FB Championship: Alabama v. Clemson

[ipatent]

Who do you have?

Clemson has a chance if its offense can execute and avoid being physically overpowered like UW was. Not sure about the Clemson defense against the Alabama offense. Clemson gives up a lot of points to second rate opponents, then shuts out Ohio State.

It would be a great storyline if Clemson won the re-match, but they may have had a better chance last year. If Alabama dominates like they did against Washington, there will be talk of the best team of all time.

[moonpie23]

altho, saban will rue the day that he let kiffen walk away from this game.....no matter WHAT went on...


it will be his excuse when clemson beats them...

[Devilwin]

Alabama won't be able to walk the dog on Clemson like they did on Washington.. I am picking Clemson to bring it home this time.

[wavedukefan70s]

Im rooting for bama.if for no other reason than every yahoo around here has clemson gear on.

[Bob Green]

I will be rooting hard for Clemson but there is no way I would bet one dime against Alabama.

[camion]

Living as I do in Greenville, SC I will either be rooting for or against Clemson. I haven't decided whether I would enjoy a giant party or an enormous wake more. I tend toward smaller schools and have a close relationship with Davidson, Duke, Furman (in chronological order).

Rooting aside, my expectation is an Alabama win.

[hudlow]

A local connection to Clemson's Carlos Watkins - who appears to be a good kid with a great future - is all that makes me hope Clemson wins.

Beyond that, I just hope it's as entertaining as the last match up.

If I was forced to bet, I'd take Bama and spot Clemson a TD.

[Indoor66]

Clemson, Clemson, Clemson all the way.😈😂😁😎

[kmspeaks]

Head says Alabama, heart says Clemson. Urban Meyer lost so I'm happy no matter what happens.

[OldPhiKap]

Pulling for Clemson, would not bet against 'Bama. But second time's a charm.

[Olympic Fan]

I will be rooting hard for Clemson but there is no way I would bet one dime against Alabama.

ditto -- Clemson winning would really help the national perception of ACC football.

Based entirely on results, the ACC has been better than the SEC (and MUCH better) than the Big Ten over the last 2-3 years. But the media's perception hasn't caught up with results. I know that a national title game in itself doesn't measure conference strength, but I'm talking about changing perceptions. I think Alabama is the best team, but they were the only exceptional team in that league this year (kind of like SEC basketball now, with Kentucky and the dwarfs).

[WVDUKEFAN]

Roll Tide. Coach Saban is from my hometown in West Virginia.

[Troublemaker]

I just want to see Alabama's offense have to try to do stuff instead of relying on a historically great defense to win it. For example, Washington couldn't threaten Bama's defense at all, so Bama's offense just played conserva-ball the entire time.

The Clemson offense, led by Watson, might be able to have enough success against Bama's defense that Bama's offense has to crawl out of its shell and attempt to make more plays than usual.

[JNort]

I don't see anyway Clemson doesn't get beat. I could be biased cause I love to see the SEC dominate and want Bama to win by 30+

[DukieInKansas]

Go, Tigers!

Will be watching the sidelines carefully for a nephew sighting. He works with the strength and conditioning staff.

[ipatent]

Head says Alabama, heart says Clemson.

I felt that way last year, and suppose I'll still root for Clemson, but I also became a Nick Saban fan after that onside kick. It takes a lot of guts to not play it safe when you're the favorite, but he thought his defense was tired and he didn't flinch from doing that.

[elvis14]

I don't see anyway Clemson doesn't get beat. I could be biased cause I love to see the SEC dominate and want Bama to win by 30+

Thank goodness it's too late for the SEC to dominate in general, of course they could dominate this game. The ACC has dominated bowl season this year.

As a Clemson alum, I'll obviously be rooting for Clemson. Alabama is and should be favored but I see lots of ways Clemson doesn't get beat. Clemson's offense, when playing well, can score against Alabama. The real question mark is Clemson's defense. Some weeks we look like we can...I don't know say shut out 0hi0 State and other weeks we give up lots of points to weaker teams. If the weaker defense shows up Clemson will be in trouble.

[Avvocato]

I'm rooting for Clemson. The one thing that worries me in this game for Clemson is that the Alabama defense feeds off turnovers, and as great as Watson is, he has been turnover prone for much of this season. I'm hoping Watson steps up in the bright lights once again wreaking havoc on that 'Bama defense with his great weapons. Should be a fun game. Let's see if that's what we get.

[arnie]

I felt that way last year, and suppose I'll still root for Clemson, but I also became a Nick Saban fan after that onside kick. It takes a lot of guts to not play it safe when you're the favorite, but he thought his defense was tired and he didn't flinch from doing that.

Excellent point. I think the talent and experience levels between teams are a push. Just think Saban understands what it takes to win; not sure Dabo has that intellect. Looking forward to exciting game and hope Bama doesn't put it away early.

[-jk]

I'm rooting for Clemson. The one thing that worries me in this game for Clemson is that the Alabama defense feeds off turnovers, and as great as Watson is, he has been turnover prone for much of this season. I'm hoping Watson steps up in the bright lights once again wreaking havoc on that 'Bama defense with his great weapons. Should be a fun game. Let's see if that's what we get.

So if Clemson wins - and more kids go pro early, weakening them next year, what does that do to usual ACC fratricide?

-jk

[Wander]

Thank goodness it's too late for the SEC to dominate in general, of course they could dominate this game. The ACC has dominated bowl season this year.


Agreed - not just bowl season, either. The ACC has been the best conference in the country this year. Before the bowl season, I would have said Big Ten #1 and ACC #2, but given the bowl results you have to flip that. But the ACC was better than the SEC regardless.

But I don't think that matters at all for tonight's game.

[duke4ever19]

I never trust Clemson players, especially in the NFL draft.

I'm guess I'm going with Bama tonight.

[dukie’s_daughter]

...with Spurrier at the coin toss!!

[duke4ever19]

...with Spurrier at the coin toss!!

I swear, I think they booed him! I wonder which fanbase that was . . .

[killerleft]

I swear, I think they booed him! I wonder which fanbase that was . . .

Might have been anybody but Duke fans.:)

[OldPhiKap]

I swear, I think they booed him! I wonder which fanbase that was . . .

Clemson certainly, the SC-Clemson rivalry is NASTY. And Spurrier loved to rag on Clemson.

Alabama fans cannot love him either, really.

[chrishoke]

Alabama defense is dominating.

[Avvocato]

So if Clemson wins - and more kids go pro early, weakening them next year, what does that do to usual ACC fratricide?

-jk

Clemson kids are leaving early regardless. They are that talented. Dabo has done an amazing job recruiting at a high level. While it's hard to say how they replace a guy like Watson, they are loaded with young talent, including young stud QB recruits. Clemson will be fine. They just may need a year to adjust to a new QB the way FSU did this year.

[dukelifer]

Alabama defense is dominating.

Clemson better figure it out soon or this is going to get ugly

[devildeac]

Very nice drive by the Tigers.

Stayin' Alive, just like the Chick-fil-A commercial. :rolleyes:

[devildeac]

To elvis14:

I know the game is far from over, but fumbling on about your own 20? WTH? I swear there's a name for that...

[OldPhiKap]

To elvis14:

I know the game is far from over, but fumbling on about your own 20? WTH? I swear there's a name for that...

Clemsoning?

[devildeac]

Clemsoning?

Yep, but elvis swore that didn't exist anymore. :rolleyes:

[OldPhiKap]

Yep, but elvis swore that didn't exist anymore. :rolleyes:

Clemson has had two great seasons. So . . . Maaaayyyyyyyybbbbbeeeeee.

[moonpie23]

Rut-roh....

[devildeac]

Clemson has had two great seasons. So . . . Maaaayyyyyyyybbbbbeeeeee.

Just giving my buddy a chain-yanking;). That was a nice short drive/3rd down call/catch/run by the Tigers after a solid 3 and out by their D and a weak Alabama punt.

[arnie]

Rut-roh...

ESPN going for 5-minute commercial breaks. Goal is to make this a 5 hour game.

[MulletMan]

You would think that Clemson would have practiced covering the TE after last year. ITS EVEN THE SAME GUY!!!!

[DUKIECB]

ESPN going for 5-minute commercial breaks. Goal is to make this a 5 hour game.I was thinking the same thing. Its 11:30, we are 3:15 into the game so far and still have a quarter to go. I want to go to bed but Clemson keeps hanging around. Three point game again.

[Troublemaker]

Heroic effort by Watson, win or lose, from a withstanding punishment standpoint.

[dukelifer]

Heroic effort by Watson, win or lose, from a withstanding punishment standpoint.

Tough kid

[Troublemaker]

Tough kid

I just want them to take the lead. If Hurts can lead a game-winning drive, so be it.

[davekay1971]

I just want them to take the lead. If Hurts can lead a game-winning drive, so be it.

Wish granted...

[OldPhiKap]

Game on.

[devildeac]

I just want them to take the lead. If Hurts can lead a game-winning drive, so be it.

Clemson defense, outside of the blown coverage on that long TD pass has been quite good this half. Scarborough's (sp?) absence has hurt Alabama.

Heckuva game.

[davekay1971]

I thought Alabama had a running back on their roster. Think those USC offensive coordinators forgot about that...

Addendum: yep. there IS one. Tide might want to use them while they have time. Because their quarterback stinks.

Addendum 2: At throwing, I mean.

[DUKIECB]

Fast becoming a classic.

[devildeac]

Clemsoning...

[duke4ever19]

Clemsoning...

Truer words were never spoken.

EDIT: Did Clemson just kill "Clemsoning"?

[dukelifer]

Clemsoning...

Amazing drive with a trick play- wow

[davekay1971]

Clemsoning...

Not quite yet...

[Troublemaker]

I was gonna say playing for a FG attempt is a mistake, but now they're inside the 10.

[DUKIECB]

Did they waste too much time there?

[devildeac]

Is Dabo's middle name roy? WTH? No TO?

[davekay1971]

I was sweating the time. Now Dabo looks smart. Time for two plays for the end zone and a time out.

[Troublemaker]

Not enough time. They might as well pass interfere on every play.

[devildeac]

Amazing. What a game/finish!

[Troublemaker]

There's 1 sec left in the game, Clemson. Your special teams have been a mess all game.

[pfrduke]

Deshaun Watson led two AMAZING drives to win this game. Also, Clemson dialed up two very nice pick plays for touchdowns.

Barring a Duke-Miami esque fiasco, great title for the Tigers

[davekay1971]

There's 1 sec left in the game, Clemson. Your special teams have been a mess all game.

Losing it now would "Clemsoning"

[devildeac]

There's 1 sec left in the game, Clemson. Your special teams have been a mess all game.

Time for 8 laterals!

(devildeac leaves building)

[Neals384]

What a time for snow to knock out my dish. Missed entire game. If I had known, coulda gone to a sports bar, but forecast was for rain. Sounds like this was a classic!

[pfrduke]

Very poetic for Clemson to clinch this on an onside kick.

[OldPhiKap]

Acc! Acc! Acc!

[davekay1971]

And wow. Congratulations to Clemson. What a game. Watching most of the first half, it was hard to imagine how Clemson would have any chance to come back and win Alabama's defense had them completely stymied. But Clemson just kept coming, they settled down, they kept chipping away, and all of a sudden it was Alabama's offense that seemed incapable to moving the ball. What a second half. What a game.

Watson's performance, ultimately, was even more impressive than the ref's guns and tanning bed work.

[Troublemaker]

Not enough time. They might as well pass interfere on every play.

To clarify the above... Bama should've defensive-held and pass-interfered like crazy until the clock ran out. Obviously, the game can't end on a defensive penalty, BUT they would've held Clemson to a FG attempt.

Great game and great win by Clemson.

Bama finally had to play a great QB.

[dukelifer]

To clarify the above... Bama should've defensive-held and pass-interfered like crazy until the clock ran out. Obviously, the game can't end on a defensive penalty, BUT they would've held Clemson to a FG attempt.

Great game and great win by Clemson.

Bama finally had to play a great QB.
Amazing game- worth the sleep deprivation

[devildeac]

To clarify the above... Bama should've defensive-held and pass-interfered like crazy until the clock ran out. Obviously, the game can't end on a defensive penalty, BUT they would've held Clemson to a FG attempt.

Great game and great win by Clemson.

Bama finally had to play a great QB.

Yep. Said the same thing to Mrs. dd after the PI call that gave Clemson the ball 1st and goal at the 2 (?).

[DukieInKansas]

I think I have a very happy nephew. Way to go, Clemson.

[BandAlum83]

What a time for snow to knock out my dish. Missed entire game. If I had known, coulda gone to a sports bar, but forecast was for rain. Sounds like this was a classic!

That's the reason I have cable instead of a dish. I've been too many places that lost sat reception in rain. I wouldn't want to miss any Duke basketball because of rain.

[moonpie23]

saban got out coached........can't wait to hear his bitter speech...

[BullBlue]

Man, what a game. Worth staying up past my bedtime.
Congratulations to Mrs. BullBlue's alma mater on their 2nd national championship. We started dating the year they won the first one.

[BandAlum83]

First off, let me say I am ecstatic at the Clemson win. Way to represent the ACC.

Maybe the Atlanta sports media will give even equal coverage to ACC and SEC...forget it that won't happen.

But secondly, am I the only one to sorta hope for a TOTAL miami-esquese fiasco to end the game?

Imagine the refs blowing the initial call, reviewing the play and getting it wrong again and awarding the game to Alabama?

What would happen? Would the Duke haters again say "move on, the result can't be overturned". Would America say it the way it was said last year?

What would the ACC office say? What would ESPN say.

That Miami-Duke result should have been overturned.

Am I still bitter? You bet your a** I am!!

[Doria]

Way to go, Clemson! Great game, and great for the ACC!

[-bdbd]

INSTANT CLASSIC.

What a great, great game. Both teams obviously played their hearts out. I agree that 'bama was outcoached, at least in the second half. Great to see the underdog pull it out!


ACC! ACC! ACC! ACC!

(What a tremendous post-season for the ACC! Wow!!! R-E-S-P-E-C-T!!!!)

:D

[SoCalDukeFan]

Congrats to Clemson, I was rooting for them for a variety of reasons.

College football needs to adopt the NFL rules on reviews. Way too many. Nice to try to get it right but it breaks up momentum.

Also, penalties are now generally reviewed. Clemson works the pick play to perfection. Congrats to them but I think Bama fans will be hollering.

SoCal

[gofurman]

INSTANT CLASSIC.

What a great, great game. Both teams obviously played their hearts out. I agree that 'bama was outcoached, at least in the second half. Great to see the underdog pull it out!


ACC! ACC! ACC! ACC!

(What a tremendous post-season for the ACC! Wow!!! R-E-S-P-E-C-T!!!!)

:D

Anyone objective will agree with this ...despite knee-jerk reaction to the contrary:

It was absolutely the WRONG call to throw that pass on the last play... It only looked good (RESULTS ORIENTED MISTAKE) because it worked. Had he dropped (Renfrow) it there was no time left to kick a FG. If I recall when he caught it it left ONE second on the catch...meaning if he bobbles and drops... Game over. No FG!!! That's football 101. You run a play that doesn't take that long. If you don't have a play shorter than five seconds you kick the FG

Nick Saban agrees w me - he always preaches forget the RESULT and be PROCESS oriented. Sabah is famous for his process-oriented methodology. Coach K says the same in a sense . Just play D and the result will work itself out. And Nick Saban is WAY more successful than Dabo Swinney ever will be.

I heard an NFL analyst say exactly what I am saying. He said Dabo was so LUCKY that play worked other-wise it would go in the annals as a top 5 worst play call ever in the history of football .... For the same reason I said ... It was way too close (one freakin' second for gosh sakes???????) to eliminating your FG chance. Odds are if the catch is missed the ball falls to the ground and time expires. Several guys on radio said same thing.

Shocked the announcers didn't mention that. But then again these are ESPN guys who rail a guy for tripping while praising a guy (Clemson's Boulware) who chokes opponents and admits the whole Clemson defense 'grabs opponents nuts' all year long. . It's a whole team of Chris Paul's!!! I cringe every time someone says anything positive about Ben "I CHOKE people" Boulware. Dude is an Azshwole

[gofurman]

Congrats to Clemson, I was rooting for them for a variety of reasons.

College football needs to adopt the NFL rules on reviews. Way too many. Nice to try to get it right but it breaks up momentum.

Also, penalties are now generally reviewed. Clemson works the pick play to perfection. Congrats to them but I think Bama fans will be hollering.

SoCal

Yeah. For all the replays they never even look at the illegal picks Clemson ran several times. May not be reviewable but, if not, refs need to be told to watch that. I saw it twice in the endzone (blatant) and I don't even know to look for it

Refs need to call that crap. It's in the rule book as illegal

[gofurman]

Yep. Said the same thing to Mrs. dd after the PI call that gave Clemson the ball 1st and goal at the 2 (?).

Yeah. I texted the exact same to a friend.

W ten seconds or less if you are ahead by a FG and your opponent is near the goal line just think about it... Per the rules, just blatantly PI every play. As in this game 9 seconds (play clock) became 6 seconds.. Well, Do it again ... 6 seconds becomes 3 seconds. And now the trailing team HAS to take a FG. Am I missing something here? Seriously. I am really asking. . If Bama just throws every receiver down at the snap they call PI and Clemson loses another three seconds. Sure - the game can't end on a D penalty but you are at three seconds now. Forces Clemson to settle for the FG and Bama is rewarded for their own penalty. Is that incorrect? Do they not let more time tick away w each penalty or if you are obviously doing this do they put the time back on the clock after the first instance? Because they ran it from 9 seconds to 6 seconds on the PI that Bama was called for

Anyone know?

[elvis14]

To elvis14:

I know the game is far from over, but fumbling on about your own 20? WTH? I swear there's a name for that...

It's just a simple turnover.


Clemsoning?

Sorry but Dabo killed that term.


Yep, but elvis swore that didn't exist anymore. :rolleyes:

I stand by my assertion that Dabo killed it. Although it might make a comeback as a term that means to win when your the underdog.


Clemsoning...

Yes...assuming you mean the new definition of winning the Natty as an underdog.


Truer words were never spoken.

EDIT: Did Clemson just kill "Clemsoning"?

Nope, Dabo killed it long ago.


Congrats to Clemson, I was rooting for them for a variety of reasons.

College football needs to adopt the NFL rules on reviews. Way too many. Nice to try to get it right but it breaks up momentum.

Also, penalties are now generally reviewed. Clemson works the pick play to perfection. Congrats to them but I think Bama fans will be hollering.

SoCal

Screw anyone that wants to complain about a rub in the end zone. I played football for 30 years and every team I ever played for or against ran a switch when faced with man to man, especially in short yardage.


I went to grad school at Clemson and I'm a casual fan (not like I am with Duke basketball which I started following while at Clemson 89-91). Tonight I'm a happy casual fan. Been 35 years for Clemson. Last time they won I was an ACC fan but not a Clemson fan.

[Tom B.]

I just want to see Alabama's offense have to try to do stuff instead of relying on a historically great defense to win it. For example, Washington couldn't threaten Bama's defense at all, so Bama's offense just played conserva-ball the entire time.

The Clemson offense, led by Watson, might be able to have enough success against Bama's defense that Bama's offense has to crawl out of its shell and attempt to make more plays than usual.

Dang, good call.

Alabama was laying the wood to Watson early, but Clemson's defense kept them in the game. (How big was the sequence where Clemson's D held Alabama to a FG after Clemson turned it over deep in its own territory to start the second half?) Then Watson regrouped, the offense started clicking, and there was just enough time for Clemson to pull it out.

[Troublemaker]

Anyone objective will agree with this ...despite knee-jerk reaction to the contrary:

It was absolutely the WRONG call to throw that pass on the last play... It only looked good (RESULTS ORIENTED MISTAKE) because it worked. Had he dropped (Renfrow) it there was no time left to kick a FG. If I recall when he caught it it left ONE second on the catch...meaning if he bobbles and drops... Game over. No FG!!! That's football 101. You run a play that doesn't take that long. If you don't have a play shorter than five seconds you kick the FG


Well, here's the play (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkIpWHDq-8A). The ball hits the WR's hands in the end zone with 3 seconds on the clock, so I do think they mostly likely would've gotten time on the clock for a FG attempt even if he dropped it.

Now, I do agree that the play was risky and certain things could've gone wrong that would've ended the game without a FG attempt.

But it's not like there was no upside to the gamble. The upside is that you can win the game. Maybe it's just the gambler in me but I don't fault Clemson for going for the win. Sometimes you have to risk something to win something.

[gofurman]

Well, here's the play (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkIpWHDq-8A). The ball hits the WR's hands in the end zone with 3 seconds on the clock, so I do think they mostly likely would've gotten time on the clock for a FG attempt even if he dropped it.

Now, I do agree that the play was risky and certain things could've gone wrong that would've ended the game without a FG attempt.

But it's not like there was no upside to the gamble. The upside is that you can win the game. Maybe it's just the gambler in me but I don't fault Clemson for going for the win. Sometimes you have to risk something to win something.


Yep. Close. 2ish. For what it's worth my school (not much) - Furman- actually offered that guy Renfrow a scholarship. He had two TDs v Bama last year. Two TDs including the game winner v Bama this year. Obviously the winning play was run specifically for him. And Renfrow was even the Clemson offensive guy who tackled the Bama D player on the big Clemson fumble keeping Bama from scoring a defensive TD ...thus helping hold Bama to 3 points. He never gives up. Furman offered him a scholarship. Clemson DID NOT. He decided to walk on at Clemson. Somehow that sickens me. As if Clemson didn't think he was good enough and now they run plays for him specifically.

Dang it. He should be playing for my school. Lol

[Deslok]

Congrats to Clemson, heck of a 2nd half to win it.

Two notes on the points of contention. First, rub plays abound, in the NFL and all levels of football. If you look at it closely, there was absolutely no possible way any flag should have been flagged. The outside receiver ran a good route, where one defender ended up picking his teammate off Renfrow freeing him up for the TD. The one earlier that freed up Williams for the TD was more arguable. I think it was a good no call, but tossing the flag wouldn't have been ludicrous. But then there were a half dozen pass plays that were debatable the other way on interference. Refs didn't throw a flag in those cases, and you move on. The refs, to their credit, didn't exercise a huge influence on the game. You can disagree here and there, but in the end, the players had to make the plays.

Regarding the timing of the last play, first as was previously noted Renfrow got the ball just as the clock struck 2 in the end zone. Watson is a veteran enough quarterback to know that this was a quick hitting designed play, and if its not there, get rid of it and there would be time for one more play. Obviously if he bobbled it or something odd, five more seconds could elapse. But he trusted his receiver when open to make the catch, and he did. Now, if he's just flat out dropped it, or it was thrown away, there would still be 1 or 2 seconds left on the clock. And that would have been an interesting play call. Because I'm not convinced Dabo kicks the FG there. He might have been comfortable going for it. Ballgame on one play, with Watson needing to convert. Maybe, maybe not. But that option adds to the ridiculousness of calling it a mistaken play. Now one play you can argue the wisdom of kick/not kick(its nearly a 50/50 proposition) but to have two plays vs kicking the field goal the odds aren't even close.

[PackMan97]

If I have a coaching staff good enough to get to back-to-back Championship games, they can call whatever play they want with the game on the line.

[YmoBeThere]

Tom Osborne would have gone for the win also. Second guessed for years, he did end up with 3 national titles. Maybe playing to win is a process? Or perhaps it is just a lifestyle choice?

[kshepinthehouse]

Congrats to Clemson, heck of a 2nd half to win it.

Two notes on the points of contention. First, rub plays abound, in the NFL and all levels of football. If you look at it closely, there was absolutely no possible way any flag should have been flagged. The outside receiver ran a good route, where one defender ended up picking his teammate off Renfrow freeing him up for the TD. The one earlier that freed up Williams for the TD was more arguable. I think it was a good no call, but tossing the flag wouldn't have been ludicrous. But then there were a half dozen pass plays that were debatable the other way on interference. Refs didn't throw a flag in those cases, and you move on. The refs, to their credit, didn't exercise a huge influence on the game. You can disagree here and there, but in the end, the players had to make the plays.

Regarding the timing of the last play, first as was previously noted Renfrow got the ball just as the clock struck 2 in the end zone. Watson is a veteran enough quarterback to know that this was a quick hitting designed play, and if its not there, get rid of it and there would be time for one more play. Obviously if he bobbled it or something odd, five more seconds could elapse. But he trusted his receiver when open to make the catch, and he did. Now, if he's just flat out dropped it, or it was thrown away, there would still be 1 or 2 seconds left on the clock. And that would have been an interesting play call. Because I'm not convinced Dabo kicks the FG there. He might have been comfortable going for it. Ballgame on one play, with Watson needing to convert. Maybe, maybe not. But that option adds to the ridiculousness of calling it a mistaken play. Now one play you can argue the wisdom of kick/not kick(its nearly a 50/50 proposition) but to have two plays vs kicking the field goal the odds aren't even close.

I was rooting for Clemson but I have to disagree with this. The receiver was blocking almost like it was a run play. But then again the receiver and db can make contact with each other in the first five yards so I'm not sure. I do know that the NFL cracked down on this play this year. It got called as a penalty almost every time but I'm not sure college has the same rules/emphasis.

[kshepinthehouse]

Yeah. I texted the exact same to a friend.

W ten seconds or less if you are ahead by a FG and your opponent is near the goal line just think about it... Per the rules, just blatantly PI every play. As in this game 9 seconds (play clock) became 6 seconds.. Well, Do it again ... 6 seconds becomes 3 seconds. And now the trailing team HAS to take a FG. Am I missing something here? Seriously. I am really asking. . If Bama just throws every receiver down at the snap they call PI and Clemson loses another three seconds. Sure - the game can't end on a D penalty but you are at three seconds now. Forces Clemson to settle for the FG and Bama is rewarded for their own penalty. Is that incorrect? Do they not let more time tick away w each penalty or if you are obviously doing this do they put the time back on the clock after the first instance? Because they ran it from 9 seconds to 6 seconds on the PI that Bama was called for

Anyone know?

Great question and strategy and I thought Bama was going to do that when they got called for the first PI. I know NFL has a rule against using penalties to win the game, it's called palpably unfair rule in which the referees can award the yardage the player would have reasonably gained and can actually award a touchdown even if said team didn't score. I'm not sure if college football has this rule but I highly doubt they would have made a call like that in such a huge game. If I was Bama I would have mugged every player on offense and been totally fine with the results. Like you said, most likely the clock would have been used up and it would have forced Clemson to settle for a field goal.

[MarkD83]

Great question and strategy and I thought Bama was going to do that when they got called for the first PI. I know NFL has a rule against using penalties to win the game, it's called palpably unfair rule in which the referees can award the yardage the player would have reasonably gained and can actually award a touchdown even if said team didn't score. I'm not sure if college football has this rule but I highly doubt they would have made a call like that in such a huge game. If I was Bama I would have mugged every player on offense and been totally fine with the results. Like you said, most likely the clock would have been used up and it would have forced Clemson to settle for a field goal.

The risk is they don't call pass interference if the offense scores. If you look at the TD that won the game, the receiver that cut left to "rub" may have been held by the DB or it could have been a pick. My guess is the refs made the decision to let the game be decided by the players.

[CDu]

DeShaun Watson just made himself A LOT of money last night/this morning. The season didn't go smoothly for him, and it was looking like he might fall to a second-day pick. Now, as a Bears fan, I'm trying to decide whether or not I want my team to take him at #3.

The kid has the arm to make all the throws, the athleticism to make plays with his legs or extend plays in/out of the pocket, and the toughness to fight through several big hits to still make big plays. The confidence to take that team down the field in the final minutes for the win.

[moonpie23]

wasn't clemson's kicker 2/5?

[devildeac]

It's just a simple turnover.



Sorry but Dabo killed that term.



I stand by my assertion that Dabo killed it. Although it might make a comeback as a term that means to win when your the underdog.



Yes...assuming you mean the new definition of winning the Natty as an underdog.



Nope, Dabo killed it long ago.



Screw anyone that wants to complain about a rub in the end zone. I played football for 30 years and every team I ever played for or against ran a switch when faced with man to man, especially in short yardage.


I went to grad school at Clemson and I'm a casual fan (not like I am with Duke basketball which I started following while at Clemson 89-91). Tonight I'm a happy casual fan. Been 35 years for Clemson. Last time they won I was an ACC fan but not a Clemson fan.

Sorry about the ribbing. Just couldn't help it. :o

And I am a very happy Clemson/ACC fan today. Huge congrats. We kept a couple of our friends out of cardiac trouble last PM/early AM (we'd like to believe :o) with some texting late in the game and will be contacting one of my former cardiac patients this AM who moved to Florida last year to see if he survived the last Clemson drive.

Now, if we could only get the Clemson MBB team to win in chappaheeya...

[ipatent]

Anyone objective will agree with this ...despite knee-jerk reaction to the contrary:

It was absolutely the WRONG call to throw that pass on the last play... It only looked good (RESULTS ORIENTED MISTAKE) because it worked. Had he dropped (Renfrow) it there was no time left to kick a FG. If I recall when he caught it it left ONE second on the catch...meaning if he bobbles and drops... Game over. No FG!!! That's football 101. You run a play that doesn't take that long. If you don't have a play shorter than five seconds you kick the FG

Nick Saban agrees w me - he always preaches forget the RESULT and be PROCESS oriented. Sabah is famous for his process-oriented methodology. Coach K says the same in a sense . Just play D and the result will work itself out. And Nick Saban is WAY more successful than Dabo Swinney ever will be.

I heard an NFL analyst say exactly what I am saying. He said Dabo was so LUCKY that play worked other-wise it would go in the annals as a top 5 worst play call ever in the history of football ... For the same reason I said ... It was way too close (one freakin' second for gosh sakes???????) to eliminating your FG chance. Odds are if the catch is missed the ball falls to the ground and time expires. Several guys on radio said same thing.

Shocked the announcers didn't mention that. But then again these are ESPN guys who rail a guy for tripping while praising a guy (Clemson's Boulware) who chokes opponents and admits the whole Clemson defense 'grabs opponents nuts' all year long. . It's a whole team of Chris Paul's!!! I cringe every time someone says anything positive about Ben "I CHOKE people" Boulware. Dude is an Azshwole

Good point, but the plan may have been to spike it if the receiver wasn't clearly open.

[Troublemaker]

Now, if he's just flat out dropped it, or it was thrown away, there would still be 1 or 2 seconds left on the clock. And that would have been an interesting play call. Because I'm not convinced Dabo kicks the FG there. He might have been comfortable going for it. Ballgame on one play, with Watson needing to convert.

Great point. Now that you mention it, I lean towards believing Dabo would've gone for it again.

The thing is, as you know, overtime isn't an amazing prize to be had. It's a roughly 50/50 game or maybe roughly 45/55 if one believes Bama is the better team and could assert itself as such.

On the game-winning play, Clemson probably felt they had upwards of an 80% chance to score. This was their best goal-line play, saved in the pocket, for such situations. Clemson had already seen the referees allowing a rub play previously in the game. This was their great QB Watson throwing to their sure-handed receiver who plays great against Bama. Yeah, you definitely take the 80% chance to win and risk the small chance that the clock would run out if something goes wrong.

Now, if that play didn't score and there was 1-2 sec left on the clock, Clemson still had in their pocket their second-best goal-line play for such a situation. It may not score at an 80% rate like the previous play, BUT it probably scores better than 50% or 45%, especially since Watson would have the option to run as well on the final play of the game.

So yeah, I believe Dabo would've gone for it again.

[jv001]

Great point. Now that you mention it, I lean towards believing Dabo would've gone for it again.

The thing is, as you know, overtime isn't an amazing prize to be had. It's a roughly 50/50 game or maybe roughly 45/55 if one believes Bama is the better team and could assert itself as such.

On the game-winning play, Clemson probably felt they had upwards of an 80% chance to score. This was their best goal-line play, saved in the pocket, for such situations. Clemson had already seen the referees allowing a rub play previously in the game. This was their great QB Watson throwing to their sure-handed receiver who plays great against Bama. Yeah, you definitely take the 80% chance to win and risk the small chance that the clock would run out if something goes wrong.

Now, if that play didn't score and there was 1-2 sec left on the clock, Clemson still had in their pocket their second-best goal-line play for such a situation. It may not score at an 80% rate like the previous play, BUT it probably scores better than 50% or 45%, especially since Watson would have the option to run as well on the final play of the game.

So yeah, I believe Dabo would've gone for it again.

Like you, I believe Dabo would have gone for it again had the ball been dropped, but #13(Renfro) doesn't drop many. I was really impressed with this little dude. He's a winner and I bet Bama wishes he was on any team other than Clemson. This was a good Championship game. GoDuke!

[rthomas]

So I didn't see any mention of rioting in Clemson, SC last night. Cars turned over, burned? Anything? Do Clemson students just not care?

[ipatent]

It will be a challenge for Swinney to keep the program near this level post-Watson.

I can only remember knowing one Clemson grad, decades ago, hope he's enjoying the title if he's still alive. He was the patent examiner in charge of class 17 in the patent office when I worked there in the '80s.

[Bluedog]

Anyone objective will agree with this ...despite knee-jerk reaction to the contrary:

It was absolutely the WRONG call to throw that pass on the last play... It only looked good (RESULTS ORIENTED MISTAKE) because it worked. Had he dropped (Renfrow) it there was no time left to kick a FG. If I recall when he caught it it left ONE second on the catch...meaning if he bobbles and drops... Game over. No FG!!! That's football 101. You run a play that doesn't take that long. If you don't have a play shorter than five seconds you kick the FG

Nick Saban agrees w me - he always preaches forget the RESULT and be PROCESS oriented. Sabah is famous for his process-oriented methodology. Coach K says the same in a sense . Just play D and the result will work itself out. And Nick Saban is WAY more successful than Dabo Swinney ever will be.

I heard an NFL analyst say exactly what I am saying. He said Dabo was so LUCKY that play worked other-wise it would go in the annals as a top 5 worst play call ever in the history of football ... For the same reason I said ... It was way too close (one freakin' second for gosh sakes???????) to eliminating your FG chance. Odds are if the catch is missed the ball falls to the ground and time expires. Several guys on radio said same thing.

I also thought it was absurd how slowly Clemson was playing when they were on the 30 yard line, seemingly settling for the long FG (which was no gimme and would only send it to OT). They wasted 25 seconds when they had TOs for no good reason. The commentators even mentioned it was odd. The following 3-4 plays had to go basically perfectly for them to win at that point rather than allowing themselves several more opportunities at the TD and the win. Obviously, it worked out for them, but I'm sure they'd rather have had first and goal at the 2 with 3 chances to win it rather than one. But worked out for them! I liken it to Joe Maddon's decisions in Game 7 (although Maddon's were much worse)...A win erases all those questions, but those questions would have been loud if it didn't work out (particularly for the Cubs...)

[CDu]

The risk is they don't call pass interference if the offense scores. If you look at the TD that won the game, the receiver that cut left to "rub" may have been held by the DB or it could have been a pick. My guess is the refs made the decision to let the game be decided by the players.

Actually, if the offense scores, it doesn't matter whether they call pass interference. The point is to interfere so much that the pass can't be completed. Like, tackle all of the receivers immediately.

Having said that, I totally get why Saban didn't do that. He has an elite defense. Yes, Clemson was rolling. But you trust your elite defensive players to make the play there. The field is short, which makes it (in theory) harder to complete a pass. On top of that, you know that it has to be a quick pass play or run in order to have enough time left for a FG try. So you rely on your defense to win you the game.

Committing intentional penalties doesn't get you the win. It just prolongs the game. And considering that Clemson had largely been playing better than Alabama in the last 25 minutes of the game, I can understand the desire not to hand Clemson overtime. They played for the outright win. It didn't work. But playing for overtime wouldn't necessarily have worked either. At best, that's a 50/50 proposition.

[DukieInKansas]

I think I have a very happy nephew. Way to go, Clemson.

Texted with him later and he was very happy. His picture on the field after the game is with a very big smile!

[Wander]

The thing is, as you know, overtime isn't an amazing prize to be had.

This. This is a common fallacy fans and ESPN analysts make when talking about whether to foul while up 3 at the end of a college basketball game, too. The whole "well, if you don't foul, you can't lose, because the most they'll get is 3 points to tie the game." Um, false. You can lose in overtime when they tie the game. Losing in overtime is just as bad as losing in regulation.

Instead of viewing the last play as "that was a screw up because if the receiver drops the ball the game might be over," we should view it as "the coach decided to go for the win instead of the tie, except this is even better than a typical 4th down decision of that type because you have a chance of getting another play if it doesn't work."

[killerleft]

Anyone objective will agree with this ...despite knee-jerk reaction to the contrary:

It was absolutely the WRONG call to throw that pass on the last play... It only looked good (RESULTS ORIENTED MISTAKE) because it worked. Had he dropped (Renfrow) it there was no time left to kick a FG. If I recall when he caught it it left ONE second on the catch...meaning if he bobbles and drops... Game over. No FG!!! That's football 101. You run a play that doesn't take that long. If you don't have a play shorter than five seconds you kick the FG

Nick Saban agrees w me - he always preaches forget the RESULT and be PROCESS oriented. Sabah is famous for his process-oriented methodology. Coach K says the same in a sense . Just play D and the result will work itself out. And Nick Saban is WAY more successful than Dabo Swinney ever will be.

I heard an NFL analyst say exactly what I am saying. He said Dabo was so LUCKY that play worked other-wise it would go in the annals as a top 5 worst play call ever in the history of football ... For the same reason I said ... It was way too close (one freakin' second for gosh sakes???????) to eliminating your FG chance. Odds are if the catch is missed the ball falls to the ground and time expires. Several guys on radio said same thing.

Shocked the announcers didn't mention that. But then again these are ESPN guys who rail a guy for tripping while praising a guy (Clemson's Boulware) who chokes opponents and admits the whole Clemson defense 'grabs opponents nuts' all year long. . It's a whole team of Chris Paul's!!! I cringe every time someone says anything positive about Ben "I CHOKE people" Boulware. Dude is an Azshwole

I guess it depends on whether you want a chance to win it then and there. Somewhere along the line you'll have to win it. A shot from the one seems pretty reasonable to me.

[DukieInKansas]

I have a rules question. On an onside kick, when can the receiving team come toward the ball? I thougth they could move once the ball is kicked. They sure didn't seem to make an attempt to get to the ball. (Not that I think it would have changed the outcome but I found that curious.)

[moonpie23]

I have a rules question. On an onside kick, when can the receiving team come toward the ball? I thougth they could move once the ball is kicked. They sure didn't seem to make an attempt to get to the ball. (Not that I think it would have changed the outcome but I found that curious.)

i noticed that as well......i was wondering if they were all just hesitant to even touch it....

regardless, game over

[Tom B.]

Great point. Now that you mention it, I lean towards believing Dabo would've gone for it again.

The thing is, as you know, overtime isn't an amazing prize to be had. It's a roughly 50/50 game or maybe roughly 45/55 if one believes Bama is the better team and could assert itself as such.

On the game-winning play, Clemson probably felt they had upwards of an 80% chance to score. This was their best goal-line play, saved in the pocket, for such situations. Clemson had already seen the referees allowing a rub play previously in the game. This was their great QB Watson throwing to their sure-handed receiver who plays great against Bama. Yeah, you definitely take the 80% chance to win and risk the small chance that the clock would run out if something goes wrong.

Now, if that play didn't score and there was 1-2 sec left on the clock, Clemson still had in their pocket their second-best goal-line play for such a situation. It may not score at an 80% rate like the previous play, BUT it probably scores better than 50% or 45%, especially since Watson would have the option to run as well on the final play of the game.

So yeah, I believe Dabo would've gone for it again.


Dabo said after the game that if they hadn't scored the TD when they did, they'd have kicked the field goal on the next play and gone to overtime.

Now, that's what he said after the game was over. Would he have made that same decision in the heat of the moment? Who knows....

[OldPhiKap]

So I didn't see any mention of rioting in Clemson, SC last night. Cars turned over, burned? Anything? Do Clemson students just not care?

Clemson fans are very passionate. Many a cow was tipped last night, my friend.

[dukelifer]

DeShaun Watson just made himself A LOT of money last night/this morning. The season didn't go smoothly for him, and it was looking like he might fall to a second-day pick. Now, as a Bears fan, I'm trying to decide whether or not I want my team to take him at #3.

The kid has the arm to make all the throws, the athleticism to make plays with his legs or extend plays in/out of the pocket, and the toughness to fight through several big hits to still make big plays. The confidence to take that team down the field in the final minutes for the win.

I have no idea how his skills will translate- but he is a winner, extremely tough and from all accounts a hard worker. He has above average arm strength but needs to be a little more accurate on the short throws. He may not be a NFL star from the get go- but he is definitely a good pick for some struggling team.

[dukelifer]

Clemson fans are very passionate. Many a cow was tipped last night, my friend.

they can get one every 36 years- that sounds about right to me ;)

[Olympic Fan]

ESPN just posted their way-too-early 2017 preseason ACC football rankings.

http://www.espn.com/blog/acc/post/_/id/97877/accs-way-too-early-2017-power-rankings-florida-state-aims-high

They have Florida State at the top, followed by Clemson, Miami and Louisville in that order.

I guess that makes Miami the early favorite in the Coastal (ESPN doesn't break the rankings down by division). They also like Virginia Tech and Georgia Tech.

Duke comes in at No. 10 -- and fifth in the Coastal ... ahead of No. 11 UNC and No. 14 Virginia.

Personally, I know I an biased, but I think Duke is being undervalued. Coming off a season where injuries decimated the team and adding he strongest redshirt class in modern Duke history and owning the best (proven) QB in the Coastal, I think the Devils are real contenders in the division. I think they are giving Miami and Virginia Tech too much love for teams that lost a lot, including their effective QBs. Same with Georgia Tech -- they beat us by a hair last year in Atlanta and lost their veteran QB.

Obviously, any of these teams MIGHT come up with a talented newcomer at QB (VPI is in the running for Notre Dame's Zaire), still until they are proven ...

PS ESPN also has a story (which I can't link for some reason) in which Dabo Swinney argues what I said in my first post in this thread -- that the ACC was the best football conference this season and it's time the media acknowledge that. Andrea Adelson, ho wrote the article, seems to agree -- she lays out the relevant records ... the ACC was 9-3 in bowls, 10-4 vs. the SEC, 6-2 vs. the Big Ten an 17-9 vs. the P5.

[uh_no]

Personally, I know I an biased, but I think Duke is being undervalued. Coming off a season where injuries decimated the team and adding he strongest redshirt class in modern Duke history and owning the best (proven) QB in the Coastal, I think the Devils are real contenders in the division. I think they are giving Miami and Virginia Tech too much love for teams that lost a lot, including their effective QBs. Same with Georgia Tech -- they beat us by a hair last year in Atlanta and lost their veteran QB.


Congratulations! You've done more thinking about this than any of the writers who actually voted on it did :D

I would guess that none of these guys went so far as to look at any of the scores of any duke games this year, or even who they beat....let alone who they redshirted and what the team composition is.....

[elvis14]

Sorry about the ribbing. Just couldn't help it. :o

And I am a very happy Clemson/ACC fan today. Huge congrats. We kept a couple of our friends out of cardiac trouble last PM/early AM (we'd like to believe :o) with some texting late in the game and will be contacting one of my former cardiac patients this AM who moved to Florida last year to see if he survived the last Clemson drive.

Now, if we could only get the Clemson MBB team to win in chappaheeya...

Doc, when you stop ribbing me, I'll be worried that you're mad at me or something and I'll have to wander in to Rex to try and fix it!

That whole thing where Clemson's hoops team never wins at UNCheat....argh, just argh. Maybe that's one of the reasons I don't follow Clemson hoops (not since I was in school there 25 years ago and we were decent). I couldn't tell you 2 guys on the Clemson basketball team right now.

[OldPhiKap]

Doc, when you stop ribbing me, I'll be worried that you're mad at me or something and I'll have to wander in to Rex to try and fix it!

That whole thing where Clemson's hoops team never wins at UNCheat...argh, just argh. Maybe that's one of the reasons I don't follow Clemson hoops (not since I was in school there 25 years ago and we were decent). I couldn't tell you 2 guys on the Clemson basketball team right now.

Clemson hoops is on the rise, may be time to check them out.

But Clemson winning in CH is a sign of the Apocalypse. At this point I would be scared if it happened.

[elvis14]

they can get one every 3 - 6 years- that sounds about right to me ;)

You forgot the dash between the 3 and 6, I fixed it above :-)

[wilson]

So I didn't see any mention of rioting in Clemson, SC last night. Cars turned over, burned? Anything? Do Clemson students just not care?


Clemson fans are very passionate. Many a cow was tipped last night, my friend.http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/18442375/tigers-fans-celebrate-title-clemson-sc

[budwom]

Congratulations! You've done more thinking about this than any of the writers who actually voted on it did :D

I would guess that none of these guys went so far as to look at any of the scores of any duke games this year, or even who they beat...let alone who they redshirted and what the team composition is....

I think Duke could indeed be pretty good next year, but we have to get more physical (which is possible given the youth for some of our prospects). We've gotten manhandled by Pitt several years in a row,
Miami was a lot tougher, too.......though I agree they both lose very good QBs. I think it has to be pretty clear to Cut where we fell short this year, and now he has eight months to work on it.

[jimsumner]

Some good points about last night's game.

But before I accept any of them as valid, I'm calling for a five-minute video review, with optional biceps-flexing.

[AustinDevil]

This. This is a common fallacy fans and ESPN analysts make when talking about whether to foul while up 3 at the end of a college basketball game, too. The whole "well, if you don't foul, you can't lose, because the most they'll get is 3 points to tie the game." Um, false. You can lose in overtime when they tie the game. Losing in overtime is just as bad as losing in regulation.

Instead of viewing the last play as "that was a screw up because if the receiver drops the ball the game might be over," we should view it as "the coach decided to go for the win instead of the tie, except this is even better than a typical 4th down decision of that type because you have a chance of getting another play if it doesn't work."

Perhaps you are watching different announcers, but when I see this opinion given out, it tends to be that they are recommending a foul on the floor, not a foul in the act of shooting a 3-pointer. A foul on the floor will either give the other team an inbounds play, a 1-and-1, or 2 free throws, meaning that they cannot score three points unless they get a crazy rebound and putback on the second free throw after the first is made (far more unlikely than a 3-point-shot being made).

[Reilly]

.. Andrea Adelson, ho wrote the article, seems to agree ...

As I understand it, Ms. Adelson is of fine, upstanding character, and this calumny should be retracted.

[SCMatt33]

Dabo said after the game that if they hadn't scored the TD when they did, they'd have kicked the field goal on the next play and gone to overtime.

Now, that's what he said after the game was over. Would he have made that same decision in the heat of the moment? Who knows...

I tend to believe Dabo here. After the early 4th down miss, he kept any gambling instincts in check (see quick kick). Additionally, Clemson had tons of momentum. Bama's defense was gassed and their offense only moved the ball in the second half twice (once on a total blown coverage and the other with the help of a trick play).

[rthomas]

So I didn't see any mention of rioting in Clemson, SC last night. Cars turned over, burned? Anything? Do Clemson students just not care?


Clemson fans are very passionate. Many a cow was tipped last night, my friend.


http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/18442375/tigers-fans-celebrate-title-clemson-sc

Indeed:


Police had to chase one nekkid fan off the planetarium's sun dial soon after the game ended.

[wavedukefan70s]

I went to bed at halftime.jr told me .if it isnt oregon,Dallas or Duke hes not watching it.so we played madden till he passed out.
Seriously the only way this could work out for me is.if clemson was disqualified after winning it all.

[Duke79UNLV77]

When was the last time the ACC had a solid case for best football conference? When was the last time the SEC didn't have a reasonable case for best football conference?

[Troublemaker]

The sportsbooks got crushed by Clemson's win (http://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/id/18445588/clemson-tigers-victory-crushes-las-vegas-sportsbooks) (ESPN)

Props to Joe Q. Public on this one.

[CDu]

When was the last time the ACC had a solid case for best football conference? When was the last time the SEC didn't have a reasonable case for best football conference?

It probably hasn't happened in decades, if ever before. FSU was dominant in the 90s, but we didn't add Va Tech and Miami until after FSU had faded. And by the time FSU rebounded to prominence, Miami and VaTech had faded. We obviously had national champions in Clemson, FSU (thrice now), and Georgia Tech. But in general the conference hasn't had multiple truly top-tier teams very often.

It wasn't always that the SEC was the top dog though. 15-20 years ago the SEC was a bit down, as Florida basically ran over the conference in the 90s, with Tennessee sneaking in occasionally. Then in the 2000s Auburn and LSU got really good, and Alabama and Georgia moved solidly into the second tier. And in the 2010s, the rest of the SEC West got into the act, with the SEC East fading a bit.

[Olympic Fan]

It probably hasn't happened in decades, if ever before. FSU was dominant in the 90s, but we didn't add Va Tech and Miami until after FSU had faded. And by the time FSU rebounded to prominence, Miami and VaTech had faded. We obviously had national champions in Clemson, FSU (thrice now), and Georgia Tech. But in general the conference hasn't had multiple truly top-tier teams very often.

It wasn't always that the SEC was the top dog though. 15-20 years ago the SEC was a bit down, as Florida basically ran over the conference in the 90s, with Tennessee sneaking in occasionally. Then in the 2000s Auburn and LSU got really good, and Alabama and Georgia moved solidly into the second tier. And in the 2010s, the rest of the SEC West got into the act, with the SEC East fading a bit.

Agreed ... not sure there was ever a time when the ACC was clearly the best football conference, although there may have been a year or two when the stars might have aligned and the ACC was at the top. Maybe 1990 when Georgia Tech won a share of the national title, but Clemson and Virginia were at that level (Virginia was actually ranked higher than the other two until All-ACC QB Shawn Moore was hurt late). Maryland was decent. UNC had a winning record (against a weak schedule). NC State was a bowl team (bowls were not quite so common). Duke -- one year removed from its ACC ttile and bowl trip -- was still dangerous. Only Wake was down.

The ACC MIGHT have been the best conference in 1990 ... funny, but FSU arrived two years later as the league was slipping and the 'Noles dominated for almost a decade.

But the SEC rise to dominance is, as CDu mentioned, a much more recent development. The SEC has been the best for about a decade, but no so much beyond that. I'm not saying it was a weak league in the 1980s and 1990s, but it was no better than the other power conferences (which included the Big East for much of that period -- especially after the BE added Miami and Virginia Tech).

Indeed, I would argue that in the late 1970s to the mid-1980s, the Big 8 was the nation's best conference as Oklahoma and Nebraska battled for supremecy. That duo was supplanted in the mid-80s by the FSU-Miami pair -- they would battle for supremecy (with a few brief challenges) until the end of the century.

[CDu]

Agreed ... not sure there was ever a time when the ACC was clearly the best football conference, although there may have been a year or two when the stars might have aligned and the ACC was at the top. Maybe 1990 when Georgia Tech won a share of the national title, but Clemson and Virginia were at that level (Virginia was actually ranked higher than the other two until All-ACC QB Shawn Moore was hurt late). Maryland was decent. UNC had a winning record (against a weak schedule). NC State was a bowl team (bowls were not quite so common). Duke -- one year removed from its ACC ttile and bowl trip -- was still dangerous. Only Wake was down.

The ACC MIGHT have been the best conference in 1990 ... funny, but FSU arrived two years later as the league was slipping and the 'Noles dominated for almost a decade.

But the SEC rise to dominance is, as CDu mentioned, a much more recent development. The SEC has been the best for about a decade, but no so much beyond that. I'm not saying it was a weak league in the 1980s and 1990s, but it was no better than the other power conferences (which included the Big East for much of that period -- especially after the BE added Miami and Virginia Tech).

Indeed, I would argue that in the late 1970s to the mid-1980s, the Big 8/Big 12 was the nation's best conference as Oklahoma and Nebraska battled for supremecy. That duo was supplanted in the mid-80s by the FSU-Miami pair -- they would battle for supremecy (with a few brief challenges) until the end of the century.

Yeah the Big East had a stretch in there with Miami and Va Tech playing well and West Virginia being pretty good behind them in the late-90s/early 2000s. The ACC just missed the window on them. A few years sooner and the ACC (with FSU still at/near the top) might have qualified as the best.

The Big 8 had some really good stretches with OU, Texas, Nebraska, Colorado, and Texas A&M being good to great teams over the 70s-90s.

For a while, though, the independents threw a wrench into things. Miami, FSU, Penn St, Notre Dame, and some others were all independent for long stretches prior to the 1990s. So the title of "best conference" was a bit less relevant.

[Wander]

The moment that the SEC really established itself as the top conference was the BCS title game between Florida and Ohio State in the 2006-2007 season. Ohio State was widely agreed upon as the best team in the country, and Florida's "upset" sparked a ridiculous string of SEC power for the rest of the BCS era.

The interesting thing is that there was serious talk of having that title game be an Ohio State-Michigan rematch. If that had happened, how long would it have taken everyone to come to a consensus that the SEC was superior to the Big 10? This brings up the larger point that there are just too few games between conferences to really be sure about any of this stuff.

The ACC was really let down in that SEC power era by Miami's mediocrity. It's crazy that they haven't won an ACC division yet (while Wake Forest and Duke have).

[Bob Green]

The Big 8 had some really good stretches with OU, Texas, Nebraska, Colorado, and Texas A&M being good to great teams over the 70s-90s.



I'm going to pick a nit...

Texas and Texas A&M were never in the Big 8. They were in the Southwest Conference until 1996 when they joined the new Big 12.

[CDu]

I'm going to pick a nit...

Texas and Texas A&M were never in the Big 8. They were in the Southwest Conference until 1996 when they joined the new Big 12.

Yeah, I edited that shortly after I posted, apparently not before you saw it and responded. The Big 8/Big 12. They largely replaced Colorado and to a lesser degree Nebraska in the really good team discussion.

[sagegrouse]

Doc, when you stop ribbing me, I'll be worried that you're mad at me or something and I'll have to wander in to Rex to try and fix it!

That whole thing where Clemson's hoops team never wins at UNCheat...argh, just argh. Maybe that's one of the reasons I don't follow Clemson hoops (not since I was in school there 25 years ago and we were decent). I couldn't tell you 2 guys on the Clemson basketball team right now.

I'll give you two hints: Mr. Blossom and Mr. Game.

[alteran]

I have a rules question. On an onside kick, when can the receiving team come toward the ball? I thougth they could move once the ball is kicked. They sure didn't seem to make an attempt to get to the ball. (Not that I think it would have changed the outcome but I found that curious.)

Receiving team, 5 yards. Kicking team, 10 yards.

Edit, whoops, answered wrong question. I'm pretty sure that once the ball is kicked they can move however they want, but they can't touch the ball before 5 yards.

[DukieInKansas]

Receiving team, 5 yards. Kicking team, 10 yards.

Edit, whoops, answered wrong question. I'm pretty sure that once the ball is kicked they can move however they want, but they can't touch the ball before 5 yards.

Thank you. I was going with the kicking team can't touch before 10 yards but wasn't clear on receiving team limitations. I just couldn't figure out why they didn't react. I'm glad they didn't as I was seing Miami-Duke all over again. :D

[Devilwin]

Alabama won't be able to walk the dog on Clemson like they did on Washington.. I am picking Clemson to bring it home this time.

Told ya!! Congrats, Tigers!

[arnie]

Agreed ... not sure there was ever a time when the ACC was clearly the best football conference, although there may have been a year or two when the stars might have aligned and the ACC was at the top. Maybe 1990 when Georgia Tech won a share of the national title, but Clemson and Virginia were at that level (Virginia was actually ranked higher than the other two until All-ACC QB Shawn Moore was hurt late). Maryland was decent. UNC had a winning record (against a weak schedule). NC State was a bowl team (bowls were not quite so common). Duke -- one year removed from its ACC ttile and bowl trip -- was still dangerous. Only Wake was down.

The ACC MIGHT have been the best conference in 1990 ... funny, but FSU arrived two years later as the league was slipping and the 'Noles dominated for almost a decade.

But the SEC rise to dominance is, as CDu mentioned, a much more recent development. The SEC has been the best for about a decade, but no so much beyond that. I'm not saying it was a weak league in the 1980s and 1990s, but it was no better than the other power conferences (which included the Big East for much of that period -- especially after the BE added Miami and Virginia Tech).

Indeed, I would argue that in the late 1970s to the mid-1980s, the Big 8 was the nation's best conference as Oklahoma and Nebraska battled for supremecy. That duo was supplanted in the mid-80s by the FSU-Miami pair -- they would battle for supremecy (with a few brief challenges) until the end of the century.

None of this can be true - I've listened to Mike and Mike a few minutes driving every morning for past few weeks. One of the Mike's says Big 10 is best conference because they had 4 teams ranked in Top 10 at end of regular season. Using that and other Midwest biased logic, Big 10 has been best conference year in, year out since football invented.

[elvis14]

Re-watched the last play a few times since there seems to be pick/rub discussions. Here's what I saw. Leggett, the TE lined up outside of Renfrow. When the ball is snapped, Leggett runs the slant/drag and Renfrow runs a shallow out. Alabama is playing man to man defense. When the ball is snapped and Leggett starts the slant/drag route his defender jumps directly in front of him, contact ensues. Leggett does not in any way try to alter his route to avoid the impending contact. He basically falls into the guy. The man that's supposed to guarding Renfrow goes behind his teammate, who dove right in the path of Leggett. As a result Renfrow's defender had to go around the collision and is enable to get to Renfrow before Watson completes the championship winning throw. Bama has no room to complain here. Their defender jumped Leggett's route putting himself between his teammate and Renfrow, with our without the collision. Reminds me of a high pick where the defender goes below the screen and the they with the ball just shoots and open 3. The one thing that really stuck out to me, however is that Leggett didn't contact/pick Renfrow's defender, he fell into his own defender (who had jumped the route, and jumped right out of where the ball was thrown).

What a beautiful ending to a amazing comeback for the Clemson Tigers. A few interesting stats:

Saban is now 95-1 when leading by double digits in the 4th quarter of a game
Bama gave up 22 points in the 4th quarter all season, before last night.
Clemson scored 21 4th quarter points

[DukieInKansas]

Picture as requested.
7066

Nephew celebrating Clemson's victory. Happy or scared? You decide.

[jv001]

Picture as requested.
7066

Nephew celebrating Clemson's victory. Happy or scared? You decide.

Happy for the Tigers and the ACC(except the cheats). Also happy for your nephew. GoDuke!

[Olympic Fan]

Happy for the Tigers and the ACC(except the cheats). Also happy for your nephew. GoDuke!

Hey, the ACC won a national title, had the best bowl record and the Cheats lost (to a team playing without its best player).

To me, that's all good.

[CDu]

Hey, the ACC won a national title, had the best bowl record and the Cheats lost (to a team playing without its best player).

To me, that's all good.

Not pitchforkable, but truer words have seldom (if ever) been written.

[Newton_14]

A day late and a dollar short here but wanted to add my thoughts. Like Mr Green I was pulling hard for Clemson. I felt they should have won it last year. So was very glad to see Clemson finish the job this time. Well done!

Second, as others noted, classic game. One of the best NC games ever in any era. I thought Dabo had made a huge mistake in not calling timeout after getting the first down with 40 seconds left. It almost bit him in the butt, and getting the TD with 1 second left was too close for comfort for me, but it ensured that Bama virtually had no chance of winning. Had that been Duke and Cutcliffe I would have been losing my mind and likely had a heart attack before the final pass from Jones for the NC winning TD (Dream big Devil Fans. Dream big. That will be us one day, not Clemson or FSU)

The 2015 Miami/Duke game was certainly on my mind with that one second left on the clock, and Dabo's play call there is exactly what I would have done and I think that the onside kick in the manner chosen is the absolute best chance to preserve the win. Even if Bama recovers the onside kick, either the clock runs out or they get one chance at a Hail Mary pass. And as long as Aaron Rodgers isn't the QB I like my chances defending the Hail Mary. :)

So congrats Clemson and all hail the ACC the new NCAA Football Power. :)