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blUDAYvil
01-02-2017, 11:03 AM
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/18394507/mike-krzyzewski-duke-blue-devils-coach-planning-leave-absence-due-back-issues

ESPN reporting that Coach K is expected to take a leave of absence for an unspecified amount of time to address back issues.

dbd4ever
01-02-2017, 11:04 AM
Not trying to start rumors but seeing on a lot of other sites that there will be an announcement today that Coach K will be stepping away due to health reasons. I have seen this on 3 different places now. Anyone have any info? Thanks

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
01-02-2017, 11:04 AM
On ESPN now

kAzE
01-02-2017, 11:05 AM
Just saw this on my phone . . .

I just hope he's okay, and the surgery goes well. One's back is nothing to mess around with. Get well soon . . . we need you, coach!!

Native
01-02-2017, 11:07 AM
The official release (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=211387896) says Coach K will be undergoing surgery this Friday to remove part of a herniated disc.

Get well soon, Coach!

mattman91
01-02-2017, 11:08 AM
It is over.

grad_devil
01-02-2017, 11:10 AM
Can't wait to hear all of the conspiracy theories from the Duke haters this time. Sheesh.

jipops
01-02-2017, 11:12 AM
Get well soon Coach! Can't mess around with back issues. Glad he is addressing this now and not just trying to tough it out like he did after '94. I feel he is leaving things in capable hands with Capel. Wow, just being able to salvage anything for this season is going to be quite an accomplishment.

LasVegas
01-02-2017, 11:13 AM
A nice cherry on top to the most bizarre season a team could possibly have. Something like 6 injuries, preseason POY suspended, and The GOAT takes a leave. Sounds about right.

OZZIE4DUKE
01-02-2017, 11:14 AM
Well crapola. The injuries continue. :mad: Hope this turns out better than 1995 did. When will the haters say he should/shouldn't count any future victories on his record? http://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/devil9f.gif http://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/devil9f.gif

UrinalCake
01-02-2017, 11:16 AM
Odd coincidence that the game K missed last season was also against GT. Capel will have a nice audition to see how he handles leading the team for an extended period.

TKG
01-02-2017, 11:16 AM
What is it about K's back problems and Georgia Tech? Didn't Mrs. K give him an ultimatum about his health before the Tech game back in '95?

moonpie23
01-02-2017, 11:16 AM
back pain is nothing to "try to tough out"......it makes your entire life miserable.......


go get it fixed......you've got a great staff......we'll hold down the fort while you're gone....

Troublemaker
01-02-2017, 11:17 AM
Wow, what a weird season.


The official release (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=211387896) says Coach K will be undergoing surgery this Friday to remove part of a herniated disc.

Get well soon, Coach!

"Up to 4 weeks" recovery time, says the press release.

I'm confident that Coach Capel can hold down the fort for a month, assisted by Coaches James and Scheyer.

Furniture
01-02-2017, 11:18 AM
Will the last one out please turn off the lights?

freshmanjs
01-02-2017, 11:24 AM
Nasty tweet here


Fran Fraschilla ‏@franfraschilla 5m5 minutes ago
Hoping that Jeff Capel gets credited for all of the wins. That precedent has been set.

devilnfla
01-02-2017, 11:25 AM
Get well soon Coach K.

I'm excited to see how Capel uses/develops the lineup.

tbyers11
01-02-2017, 11:26 AM
Nasty tweet here

Yeah, WTF? I'd never pegged Fraschilla as a secret Duke hater, but that is pretty petty and largely irrelevant.

ricks68
01-02-2017, 11:29 AM
Now we know why he hasn't been off the bench screaming while the players have been screwing up. He couldn't because of his back.:eek:

Get well soon Coach K. We need your FIRE!

rick

wsb3
01-02-2017, 11:31 AM
What a strange season indeed...So many surgeries & given his age I hate to think this might be it after this year..assuming he can make it back..And all things basketball is very secondary to his health.

I want Coach K to enjoy the rest of his life & of course I would love maybe five more great years as HC but if not..Thank you. For some long time Duke fans like me we use to wonder if Duke would ever win one NC much less five.

As for fans of other schools that would use this as an opportunity to make fun of health issues that anyone may have like they have about 95 forever.. God help you. I have never made fun of Roy's vertigo or other health issues..If I believed in karma I would say that is bad karma.

In the meantime let's try to see some silver lining...Capel gets to audition for the head chair. I think he will do well..

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
01-02-2017, 11:31 AM
Now we know why he hasn't been off the bench screaming while the players have been screwing up. He couldn't because of his back.:eek:

Get well soon Coach K. We need your FIRE!

rick

Having watched someone close to me struggle through recovery from back surgery I can only assume four weeks is an optimistic goal.

Come on boys- time to circle the wagons. The margin for error just shrank even more.

Let's go Duke!

FerryFor50
01-02-2017, 11:32 AM
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/18394507/mike-krzyzewski-duke-blue-devils-coach-planning-leave-absence-due-back-issues

ESPN reporting that Coach K is expected to take a leave of absence for an unspecified amount of time to address back issues.

At least it wasn't a foot injury :mad:

crf30
01-02-2017, 11:32 AM
Nasty tweet here

Yeah, the precedent has been set... Didn't Steve Kerr get credit for all of the wins that Luke Walton coached?

weezie
01-02-2017, 11:32 AM
Good luck Coach. You've certainly got my best wishes and vibes for a speedy and full recovery.

Tom B.
01-02-2017, 11:36 AM
Dang, for every hot-take artist out there with a laptop, this must be like a second Christmas.

Best wishes to Coach K for a full recovery, however long it takes.

I do feel a modicum of comfort with the team in Capel's hands.

BigZ
01-02-2017, 11:38 AM
On the bright side Duke could now bring back Allen with little to no media uproar.

ChrisP
01-02-2017, 11:39 AM
Generally, I am an optimistic person but...this season seems cursed. I have a sinking feeling it's one we'll look back on and say "What if..." :(

Would be great to be proven wrong - and how awesome would it be for the team to overcome ALL this adversity and gel and go on a run? I hope for that, but my gut is telling me otherwise. Nothing against Coach Capel, at all. If he were being handed the reins of a finely-tuned, fully healthy squad with it's full complement of veteran captains, I'd actually feel pretty good about the latest news of K taking his leave of absence, but, sadly, that ain't the case!

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
01-02-2017, 11:41 AM
Interesting that K will be coaching Wednesday, then having surgery Friday. Hope Cameron is packed with well-wishers for his last game.. for awhile.

wsb3
01-02-2017, 11:43 AM
Interesting that K will be coaching Wednesday, then having surgery Friday. Hope Cameron is packed with well-wishers for his last game.. for awhile.

I missed this. I assumed that he was out for Wednesday..

Devilwin
01-02-2017, 11:44 AM
Geez, what next??? Capel is very capable to get us to February, however. Good luck, Coach. Get well soon. Very soon!

jv001
01-02-2017, 11:48 AM
Prayers, Coach K. First and foremost is your health. You have a duty to your family and yourself to make sure you have the best possible life after basketball. You have given most of your adult life to basketball. Army basketball, Duke basketball and USA basketball. We as Duke fans owe you respect and admiration. You are GOAT and have done the job with honor. I for one hope you come back stronger than ever and guide our team to another Championship. But first get healthy. God bless and GoDuke!

sagegrouse
01-02-2017, 11:48 AM
On the bright side Duke could now bring back Allen with little to no media uproar.

Perhaps a hospital-bed absolution for Grayson just before K goes into surgery?

OZZIE4DUKE
01-02-2017, 11:49 AM
Well crapola. The injuries continue. :mad: Hope this turns out better than 1995 did. When will the haters say he should/shouldn't count any future victories on his record? http://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/devil9f.gifhttp://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/devil9f.gif


Nasty tweet here


Yeah, WTF? I'd never pegged Fraschilla as a secret Duke hater, but that is pretty petty and largely irrelevant.

It didn't take long, did it?

Philadukie
01-02-2017, 11:49 AM
Generally, I am an optimistic person but...this season seems cursed. I have a sinking feeling it's one we'll look back on and say "What if..." :(

Would be great to be proven wrong - and how awesome would it be for the team to overcome ALL this adversity and gel and go on a run? I hope for that, but my gut is telling me otherwise. Nothing against Coach Capel, at all. If he were being handed the reins of a finely-tuned, fully healthy squad with it's full complement of veteran captains, I'd actually feel pretty good about the latest news of K taking his leave of absence, but, sadly, that ain't the case!

I have the opposite feeling that it could be one of those "in spite of all the issues" seasons, Duke makes a memorable run.

"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
Or being hated, don’t give way to hating,
And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise..."

Seems appropriate for this season.

slower
01-02-2017, 11:51 AM
The hater-verse is already ALL over this.

FadedTackyShirt
01-02-2017, 11:53 AM
Godspeed, Coach K. Get healthy no matter how long it takes.

wsb3
01-02-2017, 11:59 AM
The hater-verse is already ALL over this.

I would never venture to IC on a day like today but I did visit Pack Pride..I was astonished at the chippy comments. What human being makes light of someone's health?

I expected better from Pack fans. I guess I was disillusioned.:mad:

TKG
01-02-2017, 12:01 PM
Fraschilla reveals his true colors.

sagegrouse
01-02-2017, 12:01 PM
I would never venture to IC on a day like today but I did visit Pack Pride..I was astonished at the chippy comments. What human being makes light of someone's health?

I expected better from Pack fans. I guess I was disillusioned.:mad:

I found IC to be relatively tame -- a number of wiseacre comments about who gets credit for the wins (and the losses).

atoomer0881
01-02-2017, 12:05 PM
I have the opposite feeling that it could be one of those "in spite of all the issues" seasons, Duke makes a memorable run.

"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
Or being hated, don’t give way to hating,
And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise..."

Seems appropriate for this season.

I agree, I have that feeling as well. That despite injuries to 3 potential lottery pick freshmen, and an injury to preseason POY Grayson Allen, and an indefinite suspension to Allen, and a leave of absence by Coach K, and yada yada yada, I am hoping that come February/March we'll start rolling on all cylinders and become the powerhouse that people thought we'd be back in November. And while everyone gushes over Villanova and UCLA all year long, I am hoping that by the time it really matters, it'll be too late for people to game plan for Duke. I think if we can make it to Phoenix this year, it could be one of the greatest accomplishments of Coach K's career, despite the talent that we have. Any one of these setbacks could derail a very good team's season. The fact that we've had all of these setbacks, and still sit at No. 8 with only 2 losses (one being on a last second shot to a team who is now No. 3 and the other coming at the hands of a team who is now No. 21) I think speaks volumes about our team. I still have hope for a great season!

Also loved your use of Rudyard Kipling's If—. I agree that it seems appropriate for this season.

Olympic Fan
01-02-2017, 12:07 PM
Stunning news ... but IF it's just four weeks, it's not too bad. Especially since I suspect he will be able to watch video and have input during the time he comes back. I share Philaduke's optimism -- K comes back in early February when Grayson has his issues straightened out and Harry and Marques are healthy enough to be major factors ... that's when Duke turns it on.

Two other observations:

-- Haters are gonna hate, so I don't really care whether the games count for K or for Capel. But I hope Duke announces BEFORE the games what they are going to do. That way, the haters won't be able to suggest that the decision was based on how well or how poorly the team did without him.

-- Amazing the Georgia Tech connection. The first game K missed in 1995 was a game at Georgia Tech. He also missed the second Tech game that year (actually it was the third -- the two teams met in Hawaii in December that season). His one missed game since then was last year's game at Georgia Tech. And, now, the second game he misses will be Georgia Tech. That will be four missed Georgia Tech game in his career.

-- I hope the team reacts as they did a year ago, not in 1995. In '95, Duke had already started its slide (losing at home to a bad Clemson team in K's last game). They went to Atlanta without K and were non-competitive, starting a long slide. A year ago, Duke went to Atlanta in bad shape, having lost four of five and not playing well (and having just dropped out of the poll). Capel led Duke to a tough 80-71 win that kickstarted a five-game win streak, including the wins over Virginia, Louisville and at UNC. Not sure if he did anything different or better than K -- all starters played 30-plus minutes, but he did give Chase Jeter eight minutes (he had played a total of six minutes in the previous month).

It will be interesting to see how Capel -- who is probably our next head coach -- handles things in K's absence.

slower
01-02-2017, 12:08 PM
I agree, I have that feeling as well. That despite injuries to 3 potential lottery pick freshmen, and an injury to preseason POY Grayson Allen, and an indefinite suspension to Allen, and a leave of absence by Coach K, and yada yada yada, I am hoping that come February/March we'll start rolling on all cylinders and become the powerhouse that people thought we'd be back in November. And while everyone gushes over Villanova and UCLA all year long, I am hoping that by the time it really matters, it'll be too late for people to game plan for Duke. I think if we can make it to Phoenix this year, it could be one of the greatest accomplishments of Coach K's career, despite the talent that we have. Any one of these setbacks could derail a very good team's season. The fact that we've had all of these setbacks, and still sit at No. 8 with only 2 losses (one being on a last second shot to a team who is now No. 3 and the other coming at the hands of a team who is now No. 21) I think speaks volumes about our team. I still have hope for a great season!

Also loved your use of Rudyard Kipling's If—. I agree that it seems appropriate for this season.

I'll have what he/she's having! ;)

Billy Dat
01-02-2017, 12:09 PM
Yeah, WTF? I'd never pegged Fraschilla as a secret Duke hater, but that is pretty petty and largely irrelevant.

Now that you've seen it, dig back into his tweets if you want to see more. He is always taking shots at K, I am not sure of the reason.

Get well, K.

Turning the page, I think Capel is up to the task and, trying to be optimistic, I think he is far more likely to play a deeper bench and not yank these kids as soon as they screw up a few possessions. I am trying to convince myself that Capel at the helm will speed the development of the freshmen.

This season really has turned into a soap opera. It's insane.

Rich
01-02-2017, 12:12 PM
Stunning news ... but IF it's just four weeks, it's not too bad. Especially since I suspect he will be able to watch video and have input during the time he comes back. I share Philaduke's optimism -- K comes back in early February when Grayson has his issues straightened out and Harry and Marques are healthy enough to be major factors ... that's when Duke turns it on.

FIFY

devil84
01-02-2017, 12:15 PM
Interesting that K will be coaching Wednesday, then having surgery Friday. Hope Cameron is packed with well-wishers for his last game.. for awhile.

Bob Harris will be honored at Wednesday's game. I'm thinking there will also be some recognition on the passing of special assistant and former assistant coach, Colonel Rogers, a long-time Coach K friend.

For most of us who might need back surgery, we'd probably wind up working at our jobs right up until surgery, then have to recover from the surgery at home. Why would coaching be much different?

dukelifer
01-02-2017, 12:18 PM
I found IC to be relatively tame -- a number of wiseacre comments about who gets credit for the wins (and the losses).

I think this is understandable given how many vacated wins they are about to suffer.

-bdbd
01-02-2017, 12:23 PM
Best wishes to Coach K. Lower back issues can be very painful or even debilitating. My father is having lower back surgery tomorrow, by coincidence, due to disc compression issues, and he's been very much looking forward to it and relief from the pain. Though the docs are very reserved about how long he'll be out of action (dad also very active and similar age as K).

I think this event will be very different than '95-'96 simply because he's been through it before and will therefore plan-prep better and we have an experienced head coach ready to take over.

jv001
01-02-2017, 12:24 PM
Stunning news ... but IF it's just four weeks, it's not too bad. Especially since I suspect he will be able to watch video and have input during the time he comes back. I share Philaduke's optimism -- K comes back in early February when Grayson has his issues straightened out and Harry and Marques are healthy enough to be major factors ... that's when Duke turns it on.

Two other observations:

-- Haters are gonna hate, so I don't really care whether the games count for K or for Capel. But I hope Duke announces BEFORE the games what they are going to do. That way, the haters won't be able to suggest that the decision was based on how well or how poorly the team did without him.

-- Amazing the Georgia Tech connection. The first game K missed in 1995 was a game at Georgia Tech. He also missed the second Tech game that year (actually it was the third -- the two teams met in Hawaii in December that season). His one missed game since then was last year's game at Georgia Tech. And, now, the second game he misses will be Georgia Tech. That will be four missed Georgia Tech game in his career.

-- I hope the team reacts as they did a year ago, not in 1995. In '95, Duke had already started its slide (losing at home to a bad Clemson team in K's last game). They went to Atlanta without K and were non-competitive, starting a long slide. A year ago, Duke went to Atlanta in bad shape, having lost four of five and not playing well (and having just dropped out of the poll). Capel led Duke to a tough 80-71 win that kickstarted a five-game win streak, including the wins over Virginia, Louisville and at UNC. Not sure if he did anything different or better than K -- all starters played 30-plus minutes, but he did give Chase Jeter eight minutes (he had played a total of six minutes in the previous month).
It will be interesting to see how Capel -- who is probably our next head coach -- handles things in K's absence.

During that game, didn't Coach Capel use the 1-3-1 zone for a good part of the game. My memory is not as good as it used to be. My wife used to be amazed that I could not only remember how many strokes I had on all 18 holes but I could remember what the other 3 guys had on every hole. Now I'm lucky to know what I had on every hole. I'm confident Coach Capel can lead us to victory. GoDuke!

freshmanjs
01-02-2017, 12:25 PM
During that game, didn't Coach Capel use the 1-3-1 zone for a good part of the game. My memory is not as good as it used to be. My wife used to be amazed that I could not only remember how many strokes I had on all 18 holes but I could remember what the other 3 guys had on every hole. Now I'm lucky to know what I had on every hole. I'm confident Coach Capel can lead us to victory. GoDuke!

They had planned and practiced only zone. First half wasn't going so great. He decided on the fly to scrap it and try m2m. It worked. Team was much more aggressive.

freshmanjs
01-02-2017, 12:27 PM
It didn't take long, did it?

...and Dougie in on the action too:

Doug Gottlieb ‏@GottliebShow 1m1 minute ago
Does Pete Gaudet get any upcoming loses on his record too? #Duke

ipatent
01-02-2017, 12:30 PM
I'm sure Jeff is a capable bench coach, but this won't help the practice deficit that already exist because of injuries.

TruBlu
01-02-2017, 12:30 PM
...and Dougie in on the action too:

Doug Gottlieb ‏@GottliebShow 1m1 minute ago
Does Pete Gaudet get any upcoming loses on his record too? #Duke

Doug is alarmingly in-original.

Ima Facultiwyfe
01-02-2017, 12:37 PM
We are in Capel-ble hands.
Love, Ima

uh_no
01-02-2017, 12:47 PM
-- Haters are gonna hate, so I don't really care whether the games count for K or for Capel. But I hope Duke announces BEFORE the games what they are going to do. That way, the haters won't be able to suggest that the decision was based on how well or how poorly the team did without him.

It's not up to duke. it's up to the NCAA, and the record will likely count against Capel (assuming he is coaching the game). K has always held the '95 losses should be on his record since he is ultimately responsible. I highly doubt duke would not honor his wishes if they had the choice.

DUKIE V(A)
01-02-2017, 12:53 PM
We are in Capel-ble hands.
Love, Ima

Agreed. Coach Capel and the rest of the staff are outstanding and will be up to the challenge. I expect they will utilize the bench a bit more liberally.

Best wishes to Coach K. Get well soon. Can't wait to see you write the next brilliant chapter in your career and quiet all the haters -- yet again.

ipatent
01-02-2017, 12:54 PM
I think a formal leave of absence is distinguishable from a few sick days as far as allocating wins is concerned, no hypocrisy at all as far as the Gaudet situation is concerned.

In any event, if K would been credited with the Gaudet period it would have reduced his career winning percentage a bit, but he'd have a few more wins toward 1100.

Rich
01-02-2017, 12:55 PM
I suffered on-and-off back pain for years and finally opted for a discectomy about 15 years ago when it became unbearable and started to effect my quality of life. The procedure itself was outpatient and not that big a deal. I think it took about an hour. I was also back at work within a week, but it took a full year for complete recovery. And by that, I mean it took a year before I felt comfortable playing softball, golf and tennis and there was no pain whatsoever. However, for 6-8 weeks after the surgery I went through physical therapy which included weight exercises to strengthen my core, stretching, radio-therapy, and massages. To this day my workout includes specific weight training and core strengthening exercises such as planks. Coach K is as disciplined as anyone and has the best care around. Although I was about 35 and substantially younger than Coach K is now, I have no doubt he will have have a quick recovery.

Billy Dat
01-02-2017, 12:56 PM
Let's say Capel gets it rolling with these guys....will it help to have K step back in? I know that sounds ridiculous, "Will K help?" but I think it's relevant, it will represent yet another disruption.

FadedTackyShirt
01-02-2017, 12:56 PM
Odd coincidence that the game K missed last season was also against GT. Capel will have a nice audition to see how he handles leading the team for an extended period.

That's the only royal blue lining. Far from ideal circumstances, but a baptism of fire for Capel.

CDu
01-02-2017, 01:01 PM
It's not up to duke. it's up to the NCAA, and the record will likely count against Capel (assuming he is coaching the game). K has always held the '95 losses should be on his record since he is ultimately responsible. I highly doubt duke would not honor his wishes if they had the choice.

I would prefer to think of it these games counting FOR Coach Capel, not against him.

OldPhiKap
01-02-2017, 01:13 PM
Prayers for a full and quick recovery.

devildeac
01-02-2017, 01:16 PM
Nasty tweet here

Ah, yes, another media dirtbag. Nothing about a speedy recovery, just some @#$wipe comment.

devildeac
01-02-2017, 01:19 PM
I would never venture to IC on a day like today but I did visit Pack Pride..I was astonished at the chippy comments. What human being makes light of someone's health?

I expected better from Pack fans. I guess I was disillusioned.:mad:

The human being part of it dissolves when it's done in the name of Duke/K hating.

devildeac
01-02-2017, 01:23 PM
...and Dougie in on the action too:

Doug Gottlieb ‏@GottliebShow 1m1 minute ago
Does Pete Gaudet get any upcoming loses on his record too? #Duke

Maybe d-bag dougie can ask what the ncaa did ~21 years ago.

More unalarming unintelligence from the master.

NM Duke Fan
01-02-2017, 01:25 PM
I have the utmost confidence in the remaining coaching staff, who were trained by the best! To me this is just another story that the media can run rampant with, with various nasty extrapolations easily made by those of weak journalistic acumen and/or integrity.

I actually like the timing of this operation. He faced the facts, made the decision with wise counsel, and was decisive. Better to get this over with now and then be able to put a greater level of energy into the latter part of a still very much intact season!

Papa John
01-02-2017, 01:26 PM
Turning the page, I think Capel is up to the task and, trying to be optimistic, I think he is far more likely to play a deeper bench and not yank these kids as soon as they screw up a few possessions. I am trying to convince myself that Capel at the helm will speed the development of the freshmen.

I am in complete agreement with you on this. From what we've seen of Capel thus far, he certainly has a tendency to dig deeper into his bench than K to give guys a blow and keep them fresh for the stretch run in each game. I have a feeling we'll see some solid minutes for all of the top-billed frosh, and hopefully that will help accelerate their development and also help accelerate the development of overall team chemistry. We shall see...

As for the all the hot Tweets/takes... Ah, Twitter—a social platform with such grand potential that never truly materialized... Will this be the year they get acquired, or go belly up?

jipops
01-02-2017, 01:27 PM
I know this may not be the most popular opinion, but with everything that has gone wrong this may actually be the least impactful. Capel will be just as adept at bringing the big guys into the fold as K and equally as effective at managing lineups. I'm still much more concerned about how far along Bolden and Giles get as well as the mental state of Grayson when he comes back. I'm even much more concerned about whether or not Matt's 3pt shot comes back.

Cumulatively this seems like a huge brick, a cinder block even, when combined with everything that has gone on so far. But by itself I see this as a very minor blip. It may even have a silver lining with the emotional lift provided when he comes back.

Wander
01-02-2017, 01:28 PM
I'm optimistic that we can be really good in March, but I'm concerned that all these issues are going to cost us in seeding. We only have one good win - a neutral court win against a team currently ranked 24th. It's not hard to imagine all the injuries, the Grayson situation, and now Coach K's absence collectively costing us an ACC title and bumping us from a 1 seed to a 3 or 4 seed.

Olympic Fan
01-02-2017, 01:28 PM
It's not up to duke. it's up to the NCAA, and the record will likely count against Capel (assuming he is coaching the game). K has always held the '95 losses should be on his record since he is ultimately responsible. I highly doubt duke would not honor his wishes if they had the choice.

Not true -- it is up to Duke.

It would be different if K was suspended by the NCAA. When Boeheim missed nine games a year ago for the NCAA, those did not count.

For injury absences, the NCAA allows the school to make the decision.

NashvilleDevil
01-02-2017, 01:29 PM
At least for today. Saban kicked Kiffin to the curb and Sark will be the OC for the title game. Thank you Saban for pushing K's surgery and all the conspiracies about 94-95 off the front page for the next week.

devildeac
01-02-2017, 01:31 PM
At least for today. Saban kicked Kiffin to the curb and Sark will be the OC for the title game. Thank you Saban for pushing K's surgery and all the conspiracies about 94-95 off the front page for the next hour or two.

Clarification.

devildeac
01-02-2017, 01:32 PM
It is over.

Post #6. Well done, mattman . :p

NashvilleDevil
01-02-2017, 01:36 PM
Clarification.

Perhaps. Today is also Black Monday in the NFL so that will draw headlines and there are some big bowl games today. Then you have he NFL playoffs this weekend and that will be discussed as nauseum. I am with everybody in wishing for a speedy and safe recovery for Coach.

Doria
01-02-2017, 01:36 PM
Good luck and a speedy recovery, Coach K! Health is the most important thing, so it's good to take care of it, as the need arises!

Bob Green
01-02-2017, 01:48 PM
My best wishes to Coach K for a full and speedy recovery. Your health is infinitely more important than basketball so take as long as it takes.

Tom B.
01-02-2017, 01:48 PM
At times like this, I remember the immortal words of Lou Brown:

https://youtu.be/kL4cEH2JdQQ?t=20

DBFAN
01-02-2017, 01:54 PM
This will make it even sweeter when we start winning again because we can now say that we are so good that you couldn't stop us when we were hobbled and without a coach. Trust me all the fans of other teams talking trash will realize that losing to us without K is a far more embarrassing thing

mgtr
01-02-2017, 02:10 PM
K has put together a great staff -- time to earn your pay, boys! I am happy that Coach decided to take care of himself first. I would guess that this short-term difficulty may extend his coaching career longer.

I am optimistic going forward.

TKG
01-02-2017, 02:14 PM
This just in from Chapel Hill, in an effort to reclaim the news cycle from Duke Basketball, Coach Roy Williams has announced that he will have his entire spine removed.

mgtr
01-02-2017, 02:20 PM
This just in from Chapel Hill, in an effort to reclaim the news cycle from Duke Basketball, Coach Roy Williams has announced that he will have his entire spine removed.

That should be a rather simple operation!

Jarhead
01-02-2017, 02:27 PM
My concerns are first for Coach K, and second for the players. I had back surgery about 25 years ago, and it was no picnic, but I have faith in the coaching staff. As for the players, this might be as tough for them as it will be for Coach. My prime concern is Jayson. If he can straighten out, the rest of the team will be OK.

CrazyNotCrazie
01-02-2017, 02:50 PM
I'm hoping for a speedy recovery, but not too speedy - he needs to be 100% and not rush back.

Nolan has a variety of limitations in his "special assistant" role - I'm assuming these limitations can't be temporarily lifted when K is on leave?

53n206
01-02-2017, 02:59 PM
This just in from Chapel Hill, in an effort to reclaim the news cycle from Duke Basketball, Coach Roy Williams has announced that he will have his entire spine removed.

What spine?

DBFAN
01-02-2017, 02:59 PM
I really Think Capel may be able to generate some new life with this team. I would much rather still have K, but don't discount what Capel may bring to this team. They don't have an identity and Capel may be the one to best help them find it. Some times a brief change in the routine is what kids need to help form a better perspective

DBFAN
01-02-2017, 03:02 PM
Just saw that Nolan Smith will be elevated to assistant while K is out

freshmanjs
01-02-2017, 03:02 PM
4 weeks. Back for UNC @ Duke Feb 9?!?

Mrezt
01-02-2017, 03:02 PM
My concerns are first for Coach K, and second for the players. I had back surgery about 25 years ago, and it was no picnic, but I have faith in the coaching staff. As for the players, this might be as tough for them as it will be for Coach. My prime concern is Jayson. If he can straighten out, the rest of the team will be OK.

What do you mean straighten out? Has something been going on with him?

duke4ever19
01-02-2017, 03:09 PM
Yeah, WTF? I'd never pegged Fraschilla as a secret Duke hater, but that is pretty petty and largely irrelevant.

The Duke haters want it both ways.

With Pete Gaudet, they think it unfair that he got credit for the games wins/losses he coached (because the team struggled).

With Coach Capel, they think it unfair if he doesn't get credit for the games he will coach (because this team will still be winning most of it's games . . . knock on wood).

Lauderdevil
01-02-2017, 03:10 PM
Obviously this is lousy news, and for Coach K to take a leave he must be in a lot of pain. I hope he has a speedy recovery.

But couldn't one see this as almost perfectly timed for the program's long term? We all love Coach Capel, but no one can know for sure whether he'd be the right successor when the time ultimately comes. He gets a chance for an extended tryout here under perfect circumstances: an enormous amount of talent on a team that hasn't yet gelled; a significant outstanding issue with a star player; an integration process of key players; a string of rusty, subpar performances. If he fixes these issues, it's strong evidence that he can be the head coach we all want him to be one day. If he's overwhelmed, he's obviously not the guy. He has all the tools to be extremely successful, but a set of problems that ensure that he won't be successful except through his own strong leadership and performance.

And he will prove all this not just to those of us who pay attention year-round to Duke basketball. He'll prove himself (or not) to future recruits who will one day be deciding whether they still want to come to Duke without getting to play for Coach K.

I hate seeing Coach K suffering. But as usual, I think he's going to end up helping the program over the next month -- just not the way we'd all like. One month from now everyone will have a much better sense of whether Duke has its next head coach already on the bench, or will have to look outside to find one. And, by the way, either way there will still be time left in this season by the time K comes back to begin (or continue) a drive toward the 2017 national championship.

Jarhead
01-02-2017, 03:21 PM
What do you mean straighten out? Has something been going on with him?

I'm sorry, what's your question? We'll not have Coach K for a while, and we need full support of the players, including Grayson.

Dr. Rosenrosen
01-02-2017, 03:22 PM
I'm sorry, what's your question? We'll not have Coach K for a while, and we need full support of the players, including Grayson.
You said Jayson. Assume you meant Grayson.

DU82
01-02-2017, 03:23 PM
I'm hoping for a speedy recovery, but not too speedy - he needs to be 100% and not rush back.

Nolan has a variety of limitations in his "special assistant" role - I'm assuming these limitations can't be temporarily lifted when K is on leave?

You can have a temporary coach/assistant coach in case of an injury/illness. When Al Brown had to leave the women's team two seasons ago, Michele Van Gorp officially was an assistant coach during his absence. This is important as to who is allowed to actively coach on the bench. An administrative person, such as Michele, has, as you mentioned, limitations in their role, such as not being allowed to coach players during games (she can offer encouragement, but not give instructions.)

(DBFAN already mentioned that Nolan will be an assistant in the interim.)

jwillfan
01-02-2017, 03:36 PM
And contains some good tibdits:


In 1995, Krzyzewski missed the final 19 games of the season, and a 9-3 Blue Devil start was followed by a 4-15 nosedive. After a particularly devastating two-point loss to Maryland, the Duke point guard at the time said, "When [Krzyzewski] was with us, we felt like we could win those games."

The point guard's name was Jeff Capel.

Now it's Capel's turn to sub in for his old coach.

In a charmed season turned chaotic for Duke, this will be the biggest challenge for the Blue Devils yet.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/18395218/duke-coach-mike-krzyzewski-bad-back-just-latest-biggest-headache-blue-devils

UrinalCake
01-02-2017, 03:47 PM
Just saw that Nolan Smith will be elevated to assistant while K is out

I was wondering about that. During the TV broadcast of the VT game they said that Nate James was sick and that Nolan Smith had taken over as one of the assistants (presumably in Scheyer's place, while Scheyer took James' spot). So it seems logical that Smith would be brought in during K's absence, with everyone else bumping up a spot.

I also wonder how practices are going to be run. Usually Jon works with the guards, James works with the bigs, Capel does some of both, while K serves as overlord and watches over everything. If Capel is now the overlord, then I imagine Smith will be more hands-on with the players in practice.

BD80
01-02-2017, 03:54 PM
This just in from Chapel Hill, in an effort to reclaim the news cycle from Duke Basketball, Coach Roy Williams has announced that he will have his entire spine removed.


What spine?

I think it would be properly characterized as exploratory surgery.



As for Coach K - I blame 2016. 2016 sucked.

ChillinDuke
01-02-2017, 03:56 PM
Weirdest.

Season.

Ever.

- Chillin

OldPhiKap
01-02-2017, 03:57 PM
Weirdest.

Season.

Ever.

- Chillin

Even Annie Savoy can't get lucky this season.

BD80
01-02-2017, 04:08 PM
Even Annie Savoy can't get lucky this season.

You've just got to take them one game at a time and give 110% each game.

OldPhiKap
01-02-2017, 04:11 PM
You've just got to take them one game at a time and give 110% each game.

And the rose always goes in the front, big fella.

I would post the YouTube of the lollygagger speech, but I believe there is some brief nudity.

Indoor66
01-02-2017, 04:23 PM
That should be a rather simple operation!

Probably just exploratory because everyone strongly suspects that there's nothing there. Ba, Ba, Ba BOOM!

Troublemaker
01-02-2017, 04:38 PM
I am in complete agreement with you on this. From what we've seen of Capel thus far, he certainly has a tendency to dig deeper into his bench than K to give guys a blow and keep them fresh for the stretch run in each game. I have a feeling we'll see some solid minutes for all of the top-billed frosh, and hopefully that will help accelerate their development and also help accelerate the development of overall team chemistry. We shall see...

Here's the box score (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=400839769) for GaTech last season for a refresher.

I'd say there's a bit of mythology built up over Jeff's one game as head coach last season. He didn't play deeper but most Duke fans remember it that way for some reason. I think it basically comes down to he played Vrank for one minute (in which Vrank picked up 1 turnover and 1 foul [possibly on the same play if it was an offensive foul]), and that 1 minute of Vrank hypnotized folks into believing something that isn't really true. (And for those wondering, he played Matt Jones 39 minutes.)

But look, Coach Capel did a great job. As freshmanjs mentioned upthread, the switch to m2m defense turned that game around. No switch, no win.

DBFAN
01-02-2017, 04:41 PM
Ok so I'm gonna give my optimistic and no inside info view. I'm not 100 percent convinced that this back surgery wasn't already planned. It just seems like if you are going to have a new coach soon, why not have him be the main recruiter for a few years. Have him recruit the best possible class possible, and instead of making them start in a new season with new players, why not let him coach an extremely talented team that he assembled. Not for an entire season but for a few weeks. I know this is all conspiracy like, but we all know K wants this program to be in good shape when he leaves, what better way than to have the future coach show the recruits what they can do in Durham

OldPhiKap
01-02-2017, 04:44 PM
Here's the box score (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=400839769) for GaTech last season for a refresher.

I'd say there's a bit of mythology built up over Jeff's one game as head coach last season. He didn't play deeper but most Duke fans remember it that way for some reason. I think it basically comes down to he played Vrank for one minute (in which Vrank picked up 1 turnover and 1 foul [possibly on the same play if it was an offensive foul]), and that 1 minute of Vrank hypnotized folks into believing something that isn't really true. (And for those wondering, he played Matt Jones 39 minutes.)

But look, Coach Capel did a great job. As freshmanjs mentioned upthread, the switch to m2m defense turned that game around. No switch, no win.

Capel was also the one who suggested we play zone at Louisville, after two dreadful losses in the 2015 season.

Jeff is ready for the challenge, and of course his prior experience as head coach of Oklahoma and VCU means he will not be intimidated in the position. Frankly, we have been lucky to have him on the sidelines the last few seasons because he could be running a program elsewhere.

I look forward to seeing what happens, although obviously wish it was not under these circumstances.

arnie
01-02-2017, 04:50 PM
Ok so I'm gonna give my optimistic and no inside info view. I'm not 100 percent convinced that this back surgery wasn't already planned. It just seems like if you are going to have a new coach soon, why not have him be the main recruiter for a few years. Have him recruit the best possible class possible, and instead of making them start in a new season with new players, why not let him coach an extremely talented team that he assembled. Not for an entire season but for a few weeks. I know this is all conspiracy like, but we all know K wants this program to be in good shape when he leaves, what better way than to have the future coach show the recruits what they can do in Durham

Seems there's no discussion surrounding the elephant in the room. Might K retire after the surgery and before next season? Pushing 70 and major back issues would do it for most that hold easier office jobs.

MChambers
01-02-2017, 04:53 PM
Seems there's no discussion surrounding the elephant in the room. Might K retire after the surgery and before next season? Pushing 70 and major back issues would do it for most that hold easier office jobs.
I suppose that is possible, but there's absolutely no indication that that is contemplated, so any discussion seems to verge on rumor mongering. I'd just take Duke and Coach K at their word.

ipatent
01-02-2017, 04:53 PM
Here's the box score (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=400839769) for GaTech last season for a refresher.

I'd say there's a bit of mythology built up over Jeff's one game as head coach last season. He didn't play deeper but most Duke fans remember it that way for some reason. I think it basically comes down to he played Vrank for one minute (in which Vrank picked up 1 turnover and 1 foul [possibly on the same play if it was an offensive foul]), and that 1 minute of Vrank hypnotized folks into believing something that isn't really true. (And for those wondering, he played Matt Jones 39 minutes.)

But look, Coach Capel did a great job. As freshmanjs mentioned upthread, the switch to m2m defense turned that game around. No switch, no win.

I think there was a little more Jeter in that game as well.

DBFAN
01-02-2017, 04:59 PM
Seems there's no discussion surrounding the elephant in the room. Might K retire after the surgery and before next season? Pushing 70 and major back issues would do it for most that hold easier office jobs.

This has been on my mind since the end of the last Championship season. To be Honest I felt the whole being sick last year, for that game against GT was just smoke and mirrors. I had thought he was gonna retire then, but his commitment to USA basketball may have made him rethink it. I don't think any of the injuries were made into a bigger deal than they were, I just think that K wasn't gonna let Capel run a team without them being as healthy as possible. I would love for K to coach forever, but I have also been excited to see what Capel can do. He has a certain toughness and bravado that K had when he started. K has forever been one of my heroes and one of the greatest basketball minds to ever walk the earth, but this sport is hard on a person. Tough on the mind and body. Social media has completely changed the way anything happens in this game, and Capel is primed and ready to be the next man up.

CDu
01-02-2017, 05:05 PM
Seems there's no discussion surrounding the elephant in the room. Might K retire after the surgery and before next season? Pushing 70 and major back issues would do it for most that hold easier office jobs.


I suppose that is possible, but there's absolutely no indication that that is contemplated, so any discussion seems to verge on rumor mongering. I'd just take Duke and Coach K at their word.

Yeah, I agree. I mean, we KNOW there are only a finite (and likely small) number of years left with Coach K coaching. But I have trouble believing the number is less than one.

I do hope that this extended stretch with Capel at the helm helps ease the transition whenever Coach K does decide to retire.

DBFAN
01-02-2017, 05:10 PM
I think there was a little more Jeter in that game as well.

Well that's why we are saying this is not evidence based, but just a suspicion At the same time tho I can't recall a time in which K wanted injured players to be 100 percent healed before they come back. Heck he even had Grayson still playing although he looked like he needed a wheelchair, and I think most of us found it odd. In no way shape or form have we ever known K to value one players health over another regardless of their lottery prospects. There was no way on earth that Tatum wasn't as healthy as Grayson during that time. But it would indeed make sense if he thought Capel would need to coach, because he wants him to have the best hand possible. Of course these are just opinions, but they aren't in any way rumor mongering because nothing we have said says that something has happened, it's just a guess in why, and nothing we have said is in any way negative. It would actually be a very smart and tactical plan that would benefit Capel and the Program, so spreading rumors isn't exactly applicable.

DBFAN
01-02-2017, 05:12 PM
Sorry about that ^ I quoted wrong one my bad

DBFAN
01-02-2017, 05:14 PM
But anywhose I really think Capel will do an extraordinary job during this time. The man knows how to communicate and relate to these younger kids and I imagine he will give them a sense of direction by making them play for the skipper, as cheesy as it sounds that stuff motivates a team, and brings them together

ipatent
01-02-2017, 05:28 PM
This has been on my mind since the end of the last Championship season. To be Honest I felt the whole being sick last year, for that game against GT was just smoke and mirrors. I had thought he was gonna retire then, but his commitment to USA basketball may have made him rethink it. .

He's had several surgeries and sprung back, but nothing lasts forever.


I would love for K to coach forever, but I have also been excited to see what Capel can do. He has a certain toughness and bravado that K had when he started. K has forever been one of my heroes and one of the greatest basketball minds to ever walk the earth, but this sport is hard on a person. Tough on the mind and body. Social media has completely changed the way anything happens in this game, and Capel is primed and ready to be the next man up.

K will leave a great legacy that will help the next coach with recruiting and the framework of his system. Jeff will be well situated to take over, but we'll have to keep our fingers crossed because nothing comes automatically in the ACC. He'll have a tougher job keeping Duke on top than Kevin Ollie had in a diluted Big East, or when a school like Kansas or Kentucky has a coaching change, because those schools traditionally dominate their conferences.

DBFAN
01-02-2017, 05:29 PM
Here's a tweet that I just saw. Just sayin

#Duke's Jeff Capel on the Coach K's decision to have surgery: “As a coaching staff we knew it was coming. We just didn’t know exactly when.”

DBFAN
01-02-2017, 05:34 PM
He's had several surgeries and sprung back, but nothing lasts forever.



K will leave a great legacy that will help the next coach with recruiting and the framework of his system. Jeff will be well situated to take over, but we'll have to keep our fingers crossed because nothing comes automatically in the ACC. He'll have a tougher job keeping Duke on top than Kevin Ollie had in a diluted Big East, or when a school like Kansas or Kentucky has a coaching change, because those schools traditionally dominate their conferences.

I completely agree with it being tougher on Duke than UCONN, but at the same time they didn't have the talent level we have this year. If this team were to ever figure out and start clicking, the ACC wouldn't scare me at all, but they haven't yet so can only hope they do

Mrezt
01-02-2017, 05:35 PM
I'm sorry, what's your question? We'll not have Coach K for a while, and we need full support of the players, including Grayson.

Nevermind, you said Jayson in the post I quoted above so i thought that maybe something was going on with him too. But yes I agree, everybody needs to be on board

arnie
01-02-2017, 05:48 PM
I suppose that is possible, but there's absolutely no indication that that is contemplated, so any discussion seems to verge on rumor mongering. I'd just take Duke and Coach K at their word.

I doubt it's planned either, but complications from surgeries at 69+++ can really slow us down. I've been pleasantly surprised he's stayed this long; just think with this news retirement in 2017 is a more likely than I thought yesterday.

Steven43
01-02-2017, 06:14 PM
Geez, what next??? Capel is very capable to get us to February, however. Good luck, Coach. Get well soon. Very soon!

I hope you turn about to be correct, but I can't help but be skeptical. Capel's last two seasons as a head coach (Oklahoma) were dismal failures with records of 13-18 and 14-18, respectively, which resulted in the axe falling ingloriously on his head.

If he can help pull this team together under the very difficult circumstances which he is most assuredly about to face, he will have gone a long way toward showing he should be given legitimate consideration as eventual successor to Coach. He ain't there yet.

UrinalCake
01-02-2017, 06:16 PM
Capel was also the one who suggested we play zone at Louisville, after two dreadful losses in the 2015 season.

During Jabari's year when we used the platoon system for a few games, K said it was the assistants who had suggested the idea to him as a way to get everyone involved. I always assumed he was referring to Capel.

Will be interesting to see what he does. I also remember him using the bench more last year in the GT game but as others have said, it was mostly Vrank and Jeter getting minutes which fans had been calling for. Plummer had been playing almost the full 40 every game prior to that.

WakeDevil
01-02-2017, 06:17 PM
Here is one IC poster offering solace: "Lets not show the Ratface any respect and say we did! He respects no one is evil and thinks he is better than anyone else. ! I hope he's in so much pain all he can do is lay in the bed (Coffin in his case) or let him lay in traction the whole time in awful pain as he watches Capel goes 2-8! Oh wait it would be more painful for him if Capel went 8-2."

devildeac
01-02-2017, 06:20 PM
Here is one IC poster offering solace: "Lets not show the Ratface any respect and say we did! He respects no one is evil and thinks he is better than anyone else. ! I hope he's in so much pain all he can do is lay in the bed (Coffin in his case) or let him lay in traction the whole time in awful pain as he watches Capel goes 2-8! Oh wait it would be more painful for him if Capel went 8-2."

May the Hammer of Thor destroy his miserable carcass and program.

Ultrarunner
01-02-2017, 06:39 PM
May the Hammer of Thor destroy his miserable carcass and program.

Might I suggest that the Hammer of Thor destroy the Cheaters program, but he gets to watch, helplessly?
He should also get to repeat it endlessly, And, Groundhog Day-like, given how they've dragged it out, seemingly forever, to taunt us?

mgtr
01-02-2017, 06:41 PM
Here is one IC poster offering solace: "Lets not show the Ratface any respect and say we did! He respects no one is evil and thinks he is better than anyone else. ! I hope he's in so much pain all he can do is lay in the bed (Coffin in his case) or let him lay in traction the whole time in awful pain as he watches Capel goes 2-8! Oh wait it would be more painful for him if Capel went 8-2."

I will be fairly happy if Capel goes 8-2!

NashvilleDevil
01-02-2017, 06:49 PM
I hope you turn about to be correct, but I can't help but be skeptical. Capel's last two seasons as a head coach (Oklahoma) were dismal failures with records of 13-18 and 14-18, respectively, which resulted in the axe falling ingloriously on his head.

If he can help pull this team together under the very difficult circumstances which he is most assuredly about to face, he will have gone a long way toward showing he should be given legitimate consideration as eventual successor to Coach. He ain't there yet.

Because young coaches shouldn't get a 2nd chance. Don't forget the guy who he is filling in for wasn't exactly lighting the world on fire at Army when Duke hired him.

ipatent
01-02-2017, 06:49 PM
This won't help recruiting either.

NashvilleDevil
01-02-2017, 06:51 PM
This won't help recruiting either.

Why is that? Recruiting is still going strong and I think Duke is still the favorites for Bamba and Knox and is in the hunt for one of the top PGs. It also appears that K will be back this year.

Duke76
01-02-2017, 06:55 PM
This won't help recruiting either.

just heard the news and haven't read anything prior on thread but the one game he coached last year was at Georgia Tech and I was there...thought it was a fantastic game and job of coaching by Capel....had great offensive sets,,, ran alot of plays for Allen ala JJ type sets and it worked well....he played zone quite a bit which I think K is hesitant to do and it helped on defensive end

he is the chief recruiting assistant....he's the one I want to take K's place anyway...bring it on...not worried in the least that we will perform less than on par to K

Duke76
01-02-2017, 06:58 PM
Here's the box score (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=400839769) for GaTech last season for a refresher.

I'd say there's a bit of mythology built up over Jeff's one game as head coach last season. He didn't play deeper but most Duke fans remember it that way for some reason. I think it basically comes down to he played Vrank for one minute (in which Vrank picked up 1 turnover and 1 foul [possibly on the same play if it was an offensive foul]), and that 1 minute of Vrank hypnotized folks into believing something that isn't really true. (And for those wondering, he played Matt Jones 39 minutes.)

But look, Coach Capel did a great job. As freshmanjs mentioned upthread, the switch to m2m defense turned that game around. No switch, no win.

i dont remember the switch to man to man, might be right but I thought it was the offense that played well with these great sets to Grayson.....like JJ coming off picks...i was there and thats what i remember....

Duke76
01-02-2017, 07:00 PM
i dont remember the switch to man to man, might be right but I thought it was the offense that played well with these great sets to Grayson....like JJ coming off picks...i was there and thats what i remember...
just looked at box score 7 out of 10 from 3 point land...thats what i remember...I do remember the switch to man to man now that I think of it

hsheffield
01-02-2017, 07:05 PM
I suffered on-and-off back pain for years and finally opted for a discectomy about 15 years ago when it became unbearable and started to effect my quality of life. The procedure itself was outpatient and not that big a deal. I think it took about an hour. I was also back at work within a week, but it took a full year for complete recovery. And by that, I mean it took a year before I felt comfortable playing softball, golf and tennis and there was no pain whatsoever. However, for 6-8 weeks after the surgery I went through physical therapy which included weight exercises to strengthen my core, stretching, radio-therapy, and massages. To this day my workout includes specific weight training and core strengthening exercises such as planks. Coach K is as disciplined as anyone and has the best care around. Although I was about 35 and substantially younger than Coach K is now, I have no doubt he will have have a quick recovery.


not to mention that he has one of the best surgeons around in Friedman. he's to neurosurgery what K is to basketball.

kmspeaks
01-02-2017, 07:17 PM
Well that's why we are saying this is not evidence based, but just a suspicion At the same time tho I can't recall a time in which K wanted injured players to be 100 percent healed before they come back. Heck he even had Grayson still playing although he looked like he needed a wheelchair, and I think most of us found it odd. In no way shape or form have we ever known K to value one players health over another regardless of their lottery prospects. There was no way on earth that Tatum wasn't as healthy as Grayson during that time. But it would indeed make sense if he thought Capel would need to coach, because he wants him to have the best hand possible. Of course these are just opinions, but they aren't in any way rumor mongering because nothing we have said says that something has happened, it's just a guess in why, and nothing we have said is in any way negative. It would actually be a very smart and tactical plan that would benefit Capel and the Program, so spreading rumors isn't exactly applicable.

Or we could take K and the Duke program at their word when they said Grayson was still playing because the medical staff said he could as long as he could handle the pain since he did not risk further injury while playing, and they did not say the same for Jayson, Harry, or Marques.

Devil2
01-02-2017, 07:26 PM
Or we could take K and the Duke program at their word when they said Grayson was still playing because the medical staff said he could as long as he could handle the pain since he did not risk further injury while playing, and they did not say the same for Jayson, Harry, or Marques.

Because you know the snide remarks are coming about Coach K trying to doctor his record, below are the NCAA rules regarding coaching wins and losses records

HEAD COACH DETERMINATION
In order for a coach to be credited with wins, losses or ties, that individual must be designated as the
institution’s head coach or interim head coach. Individuals serving on an advisory or preseason basis
may not be credited with the wins, losses or ties. If the head coach is not present at a contest due to
illness or other unexpected circumstances, or otherwise is unable to complete the sport season, it is the
responsibility of the institution to determine, preferably prior to the contest, whether the win, loss or tie for
that contest shall be credited to the head coach or to an interim or assistant coach. If the decision is made
after the season is over, consider if the new coach influenced the team enough to make a difference in
how the team performed (such as style of play). If a coach is no longer employed by the institution as the
head coach, that coach can no longer be credited with further wins or losses after the day the relationship
was terminated.
The following are examples from Division I men’s basketball teams that have been in the NCAA tournament.
The circumstances and institutions’ decisions are as follows:
●● In 1989, Rich Daly coached Missouri in the tournament after Norm Stewart became ill and was
hospitalized late in the season. Missouri credited Stewart for the entire season.
●● Also in 1989, Steve Fisher coached Michigan in the tournament after Bill Frieder took a job at
Arizona State between the regular season and the postseason. Michigan split the won-lost record
and Fisher was credited with the tournament games and a national championship. NOTE: On
Fisher’s official record, he will be credited with one season coached and a 6-0 record.
●● In 1995, Mike Krzyzewski had coached Duke to a 9-3 record before having back surgery and
missing the remainder of the season. As determined by Duke before interim coach Pete Gaudet
coached a game, Gaudet received all the wins and losses for the remainder of the season.
●● In 2001, Rick Majerus coached Utah in its first game of the season and had to miss the rest of the
season because of his own health problems and concerns for his mother’s health. Utah credited
the rest of the season to interim head coach Dick Hunsaker.
●● Also in 2001 at Arizona, the wife of Lute Olson passed away and Coach Olson took a leave of
absence for an undetermined amount of time. Since it was not known if Olson would return at
all that season, Arizona decided to credit the interim coach, assistant Jim Rosborough, with any
games played during Olson’s absence. Olson missed five games and Rosborough was credited
with a 3-2 record while Olson’s record was 25-6 for the games before and after his leave.
Generally, if a coach misses a game or limited amount of games due to a temporary illness, transportation
trouble, etc., the wins or losses by the team in his or her absence will usually go to the head coach.

(Updated 5/1/2014)
SUSPENDED COACH

If a head coach is suspended for a game or more by the school or conference, he or she is still eligible
to receive the wins or losses in his or her absence, but some institutions have chosen to give the record
to the interim coach. If a head coach is suspended by the Committee on Infractions, he or she will not
receive credit for the wins or losses; those decisions will go toward the interim coach’s record. Other
unique circumstances will be evaluated on a case-by-case basis. (Updated 5/1/2014)

CO-HEAD COACHES

Both coaches must be declared co-head coaches by the institution before the season begins OR at the
time of a coaching change. Both co-head coaches will be credited with the team’s won-lost record

Steven43
01-02-2017, 07:31 PM
Because young coaches shouldn't get a 2nd chance. Don't forget the guy who he is filling in for wasn't exactly lighting the world on fire at Army when Duke hired him.

The program at Duke in Mike's first few years was in no way comparable to the situation Capel helped create in Oklahoma.

NashvilleDevil
01-02-2017, 07:34 PM
The program at Duke in Mike's first few years was in no way comparable to the situation Capel helped create in Oklahoma.

I'm talking about K's tenure at Army. He didn't exactly set the world on fire at West Point before he got hired at Duke.

Troublemaker
01-02-2017, 08:38 PM
I hope you turn about to be correct, but I can't help but be skeptical. Capel's last two seasons as a head coach (Oklahoma) were dismal failures with records of 13-18 and 14-18, respectively, which resulted in the axe falling ingloriously on his head.

If he can help pull this team together under the very difficult circumstances which he is most assuredly about to face, he will have gone a long way toward showing he should be given legitimate consideration as eventual successor to Coach.

Fair or not, this is probably true. How the team fares during this month or so of Coach Capel being at the helm will play an outsized role in his candidacy to replace Coach K.

I'll be rooting hard for him.

DBFAN
01-02-2017, 08:42 PM
He also compiled a record of 79-41 at VCU so its not like he just had 2 bad seasons at Oklahoma, we should prob give him a bit more credit than that

bludev
01-02-2017, 08:42 PM
FWIW, I have lots of confidence in Coach Capel (and I bet K does too) ... that being said, the team he inherits as "head coach" is in deep search for some chemistry, a problem no doubt created by highly talented yet inexperienced players trying to productively fit in relatively late in the season, and made worse by Grayson A's issue ... so who knows what will happen ... IMHO, we fans need to display a bit of patience.

Hope you get better soon Coach K ... Dr Friedman has "doctored" me, you're in pretty good hands !

PS - Duke does seem a bit snake bitten recently, but considering all the things that've happened in the last couple of months, nothing should surprise.

wavedukefan70s
01-02-2017, 08:46 PM
I believe we will be ok.capel is a good coach and relates to the players.he did a lot of recruiting.kids believed him enough to come to duke.they will still believe in him.

devildeac
01-02-2017, 08:50 PM
At least K is only taking a LOA...

OldPhiKap
01-02-2017, 08:52 PM
At least K is only taking a LOA...

Which is one better than Roy taking his NOA.

mgtr
01-02-2017, 08:53 PM
In some ways, the Capel time isn't a fair test since he is dealing with many unknowns (but K would be in the same boat). You pretty much know what you will get from Kennard, Jefferson, and Jones. Beyond that, it is sort of a grabbag. You have a bunch of players with great upside, but their current level doesn't seem to be there yet. And who knows what Grayson may contribute.
I think we will do well, but it will be a thrill ride. Sort of reminds me of the old carnival motorcycle wall of death. Of course we don't want any deaths, but all the balls will be in the air (including Capel's).
Interesting times, indeed.

Reilly
01-02-2017, 08:55 PM
At least K is only taking a LOA...


Which is one better than Roy taking his NOA.

Will Graves was at Roy's house b/c there was no room at KOA.

devildeac
01-02-2017, 08:56 PM
Which is one better than Roy taking his NOA.

My point exactly...

;)

And, BTW, just FTR, ol' roy can take his NOA and...

Saratoga2
01-02-2017, 08:59 PM
In some ways, the Capel time isn't a fair test since he is dealing with many unknowns (but K would be in the same boat). You pretty much know what you will get from Kennard, Jefferson, and Jones. Beyond that, it is sort of a grabbag. You have a bunch of players with great upside, but their current level doesn't seem to be there yet. And who knows what Grayson may contribute.
I think we will do well, but it will be a thrill ride. Sort of reminds me of the old carnival motorcycle wall of death. Of course we don't want any deaths, but all the balls will be in the air (including Capel's).
Interesting times, indeed.

I would add Tatum to this list as he is already a major contributor to the team.

jseelke
01-02-2017, 09:02 PM
So, I happen to agree with both of those that mentioned Gaudet in this case. I interacted on Twitter with the head of stats from the NCAA, who noted that it's the institution that sets the precedent on wins and loses. Supposedly Duke claimed in 95 for Gaudet to get the wins and loses right after K stepped aside (and Duke was 9-3). I covered the team for the Chronicle that year, and remember the tough season (I also remember the best game ever that I saw in Cameron - even if it it was a loss...the game against UNC with the miracle shot from of course...Jeff Capel.

That being said, personally I think it's bad precedent to have the record not apply in one case (when the team was clearly not as talented as this year's team) and this year the wins/loses go to K. It just looks bad. I really wish that Kevin White (I'm guessing the AD made the decision) decided to follow what happened in 95 and have the wins and loses go to the interim coach.

Many have noted that in 95 he was out for the entire year - and was away from the team completely. Not sure if that will be the case here. While the comments by Fran and Doug were not tactful at all, I do feel there was some truth behind them.


...and Dougie in on the action too:

Doug Gottlieb ‏@GottliebShow 1m1 minute ago
Does Pete Gaudet get any upcoming loses on his record too? #Duke

Troublemaker
01-02-2017, 09:06 PM
So, I happen to agree with both of those that mentioned Gaudet in this case. I interacted on Twitter with the head of stats from the NCAA, who noted that it's the institution that sets the precedent on wins and loses. Supposedly Duke claimed in 95 for Gaudet to get the wins and loses right after K stepped aside (and Duke was 9-3). I covered the team for the Chronicle that year, and remember the tough season (I also remember the best game ever that I saw in Cameron - even if it it was a loss...the game against UNC with the miracle shot from of course...Jeff Capel.

That being said, personally I think it's bad precedent to have the record not apply in one case (when the team was clearly not as talented as this year's team) and this year the wins/loses go to K. It just looks bad. I really wish that Kevin White (I'm guessing the AD made the decision) decided to follow what happened in 95 and have the wins and loses go to the interim coach.

Many have noted that in 95 he was out for the entire year - and was away from the team completely. Not sure if that will be the case here. While the comments by Fran and Doug were not tactful at all, I do feel there was some truth behind them.


Has there been some announcement to the contrary?

Don't defend "Fran and Doug." They're idiots.

tbyers11
01-02-2017, 09:34 PM
Has there been some announcement to the contrary?

Don't defend "Fran and Doug." They're idiots.

Yes, according to Doug Worlock, the NCAA stats guy referenced in the previous post by jseelke. I found his tweets via a retweet from Adam Rowe


David Worlock
‏@DavidWorlock
It's trivial but FYI, Duke's wins and losses during Coach Krzyzewski's absence will be credited to Coach K, not Coach Capel.

He says that he called Duke and that is what they said they were going to do.

He also tweeted that Duke decided before Gaudet's first game in 1995 that the wins/losses would go to Gaudet


David Worlock ‏@DavidWorlock 5h5 hours ago
Duke was 9-3 in '95 when Coach K needed season-ending back surgery. Before Game 13, Duke informed NCAA Gaudet would get Ws and Ls. #Fact

Personally, I don't care who gets the W/L's and don't see how any non-Duke hater really cares one way or the other. Consistency with Duke 1995 would be nice but at the moment they are truly different situations. K was going to be out the rest of the year in 1995. And he is expected back within 4 weeks here. There is no official rule, but lots of recent precedent from many schools that LOA's in which the head coach returns before the end of the season have the games attributed to the head coach and not the acting coach.

DU82
01-02-2017, 09:42 PM
Yes, according to Doug Worlock, the NCAA stats guy referenced in the previous post by jseelke. I found his tweets via a retweet from Adam Rowe



He says that he called Duke and that is what they said they were going to do.

He also tweeted that Duke decided before Gaudet's first game in 1995 that the wins/losses would go to Gaudet



Personally, I don't care who gets the W/L's and don't see how any non-Duke hater really cares one way or the other. Consistency with Duke 1995 would be nice but at the moment they are truly different situations. K was going to be out the rest of the year in 1995. And he is expected back within 4 weeks here. There is no official rule, but lots of recent precedent from many schools that LOA's in which the head coach returns before the end of the season have the games attributed to the head coach and not the acting coach.

The second quote (how do I get that to show up?). Is just wrong. First, K's surgery was before the season, not during the season and not season ending. The problem was that he tried to come back too soon. (Pat Sullivan, a player for the cheaters, had surgery about the same time and too longer to get back, and he was 25 years younger.). And when it was announced he wasn't going to coach at GT, it was not announced that it was for the rest of the season, that came later. I think the Duke SID is retroactively changing things.

tbyers11
01-02-2017, 09:55 PM
The second quote (how do I get that to show up?). Is just wrong. First, K's surgery was before the season, not during the season and not season ending. The problem was that he tried to come back too soon. (Pat Sullivan, a player for the cheaters, had surgery about the same time and too longer to get back, and he was 25 years younger.). And when it was announced he wasn't going to coach at GT, it was not announced that it was for the rest of the season, that came later. I think the Duke SID is retroactively changing things.

In his responding tweets, Warlock says that NCAA stats notes from 1995 said that. I never said that K's surgery occurred at the time that he took the LOA in 1995. I was in high school in Wisconsin in 1995 so I didn't closely follow how his leave of absence was announced (temporary, indefinite, or year-ending). Was there originally an idea that he would be back shortly? Reading about that time, particularly quotes from Mickie K, it seemed like it was going to be a long-time absence from the beginning regardless of how it was originally announced to the public. There could be some retroactive work there from Duke SID and I might have the initial expected time off incorrect for 1995 but I don't see how an impartial NCAA official would make up the fact the Duke told the NCAA before game 13 what the decision would be

As I said earlier, I don't really care who gets the wins in 1995 or this year. About the only thing that matters one bit to me is that the Duke hater teeth-gnashing about this will take some attention away from Grayson hype.

DU82
01-02-2017, 10:12 PM
In his responding tweets, Warlock says that NCAA stats notes from 1995 said that. I never said that K's surgery occurred at the time that he took the LOA in 1995. I was in high school in Wisconsin in 1995 so I didn't closely follow how his leave of absence was announced (temporary, indefinite, or year-ending). Was there originally an idea that he would be back shortly? Reading about that time, particularly quotes from Mickie K, it seemed like it was going to be a long-time absence from the beginning regardless of how it was originally announced to the public. There could be some retroactive work there from Duke SID and I might have the initial expected time off incorrect for 1995 but I don't see how an impartial NCAA official would make up the fact the Duke told the NCAA before game 13 what the decision would be

As I said earlier, I don't really care who gets the wins in 1995 or this year. About the only thing that matters one bit to me is that the Duke hater teeth-gnashing about this will take some attention away from Grayson hype.

Sorry to imply that you made the incorrect reference to the surgery; the quote I referred to wasn't copied in my reply to you. I was referring to the second tweet/ quote from the NCAA official.

The intent of the break from Mickie's view was to get Coach K fully recovered, and in her view he had to leave the team. It was not immediately announced as a "rest of the season" break. That took a few weeks. That's why I'm surprised Duke or anybody even thought about who was getting credit for coaching those games at the time before the GT game, and that there's a record of that with the NCAA. It was only after the season it was announced that Pete Gaudet would be recognized as an interim coach with the record credited to him. For me, if you (or more precisely the NCAA guy) get the first half wrong with the timing of the surgery, it brings to question the second half, the Timing of the decision.

tbyers11
01-02-2017, 10:22 PM
Sorry to imply that you made the incorrect reference to the surgery; the quote I referred to wasn't copied in my reply to you. I was referring to the second tweet/ quote from the NCAA official.

The intent of the break from Mickie's view was to get Coach K fully recovered, and in her view he had to leave the team. It was not immediately announced as a "rest of the season" break. That took a few weeks. That's why I'm surprised Duke or anybody even thought about who was getting credit for coaching those games at the time before the GT game, and that there's a record of that with the NCAA. It was only after the season it was announced that Pete Gaudet would be recognized as an interim coach with the record credited to him. For me, if you (or more precisely the NCAA guy) get the first half wrong with the timing of the surgery, it brings to question the second half, the Timing of the decision.

The NCAA guy says that he wasn't there in 1995 so he doesn't have first hand knowledge just what the record says now. I see your point since it wasn't announced as the rest of the season at the onset that the timing of the decision seems a little off. It does appear the decision to attribute the wins and losses to Coach K has been made already for this year.

Anyway, best wishes to Coach K on a successful surgery and speedy recovery.

jseelke
01-02-2017, 10:24 PM
Has there been some announcement to the contrary?

Don't defend "Fran and Doug." They're idiots.

I agree the way they said it was bad, but I do not disagree with their thinking. Frankly I have a bad taste in my mouth thinking about the way Pete Gaudet was treated at Duke. First even as the oldest assistant he was the "restricted earnings coach"...meaning he had to teach classes and run camps to make ends meet. And while Duke may have made the decision when K left at 9-3 to give the record to Gaudet, it just looks bad now to give the W/L to K this year, when he has a better team and probably chances at more wins

As I have posted in other places personally I think the NCAA needs a standard rule like the NBA (when Luke Walton got no credit for the wins for the Warriors)...as in 95 I hope Duke manages to win a lot of games...but if somehow they lose I feel that the same standards should have applied in this case as in 1995...

sagegrouse
01-02-2017, 10:37 PM
Seems there's no discussion surrounding the elephant in the room. Might K retire after the surgery and before next season? Pushing 70 and major back issues would do it for most that hold easier office jobs.

That's a common view on Inside Carolina today.

sagegrouse
01-02-2017, 10:40 PM
The second quote (how do I get that to show up?). Is just wrong. First, K's surgery was before the season, not during the season and not season ending. The problem was that he tried to come back too soon. (Pat Sullivan, a player for the cheaters, had surgery about the same time and too longer to get back, and he was 25 years younger.). And when it was announced he wasn't going to coach at GT, it was not announced that it was for the rest of the season, that came later. I think the Duke SID is retroactively changing things.

There was a complex set of health problems that K faced in 1995, not all of them related to the back. I hope this is strictly a "fix the back" issue.

sagegrouse
01-02-2017, 10:53 PM
I agree the way they said it was bad, but I do not disagree with their thinking. Frankly I have a bad taste in my mouth thinking about the way Pete Gaudet was treated at Duke. First even as the oldest assistant he was the "restricted earnings coach"...meaning he had to teach classes and run camps to make ends meet. And while Duke may have made the decision when K left at 9-3 to give the record to Gaudet, it just looks bad now to give the W/L to K this year, when he has a better team and probably chances at more wins...

I agree that the Pete Gaudet situation was hardly optimal. He didn't recruit, so under the rules at the time, he had to labor in the vineyards at a mandated lower pay rate. And at some point, he was no longer needed and had to leave.

DevilFalcon
01-02-2017, 11:16 PM
I believe we'll see deeper use of the bench with Capel if last year's GT game is any indication. He went 2/3 guys deeper than K was at the time. I see vrank and javin and maybe white benefiting from this.

Don't fret my fellow fans. I still believe we'll hang #6 after this season.

uh_no
01-02-2017, 11:27 PM
I believe we'll see deeper use of the bench with Capel if last year's GT game is any indication. He went 2/3 guys deeper than K was at the time. I see vrank and javin and maybe white benefiting from this.

Don't fret my fellow fans. I still believe we'll hang #6 after this season.

Last year was a slightly different situation given how thin we were overall. I would expect chase/bolden/giles/frank to benefit more than vrank or javin...especially since it seems javin has some health issues.

swood1000
01-03-2017, 12:27 AM
At least K is only taking a LOA...

Which is one better than Roy taking his NOA.

Will Graves was at Roy's house b/c there was no room at KOA.
Of course, the bottom line, based on the COI's November 28 letter (https://carolinacommitment.unc.edu/files/2016/12/November-28-2016-letter-from-Committee-on-Infractions.pdf), is that it appears that UNC's status at the COI hearing will be DOA.

billy
01-03-2017, 01:35 AM
Ok so I'm gonna give my optimistic and no inside info view. I'm not 100 percent convinced that this back surgery wasn't already planned. It just seems like if you are going to have a new coach soon, why not have him be the main recruiter for a few years. Have him recruit the best possible class possible, and instead of making them start in a new season with new players, why not let him coach an extremely talented team that he assembled. Not for an entire season but for a few weeks. I know this is all conspiracy like, but we all know K wants this program to be in good shape when he leaves, what better way than to have the future coach show the recruits what they can do in Durham

I'm certainly not any more informed than you, but, based on the GoDuke article indicating he'd been treating the pain "conservatively" for a month and that the procedure was to remove "a fragment of herniated disc", this doesn't seem like a pre-planned scheme. Even considering his age and prior back surgery, I'd be very surprised if he wasn't back much sooner than a month in an increasingly hands-on manner. The procedure, based on the info from the GoDuke article, sure sounds like a microdiscectomy, a walk in the park for Dr. Friedman. K said himself that he wasn't close to retirement as recently as June:

http://http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/15883751/duke-mike-krzyzewski-focused-future-not-retirement (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/15883751/duke-mike-krzyzewski-focused-future-not-retirement)

FadedTackyShirt
01-03-2017, 04:26 AM
Last year was a slightly different situation given how thin we were overall. I would expect chase/bolden/giles/frank to benefit more than vrank or javin...especially since it seems javin has some health issues.

Hadn't noticed, but has Javin dressed the last few games? Has played in 8 games, so would qualify for a medical redshirt if he doesn't play again this season.

NSDukeFan
01-03-2017, 05:04 AM
At least K is only taking a LOA...


Which is one better than Roy taking his NOA.

Pretty sure Roy doesn't give a s&;! about NOAs.

flyingdutchdevil
01-03-2017, 06:18 AM
That's a common view on Inside Carolina today.

Surprised it's not talked about here. We all comment on Coach K's longevity as 'he'll coach as long as he can'. Well, a back injury can absolutely force any man or woman into retirement.

Do I think he'll retire after this season? nope. But would I be surprised if he did? Nope.

sagegrouse
01-03-2017, 07:54 AM
I'm certainly not any more informed than you, but, based on the GoDuke article indicating he'd been treating the pain "conservatively" for a month and that the procedure was to remove "a fragment of herniated disc", this doesn't seem like a pre-planned scheme. Even considering his age and prior back surgery, I'd be very surprised if he wasn't back much sooner than a month in an increasingly hands-on manner. The procedure, based on the info from the GoDuke article, sure sounds like a microdiscectomy, a walk in the park for Dr. Friedman. K said himself that he wasn't close to retirement as recently as June:

http://http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/15883751/duke-mike-krzyzewski-focused-future-not-retirement (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/15883751/duke-mike-krzyzewski-focused-future-not-retirement)

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a daily first -- a comment from a board certified orthopedic surgeon on an appropriate medical issue. Thanks, Billy. For the next three hours you will own the internet.

devilsince1977
01-03-2017, 08:03 AM
All this talk about retirement seems a little premature to me. I suspect that K felt that the limited schedule in December would give him time for his back to improve. At least enough that he could delay the procedure until after the season. When it did not improve, it was decided to get it done so he could make it back for the end of the regular season and the tournaments. When the other coaches said they knew it was coming; they did not say they had know for months or even weeks. I suspect that they knew he was having back pain that needed addressed but did not expect it to happen until after the season.

I am not worried about coach Capel leading the team for the next few weeks. He is one of only a handful of coaches that have taken a team to the final four. He was the main recruiter for most of the players. They trust him. It does give him a great opportunity to audition for K's eventual retirement. If we go 8 & 2 over the next 10 games; I will be ecstatic.

Get your back healthy K. Back pain is a real bummer.

UrinalCake
01-03-2017, 08:04 AM
That being said, personally I think it's bad precedent to have the record not apply in one case (when the team was clearly not as talented as this year's team) and this year the wins/loses go to K. It just looks bad. I really wish that Kevin White (I'm guessing the AD made the decision) decided to follow what happened in 95 and have the wins and loses go to the interim coach

I think the difference is that in 1995 Gaudet was taking over the team for the remainder of the season, which was more than half of the season. It made sense to transition everything over to him. This year Capel will only be taking over for about 4 weeks, so maybe 8 or so games, so it really is more of a temporary thing.

DukeandMdFan
01-03-2017, 08:45 AM
At the time, I thought it was a favor to Pete Gaudet who was expected to have a good season.

Duke was 9-2 (and I had just bought a 7 of 9 Final Four tee-shirt).

moonpie23
01-03-2017, 09:33 AM
i don't know what i was thinking......i was going to venture over to IC and........and what? expose my eyes to the cheaters' take on our coach's situation? hahahahaha......why? why would i do that? tequila is NOT "what's for breakfast" anymore.....

DukeandMdFan
01-03-2017, 09:34 AM
Yes, according to Doug Worlock, the NCAA stats guy referenced in the previous post by jseelke. I found his tweets via a retweet from Adam Rowe



He says that he called Duke and that is what they said they were going to do.

He also tweeted that Duke decided before Gaudet's first game in 1995 that the wins/losses would go to Gaudet



Personally, I don't care who gets the W/L's and don't see how any non-Duke hater really cares one way or the other. Consistency with Duke 1995 would be nice but at the moment they are truly different situations. K was going to be out the rest of the year in 1995. And he is expected back within 4 weeks here. There is no official rule, but lots of recent precedent from many schools that LOA's in which the head coach returns before the end of the season have the games attributed to the head coach and not the acting coach.

Because Coach K is the all-time wins leader, I think the concern about who gets credits for the wins is relevant to Duke haters and non-Duke haters. That said, I don't think anybody will care about it as much as the Duke haters.

Edouble
01-03-2017, 09:41 AM
Surprised it's not talked about here. We all comment on Coach K's longevity as 'he'll coach as long as he can'. Well, a back injury can absolutely force any man or woman into retirement.

Do I think he'll retire after this season? nope. But would I be surprised if he did? Nope.

Coach K has had a lot of surgery over the years, including a lot of off season surgery recently. There is a cumulative effect on the body with invasive procedures. As one ages, at some point a person's body can only take so much.

jimsumner
01-03-2017, 09:59 AM
I am not worried about coach Capel leading the team for the next few weeks. He is one of only a handful of coaches that have taken a team to the final four. He was the main recruiter for most of the players. They trust him. It does give him a great opportunity to audition for K's eventual retirement. If we go 8 & 2 over the next 10 games; I will be ecstatic.

Get your back healthy K. Back pain is a real bummer.

Well, Capel did help Duke to the 1994 Final Four, as a player. As a head coach, the best he did was Elite Eight.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
01-03-2017, 10:22 AM
Because Coach K is the all-time wins leader, I think the concern about who gets credits for the wins is relevant to Duke haters and non-Duke haters. That said, I don't think anybody will care about it as much as the Duke haters.

I would say since he is the all time wins leader, no one will care very much how these games are scored. It is a done deal.

flyingdutchdevil
01-03-2017, 11:08 AM
Coach K has had a lot of surgery over the years, including a lot of off season surgery recently. There is a cumulative effect on the body with invasive procedures. As one ages, at some point a person's body can only take so much.

Yeah. I'm sadly convinced that Coach K's body will force him to retire and not his mind (ie lack of drive or just fatigue).

My dad is the exact same age as Coach K and has back issues. It really unmotivated him to do certain things. If this were a hip or limb issue, I'd be less concerned. But back? At age 69? :(

Get well soon coach! Hope your body feels like a 42 year old again.

cspan37421
01-03-2017, 12:05 PM
At the time, I thought it was a favor to Pete Gaudet who was expected to have a good season.

Duke was 9-2 (and I had just bought a 7 of 9 Final Four tee-shirt).

Actually, Duke was 9-3 (and had lost the 12th game) when K had to step aside.

Not a terrible start by any means ... just not 9-2.

kAzE
01-03-2017, 12:06 PM
Yeah. I'm sadly convinced that Coach K's body will force him to retire and not his mind (ie lack of drive or just fatigue).

Get well soon coach! Hope your body feels like a 42 year old again.

My thoughts as well. I hope Coach can get his physical health right, because mentally, he's as passionate and as driven as he's ever been. He's said so himself as recently as this summer.

But his health comes before his career, and all we can do is hope for the best.

Troublemaker
01-03-2017, 12:12 PM
I agree the way they said it was bad, but I do not disagree with their thinking. Frankly I have a bad taste in my mouth thinking about the way Pete Gaudet was treated at Duke. First even as the oldest assistant he was the "restricted earnings coach"...meaning he had to teach classes and run camps to make ends meet.

Explain to me how Coach Gaudet was mistreated. The "restricted earnings" position was not Duke's creation but the NCAA's, and I'm happy that Gaudet was able to eventually defeat the NCAA in court and destroy that restriction. But no big-time college basketball program was going to place Gaudet in a regular pay slot. The most valued skill by a college assistant -- basketball or football -- is recruiting skill. So, the regular pay slots were going to go to recruiting thoroughbreds like Amaker and Brey who busted their butts on the road. As for Coach Gaudet having to teach classes and run camps, do you think maybe Duke placed his application for Phys Ed instructor at the top of the heap? Do you think maybe the Duke basketball brand helped him gain camp attendees? I would say Duke treated him well and as best we could given the NCAA's restriction.

BD80
01-03-2017, 12:22 PM
This is an exciting time for the program.

We have the most talent of any team, and we've had more than our share of challenges.

The net sum is that in a way, we are underdogs despite having the most talent in the country and the best coach of all time.

We've already seen unexpected improvement from Luke and Amile, flashes of potential from Jayson and Frank, and signs that everybody will soon be back healthy.

With K on a LOA, it will give the team a bit of a shake up, which may give a player or two the impetus they need to break through. Personally, I'm looking at this as the perfect chance for Harry to break out - he no longer has the luxury of allowing everyone else to carry the load.

In seasons like this started out to be, I don't enjoy watching games as much, being the hunted rather than the hunter. Now we get to be a bit more of the hunter ...

sagegrouse
01-03-2017, 12:30 PM
Explain to me how Coach Gaudet was mistreated. The "restricted earnings" position was not Duke's creation but the NCAA's, and I'm happy that Gaudet was able to eventually defeat the NCAA in court and destroy that restriction. But no big-time college basketball program was going to place Gaudet in a regular pay slot. The most valued skill by a college assistant -- basketball or football -- is recruiting skill. So, the regular pay slots were going to go to recruiting thoroughbreds like Amaker and Brey who busted their butts on the road. As for Coach Gaudet having to teach classes and run camps, do you think maybe Duke placed his application for Phys Ed instructor at the top of the heap? Do you think maybe the Duke basketball brand helped him gain camp attendees? I would say Duke treated him well and as best we could given the NCAA's restriction.

Old Timers will remember when all assistant coaches taught Phys Ed. I had basketball asst. and later UConn head coach Fred Shabel for tennis, tennis coach and football assistant Bob Cox for volleyball, and Bucky Waters for boxing and gymnastics (both pretty humorous; fortunately, no video evidence remains). By this measure, Pete Gaudet was definitely "Old School."

rsvman
01-03-2017, 12:39 PM
Because Coach K is the all-time wins leader, I think the concern about who gets credits for the wins is relevant to Duke haters and non-Duke haters. That said, I don't think anybody will care about it as much as the Duke haters.
Which is, apparently, pretty much everybody besides people who post on this board. You would not believe the comments section in the Yahoo news story about this. Yikes!

Oh, and this morning on the radio one of the local sports guys said, essentially, "I'm generally not into conspiracy theories and that kind of junk, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if Coach K is getting this procedure done because his team is reeling right now." He goes on a bit and then says this, "Well, whatever. They'll still win the national title this year because.....well, because they're Duke, so they'll get ridiculous seeding, a bunch of cupcakes to play on their way to the title, and, of course, they get all the calls."

I'd hate to see what he would've said if he WERE a conspiracy theorist! Sheesh.

jimmymax
01-03-2017, 12:52 PM
Apologies, I didn't see it so had to chime in with "Next Play". (I'd love for this trite saying to be retired along with the "Duke Curse").

Such is life -- I hope K bounces back in short order and that in the meantime Capel and the team pull together and excel. Go Duke.

FadedTackyShirt
01-03-2017, 12:52 PM
Yeah, I agree. I mean, we KNOW there are only a finite (and likely small) number of years left with Coach K coaching. But I have trouble believing the number is less than one.

I do hope that this extended stretch with Capel at the helm helps ease the transition whenever Coach K does decide to retire.

Health issues aside, have always thought that K would retire following a national titie and leave a strong returning roster. His successor is likely to be a Dukie and K would like to see him set up for continued success.

A solid Capel run during a difficult time would solidify his front runner status. Conceivably could see a formal coach in waiting announcement if all goes well. Rocky stint would be problematic for recruiting since there would be questions about continuity.

gus
01-03-2017, 01:15 PM
... have always thought that K would retire following a national titie ...

Sounds like that would be cause for a "resignation" rather than a mere "retirement"

Owen Meany
01-03-2017, 01:15 PM
Explain to me how Coach Gaudet was mistreated. The "restricted earnings" position was not Duke's creation but the NCAA's, and I'm happy that Gaudet was able to eventually defeat the NCAA in court and destroy that restriction. But no big-time college basketball program was going to place Gaudet in a regular pay slot. The most valued skill by a college assistant -- basketball or football -- is recruiting skill. So, the regular pay slots were going to go to recruiting thoroughbreds like Amaker and Brey who busted their butts on the road. As for Coach Gaudet having to teach classes and run camps, do you think maybe Duke placed his application for Phys Ed instructor at the top of the heap? Do you think maybe the Duke basketball brand helped him gain camp attendees? I would say Duke treated him well and as best we could given the NCAA's restriction.

The 1995 season was unfortunate for Gaudet. People forget that Duke team was much better than its record and had many "heart-breaking " losses to top teams. In addition to UNC (1 seed, ranked 4th, Stackhouse, Wallace), Maryland (3 seed, ranked 10th, Joe Smith. Exree Hipp) and Wake Forest(1 seed, ranked 4th, Duncan, Childress) were stacked that year. Duke was ranked 11th when Coach K left. Duke lost to UVA (4 seed, ranked 13th) in double overtime, Maryland by 2, UNC by 2 in double OT, Wake by 1, Maryland by 2 again (9 games by 5 or less in total). Without Coach K, the players lacked the confidence to get over the hump in close games. But the team was doing well and expected to do well after Coach K left. So I don't think anyone was trying to pin losses on Gaudet. I thin k the thought was that Gaudet was coaching so the wins/losses would be attributed to him. After that season, Coach K obviously had to change a lot of things. There just was not a place for Gaudet any more, unfortunately, as Duke needed a younger staff to take on more responsibility so he did not burn out. So it is unfortunate the way things played out. Gaudet actually continued to work Coach K's camps for some time after that, so it was not a situation of a very bitter split.

But it is important to note that Coach K was very supportive of Gaudet. He was a very vocal proponent of Gaudet's lawsuit. He spoke before the NCAA convention in an unsuccessful attempt to have the restricted earnings position rule over turned. He had ensured Gaudet was compensated in other ways ($75,000 for running Coach K's summer camps, for example). And I do not believe for a minute he was attempting to stick Gaudet with any losses. In fact, I don't think it was his decision, or that he would have anticipated the number of losses that came.

TexHawk
01-03-2017, 01:41 PM
I am not worried about coach Capel leading the team for the next few weeks. He is one of only a handful of coaches that have taken a team to the final four.

Capel has been a head coach for 9 seasons, and made the NCAA Tournament 3 times, topping out with one Elite 8 with Blake Griffin in 2009.

sagegrouse
01-03-2017, 01:50 PM
Which is, apparently, pretty much everybody besides people who post on this board. You would not believe the comments section in the Yahoo news story about this. Yikes!

Oh, and this morning on the radio one of the local sports guys said, essentially, "I'm generally not into conspiracy theories and that kind of junk, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if Coach K is getting this procedure done because his team is reeling right now." He goes on a bit and then says this, "Well, whatever. They'll still win the national title this year because....well, because they're Duke, so they'll get ridiculous seeding, a bunch of cupcakes to play on their way to the title, and, of course, they get all the calls."

I'd hate to see what he would've said if he WERE a conspiracy theorist! Sheesh.

In my experience, internet comments are garbage and the comments pages are the homes of idiots and perverts. Wait! That's too kind, but I am afraid I have exhausted my vocabulary. OTOH, I found the IC pages to be relatively sane by the standards I described in the previous three sentences.

OZ
01-03-2017, 02:11 PM
On this thread, there are now almost ten pages of posts; and I admit to not having read them all. But in going through several, I began to grow anxious about who gets credit for the wins and losses... what IC would say or is saying... the several negative articles and tweets to which we were linked and/or referred... the evils of ESPN and the comments of their commentators/analysts... what the haters would think or say... would Capel be able to handle this... how would the players (in particular, Allen) react... would we see the resurrection of the Gaudet experience...the strengths and weaknesses of Capel...now, I am confronted with an even more staggering fear - Coach K's resignation or retirement. How have we gotten from a fragment being removed from Coach K's back to his retirement/resignation? With all these concerns, I honestly almost lost sight of what is actually IMPORTANT here, Coach K is (and has been) in pain and needs surgery. What is REALLY important is his health and well being... so Coach, my prayers are for you and for your total healing. We will see you when we see you. Until then, take care of yourself.

Nugget
01-03-2017, 02:40 PM
At the time, I thought it was a favor to Pete Gaudet who was expected to have a good season.

Duke was 9-2 (and I had just bought a 7 of 9 Final Four tee-shirt).

That was my interpretation at the time as well. As someone else noted downthread, the 94-95 team was cursed by an extraordinary string of one possession game losses, which no doubt were partly contributed to be Coach K's absence. But, on the whole, with a Senior All-American caliber player in Cherokee Parks, another Senior C/PF in Erik Meek, a not-terrible Sr. guard Kenny Blakeney, upperclass guards Capel and Collins (plus a freshmen class of Langdon, Wojo and Ricky Price), it was a much stronger personnel group than the team that Coach K took to the NCAAs the following year with an 18-13, 8-8 record -- which essentially replaced Parks/Meek/Blakeney with "hands of stone" Taymon Domzalski and Matt Christensen).

I think there's no question that the 94-95 team would have done better than that, all other things equal (though the ACC as a whole was admittedly much stronger in 94-95 than in 95-96).

I don't recall there being much publicity one way or the other, however, about which coach would get the wins/losses on their record at the time Coach K stepped away. Personally, my recollection is that it only became a big deal once the season went downhill and there were so many losses to "allocate."

If that team had done what it could reasonably have been expected they'd do in a "normal" season (e.g., beat at Cameron a terrible N.C. State team that finished 4-12 in the ACC; win 2 of the 3 they lost close on the road at 8-8 Georgia Tech, at 5-11 Florida St. and at 5-11 Clemson; and win 2 of the 4 soul-crushing one possession home losses to the teams that all tied for first as 12-4, Wake, UNC, Maryland and Virginia), then they'd have gone 18-13, 7-9, been a bubble team, and there would have been much less chatter about which coach got the wins and losses.

Matches
01-03-2017, 02:48 PM
I don't recall there being much publicity one way or the other, however, about which coach would get the wins/losses on their record at the time Coach K stepped away. Personally, my recollection is that it only became a big deal once the season went downhill and there were so many losses to "allocate."

If that team had done what it could reasonably have been expected they'd do in a "normal" season (e.g., beat at Cameron a terrible N.C. State team that finished 4-12 in the ACC; win 2 of the 3 they lost close on the road at 8-8 Georgia Tech, at 5-11 Florida St. and at 5-11 Clemson; and win 2 of the 4 soul-crushing one possession home losses to the teams that all tied for first as 12-4, Wake, UNC, Maryland and Virginia), then they'd have gone 18-13, 7-9, been a bubble team, and there would have been much less chatter about which coach got the wins and losses.

I always thought the thing about the losses was stupid. As if K's record somehow would have been tainted forever by those 14 losses. K's lost hundreds of games in his career, those 14 are basically irrelevant. And of course none of the "haters" seemed to want to give him credit for the 4 wins....

Agree also that though the 95 squad was a far-from-vintage Duke team, K would have gotten much more out of them than Gaudet did. It wasn't a great team by any means but it was far more talented than several teams that finished ahead of it in the standings.

WHOneedsSOX
01-03-2017, 02:57 PM
How does this affect Allen? Unless there's a set timeframe/set # of games he's to be suspended, how will they determine how long he's out? Does Capel now become the one who says when Allen comes back? Coach K and Allen probably won't have very much, if any, physical interactions for a long time.

Duke79UNLV77
01-03-2017, 03:02 PM
That was my interpretation at the time as well. As someone else noted downthread, the 94-95 team was cursed by an extraordinary string of one possession game losses, which no doubt were partly contributed to be Coach K's absence. But, on the whole, with a Senior All-American caliber player in Cherokee Parks, another Senior C/PF in Erik Meek, a not-terrible Sr. guard Kenny Blakeney, upperclass guards Capel and Collins (plus a freshmen class of Langdon, Wojo and Ricky Price), it was a much stronger personnel group than the team that Coach K took to the NCAAs the following year with an 18-13, 8-8 record -- which essentially replaced Parks/Meek/Blakeney with "hands of stone" Taymon Domzalski and Matt Christensen).

I think there's no question that the 94-95 team would have done better than that, all other things equal (though the ACC as a whole was admittedly much stronger in 94-95 than in 95-96).

The 95-96 team lost the 3 best players from the prior year (Parks, Meeks, and Langdon, due to injury), only added Domzalski, and Coach K still led it to the NCAA tournament. Gaudet was an excellent assistant and was back at Duke recently for a basketball event. Frankly, though, he looked panicked at then end of most of those close losses. I have little doubt that K would have led the 94-95 team to the tournament.

MChambers
01-03-2017, 03:07 PM
The 95-96 team lost the 3 best players from the prior year (Parks, Meeks, and Langdon, due to injury), only added Domzalski, and Coach K still led it to the NCAA tournament. Gaudet was an excellent assistant and was back at Duke recently for a basketball event. Frankly, though, he looked panicked at then end of most of those close losses. I have little doubt that K would have led the 94-95 team to the tournament.
I'm sure Gaudet was a fine assistant, but as a head coach he did looked completely panicked, sweating as much as Gary Williams. I always felt that team fed off of Gaudet's panic and itself panicked in most of the close games.

I don't think Capel will have this problem.

flyingdutchdevil
01-03-2017, 03:20 PM
I'm sure Gaudet was a fine assistant, but as a head coach he did looked completely panicked, sweating as much as Gary Williams. I always felt that team fed off of Gaudet's panic and itself panicked in most of the close games.

I don't think Capel will have this problem.

Color me really excited about Capel's "audition", if you will. I firmly believe Capel will take the Duke reins once Coach K retires.

I think Capel is a phenomenal recruiter (the best non-Coach K recruiter Duke has ever had), a solid development of talent, and a good X&Os coach. Based on his short history as a headcoach, his issue seems to be a) sustainability over time (which nearly every coach, elite or not, has issues with. The exceptions are probably Coach K, Calipari, Self, and Bennett. Probably a few others) and b) understanding how the pieces fit when recruiting (I think this partially led to his downfall at Oklahoma as he had talent that just didn't gel). Fortunately, Capel won't face issue a). Issue b) definitely exists with this team, but I wanna see how Capel handles it. How does he figure out integrating the freshman into the team? What will he do about Grayson once he gets back? Who plays PG? How does he deal with our crap transition D? How does he make sure our D, in general, gets better?

So many questions, and I wanna what Capel does.

NM Duke Fan
01-03-2017, 03:36 PM
I am as big of a fan of Coach K and what he has accomplished as anybody.

I don't want to be iconoclastic, but each person has their own strengths. And Jeff Capel may be better at some things than even Coach K. From what I have already observed of his coaching style, the rapport he has with players (including recent recruits), and his years of experience, I can't think of anyone else I would rather have filling in as head coach right now. I have strong confidence that he is up to the task, as are the rest of the coaching staff. They have all been trained by a legend after all!

Doria
01-03-2017, 04:40 PM
I am as big of a fan of Coach K and what he has accomplished as anybody.

I don't want to be iconoclastic, but each person has their own strengths. And Jeff Capel may be better at some things than even Coach K. From what I have already observed of his coaching style, the rapport he has with players (including recent recruits), and his years of experience, I can't think of anyone else I would rather have filling in as head coach right now. I have strong confidence that he is up to the task, as are the rest of the coaching staff. They have all been trained by a legend after all!

Totally agree with this, and I think it's all but certain that Capel is better at some things than Coach K. I mean, I think Coach K is the GOAT as much as any Duke fan, but that doesn't mean his approach is always perfect at the time. He's been vocal about things that he's picked up from other coaches, and I think that's one reason he's had as much success over time as he has. Anyway, I can't wait to get Coach K back, but I am also very excited to see what Capel does. I don't expect him to win every game (would be nice, of course), but I hope he can shake us out of our little funk. And the tough games that he's going to have to coach would have always been tough, even with Coach K.

jseelke
01-03-2017, 05:48 PM
The 1995 season was unfortunate for Gaudet. People forget that Duke team was much better than its record and had many "heart-breaking " losses to top teams. In addition to UNC (1 seed, ranked 4th, Stackhouse, Wallace), Maryland (3 seed, ranked 10th, Joe Smith. Exree Hipp) and Wake Forest(1 seed, ranked 4th, Duncan, Childress) were stacked that year. Duke was ranked 11th when Coach K left. Duke lost to UVA (4 seed, ranked 13th) in double overtime, Maryland by 2, UNC by 2 in double OT, Wake by 1, Maryland by 2 again (9 games by 5 or less in total). Without Coach K, the players lacked the confidence to get over the hump in close games. But the team was doing well and expected to do well after Coach K left. So I don't think anyone was trying to pin losses on Gaudet. I thin k the thought was that Gaudet was coaching so the wins/losses would be attributed to him. After that season, Coach K obviously had to change a lot of things. There just was not a place for Gaudet any more, unfortunately, as Duke needed a younger staff to take on more responsibility so he did not burn out. So it is unfortunate the way things played out. Gaudet actually continued to work Coach K's camps for some time after that, so it was not a situation of a very bitter split.

But it is important to note that Coach K was very supportive of Gaudet. He was a very vocal proponent of Gaudet's lawsuit. He spoke before the NCAA convention in an unsuccessful attempt to have the restricted earnings position rule over turned. He had ensured Gaudet was compensated in other ways ($75,000 for running Coach K's summer camps, for example). And I do not believe for a minute he was attempting to stick Gaudet with any losses. In fact, I don't think it was his decision, or that he would have anticipated the number of losses that came.

Thanks for sharing this...you bring up a lot of good points...I think a lot of it is about perception. It was a tough year all around - I recall camping out for the Carolina game, and there were only 40 or so tents out there...as opposed to the normal amounts. And yes, we lost lots of close games...I think the difference (at least in my mind) - Duke may have decided that gaudet would get the wins and loses right when he stepped away, but as a sports reporter/student/fan that information seems to have become public after the end of the year, when there were lots of losses. This time the information came out up front and publicly (at least via twitter). I would probably feel different if the info had been given ahead of time in 94-95. I also wondered why it was Gaudet - the restricted earnings coach, was given the interim tag - yes, he had the most experience, but there were some experienced assistants on the bench...

hallcity
01-03-2017, 06:24 PM
Maybe everyone else but me knew this but I was surprised to hear Doris Burke, who is broadcasting the UNC at Clemson game, say Coach K is coaching the Ga. Tech game.

BTW, go Tigers.

ElSid
01-03-2017, 07:06 PM
I would like to submit the nickname "Coach K-pel" for the record, if it has not been suggested prior.

mgtr
01-03-2017, 08:05 PM
n the old days this would have been the post of the day. But times have changed.[/B]

Furniture
01-03-2017, 08:17 PM
Maybe everyone else but me knew this but I was surprised to hear Doris Burke, who is broadcasting the UNC at Clemson game, say Coach K is coaching the Ga. Tech game.

BTW, go Tigers.

You must have missed it but there was a clarification shortly after the LOA announcement.

devilsince1977
01-03-2017, 09:06 PM
Capel has been a head coach for 9 seasons, and made the NCAA Tournament 3 times, topping out with one Elite 8 with Blake Griffin in 2009.

Sorry about the mistake, I remember watching the game against the Cheats while I was building a canoe in my shop. I just forgot it was to get to the final four not in the final four.

TexHawk
01-03-2017, 09:12 PM
Color me really excited about Capel's "audition", if you will. I firmly believe Capel will take the Duke reins once Coach K retires.

I think Capel is a phenomenal recruiter (the best non-Coach K recruiter Duke has ever had), a solid development of talent, and a good X&Os coach. Based on his short history as a headcoach, his issue seems to be a) sustainability over time (which nearly every coach, elite or not, has issues with. The exceptions are probably Coach K, Calipari, Self, and Bennett. Probably a few others) and b) understanding how the pieces fit when recruiting (I think this partially led to his downfall at Oklahoma as he had talent that just didn't gel).

IMO, Capel's downfall didn't have much to do with fitting the recruiting pieces together. It was some off-court stuff with the first post-Blake Griffin team, plus NCAA issues with an assistant coach that started the down spiral (which eventually led to vacated wins). He went 13-18 in 2009-10 after being ranked in the Top 15 to start the season, but that was adjusted to 0-18 after the year. He followed that up with a 14-18 season and was fired. The one season he had real talent, with a sophomore Blake Griffin and McDAA freshman Willie Warren, OU won 30 games and went to the aforementioned Elite 8.

Are X&Os really his thing? OU had decent KP numbers in 08-09, but were largely mediocre in other years. And it's not like he was going up against Roy/Bennett/Boeheim/Pitino at OU. His competition in the Big12 was Bill Self and the pupu platter of Rick Barnes, Travis Ford, Wayne Morgan, and Mike Anderson.

With the talent on hand, plus the Duke machine behind him to support, I don't see any reason why Capel can't carry the torch post-K. But I wouldn't say it's certain.

royalblue
01-03-2017, 09:13 PM
Way back when K was within 4 games of passing Dean for 2nd on the all time wins list. I did not hear 1 heel fan want to go back and give K the 4 wins he missed out on in 95.

BD80
01-03-2017, 09:21 PM
Norlander on how this will complicate seeding the Devils:

http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/ncaa-selection-committee-has-unprecedented-task-of-judging-duke-without-coach-k/

weezie
01-03-2017, 09:26 PM
...the pupu platter of Rick Barnes, Travis Ford, Wayne Morgan, and Mike Anderson...

Speaking of sporks...

Blue KevIL
01-03-2017, 10:37 PM
Has there been some announcement to the contrary?

Don't defend "Fran and Doug." They're idiots.

While Doug's idiocy has been well documented regarding his criminal behavior at Notre Dame, Fran is quite the idiot in his own right.

http://www.villagevoice.com/news/foul-shots-6413994

Key passage of the March 2002 article:
New Mexico (15-12) This season was the the pits in the Pit, the legendary home court for the Lobos. Coach Fran Fraschilla, noted in his days as St. John's head coach for dropping trou in front of his players, accused refs after a 50-47 win this season at Air Force of favoring the flyboys because of September 11. He had to make a formal apology—and that was after a win. He got into further trouble when a university report noted that his squad had the lowest average GPA of any of the school's athletic teams—while Fraschilla was chairman of the National Association of Basketball Coaches' Committee on Academics. Nine players quit the program during the coach's three-year tenure, and two others—Patrick Dennehy and Marlon Parmer—were disciplined this season for arguments with teammates and/or coaches during games. New Mexico legislators publicly called for Fraschilla's dismissal. Finally, instead of dropping trou again, Fraschilla pulled up anchor, quitting his job last weekend. (Graduation rate, all students: 38 percent; basketball players: 0 percent)

Any wonder as to why Fran hasn't had a Head Coaching position in 15 seasons?

As a side note: Yes, that is the same Patrick Dennehy who transferred to Baylor and was later murdered by a teammate in 2003.

BandAlum83
01-03-2017, 11:01 PM
...and Dougie in on the action too:

Doug Gottlieb ‏@GottliebShow 1m1 minute ago
Does Pete Gaudet get any upcoming loses on his record too? #Duke

All I can say is a**h**e

Nugget
01-04-2017, 02:25 AM
. I also wondered why it was Gaudet - the restricted earnings coach, was given the interim tag - yes, he had the most experience, but there were some experienced assistants on the bench...

There was no big mystery there. At the time Gaudet was clearly the lead assistant, and had been since the mid-80's. It would have been silly not to make him the interim head coach just bc he was in the restricted earnings spot.

And putting him in that spot when the restricted earnings rule first took effect in 1991 also made perfect sense. The coach in that spot couldn't recruit off campus. Amaker and Brey were great road recruiters and Gaudet was older and didn't want to be on the road as much. The teaching and summer camp part time jobs were basically ruses to get around the restricted earnings rule.

Tom B.
01-04-2017, 09:33 AM
While Doug's idiocy has been well documented regarding his criminal behavior at Notre Dame, Fran is quite the idiot in his own right.

http://www.villagevoice.com/news/foul-shots-6413994

Key passage of the March 2002 article:
New Mexico (15-12) This season was the the pits in the Pit, the legendary home court for the Lobos. Coach Fran Fraschilla, noted in his days as St. John's head coach for dropping trou in front of his players, accused refs after a 50-47 win this season at Air Force of favoring the flyboys because of September 11. He had to make a formal apology—and that was after a win. He got into further trouble when a university report noted that his squad had the lowest average GPA of any of the school's athletic teams—while Fraschilla was chairman of the National Association of Basketball Coaches' Committee on Academics. Nine players quit the program during the coach's three-year tenure, and two others—Patrick Dennehy and Marlon Parmer—were disciplined this season for arguments with teammates and/or coaches during games. New Mexico legislators publicly called for Fraschilla's dismissal. Finally, instead of dropping trou again, Fraschilla pulled up anchor, quitting his job last weekend. (Graduation rate, all students: 38 percent; basketball players: 0 percent)

Any wonder as to why Fran hasn't had a Head Coaching position in 15 seasons?

As a side note: Yes, that is the same Patrick Dennehy who transferred to Baylor and was later murdered by a teammate in 2003.


Thanks for that trip in the way-back machine. I'd forgotten that Teddy Dupay, in addition to being a punk, was also a likely point-shaver.

CDu
01-04-2017, 10:00 AM
After getting called out on his low-class tweet, Fraschilla is now trying to spin it as "Capel is my friend and I just wanted to make sure he gets recognized for his work."

jseelke
01-04-2017, 10:12 AM
There was no big mystery there. At the time Gaudet was clearly the lead assistant, and had been since the mid-80's. It would have been silly not to make him the interim head coach just bc he was in the restricted earnings spot.

And putting him in that spot when the restricted earnings rule first took effect in 1991 also made perfect sense. The coach in that spot couldn't recruit off campus. Amaker and Brey were great road recruiters and Gaudet was older and didn't want to be on the road as much. The teaching and summer camp part time jobs were basically ruses to get around the restricted earnings rule.

Ok, you make a fair point...Still, I wish the the Athletic Dept at the time would have been more up front with things. As other posts noted, it seems (even if it's not the case, perception is important) that Gaudet was given the wins/loses after he happened to struggle during the year. As I mentioned before, I don't recall finding out that Gaudet was credited with the record til much later - honestly, it was around when Coach K was going for the all-time record in wins that I may have first realized it. Twitter and the spread of news is very different in this day than in 1995. You are right - Gaudet didn't get a bad of a deal as Gottleib or Franchella or others may think. Still, the perception looks bad. We can't go back into the past and reverse how it was done in 1995. But personally I would love Kevin White or someone officially (not just the NCAA stats guy on twitter) to explain the reasoning on why K will get credit for the wins/loses this year and how it's different than the situation in 1995. White may get up there and say, "Look I wasn't there in 1995 so I can't speak to the reasoning" - which is fair.

As for the road recruiters, I know that there is recruiting happening during the season - but both Amaker and Brey ended up taking head coaching jobs soon after that season...Why wasn't it seen as a trial for them to be a HC as opposed to Gaudet?

gus
01-04-2017, 10:26 AM
but both Amaker and Brey ended up taking head coaching jobs soon after that season...Why wasn't it seen as a trial for them to be a HC as opposed to Gaudet?

Amaker had only joined the staff 3 years earlier. Brey had more experience than Tommy, but had never been a head coach. Coach Gaudet had been with Coach K since West Point, except for the two years he took over as head coach at Army after Coach K left. On paper, Gaudet was the logical choice to take over as interim head coach.

sagegrouse
01-04-2017, 10:27 AM
Ok, you make a fair point...Still, I wish the the Athletic Dept at the time would have been more up front with things. As other posts noted, it seems (even if it's not the case, perception is important) that Gaudet was given the wins/loses after he happened to struggle during the year. As I mentioned before, I don't recall finding out that Gaudet was credited with the record til much later - honestly, it was around when Coach K was going for the all-time record in wins that I may have first realized it. Twitter and the spread of news is very different in this day than in 1995. You are right - Gaudet didn't get a bad of a deal as Gottleib or Franchella or others may think. Still, the perception looks bad. We can't go back into the past and reverse how it was done in 1995. But personally I would love Kevin White or someone officially (not just the NCAA stats guy on twitter) to explain the reasoning on why K will get credit for the wins/loses this year and how it's different than the situation in 1995. White may get up there and say, "Look I wasn't there in 1995 so I can't speak to the reasoning" - which is fair.

As for the road recruiters, I know that there is recruiting happening during the season - but both Amaker and Brey ended up taking head coaching jobs soon after that season...Why wasn't it seen as a trial for them to be a HC as opposed to Gaudet?

I expect K to be back in the traces within a week or two. Our chief orthopedic medical officer "Billy" thought the likely procedure was no big deal. So, we'll see. If K misses 3-4 games I assume they will show on his record; if, heaven forfend (I have no idea what that means), he is gone the rest of the season, i expect Capel to inherit the wins and losses.

The prolonged absence in 1995 required a decision on who was, for the record book, the head coach of Duke basketball. I doubt it got a second's thought until K's absence lengthened to a month or more. The AD then made a decision and that was that. It became an issue of heated discussion among the small-minded people in the basketball world, but -- really -- who cares?

Kindly,
Sage
'1995 was my first year as a season ticket holder, during my daughter's senior year. My first game was against Clemson, which we proceeded to lose in desultory fashion with K on the bench. Then he disappeared for the rest of the season. I thought it might have been a "work stoppage" linked to my attendance'

CDu
01-04-2017, 10:41 AM
I expect K to be back in the traces within a week or two. Our chief orthopedic medical officer "Billy" thought the likely procedure was no big deal. So, we'll see. If K misses 3-4 games I assume they will show on his record; if, heaven forfend (I have no idea what that means), he is gone the rest of the season, i expect Capel to inherit the wins and losses.

The prolonged absence in 1995 required a decision on who was, for the record book, the head coach of Duke basketball. I doubt it got a second's thought until K's absence lengthened to a month or more. The AD then made a decision and that was that. It became an issue of heated discussion among the small-minded people in the basketball world, but -- really -- who cares?

Kindly,
Sage
'1995 was my first year as a season ticket holder, during my daughter's senior year. My first game was against Clemson, which we proceeded to lose in desultory fashion with K on the bench. Then he disappeared for the rest of the season. I thought it might have been a "work stoppage" linked to my attendance'

It's also worth noting that I doubt the AD at the time realized that it would be such a big deal to some. I mean, the complaints made by the UNC crowd retroactively was that it would hurt Coach K's winning percentage. As though winning percentage was some sort of meaningful thing. I honestly couldn't tell you whether Coach K has a higher or lower winning percentage than Dean Smith (I suspect lower, but have no idea). But does it really matter? But at the time, UNC fans felt it as a potential threat to one of Dean Smith's records. Because at the time Coach K was a LOOOOONG way away from threatening Dean Smith's win total.

Of course, you didn't hear any UNC fans chanting for the two wins Gaudet got to be added to Coach K's win total once Coach K started closing in on Dean's career win total and win total at one school. But that is neither here nor there.

Ultimately, it was a decision made at the time by an AD who didn't foresee it being a big deal. So it didn't get publicized. But given the lack of media available to the public, even if they'd made it abundantly clear from day 1 that Gaudet would get the wins and losses, I don't think it would have made a difference. UNC fans just see the end result and jump to the assumption that Coach K was ducking losses. Even though the reality is that the team could have just as easily had a good season and Gaudet STILL would have gotten those wins and losses. But the facts are never important when trying to bash a rival.

Troublemaker
01-04-2017, 10:49 AM
Also, jseelke, you're approaching everything from the assumption that Duke did something wrong. Which is why it becomes "suspicious" that Duke would give the head coach role over to Gaudet instead of Amaker or Brey.

The fact of the matter is, it was SHOCKING how bad that team turned out to be. At the time of Coach K's departure, everyone was thinking, "okay we probably aren't as good a team without Grant Hill and now without Coach K, but we're going to be a tournament team that nobody wants to play." Duke had made 7 Finals Fours in 9 years. To repeat: it was shocking that that team missed the tournament. So, it wasn't like we knew beforehand and dumped it on Gaudet because we hated him and liked Brey and Amaker better for... reasons.

You mentioned before you thought Gaudet was mistreated. You know what would've been a big insult to him? NOT giving him the head coach role, given the fact that he had the most seniority, was the lead assistant, and had prior head coaching experience.

Just try to approach things from the perspective that "Duke / K are not evil" and things will make sense.

CrazyNotCrazie
01-04-2017, 11:02 AM
It's also worth noting that I doubt the AD at the time realized that it would be such a big deal to some. I mean, the complaints made by the UNC crowd retroactively was that it would hurt Coach K's winning percentage. As though winning percentage was some sort of meaningful thing. I honestly couldn't tell you whether Coach K has a higher or lower winning percentage than Dean Smith (I suspect lower, but have no idea). But does it really matter? But at the time, UNC fans felt it as a potential threat to one of Dean Smith's records. Because at the time Coach K was a LOOOOONG way away from threatening Dean Smith's win total.

Of course, you didn't hear any UNC fans chanting for the two wins Gaudet got to be added to Coach K's win total once Coach K started closing in on Dean's career win total and win total at one school. But that is neither here nor there.

Ultimately, it was a decision made at the time by an AD who didn't foresee it being a big deal. So it didn't get publicized. But given the lack of media available to the public, even if they'd made it abundantly clear from day 1 that Gaudet would get the wins and losses, I don't think it would have made a difference. UNC fans just see the end result and jump to the assumption that Coach K was ducking losses. Even though the reality is that the team could have just as easily had a good season and Gaudet STILL would have gotten those wins and losses. But the facts are never important when trying to bash a rival.

I agree - if the week it was announced that Coach K was not coaching Tom Butters had called another press conference to announce who was getting credit for wins and losses for the rest of the year, I don't think any would have cared. It only became an issue after the fact. I was a student at the time and that ranked very low on my list of concerns regarding the team, even before the implosion began.

I do very clearly remember thinking that Gaudet was the right man for the job at the time, and though he was far from perfect and his anxiety on the bench didn't help, the team was ill-equipped to handle the change and it ended up showing on the court. Despite the team having three future D1 head coaches (Wojo, Collins and Capel) I don't think it had the type of leadership to carry it through the challenges it faced. Plus at the time I believe Coach K completely removed himself from all basketball-related activities, while I'm guessing this year he will be involved.

Olympic Fan
01-04-2017, 11:06 AM
It's also worth noting that I doubt the AD at the time realized that it would be such a big deal to some. I mean, the complaints made by the UNC crowd retroactively was that it would hurt Coach K's winning percentage. As though winning percentage was some sort of meaningful thing. I honestly couldn't tell you whether Coach K has a higher or lower winning percentage than Dean Smith (I suspect lower, but have no idea). But does it really matter? But at the time, UNC fans felt it as a potential threat to one of Dean Smith's records. Because at the time Coach K was a LOOOOONG way away from threatening Dean Smith's win total.

Of course, you didn't hear any UNC fans chanting for the two wins Gaudet got to be added to Coach K's win total once Coach K started closing in on Dean's career win total and win total at one school. But that is neither here nor there.

Ultimately, it was a decision made at the time by an AD who didn't foresee it being a big deal. So it didn't get publicized. But given the lack of media available to the public, even if they'd made it abundantly clear from day 1 that Gaudet would get the wins and losses, I don't think it would have made a difference. UNC fans just see the end result and jump to the assumption that Coach K was ducking losses. Even though the reality is that the team could have just as easily had a good season and Gaudet STILL would have gotten those wins and losses. But the facts are never important when trying to bash a rival.

First, the news that the wins and losses would be credited to Gaudet was announced and well publicized when it was announced that K would be out for the rest of the season -- about 2-3 games into the streak.

Second, the decision to credit the wins and losses to Gaudet was not made by Coach K or by AD Tom Butters. It was made by Sport Information Director Mike Sobb, who called the NCAA and asked what was the procedure in the case of a leave of absence. Sobb was told that it was up to the school. Since K was isolated and not reachable at that point, he had no input in the decision. That's how inconsequential it was viewed at the time -- the decision was basically made by the SID.

Does it really matter whether his record is 1,055-323 (as listed) or 1,060-338 (as it would be with the 19 Gaudet games included)?

Actually it DID once matter. The fact is that K's record at Duke was for many years, very close to Dean's -- in terms of winning percentage. For about 6-7 years, K's winning percentage (at Duke) was better than Dean's -- but not if you included the Gaudet games.

Now it doesn't matter. Even with the Gaudet games included, K's winning percentage at Duke is now .779 (officially, without the Gaudet games, it's .788). Either way, it's better than Dean's Smith's winning percentage at UNC (.776).

You see this a lot -- they'll do anything to hang on to the illusion that Dean with better than K and that UNC's history is better. Why do you think the Helms "national championship" suddenly because such a big deal in Chapel Hill in the early '90s? Almost forgotten by the Heels, it was revived and treated like an NCAA title when K matched UNC in national titles with his two back-to-back championships in 91-92.

Same with the outrage over the Gaudet games -- it was just way to pretend that Dean was better than K.

Interesting that in 1946-47, Kansas coach Phog Allen -- who coached Dean Smith -- took a leave of absence due to health concerns after 13 games. Kansas was 8-5 at the time. Assistant coach Howard Engleman took over and is officially credited with the 8-6 record the team had without Allen. Allen returned in 1947-48. Almost exactly the same situation, but you don't hear about that.

sagegrouse
01-04-2017, 11:24 AM
Second, the decision to credit the wins and losses to Gaudet was not made by Coach K or by AD Tom Butters. It was made by Sport Information Director Mike Sobb, who called the NCAA and asked what was the procedure in the case of a leave of absence. Sobb was told that it was up to the school. Since K was isolated and not reachable at that point, he had no input in the decision. That's how inconsequential it was viewed at the time -- the decision was basically made by the SID.

Interesting that in 1946-47, Kansas coach Phog Allen -- who coached Dean Smith -- took a leave of absence due to health concerns after 13 games. Kansas was 8-5 at the time. Assistant coach Howard Engleman took over and is officially credited with the 8-6 record the team had without Allen. Allen returned in 1947-48. Almost exactly the same situation, but you don't hear about that.

OF, I am disappointed in your use of cliches like "Sobb story" and "Phog of war."

Sir Stealth
01-04-2017, 12:00 PM
It's sad that the main topic of discussion about Coach K's absence is in the conspiracy theory-cheapshot zone, but disappointment over the way those outside of Duke want to see the worst in the program are nothing new. For the fair-minded and Duke fans worried about consistency in how the record will be handled compared to 1995, I think it's pretty clearly an apples and oranges situation. In 1995, a few games in to Coach K's absence it was determined that he need to be completely separate from the program in order to recover. That was not a stay off your feet and rest kind of deal; it included a full mental/physical/spiritual recovery that required K to remove himself from being involved or managing the program.

This appears to be completely different. Coach needs time to physically recover from his surgery, but he is not stepping away from the program. He is still coaching tonight, and I expect that he will be communicating with Coach Capel during the absence. He is still the overall leader for the team for the full course of this season, and will not be separating himself from the management of the program. Given those the difference between the two it's easy to see why he would not be credited for his time away in 1995 but would still be credited as the head coach this year.

LasVegas
01-04-2017, 12:15 PM
Somewhat of a worry for me is that Capel really gets this team going and bolden/Giles start to blossom and get huge minutes. The narrative could easily turn on Duke and be "Well, the only reason the freshman got the playing time they deserved is because of Capel." That narrative could potentially hurt recruiting top talent. I don't think it will be an issue and I would be ecstatic if Capel got the team firing on all cylinders, but it's still something to look for.

CDu
01-04-2017, 12:21 PM
Somewhat of a worry for me is that Capel really gets this team going and bolden/Giles start to blossom and get huge minutes. The narrative could easily turn on Duke and be "Well, the only reason the freshman got the playing time they deserved is because of Capel." That narrative could potentially hurt recruiting top talent. I don't think it will be an issue and I would be ecstatic if Capel got the team firing on all cylinders, but it's still something to look for.

Much like with the narrative about Coach K's first extended leave of absence, I don't care much what the narrative is. I just care whether or not we win games. Because there is always a way to spin these things if one is so inclined. If the team finds its form while Coach K is out, great. If not, but the team then finds its form when Coach K returns, great. If the team finds its form with Capel and loses it with Coach K back, that would stink. If the team never finds its form, that would stink. To Chapel Hill with the narratives.

Troublemaker
01-04-2017, 12:35 PM
Somewhat of a worry for me is that Capel really gets this team going and bolden/Giles start to blossom and get huge minutes. The narrative could easily turn on Duke and be "Well, the only reason the freshman got the playing time they deserved is because of Capel." That narrative could potentially hurt recruiting top talent. I don't think it will be an issue and I would be ecstatic if Capel got the team firing on all cylinders, but it's still something to look for.

So if someone came at you with that narrative, you'd be stumped? No counters possible? End of discussion? Recruits go bye-bye?

We have to work on your argumentation skills, LasVegas.

Luckily, I don't believe Duke's staff would be stumped. No worries here.

LasVegas
01-04-2017, 12:37 PM
Much like with the narrative about Coach K's first extended leave of absence, I don't care much what the narrative is. I just care whether or not we win games. Because there is always a way to spin these things if one is so inclined. If the team finds its form while Coach K is out, great. If not, but the team then finds its form when Coach K returns, great. If the team finds its form with Capel and loses it with Coach K back, that would stink. If the team never finds its form, that would stink. To Chapel Hill with the narratives.

I agree unless the narrative can hurt Duke. We've seen the big man narrative used by coaches in recruiting against Duke and this could turn into another. Again, it's a small issue if it even becomes one but still a worry for me. With that said, I'll be rooting for Capel to do the best job possible and get this team rolling.

LasVegas
01-04-2017, 12:42 PM
So if someone came at you with that narrative, you'd be stumped? No counters possible? End of discussion? Recruits go bye-bye?

We have to work on your argumentation skills, LasVegas.

Luckily, I don't believe Duke's staff would be stumped. No worries here.

I would put up a better fight than Rousey, that's for sure! I'm sure duke's staff would be able to counter easily but narratives don't have to be true to be effective, right?

jv001
01-04-2017, 12:48 PM
I would put up a better fight than Rousey, that's for sure! I'm sure duke's staff would be able to counter easily but narratives don't have to be true to be effective, right?

You can't change some tarholes way of thinking. Most won't do anything but bash Duke. That comes from years of being jealous of Duke's success under Coach K. Now that it's been proven that the fraud that took place at holeville, was begun under saint dean, we at least have a comeback. It's hard to be successful against cheats, but Duke has done really well at it. GoDuke!

English
01-04-2017, 12:54 PM
Somewhat of a worry for me is that Capel really gets this team going and bolden/Giles start to blossom and get huge minutes. The narrative could easily turn on Duke and be "Well, the only reason the freshman got the playing time they deserved is because of Capel." That narrative could potentially hurt recruiting top talent. I don't think it will be an issue and I would be ecstatic if Capel got the team firing on all cylinders, but it's still something to look for.

Wait, so the narrative would be to negatively recruit against Coach K? Like, "hey 5-star recruit, you don't want to go to Duke because that Coach K doesn't know how to use top talent" or "Coach K isn't even the best coach on the staff over in Durham"? This is the same Coach K that won a natty 18mo ago with more OADs in starting roles than returning players, no?

Um, call me crazy but this doesn't pass the smell test for me. Of course, opposing coaches are welcome to use whatever illogical narratives they'd like, but if a recruit can't see through that nonsense, he probably wouldn't qualify academically for Duke anyway. If you're concerned about this possibility, that's your prerogative, but you shouldn't be.

CDu
01-04-2017, 01:18 PM
Wait, so the narrative would be to negatively recruit against Coach K? Like, "hey 5-star recruit, you don't want to go to Duke because that Coach K doesn't know how to use top talent" or "Coach K isn't even the best coach on the staff over in Durham"? This is the same Coach K that won a natty 18mo ago with more OADs in starting roles than returning players, no?

Um, call me crazy but this doesn't pass the smell test for me. Of course, opposing coaches are welcome to use whatever illogical narratives they'd like, but if a recruit can't see through that nonsense, he probably wouldn't qualify academically for Duke anyway. If you're concerned about this possibility, that's your prerogative, but you shouldn't be.

Yeah, I'm just not seeing the angle for negative impact on recruiting. I mean, the only negative I can see is that some may say "well, Coach K might not be around by the time you get there" to some of the class of 2018 and 2019 guys. But that has nothing to do with the performance of the team while Coach K is out. In fact, I'd argue the opposite: if the team comes together and performs great under Coach Capel, that would WEAKEN the argument against coming to Duke for the 2018 and 2019 recruits. Because Coach K can say "look, even if I'm gone, Capel is a great coach."

LasVegas
01-04-2017, 01:20 PM
Wait, so the narrative would be to negatively recruit against Coach K? Like, "hey 5-star recruit, you don't want to go to Duke because that Coach K doesn't know how to use top talent" or "Coach K isn't even the best coach on the staff over in Durham"? This is the same Coach K that won a natty 18mo ago with more OADs in starting roles than returning players, no?

Um, call me crazy but this doesn't pass the smell test for me. Of course, opposing coaches are welcome to use whatever illogical narratives they'd like, but if a recruit can't see through that nonsense, he probably wouldn't qualify academically for Duke anyway. If you're concerned about this possibility, that's your prerogative, but you shouldn't be.

I don't think it's as farfetched as some of you. I mean it would only take one teenager to believe it and your chances of a title could decrease drastically. Regardless, this probably never becomes an issue and Duke would be fine either way. Just some food for thought.

And great point on the "look, even if I'm gone, Capel is a great coach", CDu. That's a heck of a nice counter to the hypothetical narrative that's started all of this.

Indoor66
01-04-2017, 01:33 PM
At the rate this thread is progressing, we will be planning funerals soon. :mad:

OldPhiKap
01-04-2017, 01:43 PM
Somewhat of a worry for me is that Capel really gets this team going and bolden/Giles start to blossom and get huge minutes. The narrative could easily turn on Duke and be "Well, the only reason the freshman got the playing time they deserved is because of Capel." That narrative could potentially hurt recruiting top talent. I don't think it will be an issue and I would be ecstatic if Capel got the team firing on all cylinders, but it's still something to look for.

I worry about things. Lots of things. Constantly. In many ways, I truly am a professional worrier. My job is, in part, to consider all potential outcomes and possibilities and worry about how to address them. I seriously have woken up almost every night for the last twenty-five years, worrying about some problem or another. Or worried that I had not worried about a potential outcome enough. Sometimes I worry about how much I worry about things. Which gets me worried.

This, I'm not worried.

WVDUKEFAN
01-04-2017, 01:43 PM
Nothing against Coach Capel - he's done an awesome job as an assistant and as a recruiter. I'm not 100 percent certain he will be the successor to Coach K. I'm a big fan of Mike Brey, who has really proven himself at Notre Dame.

flyingdutchdevil
01-04-2017, 01:52 PM
Nothing against Coach Capel - he's done an awesome job as an assistant and as a recruiter. I'm not 100 percent certain he will be the successor to Coach K. I'm a big fan of Mike Brey, who has really proven himself at Notre Dame.

A lot of people are. But he's 57 years old (turning 58 in March). Assume Coach K stays 2.5 years, Brey will be 60. Better to have a young coach with lots of potential than a proven coach with less than a decade of coaching left.

If Brey were in his 40s, he's a no brainer for successor.

LasVegas
01-04-2017, 01:52 PM
I worry about things. Lots of things. Constantly. In many ways, I truly am a professional worrier. My job is, in part, to consider all potential outcomes and possibilities and worry about how to address them. I seriously have woken up almost every night for the last twenty-five years, worrying about some problem or another. Or worried that I had not worried about a potential outcome enough. Sometimes I worry about how much I worry about things. Which gets me worried.

This, I'm not worried.

Well, now I'm worried about your worrying. I haven't worried this much since almost being caught with natty ice in the dorms years ago. Ahhh, natty ice. So smooth you won't remember the night.

WVDUKEFAN
01-04-2017, 02:05 PM
A lot of people are. But he's 57 years old (turning 58 in March). Assume Coach K stays 2.5 years, Brey will be 60. Better to have a young coach with lots of potential than a proven coach with less than a decade of coaching left.

If Brey were in his 40s, he's a no brainer for successor.

You're right about Brey's age. I guess I need a reality check. It doesn't matter who the successor is, because you can't replace a legend.

CDu
01-04-2017, 02:07 PM
A lot of people are. But he's 57 years old (turning 58 in March). Assume Coach K stays 2.5 years, Brey will be 60. Better to have a young coach with lots of potential than a proven coach with less than a decade of coaching left.

If Brey were in his 40s, he's a no brainer for successor.

The other thing about Brey is that he hasn't been an elite recruiter for a while now. He had the occasional top-tier recruit earlier in his career, but for the most part he's excelled recently as a system coach with veteran players. I don't know that as a 60-year-old he's best-suited to step into Coach K's shoes. The expectations for recruiting here are far different than the expectations at Notre Dame. Also, Brey hasn't lived in Durham in over 20 years, and is not a Duke alum. So there is no guarantee he'd want to uproot and move back. Even for the Duke job.

Honestly, Capel seems to make the most sense. He's apparently a phenomenal recruiter. He's a Duke grad. His family is in NC and loves the area. And he has generally been a good head coach. He was fantastic at VCU. He was very good early in his career at OU. His career record is 161-92 (63.6% winning percentage). His last two years at OU went very poorly, but he'd be in a MUCH better position at Duke than he was at OU following Sampson, both in terms of program stature and resources. I think he'd do great as the head coach. And he is just 41, which means that if he does work out he'd have at least 20-25 years of coaching (if not more) ahead of him. Unlike Brey, who would likely have only 10 or so years left in the tank

Wander
01-04-2017, 02:07 PM
If Brey were in his 40s, he's a no brainer for successor.

So we can never get another defensive stop, ever? No thanks.

dukelifer
01-04-2017, 02:45 PM
The other thing about Brey is that he hasn't been an elite recruiter for a while now. He had the occasional top-tier recruit earlier in his career, but for the most part he's excelled recently as a system coach with veteran players. I don't know that as a 60-year-old he's best-suited to step into Coach K's shoes. The expectations for recruiting here are far different than the expectations at Notre Dame. Also, Brey hasn't lived in Durham in over 20 years, and is not a Duke alum. So there is no guarantee he'd want to uproot and move back. Even for the Duke job.

Honestly, Capel seems to make the most sense. He's apparently a phenomenal recruiter. He's a Duke grad. His family is in NC and loves the area. And he has generally been a good head coach. He was fantastic at VCU. He was very good early in his career at OU. His career record is 161-92 (63.6% winning percentage). His last two years at OU went very poorly, but he'd be in a MUCH better position at Duke than he was at OU following Sampson, both in terms of program stature and resources. I think he'd do great as the head coach. And he is just 41, which means that if he does work out he'd have at least 20-25 years of coaching (if not more) ahead of him. Unlike Brey, who would likely have only 10 or so years left in the tank

I agree that Capel makes the most sense. He has been K's right hand man during , knows the system and he and his family have very strong Duke ties. His teams will need to perform to last 25 years- but hard to imagine a better fit with that kind of time runway.

OldPhiKap
01-04-2017, 02:51 PM
Well, now I'm worried about your worrying. I haven't worried this much since almost being caught with natty ice in the dorms years ago. Ahhh, natty ice. So smooth you won't remember the night.

Don't worry about my worrying, because that would be one more thing for me to fret.

Natty ice, sooooooo nice. Just don't post that on the "Ymm, beer" thread. Or tell them I said that!

Cheers, OPK

luvdahops
01-04-2017, 03:47 PM
I agree that Capel makes the most sense. He has been K's right hand man during , knows the system and he and his family have very strong Duke ties. His teams will need to perform to last 25 years- but hard to imagine a better fit with that kind of time runway.

I agree as well, and would add that the adversity Capel experienced as a player (95 season, then fans getting on him early in his senior year) and as a head coach (last 2 years at OU) arguably give him a depth of perspective that very few coaches his age possess. He would take nothing for granted.

Tripping William
01-04-2017, 03:52 PM
Don't worry about my worrying, because that would be one more thing for me to fret.

Natty ice, sooooooo nice. Just don't post that on the "Ymm, beer" thread. Or tell them I said that!

Cheers, OPK

dd, fuse, mattman and I have our eyes on you. And ricks68 might, too.

OldPhiKap
01-04-2017, 03:56 PM
dd, fuse, mattman and I have our eyes on you. And ricks68 might, too.

I was broke and in college. "Craft beer" was Sam Adams, and you couldn't get it outside of New England. You needed an 18-wheeler and a black Trans-Am to get Coors east of the Mississippi. Those were dark days, my friend.

Tripping William
01-04-2017, 04:02 PM
I was broke and in college. "Craft beer" was Sam Adams, and you couldn't get it outside of New England. You needed an 18-wheeler and a black Trans-Am to get Coors east of the Mississippi. Those were dark days, my friend.

Stay thirsty, and all that.

OldPhiKap
01-04-2017, 04:03 PM
Stay thirsty, and all that.

In those days, "The Most Interesting Man in the World" was only "The Mildly Amusing Guy From Accounting"

CrazyNotCrazie
01-04-2017, 04:07 PM
In those days, "The Most Interesting Man in the World" was only "The Mildly Amusing Guy From Accounting"

And now he is a doppelganger for the greatest swimmer ever

BandAlum83
01-04-2017, 04:09 PM
I agree - if the week it was announced that Coach K was not coaching Tom Butters had called another press conference to announce who was getting credit for wins and losses for the rest of the year, I don't think any would have cared. It only became an issue after the fact. I was a student at the time and that ranked very low on my list of concerns regarding the team, even before the implosion began.

I do very clearly remember thinking that Gaudet was the right man for the job at the time, and though he was far from perfect and his anxiety on the bench didn't help, the team was ill-equipped to handle the change and it ended up showing on the court. Despite the team having three future D1 head coaches (Wojo, Collins and Capel) I don't think it had the type of leadership to carry it through the challenges it faced. Plus at the time I believe Coach K completely removed himself from all basketball-related activities, while I'm guessing this year he will be involved.

I wonder if what happened that year in any way made these kids on the team more likely to want to coach.

How unusual to have 3 future D1 coaches on one team.

FadedTackyShirt
01-04-2017, 04:10 PM
I agree as well, and would add that the adversity Capel experienced as a player (95 season, then fans getting on him early in his senior year) and as a head coach (last 2 years at OU) arguably give him a depth of perspective that very few coaches his age possess. He would take nothing for granted.

Think it's a huge opportunity for Capel and Duke. Has a chance to stabilize a talented team at a precarious time. Can solidify his future with a solid coaching stint. Expect him to pull out all the stops.

Steven43
01-04-2017, 04:16 PM
I agree that Capel makes the most sense. He has been K's right hand man during , knows the system and he and his family have very strong Duke ties. His teams will need to perform to last 25 years- but hard to imagine a better fit with that kind of time runway.Strongly disagree. There is no 'system' for Capel to imitate. Coach Michael Krzyzewski is the system. Just because Capel played under him and has now coached under him does not mean he should be hired as the next coach at Duke.

The vast majority of people who successfully run a business or team will tell you nepotism is a very bad thing as a general rule. Duke needs to be brave and smart by going out and getting a young, hungry coach with a brilliant basketball mind and a completely fresh perspective. One who won't be constrained by or beholden to any real or perceived ties to Coach K.

Nothing against the guy, but Jeff Capel would be the wrong choice. He might end up being a good coach one day and I wish him well, but I hope it is somewhere else.

BandAlum83
01-04-2017, 04:17 PM
Wait, so the narrative would be to negatively recruit against Coach K? Like, "hey 5-star recruit, you don't want to go to Duke because that Coach K doesn't know how to use top talent" or "Coach K isn't even the best coach on the staff over in Durham"? This is the same Coach K that won a natty 18mo ago with more OADs in starting roles than returning players, no?

Um, call me crazy but this doesn't pass the smell test for me. Of course, opposing coaches are welcome to use whatever illogical narratives they'd like, but if a recruit can't see through that nonsense, he probably wouldn't qualify academically for Duke anyway. If you're concerned about this possibility, that's your prerogative, but you shouldn't be.

Sporks to you!

(I'm such an east coast elitist!)

devildeac
01-04-2017, 04:20 PM
I was broke and in college. "Craft beer" was Sam Adams, and you couldn't get it outside of New England. You needed an 18-wheeler and a black Trans-Am to get Coors east of the Mississippi. Those were dark days, my friend.


"These were the Dark Ages. Ages darker the anyone had ever expected."

rsvman
01-04-2017, 04:27 PM
All this time I thought Brad Stevens was the heir apparent!?!? Wuz I wrong?

rasputin
01-04-2017, 04:29 PM
Strongly disagree. There is no 'system' for Capel to imitate. Coach Michael Krzyzewski is the system. Just because Capel played under him and has now coached under him does not mean he should be hired as the next coach at Duke.

The vast majority of people who successfully run a business or team will tell you nepotism is a very bad thing as a general rule. Duke needs to be brave and smart by going out and getting a young, hungry coach with a brilliant basketball mind and a completely fresh perspective. One who won't be constrained by or beholden to any real or perceived ties to Coach K.

Nothing against the guy, but Jeff Capel would be the wrong choice. He might end up being a good coach one day and I wish him well, but I hope it is somewhere else.

I always bristle when the talking heads mention that all of the Duke assistants played at Duke, etc., etc., and it is assumed that that is a prerequisite for getting the head coaching job someday. That kind of thinking (along with other events) led to the Cheaters hiring coach D'Oh.

Steven43
01-04-2017, 04:31 PM
All this time I thought Brad Stevens was the heir apparent!?!? Wuz I wrong?

I know you're probably being sarcastic, but I hope you are correct about Brad Stevens, though I know it's very unlikely.

devildeac
01-04-2017, 04:33 PM
I always bristle when the talking heads mention that all of the Duke assistants played at Duke, etc., etc., and it is assumed that that is a prerequisite for getting the head coaching job someday. That kind of thinking (along with other events) led to the Cheaters hiring coach D'Oh.

I personally thought this was a brilliant hire. ;)