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atoomer0881
12-05-2016, 11:31 AM
So the new AP rankings came out just now. Somehow, after our win over Michigan State, our manhandling of Maine, and the return of 2 of our top 3 freshmen prospects, we sat still at No. 5 while UCLA jumped 9 spots to No. 2 and Baylor jumped 5 spots to No. 4 (don't understand how beating No. 7 vaults you to No. 4). That just doesn't make sense to me at all. Anyone agree or disagree?

wilson
12-05-2016, 11:35 AM
So the new AP rankings came out just now. Somehow, after our win over Michigan State, our manhandling of Maine, and the return of 2 of our top 3 freshmen prospects, we sat still at No. 5 while UCLA jumped 9 spots to No. 2 and Baylor jumped 5 spots to No. 4 (don't understand how beating No. 7 vaults you to No. 4). That just doesn't make sense to me at all. Anyone agree or disagree?Baylor is getting lots of love because they now have 3 wins over top-10 teams: Oregon, Louisville, and Creighton (plus another one over then-#24 Michigan State). It's pretty tough to argue against that resume (and indeed, Baylor even got 6 first place votes).
UCLA vaults thanks to a high-profile win over big, bad Kentucky (at Rupp, no less). Hard to argue against that win too; it's worlds better than anything on our resume.
I don't care about December polls. I'm more than confident that the conference season will sort things out, the cream will rise to the top, and we'll be right in the mix at season's end. Plus, we're still ranked ahead of the cheats.

flyingdutchdevil
12-05-2016, 11:36 AM
Baylor is getting lots of love because they now have 3 wins over top-10 teams: Oregon, Louisville, and Baylor (plus another one over then-#24 Michigan State). It's pretty tough to argue against that resume.
UCLA vaults thanks to a high-profile win over big, bad Kentucky (at Rupp, no less). Hard to argue against that win too; it's worlds better than anything on our resume.
I don't care about December polls. I'm more than confident that the conference season will sort things out, the cream will rise to the top, and we'll be right in the mix at season's end.

Agree with everything in this post. Baylor and UCLA absolutely deserve to be ranked ahead of Duke. They have better resumes with zero losses.

Olympic Fan
12-05-2016, 11:37 AM
So the new AP rankings came out just now. Somehow, after our win over Michigan State, our manhandling of Maine, and the return of 2 of our top 3 freshmen prospects, we sat still at No. 5 while UCLA jumped 9 spots to No. 2 and Baylor jumped 5 spots to No. 4 (don't understand how beating No. 7 vaults you to No. 4). That just doesn't make sense to me at all. Anyone agree or disagree?

Don't sweat it.

I have no problem with UCLA and Baylor jumping ... in fact, if we were going strictly by resumes, I'd vote Baylor No. 1 -- wins over Oregon, Michigan State, Xavier, Louisville, VCU. Anybody else got six top 50 wins (and that doesn't count a very solid Florida Gulf Coast team)?

uh_no
12-05-2016, 11:40 AM
Don't sweat it.

I have no problem with UCLA and Baylor jumping ... in fact, if we were going strictly by resumes, I'd vote Baylor No. 1 -- wins over Oregon, Michigan State, Xavier, Louisville, VCU. Anybody else got six top 50 wins (and that doesn't count a very solid Florida Gulf Coast team)?

good to see crazy go nuts university back playing some good ball again!

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
12-05-2016, 11:59 AM
I don't care about December polls. I'm more than confident that the conference season will sort things out, the cream will rise to the top, and we'll be right in the mix at season's end. Plus, we're still ranked ahead of the cheats.

All of this is the most important. Anyone who believes us not to be a top team will be served some crow between now and March.

Have faith in the system. We are very good and getting better.

CameronBornAndBred
12-05-2016, 12:13 PM
All that matters is that we are ahead of the two lesser blues. :cool:

mo.st.dukie
12-05-2016, 12:19 PM
I don't have a problem with it. UCLA and Baylor have some of the best wins of any team out there and they are undefeated. We'll have our time soon enough. The thing that makes college basketball better than college football is a.) the polls don't mean much and b) there's more games to average things out so that a team is not overranked just by having a handful of good wins, they've got to do it over the long haul and show those wins were who they really are.

Kedsy
12-05-2016, 12:51 PM
I agree with everyone about Baylor -- they not only have the wins against a bunch of top teams, but they demolished both Oregon and Michigan State.

UCLA, though, I disagree. They have one decent win (two if you count Texas A&M). Pulling an upset, even a good one, doesn't make you the #2 team in the country. That's Bill-Walton-champion thinking.

OldPhiKap
12-05-2016, 12:58 PM
FWIW the Coach's poll has us at #4 (with 2 first place votes), ahead of UNCheat and then Baylor.

We are in the top 5; ahead of the heels; and we have two of our three big freshmen just starting. I'm copacetic.

atoomer0881
12-05-2016, 01:51 PM
I agree with everyone about Baylor -- they not only have the wins against a bunch of top teams, but they demolished both Oregon and Michigan State.

UCLA, though, I disagree. They have one decent win (two if you count Texas A&M). Pulling an upset, even a good one, doesn't make you the #2 team in the country. That's Bill-Walton-champion thinking.


FWIW the Coach's poll has us at #4 (with 2 first place votes), ahead of UNCheat and then Baylor.

We are in the top 5; ahead of the heels; and we have two of our three big freshmen just starting. I'm copacetic.

I certainly don't discredit what Baylor has done this season. But to my understanding the rankings aren't really supposed to look at body of work. That's what seeding is for in the Tournament. Rankings usually look at "what did you do this week?" And yes, sometimes I think it spills over into several weeks to see how you've been playing. But body of work doesn't always matter. It's why when you are undefeated and 17-0 and No. 1 in the country with wins over several top teams, if you lose your 18th game, you drop. Maybe you drop to 3 or 4, but the AP voters usually won't look at your body of work and say let's keep them at No. 1.

I agree with Kedsy and have less an issue with Baylor as I do UCLA. At least Baylor has been steadily climbing the rankings. That said I still see no reason why they couldn't have jumped from No. 9 to No. 5 after defeating a No. 7 Xavier. But I really disagree with UCLA. There is no reason No. 11 should jump 9 spots to No. 2 because they happened to beat the No. 1 team. I mean if that's the measuring stick, then why didn't Kansas jump to No. 1 after defeating us? For me I think Villanova should have moved to No. 1, Kansas to No. 2, and Duke to No. 3. Baylor could have jumped to No. 4, and UCLA could have jumped to No. 5. That seems like a more realistic move for one week of basketball. Did UCLA prove they are a top 5 team by beating Kentucky? I'd say yes, but I certainly wouldn't say they deserve to be No. 2 right now. Just my two cents.

weezie
12-05-2016, 01:56 PM
All that matters is that we are ahead of the two lesser blues. :cool:

As we are the Mo' Better Blue.

pfrduke
12-05-2016, 01:58 PM
Apparently this is the first time in 22 years that Duke, UNC, UCLA, Kentucky, Kansas, and Indiana are all in the top 10 in the same week.

Ichabod Drain
12-05-2016, 02:05 PM
I certainly don't discredit what Baylor has done this season. But to my understanding the rankings aren't really supposed to look at body of work. That's what seeding is for in the Tournament. Rankings usually look at "what did you do this week?" And yes, sometimes I think it spills over into several weeks to see how you've been playing. But body of work doesn't always matter. It's why when you are undefeated and 17-0 and No. 1 in the country with wins over several top teams, if you lose your 18th game, you drop. Maybe you drop to 3 or 4, but the AP voters usually won't look at your body of work and say let's keep them at No. 1.

I agree with Kedsy and have less an issue with Baylor as I do UCLA. At least Baylor has been steadily climbing the rankings. That said I still see no reason why they couldn't have jumped from No. 9 to No. 5 after defeating a No. 7 Xavier. But I really disagree with UCLA. There is no reason No. 11 should jump 9 spots to No. 2 because they happened to beat the No. 1 team. I mean if that's the measuring stick, then why didn't Kansas jump to No. 1 after defeating us? For me I think Villanova should have moved to No. 1, Kansas to No. 2, and Duke to No. 3. Baylor could have jumped to No. 4, and UCLA could have jumped to No. 5. That seems like a more realistic move for one week of basketball. Did UCLA prove they are a top 5 team by beating Kentucky? I'd say yes, but I certainly wouldn't say they deserve to be No. 2 right now. Just my two cents.

I don't think there's any specific guidelines to AP poll voting. Probably why there's usually some inconsistency and unhappy fan bases with it.

It should be noted that UCLA is undefeated, something Kansas couldn't claim after beating us. Also that UCLA win is the best win in the country so far. They beat the #1 team in a true road game. That's big even if it's early in the year. Lot's of games left to be played though.

Edouble
12-05-2016, 02:07 PM
I certainly don't discredit what Baylor has done this season. But to my understanding the rankings aren't really supposed to look at body of work. That's what seeding is for in the Tournament. Rankings usually look at "what did you do this week?" And yes, sometimes I think it spills over into several weeks to see how you've been playing. But body of work doesn't always matter. It's why when you are undefeated and 17-0 and No. 1 in the country with wins over several top teams, if you lose your 18th game, you drop. Maybe you drop to 3 or 4, but the AP voters usually won't look at your body of work and say let's keep them at No. 1.

By your own definition, though, ranking look more at what you didn't do this week. If you don't lose (you win your games), you stay put or you move up slightly.

If you win a particularly big game (UCLA) you are more likely to move up than if you did not win a big game (Creighton).

Body of work is important too. Until Kansas loses again, it will be hard to rank us ahead of them, since we lost the head to head matchup. Of course by the methodology behind the poll, they'll stay ahead of us by virtue of not losing anyway.

A big game/big win like UCLA taking out Kentucky at home tends to move the needle a bit more earlier in the season, before the dust has settled a bit and we have a better idea of just how good some of the teams are.

pfrduke
12-05-2016, 02:14 PM
Apparently this is the first time in 22 years that Duke, UNC, UCLA, Kentucky, Kansas, and Indiana are all in the top 10 in the same week.

Replying to myself - the other 4 teams to round out the top 10 that poll (January 17, 1994) were Arkansas, UMass, Arizona, and UConn. In terms of overall program history, that has to be one of the best top 10s of all time - the "other" programs collectively have 6 championships and 16* final fours to go along with the 37 championships** and 92 final fours* of the big 6. This year's group is Villanova, Baylor, Gonzaga, and Creighton, which is a step down.

*includes one vacated
**does not include bakery championships

JasonEvans
12-05-2016, 03:10 PM
Apparently this is the first time in 22 years that Duke, UNC, UCLA, Kentucky, Kansas, and Indiana are all in the top 10 in the same week.

It certainly isn't Duke fault that it has taken so long for such a thing to occur. UNLA and Indiana are almost certainly the teams in that group who have spent the most weeks outside the Top 10 during the past 22 years..

TexHawk
12-05-2016, 03:21 PM
Replying to myself - the other 4 teams to round out the top 10 that poll (January 17, 1994) were Arkansas, UMass, Arizona, and UConn. In terms of overall program history, that has to be one of the best top 10s of all time - the "other" programs collectively have 6 championships and 16* final fours to go along with the 37 championships** and 92 final fours* of the big 6. This year's group is Villanova, Baylor, Gonzaga, and Creighton, which is a step down.

*includes one vacated
**does not include bakery championships

It's pretty close to the best top 10 of all time. Louisville, with their 3 titles, is sitting at #11. With two titles each, Florida (#21) and Cincy (#22) are close to making the Top 10 with a nice run this year. Michigan State (also 2 titles) has the talent to make it back there too. The only team truly struggling with multiple championships is UCONN (3-4).

cato
12-05-2016, 03:23 PM
Replying to myself - the other 4 teams to round out the top 10 that poll (January 17, 1994) were Arkansas, UMass, Arizona, and UConn. In terms of overall program history, that has to be one of the best top 10s of all time - the "other" programs collectively have 6 championships and 16* final fours to go along with the 37 championships** and 92 final fours* of the big 6. This year's group is Villanova, Baylor, Gonzaga, and Creighton, which is a step down.

*includes one vacated
**does not include bakery championships

Interesting that Krzyzewski, Williams and Calipari are the three coaches to be at the helm of top 10 teams in both polls, 22 years apart.

DBFAN
12-05-2016, 03:35 PM
The prob tho with saying this team beat such and such starts making it a football thing. By that virtue every team that has made a huge upset already should be in the top 10. It's also a bit much to say that UCLA should jump that many spots because UK was number 1. UK was number 1 by default., They had no big wins can't play defense worth a flip, but somehow beating them gets you 9 spots. So I guess we can expect some SEC teams making major poll jumps when UK loses a few games here and there. We all know good and well that when UCLA loses the first game that they shouldn't they won't fall 9 spots, because then it will be said oh they beat the number 1 team so not gonna punish them. So basically UCLA is the flavor of the week.

BD80
12-05-2016, 03:36 PM
All that matters is that we are ahead of the two lesser blues. :cool:

unc has two different shades of ugly baby blue?

uh_no
12-05-2016, 03:47 PM
Interesting that Krzyzewski, Williams and Calipari are the three coaches to be at the helm of top 10 teams in both polls, 22 years apart.

was that year's umass team sanctioned? In which case, calipari was not really present in that poll :D

DBFAN
12-05-2016, 03:52 PM
I would also wonder then if UK loses to more teams does UCLA fall in polls. It just irritates me that it's becoming more and more like College football every year.

uh_no
12-05-2016, 03:57 PM
I would also wonder then if UK loses to more teams does UCLA fall in polls. It just irritates me that it's becoming more and more like College football every year.

The easy solution is not to care...since the voters don't. You've probably put more thought into this week's poll than a voter might for the entire season.

Channing
12-05-2016, 04:40 PM
good to see crazy go nuts university back playing some good ball again!

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=crazy+go+nuts+university&view=detail&mid=1FDC4D5ED9AD6A11AEE61FDC4D5ED9AD6A11AEE6&FORM=VIRE

uh_no
12-05-2016, 04:50 PM
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=crazy+go+nuts+university&view=detail&mid=1FDC4D5ED9AD6A11AEE61FDC4D5ED9AD6A11AEE6&FORM=VIRE

Back in 2011, when they were really good...they just dunked the ball all the time, so Kenpom would refer to them as CGNU.

also...bing?

DBFAN
12-05-2016, 04:59 PM
The easy solution is not to care...since the voters don't. You've probably put more thought into this week's poll than a voter might for the entire season.

You are prob right. I have calmed down.now, and have proceeded to not give a... well you know