This Week in the ACC: 11/28-12/4 (plus ACC-B!G poll- vote now!!)

[pfrduke]

Duke, UNC, and UVA once again look like the cream of the crop, winning their pre-season tournaments with relative ease, even though they are playing without people who were expected to be significant contributors at the start of the year (some more significant than others, some more permanently gone than others). Notre Dame picked up a solid win over a solid if unspectacular field, but Louisville gakked away its shot against Baylor and no one else could get the job done.

This week brings fresh opportunities for major conference wins, primarily in the ACC/B1G challenge which it would be really nice to win this year (we're favored in 9 of 14 matchups per Pomeroy).

Monday
[38]Florida State hosts [60]Minnesota (7:00, ESPNU)
[62]Wake Forest at [50]Northwestern (9:00, ESPNU)

Tuesday
[56]Pittsburgh at [54]Maryland (7:00, ESPN2)
[106]Georgia Tech at [101]Penn State (7:00, ESPNU)
[9]Syracuse at [8]Wisconsin (7:30, ESPN)
[29]Notre Dame hosts [72]Iowa (9:00, ESPN2)
[53]NC State at [92]Illinois (9:00, ESPNU)
[1]Duke hosts [31]Michigan State (9:30, ESPN)

Wednesday
[7]Louisville hosts [14]Purdue (7:15, ESPN)
[34]Virginia Tech at [25]Michigan (7:15, ESPN2)
[28]Miami hosts [165]Rutgers (7:15, ESPNU)
[3]North Carolina at [21]Indiana (9:15, ESPN)
[2]Virginia hosts [20]Ohio State (9:15, ESPN2)
[32]Clemson hosts [76]Nebraska (9:15, ESPNU)

Thursday is dark

Friday
[56]Pittsburgh vs. [198]Duquesne in Pittsburgh (7:00, ACCN)

Saturday
[106]Georgia Tech at [114]Tennessee (12:00, SECN)
[62]Wake Forest at [96]Richmond (12:00, ESPNU)
[194]Boston College hosts [262]Dartmouth (1:00, ACCN)
[2]Virginia hosts [18]West Virginia (2:00, ESPNU)
[9]Syracuse hosts [231]North Florida (4:00, ACCN)
[53]NC State hosts [163]Boston U (4:30, ACCN)
[1]Duke hosts [331]Maine (5:30, ESPN2)
[28]Miami vs. [243]Wofford in Miami (5:30, ESPN3)
[7]Louisville vs. [142]Grand Canyon in Phoeniz (9:00)

Sunday
[3]North Carolina hosts [283]Radford (2:00, ACCN)
[38]Florida State vs. [124]George Washington in Washington, D.C. (4:00, CBSSN)
[32]Clemson hosts [336]Coppin State (7:00, ACCN)
[29]Notre Dame hosts [349]North Carolina A&T (7:00, ACCN)

ACC Non-Conference Record: 73-16
ACC Record vs. Power 6*: 12-11
America East: 2-0
American Athletic: 2-2
Atlantic Sun: 1-0
Atlantic Ten: 3-1
Big 12: 1-5
Big East: 2-3
Big Sky: 1-0
Big South: 7-0
B1G Ten: 6-0
Big West: 3-0
Colonial: 4-0
Conference USA: 2-0
Horizon: 1-0
Ivy: 3-0
MAAC: 3-0
MAC: 1-1
MEAC: 2-0
MVC: 3-0
MWC: 1-0
Northeast: 3-0
Ohio Valley: 2-0
Pac 12: 2-0
Patriot: 4-0
SEC: 1-3
Southern: 4-0
Southland: 1-1
Sun Belt: 2-0
SWAC: 2-0
WAC: 3-0
Non-D1: 1-0

*Big XII, B1G, Big East, Pac-12, SEC

[pfrduke]

Now with poll to vote on the challenge outcome! I think this is the year the ACC gets back on top, but I'm ever the optimist when it comes to ACC OOC performance.

[PackMan97]

13-1 - Carolina chokes big time.

[devildeac]

13-1 - Carolina chokes big time.

Gotta appreciate the optimism and hatred here. ;)

[DU82]

13-1 - Carolina chokes big time.

Beat me to it. :)

(I at least voted that way, too!)

[ipatent]

Two games tonight, FSU-Minnesota a close game early.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

I wasn't too concerned with the possibility of UNC "choking" the IU game on the road...until I see a pack fan bring it up. If any team understands choking it's State and their fans, so I guess I'll be concerned now and watch from the edge of my seat.

[flyingdutchdevil]

...I support the Pack's sentiment. UNC chokes...

[Ichabod Drain]

Don't know if UNC chokes but that's certainly the most interesting game to me. Excited to see those two teams match up against each other. The Duke game tomorrow should be a good one but both teams are so short handed it's somewhat anti-climactic.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Going into a hostile top ten teams house and coming up short would hardly be considered choking, if it should happen.

There's a lot of wishful thinking going on in this thread.

[ipatent]

This 7-4 kid Koumadje for FSU is raw, but has lots of potential. Reminds me physically of Ralph Sampson.

[AluminumDuke]

Is there something wrong with my television or is Florida State wearing Carolina blue uniforms? Why??????

[wilson]

Is there something wrong with my television or is Florida State wearing Carolina blue uniforms? Why??????Probably one of those turquoise numbers honoring Native Americans.
ETA: Yep. (http://thespun.com/acc/florida-state/photo-florida-state-seminoles-basketball-unveils-turquoise-uniform-for-native-american-history-month)

[grossbus]

"Going into a hostile top ten teams house and coming up short would hardly be considered choking, if it should happen"

Not to worry. B1G teams usually fail to show up against unc.

[ChillinDuke]

This 7-4 kid Koumadje for FSU is raw, but has lots of potential. Reminds me physically of Ralph Sampson.

Very raw but very intriguing. Can't teach 7'4". FSU has a lot of intriguing pieces. XRM, Bacon, Isaac, this Koumadje guy, and even Ojo is a big body.

FSU finally blew this one open in the second half, but the first half was a poster child for the unwatchability of college ball. Over the first 20 minutes, the two teams combined for 32% FG shooting, including worse than 24% from deep, 19 turnovers, and 28 fouls. Perhaps the only respectable thing (if there was one) in the first half was a combined 71% FT. Yes, the teams combined for 27 FTs versus only 16 FGs.

I love college ball. I breathe it this time of year. But that first half was abysmal. I'm the kind of guy that will throw on Ball State v Buffalo on a random Tuesday night in January. So presumably FSU v Minny in The Challenge would be a lot of fun to watch two Power 5 teams go at it. Not so. Truly awful stuff. No flow, no fun.

I really hope the Freedom of Movement stuff pays dividends at some future point because the pain and sacrifice to get there (as a viewer) is very real.

Finally, these are the types of games that I'd love Jay Bilas to weigh in on. These are two Power 5 teams (6 if you include the Big East in basketball) with NBA potential on the court and a viewer (me) that loves watching college basketball, yet I was a buzzing-gnat-in-my-ear away from getting distracted and turning off the TV. If you can't keep me entertained then how the heck can you claim these kids deserve serious dough for this product? And before you claim it's the FOM rules that are doing this to the game, I'd argue that anyone worth paying serious cash to play ball should be able to adjust to the sorts of fouls that were being called much, much, much faster than a 28-foul first half.

...FSU still finishing this off, but the ACC will go 1-0 to start The Challenge. Nice start!

- Chillin

[ipatent]

Very raw but very intriguing. Can't teach 7'4".

- Chillin

NBA teams will no doubt be very patient waiting for this kid to develop.

I usually root for the ACC in these games (even UNC), but hard to root against Chris Collins.

[CDu]

Going into a hostile top ten teams house and coming up short would hardly be considered choking, if it should happen.

There's a lot of wishful thinking going on in this thread.

Shocking that a Duke site would have a couple of playful (and not serious) jokes about UNC being the only ACC team to lose. But, yeah, super job poking holes in what were a couple of tongue-in-cheek posts.

[Newton_14]

Is there something wrong with my television or is Florida State wearing Carolina blue uniforms? Why??????

I had the same question. Very strange

[-jk]

...

I really hope the Freedom of Movement stuff pays dividends at some future point because the pain and sacrifice to get there (as a viewer) is very real...



Um, yeah.

I love me some flowy hoops, but it always seems to end in early January.

Year after "points of emphasis" year.

I keep dreamin' <sigh>

-jk

[devildeac]

Don't know if UNC chokes but that's certainly the most interesting game to me. Excited to see those two teams match up against each other. The Duke game tomorrow should be a good one but both teams are so short handed it's somewhat anti-climactic.

Hoosier Daddy? ;)

[devildeac]

Deacs go down, 58-65 so the ACC is 1-1 tonight. I'm 2-0 so far :o ;) .

[Olympic Fan]

Deacs go down, 58-65 so the ACC is 1-1 tonight. I'm 2-0 so far :o ;) .

The betting line is also 2-0 ... which is good news for the ACC as the line projects a 9-5 ACC victory.

Solid win for Chris Collins and the boys, but maybe not as good as the announcers tried to make it seem -- Wake is a top 100 team, but I very much doubt that they will be an NCAA team. Beating a top 100 team at home is a solid win, but not more than that.

[JasonEvans]

Solid win for Chris Collins and the boys, but maybe not as good as the announcers tried to make it seem -- Wake is a top 100 team, but I very much doubt that they will be an NCAA team. Beating a top 100 team at home is a solid win, but not more than that.

This is not a game that gets you into the dance, it is one that keeps you out. It is the kind of game that looks ok on your resume, but nothing special, if you win it. But, it is the kind of game that looks sorta bad if you lose it (assuming Wake is a fringe top 100 team, not a top 50 club).

Props to Chris and his team for the win. They are now 5-2 and have a pretty easy non-conf slate moving ahead. DePaul and Dayton are the only mildly challenging teams left outside the Big Whatever. It is entirely possible that NE enters the Big schedule at 11-2. If they can manage to just go .500 in the conference, 9-9, they have a better than average shot at making the dance. 10-8 and they are probably a lock for their first ever NCAA tourney.

Jason "this would be up there with Clemson winning in Chapel Hill... a basketball impossibility" Evans

[PackMan97]

I wasn't too concerned with the possibility of UNC "choking" the IU game on the road...until I see a pack fan bring it up. If any team understands choking it's State and their fans, so I guess I'll be concerned now and watch from the edge of my seat.

http://www.cbssports.com/images/collegebasketball/Villanova-Buzzer-Beater-Reactions.jpg

[English]

...Finally, these are the types of games that I'd love Jay Bilas to weigh in on. These are two Power 5 teams (6 if you include the Big East in basketball) with NBA potential on the court and a viewer (me) that loves watching college basketball, yet I was a buzzing-gnat-in-my-ear away from getting distracted and turning off the TV. If you can't keep me entertained then how the heck can you claim these kids deserve serious dough for this product? And before you claim it's the FOM rules that are doing this to the game, I'd argue that anyone worth paying serious cash to play ball should be able to adjust to the sorts of fouls that were being called much, much, much faster than a 28-foul first half...
- Chillin

Please don't encourage him. Facing an unlikeable truth has never stopped Jay from ascending his soapbox to hear himself prattle.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

http://www.cbssports.com/images/collegebasketball/Villanova-Buzzer-Beater-Reactions.jpg

Looks like a photo coach Gottfried took of his TV from his recliner.....

[OldPhiKap]

http://www.cbssports.com/images/collegebasketball/Villanova-Buzzer-Beater-Reactions.jpg

That's pretty darn funny.


Looks like a photo coach Gottfried took of his TV from his recliner...

That's a pretty darn fine return.


Y'all are already in mid-season form. Props to you both

[PackMan97]

Looks like a photo coach Gottfried took of his TV from his recliner....

Way to kick a guy when he's down...sounds like Gottfried had a rough go of things all the way around last year.

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/nc-state/article117556703.html

[rolm]

http://www.cbssports.com/images/collegebasketball/Villanova-Buzzer-Beater-Reactions.jpg

Unfortunately, reminds me of Scotty Thurman's shot from 1994. Can never get over that game and the 1999 Championship game:mad:

[DukieInBrasil]

But the poll options don't give any consideration that the ACC was 6-0 over the B!G #numbersdontmatter prior to the start of the Challenge!

[Olympic Fan]

Wow! I can't explain this, but in the last two hours, the line on tonight's NC State at Illinois game has flipped from NC State favored by 21/2 to Illinois favored by 1.

That's a 31/2 point swing in just a couple of hours.

I have heard no news -- or even hint of any news -- to justify the late swing. But there must be some reason the late money is pouring in for a weak Illini team.

FWIW: The spread on Duke-MSU has climbed from Duke -10 to Duke -12 today.

[PackMan97]

Wow! I can't explain this, but in the last two hours, the line on tonight's NC State at Illinois game has flipped from NC State favored by 21/2 to Illinois favored by 1.

That's a 31/2 point swing in just a couple of hours.

I have heard no news -- or even hint of any news -- to justify the late swing. But there must be some reason the late money is pouring in for a weak Illini team.

FWIW: The spread on Duke-MSU has climbed from Duke -10 to Duke -12 today.

The reason...a fool and their money were lucky to get together in the first place?

[Troublemaker]

If the ACC can gain a split (or better) tonight, it would set things up really well for winning the Challenge. Because tomorrow, the ACC will be favored in 5 of 6 games, including playing 4 of 6 games at home.

[devildeac]

If the ACC can gain a split (or better) tonight, it would set things up really well for winning the Challenge. Because tomorrow, the ACC will be favored in 5 of 6 games, including playing 4 of 6 games at home.

I'll go with this tonight, but no wagers:o:

[56]Pittsburgh at [54]Maryland-W (7:00, ESPN2)
[106]Georgia Tech at [101]Penn State-W (7:00, ESPNU)
[9]Syracuse at [8]Wisconsin-W (7:30, ESPN)
[29]Notre Dame-W hosts [72]Iowa (9:00, ESPN2)
[53]NC State at [92]Illinois-W (9:00, ESPNU)
[1]Duke-W hosts [31]Michigan State (9:30, ESPN)

[Troublemaker]

Pitt going on the road and upsetting the Terps was important. Now, unless MSU or Iowa pull off an upset against Duke / ND, the ACC will have at least a tie going into the final day. And if NCSU wins at Illinois, we'll have a stranglehold on the Challenge; only massive choking tomorrow would lead to the ACC not winning.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

That's pretty darn funny.



That's a pretty darn fine return.


Y'all are already in mid-season form. Props to you both
Can we get a Your Mama thread going with just Packman and Wheat contributing? I'd read that religiously.

[davekay1971]

Unfortunately, reminds me of Scotty Thurman's shot from 1994. Can never get over that game and the 1999 Championship game:mad:

Can we get a friggin' trigger warning on that kind of post?

Hey, look, it's 2004, it's UConn, Emeka Okafor, and a bunch of refs!

Yeah, you like that? I didn't think so.

BTW...who the heck are all these guys on State's team?

[devildeac]

I'll go with this tonight, but no wagers:o:

[56]Pittsburgh at [54]Maryland-W (7:00, ESPN2)
[106]Georgia Tech at [101]Penn State-W (7:00, ESPNU)
[9]Syracuse at [8]Wisconsin-W (7:30, ESPN)
[29]Notre Dame-W hosts [72]Iowa (9:00, ESPN2)
[53]NC State at [92]Illinois-W (9:00, ESPNU)
[1]Duke-W hosts [31]Michigan State (9:30, ESPN)

5/6 tonight. I'm rolling. :o

[Troublemaker]

If the ACC can gain a split (or better) tonight, it would set things up really well for winning the Challenge. Because tomorrow, the ACC will be favored in 5 of 6 games, including playing 4 of 6 games at home.

Welp, mission accomplished, and the key as mentioned was the Pitt upset of Maryland.

I just double-checked to make sure -- both KenPom and Vegas have the ACC as favorites in 5 of the 6 games tomorrow.

It would take a bad night from the ACC tomorrow to tie this Challenge and a horrible night to lose it.

[JasonEvans]

Ho hum, just a little 24 point, 17 rebound game for Bonzi Colson. He's going to be in the running for ACC POY if he keeps this up. Notre Dame is now 7-0... though the best team they have played is probably Northwestern. It gets tougher soon though. They've got Villanova and Purdue in mid-December.

-Jason "anyone know why BJ Anya is persona non-grata for the Pack? He played 6 minutes tonight after playing 7 in their previous game... not the senior season he envisioned, I suspect" Evans

[Olympic Fan]

I think the ACC is in great shape --

the odds makers have been right on the money so far ... well, they missed on Pitt at Maryland (LOVE to see the Twerps fold ... they are now 0-3 as a Big Ten team in the Challenge) and on the NC State-Illinois game (actually, the line flipped in Illinois favor Tuesday afternoon), but that evens out.

The Challenge was supposed to be 4-4 after tonight.

As Troublemaker noted, the ACC is favored in 5 of 6 games Wednesday-- that gives us a one-game cushion. Four of the last six games are on ACC homecourts.

[dukelifer]

Ho hum, just a little 24 point, 17 rebound game for Bonzi Colson. He's going to be in the running for ACC POY if he keeps this up. Notre Dame is now 7-0... though the best team they have played is probably Northwestern. It gets tougher soon though. They've got Villanova and Purdue in mid-December.

-Jason "anyone know why BJ Anya is persona non-grata for the Pack? He played 6 minutes tonight after playing 7 in their previous game... not the senior season he envisioned, I suspect" Evans

How many will Bonzi score against Duke? He used to only have games like that against Duke. Notre Dame is a handful. Duke will need all its players when they face ND.

[tbyers11]

Ho hum, just a little 24 point, 17 rebound game for Bonzi Colson. He's going to be in the running for ACC POY if he keeps this up. Notre Dame is now 7-0... though the best team they have played is probably Northwestern. It gets tougher soon though. They've got Villanova and Purdue in mid-December.

-Jason "anyone know why BJ Anya is persona non-grata for the Pack? He played 6 minutes tonight after playing 7 in their previous game... not the senior season he envisioned, I suspect" Evans

I don't know about tonight but I read that Anya was poked in the eye during their last game and didn't play in the second half as a result

[flyingdutchdevil]

How many will Bonzi score against Duke? He used to only have games like that against Duke. Notre Dame is a handful. Duke will need all its players when they face ND.

IMO, Brey just gets better and better. I really wish he was 10-15 years younger...he would make it a no brainer for Coach K's replacement.

[MChambers]

IMO, Brey just gets better and better. I really wish he was 10-15 years younger...he would make it a no brainer for Coach K's replacement.

In addition to being younger, he'd have to bring in a defensive coordinator. His offenses are always great, but the defenses . . .

[flyingdutchdevil]

In addition to being younger, he'd have to bring in a defensive coordinator. His offenses are always great, but the defenses . . .

Kinda like Duke over the last 3-4 years? It would make the transition much easier :D

[pfrduke]

Kinda like Duke over the last 3-4 years? It would make the transition much easier :D

Duke's worst defense in the last 4 years is equal to Notre Dame's best. We've ranked 86th, 12th, 87th, and 26th; Notre Dame has ranked 158, 102, 185, and 86. Since 2002, Brey has finished with a top 50 defense precisely once (2008, 45th) and out of the top 100 7 times. In that same time span, Duke has finished with a top 50 defense 12 times, a top 25 defense 10 times, and never outside of the top 100. Kinda like Duke is not an apt description for Notre Dame's defenses.

[left_hook_lacey]

This will be, by far, the most interesting game of the ACC/Big"What's in a Number?" Challenge. Two top 10 teams with interesting seasons so far. Indiana has a huge win, and a terrible loss coming in. UNC has somewhat overproduced so far by winning every game in Maui by double-digits. I don't think anyone would've been surprised that they won(field wasn't that strong), but they have looked better than anticipated in doing so. This game should really give a better understanding as to where both of these teams really are at this point in the season.

Been looking at the stats(thinking about making a wager) on these two teams. They are about as even in every category as I've seen in a big game like this. Vegas has UNC -4.5 right now.

https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basketball/matchup/tar-heels-hoosiers-2016-11-30


But I think Indiana, at home, is going to walk away with the W. Indiana by 5 in what should be a pretty entertaining, high-scoring game.

[Olympic Fan]

This will be, by far, the most interesting game of the ACC/Big"What's in a Number?" Challenge. Two top 10 teams with interesting seasons so far. Indiana has a huge win, and a terrible loss coming in. UNC has somewhat overproduced so far by winning every game in Maui by double-digits. I don't think anyone would've been surprised that they won(field wasn't that strong), but they have looked better than anticipated in doing so. This game should really give a better understanding as to where both of these teams really are at this point in the season.

Been looking at the stats(thinking about making a wager) on these two teams. They are about as even in every category as I've seen in a big game like this. Vegas has UNC -4.5 right now.

https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basketball/matchup/tar-heels-hoosiers-2016-11-30


But I think Indiana, at home, is going to walk away with the W. Indiana by 5 in what should be a pretty entertaining, high-scoring game.

Agree that this looks like the night's best matchup.

I'm pretty confident Louisville will handle Purdue at home; Miami will hammer Rutgers at home; Virginia will stifle Ohio State at home and Clemson will handle Nebraska at home (des[pite what it says on the front page, the game is in Littlejohn). That's enough to give the ACC the eight wins it needs to regain the Commissioner's trophy.

I think Virginia Tech at Michigan is the other interesting matchup tonight.

But even if we lose that one, I think we have enough cushion that I can feel safe in pulling against the Cheats.

[devildeac]

Agree that this looks like the night's best matchup.

I'm pretty confident Louisville will handle Purdue at home; Miami will hammer Rutgers at home; Virginia will stifle Ohio State at home and Clemson will handle Nebraska at home (des[pite what it says on the front page, the game is in Littlejohn). That's enough to give the ACC the eight wins it needs to regain the Commissioner's trophy.

I think Virginia Tech at Michigan is the other interesting matchup tonight.

But even if we lose that one, I think we have enough cushion that I can feel safe in pulling against the Cheats.

Even if that would be the only ACC win (or our only loss), I'd still pull against the lying, cheating, dishonest, obstructive, bastards from chappaheeya.

[left_hook_lacey]

Agree that this looks like the night's best matchup.

I'm pretty confident Louisville will handle Purdue at home; Miami will hammer Rutgers at home; Virginia will stifle Ohio State at home and Clemson will handle Nebraska at home (des[pite what it says on the front page, the game is in Littlejohn). That's enough to give the ACC the eight wins it needs to regain the Commissioner's trophy.

I think Virginia Tech at Michigan is the other interesting matchup tonight.But even if we lose that one, I think we have enough cushion that I can feel safe in pulling against the Cheats.

I really think VT might have a shot at the upset. Michigan is usually known as a 3 point shooting team under Beilein. They have been pretty cold so far this year. If they don't find their stroke in that game, it might give VT the window it needs to steal one for the good guys. And then, the sky is the limit for pulling against the Cheats.

[PackMan97]

Even if that would be the only ACC win (or our only loss), I'd still pull against the lying, cheating, dishonest, obstructive, bastards from chappaheeya.

I was listening to Triangle area sports radio and they brought up the discussion if you had to pick one team (in any sport) to win a championship who would it be? After disqualifying women's basketball (well, duh!) the next team I'd pick if my life depended on it would be North Carolina. Shocking isn't it? They way I figure is if they win and I live, nothing has really changed...but if they lost at least I'd die a happy man :)

[Wahoo2000]

Unfortunately, reminds me of Scotty Thurman's shot from 1994. Can never get over that game and the 1999 Championship game:mad:

At least the Gordon Hayward half court bank shot didn't go in........

[devildeac]

I was listening to Triangle area sports radio and they brought up the discussion if you had to pick one team (in any sport) to win a championship who would it be? After disqualifying women's basketball (well, duh!) the next team I'd pick if my life depended on it would be North Carolina. Shocking isn't it? They way I figure is if they win and I live, nothing has really changed...but if they lost at least I'd die a happy man :)

Yea, but if they win and you live, you'll be listening to their detritus/offal about how much better they are than you in oh so many ways until you died and your existence would be wretched/miserable. :o:rolleyes:

[devildeac]

I'll roll with this tonight:

Wednesday
[7]Louisville-W hosts [14]Purdue (7:15, ESPN)
[34]Virginia Tech at [25]Michigan-W (7:15, ESPN2)
[28]Miami-W hosts [165]Rutgers (7:15, ESPNU)
[3]North Carolina at [21]Indiana-W (9:15, ESPN)
[2]Virginia-W hosts [20]Ohio State (9:15, ESPN2)
[32]Clemson-W hosts [76]Nebraska (9:15, ESPNU)

Might be willing to wager a couple small copper/alloy coins with an honest president's face on them :o :rolleyes: .

[PackMan97]

Yea, but if they win and you live, you'll be listening to their detritus/offal about how much better they are than you in oh so many ways until you died and your existence would be wretched/miserable. :o:rolleyes:

Like I said, nothing would have changed ;)

[Wheat/"/"/"]

I'm expecting a very high intensity, high level game at Indiana. I think IU will try to attack the post, trying to get foul trouble on Meeks and Hicks. That's how they win. Both will have to be disiplined, no reaching, and not go for pump fakes, just play straight up D.

I'm confident that if IU tries to push the pace and starts taking lots of 3's, losing sight of getting the ball inside, UNC 's on ball defense, rebounding and transition game will win out.

Justin Jackson can create a mismatch in this one, I can see him having a big game. I also think Hicks will be hard to guard for IU too.

That said, it's hard to beat good teams at home, and IU has good balance inside and out. Bryant is especially strong inside.

X factor is Berry, he gives the Heels confidence to win big games like this on the road.

[jv001]

Even if that would be the only ACC win (or our only loss), I'd still pull against the lying, cheating, dishonest, obstructive, bastards from chappaheeya.

Oh, how I wish I could spork you. Go Hoosiers. GoDuke!

[jv001]

I'm expecting a very high intensity, high level game at Indiana. I think IU will try to attack the post, trying to get foul trouble on Meeks and Hicks. That's how they win. Both will have to be disiplined, no reaching, and not go for pump fakes, just play straight up D.

I'm confident that if IU tries to push the pace and starts taking lots of 3's, losing sight of getting the ball inside, UNC 's on ball defense, rebounding and transition game will win out.

Justin Jackson can create a mismatch in this one, I can see him having a big game. I also think Hicks will be hard to guard for IU too.

That said, it's hard to beat good teams at home, and IU has good balance inside and out. Bryant is especially strong inside.

X factor is Berry, he gives the Heels confidence to win big games like this on the road.

I believe Berry is no longer the X-Factor. He's the real deal in my opinion. But I can't root for him because he plays for the most corrupt, evil college program ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GoDuke!

[Troublemaker]

I really think VT might have a shot at the upset. Michigan is usually known as a 3 point shooting team under Beilein. They have been pretty cold so far this year. If they don't find their stroke in that game, it might give VT the window it needs to steal one for the good guys. And then, the sky is the limit for pulling against the Cheats.

Nice call! And with VaTech pulling off the comeback win, the ACC swept the early session to go up 7-4. Just need 1 win now!

[OldPhiKap]

Go to HELL, Carolina, Go to HELL!!!!!!!

[Duke79UNLV77]

It appears likely the ACC can win the challenge without the Cheaters winning. Nice.

Berry and Hick would already be in the NBA if they'd gone elsewhere

[devildeac]

I'll roll with this tonight:

Wednesday
[7]Louisville-W hosts [14]Purdue (7:15, ESPN)
[34]Virginia Tech at [25]Michigan-W (7:15, ESPN2)
[28]Miami-W hosts [165]Rutgers (7:15, ESPNU)
[3]North Carolina at [21]Indiana-W (9:15, ESPN)
[2]Virginia-W hosts [20]Ohio State (9:15, ESPN2)
[32]Clemson-W hosts [76]Nebraska (9:15, ESPNU)

Might be willing to wager a couple small copper/alloy coins with an honest president's face on them :o :rolleyes: .

Two out of three ain't bad for the early games for me, missing the VT win over MI in Michigan. Looking good for the ACC. But, as always, GTHc, GTH, go Hoosiers.

[Ultrarunner]

Nice call! And with VaTech pulling off the comeback win, the ACC swept the early session to go up 7-4. Just need 1 win now!

To match my prediction of 10-4, the ACC needs to win out tonight. That said, I'm more than happy to take one for the team, if it means that the Hoosiers get the chance to redeem themselves from their debacle last week.

Getting a prediction right is just bragging rights. 9F is forever.

[devildeac]

Oh, how I wish I could spork you. Go Hoosiers. GoDuke!

Thanks. Virtual sporks accepted, too. Or a nice Foothills ale...

[devildeac]

I really think VT might have a shot at the upset. Michigan is usually known as a 3 point shooting team under Beilein. They have been pretty cold so far this year. If they don't find their stroke in that game, it might give VT the window it needs to steal one for the good guys. And then, the sky is the limit for pulling against the Cheats.



Whoever imposed any limits on that?

[Troublemaker]

Nice call! And with VaTech pulling off the comeback win, the ACC swept the early session to go up 7-4. Just need 1 win now!

Uh...

Danger, Will Robinson!

[CameronBlue]

Whoa...that was Grant Hill airspace

[Ultrarunner]

Uh...

Danger, Will Robinson!

Trying to wrap my head around the Virginia game. tOSU is shooting 62.5 percent from the field. I'd lost money on a bet if you had offered odds that the Buckeyes would shoot above 60 percent for a half against this Cav team.

Down to 60 percent at the half. Astounding.

[devildeac]

Uh...

Danger, Will Robinson!

Whoa, not to worry, Clemson has home court advantage. But, then again, they're Clemson...

:rolleyes:

[DukieInBrasil]

clean sweep of the first 3 games for the ACC, yet all 3 of the following games has the favored ACC team down by double digits at the half, well except Clemson, who is losing at home at the half. UVA gave up almost 40 points in one half to OSU!!! Indiana is showing UNC the business!
I would expect UNC has more capacity to come back from a big deficit than UVA does, but only if UVA's defense continues to be so porous. UVA gave up 60% from the floor in the first half.

[BD80]

Whoa, not to worry, Clemson has home court advantage. But, then again, they're Clemson...

:rolleyes:

As long as Nebraska isn't wearing baby puke blue uniforms, Clemson should be OK.

I don't care if the ACC won't win the Challenge, I still won't/can't root for the heels. Won't even bother trying or pretending to root for the heels. They can go to hell.

[duketaylor]

Shocked UVa and the cheats are down at the half by DD (not devildeac;)! Actually watching Xmas Vacation during both games, gotta get in the spirit!!

Go Hoos!! Go Hoosiers!!!:D

[Wahoo2000]

Trying to wrap my head around the Virginia game. tOSU is shooting 62.5 percent from the field. I'd lost money on a bet if you had offered odds that the Buckeyes would shoot above 60 percent for a half against this Cav team.

Down to 60 percent at the half. Astounding.

We haven't given up 60% shooting in a half since 2008.

2008.

No clue what's going on here, but it's eerily reminiscent of the 2nd half vs 'Cuse in the tourney, we're playing dumb PLUS they're making hero shots. Long way to go, but unless we ramp up the mental/execution side, we could get run out of our own building. OSU's athletes are clearly superior, but we should've had a massive edge in execution/focus. So far, we're at a deficit in that dept.

[devildeac]

As long as Nebraska isn't wearing baby puke blue uniforms, Clemson should be OK.

I don't care if the ACC won't win the Challenge, I still won't/can't root for the heels. Won't even bother trying or pretending to root for the heels. They can go to hell.

I haven't watched any of that game but a few posters here reported what sartorial sins f$u was wearing last night so one can never be sure.

If the half time scores hold and my math is correct, it'll be a tie (as I predicted:o). But, I'd pay Kris Jenkins to come out of the stands/parking lot to hit a 3 at the buzzer if it'd mean a c*rolina loss.

[Troublemaker]

As long as Nebraska isn't wearing baby puke blue uniforms, Clemson should be OK.

I don't care if the ACC won't win the Challenge, I still won't/can't root for the heels. Won't even bother trying or pretending to root for the heels. They can go to hell.

Yep. Just to be clear, I would rather UNC lose than win the Challenge, too.

Hopefully both occur by the end of the night.

[devildeac]

Shocked UVa and the cheats are down at the half by DD (not devildeac;)! Actually watching Xmas Vacation during both games, gotta get in the spirit!!

Go Hoos!! Go Hoosiers!!!:D

Not to change the subject, but you've been called out on the Ymm, Beer thread...

[Wheat/"/"/"]

IU/UNC first half...

IU more aggressive, better rebounding, and shooting well and in flow. Feeding on the crowd energy, playing well.

Roy playing deep into the bench and giving the freshmen a taste of a big road game. Not handling it well. UNC shooting poorly and got sped up. Rattled at times. TO's no good.....

Don't feel like UNC has lost "contact", they are still in it.

I'd expect Roy to tighten the rotation and pressure the ball more 2nd half...feed the post.

[devildeac]

Clemson doesn't Clemson it and wins at home. So, the cheating, prevaricating, bastards can still GTH.

[DukieInBrasil]

and the ACC wins the Challenge, due to Clemson holding off the Huskers!!! Clemson rallied from down 4 at the half to squeak out a win at home!
UVA may also end up with a huge come from behind win, too!
UNCheats are still down to Indiana at the end of the game, best of all worlds!!!

ed: and UVA wins!!! ACC to go 5-1 on the final night for a 9-5 Challenge record! Added to the 6-0 record for the ACC prior to the Challenge and the ACC absolutely OWNS the B1G #numbersdontmatter 15-5!!!

[dukelifer]

and the ACC wins the Challenge, due to Clemson holding off the Huskers!!! Clemson rallied from down 4 at the half to squeak out a win at home!
UVA may also end up with a huge come from behind win, too!
UNCheats are still down to Indiana at the end of the game, best of all worlds!!!

UVA with a big win. UVA can never win it all but they are a pain to play.

[Ultrarunner]

A really nice comeback by Virginia to pull that out.

Clemson should a little toughness. Nice win for the guys.

ACC looked pretty solid tonight.

[Ultrarunner]

We haven't given up 60% shooting in a half since 2008.

2008.

No clue what's going on here, but it's eerily reminiscent of the 2nd half vs 'Cuse in the tourney, we're playing dumb PLUS they're making hero shots. Long way to go, but unless we ramp up the mental/execution side, we could get run out of our own building. OSU's athletes are clearly superior, but we should've had a massive edge in execution/focus. So far, we're at a deficit in that dept.

They pulled it out in the end, but they had to battle a lot harder than I expected. The Hoos showed a lot of guts to storm out at halftime and take it to the Buckeyes.

[rsvman]

ACC looked pretty solid tonight.

Except for the Cheats! Woot!

[BLPOG]

Cheaters lose.

When asked what he would do with his three remaining time outs, Roy replied, "I am going to give them to my players. They all deserve to be in time out for putting Roy in this position!"

[BullBlue]

What a great night. Clemson wins by 2. UVA makes a great 2nd half comeback and survives last second 3 attempt to win by 2. UNCheat down by 13 with 7 scones left. Going to call that one for IU. Perfect!

[CameronBlue]

Cheaters lose.

When asked what he would do with his three remaining time outs, Roy replied, "I am going to give them to my players. They all deserve to be in time out for putting Roy in this position!"

KFC sporkz for you! (Excuse the dried mac and cheese).

[DukieInBrasil]

So ESPN ran with a piece "Is UNC the best team in the ACC this year and not Duke?"
Well, i guess they picked the wrong day to run that piece!
Although not definitive, Duke beat MSU by 9 while UNC lost by 11. Although, UNC is missing Pinson, who will help them some, Duke is missing 3 guys who will elevate them above everybody. Is the current iteration of Duke better than the current iteration of UNC? Possibly, i'm sure it would be an entertaining game, but with both squads at full strength i don't see how UNC could hang with Duke.

[Olympic Fan]

Ends up being the perfect night -- the ACC wins five out of six games (for a 9-5 win in the Challenge) ... and the one loss belongs to the Cheaters.

Props to Virginia Tech, rallying from n early 15-point deficit to beat Michigan in Ann Arbor.

I admit that I got a little worried late. We win the first three games of the night to go up 7-4, then we open the three late games by falling behind double digits in all three.

Interesting that Clemson and Virginia fought back and survived last-second threes.

BTW: I really got upset listening to the Michigan-VPI game (I bounced around, but watched more of that game than any other). The two announcers were like the Michigan network. All they could talk about was how great Michigan was -- even as VPI was steadily climbing back into the game. Even with a few seconds left, when it looked like VPI was going to win, they were talking about how the Big Ten was going to win the Challenge again ...

[brickey]

And the heels now have a record of 9-9* in the challenge.

*Includes at least 12 games played with ineligible players.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

IU made plays, and shots. All the key ones it seemed when the game was in doubt. Solid defense and good board work. They just played better than UNC.

UNC never found any offensive flow, and didn't finish shots off the drives and at the rim, didnt shoot well, sucked at the line. They deserved to lose. Had a "one of those nights feel" after first five shots that the rim was tight and it never got better.

I liked how Roy coached the game. Went 10 deep on the bench to challenge some kids this early in the season on the road...and they didn't rise up. He'll use this game to teach and get them focused to play better.

Long season ahead.

[PackMan97]

I liked how Roy coached the game.

Long season ahead.

I like how he coached as well.

Naw, I'm thinking y'all will have a short season.

[gep]

IU made plays, and shots. All the key ones it seemed when the game was in doubt. Solid defense and good board work. They just played better than UNC.

UNC never found any offensive flow, and didn't finish shots off the drives and at the rim, didnt shoot well, sucked at the line. They deserved to lose. Had a "one of those nights feel" after first five shots that the rim was tight and it never got better.

I liked how Roy coached the game. Went 10 deep on the bench to challenge some kids this early in the season on the road...and they didn't rise up. He'll use this game to teach and get them focused to play better.

Long season ahead.

Well... credit gotta go to Indiana... as much, or more, that unc never found an flow of any kind.:cool:

[Steven43]

At least the Gordon Hayward half court bank shot didn't go in...
Is that supposed to make us feel better about '94 and '99? Well, it doesn't. And that shot by Hayward should not have counted anyway because Kyle Singler got absolutely brutalized with an illegal pick right in front of the entire officiating crew and the world.

[Steven43]

Yep. Just to be clear, I would rather UNC lose than win the Challenge, too.

Hopefully both occur by the end of the night.

The Challenge means nothing. UNC losing means everything.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Well... credit gotta go to Indiana... as much, or more, that unc never found an flow of any kind.:cool:

IU definitely sped them up at times, and played well, but UNC got good looks at a lot of shots they normally make. No excuses, finish the play.

I have to say Hicks has me puzzled. He's so talented, but he just can't seem to show an edginess that an alpha player has. He only took four shots in 27 mins. He's got to work harder to get the ball and be more aggressive than that. He plays hard, but he's always chasing the play, not dictating it as he is capable of doing.

Like everybody else but Jackson, Britt struggled to score. His quickness and aggressiveness was a problem off the dribble and on D for IU, and he had only one TO in 28 mins, but he didn't finish to score, nor did Williams and Berry. The three combined were 2-12 from 3. Not a good night for the backcourt.

Bumming...was looking forward to my first tattoo ;)

[Indoor66]

IU definitely sped them up at times, and played well, but UNC got good looks at a lot of shots they normally make. No excuses, finish the play.

I have to say Hicks has me puzzled. He's so talented, but he just can't seem to show an edginess that an alpha player has. He only took four shots in 27 mins. He's got to work harder to get the ball and be more aggressive than that. He plays hard, but he's always chasing the play, not dictating it as he is capable of doing.

Like everybody else but Jackson, Britt struggled to score. His quickness and aggressiveness was a problem off the dribble and on D for IU, and he had only one TO in 28 mins, but he didn't finish to score, nor did Williams and Berry. The three combined were 2-12 from 3. Not a good night for the backcourt.

Bumming...was looking forward to my first tattoo ;)

We a all know that un.Cheat only beats itself, Wheat.

[OldPhiKap]

Roy after the game:

“I'd like to play in front of a crowd like that in the Smith Center every night other than the frickin' Duke game."

Way to throw your own fans under the bus, Roy.

[dukelifer]

IU definitely sped them up at times, and played well, but UNC got good looks at a lot of shots they normally make. No excuses, finish the play.

I have to say Hicks has me puzzled. He's so talented, but he just can't seem to show an edginess that an alpha player has. He only took four shots in 27 mins. He's got to work harder to get the ball and be more aggressive than that. He plays hard, but he's always chasing the play, not dictating it as he is capable of doing.

Like everybody else but Jackson, Britt struggled to score. His quickness and aggressiveness was a problem off the dribble and on D for IU, and he had only one TO in 28 mins, but he didn't finish to score, nor did Williams and Berry. The three combined were 2-12 from 3. Not a good night for the backcourt.

Bumming...was looking forward to my first tattoo ;)

Teams are judged by how they handle adversity. Who will step up. UNC will win a bunch of games but can they win when behind. Right now 0 for 1.

[left_hook_lacey]

IU made plays, and shots. All the key ones it seemed when the game was in doubt. Solid defense and good board work. They just played better than UNC.

UNC never found any offensive flow, and didn't finish shots off the drives and at the rim, didnt shoot well, sucked at the line. They deserved to lose. Had a "one of those nights feel" after first five shots that the rim was tight and it never got better.

I liked how Roy coached the game. Went 10 deep on the bench to challenge some kids this early in the season on the road...and they didn't rise up. He'll use this game to teach and get them focused to play better.

Long season ahead.

Don't worry, they did.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Roy after the game:

“I'd like to play in front of a crowd like that in the Smith Center every night other than the frickin' Duke game."

Way to throw your own fans under the bus, Roy.
I don't get it. What's wrong with polite conversation, cheese plates and Vivaldi?

[OldPhiKap]

I don't get it. What's wrong with polite conversation, cheese plates and Vivaldi?

Would you be a dear chap and pass the grey poupon?

I find the nose on this Chardonnay to be a tad apricot-ty for my palate, and the oak-y overtones trample upon the otherwise buttery wafts of citrus.

[jv001]

IU made plays, and shots. All the key ones it seemed when the game was in doubt. Solid defense and good board work. They just played better than UNC.

UNC never found any offensive flow, and didn't finish shots off the drives and at the rim, didnt shoot well, sucked at the line. They deserved to lose. Had a "one of those nights feel" after first five shots that the rim was tight and it never got better.

I liked how Roy coached the game. Went 10 deep on the bench to challenge some kids this early in the season on the road...and they didn't rise up. He'll use this game to teach and get them focused to play better.

Long season ahead.

Roy likes to teach his players very slowly. That's why it takes his players longer to get to the NBA. He does less with more than any coach I know. GoDuke!

[OldPhiKap]

Last night was Roy's 1,000th game as a head coach. At least, until the vacated games are announced.

Still, I'm really hating that he lost it. I'm all broken up inside.

{Sniffle.}

[flyingdutchdevil]

So, you're telling me:

1) Duke won against a good opponent
2) UNC lost against a team who lost to a team I've never heard of (who the hell is Fort Wayne?)
3) The ACC finally won the Challenge
4) Our 3 amigos are looking healthier

What a week!!!!!

[JasonEvans]

I have to say Hicks has me puzzled. He's so talented, but he just can't seem to show an edginess that an alpha player has. He only took four shots in 27 mins. He's got to work harder to get the ball and be more aggressive than that. He plays hard, but he's always chasing the play, not dictating it as he is capable of doing.

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

http://gtpie.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Old-Mission-Cherry_7392-600x600.jpg

[flyingdutchdevil]

Bumming...was looking forward to my first tattoo ;)

Disagree. Here are some ideas for that first tattoos:

"If you can read this, you probably aren't a UNC athlete"
"Kris Jenkins is my hero"
"Nate Britt - 4x ACC Player of the Year"
"I'm a UNC fan, but I spend most of my time in a Duke website"

[flyingdutchdevil]

Would you be a dear chap and pass the grey poupon?

I find the nose on this Chardonnay to be a tad apricot-ty for my palate, and the oak-y overtones trample upon the otherwise buttery wafts of citrus.

The problem is I love wine, cheese, and intellectual conversation :(

I wish we could call the Dean Dome something other than a "Wine and Cheese Party". I love wine and cheese parties! I sometimes have those for Duke games, although the floor is often covered in crackers and I'm on my knees cleaning red wine out of the carpet...

[Troublemaker]

Ho hum, just a little 24 point, 17 rebound game for Bonzi Colson. He's going to be in the running for ACC POY if he keeps this up. Notre Dame is now 7-0... though the best team they have played is probably Northwestern. It gets tougher soon though. They've got Villanova and Purdue in mid-December.

-Jason "anyone know why BJ Anya is persona non-grata for the Pack? He played 6 minutes tonight after playing 7 in their previous game... not the senior season he envisioned, I suspect" Evans

Luke Winn with a nice article on the unorthodox but very efficient Colson (http://www.si.com/college-basketball/2016/11/30/notre-dame-fighting-irish-acc-bonzie-colson)

[CDu]

So, you're telling me:

1) Duke won against a good opponent
2) UNC lost against a team who lost to a team I've never heard of (who the hell is Fort Wayne?)
3) The ACC finally won the Challenge
4) Our 3 amigos are looking healthier

What a week!!!!!

To be fair, the team we beat isn't all that good (they've lost to every good team they've played. And the team UNC lost to beat the only team we lost to. And UNC was on the road versus our home game.

But, still feels great to win the Challenge AND have UNC lose in the process!

And we will have 3 key players returning soon that didn't play in our loss.

[Troublemaker]

Luke Winn with a nice article on the unorthodox but very efficient Colson (http://www.si.com/college-basketball/2016/11/30/notre-dame-fighting-irish-acc-bonzie-colson)

If ND stays healthy, they won't take a step back this season. That doesn't mean they'll make the Elite 8, obviously. But they'll be at least as good a team as last season, despite losing Demetrius Jackson and Zach Auguste. (And one season after losing Jerian Grant and Pat Connaughton). That's just very impressive work by Mike Brey and his players.

Of the 5 teams many (including myself) expected to take a step back this season due to the talent lost -- UNC, UVA, ND, Miami, GaTech -- I'm most confident about Miami and GaTech and pretty confident about UNC and UVA when it's all said and done. But we're going to be wrong about Notre Dame. They have great chemistry and offensive talent. Farrell's emergence makes losing Jackson irrelevant. And everyone else's improvement > the loss of Auguste.

Incidentally, that means 10 ACC teams should maintain or improve on last season. (In team quality, not necessarily placement in the ACC standings in a loaded league). When NCSU gets back Yurtseven and Maverick Rowan, Gottfried needs to build a good team. No excuse to miss the NCAA tournament with all that talent.

[CDu]

If ND stays healthy, they won't take a step back this season. That doesn't mean they'll make the Elite 8, obviously. But they'll be at least as good a team as last season, despite losing Demetrius Jackson and Zach Auguste. (And one season after losing Jerian Grant and Pat Connaughton). That's just very impressive work by Mike Brey and his players.

I am reserving judgement on how good Notre Dame will be until they actually play somebody. So far, they haven't played anyone better than (at best) a bubble team. And they haven't won convincingly against those teams.

To be clear, a neutral site win (close or not) over Northwestern is better than the alternative. But Notre Dame hasn't yet faced anyone who will really test whether or not they are as good as last year's team. Iowa and Colorado look to be pretty bad so far this year, and those are by far the second and third toughest games on Notre Dame's schedule so far.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I am reserving judgement on how good Notre Dame will be until they actually play somebody. So far, they haven't played anyone better than (at best) a bubble team. And they haven't won convincingly against those teams.

To be clear, a neutral site win (close or not) over Northwestern is better than the alternative. But Notre Dame hasn't yet faced anyone who will really test whether or not they are as good as last year's team. Iowa and Colorado look to be pretty bad so far this year, and those are by far the second and third toughest games on Notre Dame's schedule so far.

KenPom supports your argument, with ND playing the 313th hardest schedule to date.

Unlike many, I really believe in ND this year. I think they have good talent, a superb offensive coach (second best offensive coach in the ACC behind K. Where the hell did Brey learn offense from?!?!? /sarcasm alert. Please don't reply to that question), Brey always creates teams whose whole is greater than the sum of the parts. Consider me a fan. Are they 3-seed of better? Nope, but I'm willing to bet they make it to the S16.

[sagegrouse]

So, you're telling me:

1) Duke won against a good opponent
2) UNC lost against a team who lost to a team I've never heard of (who the hell is Fort Wayne?)
3) The ACC finally won the Challenge
4) Our 3 amigos are looking healthier

What a week!!!!!

It's even worse than you think. Although called IPFW, the name is literally IUPUFW.


Established in 1964, Indiana University–Purdue University Fort Wayne (IPFW) is the largest university in northeast Indiana. As Indiana's Multisystem Metropolitan University, we are uniquely positioned to serve the region as a crossroads of intellectual, social, economic, and cultural advancement and continue to expand our global reach through research, scholarship, and creative expression.

IPFW combines challenging academics with a focus on student success across more than 200 Indiana University and Purdue University degree programs, taught by nearly 350 full-time faculty. More than 12,000 students of diverse ages, races, and nationalities in our family pursue their education on our almost 700-acre campus.

[tbyers11]

2) UNC lost against a team who lost to a team I've never heard of (who the hell is Fort Wayne?)



It's even worse than you think. Although called IPFW, the name is literally IUPUFW.

The best part about Fort Wayne/IPFW/IUPUFW is that their mascot is the Mastodons

http://www.wheaton.edu/~/media/FDB592908B0641ACBE8028B7A93F97FC.ashx?&mw=540

Giant, hairy elephants are cool!

[Troublemaker]

I am reserving judgement on how good Notre Dame will be until they actually play somebody. So far, they haven't played anyone better than (at best) a bubble team. And they haven't won convincingly against those teams.

To be clear, a neutral site win (close or not) over Northwestern is better than the alternative. But Notre Dame hasn't yet faced anyone who will really test whether or not they are as good as last year's team. Iowa and Colorado look to be pretty bad so far this year, and those are by far the second and third toughest games on Notre Dame's schedule so far.

That's very fair, of course. They're going to play Villanova and Purdue soon.


It's even worse than you think. Although called IPFW, the name is literally IUPUFW.

So IU didn't even lose. It was more like an intrasquad scrimmage playing Fort Wayne.

[CDu]

That's very fair, of course. They're going to play Villanova and Purdue soon.

Yeah, if ND wins both of those, I will revise my position. If they win one (or come up just short in both), I may still revise my position. If they lose to both by more than a whisker, I'll remain in wait and see mode.

Definitely still possible that they are legit, I'm just a skeptic by nature.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

During the Carolina game last night I heard the announcers mention McRoberts - turns out Josh's little bro Zach plays for Indiana, by way of a year at Vermont.

http://iuhoosiers.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=8084&path=mbball

[Olympic Fan]

To be fair, the team we beat isn't all that good (they've lost to every good team they've played).

Disagree about Michigan State. Yes, they lost to Arizona (by two) ... to Kentucky (by 21) ... and to Baylor (by 15). Yes, those are all quality teams -- 4 (Kentucky), 10 (Baylor) and 24 (Arizona) in Kenpom's rankings (along with No. 1 Duke). FWIW, he has Michigan State at No. 30, even at 4-4.

But just before playing Duke, Michigan State beat Wichita State, which is No. 23 in Kenpom. So they haven't lost to every good team they played.

Michigan State is a very young team -- with four freshmen in the rotation. Their two best big men are hurt and haven't played yet (in fact, a MSU beat writer told me Tuesday night that Carter will probably take a medical redshirt this season ... but Schilling will likely return soon).

Izzo overscheduled -- he admitted as much. But the Spartans are getting better. After the Duke game, he claimed that his team had played its best game of the season. K mentioned the same thing in his postgame comments.

Duke beat a talented, young team that is going to get much better. Obviously, it's a game that Duke should have won, but don't underrate the value of the win. Michigan State is -- at the moment -- a very solid opponent. That win will look good on our resume in March.

PS I would be great to see them again in postseason -- when both teams are at full strength.

[DukeFanSince1990]

After the IU win last night:
6917

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

http://gtpie.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Old-Mission-Cherry_7392-600x600.jpg

It's still a little early to order that pie just yet...

IU played well, and deserved the win.

That said,Roy coached that IU game for March.
He played to win, no doubt, but he wanted to challenge his team. That stretch in the first half where IU extended the lead to 17 mostly came at the expense of 3 freshmen and a Soph just returning from injury. They didn't handle it well. Roy threw them to the fire and didn't bail them out with a time out. It was a teachable moment. And why when March does come around, Roy typically has freshmen that are ready to contribute at a high level.

He tightened the rotation in the second half and almost got back in it, but credit IU for playing tough. The hole they dug was too deep.

Roy challenged the fans at the Dean Dome the same way. He wants the fans to provide the same energy the IU fans did the next big game in the Dome.

[Indoor66]

It's still a little early to order that pie just yet...

IU played well, and deserved the win.

That said,Roy coached that IU game for March.
He played to win, no doubt, but he wanted to challenge his team. That stretch in the first half where IU extended the lead to 17 mostly came at the expense of 3 freshmen and a Soph just returning from injury. They didn't handle it well. Roy threw them to the fire and didn't bail them out with a time out. It was a teachable moment. And why when March does come around, Roy typically has freshmen that are ready to contribute at a high level.

He tightened the rotation in the second half and almost got back in it, but credit IU for playing tough. The hole they dug was too deep.

Roy challenged the fans at the Dean Dome the same way. He wants the fans to provide the same energy the IU fans did the next big game in the Dome.

You have got to be kidding.😁😎

[BD80]

... UNC lost against a team who lost to a team I've never heard of (who the hell is Fort Wayne?) ...

It's a satellite school in the IU-Purdue system. Named after the citadel erected about an hour north of Indianapolis to celebrate The Duke.

[gep]

It's still a little early to order that pie just yet...

IU played well, and deserved the win.

That said,Roy coached that IU game for March.
He played to win, no doubt, but he wanted to challenge his team. That stretch in the first half where IU extended the lead to 17 mostly came at the expense of 3 freshmen and a Soph just returning from injury. They didn't handle it well. Roy threw them to the fire and didn't bail them out with a time out. It was a teachable moment. And why when March does come around, Roy typically has freshmen that are ready to contribute at a high level.

He tightened the rotation in the second half and almost got back in it, but credit IU for playing tough. The hole they dug was too deep.

Roy challenged the fans at the Dean Dome the same way. He wants the fans to provide the same energy the IU fans did the next big game in the Dome.


WOW... real spin-doctoring :cool:

[OldPhiKap]

It's still a little early to order that pie just yet...

IU played well, and deserved the win.

That said,Roy coached that IU game for March.
He played to win, no doubt, but he wanted to challenge his team. That stretch in the first half where IU extended the lead to 17 mostly came at the expense of 3 freshmen and a Soph just returning from injury. They didn't handle it well. Roy threw them to the fire and didn't bail them out with a time out. It was a teachable moment. And why when March does come around, Roy typically has freshmen that are ready to contribute at a high level.

He tightened the rotation in the second half and almost got back in it, but credit IU for playing tough. The hole they dug was too deep.

Roy challenged the fans at the Dean Dome the same way. He wants the fans to provide the same energy the IU fans did the next big game in the Dome.

Well, it was a teachable moment in-game. You see something wrong; you call a time-out to correct it. Great coaches don't wait until film review the next day to address it; they get a TO and fix it then and there. Letting them make the same mistakes again and again while the other team builds up a lead is not coaching. It's cluelessness.

I agree with Roy's peers -- he is the most overrated coach in the NCAA.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

I waded over to IC out of curiosity. Just finished a full body, radiation exposure-style scrub down. But I gotta say there is a precious thread over there titled "Wine and Cheese Crowd." God bless you, Sam Cassell.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Well, it was a teachable moment in-game. You see something wrong; you call a time-out to correct it. Great coaches don't wait until film review the next day to address it; they get a TO and fix it then and there. Letting them make the same mistakes again and again while the other team builds up a lead is not coaching. It's cluelessness.

I agree with Roy's peers -- he is the most overrated coach in the NCAA.


Who has more ACC regular season championships since Roy returned to UNC? Roy or coach K?
Who has more ACCT titles?
Who has more Sweet 16 appearances?
Who has more Elite 8 appearances?
Who has more Final Four appearances?
Who has more championship game appearances?
Who has more National Championships?

Yep, Roy must be overrated...

[OldPhiKap]

Who has more ACC regular season championships since Roy returned to UNC? Roy or coach K?
Who has more ACCT titles?
Who has more Sweet 16 appearances?
Who has more Elite 8 appearances?
Who has more Final Four appearances?
Who has more championship game appearances?
Who has more National Championships?

Yep, Roy must be overrated...

Is this before the wins get vacated, or afterwards?

[CDu]

Who has more ACC regular season championships since Roy returned to UNC? Roy or coach K?
Who has more ACCT titles?
Who has more Sweet 16 appearances?
Who has more Elite 8 appearances?
Who has more Final Four appearances?
Who has more championship game appearances?
Who has more National Championships?

Yep, Roy must be overrated...

You might want to remove some of those questions from your list if you are trying to say that Williams is as good or better than Coach K. Coach K has more ACC titles and more Sweet-16 appearances since Williams returned to UNC, and both have two national titles in that time. Bringing Williams to only 3 behind Coach K in all-time titles and... well... still a lot behind Coach K in Final Fours, Elite-8s, etc.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Is this before the wins get vacated, or afterwards?

You actually think UNC fans like wheat are going to listen to what the NCAA says? If the NCAA vacates UNC wins, it won't register with UNC fans. It'll still be 372 wins.

[OldPhiKap]

You actually think UNC fans like wheat are going to listen to what the NCAA says? If the NCAA vacates UNC wins, it won't register with UNC fans. It'll still be 372 wins.

Y'know how Rashad McCants went from almost failing out one semester to the Dean's list the next?

Coaching.


(Wheat's defending his program, I have no problem with him. We disagree on Roy however)

[jv001]

Who has more ACC regular season championships since Roy returned to UNC? Roy or coach K?
Who has more ACCT titles?
Who has more Sweet 16 appearances?
Who has more Elite 8 appearances?
Who has more Final Four appearances?
Who has more championship game appearances?
Who has more National Championships?

Yep, Roy must be overrated...

Just imagine how many wins Coach K would have if he could have paperless/non-attending classes for his players. The players would have all the time in the world to work on their game, but I forgot, that's The Carolina Way. GoDuke!

[rasputin]

Just imagine how many wins Coach K would have if he could have paperless/non-attending classes for his players. The players would have all the time in the world to work on their game, but I forgot, that's The Carolina Way. GoDuke!

I'll tell you exactly how many additional W's Coach K would have if he could have paperless/non-attending classes for his players: Zero. Even if he "could" engage in the same filth that the Cheaters have for decades, he wouldn't.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

You might want to remove some of those questions from your list if you are trying to say that Williams is as good or better than Coach K. Coach K has more ACC titles and more Sweet-16 appearances since Williams returned to UNC, and both have two national titles in that time. Bringing Williams to only 3 behind Coach K in all-time titles and... well... still a lot behind Coach K in Final Fours, Elite-8s, etc.

I have great respect for coach K. Just making the point when you put their records side by side comparing the past 15 years or so that Roy Williams has been heads up with coach K in the ACC, that he also deserves the same respect for his coaching.

Some of the posters around here are like politicians, they think that if you repeat something often enough, people will start to believe it. Every now and again when I see the Roy can't coach crowd surface, I have to point out the facts, his record is comparable to coach K's.

[Olympic Fan]

To be accurate, the claim that Roy is the most overrated coach in America is not something that originated on this board. It was the result of a survey by CBS Sports of college coaches:

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/19753693/critical-coaches-who-is-the-most-overrated-coach-in-the-country

And the poll was done in 2012 -- before the Wainstein Report exposed the phony class scheme that has propped up the UNC program during Roy's tenure.

[OldPhiKap]

To be accurate, the claim that Roy is the most overrated coach in America is not something that originated on this board. It was the result of a survey by CBS Sports of college coaches:

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/19753693/critical-coaches-who-is-the-most-overrated-coach-in-the-country

And the poll was done in 2012 -- before the Wainstein Report exposed the phony class scheme that has propped up the UNC program during Roy's tenure.

Exactly, and I think my post to which Wheat responded referenced my agreement with Roy's peers.

Roy got 23% of the vote, that's pretty damning. Almost a quarter of his peers ranked him the most overrated.

And as Oly says, that's before we found out all the cheating that went on throughout UNC athletics. Excuse me, UNC's women's basketball team only.

[ChillinDuke]

I have great respect for coach K. Just making the point when you put their records side by side comparing the past 15 years or so that Roy Williams has been heads up with coach K in the ACC, that he also deserves the same respect for his coaching.

Some of the posters around here are like politicians, they think that if you repeat something often enough, people will start to believe it. Every now and again when I see the Roy can't coach crowd surface, I have to point out the facts, his record is comparable to coach K's.

I know others around here can be less than kind to you, but I respect your chutzpah for sticking around here and at least trying (at times) to have a civil discussion. As fruitless an exercise as that often turns out to be.

I do agree that Roy is a good coach. He has to be. If stats and results are to mean something, Roy has them. In spades. You simply can't discount the facts that sit there amongst his accomplishments.

That said, he is an incredibly baffling case study in coaching. I have to imagine that a not insignificant part of the fanbase must find him maddening at times. He has a style that is definitely not cookie-cutter - as evidenced in the way he speaks, the way he coaches in-game, and the way he leads. You must at least agree that an onlooker could reasonably feel this way toward Roy?

I liken the dynamic to my feelings toward Carmelo Anthony. I'm a Knicks fan, historically. Carmelo is unquestionably a great NBA player. But I find him to be so off-putting on the basketball court. His 1-on-1 style. His inability to get others involved. His defense. I just can't root for the Knicks as strongly as I'd like to with Carmelo at the helm. That doesn't mean he's not a great player. I just can't stand him. And this is my team we're talking about. For me, it's a stinky situation.

I think similar things are felt toward Roy. He's got the accolades. And his players mostly love him. But he is so bizarre so seemingly often both on and off the court that he must turn off a chunk of the UNC faithful.

But my oh my is he incredibly entertaining to Duke fans. Like why the heck are you playing Luke Maye while you're down big against IU on the road?! I know what you're going to say in response. But your view aside, any remotely reasonable person would find Luke Maye's playing time in that context to be an asinine decision. It's just so fantastic on so many levels.

- Chillin

[JasonEvans]

Like why the heck are you playing Luke Maye while you're down big against IU on the road?! I know what you're going to say in response. But your view aside, any remotely reasonable person would find Luke Maye's playing time in that context to be an asinine decision. It's just so fantastic on so many levels.

Coach K has guys waaaay more talented than Maye who often cannot get off the bench even when there is no bench in games where Duke has a comfortable lead.

I'd say K and Roy are at polar opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to the size of their rotations and bench usage. It makes for an interesting juxtaposition of programs/teams.

-Jason "props to Chillin for voicing some support for Wheat. He comes here and takes our abuse with calm and intelligence. We should value him a bit more..." Evans

P.S. - Plus, he is going to have to buy me 2 delicious pies... so I love him right now!

[OldPhiKap]

I know others around here can be less than kind to you, but I respect your chutzpah for sticking around here and at least trying (at times) to have a civil discussion. As fruitless an exercise as that often turns out to be.

I do agree that Roy is a good coach. He has to be. If stats and results are to mean something, Roy has them. In spades. You simply can't discount the facts that sit there amongst his accomplishments.

That said, he is an incredibly baffling case study in coaching. I have to imagine that a not insignificant part of the fanbase must find him maddening at times. He has a style that is definitely not cookie-cutter - as evidenced in the way he speaks, the way he coaches in-game, and the way he leads. You must at least agree that an onlooker could reasonably feel this way toward Roy?

I liken the dynamic to my feelings toward Carmelo Anthony. I'm a Knicks fan, historically. Carmelo is unquestionably a great NBA player. But I find him to be so off-putting on the basketball court. His 1-on-1 style. His inability to get others involved. His defense. I just can't root for the Knicks as strongly as I'd like to with Carmelo at the helm. That doesn't mean he's not a great player. I just can't stand him. And this is my team we're talking about. For me, it's a stinky situation.

I think similar things are felt toward Roy. He's got the accolades. And his players mostly love him. But he is so bizarre so seemingly often both on and off the court that he must turn off a chunk of the UNC faithful.

But my oh my is he incredibly entertaining to Duke fans. Like why the heck are you playing Luke Maye while you're down big against IU on the road?! I know what you're going to say in response. But your view aside, any remotely reasonable person would find Luke Maye's playing time in that context to be an asinine decision. It's just so fantastic on so many levels.

- Chillin

I think this is well-said, on both Roy and kudos to Wheat.

I find Roy's time out hoarding to be absolutely baffling, especially in a game on the road when you can hear/feel the crowd becoming a factor. I don't know any other coach that does that.

My take on Roy is that he is very good at preparing game plans and in running a system. He is an enigmatic in-game coach though. He kind of reminds me of Bobby Cremins, who had great talent and good plans but seemed to sit for stretches of the game (especially the last minutes of a game) just watching like a bystander or a fan.

[ipatent]

I'd say that Roy Williams is somewhere around the bottom of the ten best college coaches of all time, which is pretty darn good. If he would have continued the trajectory he was on before the Barnes signing, he'd be in the top five.

[NSDukeFan]

I'd say that Roy Williams might have been somewhere around the bottom of the ten best college coaches of all time, which is pretty darn good. If he would have continued the trajectory he was on before the Barnes signing, and he didn't continue to run a program that had one of, if not the, greatest NCAA scandals of all-time he'd be in the top five.

Fixed it for you.

[ipatent]

Fixed it for you.

He just went from "graduation presents" at Kansas to graduation: not present at UNC. :)

[jv001]

I'll tell you exactly how many additional W's Coach K would have if he could have paperless/non-attending classes for his players: Zero. Even if he "could" engage in the same filth that the Cheaters have for decades, he wouldn't.

Yeh, you're correct. It's hard to imagine and you are correct in that he wouldn't engage in the Cheat like fraud. But old roy, that's another matter. Like Newt says; Dean knew and Roy knew. GoDuke!

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Coach K has guys waaaay more talented than Maye who often cannot get off the bench even when there is no bench in games where Duke has a comfortable lead.

I'd say K and Roy are at polar opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to the size of their rotations and bench usage. It makes for an interesting juxtaposition of programs/teams.
!

Roy and coach K have definitely got different styles and philosophy's. Roy always plays deep into the bench early season, even in big games, before tightening up for conference games and beyond.

Roy could have gone to a 7 man rotation bringing only Britt and Bradley off the bench, and still lost to IU at home playing as well as they did.

That 7man rotation had been playing very well, but even if he had tightened that rotation up and they had won, would it have made the team better?

He didn't want to lose, but he made them better, even in that loss, by giving his freshmen and Luke the taste of a big game atmosphere early in the season while he still has plenty of practice time to work on what he sees as their shortcomings.

And more important, they now have experienced first hand the pressure of a high intensity game, and their failure has likely got their attention. Now, when Roy tells them in practice they have to play better, play harder, smarter, etc...they'll understand why, and they are going to be more prepared for that intensity next time.

He basically breaks them down in that situation, or they break themselves down, and he coaches to build them back up. It's how he coaches early season and it's been very successful.

Maye had been playing very well before his injury, but he struggled to regain that in his first game back. Robinson is going to be very good, but he was a little shell shocked as was Woods by the speed, intensity and crowd.

They will get better, and that IU game will make them better.

[Olympic Fan]

Surprising game tonight in Pittsburgh.

Three days after strong performance in a win at Maryland, Pitt loses at home to inter-city rival Duquesne.

Not a good loss for the Panthers

Eight games Saturday -- four are gimmies. but four are games the ACC could lose:

Wake at Richmond
Georgia Tech at Tennessee
Dartmouth at Boston College
and the best game of the day:
West Virginia at Virginia

[Olympic Fan]

Really solid win by Wake over a Richmond team that has given them fits in recent years.

Also, BC rolls against Dartmouth.

On the other hand, Georgia Tech is getting decimated at Tennessee.

Virginia is off to a good start against West Virginia.

[tbyers11]

Surprising game tonight in Pittsburgh.

Three days after strong performance in a win at Maryland, Pitt loses at home to inter-city rival Duquesne.

Not a good loss for the Panthers

Eight games Saturday -- four are gimmies. but four are games the ACC could lose:

Wake at Richmond
Georgia Tech at Tennessee
Dartmouth at Boston College
and the best game of the day:
West Virginia at Virginia

Pitt played without one of their best players, Jamal Artis. Suspended one game for conduct unbecoming.
Still a bad loss, though.

[tbyers11]

There is no joy in Hooville. West Virginia beats UVa 66-57

West Virginia made all the plays down the stretch. Virginia's D looked particularly unimposing over the last 3 minutes.

[DukieInBrasil]

complete and utter collapse by UVA in the last minute. Went from a tie game at 1minute left to WVU being up 9 in about 30 seconds.
Looks like coaches have found a weakness in UVA's defensive armor, or maybe it's just that as they play better teams UVA doesn't look as good.

[Wahoo2000]

There is no joy in Hooville. West Virginia beats UVa 66-57

West Virginia made all the plays down the stretch. Virginia's D looked particularly unimposing over the last 3 minutes.

We're riding the struggle-bus right now. This makes 2 straight we've been unable to maintain continuous defensive intensity after great full-40-minute efforts in the first 6 games. I think when we go through a drought offensively, the guys are letting it affect their focus and intensity on D. If that trend keeps up, we'll be more like top 25ish than top 10ish.

Without Nichols this year, our only chance at contending is to never waver on D, even for a second. We've had stretches like this in past seasons and overcome it, so I'm not giving up, but there's waaaay less experienced talent than we've had before.

[Troublemaker]

Good game. UVA's starting to miss Gill and Brogdon on offense. Gill was great against WVU last season, and Brogdon helped break WVU's press more easily.

[Troublemaker]

We're riding the struggle-bus right now. This makes 2 straight we've been unable to maintain continuous defensive intensity after great full-40-minute efforts in the first 6 games. I think when we go through a drought offensively, the guys are letting it affect their focus and intensity on D. If that trend keeps up, we'll be more like top 25ish than top 10ish.

Without Nichols this year, our only chance at contending is to never waver on D, even for a second. We've had stretches like this in past seasons and overcome it, so I'm not giving up, but there's waaaay less experienced talent than we've had before.

Incidentally, how did you guys get Huggins to agree to play on a neutral court last season with a return game in Cville? Is there a third game coming next season at WVU?

[Wahoo2000]

Incidentally, how did you guys get Huggins to agree to play on a neutral court last season with a return game in Cville? Is there a third game coming next season at WVU?

Odd that this hadn't even occurred to me. I just googled and then looked on thesabre, but didn't see anything regarding the series. I think last year's game was actually part of a "preseason" event, so it won't shock me if we owe them a return game at some point in the next couple seasons.

[jhmoss1812]

Incidentally, how did you guys get Huggins to agree to play on a neutral court last season with a return game in Cville? Is there a third game coming next season at WVU?

We play at WVU next year. Bennett and Huggins decided to do a home-and-home after playing in MSG last year. Also, yeah we're struggling right now. We're a top 25 team. Not a top 10 team.

[Troublemaker]

Odd that this hadn't even occurred to me. I just googled and then looked on thesabre, but didn't see anything regarding the series. I think last year's game was actually part of a "preseason" event, so it won't shock me if we owe them a return game at some point in the next couple seasons.


We play at WVU next year. Bennett and Huggins decided to do a home-and-home after playing in MSG last year. Also, yeah we're struggling right now. We're a top 25 team. Not a top 10 team.

Thanks.

I also wouldn't get discouraged. Both OSU and WVU are good teams who were hungry for revenge after you beat them last season. UNC got a taste of what that's like at IU this week.