MBB: Duke 72, Pitt 64 Post-Game Thread

[JBDuke]

Put your post-game thoughts here.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Lol. Some things never change

[OldPhiKap]

Gray-son All-en!

{clap, clap, clapclapclap}

[FerryFor50]

That bench got short real quick.

At least it's a win.

[devilnfla]

I don't get Giles getting zero minutes in the 2nd half.

[Bob Green]

Solid victory! Pitt is a lot better than their 1-9 ACC record. It was touch and go early, but once our 3 PT FGs started dropping, order was restored. Grayson Allen took over down the stretch.

[NM Duke Fan]

Grind it out and find a way when cold from outside. Perhaps could have used a bit more creativity to break down the zone, but Tatum was key in the earlier parts of the second half, and then Allen just took over as his shots began to fall. Hats off to Pitt, a team with some really good, physical players and a good game plan, they made it tough! Now to get ready for one of the games of the year. Get well soon Matt!

[WillJ]

Pitt was tough. Good win.

[devilnfla]

Amile's defense was average at best today.

Oh, and I received an ESPN alert that Grayson Allen was called for a tripping foul. That's ridiculous that they made that call an alert.

[Bob Green]

I don't get Giles getting zero minutes in the 2nd half.

Jefferson and Tatum were both having good games and neither was in foul trouble. Giles not playing in 2nd half might be unpopular with the fans, but it was a solid coaching decision.

[rsvman]

A win is a win. Young and Artis are very good players.
Grayson really stepped up in the last six minutes. Gotta love that 3-pointer that was way short but went in anyway. Reminded me of the shot Sulaimon made from the left corner in the game against UVa a couple of years ago.

[MrPoon]

Nice workman like win.
Didn't get discouraged by misses on good shots.
Surprised how we struggled with the zone.
Kinnard not as sharp. Less from Tatum inside.
Bolden and Giles...I thought I saw them but I must be mistaken.
One day we'll need Giles and or Bolden and I hope they are ready...
Wish we could win games by enough of a cushion to develop depth.

Guess it isn't going to be that season.

[TKG]

Nothing comes easy for this team. Take the win and get prepared - mentally and physically- for Thursday.

[Saratoga2]

Thought our defense was excellent today, despite giving away size, as we went with our small lineup nearly all of the game. Harry looked good while on the floor and Bolden was there too short a period to judge.

On offense we were not hitting from outside against the zone so they stayed with us. Some nice work going inside to Amile and Harry while in. All of a sudden we started to hit from outsiide. Mainly Grayson, but also Frank and Jayson started and the game was beyond Pittsburgh's control. We did show what a lack of a point guard means at times with several passses to no where. Matt didn't look like he was nearly at 100% today with the sore ankle.

At least no serious foul trouble today. Good to see us set ourselves up for a rise in the standings on Monday.

[DukieInBrasil]

Nice workman like win.
Didn't get discouraged by misses on good shots.
Surprised how we struggled with the zone.
Kinnard not as sharp. Less from Tatum inside.
Bolden and Giles...I thought I saw them but I must be mistaken.
One day we'll need Giles and or Bolden and I hope they are ready...
Wish we could win games by enough of a cushion to develop depth.

Guess it isn't going to be that season.

try to enjoy a well-earned win vs. a tough team. Pitt lost to UNC by 2 just a couple of days ago. We play UNC next. Savor the good tidings....

[richardjackson199]

Despite cold shooting to that point, we just felt so strong, steady, and poised down the stretch with K at the steering wheel. Enjoy every game we can with the legend on our sideline.

Not much feels better than beating the heels, so let's make it happen!

[wsb3]

Bit of a strange game..at least to me..we could not shoot well for any stretch while we were doing a decent job of stopping Pitt...& then when we hit 7 straight at one point..we could not stop them enough to take control of the game..

But I am not unhappy with this win at all.. This team has gotten tougher...

& if Pitt is the worse team in the conference sign me up with the rest that say the ACC is the strongest conference..

Grayson...bad shooting game until we really had to have it & boy did he come through.. He is getting past all the crap & becoming the player we thought he would be..Best of all he looks like he is having fun playing basketball again..& I mean throughout the course of the past few games...not just because we are winning...His body language is much better- at least in my eyes..Lot of weight on such a young man's shoulders..I don't get the impression he is in the mold of Christian who thrived off being hated..but maybe he has accepted there is nothing he can do about what people think...or say..Just play ball & have fun.

With all the stuff this team has been through if we are healthy in the end we sure should be tough enough to win..

[Im4howdy]

You could really tell Coach K still has some rust he needs to knock off...

[Karl Beem]

I don't get Giles getting zero minutes in the 2nd half.

Also Vrank and Bolden not playing against the big fatty.

[BluDvlsN1]

Bolden and Giles...I thought I saw them but I must be mistaken.
One day we'll need Giles and or Bolden and I hope they are ready...

That would be Thursday!

[jv001]

I started to post at half time, watch for a shorter rotation but then we had a pretty short rotation in the first half. The starting five and then: Giles, Matt and Javin (1min) and Bolden (1). I don't remember even seeing Javin in the game, but the stats show other wise. Well it was a 6 man rotation in the 2nd half. Coach K is back, :cool: GoDuke!

[devilnfla]

Jefferson and Tatum were both having good games and neither was in foul trouble. Giles not playing in 2nd half might be unpopular with the fans, but it was a solid coaching decision.

Agree to disagree Bob. Amile was beat badly several times around the basket. I cant see how anyone would describe his game today as good. At least not good enough to shut Harry out in the 2nd half. I don't think Amile has played nearly as well since returning from his injury. On the offensive end he played decent, but that was aided early by some good guard play and penetration setting him up for some easy dunks.

If a guy like Nix can come in and give productive minutes, we should expect Giles to do the same. Giles has one thing that Amile does not. A solid 12 foot shot. That would have worked nice against that zone.

Even with zero foul trouble, Giles to spell Amile for a few minutes midway second half would have been nice. Don't forget the toughness he showed at ND late when Amile fouled out.

[davekay1971]

You could really tell Coach K still has some rust he needs to knock off...

Agreed. His jumper looked a little flat to me. You could tell early on he was trying to force the action, trying to make plays or take shots that just weren't there. And he hasn't quite recovered from his back surgery yet...his lateral quickness is a shadow of what it was at West Point. But, once he settled down a bit in the second half and started to play more within the flow of the game, he did better. A good warmup game for him before the Heels come to Cameron.

[dukelifer]

That bench got short real quick.

At least it's a win.

Will need the bigs on Thursday

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Agree to disagree Bob. Amile was beat badly several times around the basket. I cant see how anyone would describe his game today as good. At least not good enough to shut Harry out in the 2nd half. I don't think Amile has played nearly as well since returning from his injury. On the offensive end he played decent, but that was aided early by some good guard play and penetration setting him up for some easy dunks.

If a guy like Nix can come in and give productive minutes, we should expect Giles to do the same. Giles has one thing that Amile does not. A solid 12 foot shot. That would have worked nice against that zone.

Even with zero foul trouble, Giles to spell Amile for a few minutes midway second half would have been nice. Don't forget the toughness he showed at ND late when Amile fouled out.
Would the win have counted for more if the minutes distribution had been different?

[jv001]

Agree to disagree Bob. Amile was beat badly several times around the basket. I cant see how anyone would describe his game today as good. At least not good enough to shut Harry out in the 2nd half. I don't think Amile has played nearly as well since returning from his injury. On the offensive end he played decent, but that was aided early by some good guard play and penetration setting him up for some easy dunks.

If a guy like Nix can come in and give productive minutes, we should expect Giles to do the same. Giles has one thing that Amile does not. A solid 12 foot shot. That would have worked nice against that zone.

Even with zero foul trouble, Giles to spell Amile for a few minutes midway second half would have been nice. Don't forget the toughness he showed at ND late when Amile fouled out.

I'm with Bob, Amile was very good today. Made some tough shots, rebounded well, played good defense and directed the team on defense. It seems you really love Giles and want him to play. I like Harry too, but I'm not going to slam Amile because Harry didn't get but 7 minutes. As for his 12 footer he made, he's not taken many of those but he has made two that I can remember. Harry will get his time before the season is over. Just give him time. GoDuke!

[Emerrick]

GA - solid all around
Luke - average D, could be better
Matt - solid D as usual, needs to hit those open 3s
Tatum - solid all around game. No complaints on either end.
Amile - a good day for him, such a workhorse. 9 rebounds; 5 blocks
Jackson - worked hard on both ends
Giles - nice dunk and outside shot, but poor box outs and zero rebounds. He's relying on height and not his brains
Bolden - at least he played, just not long enough to really see much.

Great perimeter D. They shot 14% from 3.

Good win!

[dukefan_828]

My 0.02:

Glad to see Grayson finding his stroke... 3 20 point performances in a row! 21-6-6 very impressive college stat line
Luke due to EXPLODE against cheat after rough shooting day
If we can knock off cheat media will jump back on our bandwagon

Also not to question Coach but i do NOT understand why Giles gets such little burn!! He's 12 games back at this point and while i understand he might not be able to with stand 30 minute load he atleast needs to play 20 min. He has looked great last 2 games in the glimpses we've got and has made some defensive strides!! Got a little to excited after nasty alley & sweet mid range J! Luke missed a wide open HJ for a second alley oop would've love to seen him get the 2nd JAM! Really dont get why he didnt get in at all for the 2nd after playing about as well as possible early.. but im sure theirs method to K madness ?

Also there is going to be a point in time were this duke team is going to have to use it's depth down low.. Marquees or Vrank need to start getting atleast 10 min a Game.. Or a 5 min stretch just so when there comes a time in a tournament came where there called upon they done look totally lost?!

[jv001]

My 0.02:

Glad to see Grayson finding his stroke... 3 20 point performances in a row! 21-6-6 very impressive college stat line
Luke due to EXPLODE against cheat after rough shooting day
If we can knock off cheat media will jump back on our bandwagon

Also not to question Coach but i do NOT understand why Giles gets such little burn!! He's 12 games back at this point and while i understand he might not be able to with stand 30 minute load he atleast needs to play 20 min. He has looked great last 2 games in the glimpses we've got and has made some defensive strides!!

Also there is going to be a point in time were this duke team is going to have to use it's depth down low.. Marquees or Vrank need to start getting atleast 10 min a Game.. Or a 5 min stretch just so when there comes a time in a tournament came where there called upon they done look totally lost?!

Had either one gotten 10 minutes today, we probably lose the game. They are going to have to have some great practice sessions to get 10 minutes a game. I can't question Coach K. He's shown that he knows what he's doing. GoDuke!

[superdave]

The defense looked pretty good at times today. They got stops when they needed to and even got two shot clock violations out of Pitt. But they did leave the lane too open at times for slashers and offensive rebounds, which allowed Pitt to hang around.

The offense moved the ball better than a lot of games. This would have been a blowout if they'd hit their open jumpers. This team is so much better when guys are driving and kicking, and not trying to play hero ball.

I loved the press for several possessions. We have the depth to do it a lot more if we ....well....this is Coach K. The ceiling of this team goes up a few notches if Giles and Bolden get more minutes, we press for significant stretches and force teams to keep up. Maybe that was the plan in the pre-season, and we are where we are, but I still think we can develop Bolden and get a lot more out of Giles.

I would say this was a big step forward for the team, but it was not for Bolden and Giles, so our ceiling as a team remains lower than it could be. This was a big step forward for six guys on the team. We need Giles and Bolden to get minutes and build confidence. I know they need to earn it in practice, but we may be past that point. We either play them and grow as a team, or we do what we did today to beat Pitt then have a significantly lower ceiling in the NCAAs.

I probably should be more positive after a win, and it was a good win. But I think this team still has a chance to be special. A six man rotation does not give this team a chance to get there.

[SCMatt33]

That's probably about the final score this game deserved. Duke just missed so many wide open look for the first 30 minutes but made up for it big time in the last ten. Kevin Stallings had an excellent game plan, imo, as he basically had his guys run very conservative offense for 20 seconds, try to force some switches and take advantage of a mismatch late. Pitt got a ton of easy offense rebounds because we had our guards from the bigs when caught inside. 64 points seems good, but my quick calc from the NCAA.com box score has only 59 possessions in the game. When you add in how bad Pitt shot from deep, that's not very good. Pitt even had multiple occasions where they completely ignored wide open guys under the basket despite not feeling intense pressure on the ball. They limited all of their turnovers to dead ball situations or late shot clock passes/strips under the basket.

Duke tried to back to two bigs in the first half, and I personally thought they should have stuck with that. Yes, the offense wasn't that great in the first half with two bigs, but that was due more to missed shots than bad execution. That's not to say I thought there was a bad effort on the team's part defensively either. I saw a lot of scrappy play and some tough rebounding, especially the first two offensive rebounds of the game. But I sincerely hope that game plan was exclusive to this game because if you're gonna try switching everything and fronting big men against UNC, you'll need a lot of help from their guards to hold them under 80-90. You know, one of those games when they ask, "how come xyz big man never touched the ball in the last ten minutes"

[uh_no]

got killed by the high ball screen in the first half. why didn't Giles see time after the half? perhaps someone has clips of him trying to guard their pg.

i don't know who's call it was too make that switch over and over again, but we got lucky they didn't abuse it more than they did. Jackson guarding the human refrigerator was also amusing.

anyway, Giles can't make that switch and anile can. that's why Giles rode the pine imo

[-jk]

Individually, some matchups weren't great, but our team defense - especially the communication to work picks: switches, ices, and hedges - has been really good.

-jk

[jv001]

The defense looked pretty good at times today. They got stops when they needed to and even got two shot clock violations out of Pitt. But they did leave the lane too open at times for slashers and offensive rebounds, which allowed Pitt to hang around.

The offense moved the ball better than a lot of games. This would have been a blowout if they'd hit their open jumpers. This team is so much better when guys are driving and kicking, and not trying to play hero ball.

I loved the press for several possessions. We have the depth to do it a lot more if we ...well...this is Coach K. The ceiling of this team goes up a few notches if Giles and Bolden get more minutes, we press for significant stretches and force teams to keep up. Maybe that was the plan in the pre-season, and we are where we are, but I still think we can develop Bolden and get a lot more out of Giles.

I would say this was a big step forward for the team, but it was not for Bolden and Giles, so our ceiling as a team remains lower than it could be. This was a big step forward for six guys on the team. We need Giles and Bolden to get minutes and build confidence. I know they need to earn it in practice, but we may be past that point. We either play them and grow as a team, or we do what we did today to beat Pitt then have a significantly lower ceiling in the NCAAs.

I probably should be more positive after a win, and it was a good win. But I think this team still has a chance to be special. A six man rotation does not give this team a chance to get there.

If those shots that went in out had gone in, I believe Giles and Bolden would have gotten more minutes. But they didn't and they didn't get the minutes I would have liked them to get. I agree with you that we'll need more than a 6 man rotation to win the ACCT and the NCAAT. I think Coach K wants both Giles and Bolden to have great practices to give him confidence that they will make the plays during games. The ACC is really tough this season and all games will be like this one. GoDuke!

[Bob Green]

Agree to disagree Bob. Amile was beat badly several times around the basket. I cant see how anyone would describe his game today as good.

No problem agreeing to disagree...

Amile Jefferson stat line: 15 points, 9 rebounds, 5 blocks, 3 assists, 2 turnovers in 36 minutes.

Jefferson was solid today.

[Kedsy]

Don't look now, but if we win on Thursday, Duke will be just one game out of first place in the ACC.


We did show what a lack of a point guard means at times with several passses to no where.

Yeah, 19 assists against 8 turnovers today. But, please, let's keep that "lack of a point guard" narrative going...


I cant see how anyone would describe [Amile's] game today as good.

15 points (50% from the field 75% from the line), 9 rebounds, 3 assists, and 5 (!) blocks. Yeah, I can't imagine why they let the guy keep his scholarship if he keeps putting up lousy lines like that.

[budwom]

This is the year we'll have to play a nine man rotation for sure!

[KandG]

Strange game but a good change of pace in terms of tactics and flow, even if the game was a little too nerve-wracking until the final 9 minutes or so when Grayson Allen officially took over.

Pitt's size, zone and more deliberate pace definitely messed up our rhythm. In so many recent games, there's at least one half where we (or the other team, or both) get in the bonus with over 10 minutes left in the half; fouls weren't an issue for either team today, allowing K to play a super short rotation. We couldn't make threes (or much of anything) for most of the game, but in the final 8:46, the lid finally came off, and we scored 30 points the rest of the game after only scoring 42 points the previous 31 minutes.

Thought Jayson had a very good game in terms of playing in control and doing the most with the modest number of touches he got; probably helped that Pitt's zone removed the temptation for him to drive into traffic. His 10 point outburst to start the second half really saved us when it looked like Pitt might take control and mess with our confidence. Grayson's 16 (!) points in the final 7:22, starting with the huge standstill 3 pointer to make it 50-45 and the subsequent absurd acrobatic left hand scoop, helped establish the separation we needed to close it out.

All credit to Pitt -- Artis and Young are total studs and didn't disappoint. Really can't believe that team has only have one win in conference.

Thought Giles looked good in the limited minutes he got, but the bad start for the team in the second half probably doomed any further playing time for him. I had no issue with this, but I have no doubt he'll get much more burn the rest of the season, as he keeps improving and I doubt this Duke team will stay as foul-free in subsequent games.

A little too much lateral passing around Pitt's zone and not a lot of creativity in using a man flashing into it, but it certainly helped the passing numbers. 19 assists on 25 made FGs (9 assists on 11 FGs in the first half, 10 of 14 in the second). To some degree, this shows you how assist number totals can be deceptive: we only had 8 assists on 28 made FGs against Notre Dame (including 3 assists on 13 made FGs in the second half of that game), yet it could be argued that our offense looked at least as good and certainly more varied vs ND than it did against Pitt, where (esp in the second half) we did a lot of flinging the ball around the perimeter.

But again, we took what Pitt gave us, and I'd certainly argue that our poor shooting early was a bit anomalous. Glad to see Grayson and Frank step up with the jumpers when Luke had an off-night (he was defended very well). The team's upside is so much higher when Grayson kicks it into that extra gear not just because of his scoring, but because of what it opens up for his playmaking.

Defense was good for most of the game, though Pitt's episodes of sloppiness with the ball allowed us to get away with more switching than I think would be ideal vs better teams. Liked seeing the improved communication regardless, and Pitt's stars made some very tough shots several times even when we covered them well.

[Indoor66]

Had either one gotten 10 minutes today, we probably lose the game. They are going to have to have some great practice sessions to get 10 minutes a game. I can't question Coach K. He's shown that he knows what he's doing. GoDuke!

I agree with you. The name of the game is win. K knows his team. We have to trust him.

[superdave]

Thought Jayson had a very good game in terms of playing in control and doing the most with the modest number of touches he got; probably helped that Pitt's zone removed the temptation for him to drive into traffic. His 10 point outburst to start the second half really saved us when it looked like Pitt might take control and mess with our confidence. Grayson's 16 (!) points in the final 7:22, starting with the huge standstill 3 pointer to make it 50-45 and the subsequent absurd acrobatic left hand scoop, helped establish the separation we needed to close it out.


Jayson played within the team offense. Kudos to him for that. He really does well catching and shooting in rhythm, as well as catching on the move. He gets in trouble when he starts his drive too far out or drives without keeping his head up. I have not looked at his stats, but I cant think of any glaringly inefficient plays like long 2-point attempts.

His length is also pretty disruptive on D. Would love to see him at the top of a zone or as the head of a press.

[devilnfla]

No problem agreeing to disagree...

Amile Jefferson stat line: 15 points, 9 rebounds, 5 blocks, 3 assists, 2 turnovers in 36 minutes.

Jefferson was solid today.

With the exception of rebounds, those are all offensive stats. I would ask you to post PITTs numbers inside the paint. That's where Amile didn't do so well. In my opinion, that'swhere Amile has been struggling. Tatum saved him a few times with help defense and rebounding.

Bottom line, he can play much better and this team will not go very far in March playing 6 players.

[FerryFor50]

With the exception of rebounds, those are all offensive stats. I would ask you to post PITTs numbers inside the paint. That's where Amile didn't do so well. In my opinion, that'swhere Amile has been struggling. Tatum saved him a few times with help defense and rebounding.

Bottom line, he can play much better and this team will not go very far in March playing 6 players.

5 blocks is an offensive stat?

[-bdbd]

Much better team D. Better communications all around. That bodes well for us as we hit the core of our ACC schedule. We didn't play bad at all, but shots just weren't going down frequently enough in the first 30 minutes...

Grayson was obviously clutch, scoring about half of his 20-plus points in the final 3 minutes. Anybody else think he seems to have played this one less tight? Maybe having K back gave him a boost, as in K can protect him a little better (from aggressive refs, provoking opponents, etc). But there WAS a play in the first half where he was whistled for a trip, accidentally. How long before ESPN highlights the play and vilifies him again?

Tatum had a very solid 2nd half at least. Amile was his usual, steady self, providing a lot of the necessary off-ball heavy lifting and comms. Was amazed at how off Luke's shooting was.

[devilnfla]

Would the win have counted for more if the minutes distribution had been different?

No, what's your point? I'm thinking bigger picture. Need to develop Giles and or Bolden. No way we win big in March and April playing with 6. Giles looked good today, he deserved a few minutes in the 2nd half.

[Kedsy]

With the exception of rebounds, those are all offensive stats.

Several people (including me) have mentioned Amile had 5 blocks today. Last I looked, that wasn't an offensive stat.

Bottom line is Amile anchored a pretty good team defensive performance today (1.07 ppp against what Pomeroy calls the 36th best offense in the country).

[Bob Green]

With the exception of rebounds, those are all offensive stats.

Jefferson had FIVE BLOCKS! You are grasping at straws dude. Let it go...

[MaxAMillion]

I am always surprised when people complain about bench minutes. Coach K has been doing it this way for most of the last 30 years. K likes to lock in roles and minutes and he wants his starters to learn how to play through fatigue The starters play most of the 2nd half every year when foul trouble or injury is not involved. I think you will see a 3 man rotation at the 4 and 5 positions with Jefferson, Tatum and Giles getting all the minutes. Bolden will probably see no more than 3 or 4 minutes per game (so get use to it). Jackson, Allen, Kennard, and Jones will man the 1-3 spots. I suspect the 7 man rotation will play most of the minutes and they will continue to improve as the season goes along.

I was really pleased with Jackson making those shots in the 2nd half. He is needed to take pressure off of Kennard and Allen. Kennard didn't have his usual production today from outside. I am excited to see how good they can be if they stay healthy the rest of the year. I am also going to appreciate every game Coach K sits on the bench. I hate to think about him not being the head coach anymore, but that day is coming.

[ipatent]

Didn't like the end game strategy of shooting one three after another with a four or five point lead and a few minutes left. Get Allen and Kennard fouled.

[devilnfla]

5 blocks is an offensive stat?

Good call, I clearly missed that. I see that CBS credited him with 5 blocks but none really stood out to me. What stood out to me was the poor switching on ball screens and offensive rebounds that Pitt was allowed to get.

[devilnfla]

Several people (including me) have mentioned Amile had 5 blocks today. Last I looked, that wasn't an offensive stat.

Bottom line is Amile anchored a pretty good team defensive performance today (1.07 ppp against what Pomeroy calls the 36th best offense in the country).

And this warrants zero bench minutes in 2nd half? Okay.

[devilnfla]

Jefferson had FIVE BLOCKS! You are grasping at straws dude. Let it go...

Duke will get pummeled in the tournament if we play 6 players and if our defense doesn't improve. That is not a grasp at straws. That's a reality!

[FerryFor50]

Good call, I clearly missed that. I see that CBS credited him with 5 blocks but none really stood out to me. What stood out to me was the poor switching on ball screens and offensive rebounds that Pitt was allowed to get.

Duke had 10 offensive boards. Pitt had 9.

Jefferson isn't at fault for that. And the switches lookedfine for the most part to me. You think a couple of freshmen bugs are going to be better at switching?

[BD80]

Had either one gotten 10 minutes today, we probably lose the game. They are going to have to have some great practice sessions to get 10 minutes a game. I can't question Coach K. He's shown that he knows what he's doing. GoDuke!

Rule 1: Win.

As for all other rules: see Rule 1.



Would Jackson have played in the second half if Jones had been healthy?

[superdave]

I am always surprised when people complain about bench minutes. Coach K has been doing it this way for most of the last 30 years. K likes to lock in roles and minutes and he wants his starters to learn how to play through fatigue The starters play most of the 2nd half every year when foul trouble or injury is not involved. I think you will see a 3 man rotation at the 4 and 5 positions with Jefferson, Tatum and Giles getting all the minutes. Bolden will probably see no more than 3 or 4 minutes per game (so get use to it). Jackson, Allen, Kennard, and Jones will man the 1-3 spots. I suspect the 7 man rotation will play most of the minutes and they will continue to improve as the season goes along.

I was really pleased with Jackson making those shots in the 2nd half. He is needed to take pressure off of Kennard and Allen. Kennard didn't have his usual production today from outside. I am excited to see how good they can be if they stay healthy the rest of the year. I am also going to appreciate every game Coach K sits on the bench. I hate to think about him not being the head coach anymore, but that day is coming.

Don't be surprised. Speculating and complaining about minutes is what we do!

I do think Bolden would have been very effective vs Rozelle Nix. He and Giles could have helped protect the rim too.

I hate to sound like sour grapes after a win but we will need those big guys. As soon as this Thursday too.

[Indoor66]

Much better team D. Better communications all around. That bodes well for us as we hit the core of our ACC schedule. We didn't play bad at all, but shots just weren't going down frequently enough in the first 30 minutes...

Grayson was obviously clutch, scoring about half of his 20-plus points in the final 3 minutes. Anybody else think he seems to have played this one less tight? Maybe having K back gave him a boost, as in K can protect him a little better (from aggressive refs, provoking opponents, etc). But there WAS a play in the first half where he was whistled for a trip, accidentally. How long before ESPN highlights the play and vilifies him again?

Tatum had a very solid 2nd half at least. Amile was his usual, steady self, providing a lot of the necessary off-ball heavy lifting and comms. Was amazed at how off Luke's shooting was.

I think that Grayson's toe is better. If you watch him, he seemed to be more fluid in his movement. Must be a Feldencrais thing.😁😈😎

[billy]

Good call, I clearly missed that. I see that CBS credited him with 5 blocks but none really stood out to me. What stood out to me was the poor switching on ball screens and offensive rebounds that Pitt was allowed to get.

In his post-game radio interview with Bob Harris, K said the main goal of the game was to limit Pitt's 3-point opportunities, which they did (IIRC, Pitt only hit 2). Yes, that makes it easier to score inside (regarding your comment). We'd shot just 41% at the half with only 3-13 from 3, and they weren't particularly bad shots. Once we reverted to the mean the game changed around. Gameplan seemed to work pretty well...

[CDu]

I think that Grayson's toe is better. If you watch him, he seemed to be more fluid in his movement. Must be a Feldencrais thing.������

Speaking of, whatever happened to greybeard?

[Bluedog]

I'll say that I wish all Duke games were on CBS. I actually enjoyed listening to the game even though what was happening on the court was stressful at times. It was also refreshing to not have a foul called every 30 seconds like we've seen the past few -- the officials did a good job and I didn't notice them like it should be.

Tough win -- Pitt is better than their record. We had a ton of shots go in and out, it was ridiculous. Our offense doesn't worry me although cutting down on some unforced turnovers would be good. It's the D that still needs some work. Good win, let's prepare for Thursday!!

[FadedTackyShirt]

That bench got short real quick.

At least it's a win.

Jones was pretty hobbled and probably shouldn't have played (14 mins) at all today. Giles and Bolden combined got 8 minutes.

At least Bolden's moved back ahead of Vrank in the rotation. Playing only a single minute isn't exactly a ringing endorsement, especially when Amile wasn't in foul trouble.

[uh_no]

Duke will get pummeled in the tournament if we play 6 players and if our defense doesn't improve. That is not a grasp at straws. That's a reality!

Yeah...duke has never had a team do well in the tournament with such short rotations!

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/boxscores/2010-04-05-butler.html

the defense comment is still valid. duke's adjusted D was ~105...which is somewhere around 175 in the country....the 64 points just looks nice because it was a slow game. To be fair, though, some of that was garbage time. if we take out the ~5 points and ~ 3 possessions they had at the end, it comes to adjusted about 100, which puts us somewhere in the seventies. not great, but not as horrible.

So anyway, defense still not great today....still needs to get better. switching bigs on PGs and frank on an opposing big is a no-go. have to do better in those situations.

[BluDvlsN1]

Duke will get pummeled in the tournament if we play 6 players and if our defense doesn't improve. That is not a grasp at straws. That's a reality!

We have a hall of fame coach, He has coached against every conceivable matchup problem,
in college and internationally. I suspect he'll have a rotation plan for every game based on
matchup problems and player performance.

I'll stick with K's plans.

[DBFAN]

I don't really have any answer for the Bolden thing, but Giles has been doing this same minutes thing for a few weeks now. I really think it is more of a conditioning strategy than anything else. Certain series of games they prob have him down to play X amount of minutes. In the next phase that will prob go up. I imagine that this is to make him as strong as possible for March. But as for Bolden I have no clue. I would think tho that if he was practicing well, he would be playing more, so if he isn't doing well in practice having him in games may do him more harm than good

[Troublemaker]

Highly recommend the postgame presser (http://www.goduke.com/mediaPortal/player.dbml?id=5936941) by Coach K. He is very happy to be back.

As for the short rotation, obviously we will go deeper and use the bigs more against UNC. I personally would've given Harry some run in the 2nd half, but I understand. The extremely slow pace of the game and lack of fouls allowed Coach to just go with Amile the entire time.

[Kedsy]

And this warrants zero bench minutes in 2nd half? Okay.

What does one have to do with the other? Your original point was that you thought Amile had a bad game. He didn't.


Duke will get pummeled in the tournament if we play 6 players and if our defense doesn't improve. That is not a grasp at straws. That's a reality!

No, it's a guess. We only lost by 2 to Kansas while playing 6 guys, two of whom were playing hurt and with Chase instead of Jayson. We beat a pretty good Florida team playing just 6 guys. We beat a decent Rhode Island team playing only 5 guys. I'm not saying it's ideal -- I'd like to see Harry and Marques play more as well -- but your opinion isn't any more "reality" than anybody else's.

[davekay1971]

Duke will get pummeled in the tournament if we play 6 players and if our defense doesn't improve. That is not a grasp at straws. That's a reality!

Agree with the defense part - our last two NC teams played stellar defense during the NCAAT. The 6 players part is total bunk.

2010 team:
NC game - only 5 players played more than 9 minutes
Semifinal - 6 players played more than 9 minutes (Miles, the 6th, played 13)
Elite 8 game - 8 players played more than 9 minutes (The Andre Dawkins Game...and Zoubs fouled out in 18 minutes of PT, giving more time to Miles and Mason)
Sweet 16 game - 6 players played more than 9 minutes (Miles, the 6th, played 15)
Round of 32 game - 6 players played more than 9 minutes, while Mason played exactly 10

2015 team:
NC game - 7 players played more than 9 minutes (probably the broadest minutes distribution in the tournament, with all 7 playing more than 20 minutes)
Semifinal - 6 players played more than 11 minutes (Jefferson played 11, Marshall Plumlee played 10...so in fairness 8 players played more than 9 minutes), in a blowout of Mich State
Elite Eight - 6 players played more than 9 minutes
Sweet 16 - 6 players played more than 9 minutes
Round of 32 game - 5 players played more than 9 minutes

Without breaking out game by game, the 2001 NC team went 7 deep, with Casey Sanders the 7th, getting around 15 mpg.

K's NC teams, teams which, by definition, were not pummeled in the NCAAT, have not relied on depth. I'd argue that the NCAAT, which features a format of 2 games in 3 days followed by a 5 day rest, does not reward depth, or punish lack of it (save in circumstances such as 1990, where the team was both emotionally and physically drained against UNLV, 2 days after surviving Nolan Richardson's 40 Minutes of Hell).

K's NC teams, however, HAVE relied on defense...whether they were strong defensive teams all season or, as with the 2015 team, figured it out as the season progressed.

[dukelifer]

Duke will get pummeled in the tournament if we play 6 players and if our defense doesn't improve. That is not a grasp at straws. That's a reality!

Pummeled? Which round? Duke has at least 8 or 9 players who can all play (and have played significant minutes) and Duke will use them as needed. If players are injured and Duke is down to 6- it will not be easy to win. I agree with that.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

No, what's your point? I'm thinking bigger picture. Need to develop Giles and or Bolden. No way we win big in March and April playing with 6. Giles looked good today, he deserved a few minutes in the 2nd half.
My point is simple. We won. K is back. He's done this coaching thing before.

And in the immortal words of ELO, "Don't bring me down..."

[NYBri]

Grind it out and find a way when cold from outside. Perhaps could have used a bit more creativity to break down the zone, but Tatum was key in the earlier parts of the second half, and then Allen just took over as his shots began to fall. Hats off to Pitt, a team with some really good, physical players and a good game plan, they made it tough! Now to get ready for one of the games of the year. Get well soon Matt!

Very little high post at the elbow. Weird. Jayson should be there whenever we see zone.

Great win and to have the GOAT back makes me feel all fuzzy. :cool:

[Skydog]

The good:

Coach K is back!
We played outstanding defense for large portions of the game, often not allowing Pitt to run their offense. Give a lot of credit to Young and to a lesser extent Artis for converting a lot of difficult, well defended shots.
19 assists and only 8 turnovers(!)
Grayson's demeanor continues to improve - looking more comfortable and confident the last couple of games. Nice to see him looking for his shot and sticking with it after missing his first few 3's. Absolute clutch performance when the game was on the line.
Tatum's decision making has improved a ton - didn't score a lot of points but was very efficient. Tatum's KP offensive efficiency rating was 148 (!), best on the team and his best for the season. Worked within the team and took what the defense gave him rather than forcing plays. Nice shooting from outside and only 1 turnover. :)
Jefferson seems to be getting his quickness back. Great game from him - scoring, rebounds, blocks, and even shot well from the ft line.
Giles looked comfortable taking and making a 20' jumper.
Despite our horrid start we ended up shooting 39% from 3.
For the 2nd game in a row we've really played like a team, not like a bunch of individuals randomly thrown out on the floor.

The bad:

Team too often settled for a very quick 3. Would have liked to see us work the ball more to see if we could break their defense down and looking to drive more.
Kennard struggled and Matt really struggled.
At home we should be putting teams like Pitt away easily. We were behind with 8 minutes to go and only up 4 with 90 seconds left in the game.
No rebounds for Giles in 7 minutes.

Big picture:

Will take the win. Happy to see Jayson playing team ball, Grayson scoring, and Jefferson healthy. We still have a ways to go to look like a top 10 team but at least now we are looking like a team.

[slower]

He kept calling Ian Eagle "Verne" all day long.

[NYBri]

At the end of the first half, did we go 4+ minutes without scoring?

[devildeac]

The good:

Coach K is back!
We played outstanding defense for large portions of the game, often not allowing Pitt to run their offense. Give a lot of credit to Young and to a lesser extent Artis for converting a lot of difficult, well defended shots.
19 assists and only 8 turnovers(!)
Grayson's demeanor continues to improve - looking more comfortable and confident the last couple of games. Nice to see him looking for his shot and sticking with it after missing his first few 3's. Absolute clutch performance when the game was on the line.
Tatum's decision making has improved a ton - didn't score a lot of points but was very efficient. Worked within the team and took what the defense gave him rather than forcing plays. Nice shooting from outside and only 1 turnover. :)
Jefferson seems to be getting his quickness back. Great game from him - scoring, rebounds, blocks, and even shot well from the ft line.
Giles looking comfortable taking and making a 20' jumper.
Despite our horrid start we ended up shooting 39% from 3.
For the 2nd game in a row we've really played like a team, not like a bunch of individuals randomly thrown out on the floor.

The bad:

Team too often settled for a very quick 3. Would have liked to see us work the ball more to see if we could break their defense down and looking to drive more.
Kennard struggled and Matt really struggled.
At home we should be putting teams like Pitt away easily. We were behind with 8 minutes to go and only up 4 with 90 seconds left in the game.
No rebounds for Giles in 7 minutes.

Big picture:

Will take the win. Happy to see Jayson playing team ball, Grayson scoring, and Jefferson healthy. We still have a ways to go to look like a top 10 team.

I'm not too concerned about the "bads." Most of our 3s were pretty good looks and 2-3 were in-n-outers. Matt played hurt today but glad we got a few minutes out of him. Plus, no vigil started yet :rolleyes:. Pitt is not a bad 1-9 team, either. Only lost to the cheaters by 2 this week.

[Skydog]

the defense comment is still valid. duke's adjusted D was ~105...which is somewhere around 175 in the country...the 64 points just looks nice because it was a slow game. ...

...

Also to be fair Young scored a lot of points even when he was well defended. He just made a lot of difficult shots with a body on him, some falling away, some with his body contorted, often finishing through contact. If not for his heroics I think our defensive stats would have looked fine today.

[OldPhiKap]

No, what's your point? I'm thinking bigger picture. Need to develop Giles and or Bolden. No way we win big in March and April playing with 6. Giles looked good today, he deserved a few minutes in the 2nd half.

K is back one game, and someone is already upset at his rotation choices?

Good gravy.

[AtlDuke72]

Duke will get pummeled in the tournament if we play 6 players and if our defense doesn't improve. That is not a grasp at straws. That's a reality!

Repeating your point 6 times does not make it any more accurate.

[Indoor66]

Repeating your point 6 times does not make it any more accurate. T

But he/she feels so much better....😂😎

[uh_no]

Also to be fair Young scored a lot of points even when he was well defended. He just made a lot of difficult shots with a body on him, some falling away, some with his body contorted, often finishing through contact. If not for his heroics I think our defensive stats would have looked fine today.

those aren't the buckets i'm worried about. it's the "frank switched to their big man and never once looked to amile who was desprately trying to switch back" and "harry switched on their point guard and proceeded to be made to look silly" buckets that are more of an issue. The good news, though, is that is fixable....and sometimes we DID get it right, and forced them into several near-or-actual shot clock violations. I'm sure those things will get looked at and worked on in practice.

Also want to give kudos for some of those other plays....a 5 second call, a stolen in bounds, another trap forcing a timeout....forcing pitt into several other really bad turnovers (and near a 10 second call at one point). That won't work against every team, but shows that we can give teams fits if they're not careful with their ball handling (given we had some of our own careless ballhandling issues....)

All in all, not woried about the offence, sometimes shots won't fall....not 100% satisfied on the defense, there's still plenty of polish to apply to get the results where we want, but it appears far more fixable than it might have 2 weeks ago.

[Olympic Fan]

A few observations ...

-- Was it just one week ago that everybody was writing "this is Luke's team" and everything should run through Luke? I think that last two games have provided a little perspective.

-- Coach K pointed out that Matt was injured in practice early in the week and unable to practice. He was a game-time decision to play ... which explains his rather timid performance.

--Can anybody who watched on TV confirm what it looked like on the replay board at Cameron? On the play in the backcourt where Allen was whistled for tripping, it looked very clearly like HE DIDN'T TOUCH THE PITT PLAYER, who stumbled trying to avoid Allen.

-- Great finish by Allen, who has now made the winning plays late in two games in a row. And even in Luke's win at Wake, Grayson hit a big shot late.

-- Defense was good in that it did what K wanted -- take the 3 -point shot away from Pitt. Young had a great game, but he's a great player. Artis is almost as good, but he struggled (17 points on 16 shots), largely against Grayson Allen's defense -- although to be fair, Duke did an awful lot of switching so nobody had anybody exclusively.

-- I have no idea why Harry didn't play in the second half. He had a very strong showing in his first 4-5 minute stint. He did little either way in a second 2-3 minute stint late in the first half.

-- Just a personal observation, is there a better 1-9 conference team in America than Pitt? I know they had a couple of tough outings, but they beat Virginia, lost to Notre Dame in OT,. lost at Louisville by five and pretty much hung with UNC in Chapel Hill and Duke in Durham

[NashvilleDevil]

Repeating your point 6 times does not make it any more accurate.

No but it sets up I told you so posts if/when Duke loses again.

[duke74]

K is back one game, and someone is already upset at his rotation choices?

Good gravy.

No kidding...

[tbyers11]

A few observations ...

-- Was it just one week ago that everybody was writing "this is Luke's team" and everything should run through Luke? I think that last two games have provided a little perspective.

-- Coach K pointed out that Matt was injured in practice early in the week and unable to practice. He was a game-time decision to play ... which explains his rather timid performance.

--Can anybody who watched on TV confirm what it looked like on the replay board at Cameron? On the play in the backcourt where Allen was whistled for tripping, it looked very clearly like HE DIDN'T TOUCH THE PITT PLAYER, who stumbled trying to avoid Allen.

-- Great finish by Allen, who has now made the winning plays late in two games in a row. And even in Luke's win at Wake, Grayson hit a big shot late.

-- Defense was good in that it did what K wanted -- take the 3 -point shot away from Pitt. Young had a great game, but he's a great player. Artis is almost as good, but he struggled (17 points on 16 shots), largely against Grayson Allen's defense -- although to be fair, Duke did an awful lot of switching so nobody had anybody exclusively.

-- I have no idea why Harry didn't play in the second half. He had a very strong showing in his first 4-5 minute stint. He did little either way in a second 2-3 minute stint late in the first half.

-- Just a personal observation, is there a better 1-9 conference team in America than Pitt? I know they had a couple of tough outings, but they beat Virginia, lost to Notre Dame in OT,. lost at Louisville by five and pretty much hung with UNC in Chapel Hill and Duke in Durham

Grayson did not trip Artis. Artis stepped on Grayson's foot/stumbled and that is what led to his fall. Grayson didn't make any contact on his swipe on the ball either. It was a close call. You could make the case that Grayson was late getting in front of Artis and impeded his progress by having his foot there, but he definitely did not trip him.

[Saratoga2]

Yeah, 19 assists against 8 turnovers today. But, please, let's keep that "lack of a point guard" narrative going...



.

I guess you didn't notice Grayson passing the ball directly to Pitt and Frank doing the very same thing. Both with the game still very close. I believe there were other incidents of the type an excellent PG usually avoids. but continue your sarcasm if it makes you feel good.

[Wander]

I'm torn. Thinking about longer term prospects, half of me thinks today was a very big step forward because our defense looked so good (and despite the bad record, Pitt is a solid offensive team). On the other hand, I'm not sure we can be a serious national title contender with BOTH Giles and Bolden contributing absolutely nothing. And yes, I realize those two statements might be related...

[duke4ever19]

I guess you didn't notice Grayson passing the ball directly to Pitt and Frank doing the very same thing. Both with the game still very close. I believe there were other incidents of the type an excellent PG usually avoids. but continue your sarcasm if it makes you feel good.

I thought Frank did a fine job today. Coach K said the same in his postgame presser, too. Frank and Grayson had two turnovers apiece, but I can live with that.

[tbyers11]

I guess you didn't notice Grayson passing the ball directly to Pitt and Frank doing the very same thing. Both with the game still very close. I believe there were other incidents of the type an excellent PG usually avoids. but continue your sarcasm if it makes you feel good.

Yes, there were some bad passes against the zone. But when your overall A:T is 19 to 8 and you have assists on 73% (19/26) of your FGs put me in the camp that isn't worried about lack of a true PG

[Rich]

I guess you didn't notice Grayson passing the ball directly to Pitt and Frank doing the very same thing. Both with the game still very close. I believe there were other incidents of the type an excellent PG usually avoids. but continue your sarcasm if it makes you feel good.

No point stressing about what you can't control. It's not like we have a point guard sitting on the bench not getting PT. Or do we plan to devolve into yet another discussion about Derryck Thornton?

[uh_no]

No point stressing about what you can't control. It's not like we have a point guard sitting on the bench not getting PT. Or do we plan to devolve into yet another discussion about Derryck Thornton?

I think this is the basketball corollary to the "no true Scotsman" fallacy.

[devilnfla]

I'm torn. Thinking about longer term prospects, half of me thinks today was a very big step forward because our defense looked so good (and despite the bad record, Pitt is a solid offensive team). On the other hand, I'm not sure we can be a serious national title contender with BOTH Giles and Bolden contributing absolutely nothing. And yes, I realize those two statements might be related...

This is where I'm at. I'm happy we've put a little streak together. However, I still see many vulnerabilities that will catch up to the team sooner or later. We have way to much talent on the bench that's not developing quickly enough, wether it be because of injuries, poor practice or just coach decision. If that's going to be status quo for the rest of the season then I don't see a path to the final four.

The other thing about our perceived improvement in defense is that the last couple of games, especially against ND didn't feature quick guards that tend to break Duke down rather easily. I suspect carolina will offer a more formidable test.

[dukelifer]

Grayson did not trip Artis. Artis stepped on Grayson's foot/stumbled and that is what led to his fall. Grayson didn't make any contact on his swipe on the ball either. It was a close call. You could make the case that Grayson was late getting in front of Artis and impeded his progress by having his foot there, but he definitely did not trip him.

Nonsense- Allen put his foot intentionally on the floor. Allen tripped over said foot. An intentional foot plant led to a trip. That is all you need to get another video on ESPN. The fact that Allen continues to fail to anticipate the movements of ALL players at all time is becoming a major problem.

[gam7]

Don't look now, but if we win on Thursday, Duke will be just one game out of first place in the ACC.

This is right, but the question is who will that(those) first place team(s) be. It will be UVA or Louisville, whoever wins their game on Monday. It won't be UNC if they lose to Notre Dame tomorrow. It won't be FSU if they lose the Clemson tomorrow. So, if we win Thurs, we could be tied with UNC and one game behind UVA/Louisville at a minimum, or one game behind UVA/Louisville, UNC and FSU at a maximum. We will know before tip off on Thurs.


Yeah, 19 assists against 8 turnovers today.

This is a better assist to TO ratio than any team in the NBA is averaging this season. Not apples to apples, but still. Not having a PG hurts our offensive efficiency, but assist to turnover ratio is not the stat that shows it. (Tonight we got a lot of good shots too; they just weren't makes. PG was not the problem tonight.)


He kept calling Ian Eagle "Verne" all day long.

He may have said Verne once or twice, but most of the time he was calling Ian Eagle "Bird" I think.

[weezie]

K is back one game, and someone is already upset at his rotation choices?

Good gravy.

Never doubt the vast width and depth of the DeeBer.

[Kfanarmy]

Had either one gotten 10 minutes today, we probably lose the game. They are going to have to have some great practice sessions to get 10 minutes a game. I can't question Coach K. He's shown that he knows what he's doing. GoDuke!

I am not so sure having a strong heavy body seal Nix may have been worth a dozen on the offense end.

[Kfanarmy]

Grayson did not trip Artis. Artis stepped on Grayson's foot/stumbled and that is what led to his fall. Grayson didn't make any contact on his swipe on the ball either. It was a close call. You could make the case that Grayson was late getting in front of Artis and impeded his progress by having his foot there, but he definitely did not trip him.

Allen didn't trip him, but yes, he was late getting there. Thought it was a good call in real time.

[gam7]

This is right, but the question is who will that(those) first place team(s) be. It will be UVA or Louisville, whoever wins their game on Monday. It won't be UNC if they lose to Notre Dame tomorrow. It won't be FSU if they lose the Clemson tomorrow. So, if we win Thurs, we could be tied with UNC and one game behind UVA/Louisville at a minimum, or one game behind UVA/Louisville, UNC and FSU at a maximum. We will know before tip off on Thurs.


Actually, this is wrong! If FSU beats Clemson tomorrow and State on Wed (both at home), we would be 1.5 games behind them even if we beat UNC. The question is who else will be ahead of us. It will be UVA or Louisville, whoever wins their game on Monday. It won't be UNC if they lose to Notre Dame tomorrow.

So, if we win Thurs, we could be tied with UNC and loser of UVA/Louisville, 0.5 game behind FSU, and one game behind UVA/Louisville winner, as best case scenario.

At worst, we would be tied with UVA/Louisville loser, 0.5 games behind Cuse (if they win @CLEM on Tues), one game behind UVA/Louisville winner and UNC and 1.5 games behind FSU.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

I would have liked more minutes for Giles/Bolden but in K I trust.

It was mentioned up thread but I was glad to watch a game with a bit more flow where we didn't really see the refs much. A number of games this year have been painful to watch due to over active refs. We are better positioned than in most years to deal with foul trouble but I prefer to let them play. These refs weren't perfect (the phantom foul on Grayson near mid court where he clearly avoided contact) but they weren't bad and in the way.

[arnie]

I'm torn. Thinking about longer term prospects, half of me thinks today was a very big step forward because our defense looked so good (and despite the bad record, Pitt is a solid offensive team). On the other hand, I'm not sure we can be a serious national title contender with BOTH Giles and Bolden contributing absolutely nothing. And yes, I realize those two statements might be related...

Allen and Kennard each played 40 minutes and Amile played 36. Although I want them in the game a majority of the time, we're going to need Giles play significant minutes, and he seemed ready today. Maybe he does get major minutes against the pissants, but maybe not as K loves going small. I've understood the shorter rotation in some years, but not so much the last few games.

[Troublemaker]

This is where I'm at. I'm happy we've put a little streak together. However, I still see many vulnerabilities that will catch up to the team sooner or later. We have way to much talent on the bench that's not developing quickly enough, wether it be because of injuries, poor practice or just coach decision. If that's going to be status quo for the rest of the season then I don't see a path to the final four.

It's not.



The other thing about our perceived improvement in defense is that the last couple of games, especially against ND didn't feature quick guards that tend to break Duke down rather easily. I suspect carolina will offer a more formidable test.

lol, because two of them are white.

Here's Farrell against Villanova:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5DrN_WxIL8

And here's Farrell, Gibbs, and Vasturia slicing apart Louisville's #1, super-athletic defense (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2ddhqjTMwk)

[Troublemaker]

And here's Farrell, Gibbs, and Vasturia slicing apart Louisville's #1, super-athletic defense (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2ddhqjTMwk)

This one deserves an embed. (Can't embed two vids in the same post).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2ddhqjTMwk

[WVDUKEFAN]

Watching Kentucky vs Florida. We're going to need a bigger boat.

[uh_no]

Watching Kentucky vs Florida. We're going to need a bigger boat.

If only we'd already beaten one of those two teams or something....

[NashvilleDevil]

Watching Kentucky vs Florida. We're going to need a bigger boat.

What's there concern? Duke already beat Florida and if that day comes they play UK, well I'm glad Coach is back.

[slower]

He may have said Verne once or twice, but most of the time he was calling Ian Eagle "Bird" I think.

Ah, gotcha. Didn't know that was his nickname. Makes sense now.

[BandAlum83]

Nonsense- Allen put his foot intentionally on the floor. Allen tripped over said foot. An intentional foot plant led to a trip. That is all you need to get another video on ESPN. The fact that Allen continues to fail to anticipate the movements of ALL players at all time is becoming a major problem.

True. Allen needs to be able to move about the court without planting his feet.

[Troublemaker]

If only we'd already beaten one of those two teams or something...

Kasey Hill and the other Florida guards are quick guards that tend to break Duke down easily...

[BandAlum83]

Actually, this is wrong! If FSU beats Clemson tomorrow and State on Wed (both at home), we would be 1.5 games behind them even if we beat UNC. The question is who else will be ahead of us. It will be UVA or Louisville, whoever wins their game on Monday. It won't be UNC if they lose to Notre Dame tomorrow.

So, if we win Thurs, we could be tied with UNC and loser of UVA/Louisville, 0.5 game behind FSU, and one game behind UVA/Louisville winner, as best case scenario.

At worst, we would be tied with UVA/Louisville loser, 0.5 games behind Cuse (if they win @CLEM on Tues), one game behind UVA/Louisville winner and UNC and 1.5 games behind FSU.

If we win out, I'm confident we will be the #1 seed in the ACCT

[Tripping William]

Coach K presser: "So Damn Lucky." Music to my ears.

[AFL]

The defense looked pretty good at times today. They got stops when they needed to and even got two shot clock violations out of Pitt. But they did leave the lane too open at times for slashers and offensive rebounds, which allowed Pitt to hang around.

The offense moved the ball better than a lot of games. This would have been a blowout if they'd hit their open jumpers. This team is so much better when guys are driving and kicking, and not trying to play hero ball.

I loved the press for several possessions. We have the depth to do it a lot more if we ...well...this is Coach K. The ceiling of this team goes up a few notches if Giles and Bolden get more minutes, we press for significant stretches and force teams to keep up. Maybe that was the plan in the pre-season, and we are where we are, but I still think we can develop Bolden and get a lot more out of Giles.

I would say this was a big step forward for the team, but it was not for Bolden and Giles, so our ceiling as a team remains lower than it could be. This was a big step forward for six guys on the team. We need Giles and Bolden to get minutes and build confidence. I know they need to earn it in practice, but we may be past that point. We either play them and grow as a team, or we do what we did today to beat Pitt then have a significantly lower ceiling in the NCAAs.

I probably should be more positive after a win, and it was a good win. But I think this team still has a chance to be special. A six man rotation does not give this team a chance to get there.
I totally agree. A 6-man rotation is a recipe for a second round NCAA Tournament exit.

[uh_no]

Coach K pressed: "So Damn Lucky." Music to my ears.

he also said he's been at practice for the past two weeks, putting to rest speculation that he couldn't leave the house and that's why he had the team meeting there.

[NSDukeFan]

I totally agree. A 6-man rotation is a recipe for a second round NCAA Tournament exit.

Would a 7-man rotation be a recipe for a third round exit? An 8-man rotation get the team to the fourth round? A nine man rotation get the team to the Final Four? 10 man rotation is a recipe for the championship and an 11-man rotation wins it all?

[WVDUKEFAN]

If only we'd already beaten one of those two teams or something...

You're a funny guy.

[OldPhiKap]

I totally agree. A 6-man rotation is a recipe for a second round NCAA Tournament exit.

Is that a gluten-free recipe by any chance?

Pitt played zone all game except when we went up by 9 with about 3 1/2 to go. How was Giles, Bolden or any other choice superior to the line-up we had in? Amile had a great game, Tatum had a pretty solid game, and three guards / outside shooters are what you need to score against the 2-3 (at least that is how K has done it for over 30 years). The alternative attack is to flash a big man to the free throw line who can generate an offensive play; Giles and Bolden are nowhere near as developed in that regard than Amile or Tatum.

Does anyone really think we're just gonna play six guys against the Heels? Who plays Depends on the matchups needed.

With respect, this argument is kinda silly based on one game against a slow-down zone team which Pitt was this game.

[CoachJ10]

I've mentioned before how good it is to see the ACC back to being competitive top to bottom. Yes, it might provike a little more heartburn during Jan and Feb...but I think it makes us stronger in the end. Pitt would be one of the better teams in the SEC, Big 12 and Big 10, and here they are cellar dwellars in the ACC.

It is nice to have a Grayson Allen to turn to when Luke is off. Few teams have that luxury. Solid win on a night when the Cameron rims were just brutal to us.

We lost to FSU and Lousiville w/o Amile...he would have been huge against both. We lost to Va Tech w/o Grayson...he would have been a nice piece to have. We lost to Kansas w/o Jayson, same goes for him. Yes, this team has some warts and areas to work on. But, we are coming together...

[Devilwin]

I totally agree. A 6-man rotation is a recipe for a second round NCAA Tournament exit.

Agree. This was a good win against a fine team, but was not our best effort. Grayson was awesome in the second half. Tatum and Amile were good as well. Giles played well while he was in there, but I don't understand why we don't play more than six or seven..

[El_Diablo]

Actually, this is wrong! If FSU beats Clemson tomorrow and State on Wed (both at home), we would be 1.5 games behind them even if we beat UNC. The question is who else will be ahead of us. It will be UVA or Louisville, whoever wins their game on Monday. It won't be UNC if they lose to Notre Dame tomorrow.

So, if we win Thurs, we could be tied with UNC and loser of UVA/Louisville, 0.5 game behind FSU, and one game behind UVA/Louisville winner, as best case scenario.

At worst, we would be tied with UVA/Louisville loser, 0.5 games behind Cuse (if they win @CLEM on Tues), one game behind UVA/Louisville winner and UNC and 1.5 games behind FSU.

We would not be tied with UNC if we beat them; they have 8 wins already, so we would be either 1.5 games behind them or 0.5 games back (depending on the outcome of the ND-UNC game).

[freshmanjs]

he also said he's been at practice for the past two weeks, putting to rest speculation that he couldn't leave the house and that's why he had the team meeting there.

Well...he also said that when he got tired or hit his time limit, he went home and had the staff come over there to meet.

[CDu]

If we win out, I'm confident we will be the #1 seed in the ACCT

Yup. We control our own destiny with everyone but Louisville and MAYBE FSU. And Louisville has a tough road left too. The worst we could finish if we win out is the #3 seed as the odd team out in a 3-way tie behind FSU and Louisville.

[Kedsy]

I guess you didn't notice Grayson passing the ball directly to Pitt and Frank doing the very same thing. Both with the game still very close. I believe there were other incidents of the type an excellent PG usually avoids. but continue your sarcasm if it makes you feel good.

Grayson had 6 assists and 2 turnovers. Frank had 5 assists and 2 turnovers. If you think that a "true" point guard would never turn the ball over (or even have a better ratio, on average, than Grayson and Frank today), then you probably ought to review the statistics of "true" point guards in Duke's (or any other team's) past.

We only turned the ball over 8 times today. In 2014-15, for the entire season, our team with a "true" and "excellent" point guard (actually two excellent point guards, one of whom (Quinn) had, I believe, the best a/to ratio in Duke history) only had fewer than 8 turnovers twice in 39 games. So I can say with confidence that a lack of a true point guard did NOT cause too many turnovers today.


--Can anybody who watched on TV confirm what it looked like on the replay board at Cameron? On the play in the backcourt where Allen was whistled for tripping, it looked very clearly like HE DIDN'T TOUCH THE PITT PLAYER, who stumbled trying to avoid Allen.

He touched him. To me, it looked like Grayson moved his foot to the right to try and get in front of the driver, but the guy got there quicker than Grayson and he tripped over Grayson's extended leg. in other words, it was a trip, just not an intentional one.

[duketaylor]

Thoughts, less than game-related to overall-related are>>>

Last week top 3 of 4 teams lost one evening and today 4 of top 8 (2 of top 3 lost at home to unranked foes) have lost with UK struggling against UF now and being outrebounded by more than 2-1 ratio. Lots of strange goings-on. Gonzaga doesn't really figure into the equation much, IMO, since they play in such a weak conference compared some of the power schools. Let them remain undefeated, so what? It means little except they'll get the #1 seed out West. Many power conferences are very top-heavy while the ACC is very deep and cannibalizing to some degree. Syracuse beats UVA today and is now a resurgent 7-4 in league, but has 9 losses. Perhaps now a tourney team I'd think.

No matter who wins in Greensboro tomorrow it's more carnage; then if we can survive Thursday at home even more carnage. ACC looking like a 9 or 10 bid league, 11 would be a stretch, but not outta reach as Wake and GT are showing life. BC and Pitt are toast, along with State and Clemson, at this point. Amazing year for our conference, IMO.

Duke's under the radar at this point and I love it. Both in conference and overall. But not in talent and potential, which I like most.

No definitive favorite at this point for NC.....beautiful!

Let's enjoy this ride!!!

[BD80]

If we win out, I'm confident we will be the #1 seed in the ACCT

Pretty sure that the top ACC team will get a #1 seed in the Big Dance.

But we might be getting a bit ahead of ourselves ...

[heyman25]

Bolden and Giles will have some PT Thursday. It is all about the match ups. UNC has a lot of size and Jefferson and Jones will have major match up problems if we do not use them. Vrankovic and DeLaurier may even get off the pine and play.Just my prediction. I hope we can shoot better Thursday.It will be a very difficult test for this team, but it seems we are getting better.NCSU was a major disappointing loss, but the team is much smarter since that game.

[MaxAMillion]

Agree. This was a good win against a fine team, but was not our best effort. Grayson was awesome in the second half. Tatum and Amile were good as well. Giles played well while he was in there, but I don't understand why we don't play more than six or seven..

Why do they have to play more than seven? They have won titles with a seven man rotation.

[OldPhiKap]

Why do they have to play more than seven? They have won titles with a seven man rotation.


7's the key number here. Think about it. 7-Elevens. 7 doors. 7, man, that's the number. 7 chipmunks twirlin' on a branch, eatin' lots of sunflowers on my uncle's ranch. You know that old children's tale from the sea. It's like you're dreamin' about Gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly Brie time, baby. Step into my office. 'Cause you're f'n fired!

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

7's the key number here. Think about it. 7-Elevens. 7 doors. 7, man, that's the number. 7 chipmunks twirlin' on a branch, eatin' lots of sunflowers on my uncle's ranch. You know that old children's tale from the sea. It's like you're dreamin' about Gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly Brie time, baby. Step into my office. 'Cause you're f'n fired!
OPK? You alright?

[Olympic Fan]

Watching Kentucky vs Florida. We're going to need a bigger boat.

I'm not trying to be a smart ***, but I honestly don't understand this statement.

A team that Duke beaten reasonably easily on a neutral court is manhandling No. 8 Kentucky at home.

Shouldn't that make you feel good about Duke's relative chances?

[brlftz]

I'd understand Giles not playing in a close game if it was a matter of just putting him out there for reps, but he was playing well! On offense he created a threat on the baseline with the lob, and hit a nice jumper that might have led to better floor spacing than what amile provides. I didn't want him in there for HIS sake, I wanted him in there because he was making us better. after what he provided in his brief first half stretch, i'm honestly not sure what anyone saw that makes them think we were better without him on the floor at all.

[dukelifer]

True. Allen needs to be able to move about the court without planting his feet.

Exactly- if Allen could learn to float above everyone else - this tripping issue would be a thing of the past. He insists on moving his feet to propell himself from place to place.

[subzero02]

7's the key number here. Think about it. 7-Elevens. 7 doors. 7, man, that's the number. 7 chipmunks twirlin' on a branch, eatin' lots of sunflowers on my uncle's ranch. You know that old children's tale from the sea. It's like you're dreamin' about Gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly Brie time, baby. Step into my office. 'Cause you're f'n fired!

There's something about 7... and Cameron.

[BD80]

7's the key number here. Think about it. 7-Elevens. 7 doors. 7, man, that's the number. 7 chipmunks twirlin' on a branch, eatin' lots of sunflowers on my uncle's ranch. You know that old children's tale from the sea. It's like you're dreamin' about Gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly Brie time, baby. Step into my office. 'Cause you're f'n fired!

So "no" to 6 minute abs?

[richardjackson199]

OPK? You alright?

An all-time classic from Something About Mary:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JB2di69FmhE

[gofurman]

This is where I'm at. I'm happy we've put a little streak together. However, I still see many vulnerabilities that will catch up to the team sooner or later. We have way to much talent on the bench that's not developing quickly enough, wether it be because of injuries, poor practice or just coach decision. If that's going to be status quo for the rest of the season then I don't see a path to the final four.

The other thing about our perceived improvement in defense is that the last couple of games, especially against ND didn't feature quick guards that tend to break Duke down rather easily. I suspect carolina will offer a more formidable test.

Not to take anything away from Pitt or Notre Dame etc. Pitt coulda beat UNC, us and did beat UVA! ND is top 25 legit. But I had this same thought. Pitt is crazy loaded with 6'6 to,6'9 great players but there's no real PG. probably a top five duo at the sf/pf position in Artis and Young but no Dennis Smith from NC State. Same with Notre Dame. A ton of odd sized talent (Bonzi Colson with his 6'5 self but 7'0 arms) but no ' break your ankles PG. we know it's the Dennis Smith / CJ McCollum / freak speedsters that kill us. Crazy quick PGs and Uber rim protectors like v UK or Oregon the past few years. Joel Berry will be a problem. Not that we can't win. But in a different league than what Pitt had

Match ups. That is what matters as much as or more than talent. Sure, we had WAY more than talent than Lehigh. But they had one NBA guy we couldn't match up,with. And now you had a game... Five on five the talent wasn't close. But w one freak PG Lehigh was our nightmare matchup

[gofurman]

Thoughts, less than game-related to overall-related are>>>

Last week top 3 of 4 teams lost one evening and today 4 of top 8 (2 of top 3 lost at home to unranked foes) have lost with UK struggling against UF now and being outrebounded by more than 2-1 ratio. Lots of strange goings-on. Gonzaga doesn't really figure into the equation much, IMO, since they play in such a weak conference compared some of the power schools. Let them remain undefeated, so what? It means little except they'll get the #1 seed out West. Many power conferences are very top-heavy while the ACC is very deep and cannibalizing to some degree. Syracuse beats UVA today and is now a resurgent 7-4 in league, but has 9 losses. Perhaps now a tourney team I'd think.

No matter who wins in Greensboro tomorrow it's more carnage; then if we can survive Thursday at home even more carnage. ACC looking like a 9 or 10 bid league, 11 would be a stretch, but not outta reach as Wake and GT are showing life. BC and Pitt are toast, along with State and Clemson, at this point. Amazing year for our conference, IMO.

Duke's under the radar at this point and I love it. Both in conference and overall. But not in talent and potential, which I like most.

No definitive favorite at this point for NC....beautiful!

Let's enjoy this ride!!!

Living in SC ... Keep up,w Clemson. Lunardi has them in as of now. He says ten ACC teams may get in. I say 8 or nine anyway. Clemson has a shot if they go 8-10 or 9-9 in league Anything is possible

[BandAlum83]

Pretty sure that the top ACC team will get a #1 seed in the Big Dance.

But we might be getting a bit ahead of ourselves ...

I've said that all along. The #1 team in the consensus best conference should have the inside track on a #1 seed. Especially if both regular season and ACCT champions.

[OldPhiKap]

I'm not trying to be a smart ***, but I honestly don't understand this statement.

A team that Duke beaten reasonably easily on a neutral court is manhandling No. 8 Kentucky at home.

Shouldn't that make you feel good about Duke's relative chances?

We all know that the transitive property of hoops does not work. Ergo, when you see such a transitive corrolation, by definition it incorrectly predicts the outcome. So if we beat UF and UF beat UK, were screwed.

This will all be featured in my upcoming book, "Degenerate Run Amok: How to Bomb Out of the DBR Wager Contest"

[devilnfla]

[/B]

Not to take anything away from Pitt or Notre Dame etc. Pitt coulda beat UNC, us and did beat UVA! ND is top 25 legit. But I had this same thought. Pitt is crazy loaded with 6'6 to,6'9 great players but there's no real PG. probably a top five duo at the sf/pf position in Artis and Young but no Dennis Smith from NC State. Same with Notre Dame. A ton of odd sized talent (Bonzi Colson with his 6'5 self but 7'0 arms) but no ' break your ankles PG. we know it's the Dennis Smith / CJ McCollum / freak speedsters that kill us. Crazy quick PGs and Uber rim protectors like v UK or Oregon the past few years. Joel Berry will be a problem. Not that we can't win. But in a different league than what Pitt had

Match ups. That is what matters as much as or more than talent. Sure, we had WAY more than talent than Lehigh. But they had one NBA guy we couldn't match up,with. And now you had a game... Five on five the talent wasn't close. But w one freak PG Lehigh was our nightmare matchup

Agreed....some would have you believe Ferrell from ND is as quick as Dennis Smith. Not even close.

[Saratoga2]

I'd understand Giles not playing in a close game if it was a matter of just putting him out there for reps, but he was playing well! On offense he created a threat on the baseline with the lob, and hit a nice jumper that might have led to better floor spacing than what amile provides. I didn't want him in there for HIS sake, I wanted him in there because he was making us better. after what he provided in his brief first half stretch, i'm honestly not sure what anyone saw that makes them think we were better without him on the floor at all.


Maybe a more interesting question is why Matt played as much as he did. He is a experienced defender but an average defender and is about 6'5' and had a sore ankle. Really, not much of a match against Artis (sp) so might we have let him rest his ankle for the game and played Giles a little more? Coach K must be seeing something defensively that gives him pause.

[Devilwin]

Why do they have to play more than seven? They have won titles with a seven man rotation.

It would be nice to throw seasoned players in the game in case of foul trouble.

[Emerrick]

I do think Bolden would have been very effective vs Rozelle Nix. He and Giles could have helped protect the rim too.

I hate to sound like sour grapes after a win but we will need those big guys. As soon as this Thursday too.

Harry didn't do all that good of a job protecting the rim when he was in. Folks were just going right around him. His quickness and mobility still needs development. He looks lost on rebounding as well.

[superdave]

Harry didn't do all that good of a job protecting the rim when he was in. Folks were just going right around him. His quickness and mobility still needs development. He looks lost on rebounding as well.

All the more reason to get him 20 minutes per game now, right? ; D

A short bench works with a really experienced team. Singler, Scheyer and Smith played heavy, heavy minutes in 2010. Anyone on this board not have confidence they should have played 38-40 minutes every big game? Anyone have the same level of confidence about Jefferson, Kennard, Allen or Jones? This year's guys are capable of the heavy load, but at what drop in performance?

I'd much rather have a fresher starting 5 going into the final minutes; and have guys 6-7-8 in the flow of the game in case we need them. Of course this is a chicken and egg thing right? Bolden cant earn minutes until he practices well, but he may not practice well because of frustration/lack of confidence from sitting the bench.

[uh_no]

Harry didn't do all that good of a job protecting the rim when he was in. Folks were just going right around him. His quickness and mobility still needs development. He looks lost on rebounding as well.

I'm glad someone else other than me has said it :) If you read most of the comments, you'd think Harry could do no wrong and it was insane that he didn't get second half minutes. While he was pretty good on O, he was equally as not good on D. Further, even though he did provide value on O, it's not like we weren't getting good looks while he wasn't in the game, they just weren't falling. They fell just fine in the second half without harry on the floor when we put up a blistering 44 for the half.

If the offense is getting looks without him, and the defense is a step behind whomever his replacement is, Harry's going to not get in....and that was the case yesterday.

That said, what people HAVE said is against a team like UNC, it's quite likely that he being in the game will help our defense or help generate looks against a big team, and thus he'll get more run. But if Harry wants more run in general, he needs to be effective against a greater variety of teams (on BOTH ends of the floor), which he's not right now.

[wavedukefan70s]

7's the key number here. Think about it. 7-Elevens. 7 doors. 7, man, that's the number. 7 chipmunks twirlin' on a branch, eatin' lots of sunflowers on my uncle's ranch. You know that old children's tale from the sea. It's like you're dreamin' about Gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly Brie time, baby. Step into my office. 'Cause you're f'n fired!

Franks and beans...

[NYBri]

We seem to have difficulty closing out halves ,(or halfs).

Folks get tired, we lose focus, or...?

Thoughts?

[wavedukefan70s]

Im thinking focus.

[BD80]

Im thinking focus.

On what?

[Matches]

With Amile playing well, in a slow-paced game, and no foul trouble, Giles wasn't needed in the 2nd half. Playing him together with Amile would have caused spacing issues against the zone and would have hurt us significantly on defense. It was the right call for this game.

As to the idea that Giles will be needed in other games, of course that's true. But keep in mind he got a good bit of run in the first half - he just didn't play after halftime. Giles playing 7 minutes in this particular game versus 10-12 will have exactly zero impact on his ability to contribute in future games.

[Troublemaker]

Agreed...some would have you believe Ferrell from ND is as quick as Dennis Smith. Not even close.

Uh, no. Exactly zero people who read my posts believe that I think that. Such a silly strawman.

But I do believe Farrell is a quick guard, as would anyone who watched those videos.

Now, if your working theory is that Duke's defense can defend well except when going against guards who have Dennis Smith quickness, then I don't understand your concern.

I can probably count on one hand the guards in the country as quick as Dennis Smith.

[MaxAMillion]

We seem to have difficulty closing out halves ,(or halfs).

Folks get tired, we lose focus, or...?

Thoughts?

I think it is random because they did not have problems at ND.

[uh_no]

Uh, no. Exactly zero people who read my posts believe that I think that. Such a silly strawman.

But I do believe Farrell is a quick guard, as would anyone who watched those videos.


Well if we're pointing out logical fallacies, perhaps I can call out the argumentum ad populum?

[Troublemaker]

Well if we're pointing out logical fallacies, perhaps I can call out the argumentum ad populum?

Sure, but it makes no difference. Unless you can hold the NBA combine right now, the designation of whether a player is "quick" or not is entirely subjective and up to the eye test. Thus, if a lot of people think a player is quick, that player is quick. Unless somebody can post Dennis Smith's shuttle run times and how it compares to a large sample of other guards.

[uh_no]

the designation of whether a player is "quick" or not is entirely subjective and up to the eye test.

And yet you are suggesting that no one could possibly think that he's not quick. Isn't that a bit of a bold claim for a subjective measure?

[Troublemaker]

And yet you are suggesting that no one could possibly think that he's not quick. Isn't that a bit of a bold claim for a subjective measure?

Nope. I might amend that to "very few" would think that Farrell is not quick, as there are always outliers/jerks ;-).

It's not any bolder than saying that everyone (or most everyone) believes that Dennis Smith is very quick.

[azzefkram]

Nice win by the good guys. It was fun (and stress reducing) to see Grayson go off in the final 10 or so minutes. I also though Grayson looked a lot better on D than he has in a while. Frank did a solid job on both sides of the ball. Luke had a pretty bad shooting night. Let's hope he storing up a little mean reversion for Thursday. I was a bit surprised that Matt played given how hobbled he looked out there. This is the second straight game were I thought Jayson played really good team ball. Amile had a good game. I would have liked to see more of Harry and Marques in the second half but given the level of switching we did on the perimeter I can understand the lack of burn. It was great to see Coach K on the bench again. I thought Jeff did a good job filling in but having the GOAT on the bench is a different story.

[BandAlum83]

On what?

I see what you did there.

[Wander]

Would a 7-man rotation be a recipe for a third round exit? An 8-man rotation get the team to the fourth round? A nine man rotation get the team to the Final Four? 10 man rotation is a recipe for the championship and an 11-man rotation wins it all?

To me, I don't really think it's about "rotation" in terms of a coaching decision. I have no problem with the coaching decision yesterday to not play Giles much and Bolden at all. I seriously don't care if we play our starters 40 minutes each in a particular game. That's fine.

The worry for me is just that us being a serious national championship contender was predicated on our freshman class being really, really good. So far, we have one freshman who's been a decent role player, and one freshman who's been on par with our great freshmen of the recent past, with ups and downs but a generally upward trend. But Giles and Bolden look completely unable to contribute at a high level this year.

As a thought experiment, imagine taking the 2015 Duke team and keeping everything the same, except pick 2 out of the 3 of Jones/Winslow/Okafor and say they didn't have good seasons. How far would that team have gone? Obviously, you can't say for sure because the tournament has some variability, but they certainly would not have been one of the top 5 national title contenders.

I guess the bottom line summary for me is that if Giles or Bolden don't improve and become a regular part of the rotation, we're extremely unlikely to win the national championship (and the "or" is important... I'd be very happy with just one). But what people need to stop having pissing contests about is this idea that it's a coaching flaw... it's not about coaching decisions, it's about a combination of their injuries and/or them not being as ready to contribute as advertised (I think it's 90+% about injuries, but people can reasonably disagree).

[NM Duke Fan]

I guess the bottom line summary for me is that if Giles or Bolden don't improve and become a regular part of the rotation, we're extremely unlikely to win the national championship (and the "or" is important... I'd be very happy with just one). But what people need to stop having pissing contests about is this idea that it's a coaching flaw... it's not about coaching decisions, it's about a combination of their injuries and/or them not being as ready to contribute as advertised (I think it's 90+% about injuries, but people can reasonably disagree).

What is encouraging to me is that Giles overall is on an upward trajectory. It is like the financial markets, some days there are pullbacks due to profit taking, etc. But if a trend is in place, then there is momentum in one direction or the other. Giles has recently made some key contributions in games, including in the critical last few minutes. He may have not done so against Pitt, but I suspect the upward trend will continue, very possibly with this next game. And I also suspect he is already a key part of the regular rotation for most match up situations moving forward. Bolden had a few good games, and then not much recently for whatever reasons, but does still have that under his belt, and maybe he will gain some momentum back with Coach K back in place. In any case, 3 of the freshman are contributors, and very well could be contributing more by the time the ACC tournament begins. I really like the way Tatum has played the last 2 games as a more integral part of the team and within the flow of the game!

[Emerrick]

All the more reason to get him 20 minutes per game now, right? ; .

If it were December, I'd agree with you. The window is closing on his development this season. Don't get me wrong, I love Harry! It's just the clock is speeding up and we need those that can step up and deliver, to do just that. It looks to me Harry needs about another 6 months of solid play to reach his potential, not 6 weeks. I love it when he's out there and hope for great plays, but they occur too infrequently at the moment. His outside jumper was beautiful, but his lack of boxing out was not. When Matt plays and the ball is shot, he finds a man and puts the opponent on his back. When Harry plays, he watches the ball and then jumps. He could do this HS. He can't get away with that here.

I hope I'm wrong and Harry explodes in the next few games. We definitely need him, I'm just doubtful we'll get the Harry we need. It'll be interesting to see what Coach K does...

[Rich]

It'll be interesting to see what Coach K does...

Coach K has been pretty consistent over the years. He will play the players who are playing best, not necessarily the best players. Even if there are only 5 or 6 of them.

[OldPhiKap]

My inderstanding is, K has decided to throw UNC out of the visitor's locker room.

[dukelifer]

My inderstanding is, K has decided to throw UNC out of the visitor's locker room.

Bad idea. Last time he threw a team out- they won.

[DukieInBrasil]

Even though Pitt shot really well from the floor i was still pretty pleased with our defense. They really got nothing from 3 and they didn't get a crazy amount of FTs (16) and our FT defense was solid too (62.5%).
I say i'm still pleased with our defense (partly b/c we won), but they were making really tough shots at the end of the shot clock. They were making off-balance shots, fade-aways with hands in their face, but they weren't getting a whole lot of uncontested jumpers. We gave up a few dunks and easy lay-ups, but no more than normal. Sometimes you just gotta tip your cap to a couple of guys who really played their hearts out, Artis and Young. They got theirs, and nobody else really stepped up (or you could say that Duke shut everyone else down, ftmp).
It still seems like we give up too many Oboards, but we got more than they did (10 vs 9). We couldn't really utilize our height advantage against them so it makes sense that the rebounding would be closer, and in fact they outrebounded us by 3.
Prior to the game i thought we would win bigger (more bigly?), but i'm still pleased by the win. There were definitely frustrating parts of the game, ie silly turnovers, missed rotations on D and perplexingly anemic offense for a while, but i guess the part that is satisfying is that when it came down to winning time, this team knew how to win. That was absent vs State. We've grown as a team since then and i like that.

[Skydog]

...and our FT defense was solid too (62.5%).
...
I'm with you on the rest of your post but you lost me at "our free throw defense." I missed that nuance - were we playing zone or man to man?

[DukieInBrasil]

I'm with you on the rest of your post but you lost me at "our free throw defense." I missed that nuance - were we playing zone or man to man?

It's a variation of the Pack Line defense at UVA, my sources tell me it's called the Pack Lane defense. Trying to intimidate the FT shooter into missing, y'know, mind games.

[Ultrarunner]

I'm with you on the rest of your post but you lost me at "our free throw defense." I missed that nuance - were we playing zone or man to man?

A box and one packing the key, mostly.

[OldPhiKap]

A box and one packing the key, mostly.

This made me laugh.

[flyingdutchdevil]

1) Grayson Allen has his shot back, and it's beautiful. I thought Grayson shot too fast for the first half of the year. Well, if he can make those shots like he showed against Pitt, then let it fly, Grayson! Let it fly!

2) We can win without Luke going off. This is a great thing. Luke is now the center of the opponent's defensive plan, and he'll get shut down from time to time. But I like it when we have other players - like Tatum and Grayson - who can take over.

3) Giles, Bolden, Jeter, and Vrank barely played (if at all). And I'm not surprised. Coach K is back. He's gonna play a tight rotation. And, unsurprisingly, he views Giles and Bolden as not ready enough. Hope they play against Kerlina, but I won't be shocked to see them play less than 5 minutes combined.

4) Matt Jones was injured. So he didn't have a very Matt Jones-y game. 'Nuf said

5) Either Pitt is either much better than advertised or Duke's D is much worse than advertised. Cus I found myself scratching my head with two mins left in the game.

[Law Prof]

Bad idea. Last time he threw a team out- they won.

Well, maybe he should just get the team to run them out of the gym! :cool:

[uh_no]

5) Either Pitt is either much better than advertised or Duke's D is much worse than advertised. Cus I found myself scratching my head with two mins left in the game.

There's been a lot of poo-pooing this with "they made some tough shots," and they did....but teams will make some tough shots. They also missed some tough shots. they also took a lot of open shots, and they also made a lot of open shots.

There is a lot of water under the table after a loss, and the fact that the defense wasn't 100% there has been part of that.

Yeah we had some really really good defensive plays, but a few reall good plays does not a great defense make. We need to eliminate the breakdowns which still occurred far too much. If teams are going to make tough shots, we can't be giving them chippies as well.

[Troublemaker]

There's been a lot of poo-pooing this with "they made some tough shots," and they did...but teams will make some tough shots. They also missed some tough shots. they also took a lot of open shots, and they also made a lot of open shots.

There is a lot of water under the table after a loss, and the fact that the defense wasn't 100% there has been part of that.

Yeah we had some really really good defensive plays, but a few reall good plays does not a great defense make. We need to eliminate the breakdowns which still occurred far too much. If teams are going to make tough shots, we can't be giving them chippies as well.

You do realize Duke's defensive ranking in kenpom ticked up a bit after the game, right?

Without doing a deep dive into the game, my sense of the defense when watching it was that it was "pretty good but needs to get even better." Kenpom scored it as a 104.7 efficiency game for Pitt, the 8th best defensive performance against them this season. That matches up with my initial "pretty good but needs to get better" feeling about it.

That said, Pitt's a unique team -- a team of 5 forwards -- so whatever one thinks of Duke's performance, it's probably not going to be predictive of games going forward.

[uh_no]

You do realize Duke's defensive ranking in kenpom ticked up a bit after the game, right?

Without doing a deep dive into the game, my sense of the defense when watching it was that it was "pretty good but needs to get even better." Kenpom scored it as a 104.7 efficiency game for Pitt, the 8th best defensive performance against them this season. That matches up with my initial "pretty good but needs to get better" feeling about it.

That said, Pitt's a unique team -- a team of 5 forwards -- so whatever one thinks of Duke's performance, it's probably not going to be predictive of games going forward.

That's interesting. KP has the tempo at 62, but SCACC has it at 58....that's enough to make a significant difference. That puts our adj. D at somewhere around 95 for the game, which is much better....about 20th. (but we can do better!)

Well, you've convinced me :) I need to remind myself to take SCACC numbers with a grain of salt.

Anyway, I still think that despite their making some tough shots, there are still some big issues on defense that Pitt didn't really capitalize on, especially in the first half. It should have been an easy two every time frank was on their center, and if we continue to make that kind of switch and fail to switch back quickly enough (like we didn't at times), then teams are going to punish us more than pitt was able to.

It will be interesting to see if UNC sets that screen as often as pitt tried to, how we respond (since this is now sort of the third iteration of dealing with HBS....we went from confusion -> strong hedge -> always switch in a few months), and whether UNC can make us pay for sloppiness there.

[niveklaen]

I think that this is actually our 4th approach to HBS defense this year - confusion, strong hedge, ice, switch - I wonder if K is gearing the approach to the opponent or if he is trying them all to see what we are best at. If nothing else it makes scouting our defense more difficult.

IMHO, the switch approach was geared for Pitt specifically because they usually had 5 forwards out there. We only really noticed it as a problem when their 300lb 7footer repeatedly got Jackson isolated on the post - but they never exploited that mismatch by dumping it into him. Since this is the only game that we have employed this approach I think it is safe to assume that K will not use it against UNC who would like nothing better than to dump the ball down into the post.

[pfrduke]

That's interesting. KP has the tempo at 62, but SCACC has it at 58...that's enough to make a significant difference.

Just counting from the play-by-play, Pitt had 61 possessions (30 in the first half, 31 in the second).

[Saratoga2]

Just counting from the play-by-play, Pitt had 61 possessions (30 in the first half, 31 in the second).

I thought we chose not to contest their last three possessions rather than foul. The game was won and we were just playing it out. If they got 6 points from those, it represented about 10% of their scoring.

[rasputin]

My inderstanding is, K has decided to throw UNC out of the visitor's locker room.

By contrast, if it were Ol' Roy making such a decision, he'd deprive the miscreant of the choice of what brand of spray paint to use in the locker room.