Time for Greenberg to take a hike?

[OZ]

Last night, during the game, an incident occurred in front of State's bench where Allen became entangled with a State player. Afterwards, they reshowed the scene and Bilas explained, "This stuff happens all the time. It's absolutely nothing." His broadcasting partner rightfully pointed out that this "being Allen could be made an issue." http://thespun.com/acc/duke/watch-grayson-allen-nc-states-terry-henderson-get-tangled-up-in-front-of-bench

Well, Greenberg didn't let that opportunity slid beneath him...as his tweet indicates... "I seriously feel it is not in Allen's best interest to play the remainder of the season. He surely is not himself and seems distracted!"

This morning, while in a waiting room, this video was replayed on ESPN and Greenberg was front and center for Allen to "step away from basketball." With the elbow and drag down taking place last night and this is what Seth concludes by selecting this incident? I am not a professional here, but it seems Seth has more of a problem with Allen than is normal/necessary. I think, perhaps, it's time for Greenberg to step away. He's obviously can't let this go.

[bluedev_92]

Last night, during the game, an incident occurred in front of State's bench where Allen became entangled with a State player. Afterwards, they reshowed the scene and Bilas explained, "This stuff happens all the time. It's absolutely nothing." His broadcasting partner rightfully pointed out that this "being Allen could be made an issue." http://thespun.com/acc/duke/watch-grayson-allen-nc-states-terry-henderson-get-tangled-up-in-front-of-bench

Well, Greenberg didn't let that opportunity slid beneath him...as his tweet indicates... "I seriously feel it is not in Allen's best interest to play the remainder of the season. He surely is not himself and seems distracted!"

This morning, while in a waiting room, this video was replayed on ESPN and Greenberg was front and center for Allen to "step away from basketball." With the elbow and drag down taking place last night and this is what Seth concludes by selecting this incident? I am not a professional here, but it seems Seth has more of a problem with Allen than is normal/necessary. I think, perhaps, it's time for Greenberg to step away. He's obviously can't let this go.

Seconded. All for?

[weezie]

Y'know, one of the refs looked like Greenberg last night. The bald, clueless looking one.
As opposed to the somewhat more hair-possessing clueless looking other two.

[OldPhiKap]

Seth's just a troll feeding other trolls. Best to ignore him.

[jv001]

Seth needs to give some classes on "how to have your college basketball team on the "bubble" every season and never make the NCAAT. GoDuke!

[killerleft]

Seth couldn't carry Shrek's luggage. But he could be mistaken for him. If Seth was real, that is.

[Jeffrey]

Seth's just a troll feeding other trolls. Best to ignore him.

Who is Seth?

[Devils Librarian]

Are we to honestly believe that if Greenberg was still coaching he would sit a talent like Grayson Allen? It's amazing how altruistic Greenberg has become since taking the analyst gig.

[rsvman]

Are we to honestly believe that if Greenberg was still coaching he would sit a talent like Grayson Allen? It's amazing how altruistic Greenberg has become since taking the analyst gig.

Yup. He never sat Deron Washington, for crying out loud.

[sagegrouse]

Well, Greenberg didn't let that opportunity slid beneath him...as his tweet indicates... "I seriously feel it is not in Allen's best interest to play the remainder of the season. He surely is not himself and seems distracted!"
Uhhh... Seth? Seth? Grayson is due to graduate this summer. So, you're saying he should just quit college basketball for good because he seems "distracted?" This also means, quitting on his team. In what universe does this make any sense?

[Skydog]

Greenberg was obviously way off base suggesting Grayson take the season off. But I didn't take his comment to be about punishing or attacking Grayson - quite the opposite. It was my impression that Greenberg was just doing a poor job of reacting to how very unhappy and completely out of sorts Grayson is and has been for a while. It sounded more like "for his mental health, Grayson needs a break."

Now (again obviously) quitting playing isn't the answer. And personally I don't know what (if anything) would help. But Grayson looks pretty damn miserable most of the time these days. And while this seasons media brouhaha obviously made everything worse I noticed him being out of sorts from the very start of the season and commented on it at the time. He seemed easily frustrated, his confidence in his shot seemed gone, and his confidence overall wasn't there like before. Maybe the pressure of pre-season POY expectations were too big a weight on his shoulders. And trying to change his game to be more of a pg at the same time didn't help. Or maybe his girlfriend dumped him - who knows what goes on with these college kids. Or maybe all three. Whatever it was - Grayson didn't look right at the beginning of the season and then he gets attacked mercilessly in the press. Things just went downhill from there.

Speculating here about another contributor - but I wonder if the team even gets along? There seems like there may be factions/tensions - just an impression. But Kennard doesn't seem happy either. Who knows?

I just know the team often doesn't look like a its having much fun and Grayson looks like he is having the least of all.

But I agree that Greenberg should have just said he was worried about the kid, if that's what he meant.

[richardjackson199]

This whole notion is ridiculous. If someone had any "mental health issues", and to be clear I've seen zero evidence that anybody in question does (other than Seth - maybe Narcissistic Personality Disorder helped get him fired from Tech), his suggestion would make no sense. Mental health professionals do not recommend quitting something that people are really damn good at and enjoy to treat a mental health issue (or perhaps the lack of a mental health issue in this case).

Narcisstic personality disorder, sadly, can be difficult to treat as there is often no insight and the patients always know more than the professionals - like how to treat made-up mental health issues in people they know nothing about.

[TruBlu]

This whole notion is ridiculous. If someone had any "mental health issues", and to be clear I've seen zero evidence that anybody in question does (other than Seth - maybe Narcissistic Personality Disorder helped get him fired from Tech), his suggestion would make no sense. Mental health professionals do not recommend quitting something that people are really damn good at and enjoy to treat a mental health issue (or perhaps the lack of a mental health issue in this case).

Narcisstic personality disorder, sadly, can be difficult to treat as there is often no insight and the patients always know more than the professionals - like how to treat made-up mental health issues in people they know nothing about.

OUCH!! That's gonna leave a mark. Well done.

[Troublemaker]

Now (again obviously) quitting playing isn't the answer. And personally I don't know what (if anything) would help. But Grayson looks pretty damn miserable most of the time these days. And while this seasons media brouhaha obviously made everything worse I noticed him being out of sorts from the very start of the season and commented on it at the time. He seemed easily frustrated, his confidence in his shot seemed gone, and his confidence overall wasn't there like before. Maybe the pressure of pre-season POY expectations were too big a weight on his shoulders. And trying to change his game to be more of a pg at the same time didn't help. Or maybe his girlfriend dumped him - who knows what goes on with these college kids. Or maybe all three. Whatever it was - Grayson didn't look right at the beginning of the season and then he gets attacked mercilessly in the press. Things just went downhill from there.

Speculating here about another contributor - but I wonder if the team even gets along? There seems like there may be factions/tensions - just an impression. But Kennard doesn't seem happy either. Who knows?

I just know the team often doesn't look like a its having much fun and Grayson looks like he is having the least of all.

But I agree that Greenberg should have just said he was worried about the kid, if that's what he meant.

The team was having a blast the 2nd half of Miami and the 1st half of NCSU -- great faces, great body language, smiles, chest bumps, high-fives, the works.

But when we're struggling, they're not happy. At this level, it's mostly just about winning. These guys came to Duke to win, to put up banners, to make themselves the next Duke legends. As we improve, they're going to seem happier and happier.

[mgtr]

Everyone who was a D1 and never fired, take a step forward -- not so fast, there, Seth.

[Skydog]

The team was having a blast the 2nd half of Miami and the 1st half of NCSU -- great faces, great body language, smiles, chest bumps, high-fives, the works.

But when we're struggling, they're not happy. At this level, it's mostly just about winning. These guys came to Duke to win, to put up banners, to make themselves the next Duke legends. As we improve, they're going to seem happier and happier.

You reduced my comment to a triviality - obviously they are going to be ecstatic when they go on 20-1 runs or otherwise blow out teams and less happy when losing. That wasn't what I was talking about. Do you really think Grayson has looked like his normal self this whole season, both play wise and demeanor wise? Do you not wonder when Kennard makes a comment to the press about some players needing to buy in? Before that when was the last time you heard a Duke player make a critical comment about teammates to the press? And do you think the upperclassmen are happy to see that Tatum seems more interested in team-Tatum than passing the ball to an open teammate?

[flyingdutchdevil]

You reduced my comment to a triviality - obviously they are going to be ecstatic when they go on 20-1 runs or otherwise blow out teams and less happy when losing. That wasn't what I was talking about. Do you really think Grayson has looked like his normal self this whole season, both play wise and demeanor wise? Do you not wonder when Kennard makes a comment to the press about some players needing to buy in? Before that when was the last time you heard a Duke player make a critical comment about teammates to the press? And do you think the upperclassmen are happy to see that Tatum seems more interested in team-Tatum than passing the ball to an open teammate?

I sure don't. Grayson is, IMO, playing conservative. Increased energy and passion leads to better play...and potential risks associated with this as well. I'm sure Grayson is learning to channel the positive energy whilst keeping the negative energy down. Waaaaay tougher than it sounds (this coming from someone who is sometimes wired like that too).

[moonpie23]

Eff greenburg and the horse he's beating...

time for grayson to get his monster (http://www.tubechop.com/watch/8830188) back on...

[WVDUKEFAN]

Yessssss!!!!!!!

[Troublemaker]

You reduced my comment to a triviality - obviously they are going to be ecstatic when they go on 20-1 runs or otherwise blow out teams and less happy when losing. That wasn't what I was talking about. Do you really think Grayson has looked like his normal self this whole season, both play wise and demeanor wise? Do you not wonder when Kennard makes a comment to the press about some players needing to buy in? Before that when was the last time you heard a Duke player make a critical comment about teammates to the press? And do you think the upperclassmen are happy to see that Tatum seems more interested in team-Tatum than passing the ball to an open teammate?

Well, that wasn't my intention. Essentially, I just gave my own explanation/theory since you wrote: "but I wonder if the team even gets along? There seems like there may be factions/tensions."

I assume many people here follow a professional sports team or teams as well. If you do, you'll know that very often when fans are disappointed in a team's performance, they speculate that the players don't get along. I'm not saying they or you are necessarily wrong, but it comes up a lot and I'm skeptical.

Re: Luke's comment -- yes, I believe I can find similar quotes from previous seasons. I mean, it's pretty much just a variation of a sports cliche, i.e. "We have to play together, play as one" that we hear from Duke players all the time.

Re: Grayson -- yes, I believe he's unhappy with his play so far this season, with his injuries, and with Tripgate #3. But I believe if he starts playing better and the team improves, he'll be happy.

[Skydog]

Well, that wasn't my intention. Essentially, I just gave my own explanation/theory since you wrote: "but I wonder if the team even gets along? There seems like there may be factions/tensions."

I assume many people here follow a professional sports team or teams as well. If you do, you'll know that very often when fans are disappointed in a team's performance, they speculate that the players don't get along. I'm not saying they or you are necessarily wrong, but it comes up a lot and I'm skeptical.

Re: Luke's comment -- yes, I believe I can find similar quotes from previous seasons. I mean, it's pretty much just a variation of a sports cliche, i.e. "We have to play together, play as one" that we hear from Duke players all the time.

Re: Grayson -- yes, I believe he's unhappy with his play so far this season, with his injuries, and with Tripgate #3. But I believe if he starts playing better and the team improves, he'll be happy.

1. I can't prove it to you but no, my questions about team chemistry are not a knee-jerk reaction driven by a disappointment in the team's performances. I've been a Duke bball fan for 35 years (plus of other pro teams as well) so I'm very familiar with tendency of many fans to over react based on recent performances. I am not one of those fans - quite the opposite actually, for reasons that have to do with my background that I won't go into here.

And btw Kennard didn't just say the usual we need to play together, pull for each other. After the Elon game his exact quote to the media was:
“We have to become a group that is all consumed in just Duke, and by saying that, I’m just saying that we have to just buy in,” said sophomore Luke Kennard, who led all scorers with 21 points. “Every guy on our team, inside, they have individual goals, and that’s a great thing to have, but sometimes those individual goals may tend to sneak up and kind of take over what it’s really all about, and that’s about winning as a group.”

Now Kennard doesn't directly say to the media that he felt some of his teammates were playing selfishly - but I don't know how he could have implied it any more clearly.

2. My observations about Grayson's demeanor and lack of confidence - as I've pointed out twice already - started at the very beginning of the season. This is before we lost a single game, before tripgate 3 happened, before our ACC road disappointments and so on. So no, those are not the explanations for what I'm talking about. I watched him all of last season - saw his ups and downs, his joy and his tantrums - and so I feel I have a good baseline. And based on that in my opinion - and that is all it is, an opinion - I noticed a less confident looking, more tentative Grayson this season from the get go. And I commented on it to fellow Duke fans at the time. At the time I attributed it to the incredibly high (POY) expectations the media and fans had for him. Plus I had read that the plan was for him to change his game a bit to help him fit in the NBA. Then of course a whole lot of crap happened as the season went on and now I think he looks stressed and lacks his old confidence most of the time now. No, not when we go on 20-1 runs, but in between.

But I'm just repeating myself now, so I'll drop it and hope I've imagined everything.

In any case - go Duke!

[jv001]

1. I can't prove it to you but no, my questions about team chemistry are not a knee-jerk reaction driven by a disappointment in the team's performances. I've been a Duke bball fan for 35 years (plus of other pro teams as well) so I'm very familiar with tendency of many fans to over react based on recent performances. I am not one of those fans - quite the opposite actually, for reasons that have to do with my background that I won't go into here.

And btw Kennard didn't just say the usual we need to play together, pull for each other. After the Elon game his exact quote to the media was:
“We have to become a group that is all consumed in just Duke, and by saying that, I’m just saying that we have to just buy in,” said sophomore Luke Kennard, who led all scorers with 21 points. “Every guy on our team, inside, they have individual goals, and that’s a great thing to have, but sometimes those individual goals may tend to sneak up and kind of take over what it’s really all about, and that’s about winning as a group.”

Now Kennard doesn't directly say to the media that he felt some of his teammates were playing selfishly - but I don't know how he could have implied it any more clearly.

2. My observations about Grayson's demeanor and lack of confidence - as I've pointed out twice already - started at the very beginning of the season. This is before we lost a single game, before tripgate 3 happened, before our ACC road disappointments and so on. So no, those are not the explanations for what I'm talking about. I watched him all of last season - saw his ups and downs, his joy and his tantrums - and so I feel I have a good baseline. And based on that in my opinion - and that is all it is, an opinion - I noticed a less confident looking, more tentative Grayson this season from the get go. And I commented on it to fellow Duke fans at the time. At the time I attributed it to the incredibly high (POY) expectations the media and fans had for him. Plus I had read that the plan was for him to change his game a bit to help him fit in the NBA. Then of course a whole lot of crap happened as the season went on and now I think he looks stressed and lacks his old confidence most of the time now. No, not when we go on 20-1 runs, but in between.
But I'm just repeating myself now, so I'll drop it and hope I've imagined everything.

In any case - go Duke!

I think "turf toe" was the reason Grayson looked off, less confident and more tentative at the beginning of the year. I feel that the toe is giving him trouble again. Someone that attended one of the games recently, said he was having trouble elevating to dunk the ball in early warmups. We all know that a healthy Grayson can dunk very easily in warmups and in games. This has been a difficult season for Grayson to say the least. I'm hoping he gets to 100% and we see the real Grayson Allen soon. GoDuke!

[Troublemaker]

1. I can't prove it to you but no, my questions about team chemistry are not a knee-jerk reaction driven by a disappointment in the team's performances.

My friend, I think you continue to read more harshness into my posts than what I intend. You don't need to "prove" anything to me; I will take your word for it, haha.

But we do disagree, and that's all it is -- a disagreement.

Luke's quote to me doesn't stand out as being all that abnormal. I think when you recruit talented players who have NBA aspirations, yes, you will have to deal with the individual vs team dichotomy. Justise Winslow, in either a podcast or an article he wrote -- can't remember which -- admitted that he was selfish early on in his season at Duke, for example. How that manifested itself, I'm not sure, but the 2015 team found chemistry and won a national championship. I'm hoping this team will find its chemistry at some point, too. I think this team's biggest problem is all the injuries, not selfishness that is above and beyond what we've dealt with just fine in previous seasons.

As for Grayson, he was banged up in the preseason and had to sit out practices. Then the toe injury came pretty early on as well. That by itself could explain him not looking right and not that he was particularly unhappy with his teammates.

[alteran]

Seth's just a troll feeding other trolls. Best to ignore him.

Always best to ignore trollish behavior.

This is wisdom I have learned but been unable to actually follow consistently since before the web.

[Fish80]

There is a fine line between being an aggressive scorer and playing selfishly. It takes time to find the right balance.

[Indoor66]

There is a fine line between being an aggressive scorer and playing selfishly. It takes time to find the right balance.

One thing to learn in that process is deference. 😎

[Skydog]

I think "turf toe" was the reason Grayson looked off, less confident and more tentative at the beginning of the year. I feel that the toe is giving him trouble again. Someone that attended one of the games recently, said he was having trouble elevating to dunk the ball in early warmups. We all know that a healthy Grayson can dunk very easily in warmups and in games. This has been a difficult season for Grayson to say the least. I'm hoping he gets to 100% and we see the real Grayson Allen soon. GoDuke!

Good point. Playing in pain and not being able to push off properly when taking jump shots would explain a lot of what I saw early on - the grimacing, his apparent loss of confidence in his outside shot, his reluctance to drive and dunk even when he had a nice path to do so. You are hurting, asked to change your game and expected to be POY all at the same time - wouldn't wish that on any kid.

[szstark]

Today he is calling the team punishment "almost comical". Coming from someone with Seth's overwhelming success record as coach, especially as compared with K's, this is almost laughable, but it isn't funny. Maybe I've lost my sense of humor lately.

[devildeac]

Today he is calling the team punishment "almost comical". Coming from someone with Seth's overwhelming success record as coach, especially as compared with K's, this is almost laughable, but it isn't funny. Maybe I've lost my sense of humor lately.

7106

Not you, of course, but the male donkey espn Addams family doppelganger.

[kAzE]

Today he is calling the team punishment "almost comical". Coming from someone with Seth's overwhelming success record as coach, especially as compared with K's, this is almost laughable, but it isn't funny. Maybe I've lost my sense of humor lately.

Seth obviously knows how to coach this group better than Coach K. /s

[Brockt10]

I turned on SC during lunch and they had a bit about sportsmanship in basketball. It started out talking about college as a whole but quickly turned to coach K while playing Grayson "highlights" on repeat.

[jv001]

I turned on SC during lunch and they had a bit about sportsmanship in basketball. It started out talking about college as a whole but quickly turned to coach K while playing Grayson "highlights" on repeat.

Yes, I think I saw the same thing. Bilas and Paul Finebaum were being interviewed. Neither mentioned Grayson by name, but that didn't stop ESPN from running the tripping incidents. What a sorry network. GoDuke!

[OZ]

Today he is calling the team punishment "almost comical". Coming from someone with Seth's overwhelming success record as coach, especially as compared with K's, this is almost laughable, but it isn't funny. Maybe I've lost my sense of humor lately.


Seth has a major burr up his rear about Duke and K; and it just can't seem to let it pass (pun intended).