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NYC Duke Fan
10-13-2007, 05:10 PM
When UNC was looking for a new head football coach, they hired a coach who had won the NCAA Championship AND had coached in the NFL, albeit not so successfully.

When Duke was looking to fire a new football coach, they hired assistants with no head coaching experience
That is the difference between a school that wants to win and one that hardly cares.

In one or two years UNC will be bowl bound and in a few years thereafter I would not be surprised if they are in the BCS mix.

Duke on the other hand will be excited if it can win 3 games.

It has been written here that nobody of any stature would want the Duke job. That is utter nonsense !!!! " Show him the money and he will come ".
If you pay enough you will get the right person, whether it is the Navy coach or a coach with NFL experience. If you have to pay him the same that you are paying Coach K that would all right too, because football is a higher generating money sport than basketball.

If Duke does not want to go that route than it is obvious that it just does not care about football

RelativeWays
10-13-2007, 05:19 PM
My understanding that Coach K is not the highest paid college BB coach, most of the money he makes is from his endorsement deals with Nike, American Express and others. I'm not sure the DUke football coach will benefit from the same spiffs.

If they do kick Roof out, they need to find a coach that has had some success or an assistant that comes from a big program. Hiring another nobody will just leave us in the same 4 year cycle. I think I'd keep Roof two more years but tell his offensive and defensive coordinators to beat it.

sandinmyshoes
10-13-2007, 05:45 PM
I don't think Butch Davis won a national championship.

Cameron
10-13-2007, 06:03 PM
You are correct, sand, Butch Davis didn't win a national championship. In his final season at the helm of Thug U in 2000, Davis went 11-1, I believe, knocking off Florida for an Orange Bowl victory, but not a national championship. The Oklahoma Sooners won it that season.

Miami won the 2001 national title over Nebraska, under first year head coach, and the now fired, Larry Coker.

NYC Duke Fan
10-13-2007, 06:32 PM
My understanding that Coach K is not the highest paid college BB coach, most of the money he makes is from his endorsement deals with Nike, American Express and others. I'm not sure the DUke football coach will benefit from the same spiffs.

If they do kick Roof out, they need to find a coach that has had some success or an assistant that comes from a big program. Hiring another nobody will just leave us in the same 4 year cycle. I think I'd keep Roof two more years but tell his offensive and defensive coordinators to bea

Carl franks came from Florida. There is nothing bigger than that

jimsumner
10-13-2007, 06:40 PM
Correct that Franks came from Florida. But a more rational hire would have been a successful offensive coordinator or defensive coordinator from a power school. Franks had never been a coordinator.

sandinmyshoes
10-13-2007, 06:56 PM
Butch Davis almost made a bad day worse. After the VPI game and the Monroe decision I am not sure I could have taken UNC beating a top 10 team today. :eek:

JBDuke
10-14-2007, 02:28 AM
Correct that Franks came from Florida. But a more rational hire would have been a successful offensive coordinator or defensive coordinator from a power school. Franks had never been a coordinator.

Wasn't Roof the defensive coordinator under O'Leary at Georgia Tech, and if not for the whole O'Leary resume mess, wouldn't he have been the defensive coordinator for Notre Dame?

JasonEvans
10-14-2007, 07:25 AM
Wasn't Roof the defensive coordinator under O'Leary at Georgia Tech, and if not for the whole O'Leary resume mess, wouldn't he have been the defensive coordinator for Notre Dame?

You are correct... and IF the day comes that Duke is looking for a new coach I think George O'Leary would be an interesting choice. He's done a pretty decent job at Central Florida and his teams are really academically sound (I think I read recently that they had the highest GPA in school history or something like that.

--Jason "not advocating the end of the Roof era... but just saying that if we need to look around, I think O'Leary would be a good choice and he might take the job" Evans

jimsumner
10-14-2007, 11:58 AM
Right or wrong, Duke has always been disinclined to go after coaches with ethical lapses on their records. That's why guys like O'Leary, Neuheisel, and Price have never been considered for vacancies.

Olympic Fan
10-14-2007, 04:38 PM
It has been written here that nobody of any stature would want the Duke job. That is utter nonsense !!!! " Show him the money and he will come ".
If you pay enough you will get the right person, whether it is the Navy coach or a coach with NFL experience. If you have to pay him the same that you are paying Coach K that would all right too, because football is a higher generating money sport than basketball.

It's very easy to say that it's "utter nonsense" to suggest that no one of stature would want the Duke job or that "Show him the money and he will come." Hey, it's not your money!

In point of fact, it will be VERY difficult for Duke to hire an established coach, even if Duke offers an excessive salary. There is considerable skepticsm in the coaching fraternity about the possibility of success at Duke and whether the school is willing to make the commitment -- you could substitute the word "compromises" -- necessary to be successful.

You mention the Navy coach. Well, Paul Johnson has long been a favorite of mine and back in 1998, when Goldsmith was fired, Duke might have had a chance to lure him from Georgia Southern. Now, Duke doesn't have a chance in #&@% of luring Johnson. You say money? He's already making $1.5 million a year. If he leaves Navy, it will be to go to a school where he can compete for the national championship and not to make a few more bucks. UNC could have hired Johnson last fall ... maybe even NC State. Not Duke.

North Carolina was able to get Butch Davis not because the Tar Heels outbid everybody else (although they did pay a top-flight salary), but because Davis (like a lot of other coaches) perceived UNC as a sleeping giant -- a school with great facilities, the strong fan support that comes from being the state's flagship university and the NCAA-minimum academic requirements.

That's pretty much the same reason Tom O'Brien left BC for NCState -- he knew he was taking a temporary step back, but he also knew that NC State has a lot more long-term potential than a small Jesuit private school in a pro city.

Back when Duke dumped Barry Wilson, Virginia's offensive coordinator was offered the job. Money was not an object ... but Tom O'Brien decided that he didn't have a chance to win at Duke. He turned down the offer and waited for a better opportunity.

And, keep in mind, Duke was in a lot better shape in 1993 than today. The school was just four years removed from a bowl game and an ACC championship. Barry Wilson wasn't that good, but he was 13-30 in his four years. He won 4 games twice, three games once and two games once.

Things are MUCH worse today. A decade ago, we didn't have people (including our own fans) wondering if Duke could EVER compete in the ACC. We didn't have a growing minority campaigning for Duke to drop Division 1-A football.

When Alleva went looking for a new coach in 2003 (when Roof was just the interim), he found an almost total lack of interest in the job. Neither the top 1-AA coaches nor the nationally known 1-A assistants would give him the time of day. The idea that he could have gotten a proven big time winner (other than an decrepit retread like Bobby Ross) is ludicrous -- even for a huge salary. Norm Chow, who once told me that he would crawl across a field of broken glass on his belly to get a head job, took one look at what Duke had to offer and turned ran away screaming.

If Roof fails and Duke has to go looking, it would take a miracle to land a proven, established coach (with or without NFL experience). I know one pretty successful 1-AA coach who is dying for a 1-A job, but wouldn't touch Duke for all the money in the football universe. I've heard Steve Logan's name mentioned, but I know Logan has told friends that he wouldn't consider Duke unless there were some major changes in the program -- changes he'd be surprised to see the school make.

To get a big name, you're going to have to take someone with baggage -- maybe a Terry Bowden, who is dying to get back in coaching and might be (like Ross four years ago) desperate enough to take the Duke job. Maybe an O'Leary would do it -- as for his ethical problems, Vic Bubas was N.C. State's chief recruiter during a period when the Pack was twice nailed for major recruiting violations (although Bubas was never directly linked to any violation). I don't think O'Leary's sins are that awful.

Reading what I just wrote makes it sound like I think it's hopeless -- I don't. I think we can find a winner for our program. I just think it will end up being somebody more like Mike Krzyzewski was -- a young unknown, than a proven, established big name like Butch Davis.

But if you want to go on dreaming of landing Bill Cowher -- go ahead. It doesn't cost anything to dream.

jimsumner
10-14-2007, 04:51 PM
"Vic Bubas was N.C. State's chief recruiter during a period when the Pack was twice nailed for major recruiting violations (although Bubas was never directly linked to any violation)"

True. And Duke was excoriated for hiring someone from cheating State. The criticism didn't last much longer than the 1960 ACC Tournament but it was there at the beginning.

I'm not saying that Duke isn't wrong on this. America tends to be pretty good on giving people second chances. But the reluctance is there and I'm pretty sure it goes higher than the AD's office. Given the attitude of a good bit of the faculty towards big-time football, I suspect this is a fight no one in the administration wants to pick.

I agree with OF. I think if Duke finds somebody to lead them out of the football-wilderness, it will be Duke's Jim Grobe not Duke's Butch Davis.

jimsumner
10-14-2007, 05:01 PM
Let me clarify my last comments. I'm neither advocating nor predicting that Duke will need a new football coach any time soon. I'm simply going along with the general discussion of what Duke will or will not look for should that necessity arise.