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View Full Version : Luke as point guard?



DtrainBuckshot
01-14-2017, 02:45 PM
I know he is having a stellar year in the spot he is in, but he seems to have all the skills to run the point a little better than Grayson. He plays more in control and does not get sped up. Grayson certainly has the experience in the 2 spot. Neither are traditional PGs, but I would like to see him get a shot at facilitating while also staying aggressive offensively. Scheyer was able to make the switch and still get his shots. Any thoughts?

AFL
01-14-2017, 02:54 PM
I know he is having a stellar year in the spot he is in, but he seems to have all the skills to run the point a little better than Grayson. He plays more in control and does not get sped up. Grayson certainly has the experience in the 2 spot. Neither are traditional PGs, but I would like to see him get a shot at facilitating while also staying aggressive offensively. Scheyer was able to make the switch and still get his shots. Any thoughts?

I would be willing for us to try almost anything at this point.

mattman91
01-14-2017, 03:04 PM
Sure.

Isolate him on every play and just let him be our entire offense. Have Grayson and Matt sit in the corners and have the two others just get out of the I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.ing way.

DtrainBuckshot
01-14-2017, 04:33 PM
Luke does a nice job passing in tight spaces. Also great on drives. For some reason it seems that every game a few of Grayson's passes get bobbled. Not sure if it's all Grayson's fault. If Luke has the same feel/touch with his passes that he does with his shot, I think some of the Grayson turnovers turn into assists for Luke.

DukieInBrasil
01-14-2017, 04:49 PM
Luke does a nice job passing in tight spaces. Also great on drives. For some reason it seems that every game a few of Grayson's passes get bobbled. Not sure if it's all Grayson's fault. If Luke has the same feel/touch with his passes that he does with his shot, I think some of the Grayson turnovers turn into assists for Luke.

Luke is great at finding room for his shot in tight places, and has made some really nifty passes. I don't see him getting enough separation from his defender for more assists to open up for him. Perhaps b/c he plays at a faster pace, the ball comes off of Grayson's hand faster and makes it more difficult for the bigs to hold on. Grayson's drive and dish to the wing has been really good though.

Saratoga2
01-14-2017, 07:46 PM
Luke does a nice job passing in tight spaces. Also great on drives. For some reason it seems that every game a few of Grayson's passes get bobbled. Not sure if it's all Grayson's fault. If Luke has the same feel/touch with his passes that he does with his shot, I think some of the Grayson turnovers turn into assists for Luke.

Why take the most reliable scorer and give him the added role of bringing the ball up and making plays. I think Grayson is the right guy and Frank is in the process of learning and is an acceptable backup to Grayson.

DtrainBuckshot
01-14-2017, 07:55 PM
Florida state, Louisville

jv001
01-14-2017, 09:11 PM
Florida state, Louisville

Yeh, two of the best defensive teams in the country. What about them? Oh, Grayson had 9 rebounds today, let's make him our center or power forward. Luke is a #2 guard and Grayson is the best player we have at running the point. Maybe Frank will improve and be a serviceable back up point guard. Oh, by the way, I was kidding about Grayson being our center. He would never get the opening tip. :cool: GoDuke!

kmspeaks
01-14-2017, 09:32 PM
Yeh, two of the best defensive teams in the country. What about them? Oh, Grayson had 9 rebounds today, let's make him our center or power forward. Luke is a #2 guard and Grayson is the best player we have at running the point. Maybe Frank will improve and be a serviceable back up point guard. Oh, by the way, I was kidding about Grayson being our center. He would never get the opening tip. :cool: GoDuke!

I thought there was one season where somebody discovered that when we lost the opening tip we won the game. Maybe Grayson at center is the answer!!

coot
01-14-2017, 10:01 PM
I know he is having a stellar year in the spot he is in, but he seems to have all the skills to run the point a little better than Grayson. He plays more in control and does not get sped up. Grayson certainly has the experience in the 2 spot. Neither are traditional PGs, but I would like to see him get a shot at facilitating while also staying aggressive offensively. Scheyer was able to make the switch and still get his shots. Any thoughts?

Luke at point guard is not a bad idea. However, we have the right guy at point. Grayson was the silver lining in today's loss. He was really strong, tough, and is getting better at running the point guard spot. Louisville presents a lot of problems for all point guards, which caused Grayson to have a decent amount of turnovers.

The main thing that the team needs is not related to guard play at all; the team need the Bigs to help out in all around ways (i.e. defense, offense). We have a lot of depth with Jefferson, Bolden, Giles, Jeter so on and so forth. The real problem is that Amile is the best player at 6 ft 8 in. Amile is such an awesome Duke player and really helps the team win. The team needs desperately for the other bigs to get going. The guards are ready.

mgtr
01-14-2017, 10:23 PM
Luke at point might work, but Grayson at point does work. Luke just has to make himself available for a pass from
Grayson, and we are in business. Luke needs to concentrate on making shots., at which he excels.

JNort
01-14-2017, 11:04 PM
Why take the most reliable scorer and give him the added role of bringing the ball up and making plays. I think Grayson is the right guy and Frank is in the process of learning and is an acceptable backup to Grayson.
Well last year Grayson was the most reliable scorer. So why not put him back in that role and see how well Luke does distributing the ball. It seems to me he is more suited for it. He has a bigger skill set when he gets into the paint which makes him more versatile.

Grayson when he drives is gonna either A) gonna drive all the way to the rim and kick it or B) he is gonna try for the layup. He also is only a slasher with maybe one crossover in his arsenal ala Gerald Henderson.

Luke has more set up moves to get into the paint and is also more willing to pull up for midrange jump shots. He is also a little bigger which helps him finish and or rebound.

mk76
01-15-2017, 09:30 AM
Yeh, two of the best defensive teams in the country. What about them? Oh, Grayson had 9 rebounds today, let's make him our center or power forward. Luke is a #2 guard and Grayson is the best player we have at running the point. Maybe Frank will improve and be a serviceable back up point guard. Oh, by the way, I was kidding about Grayson being our center. He would never get the opening tip. :cool: GoDuke!

Neither did Okafor until the Championship game

WVDUKEFAN
01-15-2017, 06:04 PM
No. We need him to score. He's the best shooter we have.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
01-15-2017, 06:27 PM
Yeh, two of the best defensive teams in the country. What about them? Oh, Grayson had 9 rebounds today, let's make him our center or power forward. Luke is a #2 guard and Grayson is the best player we have at running the point. Maybe Frank will improve and be a serviceable back up point guard. Oh, by the way, I was kidding about Grayson being our center. He would never get the opening tip. :cool: GoDuke!

Grayson would be crackerjack at procuring the opening trip.

Seriously though, Luke's been the most consistent part of our offense. I see no reason to add responsibilities that might compromise that.

DUKIE V(A)
01-15-2017, 10:00 PM
Grayson at the point but get Luke the ball more often. Good things happen when those two have the ball.

DtrainBuckshot
01-15-2017, 10:27 PM
Grayson would be crackerjack at procuring the opening trip.

Seriously though, Luke's been the most consistent part of our offense. I see no reason to add responsibilities that might compromise that.

You could have said the same thing about Grayson at the beginning of year.

Also, fwiw, Scheyer was pretty consistent in his role before his switch to PG.

http://www.wralsportsfan.com/duke/story/4610703/

I trust Luke could handle having the ball in his hands more, would likely get to the line more, and would set up some of our other key players just as well( if not better) than Grayson.

I also wonder how well Grayson is handling the constant booing from opposing crowds. Dude is gonna hear it for obvious reasons, but it's almost putting more of a spotlight on him to get booed just bringing the ball up the court every possession.

I am certainly not a coach and trust in K and the staff, but think that this about the time of year that we get the reactive shake up. I love Luke and Grayson, but think Grayson is trying to be something he is not. Also think Luke would get his buckets if you played him at any position just because he is a gifted scorer.

wilko
01-16-2017, 10:11 AM
from my observation -
Allen starts out OK as PG. He is working his tail off to bring the ball up the floor and get an angle of step by his man - that results in a reckless pass (which he completes a fair amount.. the look of it is nerve wracking to me) or TO. BUT he is also being ridden and bumped and checked perhaps excessively. He gets easily frustrated at that or tired or both and goes away from it. And then we are stuck doing ISO's by Freshmen instead of playing crisp ball with lots of movement.

I think putting Kennard in the PG role will expose his lack of speed on Defense. I think better to have him coming off ball and use his height from midrange to Post on D. Hes a good rebounder and a opportunistic defender.

Jackson has the speed but not the insticnts to be PG.
He can be WIDE OPEN with the throttle in transiton but not especially a great passer from what I have seen. He can be decent in spots but not for the duration.

if Jones could get some help on D I'd say make him PG. But you cant have everything

kmspeaks
01-16-2017, 12:07 PM
I think putting Kennard in the PG role will expose his lack of speed on Defense. I think better to have him coming off ball and use his height from midrange to Post on D. Hes a good rebounder and a opportunistic defender.

if Jones could get some help on D I'd say make him PG. But you cant have everything

I'm confused, are you saying you don't want Luke or Matt playing point on offense because you're afraid they can't guard point guards on defense?

wilko
01-16-2017, 01:25 PM
I'm confused, are you saying you don't want Luke or Matt playing point on offense because you're afraid they can't guard point guards on defense?

Matts the only one playing D at times. Do want him guarding or distributing? Make a choice. Sadly I dont think you get both.
Kinda the same with Luke..
I think what he gives on O genarally is more than what he can give as the primary distributer. I think its a bad trade to take advantage of his skills.

zat help clarify?

DtrainBuckshot
01-24-2017, 12:01 AM
Bump this now...Luke made some nice passes tonight in the loss. Others saying Luke and grayson can't be on the floor at the same time. I say maybe if Luke is running for the point. Frank can back him up.

uh_no
01-24-2017, 12:12 AM
Bump this now...Luke made some nice passes tonight in the loss. Others saying Luke and grayson can't be on the floor at the same time. I say maybe if Luke is running for the point. Frank can back him up.

I say we need to find a way to keep a guy who scored 20 points in 27 minutes on the floor for more than 27 minutes. If that means he brings the ball up sometimes, so be it. I think he is capable.

dukefan_828
01-24-2017, 07:44 AM
I say we need to find a way to keep a guy who scored 20 points in 27 minutes on the floor for more than 27 minutes. If that means he brings the ball up sometimes, so be it. I think he is capable.

Was literally dismayed when i seen luke not start both halfs.. i mean why is the guy whose been the only Guarantee all year long for this team being punished for one bad half, that doesnt even completely fall on his shoulders? Was an excellent move by [redacted text] to try a diff lineup in the 2nd half of that miami game (although i would have started luke instead of Frank) to get the emotions going. I mentioned to my buddy at the start of last nights game if Duke sticks with the starting 5 of Frank Matt JT AJ MB a really good team is going to end up blowing us out in the first 5-6 min were we cant recover, didnt think State was one of those teams, but start of the second half said other wise. I understand Luke may not be the best defender but i think he's earned his spot more than anybody and the guy had no problem playing pretty my 35+ min first 10-12 games of the season, this duke team is at it's best when Luke is on the floor as much as possible!!

Hate to be that guy and cant pin all the blame on him but have been questionable of Capel ever since duke was getting dominated on lobs & boards @FSU and he decides to go to a 6'5 and under lineup at which point the game got completely out of control..:rolleyes::rolleyes::eek:

I like Amile, and new defensive anchor or atleast this team best version of it in Marques down low. Gotta think to sit Tatum in favor of the savy vet hot shooting MJ. G or Luke at point. Could argue for Frank to replace G but im not a big fan of it cant forget last year or 15 NCAA tourney Grayson is special off shooting night due to fingers being taped, although i defiantly find myself cheering for him to pass more than shoot on the perimeter these days!! Shot just has not been there this year, hopefully he finds his stroke when it really matters!!!

Giles looked good in limited minutes but defensively is just such a liability, still would like 20 20 split with him and MB, Giles off the bench.

fuse
01-24-2017, 08:25 AM
Maybe not the right thread for my thoughts, but here goes.
There was a game where we platooned Grayson and Luke with Frank and Matt as the pair coming in for them.

There was a point in the season where Grayson seemed to have radar for where Luke was and able to get him the ball, and the Frank/Matt combo also seemed to work well/be complementary.

The one wrinkle is I'm not sure if we can afford to have Matt on the bench for any length of time.

Saratoga2
01-24-2017, 09:31 AM
Why take the most reliable scorer and give him the added role of bringing the ball up and making plays. I think Grayson is the right guy and Frank is in the process of learning and is an acceptable backup to Grayson.

Think Jon Scheyer

jv001
01-24-2017, 10:05 AM
Think Jon Scheyer

Looks like both of us have changed our minds. :cool: GoDuke!

Lar77
01-24-2017, 11:14 AM
Personally, I think Grayson can out jump most centers. But on a more serious note. Grayson is still learning the PG role (which he has not had more than a few games to do and has his left hand taped up). Grayson is not a pure PG, but can handle the ball and can pass out when he draws defenses. His passes are catching guys unaware, and that has not been good. But that is a matter of practice.

I've always liked Luke and his court sense, but he has not looked comfortable as a point guard in the few times he has had that role. I like him better as a guy who can knock down a jumper or drive into a crowd and get the "and one"

Frank, unfortunately, telegraphs a lot. He's getting better, but is not ready yet.

I've said it elsewhere. These guys just have to practice as a full team. Hopefully, before March.

kidA
01-25-2017, 04:24 PM
IMO, moving Kennard to the point would help immensely. Note I didn't say "solve" the problems the team has, but... I think Luke is better at getting open from the point than Grayson or MJones (I like FJ at point but he is still young), meaning when he's surveying the court and dribbling, and he is a great passer. Doing so would leave Grayson available to move w/o the ball and do what he does: crazy sh*ts (use an "o") from anywhere at any time that often go in the hoop when he's not distracted by pointing. Likewise Jones: he will be able to spot up for 3s and/or cuts'n'drives much more effectively if not focused on point guard duties, and it would save his energy for the D we inexplicably lack (consistently at least) this season.

What frustrates me (and I know you, too) about this team is how one day it can be literally good enough to crush any team in the country, and the next game bad enough to be crushed by any team in the country, with no apparent reason other than the inconsistent play (effort?) of youth --and there should be enough experience to overcome the youth. Outscoring anyone 31-4 is championship level play, and Miami is no slouch. Where is that team????!!!

PAG T'87

DtrainBuckshot
02-04-2017, 11:29 PM
So the more I watch him the more I think Luke is a poor man's Steph Curry. Not dirt poor but poor. Crafty in the lane with a fairly quick release

Emerrick
02-05-2017, 05:24 PM
So the more I watch him the more I think Luke is a poor man's Steph Curry. Not dirt poor but poor. Crafty in the lane with a fairly quick release
I don't watch pro basketball anymore, however, Kennard reminds me more of a John Stockton than Steph Curry.

DukieInBrasil
02-05-2017, 05:33 PM
I don't watch pro basketball anymore, however, Kennard reminds me more of a John Stockton than Steph Curry.

no way, Stockton was a magical passer and had an amazing handle. Luke is a fine and willing passer but his handle is average. Stockton was a fine scorer but not nearly as crafty as Luke (withe realization that the NBA game is different from the NCAA game). I'm not trying to say he reminds me of Curry, but his game is more like Curry's than Stockton.

niveklaen
02-05-2017, 05:56 PM
no way, Stockton was a magical passer and had an amazing handle. Luke is a fine and willing passer but his handle is average. Stockton was a fine scorer but not nearly as crafty as Luke (withe realization that the NBA game is different from the NCAA game). I'm not trying to say he reminds me of Curry, but his game is more like Curry's than Stockton.

Both Stockton and Curry are plus defenders. Luke is more similar to Chris Jackson aka mamoud Abdul raluf - I have no idea how his Muslim name was spelled...

JNort
02-06-2017, 11:49 AM
So the more I watch him the more I think Luke is a poor man's Steph Curry. Not dirt poor but poor. Crafty in the lane with a fairly quick release


I don't watch pro basketball anymore, however, Kennard reminds me more of a John Stockton than Steph Curry.


no way, Stockton was a magical passer and had an amazing handle. Luke is a fine and willing passer but his handle is average. Stockton was a fine scorer but not nearly as crafty as Luke (withe realization that the NBA game is different from the NCAA game). I'm not trying to say he reminds me of Curry, but his game is more like Curry's than Stockton.


Both Stockton and Curry are plus defenders. Luke is more similar to Chris Jackson aka mamoud Abdul raluf - I have no idea how his Muslim name was spelled...

I've thought for a while now that Luke is like Kevin Martin. Quick release but low, great shooter from all over the floor, crafty ball handler but lacks the athleticism to truly take advantage of his great skill set.

Grayson I could see projecting as a Manu Ginobli type guy. That may be his ceiling which is a wonderful ceiling but I don't know that he will reach that.
Role player, 3 point shooter, slasher, can dunk well when given the opening and is really good at tough layups and generally relies on the eurostep

luvdahops
02-06-2017, 01:08 PM
I've thought for a while now that Luke is like Kevin Martin. Quick release but low, great shooter from all over the floor, crafty ball handler but lacks the athleticism to truly take advantage of his great skill set.

Grayson I could see projecting as a Manu Ginobli type guy. That may be his ceiling which is a wonderful ceiling but I don't know that he will reach that.
Role player, 3 point shooter, slasher, can dunk well when given the opening and is really good at tough layups and generally relies on the eurostep

FWIW, I heard the Grayson/Ginobili comparison from someone in the Spurs organization several months back. Not a guarantee that they would draft him late in the first round if available, but a pretty strong indication of interest.