MBB: Duke 94, Maine 55 Post Game Thread

[Bob Green]

Discuss the game here. Nice to see a couple more freshmen out there.

[kAzE]

The Force is strong with this one.

[Devilwin]

Hope it was just cramps with Tatum and Bolden. Anybody heard?

[subzero02]

Luke can ball...

[CDu]

Hope it was just cramps with Tatum and Bolden. Anybody heard?

Sure looked like cramps to me. Nothing in either player's body language suggested a setback.

[dragoneye776]

Anyone predict a Vrank, Jeter, Javin, Jack White lineup with Amile running the point?

[Tripping William]

A complete waste of time for everyone. Except:

Kennard (career high)
Jefferson (career high)
Tatum (first start)
Bolden (college debut)
Vrankovic (good minutes)
White (ditto)

:rolleyes:

[mgtr]

Happy to see two of the new freshmen, as well as DeLaurier, White, and Vrank get some serious burn. White may turn out to be a great four-year player.

[kAzE]

Hope it was just cramps with Tatum and Bolden. Anybody heard?

Tatum's was almost certainly a calf cramp, judging from the way he was moving when it happened. Not sure what happened with Bolden, since he actually had some of his best plays of the night after he came up limping. I couldn't tell if he was cramping or not. Hopefully nothing serious.

One thing that I've found extremely amusing about some of our garbage time lineups: We often play with 5 bigs on the floor. A few games back, it was Jack White running the point, and for a short stretch in this one, we had Amile as the lead ball handler on the floor, until Nick came in for him.

Many of you guys wrote off Jack as the next Marty Pocius . . . but I think he's proving that he will be a contributor in the rotation in a couple of years. Sure, he hasn't played against the best competition, but he's tough and really gets after loose balls and rebounds. He's also got a good stroke from 3 and from the foul line. Maybe a more athletic Lee Melchionni? We'll see.

[DukieInBrasil]

such a crazy season so far. We get 2 of the injured Fr. back, but not the one K said was closest to returning. And we sit 2 starters, 1 of whom had been playing hurt, the other who knows.
Luke, way to rebound from a tough one, with an absolutely spectacular performance.
Amile, ibid. Btw, both Amile and Luke (as well as Tatum and Bolden ;-) set career highs)
I know everybody likes to say that Chase has improved since last year, and there have been games so far where he played either adequately or pretty well. He had 5 turnovers tonight and grabbed 1 rebound in 24 minutes. Vrank scored 8 and got 3 rebounds in 13 minutes, with 2 ast and 1 block. I just don't get why Jeter is getting those minutes and not Vrank. For the season Vrank's rebounding rate is about double Chase's (13.5 vs. 6.9 r/40). Vrank shoots way better from the field (~64% - 55%). The only thing Chase does better is block shots (11 v. 4), but he only blocks shots at a slightly higher rate (2 vs. 2.8 b/40). It might be related to the quality of players each is facing (generally, starters vs. subs).

[Saratoga2]

We totally outclassed Maine in this one so it was easy to rest a couple of guys we will need in the next game.

Tatum is a very solid player. His offense is very good although he needs to integrate into the offense and not take very difficult shots early in the clock. With him, we have Jason Grayson, Luke, Amile, Frank and Matt, who can all score. All this and I expect Harry Giles to be an offensive force as well Name your poison, Duke is going to score.

Both Luke and Amile had great nights, even factoring in the level of competition.

Bolden is a big athletic kid who is decent around the basket. Probably needs seasoning, but can do some good things for the team


DeLaurier, Vrank, White, Jeter all are decent Div I players. Great resource for our starters to practice against when we get healthier. In a pinch, any of these kids can play without too much of a drop off on our team

[DBFAN]

Per Coach K: Tatum had cramps in both legs. Said he only practiced 1 1/2 times this week. Didn't say anything about Bolden, because I don't think anyone on staff saw that limp he had for those few seconds. Seriously doubt it was anything major since the next trip down floor he had a dunk. On the radio it seems that K had a set number of mins for both of them to play. He also said that Bolden hadn't practiced at all. So I would imagine that cramps were gonna be inevitable

[BD80]

Anyone predict a Vrank, Jeter, Javin, Jack White lineup with Amile running the point?

Sigh. Stall ball.

Amile our best ballhandler on the court? Boy, won't Coach K ever try something new?

[rocketeli]

Nice to see some freshmen out there. Tatum was obviously rusty and not quite integrated into the flow with the teammates, but you can see he is special.
I'm at peace with Jeter. Clearly he has worked hard to improve the things he can improve--positioning, court sense, some defense, but not every player that comes to Duke is the next Christian Laettner. Just as we all do, he has a certain ceiling of talent/ability/athletism and it is what it is. He's doing the best he can with what he's got and what more can we ask? I do want to see more of Vrank as a backup, but with Bolden and Tatum back both Jeter and Vrank will most likely see their playing time take a dive.

[BLPOG]

Post-game press conference (http://www.goduke.com/mediaPortal/player.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ID=5810272)

I recommend watching it

[Neals384]

Anyone predict a Vrank, Jeter, Javin, Jack White lineup with Amile running the point?

Averaging 6' 9.6". Is this the tallest lineup ever to take the court for Duke?

[Neals384]

This is going to be a fun season. Wow! Tatum is for real, and I like Bolden's defense a lot.

[uh_no]

When I saw grayson not warming up, I figured that it made sense to rest him...as he'd get nothing out of the game. It's then that I also figured it would be a good game to get the freshman in. There'd be no pressure to win, and shouldn't be much athleticism on the opposite side to really force them to push anything. I was not surprised, then, when Tatum was announced in the lineup.

In the first minutes of the game, it was clear exactly how important Grayson is for this team. Even when he's not scoring, his energy and ability to make things happen when nothing else is are critical. Instead we had an offense that seemed pretty lost for a few minutes, and a lack luster press, which until this point had been devastating early against weak teams. Eventually, though, they all figured out they could just give the ball to amile, and I think that helped open things up for Luke.

It wasn't helped by the fact that Tatum clearly was tentative early. It took him a while to feel his way on the offense. He seemed to be afraid of doing something wrong, and this lead to some awkward plays, I think one fumble and once when he slipped. The team continued to get him touches, though, and he started to show his stuff, getting some really nice looks. He didn't finish many, but that's understandable given the time off. I look forward to seeing what he's got moving forward. This team has been lacking a wing player...and now it's not.

Amile was great, as usual. I think K put him in at the end to try to get that double-double....just couldn't get those boards! It's almost a shame our front-court depth is growing...since he could have had an outside shot of averaging a double double....which is an incredible feat. Mason never did it....though came darn close twice, averaging 9.2 and 9.9 rebs over his final two years.

Luke was what luke could be without having to share guard-load. He had a much better stroke tonight....though I think he still took a couple ill-advised threes....If you haven't figured out, I'm not a fan at all of threes off a dribble...unless you're REALLY wide open. Luke did this thrice in the first half (I think), and none went in. I don't mean to rain on an otherwise great game, but still something I think he can do better. Perhaps when you're shouldering so much of the offensive load, you get a break.....fine :)

The most positive thing for me, however, was seeing and interacting with incoming president price. He had a *very* quick chat with me despite my wearing an atrocious game day staff shirt. I said 'welcome to duke" and he shook my hand and said he was glad to be here, looking forward to, etc. He then went down the crazie post-game high five line, raucously high fiving the students as he went by. It was great to see him so engaged with the students, and just as good to see the students excited to be engaged with him. Opinions on the outgoing person aside, I think he will bring an energy and excitement that this university may not have seen in some time. I'm looking forward to see how his tenure unfolds, and if my impression of him tonight betrays anything, the university will be great for him, and he will be great for the university.

Welcome to Duke Dr. Price. It seems fitting, if melancholy, that we had to say goodbye to one president while welcoming another. I was moved when Coach K saluted the wreath placed on Brodie's seat after the moment of silence. Clearly it was someone that K had a deep respect for.


Another day, moving closer to being fully healthy!

[lotusland]

Tatum's was almost certainly a calf cramp, judging from the way he was moving when it happened. Not sure what happened with Bolden, since he actually had some of his best plays of the night after he came up limping. I couldn't tell if he was cramping or not. Hopefully nothing serious.

One thing that I've found extremely amusing about some of our garbage time lineups: We often play with 5 bigs on the floor. A few games back, it was Jack White running the point, and for a short stretch in this one, we had Amile as the lead ball handler on the floor, until Nick came in for him.

Many of you guys wrote off Jack as the next Marty Pocius . . . but I think he's proving that he will be a contributor in the rotation in a couple of years. Sure, he hasn't played against the best competition, but he's tough and really gets after loose balls and rebounds. He's also got a good stroke from 3 and from the foul line. Maybe a more athletic Lee Melchionni? We'll see.

More physical than Melchionni too.

[jv001]

Post-game press conference (http://www.goduke.com/mediaPortal/player.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ID=5810272)

I recommend watching it

Thanks for the link. Coach K with some very kind words about Dr. Brodie. While I was listening to Coach, I couldn't help but think of what a difference there is between Coach K and old roy. Our coach is very intelligent and well spoken. Roy is more like Howdy Doody and Clarabell. GoDuke!

[Neals384]

Thanks for the link. Coach K with some very kind words about Dr. Brodie. While I was listening to Coach, I couldn't help but think of what a difference there is between Coach K and old roy. Our coach is very intelligent and well spoken. Roy is more like Howdy Doody and Clarabell. GoDuke!

Whoa. How about a little respect for Howdy and Clara? You can't diss them like that and get away with it;)

[devilnfla]

Bolden is a big athletic kid who is decent around the basket. Probably needs seasoning, but can do some good things for

If believe you are really under estimating Bolden. He is more than decent around the basket. Kid can be a beast.

[flyingdutchdevil]

If believe you are really under estimating Bolden. He is more than decent around the basket. Kid can be a beast.

Will comment more on game tomorrow. But bolden is exactly what this team is missing: a big, scary rim protector who is good at offensive rebounds and easy put backs. This team doesn't have a rim protector. Amile is excellent for 1-and-1 and Jeter is still a liability on D. Bolden provides that support which makes penetration less of an issue.

[Billy Dat]

Tatum and Bolden's return has me so happy that I am a little embarassed at myself.

I know Maine stinks, and it know the line-ups were odd with two of our previosj 6 regular players being out, but these two look like they are going to kick us to the next level, I am thrilled they will be a little broken in before Florida. I hope Grayson and Frank are, too...very very very exciting!!!

[mattman91]

Was at the game today. Maine was as bad as advertised, but number 21 had a great game, especially in the first half. He was the only one on their team that left his politics off the court and came to play basketball.

[uh_no]

Was at the game today. Maine was as bad as advertised, but number 21 had a great game, especially in the first half. He was the only one on their team that left his politics off the court and came to play basketball.

I thought they actually were decent for the 300+ team in the country. they moved without the ball well, made some tough shots, and fought their butts off. They were just physically outmatched....but I would be surprised if they didn't move up the KP rankings as the year goes on.

[Billy Dat]

Post-game press conference (http://www.goduke.com/mediaPortal/player.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ID=5810272)

I recommend watching it

Agree, K begins with a long tribute to H Keith H and I have never heard him speak so lovingly of a non family member or a player. It is well worth your time.

[uh_no]

Agree, K begins with a long tribute to H Keith H and I have never heard him speak so lovingly of a non family member or a player. It is well worth your time.

his accolades for the general are in the same ballpark:


I just told Coach I love him. I wouldn't be in this position without him. It's a moment shared. I know he's very proud, and I'm very proud to have been somebody who's worked under him and studied him and tried to be like him. I'm not sure how many people tell him they love him but I love him for what he's done for me and I thanked him.

[Olympic Fan]

Just a few points:

-- K confirmed postgame that Tatum's problems were cramps. He's good to go Tuesday against Florida.

-- He also said Bolden's only problem was fatigue. He's been sidelined for three weeks and he's got to build his stamina again.

-- He never said what Frank Jackson's problem was, but he said that Jackson should be ready to go Tuesday.

-- He went into depth about Grayson's problem. Said it was like turf toe, only on the side of the toe. It's not dangerous, but it's extremely painful, especially when its hit. He hopes Grayson will play against Florida. He also hopes that Allen will be able to rest the toe enough during exams and Christmas break that he'll be 100 percent by the end of the month.

-- Harry Giles just started 5-on-5 full contact work this week. Because he's been out for over a year, K wants to give him more time to work back into the lineup ... but said he's very close to returning.

As for the game, I thought Tatum actually had more impact defensively and on the boards than offensively. He seemed a bit out of sync offensively and he had several shots roll out. Defensively, he blocked a shot on his first defensive possession, came up with a steal (drawing a foul) on his second and was always bothering passes and shots.

Weird game in that #21 played out of his mind in the first half -- his previous career high was 16 points -- he had 20 at halftime. He hit 4-of-6 3s, including one that banked in after being partially blocked. He didn't score in the second half.

I was amazed how effective Duke's big lineup -- Jefferson at the point with Vrank, DeLaurier and Jeter up front -- was late.

[OZ]

I was amazed how effective Duke's big lineup -- Jefferson at the point with Vrank, DeLaurier and Jeter up front -- was late.


Now, perhaps, the "we don't have a point guard" folks will be able to relax.

[BLPOG]

Thanks for the link. Coach K with some very kind words about Dr. Brodie. While I was listening to Coach, I couldn't help but think of what a difference there is between Coach K and old roy. Our coach is very intelligent and well spoken. Roy is more like Howdy Doody and Clarabell. GoDuke!

I don't wan't to get things too distracted here, but might I ask to whom you refer by "Clarabell?" (In all seriousness, I might be showing my age here; I'm usually better with older cultural references than I am with my own contemporaneous culture, but I think I might be missing something in this case). I ask because while the Clarabell I know was imperfect, she certainly had her heart in the right place...She was an important figure at Duke while I was there. I viewed her as an ally against an antagonistic, university-academia-intelligentsia complex.

(FYI, I kind of prefer no response at all to a discussion on this point, so feel free to ignore. I might have created an issue where there is none. Hell, I'm ready to ask the mods to delete this post entirely if it's questionable from a PPB standpoint. If I did miss the mark, ignore me.)

To make a more Brodie-centric comment, I'd like to say that he is a president whose history I did not know very well. I'm trying to come up with something better that I will post in the Brodie thread. I do have one good story in mind, but to make an analogy with the current team, he kind of seems like the Matt Jones of Duke presidents: around for an important time, but not fully receiving credit for his accomplishments that promoted the success of the team. That's why I think Coach K's comments are so great - they provide a perspective from which to view our team as it emerges.

[El_Diablo]

I don't wan't to get things too distracted here, but might I ask to whom you refer by "Clarabell?" (In all seriousness, I might be showing my age here; I'm usually better with older cultural references than I am with my own contemporaneous culture, but I think I might be missing something in this case). I ask because while the Clarabell I know was imperfect, she certainly had her heart in the right place...She was an important figure at Duke while I was there. I viewed her as an ally against an antagonistic, university-academia-intelligentsia complex.

I do not know what a university-academia-intelligentsia complex is, but Clarabell was just a clown.

[juise]

-- He never said what Frank Jackson's problem was, but he said that Jackson should be ready to go Tuesday.

At the 8:05 mark of the presser linked earlier, K said that Frank has "a little bit of a sore foot."

[Kfan4Life]

This was a really interesting game. Luke Kennard has turned into an absolute beast. Coach K has really got to be exited about the potential of this team at full health. Tatum is extremely aggressive, reminds me of how Nolan Smith came out his Junior year.

[Spanarkel]

Per Coach K: Tatum had cramps in both legs. Said he only practiced 1 1/2 times this week. Didn't say anything about Bolden, because I don't think anyone on staff saw that limp he had for those few seconds. Seriously doubt it was anything major since the next trip down floor he had a dunk. On the radio it seems that K had a set number of mins for both of them to play. He also said that Bolden hadn't practiced at all. So I would imagine that cramps were gonna be inevitable

You saw Bolden's limp, I saw it and Dino Gaudio saw it. Certain that Coach K and several(probably all) of our 4 assistant coaches saw it.

[alteran]

Was at the game today. Maine was as bad as advertised, but number 21 had a great game, especially in the first half. He was the only one on their team that left his politics off the court and came to play basketball.

???

I have no idea what you're talking about. Did they say something about politics pre game or something?

[alteran]

Fun game. Absolutely nutty set of lineups.

It's gonna be fun watching K put this together as a team.

[YmoBeThere]

???

I have no idea what you're talking about. Did they say something about politics pre game or something?

I think it had something to do with pre-game/warmup shirts using a rainbow themed logo.

[dukelifer]

???

I have no idea what you're talking about. Did they say something about politics pre game or something?

Different politics in Turkey

[Indoor66]

I don't wan't to get things too distracted here, but might I ask to whom you refer by "Clarabell?" (In all seriousness, I might be showing my age here; I'm usually better with older cultural references than I am with my own contemporaneous culture, but I think I might be missing something in this case). I ask because while the Clarabell I know was imperfect, she certainly had her heart in the right place...She was an important figure at Duke while I was there. I viewed her as an ally against an antagonistic, university-academia-intelligentsia complex.

(FYI, I kind of prefer no response at all to a discussion on this point, so feel free to ignore. I might have created an issue where there is none. Hell, I'm ready to ask the mods to delete this post entirely if it's questionable from a PPB standpoint. If I did miss the mark, ignore me.)

To make a more Brodie-centric comment, I'd like to say that he is a president whose history I did not know very well. I'm trying to come up with something better that I will post in the Brodie thread. I do have one good story in mind, but to make an analogy with the current team, he kind of seems like the Matt Jones of Duke presidents: around for an important time, but not fully receiving credit for his accomplishments that promoted the success of the team. That's why I think Coach K's comments are so great - they provide a perspective from which to view our team as it emerges.

Clarabell was a caracter on Howdy Doody from the early 50's TV show. He was played by Bob Keeshan who later was better known to you younger ones as Captain Kangaroo.

[davekay1971]

Clarabell was a caracter on Howdy Doody from the early 50's TV show. He was played by Bob Keeshan who later was better known to you younger ones as Captain Kangaroo.

Showing my age (or more accurately the age of my youngest kid), that I immediately thought of the cow in the Disney cartoons with the crush on Goofy. She has a prominent starring role in The Three Mousketeers, and is frequently seen on The Mickey Mouse Clubhouse on Disney Junior. And, I suspect, she'd sound more put together during an interview than does Ol' Roy.

However, I have to say this for Roy. It's reasonably likely that we're now 6 years since his basketball program was propped up by his players having no academic requirements whatsoever, and he's had to recruit against those looming issues. In that setting, he got his team to the sweet-16 two seasons ago (losing a close game to the Wisconsin team that lost to us in the finals), the championship game last season, and has them looking like a final four contender this season. I hate Carolina with tremendous passion, and I'm thankful for many reasons that Roy is not our coach, but I have to give him, begrudgingly, some credit for what he's accomplishing in this 3 year run.

[Indoor66]

Showing my age (or more accurately the age of my youngest kid), that I immediately thought of the cow in the Disney cartoons with the crush on Goofy. She has a prominent starring role in The Three Mousketeers, and is frequently seen on The Mickey Mouse Clubhouse on Disney Junior. And, I suspect, she'd sound more put together during an interview than does Ol' Roy.

However, I have to say this for Roy. It's reasonably likely that we're now 6 years since his basketball program was propped up by his players having no academic requirements whatsoever, and he's had to recruit against those looming issues. In that setting, he got his team to the sweet-16 two seasons ago (losing a close game to the Wisconsin team that lost to us in the finals), the championship game last season, and has them looking like a final four contender this season. I hate Carolina with tremendous passion, and I'm thankful for many reasons that Roy is not our coach, but I have to give him, begrudgingly, some credit for what he's accomplishing in this 3 year run.

I don't disagree with your premise, but you are a might premature with awarding unCheat with a pass to the final four.

[duke74]

Clarabell was a caracter on Howdy Doody from the early 50's TV show. He was played by Bob Keeshan who later was better known to you younger ones as Captain Kangaroo.

And lived in Forest Hills (my 'hood).

In my career at Deloitte, I once worked with his son (an atty) on a litigation consulting matter.

Not to nitpick, but our (very) "younger ones" might not even know Captain Kangaroo. From Wikipedia, it aired weekday mornings on CBS for nearly 30 years, from October 3, 1955 until December 8, 1984. In 1986, the American Program Service (now American Public Television, Boston) integrated some newly produced segments into reruns of past episodes, distributing the newer version of the series until 1993.

Geesh, I feel old. Where have you gone Bunny Rabbit and Mr. Green Jeans, a nation turns its lonely eyes to you. (to paraphrase another FH boy)

[OldPhiKap]

Now, perhaps, the "we don't have a point guard" folks will be able to relax.

Only until the next loss or close game.

[DukieInBrasil]

Just wanted to point out that Nick Pagliuca picked up his first stat of the year, other than missed FGs. He assisted on a basket, so now he has a stat!

[CDu]

Nice to have a complete patsy to play to allow Tatum and Bolden to get their feet wet. Not much to assess from the game for them, as they were clearly rusty, out of synch, and pressing, and the opponent was so overmatched. But it was good to see them out there. Tatum tried a bit of everything (isos, catch-and-shoot, and post-ups), but that might just be the opponent. Bolden was a mopup man and post player as expected.

Obviously an awesome game for Kennard and Jefferson. Both were clearly superior to the opposition, and as such they just abused Maine ad nauseum. Kennard might be the best percentage shooter in the nation from 10-15 feet. When he shoots from that distance - regardless of angle or defense - I expect it to go in. And Jefferson's crafty post game is really blossoming.

Jones seemed content to let Kennard and Jefferson carry the offense. I expect he settles into a catch-and-shoot role full-time once everyone is back.

Jeter was nondescript. A moment or two here and there, but generally quiet.

Vrankovic, DeLaurier, and White each got extended time against an overmatched opponent. Vrank got some "I am bigger than you" baskets and White scored when Maine's zone ignored him on the baseline. But all three continued to look like they will be non-contributors in competitive games this year as expected of the 10th-12th men in the rotation.

[Saratoga2]

Just a few points:

-- K confirmed postgame that Tatum's problems were cramps. He's good to go Tuesday against Florida.

-- He also said Bolden's only problem was fatigue. He's been sidelined for three weeks and he's got to build his stamina again.

-- He never said what Frank Jackson's problem was, but he said that Jackson should be ready to go Tuesday.

-- He went into depth about Grayson's problem. Said it was like turf toe, only on the side of the toe. It's not dangerous, but it's extremely painful, especially when its hit. He hopes Grayson will play against Florida. He also hopes that Allen will be able to rest the toe enough during exams and Christmas break that he'll be 100 percent by the end of the month.

-- Harry Giles just started 5-on-5 full contact work this week. Because he's been out for over a year, K wants to give him more time to work back into the lineup ... but said he's very close to returning.

As for the game, I thought Tatum actually had more impact defensively and on the boards than offensively. He seemed a bit out of sync offensively and he had several shots roll out. Defensively, he blocked a shot on his first defensive possession, came up with a steal (drawing a foul) on his second and was always bothering passes and shots.

Weird game in that #21 played out of his mind in the first half -- his previous career high was 16 points -- he had 20 at halftime. He hit 4-of-6 3s, including one that banked in after being partially blocked. He didn't score in the second half.

I was amazed how effective Duke's big lineup -- Jefferson at the point with Vrank, DeLaurier and Jeter up front -- was late.

I believe coach K said Frank had a sore foot. I am guessing he will return against Florida.

[Ggallagher]

Thanks for the link. Coach K with some very kind words about Dr. Brodie. While I was listening to Coach, I couldn't help but think of what a difference there is between Coach K and old roy. Our coach is very intelligent and well spoken. Roy is more like Howdy Doody and Clarabell. GoDuke!

I know this is a little bit of piling on here, but for someone who can still get a little choked up watching a video of Clarabell saying, "Goodbye Kids" - and REALLY would have liked a chance to get into the Peanut Gallery at least once - you just don't want to be lumping Howdy and Clarabell in with Old Roy.

I'm guessing maybe you didn't spend too much time watching Buffalo Bob and never got a personal letter from Captain Kangaroo - but for those of us for which that's meaningful - Old Roy is the thing that's NOT like the other two.

OK, I'll go get back on my own yard now :)

[CDu]

Many of you guys wrote off Jack as the next Marty Pocius . . . but I think he's proving that he will be a contributor in the rotation in a couple of years. Sure, he hasn't played against the best competition, but he's tough and really gets after loose balls and rebounds. He's also got a good stroke from 3 and from the foul line. Maybe a more athletic Lee Melchionni? We'll see.

I would point out that Pocius was a better player (more highly recruited, did more post-Duke career) than Melchionni, so I find this comment a bit odd. Pocius just had the misfortune of being the third/fourth-best SG on the roster each year behind more highly-recruited players, whereas Melchionni's career fell when we hit that brief stretch of unexpected recruiting blips. Had it been Pocius in the 2002 class and Melchionni in the 2005 class, I doubt you would be suggesting a more athletic Melchionni as an improvement over Pocius.

Having said that, I actually view White as more like a shorter Czyz (also a better recruit and player than Melchionni) than a Pocius. Maybe that aligns with a more athletic Melchionni. And like Czyz and Pocius, I find it unlikely that he will find consistent minutes at Duke. I think we will be bringing in enough talent each year that he will constantly fall in that 9th-12th man spot. Maybe if we have some more recruiting blips he will see more time. But next year we will likely have Kennard, Trent, O'Connell, a smaller guard or two (Jackson, Duval, Coleman as possibilities there), and DeLaurier ahead of White at the guard and forward spots, leaving limited minutes there. I am sure that the following class will have some more competition too. So I think the wing minutes are going to be crowded for a while.

It isn't that I think White is a bad player. Far from it. It is just that - like Czyz - he doesn't seem to me like the caliber of player that will see playing time at Duke unless our recruiting hits a brief rough patch. Nothing about what he did yesterday or throughout this season has changed my view on that.

[Bob Green]

Jeter was nondescript. A moment or two here and there, but generally quiet...Vrank got some "I am bigger than you" baskets...

It appears Vrankovic has a higher offensive upside than Jeter.

[BluDvlsN1]

Post-game press conference (http://www.goduke.com/mediaPortal/player.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ID=5810272)

I recommend watching it

Thanks for the link and the heads up, instant classic.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Nice to have a complete patsy to play to allow Tatum and Bolden to get their feet wet. Not much to assess from the game for them, as they were clearly rusty, out of synch, and pressing, and the opponent was so overmatched. But it was good to see them out there. Tatum tried a bit of everything (isos, catch-and-shoot, and post-ups), but that might just be the opponent. Bolden was a mopup man and post player as expected.

Obviously an awesome game for Kennard and Jefferson. Both were clearly superior to the opposition, and as such they just abused Maine ad nauseum. Kennard might be the best percentage shooter in the nation from 10-15 feet. When he shoots from that distance - regardless of angle or defense - I expect it to go in. And Jefferson's crafty post game is really blossoming.

Jones seemed content to let Kennard and Jefferson carry the offense. I expect he settles into a catch-and-shoot role full-time once everyone is back.

Jeter was nondescript. A moment or two here and there, but generally quiet.

Vrankovic, DeLaurier, and White each got extended time against an overmatched opponent. Vrank got some "I am bigger than you" baskets and White scored when Maine's zone ignored him on the baseline. But all three continued to look like they will be non-contributors in competitive games this year as expected of the 10th-12th men in the rotation.

Excellent summary. My points exactly. Would like to add an additional 2 cents...

1) As you mentioned, Jones was happy to defer scoring. I think this is the new norm moving forward. With Amile, Grayson,Jackson, Kennard, and Tatum, you have 5 players that can score in iso. Has Coach K ever had that before? It's crazy stupid the offensive talent on this team.

2) I am excited about Tatum, but this team really needs a Bolden, i.e. a rim protector when fast guards get passed out semi-slow footed guards. He will be all over the place on D, and I expect that to translate to plenty of blocks and modified shots. I don't think Bolden will get defensive rebounds because of this (thanks Amile!!!) but he'll get plenty of offensive rebounds.

3) Amile coming back was huge. Outside of a healthy Giles, there isn't anyone who can do what he does.

4) Kennard. My god. I understand Maine was overmatched, but Kennard hit every mid range. That ain't easy even against bad competition.

5) with Tatum and Bolden back, we can wait on Giles. I'm so content now with this team.

[Spanarkel]

And lived in Forest Hills (my 'hood).

In my career at Deloitte, I once worked with his son (an atty) on a litigation consulting matter.

Not to nitpick, but our (very) "younger ones" might not even know Captain Kangaroo. From Wikipedia, it aired weekday mornings on CBS for nearly 30 years, from October 3, 1955 until December 8, 1984. In 1986, the American Program Service (now American Public Television, Boston) integrated some newly produced segments into reruns of past episodes, distributing the newer version of the series until 1993.

Geesh, I feel old. Where have you gone Bunny Rabbit and Mr. Green Jeans, a nation turns its lonely eyes to you. (to paraphrase another FH boy)



Just curious, did you ever get to play hoops with Ernie Grunfeld, though he was 3 classes behind you?

[jimsumner]

You probably couldn't tell from watching on TV, but periodically Maine players would stop during the action and discuss the hurtful impact of micro-aggressions in a post-modern world.

Just killed them on the glass.

Or perhaps, they were just a mediocre low-major team missing several of their best players due to injury.

Depends on what you're looking for, I suppose.

[uh_no]

It appears Vrankovic has a higher offensive upside than Jeter.

I fear with the introduction of tatum and bolden, the impending introduction of giles, and the impending return grayson and frank, that we've seen the majority of both vrank and jeter's minutes this year. It's clear to see however, that jeter is making great progress, but with the rest of the talent that we'll be able to bring to the floor, I don't see how jeter's ceiling can be more than 5-10 minutes moving forward.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I fear with the introduction of tatum and bolden, the impending introduction of giles, and the impending return grayson and frank, that we've seen the majority of both vrank and jeter's minutes this year. It's clear to see however, that jeter is making great progress, but with the rest of the talent that we'll be able to bring to the floor, I don't see how jeter's ceiling can be more than 5-10 minutes moving forward.

Somewhat agree. Have you seen our schedule from now until the start of ACC play? It's gawd awful in terms of opponent talent minus FL on Tuesday. So I expect jeter, vrank, white, and delaurier to get plenty of minutes.

[uh_no]

Somewhat agree. Have you seen our schedule from now until the start of ACC play? It's gawd awful in terms of opponent talent minus FL on Tuesday. So I expect jeter, vrank, white, and delaurier to get plenty of minutes.

I think it speaks more to the amount of minutes I think he'll get in ACC play than in the couple cupcakes we have left.

[Olympic Fan]

You saw Bolden's limp, I saw it and Dino Gaudio saw it. Certain that Coach K and several(probably all) of our 4 assistant coaches saw it.

Actually, I'm sure Coach K saw it ... Bolden showed a little limp after the first of his two impressive put-backs in the second half. Before he even got to midcourt, K had Vrankovic up and headed for the scorer's table. But play continued and the next offensive possession, Bolden had his second put-back in a row. He even came down on another possession and made a post move before played stopped and Vrankovic replaced him.

The fact that he kept playing well ... and that K didn't stop the game to get him out seems to indicate that the slight limp was not a real problem.

[NSDukeFan]

I fear with the introduction of tatum and bolden, the impending introduction of giles, and the impending return grayson and frank, that we've seen the majority of both vrank and jeter's minutes this year. It's clear to see however, that jeter is making great progress, but with the rest of the talent that we'll be able to bring to the floor, I don't see how jeter's ceiling can be more than 5-10 minutes moving forward.

That's a minor fear, though they should all benefit from competitive practices. I am having trouble focusing much on that fear with all the giddiness I am feeling about the full team almost all ready to go (even though I generally like to see the end of the bench guys get minutes).

[BandAlum83]

Somewhat agree. Have you seen our schedule from now until the start of ACC play? It's gawd awful in terms of opponent talent minus FL on Tuesday. So I expect jeter, vrank, white, and delaurier to get plenty of minutes.

Not sure about that. The games coming up can be great opportunities for the freshmen to get back to game shape (including Giles), and for the team to work on lineups, spacing, communication and learning how each other plays.

I would think the regular rotation could settle to all of the above getting more than 12 minutes per game:

Amile
Grayson
Luke
Matt
Jayson
Marquis
Harry
Frank

Until Harry is available, Jeter probably replaces him on that list, but I see the above as the rotation for the future.Minutes will depend on matchups and who is most effective and feeling it on any given night. I can totally believe K would move from a preferred 7 man to an eight man rotation, but can't see him going to 9.

[devildeac]

Excellent summary. My points exactly. Would like to add an additional 2 cents...

1) As you mentioned, Jones was happy to defer scoring. I think this is the new norm moving forward. With Amile, Grayson,Jackson, Kennard, and Tatum, you have 5 players that can score in iso. Has Coach K ever had that before? It's crazy stupid the offensive talent on this team.

2) I am excited about Tatum, but this team really needs a Bolden, i.e. a rim protector when fast guards get passed out semi-slow footed guards. He will be all over the place on D, and I expect that to translate to plenty of blocks and modified shots. I don't think Bolden will get defensive rebounds because of this (thanks Amile!!!) but he'll get plenty of offensive rebounds.

3) Amile coming back was huge. Outside of a healthy Giles, there isn't anyone who can do what he does.

4) Kennard. My god. I understand Maine was overmatched, but Kennard hit every mid range. That ain't easy even against bad competition.

5) with Tatum and Bolden back, we can wait on Giles. I'm so content now with this team.

Granted our guards may be a bit slow-footed but they are conscious (sorry, some typos clamor for a response ;)). Carry on. Nice analysis.

[OldPhiKap]

You probably couldn't tell from watching on TV, but periodically Maine players would stop during the action and discuss the hurtful impact of micro-aggressions in a post-modern world.

Just killed them on the glass.

Or perhaps, they were just a mediocre low-major team missing several of their best players due to injury.

Depends on what you're looking for, I suppose.

I find it appalling that Duke does not provide a safe space for visiting teams, and bans emotional support animals.

[Faison1]

Post-game press conference (http://www.goduke.com/mediaPortal/player.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ID=5810272)

I recommend watching it

Thanks for the link. I just forwarded it to my Dad. He said Brodie came from the Psychiatry Department. The description by Coach K of Brodie in a torn sweater and high-riding pants actually reminds me of my father, who also came from the Duke MD Center.

I guess they not only teach medicine, but proper attire as well.

[evrim]

Was at the game today. Maine was as bad as advertised, but number 21 had a great game, especially in the first half. He was the only one on their team that left his politics off the court and came to play basketball.

That is kind of funny in a way because his twitter mentions clearly his support for an outlawed Islamic organization in Turkey. The Hizmet / FETO organization.

He scored zero points in the second half.

[Edouble]

You probably couldn't tell from watching on TV, but periodically Maine players would stop during the action and discuss the hurtful impact of micro-aggressions in a post-modern world.

Just killed them on the glass.

Or perhaps, they were just a mediocre low-major team missing several of their best players due to injury.

Depends on what you're looking for, I suppose.


I find it appalling that Duke does not provide a safe space for visiting teams, and bans emotional support animals.

Are y'all joking about their warmup shirts? I feel like I am missing something that I don't quite "get". :confused:

[mattman91]

Are y'all joking about their warmup shirts? I feel like I am missing something that I don't quite "get". :confused:

I think they are saying that some of the Maine players may have been "triggered" before the game.

[OldPhiKap]

Are y'all joking about their warmup shirts? I feel like I am missing something that I don't quite "get". :confused:

I like their warm-up shirts and applaud their effort. The coach also said that the team met with a Duke student group before the game to discuss the impact of HB2, and the coach thought the whole thing was a great learning experience for his kids. He also applauded Duke's position against HB2 as well.

As for the posts, I cannot speak for Jim. I am just poking fun at the ridiculously soft culture that seems to exist in some areas of academia these days.

[Edouble]

I think they are saying that some of the Maine players may have been "triggered" before the game.

"Triggered before the game" makes me think that they were taking tequila shots or something in the warmup lines.

[Indoor66]

I know this is a little bit of piling on here, but for someone who can still get a little choked up watching a video of Clarabell saying, "Goodbye Kids" - and REALLY would have liked a chance to get into the Peanut Gallery at least once - you just don't want to be lumping Howdy and Clarabell in with Old Roy.

I'm guessing maybe you didn't spend too much time watching Buffalo Bob and never got a personal letter from Captain Kangaroo - but for those of us for which that's meaningful - Old Roy is the thing that's NOT like the other two.

OK, I'll go get back on my own yard now :)

And we all had a crush on Princess SummerFallWinterSpring.

[mgtr]

"Triggered before the game" makes me think that they were taking tequila shots or something in the warmup lines.

Ha! Are there random drug tests on BB players in Division?

[NashvilleDevil]

Was glad to see Bolden and Tatum out there. Perfect opponent to get them some reps. Both kids looked like they were going on pure basketball instincts and they still contributed. I cannot wait until these two, along with Giles, start practicing and they are doing this within the offense. I think giving players rest at this point of the year is wise. Will be interested to see if K will do that when Duke is facing a weaker conference opponent.

[Steven43]

Will comment more on game tomorrow. But bolden is exactly what this team is missing: a big, scary rim protector who is good at offensive rebounds and easy put backs. This team doesn't have a rim protector. Amile is excellent for 1-and-1 and Jeter is still a liability on D. Bolden provides that support which makes penetration less of an issue.

Bolden is the type of intimidating forceful monster in the middle that I have been praying for Duke to get for, well.......FOREVER. I don't recall Duke ever having a player quite like him.

I even liked the play where he got the ball about 10 feet from the basket and just tried to brutally and blatantly bull his way to the rim RIGHT THROUGH anyone or anything in his path. Yes, it lead to an obvious offensive foul call, but I absolutely love his aggressive mentality. I was sitting two rows behind the Maine bench and could literally hear the sound of him smashing into people. I have a feeling Mr. Bolden is going to be the X factor that pushes Duke over the top.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Bolden is the type of intimidating forceful monster in the middle that I have been praying for Duke to get for, well....FOREVER. I don't recall Duke ever having a player quite like him.


Elton Brand says hello.

[Steven43]

Elton Brand says hello.

Nope. Obviously I too thought of Brand, but he is not tall enough to compare size-wise with Bolden. The first article I looked up about Brand stated "at 6’8, Brand is UNDERSIZED as an NBA power forward, but has made up for it with a giant wingspan that measures 7’5".

[Faison1]

Nope. Obviously I too thought of Brand, but he is not tall enough to compare size-wise with Bolden. The first article I looked up about Brand stated "at 6’8, Brand is UNDERSIZED as an NBA power forward, but has made up for it with a giant wingspan that measures 7’5".

If Bolden comes anywhere close to The Landlord's single season Block numbers, I will be impressed.

And I will add, if there is anyone as intimidating as Elton Brand, I will be really surprised. That guy had so much game, skill, and power packed into 6'8......I'd rank him as one of the top 10 best college ball players in the last 15 years. If he would have stayed for 4 years at Duke, he would have been more immortalized than he already is.

Behind Grant Hill, he is my favorite all-time player at Duke.

[NashvilleDevil]

Nope. Obviously I too thought of Brand, but he is not tall enough to compare size-wise with Bolden. The first article I looked up about Brand stated "at 6’8, Brand is UNDERSIZED as an NBA power forward, but has made up for it with a giant wingspan that measures 7’5".

There was a kid from Oklahoma who came to Durham. He was quite the intimidating presence so much so that the refs thought it was necessary to foul him out against UConn in 2004. I believe he ended up blocking the most shots in Duke history. His name was Sheldon or Shelden something. He's married to Candace Parker that much I know.

[Dukehky]

I would point out that Pocius was a better player (more highly recruited, did more post-Duke career) than Melchionni, so I find this comment a bit odd. Pocius just had the misfortune of being the third/fourth-best SG on the roster each year behind more highly-recruited players, whereas Melchionni's career fell when we hit that brief stretch of unexpected recruiting blips. Had it been Pocius in the 2002 class and Melchionni in the 2005 class, I doubt you would be suggesting a more athletic Melchionni as an improvement over Pocius.

Having said that, I actually view White as more like a shorter Czyz (also a better recruit and player than Melchionni) than a Pocius. Maybe that aligns with a more athletic Melchionni. And like Czyz and Pocius, I find it unlikely that he will find consistent minutes at Duke. I think we will be bringing in enough talent each year that he will constantly fall in that 9th-12th man spot. Maybe if we have some more recruiting blips he will see more time. But next year we will likely have Kennard, Trent, O'Connell, a smaller guard or two (Jackson, Duval, Coleman as possibilities there), and DeLaurier ahead of White at the guard and forward spots, leaving limited minutes there. I am sure that the following class will have some more competition too. So I think the wing minutes are going to be crowded for a while.

It isn't that I think White is a bad player. Far from it. It is just that - like Czyz - he doesn't seem to me like the caliber of player that will see playing time at Duke unless our recruiting hits a brief rough patch. Nothing about what he did yesterday or throughout this season has changed my view on that.



CDu, respectfully, and I really mean that since I enjoy reading what you post in probably every circumstance, this Czyz comparison is utter nonsense.

Olek could not, and still does know how to play basketball. He was just a freak that Duke took a flyer on because we were at the tail end of that recruiting lull. He was 6'7 (same as Jack is listed by Duke), couldn't dribble or shoot. Jack White knows how to play basketball, he uses his size and athleticism to go hard after literally every rebound, his ball handling is solid (not great, but at least its better than Pags') and when he gets an open shot, I think it's going in. They are not anywhere near the same type of player, and I think Jack is already better than Olek was until that last year at Nevada.

Do I think that he's going to play Melchionni level minutes? Probably not because as you said, it's unlikely we hit a recruiting patch in the wing where he would be the best option. But I like Jack White, and I think he is setting himself up to be more of a contributor than Marty ever was.

All in all, color me optimistic on the prospects of Jack's contributions to Duke basketball in the future.

[azzefkram]

Kennard might be the best percentage shooter in the nation from 10-15 feet. When he shoots from that distance - regardless of angle or defense - I expect it to go in.

According to Hoop-Math, Kennard is shooting 61.5% on 2pt Js which is insane. Most other sites combine jump shots and at the rim, so I'm not sure how he stacks up nationally. I almost feel better when he shoots a 2pt jumper than when he shoots a three.

[juise]

According to Hoop-Math, Kennard is shooting 61.5% on 2pt Js which is insane. Most other sites combine jump shots and at the rim, so I'm not sure how he stacks up nationally. I almost feel better when he shoots a 2pt jumper than when he shoots a three.

Well, statistically, you should feel better. Based on the stat you cited, the expected outcome of a 2-pt J is 1.23pts. The expected outcome of a 3 (37%) is 1.11pts. For now, the 2 is the better play. It is worth noting that his 3 percentage is greatly skewed by an tough 3-game stretch (W&M-MSU) where he shot 3-20 from 3 (15%).

[gam7]

Was glad to see Bolden and Tatum out there. Perfect opponent to get them some reps. Both kids looked like they were going on pure basketball instincts and they still contributed. I cannot wait until these two, along with Giles, start practicing and they are doing this within the offense. I think giving players rest at this point of the year is wise. Will be interested to see if K will do that when Duke is facing a weaker conference opponent.

I am going to assume that by "rest," you man "an opportunity to heal legitimate injuries against clearly overmatched opponents." If you are saying that you like the idea of putting guys on the shelf in bubble wrap for any other reason at this point in the year (or any other time of the year), I wholeheartedly disagree, and I think Coach K does too. One of the dozen or so reasons not to do that is that guys need to learn how to play through fatigue. In 2015, Coach K talked about how the team's biggest opponent in many games was human nature. It is human nature to lose some focus and be undisciplined when you are up by a lot of points or are tired. It takes experience to learn how to overcome human nature. And getting that experience requires playing through situations where you are likely to succumb to human nature and making guys aware of it. Add to that the fact that chemistry (especially on defense) requires rep after rep after rep in competitive situations and the fact that in this day and age we have basically 50% roster turnover every year, and there is no way we are sitting guys solely to get rest.

[WWBD]

I am going to assume that by "rest," you man "an opportunity to heal legitimate injuries against clearly overmatched opponents." If you are saying that you like the idea of putting guys on the shelf in bubble wrap for any other reason at this point in the year (or any other time of the year), I wholeheartedly disagree, and I think Coach K does too. One of the dozen or so reasons not to do that is that guys need to learn how to play through fatigue. In 2015, Coach K talked about how the team's biggest opponent in many games was human nature. It is human nature to lose some focus and be undisciplined when you are up by a lot of points or are tired. It takes experience to learn how to overcome human nature. And getting that experience requires playing through situations where you are likely to succumb to human nature and making guys aware of it. Add to that the fact that chemistry (especially on defense) requires rep after rep after rep in competitive situations and the fact that in this day and age we have basically 50% roster turnover every year, and there is no way we are sitting guys solely to get rest.

While I do think that K believes in the "reps" you talk about as being necessary in the one-and-done era, I also think he has acknowledged he's open to new systems to try and protect his players' health. That includes different training, practices, and game lineups. One of K's great, great qualities is his willingness to learn and adapt.

[Steven43]

If Bolden comes anywhere close to The Landlord's single season Block numbers, I will be impressed.

And I will add, if there is anyone as intimidating as Elton Brand, I will be really surprised. That guy had so much game, skill, and power packed into 6'8...I'd rank him as one of the top 10 best college ball players in the last 15 years. If he would have stayed for 4 years at Duke, he would have been more immortalized than he already is.

Behind Grant Hill, he is my favorite all-time player at Duke.
No one here is slighting Brand. That's not what this is about. And my argument was not specifically about blocking shots, either. You can block shots without being a particularly intimidating presence. And by the way, Williams is 6'9". There is a real difference between 6'11" (Bolden) and 6'9". Two inches might not seem like much, but it can matter in this sport.

And I was not just talking about height only, but a combination of height, bulk, playing style, aggressiveness and physicality. But whatever. If you guys want to make the point that Duke has had other players with the same intimidating physical presence as Bolden, that's fine.

[DukieInBrasil]

No one here is slighting Brand. That's not what this is about. And my argument was not specifically about blocking shots, either. You can block shots without being a particularly intimidating presence. And by the way, Williams is 6'9". There is a real difference between 6'11" (Bolden) and 6'9". Two inches might not seem like much, but it can matter in this sport.

And I was not just talking about height only, but a combination of height, bulk, playing style, aggressiveness and physicality. But whatever. If you guys want to make the point that Duke has had other players with the same intimidating physical presence as Bolden, that's fine.

isn't the point you were making that Duke hasn't had someone like that since you can remember?

[NSDukeFan]

CDu, respectfully, and I really mean that since I enjoy reading what you post in probably every circumstance, this Czyz comparison is utter nonsense.

Olek could not, and still does know how to play basketball. He was just a freak that Duke took a flyer on because we were at the tail end of that recruiting lull. He was 6'7 (same as Jack is listed by Duke), couldn't dribble or shoot. Jack White knows how to play basketball, he uses his size and athleticism to go hard after literally every rebound, his ball handling is solid (not great, but at least its better than Pags') and when he gets an open shot, I think it's going in. They are not anywhere near the same type of player, and I think Jack is already better than Olek was until that last year at Nevada.

Do I think that he's going to play Melchionni level minutes? Probably not because as you said, it's unlikely we hit a recruiting patch in the wing where he would be the best option. But I like Jack White, and I think he is setting himself up to be more of a contributor than Marty ever was.

All in all, color me optimistic on the prospects of Jack's contributions to Duke basketball in the future.
That seems a bit harsh for a guy who was all-conference at Nevada, has been on some NBA summer league teams and has been playing professionally since he graduated. I feel like I know how to play basketball, can dribble and shoot and never came anywhere near the basketball success that Olek has had. I hope Jack can be a contributor in the future, but right now he looks to me like a poor man's Alex Murphy ( who I really liked and was hoping would stick around and eventually be a contributor). I hope he keeps taking advantage of the chances he gets and develops into a rotation player during his time at Duke.

[NSDukeFan]

No one here is slighting Brand. That's not what this is about. And my argument was not specifically about blocking shots, either. You can block shots without being a particularly intimidating presence. And by the way, Williams is 6'9". There is a real difference between 6'11" (Bolden) and 6'9". Two inches might not seem like much, but it can matter in this sport.

And I was not just talking about height only, but a combination of height, bulk, playing style, aggressiveness and physicality. But whatever. If you guys want to make the point that Duke has had other players with the same intimidating physical presence as Bolden, that's fine.

I thought Zoubek was a great intimidating presence. I would love, but don't expect Bolden to be a defensive presence like Zoubek was when he stayed out of foul trouble his senior year.

[arnie]

CDu, respectfully, and I really mean that since I enjoy reading what you post in probably every circumstance, this Czyz comparison is utter nonsense.

Olek could not, and still does know how to play basketball. He was just a freak that Duke took a flyer on because we were at the tail end of that recruiting lull. He was 6'7 (same as Jack is listed by Duke), couldn't dribble

Unfair and ridiculous description of Czyz. He made all conference in the WAC his senior year for the Wolf Pack. I question if Jack White would do the same if he had the opportunity.

[Kedsy]

But next year we will likely have Kennard, Trent, O'Connell, a smaller guard or two (Jackson, Duval, Coleman as possibilities there), and DeLaurier ahead of White at the guard and forward spots, leaving limited minutes there.

Alex O'Connell is ranked #61 in the summer RSCI. I don't think it's anywhere close to a lock that a freshman O'Connell would play ahead of a sophomore White.


It appears Vrankovic has a higher offensive upside than Jeter.

I don't necessarily agree. Antonio is obviously taller than Chase and knows how to use his big body against smaller, overmatched defenders, but I think Chase has made huge progress since last season, is a lot springier than Antonio and appears to have a more advanced offensive repertoire than Antonio at this point in time.


That guy [Elton Brand] had so much game, skill, and power packed into 6'8...I'd rank him as one of the top 10 best college ball players in the last 15 years.

Not to nitpick too severely, but Elton Brand stopped being a college basketball player 17.5 years ago.

[duke74]

Just curious, did you ever get to play hoops with Ernie Grunfeld, though he was 3 classes behind you?

A few times at a local gym - "Lost Battalion Hall." Used to play Saturday morning pick-ups. He'd occasionally stop by if I remember correctly.

I played for my prep school (Kew-Forest), but he was a star of course at Forest Hills High School. I was no near his league. (I was a 5'10" power forward - yikes - although we didn't use those terms then.)

[Faison1]

Not to nitpick too severely, but Elton Brand stopped being a college basketball player 17.5 years ago.

Yep...I realized that before I wrote it...but I like round numbers. And 17 rounds down to 15. But we can round up to 20, and I will still say he was one of the top 10 best players in college ball.

Maybe I should say top 15.

[sagegrouse]

I don't disagree with your premise, but you are a might premature with awarding unCheat with a pass to the final four.

In line with previous posts on the Howdy Doody Show, let me dub UNC Athletics as "Crabby Appleton, rotten to the core."

[FadedTackyShirt]

Not sure about that. The games coming up can be great opportunities for the freshmen to get back to game shape (including Giles), and for the team to work on lineups, spacing, communication and learning how each other plays.

I would think the regular rotation could settle to all of the above getting more than 12 minutes per game:

Amile
Grayson
Luke
Matt
Jayson
Marquis
Harry
Frank

Until Harry is available, Jeter probably replaces him on that list, but I see the above as the rotation for the future.Minutes will depend on matchups and who is most effective and feeling it on any given night. I can totally believe K would move from a preferred 7 man to an eight man rotation, but can't see him going to 9.

Still have a minor quibble with K using all 13 schollys on fully recruited players rather than rewarding a few walk ons. Slightly bummed that none of Javin, Vrank, and White will redshirt this season. A deep talented team is hardly a bad thing and injuries aren't planned, but all three appear to have enough upside to contribute as upperclassmen.

[CDu]

Alex O'Connell is ranked #61 in the summer RSCI. I don't think it's anywhere close to a lock that a freshman O'Connell would play ahead of a sophomore White.

And White was not ranked. I see no reason to assume he will play ahead of O'Connell just because he is a year older. He certainly hasn't done anything to suggest he should be competing for rotation minutes next year.

[Dukehky]

That seems a bit harsh for a guy who was all-conference at Nevada, has been on some NBA summer league teams and has been playing professionally since he graduated. I feel like I know how to play basketball, can dribble and shoot and never came anywhere near the basketball success that Olek has had. I hope Jack can be a contributor in the future, but right now he looks to me like a poor man's Alex Murphy ( who I really liked and was hoping would stick around and eventually be a contributor). I hope he keeps taking advantage of the chances he gets and develops into a rotation player during his time at Duke.

Way too harsh on Olek.

When he arrived in Durham, he was nowhere near the player that I think Jack already is. He was recruited as a major project since he hadn't played long but was an incredible athlete.

Still does not know how to play also way too harsh, I was trying to suggest that Jack is a smart basketball player, while the last I saw of Olek, which was admittedly at Nevada, was pretty reliant on his freakishness, rather than on honed skills and knowledge of where to be. If the stats suggest otherwise for him at Nevada, no need to look them up, I'll stand corrected.

[Tripping William]

Way too harsh on Olek.

When he arrived in Durham, he was nowhere near the player that I think Jack already is. He was recruited as a major project since he hadn't played long but was an incredible athlete.

Still does not know how to play also way too harsh, I was trying to suggest that Jack is a smart basketball player, while the last I saw of Olek, which was admittedly at Nevada, was pretty reliant on his freakishness, rather than on honed skills and knowledge of where to be. If the stats suggest otherwise for him at Nevada, no need to look them up, I'll stand corrected.

In Reno, I'm guessing Olek was The Cyzt. :o

(I'm curious if this gets past the wanker-filter.)

[jimsumner]

In case anyone missed the sarcasm, I was making fun of the idea the Maine's pregame protest of HB2 somehow carried over to their game performance.

While I'm here, Olek Czyz turned into a decent player, Marques Bolden has a chance to be one of a number of talented big men at Duke and Jack White could possibly match the 716 and 717 minutes Lee Melchionni notched in his final two seasons at Duke at the end of a recruiting slump that saw Duke with only eight prep All-Americans his 32-4 senior year.

And Washington is getting ready to gag away another winnable game.

[kshepinthehouse]

Alex O'Connell is ranked #61 in the summer RSCI. I don't think it's anywhere close to a lock that a freshman O'Connell would play ahead of a sophomore White.



I don't necessarily agree. Antonio is obviously taller than Chase and knows how to use his big body against smaller, overmatched defenders, but I think Chase has made huge progress since last season, is a lot springier than Antonio and appears to have a more advanced offensive repertoire than Antonio at this point in time.



Not to nitpick too severely, but Elton Brand stopped being a college basketball player 17.5 years ago.

I think one thing Vrank has over Jeter is touch. Seems to have a better feel around the rim. Jeter seems kind of spastic at this point in his career and it seems Vrank is a little more calm.

[TKG]

Not to nitpick too severely, but Elton Brand stopped being a college basketball player 17.5 years ago.

Damn, Kedsy, like I needed another reminder that I am old!!!!!

[UrinalCake]

Tough game to make much sense out of. We had two healthy guards playing (unless you want to count Tatum or White as a guard), were integrating two new players into the lineup, and were facing a completely overmatched opponent. To their credit, I think Maine played hard and made some really nice individual plays. They hung around as long as could be expected, but had no chance in this one.

Matt Jones looked like he had been instructed by the coaching staff not to shoot. He wasn't even remotely looking for his shot for most of the game. He finally did take and hit a three, but you wonder how much was a lack of confidence after his last game and how much was just him wanting to give the young guys their opportunities.

Tatum was of course rusty but showed glimpses of his talent - he took and missed a turnaround fadeaway jumper that is kind of his signature and which he will probably hit a ton of this season as it is nearly impossible to guard. He hit a three, which was nice to see. And whenever he secured a defensive rebound he looked to run straight down the court and at the basket, which worked fine in this game but I think against better opponents he'll need to make some better decisions. Some of those drives looked like a charge or a turnover waiting to happen. Defensively I thought he did a pretty good job of staying in front of the smaller (and presumably quicker) guards, so that was definitely a positive sign.

Bolden is a physical specimen but still very raw. Will be interesting to watch him develop this season. I do think he will replace Jeter in the lineup fairly quickly, He looked better than him THIS GAME without hardly practicing at all, but both players will have their moments.

All in all the biggest thing was just getting two of our freshmen healthy and getting them some reps. I know people say that Championships aren't won in November, but I kind of disagree - we want these guys to develop over the course of an entire season and that timeline has already been cut short.

[DukieInBrasil]

I don't necessarily agree. Antonio is obviously taller than Chase and knows how to use his big body against smaller, overmatched defenders, but I think Chase has made huge progress since last season, is a lot springier than Antonio and appears to have a more advanced offensive repertoire than Antonio at this point in time.


In the same game against the same overmatched defenders, Chase grabbed 1 reb in 24 minutes, Vrank grabbed 3 in 13 mins. Similarly with scoring, Chase scored 4 Vrank had 8. Vrank's rebounding rate is almost double that of Chase. Vrank's FG% is much better than Chase and his FT% is marginally better. The only area where Chase is better is blocked shots, but his block rate is only marginally better than Vrank's. I don't see where Chase is better than Vrank.

[JTaylor]

I think one thing Vrank has over Jeter is touch. Seems to have a better feel around the rim. Jeter seems kind of spastic at this point in his career and it seems Vrank is a little more calm.

Chase reminds me a bit of Casey Sanders, a guy I kept thinking would become more offensively useful than he ever did and always seemed a little spastic around the bucket.

[Neals384]

In line with previous posts on the Howdy Doody Show, let me dub UNC Athletics as "Crabby Appleton, rotten to the core."

My name is Crabby Appleton,
and I am simply awful.
It does my heart a lot of good
to do a deed unlawful!

[Steven43]

Matt Jones looked like he had been instructed by the coaching staff not to shoot. He wasn't even remotely looking for his shot for most of the game. He finally did take and hit a three, but you wonder how much was a lack of confidence after his last game and how much was just him wanting to give the young guys their opportunities.
I have a huge amount of newfound respect for Matt Jones after this game. I lost count of how many times he passed to a teammate when he could easily have taken a shot or tried to drive. I don't think he lacked confidence in his shot as much as he felt a better opportunity could be had by passing. What a selfless player. Jones doesn't appear to care a whit about personal stats. He cares about W's. Duke is lucky to have him.

[WWBD]

I have a huge amount of newfound respect for Matt Jones after this game. I lost count of how many times he passed to a teammate when he could easily have taken a shot or tried to drive. I don't think he lacked confidence in his shot as much as he felt a better opportunity could be had by passing. What a selfless player. Jones doesn't appear to care a whit about personal stats. He cares about W's. Duke is lucky to have him.

Totally agree with you. If anything Jones becomes even more useful with greater team depth. We have like 4 or 5 alpha dogs on this team. Helps to have a guy like Matt grease the offensive wheels a bit.

[MChambers]

I have a huge amount of newfound respect for Matt Jones after this game. I lost count of how many times he passed to a teammate when he could easily have taken a shot or tried to drive. I don't think he lacked confidence in his shot as much as he felt a better opportunity could be had by passing. What a selfless player. Jones doesn't appear to care a whit about personal stats. He cares about W's. Duke is lucky to have him.

My respect isn't newfound, but I otherwise agree. I feel the same way about Amile. This team is very lucky to have two senior captains who are all about winning.

[Spanarkel]

A few times at a local gym - "Lost Battalion Hall." Used to play Saturday morning pick-ups. He'd occasionally stop by if I remember correctly.

I played for my prep school (Kew-Forest), but he was a star of course at Forest Hills High School. I was no near his league. (I was a 5'10" power forward - yikes - although we didn't use those terms then.)




Good memories. Growing up, I idolized Grunfeld's play at Tennessee. Like S+G said in "Old Friends," "Preserve your memories/they're all that's left you."

[flyingdutchdevil]

My respect isn't newfound, but I otherwise agree. I feel the same way about Amile. This team is very lucky to have two senior captains who are all about winning.

I don't put Matt and Amile in the same offensive camp, which is what the OP was initially getting at. We want Amile to shoot. We want Amile to go iso. We want Amile to be aggressive on that end.

With Matt, he is better as a) a playmaker and b) a spot-up shooter when there is no one around him. With Amile, Grayson, Jackson, Tatum, and Kennard, Duke doesn't need more players who can create offense. Which is why Matt's role as a facilitator and opportunistic scorer helps this team so much.

Lastly, your point about two senior captains is spot on. Absolutely love what this team is becoming.

[NashvilleDevil]

I am going to assume that by "rest," you man "an opportunity to heal legitimate injuries against clearly overmatched opponents." If you are saying that you like the idea of putting guys on the shelf in bubble wrap for any other reason at this point in the year (or any other time of the year), I wholeheartedly disagree, and I think Coach K does too. One of the dozen or so reasons not to do that is that guys need to learn how to play through fatigue. In 2015, Coach K talked about how the team's biggest opponent in many games was human nature. It is human nature to lose some focus and be undisciplined when you are up by a lot of points or are tired. It takes experience to learn how to overcome human nature. And getting that experience requires playing through situations where you are likely to succumb to human nature and making guys aware of it. Add to that the fact that chemistry (especially on defense) requires rep after rep after rep in competitive situations and the fact that in this day and age we have basically 50% roster turnover every year, and there is no way we are sitting guys solely to get rest.

Yes I meant rest in the sense they were not needed against Maine and could recover from injuries.

[Edouble]

Still have a minor quibble with K using all 13 schollys on fully recruited players rather than rewarding a few walk ons. Slightly bummed that none of Javin, Vrank, and White will redshirt this season. A deep talented team is hardly a bad thing and injuries aren't planned, but all three appear to have enough upside to contribute as upperclassmen.

Coach K has worked to endow the basketball scholarships (including one for a team manager) so that the program is financially autonomous from the university. I'd say he can use the scholarships however he pleases.

And I think Nick Pagliuca's dad can handle the bursar bill.

[luvdahops]

Coach K has worked to endow the basketball scholarships (including one for a team manager) so that the program is financially autonomous from the university. I'd say he can use the scholarships however he pleases.

And I think Nick Pagliuca's dad can handle the bursar bill.

So can Brennan Besser's and, presumably, Justin Robinson's

[English]

...With Amile, Grayson, Jackson, Tatum, and Kennard, Duke doesn't need more players who can create offense. Which is why Matt's role as a facilitator and opportunistic scorer helps this team so much...

I assume you're excluding HG3 because he's not returned to game action, although is now back at (contact) practice. I fully expect Harry to be among the players on this squad who can and will, and we will want, to create offense. I can't wait.

We may have some hiccups incorporating all this firepower since there is only one ball, but much like GSW seems to be, I'm confident that the players and staff will have this team putting up explosive performances this season after they gel.

[Saratoga2]

In the same game against the same overmatched defenders, Chase grabbed 1 reb in 24 minutes, Vrank grabbed 3 in 13 mins. Similarly with scoring, Chase scored 4 Vrank had 8. Vrank's rebounding rate is almost double that of Chase. Vrank's FG% is much better than Chase and his FT% is marginally better. The only area where Chase is better is blocked shots, but his block rate is only marginally better than Vrank's. I don't see where Chase is better than Vrank.

I would rate Chase's athleticism and mobility as better than Vrank's. Against a running team, that ability might be a decisive factor on who should play. On the other hand, Chase seems to lack the ability to corral rebounds, which tend to get away from him. I wonder if that area will improve with time and experience or is just an issue of hand eye coordination. If our freshmen big men come along, these questions will not matter a lot.

[daveduke76]

Post-game press conference (http://www.goduke.com/mediaPortal/player.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ID=5810272)

I recommend watching it

Agreed - reposting this

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Nope. Obviously I too thought of Brand, but he is not tall enough to compare size-wise with Bolden. The first article I looked up about Brand stated "at 6’8, Brand is UNDERSIZED as an NBA power forward, but has made up for it with a giant wingspan that measures 7’5".

Well, your original post said "intimidating forceful monster" and didn't specify height. If you don't think that Brand meets that description, we disagree pretty greatly.

[Edouble]

No one here is slighting Brand. That's not what this is about. And my argument was not specifically about blocking shots, either. You can block shots without being a particularly intimidating presence. And by the way, Williams is 6'9". There is a real difference between 6'11" (Bolden) and 6'9". Two inches might not seem like much, but it can matter in this sport.

And I was not just talking about height only, but a combination of height, bulk, playing style, aggressiveness and physicality. But whatever. If you guys want to make the point that Duke has had other players with the same intimidating physical presence as Bolden, that's fine.


Well, your original post said "intimidating forceful monster" and didn't specify height. If you don't think that Brand meets that description, we disagree pretty greatly.

Yeah, I gotta agree with Steven43 here. We've never had a Blue Devil quite like Bolden. Just like Laettner and Okafor, he's cut from a different cloth than Brand. I think he's a great fit for this particular group as well, as a guy that can wreak havoc without getting too many touches.

[kAzE]

I'll take Brand over Bolden as long as we're comparing the two, but I'm not sure it's really fair to compare the freshman to arguably the most talented big man who ever put on a Duke uniform. I would say height is overrated, and Elton Brand is the best example of that. Wingspan, standing reach, and overall strength & explosiveness are far more relevant physical attributes in the game of basketball.

But with that said, the addition of Bolden completely changes this team. Even playing 15 minutes or less and barely running anything on offense for him, he's a game-changing force in the paint on both ends. I love his game, and what he adds to this team.

[mattman91]

Coach K has worked to endow the basketball scholarships (including one for a team manager) so that the program is financially autonomous from the university. I'd say he can use the scholarships however he pleases.

And I think Nick Pagliuca's dad can handle the bursar bill.

His net worth is over 410 million. :eek:

[Channing]

I know we never got to see him in college ... but Bolden sort of reminds me of Tyson Chandler.

[Skydog]

In the same game against the same overmatched defenders, Chase grabbed 1 reb in 24 minutes, Vrank grabbed 3 in 13 mins. Similarly with scoring, Chase scored 4 Vrank had 8. Vrank's rebounding rate is almost double that of Chase. Vrank's FG% is much better than Chase and his FT% is marginally better. The only area where Chase is better is blocked shots, but his block rate is only marginally better than Vrank's. I don't see where Chase is better than Vrank.

I'm with you in the Jeter vs Vrank comparison. Jeter may have improved from last season but this game sure didn't show it. Maine is ranked 340th in the nation and their tallest starter is 6'7". Plus we are playing at home. This should be a chance for the 6'10" Jeter to shine. How did he do compared to our other big men?

Jeter: 24 minutes, 4 pts, 1 rebound, 1 assist, 1 block, 5 turnovers. Offensive efficiency (Kenpom): 55.
Vrank:13 minutes, 8 pts, 3 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 block, 0 turnovers. Offensive efficiency: 185.
Bolden:12 minutes, 7 pts, 5 rebounds, 0 assists, 1 block, 3 turnovers. Offensive efficiency: 93.

Jeter has improved this season but a) this game was not an example, and b) his improvement is not enough to get him minutes once everyone is healthy.

[Edouble]

I'll take Brand over Bolden as long as we're comparing the two, but I'm not sure it's really fair to compare the freshman to arguably the most talented big man who ever put on a Duke uniform. I would say height is overrated, and Elton Brand is the best example of that. Wingspan, standing reach, and overall strength & explosiveness are far more relevant physical attributes in the game of basketball.

But with that said, the addition of Bolden completely changes this team. Even playing 15 minutes or less and barely running anything on offense for him, he's a game-changing force in the paint on both ends. I love his game, and what he adds to this team.

The best example?

Charles Barkley says hello!

But maybe I am misreading what you mean by "the best example". Perhaps you just mean "a fine example" and I am nitpicking.

[Edouble]

I know we never got to see him in college ... but Bolden sort of reminds me of Tyson Chandler.

Agree, and I think that was the OP's point several pages back in this thread... that Duke has not had a big guy quite like Bolden, in the mold of the tall, athletic, shot blocker/glass cleaner that runs the floor.

[jv001]

Agree, and I think that was the OP's point several pages back in this thread... that Duke has not had a big guy quite like Bolden, in the mold of the tall, athletic, shot blocker/glass cleaner that runs the floor.

Randy Denton is the closest big that I can remember. But he was still not athletic like Bolden. He's the clean up guy for our guards in our man2man defense. GoDuke!

[jipops]

I'm with you in the Jeter vs Vrank comparison. Jeter may have improved from last season but this game sure didn't show it. Maine is ranked 340th in the nation and their tallest starter is 6'7". Plus we are playing at home. This should be a chance for the 6'10" Jeter to shine. How did he do compared to our other big men?

Jeter: 24 minutes, 4 pts, 1 rebound, 1 assist, 1 block, 5 turnovers. Offensive efficiency (Kenpom): 55.
Vrank:13 minutes, 8 pts, 3 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 block, 0 turnovers. Offensive efficiency: 185.
Bolden:12 minutes, 7 pts, 5 rebounds, 0 assists, 1 block, 3 turnovers. Offensive efficiency: 93.

Jeter has improved this season but a) this game was not an example, and b) his improvement is not enough to get him minutes once everyone is healthy.

If we get back a healthy and integrated Giles along with Bolden I also highly doubt we see much of Jeter in the rotation anymore. His improvement has been on defense but he still lacks anything significant on the offensive end and his positioning for rebounds is poor. Except for defense I do think Vrank is the more advanced option but he won't see time either once (if) the freshmen are all back. I felt this way before the season and still do, I think we're a season away from getting any reliable significant contribution from Chase. He'll get there, the speed and flow of the college game is an in-progress adjustment for him.

[kAzE]

If we get back a healthy and integrated Giles along with Bolden I also highly doubt we see much of Jeter in the rotation anymore. His improvement has been on defense but he still lacks anything significant on the offensive end and his positioning for rebounds is poor. Except for defense I do think Vrank is the more advanced option but he won't see time either once (if) the freshmen are all back. I felt this way before the season and still do, I think we're a season away from getting any reliable significant contribution from Chase. He'll get there, the speed and flow of the college game is an in-progress adjustment for him.

I don't really see the argument for Vrank. Vrank has played better than he did early in the season, but defensively, he's not even close. We had a 6 man rotation for awhile this year. Chase was in it, even after he sustained an ankle injury. Vrank was firmly outside. I think Chase is sometimes out of position for rebounds mainly because he does what he is supposed to do: challenge shots at the rim. But you're right about him being a year away. He needs to get much stronger. Upper and lower body.

[DU82]

The best example?

Charles Barkley says hello!

But maybe I am misreading what you mean by "the best example". Perhaps you just mean "a fine example" and I am nitpicking.

Wes Unseld?

[Indoor66]

Heckler, our own Mike Lewis.

[DukieInBrasil]

I don't really see the argument for Vrank. Vrank has played better than he did early in the season, but defensively, he's not even close. We had a 6 man rotation for awhile this year. Chase was in it, even after he sustained an ankle injury. Vrank was firmly outside. I think Chase is sometimes out of position for rebounds mainly because he does what he is supposed to do: challenge shots at the rim. But you're right about him being a year away. He needs to get much stronger. Upper and lower body.

he may be going for blocked shots, but he's not getting them at a high enough rate to make up for the fact that his rebounding rate per 40 is nearly half that of Vrank. Vrank and Chase are nearly identical on the Oboard rate. Blocking shots at a slightly higher rate does not compensate for being a poor rebounder. Duke got destroyed by Azubuike on the boards in the KU game, against whom Chase was utterly useless. K chose not to play Vrank vs KU, but i bet that Vrank would have been able to grab a couple of those boards Chase couldn't get.
I'm hoping Chase continues his development and becomes a sold rotation-type player. Mostly i'm just questioning why people think Chase is "clearly superior" (as one poster said) by presenting evidence that Vrank's numbers, which indicate to me that they are at least playing at a similar level.

[Ultrarunner]

he may be going for blocked shots, but he's not getting them at a high enough rate to make up for the fact that his rebounding rate per 40 is nearly half that of Vrank. Vrank and Chase are nearly identical on the Oboard rate. Blocking shots at a slightly higher rate does not compensate for being a poor rebounder. Duke got destroyed by Azubuike on the boards in the KU game, against whom Chase was utterly useless. K chose not to play Vrank vs KU, but i bet that Vrank would have been able to grab a couple of those boards Chase couldn't get.
I'm hoping Chase continues his development and becomes a sold rotation-type player. Mostly i'm just questioning why people think Chase is "clearly superior" (as one poster said) by presenting evidence that Vrank's numbers, which indicate to me that they are at least playing at a similar level.

I disagree with the bolded part. Chase isn' going for blocks. He's been playing pretty good position defense and working on being in the right place at the right time. In this, he's miles ahead of Vrank. I also think that Chase has already matured into a solid rotation-type player in almost any program other than Duke.

[jimsumner]

Right before Mike Krzyzewski came to town, Duke had a 6-11, 250-pound center who averaged 21.3 points, 10.9 rebounds and 3 blocks per game in his final season at Duke, shooting 53.8% from the field and 84.1% from the line. He was the seventh pick in the NBA draft and played 14 seasons in the NBA, scoring just under 11,000 career points.

Too far back? Count me in the crowd that thinks Elton Brand could do things at the college level that we can only hope Marques Bolden can approach.

[-jk]

Right before Mike Krzyzewski came to town, Duke had a 6-11, 250-pound center who averaged 21.3 points, 10.9 rebounds and 3 blocks per game in his final season at Duke, shooting 53.8% from the field and 84.1% from the line. He was the seventh pick in the NBA draft and played 14 seasons in the NBA, scoring just under 11,000 career points.
...

I think he's still yammering on, along with a teammate... (And I have this childhood recollection he was described as 6-11 and 3/4's now and then.)

-jk

[DukieInBrasil]

I disagree with the bolded part. Chase isn' going for blocks. He's been playing pretty good position defense and working on being in the right place at the right time. In this, he's miles ahead of Vrank. I also think that Chase has already matured into a solid rotation-type player in almost any program other than Duke.

the bolded part was in response to kaze's idea that Chase doesn't rebound well because he's attempting to block shots, or "defending the rim". Chase's defense has been pretty good, much better than last year. I disagree withe idea that he's in the right place at the right time since he has the lowest rebound rate of any of our bigs. Rebounding is a key part of defense, and Chase doesn't do it very well. Again, i don't get how Chase is "miles ahead of Vrank", the numbers don't back that up.
It doesn't really matter what he'd be doing at other programs, b/c he's at Duke, where he's making a solid contribution.

[Ultrarunner]

the bolded part was in response to kaze's idea that Chase doesn't rebound well because he's attempting to block shots, or "defending the rim". Chase's defense has been pretty good, much better than last year. I disagree withe idea that he's in the right place at the right time since he has the lowest rebound rate of any of our bigs. Rebounding is a key part of defense, and Chase doesn't do it very well. Again, i don't get how Chase is "miles ahead of Vrank", the numbers don't back that up.
It doesn't really matter what he'd be doing at other programs, b/c he's at Duke, where he's making a solid contribution.

Apparently I missed the /sarcasm tag at the end of my last sentence.

For the life of me, I can't figure out why we need an annual 'pick-a-player-to-nitpick' theme to go along with our 'x-player-deserves-more-minutes' themes. Chase is developing nicely and has given us some really good minutes, many of them on a tweaked ankle. He plays against substantially higher quality competition than Vrank yet we ignore that in our comparisons as though the per40, where they're relatively even, holds all the answers.

And while I agree that rebounding is a good and necessary skill, Chase has been doing really good positional work to cut off drives. One affects the other. I'd rather have the defense try to force the miss in the first place. The rebound is a secondary defensive responsibility.

Having said all that, I like them both, Chase and Vrank. I think they both will have nice, though not All-American, careers at Duke.

[DukieInBrasil]

Apparently I missed the /sarcasm tag at the end of my last sentence.

For the life of me, I can't figure out why we need an annual 'pick-a-player-to-nitpick' theme to go along with our 'x-player-deserves-more-minutes' themes. Chase is developing nicely and has given us some really good minutes, many of them on a tweaked ankle. He plays against substantially higher quality competition than Vrank yet we ignore that in our comparisons as though the per40, where they're relatively even, holds all the answers.

And while I agree that rebounding is a good and necessary skill, Chase has been doing really good positional work to cut off drives. One affects the other. I'd rather have the defense try to force the miss in the first place. The rebound is a secondary defensive responsibility.

Having said all that, I like them both, Chase and Vrank. I think they both will have nice, though not All-American, careers at Duke.

i have pointed out on several occasions that Chase and Vrank play against different quality players and that may affect their stats. My responses about Chase have been to temper what i see as overly-enthusiastic observations about Chase, not to "nit-pick" him.
We agree, that he has improved, that's a good thing, and that we want for him to continue to develop and be a good player for Duke.

[Jim3k]

Right before Mike Krzyzewski came to town, Duke had a 6-11, 250-pound center who averaged 21.3 points, 10.9 rebounds and 3 blocks per game in his final season at Duke, shooting 53.8% from the field and 84.1% from the line. He was the seventh pick in the NBA draft and played 14 seasons in the NBA, scoring just under 11,000 career points.

Too far back? Count me in the crowd that thinks Elton Brand could do things at the college level that we can only hope Marques Bolden can approach.

Starting at center, a 16-year-old, number 42, The Aircraft Carrier, the G-Man, Mike Gminski!

[kAzE]

the bolded part was in response to kaze's idea that Chase doesn't rebound well because he's attempting to block shots, or "defending the rim". Chase's defense has been pretty good, much better than last year. I disagree withe idea that he's in the right place at the right time since he has the lowest rebound rate of any of our bigs. Rebounding is a key part of defense, and Chase doesn't do it very well. Again, i don't get how Chase is "miles ahead of Vrank", the numbers don't back that up.
It doesn't really matter what he'd be doing at other programs, b/c he's at Duke, where he's making a solid contribution.

Since when is rim protection measured solely by shots blocked? Altering shots is almost as good. I believe he's also leading the team in charges taken. Vrank against quality guards earlier in the year allowed layup after layup. Chase Jeter is quicker, more talented, and a much better defender. We have 0 need for another offensive player. We're fine offensively. We need a big guy who can move his feet and prevent layups, and Chase has done that pretty well in his minutes.

However, I'm not sure why this is even a discussion right now. Both of these guys are at least a year away from being impact players, and when both Harry and Marques are back to full health, neither of them are in the 8 man rotation. It's a useless argument.

[fraggler]

Since when is rim protection measured solely by shots blocked? Altering shots is almost as good. I believe he's also leading the team in charges taken. Vrank against quality guards earlier in the year allowed layup after layup. Chase Jeter is quicker, more talented, and a much better defender. We have 0 need for another offensive player. We're fine offensively. We need a big guy who can move his feet and prevent layups, and Chase has done that pretty well in his minutes.

However, I'm not sure why this is even a discussion right now. Both of these guys are at least a year away from being impact players, and when both Harry and Marques are back to full health, neither of them are in the 8 man rotation. It's a useless argument.

Thank you.

[Ichabod Drain]

Since when is rim protection measured solely by shots blocked? Altering shots is almost as good. I believe he's also leading the team in charges taken. Vrank against quality guards earlier in the year allowed layup after layup. Chase Jeter is quicker, more talented, and a much better defender. We have 0 need for another offensive player. We're fine offensively. We need a big guy who can move his feet and prevent layups, and Chase has done that pretty well in his minutes.

However, I'm not sure why this is even a discussion right now. Both of these guys are at least a year away from being impact players, and when both Harry and Marques are back to full health, neither of them are in the 8 man rotation. It's a useless argument.

As DBR posters we are not unlike Lionel Terray, "Conquistadors of the Useless"

[devilsince1977]

Right before Mike Krzyzewski came to town, Duke had a 6-11, 250-pound center who averaged 21.3 points, 10.9 rebounds and 3 blocks per game in his final season at Duke, shooting 53.8% from the field and 84.1% from the line. He was the seventh pick in the NBA draft and played 14 seasons in the NBA, scoring just under 11,000 career points.

Too far back? Count me in the crowd that thinks Elton Brand could do things at the college level that we can only hope Marques Bolden can approach.

I was wondering when someone would bring up the "G" man. Even his nickname describes an enforcer. He may have been mild mannered, but he was still the most intimidating big man in my history of Duke. He also played at a time when big men were expected to play like BIG men and not guards.

[DU82]

Starting at center, a 16-year-old, number 42, The Aircraft Carrier, the G-Man, Mike Gminski!

Ah, 43. Brand wore 42.

[davekay1971]

I don't disagree with your premise, but you are a might premature with awarding unCheat with a pass to the final four.

There's a huge difference between admitting that the cheating scum are good enough to CONTEND for the Final Four, and giving them "a pass" to the Final Four.

[BD80]

There's a huge difference between admitting that the cheating scum are good enough to CONTEND for the Final Four, and giving them "a pass" to the Final Four.

History has shown that if there is a way for unc to cheat its way into the final four, they will find it.

[Jim3k]

Ah, 43. Brand wore 42.

Heh! Nice catch. But I have been known to be both right and wrong at the same time. :o

Gminski wearing 42 here (http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Content/Image/01-11-2008/Mike-Gminski-Rebound.jpg) and here. (http://assets.sbnation.com/imported_assets/8215/gminski_front.jpg)

[uh_no]

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/18224972/duke-blue-devils-coach-mike-krzyzewski-hopeful-harry-giles-return-christmas

likely he'll be back for one of the patsies....sorry "hopefully" back.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/18224972/duke-blue-devils-coach-mike-krzyzewski-hopeful-harry-giles-return-christmas

likely he'll be back for one of the patsies...sorry "hopefully" back.

Personally, I think the Tennessee State game would be an excellent debut...

Possibly because it will also be my Cameron debut.