basketball-austin-rivers-would-be-wise-to-return-for-sophomore-season). I remember there being one for Brandon, but can't find it at the moment.

Ain't happening.

[WillJ]

Ain't happening.

This is accurate.

[MartyClark]

I've actually thought and talked to other Duke fans about this a lot.
To me this paragraph sums up the decision:
That line of thinking goes like this: In the NBA, big money comes with the second deal, not the first. If you're going to put your fragile body on the line, don't do it when you're playing for free in college. Do it when you already have money in your pocket—when you can play without abandon, knowing that if you get hurt again, you won't suddenly go broke.

If we KNEW, absolutely KNEW his knew would hold up, I'd come back. K will get him, in a softer draft, into the top five, I'm sure of it with an entire off season of training. But we don't know that and so...K needs to work the phones for this wonderful young man and if he can go to a good organization Trailblazers, Mavs, Pistons (my beloved Nuggets if they fall out of the playoffs as I suspect they will) with patience, he has to go. Has to. Has to. It's sad but life sometimes works this way.

After Jabari's injury yesterday or the day before, Giles, has to go and change the life of his future children.

Good insight but I have to disagree with you on Giles going to the Nuggets. I live in Denver. I don't think the Nuggets are a good organization. I think the Kroenke family does not make winning a priority. I'd like to see a better team for Giles.

I love Denver. What's not to like? Beer, marijuana, weather, hiking and skiing. I just don't think the Nuggets are a good organization and wish better for Giles.

Go Duke! Best wishes to Giles for the rest of this season and his career.

[MrPoon]

I know Giles is the shining star for what he once was and could be once again. More interesting to me is the direction of Bolden (sorry maybe wrong thread). Bolden was some times talked about as a 1 and gone. Hard to see that working as well. Less glowing tape to go off of from years past. For me he is the better story, less tragic story. With a full off season and a strong, deep roster, I think he could be a breast next year along with Carter.

I promise I'm not tying to start a minutes debate here!!!!! But I really do like Bolden and I really want the best for this young man who made a commitment despite Giles already there and the risk of diminished playing time. That is a sign of someone committed for all the right reasons.

[duke74]

Good insight but I have to disagree with you on Giles going to the Nuggets. I live in Denver. I don't think the Nuggets are a good organization. I think the Kroenke family does not make winning a priority. I'd like to see a better team for Giles.

I love Denver. What's not to like? Beer, marijuana, weather, hiking and skiing. I just don't think the Nuggets are a good organization and wish better for Giles.

Go Duke! Best wishes to Giles for the rest of this season and his career.

Better than my Knicks...by far! (PS, want MElo back?)

[MrPoon]

Good insight but I have to disagree with you on Giles going to the Nuggets. I live in Denver. I don't think the Nuggets are a good organization. I think the Kroenke family does not make winning a priority. I'd like to see a better team for Giles.

I love Denver. What's not to like? Beer, marijuana, weather, hiking and skiing. I just don't think the Nuggets are a good organization and wish better for Giles.

Go Duke! Best wishes to Giles for the rest of this season and his career.

Kroenke is a business genius, he found the one business that being truely terrible at it can still reap you untold riches.... sports. He has NO record of success in any franchise he owns. Arsenal, Nuggets, Avs, Rams. The Rams had the worst NFL record in the last ten year and were "punished" by going to LA where he'll make a fortune. But I am a Denver native and can't help myself. Maybe Giles will be sooooo good that he'll overcome the Kroenke curse. So your saying there is a chance?????:rolleyes:

[MartyClark]

Kroenke is a business genius, he found the one business that being truely terrible at it can still reap you untold riches... sports. He has NO record of success in any franchise he owns. Arsenal, Nuggets, Avs, Rams. The Rams had the worst NFL record in the last ten year and were "punished" by going to LA where he'll make a fortune. But I am a Denver native and can't help myself. Maybe Giles will be sooooo good that he'll overcome the Kroenke curse. So your saying there is a chance?????:rolleyes:

Thanks. My wife is a north Denver native, Holy Family High. She lured me to Denver from Chicago in 1982 and I love it here.

You are right that Kroenke is a business genius. Best wishes.

[swagilicious]

I read it and admit it's a tough choice.

I would come back for 2 reasons:

1. More to gain than to lose. If he comes back and does well its a potential 21 million gain. I believe 2.525 mil a year isn't worth 8.75 mil tomorrow. And ifhe doesn't do well and falls lower then his price goes down to 1.825 mil a year. IMO the potential of gaining 3+ times the money is worth the risk of losing 30%.

2. Even if the apocalyptic scenario of him losing his career to another injury, he'll be closer to a degree from Duke. On top of that it is early enough in his studies to change to a high grossing major (granted he may be there now but I haven't looked).

You do realize hes torn his acl twice...its really not likely he will be player of the year if he comes back (ask rg3 how tough it is to come back from 2 acl tears). I wouldnt even be surprised if he didnt start next year. If a team is willing to take him first round this year, take the money and run.

[Dev11]

Good insight but I have to disagree with you on Giles going to the Nuggets. I live in Denver. I don't think the Nuggets are a good organization. I think the Kroenke family does not make winning a priority. I'd like to see a better team for Giles.

I love Denver. What's not to like? Beer, marijuana, weather, hiking and skiing. I just don't think the Nuggets are a good organization and wish better for Giles.

Go Duke! Best wishes to Giles for the rest of this season and his career.

In the six years I've lived here, the Nuggets have yet to employ a Duke player, unless I just totally missed it. Not that I'm inclined to jump into Nuggets fandom, but it would be an excuse to see decidedly mediocre professional basketball.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

With a full off season and a strong, deep roster, I think he could be a breast next year along with Carter.

Well then, yes they would make quite an impressive pair, er, on the court.

[arnie]

No doubt Harry should go pro if he's a lottery pick. He's a strong rebounder and can catch the ball near the basket and finish. Beyond that, I don't see the skill set. Recognize, he's missed a lot of time, bit doesn't seem to have court awareness or comfort driving inside.

I don't see the NBA all star potential, but if scouts do that's all that counts and he'll be a very rich man.

[dukelifer]

No doubt Harry should go pro if he's a lottery pick. He's a strong rebounder and can catch the ball near the basket and finish. Beyond that, I don't see the skill set. Recognize, he's missed a lot of time, bit doesn't seem to have court awareness or comfort driving inside.

I don't see the NBA all star potential, but if scouts do that's all that counts and he'll be a very rich man.

The big concern with Harry is his physical. If he knees are an issue he could easily fall out of the lottery and even into the second round. Giles has not shown the explosiveness he showed in high school. He is probably playing at 70-75% of the speed he once possessed. You can see the talent is under the surface but Harry would not be able to play in the NBA next year with today's body. The NBA game is so fast and powerful. The doctors will have a big say on his draft status.

[camion]

The big concern with Harry is his physical. If he knees are an issue he could easily fall out of the lottery and even into the second round. Giles has not shown the explosiveness he showed in high school. He is probably playing at 70-75% of the speed he once possessed. You can see the talent is under the surface but Harry would not be able to play in the NBA next year with today's body. The NBA game is so fast and powerful. The doctors will have a big say on his draft status.

If I were older Giles (age 40 or so) I would advise my younger self to give it another year in college to build myself up more physically and become more mature. That's an easy call to make looking back I think. Looking forward as a teenager I think it's an easy call in the other direction. Get to the big time dream of the NBA and get the paycheck ASAP.

Of course the fast track to the NBA could be derailed by the physical exam. We shall see.

[WVDUKEFAN]

He'll probably go, although I think he would benefit by staying, and by that, I mean he would have another year to mature and completely heal. As much hype as there is about him, there is equally an amount of uncertainty. He could go from a first round pick this year to an overall No. 1 next year. Lastly, he hasn't even taken Amile Jefferson's starting spot ....

[tecumseh]

Thanks. My wife is a north Denver native, Holy Family High. She lured me to Denver from Chicago in 1982 and I love it here.

You are right that Kroenke is a business genius. Best wishes.

Kroenke's best business play by far was he married well, he built strip shopping malls with a Walmart store as the anchor tenant. Any aggressive retailer would have had the money going to them not some third party but when your wife is a Walton.....

[dyedwab]

I realize that it is unlikely that Giles stays, but I want to make a couple of points

1) Staying or leaving for someone who isn't a top 5 lottery pick, isn't a clear cut as a lot of people make it seem. Given the salary slotting of rookies, if it is possible for a player to raise his draft stock from 20-25 to top 10, he can double (or more) the value of his initial contract. So, it fairly obvious for a Top 5 pick - not as much for late first rounders

2) Giles' situation has no precedent. Before his injuries, he was generally regarded as both the best player in his class and a potential generational talent. But his injuries have limited his play for two years since that assessment was made. So aside from the normal questions of potential, etc., the question of what have the injuries and lack of playing time done to his development are real.

Again, as the article states, a team drafting him is drafting him on both potential and a memory of that potential. The answer may end up being the same as every other OAD, but the calculations going into it are unique.

[dukelifer]

If I were older Giles (age 40 or so) I would advise my younger self to give it another year in college to build myself up more physically and become more mature. That's an easy call to make looking back I think. Looking forward as a teenager I think it's an easy call in the other direction. Get to the big time dream of the NBA and get the paycheck ASAP.

Of course the fast track to the NBA could be derailed by the physical exam. We shall see.

He should go if he can. He would benefit from some medical evaluation to be sure he will not fall out of the first round. But the transition will not be easy for him. He has to regain his explosiveness and lateral quickness to be of any value at the next level. That could take another year barring any new injury. Nothing you can do about bad knees but hope for the best.

[Dukebasketball2020]

I think right now guys that are for sure leaving after this year are
Matt Jones- Leaving used up all eligibility
Jefferson- used up all his years
Tatum- First round pick
Giles- First round pick.

Here is where it gets interesting. I think Frank Jackson and Bolden both come back no matter what. Here is my question what does Allen or Kennard do? I believe Allen is going to show back up on the draft boards soon and Kennard will stay all year in the late first round. I think 1 of them will go and 1 will stay but I could see a case where both leave and both stay.
Can you imagine a team looking like this

PG: Duval back up Jackson
SG: Kennard Gary Trent JR.
SF: Kevin Knox back up javon D
PF: Wendell Carter Chase Jeter
C: Bolden Vrank

[Indoor66]

He should go if he can. He would benefit from some medical evaluation to be sure he will not fall out of the first round. But the transition will not be easy for him. He has to regain his explosiveness and lateral quickness to be of any value at the next level. That could take another year barring any new injury. Nothing you can do about bad knees but hope for the best.

If you are a savvy NBA GM you reach the same conclusion you just did: "Nothing you can do about bad knees but hope for the best." Why do you roll the dice on two issues? Potential is the question. Potential question + serious question about physical ability to play because of the knees would push him to the 2nd round if you would draft him at all. There are more than enough failures with healthy potential! Let him come back and resolve at least one of the issues.

[Highlander]

In the six years I've lived here, the Nuggets have yet to employ a Duke player, unless I just totally missed it. Not that I'm inclined to jump into Nuggets fandom, but it would be an excuse to see decidedly mediocre professional basketball.

This just broke. You are in luck. :)
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18671857/denver-nuggets-get-mason-plumlee-trade-portland-trailblazers

[lotusland]

Good insight but I have to disagree with you on Giles going to the Nuggets. I live in Denver. I don't think the Nuggets are a good organization. I think the Kroenke family does not make winning a priority. I'd like to see a better team for Giles.

I love Denver. What's not to like? Beer, marijuana, weather, hiking and skiing. I just don't think the Nuggets are a good organization and wish better for Giles.

Go Duke! Best wishes to Giles for the rest of this season and his career.

Well bad news for MP2 then

[MChambers]

I realize that it is unlikely that Giles stays, but I want to make a couple of points

1) Staying or leaving for someone who isn't a top 5 lottery pick, isn't a clear cut as a lot of people make it seem. Given the salary slotting of rookies, if it is possible for a player to raise his draft stock from 20-25 to top 10, he can double (or more) the value of his initial contract. So, it fairly obvious for a Top 5 pick - not as much for late first rounders

2) Giles' situation has no precedent. Before his injuries, he was generally regarded as both the best player in his class and a potential generational talent. But his injuries have limited his play for two years since that assessment was made. So aside from the normal questions of potential, etc., the question of what have the injuries and lack of playing time done to his development are real.

Again, as the article states, a team drafting him is drafting him on both potential and a memory of that potential. The answer may end up being the same as every other OAD, but the calculations going into it are unique.
On 1), aren't you ignoring that it would cost Harry a year of NBA salary, after he finishes his initial rookie contract? And the contract after your rookie contract is when a player can hit it big?

I still think it's not clear cut, but from a financial point of view, I think it is very unlikely Harry would come out ahead by staying another year.

[dukelifer]

I think right now guys that are for sure leaving after this year are
Matt Jones- Leaving used up all eligibility
Jefferson- used up all his years
Tatum- First round pick
Giles- First round pick.

Here is where it gets interesting. I think Frank Jackson and Bolden both come back no matter what. Here is my question what does Allen or Kennard do? I believe Allen is going to show back up on the draft boards soon and Kennard will stay all year in the late first round. I think 1 of them will go and 1 will stay but I could see a case where both leave and both stay.
Can you imagine a team looking like this

PG: Duval back up Jackson
SG: Kennard Gary Trent JR.
SF: Kevin Knox back up javon D
PF: Wendell Carter Chase Jeter
C: Bolden Vrank

Don't forget Alex O'Connell and Jack White.

[Pghdukie]

Coach K will sit down with each player after the season and critique each individual. K has the knowledge and experience to give input as to Player A should stay or leave early. Player has final decision. Player would be a wise man to listen to what the GOAT has to say. Just my $.02 worth.

[CDu]

I think right now guys that are for sure leaving after this year are
Matt Jones- Leaving used up all eligibility
Jefferson- used up all his years
Tatum- First round pick
Giles- First round pick.

Here is where it gets interesting. I think Frank Jackson and Bolden both come back no matter what. Here is my question what does Allen or Kennard do? I believe Allen is going to show back up on the draft boards soon and Kennard will stay all year in the late first round. I think 1 of them will go and 1 will stay but I could see a case where both leave and both stay.
Can you imagine a team looking like this

PG: Duval back up Jackson
SG: Kennard Gary Trent JR.
SF: Kevin Knox back up javon D
PF: Wendell Carter Chase Jeter
C: Bolden Vrank

1. DeLaurier is not a SF in college, he is a PF
2. Carter and Jeter are/will be Cs in college, not PFs
3. You omitted O'Connell and White (both SFs), but they likely wouldn't crack the rotation anyway

That team would have some of the same issues as this one: too many guys playing the post without the perimeter game or mobility to play the college 4. In that scenario (if we get Knox and Duval), I would expect to see one of Trent and Jackson starting alongside Duval, Kennard, Knox, and Bolden/Carter.

But there are a lot of moving parts still (Bolden, Kennard could go; anyone could transfer; Knox and Duval aren't Dukies yet). So it is kind of a silly discussion.

[fuse]

Crossing over from the 1999 thread.

Maggette averaged 11 points, 4 rebounds in under 18 mpg and shocked the Duke community by coming out after his freshman year.

Pretty sure no one will be shocked if and when Giles leaves with inferior stats.