WakeyLeaks

[sagegrouse]

Wake issued a statement that announcer Tommy Elrod, former football player and assistant coach, had been giving Wake game secrets (http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/18272514/wake-forest-finds-radio-announcer-leaked-game-plans-opponents) to opposing teams. He has been fired as an announcer.

Didn't help us much.

[Pghdukie]

Sounds like someone owed the book !

[Newton_14]

Thanks for sharing Sage. Wow. This is the most bizarre, strange, childish, juvenile thing I have seen in a long time! Crazy... So let's process this shall we? You are a former FB Player, Grad Assistant, and Assistant coach... the school hires a new head coach and as happens in most cases, the new guy brings in his own staff whom he is familiar with, doesn't keep you on the staff, but you land on your feet as the radio announcer for your beloved school. Yet, you are so angry at the new coach, you get revenge on him by selling out your beloved alma mater by stealing game plans and detailed plays and handing them over to opponents. In what world does that make any sense at all? I have to wonder if he gave the inside info over to fellow charter ACC Members? If yes, I am actually shocked that none of them turned him in themselves. I get that everyone wants a competitive edge, but I have a hard time believing charter members not named uncCheat would take the info and not rat him out. Maybe I am just naïve though.

I would bet a large sum of money that David Cutcliffe at a minimum would not accept and use the inside info, and would far more likely have turned the guy in to ACC Officials had the info been offered to Duke...

[Olympic Fan]

Interesting take on the Wake boards ...

They assume the same scenario that Newton does -- Elrod was unhappy that he was not retained by Clawson and leaked info to get revenge.

One poster points out that several of Elrod's old coaching associates under Grobe have been working for Wake opponents in the last three years, including Army in 2014, Indiana in 2015 and 2016 and Louisville in 2016.

Those are the most likely conduits for passing the info (although this is just speculation).

FWIW: I checked the Duke staff and no Duke assistant also worked with Elrod at Wake ... so until we hear differently, I doubt Duke was involved in the scheme (plus, I can't imagine Cut putting up with anything like that).

[sagegrouse]

FWIW: I checked the Duke staff and no Duke assistant also worked with Elrod at Wake ... so until we hear differently, I doubt Duke was involved in the scheme (plus, I can't imagine Cut putting up with anything like that).

Well, Oly, that's the real question. Isn't the receipt of credible information on opponents' game plans a violation of ethics? Isn't such behavior the antithesis of sportsmanship and NCAA standards? Where are the actions by the school administrations receiving such information? Louisville, the silence is deafening! Motorcycle Bobby Petrino is probably only one of several head coaches guilty of cheating.

[BD80]

Great story:

http://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/wakeyleaks-case-closed-wake-forest-radio-analyst-gave-game-plans-to-opponents/

Disgruntled football staffer, not renewed in regime change, becomes part of the school's radio broadcast team and for three years undercuts the team by divulging game plans to the competition.

[BigWayne]

Interesting take over at SI.com... (http://www.si.com/college-football/2016/12/13/wake-forest-game-plan-leak-louisville-bobby-petrino)

Calling for the ACC to investigate and punish any schools that took the info.


Petrino apparently cheated to win a game. And it was probably easy to do. When Elrod coached at Wake Forest, he was co-coordinator of the passing game. His other co-coordinator, Lonnie Galloway, now works on Petrino’s staff. That sound you hear should be Galloway calling his lawyer.

[bob blue devil]

situation is bizarre, but the ethics involved are another reminder of the nefarious influence of professional sports on academic institutions. colleges usually have pretty solid codes of ethics, but they continue to be in conflict with the sports culture that is taking its ethical lead from professional sports (just win, baby!). in most situations, there is an uncomfortable inconsistency, but in other cases (i'm looking at you morally corrupt Tar Heels) the pro sport ethics have conquered the institution's moral fabric.

out of curiosity, where are the "lines" here? i'm sure this is different for everyone, but i'm curious as to what people think. a couple of questions:

- what are the rules in corporate law? i assume they are not applicable here, but, what do i know?

- at what point does gathering intelligence become cheating? is it like insider trading ("material non-public information")? stealing signs is okay because everyone can see the signs being given, but stealing game plans is not because they are not readily available for everyone to observe?

- what are the obligations of the receiver? i have to admit, if my best friend passed along this sort of info, my first instinct would be to reprimand him and ignore it rather than turn him in, but perhaps i'd be missing the bigger picture. i'm sure others would use the info without questioning the ethics - it's not their fault wake doesn't have its house in order/it's all part of the broader game.

of course, if we wanted to attack a real interesting area of moral dilemmas, how about what's fair and foul in recruiting?

[Troublemaker]

I have to wonder if he gave the inside info over to fellow charter ACC Members? If yes, I am actually shocked that none of them turned him in themselves. I get that everyone wants a competitive edge, but I have a hard time believing charter members not named uncCheat would take the info and not rat him out. Maybe I am just naïve though.

I would bet a large sum of money that David Cutcliffe at a minimum would not accept and use the inside info, and would far more likely have turned the guy in to ACC Officials had the info been offered to Duke...



FWIW: I checked the Duke staff and no Duke assistant also worked with Elrod at Wake ... so until we hear differently, I doubt Duke was involved in the scheme (plus, I can't imagine Cut putting up with anything like that).

I tend to agree here about Duke's probable innocence in this and would recommend a thread title change until proven otherwise. (I kinda like BD80's "WakeyLeaks".)

[TKG]

Happiest people in sports today reside in Orange County, NC and Bristol, CT.

Please, Please, Please let the investigation lead to Fedora.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Are we sure Petrino didn't just pay for an ESPN Inside account?

That seems to be the most inaccessible and valuable information on the planet, best I can tell

[SCMatt33]

I think there's some assumptions that's it's too early to make. I don't think we can know anyone's innocence or guilt at this point. We don't even know how the info was passed. Was Elrod selling the info or giving it away? Did he deal directly with opposing schools or did he simply give the info to a middle man or broker who was shopping it around? I can't imagine that anyone who received information knew that it came from Elrod, or else I don't think the operation would have lasted for the better part of three seasons. If they knew who it came from, surely someone would have rejected the information and gone to Clawson with the leak. So from that standpoint, I don't think having a relationship with Elrod automatically signals guilt or not having one signals innocence. Even if he did deal with opposition, we don't know that he dealt with head coaches. They have way too much on the line to get caught with proprietary info on Wake. It would more likely have been low level guys assigned to scout the Wake game. Even further, we don't know from anything said how many accepted. Even Louisville, it's plausible that someone got cold feet and never retrieved he info, or that it could even have been given to them unsolicited. The official Wake Statement only seems to imply that at least one team accepted and at least one team rejected. We really don't know much beyond that, including if he even tried to give it away every week. There's so many unanswered questions here it makes my head spin.

[throatybeard]

(I kinda like BD80's "WakeyLeaks".)

That's the absolute best.

[Neals384]

Louisville is mentioned in the release as the place where Wake plays were found before the game. But the notion that Louisville might need an illegal edge to defeat Wake is nonsense. That leaves gambling as the most likely explanation - let's give Louisville an edge to help them cover the 35 point spread. It didn't work - Louisville won 44-12.

[niveklaen]

One thing I am curious about is if money changed hands. Accepting info from a disgruntled employee is one (still wrong), bribing them is something else.

[Olympic Fan]

Louisville is mentioned in the release as the place where Wake plays were found before the game. But the notion that Louisville might need an illegal edge to defeat Wake is nonsense. That leaves gambling as the most likely explanation - let's give Louisville an edge to help them cover the 35 point spread. It didn't work - Louisville won 44-12.

Actually, if you watched the game, the score was misleading -- the result of a Louisville avalanche in the final minutes.

Wake led the first three-quarters of the game.

It was a VERY competitive game.

[Neals384]

Actually, if you watched the game, the score was misleading -- the result of a Louisville avalanche in the final minutes.

Wake led the first three-quarters of the game.

It was a VERY competitive game.

OK, but my point remains - if you were a Louisville coach, would you accept help in the form of Wake plays? Not unless there was $ involved. You would never think that the game would be close, or competitive.

[Tripping William]

Fairly milquetoast (http://www.journalnow.com/sports/wfu/football/louisville-ad-jurich-releases-statement-on-wake-forest-leak/article_cffcba85-91d7-5e93-912e-e5b50c3add64.html), but better than nothing I guess.

Money quote:


Our offensive coordinator Lonnie Galloway and Tommy Elrod have known each other since 2007. Lonnie received a call from Elrod during the week of the Wake Forest game, and some information was shared with him that week. Among the communication were a few plays that were sent and then shared with our defensive staff. None of the special plays were run during the course of the game. Our defense regularly prepares for similar formations every week in their normal game plan.

[dukejim1]

Fairly milquetoast (http://www.journalnow.com/sports/wfu/football/louisville-ad-jurich-releases-statement-on-wake-forest-leak/article_cffcba85-91d7-5e93-912e-e5b50c3add64.html), but better than nothing I guess.

Money quote:

And the consequences for Lonnie Galloway are what?

[Tripping William]

I have been awaiting this column (http://www.journalnow.com/sports/wfu/my_take_on_wake/so-just-who-is-benedict-elrod/article_d48d7b68-c22d-11e6-8645-a7f498691019.html) because I think Dan Collins tends to have the pulse of Switzerland better than anyone else. It's early, but Collins asks a lot of the right questions. Still, I find this to be the money quote:


I've known the man folks are calling Benedict Elrod for more than 15 years. I got to know him pretty well during his days as an assistant for Jim Grobe and I got to know him really well the day we sat in his office and he recounted, tears streaming down his face, what it was like to lose a newborn son.

The manner in which he recounted the experience, and the truths and answers he and his family gained from it, convinced me Elrod was one of the most grounded people I've ever encountered.

And up until around 5 p.m. yesterday, nothing he did and said in these last three years he worked as Wake's football analyst caused me to question my opinion of the man.

All of which leads me to believe there is A LOT of missing info here.

[ricks68]

I have been awaiting this column (http://www.journalnow.com/sports/wfu/my_take_on_wake/so-just-who-is-benedict-elrod/article_d48d7b68-c22d-11e6-8645-a7f498691019.html) because I tend to think Dan Collins tends to have the pulse of Switzerland better than anyone else. It's early, but Collins asks a lot of the right questions. Still, I find this to be the money quote:

And up until around 5 p.m. yesterday, nothing he did and said in these last three years he worked as Wake's football analyst caused me to question my opinion of the man.


All of which leads me to believe there is A LOT of missing info here.

That's really sad. What a disappointment that must have been----for both of them.

ricks

[budwom]

I have been awaiting this column (http://www.journalnow.com/sports/wfu/my_take_on_wake/so-just-who-is-benedict-elrod/article_d48d7b68-c22d-11e6-8645-a7f498691019.html) because I think Dan Collins tends to have the pulse of Switzerland better than anyone else. It's early, but Collins asks a lot of the right questions. Still, I find this to be the money quote:



All of which leads me to believe there is A LOT of missing info here.

I don't think there's too much mystery about the motivation (revenge is a dish best served cold), but there should be lots of questions
of which schools Elrod contacted (going back as far as 2014 according to Wake) and why (presumably) none of them reported this info back to Wake.
There could be egg on a lot of faces....

[Tripping William]

I don't think there's too much mystery about the motivation (revenge is a dish best served cold), but there should be lots of questions
of which schools Elrod contacted (going back as far as 2014 according to Wake) and why (presumably) none of them reported this info back to Wake.
There could be egg on a lot of faces...

I'm withholding judgment, at least for now, about the revenge motive. It doesn't quite fit, to my current eye.

[Newton_14]

Fairly milquetoast (http://www.journalnow.com/sports/wfu/football/louisville-ad-jurich-releases-statement-on-wake-forest-leak/article_cffcba85-91d7-5e93-912e-e5b50c3add64.html), but better than nothing I guess.

Money quote:
Wow. How lame! "Hey I stole your money but I did not spend any of it... see! here it all is right here. I bought all the drugs with my own money"... I have news for Galloway. >Seek Employment. I have news for UL> Get ready to write a big big check to the ACC and pray the NCAA doesn't decide to come calling.

I love the analogy in the linked article from the front page of DBR. "When Petrino hired his mistress at Arkansas over more highly qualified candidates, then wrecked his motorcycle with the mistress riding on the back, and then lied to his bosses, was it a Harley Davidson problem??"

"Wake didn't run any of the plays we stole". How comforting. Here's your sign!

You can't fix stupid....

[AtlDuke72]

Wake issued a statement that announcer Tommy Elrod, former football player and assistant coach, had been giving Wake game secrets (http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/18272514/wake-forest-finds-radio-announcer-leaked-game-plans-opponents) to opposing teams. He has been fired as an announcer.

This story could go in any number of ways. I have not seen anything yet from Elrod either admitting or denying the story. If he did not do what he is charged with Elrod will have a huge case for defamation against Wake and probably others. If he did leak this to Louisville, or other schools, and they either accepted the information or failed to report it to the ACC and/or Wake, I hope that there will be severe sanctions against both him and those schools. Of course, if somebody paid Elrod for the information I think that some type of criminal charges would stick. If Petrino had knowledge of the information, regardless of how he got it, I hope the ACC gives him the boot based on his sordid history.

It should not matter whether Louisville was likely to beat Wake anyway or whether any school actually used the information. Nixon did not need to go into Watergate to win his election and look how that turned out for him. The whole story with Elrod is disturbing. Hopefully the powers that be will not just turn there heads from what looks like blatant cheating .

[sagegrouse]

I don't think there's too much mystery about the motivation (revenge is a dish best served cold), but there should be lots of questions
of which schools Elrod contacted (going back as far as 2014 according to Wake) and why (presumably) none of them reported this info back to Wake.
There could be egg on a lot of faces...


I'm withholding judgment, at least for now, about the revenge motive. It doesn't quite fit, to my current eye.

Whatever happened to the usual explanations of bad behavior, "sex, drugs and rock and roll?" Or maybe just some "daily bread?"

[hallcity]

This story could go in any number of ways. I have not seen anything yet from Elrod either admitting or denying the story. If he did not do what he is charged with Elrod will have a huge case for defamation against Wake and probably others. If he did leak this to Louisville, or other schools, and they either accepted the information or failed to report it to the ACC and/or Wake, I hope that there will be severe sanctions against both him and those schools. Of course, if somebody paid Elrod for the information I think that some type of criminal charges would stick. If Petrino had knowledge of the information, regardless of how he got it, I hope the ACC gives him the boot based on his sordid history.

It should not matter whether Louisville was likely to beat Wake anyway or whether any school actually used the information. Nixon did not need to go into Watergate to win his election and look how that turned out for him. The whole story with Elrod is disturbing. Hopefully the powers that be will not just turn there heads from what looks like blatant cheating .

Wake says they have texts and emails. Louisville is admitting it happened. They're just trying to downplay the significance.

[AtlDuke72]

Wake says they have texts and emails. Louisville is admitting it happened. They're just trying to downplay the significance.

Wake must be pretty sure of the story or somebody screwed up.

[devildeac]

Wake says they have texts and emails. Louisville is admitting it happened. They're just trying to downplay the significance.


Wake must be pretty sure of the story or somebody screwed up.

But, do they have the Wainstein report? :rolleyes:

Or, is it all academic? :rolleyes:

[bob blue devil]

i'm curious as to what protections are already in place - what are the rules that were broken here/will serve as the basis for punishments that some are projecting?

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

And I mean, who the heck invited this school from Louisville, KY, into our conference. Jeez. They are just one embarrassment after another. Maybe UL and the cheats can go form their own conference.

[TruBlu]

And I mean, who the heck invited this school from Louisville, KY, into our conference. Jeez. They are just one embarrassment after another. Maybe UL and the cheats can go form their own conference.

Yep. It could be called the "Big? Cheat", or the "Big? Sleeze". Miami, FSU, and the power football teams from the SEC could join.

"Don't let the door hit you on the butt on the way out."

[arnie]

Yep. It could be called the "Big? Cheat", or the "Big? Sleeze". Miami, FSU, and the power football teams from the SEC could join.

"Don't let the door hit you on the butt on the way out."

That group would have to invite the Heels as a charter, award winning member.

[budwom]

One (more) interesting aspect seems to be the assertion from a lawyer friend of Elrod's that what he may (or may not) have done is not illegal.
I guess that could well be true....but it's still a gigantic, ugly issue for the ACC. Thank goodness we have a man of unimpeachable moral integrity running the league!:cool:

[AtlDuke72]

That group would have to invite the Heels as a charter, award winning member.

Big surprise - Petrino denies that he knew anything about it and then the AD announces that they did, but they really did not need the information. . It is time for the ACC to part company with Louisville and Petrino.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Big surprise - Petrino denies that he knew anything about it and then the AD announces that they did, but they really did not need the information. . It is time for the ACC to part company with Louisville and Petrino.
More like... time for Louisville to part company with Petrino and Pitino.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

One (more) interesting aspect seems to be the assertion from a lawyer friend of Elrod's that what he may (or may not) have done is not illegal.
I guess that could well be true...but it's still a gigantic, ugly issue for the ACC. Thank goodness we have a man of unimpeachable moral integrity running the league!:cool:

That's my big question here - this looks bad, smells bad, and no one likes it. But is there a specific rule that was actually broken by either Elrod or Louisville?

I think the big loser here will be members of the media, as teams are now going to be really paranoid and limit access to their programs, practices, etc.

[JasonEvans]

More like... time for Louisville to part company with Petrino and Pitino.

Someone on ESPN radio yesterday, I forget who it was, commented that Louisville is a "win at all costs" school and that hiring Petrino and Pitino was the proof of that. The person said, "a school like this belongs in the SEC or maybe the Big 12. It does not belong in the ACC."

[English]

Big surprise - Petrino denies that he knew anything about it and then the AD announces that they did, but they really did not need the information. . It is time for the ACC to part company with Louisville and Petrino.

Dream on.

[Indoor66]

Someone on ESPN radio yesterday, I forget who it was, commented that Louisville is a "win at all costs" school and that hiring Petrino and Pitino was the proof of that. The person said, "a school like this belongs in the SEC or maybe the Big 12. It does not belong in the ACC."

Sounds like they're talking about unCheat.😈😎

[OldPhiKap]

The person said, "a school like this belongs in the SEC or maybe the Big 12. It does not belong in the ACC."

Syracuse cheating scandal.
UNC, worst cheating scandal in NCAA history.
Louisville, Pitino.
Louisville, Petrino.
Miami.
FSU.
Notre Dame just vacated two year's worth of wins, including the year they were national champion runner-ups.

There was a time when that quote was true. Unfortunately, that is no longer the case. Sad.

[devildeac]

Further "proof" that the local media do indeed read and "steal" funny stuff from DBR:

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/luke-decock/article120922138.html

WakeyLeaks.

Heh-heh.

[SCMatt33]

That's my big question here - this looks bad, smells bad, and no one likes it. But is there a specific rule that was actually broken by either Elrod or Louisville?

I think the big loser here will be members of the media, as teams are now going to be really paranoid and limit access to their programs, practices, etc.

I'm not sure about legally, but there are a couple of vague NCAA statues that they could use, most notably Rule 10.1 on unethical conduct that includes a bunch of "including, but not limited to" types of phrases that would allow them to include this sort of thing even if it's not specifically mentioned in the rules.

[BandAlum83]

If I am responding to an RFP and someone inside the company issuing the RFP would love for me to win the bid so tells me what the competition's pricing is, but no money or favors are exchanged, if I use that information would that be:


Immoral
Unethical
Illegal
All of the above
None of the above


I guess this can be looked at from the recipient's perspective or the leaker's perspective.

How would this be viewed in the corporate world?

[BandAlum83]

If I am responding to an RFP and someone inside the company issuing the RFP would love for me to win the bid so tells me what the competition's pricing is, but no money or favors are exchanged, if I use that information would that be:


Immoral
Unethical
Illegal
All of the above
None of the above


I guess this can be looked at from the recipient's perspective or the leaker's perspective.

How would this be viewed in the corporate world?

I guess a more analogous scenario is, my company is responding to an RFP, and I give my competition the pricing my company has settled on. I don't get money or favors, but clearly I have committed a fireable offense.

But what of the companies I gave the info to? Do they use the info, do the trust the info, do they turn me in to my company or the company issuing the RFP?

Sounds like a business ethics case study.

[budwom]

That's my big question here - this looks bad, smells bad, and no one likes it. But is there a specific rule that was actually broken by either Elrod or Louisville?

I think the big loser here will be members of the media, as teams are now going to be really paranoid and limit access to their programs, practices, etc.

With regard to Duke (both K and Cut I'd say), it's pretty much of a black hole anyway, little to no info escapes. But I agree, teams are going to be
re-thinking some things. I do think this was an odd set of circumstances with the Wake announcer having been ousted as a coach.

[Reilly]

... I think the big loser here will be members of the media, as teams are now going to be really paranoid and limit access to their programs, practices, etc.

I'm thinking we need to explore Bob Harris's bank accounts. In Ted Roof and Bill O'Brien, we had a national champion defensive mind and an NFL head coach offensive mind working together, and yet did nothing. Meanwhile, there's innocent ol' Bob, playing the nice guy, "rooting" so hard for the Devils he mis-calls Duke plays as successes only to see them end in failure.

[Kfanarmy]

If I am responding to an RFP and someone inside the company issuing the RFP would love for me to win the bid so tells me what the competition's pricing is, but no money or favors are exchanged, if I use that information would that be:


Immoral
Unethical
Illegal
All of the above
None of the above


I guess this can be looked at from the recipient's perspective or the leaker's perspective.

How would this be viewed in the corporate world?

Depending on the state, could be illegal...it is definitely unethical and if discovered would likely end in someone's firing and a hefty payout from the company to end or fulfill order resulting from a lawsuit.

[Devil2]

Depending on the state, could be illegal...it is definitely unethical and if discovered would likely end in someone's firing and a hefty payout from the company to end or fulfill order resulting from a lawsuit.

I think this would be considered illegal (as well as unethical and immoral). The information is obviously is another company's proprietary data and thus you could not use it

[niveklaen]

I think this would be considered illegal (as well as unethical and immoral). The information is obviously is another company's proprietary data and thus you could not use it

In government contracting, the government employee who illegally shared the bidder's proprietary bid data (this info is specifically excepted from release under FOIA) could in theory be prosecuted but in practice is more likely to be fired. The receiving company would likely be barred from that particular bid and might, depending on the circumstances, be barred from bidding on any future government contracts.

I have no idea what, if any, rules would apply in a purely civilian situation though.

[budwom]

I think this would be considered illegal (as well as unethical and immoral). The information is obviously is another company's proprietary data and thus you could not use it

Yeah, companies generally are strict about labeling proprietary stuff as "Corp X Confidential." I doubt if football playbooks are similarly marked, but I really have no idea.

[Devil2]

Yeah, companies generally are strict about labeling proprietary stuff as "Corp X Confidential." I doubt if football playbooks are similarly marked, but I really have no idea.

Whille it should be marked as proprietary/company confidential, in this case the data is obviously such and is obviously regarded as such by the person supplying the data. I am not a lawyer but I would guess the law would be treat as stealing that company's property

[devildeac]

From the front page yesterday if no one noted:

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/2016/12/14/13956282/more-on-the-leakin-deacon-scandal-wake-forest-louisville-football

Leakin' Deacon. Heh-heh.

[budwom]

Whille it should be marked as proprietary/company confidential, in this case the data is obviously such and is obviously regarded as such by the person supplying the data. I am not a lawyer but I would guess the law would be treat as stealing that company's property

Though of course it's a university and not a company...however that affects things...

[SCMatt33]

So Va Tech is acknowledging an assistant was contacted by Elrod, but no one at or above the coordinator level knew. This is significant in that the two previous schools identified (Army and Louisville) both had someone on staff who had previously worked with Elrod. My previous assumption was that he was only calling up close buddies, but maybe that wasn't the case. Also, I hope I'm being nervous about nothing, but Duke gave a no comment to the N&O yesterday when State and UNC both said they weren't contacted. I will hope that just meant the media guy hadn't talked to anyone yet and didn't know so didn't comment, but now anything is possible I suppose.

[-jk]

Further "proof" that the local media do indeed read and "steal" funny stuff from DBR:

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/luke-decock/article120922138.html

WakeyLeaks.

Heh-heh.

Alas, Luke deCock (http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/luke-decock/article115652218.html) apparently posted it a month earlier...

-jk

[SCMatt33]

Alas, Luke deCock (http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/luke-decock/article115652218.html) apparently posted it a month earlier...

-jk

I'm not even sure we'll ever know who actually came up with that. You can find a whole bunch of #Wakeyleaks on twitter going back to the original stuff in November

[-jk]

I'm not even sure we'll ever know who actually came up with that. You can find a whole bunch of #Wakeyleaks on twitter going back to the original stuff in November

Sure - I was just showing Luke didn't steal it from us...

-jk

[SCMatt33]

Btw, I'm on mobile and it's tough to link, but according to CBSsports, the N&O did ultimately confirm Duke's non-involvement. Whew.

[Tripping William]

A statement (http://www.journalnow.com/sports/wfu/football/former-hokies-coach-involved-in-wake-forest-leak-va-tech/article_1f2a3707-6d9d-571a-b5b9-98ddb14698e4.html) from the VPI AD. Less tone-deaf than the Louisville AD. Beamer and Foster deny knowledge, and it is laid at the feet of a "former assistant."

[devildeac]

A statement (http://www.journalnow.com/sports/wfu/football/former-hokies-coach-involved-in-wake-forest-leak-va-tech/article_1f2a3707-6d9d-571a-b5b9-98ddb14698e4.html) from the VPI AD. Less tone-deaf than the Louisville AD. Beamer and Foster deny knowledge, and it is laid at the feet of a "former assistant."

Crowder?

Nyah-nyah-nyah-g'Oro?

[Tom B.]

A statement (http://www.journalnow.com/sports/wfu/football/former-hokies-coach-involved-in-wake-forest-leak-va-tech/article_1f2a3707-6d9d-571a-b5b9-98ddb14698e4.html) from the VPI AD. Less tone-deaf than the Louisville AD. Beamer and Foster deny knowledge, and it is laid at the feet of a "former assistant."


In case anyone was wondering, this is the game for which Virginia Tech got Wake's gameplan info:


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Wake ended up defeating Virginia Tech 6-3 in double overtime, in possibly the worst football game in ACC history.

[Tripping William]

In case anyone was wondering, this is the game for which Virginia Tech got Wake's gameplan info:


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Wake ended up defeating Virginia Tech 6-3 in double overtime.

Yep. I confess that I attended it. Now steamed that, but for the Leakin' Deacon, I could have been spared that complete and utter assault on my aesthetic sensibilities . . .

[sagegrouse]

If I am responding to an RFP and someone inside the company issuing the RFP would love for me to win the bid so tells me what the competition's pricing is, but no money or favors are exchanged, if I use that information would that be:


Immoral
Unethical
Illegal
All of the above
None of the above


I guess this can be looked at from the recipient's perspective or the leaker's perspective.

How would this be viewed in the corporate world?
In the world of the U.S. government procurement, this is a no-no, although information does tend to seep out in large procurements, given the number of people involved in evaluation. What makes it clearly criminal is if there are kickbacks to the leaking official (See, Spiro Agnew)..

[dukejim1]

Which schools besides Carolina have announced they weren't contacted by Wake? I wish we would announce unless I have missed it.

[SCMatt33]

Which schools besides Carolina have announced they weren't contacted by Wake? I wish we would announce unless I have missed it.

The N&O has obtained comment from everyone other than Indiana (http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/wake-forest/article121146923.html). Everyone besides Louisville, Army and Va Tech that responded said Wake had not contacted them. Ignore the bit where it says Duke declined comment. I think that was a bad merge from an earlier article where Duke had declined yesterday, but had denied being contacted by Wake by today.

[BigWayne]

The N&O has obtained comment from everyone other than Indiana (http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/wake-forest/article121146923.html). Everyone besides Louisville, Army and Va Tech that responded said Wake had not contacted them. Ignore the bit where it says Duke declined comment. I think that was a bad merge from an earlier article where Duke had declined yesterday, but had denied being contacted by Wake by today.

The seven former Virginia Tech assistant coaches who are no longer with the program are Scot Loeffler, Shane Beamer, Stacy Searels, Bryan Stinespring, Aaron Moorehead, Torrian Gray and Cornell Brown.


So all of these guys are tarred with the mess until one of them fesses up or is fingered by VT.

[throatybeard]

Syracuse cheating scandal.
UNC, worst cheating scandal in NCAA history.
Louisville, Pitino.
Louisville, Petrino.
Miami.
FSU.
Notre Dame just vacated two year's worth of wins, including the year they were national champion runner-ups.

There was a time when that quote was true. Unfortunately, that is no longer the case. Sad.

We're not really in a conference with half these people. We're in a Coastal something.

[OldPhiKap]

We're not really in a conference with half these people. We're in a Coastal something.

True. And since Notre Dame is not in the ACC for football, those transgressions are of the sins an independent.

[Neals384]

Though of course it's a university and not a company...however that affects things...

"Yes, Mr. Dean of Students, someone gave me the answers to the final exam. But it's no big deal, because the professor changed the questions so it didn't help me any."

[Neals384]

I'm not sure about legally, but there are a couple of vague NCAA statues that they could use, most notably Rule 10.1 on unethical conduct that includes a bunch of "including, but not limited to" types of phrases that would allow them to include this sort of thing even if it's not specifically mentioned in the rules.

https://st.hzcdn.com/simgs/b6a128540589aed6_4-6571/contemporary-decorative-objects-and-figurines.jpg

[devildeac]

https://st.hzcdn.com/simgs/b6a128540589aed6_4-6571/contemporary-decorative-objects-and-figurines.jpg

How in the world did you get roy, bubba and carolyn to pose for that?

[budwom]

Of course it is conceivable that schools could deny having been contacted (including Duke) and yet someone at that school WAS contacted and
just didn't report it to anyone else..I guess Wake will figure this out, plus a better screening process for announcers.

I imagine Duke should mention this in the job description for Bob Harris's announcing job....applicant must refrain from giving plays away to the opposition...:cool:

[SCMatt33]

Of course it is conceivable that schools could deny having been contacted (including Duke) and yet someone at that school WAS contacted and
just didn't report it to anyone else..I guess Wake will figure this out, plus a better screening process for announcers.

I imagine Duke should mention this in the job description for Bob Harris's announcing job...applicant must refrain from giving plays away to the opposition...:cool:

When you say not contacted by anyone, did you mean Wake (for the investigation) or Elrod (with gameplans). Because Wake announced that they already contacted all parties involved in their investigation, and then every school either confirmed or denied (except Indiana) that Wake has been in touch as part of the investigation. Some issued their own press releases, but all have at least responded to requests from the N&O. I can't imagine that any PR person would make a comment to the N&O without knowing whether Wake had been in touch. I suspect this is the exact reason Duke gave a "no comment" at first before later denying that Wake has been in touch.

If you meant Elrod, I doubt that type of info would ever come out unless Elrod comes clean altogether. Wake seems to have contacted everyone who they have evidence on (phone calls, emails, etc.) so if there are more involved, either Elrod or the person contacted would have to come clean, or a receiving school would have to discover evidence not available to Wake, i.e an email between two non Wake persons discussing info from Elrod.

[Kfanarmy]

Which schools besides Carolina have announced they weren't contacted by Wake? I wish we would announce unless I have missed it.


UNC isn't sure. They got something in the mail but are having to outsource so someone can read it.

[alteran]

UNC isn't sure. They got something in the mail but are having to outsource so someone can read it.

UNC denies that they recieved a benefit here, and even if they did, only UNC can say whether the benefit mattered, which it didn't, and all the documents proving otherwise were taken illegally and FERPA, and in any case the time for complaining about this was six years before anything occurred, therefore it is non-actionable, and also they are suing you for bringing it up.

[SCMatt33]

UNC denies that they recieved a benefit here, and even if they did, only UNC can say whether the benefit mattered, which it didn't, and all the documents proving otherwise were taken illegally and FERPA, and in any case the time for complaining about this was six years before anything occurred, therefore it is non-actionable, and also they are suing you for bringing it up.

Well you also can't say they received a benefit as they shared it with other students and not just the football team.

[English]

How in the world did you get roy, bubba and carolyn to pose for that?

I love how folks on DBR take creative license with the key players of the unc scandal--carolyn folt, wayne weldon. Eh, close enough.

[Indoor66]

UNC isn't sure. They got something in the mail but are having to outsource so someone can read it.

unCheat isn't sure of anything except the Caro.w.ina way.

[alteran]

I love how folks on DBR take creative license with the key players of the unc scandal--carolyn folt, wayne weldon. Eh, close enough.
I don't follow.

AFAICT, Folt is as involved in covering up UNC's manifest ethical, academic, and moral failures (and hence seeing, speaking, hearing no evil) as much as anyone else. Has she become a bastion of integrity somewhere along the line and we all missed it? I'm all ears.

[English]

I don't follow.

AFAICT, Folt is as involved in covering up UNC's manifest ethical, academic, and moral failures (and hence seeing, speaking, hearing no evil) as much as anyone else. Has she become a bastion of integrity somewhere along the line and we all missed it? I'm all ears.

She has not. Quite the contrary, in fact. However, her name is Carol Folt. And Roy's dishonest, slimy academic chief's name is Wayne Walden.

We can add them to the heap of rogues, along with Bobby Cunningham, Butch Davies, Delilah Crowder, Jamison N'yangoro, and Ansel Dorrance.

[TruBlu]

UNC isn't sure. They got something in the mail but are having to outsource so someone can read it.


UNC denies that they recieved a benefit here, and even if they did, only UNC can say whether the benefit mattered, which it didn't, and all the documents proving otherwise were taken illegally and FERPA, and in any case the time for complaining about this was six years before anything occurred, therefore it is non-actionable, and also they are suing you for bringing it up.

And since it requires reading, it is only an academic issue, so the NCAA has no jurisdiction in the matter.

[alteran]

She has not. Quite the contrary, in fact. However, her name is Carol Folt. And Roy's dishonest, slimy academic chief's name is Wayne Walden.

We can add them to the heap of rogues, along with Bobby Cunningham, Butch Davies, Delilah Crowder, Jamison N'yangoro, and Ansel Dorrance.


LOL. Totally missed that!

[SCMatt33]

Getting back to actual Wakeyleaks news, Louisville has suspended the coordinator that accepted the info, effective immediately, according to the Courier-Journal.

[Tripping William]

And then there's this additional bit of bizarreness on top of the already bizarre, courtesy of Jim Grobe himself (http://thebiglead.com/2016/12/14/jim-grobe-wake-forest-tommy-elrod-baylor-bears/).



"For 13 years we had no indoor facility, no privacy," Grobe said. "Anybody could come and watch us just practice. So we had no secrets for 13 years and now all of a sudden that's a big deal. We never had the ability to keep people out of our practices, so anybody who wanted to come and watch and share what we did at practice could do that and we had no ability to stop it for 13 years. Now all of a sudden it's a big issue. I don't get it."

[sagegrouse]

She has not. Quite the contrary, in fact. However, her name is Carol Folt. And Roy's dishonest, slimy academic chief's name is Wayne Walden.

We can add them to the heap of rogues, along with Bobby Cunningham, Butch Davies, Delilah Crowder, Jamison N'yangoro, and Ansel Dorrance.

Carol and Bubba arrived after all the discovered wrong-doing, but have jumped into the pigsty and gotten as dirty as everyone else. BTW, it's Debbie and Julius and Davis.

[devildeac]

Carol and Bubba arrived after all the discovered wrong-doing, but have jumped into the pigsty and gotten as dirty as everyone else. BTW, it's Debbie and Julius and Davis.

A scoundrel by any other name...

[sagegrouse]

Louisville suspends (http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/18293818/louisville-cardinals-suspend-offensive-coordinator-lonnie-galloway-amid-wake-forest-game-information-scandal) the offensive coordinator, Lonnie Galloway, for the bowl game against LSU in the Citrus Bowl and agrees to accept whatever punishment the ACC levies.

[devildeac]

Louisville suspends (http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/18293818/louisville-cardinals-suspend-offensive-coordinator-lonnie-galloway-amid-wake-forest-game-information-scandal) the offensive coordinator, Lonnie Galloway, for the bowl game against LSU in the Citrus Bowl and agrees to accept whatever punishment the ACC levies.

Not holding my breath for any of the cheaters to be suspended for 20-25 years of fake classes/cheating/lying/improper benefits/grade changing/academic fraud/etc :mad: .

[quahog174]

Carol and Bubba arrived after all the discovered wrong-doing, but have jumped into the pigsty and gotten as dirty as everyone else. BTW, it's Debbie and Julius and Davis.

...and Anson

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

...and Anson

Arson? I missed that page of the Wainwright report.

[devildeac]

Arson? I missed that page of the Wainwright report.

Did you mean Arse-on? :rolleyes:

[SCMatt33]

The ACC has issued fines of $25,000 each to Louisville and Virginia tech, (http://www.theacc.com/news/acc-issues-institutional-fines-to-louisville-and-virginia-tech-12-17-2016) which is the max allowed under conference bylaws according to their release. They have also accepted Louisvilles suspension of Galloway.

[AtlDuke72]

The ACC has issued fines of $25,000 each to Louisville and Virginia tech, (http://www.theacc.com/news/acc-issues-institutional-fines-to-louisville-and-virginia-tech-12-17-2016) which is the max allowed under conference bylaws according to their release. They have also accepted Louisvilles suspension of Galloway.

So Louisville suspends the OC for one game and no mention of Petrino's involvement? You will never convince me that the head coach did not get the information.

[sagegrouse]

So Louisville suspends the OC for one game and no mention of Petrino's involvement? You will never convince me that the head coach did not get the information.
Or that Pitino didn't know about the hookers.

[devildeac]

Or that Pitino didn't know about the hookers.

Or that roy didn't know about the many years of fake classes.

[OldPhiKap]

Or that roy didn't know about the many years of fake classes.

To be fair, he probably didn't know about the ones prior to 2003.

[devildeac]

To be fair, he probably didn't know about the ones prior to 2003.

Fair? We're talking c*rolina here, c'mon. :rolleyes: ;)

[OldPhiKap]

Fair? We're talking c*rolina here, c'mon. :rolleyes: ;)

Well, I'm spreading the blame back to Dean which is my true concern.

[Olympic Fan]

Providing deniability for head coaches is a primary job for assistant coaches and other staff members.

It's so prevalent that the NCAA changed its rules a few years ago to punish head coaches for violations that occurred under their watch -- whether they knew about it or not. Because the NCAA knows that the head coaches ALWAYS know ... it's just always unproveable.

That's what got Jim Beoheim his nine-game suspension last year. He was not implicated in the scandal that forced 'Cuse to miss the 2015 NCAA Tournament. But he was still punished.

Same for Larry Brown at SMU -- he got nine games for violations that were never linked to him.

That's why I think Rick Pitino is going to receive a suspension when the NCAA and Louisville finally settle stripper-gate. The NCAA doesn't need to prove he was behind the scandal -- just that it happened under his watch (which is clearly did).

[-jk]

Providing deniability for head coaches is a primary job for assistant coaches and other staff members.

It's so prevalent that the NCAA changed its rules a few years ago to punish head coaches for violations that occurred under their watch -- whether they knew about it or not. Because the NCAA knows that the head coaches ALWAYS know ... it's just always unproveable.

That's what got Jim Beoheim his nine-game suspension last year. He was not implicated in the scandal that forced 'Cuse to miss the 2015 NCAA Tournament. But he was still punished.

Same for Larry Brown at SMU -- he got nine games for violations that were never linked to him.

That's why I think Rick Pitino is going to receive a suspension when the NCAA and Louisville finally settle stripper-gate. The NCAA doesn't need to prove he was behind the scandal -- just that it happened under his watch (which is clearly did).

What about Roy and the Hat? <sigh>

-jk

[devildeac]

What about Roy and the Hat? <sigh>

-jk

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[Reilly]

So it was Shane Beamer from VT who was offered info. And now, oddly, present employer UGA has fined Beamer, it seems.

[Tripping William]

So it was Shane Beamer from VT who was offered info. And now, oddly, present employer UGA has fined Beamer, it seems.

And we're to believe Shane's dad (the HC) "didn't know"?

[Reilly]

And we're to believe Shane's dad (the HC) "didn't know"?

Yes, that is what we're to believe. Nor did Shane tell any of his fellow coaches. Shane apparently received the call, and did not have the integrity or good judgment to turn in the turncoat, but did have the integrity or good judgment or maybe just good, dumb luck of forgetfulness to not mention the call to anyone else on staff. I believe Shane. Who wouldn't? In other news, Santa will be here in just a bit over 48 hours.

[Tripping William]

Yes, that is what we're to believe. Nor did Shane tell any of his fellow coaches. Shane apparently received the call, and did not have the integrity or good judgment to turn in the turncoat, but did have the integrity or good judgment or maybe just good, dumb luck of forgetfulness to not mention the call to anyone else on staff. I believe Shane. Who wouldn't? In other news, Santa will be here in just a bit over 48 hours.

Besides his daddio, "fellow coaches" = Bud Foster. Riiiiiiight.

[Reilly]

..."fellow coaches" = Bud Foster. Riiiiiiight.

In fairness, Foster spends the night before games scooping dirt into a lunch pail and designing head shots on opposing QBs, so he was probably tied up.

[Neals384]

Army suspends coach for 2 weeks in WakeyLeaks caseAnd fines him $25,000.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2017/02/07/army-suspends-coach-for-2-weeks-in-wakeyleaks-case/97598140/

[budwom]

Army suspends coach for 2 weeks in WakeyLeaks caseAnd fines him $25,000.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2017/02/07/army-suspends-coach-for-2-weeks-in-wakeyleaks-case/97598140/

So much for the impeccable honor of West Point. Hardly even a slap on the wrist for an overtly dishonest act. Just like everyone else I guess.

[madscavenger]

To be fair, he probably didn't know about the ones prior to 2003.

Roy was an assistant coach under the unnamed, unindicted co-conspirator head coach from 1978-1988.