Ball Screen Defense

[kmspeaks]

It seems that every year we have the discussion about Duke's defense and how to stop penetration. The inability of some of our guys to pick up the quick rotations and communication necessary to defend ball screens has been discussed ad nauseum so I'm not looking for a rehash of that. We've had some very informative, for me at least, discussions about icing versus hedging and different things K has done over the years but whether it's due to freedom of movement, one and done guys, or the black uniforms I think it's safe to say Duke has struggled recently with ball screen defense. So here's my question - who does it well? I'd love to look at the schedule for the week and say hmmm maybe I should watch __________'s game tonight so I can get a better idea of what our guys are trying to do and have a better understanding when I'm watching.

[UrinalCake]

Watch our 2010 team play defense. You can see replays of the tourney at NCAAVault.com. Even though Zoubek is likely the slowest player in the entire country, he became a master at hedging on the screen just enough to slow down the guard, while still getting back to his man at the exact right time. This year's team doesn't do that, our big just switches onto the guard or stays on and double teams him, leaving his own man wide open for a dunk.

Other than that you could watch teams like Virginia and Louisville who play excellent defense, but their systems are so different than ours that I'm not sure how relevant it would be.

[jv001]

It seems that every year we have the discussion about Duke's defense and how to stop penetration. The inability of some of our guys to pick up the quick rotations and communication necessary to defend ball screens has been discussed ad nauseum so I'm not looking for a rehash of that. We've had some very informative, for me at least, discussions about icing versus hedging and different things K has done over the years but whether it's due to freedom of movement, one and done guys, or the black uniforms I think it's safe to say Duke has struggled recently with ball screen defense. So here's my question - who does it well? I'd love to look at the schedule for the week and say hmmm maybe I should watch __________'s game tonight so I can get a better idea of what our guys are trying to do and have a better understanding when I'm watching.

I watched the first half of West Virginia vs. then #1 Baylor. West Virginia played the best defense I've seen in a long time. They pressed most of the first half and was able to switch on screens better than I've seen a team do this season. They accomplished this by moving very quickly to play help defense. It reminded me of the Battier years. I was impressed. GoDuke!

[CDu]

It all starts with court awareness. You have to prevent the guy from being able to go downhill. Also, you have to make it difficult for the ballhandler to accept the ball screen. That requires both the on-ball defender and the off-ball defender to work in concert. The off-ball defender has to let the on-ball defender know that a screen is coming and where it is coming from. The on-ball defender then needs to make it difficult for the screen to happen by trying to beat him to the spot. Then, once the screen is set, the off-ball defender needs to hedge will to force the ballhandler to take a route away from the basket and allow the on-ball defender a chance to recover. Then the off-ball defender has to recover hard to get back to his man and prevent a "roll" opportunity.

It's hard work, but if you're going to try to apply on-ball pressure 25 feet from the basket, it is work that has to be done.

There are other ways to combat ball screen offense:

- you can play more relaxed defense on the ball outside of 20 feet. This is what the 2010 team did. This reduces the court coverage required for your big to hedge/recover, because you can't set a screen 25 feet from the basket if the defender is only 20 feet from the basket. This approach also has limitations though. A ball screen 20 feet from the basket can mean a wide open 3 if the hedge isn't good. And you also allow the ballhandler more freedom to pass. Plus, if you play off, you allow the ballhandler the chance to get a head start on a straight-line, unscreened drive. So you still have to be very cognizant on your defense.

- you can switch all ball screens. That can help, or it can create other problems. If your bigs aren't mobile, a team with a really quick PG will torch him off the dribble. And if you switch your little onto a big, that big could then isolate the little in the post. Picture Nate Britt trying to defend Jahlil Okafor on the low block, for example.

- you can play zone. This reduces the value of the on-ball screen, as you always have somebody in help position. But zone defense has its weaknesses too. A well-orchestrated off-ball movement offense with timely passes can break down any zone. So you are trading one problem for potentially another problem. And if you don't work hard at the zone, it's easier to break down the zone (just like if you don't work hard at man-to-man, it's easy to break down man-to-man).

[jv001]

It all starts with court awareness. You have to prevent the guy from being able to go downhill. Also, you have to make it difficult for the ballhandler to accept the ball screen. That requires both the on-ball defender and the off-ball defender to work in concert. The off-ball defender has to let the on-ball defender know that a screen is coming and where it is coming from. The on-ball defender then needs to make it difficult for the screen to happen by trying to beat him to the spot. Then, once the screen is set, the off-ball defender needs to hedge will to force the ballhandler to take a route away from the basket and allow the on-ball defender a chance to recover. Then the off-ball defender has to recover hard to get back to his man and prevent a "roll" opportunity.

It's hard work, but if you're going to try to apply on-ball pressure 25 feet from the basket, it is work that has to be done.

There are other ways to combat ball screen offense:

- you can play more relaxed defense on the ball outside of 20 feet. This is what the 2010 team did. This reduces the court coverage required for your big to hedge/recover, because you can't set a screen 25 feet from the basket if the defender is only 20 feet from the basket. This approach also has limitations though. A ball screen 20 feet from the basket can mean a wide open 3 if the hedge isn't good. And you also allow the ballhandler more freedom to pass. Plus, if you play off, you allow the ballhandler the chance to get a head start on a straight-line, unscreened drive. So you still have to be very cognizant on your defense.

- you can switch all ball screens. That can help, or it can create other problems. If your bigs aren't mobile, a team with a really quick PG will torch him off the dribble. And if you switch your little onto a big, that big could then isolate the little in the post. Picture Nate Britt trying to defend Jahlil Okafor on the low block, for example.

- you can play zone. This reduces the value of the on-ball screen, as you always have somebody in help position. But zone defense has its weaknesses too. A well-orchestrated off-ball movement offense with timely passes can break down any zone. So you are trading one problem for potentially another problem. And if you don't work hard at the zone, it's easier to break down the zone (just like if you don't work hard at man-to-man, it's easy to break down man-to-man).

Great breakdown on defense, Cdu. I've seen some other negative aspects to playing zone. It seems to be harder to get defensive rebounds because it's harder to get position. I've also seen too much standing around in some zones. Any defense(man2man or zone) we use must be performed well to work. GoDuke!

[CDu]

Great breakdown on defense, Cdu. I've seen some other negative aspects to playing zone. It seems to be harder to get defensive rebounds because it's harder to get position. I've also seen too much standing around in some zones. Any defense(man2man or zone) we use must be performed well to work. GoDuke!

Yep, that's a great observation. Much like it is hard to get defensive rebounds when dribble penetration causes you to play help defense, the same is true in the zone. Basically, any time you have to leave your man or don't have a defined man to guard, it's harder to get defensive rebounds because it is harder to box out.

Zone can be effective, but like you said you have to be moving in concert. Just like you have to be moving in concert in man-to-man. If you don't practice it, you are likely going to suffer breakdowns. Whether those breakdowns are leaving open shooters or leaving open rebounders, they are going to happen.

All defenses have weaknesses. The less organized, the less focused, and the less effort applied increases the weaknesses. The weaknesses can be different with different defenses, but there are always weaknesses.

[Billy Dat]

There are other ways to combat ball screen offense....

Indeed, and therein lies the genius of coaching. Hubie Brown could famously spend hours at coaching clinics reviewing different approaches to guarding ball screens.

The one method you didn't mention is one K picked up from Thibs during Team USA, the "down" or "ice", nicely explained in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=te4svk4vm1I

There was a 2nd half possession last night where Grayson was clearly attempting to ice a screen but the big (Harry, I think) had no clue what he was doing. So, Grayson saw the screen, hedged all the way up to turn the ball handler, and the ballhandler, having turned, looked up to see absolutely no big man and just waltzed in for a lay-up. Harry was supposed to drop back and contain the ball handler, but he was way up, almost like he was going to "show and recover", a completely different approach more akin to what CDu was describing above (which is how we used to always defend ball screens).

[CDu]

Indeed, and therein lies the genius of coaching. Hubie Brown could famously spend hours at coaching clinics reviewing different approaches to guarding ball screens.

The one method you didn't mention is one K picked up from Thibs during Team USA, the "down" or "ice", nicely explained in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=te4svk4vm1I

There was a 2nd half possession last night where Grayson was clearly attempting to ice a screen but the big (Harry, I think) had no clue what he was doing. So, Grayson saw the screen, hedged all the way up to turn the ball handler, and the ballhandler, having turned, looked up to see absolutely no big man and just waltzed in for a lay-up. Harry was supposed to drop back and contain the ball handler, but he was way up, almost like he was going to "show and recover", a completely different approach more akin to what CDu was describing above (which is how we used to always defend ball screens).

Yup. Ice tends to be useful for a particular type of ball screen. But as you noted, both defenders have to know what the other is doing. And THEN you have to execute it correctly from there. Right now, we appear to have problems with communication/awareness and execution. The first is a problem probably more with the freshmen than anyone else. The latter kind of falls in a lot of folks' laps. But if the communication isn't there, it is really really hard to make up for it with better execution. Largely because it's hard to do the right thing if you don't know what "the right thing" is. Two people could be perfectly executing what they think is the right thing, but if they are executing two different game plans then it will likely be a disaster (like the example you mention above).

[Troublemaker]

It seems that every year we have the discussion about Duke's defense and how to stop penetration. The inability of some of our guys to pick up the quick rotations and communication necessary to defend ball screens has been discussed ad nauseum so I'm not looking for a rehash of that. We've had some very informative, for me at least, discussions about icing versus hedging and different things K has done over the years but whether it's due to freedom of movement, one and done guys, or the black uniforms I think it's safe to say Duke has struggled recently with ball screen defense. So here's my question - who does it well? I'd love to look at the schedule for the week and say hmmm maybe I should watch __________'s game tonight so I can get a better idea of what our guys are trying to do and have a better understanding when I'm watching.

Very few teams ice the ball screen as frequently as Duke does.

And we do play the ball screen well some of the time. Would you be interested in seeing GIFs of Duke when we play the ball screen well? Would that be useful to you, or do you prefer a different team to watch? If so, I'd probably recommend Florida. UVA uses a hard hedge. Louisville plays a match up zone.

[UrinalCake]

Curious what you guys think about using a 1-3-1 zone like we did with some success last season. We don't have Brandon and his gumby-like wingspan, but Tatum could be disruptive at the top of the defense. I think I remember him defending at the top against UNLV in what I think was a 3-2 zone and he did it fairly well. Then we could potentially hide Bolden by having him literally just stand in the middle of it, with Matt in the back to chase the corner shooters and our other two guards on the wings.

When we tried it last year I thought we were a bit overagressive, having three or four defenders swarm the ball handler which left too many open guys across the court. But a softer zone might be a way to help contain dribble penetration while not requiring this complex switching scheme that apparently requires a rocket scientist to figure out because none of our freshmen can execute it.

[Billy Dat]

Curious what you guys think about using a 1-3-1 zone like we did with some success last season. We don't have Brandon and his gumby-like wingspan, but Tatum could be disruptive at the top of the defense. I think I remember him defending at the top against UNLV in what I think was a 3-2 zone and he did it fairly well. Then we could potentially hide Bolden by having him literally just stand in the middle of it, with Matt in the back to chase the corner shooters and our other two guards on the wings.

When we tried it last year I thought we were a bit overagressive, having three or four defenders swarm the ball handler which left too many open guys across the court. But a softer zone might be a way to help contain dribble penetration while not requiring this complex switching scheme that apparently requires a rocket scientist to figure out because none of our freshmen can execute it.

I think it's hard to adopt new defensive approaches on the fly mid-season, especially when the rotation is still in flux due to injury. With Amile's injury being the prime example, our major problem is lack of continuity.

In the "last quarter" of the FSU game, we employed that 1-2-2 3/4 court press to try and get some turnovers to launch a comeback, and probably to reduce the amount of time their half court motion could eviscerate our defense...and Jayson was at the head of it and it looked ok. I can't recall which zone looks we've shown this year in the halfcourt, but the Louisville pre-game thread has a bunch of chatter about using zone because Louisville is such a poor shooting team, and I think that's how we famously beat them in 2014/15 coming off the two game conference losing streak.

All that is to say I am open to anything, but wary of how new defensive schemes can be learned and executed without Amile to captain the ship.

[Troublemaker]

Curious what you guys think about using a 1-3-1 zone like we did with some success last season. We don't have Brandon and his gumby-like wingspan, but Tatum could be disruptive at the top of the defense. I think I remember him defending at the top against UNLV in what I think was a 3-2 zone and he did it fairly well. Then we could potentially hide Bolden by having him literally just stand in the middle of it, with Matt in the back to chase the corner shooters and our other two guards on the wings.

When we tried it last year I thought we were a bit overagressive, having three or four defenders swarm the ball handler which left too many open guys across the court. But a softer zone might be a way to help contain dribble penetration while not requiring this complex switching scheme that apparently requires a rocket scientist to figure out because none of our freshmen can execute it.

Pitt did use a 1-3-1 in the second half against Lville last night, and that helped the Panthers get back into the game, which may have spurred your idea.

Maybe cobble something together to be used as a changeup, but I think we need to continue to get reps in m2m.