MBB: Duke at FSU (1/10, 8:00pm, ACCN) Pre-Game and In-Game Thread

[uh_no]

1) Can we watch on ESPN3 in the triangle?
2) Amile?
3) if amile doesn't play, will we do better than the showing after he went out vs BC?

FSU is a REALLY good team. KP 20, coming off a road win vs UVA and home vs VT (who you might recall whupped us...)

[CDu]

FSU is GOOD this year. Interestingly, though, they aren't your typical FSU squad. Yes, they do have a pair of guys over 7-feet tall, but this year's team largely plays small. Ojo (7'1", 290) plays about 15 mpg. Koumadje (7'4", 235) plays about 10 mpg. The dup combines for about 9 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 2.5 bpg, and 4 fouls/game in 25 mpg. They are tall, but not overly skilled. Jarquez Smith (6'9", 225) plays the rest of the minutes. He is active and athletic, but not very skilled.

Where this team differs from past FSU squads is that they play smaller and more spread out. I already mentioned that Smith gets about 15 mpg as an undersized C. The PF spot is manned by frosh Jonathan Isaac, a 6'10", 210lb (not a typo) do-it-all combo forward. Isaac shoots 3s (35.7%), leads the team in rebounding, and is second in steals and blocks. He is long, lean, athletic, and pretty darn good. His backup is Cofer (6'8", 205), who is basically minutes-filler. Sometimes Cofer slides to C when FSU goes really small.

Where FSU excels is on the wings. Bacon is the star. A 6'7" athlete who is all forward, he returned as a soph after a great freshman year to prove he can shoot. So far, so good. Bacon leads the team in scoring and shoots 37% on 3s. He will be a handful snd then some. Alongside him is Terance Mann, a 6'6" wing who doesn't shoot well but is athletic and does the dirty work (4.8 rpg). Angola-Rodas and Savoy also play, and both can shoot it.

The primary ballhandlers are Rathan- Mayes (6'4", 190) and Forrest (6'5", 210). Rathan-Mayes came to FSU as a scorer, but like Allen has taken on more of a distributor role with more talent around him. But make no mistake, he can still light it up. He has won games for them almost single-handedly. Forrest is a talented frosh who is big, athletic, physical, not much of a shooter, but leads the team in steals.

These Noles just don't play like the Noles of yore. They play up-tempo, and are very good offensively. Conversely, they aren't the defensive juggernaut like usual. They are actually fun to watch.

Their pace of play makes me nervous. We have not played good transition D (especially when the freshman bigs play) and FSU can go get it. If Jefferson is out, FSU could put a hurting on us. They are especially tough at home, but they have also already beaten UVa on the road. They have a variety of scoring weapons, and they have great athleticism. We may need to play small, as their "4" can abuse a big on the perimeter. We may have to play Tatum exclusively at the 4 so as to handle their spread offense.

It is going to be a tough, tough game.

[uh_no]

It is going to be a tough, tough game.

That's especially true given how much trouble we had with our last wing heavy team: VT. I'm very very worried about this game if Amile is unavailable.....Luke showed he is not always up to the task (though I hope he was sick or SOMETHING last night), and Matt, though fortuantely has found some of his shot again, has not been the best on the other end.

Tatum is our only real wing.....and unless we can afford to go really small (tatum at 5), we may have a really really tough time defending these guys.

I hate to say I don't think Duke will win, but I have a hard time figuring out how duke wins this game unless absolutely everything goes right on the offensive end.

[DukieInBrasil]

1) Can we watch on ESPN3 in the triangle?
2) Amile?
3) if amile doesn't play, will we do better than the showing after he went out vs BC?

FSU is a REALLY good team. KP 20, coming off a road win vs UVA and home vs VT (who you might recall whupped us...)

We didn't have Grayson vs. VaTech, so that took the wind out of our offense. Not having Amile will take the wind out of our defense as we saw vs. BoCo. Does the offense provided by Grayson outweigh the defense (and offense) of Amile? I don't like that trade-off personally.
Will FSU's size give us too many problems? Will Duke look to go small with Tatum at the 4 and cycle 4 guys between 3 spots (AG, MJ, FJ and LK)? Will Jeter or DeLaurier be available? If Capel commits to going small, will Jack White play if there's foul trouble among the 4 guards? Are the matchups of Ojo vs Bolden or Giles vs Isaac good for Duke to exploit? Since most of FSU's strengths lie in the backcourt, will our backcourt win that matchup?
Looks like FSU has NINE guys who can reasonably be expected to take and make 3s, although none of the guys who play in every, or most, games shoots better than 39% from 3. Duke has 2 guys shooting at or above 40% from 3, 2 more shooting 33% or better and Tatum, who hasn't shot all that many 3s yet, at 28%. FSU shoots 3s at a marginally better rate than Duke, 37.5 vs 37.0%. Seems like a lot will depend on who get the most from their 3pt shooting. Overall, Duke's 3pt shooting has been on the upswing the last 2 games, shooting better than the season average in both.
I think offensive rebounding for Duke will be important in this one. FSU doesn't play their experienced big man, Ojo, all that much, and deservedly so, the dude's a stiff. Huge, but a stiff, and only averages 5ppg. I expect Bolden to come in any time Ojo is in. I expect Giles to match up against J Isaac whenever possible. It remains to be seen what Duke might do vs 7'4 Koumadje, but he only averages 4/2 p/rpg anyway.
FSU has a lot of tall players, with 10 guys 6'6 or taller, and Duke is pretty tall, with only 1 player listed at 6'3 and 8 guys 6'6 or taller, 3 of whom might not be available though.
Hopefully, Duke's skill will overcome their depth.

[Troublemaker]

3) if amile doesn't play, will we do better than the showing after he went out vs BC?

Definitely. Against BC, we didn't get a chance to gameplan or practice for Amile's absence. Plus, the players were probably a little shellshocked from yet another injury, to a beloved captain, in the same foot that knocked him out for the season last year. One of the reasons why Amile came out of the locker room was probably just to attempt to calm the team down.

So yeah, we'll be better prepared and at a higher level for Amile's absence on Tuesday, but that doesn't mean Duke is going to beat Florida St. This is a road game against a very good ACC team.

CDu - excellent preview.

[Troublemaker]

We may need to play small, as their "4" can abuse a big on the perimeter. We may have to play Tatum exclusively at the 4 so as to handle their spread offense.


Will Duke look to go small with Tatum at the 4 and cycle 4 guys between 3 spots (AG, MJ, FJ and LK)? Will Jeter or DeLaurier be available? If Capel commits to going small, will Jack White play if there's foul trouble among the 4 guards?

I consider Tatum at the 4 to be a near-lock.

At their current level of play and conditioning, I'm just hoping Harry and Marques can combine for 40 minutes at center, probably with some spot minutes from Chase if he's available.

Even if Amile were healthy, we were probably going to play small a good amount to match up with Isaac. But now with Amile out, we'll see Jayson almost exclusively at the 4.

[CDu]

We didn't have Grayson vs. VaTech, so that took the wind out of our offense. Not having Amile will take the wind out of our defense as we saw vs. BoCo. Does the offense provided by Grayson outweigh the defense (and offense) of Amile? I don't like that trade-off personally.
Will FSU's size give us too many problems? Will Duke look to go small with Tatum at the 4 and cycle 4 guys between 3 spots (AG, MJ, FJ and LK)? Will Jeter or DeLaurier be available? If Capel commits to going small, will Jack White play if there's foul trouble among the 4 guards? Are the matchups of Ojo vs Bolden or Giles vs Isaac good for Duke to exploit? Since most of FSU's strengths lie in the backcourt, will our backcourt win that matchup?
Looks like FSU has NINE guys who can reasonably be expected to take and make 3s, although none of the guys who play in every, or most, games shoots better than 39% from 3. Duke has 2 guys shooting at or above 40% from 3, 2 more shooting 33% or better and Tatum, who hasn't shot all that many 3s yet, at 28%. FSU shoots 3s at a marginally better rate than Duke, 37.5 vs 37.0%. Seems like a lot will depend on who get the most from their 3pt shooting. Overall, Duke's 3pt shooting has been on the upswing the last 2 games, shooting better than the season average in both.
I think offensive rebounding for Duke will be important in this one. FSU doesn't play their experienced big man, Ojo, all that much, and deservedly so, the dude's a stiff. Huge, but a stiff, and only averages 5ppg. I expect Bolden to come in any time Ojo is in. I expect Giles to match up against J Isaac whenever possible. It remains to be seen what Duke might do vs 7'4 Koumadje, but he only averages 4/2 p/rpg anyway.
FSU has a lot of tall players, with 10 guys 6'6 or taller, and Duke is pretty tall, with only 1 player listed at 6'3 and 8 guys 6'6 or taller, 3 of whom might not be available though.
Hopefully, Duke's skill will overcome their depth.

I don't think Giles will play on Isaac much at all, except if caught on switches. Isaac is 6'10", but he is more perimeter-oriented. It just isn't a good matchup for Giles. I think Tatum and Jones will share the assignment of Isaac.

Ojo just isn't good, so I wouldn't worry about which center is guarding him. Any of Giles, Jeter (if available), Bolden, or Vrankovic would do fine defending Ojo. FSU doesn't run any real offense through him anyway. Koumadje is springy and long snd can catch alley-oops, but he is rail-thin. Like Ojo, they don't dump it to him in the post. The important thing in defending either is to not lose track of them off-ball around the basket. Their offense comes almost exclusively off drive-and-dish, alley-oops, and putbacks.

[Furniture]

Definitely. Against BC, we didn't get a chance to gameplan or practice for Amile's absence. Plus, the players were probably a little shellshocked from yet another injury, to a beloved captain, in the same foot that knocked him out for the season last year. One of the reasons why Amile came out of the locker room was probably just to attempt to calm the team down.

So yeah, we'll be better prepared and at a higher level for Amile's absence on Tuesday, but that doesn't mean Duke is going to beat Florida St. This is a road game against a very good ACC team.

CDu - excellent preview.

I agree with this and that could be a good observation about why Amile came back out although I also hope that it was because his injury just isn't that bad. Let's not forget that we should see more improvement from Harry and Marquis too.

[gofurman]

I agree with this and that could be a good observation about why Amile came back out although I also hope that it was because his injury just isn't that bad. Let's not forget that we should see more improvement from Harry and Marquis too.

Three things I want. In order


Good news about Amile. .. Improvement by Harry and Bolden. ... A win

I would easily take a loss to hear good news about Amile. Hope this is A chance for Harry to improve. This will be a game that I would actually be surprised if Duke won. I just don't see us winning without Amile. You all saw our second half v bc. Hopefully Tuesday is better but it's a lot to ask of Harry in his sixth game or whatever to get those rotations right. I fear a lot of open layups.

[jipops]

I was hoping we got our seasonal blowout over with after the VTech game. Now with Amile likely being out, that may not be the case. Seems probable that FSU will put a hurtin' on us at their place. I just don't see how we can defend these guys. Except for Tatum, we're largely void of a defensive presence in the front court now. Giles and Bolden are a long ways away from being effective in that dept. And as was mentioned up thread, we haven't shown much of an ability to defend teams that get out in transition. I fear this game may be reminiscent of that Miami game in '13 in Coral Gables when Ryan Kelly was out with his foot injury. But if it is, we'll learn from it and move on. If not, then it's a big bonus win without Amile.

[ipatent]

FSU is better than VA Tech, and their bigs will be a real test if Jefferson is out.

[Edouble]

I was hoping we got our seasonal blowout over with after the VTech game. Now with Amile likely being out, that may not be the case. Seems probable that FSU will put a hurtin' on us at their place. I just don't see how we can defend these guys. Except for Tatum, we're largely void of a defensive presence in the front court now. Giles and Bolden are a long ways away from being effective in that dept. And as was mentioned up thread, we haven't shown much of an ability to defend teams that get out in transition. I fear this game may be reminiscent of that Miami game in '13 in Coral Gables when Ryan Kelly was out with his foot injury. But if it is, we'll learn from it and move on. If not, then it's a big bonus win without Amile.

Putting the ball in the basket will go a long way towards solving this problem. The lineup of Grayson, Luke, Frank/Matt (whose shot has returned), Jayson, and Harry is a pretty potent offensive lineup.

[Furniture]

Putting the ball in the basket will go a long way towards solving this problem. The lineup of Grayson, Luke, Frank/Matt (whose shot has returned), Jayson, and Harry is a pretty potent offensive lineup.

In the spirit of optimism here is an interesting stat.

Assists last 2 games: 44
Assists previous 2 games: 15
That = new PG

[moonpie23]

harry and jayson are jonsing for this opportunity....they're both (bolden as well) looking to live up to the hype. With Amile out, and Grayson singed by the microscope, look for the frosh to ratchet up the reason they came to duke...


i may have to eat these words later, but i'm thinking these guys are coming to prove something...

[uh_no]

Putting the ball in the basket will go a long way towards solving this problem. The lineup of Grayson, Luke, Frank/Matt (whose shot has returned), Jayson, and Harry is a pretty potent offensive lineup.

I was going to spout something about how the offense wasn't that good last night, especially in the half court, especially when Amile was out....but

the two lineups you point out were +8 in 14:33 last night....given, it should be better given how bad BC is, BUT it could be worse.

That said, At some point Jayson will need a sit down...and replacing Jayson with the other guard in that lineup resulted in -5 in 3:36. Pulling Grayson was a -2 in :40.

Those numbers are of course, very limited, and harry is getting better, and they haven't played without amile yet...there are a ton of factors....but not having amile leaves us (again) with precious little wiggle room...Giles, Jayson, Kennard, and Grayson would pretty much have to play the whole game.

[jipops]

Putting the ball in the basket will go a long way towards solving this problem. The lineup of Grayson, Luke, Frank/Matt (whose shot has returned), Jayson, and Harry is a pretty potent offensive lineup.

Offense is not so much of what I'm worried about. We can still score 75 or 80 points and lose by a decent margin.

[CDu]

FSU is better than VA Tech, and their bigs will be a real test if Jefferson is out.

FSU's bigs are not the threat. Their guards and wings and their ability to score in transition are the threat. If FSU wants to try to beat us inside, that plays as advantage Duke.

[DukieInBrasil]

Offense is not so much of what I'm worried about. We can still score 75 or 80 points and lose by a decent margin.

I would suspect that scoring 75 or 80 would be tantamount to losing for this squad w/o Amile.
I agree that i am not nearly as worried about the offense as withe defense.

[Troublemaker]

FSU's bigs are not the threat. Their guards and wings and their ability to score in transition are the threat. If FSU wants to try to beat us inside, that plays as advantage Duke.

Yep, agreed. If we can see Michael Ojo posting up anyone -- even if it's, say, Matt Jones on a switch -- that's a win for Duke.

Flipping it to the other side of the court, though, FSU's bigs probably ARE a nice test to try to score around. They're becoming a good Leonard Hamilton team (which he hasn't built in a few years) that holds down the opponent's 2-pt percentage with their size.

[Saratoga2]

I am hoping that Luke will show up in this game and be more aggressive. For whatever reason, Luke seemed to disappear offensively in the last game after the first few minutes and actually did a similar thing in parts of the game prior to that. His defense was also not as solid. He switches well but was driven past at will. Has he been ill or is having a reaction to the return of Grayson? We need him to return to what he has been doing for the majority of the season.

[Troublemaker]

The Matt Jones - Dwayne Bacon defensive matchup will be huge for Duke. Bacon is FSU's leading scorer at 18.1 ppg, with next closest being Isaac at 12.2 ppg.

Typically these big scoring wings like Bacon have been right in Matt's defensive wheelhouse. If he can make Bacon inefficient, that could cut the head off the snake and swing the game to Duke.

Jayson needs to win his lotto pick matchup with Isaac as well.

Unlike others, I feel like there's a path to good defense in this game for Duke, even without Amile. It starts with our other co-captain taking down the big scoring wing Bacon.

[CDu]

The Matt Jones - Dwayne Bacon defensive matchup will be huge for Duke. Bacon is FSU's leading scorer at 18.1 ppg, with next closest being Isaac at 12.2 ppg.

Typically these big scoring wings like Bacon have been right in Matt's defensive wheelhouse. If he can make Bacon inefficient, that could cut the head off the snake and swing the game to Duke.

Jayson needs to win his lotto pick matchup with Isaac as well.

Unlike others, I feel like there's a path to good defense in this game for Duke, even without Amile. It starts with our other co-captain taking down the big scoring wing Bacon.

Yes, those two matchups are critical. I would expect both Jones and Tatum to play as much as they can. I'd expect Allen to play on Mayes/Forrest as much as he can. There will be screens which cause switches, but to the extent that our 3 best defenders on the perimeter can stay on their 3 best offensive player, the better for us.

The other key will be limiting their easy baskets in transition. To be frank, we have stunk in transition defense lately. That needs to change tomorrow night.

[Spanarkel]

FSU is GOOD this year. Interestingly, though, they aren't your typical FSU squad. Yes, they do have a pair of guys over 7-feet tall, but this year's team largely plays small. Ojo (7'1", 290) plays about 15 mpg. Koumadje (7'4", 235) plays about 10 mpg. The dup combines for about 9 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 2.5 bpg, and 4 fouls/game in 25 mpg. They are tall, but not overly skilled. Jarquez Smith (6'9", 225) plays the rest of the minutes. He is active and athletic, but not very skilled.

Where this team differs from past FSU squads is that they play smaller and more spread out. I already mentioned that Smith gets about 15 mpg as an undersized C. The PF spot is manned by frosh Jonathan Isaac, a 6'10", 210lb (not a typo) do-it-all combo forward. Isaac shoots 3s (35.7%), leads the team in rebounding, and is second in steals and blocks. He is long, lean, athletic, and pretty darn good. His backup is Cofer (6'8", 205), who is basically minutes-filler. Sometimes Cofer slides to C when FSU goes really small.

Where FSU excels is on the wings. Bacon is the star. A 6'7" athlete who is all forward, he returned as a soph after a great freshman year to prove he can shoot. So far, so good. Bacon leads the team in scoring and shoots 37% on 3s. He will be a handful snd then some. Alongside him is Terance Mann, a 6'6" wing who doesn't shoot well but is athletic and does the dirty work (4.8 rpg). Angola-Rodas and Savoy also play, and both can shoot it.

The primary ballhandlers are Rathan- Mayes (6'4", 190) and Forrest (6'5", 210). Rathan-Mayes came to FSU as a scorer, but like Allen has taken on more of a distributor role with more talent around him. But make no mistake, he can still light it up. He has won games for them almost single-handedly. Forrest is a talented frosh who is big, athletic, physical, not much of a shooter, but leads the team in steals.

These Noles just don't play like the Noles of yore. They play up-tempo, and are very good offensively. Conversely, they aren't the defensive juggernaut like usual. They are actually fun to watch.

Their pace of play makes me nervous. We have not played good transition D (especially when the freshman bigs play) and FSU can go get it. If Jefferson is out, FSU could put a hurting on us. They are especially tough at home, but they have also already beaten UVa on the road. They have a variety of scoring weapons, and they have great athleticism. We may need to play small, as their "4" can abuse a big on the perimeter. We may have to play Tatum exclusively at the 4 so as to handle their spread offense.

It is going to be a tough, tough game.


Enjoyed the excellent summary! Hopefully "Terence" Mann will be too concerned with his next writing project or too tired from a recent road trip to Iowa to contribute much tomorrow.

[CDu]

Enjoyed the excellent summary! Hopefully "Terence" Mann will be too concerned with his next writing project or too tired from a recent road trip to Iowa to contribute much tomorrow.

Thanks! Unclear if Terance is any relation to Terrence, though i suspect not ;).

[jv001]

Great write up Cdu on Florida State. For some reason, I'm concerned on how this game is called. Will the refs continue to call hand checking on defenders? Will Grayson be able to drive and distribute the ball as he has since his return. Will Luke be aggressive, both on offense and defense. Will this game be a 98-96 type game or will the game be in the 70 or 80 point game? I say for Duke to win we have to score at least 85 points. But what do I know? I'm just a Duke fan and a cheat hater. :cool:GoDuke!

[NM Duke Fan]

Gary Parish at CBS has FSU rated at 8 and Duke at 6, for whatever that is worth. With FSU on an 11 game winning streak and the recent injury to Amile and the instant major impact on defensive communication and efficiency, I personally will be pleasantly surprised if Duke pulls this one out. Regardless of the result, recent quotes from Giles make me all the more eager to see how he steps up in this game. Hopefully Chase is healthy now too, his experience could come in handy here. In any case, I suspect the most likely outcome is a tightly contested contest till the end.

[Troublemaker]

Vegas Insider (http://www.vegasinsider.com/college-basketball/odds/las-vegas/) has now listed Amile as OUT, and Vegas has opened FSU as a 1-pt favorite. If I had to guess, I think the line will move in FSU's direction, so they will be a slightly bigger favorite at tip time.

[MChambers]

Vegas Insider (http://www.vegasinsider.com/college-basketball/odds/las-vegas/) has now listed Amile as OUT, and Vegas has opened FSU as a 1-pt favorite. If I had to guess, I think the line will move in FSU's direction, so they will be a slightly bigger favorite at tip time.

I know if I were a betting man, I'd take FSU giving a point.

[CDu]

I know if I were a betting man, I'd take FSU giving a point.

Yeah, I'd be fairly surprised if we win. Pleasantly so, but fairly surprised. FSU is no joke, especially this year and especially in Tallahassee.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

First half, I think Duke will need to spread the floor and drive more,...hope to finish at the rim and draw some fouls to get some easy points. Second half is the shooters half and they will need to go in at a high rate for Duke to prevail in this one.

Defensively is where the problems lie in this one. FSU is balanced and aggressive with the ball. They will attack the rim. Some Zone may be required.

Injuries have Duke playing thin, Amile's intensity will be missed, and Giles is playing too timid, some strong board work will be necessary from someone for Duke to have a chance.

[Olympic Fan]

Pomeroy projects FSU with a one-point win, but also rates Duke's chances at 50 percent.

Incidentally, the new AP poll is out and Duke is at No. 7 with FSU at No. 9. Duke is also seven in the coaches poll; FSU is 10th.

[Kedsy]

Injuries have Duke playing thin, Amile's intensity will be missed, and Giles is playing too timid, some strong board work will be necessary from someone for Duke to have a chance.

I agree with you in general, and I recognize that against BC, Harry Giles's boardwork was only OK. But for the season (what little he's played of it), Harry has a better overall rebounding percentage than anybody on UNC's team (though his defensive rebounding is a slight bit less than Meeks). The guy can board.

[MChambers]

Pomeroy projects FSU with a one-point win, but also rates Duke's chances at 50 percent.

Incidentally, the new AP poll is out and Duke is at No. 7 with FSU at No. 9. Duke is also seven in the coaches poll; FSU is 10th.

Pomeroy doesn't account for Amile being out.

[Troublemaker]

I know if I were a betting man, I'd take FSU giving a point.

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[CDu]

I agree with you in general, and I recognize that against BC, Harry Giles's boardwork was only OK. But for the season (what little he's played of it), Harry has a better overall rebounding percentage than anybody on UNC's team (though his defensive rebounding is a slight bit less than Meeks). The guy can board.

Not only that, but Giles' rebound rate is also higher than Jefferson's. Of course, it's pretty much the ONLY thing Giles is doing better than Jefferson right now. But to call out rebounding as where the Devils will suffer with Giles in place of Jefferson is, quite simply, wrong.

We will suffer in many ways (team defense, post scoring efficiency, court awareness, flow of play). But rebounding is the one area in which we are equipped to replace Jefferson with Giles. Again, the ONLY such area.

That is, unless Giles (or Bolden or Jeter) takes this opportunity to really step up in other areas.

[Channing]

slowing down the revolving door to the hoop is obviously paramount. VT and second half BC got to the rim at will, which was so frustrating to watch. I think both Bolden and Giles are athletic enough to hedge and recover, but my guess is that the game comes down to pick and roll defense.

[CDu]

slowing down the revolving door to the hoop is obviously paramount. VT and second half BC got to the rim at will, which was so frustrating to watch. I think both Bolden and Giles are athletic enough to hedge and recover, but my guess is that the game comes down to pick and roll defense.

It isn't a matter of athleticism with Giles and Bolden. They have the physical tools to succeed defensively. They just don't have the awareness yet.

[NM Duke Fan]

It isn't a matter of athleticism with Giles and Bolden. They have the physical tools to succeed defensively. They just don't have the awareness yet.

Athleticism is more than adequate. Their defense has not yet become ingrained into an instinctual reaction requiring little to no thought, it takes varying amounts of time for each player for this flow to occur. And then the oppossing offense actually seems to slow down and at times anticipation of where the offense is going. Then defense is a thing of beauty. Perhaps some baby steps towards that tonight?

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Not only that, but Giles' rebound rate is also higher than Jefferson's. Of course, it's pretty much the ONLY thing Giles is doing better than Jefferson right now. But to call out rebounding as where the Devils will suffer with Giles in place of Jefferson is, quite simply, wrong.

We will suffer in many ways (team defense, post scoring efficiency, court awareness, flow of play). But rebounding is the one area in which we are equipped to replace Jefferson with Giles. Again, the ONLY such area.

That is, unless Giles (or Bolden or Jeter) takes this opportunity to really step up in other areas.

I think Duke would likely struggle rebounding in this one with Jefferson too. FSU is big, and their wings and guards are strong.

Stats lie, or paint inaccurate pictures. I don't put much weight in them for much past FT %. Too many variables. Good place to start, but I trust my eyes more.

Giles is a good, natural rebounder, but he's not playing strong inside.(Demanding the ball, mixing it up, putting a body on someone, banging, etc..) His stats are not against quality inside players at this point.

FSU is strong inside. They have NBA size. Giles, (or Bolden/Jeter), will have to step up and play much more intense than I've seen so far with Amile out, (Amile would mix it up inside, big loss)... as will Tatum, who's been more content to stay outside the paint. He'll need to go to the boards too.

If Duke can find ways to rebound strong, they have a much better chance in this one. I think it could be a big key to the game.

[CDu]

I think Duke would likely struggle rebounding in this one with Jefferson too. FSU is big, and their wings and guards are strong.

Stats lie, or paint inaccurate pictures. I don't put much weight in them for much past FT %. Too many variables. Good place to start, but I trust my eyes more.

Giles is a good, natural rebounder, but he's not playing strong inside.(Demanding the ball, mixing it up, putting a body on someone, banging, etc..) His stats are not against quality inside players at this point.

FSU is strong inside. They have NBA size. Giles, (or Bolden/Jeter), will have to step up and play much more intense than I've seen so far with Amile out, (Amile would mix it up inside, big loss)... as will Tatum, who's been more content to stay outside the paint. He'll need to go to the boards too.

If Duke can find ways to rebound strong, they have a much better chance in this one. I think it could be a big key to the game.

I am guessing you haven't seen much of FSU this year, because they don't actually play with size this year. They have two tall guys: Ojo and Koumadje. Neither is a good rebounder. Nor is either a big presence on the court. They combine for about 25 mpg. In ACC play, that drops to a shade under 20 mpg. And they have averaged just 3.7 rpg in those 19.7 mpg in ACC play. Koumadje is charmin soft. He has ONE rebound in ACC play this year in over 20 minutes of action. He's NBA tall (7'4") but a terrible rebounder and non-entity on the glass. He most certainly does not pose a threat with regards to playing physically. Ojo is bigger (7'1", 290), but is just kind of a clumsy oaf and not overly effective. Those two are so bad that FSU is forced to play basically half the game with a 6'8-6'9", 220 lb guy at C. Who also isn't very good, nor is much of a rebounder.

Aside from that? They play a pair of SFs at PF. Those SFs rebound about as well as our SF at PF (Tatum). The starter is a future NBAer, but he's 6'10", 210. He's not big and physical. The other is 6'8", 205 or 6'6", 200. And neither is very good.

This isn't your older brother's FSU squad. Basically, FSU plays ultra small ball. Duke will be as big and as physical as FSU will. FSU is extremely athletic on the perimeter, and they will spread and attack from all angles with their guards/wings. That will require more floor awareness than I've seen from the frosh so far. But they aren't an imposing physical team inside. At all.

Where they are effective on the glass is that - by spreading you out - their athletic and strong guards run in and steal rebounds. Again, that's a floor awareness issue and not a strength of play issue. If our big is near the basket, he's going to get the board. It's when they are able to pull the big away from the basket that their guards/wings feast on the boards. Again, a court awareness issue (and moreso a court awareness issue for our guards/wings) rather than a playing strong inside issue.

And FSU isn't some rebounding juggernaut at that. They are basically break-even in rebounding against power-5 schools. They are +11 in 7 games, including games against Wake, Temple, and Minnesota. That's not to say they are a bad rebounding team. Just that they aren't some rebounding machine.

[Wander]

Not only that, but Giles' rebound rate is also higher than Jefferson's. Of course, it's pretty much the ONLY thing Giles is doing better than Jefferson right now. But to call out rebounding as where the Devils will suffer with Giles in place of Jefferson is, quite simply, wrong.

We will suffer in many ways (team defense, post scoring efficiency, court awareness, flow of play). But rebounding is the one area in which we are equipped to replace Jefferson with Giles. Again, the ONLY such area.

It'd be nice to have the ability to play both Jefferson and Giles at the same time, though. Or to have both available in case one gets in foul trouble. Also, Giles has not played nearly enough minutes for his rebounding rate to be reliable (although he certainly does look like an amazing rebounder). So I do think it's pretty fair to say that our rebounding will probably suffer with Jefferson out.

[CDu]

It'd be nice to have the ability to play both Jefferson and Giles at the same time, though. Or to have both available in case one gets in foul trouble. Also, Giles has not played nearly enough minutes for his rebounding rate to be reliable (although he certainly does look like an amazing rebounder). So I do think it's pretty fair to say that our rebounding will probably suffer with Jefferson out.

I don't think playing Jefferson and Giles together is a great idea. Both are best suited to play the C position. They will, by necessity, share the floor some (maybe 5-10 minutes or so).

But will our rebounding suffer some? Sure. Jefferson is our second-best rebounder, so losing him obviously hurts some. But on the list of problems that Jefferson's absence creates for us, rebounding is WAAAAAAAY down on the list.

[Eakane]

I can't believe all the negativity on this thread. Sure, we'll miss Jefferson, and FSU has a solid team this year, and it's always hard to win Conference road games, but we have a great team that presents unbelievable match-up problems.

Who guards Tatum? If it's a 4, he'll take him outside; if it's a three, he'll dribble drive.
Do you double Giles, which leaves you exposed to a kickout; or do you double Gray or Luke which gives them passing chances to Giles or Bolden for easy baskets.
What about Jones? Do you leave him open and hope he's cold from the outside? How do you adjust if he burns you 2 or 3 times, and what hole does that open up?
Or do you just go zone and hope all of Duke's shooters are off?

Defensively, Jones will be on Bacon, and that can make him a non-factor. Do they have the guards to exploit pressure ball-you-man-defense? Can they limit turnovers when we press?

FSU, on the road, mid-January? I love it. FSU has a good squad and a gaudy record, but we will be their biggest challenge to date. I like our chances.

[CDu]

I can't believe all the negativity on this thread. Sure, we'll miss Jefferson, and FSU has a solid team this year, and it's always hard to win Conference road games, but we have a great team that presents unbelievable match-up problems.

It's not negativity. It's reality. FSU is favored in this game, and that's based on data that included Jefferson playing. It's not negative to say that FSU should be expected to win. They are a top-10 team playing at home against a team without their senior leader in the middle.


Who guards Tatum? If it's a 4, he'll take him outside; if it's a three, he'll dribble drive.

This is one place the Seminoles are quite adequately equipped. Isaac (a 6'10", 210lb combo forward) and Bacon (a 6'7", 210lb combo forward) are well suited to match up with Tatum. He might have a talent advantage, but he doesn't have a mismatch advantage.


Do you double Giles, which leaves you exposed to a kickout; or do you double Gray or Luke which gives them passing chances to Giles or Bolden for easy baskets.

Nobody has doubled Giles, and so far Giles hasn't shown the offensive game yet to warrant a double team. I doubt FSU will double Giles.


What about Jones? Do you leave him open and hope he's cold from the outside? How do you adjust if he burns you 2 or 3 times, and what hole does that open up?

I don't think they'll "leave anyone open" intentionally. As noted, they won't plan to double team anyone. So they don't have to intentionally leave someone open.


Defensively, Jones will be on Bacon, and that can make him a non-factor. Do they have the guards to exploit pressure ball-you-man-defense? Can they limit turnovers when we press?

Yes. Isaac, Forrest, and Mayes are all very capable of attacking us off the dribble. And in case you haven't noticed, we don't exactly stop dribble penetration all that well or play aggressive ball-you-man defense. Nor do we press all that much, nor force a ton of turnovers with a press. We are just solid defensively. But that was with Jefferson playing heavy minutes. Our defense is substantially worse with him off the floor.

And FSU has played tougher defenses this year. UVa and UF are better defensively than us. They won both those games.


FSU, on the road, mid-January? I love it. FSU has a good squad and a gaudy record, but we will be their biggest challenge to date. I like our chances.

Actually, I'd say that playing at UVa was a bigger test than an undermanned Duke squad at home. But it's probably pretty close.

I'm definitely not saying we can't win. I'm saying that I'd give the slight edge to FSU. But almost no result (aside from maybe a Duke blowout win) in this game would surprise me.

[Bob Green]

I can't believe all the negativity on this thread.

I do not interpret the posts in the thread as negative. There is a lot of good analysis being posted and a significant amount of concern being expressed, but not a lot of negativity. FSU on the road will be challenging. Like you, I like our chances. It should be an exciting game.

[jipops]

It's good to hear that Chase and Javin will be healthy for the FSU game. I don't expect either to provide much of an impact, if at all. Neither are ready to provide significant contributions in ACC level games. But with potential foul issues for Giles and Bolden it will be good to have them available to play a few minutes here and there.

[CDu]

It's good to hear that Chase and Javin will be healthy for the FSU game. I don't expect either to provide much of an impact, if at all. Neither are ready to provide significant contributions in ACC level games. But with potential foul issues for Giles and Bolden it will be good to have them available to play a few minutes here and there.

Yeah I would expect Jeter to get at least a few minutes.

The good news is that FSU plays pretty small. As a result, we will be able to go with a 4-guard lineup for stretches too if need be. But having Jeter as a third big gives a bit of a safety net for Giles.

[NSDukeFan]

It's good to hear that Chase and Javin will be healthy for the FSU game. I don't expect either to provide much of an impact, if at all. Neither are ready to provide significant contributions in ACC level games. But with potential foul issues for Giles and Bolden it will be good to have them available to play a few minutes here and there.

I think Jeter has been trending towards providing significant contributions in ACC level games. I think he can provide some good minutes with good energy and knowledge of team defence, if healthy.

[Wander]

I don't think playing Jefferson and Giles together is a great idea. Both are best suited to play the C position. They will, by necessity, share the floor some (maybe 5-10 minutes or so).

But will our rebounding suffer some? Sure. Jefferson is our second-best rebounder, so losing him obviously hurts some. But on the list of problems that Jefferson's absence creates for us, rebounding is WAAAAAAAY down on the list.

Giles was listed as a PF as a recruit and is projected as a PF in the NBA. I think he can play PF in college just fine (but also C as you say). I also will give a classic DBR guarantee Giles and Jefferson will play much more than 5 minutes together once they are both fully healthy as they will be 2 of our 5 best players.

That said I do largely agree with you - the place we will miss Jefferson the most is interior non-rebounding-related defense. But I think you are underestimating his rebounding, which we also miss.

[DRC]

Putting the ball in the basket will go a long way towards solving this problem. The lineup of Grayson, Luke, Frank/Matt (whose shot has returned), Jayson, and Harry is a pretty potent offensive lineup.
Yeah, if they're all collectively on their game. Here's hoping they are, and maybe FSU will have an off night. Most of all, I hope Amile's foot injury isn't serious and he'll be back soon.

[CDu]

Giles was listed as a PF as a recruit and is projected as a PF in the NBA. I think he can play PF in college just fine (but also C as you say). I also will give a classic DBR guarantee Giles and Jefferson will play much more than 5 minutes together once they are both fully healthy as they will be 2 of our 5 best players.

That said I do largely agree with you - the place we will miss Jefferson the most is interior non-rebounding-related defense. But I think you are underestimating his rebounding, which we also miss.

As you know, NBA PFs usually played C in college. NBA SFs typically played PF in college. So his listing as an NBA PF isn't really an argument for him as a PF in college. Right now, his game is that of a college C.

I am sure there will be plenty of games where Giles and Jefferson share the flor for more than 5 minutes. The UNC games are a great example. And there will be plenty of games where that duo sharing the floor creates problems defensively. That is especially true against smaller, more perimeter-oriented teams like FSU.

[FerryFor50]

I think Jeter has been trending towards providing significant contributions in ACC level games. I think he can provide some good minutes with good energy and knowledge of team defence, if healthy.


Considering Jeter was able to make a significant contribution against Kansas, I think he could make contributions in ACC play.

[Dukehky]

Woof. Not feeling great about this one.

[Furniture]

Blue Devil Nation‏ @BlueDevilNation (https://mobile.twitter.com/BlueDevilNation)
Bone bruise for Amlile and those injuries flat out take a while to heal. Duke will need to grow up quick with two difficult games ahead.

[gofurman]

Blue Devil Nation‏ @BlueDevilNation (https://mobile.twitter.com/BlueDevilNation)
Bone bruise for Amlile and those injuries flat out take a while to heal. Duke will need to grow up quick with two difficult games ahead.

All I care about is Amile health and team growth towards March

But As far as this game I don't get a lot of positivity. You saw how we looked with this lineup in the second half v BC.. A FAR worse team. Then we had one other ACC road game ..at VT. That went, well, bad. Of our three acc games we have had three good halves - two halves v GT and the first half v BC. Those three halves were all at home and all with Amile. More so we have often struggled in Talahassee w great teams. We have lost several times there. And this is a great FSU team. Strong. Two or three NBA guys

[whereinthehellami]

Telling myself to think long game here cause the storm clouds are brewing for tonight. I want to see some toughness and togetherness from the team tonight. This team is going to take some shots as they put everything together and with the injuries there is only so much they can control. Playing together and tough is something they can control. But i think a shot to the chin is coming tonight.

[TKG]

Would not be surprised if we leave Tallahassee with an "L", this evening. I am interested in how HG and MB handle themselves against FSU's interior. No pun intended, but it will be a tall order. At this point, I hope to see improvement from both HG and MB in terms of foot movement, playing the PnR and staying out of foul trouble. Compared to the Good Guys, the Noles are older and more experienced in their frontcourt so there is no shame in struggling. But we can improve and make strides in becoming a team that can have success in March. Really hope our transition D improves, as well.

[jv001]

I think Duke would likely struggle rebounding in this one with Jefferson too. FSU is big, and their wings and guards are strong.

Stats lie, or paint inaccurate pictures. I don't put much weight in them for much past FT %. Too many variables. Good place to start, but I trust my eyes more.

Giles is a good, natural rebounder, but he's not playing strong inside.(Demanding the ball, mixing it up, putting a body on someone, banging, etc..) His stats are not against quality inside players at this point. FSU is strong inside. They have NBA size. Giles, (or Bolden/Jeter), will have to step up and play much more intense than I've seen so far with Amile out, (Amile would mix it up inside, big loss)... as will Tatum, who's been more content to stay outside the paint. He'll need to go to the boards too.

If Duke can find ways to rebound strong, they have a much better chance in this one. I think it could be a big key to the game.

I think it's way too early to say Giles is not playing strong inside. He's just now getting used to playing college basketball. You forget it had been a long time since he had played any games. He now finds himself playing against some of the biggest front lines in the college game. I think Harry has handled himself fairly well considering his time away from the game. As far as Tatum is concerned, he's done quite well since coming back from his injury. I don't think rebounding will be the area that hurts us against a very good Florida State team. I think stopping dribble penetration is the area we need to improve in. Well, that and getting back on defense. From what I've read, FSU likes to run and we've had problems against teams that are not near as good as FSU. I do agree with you, we will miss Amile but I'm hoping the freshmen grow up fast. GoDuke!

[Troublemaker]

Vegas Insider (http://www.vegasinsider.com/college-basketball/odds/las-vegas/) has now listed Amile as OUT, and Vegas has opened FSU as a 1-pt favorite. If I had to guess, I think the line will move in FSU's direction, so they will be a slightly bigger favorite at tip time.

As expected the line has moved towards FSU and they're now a 2.5-pt favorite.

[MrPoon]

I havn't seen FSU play this year so any comment would be based on box scores and other posts. I'll keep my thoughts to the good guys. Win or loose, I think Amil being out will put more focus on Giles, Bolden and Jetter to be ready and over the long term, that experience will be big.

For me and I've been screaming for most of the season, we need to play with more pace. Grayson as PG really helps that. Make FSU chase us not the other way around. Lets try and get this game in the 80+. We aren't a great defensive team now, so be it. What I didn't like most about the VaTech game is we played it on their terms. Win or loose, let's start building to the team we want to be. I'm not saying you concede a game but I'd like to play more to our long term strengths.

I suspect this is a game where we start to see even more from Giles. His athleticism and instincts are starting to show up. With more PT and no Amil, that is a lot of points and rebounds that will be available, he needs to get 'em.

Lastly, with Amil out, Grayson needs to be a de facto captain, even if not by title. Pace and athleticism needs to be the story of this day. Improvement on D would be nice (especially transition D) but with a relatively lower 3pt % by FSU, I wouldn't be surprised if Coach sprinkles in a few zone plays to help the young centers (could exacerbate a rebounding shortage but probably still worth it on some set D).

[Bob Green]

What I didn't like most about the VaTech game is we played it on their terms.

The VT game was an anomaly. With Grayson Allen not playing, I don't believe the VT game can be effectively used as a data point.

[CDu]

The VT game was an anomaly. With Grayson Allen not playing, I don't believe the VT game can be effectively used as a data point.

It might be an anomaly. Of course, we looked similar against BC after Jefferson went out. So it is possible that the anomalous nature is simply "one of the few proven veterans was out". Or in other words, "when we have to play 2-3 freshman at a time, we look not so good." Which, unfortunately will be the case tonight.

[DukieInBrasil]

The VT game was an anomaly. With Grayson Allen not playing, I don't believe the VT game can be effectively used as a data point.

VaTech was an anomaly for sure, since Grayson has been a key distributor for Duke all year, and especially since his return post-suspension.
The style of play w/o Grayson in that game was painful, we just had no vroom. Duke needs to be able to score quickly to be most effective, but also needs a good drive-n-pass player in the half-court. Grayson can do both for Duke. Grayson's presence on D is not nearly as important as is his offense, so the absence of Amile and his defense may be extra difficult to overcome.

[dukelifer]

It might be an anomaly. Of course, we looked similar against BC after Jefferson went out. So it is possible that the anomalous nature is simply "one of the few proven veterans was out". Or in other words, "when we have to play 2-3 freshman at a time, we look not so good." Which, unfortunately will be the case tonight.

I will be happy if Duke can keep it close and pull out a win. This is a very tough game given the circumstances. We will need all bodies and fouls. If Luke is not on- could be a long night. Amile makes the D better. The frosh - mostly Giles and Bolden- have not shown themselves to have great defensive instincts. Going to need to battle.

[curtis325]

I will be happy if Duke can keep it close and pull out a win. This is a very tough game given the circumstances. We will need all bodies and fouls. If Luke is not on- could be a long night. Amile makes the D better. The frosh - mostly Giles and Bolden- have not shown themselves to have great defensive instincts. Going to need to battle.

I'm also hoping Duke can keep it close and I'm more optimistic than many posters. I'm looking for a very big game by Luke including a 40-footer at the buzzer for the win.

[MChambers]

I'm also hoping Duke can keep it close and I'm more optimistic than many posters. I'm looking for a very big game by Luke including a 40-footer at the buzzer for the win.

I like your attitude! I'll have two of whatever you're having.

Does Luke bank it or does it go straight in?

Seriously, emotionally I'm pessimistic, like so many here, but largely because Duke was so bad in the second half without Amile. Thinking more rationally, however, I remember that we all tend to overvalue recent experience or data and that partially explains the pessimism. Our team is very talented, more talented than FSU, and certainly can pull it off.

[DukieInBrasil]

I like your attitude! I'll have two of whatever you're having.

Does Luke bank it or does it go straight in?

Seriously, emotionally I'm pessimistic, like so many here, but largely because Duke was so bad in the second half without Amile. Thinking more rationally, however, I remember that we all tend to overvalue recent experience or data and that partially explains the pessimism. Our team is very talented, more talented than FSU, and certainly can pull it off.

I agree with your last sentence. If FSU plays the game it wants, it will probably win, unless Duke does everything perfectly on offense. Duke can win if FSU's outside shooting is so cold that it can't make up for it with slashing to the basket. If Duke can be at season average on offensive efficiency, and have a defensive scheme that holds FSU at or below it's season average efficiency, i think Duke can win.
There's a lot of moving parts and i don't think any one thing will be the key. Tbs, good (or at least improved) transition D by Duke, pushing the ball up-court quickly to prevent FSU from setting its defense, winning the offensive rebounding battle and winning the turnover battle will enhance Duke's chances tonight. Otoh, that's true in just about every game.

[DukeWarhead]

Blue unis, please. No black unis or we are in trouble. :eek: You think I'm joking....

[NM Duke Fan]

I like your attitude! I'll have two of whatever you're having.

Does Luke bank it or does it go straight in?

Seriously, emotionally I'm pessimistic, like so many here, but largely because Duke was so bad in the second half without Amile. Thinking more rationally, however, I remember that we all tend to overvalue recent experience or data and that partially explains the pessimism. Our team is very talented, more talented than FSU, and certainly can pull it off.

Amile's loss was sudden and rattled the team. They have now had some time to adjust psychologically and otherwise. Plus Jeter is now available, and he has some contributions he can make with his experience. Giles and Bolden both might take a significant step forward tonight, taking advantage of the opportunity and rallying around Amile's absence. It is going to be very interesting, and Tatum could have a big game. His defense has been pretty darn good at times too. I am seeing this game as more of an optimist.

[sagegrouse]

I like Duke for the win tonight. This is a "show what you are made of" game, and we will show we have a very strong team.

[Volunteer Duke]

Blue unis, please. No black unis or we are in trouble. :eek: You think I'm joking...

It's your lucky day. We are wearing blue. Saw it on Twitter.

[arnie]

I like Duke for the win tonight. This is a "show what you are made of" game, and we will show we have a very strong team.

Agree, the VPI debacle showed Duke they need to be ready to play; and I think FSU will be way too cocky at the start.

[hudlow]

I like Duke for the win tonight. This is a "show what you are made of" game, and we will show we have a very strong team.

Exactly!

GO DUKE!!!

[WiJoe]

throwback blues. THANK YOU!

:cool:

[DukeDevilDeb]

It's your lucky day. We are wearing blue. Saw it on Twitter.

I used to like the black uniforms... thought they looked sharp and the players seemed to like them too.

But we have had some serious disasters when we've worn them, especially in the last couple of years.

Out with the black and in with the blue!

GO DEVILS!!!!

[-jk]

DBR Chat (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/misc.php?do=cchatbox) is open!

If it gets a bit slow, refresh the page. If you're on a mobile device, you'll need to select "Blue" at the bottom.

As always - please follow the DBR Posting Guidelines.

Let's Go Duke!

-jk

[riverside6]

Live tempo-based stats for Duke/FSU, starters posted...

http://www.scacchoops.com/duke-at-fsu-basketball-live-stats-01102017

[WVDUKEFAN]

I'm watching in my iPad. Ready for Mr. Bolden to come in and break out!

[GGLC]

They are crazy long and athletic, as always.

[kmspeaks]

This Florida State team may not be as effective defensively as teams of the past but they are just as physical. RIP Freedom of Movement, we'll see you again next November.

[arnie]

Agree, the VPI debacle showed Duke they need to be ready to play; and I think FSU will be way too cocky at the start.

Wrong again - oh well.

[WVDUKEFAN]

They are calling chicken shat fouls. That last one on G man was bs.

[dukelion]

Touch foul after touch foul......tough to watch.

[rsvman]

The refs are not shy about being the whistle. Sheesh. Every missed shot is apparently because of a foul.

We may have to go zone soon.

[barjwr]

This Florida State team may not be as effective defensively as teams of the past but they are just as physical. RIP Freedom of Movement, we'll see you again next November.

And yet, we're the team in early foul trouble

[rsvman]

And voila. The zone. And it seems to be working well.

Very impressed with Grayson and his passing. Wow!

[WVDUKEFAN]

Allen at PG has contributed to Matt hitting the triple and playing better basketball as a whole.

[jipops]

Thank goodness fsu doesn't play defense either.

[kmspeaks]

And yet, we're the team in early foul trouble

You can't get away with fouls on the ball. They're grabbing and bumping guys off the ball, making it hard to get to spots. They did call one where Tatum got held.

[barjwr]

I wonder if Grayson tripped that guy by taking a charge...
😆

[barjwr]

I figured we were hosed when I heard Ted Valentine's name announced

[arnie]

The drop off inside with Amile out is staggering. Giles is obviously talented but prone to silly fouls. Jeter and Bolden are miles behind.

[gocanes0506]

I figured we were hosed when I heard Ted Valentine's name announced

Ted has been calling a many of fouls 30 feet from the play with another ref 3 feet away.

[BlueHeaven]

At game. Very stressful. Sold out. Booing GA. Need freshman to pour it on in second half.

[BlueHeaven]

Officiating terrible

[fuse]

I wish we would initiate our offense closer to the 3 point line than half court.

Impressed with the effort and grit so far, guys are working hard.

Not many calls going Duke's way.

Going to take a bit of luck and similar effort in the second half to bring this one home.

Let's go Duke!

[gocanes0506]

At game. Very stressful. Sold out. Booing GA. Need freshman to pour it on in second half.

Doing a lot more than booing

[arnie]

No points from the bench - they need to provide some offense if we're gonna win.

[Kjeffrey]

Ted has been calling a many of fouls 30 feet from the play with another ref 3 feet away.

He is awful!! Probably been marking days on his calendar looking forward to this game,

[Tripping William]

He is awful!! Probably been marking days on his calendar looking forward to this game,

All 6 of them? He was part of the crew against GT in Cameron on Wednesday.

[wavedukefan70s]

Welcome to maryland south...
We looked a little rattled at times.

[jipops]

If the noles get it any where near the paint it's practically an automatic 2. Can't believe we're still in this right now. Defense looks absolutely awful though. Feels like fsu is going to break this open at any moment.

[rsvman]

Getting sloppy. Too many turnovers.

I didn't see the walk they called on Tatum. I feel like they stole two from us on that play.

[BigZ]

Please stop the alley oop passes

[Coballs]

Getting sloppy. Too many turnovers.

I didn't see the walk they called on Tatum. I feel like they stole two from us on that play.

And any slight momentum we were starting to build.

[ChrisP]

Tatum trying to set a record for # of turnovers in a game :mad:

Freshman mistakes are KILLING us in this game. I'm not surprised - road games in the ACC are B-R-U-T-A-L this year. So, I expected us to lose but...was really hoping it wouldn't be like this. Jeez.

[Dukeblue91]

How many passes are we going to throw away.
Amazingly we are still in the game.

[kshepinthehouse]

Getting sloppy. Too many turnovers.

I didn't see the walk they called on Tatum. I feel like they stole two from us on that play.

Definitely think they missed that one

[BigZ]

Tatum is good and getting baskets for himself or hitting shots created by others but he is terrible at passing

[cruxer]

Getting sloppy. Too many turnovers.

I didn't see the walk they called on Tatum. I feel like they stole two from us on that play.

Only 1 person on the planet saw that travel. Unfortunately he's also getting paid to officiate the game.

[kmspeaks]

And any slight momentum we were starting to build.

Yep, then gave up 8 unanswered.

[jipops]

This is such ugly basketball. No defense whatsoever on one end, zero. And then no concept of offensive organization on the other. This will end with a double digit difference.

[CDu]

Inability to stop dribble penetration. It is killing us on defense.

And then sloppy turnovers killing us on offense.

[Billy Dat]

I can't see us going small...need Giles or Bolden to give us something here

[Channing]

Our defense is just so porous...so disconcerting.

[BigZ]

How do you go small and have worse on the ball defense?

[Karl Beem]

Pathetic.

[Billy Dat]

We look lost right now...guys going one-on-one, not being ready to rebound the second shot from the line, not sprinting back on defense...this is ugly right now.

[rsvman]

Cascading in the wrong direction right now.

We really need what Amile brings to the table.

[gocanes0506]

Fab freshmen dont know team D or hustle when they make a mistake
Team O is gone, its the tatum show with a couple of buckets and a handful of turnovers

[BigZ]

Poor Capel

[dukelion]

Not thrilled with some of the body language.....we miss Jefferson's leadership bigtime.

[chrishoke]

Matador defense.

[CDu]

I may have mentioned that FSU's perimeter players are good. They are showing it. Their ability to beat us off the dribble is the primary difference in this game. They spread you out use their bigs as screeners, and attack the rim. We have had no answer.

[DUKIE V(A)]

Our lack of poise and poor decision-making is killing us. Need to settle down and execute.

[barjwr]

Getting killed on our defensive boards.
Box. Out. Please.

[MartyClark]

A couple of thoughts:

1. I hate ESPN3. I get a good picture about 40% of the time;

2. I hate the "First Take" , Stephen A Smith commercials. I have watched more Stephen A. Smith today than I have in the past decade:

3. This is a brutal game. Giles and Bolden needed to step up. They didn't. Duke's defense is bad.

Go Duke!

[CDu]

Getting killed on our defensive boards.
Box. Out. Please.

No, we are getting killed by dribble penetration, which forces our bigs to help and leave their assignment. Very few of their offensive rebounds have been off jumpers.

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

It's all practice until March. This very moment is the perfect teacher.
Love, Ima

[barjwr]

No, we are getting killed by dribble penetration, which forces our bigs to help and leave their assignment. Very few of their offensive rebounds have been off jumpers.

Boxing out gives very little advantage on jump shots; they produce long rebounds. We have to recover when we get beaten on the dribble to get in rebounding position, even in rotation to another guy's man. They have well over 40 pts in the paint.

[jbay201]

what happened to allen?

[CDu]

Boxing out gives very little advantage on jump shots; they produce long rebounds. We have to recover when we get beaten on the dribble to get in rebounding position, even in rotation to another guy's man. They have well over 40 pts in the paint.

Boxing out always is valuable. But it is nearly impossible to box out when you are chasing on a drive.

Cut down on dribble penetration and you cut down on offensive rebounds allowed.

[kshepinthehouse]

Giles and bolden overmatched on D
Jeter overmatched on O.

Would be nice to combine their powers.

[subzero02]

Where is Grayson... finger strain?

[rsvman]

what happened to allen?

The announced seemed to indicate that he got hit in the....um....nether regions, but I didn't see what actually happened.

[CDu]

Where is Grayson... finger strain?

Shot to the junk I think. Or concussed.

[sbroc012]

Nothing ever good happens at the Tucker Center for us. Something about the place makes it feel like an out of conference game. Not to mention it seems every time it's a physical poorly called game whether we win or lose.
No Jefferson. On to the next one. I feel like if Duke is going to win the whole thing this year it's going to be as a 2/3 seed that no one wants to see.

[jbay201]

The announced seemed to indicate that he got hit in the...um...nether regions, but I didn't see what actually happened.

wow playing against a bunch of thugs...

[subzero02]

We should have started pressing earlier. Tatum forced too many things on offense this game.

[cruxer]

wow playing against a bunch of thugs...

Don't do this....

[kshepinthehouse]

Don't do this...

Yea. And I don't necessarily think it's been a poorly called game either. I haven't seen any bad behavior from FSU. They seem like nice kids. We just got taken to the woodshed in the second half.

[jipops]

Well this result is what many of us figured it would be. No surprise at all here. Doesn't make how it came to be any less discouraging. Unfortunately the next game likely won't be very pleasant either. We're a team still in October playing the best of the conference.

[subzero02]

Let's get off the court and regroup... long season ahead... lots of work to do but we have plenty of potential still.

[-jk]

Miss Amile...

-jk