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duketaylor
12-17-2016, 06:04 PM
Or incorporated elsewhere?

UK by 10, good start.

Troublemaker
12-17-2016, 06:15 PM
47-41 at the under 4 timeout.

Heels are actually hanging tough despite foul trouble to their bigs. UK probably should be up by more with how hot Monk has been.

lotusland
12-17-2016, 06:17 PM
Better here than in the not gonna jinx it thread. Pulling for the meteor to hit right after the Cheats lose.

Doria
12-17-2016, 06:19 PM
Hmm, why wait? Oh, I see, squeezing in a last Carolina loss before the meteor. Nice!

ETA: Good grief, I just saw Roy's outfit... ugh. Some things you can't unsee.

Furniture
12-17-2016, 06:22 PM
That Bradley kid is big!
What was the deal with Roy trying to take out his own bench with his jacket?
The old jacket chuck?

OldPhiKap
12-17-2016, 06:24 PM
That Bradley kid is big!
What was the deal with Roy trying to take out his own bench with his jacket?
The old jacket chuck?

"One Chuck Huck"

brevity
12-17-2016, 06:26 PM
No UK/unccheaters thread?

Yes. Yearly Question (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?39031)


Or incorporated elsewhere?

Yes. This Week in the ACC 12/12-12/18 (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?39030)


UK by 10, good start.

Well... The "I'm not going to jinx it" thread v3.0 (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?38809)

Doria
12-17-2016, 06:30 PM
That Bradley kid is big!
What was the deal with Roy trying to take out his own bench with his jacket?
The old jacket chuck?

Yeah, that jacket could take out the eastern seaboard.

This game is just this (http://alienvspredator.wikia.com/wiki/File:Alien_vs_predator.gif).

TKG
12-17-2016, 06:30 PM
If UK wins do they become the most complete team in the country?

MartyClark
12-17-2016, 06:35 PM
It's a great college game. Malik Monk had an unbelievable first half.

No moral ambiguity here, I'm pulling for Kentucky. Regardless of who wins, it is a really entertaining game.

YmoBeThere
12-17-2016, 06:49 PM
it is a really entertaining game.

Yes, the suspense is killing me. When will the meteor hit?

OldPhiKap
12-17-2016, 06:52 PM
Yes, the suspense is killing me. When will the meteor hit?

If the meteor is gonna hit, I hope the damage stays south of Aria and City Center.

wavedukefan70s
12-17-2016, 06:55 PM
Ha hard to watch .rooting for both to lose.

OldPhiKap
12-17-2016, 06:58 PM
Our games with Carolina this year may be epic.

YmoBeThere
12-17-2016, 07:16 PM
Our games with Carolina this year may be epic.

Epic beatdowns?

Troublemaker
12-17-2016, 07:34 PM
Credit where due. This game was amazing.

YmoBeThere
12-17-2016, 07:35 PM
Credit where due. This game was amazing.

Yes, true. It is just a shame someone had to win.

gam7
12-17-2016, 07:36 PM
Not bad for a JV game.

CameronBlue
12-17-2016, 07:45 PM
Not bad for a JV game.

Jenkins for the TITLE!!! Sorry...flash back.

WiJoe
12-17-2016, 07:46 PM
ky: regular-season cheater champions

DUKIECB
12-17-2016, 07:47 PM
Once again Roy doesn't call timeout with the ball with 10 sounds to go. He had two in his pocket. He's the opposing teams best weapon, I swear. GTHC

Ima Facultiwyfe
12-17-2016, 07:48 PM
Goose Givens +1= Malik Monk
Love, Ima

Devilwin
12-17-2016, 07:54 PM
Too bad they couldn't both lose...:rolleyes:

jipops
12-17-2016, 07:54 PM
Is it fair to say both teams have concerns on defense?

BullBlue
12-17-2016, 07:56 PM
Calipari cracks me up. After the game, the TV crew is mic-ing up Monk for post game comments. Calipari is about 8 or 10 feet away, he looks over and sees what is happening, so he walks over and puts his arm around Monk and then proceeds to answer the first 4 or 5 questions. Oh well, Monk only scored what, 47? Let me talk about it first though.

Can't imagine K doing that.

OldPhiKap
12-17-2016, 08:03 PM
Once again Roy doesn't call timeout with the ball with 10 sounds to go. He had two in his pocket. He's the opposing teams best weapon, I swear. GTHC

He did call timeout on the inbounds with 1.8 or whatever it was.

jbay201
12-17-2016, 08:08 PM
He did call timeout on the inbounds with 1.8 or whatever it was.

should have been a walk on hicks...team is utterly clueless on how to use them!

neither team plays defense which will hurt them come tournament time

OldPhiKap
12-17-2016, 08:11 PM
I can usually find a lot of fault with Huck, but not really tonight. Classic game, last team with a good shot won. Maybe want to know more about what was drawn up on that inbound with 1.6, clearly a cross-court pass was not the design.

norduck
12-17-2016, 08:11 PM
He did call timeout on the inbounds with 1.8 or whatever it was.

It's all about preparing for March.

DukieInKansas
12-17-2016, 08:32 PM
I think I am now on Santa's naughty list. I actually kind of enjoyed the heels finally taking the lead at 1:46 or so and then losing it with under 2 left and then their final shot gets stuck between the backboard and the rim. :D

UrinalCake
12-17-2016, 08:35 PM
I didn't get to watch the game but this looks like a pretty bad outcome from our perspective, other than the fact that UNC lost the game. Both teams scored like crazy and the stars all showed up - Monk, Fox, Berry, Jackson all put up big numbers. It came down to the last possession, so even the losing team can take something away from the game. I guess the positives are the presumably terrible defense and that none of the role players have stepped it up (though it looks like Luke Maye had a good game). So if you can contain one of either team's stars then you'd feel pretty comfortable relying on the other players to beat you. Both of these teams looks pretty good though.

Tripping William
12-17-2016, 08:39 PM
Both of these teams looks pretty good though.

Not defensively.

jipops
12-17-2016, 08:50 PM
The cheats took a bit of a dive in their defense rating on kenpom after this game. Went from 7 (I think) to now 16. Will be interesting to see how that number continues to play out. I didn't watch this game of hired mercenaries. But the percentages suggest good offense with little resistance.

47 for Monk is quite a president for UK freshmen.

OldPhiKap
12-17-2016, 08:52 PM
The cheats took a bit of a dive in their defense rating on kenpom after this game. Went from 7 (I think) to now 16. Will be interesting to see how that number continues to play out. I didn't watch this game of hired mercenaries. But the percentages suggest good offense with little resistance.

47 for Monk is quite a president for UK freshmen.

Very presidential.

Dude was incredible. Not sure what or who would have stopped him tonight.

jipops
12-17-2016, 08:55 PM
Very presidential.

Dude was incredible. Not sure what or who would have stopped him tonight.

Do you think he would have dropped that many on Matt Jones? Maybe 37 instead?

Indoor66
12-17-2016, 08:57 PM
Do you think he would have dropped that many on Matt Jones? Maybe 37 instead?

Well, with 37 they lose....

Saratoga2
12-17-2016, 09:03 PM
I didn't get to watch the game but this looks like a pretty bad outcome from our perspective, other than the fact that UNC lost the game. Both teams scored like crazy and the stars all showed up - Monk, Fox, Berry, Jackson all put up big numbers. It came down to the last possession, so even the losing team can take something away from the game. I guess the positives are the presumably terrible defense and that none of the role players have stepped it up (though it looks like Luke Maye had a good game). So if you can contain one of either team's stars then you'd feel pretty comfortable relying on the other players to beat you. Both of these teams looks pretty good though.

I watched a fair amount of the game. Monk was hot but he also about 6'5" quick with great athleticism and can get his shot. Very hard for any player to shut him down or even slow him down. Kentucky's center, I believe the name is Abadayo, is physical and makes space for his shot by banging inside. It would take someone large and athletic to keep him off the basket. Bolden? Kentucky also has other scorers so you can't just guard Monk.

I thought Jackson played a very good game for UNC. He has a lot of aspects to his game and was also hot from outside tonight. Both these teams would give anyone trouble.

Newton_14
12-17-2016, 09:06 PM
Is it fair to say both teams have concerns on defense?

Yes. Everyone will rave about the offenses, but the defense of both teams left a lot to be desired. It was oh so easy to get to the rim for easy buckets. Lots of layups and dunks. The Monk kid got basically any shot he wanted. 47 points. Whew. That's filling it up. I thought the UK point guard played really well also. Ol Roy had two Jrs and a Sr that should be in the NBA and it wasn't enough to take down the Kentucky Frosh. Very entertaining game to watch though. Especially the Ol Roy meltdown and the Jenkins like dagger 3 from Monk that put the Cheats away for good! Loved it!

Dukehky
12-17-2016, 09:13 PM
There's going to be a #5 in a similar shade of blue that gives the heels similar nightmares. Except he's going to do it twice...

jipops
12-17-2016, 09:17 PM
Yes. Everyone will rave about the offenses, but the defense of both teams left a lot to be desired. It was oh so easy to get to the rim for easy buckets. Lots of layups and dunks. The Monk kid got basically any shot he wanted. 47 points. Whew. That's filling it up. I thought the UK point guard played really well also. Ol Roy had two Jrs and a Sr that should be in the NBA and it wasn't enough to take down the Kentucky Frosh. Very entertaining game to watch though. Especially the Ol Roy meltdown and the Jenkins like dagger 3 from Monk that put the Cheats away for good! Loved it!

Apparently Monk isn't sure there was any D either.

https://twitter.com/alexforknertcp/status/810287460399935488

JasonEvans
12-17-2016, 09:25 PM
I think both teams had an agreement to let the other score. There were more uncontested shots in that game...

Speaking of which, how do you let Monk take that final jumper? The entire universe knows he is going to take the shot -- he's been raining jumper on you all game long and he has scored half their points -- and Carolina just let him take an open 3... ridiculously bad D. Don't forget that Carolina leads by 2 there. I'd have much rather let him drive the lane there and see if the help D could stop him. Taking an open 3 was the one way to likely lose the game.

Oh, and on what planet is a double-teamed and contested shot by Hicks your best option at the end? Kentucky gets an open 3 for their hot leading scorer, Carolina's leading scorer (with 30+ points in the game) doesn't even touch the ball.

-Jason "coaching won that game, no question about it" Evans

Duke79UNLV77
12-17-2016, 09:51 PM
UNC losing, but big games from Jackson and Berry could be the best thing. If they lose those two, along with Hicks, Meeks, and Britt this year, next year could get ugly for them. Ole Roy's plan of getting top 20 recruits and having them all stay at least 3 years may be on its last year.

Dukehky
12-17-2016, 10:12 PM
UNC losing, but big games from Jackson and Berry could be the best thing. If they lose those two, along with Hicks, Meeks, and Britt this year, next year could get ugly for them. Ole Roy's plan of getting top 20 recruits and having them all stay at least 3 years may be on its last year.

I think Jackson has played well this year and has improved his stock to the point that he'll probably at least be drafted. I'm not sure there is really an NBA future for any of the underclassmen you mentioned there. I think Berry is better than Paige ever was (that dude is a bull dog, they were right to be excited about him, even though we had Tyus: I'm still pleased with Tyus, obviously) but he's barely 6 feet tall, isn't a blur like Lawson and can't really shoot). Hicks is built like an NBA 3 and has none of the skills required, and he's not like the 4's at his size who have had success (Faried, etc.).

Bradley is gone though. Or he should be. If he doesn't leave after this year, with all of his talent, and size (I think he's really good) and the fact that he's playing against 2nd units a lot means that he's going to be in positions to be successful, then I'm not sure how Roy ever convinces another 5 star to come to Chapel Hill. Bradley's stock is going to continue to rise, and if Roy doesn't get a young guy in the league soon, he's going to be untouchable by kids whose goal that is (nearly every 5 star recruit).


I know the grammar above isn't exactly stellar but I don't want to change it, and you can catch the drift.

Troublemaker
12-17-2016, 10:21 PM
I didn't get to watch the game but this looks like a pretty bad outcome from our perspective, other than the fact that UNC lost the game. Both teams scored like crazy and the stars all showed up - Monk, Fox, Berry, Jackson all put up big numbers. It came down to the last possession, so even the losing team can take something away from the game. I guess the positives are the presumably terrible defense and that none of the role players have stepped it up (though it looks like Luke Maye had a good game). So if you can contain one of either team's stars then you'd feel pretty comfortable relying on the other players to beat you. Both of these teams looks pretty good though.

I dunno. If I'm going to watch a UNC-Kentucky game and no meteor shows up, I'd like to be entertained. And that game was entertaining. Much prefer watching that than a 62-60 slugfest. In the process of being entertained, both teams looked really good, sure. But I was under no illusion that these two teams were bad this year, anyway. Since UNC lost, I don't really see a bad outcome here for Duke.

Troublemaker
12-17-2016, 10:27 PM
Do you think he would have dropped that many on Matt Jones? Maybe 37 instead?

Matt and Duke in general would've held Monk to fewer than 12 three-pt attempts (of which he made 8). That's sort of what we do consistently well on defense -- limit 3-pt attempts. And if our bigs are protecting the rim well, Monk would've needed to have a huge day from midrange to score 30.

dukelion
12-17-2016, 10:33 PM
Both teams are gonna be pretty good but both have pretty significant limitations to make a championship run.

Kentucky's depth in the post is pretty suspect. Outside of Adebayo the front court is pretty weak. Five star prospect Killeya-Jones didn't play against UCLA and only got a minute today. Their other three bigs (Gabriel, Willis and Humphries) combined for 9 pts and 12 rebs today. Even Adebayo isn't exactly Okafor out there. Plus they don't seem to have the rim protection they've had in the previous years. If one of their guards have an off night (and I'll note the depth there is pretty meh as well) then they'll be in a struggle.

Carolina seems to have a more balanced unit with Berry, Jackson and their trio of bigs but it's the quality of their starters that may limit them.

All in all, both teams could easily lose an early round tourney game if their stars don't show out.

Duke79UNLV77
12-17-2016, 10:46 PM
I think Jackson has played well this year and has improved his stock to the point that he'll probably at least be drafted. I'm not sure there is really an NBA future for any of the underclassmen you mentioned there. I think Berry is better than Paige ever was (that dude is a bull dog, they were right to be excited about him, even though we had Tyus: I'm still pleased with Tyus, obviously) but he's barely 6 feet tall, isn't a blur like Lawson and can't really shoot). Hicks is built like an NBA 3 and has none of the skills required, and he's not like the 4's at his size who have had success (Faried, etc.).

Bradley is gone though. Or he should be. If he doesn't leave after this year, with all of his talent, and size (I think he's really good) and the fact that he's playing against 2nd units a lot means that he's going to be in positions to be successful, then I'm not sure how Roy ever convinces another 5 star to come to Chapel Hill. Bradley's stock is going to continue to rise, and if Roy doesn't get a young guy in the league soon, he's going to be untouchable by kids whose goal that is (nearly every 5 star recruit).

Meeks, Britt, and Hicks are seniors. If you're right and they lose Jackson and Bradley, then they're looking at Berry setting up Luke Maye next year. Maybe, they'd volunteer to take their sanctions then.

BluDvlsN1
12-17-2016, 10:49 PM
Does Roy teach this as a close out on the 3.

Austin at unc 2012

6965

Kris Jenkins championship shot
6966

Malik Monk for the W.
https://twitter.com/BBallSociety_/status/810281975558836228

weezie
12-17-2016, 11:00 PM
He did call timeout on the inbounds with 1.8 or whatever it was.

He's the master, he is. Oh lordy dad gummits, how the natives must be tooth gnashing tonight...
The freude is shaden baby, jump on in...

smvalkyries
12-17-2016, 11:08 PM
#44 - Couldn't make it through the first half. Looked more like a track meet, or a phys ed test we had in Cameron in my day where the object was to score the most layups at alternate ends solo dribbling up and down Cameron for two minutes. Got to admit I never saw anything that fast or with less defense even on the playgrounds. I am glad someone liked that - to me it was unwatchable and both sides did lose.

jbay201
12-17-2016, 11:17 PM
both teams were exposed for their lack of defense and revealed some mismatches that will be there to exploit for good teams throughout the season

UK's three guard lineup is going to going to give whatever team they face a big advantage at the 3 like it today with jackson being guarded by briscoe who is almost half a foot shorter. Also Gabriel and whatever subs they have at 4 are not that good defensively or offensively.

Berry is not a good defender and struggles to guard athletic PGs like Fox today and even more importantly britt/williams/7th as the SG is a huge weakness both offensively and defensively with none of them able to slow down monk. Maye is a joke defensively and is getting more minutes than Bradley LOL!

it was hilarious to see roy get angry and get a technical foul, which ended up making a big difference in such a close game

PackMan97
12-17-2016, 11:41 PM
LOL! Suck it cheaters!

Nice to see their hearts ripped out and UK edging one more game ahead in the all-time wins category.

OldPhiKap
12-18-2016, 07:02 AM
LOL! Suck it cheaters!

Nice to see their hearts ripped out and UK edging one more game ahead in the all-time wins category.

X2.

I also noted that akenyucky did not guard the inbound passer with 1.8 to go. Figured they would have learned that one by now.

Indoor66
12-18-2016, 08:05 AM
X2.

I also noted that akenyucky did not guard the inbound passer with 1.8 to go. Figured they would have learned that one by now.

Cal thought about it and said "Look who I'm coaching against - no way!"

sagegrouse
12-18-2016, 08:49 AM
As an aside, Calipari looks to be aging faster than his contemporary coaches. His face is getting jowly (Rollie Massimino-style); he also seems to be limping -- hip problems, maybe.

On the other hand, K seems unchanged; Roy looks distinguished in his own way; Self is holding up well; Boeheim looks 70, but he looked 70 when he was playing at Syracuse in the 1960's; Pitino is a question mark, since he is made up like a statue in a wax museum.

richardjackson199
12-18-2016, 09:05 AM
Roy Meltdowns never get old. He threw his jacket at Woods, his own player.

Enjoy:

http://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2016/12/17/13995740/roy-williams-tosses-jacket-north-carolina-vs-kentucky

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gD1jSxtnuuE

Billy Dat
12-18-2016, 09:09 AM
#44 - Couldn't make it through the first half. Looked more like a track meet, or a phys ed test we had in Cameron in my day where the object was to score the most layups at alternate ends solo dribbling up and down Cameron for two minutes. Got to admit I never saw anything that fast or with less defense even on the playgrounds. I am glad someone liked that - to me it was unwatchable and both sides did lose.

Someone here. I'd be surprised if I see a more entertaining game all year. I thought it was awesome. There were less than 20 turnovers combined with all that scoring. Fantastic by my estimation.


I dunno. If I'm going to watch a UNC-Kentucky game and no meteor shows up, I'd like to be entertained. And that game was entertaining. Much prefer watching that than a 62-60 slugfest. In the process of being entertained, both teams looked really good, sure. But I was under no illusion that these two teams were bad this year, anyway. Since UNC lost, I don't really see a bad outcome here for Duke.

Yup


Both teams are gonna be pretty good but both have pretty significant limitations to make a championship run. All in all, both teams could easily lose an early round tourney game if their stars don't show out.

I think your closing statement is true for any team any year. As for the opening statement, I don't agree. I think both teams confirmed what I already suspected, they can both win it all. Who else in the country is prohibitively better than those two teams?


Speaking of which, how do you let Monk take that final jumper? The entire universe knows he is going to take the shot -- he's been raining jumper on you all game long and he has scored half their points -- and Carolina just let him take an open 3... ridiculously bad D. Don't forget that Carolina leads by 2 there. I'd have much rather let him drive the lane there and see if the help D could stop him. Taking an open 3 was the one way to likely lose the game.

Oh, and on what planet is a double-teamed and contested shot by Hicks your best option at the end? Kentucky gets an open 3 for their hot leading scorer, Carolina's leading scorer (with 30+ points in the game) doesn't even touch the ball.

-Jason "coaching won that game, no question about it" Evans

I agree with this. Between losing Monk on that final shot, the horrendous Berry drive too early in the shot clock before the Monk game winner, the Hicks play, the god awful cross court pass to Jackson and on and on.

Finally, Monk was the start of stars but Fox is an amazing player. Man, that kid is a nightmare to deal with. The Kentucky backcourt is insane. Props to the Heels for playing well enough to win, Berry was impressive back from injury and Jackson is a gamer. Bradley is impressive, they are tough. It will be a nice home and home with them later this winter.

Troublemaker
12-18-2016, 09:28 AM
I think both teams confirmed what I already suspected, they can both win it all. Who else in the country is prohibitively better than those two teams?

wrt Kentucky this season, they are roughly in the position of Duke 2015 (heavy reliance on a special freshman class), and Duke this season is roughly in the position of Kentucky 2015 (great mixture of vets and a great freshman class). And we all know how that worked out in the end.

So yeah, UK should absolutely be considered a major championship contender. And the high school class of 2016 in general may be the GOAT high school class.




DJ Almonds ‏@DJAlmonds (https://twitter.com/DJAlmonds) 15h15 hours ago (https://twitter.com/DJAlmonds/status/810265546340106240)
I think the 2016 class as a whole is the best we have seen. Your thoughts? @PaulBiancardi (https://twitter.com/PaulBiancardi)


Paul Biancardi ‏@PaulBiancardi (https://twitter.com/PaulBiancardi) 14h14 hours ago (https://twitter.com/PaulBiancardi/status/810287856635744256)
Agree. Best in a decade. We been telling folks that for a while @ESPNRNHoops (https://twitter.com/ESPNRNHoops)

DJ Almonds ‏@DJAlmonds (https://twitter.com/DJAlmonds) 14h14 hours ago (https://twitter.com/DJAlmonds/status/810288313676529664)
@PaulBiancardi (https://twitter.com/PaulBiancardi) @ESPNRNHoops (https://twitter.com/ESPNRNHoops) All the guys are making immediate impacts. Even kids who weren't highly ranked like Kamar @ Butler #SpecialClass (https://twitter.com/hashtag/SpecialClass?src=hash)


Paul Biancardi ‏@PaulBiancardi (https://twitter.com/PaulBiancardi) 13h13 hours ago (https://twitter.com/PaulBiancardi/status/810289706961436672)
Paul Biancardi Retweeted DJ Almonds
Oh yea it's not just the ranked guys but many freshmen have played well so far this year.

tux
12-18-2016, 10:07 AM
Someone here. I'd be surprised if I see a more entertaining game all year. I thought it was awesome. There were less than 20 turnovers combined with all that scoring. Fantastic by my estimation.



Yup



I think your closing statement is true for any team any year. As for the opening statement, I don't agree. I think both teams confirmed what I already suspected, they can both win it all. Who else in the country is prohibitively better than those two teams?



I agree with this. Between losing Monk on that final shot, the horrendous Berry drive too early in the shot clock before the Monk game winner, the Hicks play, the god awful cross court pass to Jackson and on and on.

Finally, Monk was the start of stars but Fox is an amazing player. Man, that kid is a nightmare to deal with. The Kentucky backcourt is insane. Props to the Heels for playing well enough to win, Berry was impressive back from injury and Jackson is a gamer. Bradley is impressive, they are tough. It will be a nice home and home with them later this winter.

That was a great game. I thought both teams, for the most part, looked really athletic. They played at such a fast pace, it would be easy to say that the D was terrible. And, obviously, there were several notable breakdowns. But I would be very hesitant to think that either of those teams can't defend. I see that as a bit of wishful thinking. Both teams have size and also considerable speed. I actually think UNC will end up being the more dangerous team, mainly due to more balance (both in terms of skill sets and also experience). Bradley can contribute meaningful minutes for them, and Maye is better than I thought he'd be. I actually wish Duke would (more often) run a secondary break like that -- our defense seems to feed off our offense and we have the scorers to punish folks for not getting their defense organized fast enough in transition...

Bob Green
12-18-2016, 10:33 AM
Bradley is impressive....

I'm not feeling the love for Bradley. Perhaps he will develop into an impressive player during conference play but he scored eight points yesterday on 1-5 FGs and 6-6 FTs yesterday. His most impressive play was the missed dunked. He also had three PFs in 15 minutes of action.

For the time being, I'm not drinking the kool-aid nor am I dismissing him. The jury is still out.

weezie
12-18-2016, 11:08 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gD1jSxtnuuE

Hubert looks like he's suppressing a "what the what" giggle...

DoubleDuke Dad
12-18-2016, 11:14 AM
It looks like Calipari took one from Coach K’s playbook from the 2010 championship. With a 2 point lead and 2+ seconds to go, he had the person shooting fouls try to deliberately miss the last foul shot.

Also speaking about repeating history, it seemed like they had the refs from the 1972 Olympics officiating this game. How could UNC get so many plays with so little time on the clock? With 0.7 seconds on the clock, how is it possible to catch and shoot the final shot before the time expired?

uh_no
12-18-2016, 11:37 AM
It looks like Calipari took one from Coach K’s playbook from the 2010 championship. With a 2 point lead and 2+ seconds to go, he had the person shooting fouls try to deliberately miss the last foul shot.

Also speaking about repeating history, it seemed like they had the refs from the 1972 Olympics officiating this game. How could UNC get so many plays with so little time on the clock? With 0.7 seconds on the clock, how is it possible to catch and shoot the final shot before the time expired?

.7 is longer than you'd intuitively think.

uh_no
12-18-2016, 11:39 AM
Roy Meltdowns never get old. He threw his jacket at Woods, his own player.

Enjoy:

http://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2016/12/17/13995740/roy-williams-tosses-jacket-north-carolina-vs-kentucky

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gD1jSxtnuuE

to be fair to roy, it looks like he was aiming for the empty seats and the jacket drifted on him a little bit....too much snap of the wrist put a bit of side spin on the jacket, caused it to sail wide. Definite E-0

OldPhiKap
12-18-2016, 11:49 AM
to be fair to roy, it looks like he was aiming for the empty seats and the jacket drifted on him a little bit...too much snap of the wrist put a bit of side spin on the jacket, caused it to sail wide. Definite E-0

They don't make friggin' sports jackets like they friggin' used to.

niveklaen
12-18-2016, 12:14 PM
I think unc was lucky to be in this. May hit 2 3's, before this game he had hit 1 all year. With out those 3's the game would have gotten away from them.

sagegrouse
12-18-2016, 12:16 PM
I'm not feeling the love for Bradley. Perhaps he will develop into an impressive player during conference play but he scored eight points yesterday on 1-5 FGs and 6-6 FTs yesterday. His most impressive play was the missed dunked. He also had three PFs in 15 minutes of action.

For the time being, I'm not drinking the kool-aid nor am I dismissing him. The jury is still out.

I agree. I think the situation is that, for now, he's a better NBA prospect than a college player.

uh_no
12-18-2016, 12:37 PM
They don't make friggin' sports jackets like they friggin' used to.

or he should have tossed his spare jacket instead of his strike jacket. much less hook.

BluDvlsN1
12-18-2016, 12:59 PM
Anecdote

Thought you might enjoy this, it was just at the begining of halftime of unc v kentucky.

Some entertainment came center court, and before they began their act, it was announced,
Let's take a pole!

The announcer proceeded to say,
"Who hates Duke the most",
Kentucky fans let's hear it
Then unc fans, let's hear it
Pretty raucous.

Vitriol was in the air, compliments and praise
come in so many forms, even if backhanded.
I had a great laugh at it.

And the note;

While not technically perfect by any means it was an exciting game to watch the cheats lose.

My take away on the cheats is,
Hicks is prone to lazy fouls and can be exposed.
While nc likes to run, limits were apparent for Meeks, he quits mentally when tired,
the consistent fast paced game showed him lacking.
I don't think I've seen that since he lost the weight.
Was it travel/Las Vegas related, or can he been run out of the game?

Jackson was the real deal, but he must be defended intently.
What was apparent there is, what he can do if there is not
a significant defense focused on him.

Our guards are terrific, I don't believe nc has the answer for them, nor Tatum.
I'm not saying it will be easy, those games are always epic,
but I love our team makeup, and depth.

On Kentucky, Well you all saw Monk, similar response as to Jackson,
Monk is great and cannot be left alone, but he's not going to drop that
many every game,(well maybe some in the SEC),
but Kentucky won'r be tested much till march.
How tournament ready will they be?

My take, they're both playing for second, among a host of others.
Now we just have to go do it, one game at a time and build on it!

There are so many really good teams out there we can’t look past any team.

I saw Baylor in Waco last month against Florida Gulf Coast, FGCU
gave Baylor all they wanted.
Davidson and Tennessee both gave nc fits at home,
way too many examples to cite here.
Parity is in play.

I know I'm stating the obvious here,

It will be fun to watch the remainder of the season,
we have the make up of something very very special!

smvalkyries
12-18-2016, 01:48 PM
I really find it hard to believe that this is what people like. I admit it is pretty easy to minimize turn overs when playing solo. You also tend to have high shooting percentages on uncontested layups and even wide open 3's. I guess this may be where the sport I once loved is heading. My question why put 5 players per team on the court at a time- Just letting one play at a time would lead to even fewer turnovers, fouls and even higher shooting percentages not to mention even less contact if possible. You certainly could save money on coach's salaries and maybe do away with them altogether? Not real good for Duke fans as it negates our advantages in coaching, teamwork and player intellects but I guess every "advance" has its costs.

Indoor66
12-18-2016, 01:49 PM
to be fair to roy, it looks like he was aiming for the empty seats and the jacket drifted on him a little bit...too much snap of the wrist put a bit of side spin on the jacket, caused it to sail wide. Definite E-0

Kinds like a wedge shotbwith a cross wind.

uh_no
12-18-2016, 02:41 PM
Kinds like a wedge shotbwith a cross wind.

hell, I don't even need a cross wind to make my shots do that!

MartyClark
12-18-2016, 03:14 PM
A Carolina based article says the only person to score more than 47 points against Carolina was Dick Groat in 1952. Assuming that is accurate, it is pretty amazing.

BluDvlsN1
12-18-2016, 03:24 PM
A Carolina based article says the only person to score more than 47 points against Carolina was Dick Groat in 1952. Assuming that is accurate, it is pretty amazing.


Nice find, thanks, Dick was the same age as my oldest brother and sister, my dad was a huge Pirates fan.

He was a great athlete, when I started playing ball, I remember his name coming up often.
In hindsight, an introduction of sorts.

OZ
12-18-2016, 03:56 PM
Nice find, thanks, Dick was the same age as my oldest brother and sister, my dad was a huge Pirates fan.

He was a great athlete, when I started playing ball, I remember his name coming up often.
In hindsight, an introduction of sorts.

Groat scored 48 points...

News and Observer: "That was Duke's Dick Groat, who scored 48 points in a game in Cameron Indoor Stadium in 1952. Sixty-four years have passed without anyone surpassing Groat's total against the Tar Heels, but Monk came as close as anybody ever has."

Olympic Fan
12-18-2016, 10:26 PM
Groat scored 48 points...

News and Observer: "That was Duke's Dick Groat, who scored 48 points in a game in Cameron Indoor Stadium in 1952. Sixty-four years have passed without anyone surpassing Groat's total against the Tar Heels, but Monk came as close as anybody ever has."

Just to fill out the story ...

It was Dick Groat's last home game his senior year against a pretty mediocre UNC team.

The start of the game was delayed almost half an hour -- it turns out Groat's parents had driven down from Pennsylvania to see the game and when he was getting out of his car in the parking lot, his father slipped and injured his knee. The start of the game was delayed so that Groat's Dad could get checked out at Duke Hospital.

Groat played well for the game's first 30 minutes. Games were played in 10-minute quarters in those days and after three quarters. Groat had 26 points. He scored 22 in the final quarter.

We don't have complete stats for the game. All we know for sure is that Groat made 19-of-34 field goals, hit 10-of-11 free throws, passed out seven assists, had no rebounds and committed four personal fouls. A young student-reporter named Bill Brill was keeping assists -- unofficially. Also in that game, Bernie Janicki had 31 rebounds -- still the school record.

Coach Hal Bradley pulled Groat with 15 seconds to play ... his sub was Fred Shabel, who became an assistant coach under Bubas (and coached the UConn team Duke beat in the 1964 NCAA regional finals).

Groat was carried off the court by the fans after Duke's 94-64 victory.

He played three more games at Duke (all in the Southern Conference Tournament) -- scoring 21 in a slowdown against Maryland; 31 in a thrilling win over West Virginia; and 27 in a tough loss to NC State.

brevity
12-18-2016, 11:17 PM
The start of the game was delayed almost half an hour -- it turns out Groat's parents had driven down from Pennsylvania to see the game and when he was getting out of his car in the parking lot, his father slipped and injured his knee. The start of the game was delayed so that Groat's Dad could get checked out at Duke Hospital.

College basketball was just so different before television took it over.

Now ESPN would dictate that the game start on time, require Dick Vitale to explain the circumstances repeatedly, send its sideline reporter to the parking lot to show where Mr. Groat fell, ask the Sport Science crew to re-enact the fall, have First Take debate whether Grayson Allen tripped him, and embed Adam Schefter at the hospital to track down medical charts, test results, and various other HIPAA violations.

Oh, and broadcast the game.

BD80
12-19-2016, 07:58 AM
Is it fair to say both teams have concerns on defense?

This is the true take-away. Both teams are ripe for an upset by a tough-minded well coached team throughout the tournament. It will be tough to get them to focus on D in practices, as both teams can somewhat justifiably feel that they can outscore any team they play.

This was a dream scenario for me. unc loses, both teams light it up on a national showcase game so that the kids and their entourages see visions of NBA money dancing in their heads.


There's going to be a #5 in a similar shade of blue that gives the heels similar nightmares. Except he's going to do it twice...

Maybe thrice.


Apparently Monk isn't sure there was any D either.

https://twitter.com/alexforknertcp/status/810287460399935488

Monk on what UNC was trying to do on him defensively: "I don't know what they was trying to do. I couldn't tell." Laughter



...

The announcer proceeded to say,
"Who hates Duke the most",
Kentucky fans let's hear it
Then unc fans, let's hear it
Pretty raucous.

Vitriol was in the air, compliments and praise
come in so many forms, even if backhanded.
...

Living rent free in the hearts and minds of every tar heel and wildcat. This is what it must feel like to be the greatest basketball program of all time.

75Crazie
12-19-2016, 08:24 AM
Games were played in 10-minute quarters in those days ...
When was that changed, and why? Even the women's college game has returned to quarters.

Spanarkel
12-19-2016, 09:06 AM
Goose Givens +1= Malik Monk
Love, Ima



Givens went off for 41 against Duke in 1978, and Monk put up 47 against UNCheat.

UrinalCake
12-19-2016, 10:23 AM
Sounds like the CHeats really missed Pinson, a good defender who could have at least slowed Monk down a little. Pinson doesn't give you anything on offense, but their shooting guard poo poo platter of Britt/Williams/Robinson didn't give them anything either.

If they can get him back soon, I think that will definitely help. Otherwise opposing teams' shooting guards are going to continue to light them up (hello, Luke Kennard!)

Olympic Fan
12-19-2016, 10:26 AM
When was that changed, and why? Even the women's college game has returned to quarters.

The change was after the 1953-54 season. The first ACC tournament was played in quarters ... after that, the NCAA went to two 20-minute halves.

BandAlum83
12-19-2016, 10:55 AM
I really find it hard to believe that this is what people like. I admit it is pretty easy to minimize turn overs when playing solo. You also tend to have high shooting percentages on uncontested layups and even wide open 3's. I guess this may be where the sport I once loved is heading. My question why put 5 players per team on the court at a time- Just letting one play at a time would lead to even fewer turnovers, fouls and even higher shooting percentages not to mention even less contact if possible. You certainly could save money on coach's salaries and maybe do away with them altogether? Not real good for Duke fans as it negates our advantages in coaching, teamwork and player intellects but I guess every "advance" has its costs.

If this were really true, then it certainly would be the way to play the game. We will see on the court. I'll say this, though, if it is the best way to play and win, the GOAT would have been playing this style.

Wheat/"/"/"
12-19-2016, 10:59 AM
Sounds like the CHeats really missed Pinson, a good defender who could have at least slowed Monk down a little. Pinson doesn't give you anything on offense, but their shooting guard poo poo platter of Britt/Williams/Robinson didn't give them anything either.

If they can get him back soon, I think that will definitely help. Otherwise opposing teams' shooting guards are going to continue to light them up (hello, Luke Kennard!)

I wouldn't let one exceptional career game from a potential NBA all star define the quality of play from UNC's 2g's.

Defensively, that spot has been a strength this season and should get even stronger as Pinson returns to the lineup. They have struggled with scoring the ball from the 2g spot for sure. Pinson's return will allow UNC more flexibility with the small ball line up offensively. Pinson is a scorer, not necessarily a shooter. He also shares the ball very well, creating offense for others.

Against faster, attacking and kick out shooting teams like KY/Duke, I'd continue to look for Roy to go big to start with Meeks,Hicks,Jackson,Pinson,Berry and try to establish the power game inside.

Then go small with something like Bradley, Pinson,Jackson,Williams,Berry to pressure and speed up the game.

Roy has lots of options to play varied styles at a high level depending on opponent. His bench of Britt, Maye and Robinson is sound if unspectacular.

Having that balance is the secret of his long term success.

JasonEvans
12-19-2016, 11:20 AM
Defensively, that spot has been a strength this season and should get even stronger as Pinson returns to the lineup. They have struggled with scoring the ball from the 2g spot for sure. Pinson's return will allow UNC more flexibility with the small ball line up offensively. Pinson is a scorer, not necessarily a shooter. He also shares the ball very well, creating offense for others.

I'm sorry, are we talking about the same Theo Pinson?

He's a very good defender, I agree about that, and has the length to bother passes as well as shots. But he has not shown himself to be any kind of scorer thus far in his college career. He averaged 4.5 ppg last season, just 9.7 points per 40 minutes played, which is really poor. He's not a shooter (you also noted that) as he can't even hit 30% of his threes and is less than a 65% career FT shooter. Yeah, he finishes fairly well at the rim, but the notion that this guy is any kind of scoring help to UNC seems a bit off to me unless something has changed dramatically about his game since last season.

I do agree that he is a nice passer and creator for others. He actually averaged 6.2 assists per 40 minutes last season, which is really strong for a wing player. He can certainly help in that way.

-Jason "but a scorer... I think not" Evans

MChambers
12-19-2016, 11:25 AM
Maybe Wheat meant that Pinson was a scorer, when compared to Britt?

Tom B.
12-19-2016, 11:27 AM
.7 is longer than you'd intuitively think.

Charlotte Smith (https://youtu.be/pFo3BM90hlU?t=4590) says hi.

PackMan97
12-19-2016, 11:32 AM
Charlotte Smith (https://youtu.be/pFo3BM90hlU?t=4590) says hi.

Nice that the clock didn't start for a heartbeat or two. That really helps.

uh_no
12-19-2016, 12:24 PM
Nice that the clock didn't start for a heartbeat or two. That really helps.

she still got it off in .7 even if you time it by hand.

How long is .7 seconds? Imagine the tempo of a march like stars and stripes forever. A beat and a half is about .7 seconds. I'm pretty sure I could get a shot off in that time without rushing too much.

If someone has some time over the holidays they should go out and hit the hoop...have someone toss them the ball and they shoot it. Have someone time it to see how long it takes.

UrinalCake
12-19-2016, 12:31 PM
Maybe Wheat meant that Pinson was a scorer, when compared to Britt?

Kenny Williams was 1-2 for 2 points in 34 minutes. Britt, Robinson, and Woods combined to to 0-4 for 0 points. So compared to their other options at SG, Pinson is a scoring machine!

Tom B.
12-19-2016, 01:30 PM
she still got it off in .7 even if you time it by hand.

How long is .7 seconds? Imagine the tempo of a march like stars and stripes forever. A beat and a half is about .7 seconds. I'm pretty sure I could get a shot off in that time without rushing too much.

If someone has some time over the holidays they should go out and hit the hoop...have someone toss them the ball and they shoot it. Have someone time it to see how long it takes.

James Forrest (https://youtu.be/yIO7CpJLF4I?t=4308) says hi.

(OK, there were 0.8 seconds left on the clock, not 0.7. And in this case, it really does look like a beat elapsed before the clock started. But I still think he gets it off in 0.7.)

Wheat/"/"/"
12-19-2016, 01:36 PM
Pinson's injuries have held him back so far in his career, especially offensively. The stats don't tell his story.

It took a great individual performance from Monk for KY to win that game. Great offense will beat good defense, and his offense was off the charts that game. We should all recognize that was a great performance by Monk.

There was a miscommunication between Williams and Hicks on his last 3pt shot, not some failure by Roy to not teach defense. Players have to execute better.

Troublemaker
12-19-2016, 01:43 PM
I wouldn't let one exceptional career game from a potential NBA all star define the quality of play from UNC's 2g's.


Monk's a 6'3" shooting guard. While I suppose anything's possible, I don't see an All-Star future for him just because he lit up the Heels.

He can be a quality scorer in the NBA, though, with his athleticism making up for his height.

Indoor66
12-19-2016, 01:56 PM
Pinson's injuries have held him back so far in his career, especially offensively. The stats don't tell his story.

It took a great individual performance from Monk for KY to win that game. Great offense will beat good defense, and his offense was off the charts that game. We should all recognize that was a great performance by Monk.

There was a miscommunication between Williams and Hicks on his last 3pt shot, not some failure by Roy to not teach defense. Players have to execute better.


What we always hear from the Dump. unCheat always beats itself.

kAzE
12-19-2016, 01:56 PM
Monk's a 6'3" shooting guard. While I suppose anything's possible, I don't see an All-Star future for him just because he lit up the Heels.

He can be a quality scorer in the NBA, though, with his athleticism making up for his height.

He's 6'3" in shoes, with a 6'3.5" wingspan. To me, that's not a starting shooting guard in the NBA. That's Lou Williams. Unless he really proves he's capable of being a point guard in the NBA, he seems like a sparkplug off the bench type of guy to me. The only recent guy who has kind of made it work as a 2 guard with that lack of size (but not really) is Monta Ellis, and Monta's athleticism was far superior to Monk's.

I'm still taking at least 5 guys before Monk in this draft, without hesitation: Tatum, Giles, Fultz, Ball, and Josh Jackson

English
12-19-2016, 02:11 PM
He's 6'3" in shoes, with a 6'3.5" wingspan. To me, that's not a starting shooting guard in the NBA. That's Lou Williams. Unless he really proves he's capable of being a point guard in the NBA, he seems like a sparkplug off the bench type of guy to me. The only guy who has kind of made it work as a 2 guard with that lack of size (but not really) is Monta Ellis, and Monta's athleticism was far superior to Monk's.

I'm still taking at least 5 guys before Monk in this draft, without hesitation: Tatum, Giles, Fultz, Ball, and Josh Jackson

I'd throw De'Aaron Fox on that list. Probably Dennis Smith Jr., too.

kAzE
12-19-2016, 02:13 PM
I'd throw De'Aaron Fox on that list. Probably Dennis Smith Jr., too.

I'm very skeptical about Fox at this point. He's got all the defensive gifts you want in a lead guard, and has really great passing and vision, but he's shooting something like 14% from the college 3 point line at the moment, and is not a good free throw shooter either. He projects to be something similar to Elfrid Payton, which most teams aren't going to be thrilled spending a lottery pick on.

I agree on Smith, though. He's a beast.

sammy3469
12-19-2016, 02:19 PM
He's 6'3" in shoes, with a 6'3.5" wingspan. To me, that's not a starting shooting guard in the NBA. That's Lou Williams. Unless he really proves he's capable of being a point guard in the NBA, he seems like a sparkplug off the bench type of guy to me. The only guy who has kind of made it work as a 2 guard with that lack of size (but not really) is Monta Ellis, and Monta's athleticism was far superior to Monk's.

I'm still taking at least 5 guys before Monk in this draft, without hesitation: Tatum, Giles, Fultz, Ball, and Josh Jackson

The Lou Williams analogy is pretty spot on (Williams is a pretty good NBA 2G at this point).. I'd also add that while he took some hard contested shots, he also worked his butt off getting open on screens especially in the first half. He has a tremendous knack for running his man off screens and catching. He still has some trouble quickly initiating the shot off that move (watch JJ for the comparison), but with the way he squares up his body, that should come in time. He also has a real good knack for creating his own space off dribble (Irvingesque) and for opening space running the PnR. Besides for his size, his skillset is that of a top-tier complimentary 2G in today's NBA. It's basically everything you want your 2G to be able to do to keep the defense honest.

For much of the game I thought UNC did a decent enough job of guarding him. He was just superb with his shooting. Did they have lapses, sure (especially in the second half), but he was hit a bunch of contested NBA quality shots.

EDIT: NBA Basketball has him with a 6'6" wingspan which isn't bad

Ichabod Drain
12-19-2016, 02:30 PM
He's 6'3" in shoes, with a 6'3.5" wingspan. To me, that's not a starting shooting guard in the NBA. That's Lou Williams. Unless he really proves he's capable of being a point guard in the NBA, he seems like a sparkplug off the bench type of guy to me. The only recent guy who has kind of made it work as a 2 guard with that lack of size (but not really) is Monta Ellis, and Monta's athleticism was far superior to Monk's.

I'm still taking at least 5 guys before Monk in this draft, without hesitation: Tatum, Giles, Fultz, Ball, and Josh Jackson

If someone tries to turn Monk into a PG it's really going to inhibit his game. I also think you're greatly underestimating Monks athleticism. He needs to learn to use it more in games but he definitely has it. https://youtu.be/cXUztf1xPjw

I don't think he'll be an all-star level player but I could easily see him being a starter getting major minutes.

kAzE
12-19-2016, 02:37 PM
If someone tries to turn Monk into a PG it's really going to inhibit his game. I also think you're greatly underestimating Monks athleticism. He needs to learn to use it more in games but he definitely has it. https://youtu.be/cXUztf1xPjw

I don't think he'll be an all-star level player but I could easily see him being a starter getting major minutes.

I think I got his athleticism about right. Check out Lou Williams: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gu_h0nANfFU

Both of them are really really good athletes, but the NBA has tons of 6'3" guys who can dunk with their heads above the rim. I was just saying neither of them are Monta-level athletes. The lack of size really hurts more at the defensive end. Can you see Monk successfully guarding 6'7" guys like Klay Thompson or DeMar DeRozan? Monk just seems like he's destined to be a bench guy. A major scorer off the bench, but still a bench guy.

Ichabod Drain
12-19-2016, 03:07 PM
I think I got his athleticism about right. Check out Lou Williams: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gu_h0nANfFU

Both of them are really really good athletes, but the NBA has tons of 6'3" guys who can dunk with their heads above the rim. I was just saying neither of them are Monta-level athletes. The lack of size really hurts more at the defensive end. Can you see Monk successfully guarding 6'7" guys like Klay Thompson or DeMar DeRozan? Monk just seems like he's destined to be a bench guy. A major scorer off the bench, but still a bench guy.

How many guards in the league can successfully guard Klay Thompson and DeMar DeRozan?

JJ Redick has a 6'3.25" wingspan by the way, and Monk is far more athletic than him. The biggest question for Monk is if he can keep consistently shooting well. If he does then I don't see him being a bench guy. If doesn't then his value is greatly diminished.

kAzE
12-19-2016, 03:25 PM
How many guards in the league can successfully guard Klay Thompson and DeMar DeRozan?

JJ Redick has a 6'3.25" wingspan by the way, and Monk is far more athletic than him. The biggest question for Monk is if he can keep consistently shooting well. If he does then I don't see him being a bench guy. If doesn't then his value is greatly diminished.

Your JJ point is fair. You could be right, Monk may just be talented enough to slot in as someone's starting 2 guard for a few years. JJ has pretty much maxed out what a 6'4" guy with short arms and limited athleticism can do defensively in the NBA with his super high basketball IQ and toughness, and he's still not a plus defender. But JJ is one of the best shooters of all time, which makes up for a lot of his weaknesses.

I'm not saying Monk can't become a good defensive player, but to expect him to reach his ceiling defensively AND for him to continue shooting like this from NBA range and with NBA starters guarding him is a lot to ask.

JasonEvans
12-19-2016, 04:11 PM
DraftExpress currently has Monk going #5, just ahead of Tatum at #6. NBADraft.net has him at #10, just after Tatum at #9.

It is still early and I suspect individual work outs will play a major role in the final order.

-Jason "Fultz, Jackson, and Ball seem to be in everyone's top 5 right now... those three are the only guys with a real consensus about them when it comes to top 5 picks" Evans

kAzE
12-19-2016, 05:22 PM
DraftExpress currently has Monk going #5, just ahead of Tatum at #6. NBADraft.net has him at #10, just after Tatum at #9.

It is still early and I suspect individual work outs will play a major role in the final order.

-Jason "Fultz, Jackson, and Ball seem to be in everyone's top 5 right now... those three are the only guys with a real consensus about them when it comes to top 5 picks" Evans

I have a hunch that Jayson Tatum and Harry Giles will both be top 3 picks by the end of the year. But I'll be the first to admit that hunch is completely unfounded on anything resembling real data.

But I think it's safe to say that this draft class is pretty much the most insane collection of basketball talent in a single draft class that I've seen in my lifetime.

Disclaimer: I was born after 1984, so I'm not counting the Jordan/Hakeem/Barkley/Stockon draft.

Wheat/"/"/"
12-19-2016, 07:23 PM
What we always hear from the Dump. unCheat always beats itself.

That's a real stretch to paint my comments as "we beat ourselves"....

I've been pretty clear it was an exceptional performance by Monk that was the key to winning that game.