This Week in the ACC: 1/16-1/22

[pfrduke]

Things are more evenly distributed in the conference standings this week. Seven teams are above .500, seven teams below, and Miami hits the middle right on the nose. In terms of the teams in each group, there are only a few surprises based on how the early season went - Georgia Tech and Syracuse at 3-2; Duke at 2-3 and Clemson and NC State at 1-4. I thought the Tigers and Wolf Pack had very strong shots at being tournament teams but they've left themselves with a lot of work to do. Notre Dame has its toughest test of the conference season so far this week - by this time next week I suspect it will no longer be clear of the field and instead we'll have a multi-team tie for the lead at 1 loss.

Monday is
[6]North Carolina (4-1) hosts [50]Syracuse (3-2) (7:00, ESPN)

Tuesday
[73]NC State (1-4) hosts [62]Pittsburgh (1-4) (7:00, ESPNU)

Wednesday
[16]Florida State (4-1) hosts [22]Notre Dame (5-0) (7:00, ACCN)
[167]Boston College (2-3) hosts [5]Virginia (3-2) (8:00, ACCN)
[41]Wake Forest (1-4) hosts [31]Miami (2-2) (8:00, ACCN)
[45]Virginia Tech (2-3) hosts [112]Georgia Tech (3-2) (9:00, ACCN)

Thursday
[10]Louisville (3-2) hosts [28]Clemson (1-4) (9:00, ESPN)

Friday is dark

Saturday
[167]Boston College (2-3) hosts [6]North Carolina (4-1) (12:00, ACCN)
[22]Notre Dame (5-0) hosts [50]Syracuse (3-2) (12:00, ESPN)
[16]Florida State (4-1) hosts [10]Louisville (3-2) (2:00, ESPN)
[73]NC State (1-4) hosts [41]Wake Forest (1-4) (2:00, ACCN)
[5]Virginia (3-2) hosts [112]Georgia Tech (3-2) (2:00, ACCN)
[11]Duke (2-3) hosts [31]Miami (2-2) (8:15, ESPN)

Sunday
[28]Clemson (1-4) hosts [45]Virginia Tech (2-3) (6:30, ESPNU)

[Olympic Fan]

Great job as always, but I notice you include the Pomeroy rank for each team. At this point in the season, it's worth looking at the RPI -- the NCAA is considering a change, but as of the moment, that's the single most important metric the committee looks at:

As of Monday afternoon, the ACC teams rank this way:
7. Louisville
10. UNC
11. Florida State
15. Duke
16. Virginia
17. Notre Dame
26. Wake Forest
36. Pitt
44. Clemson
48. NC State
51. Virginia Tech
65. Miami
90. Georgia Tech
128. Syracuse
170. Boston College

It's early and a lot can still change, but as of now, just six ACC teams seem to be on track to locking up a bid without breaking a sweat. Amazing that Wake and Pitt -- two teams going down the tubes -- boast solid RPIs, while Virginia Tech and Miami -- two teams building solid resumes -- need to elevate their RPIs at the moment.

[CDu]

Great job as always, but I notice you include the Pomeroy rank for each team. At this point in the season, it's worth looking at the RPI -- the NCAA is considering a change, but as of the moment, that's the single most important metric the committee looks at:

Depends on what one is using the numbers for. If you are using it to measure how good the teams playing are, then I would argue that Pomeroy's data are way more useful than RPI.

[arnie]

Great job as always, but I notice you include the Pomeroy rank for each team. At this point in the season, it's worth looking at the RPI -- the NCAA is considering a change, but as of the moment, that's the single most important metric the committee looks at:

As of Monday afternoon, the ACC teams rank this way:
7. Louisville
10. UNC
11. Florida State
15. Duke
16. Virginia
17. Notre Dame
26. Wake Forest
36. Pitt
44. Clemson
48. NC State
51. Virginia Tech
65. Miami
90. Georgia Tech
128. Syracuse
170. Boston College

It's early and a lot can still change, but as of now, just six ACC teams seem to be on track to locking up a bid without breaking a sweat. Amazing that Wake and Pitt -- two teams going down the tubes -- boast solid RPIs, while Virginia Tech and Miami -- two teams building solid resumes -- need to elevate their RPIs at the moment.
Umm - VPI has one high quality win (unfortunately) and a horrific loss to State. I doubt they make the tourney this year.

[Olympic Fan]

Umm - VPI has one high quality win (unfortunately) and a horrific loss to State. I doubt they make the tourney this year.

Virginia Tech has more top 50 wins (3) than Duke (2). And a road loss to a top 50 team is hardly "horrific".

While they are not in a great position at the moment, wa-a-ay too premature to assume they can't or won't get in. You know they just went through a period when they had some major physical issues (both Seth Allen each missed a game and were sub-par in two more games). Since regaining full strength, VPI has fairly easily handled Syracuse and lost a close hard-fought game to Notre Dame.

I understand that they still have a lot of work to do, but they are pretty much in position that if they match last year's 10-8 ACC finish they will be a strong NCAA candidate. GWIW, they were 5-8 in the ACC last year before Chris Clarke returned from injury and sparked a six-game ACC win streak.

[Olympic Fan]

Don't think it deserves a separate thread, but Roy Williams (temporarily) got to 800 wins tonight.

I look forward to him getting to 800 again in five or six years.

PS I wonder if any coach has ever hit the 800 mark and still had less wins than the man he beat in the milestone game?

PS In other ACC news, did you guys see that Louisville PF Quentin Snyder will miss 2-3 weeks with a hip flexor that he suffered against Duke.

[gofurman]

Don't think it deserves a separate thread, but Roy Williams (temporarily) got to 800 wins tonight.

I look forward to him getting to 800 again in five or six years.

PS I wonder if any coach has ever hit the 800 mark and still had less wins than the man he beat in the milestone game?

PS In other ACC news, did you guys see that Louisville PF Quentin Snyder will miss 2-3 weeks with a hip flexor that he suffered against Duke.

I saw him get hurt vs us. Was hoping he was out the rest of the game. So... He finishes vs Us and helps them win but now the next few weeks other opponents get Louisville without him. Drats. Or I don't know. Maybe that helps us as maybe they lose several. Such a deep team but he's their top assist guy and number two scorer. That's a loss. I was just hoping he would stay out vs us. Heck, I head they had guys in precautionary concussion helmets the day before they played us. But they all played. I don't wish ill will but I wouldn't mind if a few opponents missed a guy or three with a minor ankle sprain right now.

[Spanarkel]

I saw him get hurt vs us. Was hoping he was out the rest of the game. So... He finishes vs Us and helps them win but now the next few weeks other opponents get Louisville without him. Drats. Or I don't know. Maybe that helps us as maybe they lose several. Such a deep team but he's their top assist guy and number two scorer. That's a loss. I was just hoping he would stay out vs us. Heck, I head they had guys in precautionary concussion helmets the day before they played us. But they all played. I don't wish ill will but I wouldn't mind if a few opponents missed a guy or three with a minor ankle sprain right now.

Was wondering just how UL's Donovan Mitchell sprained his ankle in the Duke game, went/was taken to the locker room and still managed to play 36 minutes? That was like NASCAR pit stop fast(maybe there was a training table in the hallway just out of view of the cameras).

[Olympic Fan]

NC State stopped their slide with a homecourt victory over Pitt Tuesday night -- not without flirting with a monumental choke job.

Up 5 with seven seconds left, Dennis Smith committed a bonehead foul near midcourt, stopping the clock and giving Pitt a chance to make it a one possession game with 6.6 seconds left. Pitt made the two free throws, then NC State threw the inbounds pass away. Pitt had chance tie with a 3, but Cameron Johnson, who had hit 5-of-10 3-pointers in the game, missed a wide open look and State held on.

Pitt now dead last in the ACC at 1-5.

[jhmoss1812]

NC State stopped their slide with a homecourt victory over Pitt Tuesday night -- not without flirting with a monumental choke job.

Up 5 with seven seconds left, Dennis Smith committed a bonehead foul near midcourt, stopping the clock and giving Pitt a chance to make it a one possession game with 6.6 seconds left. Pitt made the two free throws, then NC State threw the inbounds pass away. Pitt had chance tie with a 3, but Cameron Johnson, who had hit 5-of-10 3-pointers in the game, missed a wide open look and State held on.

Pitt now dead last in the ACC at 1-5.

Ugh I can't believe we are their one win. Really frustrates the hell out of me.

[jv001]

NC State stopped their slide with a homecourt victory over Pitt Tuesday night -- not without flirting with a monumental choke job.

Up 5 with seven seconds left, Dennis Smith committed a bonehead foul near midcourt, stopping the clock and giving Pitt a chance to make it a one possession game with 6.6 seconds left. Pitt made the two free throws, then NC State threw the inbounds pass away. Pitt had chance tie with a 3, but Cameron Johnson, who had hit 5-of-10 3-pointers in the game, missed a wide open look and State held on.

Pitt now dead last in the ACC at 1-5.

I think Dennis Smith, Jr. was the player that threw away the ball. I hope he plays like that against us. GoDuke!

[Olympic Fan]

It's been an interesting week for coaching milestones in the ACC.

Roy Williams just got to 800 wins .(at least until the NCAA lowers the boom) and Miami's Jim Larranaga just got to 600 wins. N.C. State's Mark Gottfried now needs one win for 400. VPI's Buzz Williams needs three for 200 ...

But have you looked at the milestones that Jim Boeheim is approaching?

Officially, he has 895 wins, so he is very close to getting to 900 (for the second time)

But he had 101 wins vacated, so in reality, he has 996 wins – so he’s very close to 1,000

None of that includes the four games that Syracuse won last year when Boeheim was suspended. Count those and you get to 899/1,000!

Also, note that Mike Brey, Kevin Stallings and Leonard Hamilton should all get to 500 wins by midseason next year ... and Rick Pitino should get to 800 by the end of the 2018 season.

PS There was a lot of speculation about Boeheim's chances of catching K before he had 101 wins vacated. As it now stands, he's more than six seasons behind K. But if you do count all the games he actually won, he's 62 wins behind K -- more than two seasons (unless they were two GREAT seasons back to back. Boeheim is two years older than K, so his chances of unofficially catching K are unlikely.

[Bob Green]

Tuned in to the Notre Dame at FSU game toward the end of the 1st half just in time to see Mike Brey T'd up. My sound was off so I didn't hear any commentary but it was easy to see Brey's lips dropping F Bombs at the refs.

[devildeac]

Tuned in to the Notre Dame at FSU game toward the end of the 1st half just in time to see Mike Brey T'd up. My sound was off so I didn't hear any commentary but it was easy to see Brey's lips dropping F Bombs at the refs.

"When I find myself in times of trouble
Mother Mary comes to me
Speaking words of wisdom..."

[howardlander]

Tuned in to the Notre Dame at FSU game toward the end of the 1st half just in time to see Mike Brey T'd up. My sound was off so I didn't hear any commentary but it was easy to see Brey's lips dropping F Bombs at the refs.

Speaking of Notre Dame, did they just shoot 15 for 19 from 3 and lose? Amazing.

Howard

[CDu]

Speaking of Notre Dame, did they just shoot 15 for 19 from 3 and lose? Amazing.

Howard

Not even close... they shot 15-21 and lost ;)

[Olympic Fan]

Ugh I can't believe we are their one win. Really frustrates the hell out of me.

I'd be careful using the word "we" on this board to describe anybody other than Duke.

Duke has not lost to Pitt.

[jhmoss1812]

I'd be careful using the word "we" on this board to describe anybody other than Duke.

Duke has not lost to Pitt.

Fair enough.

[Papa John]

But have you looked at the milestones that Jim Boeheim is approaching?

Officially, he has 895 wins, so he is very close to getting to 900 (for the second time)

But he had 101 wins vacated, so in reality, he has 996 wins – so he’s very close to 1,000.

Actually, in reality he has 895 wins. The whole point of vacating wins when you use ineligible players is to acknowledge the reality that those wins were unfairly acquired due to the presences of said ineligible players.

Which brings us to Roy... Below you stated you'd look forward to him reaching 800 wins again in 5 or 6 years... If the NCAA truly drops the hammer, it will likely take Roy about 10 years to recover the 200+ wins that will be vacated...

[OldPhiKap]

Which brings us to Roy... Below you stated you'd look forward to him reaching 800 wins again in 5 or 6 years... If the NCAA truly drops the hammer, it will likely take Roy about 10 years to recover the 200+ wins that will be vacated...

HOF*

[sagegrouse]

Actually, in reality he has 895 wins. The whole point of vacating wins when you use ineligible players is to acknowledge the reality that those wins were unfairly acquired due to the presences of said ineligible players.

Which brings us to Roy... Below you stated you'd look forward to him reaching 800 wins again in 5 or 6 years... If the NCAA truly drops the hammer, it will likely take Roy about 10 years to recover the 200+ wins that will be vacated...

While I agree with your statements, please remember that Joe Paterno's lost wins were restored by the NCAA in a later appeal. I suppose something similar could happen to Boeheim.

Per Wikipedia (yes, I contribute a few bucks):


At the time of his death, Paterno had accumulated a record of 409 wins, 136 losses, and 3 ties. However, on July 23, 2012, NCAA rulings officially vacated 111 of Paterno's wins based on the findings of the Freeh report regarding his involvement in the Penn State sex abuse scandal. All wins dating back to 1998 were vacated, the year Paterno was first informed of Sandusky's suspected child abuse. Based on the criteria used by the NCAA, Paterno no longer held the record for most victories by an NCAA Division I football coach. Former Florida State coach Bobby Bowden held the NCAA major college record for wins at 377, while for NCAA Division I schools, Grambling State University coach Eddie Robinson's 408 victories stood as the official record. The 111 wins were restored on January 16, 2015 as a part of a settlement between the NCAA and Penn State, once again making him the most victorious coach in FBS NCAA football history.

[OldPhiKap]

While I agree with your statements, please remember that Joe Paterno's lost wins were restored by the NCAA in a later appeal. I suppose something similar could happen to Boeheim.

Per Wikipedia (yes, I contribute a few bucks):

The NCAA never gave back any of Bowden's though AFAIK.

I agree that with the NCAA, anything is possible. It seems to me that there is likely a difference though between vacating wins because of ineligible players competing an a contest, and vacating wins for non-competitive reasons (even if more socially significant).

[Olympic Fan]

Syracuse appealed the decision to vacate (not forfeit -- there is a difference) Boeheim's 101 wins. A year after the case was settled, the school's lawyers were trying to get the 101 wins back on his record. While that was going on, the school continued to list those wins on Boeheim's records. But the final appeal was denied last summer and both the Syracuse book and the ACC book now list the revised total.

I think it is unlikely that Boeheim's wins are restored at this point.

On the other hand, the Syracuse newspaper is running a daily countdown to 1,000* wins (the * connects to a small disclaimer that he officially has just 895 wins).

I told that the school itself is planning no acknowledgement of either the unofficial 1,000th win or the second official 900th win.

[Bob Green]

I'm ready for a day and night of ACC hoops. Can BC pull off the upset? I doubt it but I'm watching just in case.

[BandAlum83]

Syracuse appealed the decision to vacate (not forfeit -- there is a difference) Boeheim's 101 wins. A year after the case was settled, the school's lawyers were trying to get the 101 wins back on his record. While that was going on, the school continued to list those wins on Boeheim's records. But the final appeal was denied last summer and both the Syracuse book and the ACC book now list the revised total.

I think it is unlikely that Boeheim's wins are restored at this point.

On the other hand, the Syracuse newspaper is running a daily countdown to 1,000* wins (the * connects to a small disclaimer that he officially has just 895 wins).

I told that the school itself is planning no acknowledgement of either the unofficial 1,000th win or the second official 900th win.

Someone needs to tell ESPN. I recall an in-game graphic during the UNC game that gave Roy 800 wins. It was a graphic of all time wins leaders. They showed Boeheim with 996 wins. No asterisk.

[Olympic Fan]

Someone needs to tell ESPN. I recall an in-game graphic during the UNC game that gave Roy 800 wins. It was a graphic of all time wins leaders. They showed Boeheim with 996 wins. No asterisk.

Boeheim still at 895 (or 996) after the Orange lose at Notre Dame.

Now tied with UNC, which dodged an upset bullet at BC, at the top of the ACC ... FSU can join them -- the 'Noles are off to a great start at home against Louisville.

[devildeac]

BC outscored at the FT line by 24-6. I keep forgetting who gets all the calls :mad: .

[kmspeaks]

BC outscored at the FT line by 24-6. I keep forgetting who gets all the calls :mad: .

Was a graphic showing the disparity displayed repeatedly during the game? You can bet it would have for a different shade of blue.

[devildeac]

Was a graphic showing the disparity displayed repeatedly during the game? You can bet it would have for a different shade of blue.

I didn't watch the game but I agree with your thoughts/sentiments.

[brickey]

BC outscored at the FT line by 24-6. I keep forgetting who gets all the calls :mad: .

BC got jjobbed on several late calls and no-calls. The BC faithful' booing was quickly drowned out by that obnoxious left-side TARR, right-side HEEELS chant. I wasn't surprised that those aHoles had home court advantage in Atlanta, but in Boston, considering the 20-year scandal? Then again, NE-area fans must now be thoroughly inured to cheating.

[DukieInBrasil]

I really feel for State fans these days. Some decent talent returns, highly touted incoming talent, generated all these expectations...and they just suck. They cannot defend anything to save their lives. They can score alright but that's only half the game.

[Olympic Fan]

I really feel for State fans these days. Some decent talent returns, highly touted incoming talent, generated all these expectations...and they just suck. They cannot defend anything to save their lives. They can score alright but that's only half the game.

But they lost this one at the FT line ... I'm not a fan of the NC State officiating paranoia, but they were the victim of at lest three questionable calls late and one blatantly wrong call by Jamie Luckie in the final seconds (down 3 with under 10 seconds left, Terry Henderson who had just hit back-to-back 3s, steals an inbounds pass ... but Luckie rules him out -- when the replay showed that he was inbounds all the way).

Announcers said first ACC road win for Wake in three years. Just did a quick check -- they lost at BC in 2015 and didn't play them in Boston last year, so that might be right.

Nice win for FSU .... they opened up 14-0 on Louisville, but the Cards fought back and got it to one point late, but could never get over the hump,

As expected, Virginia handled Georgia Tech in C'ville ...

[devildeac]

NCSU fans have a right to be steamed about this un-"luckie" call:

https://twitter.com/joeovies

(scroll down)

[Doria]

NCSU fans have a right to be steamed about this un-"luckie" call:

https://twitter.com/joeovies

(scroll down)

There were a number of pretty dubious calls (at least three) in the last two minutes, but yes, that was easily the most egregiously terrible one.

[Olympic Fan]

Moving on ... one game today -- VPI (3-3) at Clemson (1-5)

I was looking at the standings. Duke moved up from a three-way tie for ninth to a two-way tie (with VPI) for sixth. Still a long way to go, but the goal (beyond the slim chance for a regular season title) is to finish in the top four and earn the ACC Tournament double bye. The to of the standings

Notre Dame 6-1
FSU 6-1
UNC 6-1
Virginia 5-2
Louisville 4-3
Duke 3-3
VPI 3-3

But there is another way of looking at it. I also like to track home/road results. Winning on the road is a +1 ... losing at home is a -1. Losing on the road or winning at home is the expected outcome, so is 0.

Using that method, I get:

Notre Dame +3
Virginia +2
UNC +2
FSU +1
Georgia Tech +1
Miami +1
Duke 0
Louisville 0
Syracuse 0
VPI -1
Wake Forest -1
Clemson -1
N.C. State -2
Pitt -2
Boston College -2

Makes Clemson look a little better -- they have been the victim of a really tough schedule, so far. But it also shows how well Notre Dame has been playing.

[Troublemaker]

Moving on ... one game today -- VPI (3-3) at Clemson (1-5)

Final score -- VaTech 82, Clemson 81

Huge loss by Clemson. They haven't played all that poorly during conference season (except for the Louisville blowout) but they're now 1-6 because of all the close losses. This season is the reverse of their 2016 season when they did enough in-conference to make the tourney but had a horrible non-conference. I wonder if Brownell can survive if he doesn't make the NCAAT this season.

[gofurman]

Final score -- VaTech 82, Clemson 81

Huge loss by Clemson. They haven't played all that poorly during conference season (except for the Louisville blowout) but they're now 1-6 because of all the close losses. This season is the reverse of their 2016 season when they did enough in-conference to make the tourney but had a horrible non-conference. I wonder if Brownell can survive if he doesn't make the NCAAT this season.

Clemson can't buy a W. Clemson shot lights out from threee only to have poor ft defense. Vpi went 16-17 ft