Greg Monroe picks Georgetown

[Troublemaker]

Georgetown and Tennessee don't project to be better than Duke this season?

Nope. Not in my mind. Again, my short blurb answer would be that G'town will miss Jeff Green a lot, and I thought they overachieved last season and will "return to mean" a bit this season. Do they have talented players waiting in line to step in for Green? Sure, but I doubt they can re-create his impact this season. They'll still be a good team, though. As for Tennessee, it's an easier comparison because they strike me as having similar strengths and weaknesses. I just think Duke will be stronger in our shared strengths and probably stronger in our shared weaknesses as well. Again, just a short blurb answer.

Reasonable minds can disagree, however. There is no right or wrong here, obviously.

[greybeard]

I can understand the pre-season questions about Georgetown being rated a top 4 club, what with Green's loss. An awful lot will depend on whether Summer or PWII can step into Green's high-pivot roll next season and do it justice. Perhaps Maclin as well but he has not shown the ability to shoot from that spot, which is essential to the Princeton's efficacy.

If either PWII or Summer can distribute well from that spot, as all Princeton high posters must, then I think that Georgetown is being underestimated, at least by the pundits.

[Troublemaker]

And what about Kansas?

Top 10 team, but I like Duke just a bit better. Again, you could put them ahead of Duke and I wouldn't quibble. I'm worried about Brandon Rush. That was a serious surgery he had. I don't expect him to be the same, and like Georgetown with Jeff Green, Kansas will miss Julian Wright. Those are probably their top two players from last season.

[Lord Ash]

Dude, you think there are only four teams in the country better than Duke?

Eh, I think that is very very off-base.

[Troublemaker]

Dude, you think there are only four teams in the country better than Duke?

Eh, I think that is very very off-base.

I guess we'll see. To confess, I thought last season would go well for Duke as well, and I was wrong there. But I think I'm on the money this season.

In terms of overall talent, how the players fit together and synergize, how they allow the coaching staff to execute strategies, and intangibles, I only like the 4 aforementioned teams better. I do like a bunch of teams almost as much as Duke, though. And, of course, all of this is just on paper.

[Wander]

Nope. Not in my mind. Again, my short blurb answer would be that G'town will miss Jeff Green a lot, and I thought they overachieved last season and will "return to mean" a bit this season. Do they have talented players waiting in line to step in for Green? Sure, but I doubt they can re-create his impact this season. They'll still be a good team, though. As for Tennessee, it's an easier comparison because they strike me as having similar strengths and weaknesses. I just think Duke will be stronger in our shared strengths and probably stronger in our shared weaknesses as well. Again, just a short blurb answer.


How did Georgetown overachieve last season? That improved steadily as the season went on, had one of the two best frontcourts in the country, had one of the best offenses in the country, a very good defense, good guards, a considerable amount of experience, and a very good coach. They won the Big East regular season, the Big East tournament, and got a high seed in the NCAAs. Where's the overachievement or fluke?

Obviously every season there are surprises, and there have been much stranger things than Duke being the 5th best team in the country this season. But that isn't a reasonable thing to project right now - especially not over Georgetown.

[Troublemaker]

FWIW, the current Vegas odds more or less agree with me. They only have 5 teams ahead of Duke (my four and Georgetown). And in case anyone is wondering how much Joe Public bettor has an effect on these odds, check out who is tied with Duke. Washington St. They're certainly not a team that's going to get public bettors hammering them, but they're up there because it's sharp to have them up there. That's going to be a very good team.

1033 North Carolina 500
1014 Georgetown 800
1025 Louisville 800
1028 Memphis 800
1045 UCLA 800
1058 Field 1200
1011 Duke 1500
1051 Washington State 1500
1021 Kansas 1800
1023 Kentucky 2000
1037 Oregon 2000
1041 Tennessee 2000
1046 Southern Cal 2000
1003 Arizona 2500
1019 Indiana 2500
1031 Michigan State 2500
1035 Notre Dame 3000
1039 Stanford 3000
1053 U Conn 3000
1032 Mississippi State 3500
1016 Georgia Tech 4000
1026 Marquette 4000
1038 Pittsburgh 4000
1040 Syracuse 4000
1050 Washington 4000
1017 Gonzaga 4500
1002 Alabama 5000
1005 Arkansas 5000
1009 Clemson 5000
1018 Illinois 5000
1027 Maryland 5000
1034 North Carolina State 5000
1042 Texas 5000
1047 Villanova 5000
1022 Kansas State 6000
1024 LSU 6000
1036 Ohio State 6600
1048 Virginia 6600
1012 Florida 7500
1043 Texas A&M 7500

[Troublemaker]

How did Georgetown overachieve last season? That improved steadily as the season went on, had one of the two best frontcourts in the country, had one of the best offenses in the country, a very good defense, good guards, a considerable amount of experience, and a very good coach. They won the Big East regular season, the Big East tournament, and got a high seed in the NCAAs. Where's the overachievement or fluke?

Obviously every season there are surprises, and there have been much stranger things than Duke being the 5th best team in the country this season. But that isn't a reasonable thing to project right now - especially not over Georgetown.

It's completely reasonable to project Duke over G'town. It's completely reasonable to disagree as well, but it sure as heck is reasonable for me to hold that opinion, especially with the Hoyas playing without Jeff Green and especially since Duke beat them convincingly last season WITH Green.

Everything you said about G'town is true but when I say they overachieved, I mean they played above their talent level. They should not have been all those things you mentioned, and in sports, just because a team was great the previous season doesn't mean they will repeat the success (especially when they lose their best player). LSU was a surprise Final Four team in '06. They lost a lottery pick and became garbage the next season. Is G'town going to be garbage? No. I expect them to be good but disappointing in terms of preseason expectations. And I expect Duke to be better.

[ACCBBallFan]

Whether Zoubek pans out has nothing to do with getting a big in the 09 class. Zoubek would be a senior that year, and as it stands he will be the only true big Duke has for the next two season. Coach K will (or at least should) probably look to get two elite bigs in the 09 class.

I don't think the team this year will be contending for a national championship, though I say that only because I would define "contending" as being a consensus top-10 team with a very good chance at making the Final Four. I think this team has the chance to VASTLY improve over last season's edition, with a cap of most likely the Elite Eight (which if nothing to scoff at, of course). Since we are potentially keeping this year's squad more or less intact (hopefully only losing Nelson), this year's experience for Smith, Zoubek, and Thomas could be such to make us strong contenders for the 09 title.
Well, Jay Bilas who usually sandbags about how good Duke will be has them #9 this year. Duke only loses Nelson.

With or without Elliot Williams, Duke is still well stocked on the perimeter. Those extra 10 man years of experience returning will make Duke a consensus top 10 team next year if they finish say sweet 16 this year.

[Wander]

It's completely reasonable to project Duke over G'town. It's completely reasonable to disagree as well, but it sure as heck is reasonable for me to hold that opinion, especially with the Hoyas playing without Jeff Green and especially since Duke beat them convincingly last season WITH Green.


No, it still isn't reasonable. Opinions may not be able to be wrong or right, but they can be absurd and illogical. Georgetown has some questions, and Duke has some questions (Duke obviously has many more), but by dismissing Georgetown's season as a fluke and using that as part of your argument you're revealing your opinion to be unreasonable. If Duke is a better team than Georgetown this season - and while I don't expect that, stranger things have happened - it won't be because Georgetown overachieved last season.

[throatybeard]

Duke only loses Nelson.

Which we hope, as Victor Borge said. NBA draft and all.

[Troublemaker]

No, it still isn't reasonable. Opinions may not be able to be wrong or right, but they can be absurd and illogical. Georgetown has some questions, and Duke has some questions (Duke obviously has many more), but by dismissing Georgetown's season as a fluke and using that as part of your argument you're revealing your opinion to be unreasonable. If Duke is a better team than Georgetown this season - and while I don't expect that, stranger things have happened - it won't be because Georgetown overachieved last season.

Right because that was the sum total of my argument :rolleyes:. I said G'town overachieved and left it at that. No mention of losing their best player Jeff Green, no mention of how a surprise Final Four team the previous season had also faltered after losing a lottery pick.

And Georgetown DID overachieve according to what I perceive their talent level to have been. You can disagree, but that doesn't make me unreasonable. They don't really have that many creators on their team, and Green was sort of the lynchpin to having all the pieces work together and make that offense efficient. Without him, a lot of their players will be less effective and will play more to their base talent level. Again, I expect Georgetown to be good. Duke will be better.

[Jumbo]

Like I said, K can use the Gary "why MD doesn't graduate players" Williams argument to justify the development of it's big men. Which is why the recruits go elsewhere. If you want to be a PG, go to Duke. If you're not a PG, you're unlikely to earn K's trust.

To translate, FewFac: "My entire argument just got destroyed, so now I'm going to make some weird comparison that makes no sense."

[Jumbo]

Wow, all this talk has my head spinning. Don't any of you just enjoy watching the game and rooting for your team? Results are for when that experience is over and done. There is no more game.

Ah, its the afterglow that you long for, bragging rights, and what leads up to the game. But, watching the play, appreciating all that goes into it, somehow gets lost in the off season talk.

Me, I'm excited to see how K and this team take shape with the personnel on hand. I'm sure that the team will have a different style than last year's, and than any of his teams for some time. Seeing how K helps the team mold and present itself should be a hoot. I'm looking forward to it.

Maybe the best post in this entire thread.

[bfree]

Maybe the best post in this entire thread.

I don't think thats completely fair Jumbo. There are different kinds of fans. I for one love how teams are built and created nearly as much as I love watching my team succeed. I love trades, the draft, transfers (in Euroope), free agency... and recruiting. I'm a gigantic Duke fan, when I took in my first game in Cameron as a freshman and I first got what started calling "Cameron goosebumps," I knew I'd be a Duke fan the rest of my life. That doesn't mean I can't be concerned with, critical of, excited about, thrilled with, or dismayed by Duke recruiting. To me, and many others, thats just another fun part about being a fan.

-bfree

(True story, Madden on PS2 used to a have a feature where you could draft the entire NFL to start a season in franchise mode. I used to draft my team, play the first quarter, then start over... loved it.)

[Jumbo]

I don't think thats completely fair Jumbo. There are different kinds of fans. I for one love how teams are built and created nearly as much as I love watching my team succeed. I love trades, the draft, transfers (in Euroope), free agency... and recruiting. I'm a gigantic Duke fan, when I took in my first game in Cameron as a freshman and I first got what started calling "Cameron goosebumps," I knew I'd be a Duke fan the rest of my life. That doesn't mean I can't be concerned with, critical of, excited about, thrilled with, or dismayed by Duke recruiting. To me, and many others, thats just another fun part about being a fan.

-bfree

(True story, Madden on PS2 used to a have a feature where you could draft the entire NFL to start a season in franchise mode. I used to draft my team, play the first quarter, then start over... loved it.)

It's not fair for me to express my view as to the best post in the thread?

[bfree]

It's not fair for me to express my view as to the best post in the thread?

Okay, you're right. "Not fair" isn't the best way to say it...

It seems like people who don't care about recruiting look down on those who do care. It seems like many think the "role" of a fan is to be a supporter who simply loves his/her team, coach, stadium, players, etc. And the moment I walk into Cameron and the opposing team gets out on the court to warm up, thats the kind of fan I am. But not during the offseason, and not even on offdays.

Anyway, not caring about recruiting is fine, but so is caring about recruiting. Not questioning anything Duke or K does is great, but so is being critical.

Hope that's better...

Edit: And I'm not saying you (or the original "best post"er) don't care about recruiting, just something about anointing a post which basically says, "shut up and support your troops" as the best post of the thread rubbed me the wrong way.

[greybeard]

Right because that was the sum total of my argument :rolleyes:. I said G'town overachieved and left it at that. No mention of losing their best player Jeff Green, no mention of how a surprise Final Four team the previous season had also faltered after losing a lottery pick.

And Georgetown DID overachieve according to what I perceive their talent level to have been. You can disagree, but that doesn't make me unreasonable. They don't really have that many creators on their team, and Green was sort of the lynchpin to having all the pieces work together and make that offense efficient. Without him, a lot of their players will be less effective and will play more to their base talent level. Again, I expect Georgetown to be good. Duke will be better.

Not saying that I disagree but only because the high pivot in the Princeton is so, well, pivotal. That said, Carrill was always able to develop people, in the 6'7" range to step in. PEII has most of what is needed except he tends to play loose when he puts it on the floor. That coould be a real problem. The typical princeton attack from on top results in little hooks that avoid charges and are extremely repeatable. PEII likes to do loopdyloops too often. He also has made some improvident attacks with the pass from the wing. He might well take to the position better than one might predict if he is the chosen one.

Summers would kill people shooting from the top. You'd have to have a big up on him in a way that Sheldon was on Green, only in this case it would not just be to stop the catch and distribute. Questions about speed of decision making, passing execution, and taking what is easy off the drive but here I actually think that Summers would do quite well. He might be the high pivot.

If either of them do the USUAL good job in that spot that Carrill/JTIII always seem to develop, look out. This team could then well be better than the team with Green. I expect much more production from Macklin. They are extremely deep and versatile at guard. Rivers might well be the most improved player on the Court. If so, that will mean that he makes the 3. He makes the 3, the way he defends, and finds the ball when it is free, he could push Sapp and Wallace hard. The two freshman, especially the 6'4" swing guy, and Crawford, 6'4" shooter/scorer hurt most of last year, make this a team you might not want any part of.

Of course, if neither Ewing or Summer can play the high pivot, and Macklin proves incapable too, then they will really miss Green. I expect that they will miss Green, but not as much as people expect.

Bottom line, Duke is lucky that they took a year off from the home and home with Georgetown. I think that Duke would have gotten schooled. Oh, I didn't even mention the best offensive big in the country, maybe in the last several years.

[Troublemaker]

That may very well have been true, brother. Thing is, I don't consider Duke lucky in that case. I want them to play the best teams and improve and learn even if that means losing or losing big. FWIW, I think in a hypothetical matchup, Duke would force a lot of turnovers and the blowout may occur the other way around. Maybe they'll meet in the Final Four and we'll see what happens.

[Jumbo]

Not saying that I disagree but only because the high pivot in the Princeton is so, well, pivotal. That said, Carrill was always able to develop people, in the 6'7" range to step in. PEII has most of what is needed except he tends to play loose when he puts it on the floor. That coould be a real problem. The typical princeton attack from on top results in little hooks that avoid charges and are extremely repeatable. PEII likes to do loopdyloops too often. He also has made some improvident attacks with the pass from the wing. He might well take to the position better than one might predict if he is the chosen one.

Summers would kill people shooting from the top. You'd have to have a big up on him in a way that Sheldon was on Green, only in this case it would not just be to stop the catch and distribute. Questions about speed of decision making, passing execution, and taking what is easy off the drive but here I actually think that Summers would do quite well. He might be the high pivot.

If either of them do the USUAL good job in that spot that Carrill/JTIII always seem to develop, look out. This team could then well be better than the team with Green. I expect much more production from Macklin. They are extremely deep and versatile at guard. Rivers might well be the most improved player on the Court. If so, that will mean that he makes the 3. He makes the 3, the way he defends, and finds the ball when it is free, he could push Sapp and Wallace hard. The two freshman, especially the 6'4" swing guy, and Crawford, 6'4" shooter/scorer hurt most of last year, make this a team you might not want any part of.

Of course, if neither Ewing or Summer can play the high pivot, and Macklin proves incapable too, then they will really miss Green. I expect that they will miss Green, but not as much as people expect.

Bottom line, Duke is lucky that they took a year off from the home and home with Georgetown. I think that Duke would have gotten schooled. Oh, I didn't even mention the best offensive big in the country, maybe in the last several years.

I actually think Georgetown is excellent, am quite familiar with the intricacies of the Princeton Offense, and don't think they overachieved at all last year. That said, a few things.

-Troublemaker is right, in that Jeff Green is an enormous loss. But this year's Georgetown team has far more supporting talent. Wright and Freeman are huge additions to a backcourt that lacked depth and versatility last year. And I think Summers is going to be fantastic. Ewing and Macklin are good players, too, but I think Summers might end up playing a lot of 4.
-The traditional Princeton set is actually a 5-out, 2-guard front. The "high pivot" is often the 5, so JT III has already tweaked things at Princeton to make it work for Hibbert inside.
-Hibbert is not the best offensive big man in college basketball currently, let alone in a long time. Sorry. He's a good player. He's not an offensive force.
-My understanding is that Duke didn't postpone the Georgetown series. It was the other way around. I could be wrong, but that's what I heard.
-Georgetown is easily one of the five best teams in the country this year.

[Jumbo]

Okay, you're right. "Not fair" isn't the best way to say it...

It seems like people who don't care about recruiting look down on those who do care. It seems like many think the "role" of a fan is to be a supporter who simply loves his/her team, coach, stadium, players, etc. And the moment I walk into Cameron and the opposing team gets out on the court to warm up, thats the kind of fan I am. But not during the offseason, and not even on offdays.

Anyway, not caring about recruiting is fine, but so is caring about recruiting. Not questioning anything Duke or K does is great, but so is being critical.

Hope that's better...

Edit: And I'm not saying you (or the original "best post"er) don't care about recruiting, just something about anointing a post which basically says, "shut up and support your troops" as the best post of the thread rubbed me the wrong way.

I don't think anyone is saying anything remotely resembling your accusations above. And the post didn't basically say "shut up and support your troops." It added a dose of big-picture perspective to the current situation. To phrase it another way, the joy is in the journey, not the destination. Try to enjoy the ride.

[mgtr]

I am basically on the side of greybeard -- show me the games. I am not waiting to revel in the stats, I want to see the games. I couldn't wait for practice to start, and I can't wait for the games to start. I would pay actual dollars to see the practices, like a little bird on Coach Ks shoulder. We are fortiunate that we are not fans of XYZ state college, where we get 6 games televised during the season (if we are lucky). Basically all the games are on TV. So, even if we are in Florida for the winter (tough duty, I know, but somebody has to do it), we get to see all the games, many on our 65" HD.
My wife and I put on our Duke shirts and socks, drink from our Duke glasses, use our Duke coasters and Duke bottle openers. All this with zero relationship with DU. Neither of us has even been closer to the Duke campus than I85. But, we love college basketball, and Duke is our team. Even last year, where there were many disappointments, we were still proudly Duke BB fans. We are a lot like JJ, who, it is reported, was asked what his second choice was after Duke. He stated that he had no second choice. We agree -- it is all Duke, all the time.
And then in March, thanks to Directv, we get to see every single game (or possibly every Singler game!) of the big dance, most in HD. We expect much more from Duke in that tournament than we got last year.
Let the games begin! Win, lose, or draw, I will be sad when April and May roll around, since there will be no more games until November.

[Troublemaker]

For G'town, whoever can pass + shoot the best will replace Green in the offense. Summers probably has the edge on Ewing and Macklin there, and if he can shoot about 40% from three and pass efficiently, the Hoyas can indeed be as formidable or better than they were last season. If Summers can't do it (and Ewing and Macklin can't either), then G'town will need the two freshman guards to be REALLY good and perhaps even outright replace Wallace and Sapp in order to keep pace with the top 5 teams. I actually like Wallace and Sapp. I think they're solid players but I don't think they're dynamic and I think they are players that Green made better than they are. One of the reasons we hold G'town in such high regards is BECAUSE they made the Final Four. Sounds obvious, until we remember that they were a Jeff Green last-second bankshot/travel away from being outed by Vanderbilt in the Sweet 16. Would we still project them as highly if he had missed? The line between being a top-5, Final Four team and being just another good team is indeed very thin.

Hibbert's an excellent big man but he needs to step out and shoot the ball from 15 feet consistently to be considered the best offensive big man in the country. One of the reasons UNC is going to be tough to stop is that I suspect Hansbrough, with his work ethic, will be equipped with a 15-footer this season to go along with his bruisingly efficient inside game. My vote for best offensive big this season probably goes to either him or Kevin Love.

[Troublemaker]

I am basically on the side of greybeard -- show me the games. I am not waiting to revel in the stats, I want to see the games. I couldn't wait for practice to start, and I can't wait for the games to start. I would pay actual dollars to see the practices, like a little bird on Coach Ks shoulder. We are fortiunate that we are not fans of XYZ state college, where we get 6 games televised during the season (if we are lucky). Basically all the games are on TV. So, even if we are in Florida for the winter (tough duty, I know, but somebody has to do it), we get to see all the games, many on our 65" HD.
My wife and I put on our Duke shirts and socks, drink from our Duke glasses, use our Duke coasters and Duke bottle openers. All this with zero relationship with DU. Neither of us has even been closer to the Duke campus than I85. But, we love college basketball, and Duke is our team. Even last year, where there were many disappointments, we were still proudly Duke BB fans. We are a lot like JJ, who, it is reported, was asked what his second choice was after Duke. He stated that he had no second choice. We agree -- it is all Duke, all the time.
And then in March, thanks to Directv, we get to see every single game (or possibly every Singler game!) of the big dance, most in HD. We expect much more from Duke in that tournament than we got last year.
Let the games begin! Win, lose, or draw, I will be sad when April and May roll around, since there will be no more games until November.

Word. I'm really, really looking forward to the Maui Invitational this season. Those days are going to be "work from home" days.

[greybeard]

I actually think Georgetown is excellent, am quite familiar with the intricacies of the Princeton Offense, and don't think they overachieved at all last year. That said, a few things.

-Troublemaker is right, in that Jeff Green is an enormous loss. But this year's Georgetown team has far more supporting talent. Wright and Freeman are huge additions to a backcourt that lacked depth and versatility last year. And I think Summers is going to be fantastic. Ewing and Macklin are good players, too, but I think Summers might end up playing a lot of 4.
-The traditional Princeton set is actually a 5-out, 2-guard front. The "high pivot" is often the 5, so JT III has already tweaked things at Princeton to make it work for Hibbert inside.
-Hibbert is not the best offensive big man in college basketball currently, let alone in a long time. Sorry. He's a good player. He's not an offensive force.
-My understanding is that Duke didn't postpone the Georgetown series. It was the other way around. I could be wrong, but that's what I heard.
-Georgetown is easily one of the five best teams in the country this year.

Green is a terific player and perhaps the best high post pivot the princeton has known, Chris while with the Kings included. That said, as I've mentioned, like his mentor, JTIII has shown the ability to help young bigs to develop themselves into high posts pivots who really understand and execute the game from that perspective. Hibbert himself, if he had a regular 16 footer, would be terrific. He has already shown a decent mastery of the other demands of the position. He will in the main spend time below but on nearly every possession, comes up to the high pivot.

The reason that I don't know how much they will lose with Green's loss is because, with JTIII's mentorship, not to mention his assistants', it might well be that a really effective high post pivot emerges from among Summers, Ewing, and Macklin, or perhaps by committee. If Summers proves a good (quick and decisive) decision maker and does not turn it over off the pass from that position, he could be an offensive machine. He has a more assertive scorer mindset than Green; Green was extraordinary in the other aspects of the position; Summers has yet to show similar gifts. We'll have to see.

Hibbert, we'll have to disagree here Jumbo. He has terrific hands and feet (those feet might seem lumbering, but he is rarely off balance and finds ways to organize himself from seemingly awkward positions to attack in rhythm and balance). He can and does deliver the ball in a variety of modes, and has multiple ways to score off of the interior catches he makes. He is extremely bright. He has a great touch. If he catches with advantage, which he manages to do often (the feet, hands, and mind make him a terrific receiver of the ball, who creates passing opportunities instead of waiting for them), he finishes a high percentage. He gives the ball up without turnover and often to great effect.

We disagree on Hibbert, respectfully though, Jumbo, very, very respectfully. Now that I think about it, saying anyone is the "best" rarely is wise; fits my profile, I guess. ;)

[FewFAC]

To translate, FewFac: "My entire argument just got destroyed, so now I'm going to make some weird comparison that makes no sense."

As long as you're going to make personal attacks Jumbo, I'm going to continue to ignore you. Besides, if my argument had actually been destroyed, K wouldn't be missing on recruits, would he?

[RepoMan]

And how is that a "personal" attack?

He attacked your argument and your comparison. He didn't say you were a goof ball.

[drksuh]

Source being an assistant coach who threw me a tidbit from the horse's mouth that Monroe is playing it out for his benefit, but will be ours.

[jimsumner]

First I've heard of it.

Please don't be offended but I'd give this more credibility if it came from a known poster with more of a history.

But I could be wrong.

[yancem]

Source being an assistant coach who threw me a tidbit from the horse's mouth that Monroe is playing it out for his benefit, but will be ours.

Huh? Monroe is playing what out? What kind of game is he supposed to be playing? Sorry to be skeptical but that doesn't make any sense to me. Is he stringing G'Town along? Don't think I like that idea. Did something happen to make him change his mind? Your statement pretty criptic!

[JasonEvans]

Source being an assistant coach who threw me a tidbit from the horse's mouth that Monroe is playing it out for his benefit, but will be ours.

There is a zero percent chance that Duke coaches would condone or approve of this type of action. Personally, I'd be disgusted if we knew Monroe was lying to Georgetown and stringing them along. We do not "Ron Curry" other schools. It is classless.

If Monroe wants to reopen his recruitment, fine, but I really frown on this sort of thing. I think it is far better for him to just wait to make his committment. There is no rush. He is in control of the situation. When he says, "this is my school," he should stick with that statement unless something dramatic happens to change his mind.

--Jason "I wish Monroe the best at Gtown" Evans

[yancem]

Why has this new information/speculation been attached with the "Monroe to G'Town" thread. I understand that the subject is similar but if I hadn't seen the original title I would have assumed that people were still kicking a dead horse.

Granted this horse was probably dead to start but I'm curious to hear people's thoughts. I don't think that now the new thread has been folded into the old thread anyone will see it.

[rthomas]

I thought that rumors of this type were not tolerated on this site.

[-jk]

I thought that rumors of this type were not tolerated on this site.

We don't tolerate "destructively negative" rumors. This is just a silly rumor.

(And won't we be red-faced if it turns out to be true! But somehow, I can't see K recruiting players who have already verbally committed somewhere else.)

-jk

[hondoheel]

There is a zero percent chance that Duke coaches would condone or approve of this type of action. Personally, I'd be disgusted if we knew Monroe was lying to Georgetown and stringing them along. We do not "Ron Curry" other schools. It is classless.

If Monroe wants to reopen his recruitment, fine, but I really frown on this sort of thing. I think it is far better for him to just wait to make his committment. There is no rush. He is in control of the situation. When he says, "this is my school," he should stick with that statement unless something dramatic happens to change his mind.

--Jason "I wish Monroe the best at Gtown" Evans

Naturally you single out a UNC guy (a great guy who has persevered through more injury hardships than any other athlete I've ever seen.) But it is common in football recruitment for verbals to change schools all the way up to signing day. Curry was on a football ride, and just happened to play hoops too.

[throatybeard]

Naturally you single out a UNC guy (a great guy who has persevered through more injury hardships than any other athlete I've ever seen.) But it is common in football recruitment for verbals to change schools all the way up to signing day. Curry was on a football ride, and just happened to play hoops too.

That's true now Hondo. But it didn't happen a whole lot before Curry, or it wasn't as well publicized, and so he sort of became the poster child for that. Tank Macnamara did a strip on the fan reaction to it. Also, the very late timing of Curry's de-commitment seemed to separate his case from these FB guys who go one way and then renege 48 hrs later. Curry screwed Virginia like 4 or 5 months after his original oral.

[Lulu]

this is ridiculous without supporting evidence, yet, somehow i almost expected this rumor to start after our new offense exhibition routs

[Carlos]

Naturally you single out a UNC guy (a great guy who has persevered through more injury hardships than any other athlete I've ever seen.) But it is common in football recruitment for verbals to change schools all the way up to signing day. Curry was on a football ride, and just happened to play hoops too.

He has a point, Jason. In the future please call this Ty Walker-ing a school.

[devildeac]

He has a point, Jason. In the future please call this Ty Walker-ing a school.

You may have to 'splain this one, 'los. I believe I get the reference to the WFU recruit but those who live outside the Triangle/NC area may not.

[Carlos]

Before Skip's untimely passing there were rumors that another college team was reaching out to Walker to see if he was firm in his verbal to Wake.

[devildeac]

Before Skip's untimely passing there were rumors that another college team was reaching out to Walker to see if he was firm in his verbal to Wake.

And I think those rumors persisted even after Prosser's sudden death that another Triangle school(cough, cough), down the road from the boys in royal blue(cough, cough) were still 'interested'...

[throatybeard]

I'm sad that I can never again use the phrase "Prosser's presser." :(

[mgtr]

I'm sad that I can never again use the phrase "Prosser's presser." :(

Yes, that is a real depresser. I suppose you had in mind something like "Prosser's presser put an incredibly sharp crease in his pants." Or, maybe "Prosser's presser on his team kept Wake Forest in the hunt."

[NYC Duke Fan]

The New York Times reported that Greg Monroe was turned off when Coach K and his assistants showed up at his house in a stretch limo.

Sounds like nonsense to me.

Anyone know anything about this....I gues Watzone could shed some light

[wisteria]

The New York Times reported that Greg Monroe was turned off when Coach K and his assistants showed up at his house in a stretch limo.

Sounds like nonsense to me.

Anyone know anything about this....I gues Watzone could shed some light

I guess I would've been turned off. If that was really the case, I'm not surprised that someone is more comfortable with a laid-back approach. It's not like Gtown is that bad of a choice compared to Duke.

My question is: why would you show up in a stretch limo in the first place?

[cspan37421]

My question is: why would you show up in a stretch limo in the first place?

Do we even know that either part of the story is true? The NYT has been known to get a few things wrong lately. [I just checked - the source of the story is Mike Wise of the Washington Post. Not a Maryland grad, btw - Fresno State]

Assuming it is true, maybe someone who didn't want him here planted info with the Duke staff that Greg would like that sort of thing.

[weezie]

Who knows? Maybe they ordered a towncar and the stretch showed up. Maybe K & Co. demanded a replacement and the poor driver begged that it wasn't his fault and to please accept the stretch or he would lose his job and the means to feed his eight children.
I mean, really.....

[TwoDukeTattoos]

Who knows? Maybe they ordered a towncar and the stretch showed up. Maybe K & Co. demanded a replacement and the poor driver begged that it wasn't his fault and to please accept the stretch or he would lose his job and the means to feed his eight children.
I mean, really.....

Exactly. K is a classy guy and if he showed in a limo I am sure there was a good reason that had absolutely nothing to do with using it as a recruiting tactic. It sounds as though the NY writer is just looking for something to write and and a K limo is the best he could come up with. Besides, Monroe has already not committed to Duke, so let's move on.

[billybreen]

Side question: I seem to remember a story about Battier being turned off by Pitino during his recruitment. As I recall, Pitino called him from a luxury box at some sporting event (details really hazy) in a vain attempt to impress a young Shane.

Does anyone remember more details?

[Rich]

Who knows? Maybe they ordered a towncar and the stretch showed up.

Not that I'm complaining or confirming that happened here, but that error has happened to me on several occasions.

[Rudy]

Since this is spinning OT a bit, I'll toss in the old story about G'town when they were recruiting Grant Hill. You'll recall Grant's dad was a Yale man and his mom a Wellesley woman. He was pretty well educated and attended a public school in the Virginia suburbs of D.C. On Grant's Georgetown visit one of the staff handed him a book and asked him to read it. Grant opened it and began to read to himself. The staffer, said no I meant read it out loud. They wanted to check to see if this talented black kid could actually read. Properly insulted, Grant took G'town off his list.

[billybreen]

Since this is spinning OT a bit, I'll toss in the old story about G'town when they were recruiting Grant Hill. You'll recall Grant's dad was a Yale man and his mom a Wellesley woman. He was pretty well educated and attended a public school in the Virginia suburbs of D.C. On Grant's Georgetown visit one of the staff handed him a book and asked him to read it. Grant opened it and began to read to himself. The staffer, said no I meant read it out loud. They wanted to check to see if this talented black kid could actually read. Properly insulted, Grant took G'town off his list.

Do you have a citation for that? That seems too crazy to be true.

[wisteria]

yeah...that's crazy. I mean how can you be that stupid and arrogant?

[jipops]

Do you have a citation for that? That seems too crazy to be true.

I re-call hearing that in an interview with Grant himself. The story came from Grant so there is a good bet it's true.

[billybreen]

I re-call hearing that in an interview with Grant himself. The story came from Grant so there is a good bet it's true.

Yeah, I would love to see that interview or a transcript. It just sounds so outrageous. Is that really how JT ran his show?

[JasonEvans]

Yeah, I would love to see that interview or a transcript. It just sounds so outrageous. Is that really how JT ran his show?

Well, Georgetown was not exactly known for taking mental giants back when JT was the coach. Patrick Ewing had serious learning and speech disabilities, I believe, when he went to Georgetown.

I have no idea how true or false the story is, but it would not be unbelievable to me for Georgetown to wonder if a kid they were recruiting could actually read.

That said, JT is to be commended for giving a lot of these poorly educated kids a chance. I think, much like Cheney at Temple, he took kids who were academic risks and tried to mold them into students and citizens as much as he could. That's quite admirable.

--Jason "Georgetown used to take a fair number of Jucos too, I think" Evans

[Rudy]

I remember reading it a couple of years ago in the Washington Post. Today I found this on a Georgetown fansite http://hoyatalk2.proboards48.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=14684&page=1
This was posted in January:

“Hoya fans,

I'm going to start creating some lists about the Hoya program and wanted to see you what you all thought.

Here is a list of the school's biggest recruiting losses.

1. Kenny Anderson-Kenny wanted to be a Hoya, ever since he was in 7th grade, but Coach Thompson decided not to make a home visit. Coach Thompson why oh why didn't you drop by at the Anderson crib?

2. Grant Hill-Grant grew up as Georgetown fan also and attended games as a season ticket holder. However Mary Fenlon asks Grant Hill to read from a book aloud during a visit to campus and asks him to tell her what exactly he read. Insulted by the request, Grant decides he's not coming to Georgetown.”

[wiscodevil]

I remember reading it a couple of years ago in the Washington Post. Today I found this on a Georgetown fansite http://hoyatalk2.proboards48.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=14684&page=1
This was posted in January:

“Hoya fans,

I'm going to start creating some lists about the Hoya program and wanted to see you what you all thought.

Here is a list of the school's biggest recruiting losses.

1. Kenny Anderson-Kenny wanted to be a Hoya, ever since he was in 7th grade, but Coach Thompson decided not to make a home visit. Coach Thompson why oh why didn't you drop by at the Anderson crib?

2. Grant Hill-Grant grew up as Georgetown fan also and attended games as a season ticket holder. However Mary Fenlon asks Grant Hill to read from a book aloud during a visit to campus and asks him to tell her what exactly he read. Insulted by the request, Grant decides he's not coming to Georgetown.”

that doesn't make it true.

[Rudy]

that doesn't make it true.

Maybe it's legend but it is a story that's out there. I don't know the family so I can't get a primary source on it.

Here's a third reference, just looking today. From the same Georgetown fansite but the entry is from 2005, in the midst of a debate about whether John Thompson II was racist in his recruiting:

http://hoyatalk2.proboards48.com/index.cgi?board=bluegray&action=display&thread=11650 4/16/05

"Some people saw what JTII did as racist, others saw it for what it was. Grant Hill was recruited hard by JTII, but did not come to GU because he was offended that he was asked to read a book out loud. Is that racist? I think Grant Hill thought it was -- so is JTII racist against blacks or whites? The answer is neither. JTII is/was an educator."

I don't even blame JTII for the Grant Hill blunder. He certainly would have known Grant's family history and would never have made such a mistake personally. I also don't think JTII was a racist, the record is that he did recruit white players too, including Rex Chapman.

[billybreen]

That said, JT is to be commended for giving a lot of these poorly educated kids a chance. I think, much like Cheney at Temple, he took kids who were academic risks and tried to mold them into students and citizens as much as he could. That's quite admirable.

After reading this story from Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Thompson_%28basketball%29) (therefore, it's true, however grammatically challenged), I think very highly of JTjr:


In the late 1980s, Thompson got word that his star center, Alonzo Mourning, was associating with noted DC drug lord (and avid Hoya fan) Rayful Edmond III[2]. At the height of his empire, Edmond became very friendly with several Hoya players. When Thompson found out what was happening, he sent word through his sources to have Edmond meet him at his office at McDonough Gymnasium. When Edmond arrived, Thompson was initially cordial, and informed Edmond that he needed to cease all contacts with his players post haste, specifically Alonzo Mourning, whom had befriended Edmond.[3] When Edmond tried to tell him not to worry, that Mourning was not involved in anything illegal, the 6'10" Thompson stood up and put his finger in Edmond's face. A profanity-laced tirade ensued, in which Thompson told Edmond not to (expletive) with him, and that he was not going to repeat himself: stay the (expletive) away from his players, or Edmond would suffer serious consequences.[4] By all accounts, Edmond never associated with a Hoya basketball player again and was sentenced to life in prison shortly thereafter.

[weezie]

That makes JTThe Deuce a bit more interesting. Did he warn anyone away from messing with Allen Iverson?
I like that he refused to say PsychoTbangs name during a recent discussion (on Sportstalk 980) of who was the likely NCAA MVP. Hibbert was his choice at the time...last week, i.e.