MBB: Duke A Lot, Georgia Tech A Little, Post-Game Thread

[pfrduke]

That's the team we all expected to see.

[dukebluesincebirth]

That felt GOOD. I feel refreshed. Get well soon Coach!

[wavedukefan70s]

Good win.

[Pghdukie]

This may have been aired earlier, but, why was Jeter in street clothes ?

[tbyers11]

This may have been aired earlier, but, why was Jeter in street clothes ?

Pregame radio reported that he "twisted" his back in practice

[Furniture]

Grayson back. K keeps them guessing as always. Nice play K!!

[Native]

That was fun.

[Troublemaker]

Awesome game. Two immediate thoughts. Very happy for Grayson, both from the perspective that he's back and the perspective that we probably have a better appreciation for him now after the VaTech game. Luke is probably the better scorer, but Grayson is still the best all-around player on this team -- scoring, getting teammates involved, and defense. And we missed him dearly last game.

My other immediate thought is I'm glad this game happened under Coach K's watch. A lot of our fans have a lot of weird thoughts about our Hall-of-Fame coach, and he probably answered some questions for them with this performance.

[DukeWarhead]

Mmmm. Gimmie s'more of that. The bar has been set. I want to see that again, again, and again. Full throttle.

[CDu]

As discussed pre-game, Tech is not good. Glad to see us illustrate it rather than letting them hang around like UNC did. That was fun!

[6th Man]

Awesome to see a variety of things. So nice to see Giles play some minutes and show signs. I also thought Allen was great on the court. In particular when he had an open layup and dished it to Giles for a dunk. Allen as a facilitator is what this team needs. Should be a confidence booster for many.

[Bob Green]

First and foremost, the team responded! They put the VT game in the rear view mirror and played with focused intensity.

A real coming out party for Harry Giles with a double double of 10 points and 12 rebounds. He still has a lot of development left to be achieved especially on defense but he looked good out there tonight, he was a part of the flow.

Marques Bolden also looked more comfortable on the court.

Seven players scored in double figures.

[DukeDevil]

I want to say that, in his time sitting, it seems that Grayson made some big decisions to change his attitude and approach. Granted, it's easy to be happy and positive when you're up 50, but throughout the game he was doing things like reaching for players that weren't in the huddle, cheering every other person's plays, he helped up an opposing player after they collided to the floor. It seems to me, from this N of 1, that he's making a conscious decision to play with a better attitude and positivity.

As for his play, working as the PG and distributor was fantastic to see. He's great at it and as he's successfully distributing it opens up better lanes for him to drive when he decides to do so, rather than him dropping his head and forcing it. I'm really happy for him having a great game...I think he really needed it after being dumped on by everyone for the past 2 weeks.

[duke4ever19]

unc fans after looking at the score . . .


7015

[Duke79UNLV77]

So, by the transitive property, we would beat UNC by 65, right?

[Furniture]

7 players in double figures.
Double double for Harry
24 assists (7 for Grayson)
4 threes for Matt.

[duketaylor]

That was just refreshing to see the team we thought we had. More Giles is just scary; he had fun, especially after completing a double-double in limited minutes. Plus, they were all trying to get him more involved-you can tell he's well-liked.

GO DUKE!!

Good luck, Coach!!

[TKG]

A very talented and motivated team beat the crap out of a young, inexeprienced and much less talented team.



Bah, humbug!! 😜

[kAzE]

Holy crap we shot the ball ridiculously well. They gave us a lot of open looks, but EVERYONE was hitting.

Coulda used a few of those threes in the VT game, guys :)

[jwillfan]

So many things went well - Luke barely played in the 2nd half. At one point in the first however I wondered if the 4-'guard' lineup we used was the first time we'd seen it - Luke, Grayson, Matt and Frank were all in with Amile in the middle. I know we're close when Jayson plays the perimeter but it's not exactly the same. And while it felt effective I know some of the better at stats folks here will let me know that the +/- or some other stat wasn't so good - but my point is that I don't think we'd seen it.

Out.

(Former) JWillFan (until he stops being a jerk)

[Devilwin]

Harry looked great, as did all the freshmen. Great game by everyone. Good luck Coach, see ya in February. Jeff will do a great job. Hope this impending snowstorm don't keep BC away..

[duke4ever19]

Holy crap we shot the ball ridiculously well.

Coulda used a few of those threes in the VT game, guys :)

That game poked all sorts of holes in the "We have too many good shooters to have a true off night" theory. I was starting to buy into it before that game.

Of course, Grayson was on the bench, so there's that.

[OZ]

It is really nice to see that in spite of all the external (and perhaps some internal) noise, Coach K still does it his way.

[duke79]

It is really nice to see that in spite of all the external (and perhaps some internal) noise, Coach K still does it his way.

LOL.....agree with you here. I admit I was surprised to see GA play tonight. I was expecting, at least, a 2 or 3 game suspension. I may be completely off base with this thought........but....I wonder if bringing GA back after just a one-game suspension was a great big "FU" by Coack K to all those "experts", "haters" and "naysayers" in the sports world who reacted like GA had murdered someone and were calling for his head. This thought did cross through my mind. Am I the only one?

[kAzE]

Harry Giles was an unbelievable difference maker tonight. He still makes some really boneheaded mistakes, but he was grabbing rebounds from the top of the backboard and tipping every pass that came to his man . . .

If he's back healthy for real, he's going to be in the race for ACC player of the year.

That said . . . Grayson was my MOTM. He was the biggest factor in our incredible first half. Tonight, I think we saw a transformation in Grayson Allen. He's really looking to pass. I love this!! He was awesome getting in the paint and distributing the ball tonight. I like that he also saves his body playing this style.

Our offense is ridiculous. Seriously.

[duke4ever19]

ESPN posted this guy's opinion of the Grayson Allen situation to the website. Hey, he's also a Maryland grad!


7016

[KandG]

Exhale (for now). Just a fabulous bounce-back game against a totally overmatched opponent.

Let's get the very minimal bad (or not so great) in this game out of the way quickly. Giles is still a bit raw and made a lot of defensive mistakes. Tatum's jumper still looks weirdly broken and he still seems to need a runway to the basket to score, rather than scoring off the flow of passes around the perimeter.

Otherwise...wow. The commitment to passing and getting everyone involved was on a different level. Grayson's presence was obviously a big catalyst (his sheer explosiveness off the dribble and playmaking instincts aren't matched by anyone else on the team), but making the extra pass quickly became contagious.

A few people in earlier threads lamented how this team hadn't looked like a world-beater since the LSU game, but what's forgotten about that game was that a lot of the first half margin in that game was built off straight line drives by clearly superior Duke players like Grayson & Frank putting their heads down -- Duke had "only" six assists in the first half of that game. I liked the early dominance that was established tonight much better: 12 assists in the first half, 11 of 18 3 pointers, 3 players in double figures (Grayson, Luke, Frank) and Amile with 8 points.

(that's also a significant contrast to five 3 pointers and 8 assists against VA Tech for an *entire game*)

Mentioned Harry's rawness above, but a lot of the mistakes were mistakes of trying a little too hard and being engaged at a different level: I was so happy for him bouncing around the court, catching lobs, banging against other bodies, hoovering rebounds, showing good chemistry with Jayson. Tonight he truly started to look like a number 1 draft pick.

Speaking of bouncy, thought this was Bolden's best game of the season as well. Looked much more engaged on defense, getting up on his man, helping out on switches all the way to the perimeter, recovered weil on pick and rolls.

Guards were all great, including Matt. I like Frank getting clean looks on catch and shoot jumpers rather than trying so hard to create on his own. Luke didn't miss a three pointer for what seemed like an entire half then seemed to barely touch the ball for a while -- no problem, because so many others were shooting well too. Grayson was all business and his perpetual motion on both ends just broke the spirit of Tech.

Despite the issues with Jayson's shooting, he looks like our best defensive player. His strength and wingspan are really disruptive. When he puts together a total two-way game that includes his jumper falling cleanly, it's going to be a scary thing.

Good luck with the surgery and get well quickly, Coach K. In the meantime, will be fun to watch Coach Capel manage the continued growth of this group.

[gofurman]

That game (VT) poked all sorts of holes in the "We have too many good shooters to have a true off night" theory. I was starting to buy into it before that game.

Of course, Grayson was on the bench, so there's that.

True. But we lost VT because of defense. Not so much because of offense. Vt was running layup drills

[Rich]

It's over


...for the rest of the ACC.

But seriously, just as the VTech game was one game, the GTech game is one game. Let's remain level-headed. Tons of potential, but lots of work to do on the defensive end. It did feel good, though.

[gofurman]

ESPN posted this guy's opinion of the Grayson Allen situation to the website. Hey, he's also a Maryland grad!


7016

He's a poker commentator for ESPN

[SkyBrickey]

Loved the rotation tonight - let's stick with it.

Loved the way we shared the ball.

Giles and Bolden will continue to make big strides over the next few games.

We are going to be an absolute load in March.

[duke4ever19]

True. But we lost VT because of defense. Not so much because of offense. Vt was running layup drills

You're correct. I took a look at the team stats. VT's field goal percentage was 55%. 61.5% from three (8-13).

They put spread the ball around too. They got 18 assists to our 8.

[Newton_14]

That's the team we all expected to see.
Agree. Indeed. Concur. Ditto.

That was refreshing and first of all I am just happy for the guys. That had to feel good to them. I was very excited to see Harry get the start and you can see the improvement in him game over game. Also the best Bolden has looked game wise and physically in a long time, maybe all year. It looks like he is finally getting healthy. We showed our many weapons offensively tonight. Another positive was how well Grayson looked mentally and basketball wise.

Just a lot of positives to take away from this game. Hopefully this is the start of an upward swing for them as a team. That 8 man rotation is the most talented group in the Country. If those 8 guys can stay healthy from here on out they will have a chance to develop into the team we all expected. Yeah it was Gatech but outside of UNLV we just haven't dominate any team including the cupcake teams like that. Best performance of the year hands down.

Go Duke!

Best of luck to the GOAT in his surgery and recovery. Coming back for that first uncCheat game would be sweet.

[Doria]

Such a nice feeling to watch this game. Hopefully, it reminds the team of their goals, but also that games can be really fun. Great game!

[duke4ever19]

He's a poker commentator for ESPN

Yeah, I've seen his stuff, now that I look up his articles. He does write about more than poker, but I've never seen a tweet by him, especially on a college bball page.

I took notice of it because it wasn't from one of the typical college bball people (Goodman, Medcalf, Bilas, Lunardi, Fraschila etc.)

[CDu]

By my math, Duke players not named Tatum shot 15-24 from 3. Yeah, that will get it done. Hard to imagine that this team could have another gear, but Giles and Bolden are still working their way up. Of course we aren't going to shoot like this every night, but if the team stays healthy and incident-free our floor is going to be very high.

It looks like the frosh started to get the message on defense. Of course, when the other team is taking the ball out of the net to start each possession that helps our transition defense. And, of course, it helps playing a god-awful team like Tech. They played zone against a shaky-shooting UNC squad and the Heels shot themselves to a loss. Tech tried zone against us, and our shooters punished them relentlessly. And Tech simply doesn't have the talent to win or even compete in a shootout.

Fun, fun win. Saturday's game against BC should be more of the same. Let's not get too high and forget that some of our upcoming foes are actually good teams though. Because road games with FSU and Louisville are right around the corner.

[Utley]

When was the last time we beat an ACC team by 50+? ( or any ACC team beat another ACC team by 50+)?

Giles playing and Grayson thriving as point guard changes everything..

That's the starting five we've been waiting for.

[dukelifer]

By my math, Duke players not named Tatum shot 15-24 from 3. Yeah, that will get it done. Hard to imagine that this team could have another gear, but Giles and Bolden are still working their way up. Of course we aren't going to shoot like this every night, but if the team stays healthy and incident-free our floor is going to be very high.

It looks like the frosh started to get the message on defense. Of course, when the other team is taking the ball out of the net to start each possession that helps our transition defense. And, of course, it helps playing a god-awful team like Tech. They played zone against a shaky-shooting UNC squad and the Heels shot themselves to a loss. Tech tried zone against us, and our shooters punished them relentlessly. And Tech simply doesn't have the talent to win or even compete in a shootout.

Fun, fun win. Saturday's game against BC should be more of the same. Let's not get too high and forget that some of our upcoming foes are actually good teams though. Because road games with FSU and Louisville are right around the corner.
It is about developing good habits. The ball movement was much better tonight and K had Allen and Jackson push the ball down the court. The team made a nice step tonight. Lets see if they can keep it going.

[Duke79UNLV77]

So, by the transitive property, we would beat UNC by 65, right?

The transitive property, however, does not apply with respect to tonight's NC State-Va Tech game.

[MarkD83]

LOL....agree with you here. I admit I was surprised to see GA play tonight. I was expecting, at least, a 2 or 3 game suspension. I may be completely off base with this thought....but...I wonder if bringing GA back after just a one-game suspension was a great big "FU" by Coack K to all those "experts", "haters" and "naysayers" in the sports world who reacted like GA had murdered someone and were calling for his head. This thought did cross through my mind. Am I the only one?

Absolutely agree. In fact I think the entire performance tonight was "let's play like Duke and who gives a da** about what the rest of the world thinks. Complain all your want, rant and rave but at the end of the day expect to endure a beat down."

[Channing]

1. Harry rebounds with ferocity. He really goes after the ball.

2. If Matt is making 37% of open threes we are virtually unstoppable.

3. Bolden has all the tools and the athleticism. What a luxury. He seemed more relaxed in today's game

[El_Diablo]

unc fans after looking at the score . . .


7015

Also, Duke fans looking at the NC State score.

[jbay201]

Absolutely agree. In fact I think the entire performance tonight was "let's play like Duke and who gives a da** about what the rest of the world thinks. Complain all your want, rant and rave but at the end of the day expect to endure a beat down."

100% Agree! Can't wait to watch the BC game!

[kshepinthehouse]

1. Harry rebounds with ferocity. He really goes after the ball.

2. If Matt is making 37% of open threes we are virtually unstoppable.

3. Bolden has all the tools and the athleticism. What a luxury. He seemed more relaxed in today's game

I agree, if Matt Jones hits open threes we are the best team in the country. He's about our 6th or 7th option. Was nice to see Bolden make a few nice one on one moves in the post. If Giles can work a little more one on one moves and score the sky is the limit for this team. If they share the ball they are too talented to have really off nights.

[duke4ever19]

Also, Duke fans looking at the NC State score.

I don't look anything like Droopy dog, dadgumit.

[uh_no]

Aside from Giles, Bolden, Amile, Luke, Matt, Jayson, and Frank all having great games, the biggest take away for me was Grayson.

Anyone who thinks that 1 game suspension and revoking captaincy was not enough for an attitude adjustment by Grayson was not watching closely enough. His Gameplay, demeanor, interactions with teammates and even opponents were all so changed from how he has been all year I was amazed.


At one point he and a GT guy had a collision under GT's basket in the second half right before there was a timeout. Grayson went back and helped the guy up
Grayson nearly mauled Harry at one point when harry was suppsed out after a huge play (the alley oop?). I'm not sure I've seen him act so positively to a teammate all year
He barely looked to score early in the game. he was being a fantastic distributor, and he was rewarded with 7 assists. The team was massively rewarded by his patience. This unselfishness was embraced by the rest of the team as well, and it showed with phenomenal ball movement.
He was much more active off the ball than he had been. I'm not sure I remember him standing around tonight like I had in his past few games....which was especially bothersome since he often seemed to be pouting after a stretch of poor play.
He didn't go kamikaze on drives but for maybe once or twice. That type of controlled play is what we need. He can't amaze everyone in the country every play.


Ironically, it seemed after his captaincy, Grayson acted the leader on the floor that was expected of him all along....he got back to his "Let's Go" attitude from the title game rather than someone who let poor play turn him to the dark side.

The real test will be how he reacts to adversity of poor play, or a bad call, or the team losing...but what we saw tonight was definitely a change.

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

ESPN posted this guy's opinion of the Grayson Allen situation to the website. Hey, he's also a Maryland grad!


7016

It doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter.
Love,Ima

[Dukeford]

Where's DeLaurier?

[DukieInBrasil]

Where's DeLaurier?

in a walking boot. not sure if an announcement has been made.
Jeter "twisted his back", or something, and didn't dress for the game.

[Saratoga2]

First and foremost, the team responded! They put the VT game in the rear view mirror and played with focused intensity.

A real coming out party for Harry Giles with a double double of 10 points and 12 rebounds. He still has a lot of development left to be achieved especially on defense but he looked good out there tonight, he was a part of the flow.

Marques Bolden also looked more comfortable on the court.

Seven players scored in double figures.


What we are seeing is what coach K mentioned, we are in a development phase similar to late Oct or early Nov in most seasons. Giles and Bolden in particular need to make transitions to the speed and physicality of Div I ball. Tonight we saw both make continuing improvements with Harry's body control and activity showing up but also his lack of understanding of defense. He will learn quickly during the season. Marques showed his strength and shot blocking/altering capability. His touch on his shot needs refinement but what a luxury to have two freshmen of their size and capability. This has to be our tallest team in memory. Marques, Harry, Chase and Vrank along with Amile and Javin and our guards are very good sized as well.

[NashvilleDevil]

Caught the first 12 minutes. Was all I needed to see this was a much different team than the one that played Va. Tech. I will watch the game tomorrow to see the entire beat down but I like what I saw. I agree with whoever posted that Duke played with an attitude tonight that let the country and media (ESPN) know they do not care what is said. If this type of play continues look out college basketball.

[tbyers11]

Where's DeLaurier?

For the 4th game in a row Javin did not dress due to an ankle injury

[COYS]

That was a much-needed beat down. As others have noted, GaTech isn't good at all. But that doesn't make it any less of a relief to see the team respond by pummeling a bad opponent in Cameron. I know Jayson didn't shoot well from three, but I actually thought this was a fantastic game for him. All of his three point attempts were wide open (and therefore good shots, even if he missed them). He only took one long-ish two. He attacked the rim a lot more and passed really well. AND he was our best one on one defender, to my eyes. Amid the justifiable praise for Grayson and Harry, I thought Jayson deserved some praise. I hope he puts up similar shot charts from here on out . . . Well, with the addition of a few more makes from three.

[Newton_14]

Aside from Giles, Bolden, Amile, Luke, Matt, Jayson, and Frank all having great games, the biggest take away for me was Grayson.

Anyone who thinks that 1 game suspension and revoking captaincy was not enough for an attitude adjustment by Grayson was not watching closely enough. His Gameplay, demeanor, interactions with teammates and even opponents were all so changed from how he has been all year I was amazed.


At one point he and a GT guy had a collision under GT's basket in the second half right before there was a timeout. Grayson went back and helped the guy up
Grayson nearly mauled Harry at one point when harry was suppsed out after a huge play (the alley oop?). I'm not sure I've seen him act so positively to a teammate all year
He barely looked to score early in the game. he was being a fantastic distributor, and he was rewarded with 7 assists. The team was massively rewarded by his patience. This unselfishness was embraced by the rest of the team as well, and it showed with phenomenal ball movement.
He was much more active off the ball than he had been. I'm not sure I remember him standing around tonight like I had in his past few games...which was especially bothersome since he often seemed to be pouting after a stretch of poor play.
He didn't go kamikaze on drives but for maybe once or twice. That type of controlled play is what we need. He can't amaze everyone in the country every play.


Ironically, it seemed after his captaincy, Grayson acted the leader on the floor that was expected of him all along...he got back to his "Let's Go" attitude from the title game rather than someone who let poor play turn him to the dark side.

The real test will be how he reacts to adversity of poor play, or a bad call, or the team losing...but what we saw tonight was definitely a change.

Great post. I thought the same thing. I was really glad to see it. I would like to see more outward positive emotions ala the "lets go! lets go!" from the Championship game because I think that is good for him and healthy for him. Expend all that emotional energy via a positive outlet.

Really great insight in your post uh no.

Mark

[sagegrouse]

He's a poker commentator for ESPN

Norman Chad is the "Couch Slouch" in a weekly column in the WaPo and (I presume) elsewhere, which I really like. While a Terp, he also wrote, "No, I didn't get an education. I went to Maryland. All I got were parking tickets."

[devildeac]

This may have been aired earlier, but, why was Jeter in street clothes ?


Pregame radio reported that he "twisted" his back in practice

Of course, in the Duke FB/MBB injury tradition, it had to be his "lower" back. :rolleyes: and :)

[devildeac]

So, by the transitive property, we would beat UNC by 65, right?

I'd take that, but would settle for that magical score of 82-50. ;)

[devildeac]

He's a poker commentator for ESPN

Hmmm, another espn "employee" taking twitter shots at Duke and K. Yet another festering boil on the buttocks of life.

[devildeac]

It doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter.
Love,Ima

If ya smell what The RocK is cookin':


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChCckO_F0Ss

[CoachJ10]

In the wise words of #12 on Green Bay..."R E L A X...relax".

This team is running its own race...there is a lot of good basketball to come.

Also, hopefully all the Grayson pile-onners can show some humbleness and give him huge props for how he played and handled himself tonight. Was great to see.

[duke4ever19]

It doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter.
Love,Ima

As Jack says in The Importance of Being Earnest: "How can you sit there, calmly eating muffins when we are in this horrible trouble, I can't make out." :)

No, it doesn't ultimately matter, but I enjoy the theatre of it all and even a tempest in a teapot can be exciting.

[jv001]

Aside from Giles, Bolden, Amile, Luke, Matt, Jayson, and Frank all having great games, the biggest take away for me was Grayson.

Anyone who thinks that 1 game suspension and revoking captaincy was not enough for an attitude adjustment by Grayson was not watching closely enough. His Gameplay, demeanor, interactions with teammates and even opponents were all so changed from how he has been all year I was amazed.


At one point he and a GT guy had a collision under GT's basket in the second half right before there was a timeout. Grayson went back and helped the guy up
Grayson nearly mauled Harry at one point when harry was suppsed out after a huge play (the alley oop?). I'm not sure I've seen him act so positively to a teammate all year
He barely looked to score early in the game. he was being a fantastic distributor, and he was rewarded with 7 assists. The team was massively rewarded by his patience. This unselfishness was embraced by the rest of the team as well, and it showed with phenomenal ball movement.
He was much more active off the ball than he had been. I'm not sure I remember him standing around tonight like I had in his past few games...which was especially bothersome since he often seemed to be pouting after a stretch of poor play.
He didn't go kamikaze on drives but for maybe once or twice. That type of controlled play is what we need. He can't amaze everyone in the country every play.


Ironically, it seemed after his captaincy, Grayson acted the leader on the floor that was expected of him all along...he got back to his "Let's Go" attitude from the title game rather than someone who let poor play turn him to the dark side.

The real test will be how he reacts to adversity of poor play, or a bad call, or the team losing...but what we saw tonight was definitely a change.

I told yall that we missed our heart and soul in the VT game. Our "Charlie Hustle". I really liked the way Grayson began the game getting others involved. As Newt said, he used his emotion in a positive way. I'm hoping to see this the rest of this season. What a great game for the good guys. GoDuke!

[devildeac]

I hope the MOTM thread/voting includes a "team" and/or "K" options. ;)

[ChillinDuke]

Before I even read this thread, can we talk about body language for a second? Couldn't possibly have been better! Night and day!!!

Grayson was over-the-top engaged! Almost making a point to rack up assists. High fives, pointing at players, hugging players, even a little good natured celebrating himself. And he even looked like he moved to help a GT player after they clunked heads.

Just a superb showing. And the chemistry and leadership were there for the first time all year.

Absolutely thrilled after this one. And not because of the score.

- Chillin

[OldPhiKap]

Hmmm, another espn "employee" taking twitter shots at Duke and K. Yet another festering boil on the buttocks of life.

You can't count him as an ESPN commentator to be fair. He is a columnist who plays poker and does the humor commentary for the WSOP.

[LasVegas]

The best play of the game was the start of the 2nd half where Grayson ended up with the ball with no one around him under the hoop and he did a little underhand pass to Giles. Giles then threw it down. Tells you a lot about Grayson.

[Furniture]

2. If Matt is making 37% of open threes we are virtually unstoppable.


Matt shot 4 of 7 from downtown Durham. (5 from 9 overall). Credit where credit is due. Unstoppably unstoppabble?

[devildeac]

You can't count him as an ESPN commentator to be fair. He is a columnist who plays poker and does the humor commentary for the WSOP.


Fair enough. I'll just lump him in with the rest of the terp/d-bag/Duke haters. :p

[DukieInBrasil]

http://http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/insider/story/_/id/18401051/jeff-capel-coaching-more-placeholder-role-duke-blue-devils (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/insider/story/_/id/18401051/jeff-capel-coaching-more-placeholder-role-duke-blue-devils)apparently Eamon Brennan at ESPN thinks there's a consensus that Grayson deserved a 3-game suspension. Far as i can tell, only ESPN personnel were calling for that, and comments section lurkers. The NCAA never said anything, the ACC never said anything, just armchair quarterbacks who look like chumps now.

[Furniture]

According to K Duke are now back on plan. They are finally practicing plus they played like they have recently practiced. Finally in the projected rotation. 7 to 8 guys all feeling like they are starting. The end of "patch working" the team. Playing unselfishly.
VT's game is to be flushed! The team was awful and he himself was awful! 'Flush it'!
Somebody asked about 95. He said that he can't even remember it.
In regards Grayson coming back K said they are doing things behind the scenes and have talked a lot tô Kevin White. They feel like what they have done is appropriate.
In regards Harry they wanted to push the process by starting him. He thought that Bolden had a good second half. He also said that Matt had a good game and hinted that the extended minutes that he had been playing had not helped him. Also a Benefit of having everyone available.
cheers!

[snowdenscold]

3 storyline immediately prior the game:

Jeter's back
Coach K's back
Grayson's back

and now post-game I guess you could add "Duke's back" :D

[Utley]

1. Harry rebounds with ferocity. He really goes after the ball.

2. If Matt is making 37% of open threes we are virtually unstoppable.

3. Bolden has all the tools and the athleticism. What a luxury. He seemed more relaxed in today's game

Harry is a ferocious rebounder and has an incredibly quick leap. Freak athlete.

[Utley]

Was at this incredible experience tonight - kind of reminded me of the 82-50 game in terms of highlighting our potential and the thoroughness of the beat down.

I loved the joy the team had for Harry tonight. From K to the last man on the bench - everyone was delighted for him to begin to realize his potential.

I loved the passing and ball movement on the O and the communication and rotation on the D.

Great to see Marques just relax and play out there. Ran into him later - seems like a great kid.

It seemed like Capel did more talking to the team and the Refs that K - perhaps in regard to limited K back mobility but also to give K a chance
to see K-pel in action and for the team to ease into him as coach.

I continue to believe our ceiling is higher than anyone elses. It's just a matter of realizing it when it matters most.

[uh_no]

This has to be our tallest team in memory. Marques, Harry, Chase and Vrank along with Amile and Javin and our guards are very good sized as well.

the 2012 team would give it a run for the money.

2011-2012
Josh Hairston 6'8
Ryan Kelly 6'11
Marshall Plumlee 7'0
Mason Plumlee 6'11
Miles Plumlee 6'11

yeah we ended up redshirting plumlee....but close enough

[Hancock 4 Duke]

So many positives tonight!!!
Seeing Harry get into the flow of things was nice. Although he had a few misfires (an airballed jumpshot and a hook shot that hit close to the top of the backboard come to mind), it was great to see him garner some confidence in himself. The teammates around him seemed to act as a catalyst for that, everybody was smiling and having a great time on the court, I'm pretty sure I even saw Bolden crack a smile at some point. After Giles came out towards the end, Grayson was giddy like a little kid on Christmas morning, giving him a hug loving it. Luke seemed happy, and I enjoyed seeing Matt hit some outside shots because I have a feeling he's been losing confidence as of late. Grayson seemed to make it a point to be a distributor first tonight, especially in the beginning of the game. At one point he could've easily taken the easy layup but dished it to Giles knowing that Giles needed that bucket more than he did. I have a feeling that this game will serve as much more than a single W on the schedule; I just hope that we can maintain this high motor without K on the sidelines. As a side note, I thought Frank and Luke would end up with a lot more points than they did considering how they started out, but it makes sense that they didn't as GT tried to lock down on them once they had both gone for a combined 7-8 (?) from three in the first half. These are the games you love to watch as a fan. Go Duke!

[Furniture]

https://mobile.twitter.com/bretstrelow/status/816861600925806592/video/1

that smile is brill!

https://mobile.twitter.com/DukeMBB/status/816860346811985920/video/1

In this one the nay sayers can see the lack of team chemistry! Not!

[TKG]

https://mobile.twitter.com/bretstrelow/status/816861600925806592/video/1

that smile is brill!

https://mobile.twitter.com/DukeMBB/status/816860346811985920/video/1

In this one the nay sayers can see the lack of team chemistry! Not!

Harry's comments about Grayson, from the second video attachment, are both touching and revealing. Highly recommend that others watch when they have a moment.

Thanks Furniture.

[Utley]

When was the last time we beat an ACC team by 50+? ( or any ACC team beat another ACC team by 50+)?

Giles playing and Grayson thriving as point guard changes everything..

That's the starting five we've been waiting for.

Haven't been able to find answers to the 2 questions above - but a friend just texted that it was the 5th largest margin in an ACC game - just wow.

[devildeac]

3 storyline immediately prior the game:

Jeter's back
Coach K's back
Grayson's back

and now post-game I guess you could add "Duke's back" :D

And I'm glad we didn't back off after our outstanding 1st half.

[Utley]

Haven't been able to find answers to the 2 questions above - but a friend just texted that it was the 5th largest margin in an ACC game - just wow.

Also just saw in the Chronicle it was our most lopsided ACC win in more than 50 years

[weezie]

Bilas was supposed to interview K? Did that happen?

[davekay1971]

You can't count him as an ESPN commentator to be fair. He is a columnist who plays poker and does the "humor" commentary for the WSOP.

Fixed if for you.

Heckuva performance by Duke. Hopefully they learned how bad things can be when they don't play with intensity and focus, especially on defense (against VT); then how good things can be when they do play with intensity and focus.

Part of the growth process. They grew a lot from VT to last night.

[Channing]

I know it was a blow out but I loved the minutes distribution. That's easy to say when everyone is hitting on all cylinders, and I'm sure Kennard gets more minutes in the 2nd half in a closer game, but having everyone in that 20-30 mpg range is ideal. I think K mentioned that Matt is more effective or is better suited for 25 mpg, and that is what he was getting when he thrived at the beginning of last year and what he got last night when he thrived.

[Philadukie]

Matt shot 4 of 7 from downtown Durham. (5 from 9 overall). Credit where credit is due. Unstoppably unstoppabble?

I really think he shot better because his role was reduced and he was brought off the bench. He was asked to do much less this game and just be himself, per K's post game comments. He is a great 6th man, 3 and D player for this team, not a primary ball handler. If he embraces this role, both he and Duke will benefit greatly.

[sagegrouse]

http://http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/insider/story/_/id/18401051/jeff-capel-coaching-more-placeholder-role-duke-blue-devils (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/insider/story/_/id/18401051/jeff-capel-coaching-more-placeholder-role-duke-blue-devils)apparently Eamon Brennan at ESPN thinks there's a consensus that Grayson deserved a 3-game suspension. Far as i can tell, only ESPN personnel were calling for that, and comments section lurkers. The NCAA never said anything, the ACC never said anything, just armchair quarterbacks who look like chumps now.

Nice pickup, meu amigo. Do you think there is a consensus that Mike Krzyzewski knows how to coach college basketball players?

I am in Jay Bilas's camp on this one: In forty-plus years around basketball, he says it's the "most bizarre" situation he has ever seen. How could there be a thoughtful consensus on something unique in the history of big-time college hoops, especially a situation where no one gets injured and appropriate on-court penalties are assessed?

Kindly,
Sage
'I told a friend, who was ribbing me about "dirty play" at Duke, that there was worse stuff in the lunch line of my grade school, and no one ever got punished. He replied, "You didn't go to Catholic school, did you?"'

[MChambers]

For me, the biggest news out of this game was the return of Harry. This was the first time I've seen him play and understood what all the fuss was about. The improvement he's made in two weeks is amazing. Now I really expect him to be a major contributor in February and March. Yes, he's still making some big defensive mistakes, but he'll learn. I don't get the sense that he doesn't get defense, like some of our recent top recruits.

The second big thing was the return of Frank. His performance has been overlooked, but he was a key off the bench in the first half, hitting several 3s and making a steal or two. He gives Duke more perimeter defense and ball handling, which this team will need, especially against some upcoming opponents. I felt this was the first time in almost a month that Jackson looked as good as he did in the first few games.

Bolden showed some promise last night, too. I expect his minutes will increase some, as he continues to get back in shape.

Beyond that, I agree with those who said that Tatum's offense was better this game, particularly his shot selection.

And, yes, I'd take 82-50 again.

[FadedTackyShirt]

I know it was a blow out but I loved the minutes distribution. That's easy to say when everyone is hitting on all cylinders, and I'm sure Kennard gets more minutes in the 2nd half in a closer game, but having everyone in that 20-30 mpg range is ideal. I think K mentioned that Matt is more effective or is better suited for 25 mpg, and that is what he was getting when he thrived at the beginning of last year and what he got last night when he thrived.

Mins distribution was my big takeaway-core seven: Amile, Grayson, Kennard, Tatum, Giles, Matt, and Frank. Other than Giles and Tatum, everyone played around their optimal mins. Giles' mins are only going to go up and aren't coming from Amile's mins, but from Bolden's and Jeter's mins. 8 man rotation (>10 MPG) may happen during the second half of the season, but 9 man rotation isn't happening.

Bolden looked dramatically different last night from the Elon game. Hustled on defense and played with passion. Definitely made the most out of his opportunity.

[killerleft]

For me, the biggest news out of this game was the return of Harry. This was the first time I've seen him play and understood what all the fuss was about. The improvement he's made in two weeks is amazing. Now I really expect him to be a major contributor in February and March. Yes, he's still making some big defensive mistakes, but he'll learn. I don't get the sense that he doesn't get defense, like some of our recent top recruits.

The second big thing was the return of Frank. His performance has been overlooked, but he was a key off the bench in the first half, hitting several 3s and making a steal or two. He gives Duke more perimeter defense and ball handling, which this team will need, especially against some upcoming opponents. I felt this was the first time in almost a month that Jackson looked as good as he did in the first few games.

Bolden showed some promise last night, too. I expect his minutes will increase some, as he continues to get back in shape.

Beyond that, I agree with those who said that Tatum's offense was better this game, particularly his shot selection.

And, yes, I'd take 82-50 again.

I think we all figured Harry would play with a bit of abandon pretty soon. When he dove for that loose ball, it made me smile!

[Indoor66]

It is easy to spread the minutes when the 1st 6 or 7 build you a quick 15-20 point leader.

[Ballboy1998]

I loved seeing Grayson in distribution-attack-mode instead of just attack-the-basket mode. As others have noted, his body language and demeanor were much improved and I hope he can sustain it through tougher and chippier games.

Following Grayson's early example, everyone seemed to be looking to get their teammates good looks, which is the team mindset needed for that kind of offensive performance. Defensively, there is still a lot of work to be done, but they were active and engaged on the defensive end, which is key.

This was the first time I thought Giles looked like he really felt like a basketball player again and was able to get out of his head and into the flow. That one-handed defensive rebound in the second half - wow!

[Troublemaker]

I know it was a blow out but I loved the minutes distribution. That's easy to say when everyone is hitting on all cylinders, and I'm sure Kennard gets more minutes in the 2nd half in a closer game, but having everyone in that 20-30 mpg range is ideal. I think K mentioned that Matt is more effective or is better suited for 25 mpg, and that is what he was getting when he thrived at the beginning of last year and what he got last night when he thrived.

Yes. If this team is healthy, then Matt's best role is as a 25 mpg sixth man playing mostly on the wing.

And we're finally getting healthy, regaining conditioning, and we're finally forming the prototype team that Coach K envisioned in the offseason.

GGLC!

[flyingdutchdevil]

1) I haven't commented much on the Grayson fiasco (tripping, suspension, media blow out, etc) because I've just been pretty sad about the whole situation. Grayson is, in my opinion, the perfect student-athlete: he's one of the most studious Duke basketball players to come through our program and he's obviously a really good basketball player. All in all, the kind of player that you want to have on your team. I think the suspension was deserved, and happy that Coach K and Kevin White ignored the media hype and said that Allen is fit to come back on the team. Cus you know what? He need him. It's been said before in this thread, but it needs to be said again:
a) Grayson is our defacto PG. He's by far our best passer (some will say Luke, but neither the stats nor the eye test backs this up). His ball handling skills are really good that he can lead a fast break better than anyone on the team. While Grayson is better as a scorer, his distribution skills are second to none on this team.
b) Grayson was overly unselfish. It was highly uncharacteristic of him. But I think this is a product of wanting to add value to the team in other ways plus the coaching staff telling Grayson that he needs to be the distributor because no one else can. And you know what? I loved his new role. It suits him really well. Grayson is so good as a scorer that opponents cannot sag off of him and need to collapse on him when he drives. And that leaves openings, especially on the parameter where he and Kennard have great chemistry.
c) Grayson's body language and team support have been the best I've seen all year. Between pre-trip Grayson, Amile, and Luke, I've been disappointed in the body language of our players. However, yesterday, Grayson was the first to pick players up. He hugged players. He pointed to players who nailed shots after Grayson assisted on them (who does that? I loved it!). Way to go, Grayson. Please keep it up.

2) Luke was Luke. But I get the feeling that he took it easy after the first 10 minutes and was basically a decoy so Jackson, Giles, and Tatum could score. Because there is one thing that is a certainty on this Duke team: don't be foolish and leave Kennard alone. Luke Kennard: the biggest surprise on a Duke team since Nolan Smith in 2009-10.

3) I didn't understand the hype about Harry Giles. I now understand the hype about Harry Giles. Dammmmmmmnnn! The kid is hyper athletic, a phenomenal rebounder, and has the tools (and stable knees) to dominate. He's still a mediocre scorer, but that will come. I think he's too fast near the basket with his put-backs (or lack thereof) and subpar post-up game. But that will certainly change as the season progresses.

4) Tatum is interesting. He clearly has sooooooooo much talent and his body is probably the most NBA ready on the team (the kid is biiiiiig). And around the rim, he's nearly unstoppable. But his 3pt shot is completely broken and, when he drives, he's a black hole. Plus, it seems that his only assists go to Giles (or at least it feels like that). I like Tatum, but I think he doesn't mesh with Kennard and Grayson as well.

5) Matt Jones had a great offensive game (minus the play where he got the pass from Grayson and bulldozed his way through 2 GT players). When Matt is hitting open shots, he has a lot of offensive value. When he does 3-25, he doesn't add any offensive value because, frankly speaking, Matt can only really hit 3s. I want to see Matt continue to hit those open shots.

[NashvilleDevil]

Other than the win my favorite part has to be the pearl clutching by those at ESPN that Grayson came back after 1 game. I hope this team plays with this controlled fury and blocks out the noise from the press. If this game was a corner turner then the rest of college basketball better be ready.

[heyman25]

Excellent team victory. Great move by coaches to change the lineup. Matt Jones had his best game coming off the bench.Grayson was splendid and Kennard and Jefferson continue to perform at high levels. 7 players in double figures. 24 assists. Now can we continue executing as the season progresses.Harry Giles and Marques Bolden are starting to get their sea legs. Tatum is going to get better each game. Very happy after this game.

[Troublemaker]

The Grayson I saw in this game is the Grayson I envisioned in the offseason. He leads emotionally (healthy emotion) and racks up assists allowing Luke, Jayson, Harry, and Amile to do their things, all while still picking his spots to drive and shoot. It was a nice, balanced game from him. We need him to be that type of point guard for us. Somebody has to play distributor with so many scorers on the team when fully healthy, and Grayson is the most optimum choice for that role.

Coach K, in his postgame presser, didn't even do his "I don't know what a point guard is" comic routine. Instead, he just flat out said that Grayson is the point guard, and Frank will back him up, and those two will also play together some.

[sagegrouse]

Biggest Duke margin of victory over an ACC opponent in over 50 years, since Duke walloped Virginia on February 11, 1965, 136-72. Leading scorers: Marin, Verga, Vacendak, Ferguson and Riedy

[DoubleBlue]

The Grayson I saw in this game is the Grayson I envisioned in the offseason. He leads emotionally (healthy emotion) and racks up assists allowing Luke, Jayson, Harry, and Amile to do their things, all while still picking his spots to drive and shoot. It was a nice, balanced game from him. We need him to be that type of point guard for us. Somebody has to play distributor with so many scorers on the team when fully healthy, and Grayson is the most optimum choice for that role.

I think one of the keys for Grayson is for him to recognize his internal level of frustration and to pull back if it starts to build. Also the coaching staff needs to be vigilant and give him a breather on the bench if he starts to show any frustration. This could result in less minutes on the court until he learns to control or channel his emotions in a positive direction.

[FerryFor50]

Nice pickup, meu amigo. Do you think there is a consensus that Mike Krzyzewski knows how to coach college basketball players?

I am in Jay Bilas's camp on this one: In forty-plus years around basketball, he says it's the "most bizarre" situation he has ever seen. How could there be a thoughtful consensus on something unique in the history of big-time college hoops, especially a situation where no one gets injured and appropriate on-court penalties are assessed?

Kindly,
Sage
'I told a friend, who was ribbing me about "dirty play" at Duke, that there was worse stuff in the lunch line of my grade school, and no one ever got punished. He replied, "You didn't go to Catholic school, did you?"'

I disagree with Bilas. There is precedent for "bizarre" basketball situations that resulted in suspensions. And it's recent.

Draymond Green arguably has done way worse in the realm of habitual leg offenses, but has been suspended only a total of 1 game. And it wasn't even for the kick itself; it was for flagrant foul accumulation.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyKYiC7lHvY

[dukebluesincebirth]

https://mobile.twitter.com/bretstrelow/status/816861600925806592/video/1

that smile is brill!

https://mobile.twitter.com/DukeMBB/status/816860346811985920/video/1

In this one the nay sayers can see the lack of team chemistry! Not!

Those were enjoyable, thanks for posting! There's just so much positivity coming from last night's game, and much of it already discussed here on DBR. One more thing to add along the lines of Grayson's point guard play... I noticed some pretty sick handles I don't recall seeing previously. I mean some quick crossovers that shook his defender off balance! He has typically been more of a bull in a china shop driver, trying to draw fouls. Last night was more finesse, crossover dribbles to get into the lane, then dish to the open shooter rather than bulling his way to the basket. It's like he transformed his ball handling game overnight. Impressive. Welcome back Grayson! Loved the attitude AND the game!

[Billy Dat]

It is easy to spread the minutes when the 1st 6 or 7 build you a quick 15-20 point leader.

Luke barely played in the 2nd half.

The quick start made everything else happen and who was in the middle of it, our 2016/17 MVP, Luke Kennard, who exploded for 11 quick points to get us going in the right direction. It is crazy that amid all the Duke drama, Luke as legit POY candidate, first team AA candidate is a back burner story....but it is.


That was just refreshing to see the team we thought we had.

That was my primary takeaway, we actually looked something like the team we were all excited about once we knew who was coming and coming back.


I loved seeing Grayson in distribution-attack-mode instead of just attack-the-basket mode. As others have noted, his body language and demeanor were much improved and I hope he can sustain it through tougher and chippier games.

I, too, love seeing Grayson in that role, especially because if people can get used to him driving and dishing, he'll have more opportunities to drive, ball fake, and finish with rim rocking authority. Unfortunately, it'll take until the season is over and he has no more incidents for me exhale on "the new Grayson" being a real thing...I want to see him playing this way when the rough boys of the ACC are punking him left and right in an attempt to draw a reaction.

Most of my focus was on the freshmen and they all looked good. Despite a slow offensive start, Tatum kept the pressure on and feasted when Tech, essentially, in boxing parlance, dropped it's collective hands. Agree with the comments about Harry's spring and Bolden's increased mobility. Now that Harry is back in the groove, he has to do a better job of sprinting back on defense and helping on drives, and Marquese needs to do a better job of getting back into the defensive possession when he's out of position. I say this because we have the potential for rim protection but guys have to be in position to block shots to actually block shots, and there are a lot of available blocks on help situations and second/third shot attempts near the hoop.

All in all, the game was exactly what we needed. Now, perhaps the most important person in the Duke Basketball universe is Dr. Allan Friedman.

[Jeffrey]

Harry Giles was an unbelievable difference maker tonight. He still makes some really boneheaded mistakes, but he was grabbing rebounds from the top of the backboard and tipping every pass that came to his man . . .

If he's back healthy for real, he's going to be in the race for ACC player of the year.



According to you, Harry has almost no (zero) chance of beating Matt out for his starting position. So, how is a second stringer "going to be in the race for ACC player of the year"?

http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?39084-MBB-Duke-65-Tenn-St-55-Post-Game-Thread&p=933920#post933920

IMO, Harry is not "going to be in the race for ACC player of the year". However, I still believe he will take Matt's starting spot.

[Saratoga2]

1)



5) Matt Jones had a great offensive game (minus the play where he got the pass from Grayson and bulldozed his way through 2 GT players). When Matt is hitting open shots, he has a lot of offensive value. When he does 3-25, he doesn't add any offensive value because, frankly speaking, Matt can only really hit 3s. I want to see Matt continue to hit those open shots.

My take on that play is Grayson gave Matt the ball in a terrible situation where he was almost certainly going to charge. A point guard needs to see the possibilities and avoid putting one of his players into a situation where he is likely to fail. other than that play though I thought Grayson did an admirable job of distribution.

[Ultrarunner]

Those were enjoyable, thanks for posting! There's just so much positivity coming from last night's game, and much of it already discussed here on DBR. One more thing to add along the lines of Grayson's point guard play... I noticed some pretty sick handles I don't recall seeing previously. I mean some quick crossovers that shook his defender off balance! He has typically been more of a bull in a china shop driver, trying to draw fouls. Last night was more finesse, crossover dribbles to get into the lane, then dish to the open shooter rather than bulling his way to the basket. It's like he transformed his ball handling game overnight. Impressive. Welcome back Grayson! Loved the attitude AND the game!

Grayson's ball-handling has been there is flashes, but I don't think you'd get an argument that he never used a hesitation move in his life. Last night, he did, and it froze the defense several times, giving him some really nice passing lanes. I also liked that the team was pushing the ball harder, make or miss. Grayson is much better in the open court - for now. Look for his half-court skills to grow under the tutelage of Jon Scheyer and Nolan Smith. It's easy to forget that Grayson is a work-in-progress, too.

[ricks68]

Also just saw in the Chronicle it was our most lopsided ACC win in more than 50 years

I know, because I was at that game just over 50 years ago. I kept checking the clock to see when we hit 100, and I think it was at 9:58 left in the game!��

After we pulled all the starters at about that point, the second team plus put up another 36 points in under 10 minutes.��

ricks

[Ggallagher]

Bilas was supposed to interview K? Did that happen?

During the game, they did say that they would air Jay's interview with Coach K on Sportscenter after the game. I recorded the first two hours of Sportscenter following the game, and scanned through it this morning. There was no interview, nor any mention of it. Kind of disappointing.

However if you want to know how many different ways "indefinite" can be spoken within quotes, those two hours probably set the world record.

[Jeffrey]

Yes. If this team is healthy, then Matt's best role is as a 25 mpg sixth man playing mostly on the wing.



Strongly agree. A fresh Matt is going to play some awesome D and substantially increase our March odds.

[53n206]

Can one imagine how wonderful it would be to have a Grayson stay another year to improve his point guard skills? Wonderful for the Duke fans, and probably improve his NBA draft status immeasurably.

[TruBlu]

I really think he shot better because his role was reduced and he was brought off the bench. He was asked to do much less this game and just be himself, per K's post game comments. He is a great 6th man, 3 and D player for this team, not a primary ball handler. If he embraces this role, both he and Duke will benefit greatly.

Yes, it may be that Matt might have been "thinking" too much about trying to be the point guard, which might have taken him out of what he does best. Glad to see him in a role that he can fill.

Welcome back Grayson!

This was the best "team ball" that I have seen thus far this season. Keep it up!

And by the way, GTHC.

[hudlow]

I think Grayson should be on the scout team all the time. :)

[ChillinDuke]

Biggest Duke margin of victory over an ACC opponent in over 50 years, since Duke walloped Virginia on February 11, 1965, 136-72. Leading scorers: Marin, Verga, Vacendak, Ferguson and Riedy

What?! What's more impressive than the margin of victory, how did Duke score 136 in 40 minutes with no three point shot?

- Chillin

[Indoor66]

What?! What's more impressive than the margin of victory, how did Duke score 136 in 40 minutes with no three point shot?

- Chillin

Maybe they were more skilled than we give them credit?

[flyingdutchdevil]

My take on that play is Grayson gave Matt the ball in a terrible situation where he was almost certainly going to charge. A point guard needs to see the possibilities and avoid putting one of his players into a situation where he is likely to fail. other than that play though I thought Grayson did an admirable job of distribution.

I rewatched it. Yes, Grayson's pass wasn't ideal. But neither was Matt running into traffic BEFORE the pass and you can't blame Grayson for Matt's bulldozing approach into 2 GT players.

As a 3-and-D player, I'm surprised Matt didn't slowly trail and get open on the 3 pt line. That's what he's best at on offense. I know I'm not the only one who cringes every time Matt enters the key, with or without the ball.

[Kedsy]

Defensively, there is still a lot of work to be done, but they were active and engaged on the defensive end, which is key.

I know we made some defensive mistakes, and I know Georgia Tech isn't very good on offense, but we still held them to 0.79 points per possession, which is pretty darn good against an ACC opponent.


The kid [Harry] is hyper athletic, a phenomenal rebounder, and has the tools (and stable knees) to dominate.

Harry is averaging a ridiculous 22 rebounds per 40 minutes so far this season. His offensive rebounding percentage of 34.7% is more than 60% higher than Brian Zoubek's historic performance in 2009-10 (21.5%).

It's a very small sample against mediocre opponents, and I'm not saying he'll keep up those gaudy numbers, but to rebound like that while clearly not being 100% (and coming back after a year-and-a-half off) is pretty amazing, and makes me wonder just how good his rebounding will be when he gets up to speed.

[kostar]

Draymond Green arguably has done way worse in the realm of habitual leg offenses, but has been suspended only a total of 1 game. And it wasn't even for the kick itself; it was for flagrant foul accumulation.



this - very much this

[flyingdutchdevil]

I know we made some defensive mistakes, and I know Georgia Tech isn't very good on offense, but we still held them to 0.79 points per possession, which is pretty darn good against an ACC opponent.



Harry is averaging a ridiculous 22 rebounds per 40 minutes so far this season. His offensive rebounding percentage of 34.7% is more than 60% higher than Brian Zoubek's historic performance in 2009-10 (21.5%).

It's a very small sample against mediocre opponents, and I'm not saying he'll keep up those gaudy numbers, but to rebound like that while clearly not being 100% (and coming back after a year-and-a-half off) is pretty amazing, and makes me wonder just how good his rebounding will be when he gets up to speed.

Do you think Giles's rebounding can get better? I think any improvement from familiarity/increased health/confidence could be offset by the opponent scouting reports on how to challenge Giles on rebounds (now that Giles has finally played some college games). I agree that Giles is an insane rebounder, but I'm not sure there is room for improvement.

I'm so curious to see Giles's defensive improvements. The game is clearly too fast for him on the defensive end right now, but once he gets it, it'll be wonderful. Giles came in with the reputation of a lock-down defender and excellent help-side defender; I wanna see that.

[Atlanta Duke]

I disagree with Bilas. There is precedent for "bizarre" basketball situations that resulted in suspensions. And it's recent.

Draymond Green arguably has done way worse in the realm of habitual leg offenses, but has been suspended only a total of 1 game. And it wasn't even for the kick itself; it was for flagrant foul accumulation.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyKYiC7lHvY

But Draymond Green is not "the Duke villain we've all been waiting for" (USA Today - April 7, 2015)

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/04/grayson-allen-duke-march-madness-hate-christian-laettner

Online sports media need to generate page clicks - Grayson Allen is a dream come true for generating page clicks - precedent has nothing to do with this - drawing readers to your page does

So since reporting on the #1 ranked team in the country and defending national champ losing last night does not bring the clicks, the ESPN home page for college basketball leads this morning with whether lifting the Allen suspension was the right call, followed by an Eamonn Brennan take on lifting the suspension, a video on K being interviewed by Bilas about the suspension, and a video of noted sports psychologist Max Kellerman opining on Grayson Allen having an impulse control problem

[DukieInKansas]

Fun game to watch. Just to add my $0.02 - My impression of pre and post suspension Grayson is this:

Pre-suspension - Grayson played like he was responsible for all things in the game - he needed to be sure Duke won. It all fell on his shoulders.

Post-suspension - Grayson played like he was part of a team and he knew that he could count on his teammates to come through for the win. If they all work together, the team wins. (Fist) He looked like he was having more fun out there. (Of course, given the large lead early, it is much easier to have fun.)

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Fun game to watch. Just to add my $0.02 - My impression of pre and post suspension Grayson is this:

Pre-suspension - Grayson played like he was responsible for all things in the game - he needed to be sure Duke won. It all fell on his shoulders.

Post-suspension - Grayson played like he was part of a team and he knew that he could count on his teammates to come through for the win. If they all work together, the team wins. (Fist) He looked like he was having more fun out there. (Of course, given the large lead early, it is much easier to have fun.)

This this this, absolutely this. I said several times on this forum, that Grayson was putting undue pressure on himself - either because of his captaincy, media expectations, or because of injuries to freshmen. He felt he needed to will the team to victory. My hope is that the time away has helped him integrate himself into the team as a part of it, not as simply the team's guiding force.

[ricks68]

What?! What's more impressive than the margin of victory, how did Duke score 136 in 40 minutes with no three point shot?

- Chillin

It happened because the whippersnappers around here believe that great Duke basketball was invented by Coach K. We Crusties know better. Art Heyman is still possibly Duke's greatest player and Redick's 3 point form was an exact copy of Verga's (and Verga only got 2 points for his).

ricks

[dukebluesincebirth]

Do you think Giles's rebounding can get better? I think any improvement from familiarity/increased health/confidence could be offset by the opponent scouting reports on how to challenge Giles on rebounds (now that Giles has finally played some college games). I agree that Giles is an insane rebounder, but I'm not sure there is room for improvement.

I'm so curious to see Giles's defensive improvements. The game is clearly too fast for him on the defensive end right now, but once he gets it, it'll be wonderful. Giles came in with the reputation of a lock-down defender and excellent help-side defender; I wanna see that.

I don't know if Giles's rebounding can get better as far as just averaging more rebounds per game. But I think he can get stronger in his lower body base (from the glutes down). He seems skinny to me, and a little weak in the lower body (most likely due to rehabbing knees instead of power lifting with the legs over the last 2 years). I could see a guy with a strong lower body and good technique boxing him out quite easily. Having said this, I also agree that he is a gifted rebounder and I don't think there's much that another team's scouting report can do about it. He has that freakish athletic ability that we see in the NBA sometimes when a guy can jump, land, then jump again to about the same vertical height all in a split second. Even most great athletes take a moment to regain balance and set feet before jumping that second time. People like Harry seem to be on a trampoline. Add this to his arm length and 6' 11 height... you have an elite rebounder. You can't teach this, and I doubt you can stop it with a scouting report. I also agree that the defense needs lots of improvement, but so do lots of other freshmen, and I think Harry will be a willing learner who gets better quickly.

[Billy Dat]

Do you think Giles's rebounding can get better? I think any improvement from familiarity/increased health/confidence could be offset by the opponent scouting reports on how to challenge Giles on rebounds (now that Giles has finally played some college games). I agree that Giles is an insane rebounder, but I'm not sure there is room for improvement.

I'm so curious to see Giles's defensive improvements. The game is clearly too fast for him on the defensive end right now, but once he gets it, it'll be wonderful. Giles came in with the reputation of a lock-down defender and excellent help-side defender; I wanna see that.

One thing I noticed about last night is that when Harry and Amile share the floor, Harry's activity frees up Amile, already an excellent rebounder, to cause even greater havoc. He got a few easy put backs as Harry drew attention.

I also noticed, defensively, his quickness advantage in disrupting passes to bigs on the perimeter, pokes from behind and such. His progress is tangible, let's hope it keeps on coming.

[Troublemaker]

Just a random thought. Coach K is probably out of the running for ACC COY because (a) he suspended Grayson for "only" one game and (b) Coach Capel will take over for a few games while he's recovering from surgery.

But there's a real chance Duke might go 15-3 in a loaded league where nobody else gets above 12-6.

Hmmph.

[FerryFor50]

Just a random thought. Coach K is probably out of the running for ACC COY because (a) he suspended Grayson for "only" one game and (b) Coach Capel will take over for a few games while he's recovering from surgery.

But there's a real chance Duke might go 15-3 in a loaded league where nobody else gets above 12-6.

Hmmph.

I'm convinced that the only way K ever wins coach of the year again is to go undefeated/1 loss and win ACC outright. He's raised the bar too high.

[53n206]

So much to look forward to! Opposing teams having to defend Grayson's passing ability; their having to concentrate more on Harry's rebounding skills; Jayson getting better each game; Marques getting in shape. Did I forget to mention Luke,or Frank,or Matt or(please forgive) Amile? The future looks so bright! Did in August too, but actually seeing them together makes a difference.

[jv001]

I rewatched it. Yes, Grayson's pass wasn't ideal. But neither was Matt running into traffic BEFORE the pass and you can't blame Grayson for Matt's bulldozing approach into 2 GT players.

As a 3-and-D player, I'm surprised Matt didn't slowly trail and get open on the 3 pt line. That's what he's best at on offense. I know I'm not the only one who cringes every time Matt enters the key, with or without the ball.

I agree it wasn't the best pass Grayson made last night and I was thinking you can't give a pass to Matt in the lane unless he's wide open. Coach K pulled the right strings last night. Having Matt come off the bench, starting Giles, playing Bolden early and using Grayson as the point guard. Now let's build on this victory and win the regular season title. GoDuke!

[Neals384]

So many things went well - Luke barely played in the 2nd half. At one point in the first however I wondered if the 4-'guard' lineup we used was the first time we'd seen it - Luke, Grayson, Matt and Frank were all in with Amile in the middle. I know we're close when Jayson plays the perimeter but it's not exactly the same. And while it felt effective I know some of the better at stats folks here will let me know that the +/- or some other stat wasn't so good - but my point is that I don't think we'd seen it.

Jefferson jones kennard allen jackson has been used in 9 previous games, but not since Tenn St. It was quite effective vs. GCU (+13) and App St. (+20), but overall the lineup is only +13.5 per 40 minutes - not one of our best.


The second big thing was the return of Frank. His performance has been overlooked, but he was a key off the bench in the first half, hitting several 3s and making a steal or two. He gives Duke more perimeter defense and ball handling, which this team will need, especially against some upcoming opponents. I felt this was the first time in almost a month that Jackson looked as good as he did in the first few games.

this. Frank was awesome.

[jv001]

Jay Bilas interview with Coach K was on sportscenter this morning. In the interview Jay asked Coach about his back surgery. Coach K said this time it's different than 1995. He also said that the coaches wanted Grayson to run the point. So, much for non-positions. Bilas worded his question about the suspension very carefully. I think coach would have embarrassed Jay if he hadn't. Coach K told Jay there were things he(Jay) didn't know about the process and things the public didn't know about the process. You could tell Coach was hurting. I'm praying that his surgery will be a success and he comes back 100%. GoDuke!

[duke96]

I know, because I was at that game just over 50 years ago. I kept checking the clock to see when we hit 100, and I think it was at 9:58 left in the game!😎


ricks

Good lord that is impressive memory. I can barely remember what I had for dinner last night!

[Troublemaker]

Jay Bilas interview with Coach K was on sportscenter this morning. In the interview Jay asked Coach about his back surgery. Coach K said this time it's different than 1995. He also said that the coaches wanted Grayson to run the point. So, much for non-positions. Bilas worded his question about the suspension very carefully. I think coach would have embarrassed Jay if he hadn't. Coach K told Jay there were things he(Jay) didn't know about the process and things the public didn't know about the process. You could tell Coach was hurting. I'm praying that his surgery will be a success and he comes back 100%. GoDuke!

Short Excerpt:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojIqN6G3dOA

[dukelifer]

This this this, absolutely this. I said several times on this forum, that Grayson was putting undue pressure on himself - either because of his captaincy, media expectations, or because of injuries to freshmen. He felt he needed to will the team to victory. My hope is that the time away has helped him integrate himself into the team as a part of it, not as simply the team's guiding force.

I think Grayson will be much better perceived if he becomes a facilitator this year. All chances for POY are effectively out- the ACC media will lot let that happen. However, he can still pick his spots but driving and dishing can be a strength. This will change the perception of Grayson and make it easier on his teammates. Duke needs a passer- Grayson needs to show he is more than a ball dominant guard and if Duke wins- he wins. I think this was the message sent to him and I think he will embrace it. We will see next game.

[ChillinDuke]

It happened because the whippersnappers around here believe that great Duke basketball was invented by Coach K. We Crusties know better. Art Heyman is still possibly Duke's greatest player and Redick's 3 point form was an exact copy of Verga's (and Verga only got 2 points for his).

ricks

I certainly appreciate that Duke basketball was excellent well before K.

But how was it physically possible? If you assume an average of 15-second possessions throughout the game (which seems very small) you arrive at 160 possessions (per 40 mins), half of which are for the other team. So Duke would have 80 possessions averaging 1.7 pts per possession? In an era where there was no shot clock and no three point shot?

A performance for the ages, it sounds like.

- Chillin

[jimsumner]

The 1965 Duke team was the highest-scoring team in Duke history and the third-highest scoring team in ACC history, behind only two of the NC State David Thompson team.

So, they knew how to put the ball in the basket.

Back to your regular programming.

[gam7]

I think Grayson will be much better perceived if he becomes a facilitator this year. All chances for POY are effectively out- the ACC media will lot let that happen. However, he can still pick his spots but driving and dishing can be a strength. This will change the perception of Grayson and make it easier on his teammates. Duke needs a passer- Grayson needs to show he is more than a ball dominant guard and if Duke wins- he wins. I think this was the message sent to him and I think he will embrace it. We will see next game.

Interestingly, this is a situation where what's best for Grayson's future (showing he can facilitate) is aligned with what's best for the team (finding a facilitator). Win-win.

[kAzE]

Grayson is our defacto PG. He's by far our best passer (some will say Luke, but neither the stats nor the eye test backs this up). His ball handling skills are really good that he can lead a fast break better than anyone on the team. While Grayson is better as a scorer, his distribution skills are second to none on this team.

Agreed, it was one game, but pass-first Grayson seems to be exactly what this team needs to be dominant on offense.


Luke was Luke. But I get the feeling that he took it easy after the first 10 minutes and was basically a decoy so Jackson, Giles, and Tatum could score. Because there is one thing that is a certainty on this Duke team: don't be foolish and leave Kennard alone. Luke Kennard: the biggest surprise on a Duke team since Nolan Smith in 2009-10.

Is he really that big of a surprise? I thought he showed a lot of this potential last year. His outside shot just wasn't falling in the beginning of the year. But I thought his performance inside the 3 point line, as well as his ball handling and feel for the game was on full display last year. I didn't envision him leading the team in scoring, but I definitely thought he was capable of being one of the best offensive players in the country.


3) I didn't understand the hype about Harry Giles. I now understand the hype about Harry Giles. Dammmmmmmnnn! The kid is hyper athletic, a phenomenal rebounder, and has the tools (and stable knees) to dominate. He's still a mediocre scorer, but that will come. I think he's too fast near the basket with his put-backs (or lack thereof) and subpar post-up game. But that will certainly change as the season progresses.

I'll admit, I did not think he would get his knees to 100% this year. He looked pretty damn close to it last night, and he's definitely going to get better. That kid will be a monster by March.


4) Tatum is interesting. He clearly has sooooooooo much talent and his body is probably the most NBA ready on the team (the kid is biiiiiig). And around the rim, he's nearly unstoppable. But his 3pt shot is completely broken and, when he drives, he's a black hole. Plus, it seems that his only assists go to Giles (or at least it feels like that). I like Tatum, but I think he doesn't mesh with Kennard and Grayson as well.

I agree . . . Jayson is a bit of a ball stopper. He had a really awful first half last night, but caught fire in the second. Our ball movement isn't quite as fluid with him on the floor, but he's just so good going 1 on 1 that it doesn't really matter.


According to you, Harry has almost no (zero) chance of beating Matt out for his starting position. So, how is a second stringer "going to be in the race for ACC player of the year"?

Okay, so I was wrong. Harry knees look a lot healthier than they did 2 weeks ago. Are you really going to pretend like you know exactly how player injuries are going to play out? I also said in the VT Post-game thread that the Harry breakout is coming.

Let it go . . .

[Clay Feet POF]

ESPN posted this guy's opinion of the Grayson Allen situation to the website. Hey, he's also a Maryland grad!


7016

Norman Chad, Norman Chad, I'd reference a Ditka comment.... "I think this is Grapefruit logic."

[duke79]

Jay Bilas interview with Coach K was on sportscenter this morning. In the interview Jay asked Coach about his back surgery. Coach K said this time it's different than 1995. He also said that the coaches wanted Grayson to run the point. So, much for non-positions. Bilas worded his question about the suspension very carefully. I think coach would have embarrassed Jay if he hadn't. Coach K told Jay there were things he(Jay) didn't know about the process and things the public didn't know about the process. You could tell Coach was hurting. I'm praying that his surgery will be a success and he comes back 100%. GoDuke!

Yea, when I saw Coach K sitting on the bench during the game last night, he was slouching back in his chair (maybe that was more comfortable for him?), which I have never seen him do, and, frankly, he looked tired (you might also say "haggard"). I would guess his back pain has kept him from sleeping soundly. Being in constant pain is no fun. I fractured a vertebrae in my back last Spring in a skiing accident and I was in a lot of pain for a long time. It begins to wear on you, psychologically and physically, and ages you fast. UGH.

[ikiru36]

Fun game to watch. Just to add my $0.02 - My impression of pre and post suspension Grayson is this:

Pre-suspension - Grayson played like he was responsible for all things in the game - he needed to be sure Duke won. It all fell on his shoulders.

Post-suspension - Grayson played like he was part of a team and he knew that he could count on his teammates to come through for the win. If they all work together, the team wins. (Fist) He looked like he was having more fun out there. (Of course, given the large lead early, it is much easier to have fun.)

Lots of good thoughts throughout this thread, including those here. I just want to point out/remind that speaking of a "Post-suspension" Grayson at this point, before he has faced any renewed adversity on the court (and especially from hostile crowds), is somewhat pre-mature.

I hope that he evermore displays all the focus, joy and team-oriented play we witnessed last night, and I suspect that he will much of the time because those things are not particularly at odds with things we've variously seen before in his personality and his game. That said, and for better or worse, whatever teaching he encountered over the past few weeks cannot possibly have fully transplanted all of his greatest as well as less vaunted tendencies.

I point this out not to malign Grayson in any way, but moreso to urge that we remember that he is human and may be yet to face his sternest tests "post-suspension". I just don't want the first sign of visible consternation on his face, or the next time that he single-mindedly drives to the hoop and overargues a bit for a foul call, to be seen as an indication that the "bad Grayson" is returning or "here we go again".

I'm glad that we celebrate all of his successes and praise any witnessed growth (especially when facing prolonged adversity, as will almost inevitably occur), so long as we do not now raise the bar of expectations in ways that are unfair or unrealistic.

Go Grayson!!!! GTHCGTH!!!!!!!!! Go Blue Devils!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Indoor66]

Short Excerpt:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojIqN6G3dOA


I posted this in the Grayson thread, as well:

FOREGIVENESS is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.---Mark Twain

Maybe we should all enjoy the fragrance. The Violet has been crushed.

[Tom B.]

I certainly appreciate that Duke basketball was excellent well before K.

But how was it physically possible? If you assume an average of 15-second possessions throughout the game (which seems very small) you arrive at 160 possessions (per 40 mins), half of which are for the other team. So Duke would have 80 possessions averaging 1.7 pts per possession? In an era where there was no shot clock and no three point shot?

A performance for the ages, it sounds like.


Here's the boxscore for that game:

http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketball-m/games/boxscore.php?gameid=19650211

Duke took 93 shots and made 55. Duke was also 26-for-31 on free throws.

Scoring was pretty balanced -- Duke had six guys in double figures, but only one over 20 (Jack Marin had 25).

[ingrjc1]

Great post. I thought the same thing. I was really glad to see it. I would like to see more outward positive emotions ala the "lets go! lets go!" from the Championship game because I think that is good for him and healthy for him. Expend all that emotional energy via a positive outlet.

Really great insight in your post uh no.

Mark

I liked that he helped the guy off the floor also. I wish that was more of the norm at Duke. I like the toughness, but you can be tough and still help a guy up.

[Clay Feet POF]

Jay Bilas interview with Coach K was on sportscenter this morning. In the interview Jay asked Coach about his back surgery. Coach K said this time it's different than 1995. He also said that the coaches wanted Grayson to run the point. So, much for non-positions. Bilas worded his question about the suspension very carefully. I think coach would have embarrassed Jay if he hadn't. Coach K told Jay there were things he(Jay) didn't know about the process and things the public didn't know about the process. You could tell Coach was hurting. I'm praying that his surgery will be a success and he comes back 100%. GoDuke!


Plus Tax!

[ikiru36]

I posted this in the Grayson thread, as well:

FORGIVENESS is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.---Mark Twain

Maybe we should all enjoy the fragrance. The Violet has been crushed.

I prefer when it is the heel itself that is crushed.

GTHCGTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Go Blue Devils!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[elvis14]

That's the team we all expected to see.

This was my my overriding thought on this game. What a great glimpse of what we can be. I don't expect us to be this good every game but it's just nice to see the potential realized somewhat (guys are still coming up to speed).

I also feel that I need to be more careful with my posts. In the post game thread for the VT game I said that Grayson's suspension should be over. In the pre-game thread for this game I said I wanted to see GA, LK, JT, HG, AJ start. If the coaching staff are actually going to be turning to my posts for direction I'm really honored. I do, however, feel the added responsibility and will post appropriately. One thing I will say is that I think we'd play a lot better if the coaches would send me season tickets. :)

[DukieInKansas]

This was my my overriding thought on this game. What a great glimpse of what we can be. I don't expect us to be this good every game but it's just nice to see the potential realized somewhat (guys are still coming up to speed).

I also feel that I need to be more careful with my posts. In the post game thread for the VT game I said that Grayson's suspension should be over. In the pre-game thread for this game I said I wanted to see GA, LK, JT, HG, AJ start. If the coaching staff are actually going to be turning to my posts for direction I'm really honored. I do, however, feel the added responsibility and will post appropriately. One thing I will say is that I think we'd play a lot better if the coaches would send me season tickets. :)

Only if you take me with you - that will double the odds for the team to play even better. ;)

[Indoor66]

Here's the boxscore for that game:

http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketball-m/games/boxscore.php?gameid=19650211

Duke took 93 shots and made 55. Duke was also 26-for-31 on free throws.

Scoring was pretty balanced -- Duke had six guys in double figures, but only one over 20 (Jack Marin had 25).

That Box Score was fun to look at. Had not thought about some of those guys in many years.

[Ggallagher]

Here's the boxscore for that game:

http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketball-m/games/boxscore.php?gameid=19650211

Duke took 93 shots and made 55. Duke was also 26-for-31 on free throws.

Scoring was pretty balanced -- Duke had six guys in double figures, but only one over 20 (Jack Marin had 25).

Thanks for the link to this game. Something that caught my attention from the stat sheet is that everyone on the team scored. I imagine that doesn't happen too often. And what likely makes it unique is the fact that Burton Fitts (sorry, not a name I remember from when I was there), scored the only two points of his Duke career in that game.

[tbyers11]

I certainly appreciate that Duke basketball was excellent well before K.

But how was it physically possible? If you assume an average of 15-second possessions throughout the game (which seems very small) you arrive at 160 possessions (per 40 mins), half of which are for the other team. So Duke would have 80 possessions averaging 1.7 pts per possession? In an era where there was no shot clock and no three point shot?

A performance for the ages, it sounds like.

- Chillin


Here's the boxscore for that game:

http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketball-m/games/boxscore.php?gameid=19650211

Duke took 93 shots and made 55. Duke was also 26-for-31 on free throws.

Scoring was pretty balanced -- Duke had six guys in double figures, but only one over 20 (Jack Marin had 25).

You can't fully use KenPom's possession calculation formula (Possessions = FGA-OR+TO+.475*FTA) because the box score doesn't have offensive rebounds or turnovers but a conservative estimate puts that game at about 85 possessions. That puts Duke's offensive performance at 1.6 PPP. Without a 3pt line. Last night's performance against GT was 1.55 PPP which included 16 3-pointers and, according to John Gasaway (https://twitter.com/JohnGasaway/status/816856897273872385), was the 8th best major conference mark since 2006. That is an impressive feat by 1965 Duke

Side note: 85-90 possessions per game is fast. Looking at several of the other 1965 GoDuke boxscores (which have OR and TO data) that appears to be the norm. 2017 UNC, which likes to play fast, averages about 74 possession/game and The Citadel leads the NCAA with 84 possession/game. To those who watched first hand, did 1965 Duke regularly resemble 1990 Loyola Marymount with a near continual fast break and shoot within the first 10-15 seconds of every single possession?

[FerryFor50]

Here's the boxscore for that game:

http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketball-m/games/boxscore.php?gameid=19650211

Duke took 93 shots and made 55. Duke was also 26-for-31 on free throws.

Scoring was pretty balanced -- Duke had six guys in double figures, but only one over 20 (Jack Marin had 25).

Psh. 0 assists! :cool:

[devildeac]

Psh. 0 assists! :cool:

Yea, but look on the bright side.

0 turnovers.

:p

[ricks68]

You can't fully use KenPom's possession calculation formula (Possessions = FGA-OR+TO+.475*FTA) because the box score doesn't have offensive rebounds or turnovers but a conservative estimate puts that game at about 85 possessions. That puts Duke's offensive performance at 1.6 PPP. Without a 3pt line. Last night's performance against GT was 1.55 PPP which included 16 3-pointers and, according to John Gasaway (https://twitter.com/JohnGasaway/status/816856897273872385), was the 8th best major conference mark since 2006. That is an impressive feat by 1965 Duke

Side note 85-90 possessions per game is fast. Looking at several of the other 1965 GoDuke boxscores (which have OR and TO data) that appears to be the norm. 2017 UNC, which likes to play fast, averages about 74 possession/game and The Citadel leads the NCAA with 84 possession/game. To those who watched first hand, did 1965 Duke regularly resemble 1990 Loyola Marymount with a near continual fast break and shoot within the first 10-15 seconds of every single possession?

No. Not a continual fast break. They were just an outstanding team that played within the flow of the game under an outstanding coach in Vic Bubas. About the norm for our teams under Bubas. Check out his other Duke teams, whippersnappers.😜

ricks

[Kedsy]

I certainly appreciate that Duke basketball was excellent well before K.

But how was it physically possible? If you assume an average of 15-second possessions throughout the game (which seems very small) you arrive at 160 possessions (per 40 mins), half of which are for the other team. So Duke would have 80 possessions averaging 1.7 pts per possession? In an era where there was no shot clock and no three point shot?

A performance for the ages, it sounds like.

- Chillin

Looking at the box score, Duke took 93 shots and 31 free throws in that game. So probably way more than 80 possessions, probably closer to 105, maybe more. Presumably meaning the time per possession was much less than 15 seconds. Virginia "only" took 77 shots and 24 free throws, so they must have had a ton of turnovers that led to runouts.

Duke shot 59% from the field and 84% from the line in the game, so a 1.3 pts per possession sounds plausible.


EDIT: I see others beat me to it. I arrived at my estimate of 105 possessions (rather than the 85 possessions tbyers11 suggests) by assuming we only had 3 more offensive rebounds than turnovers. Last night we had 7 more ORs than TOs, which if true in that game would have meant 101 possessions. But for the season, we only average one more OR per game than TO, which would suggest 107 possessions in that game. Either way, a lot more than 85. And also a ppp closer to 1.3 than 1.6.

[westwall]

Aside from Giles, Bolden, Amile, Luke, Matt, Jayson, and Frank all having great games, the biggest take away for me was Grayson.

Anyone who thinks that 1 game suspension and revoking captaincy was not enough for an attitude adjustment by Grayson was not watching closely enough. His Gameplay, demeanor, interactions with teammates and even opponents were all so changed from how he has been all year I was amazed.


At one point he and a GT guy had a collision under GT's basket in the second half right before there was a timeout. Grayson went back and helped the guy up
Grayson nearly mauled Harry at one point when harry was suppsed out after a huge play (the alley oop?). I'm not sure I've seen him act so positively to a teammate all year
He barely looked to score early in the game. he was being a fantastic distributor, and he was rewarded with 7 assists. The team was massively rewarded by his patience. This unselfishness was embraced by the rest of the team as well, and it showed with phenomenal ball movement.
He was much more active off the ball than he had been. I'm not sure I remember him standing around tonight like I had in his past few games...which was especially bothersome since he often seemed to be pouting after a stretch of poor play.
He didn't go kamikaze on drives but for maybe once or twice. That type of controlled play is what we need. He can't amaze everyone in the country every play.


Ironically, it seemed after his captaincy, Grayson acted the leader on the floor that was expected of him all along...he got back to his "Let's Go" attitude from the title game rather than someone who let poor play turn him to the dark side.

The real test will be how he reacts to adversity of poor play, or a bad call, or the team losing...but what we saw tonight was definitely a change.


I haven't seen this noted eslewhere, but perhaps worth a mention: of the ten Duke players who recorded more than three minutes against Georgia Tech, only one had NO personal fouls. Grayson Allen.

[weezie]

During the game, they did say that they would air Jay's interview with Coach K on Sportscenter after the game. I recorded the first two hours of Sportscenter following the game, and scanned through it this morning. There was no interview, nor any mention of it. Kind of disappointing.

However if you want to know how many different ways "indefinite" can be spoken within quotes, those two hours probably set the world record.

Maybe they'll use it to tease people into watching the bc game. I was annoyed since we also tivoed waaaayyyyy to much So-Called Sports Center.

[ricks68]

Good lord that is impressive memory. I can barely remember what I had for dinner last night!

I only remember it because I always try to predict a final score range during each game and calculate it by using 5 and 10 minute intervals. So, I was checking both the clock and the score at that time, and bingo! While I, too, have a really crappy short term memory (and any kind of reliable memory, according to my wife), it should be obvious that just about anyone who would be checking the score at that time would remember it under the circumstances. (Although I don't remember when we hit 100 during the 121 points we put on Navy that year, also. It was Navy, wasn't it? Heh, heh.)

ricks

[BandAlum83]

I haven't seen this noted eslewhere, but perhaps worth a mention: of the ten Duke players who recorded more than three minutes against Georgia Tech, only one had NO personal fouls. Grayson Allen.

Definitely worth noting! Thanks for pointing this out.

[plimnko]

is it just me or does anyone else hate watching ted valentine ref a game?

[BD80]

[DeLaurier] in a walking boot. not sure if an announcement has been made.
Jeter "twisted his back", or something, and didn't dress for the game.

For most teams, these guys would be two of the four or five most talented players on the team. For us, they are around #8 or #9.


You can't count him as an ESPN commentator to be fair. He is a columnist who plays poker and does the humor commentary for the WSOP.

He played the hand he was dealt. A cheap shot, but an easy laugh. Guy going in for surgery makes a decision some disagree with. It's like dunking on a 7' hoop.



More important: DID COACH K REALLY SAY THAT FEWER MINUTES MIGHT HELP MATT???????

This from the coach who has played 6 1/2 or 7 man rotations for years even with McD AAs flowing off the end of the bench?

This simply does not compute. DOES. NOT. COMPUTE.

[Olympic Fan]

Here's the boxscore for that game:

http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketball-m/games/boxscore.php?gameid=19650211

Duke took 93 shots and made 55. Duke was also 26-for-31 on free throws.

Scoring was pretty balanced -- Duke had six guys in double figures, but only one over 20 (Jack Marin had 25).

Interesting to me, but the box score lists the starters for the Virginia visitors, but not for Duke. None of the stats from that era include starting info for that Duke team.

I can't swear for that night, but I know that Tison at center, Marin at forward, Vacendak and Verga at guard were definite starters. There were times during that era when Denny Ferguson started at guard and Vacendak moved over to "small forward". I know that's what turned the 1964 team around after a slow start -- moving Ferguson into the starting lineup. A year later, Bob Reidy became a fixture at PF, but I don't think he started as a junior. The guy who gives me pause is Brent Kitching, a prep superstar from Philadelphia -- who was so well regarded that Bubas used his last scholarship to get Kitching instead of Fred Hetzel. Of course, he could have gotten them both had he known that Bill Bradley was going to renege on his commitment at the last moment (meaning the day he was scheduled to enroll). I know that Kitching did start several games early in the 1965 season, but about all I remember of him was his prominent flat-top haircut.

[Tripping William]

is it just me or does anyone else hate watching ted valentine ref a game?

It's not just you. TV Teddy is, perhaps, the most inconsistent official I've seen. And I'm usually pretty measured about the refs. Plus, he sure had a bee in his bonnet about something-or-other Matt Jones did last night. From my vantage point (sans replay), I couldn't tell exactly what it was, but Teddy was hot.

[Tom B.]

It's not just you. TV Teddy is, perhaps, the most inconsistent official I've seen. And I'm usually pretty measured about the refs. Plus, he sure had a bee in his bonnet about something-or-other Matt Jones did last night. From my vantage point (sans replay), I couldn't tell exactly what it was, but Teddy was hot.

Dang, how old is Ted Valentine now? Seems like he's been around forever. He refereed Duke's famous upset of UNLV in the 1991 NCAA Tournament semifinal, over 25 years ago, and he was already an experienced official then, with many years of clashes with Bobby Knight already under his belt.

[Devilwin]

My favorite play was Giles' look away pass to Tatum for the layup.

[DukeFanSince1990]

My favorite play was Giles' look away pass to Tatum for the layup.

Agreed. It showed great basketball instincts and not just athleticism. Man oh man, when he gets full speed.......

[jipops]

I'm late to this party. Stupid work...

I mean wow, just wow. GTech is bad but they're still an ACC team. This was our best starting 5, but like K said in the post game he wants 7-8 guys with a starter's intellect. With Matt and Frank off the bench we have that. Harry showed he may actually get there. Hopefully we'll continue to see more from Bolden. In any case, I think we saw our 8 man rotation last night. What's crazy is we shot 51.6% from 3 even with Tatum only shooting 1-7. It was obvious that Grayson was instructed to get the offense started as soon as possible. GTech never seemed to get set on defense.

I try to never complain about officiating and usually this kind of thing is done in the context of a loss but the calls last night were just god awful. So many misses that were just blatantly obvious misses and made absolutely no sense. I certainly hope this is not a sign of things to come in ACC play. Yes, I know it was Ted Valentine.

[DukieInBrasil]

i noticed while watching the replay on ESPN3, that Jackson for GT, #1, was wearing his shorts inside out. Go to the foul that takes place at he 16:12 mark in the 2nd half. You'll see his shorts are on inside out!

[wilson]

Mmmm. Gimmie s'more of that. The bar has been set. I want to see that again, again, and again. Full throttle.


Here's the boxscore for that game:]Scoring was pretty balanced -- Duke had six guys in double figures, but only one over 20 (Jack Marin had 25).Doubly interesting in light of the fact that last night, Duke scored 110 without anyone going over 20. It's almost as if there's some sort of correlation between depth, balance, and peak offensive efficiency.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I know, because I was at that game just over 50 years ago. I kept checking the clock to see when we hit 100, and I think it was at 9:58 left in the game!��

After we pulled all the starters at about that point, the second team plus put up another 36 points in under 10 minutes.��

ricks

Ha - my dad was there too. Did you two sit next to each other?

[wilson]

Thanks for the link to this game. Something that caught my attention from the stat sheet is that everyone on the team scored. I imagine that doesn't happen too often. And what likely makes it unique is the fact that Burton Fitts (sorry, not a name I remember from when I was there), scored the only two points of his Duke career in that game.Burton Fitts is a great band name.

[szstark]

Thanks for the link to this game. Something that caught my attention from the stat sheet is that everyone on the team scored. I imagine that doesn't happen too often. And what likely makes it unique is the fact that Burton Fitts (sorry, not a name I remember from when I was there), scored the only two points of his Duke career in that game.

I used to play a lot of pickup games in Card. Burton Fitts would sometimes play and would be an absolute super star. It shows what even the last guy on the bench can do against ordinary human beings.

[ricks68]

Interesting to me, but the box score lists the starters for the Virginia visitors, but not for Duke. None of the stats from that era include starting info for that Duke team.

I can't swear for that night, but I know that Tison at center, Marin at forward, Vacendak and Verga at guard were definite starters. There were times during that era when Denny Ferguson started at guard and Vacendak moved over to "small forward". I know that's what turned the 1964 team around after a slow start -- moving Ferguson into the starting lineup. A year later, Bob Reidy became a fixture at PF, but I don't think he started as a junior. The guy who gives me pause is Brent Kitching, a prep superstar from Philadelphia -- who was so well regarded that Bubas used his last scholarship to get Kitching instead of Fred Hetzel. Of course, he could have gotten them both had he known that Bill Bradley was going to reneg on his commitment at the last moment (meaning the day he was scheduled to enroll). I know that Kitching did start several games early in the 1965 season, but about all I remember of him was his prominent flat-top haircut.

I would have probably put my money on Kitching for that game. I certainly don't remember who started each game at that time, but I do remember Kitching being in there a lot at the beginning of games, along with Verga, Marin and Hack. I also think that Feguson began starting at the beginning of the season, and was gradually replaced by Vacendak. But then, that was a long time ago for me to remember those kinds of details. (I definitely remember, however, that Hack Tison was my least favorite player on that team. Sigh.)

ricks

[ricks68]

Ha - my dad was there too. Did you two sit next to each other?

Maybe.;)

ricks

[Skydog]

I think Grayson will be much better perceived if he becomes a facilitator this year. All chances for POY are effectively out- the ACC media will lot let that happen. However, he can still pick his spots but driving and dishing can be a strength. This will change the perception of Grayson and make it easier on his teammates. Duke needs a passer- Grayson needs to show he is more than a ball dominant guard and if Duke wins- he wins. I think this was the message sent to him and I think he will embrace it. We will see next game.

It's not just this game - Grayson's focus on assists was just more pronounced and successful last night. But he has been passing up shots to get assists since the season started, sometime even when shooting or driving an open lane was the better % play. One of Grayson's major goals this season was been to develop his pg skills because the thinking was that he will be more successful in the NBA as a distributor than a shooting guard or pure driver/slasher. And last night when he passed up the simple layup to dish to Giles (?) my thought was he was probably doing it to help his assist #'s as much as being a nice team guy. That's not a knock on him at all - it's just him being smart about what he needs to do.

I've also thought that part of the reason he had looked out of sorts for much of the season (and resorted to his bad habit once) was precisely because he was changing his game and it wasn't going that well. The team lacked chemistry early on so it was not an easy team to find open cutters or build an assist resume with. This facilitator focus also took away many of his opportunities for his incredibly athletic - and likely cathartic - scoring drives to the basket, a big part of his competitive personality. It has to be frustrating when you are used to this kind of emphatic success and suddenly you have to change gears and it isn't going that well.

But the Duke team that played last night was a dream for our facilitator-in-training and I think that was part of the reason Grayson's smile was so big. I think the enforced break and of course winning big had a lot to do with it as well.

[Steven43]

My take on that play is Grayson gave Matt the ball in a terrible situation where he was almost certainly going to charge. A point guard needs to see the possibilities and avoid putting one of his players into a situation where he is likely to fail. other than that play though I thought Grayson did an admirable job of distribution.

Exactly right; Grayson should never have attempted that pass. That being said, a player with greater agility and body control than Matt Jones would likely have been able to avoid fouling. But a good PG needs to be able to assess everything--the defensive position, the situation in which he may attempt to pass, the capabilities of the player to whom he is passing--virtualy instantaneously. That is why there are so few great point guards. It's really really difficult.

[jimsumner]

I would have probably put my money on Kitching for that game. I certainly don't remember who started each game at that time, but I do remember Kitching being in there a lot at the beginning of games, along with Verga, Marin and Hack. I also think that Feguson began starting at the beginning of the season, and was gradually replaced by Vacendak. But then, that was a long time ago for me to remember those kinds of details. (I definitely remember, however, that Hack Tison was my least favorite player on that team. Sigh.)

ricks

Tison, Marin, Vacendak, Verga, Ferguson for most of the season. Kitching had his chances early but was unable to lock up a starting spot. Duke went small and it worked because the 6-1 Vacendak averaged almost seven rebounds per game as a small forward.

For the folks who keep stating that GT is a bad team, they're probably as good as Tennessee State and Elon, both of whom managed to keep their margin of defeat under 50 points.

Duke was really, really good last night. Scary good.

[jacone21]

It happened because the whippersnappers around here believe that great Duke basketball was invented by Coach K. We Crusties know better. Art Heyman is still possibly Duke's greatest player and Redick's 3 point form was an exact copy of Verga's (and Verga only got 2 points for his).

ricks

Did they stop the clock in order to get the ladder and retrieve the ball from the peach basket?


:p

[-jk]

For most teams, these guys would be two of the four or five most talented players on the team. For us, they are around #8 or #9.



He played the hand he was dealt. A cheap shot, but an easy laugh. Guy going in for surgery makes a decision some disagree with. It's like dunking on a 7' hoop.



More important: DID COACH K REALLY SAY THAT FEWER MINUTES MIGHT HELP MATT???????

This from the coach who has played 6 1/2 or 7 man rotations for years even with McD AAs flowing off the end of the bench?

This simply does not compute. DOES. NOT. COMPUTE.

K tracks relative performance to minutes played. Some players fade after too many minutes played, and K generally adjusts as he's able. The bench certainly helps in that regard - so long as the next, fresh one off the bench is better than the fading other.

-jk

[Duke76]

It's not just this game - Grayson's focus on assists was just more pronounced and successful last night. But he has been passing up shots to get assists since the season started, sometime even when shooting or driving an open lane was the better % play. One of Grayson's major goals this season was been to develop his pg skills because the thinking was that he will be more successful in the NBA as a distributor than a shooting guard or pure driver/slasher. And last night when he passed up the simple layup to dish to Giles (?) my thought was he was probably doing it to help his assist #'s as much as being a nice team guy. That's not a knock on him at all - it's just him being smart about what he needs to do.

I've also thought that part of the reason he had looked out of sorts for much of the season (and resorted to his bad habit once) was precisely because he was changing his game and it wasn't going that well. The team lacked chemistry early on so it was not an easy team to find open cutters or build an assist resume with. This facilitator focus also took away many of his opportunities for his incredibly athletic - and likely cathartic - scoring drives to the basket, a big part of his competitive personality. It has to be frustrating when you are used to this kind of emphatic success and suddenly you have to change gears and it isn't going that well.

But the Duke team that played last night was a dream for our facilitator-in-training and I think that was part of the reason Grayson's smile was so big. I think the enforced break and of course winning big had a lot to do with it as well.

agree wholeheartedly with these comments, hoping this is the new offense we see with Grayson with the ball facilitating the offense rather than the Matt Jones, the abilities to penetrate/dish or drive are noticeable different between the two. Matt is much better on a wing but also not starting...as a defensive "pick me up" if needed. Frank comes in to give Grayson a rest....Grayson sees the court better than anyone on the team...end of story imo. Let's hope this is the starting line up from here on out

[OZ]

Did they stop the clock in order to get the ladder and retrieve the ball from the peach basket?


:p

Nope, either Jay Buckley or "Hack" Tyson would reach in and retrieve it. BTW, Kennard's play is nothing new for Duke. His clone, Jack Marin did the same things in the sixties.

[Tripping William]

Nope, either Jay Buckley or "Hack" Tyson would reach in and retrieve it. BTW, Kennard's play is nothing new for Duke. His clone, Jack Marin did the same things in the sixties.

Was that before or after Dean invented pointing? :p

[Furniture]

I haven't seen this noted eslewhere, but perhaps worth a mention: of the ten Duke players who recorded more than three minutes against Georgia Tech, only one had NO personal fouls. Grayson Allen.

I have been a basketball and Duke fan since 2009 which was the year my daughter got accepted to Duke. That means that I don't have all the history of Coach K that many of you my fellow posters have.
In regards Grayson. Let's face it Grayson screwed up and there was some trauma there as well that needed healing. So if a big part of the healing is the fact that K has come with a 'new' role for him that not only heals him but also in a way completes the team it's an amazing thing. Too early to tell really but this for me could be K's biggest miracle yet.

[jv001]

Nope, either Jay Buckley or "Hack" Tyson would reach in and retrieve it. BTW, Kennard's play is nothing new for Duke. His clone, Jack Marin did the same things in the sixties.

Later on they passed that job to Mike Lewis. Not quite as tall but was terrific basketball player and not bad at retrieving the ball. :cool: GoDuke!

[BandAlum83]

I just rewatched the beginning of the game.

We actually score 19 points in the 3 minutes from 15:30 - 12:26.

Incredible.

[dukechem]

Nope, either Jay Buckley or "Hack" Tyson would reach in and retrieve it. BTW, Kennard's play is nothing new for Duke. His clone, Jack Marin did the same things in the sixties.

I, too, was at the game in 1965 although I don't remember any details. I have been meaning to comment that Kennard reminded me of Jack Marin. If I remember correctly, Marin had a successful pro career with the Baltimore Bullets (now the Washington Wizards). Believe it or not Marin was a chemistry major as I recall. I just missed out on being his lab instructor for Nuclear Chemistry. How many star players today are any kind of science major?

[kshepinthehouse]

is it just me or does anyone else hate watching ted valentine ref a game?

I hate it! I thought the ACC got rid of him.

[NSDukeFan]

Did they stop the clock in order to get the ladder and retrieve the ball from the peach basket?
I believe the sundial kept moving.

:p


Was that before or after Dean invented pointing? :p

It certainly wasn't too long before he started cheating.

[sagegrouse]

I, too, was at the game in 1965 although I don't remember any details. I have been meaning to comment that Kennard reminded me of Jack Marin. If I remember correctly, Marin had a successful pro career with the Baltimore Bullets (now the Washington Wizards). Believe it or not Marin was a chemistry major as I recall. I just missed out on being his lab instructor for Nuclear Chemistry. How many star players today are any kind of science major?

Jack was twice an NBA all-star (1971 and 1972) and, as a Bullet, was traded even-up for Elvin Hayes, one of the legends of the hoops world. Jack also later graduated from Duke Law School and is still listed as a practicing attorney in the Triangle area.

[OldPhiKap]

References to TV Ted Valentine and Dean Schnozola Smith on the same page. Should be a warning label first.

[Tripping William]

References to TV Ted Valentine and Dean Schnozola Smith on the same page. Should be a warning label first.

And both may be from me (although farther upthread). My bad. Self-flagellating now.

[duke74]

Jack was twice an NBA all-star (1971 and 1972) and, as a Bullet, was traded even-up for Elvin Hayes, one of the legends of the hoops world. Jack also later graduated from Duke Law School and is still listed as a practicing attorney in the Triangle area.

As a Knicks fan, I remember that he and Bill Bradley had some competitive matchups over the years when the Knicks played the Bullets. Unseld-Reed; DeBusschere-Johnson; Bradley-Marin.

Brings back memories.

http://www.nba.com/encyclopedia/knicks_bullets_rivalry.html

[FadedTackyShirt]

I, too, was at the game in 1965 although I don't remember any details. I have been meaning to comment that Kennard reminded me of Jack Marin. If I remember correctly, Marin had a successful pro career with the Baltimore Bullets (now the Washington Wizards). Believe it or not Marin was a chemistry major as I recall. I just missed out on being his lab instructor for Nuclear Chemistry. How many star players today are any kind of science major?

Hack Tison, Jeff Mullins, and Jack Marin were the catalysts to Duke's initial appearance on my childhood radar when I first started playing/following hoops in the early '70s.

Every time I watched a Warriors or Bullets game with my dad, he'd talk about the 1964 Duke F4 team featuring Mullins, Marin, and Tison. We lived in a Chicago suburb (Geneva) during Tison's high school years.

Scheyer's Illinois high school exploits reminded me a little bit of Geneva. They made a Hoosiers like improbable run in the Illinois state tournanent just after Hack started at Duke. Made it to the E8/F4 before losing to Carver/Chicago led by Cazzie Russell (whose Michigan team lost to Duke in the 1964 F4). Geneva's rival, Batavia, produced Dan Issel, who played for UK/Rupp in the late '60s.

Remember Marin's birthmark, but not much about his game. Vitale compares Luke to John Havlicek (skilled mid size OH prep) which I don't quite see. Is Marin (skilled mid size lefty) a better comparison than Hondo for Luke?

[Indoor66]

Later on they passed that job to Mike Lewis. Not quite as tall but was terrific basketball player and not bad at retrieving the ball. :cool: GoDuke!

Mike was the best post passer out of a defensive rebound that ever played at Duke. He was near West U.n.s.e.l.d good.
(Darn phone!)

[Saratoga2]

Exactly right; Grayson should never have attempted that pass. That being said, a player with greater agility and body control than Matt Jones would likely have been able to avoid fouling. But a good PG needs to be able to assess everything--the defensive position, the situation in which he may attempt to pass, the capabilities of the player to whom he is passing--virtualy instantaneously. That is why there are so few great point guards. It's really really difficult.

I agree that there are gifted players that might have had the body control to convert that pass into points or at least not a turnover. Grayson is learning to be a distributor and I certainly don't expect perfection from him. It is really difficult to be a PG and we have only had a few of the kids with the ball control, court vision, agility and intelligence to read game situations and make the proper move most of the time. Grayson's handle and agility are both good and he certainly has the game experience to understand what is going on. He may well make the jump into point guard status for this team.

[53n206]

If Grayson continues to develop as a PG might he be rewarded, by an improved draft position, if he stays another year to further hone his skills at that position

[jv001]

Mike was the best post passer out of a defensive rebound that ever played at Duke. He was near West U.n.s.e.l.d good.
(Darn phone!)

I think Mike was one of the two most under rated Duke players. The other was Randy Denton, both centers. During Mike's time at Duke, we were good and he was one of the reasons they were so good. If I'm not mistaken, State held the ball against us(no shot clock) and we had one of the lowest scoring games in ACC history. Maybe you remember more about the game than I do. Getting old dims the memory. GoDuke!

[killerleft]

Hack Tison, Jeff Mullins, and Jack Marin were the catalysts to Duke's initial appearance on my childhood radar when I first started playing/following hoops in the early '70s.

Every time I watched a Warriors or Bullets game with my dad, he'd talk about the 1964 Duke F4 team featuring Mullins, Marin, and Tison. We lived in a Chicago suburb (Geneva) during Tison's high school years.

Scheyer's Illinois high school exploits reminded me a little bit of Geneva. They made a Hoosiers like improbable run in the Illinois state tournanent just after Hack started at Duke. Made it to the E8/F4 before losing to Carver/Chicago led by Cazzie Russell (whose Michigan team lost to Duke in the 1964 F4). Geneva's rival, Batavia, produced Dan Issel, who played for UK/Rupp in the late '60s.

Remember Marin's birthmark, but not much about his game. Vitale compares Luke to John Havlicek (skilled mid size OH prep) which I don't quite see. Is Marin (skilled mid size lefty) a better comparison than Hondo for Luke?

I made this comparison before Vitale. That isn't a positive, I guess.:)

[Jeffrey]

Okay, so I was wrong. Harry knees look a lot healthier than they did 2 weeks ago. Are you really going to pretend like you know exactly how player injuries are going to play out? I also said in the VT Post-game thread that the Harry breakout is coming.

Let it go . . .

I think you missed my point. In two games you've gone from saying Harry will not start this season to he is a consideration for ACC POY. I'm not pointing out that you were wrong and must not have ever seen Harry play before (since Harry was already healthy when we were discussing whether he would start), I'm pointing out that your logic seems to be replaced by emotions. Luke has a better chance of being ACC POY than Harry. Unfortunately, Grayson has probably burned his chance, but he will also probably have a better overall season than Harry. And, Duke is not the only team in the ACC.

[jimsumner]

Marin wanted to go the med school. Which explains the Chem major. But after a long NBA career, he opted for the shorter law-school career path.

He also was a superb golfer and was very successful on the celebrity golf tour.

He's also the answer to a trivia question. He led the NBA in foul-shooting percentage in 1972. I'm reasonably certain he's still the only former Duke player to ever lead the NBA in a major statistical category.

Interestingly, Marin did not start for the 1964 Duke team, his sophomore season. Bubas went with twin towers Jay Buckley and Hack Tison, Jeff Mullins at small forward and Buzzy Harrison and Denny Ferguson at guards. Fellow sophomore Steve Vacendak also came off the bench.

I've always wondered what would have happened if Bubas had started Marin at forward, while moving Mullins to guard. But Harrison wasn't a playmaker, so he would have gone to the bench under this scenario and he was a senior, returning starter from a FF team and Bubas did value experience. And Harrison was good enough to make second-team All-ACC. And Mullins was a better forward than guard in those days.

Marin did have a great game off the bench against UCLA in the 1964 title game when Bubas tried to match UCLA's quickness by benching Tison for Marin.

A word on Tison. His given name is Haskell. Thus "Hack" is a variation of his given name, not a commentary on any propensity to foul. In fact, he was a very thin, long-armed, mobile rim protector. Had the ACC kept stats on blocked shots in those days, I suspect Tison would have led the league in 1964 and 1965.

Good times.

Kennard? Second coming of Chris Mullin. But I could live with Havlicek. :)

[devildeac]

References to TV Ted Valentine and Cheatin' Dean Schnozola Smith on the same page. Should be a warning label first.

Clarification. ;)

[devildeac]

I made this comparison before Vitale. That isn't a positive, I guess.:)

We'll all start to worry if DBR posters start comparing you to vitale...

:rolleyes:

[rsvman]

I'm reasonably certain he's still the only former Duke player to ever lead the NBA in a major statistical category.

I don't know what we should consider "major," but JJ Redick led the NBA in three-point shooting percentage just last season.

[rsvman]

Self-flagellating now.

Is that what they're calling it now?

[WV_Iron_Duke]

"Is Marin (skilled mid size lefty) a better comparison than Hondo for Luke?" Marin is a much better comparison. The main difference is that Luke is a pure 2 while Jack back then was a pure 3.

[tbyers11]

Great article from Duke Blue Planet about Harry Giles (https://dukeblueplanet.exposure.co/why-duke) and his decision to come to Duke and play after the 2nd knee injury. Very interesting comments about having to adjust to the speed of the ACC game.

I also think this meets the definition of "unpack your bags". I would guess that he hasn't spoken with his old coach Cory Alexander in awhile ;)

[Saratoga2]

I made this comparison before Vitale. That isn't a positive, I guess.:)

I watched Hondo play numerous games for the Celtics, so by then he would have become more mature than Luke is now. Hondo was about 6'5" and had incredible endurance, kind of like Scheyer in that respect, but quicker. I didn't think Hondo had that great a handle and didn't think he was as good a shooter as Luke is now. He was a great defender though. I don't see what Vitale sees to say they are similar other than they are both white.

Luke has size at 6'6" and over 200 #, along with a good handle, court vision and a very good shooting touch from a variety of ranges. I can't think of another guy who had quite the same talents. I do know we are lucky to have him in a Duke Uni.

[blUDAYvil]

Great article from Duke Blue Planet about Harry Giles (https://dukeblueplanet.exposure.co/why-duke) and his decision to come to Duke and play after the 2nd knee injury. Very interesting comments about having to adjust to the speed of the ACC game.

I also think this meets the definition of "unpack your bags". I would guess that he hasn't spoken with his old coach Cory Alexander in awhile ;)

Thanks for sharing. I'm impressed by his focus on rebounding as well.

[Duke76]

I agree that there are gifted players that might have had the body control to convert that pass into points or at least not a turnover. Grayson is learning to be a distributor and I certainly don't expect perfection from him. It is really difficult to be a PG and we have only had a few of the kids with the ball control, court vision, agility and intelligence to read game situations and make the proper move most of the time. Grayson's handle and agility are both good and he certainly has the game experience to understand what is going on. He may well make the jump into point guard status for this team.

pretty sure he was looking for the ball back...which would have been the thing for matt to do

[BD80]

I watched Hondo play numerous games for the Celtics, so by then he would have become more mature than Luke is now. Hondo was about 6'5" and had incredible endurance, kind of like Scheyer in that respect, but quicker. I didn't think Hondo had that great a handle and didn't think he was as good a shooter as Luke is now. He was a great defender though. I don't see what Vitale sees to say they are similar other than they are both white.

Luke has size at 6'6" and over 200 #, along with a good handle, court vision and a very good shooting touch from a variety of ranges. I can't think of another guy who had quite the same talents. I do know we are lucky to have him in a Duke Uni.

I see the similarity between Kennard and Havlicek - beyond white, 6'-5" guard/forward out of Ohio.

Hondo was clutch, the guy you wanted to have the ball in critical situations, never seemed out of control. You wondered how he could get shots off so cleanly when it didn't look like he was hurrying or jumping all that high.

I still think of Hondo in the 1976 triple overtime game in the finals against the Suns. Still may be the best basketball game I've ever seen (behind any game that Duke beats carolina, or any game carolina loses)

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

"Is Marin (skilled mid size lefty) a better comparison than Hondo for Luke?" Marin is a much better comparison. The main difference is that Luke is a pure 2 while Jack back then was a pure 3.

Hondo was a much better defensive player than Luke. At Ohio State, playing with center Jerry Lucas, Hondo was the defensive star of 3 final four teams (1960-62).

[FadedTackyShirt]

Kennard? Second coming of Chris Mullin. But I could live with Havlicek. :)

Have been wondering when someone would play the Mully card on Kennard. UVa had the next Havlicek (Chris) and Mullin (Willie Dersch) in the '90s and they were still Crotty.

Bob Sura comes up frequently as a Grayson comp. Think Spanarkel might be a better comp.

[Indoor66]

Hondo was a much better defensive player than Luke. At Ohio State, playing with center Jerry Lucas, Hondo was the defensive star of 3 final four teams (1960-62).

Those guys had a teammate at OSU named Bobby Knight, as well.

[Indoor66]

Have been wondering when someone would play the Mully card on Kennard. UVa had the next Havlicek (Chris) and Mullin (Willie Dersch) in the '90s and they were still Crotty.

Bob Sura comes up frequently as a Grayson comp. Think Spanarkel might be a better comp.

Spanarkle in mindset and intensity. Grayson is a far better athlete.

[jimsumner]

Marin was 6-6 in an era when 6-6 was a lot bigger than it is today. He was strictly a perimeter player in the NBA. But in the two seasons he started at Duke, he averaged around 10 rebounds per game.

That's where the Kennard-Marin comp gets shaky, IMO. And Marin was a plus defender at the college level. Which Kennard is not.

For a long time 6-6 ACC white guys who could score were compared to Jeff Lamp. Lamp was good enough to lead the ACC with 22.9 ppg in 1979. I could live with that.

Spanarkel was one of the most cerebral players I've ever seen in the ACC. The kind of player who could see the floor and imagine where each of the other nine guys would be four passes in the future if he did A, where they would be if he did B. And a decent athlete, good enough to pitch in the ACC before Duke hoops stopped ending its seasons in the ACC Tournament.

NBA guys say that Havlicek may have been the best-conditioned player in NBA history. No one worked harder to get open, beating opponents down the floor, coming off screen after screen, just running opponents into the ground. A grinder par excellence.

[Newton_14]

Great article from Duke Blue Planet about Harry Giles (https://dukeblueplanet.exposure.co/why-duke) and his decision to come to Duke and play after the 2nd knee injury. Very interesting comments about having to adjust to the speed of the ACC game.

I also think this meets the definition of "unpack your bags". I would guess that he hasn't spoken with his old coach Cory Alexander in awhile ;)

That's a really great article thanks for sharing! Man what a kid this is. Super grounded, wise beyond his years. Wish we could keep him longer than one year. Outstanding young man.

[du_bb1]

Great article from Duke Blue Planet about Harry Giles (https://dukeblueplanet.exposure.co/why-duke) and his decision to come to Duke and play after the 2nd knee injury. Very interesting comments about having to adjust to the speed of the ACC game.

I also think this meets the definition of "unpack your bags". I would guess that he hasn't spoken with his old coach Cory Alexander in awhile ;)

great article-Harry seems to 'get it' Hope the best for him.