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Olympic Fan
01-02-2017, 03:21 PM
New poll outs out today, which demonstrate the depth of the ACC:

Duke drops to No. 8, but still the top-ranked ACC team, just ahead of:

No. 9 Louisville
No. 11 Virginia
No. 12 Florida State
No. 16 UNC
No. 21 Virginia Tech
No. 23 Notre Dame

That's seven ACC teams in the top 25

Also:
No. 27 Clemson
No. 28 Miami

So NINE ACC teams in the top 28.

Two games tonite -- North Carolina at Clemson (7 p.m. ESPN2) and Boston College at Wake Forest (7 pm. RSN)

Interesting test for the Heels on the road against a very solid team.

Troublemaker
01-02-2017, 04:21 PM
Two games tonite -- North Carolina at Clemson (7 p.m. ESPN2) and Boston College at Wake Forest (7 pm. RSN)

Interesting test for the Heels on the road against a very solid team.

You're a day early as those games will be played tomorrow (Tuesday), but agree that I'm looking forward to UNC / Clemson.

Olympic Fan
01-02-2017, 07:10 PM
You're a day early as those games will be played tomorrow (Tuesday), but agree that I'm looking forward to UNC / Clemson.

Oops, my bad.

You are right -- no ACC hoops tonight (too bad).

UNC at Clemson and BC at Wake both Tuesday night.

devildeac
01-02-2017, 07:18 PM
Oops, my bad.

You are right -- no ACC hoops tonight (too bad).

UNC at Clemson and BC at Wake both Tuesday night.

Go Tigers!

Go Deacs!

pfrduke
01-02-2017, 11:46 PM
After a holiday week off (for me, not the league) and a Monday day off (for both of us), here's the lineup for Week 2 in ACC play. For this year, I've added the start-of-week conference records to the listing.

Tuesday
[21]Clemson (1-0) hosts [9]North Carolina (0-1) (7:00, ESPN2)
[44]Wake Forest (0-2) hosts [178]Boston College (1-0) (7:00, ACCN)

Wednesday
[7]Duke (0-1) hosts [130]Georgia Tech (1-0) (7:00, ESPN2)
[58]Syracuse (0-1) hosts [30]Miami (1-0) (7:00, ACCN)
[29]Notre Dame (1-0) hosts [9]Louisville (0-1) (9:00, ACCN)
[61]NC State (0-1) hosts [30]Virginia Tech (1-0) (9:00, ACCN)
[56]Pittsburgh (0-1) hosts [3]Virginia (1-1) (9:00, ACCN)

Thursday and Friday are dark

Saturday
[58]Syracuse (0-1) hosts [56]Pittsburgh (0-1) (12:00, ACCN)
[7]Duke (0-1) hosts [178]Boston College (1-0) (2:00, ACCN)
[20]Florida State (2-0) hosts [31]Virginia Tech (1-0) (2:00, ACCN)
[130]Georgia Tech (1-0) hosts [9]Louisville (0-1) (2:00, ACCN)
[29]Notre Dame (1-0) hosts [21]Clemson (1-0) (3:00, ESPNU)
[8]North Carolina (0-1) hosts [61]NC State (1-0) (8:00, ESPN)

Sunday
[3]Virginia (1-1) hosts [44]Wake Forest (0-2) (8:00, ESPN)

Dr. Rosenrosen
01-03-2017, 09:19 PM
Anyone see what set off Brownell at the end of the cheat-Clemson game? He was some kinda pissed off about something one of the cheats did.

DukeWarhead
01-03-2017, 09:22 PM
C'mon, Clemson. Dang!

Doria
01-03-2017, 09:25 PM
Anyone see what set off Brownell at the end of the cheat-Clemson game? He was some kinda pissed off about something one of the cheats did.

Yeah, I was wondering that, too. They both seemed pretty heated, but I didn't see anything obvious at the end of the game.

Troublemaker
01-03-2017, 09:34 PM
Clemson's Rivals reporter tweeted this:

Larry Williams ‏@LarryWilliamsTI (https://twitter.com/LarryWilliamsTI) 7m7 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/LarryWilliamsTI/status/816470356697419777)
I'm told Kennedy Meeks was yelling at Clemson's bench and that's why Brownell was giving Roy the business. Roy apologized, apparently.

DukieInBrasil
01-03-2017, 09:51 PM
Clemson got so close, but yet again, fall to the Holes. OT so close but no cigar.

BD80
01-03-2017, 10:35 PM
Clemson's Rivals reporter tweeted this:

Larry Williams ‏@LarryWilliamsTI (https://twitter.com/LarryWilliamsTI) 7m7 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/LarryWilliamsTI/status/816470356697419777)
I'm told Kennedy Meeks was yelling at Clemson's bench and that's why Brownell was giving Roy the business. Roy apologized, apparently.


video:

http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/watch-clemsons-coach-has-words-finger-pointing-for-roy-williams-in-handshake-line/

devildeac
01-03-2017, 10:40 PM
video:

http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/watch-clemsons-coach-has-words-finger-pointing-for-roy-williams-in-handshake-line/

Might not have happened if @#$%ing clumpson had made the front end of a 1 and 1 with about 5 seconds to go. Yet another feline hairball while playing the lying, cheating vermin from chappaheeya.

DukieInBrasil
01-03-2017, 11:39 PM
Might not have happened if @#$%ing clumpson had made the front end of a 1 and 1 with about 5 seconds to go. Yet another feline hairball while playing the lying, cheating vermin from chappaheeya.

Vs. UNC they may as well be the Clemson Chokers.
Such a shame, would love to see UNCheats at 0-2 in ACC play.

FerryFor50
01-04-2017, 09:52 AM
Clemson's Rivals reporter tweeted this:

Larry Williams ‏@LarryWilliamsTI (https://twitter.com/LarryWilliamsTI) 7m7 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/LarryWilliamsTI/status/816470356697419777)
I'm told Kennedy Meeks was yelling at Clemson's bench and that's why Brownell was giving Roy the business. Roy apologized, apparently.


2nd time Roy's had to apologize in the handshake line. (Seventh Woods anyone?)

Maybe Roy should do less apologizing and more punishing.

Tom B.
01-04-2017, 10:16 AM
Might not have happened if @#$%ing clumpson had made the front end of a 1 and 1 with about 5 seconds to go. Yet another feline hairball while playing the lying, cheating vermin from chappaheeya.

Yeah, Clemson certainly had their chances. But they took some ill-advised shots down the stretch, had two or three key turnovers, and missed some free throws in overtime, too.



Maybe Roy should do less apologizing and more punishing.

Oh, I'm sure Meeks will now feel the pain of not getting to pick the restaurant for the team meal.

If Roy's feeling particularly sadistic, he might even bring out...the Soft Cushions and the Comfy Chair!

nmduke2001
01-04-2017, 10:59 AM
Not very important but did anyone else notice that many of the UNC players uniforms didn't match? The shorts and the tops were different shades of that terrible blue. It was really weird. You can see it in the 4th (Jackson) and 5th (berry) thumbnails here.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/video?gameId=400915354

You'd think that Jordan Brand would get the color right on their most recognizable team.

jjasper0729
01-04-2017, 11:01 AM
Not very important but did anyone else notice that many of the UNC players uniforms didn't match? The shorts and the tops were different shades of that terrible blue. It was really weird. You can see it in the 4th (Jackson) and 5th (berry) thumbnails here.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/video?gameId=400915354

You'd think that Jordan Brand would get the color right on their most recognizable team.

Noticed that too in the second half when Clemson was missing some free throws. I chalked it up to sweat on the jersey (although it was a solid color and not spotty) and the likely hood of wearing compression shorts under the hideous ones.

CDu
01-04-2017, 11:05 AM
Not very important but did anyone else notice that many of the UNC players uniforms didn't match? The shorts and the tops were different shades of that terrible blue. It was really weird. You can see it in the 4th (Jackson) and 5th (berry) thumbnails here.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/video?gameId=400915354

You'd think that Jordan Brand would get the color right on their most recognizable team.


Noticed that too in the second half when Clemson was missing some free throws. I chalked it up to sweat on the jersey (although it was a solid color and not spotty) and the likely hood of wearing compression shorts under the hideous ones.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was sweat-related. Note that the guys who played less didn't have a noticeable color difference between shirt and short.

nmduke2001
01-04-2017, 11:14 AM
Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was sweat-related. Note that the guys who played less didn't have a noticeable color difference between shirt and short.

I don't think that it was sweat-related. There were a few guys on the bench that had the darker color on both the shorts and tops while a few others had the lighter color on both. Plus, there wasn't any spotting that is usually associated with sweat.

CDu
01-04-2017, 11:33 AM
I don't think that it was sweat-related. There were a few guys on the bench that had the darker color on both the shorts and tops while a few others had the lighter color on both. Plus, there wasn't any spotting that is usually associated with sweat.

I just flipped on the replay on WatchESPN, and I'm 100% positive it is sweat-related. Berry's and Jackson's jerseys match their shorts at the beginning of the game, but their jerseys get darker as the game goes on. Same for Maye and Bradley. Meeks is the only one whose jersey didn't match the shorts at the opening tip. I chalk that up to the fact that he doesn't seem to wear an undershirt and the probability that (as a fatty) he sweats more than the other guys.

Also, I see some "spotting" on Williams' jersey. And Bradley's jersey as the game goes on gets darker in the back than the front.

devildeac
01-04-2017, 11:42 AM
Yeah, Clemson certainly had their chances. But they took some ill-advised shots down the stretch, had two or three key turnovers, and missed some free throws in overtime, too.




Oh, I'm sure Meeks will now feel the pain of not getting to pick the restaurant for the team meal.

If Roy's feeling particularly sadistic, he might even bring out...the Soft Cushions and the Comfy Chair!

Hence the term "clemsoning/clemsoned" or whatever we call it here. :mad:

arnie
01-04-2017, 12:14 PM
I just flipped on the replay on WatchESPN, and I'm 100% positive it is sweat-related. Berry's and Jackson's jerseys match their shorts at the beginning of the game, but their jerseys get darker as the game goes on. Same for Maye and Bradley. Meeks is the only one whose jersey didn't match the shorts at the opening tip. I chalk that up to the fact that he doesn't seem to wear an undershirt and the probability that (as a fatty) he sweats more than the other guys.

Also, I see some "spotting" on Williams' jersey. And Bradley's jersey as the game goes on gets darker in the back than the front.

You guys enjoy very interesting lives.😎

nmduke2001
01-04-2017, 12:28 PM
I just flipped on the replay on WatchESPN, and I'm 100% positive it is sweat-related. Berry's and Jackson's jerseys match their shorts at the beginning of the game, but their jerseys get darker as the game goes on. Same for Maye and Bradley. Meeks is the only one whose jersey didn't match the shorts at the opening tip. I chalk that up to the fact that he doesn't seem to wear an undershirt and the probability that (as a fatty) he sweats more than the other guys.

Also, I see some "spotting" on Williams' jersey. And Bradley's jersey as the game goes on gets darker in the back than the front.

That is upper level investigating.

Indoor66
01-04-2017, 12:57 PM
You guys enjoy very interesting lives.��

Amazing, isn't it? The real explanation, I am told by a crack investigative reporter associated with the Four Letter Phonies, is that there was too much bleach in the wash water for a couple of loads. :cool:

CDu
01-04-2017, 01:13 PM
You guys enjoy very interesting lives.😎


That is upper level investigating.

I had a few minutes to kill between meetings this morning, and that research seemed slightly more entertaining to do than try to respond to work emails that I could postpone (procrastination tips 101 ;)).

BD80
01-04-2017, 02:07 PM
... research seemed slightly more entertaining to do than try to respond to work emails that I could postpone (procrastination tips 101 ;)).

Procrastination 101? I've been meaning to take that ...

alteran
01-04-2017, 02:13 PM
Amazing, isn't it? The real explanation, I am told by a crack investigative reporter associated with the Four Letter Phonies, is that there was too much bleach in the wash water for a couple of loads. :cool:

Hmmm. So, apparently, UNC’s white-washing covers all aspects of the basketball program, not just the cheating.

devildeac
01-04-2017, 02:13 PM
Procrastination 101? I've been meaning to take that ...

Too late, but, there's a "retired" academic "advisor" who might be able to get you into that upper level course and arrange a good grade.

BD80
01-04-2017, 02:43 PM
Too late, but, there's a "retired" academic "advisor" who might be able to get you into that upper level course and arrange a good grade.

Can one "put off" doing something that one is not required nor expected to do?

CDu
01-04-2017, 02:43 PM
Clemson's Rivals reporter tweeted this:

Larry Williams ‏@LarryWilliamsTI (https://twitter.com/LarryWilliamsTI) 7m7 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/LarryWilliamsTI/status/816470356697419777)
I'm told Kennedy Meeks was yelling at Clemson's bench and that's why Brownell was giving Roy the business. Roy apologized, apparently.


Good on both coaches by the way for not airing the dirty laundry to the media. Both went with the "that's between me and the other coach" response. Well handled.


2nd time Roy's had to apologize in the handshake line. (Seventh Woods anyone?)

Maybe Roy should do less apologizing and more punishing.

I'm all for making fun of UNC, but let's be fair here. In light of the third tripping incident by Allen (and while I agree it has been overblown by the media, it's still a bad look for Allen and Duke), maybe we shouldn't be casting stones on this front? Especially given that it appears to be two entirely unrelated types of incidents with UNC recently (bush-league stat-padding by Woods at the end of a blowout versus Meeks apparently saying something offensive to the Clemson bench in a close game).

elvis14
01-04-2017, 04:29 PM
Might not have happened if @#$%ing clumpson had made the front end of a 1 and 1 with about 5 seconds to go. Yet another feline hairball while playing the lying, cheating vermin from chappaheeya.

This...so bummed that FT was missed. All he had to do was hit that FT and the cheats lose.


Hence the term "clemsoning/clemsoned" or whatever we call it here. :mad:

That term is a thing of the past. Dabo killed it, we don't call it here there or anywhere anymore.

OldPhiKap
01-04-2017, 05:04 PM
That term is a thing of the past. Dabo killed it, we don't call it here there or anywhere anymore.

We will find out on Monday. Go Tigers.

devildeac
01-04-2017, 05:13 PM
Can one "put off" doing something that one is not required nor expected to do?

I dunno. Lemme procrastinate on that one a bit.:o

devildeac
01-04-2017, 05:30 PM
Even the Weather Channel is reading DBR (and must not be owned by espn). They're predicting the low for Sunday night in Raleigh to be...

9F.

rasputin
01-04-2017, 05:32 PM
Even the Weather Channel is reading DBR (and must not be owned by espn). They're predicting the low for Sunday night in Raleigh to be...

9F.

I can't spork you, devildeac, but that's awesome.

devildeac
01-04-2017, 05:36 PM
I can't spork you, devildeac, but that's awesome.

A sincere thank you.

Indoor66
01-04-2017, 05:43 PM
A sincere thank you.

I tried but got the dreaded spread it around message. And some think DBR does not deal in Manure! :mad::o:cool:

Newton_14
01-04-2017, 10:05 PM
State is killing Vatech in Raleigh. 55-30 at the half. Talk about an "after upsetting Duke" hangover!

2nd half getting ready to start.

The wackiness of college hoops! Vatech slams Duke, Gatech handles uncCheat pulling away down the stretch, uncCheat upsets a good Clemson team on the road, Duke kills Gatech by like 60, NC State up 25 on Vatech at the half.. it all makes sense, right?

lotusland
01-04-2017, 10:18 PM
All rolling tonight,

dukelifer
01-04-2017, 10:38 PM
State is killing Vatech in Raleigh. 55-30 at the half. Talk about an "after upsetting Duke" hangover!

2nd half getting ready to start.

The wackiness of college hoops! Vatech slams Duke, Gatech handles uncCheat pulling away down the stretch, uncCheat upsets a good Clemson team on the road, Duke kills Gatech by like 60, NC State up 25 on Vatech at the half.. it all makes sense, right?

What a shocker. Va Tech could not match the intensity they played with against Duke.

devildeac
01-04-2017, 10:40 PM
What a shocker. Va Tech could not match the intensity they played with against Duke.

You are correct. Duke curse/hangover. :rolleyes:

Duke79UNLV77
01-04-2017, 10:53 PM
Bad end of regulation D by Pitt. Should have fouled Perrantes or at least been in his face up 3 in the last 3 seconds.

CameronDuke
01-04-2017, 11:27 PM
Bad end of regulation D by Pitt. Should have fouled Perrantes or at least been in his face up 3 in the last 3 seconds.

It shouldn't have even been that close at the end. Pitt was 8-16 from the free throw line in regulation. 8-16! If they make one more free throw they would have defeated Virginia in regulation and if they shot even a mediocre clip from the charity stripe in regulation (like 11-16) that shot wouldn't have even mattered. Tough shot though by Perrantes who did a smug celebration/hand gyration of smelling his fingers after the made basket that rubbed me the wrong way.

DukieInBrasil
01-04-2017, 11:29 PM
if you had been asked what is the only ACC team that will start 0-2? BC, GT, maybe Wake?
Louisville, it's Louisville. One of the "Tier 1" teams in the conference. They lost to UVA (a fellow "Tier 1" team) and Notre Dame (#23, supposedly "Tier 2"). Duke on the other hand is 1-1 after playing 2 teams not in the Top-25 at the time, a "Tier 2" and "Tier 3". Rough start for Louisville, but they could pick up a pair of wins before coming to Duke, and hopefully falling to 2-3 in ACC play.

BandAlum83
01-05-2017, 12:35 AM
What a shocker. Va Tech could not match the intensity they played with against Duke.

Duke always gets everyone's best shot. It makes sustained excellence even more remarkable.

Olympic Fan
01-05-2017, 01:11 AM
if you had been asked what is the only ACC team that will start 0-2? BC, GT, maybe Wake?
Louisville, it's Louisville. One of the "Tier 1" teams in the conference. They lost to UVA (a fellow "Tier 1" team) and Notre Dame (#23, supposedly "Tier 2"). Duke on the other hand is 1-1 after playing 2 teams not in the Top-25 at the time, a "Tier 2" and "Tier 3". Rough start for Louisville, but they could pick up a pair of wins before coming to Duke, and hopefully falling to 2-3 in ACC play.

Actually, Wake Forest also started 0-2 in the ACC. They are 1-2 at the moment after beating BC at home Monday night.

PackMan97
01-05-2017, 07:33 AM
What a shocker. Va Tech could not match the intensity they played with against Duke.

Or maybe State is actually that much better?

:o

ok...I didn't say that with a straight face.

sagegrouse
01-05-2017, 08:44 AM
Lessee....

State 104, Va Tech 78 (+26)
Va Tech 89, Duke 75 (+14)
Duke 110, Ga Tech 57 (+53)
Ga Tech 75, UNC 63 (+12)

State should be favored over UNC by 105 points? Will it be a disappointment to their fans if the Pack only win by 50?

devildeac
01-05-2017, 09:30 AM
Lessee...

State 104, Va Tech 78 (+26)
Va Tech 89, Duke 75 (+14)
Duke 110, Ga Tech 57 (+53)
Ga Tech 75, UNC 63 (+12)

State should be favored over UNC by 105 points? Will it be a disappointment to their fans if the Pack only win by 50?

One point or 101 points? Don't matter to me. Go Pack!

Indoor66
01-05-2017, 09:52 AM
82 - 50. 'NUFF said.

jhmoss1812
01-05-2017, 12:52 PM
It shouldn't have even been that close at the end. Pitt was 8-16 from the free throw line in regulation. 8-16! If they make one more free throw they would have defeated Virginia in regulation and if they shot even a mediocre clip from the charity stripe in regulation (like 11-16) that shot wouldn't have even mattered. Tough shot though by Perrantes who did a smug celebration/hand gyration of smelling his fingers after the made basket that rubbed me the wrong way.

I think you're severely underrating our FT defense :)

devildeac
01-05-2017, 01:12 PM
I think you're severely underrating our FT defense :)

Shouldn't that be eFT% defense?

;)

jhmoss1812
01-05-2017, 02:28 PM
Shouldn't that be eFT% defense?

;)

Yes, my mistake.

As for UVA, we are a very average team this year, especially following the suspension of Nichols. We just have no interior post scoring and are having trouble rebounding. Also, FSU shot 53.3% from 3 and Pitt shot 61.9%. Yikes. Add in the fact that we were outshot 52-10 from the FT line in those 2 games and you have a recipe for a lot of losses. The only upside is that, even with those shooting percentages from our opponents, we lost by 2 to FSU and in OT to Pitt. I'm trying to take solace in that.

COYS
01-05-2017, 03:11 PM
I know the ACC regular season crown is not as meaningful as it once was, but this year's "race" for the title is shaping up to be quite interesting.

Doria
01-05-2017, 03:18 PM
I know the ACC regular season crown is not as meaningful as it once was, but this year's "race" for the title is shaping up to be quite interesting.

I agree. It's exciting to feel like anything can happen on any given night (er, hopefully with the teams not named Duke). Now, "anything" likely won't, but it's still fun and makes me more interested in games I'd normally never check in on.

newclasspack
01-05-2017, 04:12 PM
I really wanna thank you guys for deciding Frank Jackson was the way to go for PG and not pursuing Dennis Smith Super hard. Like from the bottom of my heart i really appreciate that.

tbyers11
01-05-2017, 04:32 PM
I really wanna thank you guys for deciding Frank Jackson was the way to go for PG and not pursuing Dennis Smith Super hard. Like from the bottom of my heart i really appreciate that.

No problem :D. Although, I think you should also give a big shout out to Adidas on that one.

PackMan97
01-05-2017, 04:35 PM
Lessee...

State 104, Va Tech 78 (+26)
Va Tech 89, Duke 75 (+14)
Duke 110, Ga Tech 57 (+53)
Ga Tech 75, UNC 63 (+12)

State should be favored over UNC by 105 points? Will it be a disappointment to their fans if the Pack only win by 50?

If State wins by 105 points, I'l change the names of my boys to Sage and Grouse.

Doria
01-05-2017, 04:36 PM
I really wanna thank you guys for deciding Frank Jackson was the way to go for PG and not pursuing Dennis Smith Super hard. Like from the bottom of my heart i really appreciate that.

I feel the best way to thank us would be to win your game on Saturday. ;)

UrinalCake
01-05-2017, 04:39 PM
I really wanna thank you guys for deciding Frank Jackson was the way to go for PG and not pursuing Dennis Smith Super hard. Like from the bottom of my heart i really appreciate that.

I believe at the time that Duke was recruiting Derryck Thornton and Dennis Smith Jr. They thought that Tyus would be here for 3-4 years so they didn't need a point guard in the 2015 class. But then when Tyus left earlier than expected, the staff was stuck and Thortnon was able to reclassify and come early while Smith was not, so the decision was kind of made for them. Not sure if we continued to recruit Smith as well but I don't believe they did. I guess it should also be noted that around the time of their junior years, Thornton and Smith were both ranked very highly and I believe Thornton may have even been ranked higher.

Smith is awesome though. A legitimate contender for the overall #1 pack in this class that is absolutely loaded.

newclasspack
01-05-2017, 05:15 PM
I feel the best way to thank us would be to win your game on Saturday. ;)Yes... i believe that arrangement will work nicely.

newclasspack
01-05-2017, 05:16 PM
I believe at the time that Duke was recruiting Derryck Thornton and Dennis Smith Jr. They thought that Tyus would be here for 3-4 years so they didn't need a point guard in the 2015 class. But then when Tyus left earlier than expected, the staff was stuck and Thortnon was able to reclassify and come early while Smith was not, so the decision was kind of made for them. Not sure if we continued to recruit Smith as well but I don't believe they did. I guess it should also be noted that around the time of their junior years, Thornton and Smith were both ranked very highly and I believe Thornton may have even been ranked higher.

Smith is awesome though. A legitimate contender for the overall #1 pack in this class that is absolutely loaded.Yea that sounds right. At the time Thornton was the number 2 consensus PG with one site having him number one. Smith was the number 1 consensus with 1 site having him number 2.

wilson
01-05-2017, 05:26 PM
A sincere thank you.My goodness, this is outstanding.
ETA: I meant the original 9F post. I am an idiot and quoted incorrectly.

brevity
01-07-2017, 12:52 PM
Pitt with the late first-half run so that Syracuse now has only twice as many points: 42-21. Needless to say, the game is at Syracuse.

It's almost as if we shouldn't read too much into any ACC home win or any ACC road loss. Fortunately DBR is way too smart to draw such conclusions from recent conference games in Blacksburg and Durham.

Indoor66
01-07-2017, 12:58 PM
Pitt with the late first-half run so that Syracuse now has only twice as many points: 42-21. Needless to say, the game is at Syracuse.

It's almost as if we shouldn't read too much into any ACC home win or any ACC road loss. Fortunately DBR is way too smart to draw such conclusions from recent conference games in Blacksburg and Durham.

Around here we can't know until the advanced analytics are compiled and reviewed.:cool:

Bob Green
01-08-2017, 12:40 PM
Reminder: State at Carolina will tip at 1:00 pm with TV coverage by ESPN. I intend to flip back-n-forth between this game and the Steelers/Dolphins, which guarantees I miss all the best plays in both games. :cool:

Duke79UNLV77
01-08-2017, 01:09 PM
NC State playing terribly at the start.

brevity
01-08-2017, 01:12 PM
Man vs. machine (https://mobile.twitter.com/stephenschramm/status/818153944602017792).

Stephen Schramm ‏@stephenschramm

Just passed Tyler Hansbrough getting his dollar rejected by Dean Dome drink machines. Don't matter who you are, those things will screw you.

9:54 AM - 8 Jan 2017

Ben Swain ‏@TheBenSwain

@stephenschramm was the drink machine called for a foul?

9:55 AM - 8 Jan 2017

dukelifer
01-08-2017, 01:14 PM
NC State playing terribly at the start.

Young guys in a rivalry game on the road- does not bode well

Dr. Rosenrosen
01-08-2017, 01:16 PM
NC State playing terribly at the start.
They'd be in better shape if they were just playing terribly.

CameronBlue
01-08-2017, 01:21 PM
They'd be in better shape if they were just playing terribly.

Carolina pace for a 92-16 beatdown. Gee wonder if State can cover? Bye bye 500 points.

dukelifer
01-08-2017, 01:26 PM
Carolina pace for a 92-16 beatdown. Gee wonder if State can cover? Bye bye 500 points.

92? Right now 120. State will score at least 50 when the scrubs come in

Dr. Rosenrosen
01-08-2017, 01:30 PM
I mean I could have put together a better game plan than whatever Gottfried is doing here. Unbelievable.

uh_no
01-08-2017, 01:30 PM
carolina pace for a 92-16 beatdown. Gee wonder if state can cover? Bye bye 500 points.

uncle!!!

DukieInBrasil
01-08-2017, 01:33 PM
watching State vs UNCheat on ESPN3 "Above the Rim" which apparently means "no announcers". It's interesting how much more enjoyable it is to watch w/o the blathering.
On the flip side, it's depressing how poorly State has played so far. Dennis Smith Jr with 4 turns already and 3 fouls. Unsure if that is due to the refs just allowing UNCheaters to foul to steal the ball or what.
Ed: ESPN just changed the box score to give DS Jr 3 turns, not 4.

Duke79UNLV77
01-08-2017, 01:34 PM
Has there been a college player who has progressed worse with weight issues than Anya? I really thought he had potential if he ever could have gotten in decent shape.

Dr. Rosenrosen
01-08-2017, 01:37 PM
Looks like a rec league team stole NCSU uniforms and showed up instead.

Tripping William
01-08-2017, 01:37 PM
Who are these kids in white actually playing defense?

CameronBlue
01-08-2017, 01:39 PM
Right after the NCAA strips the Cheats of about 8 titles between MBB and WSOC how about kicking State out for impersonating college basketball players? Mother J McCree, I didn't start caring about their fraternal blood feud until I joined that damn degenerates game.

uh_no
01-08-2017, 01:39 PM
watching State vs UNCheat on ESPN3 "Above the Rim" which apparently means "no announcers". It's interesting how much more enjoyable it is to watch w/o the blathering.
On the flip side, it's depressing how poorly State has played so far. Dennis Smith Jr with 4 turns already and 3 fouls. Unsure if that is due to the refs just allowing UNCheaters to foul to steal the ball or what.
Ed: ESPN just changed the box score to give DS Jr 3 turns, not 4.

jesus. any thing is more tolerable than trying to listen to bilas conveniently ignore that UNC got blown out by GT last week....

Dr. Rosenrosen
01-08-2017, 01:39 PM
Luke Maye looks like a player straight out of the 1950s

DinoDuke
01-08-2017, 01:41 PM
NC state making Luke Maye look like a world beater. This game is hard to watch.

DukieInBrasil
01-08-2017, 01:55 PM
NC state making Luke Maye look like a world beater. This game is hard to watch.

State looks like they're scared to play. Of course, ever since i turned on the game DS Jr hasn't played. They've missed 6 FTs since i've been watching, and they've made Luke Maye look like an All-American.

Doria
01-08-2017, 01:57 PM
State looks like they're scared to play. Of course, ever since i turned on the game DS Jr hasn't played. They've missed 6 FTs since i've been watching, and they've made Luke Maye look like an All-American.

Yeah, I watched the first ten mins. just to see DSJ play. Whoops... Wrong game for that. Needless to say, my afternoon work that I was procrastinating looks a whole lot more appealing (as does housework, errands, and cleaning my bathroom).

dukelifer
01-08-2017, 02:56 PM
jesus. any thing is more tolerable than trying to listen to bilas conveniently ignore that UNC got blown out by GT last week...

Based on everything I have seen today- if UNC was in the National Championship game against State- they would win by 50.

sagegrouse
01-08-2017, 03:45 PM
Hah! UNC was a 105-point underdog (by my comparative score calculation) and won by 51 points. What the hell is going on this season?

duketaylor
01-08-2017, 05:26 PM
I thought they should've boarded the bus at the half and gone back to Raleigh.

Watch, they'll play totally differently against Duke and maybe win. Why not even compete against the 'Holes? That's your true rival.

If I were a Wolfie I'd be embarrassed. Boot the coach, kinda like Auburn/Alabama or Florida/ UGA in football. Or Texas/OU. Gotta win these games, at least sometimes. No excuse to get crushed.

DukieInBrasil
01-08-2017, 05:29 PM
well, after relatively few of them over the years, the ACC now has 2 separate 50+ pt wins in the same week. I'm not sure NCSU could play any worse if they wanted to. I only watched the second half of the first half (from ~10:00 left to play) and saw 3 consecutive trips down the court where NCSU didn't score, and UNCheat scored on all 3, one a 3pt play, one a 3 and one 2FG, for an 8pt balloon to their lead in about a minute and a half. NCSU hardly ever got a stop in the first half, and State struggled to do anything positive.
UNCheaters did a great job of taking DS Jr out of the game though due to foul trouble, but also by forcing lots of turns. He shot poorly overall and ended with more turns than assists. Tbh, State didn't play well when DS Jr was in t he game either.
I hope the absence of Amile (however long that might be) doesn't do to Duke what missing DS Jr did to State.

BD80
01-08-2017, 06:09 PM
jesus. any thing is more tolerable than trying to listen to bilas conveniently ignore that UNC got blown out by GT last week...

Beauty of it is that this is probably the script he was given by the unc SID. The entire carolina staff is wishing the GT game away. No worries, it never happened. No need to learn anything from it.

Wheat/"/"/"
01-08-2017, 06:47 PM
Crazy ACC season as always. Teams need to bring it every night against everyone.

Hopefully the Heels learned that at GT, they were engaged from the start in this one.

Always good to spank the Pack, I doubt we'll be hearing the old tired song that Roy can't coach defense from them for a while. They will need to get a coach to build a program or things will never change. One hot shot player will never be enough in this league, you've go to build a team.

Sorry to see the injuries mounting up for Duke. Amile's loss is an especially unfortunate thing to see. I'm a fan of his hard work over his career to be a better player. It's a shame to see a player like Anya throw away his talent for lack of disipline. And that's on Gottfried for not getting thru to him, unlike how Roy got thru to Meeks during his career.

Amile was leading a Duke team that I personally don't think has played very well this season, (to my expectations). Overall, the schedule's been light to this point, the good teams that were on the schedule played poorly and I don't think we've seen Duke play at a high level so far. (Close game, but I didn't think the Kansas game was played at a very high level of play from either side).

There's been some games Duke has shot well, very well, and Kennard has been a steady positive influence with his quality play. But I've been waiting to comment on this years team because I wanted to see a full team, but coming into the first serious stretch of the season, it doesn't look like it's going to happen.

Duke better find some mojo quick. The defense and rebounding is about to be seriously tested from here on out. They will need to greatly improve the D from what I've seen. Great shooting can't be counted on game in and game out.

We are about to see if they can live up to the preseason hype.

Wheat/"/"/"
01-08-2017, 06:54 PM
Beauty of it is that this is probably the script he was given by the unc SID. The entire carolina staff is wishing the GT game away. No worries, it never happened. No need to learn anything from it.

Games like that happen in college ball. It can be frustrating, but it's just the way it is.

dukelifer
01-08-2017, 11:20 PM
Crazy ACC season as always. Teams need to bring it every night against everyone.

Hopefully the Heels learned that at GT, they were engaged from the start in this one.

Always good to spank the Pack, I doubt we'll be hearing the old tired song that Roy can't coach defense from them for a while. They will need to get a coach to build a program or things will never change. One hot shot player will never be enough in this league, you've go to build a team.

Sorry to see the injuries mounting up for Duke. Amile's loss is an especially unfortunate thing to see. I'm a fan of his hard work over his career to be a better player. It's a shame to see a player like Anya throw away his talent for lack of disipline. And that's on Gottfried for not getting thru to him, unlike how Roy got thru to Meeks during his career.

Amile was leading a Duke team that I personally don't think has played very well this season, (to my expectations). Overall, the schedule's been light to this point, the good teams that were on the schedule played poorly and I don't think we've seen Duke play at a high level so far. (Close game, but I didn't think the Kansas game was played at a very high level of play from either side).

There's been some games Duke has shot well, very well, and Kennard has been a steady positive influence with his quality play. But I've been waiting to comment on this years team because I wanted to see a full team, but coming into the first serious stretch of the season, it doesn't look like it's going to happen.

Duke better find some mojo quick. The defense and rebounding is about to be seriously tested from here on out. They will need to greatly improve the D from what I've seen. Great shooting can't be counted on game in and game out.

We are about to see if they can live up to the preseason hype.

The preseason hype was based on a healthy Duke team- that ended on day 1. This team will get better- the question is whether the runway is long enough to get into gear. We shall see. Losing Amile will shorten that runway even more-may just be one of those years.

norduck
01-09-2017, 12:05 AM
Crazy ACC season as always. Teams need to bring it every night against everyone.

Hopefully the Heels learned that at GT, they were engaged from the start in this one.

Always good to spank the Pack, I doubt we'll be hearing the old tired song that Roy can't coach defense from them for a while. They will need to get a coach to build a program or things will never change. One hot shot player will never be enough in this league, you've go to build a team.

Sorry to see the injuries mounting up for Duke. Amile's loss is an especially unfortunate thing to see. I'm a fan of his hard work over his career to be a better player. It's a shame to see a player like Anya throw away his talent for lack of disipline. And that's on Gottfried for not getting thru to him, unlike how Roy got thru to Meeks during his career.

Amile was leading a Duke team that I personally don't think has played very well this season, (to my expectations). Overall, the schedule's been light to this point, the good teams that were on the schedule played poorly and I don't think we've seen Duke play at a high level so far. (Close game, but I didn't think the Kansas game was played at a very high level of play from either side).

There's been some games Duke has shot well, very well, and Kennard has been a steady positive influence with his quality play. But I've been waiting to comment on this years team because I wanted to see a full team, but coming into the first serious stretch of the season, it doesn't look like it's going to happen.

Duke better find some mojo quick. The defense and rebounding is about to be seriously tested from here on out. They will need to greatly improve the D from what I've seen. Great shooting can't be counted on game in and game out.

We are about to see if they can live up to the preseason hype.

And the Cheat rolls on. Beware what lies ahead.

westwall
01-09-2017, 12:10 AM
Hah! UNC was a 105-point underdog (by my comparative score calculation) and won by 51 points. What the hell is going on this season?


March Madness has moved up by two months, due to Global Warming. :D

DukieTiger
01-09-2017, 06:59 AM
Crazy ACC season as always. Teams need to bring it every night against everyone.

Hopefully the Heels learned that at GT, they were engaged from the start in this one.

Always good to spank the Pack, I doubt we'll be hearing the old tired song that Roy can't coach defense from them for a while. They will need to get a coach to build a program or things will never change. One hot shot player will never be enough in this league, you've go to build a team.

Sorry to see the injuries mounting up for Duke. Amile's loss is an especially unfortunate thing to see. I'm a fan of his hard work over his career to be a better player. It's a shame to see a player like Anya throw away his talent for lack of disipline. And that's on Gottfried for not getting thru to him, unlike how Roy got thru to Meeks during his career.

Amile was leading a Duke team that I personally don't think has played very well this season, (to my expectations). Overall, the schedule's been light to this point, the good teams that were on the schedule played poorly and I don't think we've seen Duke play at a high level so far. (Close game, but I didn't think the Kansas game was played at a very high level of play from either side).

There's been some games Duke has shot well, very well, and Kennard has been a steady positive influence with his quality play. But I've been waiting to comment on this years team because I wanted to see a full team, but coming into the first serious stretch of the season, it doesn't look like it's going to happen.

Duke better find some mojo quick. The defense and rebounding is about to be seriously tested from here on out. They will need to greatly improve the D from what I've seen. Great shooting can't be counted on game in and game out.

We are about to see if they can live up to the preseason hype.

I guess beating the team that just beat UNC soundly doesn't count as performing well? Oh, that's right, the Cheaters, the team full of upperclassmen, just needed to learn that they have to bring it every night. Duke, on the other hand, doesn't need to learn that lesson, but apparently has serious issues with its team (even though we've still not seen it fully healthy.)

No, the team whose starters have missed around 30 games combined and who starts multiple freshmen couldn't possibly need to learn lessons like that. Instead, they have some serious work to do to justify the fact that they were given more hype in the preseason than anyone since Harrison Barnes.

Wheat/"/"/"
01-09-2017, 09:40 AM
I guess beating the team that just beat UNC soundly doesn't count as performing well? Oh, that's right, the Cheaters, the team full of upperclassmen, just needed to learn that they have to bring it every night. Duke, on the other hand, doesn't need to learn that lesson, but apparently has serious issues with its team (even though we've still not seen it fully healthy.)

No, the team whose starters have missed around 30 games combined and who starts multiple freshmen couldn't possibly need to learn lessons like that. Instead, they have some serious work to do to justify the fact that they were given more hype in the preseason than anyone since Harrison Barnes.

UNC laid an egg at GT on the road, sort of like the Duke/Va. Tech game.

UNC also played in several of the best played college games of the season so far...Kentucky, Indiana, Wisconsin.

We have seen the level of play UNC is capable off.

What we've seen from Duke so far has not been at a top 10 team level,imo.

I agree, I don't think we've seen what Duke is capable of...yet...but we're starting to get to a point that the team is what it is. The team on the floor has to play, nobody is going to wait around for a team to get healthy.

UNC has been dealing with sickness and injury as well, along with just about every other team out there.

Excuses don't play, teams have to still get it done.

Troublemaker
01-09-2017, 09:48 AM
I agree, I don't think we've seen what Duke is capable of...yet...but we're starting to get to a point that the team is what it is.

There are like a billion examples of teams coming together in February or even March.

Duke will have to follow that path, unfortunately, due to injuries.



UNC has been dealing with sickness and injury as well, along with just about every other team out there.

False equivalence.

Theo Pinson != Tatum + Bolden + Giles + Jefferson + Allen + Jackson + Jeter + DeLaurier + Obi

elvis14
01-09-2017, 10:10 AM
Theo Pinson != Tatum + Bolden + Giles + Jefferson + Allen + Jackson + Jeter + DeLaurier + Obi

Plus Coach K

DukieTiger
01-09-2017, 10:42 AM
UNC laid an egg at GT on the road, sort of like the Duke/Va. Tech game.

UNC also played in several of the best played college games of the season so far...Kentucky, Indiana, Wisconsin.

We have seen the level of play UNC is capable off.

What we've seen from Duke so far has not been at a top 10 team level,imo.

I agree, I don't think we've seen what Duke is capable of...yet...but we're starting to get to a point that the team is what it is. The team on the floor has to play, nobody is going to wait around for a team to get healthy.

UNC has been dealing with sickness and injury as well, along with just about every other team out there.

Excuses don't play, teams have to still get it done.

We're not talking about excuses, we're talking about your jabs regarding Duke's preseason hype. Any rational human wouldn't expect them to perform up to that level with the injuries they have had.

The fact that high level games can be played in November and December, which apparently the Cheaters have done and Duke has not, should only reinforce that you can't rule out a Duke team rounding into form, however late in the season it may end up being.

Duke79UNLV77
01-09-2017, 11:03 AM
We're not talking about excuses, we're talking about your jabs regarding Duke's preseason hype. Any rational human wouldn't expect them to perform up to that level with the injuries they have had.

The fact that high level games can be played in November and December, which apparently the Cheaters have done and Duke has not, should only reinforce that you can't rule out a Duke team rounding into form, however late in the season it may end up being.

Don't feed the troll. Besides, clearly Duke has not had any games as impressive as the cited 9-point UNC defeat by an 11-5 Indiana team, and the 2 games missed by Berry (admittedly a great player, but Wheat has told us for years how great Britt is) and the 16 games missed by Pinson (averaged 4.5 points last year and scored 0 yesterday) is a wash with what Duke has faced this year.

CDu
01-09-2017, 11:20 AM
Don't feed the troll. Besides, clearly Duke has not had any games as impressive as the cited 9-point UNC defeat by an 11-5 Indiana team, and the 2 games missed by Berry (admittedly a great player, but Wheat has told us for years how great Britt is) and the 16 games missed by Pinson (averaged 4.5 points last year and scored 0 yesterday) is a wash with what Duke has faced this year.

I will agree that UNC has played a tougher schedule. I will agree that UNC has a more impressive win. They've played 9 top-100 schools (we've played 6), with 2 of those on the road and 3 on neutral sites (to our 1 on the road and 4 neutral sites). Their SOS according to KenPom is 44, ours is 144.

I would also agree that UNC has more impressive games than us. They have two top-30 wins (we have one). They have a top-30 road win (we have none).

They have unquestionably had better health than Duke, with Duke missing 2 starters and a key reserve for the meat of the non-conference schedule and their most accomplished player for their first road game. UNC has missed a few games with Berry and all of the non-con schedule with their backup SG (possibly eventually starting SG) and sixth-best player in Pinson.

And yes, they had the fluky loss to Georgia Tech. That was an aberration.

But I'd encourage people not to waste their time with Wheat's silly jabs. Everyone knows he likes to straddle the line of trolldom at times, and can't help himself with the jabs at Duke. From experience, it is best not to waste time proving him wrong - he isn't going to acknowledge it or change his opinion.

jv001
01-09-2017, 11:30 AM
fF
Don't feed the troll. Besides, clearly Duke has not had any games as impressive as the cited 9-point UNC defeat by an 11-5 Indiana team, and the 2 games missed by Berry (admittedly a great player, but Wheat has told us for years how great Britt is) and the 16 games missed by Pinson (averaged 4.5 points last year and scored 0 yesterday) is a wash with what Duke has faced this year.

Our cheat fan picks this time to post on his beloved cheats and our Duke team that has just seen their most important player(Amile) go down with an injury to the same foot he had surgery on last season. You think that was just blind luck, no way. He can smell the blood in the water. I will not comment on his cheat team because they don't matter to me any longer. I used to root for some of their players(Bobby Jones, Walter Davis, etc) But since their cheating ways have been found out, I can't even watch a cheat game. I wonder if any of their players are staying eligible with some under the table scheme that keeps them on the playing floor. 9F....9F.....GoDuke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wheat/"/"/"
01-09-2017, 11:51 AM
I will agree that UNC has played a tougher schedule. I will agree that UNC has a more impressive win. They've played 9 top-100 schools (we've played 6), with 2 of those on the road and 3 on neutral sites (to our 1 on the road and 4 neutral sites). Their SOS according to KenPom is 44, ours is 144.

I would also agree that UNC has more impressive games than us. They have two top-30 wins (we have one). They have a top-30 road win (we have none).

They have unquestionably had better health than Duke, with Duke missing 2 starters and a key reserve for the meat of the non-conference schedule and their most accomplished player for their first road game. UNC has missed a few games with Berry and all of the non-con schedule with their backup SG (possibly eventually starting SG) and sixth-best player in Pinson.

And yes, they had the fluky loss to Georgia Tech. That was an aberration.

But I'd encourage people not to waste their time with Wheat's silly jabs. Everyone knows he likes to straddle the line of trolldom at times, and can't help himself with the jabs at Duke. From experience, it is best not to waste time proving him wrong - he isn't going to acknowledge it or change his opinion.

After a busy Holiday period, this was the first chance I had to comment on the board about hoops in about two weeks. I don't troll, I try to be straight out honest with my opinion of how I see a team play.
I do my best not to get caught up in all the other crap on the board.

UNC has not had the injuries to deal with at Duke's level this season. Never tried to say they have. Just saying that it is what it is and Duke better get ready fast, big games are coming, nobody's gonna feel sorry for you.

Bottom line: The level of play Duke has put on the floor so far does not match what we have seen from KY, Villanova, Indiana, Baylor, Kansas, UCLA, Louisville, Virginia, Gonzaga, West Virginia or UNC...to name a few.

Yes, they still have time and the talent to put it together, but the clock is running out game by game.

Time to step up with the players they have available, that's my point.

PackMan97
01-09-2017, 11:53 AM
I wonder if any of their players are staying eligible with some under the table scheme that keeps them on the playing floor.

You know they are up to shenannigans. Only AFAM got shut down. EXSS, PHIL, PORT, DRAM, COMM, etc are all still going strong and haven't been "investigated" at all.

jv001
01-09-2017, 11:56 AM
You know they are up to shenannigans. Only AFAM got shut down. EXSS, PHIL, PORT, DRAM, COMM, etc are all still going strong and haven't been "investigated" at all.

I knew it. Cheaters then and now. Like I said, they don't matter to me any more. GoDuke!

Wheat/"/"/"
01-09-2017, 12:54 PM
You know they are up to shenannigans. Only AFAM got shut down. EXSS, PHIL, PORT, DRAM, COMM, etc are all still going strong and haven't been "investigated" at all.

I thought this was a basketball discussion board? If you have some info that UNC is doing something wrong, take it up with SACS. It's their responsibility to maintain course integrity among institutions.

When you're ready to talk hoops, I'll be here just as soon as the Pack starts playing some.

TruBlu
01-09-2017, 12:55 PM
fF

Our cheat fan picks this time to post on his beloved cheats and our Duke team that has just seen their most important player(Amile) go down with an injury to the same foot he had surgery on last season. You think that was just blind luck, no way. He can smell the blood in the water. I will not comment on his cheat team because they don't matter to me any longer. I used to root for some of their players(Bobby Jones, Walter Davis, etc) But since their cheating ways have been found out, I can't even watch a cheat game. I wonder if any of their players are staying eligible with some under the table scheme that keeps them on the playing floor. 9F...9F...GoDuke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Once upon a time, I used a term "sports hate" to describe my feelings about unc athletic teams. That was when I thought they ran a clean program.

After finding out about their decades long cheating ways, my "sports hate" for them has grown into full-blown "hate hate". I still watch some of their games, but only if there is a chance of them getting their just rewards by getting their butt whipped.

I also have lost any respect for unc fans, who apparently condone cheating as a means to winning.:mad:

GTHC!!!!!

Olympic Fan
01-09-2017, 01:27 PM
I thought this was a basketball discussion board? If you have some info that UNC is doing something wrong, take it up with SACS. It's their responsibility to maintain course integrity among institutions.

When you're ready to talk hoops, I'll be here just as soon as the Pack starts playing some.

Yeah, that's the IC line -- so we cheated ... it's not the NCAA's responsibility to punish 20 years of academic fraud.

I'm always willing to talk hoops but not with fans of the most corrupt program in NCAA history.

PackMan97
01-09-2017, 01:33 PM
I thought this was a basketball discussion board? If you have some info that UNC is doing something wrong, take it up with SACS. It's their responsibility to maintain course integrity among institutions.

When you're ready to talk hoops, I'll be here just as soon as the Pack starts playing some.

Whether or not athletes go to class and have to spend time studying and being a student is paramount to any discussion on college sports. It might make a difference in how much time athletes get to spend improving at their sport.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C1GfdMHVEAALe-2.jpg:large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C1A5V9mVIAAX_5e.jpg:large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C1A3-HWVIAE2H0i.jpg:large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0oCyoBVEAAMYY_.jpg:large

Olympic Fan
01-09-2017, 01:46 PM
I saw a great stat on a Wake board --

In their first four ACC games, the Deacons are a combined + 13 over the first 30 minutes of the four games ... and a combined minus 40 over the last 10 minutes.

It's actually worse since the one time the Deacs won the last 10 minutes was in their win over BC (they were plus four). So for their three losses, they are minus - 44 over the last 10 minutes.

That's astonishing.

Wheat/"/"/"
01-09-2017, 02:19 PM
OK, I'm sucked in once again...

I'm all for the UNC Basketball program being punished for "cheating" if it is ever proven that any of the coaches knew those courses did not meet the SACS requirements.
SACS has punished UNC (the institution)and UNC has made changes for dropping the ball maintaining course integrity for those students. UNC admits they were inappropriate, and that the academic safeguards were not followed. The people responsible have been fired and changes made.

I expect UNC to maintain quality classes for all students and for SACS to do their job and see to it that they do.

Roy Williams has consistently stated the Basketball program did not have anything to do with instituting those classes in question and he had no knowledge they would be subsequently found to be substandard. I believe him. There has been no evidence presented that he did know otherwise, or that the classes were set up to benefit the student athletes by anyone other than Crowder and that AFAM professor, who appear to have been misguided and lazy here.
It's a big leap to consider everyone guilty of a huge conspiracy.

All that is proven is that athletes gravitated to the classes, and staff did what they could to place them in courses that keep them eligible, which is no shocker, since academic support folks do that everywhere with less challenging classes. Nowhere does anybody show they knew theses classes didn't meet minimum requirements for SACS.

I come here to talk basketball. I'm not a UNC graduate, apologists, and I can't do anything about anything myself.

I'm going to try to stick with talking hoops, so, some of you, please spare me the lecture on what kind of fan I am.

Bob Green
01-09-2017, 02:46 PM
Yes, they still have time and the talent to put it together, but the clock is running out game by game.



I'm looking forward to February 9 when Carolina travels to Durham to face Duke. The Blue Devils match-up nicely, IMO. Joel Berry will be challenging to defend as he is a talented player and Kennedy Meeks has the bulk to bully our youngsters in the paint but overall I expect Duke to handle the Tar Heels. A serious lack of depth will be the biggest challenge for Carolina although the return of Theo Pinson does help.

Olympic Fan
01-09-2017, 02:54 PM
OK, I'm sucked in once again...

I'm all for the UNC Basketball program being punished for "cheating" if it is ever proven that any of the coaches knew those courses did not meet the SACS requirements.
SACS has punished UNC (the institution)and UNC has made changes for dropping the ball maintaining course integrity for those students. UNC admits they were inappropriate, and that the academic safeguards were not followed. The people responsible have been fired and changes made.

I expect UNC to maintain quality classes for all students and for SACS to do their job and see to it that they do.

Roy Williams has consistently stated the Basketball program did not have anything to do with instituting those classes in question and he had no knowledge they would be subsequently found to be substandard. I believe him. There has been no evidence presented that he did know otherwise, or that the classes were set up to benefit the student athletes by anyone other than Crowder and that AFAM professor, who appear to have been misguided and lazy here.
It's a big leap to consider everyone guilty of a huge conspiracy.

All that is proven is that athletes gravitated to the classes, and staff did what they could to place them in courses that keep them eligible, which is no shocker, since academic support folks do that everywhere with less challenging classes. Nowhere does anybody show they knew theses classes didn't meet minimum requirements for SACS.

I come here to talk basketball. I'm not a UNC graduate, apologists, and I can't do anything about anything myself.

I'm going to try to stick with talking hoops, so, some of you, please spare me the lecture on what kind of fan I am.

Why does it matter whether the staff knew or not? I think the evidence is strong that they knew what was going on, but I agree we can't prove it -- that's why coaches insulate themselves and the NCAA has instituted punishment for coaches when things happen under their watch -- whether they can be proven guilty or not.

If the players took phony classes -- not easy classes, but absolutely phony classes (as reported in UNC's own Wainstein Investigation) -- to stay eligible, then they were actually ineligible and all their wins and banners should be vacated. Rashad McCants has admitted that he stayed eligible in 2005 by taking phony courses -- there goes the 2005 national title. The cheating goes back to the late 1980s and wasn't restricted to the AFAM program (Wainstein wanted to expand the investigation, but was blocked by the school -- which knew what he'd find).

Not a great conspiracy? Thousands of athletes over more than 20 years taking phony courses to stay eligible -- steered there by their academic advisors? It would be a lot easier to believe that there was no conspiracy if UNC had responded to the revelation of the cheating by actually taking some action. Instead, UNC has acted to hide, delay and cover up any punishment and to try and block the NCAA by appealing to legal technicalities. UNC is like a murderer caught covered in his victims blood, who seeks to get the case thrown out because of an invalid search warrant.

Dude, you say you only want to talk basketball. Well, some of us would love to talk basketball with fans from schools that don't blatantly cheat then brag about their success. Until UNC cleans up its act -- which they won't do -- I'd rather not talk about anything dealing with the cheating nest of vipers in Chapel Hill other than the search for justice. If you want to come over here and troll us, you'll need to get used to us speculating about what kind of fan you are. You are clearly an apologist for the cheats.

CDu
01-09-2017, 02:54 PM
I'm looking forward to February 9 when Carolina travels to Durham to face Duke. The Blue Devils match-up nicely, IMO. Joel Berry will be challenging to defend as he is a talented player and Kennedy Meeks has the bulk to bully our youngsters in the paint but overall I expect Duke to handle the Tar Heels. A serious lack of depth will be the biggest challenge for Carolina although the return of Theo Pinson does help.

If Jefferson is back by then and the team is fully healthy, I would feel VERY strongly about a Duke win in that game. VERY strongly.

UNC's starting five can probably hang with Duke's starting five. But our bench - especially by February when Giles will hopefully be at or close to full-speed - is just much better. And if the freshmen haven't figured out that they have to play transition defense by then, well, it is going to be a difficult postseason for us anyway.

If Jefferson can't play by then, then it becomes interesting. I think Giles will be really good, and if Bolden/Jeter have caught up, I would still very much like our chances. If Bolden and Jeter aren't ready, that takes away a big advantage for us on the bench. We then would be in more of a toss-up type situation, where either team would stand a good chance.

OldPhiKap
01-09-2017, 03:08 PM
Lack of Institutional Control = the adults were responsible for knowing this was going on but yet it continued unabated.

The fact that Huck turned a blind eye to it does not pardon his program. It makes it an illicit abettor to the scam. Hence, LOIC.


______________________

NC State had issues in the 1980's. It took its medicine like an adult.

UNC had issues for two decades, and walks around like its dung doesn't stink.

Point, Wolfpack.

PackMan97
01-09-2017, 03:10 PM
I'm going to try to stick with talking hoops, so, some of you, please spare me the lecture on what kind of fan I am.

:rolleyes:

Any further response would get me banned. Peace. Love. Stop Cheating.

Wheat/"/"/"
01-09-2017, 03:38 PM
I'm looking forward to February 9 when Carolina travels to Durham to face Duke. The Blue Devils match-up nicely, IMO. Joel Berry will be challenging to defend as he is a talented player and Kennedy Meeks has the bulk to bully our youngsters in the paint but overall I expect Duke to handle the Tar Heels. A serious lack of depth will be the biggest challenge for Carolina although the return of Theo Pinson does help.

I'm equally confident that UNC matches up better and should defeat Duke. Thankfully the game has to be played to see who is right :)

I think UNC has a distinct advantage over Duke with depth. Bradley, K. Williams, Britt and Maye bring more to the table than what I've seen from Duke's bench so far.

If Duke tries to run with UNC, I really like UNC's chances. If it becomes more of a half court game, I still think UNC's defense and scoring balance of inside/outside game will be too much for Duke.

My biggest problem beyond defense with how the Duke team is playing so far is the dependence on one on one moves to get their shots.
I don't see a team moving, picking and sharing the ball as well as you'd expect from Duke. Maybe it's youth and injuries, but I've seen lots of standing around waiting on Grayson or Kennard to make a play. A good defensive team like UNC will make it tough on that individual style of play.

UNC is deep, versatile, and talented in the post, and is the same on the wing and with the guards. They share the ball well and usually take care of the ball, last few games being the exception.

UNC will be ready.

Bob Green
01-09-2017, 03:55 PM
UNC is deep, versatile, and talented...



As you say, the game will be played so we will see who is right but I strongly disagree with the quote above. UNC is not a deep, talented team. UNC has a talented starting five then the talent level drops off appreciably.

Wheat/"/"/"
01-09-2017, 04:12 PM
As you say, the game will be played so we will see who is right but I strongly disagree with the quote above. UNC is not a deep, talented team. UNC has a talented starting five then the talent level drops off appreciably.

If the game was played one on one I might agree.
For UNC, its all about playing style and fit and making the team better.
The bench brings versatility of a shot blocker, rebounder (Bradley), a defensive stopper, (whether its Williams or Pinson) an ACC starting quality backup PG (Britt) and a solid stretch 4 (Maye).
And there's still Woods and Robinson left that are capable of making plays too.

Troublemaker
01-09-2017, 05:15 PM
Bottom line: The level of play Duke has put on the floor so far does not match what we have seen from KY, Villanova, Indiana, Baylor, Kansas, UCLA, Louisville, Virginia, Gonzaga, West Virginia or UNC...to name a few.

lol, Indiana. Is this the same logic that predicts Malik Monk to be a future Hall-of-Famer? Once again, Wheat, just because someone has success against UNC doesn't mean...

There are a few other teams on your list that I have a problem with, but the Hoosiers really stand out.

In any case, I would agree that the best of Duke is yet to come.

DukieInBrasil
01-10-2017, 04:05 PM
If the game was played one on one I might agree.
For UNC, its all about playing style and fit and making the team better.
The bench brings versatility of a shot blocker, rebounder (Bradley), a defensive stopper, (whether its Williams or Pinson) an ACC starting quality backup PG (Britt) and a solid stretch 4 (Maye).
And there's still Woods and Robinson left that are capable of making plays too.

you keep harping on this insane idea that Britt is a starting quality ACC PG. That's demonstrably not true, as he plays on an ACC team and doesn't start. You've made overly-inflated statements about Bradley before too. His numbers compare favorably to Bolden, who has missed over half the season, but almost all of Bradley's impressive stats came in OOC play. He's shown himself to be barely competent vs. good teams. Same goes for Bolden. I'm not sure why you think Bradley would be a "win" off the bench. Do you honestly think that either Williams or Pinson, or both, provide more value off the bench than Frank Jackson? I'll buy the argument that Maye is solid if you'll buy the argument that Jeter is solid.
Otherwise, i think you hit on an important idea, and one that many UNCheater detractors here at DBR discount, that Roy has compiled a team that fits together pretty well despite the lack of top-tier talent. UNCheat has plenty of solid talent, and plenty of experience and plenty of depth. I have been surprised by how well UNCheat has played up til now, but they've lost to 2 of 3 to the upper echelon teams they've played so far. Duke is 3-1 vs its upper echelon competition (3-2 if you include VaTech in that group since it rose to top-25 rank after beating Duke and has solid geek stat rankings).
I expect that when Duke plays UNC that it will be a very good game. I think UNC will be in trouble though b/c so much of what Duke will be doing at that time will be going thru Fr. who started the year injured and are playing catch up, ie what you see from them now is not what you'll be seeing from them by the time the first rivalry game rolls around. UNC otoh, does not rely on any Fr. and though they will doubtless improve between now and then, i don't see the team turning over a new leaf via rapid growth in the game of key players.

Wheat/"/"/"
01-10-2017, 05:07 PM
you keep harping on this insane idea that Britt is a starting quality ACC PG. That's demonstrably not true, as he plays on an ACC team and doesn't start. You've made overly-inflated statements about Bradley before too. His numbers compare favorably to Bolden, who has missed over half the season, but almost all of Bradley's impressive stats came in OOC play. He's shown himself to be barely competent vs. good teams. Same goes for Bolden. I'm not sure why you think Bradley would be a "win" off the bench. Do you honestly think that either Williams or Pinson, or both, provide more value off the bench than Frank Jackson? I'll buy the argument that Maye is solid if you'll buy the argument that Jeter is solid.
Otherwise, i think you hit on an important idea, and one that many UNCheater detractors here at DBR discount, that Roy has compiled a team that fits together pretty well despite the lack of top-tier talent. UNCheat has plenty of solid talent, and plenty of experience and plenty of depth. I have been surprised by how well UNCheat has played up til now, but they've lost to 2 of 3 to the upper echelon teams they've played so far. Duke is 3-1 vs its upper echelon competition (3-2 if you include VaTech in that group since it rose to top-25 rank after beating Duke and has solid geek stat rankings).
I expect that when Duke plays UNC that it will be a very good game. I think UNC will be in trouble though b/c so much of what Duke will be doing at that time will be going thru Fr. who started the year injured and are playing catch up, ie what you see from them now is not what you'll be seeing from them by the time the first rivalry game rolls around. UNC otoh, does not rely on any Fr. and though they will doubtless improve between now and then, i don't see the team turning over a new leaf via rapid growth in the game of key players.

I can comfortably say Britt is an ACC quality starting guard because Britt has actually started many games at UNC during the course of his career. Many during the last year when UNC won both the regular season and ACC tournament titles, so it's not like he started at BC.
True, he hasn't become a regular starter at UNC, but that's because he is on a team with the likes of Paige and Berry at point. He would be a regular starter on many other ACC teams, IMO.

You guys like to make it out like I'm pushing him for NPOY, but all I'm doing is defending a kid that gets no respect when he actually deserves some for being a good player. Not great, but good. At UNC, he's a solid, reliable back up PG that maintains a high level of team play when he's subbed in. That's a very valuable player off the bench.

He sometimes struggles to score, no doubt. But his ball handling, defense, disipline and leadership is good. He's made many plays during his career, like setting good screens, timely steals and clutch foul shooting in big games against high quality competition that has helped UNC win. You can bet he's going to be a key player in some games coming up and he will prove, once again, why a quality kid and player like him is important to have as depth on the team.

As for Duke...If you watched the UNC/KY game, for instance, you saw a high level basketball game. Even tho UNC lost and the stats show a loss, like Duke showed a loss against Kansas, I promise you Duke or Kansas did not reach the level of play in their game that UNC/KY did.
The UNC Indiana loss and the Wisconsin UNC win were also played at a higher level than any Duke game so far this season that I've seen, and I've seen them all. Won loss stats don't pass the eye test on how teams are playing.

I don't think Duke has played at a top ten team level, so far.

Duke may very well reach, or even surpass, the level of play that UNC has proven to be capable of reaching...but it hasn't happened yet. Hopefully some of the injury issues will be settled soon and we can see a full Duke team to get a real sense of their ceiling. So far it's been based on HS rankings and projected draft picks.

The good news is the games are about to really begin and we will find out on the court just where every team is in the big picture.

DukieInBrasil
01-10-2017, 06:03 PM
I can comfortably say Britt is an ACC quality starting guard because Britt has actually started many games at UNC during the course of his career. Many during the last year when UNC won both the regular season and ACC tournament titles, so it's not like he started at BC.
True, he hasn't become a regular starter at UNC, but that's because he is on a team with the likes of Paige and Berry at point. He would be a regular starter on many other ACC teams, IMO.

You guys like to make it out like I'm pushing him for NPOY, but all I'm doing is defending a kid that gets no respect when he actually deserves some for being a good player. Not great, but good. At UNC, he's a solid, reliable back up PG that maintains a high level of team play when he's subbed in. That's a very valuable player off the bench.


I agree withe second paragraph, and the comment you're replying made no indication that he's not a good player or a decent player to use in the role that he's being used in. Using Paige or Berry as a foil doesn't work, b/c they are ACC starting PG quality players, even all-ACC quality.
Britt wouldn't start at Duke, State, Wake, FSU, VaTech, Notre Dame, Louisville, UVA, Syracuse. He could maybe start at BC or GT, which are projected to be the worst in the ACC, and possibly Clemson which doesn't really have an effective PG this year. So he could maybe start at 2, maybe 3, ACC schools, not "many".
As for the first paragraph, he was the starter and lost the job b/c he's not an ACC starting PG level player. Seems like that isn't so hard to figure out.

CDu
01-10-2017, 06:51 PM
Britt has developed into an adequate backup ACC PG. If he is your startingbPG in the ACC, your team has problems. And that is fine. Not everyone is good enough to be a starter on a decent team. But let's also not overstate how valuable he is either.

jv001
01-11-2017, 01:56 PM
I can comfortably say Britt is an ACC quality starting guard because Britt has actually started many games at UNC during the course of his career. Many during the last year when UNC won both the regular season and ACC tournament titles, so it's not like he started at BC.
True, he hasn't become a regular starter at UNC, but that's because he is on a team with the likes of Paige and Berry at point. He would be a regular starter on many other ACC teams, IMO.

You guys like to make it out like I'm pushing him for NPOY, but all I'm doing is defending a kid that gets no respect when he actually deserves some for being a good player. Not great, but good. At UNC, he's a solid, reliable back up PG that maintains a high level of team play when he's subbed in. That's a very valuable player off the bench.

He sometimes struggles to score, no doubt. But his ball handling, defense, disipline and leadership is good. He's made many plays during his career, like setting good screens, timely steals and clutch foul shooting in big games against high quality competition that has helped UNC win. You can bet he's going to be a key player in some games coming up and he will prove, once again, why a quality kid and player like him is important to have as depth on the team.

As for Duke...If you watched the UNC/KY game, for instance, you saw a high level basketball game. Even tho UNC lost and the stats show a loss, like Duke showed a loss against Kansas, I promise you Duke or Kansas did not reach the level of play in their game that UNC/KY did.
The UNC Indiana loss and the Wisconsin UNC win were also played at a higher level than any Duke game so far this season that I've seen, and I've seen them all. Won loss stats don't pass the eye test on how teams are playing.

I don't think Duke has played at a top ten team level, so far.

Duke may very well reach, or even surpass, the level of play that UNC has proven to be capable of reaching...but it hasn't happened yet. Hopefully some of the injury issues will be settled soon and we can see a full Duke team to get a real sense of their ceiling. So far it's been based on HS rankings and projected draft picks.

The good news is the games are about to really begin and we will find out on the court just where every team is in the big picture.

Duke showed a glimpse of their potential against UNLV and GT(I think you remember them). Your team has not had near the injury problems that Duke has. So, we should be behind the heels. Let's let the year play out and see where each team ends up. One thing for sure, we'll not know whether the cheats are really academically eligible. GoDuke!

Wahoo2000
01-11-2017, 03:24 PM
As someone without a horse in the race, I'd put Carolina ahead of Duke right now based on how the two teams have played thus far. Clearly ahead, but not FAR ahead. Kenpom (which is getting very close to being entirely based on actual achievement of the season, and not on any preseason ranking/bias) has UNC at 6 and Duke at 10.

I think both teams will improve as the season goes on, and that Duke has a higher ceiling for that improvement due to injury and inexperience issues (they haven't really had everyone healthy for any sustained period of time yet, and freshmen who get good PT will usually show the most growth improvement DURING the course of a season). I think if Duke gets healthy quickly, and that Giles finds his way to be anywhere close to his recruiting rank, that Duke would have a slight edge on a neutral court. A rotation of Allen, Kennard, Tatum, Giles, Jefferson, Jones, Jackson, Jeter/Bolden is a slight cut above Berry, Pinson, Jackson, Hicks, Meeks, Bradley, Williams, Britt.

Much depends on the development of Giles. If he's a total disappointment, UNC is clearly ahead. If he's reduced to being a 10-15mpg role player, still slight edge to UNC. If he becomes a dependable core rotation player, even/slight edge to Duke, if he's even close to playing at the same level as Tatum, Duke will have a decided edge.

CDu
01-11-2017, 03:31 PM
As someone without a horse in the race, I'd put Carolina ahead of Duke right now based on how the two teams have played thus far. Clearly ahead, but not FAR ahead. Kenpom (which is getting very close to being entirely based on actual achievement of the season, and not on any preseason ranking/bias) has UNC at 6 and Duke at 10.

I think both teams will improve as the season goes on, and that Duke has a higher ceiling for that improvement due to injury and inexperience issues (they haven't really had everyone healthy for any sustained period of time yet, and freshmen who get good PT will usually show the most growth improvement DURING the course of a season). I think if Duke gets healthy quickly, and that Giles finds his way to be anywhere close to his recruiting rank, that Duke would have a slight edge on a neutral court. A rotation of Allen, Kennard, Tatum, Giles, Jefferson, Jones, Jackson, Jeter/Bolden is a slight cut above Berry, Pinson, Jackson, Hicks, Meeks, Bradley, Williams, Britt.

Much depends on the development of Giles. If he's a total disappointment, UNC is clearly ahead. If he's reduced to being a 10-15mpg role player, still slight edge to UNC. If he becomes a dependable core rotation player, even/slight edge to Duke, if he's even close to playing at the same level as Tatum, Duke will have a decided edge.

I agree. UNC has a more impressive resume to this point. I don't think there is really any reasonable dispute of that. And I agree that Duke has a lot more room for improvement than UNC does, and ultimately a higher ceiling. Whether or not we get there remains to be seen. I also think we have - as currently constructed with Jefferson out - a lower floor than UNC. Mainly because we are very reliant on freshman, and three of those freshman have missed a bunch of time.